Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 18 - Hebrew Knowledge Bringer Myth?

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Ep. 18 - Hebrew Knowledge Bringer Myth? · Martyr's Row

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  Barnabas was of Cyprus, but of Jewish descent.
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  His death is supposed to have taken place about
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  AD 73. And yet, not withstanding all these continual
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  persecutions and horrible punishments, the church
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  daily increased, deeply rooted in the doctrine
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  of the apostles and of men apostolical and watered
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  plentously with the blood of saints. Hey, Paul.
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  Hey, Steven. We don't normally ask questions
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  this early. But I'm going to ask you a question
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  this early. I love it. What's your favorite Disney
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  movie? You know what? You are not the first person
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  today to ask me that question. Weird. Oh, OK.
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  That's crazy. Name the person. Just kidding.
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  Disney movie. Name job. Charles Barkley. That
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  was, for some reason, the first name that came
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  to my head. I don't know. Is that uh, some kind
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  of Freudian stuff? Well now I'm thinking Space
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  Jam. Oh nice. But that's not a Disney movie.
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  Paramount? Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers,
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  yeah duh. Why did I say Paramount? Well, when
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  I initially started to say it, I didn't know
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  who it was either. But then I said Warner Brothers,
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  it's like yeah duh. Cause the Looney Tunes. Yeah.
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  So forget about Warner Brothers, Disney. Anyway,
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  Disney. Disney movie, favorite Disney movie.
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  Are we counting Pixar movies as well, like Disney
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  Pixar? Yeah. We are? Well I was gonna say like,
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  so they're acquired now. Yes. So if you pick
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  something pre, they're acquiring. Yeah, okay,
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  so that movie won't work. So growing up, Toy
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  Story was my go -to. Yeah. I love Toy Story.
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  For sure. Even to this day. It's great. So quotable.
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  But pure Disney, I would say, and I know it's
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  problematic. Pure Disney. It's problematic to
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  say this one, probably. Why? Because it's the
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  Aristocats. I don't think that's problematic.
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  Well, because I know people have some of this
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  stuff and they're like, oh, that's weird. I think
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  that's every Disney movie, though. Probably.
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  It's from an era. But I like it. It is. Because
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  of the music, mostly. OK. I can see that. Isn't
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  it set in France? Yeah. OK. Yeah. It's just like
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  the music in it is great. Yeah. Um, it's just
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  got like a fun vibe to it. Yeah, it's like man.
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  This is it. I love just like the um Think probably
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  it's like my spirit animal Thomas O'Malley Okay,
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  cuz he's just like this. I honestly don't know
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  much about the movie. Oh really? Yeah, so he's
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  the he's the orange cat. Okay, just like this
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  He's just out living his life. Is that the one
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  with the light? Yes, which is the problematic
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  song? I'm glad I brought it up Pin pointed The
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  only thing I know about it is what's wrong with
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  it. Yeah Which, honestly, I'm not surprised,
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  actually. Yeah, fair enough. But the other ones
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  that are close are like Robin Hood and the Jungle
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  Book. Jungle Book. Those are up there for me.
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  Mowgli. And I think I pick those versus the main
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  ones because everyone picks those. And I have
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  to be weird. Yeah, I understand. But yeah, what
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  about you? What would you say yours? Honestly,
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  probably one that... Here's a tough thing. I'm
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  also like showing my kids These you're kind of
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  reliving them. Yeah, and the cool thing is is
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  like my oldest Like really went through a phase
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  where he wanted to only watch Like 1950s Mickey
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  really? Yeah, which was kind of cool You're actually
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  really cool. Yeah, so like and then like we've
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  gone back and watched all the the early Peanuts
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  stuff, Charlie Brown, things like that. So that
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  type of stuff is cool. But one that I've found
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  that I know a lot of the words to, as if it's
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  a song, is Aladdin. Oh, I forgot about Aladdin.
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  One of my favorite... Okay, Aladdin's up there.
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  I know, one of the very... The scene that really
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  sticks in my head is when they... At the beginning
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  when they take he takes he steals the bread.
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  Yeah, and then they sit down him and Abu yes,
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  they sit down and Abu I Don't know I've never
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  done that before but they sit down with the bread
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  and then he breaks it and he's like, ah, the
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  spoil is like tied, like, yeah, we just stole
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  this. He gives it to him. And then of course
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  they look up and there's like starving children
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  in front of them and he shares it with them.
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  But the one that sears in my brain is Abu just
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  goes into the bread and it's a perfect circle
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  out of the middle of the bread. And that's just
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  like seared in my mind. It's like, I don't know
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  how, I've never been able to do that before.
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  You know, I've tried. Even like when people make
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  the bites and like apples. Yeah, I've wanted
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  to bite an apple like that But here's the thing
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  a booze a monkey So his mouth protrudes forward
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  a little bit. So I think it allows that like
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  perfect shape. Yeah. Yeah, it's Yeah, you know,
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  I forgot about Aladdin Aladdin is It's top three
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  for me. It's great easily top three. I mean it
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  has like hidden treasure. Yeah it's got robin
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  williams robin williams actually you know it's
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  funny so i have only done one play in my life
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  like musical theater play and it was aladdin
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  no no no no okay it was like i don't think i
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  heard it was beauty and the beast okay um but
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  for my audition for it which was the first time
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  ever auditioned for a play okay i i did um Friend
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  like what? Yeah friend like me. That's what it
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  never have a friend never. Yeah, you know No,
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  how that's the yeah, that's when they're in the
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  cave. Yeah, that's right. That's a yeah So I
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  did that he tricks him into giving him a wish
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  I have no clue what I'm doing During my audition
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  cuz I was like I'm doing everything wrong and
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  I have no clue what that's an intense song to
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  have to do Yeah, I don't know why I picked it.
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  Oh, you picked it. I picked it. Yeah. Oh, I thought
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  they picked it for no I was just like, yeah,
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  I'll do it Should've done something from The
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  Jungle Book. That would've been cool. Baloo?
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  Yeah. Yeah, there you go. What about modern Disney?
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  Like, are there any, like - What era are we starting
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  that from? Like, from Frozen on? Or, not Frozen,
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  sorry, from Tangled? Is that a time point? It
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  is in my head. Tangled? Cause isn't that like,
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  that's like 2010, isn't it? I have no idea. When
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  that came out? I have no idea. Because I feel
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  like they were silent for a while and then they
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  just came out with that movie. They just all
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  of a sudden had silent films? In my head. Yeah,
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  like they didn't have like any movies coming
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  out and they're like, and here's Rapunzel now.
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  Oh, I guess I didn't realize that. But let's
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  say that. That's what it is in my head. OK. So
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  I could be completely wrong about that. Yeah.
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  I mean, how often do you still watch new Disney
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  movies? Almost never. Yeah. Feel like if I'm
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  gonna watch him like a Disney movie, it's gonna
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  be one of the old ones. Okay. Yeah Well, there's
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  one that I've actually like really liked to go
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  back and watch and the funny thing is like because
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  I like have two boys mmm like sometimes I'm like
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  Okay, let's watch a movie all together But I'm
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  gonna pick whichever one I feel like watching
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  Because I also have to sit here and watch this
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  like we can't watch Rocky for again But um, yeah,
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  so there's a couple that like I'll jump into
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  but one of them that I actually really like is
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  a movie called Luca. Oh, yeah. Actually, I saw
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  half of it. OK, which half? The last half. The
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  middle half? I was going to guess that. The last
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  half of it. OK. Was that like a you finished
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  one movie and went to the next? No, I walked
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  in when someone else was watching it. Did they
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  go? Oh, you know what? You caught me watching
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  Luca! No! Can I watch the west of this one here?
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  I want to see the west of it. You don't know
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  the beginning! It does not matter to me. Just
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  let me see the west. I don't know why we just
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  attached that voice. I don't that's been a recent
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  thing apparently. It's been coming back. Yeah
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  No, I mean like in the podcast like the last
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  couple episodes. Yeah, we just keep doing it.
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  No, you keep doing it. That's true. I do it.
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  I don't know why It's fun. Oh, it is fun. No,
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  you know actually which one is greatest cocoa
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  Yeah, there's also some weirdness. It's problematic.
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  Absolutely it is but it is a good one. I found
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  for me I tend to attach them So Luca, I intentionally
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  wanted to bring this movie up. Do you understand
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  the plot of Luca? So basically like a fish that
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  wants to be a human? Yeah, but a sea monster.
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  Oh, okay. So it's like kind of a... Like it's
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  a sea monster. Like the town... Potoroso. It's
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  like a little Italian town and they have lore
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  around there being sea monsters. Oh cool. But
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  the thing you find out in Luca is that the sea
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  monsters when they come out and they dry off
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  they turn into humans. That's right yeah. Which
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  is real weird. Because there's a way it's like
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  as long as they're not touching water. Yeah.
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  Yeah. And like there's one like there's one scene
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  where like the two boys sleep outside and they
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  wake up and they're trying to hide it from the
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  people that they're sea monsters. And they wake
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  up and the rain or the dew had rested on them.
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  And so they're like, the girl opens the window
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  and is like, good morning. And they look at each
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  other and they're both sea monsters. And so they
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  jump down and dry off. Anyways. That's crazy.
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  Have you ever heard the name Luca before? I know
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  someone who named their son Luca. Okay, but do
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  you know what Luca is? Okay, so Luca is not actually
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  a name. It's an acronym. Really? Yes. I'm glad
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  you know nothing about this. Yeah, you're surprising
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  me. I was also surprised. So Luca is actually
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  an old acronym and it stands for Last Universal
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  Common ancestor, Luka, is the hypothesized common
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  ancestral cell from which the three domains of
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  life, the bacteria, the archaea, and the eukarya,
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  originated. What? The cell had a lipid bilayer.
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  It possessed the genetic code and ribosomes,
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  which translated from DNA or RNA to proteins.
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  The Luka probably existed at least 3 .6 billion
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  years ago and possibly had as early as 4 .3 billion
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  years ago or earlier. The nature of this point
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  or stage of divergence remains a topic of research.
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  So essentially, all earlier forms of life preceding
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  this divergence and all existent organisms are
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  generally thought to share a common ancestry.
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  So like. No way. Essentially, Luca is. all of
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  the necessary cells to create human life diverging
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  together. That's so crazy. So it's the last universal
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  common ancestor. So it's essentially all of these
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  things. Someone has to change their child's name.
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  Yeah. And... So so the idea of like when they
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  come out of the water so the water would be Like
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  their primordial state if you will and then when
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  they come out of it they become human is like
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  their evolutionary Endpoint, that's how the sea
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  monsters. Yeah, so like is that what they're
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  trying to is so do they invent the name Luca?
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  Yeah, these people did a long time ago. That's
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  crazy. That's crazy. There's a lot more here
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  that I'm just not gonna read Yeah, I've seen
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  a lot of words. Yeah, there's a lot of things.
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  But so I didn't know what that was. Yeah. And
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  then I heard someone just like offhand mention
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  it. Oh, yeah. The the like Luca. It's like, you
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  know, the last last universal common ancestor.
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  I was like, Luca is having. Wait a minute. That's
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  my favorite movie. Disney. But I mean they're
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  doing suspicious things but then it got me thinking
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  about like how all of the it's like Like all
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  almost all of the Disney movies or a lot of children's
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  stories or it like all has yet in like true things
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  Right that like this all is built off of that.
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  So they thought like yeah Okay, here's a sea
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  monster that when it gets dry it turns into human.
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  Let's name him Luca Yeah, yeah because he's the
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  last common or last universal common ancestry
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  and it's like wait a minute well i mean we see
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  that even in like the jungle book okay it's like
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  tell me the song i want to be like you it's like
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  oh yeah yeah that's exactly what it is yeah the
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  monkey becoming a boy who wants to become a human
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  yeah and he's saying oh if you just teach me
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  these things then i'll i'll be able to evolve
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  panokia is a wooden boy without a soul that was
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  the chair and i hope they heard it I never thought
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  about that Well, I didn't know about it cuz that
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  was crazy. That's the that's the It's the Mayan
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  one isn't it? The flood Mayan myth, right? Yeah,
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  it was because of the wooden people with no soul.
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  Yeah That's crazy. Yeah. Oh, but then he gets
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  a soul Yeah For being a good boy. Well cuz they
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  saw this one he wished to the fairy godmother.
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  Yeah, that's true Geppetto did cuz he could prove
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  you could be a real boy. Yeah. Jiminy Cricket.
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  Jiminy Cricket. Jiminy Cricket, Luca. I guess
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  what's amazing to me, though, is again, it goes
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  into our topics of myths where it's just all
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  these things are attached to something. Yeah.
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  And it just it's like what and I think in a lot
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  of ways what we call folklore and the made up
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  stories still are based in the myths that are
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  based on the telling of reality. Yeah, I think
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  it was a realization, like a massive realization
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  to me to go like, so nothing is completely out
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  of thin air. Meaning, like when I create something,
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  when other people are creating things, when I'm
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  watching someone that's something that they created,
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  they're getting a lot of it from other places.
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  Yes. It goes back to the conversation that we
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  were having before where like, I don't think
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  humans are that creative. Like I think that they
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  are creative, but I don't think humans typically
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  originate things. No, it seems like we're, there's
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  things, I mean, it's the question where it's
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  like, who's the first guy who's like, let me
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  eat that cow. Or, hey, this egg, it just came
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  out of this chicken. let me eat it. Yeah, that's
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  a weird example, but yes. Yeah, it is a weird,
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  I kind of wanted it to be, but you know what
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  I mean? It's like, things like that, you're just
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  like, I would never think of that. Right. If
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  I just happened upon it, I'd be like, gross.
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  Yeah. Let me go on about my day. Yeah, exactly.
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  But we know that, oh, this is safe to eat, and
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  it's actually good for you. Yeah. It's like,
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  well, how did we learn that? Yeah. Yeah, but
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  go beyond that and go to like, even things that
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  are invented, like patented and things like that.
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  Yeah. They talk about how like, a lot of times,
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  especially back when we couldn't communicate
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  across the globe, they would see things being
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  created within a couple of years across the planet
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  that those people had no interaction. It's like,
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  how does that happen? It's like, well, everything
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  is moving in this direction, and it's just the
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  natural next step. It's the Luca moment. It's
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  the, you know what I mean? It's like pulling
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  out all of those things. So it's kind of in the
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  air. It's like creation is moving in the form
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  of things being realized. So it's like kind of
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  creation is creating. It's like when God set
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  the earth into motion, it just continued to create.
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  Whether it's through its creation or new things
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  over time. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's
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  so cool. So it's kind of like throwing something
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  out there and it gets big. It's kind of like
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  what sci -fi is doing. Yeah, yeah. Where they're
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  like, this is what I see the future developing
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  into. Right. Based on what I see around me now.
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  Right. But it gets me to the point now where
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  I'm like looking at everything and I'll see a
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  movie or a work of art or something like that.
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  I'm like, all right, what is true in this story?
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  Yeah. So like. Now, Luca has a lot of meaning
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  to it. They probably didn't intend for that on
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  the front end, but I'm sure that helped shape
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  a lot of the story, and the name is clearly intentional.
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  It's the title of the movie, and it's the guy's
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  name. So that was a main idea. Yeah, so someone
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  must have read that and been like, that'd be
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  cool to write a story about that. Yeah, it could
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  have been a pitch of what if the last... Like
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  the what if like as like they took like the evolution
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  concept of Cells coming out of the water. Yeah,
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  and they took that and went all right. Well,
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  what if Humanity was already there, but there
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  were some remnant of like the of last Organisms.
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  Yeah that had not fully converted yet. What would
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  that look like? And that's where you get sea
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  monsters. That makes sense. So then now there's
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  lore of sea monsters. And it's like, well, the
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  funny thing is there's lore in that little town,
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  but they're actually there. Those sea monsters
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  exist. And it's like, wait, what? So then you
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  go, how is, it's like the idea of, they say life
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  imitating art, but it's actually art imitating
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  life. That's why I think that even based on our
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  conversations, especially last week, or last
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  episode last week, last episode was about language
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  and how that shapes, it's basically our way of
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  how do we interpret what we experience. Essentially
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  that was the point of it. how our language shapes
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  how we interpret what we experience. And so art
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  is another language. I think by the, even with
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  music, we'll stick with art. It's like within
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  the different mediums. It's like there's different
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  languages to explain what you see or what you
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  experience. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So
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  like, I think, I think in general, one of the
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  things that like, as we're talking about myth
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  or even when you look at like lore and folklore
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  and all these different storylines. It's like,
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  well, there's something true in it. And I think
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  it's more interesting as you get older to look
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  for what is true in it and go, where does that
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  come from? And what were the original, was that
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  the main purpose of telling this story? Was like,
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  hey, I wanna get this story across. So let me
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  shape it in a way that's palatable and memorable.
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  Yeah, and memorable. Yeah. That's cool, I like
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  that. Actually, it's funny, I wanna say this
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  really quick because our martyr tape is Barnabas.
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  This is loosely related. I think it's still related
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  to our conversation now, which is making me think
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  about it. And so I don't know if I've actually
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  told you this or if you know this, but there
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  is a gospel of Barnabas. There's actually a lot
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  of gospels of different saints, we'll call them.
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  There's Pseudopigraphal. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Nice word. Thanks. That's a good word. I didn't
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  make it up. It came from somewhere. You could
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  have been like, I like it. It's Greek, I believe.
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  And so what's funny is with that is, so we see
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  that, we're like, oh, gospel according to Barnabas.
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  Well, we see Barnabas in the New Testament. He's
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  a significant figure. Yeah. And so shouldn't
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  we pay attention to that? And it's like, well,
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  we compare that to the other four gospels we
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  have in our canon. And so it's funny when we
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  Looking at okay. What is true and what is not
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  true right comparing it to? What else we have
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  true so in the gospel of Barnabas? There's one
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  thing in particular that I makes me laugh every
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  time I think about it So there's a section in
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  it might have been I don't know what chapter
• 22:20
  chapter 13 I'm making that up. I don't know somewhere
• 22:22
  in there specific where we see it says that Jesus
• 22:26
  hops on a boat in Galilee and sails to Nazareth
• 22:30
  That's where this one is yeah We mentioned that
• 22:35
  in the and it's funny and I like episode like
• 22:38
  five or something. Oh, did we okay? Okay? Yeah,
• 22:40
  the Matthew the one where we talked about the
• 22:43
  landscape of Nazareth, okay? That's right. Yeah.
• 22:45
  Yeah, you mentioned it offhand, but yeah, okay
• 22:47
  cool I couldn't remember if I had said it on
• 22:49
  the podcast So I want to make sure especially
• 22:50
  since we're doing Barnabas. Yeah, and it's funny
• 22:53
  It's like that's that's one of the things we
• 22:54
  look at stuff with a critical eye, right? Because
• 22:56
  for those who don't know Nazareth is a landlocked
• 23:00
  City yes town and there's no way you can sail
• 23:03
  to it, especially from Galilee No, because Galilee
• 23:06
  is on the eastern side. Yeah, Nazareth is across
• 23:11
  land To the like closer to the Mediterranean
• 23:14
  on the western side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the
• 23:16
  funny thing about that too is Galilee does have
• 23:20
  a river That flows in and out of it and it flows
• 23:23
  from the mountains because all rivers flow from
• 23:25
  mountains. Yeah Which is definitely an episode
• 23:30
  But the river that flows through Galilee is the
• 23:34
  Jordan River. And it flows down the Jordan Valley,
• 23:38
  which is the eastern border of Israel. And Nazareth
• 23:42
  is way over here. It's all the way over here.
• 23:45
  So that's an easy one for us to look at. Even
• 23:48
  when we're talking about Luca here, it's like
• 23:50
  things being drawn from reality. But it's like,
• 23:52
  OK, but is that real? Yeah, because Barnabas
• 23:55
  definitely would have been. Like have gone to
• 23:58
  them at to the Sea of Galilee. Yeah. Yeah Galilee
• 24:01
  gallery the Sea of Galilee But and he would have
• 24:07
  sailed on the sea. Yeah, but yeah also Sea of
• 24:11
  Galilee is closer to a lake Then you would imagine
• 24:16
  Yeah, anyway, I just wanted to make sure I mentioned
• 24:19
  that to you especially in what we're talking
• 24:21
  about cuz I thought it was I thought it was fun
• 24:22
  That is pretty fun. So Luca Comment below your
• 24:27
  favorite Disney movie You can include Pixar.
• 24:31
  I'll forgive you after they required Yeah, go
• 24:34
  look up when that was write that in there and
• 24:36
  then add your Pixar movie. Yeah, that's good.
• 24:38
  All right Ready, let's do it. Three two one All
• 24:42
  right, I had a warm up my snapper. Oh So I had
• 24:46
  an idea for this one. Yeah, so I have the basis
• 24:49
  of The music okay, but I felt like maybe we should
• 24:53
  with some framework write a song in real time.
• 24:57
  That's cool. Yeah. Because we haven't done that
• 24:59
  in a bit. I feel like we've come in more prepared.
• 25:01
  Yeah, we have. And I was thinking like, what's
• 25:04
  a way that we could come in prepared but still
• 25:06
  write something in real time? So I have like,
• 25:09
  I basically have the song that we're going to
• 25:11
  put the lyrics on. Oh, nice. But we'll write
• 25:14
  the lyrics in real time. OK. And then I'll figure
• 25:16
  out how to sing them. I love it. So we don't
• 25:20
  need to try and write lyrics. Let's just write.
• 25:24
  Keywords and phrases I like it that way. We don't
• 25:27
  spend a bunch of time being like well does this
• 25:29
  one rhyme with that one? I like this word better
• 25:31
  than yeah. Yeah, actually let me Yeah, so what
• 25:39
  do you want to start with That's a good question.
• 25:42
  I guess um Do you want to be topical of what
• 25:45
  we're talking about or I like do you want something
• 25:48
  out of the field so? Don't worry about chorus
• 25:53
  I'm just thinking about like theme overall. Yeah.
• 25:55
  Well, the chorus is gonna land, have to land
• 25:57
  in Martyrs Row. True. So how do we get to Martyrs
• 26:01
  Row? Yeah. Well, I think the last two that we've
• 26:05
  come in with have been like things we talk about.
• 26:08
  Yes, yeah. So I like moving in that direction.
• 26:12
  It's pretty cool. It honestly took us like 15
• 26:14
  episodes to kind of get to the like... maybe
• 26:18
  let's like now that we have this body of work
• 26:21
  what if we wrote songs that applied yeah well
• 26:24
  and it's a little bit like how does a tv show
• 26:27
  pilot episode have an intro video yeah i mean
• 26:30
  like how does it have a pre -roll it's like yeah
• 26:33
  that that doesn't come until a later episode
• 26:35
  well because they record many episodes yeah so
• 26:39
  maybe maybe like since we've done it now Maybe
• 26:43
  we just hit a bunch of topics and throw those
• 26:45
  keywords in. I like that. It can kind of be all
• 26:47
  over the place. Yeah, like we need to have wooden
• 26:49
  people with no souls in there. OK. Why don't
• 26:52
  we start with that? OK, I want to write it down.
• 26:55
  Yeah. So Paul is going to write that down. All
• 26:57
  right, dear listener, here we are writing a song
• 26:59
  together. Thank you for joining us. This is probably
• 27:01
  not going to make any sense, but we'll get there.
• 27:03
  I promise that there's at least one payoff. This
• 27:05
  is either interesting or not at all. Yeah. But
• 27:09
  we've said that about this podcast from the beginning.
• 27:11
  Yeah, that's true. So whoever wants to be here
• 27:13
  is already here. Yeah, true. Peter crucify upside
• 27:37
  down John almost buried alive not buried well
• 27:41
  boy like Steven rocks It doesn't make any sense
• 27:55
  out of context I actually don't mind it though.
• 27:59
  It's got awesome The funny thing is, I did realize
• 28:02
  that I'm gonna sing this different every single
• 28:04
  time. That's awesome. Well, I mean, maybe. Maybe
• 28:09
  not. Alright, so I'm just gonna read this exactly
• 28:13
  as it is. Just do it. Yeah, just do it. Peter
• 28:27
  crucified, upside down John almost boiled alive
• 28:33
  James the less, brains dashed out Paul in silence
• 28:38
  cried Paul got his head chopped off Dias beheaded,
• 28:56
  Philip crucified, Andrew crucified, Jude crucified
• 29:00
  Alright, we need more lyrics Paul says, cried,
• 29:06
  Paul got his head chopped off That's good, okay,
• 29:15
  let me write some more down. But keep the three
• 29:18
  together. I will, yeah. So the three crucified,
• 29:21
  move those down, and then write some more above
• 29:23
  those. Oh, okay. Let's write a little bit more
• 29:25
  above those. I'll save those for the end? Yeah,
• 29:27
  because I can actually go, I can actually go,
• 29:31
  yeah. I can actually go, Philip, Andrew, Drew,
• 29:37
  or Philip crucified, Andrew crucified, Drew crucified.
• 29:43
  And then go into it can be the pre -chorus. Yeah,
• 29:46
  so that'll be the pre -chorus You're not talking
• 29:50
  We're like genuinely just hanging out right now
• 29:53
  I'm gonna try to go we're gonna have to make
• 29:56
  this next segment short just for the people listening
• 29:58
  Here you entertain them. I'm gonna write these
• 30:01
  out real quick Okay, so like oh one of the things
• 30:05
  I was thinking about too is like as I'm singing
• 30:07
  that I was like this feels very like early REM
• 30:10
  which you know, I'm okay with so This is like
• 30:14
  songwriting process 101 But we're gonna try and
• 30:18
  do it in like five minutes. It's gonna end up
• 30:20
  being like ten though. Don't get too deep into
• 30:23
  that Paul That is hilarious that I just like
• 30:27
  Steven rocks Just he's on a vacation fire come
• 30:38
  around and talk it over You said entertain the
• 30:42
  people. Now this is just like an open mic. So
• 30:48
  this is a song that I really like. This is a
• 30:53
  story of a girl. Just get flagged all over the
• 30:56
  place because of all these songs. Alright. How
• 31:04
  many more do you need? How many more do you want?
• 31:05
  That's probably fine. Okay. I can honestly make
• 31:09
  the front part shorter too. but I mean honestly
• 31:12
  write as many as you can because we could just
• 31:14
  kind of you can just keep going with this that's
• 31:18
  true Mesopotamia I don't think I could sing it
• 31:28
  at this tempo Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia,
• 31:38
  Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia,
• 31:46
  Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia. What if I just did
• 31:49
  that for like five minutes while you're doing
• 31:50
  it? So the people that are only listening are
• 31:53
  like, why is he still doing that? Why? Like,
• 31:58
  yeah, five more minutes. In five more minutes,
• 32:02
  one hour later. Just to see what you would do
• 32:05
  with them. Okay, perfect. So you want me to do
• 32:07
  it raw again? Yeah, yeah, just go for it. Upside
• 32:27
  down, John almost buried alive James the last,
• 32:33
  brains dashed out Paul in silence cried Paul
• 32:40
  got his head chopped off, tires beheaded James
• 32:46
  the great, beheaded too, but Luke has sinned
• 32:51
  Luke was hanged? Oh, I like lost it for a second.
• 32:56
  Yeah, that's a lot of words. Well, what I need
• 32:58
  to do is, what we need to do is break these up.
• 33:01
  So like this doesn't need to be one, let's make
• 33:04
  it two verses with the pre -chorus at the end
• 33:07
  of each one. Paul and Silas cried was the end
• 33:09
  of your first. Yeah, that works, because then
• 33:15
  I can hit the pre -chorus there and then let's
• 33:16
  jump to the next one. Okay, which I guess would
• 33:19
  be here. Yeah, copy and paste that up. And then
• 33:21
  I'll, this is actually working out great. And
• 33:23
  then our bridge section is, um, Mesopotamia,
• 33:29
  Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia,
• 33:37
  Mesopotamia. You just go Jack Black on it? Well,
• 33:43
  they did write the perfect song. That's true.
• 33:46
  Unfortunately, they forgot it. They forgot it.
• 33:49
  That's a previous reference. I actually like
• 33:56
  that. I know, we could do that. A little mic
• 33:59
  stand slide. I like that you also don't know
• 34:03
  what my chorus is. I have no clue. The thing
• 34:04
  is, the further we get into this, the more this
• 34:07
  chorus is gonna pay off. I'm so excited. So I'm
• 34:09
  gonna sing it and not give you the hook. Okay.
• 34:13
  And then... And then once it's like, okay, this
• 34:15
  works, then I'll send it straight through and
• 34:17
  you'll get the hook. Okay, I'm excited. And we
• 34:20
  may have to do that full take twice, just because
• 34:22
  your reaction may ruin it. Okay, okay. Peter
• 34:43
  crucified, upside down John almost boiled alive
• 34:48
  James the less, brains dash out Paul in silent
• 34:54
  cry Philip crucified, Andrew crucified Jew is
• 35:02
  crucified, I mean Jew Paul got his head chopped
• 35:24
  off, Matthias beheaded, James was great. That's
• 35:30
  a lot of words. That one's really hard. That's
• 35:31
  a lot of words. Yeah. Should I say, do you mean
• 35:35
  just James? Well, it's like, is it Matthias?
• 35:40
  Yeah. Okay. That's almost the same as the pre
• 35:45
  -chorus. It's like Paul's head chopped off, Matthias
• 35:49
  beheaded, James beheaded. Beheaded too. Yeah.
• 35:53
  Let me try one more time, just that part. Okay.
• 35:59
  Paul got his head chopped off, Matthias too.
• 36:04
  James the Great was beheaded too. Almost. So,
• 36:09
  Paul got his Head chopped off, Matthias, James
• 36:14
  the Great was - Nope. No, the, uh, poor God is,
• 36:22
  head chopped off, Matthias. I wanna say Matthias,
• 36:27
  too. Uh, Matthias and James were - Matthias and
• 36:31
  James were beheaded, too. You really are forgetting
• 36:34
  that we're doing a podcast. Yeah, I am! I'm just
• 36:36
  in it. We're here for it. Try that. Matthias
• 36:42
  and James were beheaded too. Um, okay. Okay.
• 37:03
  Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Try and rewrite it like
• 37:06
  that. Okay. Dear listener, we are almost there.
• 37:09
  Hopefully you're enjoying this. We haven't done
• 37:11
  anything like this in a while. And the last time
• 37:13
  we did something like this, actually many times
• 37:16
  that we did something like this, it did not end
• 37:17
  well. Except for the 12, the 10 days of martyrdom.
• 37:22
  That one is iconic. I honestly, I don't know
• 37:28
  what we're gonna do with that one. I don't know
• 37:30
  if we can outshine that one. That one was magic.
• 37:36
  Oh. It's yeah, all right. Are we close so? Paul
• 37:40
  got his head chopped off with thias and James
• 37:45
  behead it to But Luke was hanged Barnabas died
• 37:52
  Everyone else they cried Yeah, there we go everyone
• 37:56
  else they cried they cried All right, I think
• 37:59
  I can get that one So let me do that through
• 38:02
  with the pre -chorus, and then I'll try and take
• 38:04
  the song from the top Paul got his head chopped
• 38:10
  off, Dias and James were beheaded too But Luke
• 38:16
  was hanged, Barnabas died, everyone else they
• 38:22
  cried Philip crucified, Andrew crucified, Jude
• 38:29
  he was also crucified Okay, well that'll be the
• 38:45
  bridge. I have a chorus hook. I just wanted to
• 38:47
  do it. Okay, you ready for the hook? I'm ready.
• 38:54
  I think we're there. Are you, so you're gonna
• 38:56
  do the, is it verse pre? After every pre -chorus,
• 39:00
  I'm gonna do a chorus. Okay, sick. Yeah. Okay,
• 39:03
  sick. So, okay, I think we have enough there
• 39:05
  that I can find my way through it. This is like,
• 39:08
  exciting. This is the longest song section we've
• 39:13
  done. We're actually writing it. Actually, to
• 39:15
  be honest with you, the 10 Days of Martyrdom
• 39:17
  might be longer. That one was a long one. Yeah,
• 39:19
  it was. But it kept getting funnier. I hope it
• 39:25
  was funny for everybody else. I hope so too.
• 39:27
  Otherwise, just us maniacally laughing by ourselves.
• 39:29
  Yeah, exactly. Let us know you laughed. Alright,
• 39:33
  you ready? Yeah. Okay. Steven rocks, Peter crucified
• 39:52
  Upside down, John almost boiled alive James the
• 39:57
  less, brains dashed out Paul and Silas cry Philip
• 40:06
  crucified and you crucified. Jude was also crucified.
• 40:18
  Don't you forget about me on martyr's row right
• 40:25
  now. Don't you forget about me on martyr's row
• 40:33
  right now. I almost went to the next one. I shouldn't
• 40:44
  have hold back enough, but I was like, I can't.
• 40:48
  Was that so worth it? That was such a good payoff.
• 40:53
  I wish I would have gotten through the whole
• 40:54
  thing. I should have just kept going. But I started
• 40:56
  getting flim in my throat. That was so good.
• 40:58
  Okay, here we go. Let's hit the whole thing.
• 41:02
  You're like, why does he keep doing that intro?
• 41:05
  And now I know. Steven rocks, Peter crucified.
• 41:16
  Upside down, John almost boiled alive. James
• 41:20
  Aless, brains dashed out. Paul and Silas cried.
• 41:28
  Phil the crucified, Andrew crucified. Jude was
• 41:33
  also crucified. Don't you forget about me I'm
• 41:46
  on this road right now Don't you forget about
• 41:52
  me Paul got his head chopped off, Matthias and
• 42:17
  James were beheaded too But Luke was hanged,
• 42:23
  Barnabas died, everyone else they cried Philip
• 42:30
  crucified, Andrew crucified, Jew was also crucified
• 42:37
  So Don't you forget about me On martyr's row
• 42:49
  right now Don't you forget about me No, no, no
• 42:58
  Don't you forget about me On martyr's row right
• 43:05
  now Don't you forget about me Na, na, na Na,
• 43:21
  na, na Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia Mesopotamia,
• 43:36
  Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 43:44
  Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 43:52
  Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 43:57
  Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Don't you
• 44:04
  forget about me On martyr's road Forget about
• 44:14
  me No, no, no Don't you Forget about me Our martyrs
• 44:25
  go right now Don't you Forget about me No, no,
• 44:37
  no Take me on, merciful take me on, merciful
• 44:41
  take me on Don't you forget about me on martyrs
• 44:58
  row right now Three two one Paul don't you ever
• 45:08
  forget about me Don't you do it don't don't don't
• 45:14
  do you miss me Is that our question again? No.
• 45:19
  I forgot the - Don't you. Miff me too much. Is
• 45:29
  that how this whole thing started? The myth series?
• 45:32
  I think that was - That was the second week?
• 45:34
  I think the second week. That makes sense. I
• 45:37
  think so. How many have we done? It doesn't matter.
• 45:39
  It's like our pastoral serve. Hopefully we'll
• 45:42
  wrap it up tonight. That's what we're aiming
• 45:44
  to do. Welcome to the last in our 17 part series.
• 45:50
  Myths part last. Part last, question mark. More
• 45:53
  people need to do that. Part last, maybe. Part
• 45:57
  last, part two. Yeah, and I know we'll come back
• 46:01
  to them, but we're hoping to be the last of our
• 46:06
  focus on it. Yeah, and I think that we'll continue
• 46:09
  going with... different like series pieces. Yeah.
• 46:13
  Cause it helps kind of build some framework.
• 46:15
  Absolutely. And also keep everything in a category.
• 46:18
  Yeah. Cause even, I mean, even with this, it
• 46:19
  is like a high level we've taken even with just
• 46:22
  myths. Yeah. Cause we could do a deep dive into
• 46:24
  each of the myths themselves. Right. And even
• 46:26
  the different ones that have developed over time
• 46:29
  in each culture. Yeah. And we're like, let's
• 46:31
  just take a high level of this and look at the
• 46:33
  overall picture. Right. Yeah. And like the deep
• 46:36
  dive stuff, that would be more fun with like
• 46:37
  a guest. Yeah, absolutely. Like let them deep
• 46:40
  dive into it. That'd be so fun. Because I feel
• 46:42
  like with the basis of our podcast, too, it is
• 46:45
  a little bit more like let's give framework.
• 46:49
  Yeah. So that way it's easier for us to dive
• 46:52
  into these ideas and connect stuff. And let people
• 46:54
  know, all right, this is worth spending time
• 46:58
  on, or this isn't. Yeah. And if I spend time
• 47:00
  on it, here's the framework to level it out.
• 47:03
  Yeah, so I can shape my thoughts. Which actually...
• 47:06
  is a great lead -in for where we're at here today.
• 47:09
  Perfect. Because I think where we're going to
• 47:12
  end, or where I'm going to be taking us. Everything
• 47:15
  starts where it ends? Yeah. Where I'm going to
• 47:18
  be trying to take us today on our episode is
• 47:21
  let's try to apply the framework that we've been
• 47:24
  developing. Let's do it. As we think about this.
• 47:26
  OK. OK, sweet. So creation, floods. And now we're
• 47:31
  at, well we did Babel, language diversity. Language
• 47:34
  diversity, that's right. And now we're at Knowledgebringer.
• 47:37
  So it is the fourth one. It's the fourth one.
• 47:39
  Okay. Yeah. That feels like a pretty complete
• 47:42
  package. Yeah, which honestly for everyone so
• 47:45
  far, for you hardcore Christians, you got fear
• 47:51
  in Christians. In the bro's face. In the bro's
• 47:54
  face. For you Christian bros out there. Just
• 48:00
  fireworks going off. All you heavy lifting Christian
• 48:02
  bros. That was not the right sound. No. I was
• 48:06
  like trying to do fireworks going off. And then
• 48:08
  I was like, I was going to do this. You're notorious
• 48:10
  for the wrong sound, for the wrong time. Wrong
• 48:14
  sound, wrong time. I got brain dumbness. It's
• 48:18
  a medical thing. Brain dumbness. It's a medical
• 48:21
  thing. Oh, dumbness. Oh, dumbness. You've done
• 48:26
  it again with your pen flute. Talk about pan
• 48:30
  flute. Oh Wow, why I don't know. Okay. I just
• 48:34
  feel like there's a lot in there Peter pan the
• 48:37
  villain of the story. Yeah the the lucid dreaming
• 48:42
  episode. Oh, yeah pan the God Pagan God that
• 48:46
  lulls you to sleep with us with his flute. Yeah,
• 48:49
  which actually we could talk about that at some
• 48:51
  point, but Peter pan He plays a flute doesn't
• 48:56
  we we're talking about Disney Yeah, we were.
• 48:59
  Full circle. We start where we end. So, knowledge
• 49:03
  bringer for you hardcore Christians out there.
• 49:06
  That's why we got there. I was trying to bring
• 49:08
  it back to little kid stuff. I'll find it. Sometimes.
• 49:14
  When we say knowledge bringer, that could be
• 49:17
  maybe like off -putting. A bringer of knowledge?
• 49:20
  It's just like, what do you mean by that? Yeah,
• 49:22
  true. Because I think the context we hear that
• 49:25
  in around like aliens. Oh, okay. You know what
• 49:28
  I mean? And then we're like, well, no, because
• 49:29
  God brought all knowledge to people. Yeah. And
• 49:31
  it's like, okay, cool. God -ledge. God -ledge.
• 49:34
  God -ledge. And so it's like, okay, let's go
• 49:37
  with that. But now let's look at other cultures
• 49:39
  and see, well, they have a story of, it's the
• 49:42
  question we were talking about at the beginning.
• 49:44
  Like, how do we know what we know? How did we
• 49:46
  figure this out? Because it's like, how do I
• 49:48
  know what I know? How do I? Explain to me. How
• 49:51
  do I know what I know? The things that I know,
• 49:55
  how do I know them? Tell me. So, other cultures
• 50:00
  - No really, tell me. Tell me, Paul. Tell me
• 50:02
  right now. The chicken! I'm the egg. I'm the
• 50:07
  egg. I'm the egg man. Alright, hardcore Christians,
• 50:11
  you still out there? Hopefully. Just bear with
• 50:14
  us here. I'm the walrus. Cuckoo coochoo. Bless
• 50:18
  you. Thanks. So other cultures wanna explain
• 50:25
  their, like they wanna figure this out too. So
• 50:27
  they have their explanation. For this is how
• 50:30
  we learned how to do stuff. Yeah, so like basically
• 50:35
  saying we didn't come up with this on our own.
• 50:38
  Someone brought this information to us. Almost
• 50:42
  every ancient culture, I say almost, but like
• 50:46
  I say almost because I don't know all the ancient
• 50:48
  cultures. Yeah, that's smart. But pretty much
• 50:51
  all ancient cultures. basically say that they
• 50:55
  didn't come up with it. Yeah, someone delivered
• 50:57
  this information to them. They taught them how
• 51:00
  to do it. I feel like that's important to say.
• 51:02
  It is, yeah. Because that's the gateway into,
• 51:04
  well, how many do we know about, and what did
• 51:08
  they say? Yeah. Right? But for all of you hardcore
• 51:11
  Christians out there, or actually mainly you,
• 51:17
  because the non -Christians are probably already...
• 51:20
  Like in pagan tradition, this is pretty common.
• 51:24
  Even on the other side, let's just take a stereotypical
• 51:28
  evolutionist. Okay. It's like, no, we just figured
• 51:31
  it out over time. What a stereotypical evolutionist.
• 51:33
  What a stereotypical evolutionist. What are you,
• 51:36
  Luca or something? What are you, Luca? And it's
• 51:38
  like, okay, you can say that, and maybe that's
• 51:41
  true, but... Not according to their myths. Like
• 51:45
  what their tradition teaches in these cultures
• 51:47
  say, no we didn't just keep dying until we figured
• 51:50
  it out. We actually were taught how to do this
• 51:52
  so we didn't just keep dying. Yeah and it's weird
• 51:55
  too like, and this is the last thing I'll say
• 51:56
  before we get into it, but it's like many generations
• 52:01
  later, is they almost like put that on the people
• 52:05
  that they came up with it. Like a good example
• 52:08
  of that is the Egyptians and the pyramids. Like
• 52:11
  it's really the later generation of Egyptians
• 52:13
  that's putting it on the ancient Egyptians that
• 52:16
  they came up with everything. But the ancient
• 52:19
  Egyptians don't say that. They kind of say that
• 52:22
  they found a lot of that stuff there. Which honestly
• 52:25
  is like, it's current to what's coming out right
• 52:28
  now. Right. like with the pyramid stuff, but
• 52:30
  we're not getting into that. But even then it's
• 52:33
  like, yeah, okay, so we're uncovering stuff now
• 52:35
  and we're realizing, oh, there's actually more
• 52:38
  to the story than we thought. But it's the story
• 52:40
  that they've been trying to tell us, the ancients
• 52:42
  have been telling us. Yeah, but it's almost like
• 52:44
  when we grew up in like the 90s and 2000s, it
• 52:49
  was like everyone was just trying to be like,
• 52:51
  history doesn't go that far back. Yeah. It's
• 52:55
  just it's actually just simple like these people
• 52:58
  are from here and they came up with everything
• 53:00
  that's from there Yeah, but that's actually not
• 53:03
  true. It's not true, but it's not just not true.
• 53:06
  They don't believe that We don't believe that,
• 53:09
  they don't believe that, but we're told that
• 53:11
  for some reason, we're teaching that for some
• 53:12
  reason. That knowledge stops with them, they
• 53:15
  came up with it because of the region that they're
• 53:17
  from. Not true, that's not part of their tradition.
• 53:22
  I'm from Ohio. Yes, you are. As we've said that.
• 53:26
  Way too many times. And we have the Super Mound
• 53:28
  in Ohio. And if you go there and you read and
• 53:33
  ask people, they'll be like, oh yeah, the natives.
• 53:35
  They are the ones who built that right then you
• 53:37
  talk to them like we didn't build that. No, it
• 53:39
  was here Yeah, they found it and we're like,
• 53:41
  no you built it, right? That's what I mean. No,
• 53:43
  we didn't That's what I mean. Yeah, it's like
• 53:46
  this weird thing where it's like native americans
• 53:48
  are like, no, we found this stuff Yeah, and then
• 53:51
  we built around it. Yeah, and that's a here.
• 53:53
  That's a perfect like uh example That we see
• 53:58
  with the egyptians in the pyramid. Yeah that
• 54:00
  it's like, oh well We are doing this to them.
• 54:02
  They're doing it to them. It's like it's happening
• 54:04
  everywhere So it's weird, it's like we don't,
• 54:08
  it's like we're trying to wipe away the past.
• 54:10
  Yeah, which is funny because even in the pyramids
• 54:12
  you're like, oh yeah, like the Israelite slaves
• 54:14
  built the pyramids. And we're like, well that
• 54:16
  doesn't really make any sense. Yeah, you're right,
• 54:18
  but it doesn't make sense, but that's what happens.
• 54:19
  But no, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, but
• 54:24
  then there's too much other stuff going on. There
• 54:26
  is, yeah. That's a whole side topic, honestly.
• 54:30
  Yeah, so everybody just leaves it alone. But
• 54:32
  yeah, so all that to say. what somebody has told
• 54:36
  you is the origin of an area or an object or
• 54:42
  a monolithic structure. If you actually look
• 54:45
  at that culture, the one that they're saying
• 54:47
  built it or designed it or created it, most of
• 54:51
  them will say this was here when we got here.
• 54:54
  Or they'll say what, Paul? Someone taught us.
• 54:59
  Someone taught us. I was like, oh, that's interesting.
• 55:02
  So actually, I'm actually gonna start with the
• 55:07
  Mesoamerican Aztec and Mayan. Perfect, love them.
• 55:09
  Because their version of this is probably the
• 55:12
  most, in my opinion, is the most prominent one.
• 55:14
  Okay. As far as people now might be more familiar
• 55:17
  with this than some of the others. A little closer
• 55:20
  in time, yeah. Yeah, and so these names might
• 55:22
  be familiar, which is Quetzalcoatl and Cucucan.
• 55:26
  Yeah. And so the first one is Aztec and Cucucan
• 55:30
  is Mayan. Cuckoo con. Cuckoo con. Cuckoo con.
• 55:33
  Hard words. Cuckoo con. Quetzalcoatl. I like
• 55:37
  that one. Yeah. I know that one. That's a fun
• 55:39
  one. But their stories are very similar, which
• 55:43
  is why they're kind of put together here. Kind
• 55:45
  of sounds like a duckling. Yeah. Like the...
• 55:49
  Which actually, funny you say that because they
• 55:51
  were feathered. That's right. But they were feathered
• 55:54
  serpent gods. Very different. Yeah. Who brought
• 55:58
  civilization, teaching humans agriculture and
• 56:02
  writing medicine and astronomy. They were serpent
• 56:04
  feather gods. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Quite a... Quite
• 56:10
  a... Adjectives, you know? And actually, interestingly
• 56:16
  enough... It's a little, like, foreshadowing.
• 56:20
  Okay. Didn't they have two different forms? That's
• 56:24
  a good question, actually. I don't know that
• 56:25
  off the top of my head. Okay. What's the foreshadowing?
• 56:28
  Um, Quetzalcoatl. He actually opposed human sacrifice.
• 56:32
  Oh, interesting. Which is interesting. Yeah.
• 56:34
  We know somebody that did that. Yeah. Not personally.
• 56:38
  I do. You know somebody personally? Yeah, Jesus
• 56:41
  Christ. Oh. My Lord and Savior. Do you have a
• 56:47
  minute? I do know him. I do know him personally
• 56:52
  as well. So I actually had this pulled up, which
• 56:56
  is weird. Because I didn't know you were going
• 56:59
  to go to that. Oh, really? Yeah. Keep going.
• 57:05
  I'll find it. Yeah. So I'm going to jump all
• 57:07
  the way over to our favorite, Mesopotamia. Oh,
• 57:09
  wait. But these are connected. Oh, you got it.
• 57:11
  OK. Oh, and with Mesopotamia, which you have?
• 57:15
  Oh, perfect. That's even better. So I'll do me
• 57:19
  a read this, or are you ready? No, go ahead.
• 57:21
  OK. So Enki, who we've talked about in the past,
• 57:25
  he was the one who warned Unapishtim about the
• 57:29
  flood that Enlil was sending. And so Enki was
• 57:34
  the god of wisdom, magic, and water, often depicted
• 57:38
  with flowing rivers and fish. He gifted humanity
• 57:41
  with knowledge of irrigation, literacy, and divine
• 57:45
  laws. So what's interesting about this as well
• 57:47
  is Enki was not the highest god. Right. He was
• 57:52
  a lower god, but he challenged and defiled Enlil,
• 57:56
  who was a higher god than him. Right. Which is
• 57:58
  why Enlil was the one who sent the flood, according
• 58:01
  to the flood myth. Yeah. And Enki was the one
• 58:03
  who kind of thwarted that by allowing Undepishtim
• 58:06
  to survive. Yeah. And Mesopotamia is that region
• 58:10
  around modern day Turkey. Yes. It's where, like...
• 58:15
  A ton of stuff happened. We talked about that
• 58:17
  a lot more on the previous episode. But, so going
• 58:20
  back to Quetzalcolateral, however you say it,
• 58:24
  it says he embodied, or it embodied duality,
• 58:29
  symbolizing both the physical aspect of the serpent
• 58:32
  and the spiritual aspect of the feathered bird.
• 58:36
  So both of those. So the serpent feathered bird,
• 58:40
  the serpent was the physical aspect. The spiritual
• 58:43
  aspect was the feathered bird. So it was these
• 58:45
  that's interesting Yeah, because it was this
• 58:48
  it was like a physical and spiritual manifestation
• 58:51
  that were Blended or okay. Yeah What do I want
• 58:58
  to say when two things come together? Blended
• 59:03
  yeah a fusion That's something more menacing.
• 59:08
  But yeah, so that's in lighting but keep going
• 59:13
  Does it give a physical, is it not inky? Is it
• 59:19
  inky? What's the other one? Enlil. Enlil. Does
• 59:23
  it give physical descriptions of them? It doesn't,
• 59:26
  but we have depictions of them. I don't have
• 59:28
  one written down. And you've seen a lot of Mesopotamian...
• 59:34
  Drawings or sculptures. It's got those they felt
• 59:36
  like there's a long curly beards. Oh, yeah It's
• 59:39
  like he looks like that like these guys usually
• 59:41
  look more human, right? and so the ones that
• 59:45
  we really see with kind of like wild features
• 59:48
  is We'll see it in like Greece or not Greece.
• 59:54
  Sorry like Egyptian West African. Yeah, I'm obviously
• 59:58
  with the Mesoamerican Yeah, cuz the Mesoamerican
• 1:00:00
  they were all around serpent. Yes. And yeah,
• 1:00:03
  yeah I mean, and they, a lot of their temples
• 1:00:06
  had serpents leading the way up and down the
• 1:00:11
  top and bottom of their temples. Yeah, and you
• 1:00:12
  even see that in North America, like with what
• 1:00:14
  you're talking about with Ohio, like the serpent
• 1:00:16
  mound, like the serpent is a specific thing.
• 1:00:19
  The spiral of the serpent mounds. Yeah, and they're
• 1:00:22
  all orientated a certain way. Right, based on
• 1:00:25
  stars and alignment. Yes, which is crazy stuff.
• 1:00:29
  And it's a whole other topic. It is, yeah. But
• 1:00:33
  okay, so actually speaking, I'm actually going
• 1:00:35
  to jump to Greece here real quick. Okay. So that's
• 1:00:38
  the story of Prometheus, which is also pretty
• 1:00:40
  common for people. You're pretty familiar. Mainly
• 1:00:44
  because of Marvel. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He stole
• 1:00:48
  fire from Mount Olympus and gave it to humanity,
• 1:00:50
  symbolizing enlightenment and technology. As
• 1:00:53
  punishment, Zeus chained Prometheus to a rock
• 1:00:56
  where an eagle ate his liver daily. And that's
• 1:01:00
  where every day his liver would regenerate so
• 1:01:02
  the eagle could keep eating it. So it's like
• 1:01:05
  this eternal punishment. But what's interesting
• 1:01:08
  is that, actually I'm gonna read this next one
• 1:01:14
  first before I say what I was about to say. I
• 1:01:16
  wanna tie it in. So we have another one which
• 1:01:18
  is West African, or West Africa. The Nomo were
• 1:01:22
  amphibious fish -like beings sent by the supreme
• 1:01:25
  god Amma to bring order and knowledge to humanity.
• 1:01:29
  They taught the Dogon people agriculture, weaving,
• 1:01:33
  and language, and are central to the tribe's
• 1:01:37
  complex cosmology. And so what's interesting
• 1:01:40
  is so far we see what they bring to them. There's
• 1:01:43
  a lot around agriculture, literacy, or writing,
• 1:01:50
  and some understanding of the stars. Yeah, that
• 1:01:53
  makes sense. It's like those seem to be three,
• 1:01:55
  like, yes, central themes to a lot of these.
• 1:01:58
  Well, it's interesting. Wait. Yes. So, because
• 1:02:02
  this was the other part of the, this, like, I
• 1:02:04
  had only looked this guy up before, because I
• 1:02:06
  was like, I feel like, like, when we talk about
• 1:02:09
  this, I feel like this guy, like, what was that
• 1:02:12
  guy's name? But it says Quetzalcoatl. Quetzalcoatl?
• 1:02:16
  Quetzalcoatl. It kind of sounds like a duck,
• 1:02:19
  honestly. Quetzalcoatl? It does. It says, uh,
• 1:02:25
  he was the god of wind, learning, and culture,
• 1:02:31
  which probably agriculture as well, but culture
• 1:02:34
  like, yeah, anyways, civilization and was associated
• 1:02:37
  with the dawn and the planet Venus. Oh, that's
• 1:02:42
  fascinating. Yeah, it is. That's very interesting.
• 1:02:44
  So like that, that's what made me go, Oh, I need
• 1:02:46
  to go back and read that again because that's
• 1:02:48
  Aztec, right? Yeah. Um, so like, Yeah, so that
• 1:02:52
  one specific to learning, but also associated
• 1:02:57
  with the wind, which is interesting. And then
• 1:03:00
  also directly associated with Venus. Yeah. So
• 1:03:06
  like you were saying, because a lot of them have
• 1:03:09
  some astrological connection. Yes. Yeah, there's
• 1:03:12
  some, and it's interesting, because even then,
• 1:03:15
  we see a lot of connections to water. There's
• 1:03:18
  some kind of element, as well. There's some kind
• 1:03:20
  of elemental side to them. That's true. Yeah,
• 1:03:22
  and I think that's a very fascinating thing.
• 1:03:24
  It is. And what's fascinating so far, too, is
• 1:03:29
  I only brought this up so far with the creek.
• 1:03:31
  Raya. There's a Disney movie called Raya. It's
• 1:03:40
  all about dragons and the dragons can play with
• 1:03:43
  water like they can make it rain or not really
• 1:03:46
  and they like also have these like it's this
• 1:03:50
  whole thing that They have to revive the dragons
• 1:03:54
  because the dragons were the protectors have
• 1:03:56
  been oh And all the dragons are in stone Interesting
• 1:04:01
  and so they have to revive the dragons to save
• 1:04:03
  the humans because the dragons Sacrificed themselves
• 1:04:07
  to but hmm anyways the dragons in this movie
• 1:04:11
  Where they did a lot with rain like they could
• 1:04:15
  make it rain and then they would like run on
• 1:04:17
  the rain. Oh, whoa, and they were dragons which
• 1:04:21
  That was gonna spiral me. I was like, let me
• 1:04:23
  let me hold myself back Yeah, cuz even the idea
• 1:04:25
  of like what is a dragon and it's in its symbolism
• 1:04:29
  throughout cultures Yeah, that's an interesting
• 1:04:32
  well and these dragons The dragons in this movie
• 1:04:36
  are more would be more Asian dragons. Yeah more
• 1:04:40
  the serpent like yeah Yeah, so which is the traditional
• 1:04:43
  view of what they looked like right? Yeah Yeah,
• 1:04:46
  just a medieval dragon. We don't really think
• 1:04:47
  of is kind of like a newer like a dinosaur Yeah,
• 1:04:51
  it's kind of a newer mix Yeah, we've created
• 1:04:53
  but I wanted to bring that up because I feel
• 1:04:55
  like all these things end up connecting No, they
• 1:04:57
  really do I mean cuz that's yeah, that's the
• 1:04:59
  other things like when we look at like the symbolism
• 1:05:03
  through all these, because sometimes it's like,
• 1:05:04
  oh, like the African one, it's like, oh, this
• 1:05:06
  amphibious fish -like thing. And it's like, oh,
• 1:05:08
  we actually see that in the Mesopotamian one
• 1:05:10
  as well, where he's the god of water, and he's
• 1:05:13
  normally depicted with fish, or like a fish.
• 1:05:18
  And then it's like, oh, we see these other guys
• 1:05:20
  that came out of the water, and they were feathered
• 1:05:22
  serpents. So it's like, this... Lot of weird
• 1:05:26
  stuff. Yeah, the elements and the yeah the connection
• 1:05:29
  to the stars and it's like there are those connections
• 1:05:31
  But again, it's like depending on the culture
• 1:05:34
  in their language and how what they deem important
• 1:05:36
  and not important Yeah changes how they view
• 1:05:39
  what these things look like Yeah, and and just
• 1:05:43
  to remind you guys why we're talking about all
• 1:05:45
  these things. Oh, yeah, fair they were all knowledge
• 1:05:47
  bringers or Associated with things like learning
• 1:05:51
  or culture. Yeah, or like agriculture It was
• 1:05:55
  the way that, it was the tradition of the people
• 1:05:58
  that these beings taught them what they know.
• 1:06:03
  Yeah, and it's interesting so far, because we'll
• 1:06:06
  continue to see this theme here, is that the
• 1:06:09
  stuff that was brought was very similar, and
• 1:06:13
  it was the fact that something brought it. Right.
• 1:06:15
  Someone else brought it. Yeah, something was
• 1:06:17
  brought to them by something. Yeah, and that
• 1:06:19
  something is divine. Right. It's like, oh, there's
• 1:06:22
  something that is divine or supernatural. that
• 1:06:25
  brings knowledge, but it brings the same knowledge
• 1:06:28
  to everybody. So that's fascinating. What was
• 1:06:32
  the Egyptian one? So the Egyptian one, and this
• 1:06:34
  one's actually a little bit more rare. And the
• 1:06:37
  reason why it's rare is because in these other
• 1:06:40
  myths, the one who brings knowledge is typically
• 1:06:44
  punished in some way, or is not looked upon well.
• 1:06:49
  So even for the Mesopotamian one, Enki is actually,
• 1:06:53
  not in the good graces for giving humanity this
• 1:06:57
  stuff. But through diplomacy, he's able to weasel
• 1:07:01
  his way out. Prometheus is the only one that
• 1:07:03
  directly is like, yeah, you're getting chained
• 1:07:05
  up, bro. And these other ones, sometimes it's
• 1:07:08
  even a group of gods. Sometimes it's just one
• 1:07:11
  specific being that brings. But normally they're
• 1:07:15
  not looked upon well for having given humanity
• 1:07:18
  agriculture and cosmology and all this. except
• 1:07:22
  for the Egyptian one, which is Thoth. And so
• 1:07:26
  he was actually rewarded for giving humanity,
• 1:07:29
  wisdom, and knowledge. T -H -O -T -H. Yes. Thoth.
• 1:07:33
  Thoth. Weird. Yeah. Weird. And so he's the Ibis
• 1:07:38
  -headed god of wisdom, created writing, which
• 1:07:41
  is their hieroglyphs, and granted knowledge of
• 1:07:44
  astronomy, medicine, and law. According to legend,
• 1:07:47
  the Book of Thoth contained the secrets to the
• 1:07:49
  universe, but reading it could drive a person
• 1:07:52
  mad or grant them immense power. Okay, that's
• 1:07:58
  interesting. Yeah, especially in Egypt. Yeah,
• 1:08:02
  what I find fascinating about that is there does
• 1:08:05
  seem to be this element to it. It's like, okay,
• 1:08:09
  so even within that, it's like, okay, here's
• 1:08:12
  a book that has this It's supreme knowledge in
• 1:08:15
  it right and it'll either drive you insane. Yeah,
• 1:08:18
  or you'll become too powerful Yeah, and so it's
• 1:08:22
  like something that is dangerous to people right
• 1:08:25
  it's information that we weren't supposed to
• 1:08:27
  have Yeah, and we actually see that because in
• 1:08:29
  these other myths where the God who gives knowledge
• 1:08:33
  Yeah, isn't looked upon well. Yeah, it's like
• 1:08:36
  well It's because they the other gods don't want
• 1:08:38
  humanity to have what they gave sure yeah, and
• 1:08:41
  I feel like it's important to note that you might
• 1:08:45
  be like, well, they just made this stuff up.
• 1:08:48
  They needed something to point it at. And you
• 1:08:51
  go, why would they need something to point it
• 1:08:53
  at? First of all, because second of all, humans
• 1:08:57
  have massive egos. They always have. And so if
• 1:09:02
  a guy came up with the hieroglyphs in Egypt.
• 1:09:07
  I would be writing my name everywhere. Of course.
• 1:09:10
  It's like, I came up with your language, bow
• 1:09:13
  at my feet. And the thing is, that's where you
• 1:09:16
  have, the people who disseminate the knowledge
• 1:09:21
  out, a lot of times they were seen as gods. The
• 1:09:25
  people themselves. But they don't claim to have
• 1:09:29
  originated any of that stuff. And that's the
• 1:09:31
  other thing that I think counties even, the more
• 1:09:34
  naturalistic view is like, well yeah, some guy
• 1:09:36
  probably did, and this Thoth guy, he's... just
• 1:09:39
  a human being who they elevated. It's like, yeah,
• 1:09:42
  you can say that except for the fact that this
• 1:09:44
  happened in every culture. Yeah, and it's all
• 1:09:47
  high priest stuff. It's stuff where it's like
• 1:09:51
  this person is a representative or a vessel by
• 1:09:55
  which God or gods or beings that are not supposed
• 1:10:00
  to give information are pushing it through. This
• 1:10:04
  individual or these individuals and they're giving
• 1:10:07
  out information. That's within the same categories
• 1:10:09
  Right to every culture like every myth is saying
• 1:10:12
  yeah We knew how to we figured how to do these
• 1:10:14
  few things right because this one God gave it
• 1:10:16
  to us Yeah, exactly and like that's the same
• 1:10:18
  story throughout these these different nations
• 1:10:20
  Yeah, that are again like we said we've been
• 1:10:23
  saying it's like they're isolated from each other
• 1:10:25
  and separated by language and culture And yet
• 1:10:28
  they have the same story. Yeah, it's fascinating
• 1:10:30
  that they're punished for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
• 1:10:34
  So I wanna spend a little bit of time on this,
• 1:10:37
  which is the Indian one. I dove into this one
• 1:10:39
  a little bit more, because it jumped out at me
• 1:10:42
  more evidently than some of these others. It's
• 1:10:44
  not that I cherry picked it, I just think it's
• 1:10:47
  the most obvious for the point that I'm making
• 1:10:49
  here. And so they actually have several, like
• 1:10:53
  many cultures, they actually have several versions
• 1:10:55
  of this story, and they do change and develop
• 1:10:58
  over time. So it starts off with, and this is,
• 1:11:02
  the earliest, which is like 1500 BC to 1000 BC.
• 1:11:05
  Okay. Before zero. Yes. Before Christ. Before
• 1:11:10
  zero. So to put it in perspective, taking the
• 1:11:14
  traditional timeline, biblical timeline view,
• 1:11:17
  this would be 1500 BC is like 700 years after
• 1:11:21
  the flood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the flood
• 1:11:24
  was like, they say it's like 2300 BC. Okay. Somewhere
• 1:11:28
  in that area. So this is most likely a little
• 1:11:32
  bit after the Babel incident. Where then people
• 1:11:36
  have time to go off into their own place and
• 1:11:39
  settle down. Yeah, gotcha. So at that point,
• 1:11:42
  between this 500 year period, their knowledge
• 1:11:46
  bringer myth, which was oral tradition, was Brahma,
• 1:11:51
  who's the creator god. That he was the one who
• 1:11:54
  granted wisdom and granted knowledge and information
• 1:11:56
  to everybody. Got it. So he's the one who originated
• 1:11:59
  that. So he's their knowledge bringer. Yeah,
• 1:12:01
  but then it changes For the next so from like
• 1:12:05
  1000 BC or yeah 1000 BC to 500 BC. Okay about
• 1:12:09
  it switches to Sara Swati who is the goddess
• 1:12:14
  of wisdom Sara Swati Sara Swati, I don't know
• 1:12:18
  how to speak. I like that And so she they are
• 1:12:23
  like, oh we can gain wisdom and knowledge and
• 1:12:25
  all this from her through meditation So if we
• 1:12:30
  meditate and we do that to her, then we can learn
• 1:12:33
  this stuff. So it's like now she's the one who
• 1:12:36
  bears the knowledge and gives it to us. It's
• 1:12:38
  no longer the creator, it's this other god. They
• 1:12:41
  say that there are deep forms of meditation that
• 1:12:46
  can invoke internal, biological, what's the word
• 1:12:56
  for it? Stuff like dopamine. What is that? Just
• 1:13:00
  like chemicals. Like a chemical reaction? Yeah
• 1:13:03
  just like it can induce like really deep meditation
• 1:13:07
  can induce things that that put you on a what
• 1:13:12
  they would what new age would call a higher plane.
• 1:13:15
  Yeah. And can be similar to things like Hiawaska
• 1:13:20
  trips. Yeah. Like that's actually legitimate
• 1:13:22
  that like like particularly eastern Monks mm
• 1:13:27
  -hmm that meditate in very harsh conditions.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah are putting their bodies in a in a state
• 1:13:33
  that Their meditation can get them to a place
• 1:13:37
  that psychedelic drugs also can get you to yeah,
• 1:13:40
  so actually I will I'm gonna sidetrack myself
• 1:13:43
  down the path that you're going a little bit,
• 1:13:45
  okay, and it's with that this is It has to do
• 1:13:49
  with the sober mindedness sure, and I think that's
• 1:13:52
  the that's the thing that we need to be careful
• 1:13:55
  of, especially when we see stuff like this through
• 1:13:57
  meditation. It's like, well, why is that style,
• 1:14:03
  because I have to also say that, that style of
• 1:14:06
  meditation of emptying your mind, well, why is
• 1:14:10
  that just as bad as hallucinogenic drugs and
• 1:14:15
  stuff that lowers our inhibitions? And it's like,
• 1:14:18
  well, that's why. because what happens is there
• 1:14:21
  are barriers that keep us sober minded, and they
• 1:14:27
  keep us grounded into our world. And so when
• 1:14:31
  we relax our brain, when we remove those barriers,
• 1:14:35
  then we open ourselves up to a supernatural experience
• 1:14:39
  potentially, which is something we're not supposed
• 1:14:41
  to do. Yeah, so 1 Peter 5, 6 says, humble yourselves.
• 1:14:46
  Therefore under the mighty hand of God so that
• 1:14:49
  at the proper time he may exalt you Casting all
• 1:14:52
  your anxieties on him because he cares for you
• 1:14:54
  So turning your attention and focus on him and
• 1:14:57
  essentially meditating on the Lord humbling yourself
• 1:15:00
  before him and be sober minded It's cool that
• 1:15:03
  it says that because it what it's expressing
• 1:15:05
  Is to essentially meditate on the Lord, but do
• 1:15:11
  it sober minded be watchful because your adversary,
• 1:15:15
  the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion
• 1:15:17
  seeking someone to devour. And that comes after
• 1:15:21
  saying being sober -minded. So if you're not
• 1:15:23
  sober -minded in meditation, but you're using
• 1:15:26
  something, you're using something secondary that
• 1:15:32
  would alter your cognition, then in that, it
• 1:15:39
  says your adversary, the devil, is watching for
• 1:15:43
  that, it is gonna pounce on you like a lion.
• 1:15:47
  So as soon as you let go of your cognition and
• 1:15:52
  you use those substances, the devil is waiting
• 1:15:56
  to jump on you, is what 1 Peter says. I think
• 1:16:00
  it's important to say as well, because we haven't
• 1:16:02
  really talked about a lot of these more new age.
• 1:16:05
  Topics and experiences because we just haven't
• 1:16:08
  we haven't been there. Yeah, um, and this kind
• 1:16:10
  of is Getting to it. Yeah. This is like the origins.
• 1:16:14
  Yeah of what would be modern day new age. Yes
• 1:16:17
  Yeah, and I I guess I I just want to say quickly
• 1:16:22
  on that until we we come back into our topic
• 1:16:24
  here is um It's like it's important to realize
• 1:16:28
  like this is a real thing. Yeah, it's not like
• 1:16:31
  That wasn't just written in scripture to be like
• 1:16:33
  yeah, so like this is made up, but you should
• 1:16:35
  you know be sober minded right and it's like
• 1:16:37
  no like these are real things and real experiences
• 1:16:40
  that people go through yeah and it's important
• 1:16:42
  for us like there are real consequences if we
• 1:16:44
  don't listen for sure and if we're not vigilant
• 1:16:47
  yeah um so yeah that's cool and i think we actually
• 1:16:52
  it actually ties right back into this because
• 1:16:54
  this is what we see here so it's like so what's
• 1:16:56
  happening is there originally it's like okay
• 1:16:59
  let's get our knowledge from the creator yeah
• 1:17:02
  from as they would call the brahma And then they
• 1:17:05
  go, oh, you know what, actually, no, let's get
• 1:17:07
  our knowledge from a lesser goddess, not the
• 1:17:11
  creator. Let's get it from the goddess of wisdom,
• 1:17:13
  as we're calling her. And then what do we see
• 1:17:15
  next over the next about 800 years? This is when
• 1:17:20
  we have Buddha, when he starts to emerge. And
• 1:17:24
  what is his response to these 500 previous years
• 1:17:28
  of let's get our knowledge from something other
• 1:17:30
  than the creator? It's no actually you can discover
• 1:17:34
  enlightenment yourself through self -actualization
• 1:17:37
  through aestheticism aesthetic aestheticism Close
• 1:17:41
  what's the word? I don't know how to pronounce
• 1:17:43
  it basically through extreme self -discipline
• 1:17:47
  and Like harsh condition like think of like a
• 1:17:50
  isolated monk. Yeah. Yeah, like put yourself
• 1:17:52
  through these extreme Situations that we can
• 1:17:55
  self -actualize right because you're the one
• 1:17:58
  who has the knowledge and we don't need these
• 1:18:01
  other things anymore. You have it within you.
• 1:18:04
  Yeah, which is a, I went to a word I don't want
• 1:18:09
  to say, a falsifying or an imitation of where
• 1:18:19
  Paul talks about, the apostle Paul, talks about
• 1:18:23
  the suffering. leads to perseverance. And those
• 1:18:29
  who persevere to the end will be saved. And instead,
• 1:18:34
  Buddha is basically saying, in and of yourself,
• 1:18:40
  you yourself can put yourself into suffering.
• 1:18:44
  So put your body, put yourself into positions
• 1:18:50
  of suffering. So cause suffering to yourself.
• 1:18:53
  In order to essentially, He doesn't use this
• 1:18:57
  language, but I'll use Christian language. Put
• 1:19:00
  your flesh down. Yes, yeah. Or subdue your physical
• 1:19:04
  body in order to reach states of enlightenment.
• 1:19:08
  Yeah, well, so you can focus on your spiritual.
• 1:19:11
  Right. Because it's that... It's almost like
• 1:19:13
  leave the physical into the spiritual. Yeah.
• 1:19:15
  And I think that's the danger, again, going back
• 1:19:18
  to New Age, in that teaching is we are soul and
• 1:19:22
  body. Right. And so if we neglect one... where
• 1:19:26
  we set ourselves up to be in a bad position.
• 1:19:29
  And I think that's another way of saying what
• 1:19:32
  we've been saying these past 17 episodes is...
• 1:19:38
  If we focus solely, or the beginning of this
• 1:19:41
  myth series, if we focus solely on the natural
• 1:19:43
  side, we miss the spiritual. If we focus solely
• 1:19:46
  on the spiritual, we miss the natural. And we
• 1:19:48
  deny a part of ourselves. And if you step into
• 1:19:51
  the spiritual space by putting your body through
• 1:19:54
  suffering without the armor of God, then your
• 1:20:00
  adversary, the devil, is waiting like a prowling
• 1:20:03
  lion. So that's a problem. It's like going into
• 1:20:09
  the ocean to fight a shark. It's like, you're
• 1:20:11
  gonna lose every time. Yeah, unless you're armored
• 1:20:14
  up. Yeah, because you're in his domain. You're
• 1:20:16
  not supposed to be there. Yeah. You don't go
• 1:20:18
  there in your own terms. And the mistake is people
• 1:20:20
  going there thinking that they're reaching enlightenment,
• 1:20:24
  or they're going there thinking that maybe this
• 1:20:27
  doesn't exist, but maybe it'll make my life better
• 1:20:29
  somehow. Yeah. And then what are they doing at
• 1:20:32
  that point? They're receiving knowledge. But
• 1:20:35
  does the knowledge bring life or does it bring
• 1:20:38
  death and that's that's exactly the question.
• 1:20:40
  Yeah, yeah and Well, yeah, so moving on from
• 1:20:44
  then because we see in these next few years and
• 1:20:45
  actually it kind of sits there for a while Yeah
• 1:20:48
  within these these beliefs and ideas where it
• 1:20:52
  kind of switches between these teachings, but
• 1:20:55
  So we see like a reemergence of Saraswati the
• 1:20:58
  goddess of wisdom. I don't know how to actually
• 1:21:01
  pronounce it, so I just did my best. It's funny
• 1:21:03
  that it goes back and forth. Like a guy shows
• 1:21:06
  up and goes, I don't listen to the lady. And
• 1:21:10
  they're like, let's listen to her a little bit.
• 1:21:12
  But what changes is how they approach her. Because
• 1:21:15
  it's like, oh no, there is a higher level that
• 1:21:17
  I can reach. It's on the other side of Buddha.
• 1:21:20
  Yeah, and I can start to do that through self
• 1:21:22
  -actualization, but it... leads me to this. And
• 1:21:25
  then we see through, there's a group of saints
• 1:21:27
  that pop up. And then even now, it's like human
• 1:21:30
  and divine sources. So it's like, oh, you can
• 1:21:33
  find this higher plane. You can learn this knowledge
• 1:21:38
  through, not through this extreme discipline
• 1:21:42
  anymore, but you can do it through mantras, through
• 1:21:44
  meditation, through yoga. And it's a mixture
• 1:21:48
  of human and divine. So it's like, Buddha's like,
• 1:21:51
  it's only human. And then it's like, no, no,
• 1:21:53
  it's actually divine. It's like, oh, it's actually
• 1:21:55
  both. We can learn both. Yeah. So it's kind of
• 1:21:57
  this remixing of belief in there. But then it
• 1:22:02
  softens up a little bit. You can just do yoga
• 1:22:04
  and reach it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So why
• 1:22:08
  do, like, that specifically, why do I bring all
• 1:22:11
  that up? Why do you bring that up, Paul? That's
• 1:22:13
  a good question. Yes. That's the title. Why do
• 1:22:17
  you bring this up? Paul, why do you bring this
• 1:22:20
  up? Well, especially because, so we're talking
• 1:22:22
  about knowledge bringers. And in this, we're
• 1:22:24
  kind of talking about where the knowledge bringer
• 1:22:27
  myth originated in India, and then how it evolved
• 1:22:30
  over time. And the reason why I wanted to focus
• 1:22:33
  on that is because the one myth that's missing
• 1:22:35
  in here that I haven't brought up yet is where's
• 1:22:38
  the Hebrew myth? I was wondering. Because we've
• 1:22:40
  been starting with the Hebrew myth. Yeah, and
• 1:22:42
  I was wondering if you'd notice that. I intentionally
• 1:22:45
  left it out. And you know what's funny is because
• 1:22:47
  - That's why I kept feeling like I needed to
• 1:22:49
  insert some Bible in there. Yeah. Which I'm glad
• 1:22:52
  you did. I'm very glad you did. And so this might
• 1:22:57
  be a weird question for people to think about.
• 1:22:59
  It might take people off guard. Because honestly,
• 1:23:01
  when I think about it, when someone says, what's
• 1:23:03
  the Bible knowledge bringer myth? Or what's the
• 1:23:07
  Hebrew knowledge bringer myth? Are we about to
• 1:23:08
  start a whole new episode? I'd be like, how much
• 1:23:11
  time do we have? Are you asking me? Yeah. Well,
• 1:23:17
  this very well could, and I kind of want to use
• 1:23:18
  this as a launching point. Okay. Let's do that.
• 1:23:22
  But what I will say is the Bible not only has
• 1:23:25
  a knowledge -bringer myth, but it has three that
• 1:23:27
  I can identify. Okay. Are you waiting for me
• 1:23:32
  to... Can I say them? I'm not sure if I should
• 1:23:36
  be wrapping up or just kind of get through, not
• 1:23:39
  speed through this, but... Yeah, I think we should
• 1:23:41
  wrap it up. Okay, yeah, let me let me say this
• 1:23:44
  to tease okay, and then kind of set up where
• 1:23:47
  we're I think we'll probably end up going Yeah,
• 1:23:49
  cuz in some ways I do want to I do want to wrap
• 1:23:51
  up our myth side here Yeah, and so let's wrap
• 1:23:53
  it up by leading into something cool. Perfect.
• 1:23:56
  Let's do it. Okay, cool so The first the first
• 1:24:01
  knowledge bringer myth that we see yeah in creation
• 1:24:06
  is the creation of man when God then comes down
• 1:24:09
  and him and Adam create together. And we see
• 1:24:14
  Adam and God walking, sorry, four, four myths.
• 1:24:18
  I'm adding that one in now. Or just another one.
• 1:24:24
  So it's like, well what happened there? And it's
• 1:24:26
  like, yes, this is a little bit speculative,
• 1:24:28
  but I don't think it's that far out of the realm
• 1:24:30
  of possibility. When it's like if Adam and God
• 1:24:32
  are walking in the garden together, like what
• 1:24:34
  are they doing, what are they talking about?
• 1:24:36
  Where do you know that they created together?
• 1:24:38
  It's like why would it be out of the realm of
• 1:24:41
  possibility that him and God was teaching him
• 1:24:45
  things? I mean like, hey I created you to take
• 1:24:48
  care of this garden. Now let me show you how
• 1:24:50
  to do agriculture. Let me show you how to steward
• 1:24:54
  the earth. Let me tell you how I require this
• 1:24:57
  to look. And so it's like, I think that's where
• 1:25:00
  we even see, and that's again, like we see in
• 1:25:03
  the Indian myth, where did knowledge originate?
• 1:25:05
  It originated with the creator. He taught us
• 1:25:08
  how to do it. But then what do we see not too
• 1:25:10
  long after this account in Genesis, is we see
• 1:25:13
  Genesis three. Where this, up it to this point,
• 1:25:18
  a normal spiritual being, this serpent, comes
• 1:25:21
  up and says, hey, you see that? You should take
• 1:25:26
  that knowledge. And so when we see the tree of
• 1:25:30
  the knowledge of good and evil, as we like to
• 1:25:32
  say it, I'm even gonna go ahead and just say,
• 1:25:36
  because I know we're wrapping up, I think there's
• 1:25:39
  a strong potential, there's a strong case to
• 1:25:40
  be made that it's not an actual tree, but it's
• 1:25:43
  a representation, especially when we look through
• 1:25:45
  ancient Near East symbolism of trees and how
• 1:25:49
  they symbolize knowledge and wisdom. And it's
• 1:25:53
  like, oh, the serpent was saying, hey, I want
• 1:25:56
  you to partake in this forbidden knowledge. I
• 1:25:59
  want you to enjoy something you're not supposed
• 1:26:01
  to enjoy. And what do they do? It's like, well,
• 1:26:04
  they succumb to that. And then God's like, oh
• 1:26:07
  my goodness. And then we see what happens and
• 1:26:10
  then we get to Genesis six where, and that's
• 1:26:13
  where it kind of ties in with Enoch a little
• 1:26:15
  bit with this, which is a Hebrew. Hebraic? Hebraic?
• 1:26:20
  Hebraic. Tradition in there, it's like, oh yeah,
• 1:26:23
  here's these divine beings that come down and
• 1:26:26
  teach men forbidden knowledge. And Enoch's like,
• 1:26:32
  let me help set this straight through. God's
• 1:26:33
  like, let's set this straight. Here's more, figure
• 1:26:36
  this out. And then we see the flood. And then
• 1:26:39
  what happens then is we see Genesis 11, which
• 1:26:42
  connects to Deuteronomy 32, with Nimrod in the
• 1:26:45
  Tower of Babel. and then as a result of that,
• 1:26:49
  God's splitting the nations. Yeah, and it's like,
• 1:26:55
  well, in all these moments, what are we seeing?
• 1:26:57
  We're seeing that God divided the nations by
• 1:27:00
  the number of the sons of God to help them, help
• 1:27:03
  the people in how to do agriculture and how to
• 1:27:07
  learn writing. It's like these things were learned
• 1:27:11
  and developed, but it's a response to these moments
• 1:27:14
  that we see throughout history. where we learn
• 1:27:18
  rightly from the correct source, and then we
• 1:27:20
  divert, and then we have to learn it again, and
• 1:27:23
  then we divert, and then we have to learn it
• 1:27:24
  again, and we divert. And it keeps happening
• 1:27:27
  up until we get to the point where we have redemption
• 1:27:30
  through Christ. And we have his word. He's like,
• 1:27:33
  I don't have to do it again because I wrote it
• 1:27:35
  down this time. And now here it is, you have
• 1:27:38
  it. Just here, just take this. And the knowledge
• 1:27:41
  given. did not originate with us. It did not
• 1:27:46
  originate with the writers of the text. We believe
• 1:27:50
  that it was authored and given to us by God himself
• 1:27:55
  through divinely inspired, written down, or cataloged.
• 1:28:02
  Which is not unusual because even people now
• 1:28:08
  would dictate. So the Bible is God dictated.
• 1:28:12
  You know what I mean? So it's not like some guy
• 1:28:14
  was like, oh, I'm inspired today, I'm gonna write.
• 1:28:19
  Inspired by God is God dictating. So that's another
• 1:28:23
  conversation, too. Yeah, well, to be fair, you
• 1:28:26
  mentioned like... 10 episode topics I did in
• 1:28:31
  that last like I kind of want to tease it three
• 1:28:33
  minutes It kind of pushes us out of our myth
• 1:28:35
  series here. It does a little bit Yes, which
• 1:28:37
  is what I what I wanted to do. Yeah, but I also
• 1:28:39
  want to set it up in like here are like key moments
• 1:28:41
  that our Scriptures response to you like the
• 1:28:46
  divine did bring knowledge, right? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:28:49
  and we see and we see different players of who
• 1:28:51
  that came from in what happens when man falls
• 1:28:54
  for the wrong, forbidden knowledge. And even,
• 1:28:57
  can we talk about that word for a second? Forbidden
• 1:28:59
  knowledge? Yeah. Which one, forbidden? I think
• 1:29:02
  when, forbidden. Or knowledge. Like, especially
• 1:29:04
  as Western Americans, we hate forbidden. Wait,
• 1:29:06
  which word? Okay. I was like, that's why I was
• 1:29:09
  like, yes, that one. I kept saying, though. I
• 1:29:12
  thought I said something. In my head, I was like,
• 1:29:15
  mm -hmm. But it's like, I think especially as
• 1:29:18
  Western Americans, when I hear, I'm not allowed
• 1:29:20
  to learn something, I'm like, well, I should.
• 1:29:23
  And again, it's like, not again, because I haven't
• 1:29:25
  said it once, but I think it's important. Well,
• 1:29:27
  it's the whole premise of our podcast. Yeah,
• 1:29:30
  true. But I think it is important to be like,
• 1:29:33
  even the serpent, he wasn't saying, here's something
• 1:29:36
  that's evil. And even for us, it's like, it's
• 1:29:40
  not this knowledge is evil. It's not for us.
• 1:29:44
  And we know that. It's like, we see that with
• 1:29:46
  even magic. And God's like, I'm not saying it's
• 1:29:49
  not real. I'm saying it's not for you. True.
• 1:29:53
  Yeah, and I think as you look at that, like when
• 1:29:58
  you say the Hebraic background, that would also
• 1:30:03
  include, it would include Judaism, it would include
• 1:30:06
  Islam, and it would include Christianity. So
• 1:30:12
  like all of those things would come back to this.
• 1:30:15
  So there's three major religions that would basically
• 1:30:20
  say like, our knowledge does not come from us,
• 1:30:24
  but given to us by God. So yeah, we kind of fall
• 1:30:27
  into, that goes back to the myth structure of
• 1:30:32
  the true myth, to use that language, is you see
• 1:30:39
  it in similar stories all over the earth in different
• 1:30:43
  timelines. And so what we would want to get into
• 1:30:47
  is essentially, You go, all right, these myths
• 1:30:51
  are all saying pretty much the same thing. But
• 1:30:55
  there's one through line that we are speaking
• 1:30:59
  out of, of the one true God, Yahweh. And when
• 1:31:05
  we look at that and then we look at all of the
• 1:31:07
  other myths, it's actually pretty clear to us
• 1:31:11
  as we discuss and we look at these different
• 1:31:13
  things that there's one in the middle of it all.
• 1:31:17
  that everything is bouncing off of. Or there
• 1:31:24
  are deceptions created in order to imitate the
• 1:31:29
  actual true myth. And so all of these things,
• 1:31:34
  so essentially all of these other myths and things
• 1:31:38
  going on, they're all rooted in truth. And they
• 1:31:42
  are all, they are all, in some ways as real as
• 1:31:49
  the myths and the stories and the truths that
• 1:31:55
  are within Christianity. And however, they all
• 1:32:02
  are trying to be what the true one actually is.
• 1:32:09
  And each one of them would say that. So that's
• 1:32:12
  the funny thing is like what we're saying, each
• 1:32:15
  one of these traditions would say it about all
• 1:32:18
  other traditions. And so that's something that
• 1:32:21
  we have to reconcile and start to talk about
• 1:32:23
  the depth of and unpack what that looks like
• 1:32:27
  and kind of go, all right, well, let's answer
• 1:32:30
  the question against, all right, let's take this
• 1:32:33
  myth path and go, does it result in death or
• 1:32:37
  does it result in life? Right? So that's where
• 1:32:41
  we would say that the Christian myth, if you
• 1:32:44
  wanna call it that, being the stories and the
• 1:32:49
  history of a culture that involve supernatural
• 1:32:56
  events or beings, that particular myth, does
• 1:33:02
  it result in life or does it result in death?
• 1:33:06
  And even the gods in the other myths that bring
• 1:33:11
  knowledge are punished. Or there's some retribution.
• 1:33:16
  Or the people that receive the knowledge are
• 1:33:19
  punished. Instead, with Yahweh, those that receive
• 1:33:24
  the knowledge gain life. Yeah, the knowledge
• 1:33:28
  through God. Because we see death when they receive
• 1:33:32
  knowledge through anything other. Right. Which
• 1:33:35
  is an explanation of all the other myths. Exactly.
• 1:33:38
  And that's why I think it's so comprehensive
• 1:33:40
  in how it, I mean, as you said, our bias is definitely
• 1:33:43
  on the Bible. Yeah, for sure. And I think, I
• 1:33:47
  said this on the last one, and I'll say it again,
• 1:33:49
  because I think it's worth repeating, is that
• 1:33:52
  when we've been reading through these categories
• 1:33:55
  of myths and comparing them and contrasting them,
• 1:33:58
  it's not to say this proves the Bible's right,
• 1:34:01
  that it's the right one. If anything, it proves
• 1:34:03
  that there's a history here that... we maybe
• 1:34:07
  need to consider, there's something else, which
• 1:34:10
  is good for us. And it's good for us because
• 1:34:13
  that means there's something that we can start
• 1:34:15
  to reason and see patterns in reality for. And
• 1:34:20
  so with that, it's like, okay, now we have something
• 1:34:22
  as Western thinkers. It's like, okay, now we
• 1:34:26
  can start to test it. And exactly what you're
• 1:34:29
  saying, does it lead to life or does it lead
• 1:34:31
  to death? Yeah, so I think that this is actually
• 1:34:35
  like a good set up and foundation of what does
• 1:34:38
  everything else look like and how does the Bible
• 1:34:42
  respond to that? And so that's kind of what we
• 1:34:47
  got into a little bit, even before we got into
• 1:34:49
  myths, looking at how the Bible itself is not
• 1:34:53
  necessarily saying this is how everything was
• 1:34:57
  created, but instead it's responding and saying
• 1:35:00
  you're close, but this is actually what happened.
• 1:35:04
  So it's not necessarily saying, and then everything
• 1:35:07
  was created. It's like, hey, you guys think it's
• 1:35:10
  this, you think it's this, here's what it actually
• 1:35:14
  is. Like, let me take your myth here and your
• 1:35:17
  myth here and I'm gonna pull just the truth out
• 1:35:20
  of it and put it right here. And that's essentially
• 1:35:22
  what the Bible is. That's what I believe. I believe
• 1:35:25
  that as well. Is that there's all these myths
• 1:35:27
  that existed and you go, what about Mesopotamia?
• 1:35:30
  Okay, yeah, so that stuff, a lot of that stuff
• 1:35:32
  traditionally is much older. And we literally
• 1:35:36
  see it. You see it in Genesis, we talked about
• 1:35:39
  that. You see it in Genesis, in the creation
• 1:35:43
  story, that it's contrasting to these other myths.
• 1:35:49
  And it's saying, all right, here's what they
• 1:35:51
  say over here, but here's the actual truth. This
• 1:35:53
  is a deception. And it comes from lowercase G
• 1:35:57
  gods. These aren't who they say they are. So
• 1:36:03
  yeah, I think we're gonna keep going specific
• 1:36:09
  now outside of world myths and jump back into...
• 1:36:16
  Let's jump back into our beloved. Yeah. And I
• 1:36:20
  really want to talk about trees. I do, too. That's
• 1:36:23
  also why I wanted to set it up. OK. Because should
• 1:36:26
  we ask the question here at the end, or should
• 1:36:27
  we save this question for the next episode? Let's
• 1:36:30
  just say it has something to do with trees. Trees.
• 1:36:33
  We're going to discuss trees. What are they?
• 1:36:36
  What, are they made of wood or something? What,
• 1:36:37
  is this a tree or something? Are they people
• 1:36:40
  with no souls? Are they just made of wood? What
• 1:36:45
  is one anyway? What is one? What's the deal with
• 1:36:49
  all the trees? Oh Myths, you've been fun. You've
• 1:36:57
  been fun. I'll myth you We'll myth you myth.
• 1:37:01
  That'll be the title. We'll myth you. We'll myth
• 1:37:04
  you. And three two one