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Pregnant & Job Hunting: Cecile Pichot's Fight Against Discrimination · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:30
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• 0:43
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• 0:58
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• 1:08
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• 1:10
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• 1:16
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• 1:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hello and welcome to this week's Work it Like a Mum podcast episode.
• 1:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: Today I'm delighted to be chatting with Cecile Peasho, now the operations manager at Audio Network.
• 2:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: But before landing her job at Audio Network, cecile found herself unemployed when pregnant with her first child.
• 2:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: We're going to be talking in this episode about job seeking whilst pregnant, discrimination towards mothers in the job seeking process and then subsequently settling into a new job with a new employer at a career break.
• 2:27
  Elizabeth Willetts: We'll also be talking about the changes that Cecile would like to see in the recruitment process for pregnant women and when interviewing new moms.
• 2:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, cecile, for joining me today and talking about your experiences, particularly job seeking when you found yourself, unfortunately, unemployed when pregnant, which must have been a research frightening time for you.
• 2:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: So thank you so much for sharing your experiences.
• 2:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you, liz.
• 2:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: Great to be here.
• 2:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, it's really good to chat.
• 2:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: So do you want to give us a bit of a brief overview, as you know, how you found yourself unemployed whilst pregnant, and then we'll talk a bit more about your job seeking?
• 3:05
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, absolutely so, yeah.
• 3:07
  Cecile Pichot: So my husband and I kind of met in our mid 30s, a little bit later in life, and I was working contract work at the time had a six month contract with getting ready to get married in december friends of ours, I just gotten pregnant.
• 3:23
  Cecile Pichot: I said to my husband I think we should start trying now, because this could take a few years and we're not young anymore.
• 3:29
  Cecile Pichot: So we started trying very, very lucky, good pregnant premise straight away.
• 3:33
  Cecile Pichot: So yes, I was pregnant in september and my contract was running up to december, but we were also planning on taking a month off after the wedding.
• 3:43
  Cecile Pichot: So unfortunately I wasn't able to negotiate a month's break and then coming back into into the same contract afterwards.
• 3:51
  Cecile Pichot: So I found myself, with my contract ending in december, going on on a honeymoon, then coming back without a job, I guess there is less protection, isn't there when you are contracting?
• 4:02
  Cecile Pichot: I don't know a hundred percent all the legalities around it, but that must have been really, you know, frightening time for you it was quite as a kind of first trial, the luck going on with kind of people ask the questions like oh, so what necessary are you going to put the baby in?
• 4:17
  Cecile Pichot: It's like I have to think about that now.
• 4:19
  Cecile Pichot: They're not even here yet, so there are so many things to think about and adjust to.
• 4:23
  Cecile Pichot: And then like not having a job either was quite difficult time in a way.
• 4:28
  Cecile Pichot: I thought that contracting would make things easier yeah, because you could find another contract exactly and I explored a few avenues of kind of different contract jobs that I could pick up.
• 4:39
  Cecile Pichot: Coincidentally, at that time it was kind of a lot of things happening at the same time.
• 4:43
  Cecile Pichot: I always also had a little bit of a self-doubt period in my careers, like am I doing the right thing?
• 4:48
  Cecile Pichot: Do I have the right training?
• 4:50
  Cecile Pichot: So I was able to do a training course, a really like intensive, thorough training course, just after coming back from honeymoon, which kind of helped me kind of check on my foundations in my role.
• 5:01
  Cecile Pichot: So that was that was useful in being able to to have were you doing that alongside job seeking?
• 5:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: yes, and was that something you'd paid for yourself?
• 5:10
  Cecile Pichot: yes, it was so yeah.
• 5:12
  Cecile Pichot: So I reached out to different contacts.
• 5:13
  Cecile Pichot: I had a few potential things I could do short term, but none of them panned out.
• 5:18
  Cecile Pichot: And then, even with the short term contracts coming up, because, like, recruiters knew that I was contracting and they would reach out and I said, yes, I can absolutely do that.
• 5:28
  Cecile Pichot: But I kind of have a hard stop around end of may and they go oh, why is that?
• 5:33
  Cecile Pichot: It's like oh, because I'm having a baby, so I'm gonna have to take some time off, at which point the job would suddenly become unavailable suspiciously that happened repeatedly then.
• 5:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, there were quite quite a few of those did.
• 5:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: Did anyone sort of ever, you know?
• 5:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: Did they explain why the job would disappeared?
• 5:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: Were they have outwardly discriminatory and what they said?
• 5:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: Or is it all right subtle?
• 5:55
  Cecile Pichot: yeah, it was very, very subtle kind of people like either just disappearing, saying oh no, that one has has filled up, or now they're going in different direction.
• 6:03
  Cecile Pichot: You know all of those kind of things.
• 6:05
  Cecile Pichot: So yeah, it was just impossible absolutely you must felt like you were hitting your head against the brick wall I really was like we were quite lucky and we were in a situation where my husband was working and we have some savings, so we were okay, but it was still pretty kind of stressful to know that I would have to take some time off to look after the baby already and I couldn't do any work in those three months what between?
• 6:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: yes, so what happens with maternity pay then?
• 6:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, I suppose you were contracting anyway, but you know, particularly if then you're not working, do you still get maternity pay?
• 6:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: And there's a statutory pay?
• 6:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yes, and that comes from the government exactly, exactly so I had that.
• 6:43
  Cecile Pichot: So so that helps a little bit, but, as any mum who's been through this would know, it's not a large amount.
• 6:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's like it's a few hundred hundred pounds and did you feel pressure to take that early then, when you realized you weren't going to get a new job?
• 6:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: You?
• 6:58
  Cecile Pichot: know what.
• 6:59
  Cecile Pichot: I actually didn't think about that because I, like I tried almost right up to to the end to get something and then because I also knew that I wanted to take at least six months with my son, I kind of I started when I was spring because I knew it would carry on for for a while as well, so you had your, your son, and then, I'm guessing, you did you take a break from job seeking for a little bit yes, so basically by.
• 7:23
  Cecile Pichot: So I was due by end of may.
• 7:24
  Cecile Pichot: Mid-may.
• 7:25
  Cecile Pichot: It's like, okay, this is not going to happen, I'm just going to try and relax now and and do the baby thing.
• 7:30
  Cecile Pichot: And my husband I had various discussions like what sort of time period should we aim for for me to start recruiting again, and I said, okay, let's do, let's do six months, because that brings us up to to january the the following year.
• 7:42
  Cecile Pichot: So, just like, focused all of my time and energy on my son.
• 7:45
  Cecile Pichot: And then came january.
• 7:46
  Cecile Pichot: So we actually we went on holiday for a couple of weeks and came back and I started all of the interviewing.
• 7:52
  Cecile Pichot: So just before going on holiday I got my cv ready, started looking at what's out there and then, yeah, mid january, started in earnest to look for different roles and there were a few things um available and I got some interviews.
• 8:06
  Cecile Pichot: But the challenge then was kind of finding a, a company that would be flexible enough to support new moms, because I didn't.
• 8:16
  Cecile Pichot: I mean, nothing could have prepared me for the change in your life.
• 8:20
  Cecile Pichot: So we again, we were very lucky.
• 8:22
  Cecile Pichot: My son started nursery at the beginning of that feb that year and we put him in for five days a week, eight in the morning till six in the evening, and at that point, because he and I had spent so much time together, we were both kind of ready to start seeing other people, you know.
• 8:38
  Cecile Pichot: So it was a good arrangement.
• 8:40
  Cecile Pichot: He was happy to go after the initial settling in process.
• 8:44
  Cecile Pichot: But even with that, even having that which is turning into a bit of a luxury these days, as well with the cost of childcare I still knew that I had to get a job that would be understanding, where I could leave on time to get my son.
• 8:58
  Cecile Pichot: So there was some companies that I interviewed for that were kind of in a startup phase, sort of the next phase up from startup, and I had like exec saying straight out like this is not a nine to five job.
• 9:11
  Cecile Pichot: You have to be willing to put in more time, which I try to explain.
• 9:15
  Cecile Pichot: I'm absolutely happy to put in more time, but I have a child and he comes first.
• 9:20
  Cecile Pichot: And that's kind of the point where things start to get a little bit weird again, with people just kind of not directly saying that it would be an issue, but kind of making the kind of sounds and motions like oh, you know, you're gonna kind of have to.
• 9:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: You're not as committed.
• 9:37
  Cecile Pichot: Yes exactly.
• 9:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think that's they want people to just some, some people, obviously not everyone, but some employees just seem to think that your job, their job that they're giving you, should be your whole life.
• 9:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah you don't have, but that's not fair on anybody Exactly.
• 9:54
  Cecile Pichot: And it's not realistic either.
• 9:56
  Cecile Pichot: That my kind of made help made me understand why so many women, and mums especially, are leaving the job world, because it is incredibly hard to juggle and there are.
• 10:06
  Cecile Pichot: It seems to me like there are very few companies out there that are willing to see the bigger picture and kind of think longer terms like, okay, this, this person has a kid now and that's the top priority.
• 10:17
  Cecile Pichot: But if we treat our people well, they will stay longer term.
• 10:23
  Cecile Pichot: And this is just if you think about this, like, in the biggest scheme of things, it's a very short period of time where we have these commitments and challenges.
• 10:31
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wonder if that sort of attitude you know you've got to work long hours.
• 10:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's because you think these you know if it's a small startup.
• 10:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: They said these entrepreneurs are so bought into their business dream they expect, you know, everyone else to be as bought into it as they are.
• 10:46
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, there's definitely an element of that and I, again, I can understand it from their perspective because, like with a startup, it is just all hands on deck and everyone has to to put in extra time to help with that.
• 10:59
  Cecile Pichot: But in some of the most of the companies I spoke to weren't in their early startup phases and they still had that long hours.
• 11:06
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, exactly, which, like interestingly, when I then did land a job, we'll get to a bit.
• 11:12
  Cecile Pichot: I find that I work my core hours but I get a lot more done.
• 11:16
  Cecile Pichot: It's like you're so much more focused, as you know, you have a hard stop where you'd have to go change into mum mode and look at that side of your life.
• 11:26
  Cecile Pichot: But some of the interest like.
• 11:28
  Cecile Pichot: There was another company I interviewed for who, like I explained that I was off for 14 months because of my contract ending and then taking time off and, via the recruiter, they said, okay, can you give us some examples of things you did while you were off to kind of keep up to date in the industry and the work and like, very nearly like what is this though?
• 11:48
  Cecile Pichot: Yes, well, I, I project managed a birth and the survival of a human being, but I was like.
• 11:54
  Cecile Pichot: So I had the training course that I had run and I had sat in on a on some, had various sessions with contact in the industry.
• 12:03
  Cecile Pichot: My husband is in sort of a similar is a software developer and I work with developers or I did at the time so I was kind of keeping up to date on things via him as well, and because I had time off before I had the baby, I was able to do various things to upskill myself.
• 12:21
  Cecile Pichot: It wasn't that I was just baby time all of the time, but then I also just found it's such a very belittling yeah, condescending.
• 12:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: That's it, and it's exactly patronizing and yeah, it is actually running what moms and women that you know, caregivers do down and society.
• 12:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, that's a really poor attitude.
• 12:42
  Cecile Pichot: Exactly, and it's like people I don't know if it's like people see it as this black hole of women disappearing off and having a child and you're just like doing Scottish things that there are so many transferable skills from motherhood and from looking after a little one, because by nature so I was at home during the day, so I took on a little bit more of the household responsibilities as well just at the time.
• 13:07
  Cecile Pichot: There's a lot of project management and logistics and planning that goes into it.
• 13:14
  Cecile Pichot: The fact when I started working again it was such a relief because like being with a little person all day, every day, is exhausting.
• 13:22
  Cecile Pichot: It's really, really hard work.
• 14:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: I come to it for a break.
• 14:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can't have a cup of tea?
• 14:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: Have a bit of adult conversation.
• 14:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's nice to have the balance.
• 14:23
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, and when you're at work you can take a little break, you can go for a coffee break.
• 14:28
  Cecile Pichot: That's not an option when you're a mom, a full-time mom.
• 14:32
  Cecile Pichot: So, yeah, it feels like a lot of people don't realise that.
• 14:35
  Cecile Pichot: And you don't forget your core skills either.
• 14:38
  Cecile Pichot: You just don't.
• 14:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 14:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: You obviously job seeking.
• 14:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: You were having a really tough time and then you found your job or audio network.
• 14:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: Do you want to talk through what that interview process looked like and maybe why it was different to the other ones?
• 14:54
  Cecile Pichot: So yeah, so it really stood out in that the recruiting manager he had kids himself, he understood and he just he had empathy for my situation and he immediately reassured me that he understands that there are commitments with children.
• 15:11
  Cecile Pichot: He explained that the company is a company, that we don't expect people to work crazy hours and that brings true even today.
• 15:20
  Cecile Pichot: We work hard, we are passionate, we are committed, but it's rare that anyone has to stay really late or come in really early.
• 15:28
  Cecile Pichot: There isn't that kind of culture.
• 15:30
  Cecile Pichot: So that already put me at ease.
• 15:33
  Cecile Pichot: He's like okay, I think this is the base there where I want to work, and that was kind of confirmed as I met more people.
• 15:40
  Cecile Pichot: It was really eye-opening for me as well.
• 15:42
  Cecile Pichot: In my earlier career it was kind of like I got the feeling that you had to be seen to put in extra hours to progress in any way, and it was a nice change of scenery.
• 15:56
  Cecile Pichot: Someone just came in because of talks.
• 15:58
  Cecile Pichot: It was just a breath of fresh air to realise that there are people and companies who acknowledge that you can do a great job without having to be seen to work extra hours.
• 16:12
  Cecile Pichot: And again, that's something that my manager has said it's like I would rather have you here for eight hours and have all of you, than you're working longer hours and being worried or stretched yeah, or distracted, exactly.
• 16:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: So how long did it take you to find your job when you started looking again?
• 16:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, how long did it take.
• 16:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, obviously you'd had the time before, but then you know, when you started again, how long did it take you to find the job.
• 16:39
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Cecile Pichot: So it took three solid months.
• 16:41
  Cecile Pichot: So I kind of started, probably about well, maybe mid-December, getting my CV ready.
• 16:46
  Cecile Pichot: I knew there was no point in trying to interview then, but started interviewing in January and I started in this role in late March.
• 16:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and is that normal?
• 16:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: Was that obviously as a contractor before?
• 16:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: Was that normal for you?
• 17:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: How long did it take you to find jobs?
• 17:02
  Cecile Pichot: It's a little hard to compare because in the past I would have had to be in a role and then have something else come up.
• 17:08
  Cecile Pichot: But it is, but for the particular role that I was in.
• 17:11
  Cecile Pichot: So I was in product management.
• 17:12
  Cecile Pichot: That, like it, usually goes very, very quickly.
• 17:14
  Cecile Pichot: It's a role that's in high demand been in like increasingly high demand over the last few years, so it was unusual for it to take that long to get into a role.
• 17:25
  Cecile Pichot: And again it was like a thing of interviewing and then you know, they wouldn't necessarily talk about family life or something, but talking about the career break, talking about the fact that I have children, no direct sort of outright like oh no, sorry, you know, but there was sassleties there for sure.
• 17:43
  Cecile Pichot: And one another company that I interviewed, with the feedback via the recruiter was it just he doesn't believe that like that I took time off to be with, you know, with my child.
• 17:55
  Cecile Pichot: He didn't believe that my story, as he put it, of having my contract ended and then going off on maternity leave.
• 18:02
  Cecile Pichot: He thought that I was hiding something.
• 18:04
  Cecile Pichot: So it was just like what?
• 18:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: That's the best business.
• 18:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think it's what you thought you might have made it up.
• 18:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: I know, oh, odd thing to say and I can't believe that recruiter.
• 18:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: So what would you think?
• 18:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: What would you like?
• 18:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: You obviously had a terrible type job seeking pregnant and then with a new child.
• 18:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: But your experience, unfortunately, is not isolated and it happens to lots of women, you know, or every year.
• 18:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: So what would you like to see changed within the recruitment process?
• 18:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know how would you like recruiters to maybe change and deal with pregnant and new parent job seekers, and then the higher managers as well.
• 18:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: What do you think would have helped you?
• 18:43
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, it's a hard topic because I do see their side as well.
• 18:48
  Cecile Pichot: So even recruiting someone for a three month contract, if you know that they have a hard stop, you know, from a business continuity perspective it's better for them to have someone who can continue past three months if they want them, if they need to.
• 19:01
  Cecile Pichot: But I like two things and I think it's a bit of an educational thing for companies as well.
• 19:08
  Cecile Pichot: It's kind of just thinking about things a little bit longer term.
• 19:12
  Cecile Pichot: So you know, someone might come in like, say, someone is pregnant and recruiting for a permanent role even, and then going off on maternity leave.
• 19:21
  Cecile Pichot: A lot of companies go oh no, and they'll be like upset if you don't reveal that.
• 19:25
  Cecile Pichot: But to kind of see the bigger picture is like, yes, this person will be out for probably maximum a year, but there's still talent, you're still recruiting the right person for the role and for the company.
• 19:36
  Cecile Pichot: It's worth investing that time and supporting them through that, especially if they are then likely to stay on longer and make a longer term contribution in the company.
• 19:49
  Cecile Pichot: And to think about it in that way and also for people to remember that everyone is here today because someone took time out of the rest of their life to spend time with them and nurture them and keep them alive when they were, when they were infants, and it's.
• 20:08
  Cecile Pichot: We need that kind of that kind of thinking to help raise the next generation of the workforce.
• 20:15
  Cecile Pichot: So those are the kind of things that I like people just kind of kind of think about it in that way and, and yeah, give that support to our working moms.
• 20:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think you're and you're really good at.
• 20:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: You've talked about how much more productive you are in the hours that you do work and I think that's the real selling point Organizations and to society.
• 20:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know we hear a lot that we're the most on productive, one of the most unproductive nations don't mean the world.
• 20:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: Our productivity levels a lot.
• 20:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: I do think flexible thinking definitely sells some of that and increase that.
• 20:45
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, I really think so, and where I've had opportunities like the in a company where where you know, like if you have a crisis and you need to go pick up your child because they got a, a fever or something, but you know that you have that space to do that and you're trusted to make up that time and to get your job done somehow, whatever it takes.
• 21:04
  Cecile Pichot: That is really reassuring and like stress reducing as well, and that helps productivity as well.
• 21:11
  Cecile Pichot: So it's a give and take thing.
• 21:12
  Cecile Pichot: Right.
• 21:12
  Cecile Pichot: It's like this company gave me a bit of time.
• 21:14
  Cecile Pichot: I'm happy to give some of my time back and, where I have additional time to, to put that into my work, and it means a lot.
• 21:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: So just before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask you a bit about the training course that you did and that you paid for that, because I get a lot of you know, get some training opportunities added to my website.
• 21:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: Some are funded by the government and some are paid.
• 21:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think this can be some I mean, obviously some people can't afford and that's fine, but there are just some to be, I think, some resistance from particularly mothers investing in themselves.
• 21:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, whether that be a time commitment or a financial commitment, they'll buy everybody in the family you know the kids' coats, shoes, etc.
• 21:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: And they'll be walking around in a you know coat with holes in it, for example.
• 21:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: What would you say to those people you know about investing in yourself and the benefits or that that might bring?
• 22:06
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, if you can do it, do it Like, try making it happen.
• 22:09
  Cecile Pichot: Someone like to use an analogy is like I went to a gym for an assessment after I have my little one, and he said, yeah, you know you should invest in yourself and your fitness.
• 22:20
  Cecile Pichot: And I said, oh, but I have a little one, they come first.
• 22:23
  Cecile Pichot: And then he said, but you know how in the plane, in an airplane, they go put on your oxygen mask first, but before helping others, because you kind of have to make sure that you're in a good state before you help others.
• 22:33
  Cecile Pichot: And that like, even though it's like that's not quite the same, there was something there like we have to in order for us, as moms, to be good moms first to be good in our in our careers and happy in our careers.
• 22:45
  Cecile Pichot: Making that investment is important.
• 22:47
  Cecile Pichot: And again, I was lucky because I was contracting, I had a limited company and I could pay for the training out of my limited company funds.
• 22:55
  Cecile Pichot: That's not always possible or easy to do, but even things like there are training courses through, like LinkedIn, learning that, yeah.
• 23:04
  Cecile Pichot: Or YouTube this free stuff, exactly, yeah, they don't have a massive, massive charge.
• 23:08
  Cecile Pichot: Or reading, reading books, like making the time to read.
• 23:12
  Cecile Pichot: That is, it's absolutely worthwhile and I found that after I had the kids.
• 23:16
  Cecile Pichot: Like you know, every bit of time that you do get for yourself is just like nap time or just taking a mind break.
• 23:24
  Cecile Pichot: But I would start a habit of doing a bit of reading in the evenings, just for half an hour or so after the little one fell asleep, and using a Kindle with a backlight so lights off Kindle and I'm still doing that and it's just a little way to upskill and invest invest in myself.
• 23:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: And obviously when you were then job seeking, they were.
• 23:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: You could bring that up.
• 23:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: I suppose that you had done this.
• 23:50
  Cecile Pichot: Yes.
• 23:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, so do you feel it paid for itself in the end that you had done that training course?
• 23:57
  Cecile Pichot: Yeah, I had, and again so because I was contracting, I probably would have had.
• 24:01
  Cecile Pichot: I would have had to do that myself anyway, but it was a good way to spend those funds and, like, given that I had the time as well, it was a very good opportunity.
• 24:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: Really good.
• 24:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you said about the gym because I do.
• 24:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: I don't do it to a gym, but I do sometimes use to do YouTube workouts with this lady and she sort of said it's not selfish to exercise.
• 24:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: You need to be healthy and happy.
• 24:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, look after other people.
• 24:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think that's you know.
• 24:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's a really good example actually of that.
• 24:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: You do need to look after yourself and it's not being selfish.
• 24:30
  Cecile Pichot: Exactly.
• 24:30
  Cecile Pichot: But even mind time just like that, like it benefits you but it also benefits the ones around you just like for me to have a little one hour break from the kids and just doing my own thing.
• 24:42
  Cecile Pichot: It's really a good mental health then investment as well, so absolutely worthwhile.
• 24:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: Really Well.
• 24:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, Cecil, for your time today Lovely, Thank you.
• 24:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: So where can people find you and connect with you and learn more about you and Audio Network?
• 24:58
  Cecile Pichot: Oh, yes, absolutely so.
• 24:59
  Cecile Pichot: I'm on Twitter or LinkedIn Also, even happy to share an email address by you if people want to get it.
• 25:06
  Cecile Pichot: Get in touch.
• 25:06
  Cecile Pichot: It's nice to have that conversation.
• 25:09
  Cecile Pichot: It's good to have a conversation, have support and, like we've even we've started a little teams chat in the company of working parents.
• 25:16
  Cecile Pichot: We've extended that to not just working moms but also working dads, where we can just say, oh, I'm going through this, is anyone else going through this?
• 25:24
  Cecile Pichot: What do you do?
• 25:25
  Cecile Pichot: And sometimes it's just like a case of, like, you know, just get through it.
• 25:28
  Cecile Pichot: But having that support and having someone to talk to often helps.
• 25:32
  Cecile Pichot: So, yeah, happy to share my details people so they can get in touch.
• 25:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Oh well, lovely.
• 25:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: We'll put all your links in the show notes.
• 25:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, Cecil, for joining us today.
• 25:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you, Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like a Mom podcast.
• 25:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 25:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 26:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
• 26:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dream.