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The Exosome Question with David Panter of RadiantXO · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Today's a very special episode because we're going to be diving deep into the world of exosomes.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you guys come to us a lot of times to learn more about the regenerative side of skin care.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think exosomes and extracellular vesicles are definitely at the forefront right now.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of buzz is being created in the space.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited to kind of dive in with it.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Without further ado, please welcome David Panter, who is the CEO and founder of Radiant Excel.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, David.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to chat with you today.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, good afternoon and thank you so much.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be on your show.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really want to dive in, you know, because exosomes are an incredibly interesting space right now.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of consumers have so many questions around them.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to start with, you know, understanding exosomes, understanding the science.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the fundamentals because I think even amongst the professionals out there, there's a lot of confusion.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could kind of get us started.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, with the marketization of what's going on in the world of stem cells and exosomes, I could I understand that.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually had to wade through that ourselves.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because of my background being in the medical industry since 2014 and owning pharmacies and owning laboratories.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's through those relationships that I was able to be introduced to this from a manufacturing because it's a 13-year research project that was brought into the medical field by a SEC medical university.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's got a lot of science behind it.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we were on the tip of the spear, and now it's being commercialized so much.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I do understand those concerns and the confusion that people are experiencing, right?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it is definitely a confusing space because there's a lot of terms being thrown around.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times people don't know how to put everything into context, you know, in terms of like what matters and what do I need to understand?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times what gets lost is this idea of like, you know, what are they actually doing?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are exosomes doing?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So an exosome is for starters, our exosomes are sole source from a single umbilical cord.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're human, a human umbilical cord that is stringently tested.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: They are actually stem cells where the exosomes are extracted from those.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the exosomes are actually tiny messengers that carry important information.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a what is called a peracrine effect when the exosome touches a cell that is damaged in some way, whether it's from age or some other type of damage, there is a paracrine effect, which is a communication, and it's an information, a fusion between a healthy exosome giving direction to a damaged cell on what it needs to do to perform and how it needs to function effectively.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And applied topically the radiant exo serum with the exosomes, these signals are signaling to your skin cell.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these are the same exosomes that we are using in medical applications too, but we brought those over into the skincare line to promote repair, regeneration, and encourage cells to function the way that they did when you were younger, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've lost that elasticity.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So exosomes possess anti-inflammatory properties.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: They can potentially support the rejuvenation, anti-aging, damaged skin, deliver signals to those targeted cells that they touch.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have 5 billion exosomes per bottle.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they're so small that they will penetrate the dermis and go into the damaged cell areas for that regeneration.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they're replenishing the areas that we've lost over time and enhance the skin's natural repair process, reducing inflammation, supporting overall skin health.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the exosomes in our exosomes, they come from Warden's jelly, mesochymal stem cells, and there are over 179 protein genes.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: 52 of those are directly related to skin repair, collagen, fibroblast.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's over 700 growth factors in it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bioactive molecule that has cytokines, all kinds of signaling proteins in it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things about our exosomes are they're pure.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they're sourced directly from the cell.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're never frozen, they're never lyophilized, and they're not a copy of a copy.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So their purity, their sterility, their strength comes first generation from the actual source.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's good to know.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in terms of like what is the actual, what is the size of the vesicles?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the vesicles will range anywhere from 20 nanometers to 130 nanometers.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Very small.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're very small.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, that's important, right, for our listeners because as a lot of you know, I mean, this is where I think biotech takes over with skincare because we're able to now get to deeper layers of the skin and we're actually able to signal cells that are going to produce things like collagen for us.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and for me, it really interests me on the regenerative side of skincare that we are now getting into that space, you know, where we're not guessing as much anymore about what's actually happening and are our cells actually responding to the ingredients we're putting on top.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very fascinating.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that explanation.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was awesome.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to talk about the current landscape.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're seeing exomes sourced from platelets, adipose tissue, plants, even other animals.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: From a scientific standpoint, where are the limitations of those sources?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when you're talking about the most connective and regenerative tissue, the umbilical cord is the source, right?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because of the birthing tissue.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: The placenta and the amniotic fluid are being used in other areas.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So placenta is being used right now in wound care for grafts, but below that, most of the market only has availability to blood platelets and adipose tissue, which adipose is reconstituted fat.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the issues with those are you do not know the health of the donors that are supplying that to some of the manufacturers that are using that just to market exosomes because we are on the tip of the spear and out in front of the industry.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But once they lyophilize a product, freeze dry it, turn it into a powder, and constitute it, you're destroying a lot of the proteins and lipids and you're getting some residual, but you're not getting a pure strength, which is one of the differences.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the mission that we're on is really to educate people on that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't know the age of the donor, you don't know what kind of decline they're in, where that was sourced from.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: They may have gone through some sterility testing to make sure that what is put out there is sterile, but my exosomes are 50 years old.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the source of those does matter.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just call it an exosome and put it on the on the market.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that ours are truly birth tissue that carry the highest level of regeneration and activity is paramount.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to talk about how human signaling molecules are very specific.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's, I think, the big thing that I took away from what you just said, because when we talk about plants, we're not supposed to respond to plant signals.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're humans, you know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in a totally different category.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I think it's really important for consumers to get behind this concept that if we're talking about true regenerative skincare, we have to keep that in mind.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it does matter what the source is, what the animal is.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not saying that other animal sources couldn't work, but it's not going to be the same as human-to-human signaling.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And also what you said, David, about age and like variability in the donor and you know, all of that needs to be taken into account.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, circling back, was that a part of the realization that you had when you really pushed to create Radiant XL?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, we wanted to bring a product that was a difference maker into the lives and impact people with that and give them the opportunity to get an education and to see what they're really putting on their skin to make a difference.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that there are a lot of products out there that, you know, they're red stag or they're a cantaloupe, but they just say the word exosome just for marketing.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we did not want to be a marketing, we wanted to be an impact.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so the exosomes really, I mean, there's only about 12 products, and our product is in a scar cream base, and then it's really the exosomes that are driving it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're not souping it up with vitamins, we're not souping it up with peptides, and really the peptides or the vitamins are doing all the work.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're letting the science really push the performance and the enhancement.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And people are seeing that, whether it's wrinkles, pigmentation, whatever, they're seeing the results at a cellular level, which is really what we wanted to be behind that and stand behind it from a science perspective and a factual-based perspective versus just candy coating something.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think behind the scenes, a lot of these are white label formulas, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then put whatever you want inside.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering if that's also happening in the space where they're like just buying a formula and then claiming, yeah, we have exosomes in here, this is what's going to do the job.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really important point that you brought up is that you guys don't do that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't put other ingredients in there.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're letting the exosomes actually do the work.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, absolutely.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, there are masters of marketers out there and they market to make a dollar.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we we chose not to do that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to stand behind the science and to make that available.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so the exosomes that we're using are being used in several different capacities in the medical field.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And those are in cardiac, in wound care, in peripheral neuropathy.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been shown to grow bone, dental pulp, and it is in cognitive repair.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So these are the same type of exosomes that we brought into the topical space.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have any preservatives in ours.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the manufacturers, when you lyophalize, you have to preserve them to a degree because when you reconstitute them, that's why people are getting infections on their faces.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're inferior products, but it's superior marketing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the message and getting out to people on what is really there so that you're getting the best for your use and you make the determination on that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mentioned that radiant XO sources exosomes exclusively from human umbilical cord mesochymal stem cells, and they're obtained from a single healthy C-section delivery.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why umbilical cord MSC specifically?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Wharton's jelly is the driving force, the Wharton's jelly mesochymal stem cell.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is the source, and so it's a proprietary method that extracts the exosome from it, that gives it the highest level of regeneration.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is because of that and the fact that it is single sourced.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we know the quality.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's manufactured under strict ISO 5 laboratory guidelines that are dictated by the FDA.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so the manufacturing process, the sterility of it, the strength of it, um, it matters because those are what are being used in some of the clinical trials, you know, scientifically and medically.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that equates over into skin care as well.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there are some clinical trials using our exosomes for wound care and having phenomenal results, which if you're applying it topically or if you're applying it in injection into a wound, I mean, you're going to have specific outcomes with that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so the highest products available to determine those types of outcomes is we just didn't feel like we could stand behind anything less.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been around some other things that have been presented, but they just did not measure up to what the exosomes that we're using.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's some of the highest quality and science behind it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to ask though, how do you respond to concerns around, you know, ethics when people hear the word umbilical cord?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: How do you respond to that?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for starters, it's a healthy C-section child.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they're ethically sourced, but the human body has a way of healing itself.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's using a part of the human body that has already gone through the process, but it's like organ transplants, there's use for that so that people can get the highest quality and the human body will heal itself.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gone through sourcing and the fact that we use a single source, we know exactly who it's coming from, and we know the health of the individual.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many control factors involved in that, so that the patient outcome, the safety of it, I mean, it's very highly regulated.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: The FDA monitors it heavily, heavily.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that we would represent in that is of the highest quality.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's one of the big areas that I actually want to dive into is because, you know, whenever we talk about anything human derived, or especially in the biotech space, especially with, you know, any kind of EV product, exosomes, there's a lot of fear-mongering that's going on online.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand the skepticism online.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's people that really just genuinely want to understand.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a that's a good thing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's how science progresses.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But now, how do we ensure that there are no viral or pathogenic components being transferred in the product itself since the tissue is human derived?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And also connected to that, I've heard, you know, a lot of fear-mongering around the idea that exosomes could potentially lead to cancer.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are your thoughts around all of these claims?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And where do you think that fear really comes from?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can tell you that our exosomes are classified by the FDA because they're going through clinicals as a 351A biologic.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: It does have a drug master file with the FDA.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: It is manufactured in a FDA-regulated lab.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the CGMP, which stands for good manufacturing process by the FDA.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So all of those kinds of criteria are parameters for which that's manufactured.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's being used in the fear-mongering to your question.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: These are messengers that are signalers.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so they do not carry a nucleus.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cancer requires an uncontrolled cell division.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That mechanism does not exist.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wharton's jelly is one of the most studied neonatal tissues in medicine, and it shows stability and has no history of tumor formation in any real data.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the pathway that we had to go with the 351A master file exists for purity, strength, and sterility, and products of cancer do not survive in that process.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think also causes a lot of confusion, even amongst a lot of the professionals, is the nomenclature.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times I've been saying EVs, and because there's a lot of conflict around what can and should be called an exosome, I know MSIV has their guidelines that they've published.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you do to ensure that the product you're creating actually fits the definition of a true exosome?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, these are not stem cells.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not carrying DNA.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: These are exosomes.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're signaling.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so they come from stem cells, but they are not stem cells.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: They have no nucleus, no chromosome, no replication.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're a transient particle and they degrade.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in the body has exosomes in it, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even tumors release exosomes.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm saying is there is no biological mechanism for an acellular vesicle to initiate cancer, and there's no clinical data showing that exosomes create that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: The criteria that we manufacture these and taking those from the stem cell for the extraction and the harvesting for it, the size, the pathway, the integrity, the sterility, the strength, these are guidelines that are set in the manufacturing process by the FDA under the CGMP guidelines that we have to meet that.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're doing the manufacturer, we have to submit those criteria in order to get the notification that we get from the FDA to meet those criteria because they're being used in medical clinical trials.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just not something we say.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is highly regulated from the standpoint that we have to meet those criteria to even be considered in those medical channels.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's good to know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's good that you were able to clear the air on that.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's where consumers don't get to see.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really important question.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to add to that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have to meet criteria by doing third-party virological testing that meet certain growth factors.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have to meet the number, you know, we have to be able to back up what we say that is submitted for medical review.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Cytokines, the proteins, the integrities, all the hormones, the regulatory nucleic acids, the mRNA, the m iRNA, all the metabolic signaling, stuff like that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's very stringent testing on that that articulates over to what the science is.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're using it in an application here for topical and skincare, but obviously there's a higher level on what we're currently doing on that in the medical space.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It just articulates over into the skincare arena as well.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think regardless of whether it's topical or not, it's important that this is pointed out and that brands come forward and are transparent.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where consumers get lost, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is this idea of like, well, we want to know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: We want to know like what is required and like what can you actually test in a lab prior to coming to market.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really good to know.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Two, um a lot of people just say exosomes on their label.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: We we actually quantify there's five billion per bottle.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Our Radian XO is actually manufactured in an FDA cosmetic lab.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we take great pride in the fact that there would be five billion where a lot of them just say exosomes.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And to the point earlier, you don't know if that's cantaloupe or you don't know if it's a red stag or something else.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't do that just to market that to commercialize it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we see this every time a new ingredient comes out.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like people just love taking the word and just, I don't know, like just going with it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so the people who want to do it right, who are doing it right, they get lumped up in the other stuff, you know, like in the in the fluff, I should say.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really, really important to differentiate on this level.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And for all of my listeners, I always tell you guys, we gotta do our homework, you know what I mean?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we got to listen to the brands who are willing to step up and talk about this, like the nitty-gritty of the science, because that's what's gonna help us figure out like, is it worth it or not?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you want to be able to trust what is going on, but I think society has proven that everybody's doing it for the almighty buck.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, I want to make my share of that, but I've got to believe in what we're representing out there, and it's not just make a dollar and not just to commercialize it, it but it's truly to make an impact on people.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think regenerative skincare, that's the most exciting part about it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you can make an impact.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: It just has to be done in a way that's going to be true to the science, you know, which is everything you and I have been discussing so far.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the bottom line.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to dive deeper and talk a little bit about something that's I think more practical for a lot of listeners when it comes to how to use exosomes, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot of like misinformation out there about like when should we layer them?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: How should we use them?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's the right time to use them?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you put them in the day?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use them at night?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to kind of speak on this a little bit.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there something we should know as consumers about the use of exosome products?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when we first started, it was just wash your face at night because you're getting rest and relaxation, whatever cleanser you wanted to use, and then apply the exosomes, whether it's one or two pumps.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: People started putting it on their faces, and then all of a sudden it started going on to their necks.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: The great thing about it is wherever the exosomes touch, they had that regenerative application.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they're reducing inflammation, they're regenerating the cells at the cell level.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's products out there that you put it on their face and it's tightening the face instantly.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we all know that that's a chemical reaction.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's not truly regeneration at the cellular level.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be used once a day, it can be used in the morning and at night.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: The more that you use it, obviously the different and the better your your results are going to be.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I would recommend washing your face and then your oars are open.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So then you put the application of the exosomes on.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we we like it in the evenings because there's no other products.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing it in the morning, you put the application on.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when I would say wait for about 10 minutes to let the absorption of those exosomes, and then you could apply whatever over the top of that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have had several people tell us that there has been application with sun-damaged skin.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so they were putting it on before they would go out, and because the hydration of the cells and the exosomes that they didn't get as much sunburn because the skin was in a healthier state.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've had people that have had surgeries that have really put it on because it's in a scar cream base, they've put it on pre-surgical to get the area that they were going to have a MOS surgery on, for example, into the best health that they could get it in before that helped the rehabilitation process and post-surgery because the skin was in a better state going into it.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all kinds of applications, but just daily use would just be cleanse and then apply it however you're going to apply it either morning or evening.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to back up a little bit because we had talked about this briefly earlier, where you brought up lieophyllization.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: For everyone listening, liaphylization is basically freeze drying.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's talk about this because I know a lot of companies out there are utilizing this methodology for preservation.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, what is the real problem here?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the main thing consumers need to understand about this method of preservation and what that means for their product efficacy?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the exosomes, because they are extracted from the stem cell, are a very delicate lipid.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And because we have a proprietary manner.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: With how we suspended them in a topical setting, anytime that you lyophilize or freeze-dry them and turn them into a powder, you destroy pretty much all of the protein lipids that are in the exosome.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you rehydrate it, you're getting just a residual of what that real strength was.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing this process of lyophilization because, again, you don't know who the donor was and you don't know what the health of that donor was.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So to sterilize that product and then they put preservatives in it because you lyophilize it, then it really destroys the integrity of that and degrades that hugely.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you did a comparison on an exosome that has not been freeze-dried versus a product, and it doesn't matter if it's been suspended back and they've rehydrated, you can wade out through a lot of the products and say, is your product lyophilized?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it'll say it on the bottle because they have to say that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of the FDA and Cosmetic Act that they have to report those kinds of things.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the purity, the strength of those products that have not been lyophilized, which ours hasn't been, ours is pure, will be significantly more than a product that has been lyophilized.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense because freeze-drying something and turning it into a powder cannot make any sense when you have like moving lipid membranes.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me as a scientist, when I first heard about liophilization, I mean, for all stars, when you talk about lipid bilayers and lipid membranes, you guys the ability of those membranes to move and those lipids to move in that bilayer is a huge part of how membranes work and the integrity of what they're able to do.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So like that's a huge, like immediate red flag.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like lifelization destroys those membranes.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you destroy the membrane, you no longer have the outer part of this vesicle that's supposed to then go dock and communicate with cells using that membrane.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's all so counterintuitive.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: When you think about the science, I don't know how we've gotten so far with the marketing.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's because that is such a basic understanding on the science level.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they're adding peptides and they're adding vitamins to different products because it's really not the exosome that's pushing it, it's really other ingredients, hyaluronic acids and different structure.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about what does your preservation process, the radiant exos preservation process, protect when it comes to the integrity of the vesicles?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my medical director question, but it's a very valid question.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're suspended in saline in the medical side, but we're suspended in glycine on the topical side.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's suspended in basically an alcohol base, but we've figured out a way to suspend it from that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it has the degradation is three years.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so they will stay bioactive for 36 months, suspended in the glycurn, um, which even after three years, they'll have about a six percent degradation, and so they'll still remain bioactive 94% through expiration.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And our most of our expirations are three years, and then we'll manufacture.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Want to dive into these actual numbers.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're delivering, you said, five billion exosomes per bottle, and then you do the third-party analysis showing a lot of the other details.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can you walk us through that again in terms of like what's inside of them?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You had mentioned like protein coding genes and growth factors and stuff.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So not only are we transparent, but we feel like we have a responsibility to really tell people the truth on what is in there.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that given my medical background in some of the areas that we've worked in, you know, the fact that we can say five billion per bottle and you can do third-party testing on it, absolutely.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: We we have medical data sheets that show when we do a batch, how much is there?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so when it's mixed at the laboratory, and then when it transcends over to the FDA cosmetic laboratory for the production lines, we ensure that there are five billion exosomes per bottle where a lot of people will just put it on the bottle.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It also goes back to the lyophilization.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: When you lyophalize, you cannot say that there is five billion exosomes because that's pre-manufacturing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Once you lyophalize it and you do an after test, then there might be a fraction, maybe a hundred thousand exosomes, where ours is pre-and post-production, that there are five billion exosomes per bottle, which equate over to uh skincare and the regeneration and all of the functionality that the product does.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we can verify that there are over 179 protein coding genes in that five billion, and there's over 700 growth factors that all equate medically over to the skin care of an individual.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Very fascinating.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to talk about a little bit more about this whole exosome-rich marketing that's going around.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important to understand exactly what the word rich means.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's kind of meaningless, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Without context, you fact that the size gives the ability of the penetration of the exosomes to truly coat the damaged cells and to have that paracrone effect where the communication happens.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so the damaged cells are truly coated with all of these exosomes that attach to that damaged cell, and then they start signaling.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it is critical that that absorption happens and that that small stature of the exosomes will penetrate deep into the skin.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just a superficial deal.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're micro needling, actually, under FDA and Cosmetic Act, you're not supposed to have any preservatives in products with that because you're actually altering the skin of an individual.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we meet some of those qualifications of that as well from a compliance because our product is classified as a biologic and there's no preservatives in it, people can be very assured that the safety of that will deliver what it's supposed to.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Really something I've also wondered about because the conversation happens a lot with this whole topical side, right?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Where people are like, Well, we don't know what's really helping those vesicles get into the deeper layers, what's actually, you know, doing the work.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we talked about other ingredients, but even when we talked about the vesicles themselves, like what's the difference between them at home versus in the clinic?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very helpful, what you just explained, you know, trying to clarify that for consumers.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing the medical application of it.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I saw the way to get into the skincare arena to have an impact there with the great things that we saw going on medically.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so the exosomes that we're delivering, you know, medically, they're either being delivered through IV or intramuscular and or nebulized.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that we have the 351 master file on the medical side of it equated to me over as a real easy segue into the science for the topical as well.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really the exosomes that are doing what they do naturally.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the fact that they're doing it in a topical type instead of systemically.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: What's really interesting to me is that, you know, you guys are really positioning the brand as a single-step luxury serum.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not part of like a 12-step protocol, which I think is incredibly important because right now the way I see exosome skincare headed is kind of like it becomes part of a protocol of other things, you know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something I would love for you to speak on is like, why did you choose the simplicity component in terms of like how your product should be used and like how we should be interacting with it as consumers?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the 12-step process is really to be able to market more types of products.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so the beauty of what these and the strength and quality of the exosomes, they do all of the heavy lifting on their own.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the results, it's not like you have to go, okay, well, you use our product for six to 12 weeks and you get this.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are seeing results within 48 hours because the regeneration is starting at the cellular level.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had a doctor's wife that told me this was Hocus Pocus.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't believe it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And she put it on half of her face.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the next day she's like, okay, I'm I'm seeing this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And she progressed another day on half of her face, and it became so apparent.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't want to get out of whack here because the science was actually performing the way it was supposed to do that.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very important to us, but I can't take credit for it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's truly the science and the exosomes that are doing that.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's good to hear though that you are kind of sticking to the simplicity component.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've said it before earlier when we're talking, but I think it's needed at this point in this space, especially as biotech is emerging in skincare, we need to understand where that fits in.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think for a long time, consumers, and this is just my opinion, but like for a long time, consumers have been drawn into this idea of like, oh, we need our 12 steps.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: We need this ingredient and that ingredient and blah, blah, blah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that has to shift because when we talk about regenerative skincare, exosomes, EVs, they contain a lot of things that do a lot of different signaling all at the same time.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like we don't need to focus on what are all the other ingredients in my like 12-step routine.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a like mind shift that needs to happen on the consumer side before we even start exploring products like this.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we don't think that way, I think we're gonna be very lost.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like what to rightfully expect from our product?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very interesting.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree more with you.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so the fact that the scientists have generated this, and there's a lot of people coming into the space, but there's a lot of artificial things as well.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and this this is a US product.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not coming in from China, it's not coming in from Korea.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: The quality of it and the fact that it has the stamp of approval from the regulatory that's manufacturing it, you don't see it as much in the industry for sure.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I I mean, I can definitely attest to that.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a lot of conversations around exosomes, and it's very difficult to get answers.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting time.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: But David, I just want to thank you so much.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such a great conversation.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And just as a closing question, where do you see Radiant Exo headed?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what are your plans for the future?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are there new products coming out?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or where are you guys headed with your technology?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the exosome in and of themselves do all the work.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we have some products that are coming out because wherever those exosomes touch, they regenerate the tissues, right?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so eyelash, eyebrow, there is some hair restoration opportunities, crepe neck, anywhere that the exosomes touch.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on the quality of the exosome for the performance and the functionality of them.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So those are areas that we're going into.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Scar cream.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're working on some things right now with burn patients because our product is in the scar arena.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some future going that direction.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, we're just happy to have the opportunity to talk on your show and to be as transparent and we'll answer any questions that we have that we can help people in that regard.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if all of you listening want to learn more about the brand, make sure to go to radiantxo.com.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: We will be linking everything in our show notes.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: But David, thank you so much.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a wonderful conversation.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely learned a lot.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: The beginning of the regenerative skincare category, in my opinion.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very important for brands to kind of take the lead and do things in a way that you know consumers can rely on.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate that.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Ecke, for the opportunity and appreciate your audience listening.