Latest / Pod Therapy / #373: Values in Therapy, Impactful Therapists, PTSD

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#373: Values in Therapy, Impactful Therapists, PTSD · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: They have encouraging you to do that thing on your list.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're doing.
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: You know what, Man, you are a good fucking coach.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: You're playing three dimensional chess with me and I don't.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: See this ship. Most chess is three dimensional.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, okay is it?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah? I think just the reality of the real
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay. Uh.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: This episode has made possible by our day Flord himself,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Jim's Fasha, and our therap partners Dirty B and Pickett
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: from Fabulous Las Vegas, Novada. This is pop therapy, real people,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: real problems, and real therapists. You can spit your questions
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: anonymously at podtherapy dot net or email us at PO
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Therapy guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: the Churn. And that's Jim, that's Whitney. I'm Nick. It's
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: time for some their Colonel Jim. If you I will
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: never say that, if you please salute.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I have already started shopping at the Kentucky Colonel's Store.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: There's an online store exclusive Only Kentucky colonels can can
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: shop at that story.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: They'll call KFC.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: No, KFC is not it KFC doesn't even have the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: word colonel in it. It's Kentucky Fried Chicken. And my
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: colleague and predecessor, Colonel Harlan Sanders, who was only a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: colonel in the same way that I am a colonel,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: started the company.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: So you know, we just hit him. We're equals. Ca.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we agreed. We started this a long time ago,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: do it. Hey, everybody, welcome, Excited to have you with us.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: We've got some great questions on the show today. Don't
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: forget about the extra hangout at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: You can hear all about my childhood newdist resort that
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I went to in the summer of Florida beautiful and uh,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot, learned a lot about life, learned
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: a lot about aquatic sports, and so very about my
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: body about Rep Tiles so true coming of age story.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Did you ever talk about the time you did sex
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: sid in school.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And they were like, please, you have to leave.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Passed out.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I did not pass out, asshole.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I threw up. Oh yeah, I'm sorry you threw up.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: During the girl part, when they're explaining the they had,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: like the overhead, you remember those overheads. They had the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: over protector and they put up the diagram and I
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: just blew.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Chu wha wait wait, wait wait, I've heard this story before.
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  Speaker 4: I thought that you threw up watching a video of
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: like giving birth.
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  Speaker 2: No, it was the overhead.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: You threw up because of a diagram.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Man, they were like using big words and it was
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: really scary.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: I was just like fuck, I just blew up you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Summer of eighth grade, the day I became a man.
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  Speaker 5: Christian suppression, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: And in my defense, I was sure that this was
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  Speaker 2: a satanic attack.
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  Speaker 3: You know that's true.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I was trying to keep away.
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  Speaker 5: This makes sense now, right, Yeah, context it does well.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: You know the southern Southern Christian.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Ohn Baptist man. I was just keeping the devil away,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: dirty dirty girls. And I had eaten like powdered sugar
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: brownies for present surin idiot.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: I think that was part of it.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I just, oh god it, I'll never forget that.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: My timer just went off to call Jim an idiot.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: He just sets it periodically. Re always seems to work anyway.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Patron dot com slash therapy, come join the hangout and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: support mental health. We've got some great questions today, and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: we're leading off the order with values in therapy. I
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: like this one. Dear pub therapists and life coach Jacob,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: thank you for taking my letter. I absolutely love this podcast.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I'm reaching out to seek your insight regarding an area
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  Speaker 2: I've been grappling with in my recent therapy experiences, namely
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: the emphasis on values. I understand that many therapeutic models,
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  Speaker 2: such as acceptance and commitment therapy, use values rich language
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  Speaker 2: to help clients navigate mental illness and stress. However, I
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  Speaker 2: find myself struggling with this approach for a couple of reasons. First,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: overwhelming number of values. Whenever I engage in values exercises,
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  Speaker 2: I end up identifying an overwhelming number of values that
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  Speaker 2: matter to me, which leaves me feeling paralyzed. For example,
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  Speaker 2: in the act model, I'm asked to list values that
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  Speaker 2: guide me in areas like work or love, playing or health.
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  Speaker 2: Let's consider love, I find myself valuing over a dozen
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  Speaker 2: principles such as compassion, generosity, independence, forgiveness, and self compassion.
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  Speaker 2: This often leads to a sense of conflict at the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: end of a long day. For instance, when a friend
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: needs to vent but I'm exhausted, I feel torn. I
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  Speaker 2: value compassion, listening, validating, caring, but also self compassion, resting,
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  Speaker 2: or exercising. When I'm depleted, no matter which value I prioritize,
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  Speaker 2: I'm left feeling frustrated because it seems like I'm always
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  Speaker 2: sacrificing one important value for another, leaving me feeling as
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  Speaker 2: though I can't truly succeed second values or distorted beliefs.
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  Speaker 2: I'm also concerned that some of my so called values
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  Speaker 2: might actually be distorted beliefs in disguise in the realm
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  Speaker 2: of work. For instance, I value excellence. However, I recognize
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  Speaker 2: from previous therapy and self reflection that I have an
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  Speaker 2: unrelenting standards schema a fancy way of saying I struggle
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: with perfectionism. When I let excellence guide my work choices,
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  Speaker 2: as act suggests for increased life satisfaction, I find myself
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  Speaker 2: slipping into perfectionistic tendencies that feed into my anxiety and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: existential depression. With these challenges in mind, I'd be incredibly
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: grateful for your perspective on the far following. Is it
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  Speaker 2: possible to have too many values? If so, how can
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  Speaker 2: one effectively navigate this? Could some of my values, such
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  Speaker 2: as excellence in the context of work, be counterproductive or
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  Speaker 2: even harmful. How might I address this without abandoning the
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  Speaker 2: value altogether. I deeply value your expertise and would appreciate
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  Speaker 2: any guidance or resources you might recommend. Thank you so
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  Speaker 2: much for considering my questions. I look forward to hearing
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  Speaker 2: your thoughts. Thank you, Anonymous.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: Actually, uh, Morgan Spurlock, the documentarian, covered this extensively in
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: his documentary Supersized Me.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: He talked about value meals throughout that entire movie.
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  Speaker 3: That was almost the whole point.
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  Speaker 1: And so I think, just.
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  Speaker 4: Watch that movie, yeah, and learn about value meals and
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  Speaker 4: you'll be in good shape.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks Anonymous, take care, good luck, and uh, you know,
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  Speaker 2: sponsor the show value Meals.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: There's too many.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Options that supersizing a thing. Still, can you still superci.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: No, they stopped that after that. I think I think
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: they did. They got rid of it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Wendy's had the Biggie size. It was like you could Yeah,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I don't remember burg King had one.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: I believe it was King size.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Oh fuck ah, damn it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Of course it was.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: This is dumb. I'm just upset of myself. I walked
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  Speaker 2: into it.
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  Speaker 5: This is an interesting concept. It reminds me of uh.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: Peter and I just had this discussion the other day
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: because he's in a like group training with other cohorts
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: of his and they were asked to pick out, uh,
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  Speaker 5: I guess words from a list of like forty different words,
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  Speaker 5: and what sticks out as your highest values and people.
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  Speaker 5: The The two highest ones that were chosen by most
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  Speaker 5: people in his group were family and the other one.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Was uh looking cool and a leather jacket.
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: No, oh my gosh, I'm blinking out. But they were
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  Speaker 5: like conflict with one another. I'm totally linking on the
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: murder right now.
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  Speaker 1: Murdering families, yes, very murdering.
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  Speaker 5: But it was like, oh, it was like ethics, like,
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  Speaker 5: oh I I highly value ethics and my family autonomy
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  Speaker 5: or yeah. But it was like, when it comes down
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  Speaker 5: to it, if it's up to your like, if you
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  Speaker 5: have to choose between this like very ethical decision in
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  Speaker 5: your family, what are you going to choose? You're gonna
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  Speaker 5: choose your family, and you're gonna like screw ethics or
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  Speaker 5: like an example of this might be a jim if
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  Speaker 5: one of your children ended up murdering somebody again, yeah,
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  Speaker 5: obviously again I don't know what you did the first time.
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  Speaker 2: Second time, Clark County School District has a you know,
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  Speaker 2: everybody gets on you. I mean we are fifty first education, right.
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  Speaker 5: That's fair or like or just right or yeah, like
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  Speaker 5: we could stick with that like human life, but say
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  Speaker 5: we were in an extreme circumstance, You're going to choose
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  Speaker 5: your family over human life. And so it's like at
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  Speaker 5: some point those values cross and you're like, oh, you
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  Speaker 5: have to kind of choose when they can't both coexist
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  Speaker 5: at all times. And this kind of like touches on
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  Speaker 5: that same idea, where like, how do we decide what
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  Speaker 5: our values are? How do we kind of structure them?
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  Speaker 5: And that's kind of what the writer's asking, Like, in
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  Speaker 5: my opinion, there are going to be some that are
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  Speaker 5: more important than others at different times. It depends on
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  Speaker 5: the situation, it depends on what's going on in your life.
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  Speaker 5: Like all of those things come into play when you're thinking, Okay,
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  Speaker 5: this is a value. I'm using that quotes like this
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  Speaker 5: is a high value of mine, but how do we
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  Speaker 5: pay that out?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually going to say something similar because
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  Speaker 3: like I used to do this exercise all the time
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  Speaker 3: in groups where we would I would have them write
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  Speaker 3: out their values, right, and then I would have them
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  Speaker 3: talk about their behaviors over the last year. Because ultimately,
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  Speaker 3: it's like, if I want to know what someone values,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to ask.
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  Speaker 2: Them to watch them.
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  Speaker 3: That is so true, Yeah, because and think about like
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  Speaker 3: what limited resources we have available to us. Our two
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  Speaker 3: most limited resources are time and money. If I want
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  Speaker 3: to know what someone values, I don't ask them, I
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  Speaker 3: watch how do they spend their time and how do
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  Speaker 3: they spend their money? Because because those are finite resources,
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  Speaker 3: that means that we have to pick and choose. So
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: where do I devote my time? Where do I devote
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  Speaker 3: my money? That shows what I value In the same way,
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  Speaker 3: It's like a lot of like you know we're talking
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: about to be both, Yes, we talked about we talk
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: about ethics in this clinical supervision course that I teach,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: and one of the things that we talk about is like,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: when it comes to an ethical dilemma, Ethical dilemmas are
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: not choices between a good decision and a bad decision, right,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: because that's a dilemma, not a dilemma.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like should I hit this pedestrian with my
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  Speaker 2: car or come to a full and complete.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: It's like, it's not Alevel. Now should I hit this
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  Speaker 4: pedestrian with my car? Or should I hit this pedestrian car?
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: It's the car the trolley trolley. Have you seen the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: meme of this the trolley car. There's a bunch of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: people tied to the thing and there's like one person
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: tied to the other one and it's Thomas the train
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: and he's like, you know, like gonna hit him, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: like all the other trains like dude.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: What the fuck's going on with Thomas?
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: He's like what should I do?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: And they're like neither, you don't have to do tied
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: those people the tracks.
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  Speaker 3: But like, yeah, it's always it's always like ethical dilemmas
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  Speaker 3: are choices between two ethical decisions that are in conflict. Right,
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  Speaker 3: Values are kind of the same way. It's like you
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  Speaker 3: have to to really understand what you truly value, you
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  Speaker 3: put them in conflicts and you have to choose.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, writer, there's a lot here that I want
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  Speaker 2: to tell. But first, I love these exercises. I really
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: like values exercises and I do them a lot for
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of different challenges in life, direction, navigation with people,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I like that. You also mentioned ACT, a
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: form of therapy with a lot of people use. So
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I want to clarify a couple of things. First, you're
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: doing everything right, and there's no problem with the values
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: having a juxtaposition situation. We expect that. In fact, that's
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: part of the exercise is to allow these things to unfold.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It's not to figure out what's your highest truth. It's
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to get into the complex nuances of life. One of
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the distortions that people often have that we catch in
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: CBT cognitive behavioral therapy is something called black and white thinking, right, absolutism.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: It's always this or it's always that. But what values
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: analysis helps suss out for most patients is starting to
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  Speaker 2: realize that it's very rarely black and white. There's all
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: sorts of gradients here, and you've got to get into
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the complexity of your story. And so whenever you're sitting
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: down and you're saying, hey, I value excellence at work,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: but I struggle with perfectionism. And when I look at
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: my history, I understand that that value in some ways
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: is not organic to me. In some ways, the history
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: of me having this need this value comes from some
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: of my trauma, comes from some of my past, some
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of my childhood. My friend, you're doing therapy. That's excellent therapy.
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  Speaker 2: And if you say, well, then what's the correct answer. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, Anonymous. That's for you
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and I to discover together and for you to wrestle
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: with the complexity of I have a desire to do
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: excellent work.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: It suits me.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I sit well with that, and yet I realize there's
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a tipping point where I become self abusive and I
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: feel like I cannot rest or be satisfied, and that
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: is unhealthy for me.
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  Speaker 3: Excellent.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I want you to get in to the nuanced weeds
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of what percentage of this value is good for you
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and what percentage of this value is an excessive expression
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: of that value. So you're doing everything right by staring
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: at that. I want you to get into the weeds
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: of that. It's okay for these values to have these
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: kinds of interplays and you find yourself getting stuck between
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: them and asking, hey, can these things actually coexist at
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: the same time, And you mentioned having an overwhelming number
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: of them. That's also a very honest thing too. Whenever
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I do this exercise of people, I kind of do
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: what a Pete did. I give people a list of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: thirty and I have them pick ten, and then I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: have them rank them. And the ranking thing is not
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to get to their final answer and figure out who
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: they really are whatever bullshit. It's to cause them to
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: do what Anonymous is doing, to have to sit there
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and compare all these things that matter and ask, well,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: how would you prioritize these? And I want them to
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: sit there and grind their teeth over it and through
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: simulations and ask who they are and where they got
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: their ideas, because it really, for me is just it
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: opens up therapeutic insight. Oh sure, that's all I.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: Want thought about that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: That's what I want to.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Look at this and go, why do you value excellence? Well,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I just I tried. What does that look like in
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: your life? Where does that get ahead of you? Where
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: does that sometimes go the opposite way? Because every good
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: thing can also go too far? Right, any any too
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: much of a medicine is a poison, So tell me
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: more So it's okay in my opinion writer, that you
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: have so many different values and that you find them conflicting,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and that any one of them can be taken to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: an extreme where in some ways you look at it
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, this is kind of a toxic idea.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: That's that's kind of imprinted upon me. And now I
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: look at it as a value, where I think there
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: can be some confusion is act and some of these
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: other forms of therapy, they they sometimes speak about values
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: as if they are self evident ways to live your life.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And that's a good start, like I do like and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I do this in my therapy work too, where I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: want my patients to use their values as their compass
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: to me. That's the markings on the map, especially when
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: we're just kind of drifting through life and we're like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: what direction should I go and what matters to me? Okay,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: let's start with what matters with you, right like, don't
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: live your father's best life, don't live what America tells
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: you to live. Let's figure out what is authentically valuable
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: to you, what is a satisfying life? Those are your values,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Then I want to wrestle with that, because just because
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: these are your values doesn't mean they need to guide
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: all your actions. It just means that they subjectively matter
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to you today. And also keeping in mind that whatever
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you write down on that paper are anonymous. That is
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: a snapshot in time. I mean, I tell people these
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: are all written in pencil. If you had to take
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: in my values at twenty years old, those were different
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: than thirty, they'll be different at forty. These should be
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: evolving over time. So we also don't want to pretend
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that these are written in concrete. This is etched in stone,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and these are your north stars that from the path
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: from which you must never deviate. You are always in
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: conversation with these things. Life is always causing you to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: adjust your mphasis on these things, your priority on these things.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So what I want for you, writer is to identify
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: these things and then to do the therapeutic work that
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: you've already started, which is to unravel them and ask
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: why why does that have meaning to me? Why does
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that matter to me? Is this value my inner voice?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Or is this somebody else's voice from my past that's
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: told me I'm supposed to value this. I did this
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: exercise with the patient once and they listed religion as
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the highest thing, and I said, oh, wow, I didn't
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: know you're a really religious guy. You had kind of
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: mentioned it passively, and Okay, now I know that this
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: is like your highest thing.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: And he kind of like, well, I throw a back me.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Well, and I go, well, is it your highest thing?
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: And he goes.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Jim and he grew up in the same kind of
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: culture you and I did, like Southern bat kind of thing,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and so does I feel like it's supposed to be
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm supposed to put that first?
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Growing up they say what's the highest thing.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: God first say about me? It's like that's the whole process.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Right, And so he was looking at it and he's like,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I think I'm supposed to put that, and I was like,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: let's talk about that. And now we're doing it. We're
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: doing therapy right just from this one exercise, and we're
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: analyzing it, and we're asking, can you give yourself permission
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to set this next to you, but not necessarily in
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the driver's seat. What would it look like to set
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that aside? Now that we're putting that in the passenger seat?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: What else is exciting to you? What else matters to you?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And it was very liberating for him to say, okay,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and it's not a bad thing to put this aside
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: for a second, not at all. Let's also think about
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: what authentically matters to you. If religion was over here
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: for a second, and we can come back to it. It
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: still gets to come in the car. But like what else?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That was huge? So values work, Writer is a huge area.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: There's so much to explore. Nothing about this has been
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: done wrong so far, at least what I'm hearing in
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the lettering. Yeah, so.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: What about excellence? Could some of my values such as
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: excellence in the context of work be counterproductive or even harmful?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, any value that you have could
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: potentially be harmful. But again that but that doesn't necessarily
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: mean that you need to abandon it or that you
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: should let go of it. I think what it means
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: is you just need to be mindful of that you
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: have too much of a good thing, exactly, and you
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: need to be you're just kind of aware of like, oh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: this is you know, my value for perfectionism can be
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: a benefit in nine out of ten situations, but you
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: do need to be able to identify that tenth when
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: it's not.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is all the therapy that I think
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Writer is doing right. But yeah, don't let your values
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: become this unquestioned north star. I'll give you a conversation
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. So for me, I've always
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: valued hard work and it was a belief system that
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: if I work hard, I will accomplis ish great things
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: or I can't accomplish what I want if I just
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: work for it. Sure, but there are things that it
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter how fucking hard you work for it.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: It's going to come back. Some things.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: It's going to be golf. Well, I wasn't going to bring.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: It in such a good's a fitting thing.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Which, by the way, we had our first tournament of
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: the season on Saturday.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Oh no, I came.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I came in third, but I walked out the door
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: with like four hundred and fifty bucks and skins, so
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: I did pretty good anyway, the.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: Shirts versus skins that, yeah, I hope you walked out
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: with four different shirts.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: And I will always be skinned.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I can't stop we bro.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: You're from Ioway.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: You should definitely not let your skin be exposed to
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: It's a really bad idea for it, definitely, No.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: But like so in those situations, yeah, like this belief
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: system of like hard work produces results a great belief
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: system nine out of ten times, right, But in those
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: certain situations where you work really hard and because of
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: certain circumstances outside of your control, you don't accomplish what
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: you want to accomplish. Then now it's like the reverse. Yeah,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: it's like, well I didn't work hard enough, and now
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I start to beat myself up over it. And you know, again,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: like in nine times out of ten, that was a
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: great situation, right, but we have to realize that it's
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: not going to work every time, and you have to
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: understand that, Okay, this is that exception. I love that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. And you know, one of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the things that I think ACT is trying to do
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: writer is this idea that Carl Rogers, person centered therapy founder,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: talked a lot about. He talked about congruence, and he said,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times people become they struggle
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: in their mental health because the way they're living is
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: not congruent with who they authentically are, right, And this
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: goes back to your point. Are cognitive distortions exactly? Cognitive
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: dissonance too, or cognitive dissonance? Yeah, and so like you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you say you value your family, but you're addiction is
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: causing you to hurt your family and you're in distress, right,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: and then you get stuck in that lost space. Carl
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Rogers is very interested in helping you get congruent with
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: your value so that you can have that piece, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: so Act I think is trying to borrow that that
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: directional kind of use of values and helping people get
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: in alignment with them. There's value to that. But again, writer,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I want you to hold them loosely. To me, values
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: are something you're in conversation with. They're exploratory. They reveal
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: so much about your history, and like, who gave you
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: those ideas? Why did you pick religion as the number
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: one thing? Why'd you feel like you had to? You know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: why is that an integrity thing for you versus what
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: you authentically believe? And you know, how do these things
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: orient you to what success and health looks like for you?
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And then how are we allowed to challenge and think
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: through our values and readjust their priority over time and
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: pick them whenever they're in juxtaposition. So to me, this
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: is great therapeutic work. It's all grist for the mill.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: But they're not designed to be the goal posts. I
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: don't see it that way.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the pressure doesn't have to be on achieving
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: those things. And now you're a failure if you don't, right,
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: because that kind of is just human nature. I mean
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: you talk about, yeah, that incongruence with who we are.
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: I think that was something natistic with the kind of
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Christian religious you know, mindset. But that was something that
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: was always confusing to me. It's like, oh, I'm a
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: pastor at a church, but i've you know, had an
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: affair with somebody like right, and you're thinking, oh, well,
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: they're Christians, so they that means to me, since they
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: are Christian, they should not do X, Y or Z,
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: because we're assuming their values by that. But the reality
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: is we're humans and yes we have values and yes
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: we're trying to live up to them most of the time.
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: But if we don't, what is what's going on? Then
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: how do we look?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: In turn on which you just brought up a really
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: good point, right, Because and this is where I think
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: act in this in this very strict interpreted way that
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I think I'm getting from the writer is probably not
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the spirit of what it wants and what most therapists
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: are going to utilize it for. Right, Because if you
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: tell me, well, I'm Southern Baptist, Jim, my values are
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to be holy holiness. Jim like, okay, well, what's going
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: on in your life?
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I have holes in him?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have honest attraction to a coworker and I've
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: been married for so long. This is not holy. So
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: then you're telling yourself, Okay, so I'm not holy. Something's
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: wrong with me. I'm incongruent with my values. Right. But
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: what we want to say to that person is, hey,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want to encourage you to act out. I
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: don't want you to encourage you, know, do anything. I'm
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: not gonna I don't want you to say that that
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: attraction is so legitimate, right, But at the same time,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I want to create some space for you to reconsider
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: this value of holiness and how you're interpreting that and
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: how you're imposing that on yourself. Not to like poke
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: holes in your religion or anything like that, but to.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Like create a dies he already poketolls in him, right, because.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I already poked hold. But like I want us to say, hey,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: it's let's analyze why you have an attraction to this coworker,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and that attraction all by itself isn't incongruent with who
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: you really are, right, So, like my therapeutic goal is
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: not to achieve gruance by like eliminating your attraction for
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: your coworker. Right, So, in that old school way of
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: like what is congruence and how does that apply here?
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think that we have to use values in
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Writer.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You know that we're saying, Okay, you have to get
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: in alignment with these values, and then you'll have an
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: epiphany and you'll arrive and you'll achieve this therapeutic enlightenment
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and now you'll feel satisfied in life. If ACT is
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: preaching that, I think that that can quickly get into
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: this weird, strict kind of mentality. I want us to
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: be in dialogue.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: With our values.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: It's a good point.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Well, it's like thirty eight Special said, hold on loosely,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: don't let go. If you cling too tightly, you're gonna
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: losel You're gonna lose control.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: I've never heard of that saying damn, is.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: There anything that thirty eight Special can't teach us?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: As now there really isn't.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: We're gonna end it there, writer, good luck with this.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: One more song from thirty eight Special? Uh, hold on loosely?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: There's that one. That one.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow oh.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: And there's also hold on loosely.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Okay and loosely hold on loosely hang on oh oh
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: oh okay. Writer, If you go into our patreon, by
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: the way, we have the values exercise that I use
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: in sessions, and you're welcome to go through the archives
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and find that that was posted a while back. I
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: think I do a walk through of it, and so
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: you're welcome to listen to that and do the exercise
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: for yourself, and you can kind of hear me explain
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit more intricately how I use the idea
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: of values in therapy, and maybe you'll find that to
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: be a little bit more accessible for you. But don't
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: make it black and white. That would be a cognitive distortion,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and that's not the application the way I want you
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: to apply these. We're gonna take a quick break and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: when we come back, we're talking about measuring positive impact.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Dejon Voodoo, that's my favorite name.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: That they have on the list.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior Minutes,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Kala Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathway, Dan Martin,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Liz hey Yo, and Andrew lang Mead, and if you
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: like to sponsor the show, become a therap producer a
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Patreon dot com slash therapy. Al Right, folks, there are
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: no multiple choice on this one.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Oh damn.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So this is this is stealing is allowed? Okay, We're
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: going to go in order, and then if you steal
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: in order, yes, okay, steal in order. Okay.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: So you're saying if you swing and miss, it passes
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to the next person.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Correct, all right, all right, okay, and then if none
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: of you get it, I will give myself the point
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: because I can't play otherwise. Okay, all right, Jim, what
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: the hell, let's just we'll just go.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Right along, Jim for the listener, I am sitting to
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Nick's right. Correct, I sit at the counterclockwise. Uh.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: The Nebutonians a famous by the way, this is called
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: lost Civilizations and their locations.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, well this you wrote this?
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: It? Oh, famous for their rock cut city of Petra
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: thrived in which modern day country? If you were going
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: to visit Petra, where would you be going?
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I'll save your time?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: No, Uh, I'm going to go with.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Israel. No wait, did you say country? Modern day modern country.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Is the home of ancient Petra.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: So Jordan's behind. But is that the country? I think
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: he's a basketball players, yeah, Jordan, correct, I was not
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: c or is that the country permanent?
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Whitney your question. The Lost City of Troy,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: made famous by Homer's Iliad, is believed to have had
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: have been located in which modern country?
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: Italy?
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: No, dang it, yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Jacob, the Greeks. The Greeks made the Trojan horse. Yeah,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: beware of Greeks bearing gifts? Is the Trojan horse thing?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: That wouldn't have been Greece? I wouldn't think, uh.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Ah, Germany.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: No, I think it's an island. I think it's an
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: island that they had to row out to at least
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: in the Brad Pitt movie that's what happened.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Or a sea they had to cross. It's fine. I'm
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: going to go with islands.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So I think it's islands. I'm going to pick an
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: island in the Mediterranean Hawaii.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: I won Yes, you know what, I'll give you two
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: points if you can just name an island in the Mediterranean.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, give me that, Yeah, give me minkase.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I mean yes, but No, okay, I think just got
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: two points. You forget.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I went on a cruise when I was a kid
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and we went to Italy and the Mediterranean.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I know their names, but you forget, Nick.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: You the correct answer is Turkey. So you Menistan.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I believe it's two to one to one.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Jim with the lead is a different country? Okay? What
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: is a country, Jacob? The ancient Kingdom of Oxhom, known
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: for its massive stone oblis and early adoption of Christianity,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: was centered in which modern day country.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: That would be the United Arab Emirates.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: It is not. I would have been so good if
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: it was our men.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: No, what was the name of the was the first
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: they're gonna ask? What was the name of the country.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: The ancient Kingdom of Oxom a K s u M,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: known for its massive stone obelisks and early adoption of Christianity.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing, obelisks. It's throwing you out. I think
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: none of us are taking the bait on that, because
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: you're when you think obelisk, you're thinking sand desert podcasts.
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: I think of Italy again, I know at some point
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: and they are Christian I mean, no, damn it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: I'll give you all one more guests, because I know
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: it's not going to matter. It's this is a country
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: in Africa. Oh, Italy, Italy. Final, I want give Southern Italy,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: South Africa, no Ethiopia. It is.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Early Christians for the wind.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: Christians points.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: If you can name one other country in Africa other
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: than Egypt.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Or South and we've all laughed at Italy because that's
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: not correct. I'm stating a statement, right, I'm saying it's that.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I don't have to respond, so there's no reason to
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: say it because the right thing. Yeah, thank you South Africa.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know where.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Where was the Nile?
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: The other country I said? That doesn't count.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I can't say that Egypt. I can't use Egypt.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: No, because I said other than Egypt.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Well, it didn't do me a load of good, did it?
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: North Africa? West Africa? I was being silly West Africa.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Obviously Morocco. Can I say that one?
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: You can? Yes? No? Is it an Asia? Yay?
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I remember Morocco mole. It's got job everybody, especially Colonel
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: jim Ah just representing the colonel here. Measuring positive impact. Hi, guys,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: new listener, That's what I call it. And I'm starting
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: from the beginning on good base. It's right, Yeah, it's
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: positive impact. Hi, guys on the floor, measure inches off
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: theop there it is there, it is Hi guys, new listener,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: and I'm starting from the beginning on episode eleven. Right now,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: let me start that. Don't ever do that. Let me
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: start with some reinforcement on y'all, because I feel you
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: need to be reminded that this podcast is ten for ten.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: It provides a great insight on how mental health professionals
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: think while also educating listeners on the psychology behind the rationale.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: You make the podcast relatable and entertaining with your humor,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: games and differing perspectives.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. On episode eleven it was yeah, I know, just.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: Stop to stop there, it'll be.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Because we'll take the win.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Now we educate you on thirty eight special songs.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, a long time ago.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Now we're doing deja vudoo.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: That's right now, we're doing this bit. Also, if you
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: say nice things in a letter, it feels so good.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: We would sure love to read it.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: In a review. Now on to the question.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I've been an individual and couple's therapy now for about
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: eight months, and I took your advice on waiting three
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: sessions to determine compatibility, develop a therapeutic relationship, and see
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: if the therapist has positive impact. My first therapist I
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: felt wasn't a great match, as we mostly talked on
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: a casual level about unimportant subjects. So I switched to
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: seeing a different therapist for one on one, which happened
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: to be my marriage counselor. I was against the idea
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: of doing that because I didn't want to create any
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: bias and wanted a different perspective and therapy, but they
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: were more convenient than a different one. My question is,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: how do you determine if a therapist is the right
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: fit for you you because I'm on the fence about
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: it with mine. They are well experienced as a professional,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: and I value their opinion, but there are some criticisms
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: that I do have that I feel could interfere. What
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: does a good therapeutic relationship look like? How do you
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: determine if they're making a positive impact? Thanks Anonymous, It's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: a good question.
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: This is so good and I know that even since
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: I've been on the podcast, we've kind of addressed like
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: how to look for a therapist and find that helpful relationship.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: But some additional things that I don't feel like i've
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: at least put and put on before is having a
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: therapist that you can not only build positive rapport with
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: because that is insanely important, but also because you've built
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: that rapport, you're able to accept feedback.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Right, They've earned the right to challenge you and you
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: can receive that from them.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: And I'll admit, as a therapist, it is hard for
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: me to navigate that and find that sweet spot as
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: well on how to challenge every unique client I work with,
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: meet them where they're at, but know that they may
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: need that, you know, at certain times. So yeah, I mean,
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: I guess my initial response is kind of that we've
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: touched on this before, and yes, having that therapeutic rapport
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: is what studies have even shown the most Yeah, most,
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: the most important thing, even over whatever therapeutic technique you're using.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: But I would say, in this case, whatever you're noticing
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: is that maybe is feeling like it's not aligning. I
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: would just question what is that like? Is it because
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: it's challenging me and I don't like that, but maybe
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: that's okay? Or is it something worse or something bigger
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: than that because you didn't really describe what.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I wish you would have writ Yeah, it would have
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: been helpful for you to kind of enumerate, like examples
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: of things that I do have reservations about. Then we
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: could have sat down and kind of qualified that. But
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that the writer kind of didn't want us
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: to be distracted by that, and he is kind of
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: asking the opposite of that, like, yeah, what does a
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: healthy good what a positive impact relationship look like? That's
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: that's fair, And I like your point if a positive
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: impact relationship in therapy, if your therapist can challenge you
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: and you can receive that, which we should point out
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't always sound confrontational. If we're really good at challenging you,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: you don't even super duper notice that we did, Like
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: we we've learned you so well that we can suggest
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: it in ways that you're like, yeah, I was kind
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: of already thinking that, right, And it's like great, yeah,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: so yeah, we're.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Both asking that question.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Han, It's like yeah, and then you're thinking like, well,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: did you challenge me or you just point out the
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: obvious and it's like, oh, I point out the You're
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: cool with it, right, Like.
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just had this in a session this week
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: where the client had was kind of being confronted. This
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: is actually a family session, which is unique, but they
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: had kind of been in this conflict with their parents
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: and I kind of asked, I was like, what do
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: you think think your parents' perspective is like challenging them?
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: And they were like, well, or what do you think
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: they're trying to say here? Because they're like, you're saying
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: this because of this What do you think they're trying
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: to say? And they were like, well, maybe I am
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: being defeateive that was like out of their mouths, Like man,
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: it was a really good feeling and them I'm like, ah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: but I mean they had to trust me to say
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: this is a safe place to even kind of challenge
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: yourself in there in the moment. But anyway, yes, yeah,
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: you don't even know. That's a good point. I hadn't
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: thought about it. It was challenging them.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: There's a way to challenge, there's a way to give feedback,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: but one has to earn the right to do that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: And this is why we keep coming back to the
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: relationship has to be strong. You have to feel very comfortable,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: you have to feel like you can be disarmed with
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: this person unguarded, and that you sense that they genuinely
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: want you to succeed, and there is this sense of like, hey,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I know you are rooting for me, and then whenever
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I nudge you, you receive that and you don't feel
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: threatened by it or hurt by it. I'm not subtracting
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: for you. You feel like I'm pushing you forward, you know.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And that's huge. So I love that insight. That's a
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: great note.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was kind of thinking, like the time that
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I went to therapy, what are the things that I
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: liked about my therapist, you know? And and I think
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: kind along the same lines, but also just I could
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: I would feel like I could say something and it
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: would be received in a non judgmental way, and yeah,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: like I could feel comfortable just saying like, hey, this
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: is what I'm thinking, even knowing in my mind like
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: like this does. Yeah, but I want you to know,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: and I want you to acknowledge and just be like
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: yeah that you know, and validate my fucked upness, right yeah,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, that was I think very helpful. And
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: she also did kind of she didn't really challenge me
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: so much as and she just did kind of just
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: like hey, yeah, that's that's kind of normal, right, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: also here's something else that maybe you're not thinking of, right,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: And it's like oh yeah, so it was more enlightening
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: than it was challenging in a way.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: Yes, I find clients find a lot of value from
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: the like, oh, when I hear that next phrase, I
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: hadn't thought about it like that, That to me is
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: all right. If I do nothing else with this client,
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: I'm glad they've at least thought that once, like this
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: is a new perspective or something that helps me understand myself.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: And to do that in a way that doesn't say like, well,
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: you're wrong, think about it this way, but doing it
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: in a way that's kind of like, hey, you know what,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: you could be right also right, here's something else that
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: could be happening too, you know, and just kind of doing.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: It that way, the gentle suggestion or sometimes that that
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: ability to sort of ask these subtle questions kind of
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: like what Whitney did, like what do you think? And
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: like you're coming off as curious because you're trying to learn,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and so you're saying, hey, what do you think?
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Mom meant?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Though, well she probably meant this, you know, it's like, oh, okay,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I can see where that is tricky, right, and we
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: can still pivot to validating and be like, I totally
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: know why that would stick in you.
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: I know why you're feeling defensive, like, oh, I kind
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: of feel like a poke in the eye.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I think, on the other hand, sounds like it was
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: an awkward thing more than malicious, And yeah, probably it's like, great,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I've just subtly helped you loosen your grip on your conclusion,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: which is going to open up some of your relationship
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: opportunity with this person and maybe a path toward letting
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: it go or forgiving. But I've done it without saying
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: your wrong drop it, and I've done it in this
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: way that is honestly bonded to you, and I've earned
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that right. And this goes back to what you're saying, Nick, like,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: it's a non judgmental receiving of what this person is
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: teaching you, but maybe still reserving the right to help
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: them question some of their conclusions, but doing it in
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: such a light handed way that it's not hurtful and
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: you don't feel invalidated. And that's an art.
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I do like Whitnick said, Now that I'm sitting
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: with that more, you know, when I've been to therapy
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: as well, I think the one thing I wanted the
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: most was to be able to just be myself, because
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: it's really hard to do that anywhere else. I'm always
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: kind of navigating, whether it's work relationships, friendships, even romantic relationships.
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: We can mostly bearselves. But also I don't want to
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: burden my partner all the time, like with my shit.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: It's got to be like they deal with theirs. Sometimes
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: I do and sometimes they do, but really a place
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: to like this is one way, and I want that,
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: Like I want to be able to release, and I
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: want your feedback too, but ninety percent of this or
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: eighty percent whatever, I want it to be me to
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: have that release, that non judgmental space.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: The other thing that I just realized too listening to
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: this is that like when when I was in when
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I went into therapy, I didn't want her to know
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: what I did for work. Yeah, yeah, I wanted her
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: to just be I hear this.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: A lot with therapists.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah we all just can I just admit it? Do
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: we all lie to our own therapist? We all do
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: this right, like we all just bury that shit. And
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: she's like, what do you do? I work in healthcare?
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: And then she's like oh what, like what and it
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: was like fine, So but I didn't I didn't really
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: want her to know because I felt like I was
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: putting undue pressure on her. I wanted her just just
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: be therapist chess with me.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to compete, like, just just do.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: It, yeah, because I was worried that she was just
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: going to feel pressure and be like oh ship and like,
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: but she handled it like a champ and like the
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: thing that she did too, is like I I finally
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: I kind of got to that point. I was like
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: I said, yeah, this is this is what I do.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, and she's like, yeah, I've got other clients
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: that are also therapists, and you know you're not the first,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: you know. And the other thing that she did that
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: she was really skillful about is it she gave the
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: impression to me that she dropped the act that she
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: wasn't trying to be a therapist, right, but she didn't
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: like she was, yeah, she was therapists, but just kind
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: of yeah, but just kind of made it appear like
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: she wasn't you know, and and then that kind of
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: let my guard down because then I felt like I
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: wasn't putting any kind of pressure.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: On her to perform. You know, so interesting, So what's
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: this is a topic in research that I am obsessed
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: with And Whitney kind of already alluded to some of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: what research tells us is the key to making psychotherapy
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: work and getting these changes in people, and how much
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: of it is relationship driven. And you even I think
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: touched on a couple of other things there that even
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: more important than which theory the therapist is using or
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: what discipline the therapist comes out of, there's other ingredients
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: that are the most important for the writer's question of
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: what makes the positive impact. And this semester, you and
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: il V, I'm teaching the internship class. So all my
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: students are out there in the field, they're all practicing,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: and then we're coming back and we're going over their cases.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: But then we're also doing these deep dives into, like,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: you know, various topics. And one of the things we
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: just did was an exploration of the common factors and writer,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the common factors in the research is basically the set
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: of things skills that we've learned that if therapists can
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: master these things, there's eight of them, that if we
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: can do these we will make a huge impact in
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: the person's life, that we will see the results. And
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: it's wild because like there's been all these studies that
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: show the best therapists that use these common factors once
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: that really mastered them. They're not just a little bit
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: better than the rest of us. They're not just a
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: tiny bit better than the average. Like it is so
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: many multiples better than the average therapist that it's such
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: a wide gap. Like I saw something in the literature
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: that compared it to if the average therapist is, uh,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: who's that fastest man alive?
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: There's saying Bolt that guy.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: So if the average therapist is Usain Bolt on the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: track the best therapist by comparison, what the researches efficacy studies,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: how much better they are? They are an F one
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: race car ah, that is how much faster they're is
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: how much better they are?
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: You could have just used you and use Saint Bolt, Okay,
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: yeah or that yeah, just.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Five steps in and who's at the finished life?
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: What are the things?
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: So I do have them?
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: I want to.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: It's tough because I want to list them, but I
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: also know that this will not do it justice. And
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: when we teach that in the classroom, the phrases sound
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: very approachable when you hear them, they sound innocuous, they
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: sound like words you've heard before. But when you crack
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: open each one of them, it's a chapter of a
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: book to explain what that is in therapy? How do
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: you do that skill?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: So we know that there's more to it than this.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: So if you're interested in this, yes, take these eight
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: things and then dive into it. Yeah, I need to
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: do a series on it in the Patreon and so
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: at some point I will.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: But two of them.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: There's eight of them, but two of them are things
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: that have already been pointed out. So actually three. So
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Nick just kind of pointed out genuineness. She seemed to
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: have dropped the act right, and so like genuineness is
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: one of the skills of mastery that when a therapist
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: can get that, that's what he's got. One finger up. Oh,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I see you're pushing me along. Positive regard is another one.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: That's something that Nick was talking about too. You genuinely
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: seem to like me. Acceptance is number three. You know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: being there and feeling like you get it accurate. Empathy
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: is another one, not just feeling for them, but understanding them,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: like on an intuitive level, and that kind of goes
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: back to what you were saying, Earning the right empathy
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: to speak to them. Yeah, am I four. Focus is
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: another one, keeping them focused on treatment plan objectives, moving
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: them along. See the writer talked about how it just
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: felt like we were bantering. It just felt like we
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: were chatting. Didn't feel like we were doing therapy anymore.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: And like when the therapist can keep nudging you into
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: deeper introspection or nudging you toward a goal or pushing
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you towards something, that focus feels better and it is
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: better therapy. Inspiring hope is another one, keeping you uplifted,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: keeping you like focused on the mission, feeling like you're
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: gonna get there, noticing change. Another one is evocation, which
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: is hard to define, but it's like the ability to
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: get you to unfold things, to develop insight, to explore things,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: to notice things that you have forgotten about.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Just passing time, discovering.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Truth, developing greater insight. And then the last one is
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: offering information and advice and like really giving actual useful
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: tips suggestions feedbacks, but doing it in a way that's
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: receivable and useful.
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: We have to do all those every session.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, no way, But the ninth one is karate.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, you could beat up people.
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: It's really important.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I like to open the first session by chopping that
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: block and there's one big swipe and there's like holy shit,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and that's right. Yeah, skills like bow wielding. I just
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: want to let my clients know that I could, if necessary,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: physically dominate.
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: I'm sending a message.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about that therapist, just
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: something about him hard kick my ass though, I'm telling you,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: just cut right through the fucking board, just one motion.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: He stared me in the eye when he did it. Anyway, writer,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of great things that can contribute to
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: a positive impact. I think we've explored some of them.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, i'd encourage you
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: don't overthink it. I mean, if you're noticing that, hey,
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: we have a genuine rapport. I'm leaning in on this.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to get so critical and so
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: like into the weeds that you start analyzing the therapists
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: instead of analyzing yourself.
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, you know, I don't think they listen
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: to this. The therapist that I met with, I actually
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: really liked a lot of things about her, but I
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: didn't feel like it was one hundred percent match. But
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: I valued the things that she did give. So I
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: did meet with her for quite a few sessions and
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: kind of took it as like, Okay, I'm going to
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: take the things I can gather from this. I think
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: there probably is a better match out there for me,
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: but this is still a good match for now to
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: get me through I what I need to get through.
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: And once I felt like it was not serving me
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: as much anymore, and I feel like it the relationship
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: I kind of played out. Then I ended that relationship,
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: And you know, if when I decided to go back
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: to therapy, I'll look for something a little bit different.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: I actually know more of what I'm looking for because
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: of that experience of that.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And also doesn't mean.
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: She's a bad therapist at all.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And never discounting that somebody that you don't think is
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: a good fit for you may have something profound for you,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: correct you know, and you might realize, like, wow, I
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: don't have a lot of lived experience with people of
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: your personality type or your approach. I didn't know what
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: to that you would have, like, I don't know how
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: you think, and that different brain is sometimes really helpful.
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree, So just.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Keeping an open mind, writer, But I love this question.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I love that it gives us a chance to kind
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: of opine on.
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: That, revisit it in a different way for.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Everybody out there. Some people get way too caught up
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: in the search and they're like, oh, man, it seems
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: to come down to who the therapist is and the
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: relationship and like all these unseen qualities that you can't
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: quite put on a resume. And I get it. And
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: because of that, people can like get so preoccupied with
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: that that they never begin their own work. And I
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: like your story, Whitney, because it kind of encourages just
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: get started, get started wherever you are, with whoever's available,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: and just begin. Don't believe that one therapist is the
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: be all, end all. They're part of your story, right,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Just look for a couple of puzzle pieces they're holding
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: on to for you, and then move and you'll get
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: more puzzle pieces from other people.
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: And I know, Jim, you don't do this in your practice,
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: and that's okay. But I think reaching out for console
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: calls and it's just ten or fifteen minutes.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: I thought you just, oh, console calls with the patient
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: no idea. Yeah, I thought you meant like consultation with professionals.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: Oh no, I mean like if I'm looking for a
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: therapist or I do that one because I don't want
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: to waste my time ear theres and so I'm like, yeah,
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: reach out to me, and they will say I just
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: had this console call recently. They were like, oh, I've
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: been doing EMDR and I'm like, well, I'm not trained
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: and I don't do a MDR. This is what I do,
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: and so if you're looking for that, then you may
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: want to look somewhere else. But if you're okay trying this,
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: this is how I operate. And usually if they feel
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: like we click, they're like, no, I'm fine. It's kind
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: of funny and so, but I think you can really
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: feel out just through even a ten minute phone conversation
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: if somebody's like.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: It's not always available, like in my practice, is not
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that take insurance. If you're calling
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: an agency, they're not going to let you start calling
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: each therapist and doing them. You know, they're just going
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: to say, hey, what day in time is good for you,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: We're going to find somebody and or do this intake
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: paperwork and then we'll case it and we'll assign it
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: to somebody we think is a good fits.
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: You can always yeah, sometimes email and ask like do
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: you I'll do consoles.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I do that, Like if somebody message me on Yelp
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: or they get to my website. Yeah, I'll get that
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: from psychology today and they'll say, hey, some questions and
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I'll give them the feedback. Oh that's a good point,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: So I'll do that. It's just I can't block out
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: my calendar. You just take the calls because then they'll
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: never end. I try really hard when I'm when I'm
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: whenever I'm doing anything and not just therapy, when I'm
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: doing something where I'm hiring a professional to do it,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I try really.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: Hard to give like all benefit of the doubt.
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: At first, I walk in going like you are the professional,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: you're doing this, like you know therapist.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah I'm not. I feel like I don't look I
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: wouldn't look too hard for a therapist.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: Find that therapist and go in with the expectation that
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: they're going to be good.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you that benefit of the doubt until
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: you show me that you're not, and then I'm gonna
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: move on or I'm I'm gonna take action whatever action
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: needs to be taken there.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: But maybe maybe try and swing into that mindset a
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: little bit more good advice.
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: Don't don't stress too much about it and just go
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: in assume that they know what they're doing.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: It's like when you go into like a massage envy. Okay,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Like you don't go in and go like I have
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: to I have to look at all the different massewers
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: and everything in here.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: You go in and go like who's available?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, this person's available. They're a professional masseuse working at
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: a massage place.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Yep, they're gonna be fine.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can give a lot. Or the barbers, you know,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, you can find your barber. It's like, oh,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: they just know what I want.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: They got it. Then you have to talk to them
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: or whatever.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like maybe you'll find that click. But you wouldn't
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: have found them if you didn't try, right, So you
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: just got to show up and try and then next
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: time try somebody else if you need to so anyway,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Special said, oh yeah, they always expecting that Wisdom of
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: thirty eight special, which is probably gonna be the episode
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: title now that I think about it, the wisdom.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: I think we would be better.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Can we? I don't know, can anybody? It's the deeper question.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: We haven't yet writer.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: I look forward to reading your review on iTunes or
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Spotify or good iTunes and the Spotify thank you and
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: anywhere else. Go into our episode description, everybody. The links
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: are already there to save you this stuff. Anyway, We're
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: going to take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: we're talking about p T s D.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: You're listening to pod there. Today's episode is sprought to
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: you by Robert Brownie Junior, Miss Kayla Lansbury In Chamberlain,
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin Lives Hey Yo, and
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Andrew Langmead. If you would like to sponsor the show,
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: become a third person producer at patreon dot com, slash
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: there all right, where we at Jim crushing it. The
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: Sumerian civilization, often credited with developing the first known writing system,
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: thrived in which modern day country.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Iran No.
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: Whitney Samerian.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: I took a good one, right, pretty good.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: You threw me off a little bit. I don't know.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Ale Iraq, Yes, yes.
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: I was like, well, that's a good guess is probably
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: somewhere around there.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: And I was like.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Cradle of civilization issue thanks to.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: All right Whitney, the horror Pan civilization, part of the
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Indus Valley civilization, which of course familiar with Indonesia was
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: located in which to modern day countries Indonesia and yeah,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Indonesia horror Pan civilization h A r A P p
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: A n oh fuck.
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: Sure, why not Indonesia and uh not Micronesia.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: What's next to Indonesia?
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: Indonesia an island.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Outro like s.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: It's a cluster of islands. You're a cluster of islands.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Nice to stay down.
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: Cambodia and I don't know cambod Thailand.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: Sure, no, dang it. I forgot what the question is
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: from the baby.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: It's never Canada and oh the US Canada in the US.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: I was still in Pakistan. Correct.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know about geography, but this ancient civilization.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Brain is like and this river valley, that's this area,
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: all right, Jacob, all right, the Manoans famous for their
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: place of nass and their connection to the minotaur live
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: on which modern day islands. If you give the country,
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: I will I will award points.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: There's a that was a grease right, Yes.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: It is not two points for the island. Idn't want
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: to go for it.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: I'll take a shot at it for it. Pat Most no,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: fuck Ephesus no, So that's negative common.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: Only. Jim loses points.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: If you guess Jim loses points.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: I'm crete. Oh yeah, there we go. Good job, Crete.
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: I've got twenty more of those so we can in
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: the next episode.
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: My brain hurts, the hell am I doing here?
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Who's winning?
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: I think I am?
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: S D's nuts Hello, pod therapist Jim and Whitney in
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: my mouth and doctor.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: Life coach shake well respected.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't go to a life coach at school for
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: six years, Jacob.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I am a combat veteran with PTSD and I need
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: help figuring out how to survive my own big fat
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Greek wedding weekend. My fiance and I are getting married
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: this June at her father's farmhouse. Because it's not at
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: a traditional venue, the wedding party is arriving early to
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: help set up on Thursday, we have the rehearsal and
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: dinner on Friday, the wedding on Saturday, and a big
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: family branch on Sunday, essentially four straight days of high
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: stimulus socializing. Ever since returning from Iraq almost twenty years ago,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I've struggled with crowds, prolonged social settings, or any other
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: high stimulus environment. I've sought therapy for this in the
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: past and have made great strides, but every day is
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: still a struggle. Even during short gatherings like holidays, I
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: often have to step away to take a nap, which
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: is really just me staring at the ceiling, meditating, trying
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: to decompress from hypervigilance and overstimulation. Whole weekend of this
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: kind of activity can leave me drained for days or
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: even weeks battling a depressive episode. I love my family
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm very much looking forward to this day, but
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I know it's going to be a challenge. The best
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: way I've described managing these symptoms is that I like
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: it that it's like holding my hand on a hot stove.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: I can force myself to keep my hand down, but
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: the pain builds and eventually my will gives out. Even
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: when I manage, there's a constant ticking clock counting down
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: toward a building panic attack. My fiance is incredibly understanding,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: and we're working on strategies for me to take short
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: breaks when needed. Optimally, I'd like to excuse myself from
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: entire parts of it, like the rehearsal dinner or the brunch,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: but as the groom, this isn't really an option as
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I can't irish goodbye my own wedding. I also worry
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: about how I come across to my in laws and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: guests who don't really get that my need for space
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: isn't personal and it's not about who is there, but
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: how much is happening at once. The last thing I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: want is to seem disinterested or like an asshole who
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't care about my own wedding. I don't want to
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: just get through this weekend. I want to actually be
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: able to enjoy what's supposed to be the happiest day
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: of my life without having PTSD induced panic attacks. Any
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks for all you do, signed,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: live laugh, Leave me alone, Sergeant Social anxiety.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Question.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Here can we normalize getting cool signatures at the ends
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: of these things.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 6: I mean, like the anonymous thing is fine, but like
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: do that, I like that, Give me those and then
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: we get to call you serget Yeah, I'll allow it.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: I outrank him, but I'll allow it. Do you only
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: in Kentucky? Well, first of all, thank you for your service. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: this is really and honest, I think you're doing all
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: the right things. You're doing all the things that I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: would suggest you do. You know, the thing that I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: always think about, like the best predictor of future behavior's
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: past behavior. And that's one of the benefits that you
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: have going for you right now is you know you
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: better than anybody else, and you can you can use
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: that information to your advantage. You know what situations are
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: going to be triggering, you know your your limit, you
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: know your stress level, you know what you can take,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: you know all of that. Use that to your advantage.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: And again, like I think you're already doing a lot
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: of the right things. You're planning in breaks. My only
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: advice to you, I think is it's not for anybody
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: else to understand, right, you know, And I think that's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: the hardest part because I'm the same way too, Like
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: I you know, I do care a lot about other
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: people's opinions and what they think of me, or well,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do this because I don't want
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: them to think I'm rude. But at the end of
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: the day, they'll be fine, you know, They're they're they're
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: attending a wedding, and even though you are that you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: and your to be wife are going to be the
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: stars of the show. The wedding will go on with
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: you guys not being there.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: You know, at weddings, you know, like after the ceremony,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: before the reception, uh, you know, for the for the
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: new couple to just disappear for you know, an hour
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: pictures or something like that, you know, and the and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: the party just happens without them.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: That's reasonable, That's perfectly normal. I'm thinking of all my
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: you know, uh cousins that got married and going to
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: the wedding, thinking like I will probably say two or
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: three words and then because they're going to be busy,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: they're bouncing around.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: But everyone's going to do that exactly.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah, yeah, And so I guess what I'm saying
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: is that any one individual person is probably not going
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: to notice.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: That's true that there there are a couple of things
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: that I would do one is I would deputize a
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: couple of other people.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: God, you got the bride already, she is gonna be busy.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is the wedding day. So like you're gonna
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: be busy, she's also gonna be busy. Of course. You
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: know that if there's ever work for a best man,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: if you have.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: If you have a wedding party that you can lean
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: on a little you know, not even the whole wedding party,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: if there is like one or two people there that
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: you can lean on a little bit and just say
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: and they and again, like Nick said, they don't have
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: to understand it. They just have to care about you,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: because all you're gonna do is go to them and say, look,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: I I do you know I've got I've got the
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: PTSD thing from my from my service days.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: I do get a little uncomfortable around crowds. Uh.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: There are times that I'm gonna need to disappear for
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: a few minutes at a time here and there, just
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: to take little breaks whenever, whenever I feel like kind
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: of building up. And if you could do me a favor,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: help me out when I need to take those breaks,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: you know, help me, help me get out of a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: conversation that I'm having or whatever.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: And also maybe kind of keep an eye on me.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: And if you see signs that I'm starting to get uh,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: you know a little a little stressed about the situation,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: maybe come in and uh and make an excuse for me.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: Make maybe even come in and say help, Yeah, I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: need you to help out here or something like that.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: Also, you talk about not wanting to leave events, uh
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: that you're that you're in like brunches and rehearsal dinners
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: and everything else. You are the motherfucking groom, you're getting married.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: You could do whatever you want. So if you want
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: to leave, that's fine. However, if you want to do
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: something that people won't notice or comment on, or if
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: they do comment on, it'll be positive. You can show
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: up late. You can cut the time short on the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: front end and make an entrance. You could come in
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: with your with your bride to be, make a whole
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: entrance thing. And you know, like if if everybody's doing
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: a rehearsal dinner, if you feel.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: Like you have to go to that, you do the rehearsal,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: then take your break.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: You can you take your you take your break. You
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: let them do do their thing, a thing where you
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: have to order food or something like that. Somebody else
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: orders your food for you. You show up with the food.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: You know, you can do do the chores. There's all
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: those little things that you can do.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: That's a great I like this idea of recruiting the team.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: And I also like the idea of like the secret signal.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: It's like you go, hey, man, if you see me
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: pulling on my ear or something like this, like you
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: see me keep checking my watch.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the sick finger in the.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: Nose, like yes it yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, brushing the shoulder.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to be there.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: And then I love that idea of just run interference
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: for me, Man, come up and pull out a phone
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: and or call my phone.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know, and just call.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: If you're having like a big wedding with with a
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: lot of guests and everything, you're going to find that
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: it becomes easier than you think to disappear because everybody's
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: just going to think you're off with a different group
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: of people.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: Especially the groom. I'd imagine yeah, yeah, they're staring at yeah,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: this is for the bride.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: You are basically a placeholder, buddy, Yeah, that's it.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: Exist I want to and again correct me whoever's here
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: if I'm wrong, But I feel like in weddings, uh,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: you know, the day of especially like it's a whole
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: all day thing for the bride, but like grooms, as
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: far as I know the right, like there is time
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: and nobody's checking on.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: You, and like's just he's stuck there for four days though,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: so it's a farm and he's like, yeah.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: That's true, so you're kind of around. But in my mind,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: it's like I want to make sure in Jim's terms,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: were right sizing this where uh we see the writer
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: may be seeing this as four days of socializing like NonStop,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: but the reality is going to be like, Okay, you
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: have rehearsal, rehearsal dinner. That's an evening. That's still a lot.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: I don't want to underestimate that, but that's an evening
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: you're uh you know, wedding day, that's an afternoon and evening.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: We're looking at like a four hour window there, which
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: is an intense four hour window. But before that is
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: going to.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: Be in a building, yeah, right, not intent.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: Well, the windows are nice.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe for the reception.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: I was like the window of time. I don't know
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: the tense of course, but yeah, I just think there's
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: like I mean again, as a bride, it was a lot.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: But my perception has always been for the grooms, they're
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: just chilling and hanging out. You can go chill in
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 5: your room by yourself if you like, Hey, I'm going
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: to go take a nap before.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: This day, like every like the day of my wedding,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: I went and had just like lunch. I wouldn't have
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: chili dogs at a local.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: Chili dogs before. Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like a couple of a couple of friends. Dad,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: But like just silly stuff like yeah, you can do
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: whatever you want.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: Please know what Jacob was saying, you can also this.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: This may be the type of person you are. I
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: know it is the type of person I am.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Something that can help me is to have something to do.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Uh So, like they're going to be things to do.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: They're gonna be jobs to do, give yourself chores.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're going to be things like all these chairs
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: got to get set up for the reception.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: We need a bag of ice. That's it. I'm on it.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Graven into the nearest town. I'll be back in two hours.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: If they're in a farmhouse, you've got a good hour,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: has the best ice.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, drive out there.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Somebody needs to harvest these crops for the wedding.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: I'm on it.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Crops just sitting out here.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Now, this is all really good traditional. I think that
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: we're normalizing.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: We're normalizing that the writer has I think permission, social permission,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: and event permission. The spouse is already in on this.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: The groomsmen could be notified. So I really like preemptive
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: education helping the guests understand, Hey, I love you all
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: the pieces. I just want to be, you know, playing
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: with you, that I do have some of these struggles.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: And so if I ever seen a little antsy or
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: you you don't see me for a little bit, know
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: that I'm okay.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: I love you.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that you're here. But my social batteries
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: a little over spent. Writer therapeutically things that I think
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: you can also bring to the party here if you
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: haven't already started looking into grounding techniques.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: And it sounds like you've done.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Therapy before, and I imagine this scenario you've done some
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: exploration in, but really just sharpening up on that whole
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: skill set. There are a lot of different grounding techniques
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: that you can kind of play with, and these are
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: things that you can kind of have in your pocket
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: that are good distractions that get your mind out of
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: the stimulation, right, that hypervigilance, that hyper awareness. Anything we
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: can do that can kind of distract your brain's awareness
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: into these other places. And that's fundamentally. There's so many
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: different ways to do grounding techniques. But I would encourage
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: you to kind of open up that file again and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: explore that space. You have like a lot of months
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: as we record this, about four months before the actual event.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: You've been dealing with this for a long time. You
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: went to Iraq twenty years ago, You've done a lot
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: of personal work on it. At this point, I'm curious
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: if you've ever talked to a psychiatrist.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 6: I was just.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: It's an important talk about that.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: Earlier.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: That's a great valuable tools of your doctor, you know,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: under the recommend doctor. We don't recommend that, but the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: consultation of your doctor explaining what you've explained to us.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you have ever experiments with different medicines
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: under correct supervision, you have four months to practice with them,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: to talk to a doctor and say, hey, this is
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: what's coming up in my life. It's kind of like
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: when you know, you have a big flight and you
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: and people have anxiety for that, and it's like.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: This is the time to most try to try the
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 5: one day.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, try, you know, like try these things out. And
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: then that's also tru technique. Don't do like your whitneys
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: xanax example, don't do like this is the first time
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: I've ever tried xanax, Like, don't don't do that yet. Yeah,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: think of all those things too, and yeah, you've got
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: time practicing knowing how it affects you. Yes, under the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: supervision of your doctor, assuming they agree with this, and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: that you didn't bring this up maybe because you've already
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: tried that stuff or you already have these tools, and
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: that just doesn't solve the problem. Again, we just you
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: didn't mention it. So we just want to make sure
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: that we're you know, checking out. The writer might even
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: be like an addict or something like that. Yeah, sure,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know about all kinds of things that could
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: be keeping them from doing, but just mentioning it, but
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: also mentioning grounding techniques and then yeah, I think, you know,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: enlisting your crew and then educating the guests, just with
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a disclaimer, the same way people
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: do before they give a speech and they say, Hey, everybody,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty anxious, but I'm gonna muscle through this.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Please bear with me. Oh I don't.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: The audience is on your side now.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think you have to tell everybody about it.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah you can. I'm saying, there's nothing wrong with that. Oh, yes,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: I do agree with that. Yeah, you don't have to. No,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: I don't. I certainly don't think you have to.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: But you know, you can quickly give some kind of
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: light disclaimer of hey, you know, I don't do well
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: with crowds, and you know, thank you for your patience
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: with me. If I, you know, kind of wander off
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: like okay, great, or you know, I just don't like
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: to be grouped up on so all those ideas, right.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: I think this is going to be successful though, And
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: coming back to I think what multiple people said at
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the end of this, brother, this is your day.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: This is for you and your bride.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: I had over two hundred people at my wedding. I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: have no fucking clue what any of them thought. If
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: they had a good night, it does not matter. And like,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: I've had twenty years with my in laws, so whatever
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: impression they got that night, whatever happened, we've had more
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: opportunities to hang.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: Out, and the other people aren't going to remember. Like
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: if you asked me to think about all the weddings
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: I've been to and like what the bride and groom
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: were doing, Like I couldn't freaking tell you more than
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 5: maybe two seconds of that wedding, and nobody's.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Judging the bride and groom, like, oh, they seemed a
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: little pissy, Like shut the fuck up.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: The cake's good, you better cake.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: Your job is the show.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: It cry danced time, an acceptable amount of drinks, go home, Yeah,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: don't puke in the lawn.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: That's that's the whole point.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: So congratulations, right, Yeah, I think this is going to
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: be great for you. And let's just believe together that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: if you get you're gonna get married. At the end
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: of this thing, you're going to be hitched, so it
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: will work out for you.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: But thanks for listening to the show, Thanks for a
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: really good questions.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: On the man.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Congratulations, that's out. Well, we are going to take a
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: quick break and when we come back, we are wrapping
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: up the show. You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brown, Men,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin Live,
• 1:14:36
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• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: the show? Become a therapy? Sure at patriot dot com slash.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: The Thank you everybody who wrote in, and thank you
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: to my co host who all got an ass whooping
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: in trivia today.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: Well I'm a humble champion.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's still you did. Yeah, yeah, just not enough.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: That's that's how that works out.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: And also for the listeners, at one point we did
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: have to stop the show due to technical issues, and
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: if you can timestamp that and tell us when it was,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: because our editing is so good, we don't think you can. Yes,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: if you can spot that, Jim, what will you do
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: for them? I will post the show on time.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: I mean I haven't been doing that lately, so yeah,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: that'd be great. I get a lot of d ms
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: on Wednesday afternoons, Like what the fuck?
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're all about to make fun of
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Jim for that answer.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: Let's just go with.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Solids a solid gift anyway, as we wrap up the show, we.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: Do also, I haven't edited these two pieces together yet,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: so I don't know if they're gonna be good at that.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: We'll try. We want to remind you can sign up
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash there, but you can get
• 1:15:52
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• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: we and also entire life chat, Discord community and our
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: And as we arrived today, who has joined us at
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: the therap party at patreon dot com slash therapy, we.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: Got a new therapial. Welcome to the show, Brenna Hullhouse.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's Brianna.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: Sorry, Brianna. I was so focused on the last name. Yeah,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: I just went right there. Yeah, welcome, Welcome Brianna.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: You know, and I think we got another person. I
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: think it's from last week. They're in the discord. We
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: have a channel in the Discord where people can introduce themselves.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, and she introduced herself and it was just
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: really fun to read like how they find our show,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: you know, like people are just searching therapy and like
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: the title of the show is finally paying off Nick.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Our whole theory is that it might occasionally show up,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: and it does, but just really nice. This person wrote
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: in their introduction that they've been in therapy for years.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: They've been listening to the show for a long time.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Their insurance got a little complicated, they can't see a therapist,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: and they decided this show is becoming like their default.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: So they started putting therapy money into the show and
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: sponsoring the show, and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna contribute
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: to mental health somewhere and since been getting something from
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: the show.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: Now what I'll take it, take a few bucks. So
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: thank you for that summing love having it.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: And of course we want to praise and worship our theity,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: the dark Lord himself, Jim's Fasha, and we'd like to
• 1:17:21
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• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: who love you all so much they give till it
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• 1:17:31
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• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: We run it every year, and it's time for Sushi's
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: showdown here in the show, time to do it. Who's
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: gonna be the losing bitch this year?
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: We lost last year?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: I think it was Whitney. No, Whitney bought us all
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: suits last year.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good night.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: That was really good suits.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: We went to go mon, didn't we. Oh yeah yeah.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: This year, assuming I don't lose, I want to go
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: to an Oli cart place. Oh yeah in Japan.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: If I lose, We're going to McDonald.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: McDonald's mcfish sandwich. Right and if you would like to,
• 1:19:03
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• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: That's all the time we got for this week's session.
• 1:19:14
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• 1:19:19
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• 1:19:39
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• 1:19:41
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• 1:19:45
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  Speaker 3: link in the episode description. I'm Nick Tangerman, I'm Old Jim. Thanks,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: so we'll see if your appointments next week. All right,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: good rehearsal, everybody, back to one.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: We didn't record any of that, yeah, right, rehearsal, Yeah, goodbye, everybody,