Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SPECIAL WEEKEND CRIME STORIES UPDATE: HEATHER MACK HEADLINES AGAIN After Stuffing Dead Mom in Designer Suitcase @ Exotic Resort

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SPECIAL WEEKEND CRIME STORIES UPDATE: HEATHER MACK HEADLINES AGAIN After Stuffing Dead Mom in Designer Suitcase @ Exotic Resort · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: this woman? Do you remember these so called suitcase Killer
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: aka also known as Heather Mac, spoiled bratt, raised in
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the lap of luxury, who attacked her mother so many
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: times and their luck's home the neighbors knew police were
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: up and down the street at all hours of the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: day or night with Heather Mac attacking her mother, who,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: trying to make peace with her daughter, takes daughter Heather
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Mac on an all expense paid trip to Bolli. Well
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: she didn't make it back home. Let's just put it
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: like that. She ended up dead, folded up in a suitcase,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: oozing blood outside a five star resort. And somehow Heather
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Mack got away, well not for long. She and her boyfriend,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: both of them living off the dead mom, ended up
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: in jail there in Bali. Somehow she gets pregnant, always
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a surprise with Heather Mac gives birth to baby Stella.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: In the latest twist, Heather Mac makes the headlines again
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and not in a good way. I Nancy Grace, this
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. Heather Mac
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: back in the news again. Now, this woman is not
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: known for her wonderful mother daughter relationships, so maybe this
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: is a good thing. Joining me Crime Online dot Com
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave Mack. Why won't Heather Mac go away?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: What's the latest? Heather Mac was released from an Indonesian
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: prison in twenty twenty one and deported back to the US.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Before arriving in her home country, Max said she was
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: afraid to return to the US because of what her
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: daughter might learn. Mack was immediately arrested when she returned
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to Chicago and charged with conspiracy and obstruction of justice
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: relating to her mother's murder. A fight brood over who
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: would have custody of the now seven year old Stella.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: A family friend of Heather Max's mother filed for temporary custody,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and the girl's paternal grandmother also made a bid for
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: a relationship with the girl, as had Max's cousins Lisa Hellman.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: With her mother's arrest in the US, the girl went
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: into foster care, and now a judge has ruled that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the woman who raised the girl in Indonesia while Max
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: served time there, will have temporary custody. The caretaker, oh
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Shar Swartama has reunited with the seven year old after
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the child's therapist told the judge that Stella quote perceives
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Suhartoma as her mother and the primary caretaker in her life.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: The Swhartoma family is leasing a home in Illinois for now.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: This is just the latest in a long series of
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: horrific events, all of them caused by Heather Mack. She
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: brought pain and suffering to her whole family and now
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: to her little girl. I'm so happy a child is
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: being raised by someone that loves her and that little
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Stella will not be in any danger God willing. But
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: how did the whole thing happen? What started this turn
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: of events? Take a listen. Two neighbors who did not
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: want to go on camera tell me that Sheila von
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Weis Mac lived inside this oh park Holm for many
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: many years, but she moved about a year ago, selling
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: it to a developer. This morning, neighbors here are horrified
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to hear of her murder. Police officials say that remains
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: were stuff into a suitcase and found on the Indonesian
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: resort island of Bali. The discovery was made Tuesday. The
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: body was inside the trunk of a taxi parked in
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: front of the upscale Saint Regis Hotel. She was half
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: naked with wounds to her head, according to police, half naked,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: beaten about the head, her bloody bodies crammed into a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: suitcase and left outside of a hotel about the Saint Regis.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Wasn't too happy to see a suitcase with blood easing out.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You were just hearing reporter Jessica Denofrio ABC seven. We're
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: talking about the murdered victim, But who was the murdered victim?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: In life? Sheila Vanuis Mack. Take a listen to our
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: friends at crime Online. Friends describe she live on Weissmack
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: as a lovely and cultured woman, well connected politically. Before
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: her marriage, she was a political science student at Men's
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: College in Boston. She took a job working for Senator
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy doing research and other odd jobs. She told
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: friends she even poured tea for Rose Kennedy at time
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: or two. After leaving Senator Kennedy's camp, Sheila went to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: work for Jackie Kennedy. While studying for a PhD at
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: the University of Chicago. She was friends with famed novelist
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Saul Bellow, who was awarded a Pulitzer Prize, the Nobel
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Prize for Literature, and the National Medal of Arts. Wow,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that's pretty impressive. So that's the mom has found stuffed
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: in a suitcase. But who is Heather Mack's father? Listen
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to this. James Mack was a well known educator, composer,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and arranger. He first taught jazz studies at Crane Junior College,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Chicago's oldest city college. Mac is credited for teaching a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: generation of up and coming musicians who would go on
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to become internationally famous, including some of the founding members
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of Earth Wind and Fire and others who were longtime
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: session play for Muddy Waters, BB King, Phil Collins, and others.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: He also moonlighted as an arranger and producer for record
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: labels including Chess Capital and Colombia, and served as a
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: guest conductor for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Mac already had
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: a son and four daughters by two previous marriages when
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: he married Sheila von Weiss, twenty two years his junior,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: at the age of sixty six, despite having health problems,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Mac became a new dad. Wow, so both parents brilliant
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: in their own way. She a very cultured, sophisticated, educated
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: woman married to a jazz star, a composer and arranger.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: You know, before I introduced the whole panel, I just
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: got to ask his Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coalcase
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: ree Starch Institute and forensics expert, how can two such wonderful,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: brilliant parents have a devil's spawn like Heather Mack? How
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: that happened? This is a very unusual case. It's a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: very unusual situation. Normally you do not see this in
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: a homicide case of this magnitude. So we know about
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the mom, we know about the dad. What about the area?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Where did this child who turns into a killer. Let
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: me tell you, match side killing your mother is very
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: very rare parenthicide. Listen to this. The mac holme was
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: well known by Oak Park Police. Between January two thousand
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and four and June twenty thirteen, officers responded to eighty
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: six calls on a variety of charges, including domestic violence, theft,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: missing person, and nine hang ups. The relationship between mother
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and daughter was tenuous. Cook County juvenile records show that
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Heathermack was arrested in December twenty eleven on domestic battery,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: aggravated battery, and battery charges involving violence against her mother.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Many of the calls before this incidents include alleged physical
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: violence against she live on wife's mac, such as biting, punching,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and hitting. Reports say one incident caused the mom to
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: break her arm. A guilty verdict lended heathermac in mandatory
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: counseling with a focus on anger management. WHOA why did
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: they call it a tenuous relationship between mother and daughter?
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: This girl was beating the hblel out of her own mother.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Did you hear that? Eighty six calls to the home
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and this is a very ritzy area. It's a mansion there.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I said it, beautiful area. No crime that we know of.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Eighty six called. And when you hear domestic matter, you
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: usually think it's the husband or the male partner beating
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: up the wife. It's the daughter, Heather Mack beating on mom.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Let me introduce you our all star panel. Indy Patrick,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon. You can
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com or on
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ and San Diego doctor Jory
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: cross In psychologist faculty, Saint Leo University, Research consultant, author
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: of Sestop Stop Officers Suicide. Cheryl McCollough, Founder Director, Coldcase
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Research Institute, forensics expert. You can find her at Coldcase
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Crimes dot Org. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But first
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: to Christy Missouri, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, joining us
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: from Crime online dot Com. Christy Missourich, why wait, let
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: me understand this. So there have been eighty six nine
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: one one calls to this mansion where the victim, Sheila
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: vanus Mac lives with the daughter, but the mom still
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: wants to men to bridges with the devil daughter and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: take her on an all expense paid trip to Bolli.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: What is it true, Christy Missouri that Sheila's friends said,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: don't take her on a vacation, don't be alone with her.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: They were very concerned and family friends kept pleading with her,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: keep her here in the States, let her walk away.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: She was eighteen years old at the time. Heather always
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: maintained it was her mother who created the dysfunctional, codependent
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: love hate relationship. Really who had the broken arm? Right?
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: She blamed her mom for what she claims was drunken
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: squandering of her father's estate after he died from cancer
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: when she was about ten years old. Oh because later
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: on she claims her mother murdered her father. Correct, he
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: died of cancer. Right. Take a listen to reporter Matt
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Doran and Chris Hansen at Crime Watched Daily. She was becoming,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you know, very defiant and not wanting to listen to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: any rules. And Sheila and I had many, many talks,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, I said, you know, there's a reason
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the term trouble teen is out there. But did Heather's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: troubles go beyond that of a normal teen? She started
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: skipping school, hanging out with a rougher crowd, and even
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: began stealing large sums of money from her own mom.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: What did she tell you about what was going on
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: behind cystals? Well, she told me that she was being
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: abused by Heather. I mean she was constantly being attacked
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: physically and haven't had an explosive temper, I mean, no
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: question about that. Tim he erupted at the slightest provocation.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Another update in the story
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: of Heather Mac born with a silver spin in her mouth,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: only to go on and murder the person that loved
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: her the most in the world, her own mother. Now
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: back to the case, This poor mom was literally being
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: beaten up by her daughter, Heather Mac, but instead of
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: kicking her out, she decides to take her to mend
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Bridges on an all expense paid trip to BOLLI explain
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that to me, doctor Jory, mother's love is unconditional, boy,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: that's for sure, and unfortunately is deadly. You know, she's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: trying to do the best she can as far as,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: like you say, mending that relationship and thinking maybe if
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I can just get away with her and relax and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: spend some time with her and maybe talk things out.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Growing up on what doctor joy Crossen just said. Mom,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Sheila trying desperately to get her daughter to a different environment.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Some were beautiful, some were calm and relaxing, joyful. What's
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: more beautiful than BALI. I mean, I've never been there,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: but I've looked at pictures and it just seems like
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: heaven on earth. So she spends a ton of money
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: to take her daughter away, just the two of them,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: mother daughter. It would be a great environment to start
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: mending and starting the healing process in that relationship exactly. Well,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: she sure got a surprise when she got there. Take
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a listen to Chris Hanson a crime Watch daily for
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: There's boyfriend suddenly arrived on the twelve thousand dollars flight
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: from Chicago. She had no idea Tommy was coming. Sheila
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: had wanted Heather to come on the trip to get
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: her away from people she considered bad influences. Is the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: last person in the world she wanted to see in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: BALI was him. And so then the question is, well,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: how did he get there? I mean his twelve thousand
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: dollars for an airplane taking in addition to the room
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: he'd been saying, Tommy's entire trip was being financed by
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: a credit card Heather had taken from her mom. All
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: accounts Sheila was living. Who is this guy? Christy Missourich
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: joinding us from crime online dot com. Who is this guy?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: He is the love of Hoather Max life that would
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: get her throne in jail. Tommy Schaeffer kind of a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: street thog from He's from an affluent family, but he
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: liked to hang kind of with some foggy type of
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: people in downtown Chicago. I don't get that. What is that,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Shery McCallum. You and I have seen that many times.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Let me go to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, host, author
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: of Red Flags and host of Today with Doctor Wendy. Wendy,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I've seen that where teens children are born with a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: silver spin in their mouth. Their parents bend over backwards
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: to do everything they can for them, but they want
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to hang out with thugs and go get in trouble.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: That's more fun than going to a recital or a
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: prayer meeting. No, they want to hang out with the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: bad guys. Yeah, bad boys and dark heroes and learning
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: that bad company corrupts character, as we say. And you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: my parents used to say, show me your friends, and
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I'll show you your future. I think we should still
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: see that today because this kind of dynamic is very common,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and it's not just common with young teens. You know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: we wish that this would be something somebody would grow
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: out of. But what cases like this illustrate is this
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: permeates culture sometimes even when people are young adults, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: god forbid, even when we become adults, do you mean
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: you gravitate toward that Bengali type person, the life of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the party, the dangerous one. Is that something in human nature?
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: You know, in human nature we tend to see that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: in some types of personalities. It is certainly not something
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: universal that everybody needs to worry about. But when you
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: see this kind of a pattern, and when you see
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: this kind of a pattern, dispite the upbringing that this
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: young woman had, you have to wonder how did this start?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: What all did you know the socialization process playing it?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Or is this just somebody who preferred that kind of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a dangerous, living on the edge lifestyle. Whatever the explanation is,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: we certainly know how it turned out here, you know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Schryl McCollum. You and I have been in court a
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: lot of times together, and I have seen where children, teams,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: adults with every advantage in the world gravitate toward what
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: is dark and evil and end up getting dragged down
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: with it. No question, Sometimes that criminal element it's just sexier,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: it's a more interesting story. It's kind of living on
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the edge, and it's got this thrill to it. A
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: lot of people get kind of sucked into that. But
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's important to talk about the eighty six
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: times police were involved. This has nothing to do with
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the boyfriend. This is her nathy. If you were talking
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: about eighty six robberies or eighty six VUIs, we would
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: be losing our mind. While this person was not in jail.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why she wasn't in jail. The mother
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: would never wanted her prosecuted. She would beat the mother up,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: This wealthy, cultured, educated mom. Her daughter would beat her
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to smithereens, but she didn't want her daughter to have
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a jail record. Finally, the police insisted, and she was
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: found guilty of abusing her own mother. Oh, I'm not
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: putting the onus on the boyfriend. She saught this out herself,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and you're right, she had horns sprouting from day one
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: before she met the boyfriend. But it is quite the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: co Inkie Dean right that just ten hours after the
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: boyfriend's plane touches down, we got problems. Take a listen
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: to Matt Doran and Chris Hansen Crime Watched Daily. Ten
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: hours after the wheels of Tommy's plane hit the ground
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: in Bali, surveillance cameras capture him entering Sheila's hotel room
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with the handle of a metal fruit bowl stuffed under
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: his shirt. About an hour after that, Heather and Tommy
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: are seen heading to the lobby with a silver suitcase,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: which they placed in the back of attachee before running off.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It's not until the driver takes the abandoned luggage to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the police station that they find out what's inside the bloodied,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: half naked body of Sheila von we Smack. She had
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: been blooded repeatedly before asphyxiating on her own blood. So
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: where were Tommy and Heather for just less than a die?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: The media painted his pairs a modern day Bunny and Clyde.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Young American fugitives won't for a particularly brutal murder, but
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the time on the run wouldn't here at this budget
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: motel list than a mile from the crime scene. Staff
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: aluting police after becoming suspicious that the lovers had checked
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: in without any luggage. Jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Shacksonville
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet? Jo Scott,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: how did this loving mother who sacrificed so much? How
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: does she actually die? And then I want to talk
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to you about the phenomena that you and I have
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: encountered many times of stuffing bodies in suitcases. Yeah, let
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: me paint a picture for you, Nancy. In the report
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: that was given forth by the forensic expert at the hospital.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Keep in mind, this is not like being in America.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: They're in Bali, Okay. But the report that came from
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: there states that not only was she beaten about the head, Nancy,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: she's beaten about the face. And you want to know
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: what that says to me? She saw this coming, She
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: was looking. She was looking for as long as she could.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: She probably wound up being blinded, either by her own
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: blood or maybe maybe her optic nerves became dislodged. But
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: she had an awareness. Her facial bones were fractured, her
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: skull has been fractured. And Nancy, I'll tell you how else.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I know that she had an awareness. She had fractures
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: on her arms and her hands, multiple contusions otherwise known
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: as bruising. And her cause of death, remember what the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: what was just said, she actually suffocated, Nancy. When she suffocated,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: more than likely, and this is just MEO pining here.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Her facial bones were fractured, so she would have literally
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: inhalated the bone and the blood that we can normally,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you know, we can normally process something that it might
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: be an our mouth and our airway. We can. But
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: she was so debilitated but still clinging to life. And
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: so when they went to do the autopsy on her
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and they opened up her away, Nancy, her lungs would
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: not only have been filled with her own blood in
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the tiny little air sacks, you would have sent fragmented
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: pieces of bone in there potentially as well. It would
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: have been an excruciy, excruciating way to die. It is
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: just beyond the pale. This gives an indication of the
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: level of violence, and Nancy, I'm gonna I don't want
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: to bury the lead here, but I gotta tell you
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I know where you're going with this. He came down
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: there with specific intent. He flew down there. They had
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: a plan. This was premeditated. He went down there as
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: an assassin. He assassinated this poor little woman, Yes he did,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: with her own daughter leading the attack. And then the
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: horror of you know what. I remember going to a
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: circus with the twins, the big one, Barnum, Barnum and Bailey,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and there was a contortionist. There were two of them.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I think they were sisters, and they could wrap their
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: bodies like they would fold them up. They'd fold up
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: their body and go in a suitcase and close the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: suit It was a box, a suitcase, and we couldn't
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: believe it because it's very small. And I remember thinking,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: how did she do that? And now I'm thinking about
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: this mom, her body being crunched and folded over and
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: crammed into a suitcase. How did that happen? Listen to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Alex Perez GMA this morning, A gruesome discovery near the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: upscale seeing Regis Resorts in Bali is something shock waves
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: from there all the way here to Chicago. Authorities finding
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the body of vacationing American at the Sheila Vannuismack, stuffed
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: inside this silver suitcase. The luggage left in the trunk
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: of this cab contained for questioning. Now came Mac's own
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen year old daughter, Heather and her boyfriend, Tommy Schaeffer.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Heather Mac and Shaeffer were arrested Wednesday at a hotel
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: about six miles away from the resort, telling investigators they
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: had escaped after being kidnapped by armed gang members who
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: murdered her mother. But investigators say surveillance video shows the
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: mother and daughter arguing in the hours before the murderer. Later,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: police ate the young couple called for a taxi, placing
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: several suitcases inside before going back in the hotel to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: check out. They said when they didn't return, hotel security
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: discovered the suitcase, so they put their mom's body crunched up,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: folded up into a suitcase, stick it in, leave it
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: out front for a taxi to put into the taxi,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and then they go into check out and run. My
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: understanding is I guess through the woods to get away
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: out in the back door, literally running out the back
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: door to get away to you. Cheryl McCollum, director of
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. The way they treated her body,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: folding her up, literally folding her up and stuffing her
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: into suitcase. I wonder if Heather Max sat on top
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of it while the boyfriend managed to close it. It
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: is more grotesque than that. They used tape to wrap
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: around her to hold her in place so that she
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: would fit. So this took some time and it was bloody.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: It was a horrific scene. You can even see on
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the outside of the luggage when they take the garbage
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: bag off it's just saturated with her blood. You know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: we're so used to analyzing evidence, Wendy Patrick, that when
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: you hear a comment like that the suitcase was saturated
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: with the mother's blood, a lot of times we just
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: make a note of it because we're going to use
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that in a closing statement. Think about that for a moment, though, Wendy.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: The suitcase was saturated with her mother's blood. She bound
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: her mother with a duct tape, her body folded over
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and contorted to fit into a suitcase. Yeah, you know
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: what that tells me? And what you know, even if
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the human being haven't been a prosecutor for so many years,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: is the amount of time that the mother suffered. I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: don't think anyone can think through what happened here, even
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: if you were just to hear about the injuries and
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: not feel how long that mother suffered, and at the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: hands of her own daughter, who she loved enough to
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: forgive all of those years of abuse. Eighty six calls
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to the how you know the mother's love the family
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: first mentality for this mother ended up being fatal to you.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Doctor Jory cross In psychologist faculty Saint Leo Author, Doctor
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Jory what does that tell you about how she considered
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: her mother. But you know the level of violence, there's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: always the close relationship. I mean, you can just about
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of research to show that, you know,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the more violence, the closer the relationship. I agree with
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Joe that you know, the boyfriend showed up over there
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: with a plan to kill her, and when they got together,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Heather and the boyfriend, you know, there's energy, but there's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: also what's called synergy. I mean, it just synergizes this
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: level of violence. And it's documented in all the wounds
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to the body and how vicious the attack was. And
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I want to go to you, Jessica Morgan. Patricide is
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: very very rare, actually, especially the murder of your own mother. Yeah. Yeah,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it is, and it's not something that you come across
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: every day. I've worked cases in my career, and you know, Nancy,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I've got to tell you those cases that I have
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: worked when you begin to rate them, and this is
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: only my little slice of the world, my little slice,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: but from what I have observed, those were traditionally some
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: of the most violent cases that I ever encountered, and
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of it has to do with
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: anger time stories with Nancy Grace. The story of Heather Mack.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I say story because it sounds like it's out of
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: a novel or a horror movie. Murdering her own mother,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: going on the lamb, giving birth to a baby behind bars.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: How did the whole thing get set in motion? How
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: did this story begin to unfold? Match aside, The murder
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of your own mother makes up a little less than
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: two percent of all homicides. It is very very rare,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: even for people that's for some reason hate their mother.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: To kill your mother, very very rare. So how has
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: she been spending her time behind bars? Take a listen
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to our friends at Inside Edition. Not exactly a hard time,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: is it? That's mom? Kill her? Heather Matt having fun
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: dancing while she's in prison on the island Paradise of Bolly.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Heather is wearing makeup and books Happy Go Lucky as
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: she playfully sticks her tongue out. And here's the twenty
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: year old Chicago raised Harris in trendy shades, a big
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: smile on her face. Heather and her boyfriend Tommy Shaffer
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: were convicted of murdering her mother and stuffing the body
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: into a suitcase during a vacation in Bali last year.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Japer is doing eighteen years. Heather got ten. The young
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: lover's daughter, Stella, was born in prison. This video shows
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Shaffer cradling Stella while mom was dancing. The prison where
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Heather and her boyfriend are being held has been described
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: as a hell hole, but it sure doesn't look like
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that in this new video. Okay, I don't understand Chrissy mssuric.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: How is she wearing makeup and dancing and mugging at
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a camera with her baby behind bars? So in Indonesia
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: moms can stay with their kids behind bars for up
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to two years. Also, what I've heard from some of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: my sources is that Heather has taken some of her
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: mom's money to pay off prison guards for relaxed rules. Okay,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you know, it reminds me if you're on Vandersliet Wendy
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Patrick who somehow has drugs and booze and got someone
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: pregnant behind bars after he murdered Natalie Holloway and Stephanie
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Tasciana Flores in Lima. Yeah, she's having a party. Yeah.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when we hear that somebody's in prison,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the mental imagery that comes to mind is very far
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: from reality, and that appears to be the case here.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you, Nancy, more and more frequently
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: we are getting this glimpse, unfortunately in a sense, into
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: what goes on behind bars because of the amount of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: contraband phones that are behind bars. So every time I
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: see footage somehow captured in a high security facility of
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: wherever it is in the world, that also tells me
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the contraband issue that goes on, where all of these
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: phones and ways to capture footage like this. If that's
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: the way it was done, I don't know is even possible,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: but I suppose on the bright side, it gives us
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: somewhat of an idea as to what prison life is
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: like in order for us to make the corrections that
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: we need to. Well, all I know is she is
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: not roughing it behind bars at all. She's got makeup music,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: she's dancing, she's got contraband, she's got her daughter, and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: now she's worried about coming home to the US because
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: her daughter might find out she's a murderer. First of all,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: why should she have the baby? How would you grow
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: and flourish with Heather mac as your mother? Well, that's
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: not all. Take a listen to Less Trent from inside edition.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Don't regret killing my mother, And as evil as that
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: may sound, that's my reality. A chilling confession from behind
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: bars by the American heiress who murdered her wealthy mother
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: on vacation in Bali. I made it up in my heart,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: my mind, my soul, my blood, oxygen running through my body.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to kill my mother. Now listen to why.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Twenty one year old Heather Mack says she beat her
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: mom to death and stopped her body in a suitcase.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: When I was ten, my mother killed my father in
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a hotel in Athens, Greece. Could Heather be making up
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the story? We spoke to family friend Elliott Jacobson, who
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: says Heather's claims are nonsense. It's a kind of statement
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that doesn't even warrant a response. It's such an absurdity.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: He showed me this death certificate for Heather's father, Jane's
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Mack is the cause of death as pulmonary embolism, a
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: blood clot in the lungs. You were hearing not only
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: are a friend less trend and insight edition, but you're
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: hearing Heather Max saying she does not regret murdering her mother.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: She gives justification that her mother murdered her father when
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: she was ten in Athens, Greece. That could not be
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: further from the truth. You hear the family friend, Elliott
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Jacobson saying that that was not his cause of death.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: The father's cause of death was a pulmonary embolism, a
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: blood clot in the lungs brought about through a battle
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: with cancer. So even now she's fabricating stories to justify
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: murdering her mother, shows me that there is no remorse,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: no acceptance of her crime. Okay, let's take a listen
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to more of what we've learned. Here's Matt Duran and
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily. Does the evidence support
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Heather is a version of av It's one thing, in
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the heat of the moment, in a violent exchange, to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: kill your own mother, but it's another thing entirely to
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: map it out and for this to have been premeditated.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: So which was it in my head? At the police say,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: there's a series of text messages, Heather which show that
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: which go to that very motive premeditation. I'm sure, yes,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: of course you want to call me back. That call
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: never came. We would lose contact with Heather after those
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: final words. It shows premeditation Cheryl McCollum. The text messages
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: between her and her boyfriend. It's just like doctor Jory said,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: he came there as an assassin and now she's going
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to walk free, only worry about what's going to happen
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: to the baby. Well, let's talk about that, Nancy, because
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of her motivation. So she
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: originally tried to ask her boyfriend, Hey, do you know
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: somebody that can kill my mother for fifty thousand dollars.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Then I think the two of them decided, hey, we
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: can say fifty grain and do it ourselves and collect everything,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: all the inheritance. She right now she wants that baby
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: back with her. She's lying when she says she's worried
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: that the baby's going to find out why she's in prison.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: The baby visits both of her parents in separate prisons
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: for murder. The baby's gonna know why they were there.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: That's a given. And this is what I think. She
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: wants that baby back at Chicago with her because her
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: daughter inherited her mother's estate. Guys take a listen to
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: our friends at NBC five Chicago, Saint Charles Beast attorney
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Fabia has represented Mac and Stella. She's definitely more
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: mature now and being a mother has changed her drastically,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So I think she's going to come back with a
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: new lease on life and definitely a better person all around.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Max's uncle Bill Weees tells NBC five he has not
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: had contact with heatherin does not want to, and he
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: says he believes Heather's original ten year sentence was a
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: travesty of justice. Still, he says the family's hearts continue
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: to go out to Stella and they hope she can
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: be raised in a safe and loving environment. Everyone she
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: would know in America now was friends with her mother
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: that she murdered. As far to you, Jessica Morgan, I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: don't know how she sleeps at night thinking back on
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the way she murdered her mother, duct taped her body
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: into a ball to stick her into a suitcase. I
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: have no idea, because you know what, I'd see her
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: cycling back into violence. This is not like something that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: just fell from lightning, like lightning from heaven. This is
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: a premeditated event. This woman is evil nance Well, there
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: were the eighty six phone calls to police were just
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the post to believes. How many other times did she
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: batter her mother? And as far as maturing behind bars,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: doctor Jerry Cross said, she says, I don't regret murdering
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: my mother, then makes up a story that her mom
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: is a killer, that it's her mother's fault. She's dead
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: in a suitcase. That's all justification for her. That's that's
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: all that is. Thank you for joining us on our
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: special weekend Crime Stories update. We wait as justice unfolds,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and our prayers for this little girl, Stella to grow
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: up happy and healthy and above all safe from her
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: own mother. Nancy Gray's Crime Story signing off, Goodbye friend