Latest / Brian Thomas / Brian chats with Brigham McCown from the Hudson Institute 4/9/2026

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Brian chats with Brigham McCown from the Hudson Institute 4/9/2026 · Brian Thomas

0:01
Speaker 1: Here at fifty five care Se the talkstation, Thomas wishing
0:05
Speaker 1: everyone even try to make it a happy Thursday. We're
0:08
Speaker 1: struggling with a casting appall over the fifty five Carsy
0:10
Speaker 1: Morning show for listeners just tuning in. Didn't hear me
0:13
Speaker 1: mention it this morning morning, the passage of Joe Strekker's
0:17
Speaker 1: father who died yesterday in the afternoon. He'd been struggling
0:20
Speaker 1: for quite some time with pretty significant illness. So even
0:24
Speaker 1: though it may have been an expected event, obviously very
0:27
Speaker 1: very heartbreaking. So the extent folks believe in the power prayer.
0:30
Speaker 1: I'm welcoming everyone to join in the prayers we're offering
0:33
Speaker 1: to this Strekker family and particularly Joe's mother in these
0:37
Speaker 1: times of trial. We're gonna talking about energy policy with
0:40
Speaker 1: Breging mcown from the Hudson Ends too. He is on
0:42
Speaker 1: his way in studio on the elevator. I tried to
0:45
Speaker 1: grab them over the over the drafty report there, but
0:48
Speaker 1: they didn't make it in time. So need to be
0:51
Speaker 1: here where the microphone comes on. But one of the
0:52
Speaker 1: things I noticed this morning, it kind of ties in
0:54
Speaker 1: nicely with my conversation with Jay Rattler that's coming up
1:00
Speaker 1: at eight thirty. Aviation expert Delta posts improved profit for
1:04
Speaker 1: this most recent quarter, but is racing for two billion
1:09
Speaker 1: dollars in surging fuel costs. Obviously, the ripple effect from
1:13
Speaker 1: the Strait of hor moves closure in the war with Iran.
1:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the fifty five karsee morning show from
1:18
Speaker 1: the Hudson Ins two. Find them online at Hudson dot org.
1:20
Speaker 1: Bring him account our energy policy expert. Hey Man, good
1:23
Speaker 1: to have you in studio.
1:24
Speaker 2: Brian, Thank you so much. It's great to be here
1:26
Speaker 2: this morning.
1:27
Speaker 1: Oh you heard me mention about Delta one single company
1:30
Speaker 1: dealing with a two billion dollar charge for additional fuel costs.
1:33
Speaker 1: They have to negotiate these contracts in advance. And of
1:35
Speaker 1: course it's like filling the strategic Petroleum Reserve. You want
1:39
Speaker 1: to fill it when the price of oil is like
1:41
Speaker 1: twenty five bucks, right, bring them, not when it's north
1:43
Speaker 1: of one hundred.
1:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Brian, that's that's really frustrating. I know
1:47
Speaker 2: we've talked about it before, but hey, Biden drained the
1:50
Speaker 2: spr before midterms four years ago, and then Congress didn't
1:55
Speaker 2: give Trump money to fill it back up. And we've
1:58
Speaker 2: been trying to fill it back up, but it's not
2:01
Speaker 2: where it needs to be. And you know, quite frankly,
2:04
Speaker 2: had that been done, we'd be in a lot better shape.
2:07
Speaker 2: But we're in a lot better shape than we would
2:10
Speaker 2: have been ten years.
2:10
Speaker 1: Ago because of the all the above energy policy, which
2:13
Speaker 1: allows us to be a net exporter of oil. And
2:15
Speaker 1: who in God's name would ever have thought that would
2:17
Speaker 1: have happened in our respective lifetimes.
2:19
Speaker 2: Bring him account absolutely, you know, if no, seriously, if
2:23
Speaker 2: this were the I don't know, the Obama years, we
2:26
Speaker 2: would be we'd have seven dollars gas by now.
2:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like when OPEK shut down the supplies
2:32
Speaker 1: back in the early seventies.
2:33
Speaker 2: Seventy three, the Arab boil embargo.
2:36
Speaker 1: That remember, we did not have sufficient output, we were
2:39
Speaker 1: not jeeling everywhere, we did not have modern fracking technology,
2:42
Speaker 1: and we were largely dependent upon Opek to provide us
2:45
Speaker 1: with our oil.
2:46
Speaker 2: You are absolutely spot on and how we went This
2:48
Speaker 2: is a tail that we need to remember because we
2:51
Speaker 2: supplied eighty percent of the Allied war effort energy during
2:54
Speaker 2: World War Two, and then we outsourced our life and
2:58
Speaker 2: then the seventies came up. Brian, when we were little
3:01
Speaker 2: with our parents we had to uh license plate ended
3:04
Speaker 2: and even or odd and you could get gallons, right,
3:07
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, rationing. There are no prosperous poor energy
3:12
Speaker 2: companies countries in the world. I've looked high and low.
3:15
Speaker 2: They don't exist. They don't exist. So, you know, and frankly,
3:20
Speaker 2: that's why I think Europe is in such straight right now.
3:22
Speaker 1: Well, self inflicted wounds Biden. Biden lowers taps let me
3:28
Speaker 1: start it, taps the strategic petroleum oil reserve because he
3:31
Speaker 1: is entering election, the price of fuel had gone up,
3:33
Speaker 1: so he infuses us with this extra oil for the
3:37
Speaker 1: purpose of lowering gas prices. Why were the gas prices
3:39
Speaker 1: higher because of the self inflicted wound of their crazy
3:42
Speaker 1: green energy policies. So they screw us over telling us
3:45
Speaker 1: ahead of time that the price of gasoline will necessarily increase.
3:49
Speaker 1: Ceto Barack Obama, We're going to tell you what's happening.
3:52
Speaker 1: It's all in the name of saving the planet. So
3:54
Speaker 1: they do that to us, and then how do they
3:55
Speaker 1: undo it. Well, they're trying to take away the sting
3:57
Speaker 1: of that nonsense by releasing oil from this strategy petroleum
4:00
Speaker 1: oil reserve. And as answer this question, Briga McGown. How
4:03
Speaker 1: does that help the energy or how does that help
4:05
Speaker 1: the global problem allegedly of carbon dioxide entering the atmosphere
4:09
Speaker 1: and otherwise changing the temperature of the world. It doesn't.
4:11
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't. And even if you believed that two
4:16
Speaker 2: countries China and India put out most of the CO
4:21
Speaker 2: two in the world, yep.
4:23
Speaker 1: And is that trajectory going down or is it going up?
4:26
Speaker 2: Briggan, No, it's not, because one of the things we
4:28
Speaker 2: found through our research, Brian, is that there is no
4:31
Speaker 2: such thing as an energy transition, only an energy expansion.
4:35
Speaker 1: Right, Embrace the technology as it's presented to you. Go ahead,
4:39
Speaker 1: use a windmill if you want in places where they
4:41
Speaker 1: might work, But let's get a small modular reactor in
4:44
Speaker 1: places where we don't have wind and the sun doesn't shine.
4:47
Speaker 2: I totally agree. And by the way, speaking of some
4:48
Speaker 2: of those countries, I will be in Germany later this month,
4:51
Speaker 2: and I'm curious to ask them. When I have some
4:55
Speaker 2: conversations with government officials, they said, well, we're moving beyond nuclear,
4:59
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of kind of if that's past thing.
5:01
Speaker 2: I go, oh, back to the Phoenicians and Greeks, and
5:04
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
5:04
Speaker 1: I don't get Brigham account. Hudson Institute, Hudson dot org.
5:08
Speaker 1: Don't go away. We got more to talk about energy policy.
5:10
Speaker 1: Seven thirty six right now. If you have KCD talk
5:11
Speaker 1: station at seven forty one right now, if you have
5:14
Speaker 1: krcity talk station, try to have a happy Thursday. If
5:18
Speaker 1: you can't in studio brighamcunt. I always think it's a
5:20
Speaker 1: happy event. Have Brigham in studio talking energy policy. Hudson
5:23
Speaker 1: dot org is where you find the Huntson in Stute.
5:25
Speaker 1: He is a member of and oil prices. I was
5:28
Speaker 1: just looking at futures, Brigham, and it looks like we
5:30
Speaker 1: are five percent up on crude oil continuous contract futures
5:35
Speaker 1: right now, just under one hundred bucks. Price oil has
5:38
Speaker 1: been fluctuating pretty wildly given the conflict in Iran? Is
5:41
Speaker 1: it like an appropriate fluctuation? Isn't an overreaction? Is it
5:45
Speaker 1: just sometimes I can't make sense out of market reactions.
5:49
Speaker 1: Sometimes you expect the markets to drop like a rock,
5:52
Speaker 1: and then they end up going up in spite of that.
5:54
Speaker 1: So where are we, Brigham?
5:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do well. The market. The market moves first
6:00
Speaker 2: before any barrels are lost, or before deliveries come sometimes
6:03
Speaker 2: quite frankly, I think they move a little too quickly.
6:07
Speaker 1: You know.
6:08
Speaker 2: We all talk about and even I've done this, that
6:10
Speaker 2: oil is oil and it's a global benchmark. Yes and no, right,
6:16
Speaker 2: because with oil we have a couple of different types.
6:19
Speaker 2: It can be heavy or light, and it can have
6:22
Speaker 2: a lot of sulfur in it sour or be sweet
6:25
Speaker 2: without and so not all refineries are set up for
6:29
Speaker 2: all the oil, and even if they were, we don't
6:32
Speaker 2: have a teleporter. The infrastructure system of just moving barrels
6:35
Speaker 2: around are kind of like highways. They go between two points,
6:39
Speaker 2: and that infrastructure was built for a long time. So
6:42
Speaker 2: I honestly think American oil, what we call West Texas Intermediate,
6:47
Speaker 2: is overpriced.
6:49
Speaker 1: And why is it overpriced?
6:51
Speaker 2: Well because I don't think the market or the analysts
6:54
Speaker 2: that make these predictions completely understand how global oil moves
6:59
Speaker 2: or how it doesn't move.
7:00
Speaker 1: So in terms of West Texas, Texas crude, which has
7:04
Speaker 1: a low sulfur amount and is easier I would imagine
7:07
Speaker 1: to refine than some of the higher sulfur cruds out there,
7:11
Speaker 1: it is it can only be refined, though at certain places.
7:14
Speaker 2: It can, and the way our refineries are set up
7:17
Speaker 2: in the seventies because with lack of permitting reform, we're
7:21
Speaker 2: not allowed to build a new refinery today. A lot
7:23
Speaker 2: of our refineries are indeed set up for the heavier crud,
7:27
Speaker 2: which is why Venezuela is such an important deal because
7:30
Speaker 2: you can blend that with American oil and hit that
7:34
Speaker 2: good spot.
7:34
Speaker 1: Okay, and California it just I guess is losing or
7:37
Speaker 1: just lost another refinery and that's massive, massive problem for
7:41
Speaker 1: the Californians. Almost all that is a self inflicted wound
7:44
Speaker 1: the name of global climate change or something.
7:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. And the Alliance for Renovation for
7:49
Speaker 2: Infrastructure Board that I happened to be on just A
7:52
Speaker 2: did a report on really a national security and strategic
7:57
Speaker 2: implications of that with the military bases and California not
8:00
Speaker 2: being able to move oil. But this, I mean, is
8:03
Speaker 2: really your point. We need to invest in additional infrastructure.
8:07
Speaker 2: But from an American perspective, we only get less than
8:11
Speaker 2: two percent of our oil from the Middle East, and
8:13
Speaker 2: it's more than easily made up without going there. So theoretically,
8:19
Speaker 2: if you include Canada in that mix, we've had oil
8:22
Speaker 2: the oil we need and none of this effects natural gas.
8:27
Speaker 1: Right, which we have in abundance though, And they just
8:29
Speaker 1: built a natural gas export plant down it was at Louisiana.
8:32
Speaker 1: They just recently opened that they did. I found out
8:34
Speaker 1: one of those large tankers of liquefied natural gas can
8:41
Speaker 1: power a city of three quarters of a million people
8:43
Speaker 1: for a full year.
8:44
Speaker 2: Yes, it can't insane.
8:46
Speaker 1: I could not believe that figure when I saw it is.
8:48
Speaker 2: And really the US there's winners and losers in this.
8:51
Speaker 2: And if you take out Middle Eastern natural gas, for
8:55
Speaker 2: which it's a major component around the world, it easily
8:58
Speaker 2: gets filled by American natural gas, which which is good
9:00
Speaker 2: for us. The people really hurting from the Strait being
9:03
Speaker 2: closed is China, where they get a lot of oil.
9:08
Speaker 2: Almost sixty percent of what comes out of the Persian
9:10
Speaker 2: Gulf goes to China. Another twenty percent goes to India.
9:14
Speaker 2: All right, we're up to eighty percent of the oil
9:17
Speaker 2: that so far, I haven't heard the bell ring for
9:19
Speaker 2: anybody we care about.
9:21
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you think that suggests that there would be pressure
9:23
Speaker 1: from China on the Iranians to get the straight back
9:26
Speaker 1: open and give us our damn oil.
9:27
Speaker 2: And there is now they've done a better job than us.
9:30
Speaker 2: More recently, it's stocking up everything for a rainy day,
9:34
Speaker 2: but we go out ninety to one hundred and twenty days.
9:37
Speaker 2: Their economy is in serious trouble.
9:40
Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting that we'll continue with Brigham Account from
9:43
Speaker 1: the Hudson Institute some forty five right now, seven to
9:46
Speaker 1: fifty right now. If if you bought Kercity talk station
9:47
Speaker 1: talking Energy Policy from the Hudson Institute Hudson dot Org,
9:50
Speaker 1: Brigham Account, our energy expert, and you know, bring them,
9:54
Speaker 1: you know, and are talking off the break here, and
9:56
Speaker 1: I maybe we should just I just start with this
9:58
Speaker 1: considering you know, I remember, and let me wax poetic
10:01
Speaker 1: about how awesome it was, you know, not that long ago.
10:05
Speaker 1: And I know the nineteen eighties for some people seemed
10:07
Speaker 1: like so long ago. But man, you know, the price
10:09
Speaker 1: of oil per barrel in the early eighties was only
10:12
Speaker 1: thirty seven bucks. Yeah, brig up, what's that mean?
10:17
Speaker 2: Well, and not only was it a great musical decade,
10:23
Speaker 2: but candy bars were five or ten cents. Yeah, So
10:26
Speaker 2: you know, we looked it up and in twenty twenty
10:28
Speaker 2: six dollars, that thirty seven is really one hundred and
10:32
Speaker 2: forty four dollars.
10:34
Speaker 1: Oh really, Oh well that in pesky inflation. Reality has
10:37
Speaker 1: to settle in. So when I'm staring at ninety nine
10:39
Speaker 1: dollars a barrel oil, which arguably is a lot higher
10:43
Speaker 1: than it was, or admittedly a lot higher than it
10:45
Speaker 1: was not that long ago because of the situation between
10:47
Speaker 1: the US, Israeli, and rod it's still a lot lower
10:51
Speaker 1: than things that we've weathered over the years. We've we
10:54
Speaker 1: faced these challenges before and it always ends up going
10:57
Speaker 1: back down again.
10:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And one of the things I agree
11:00
Speaker 2: with the administration on is we think this is temporary
11:03
Speaker 2: and transitional. However, that doesn't help when you go to
11:09
Speaker 2: the pump and stuff is expensive. I get that, But
11:12
Speaker 2: you know, as recently as two thousand and six, before
11:14
Speaker 2: the shale revolution really took off, barrels wear sixty six bucks,
11:20
Speaker 2: and today's dollars that's one hundred and six. So you know,
11:24
Speaker 2: we don't even have to go back to the eighties
11:26
Speaker 2: to see that with missiles flying in the Middle East
11:29
Speaker 2: in Israel and Iran at war and US slinging stuff
11:34
Speaker 2: gas is still.
11:35
Speaker 1: Only right, a dollar one hundred and fifteen bucks of barrel. Yeah,
11:39
Speaker 1: that's a great way of looking at it. What do
11:41
Speaker 1: you mean it's only one hundred fifty bucks? What is
11:43
Speaker 1: it's outrageous? Well, yeah, but there's a war going on.
11:46
Speaker 1: But thankfully, because the United States has gone for the
11:49
Speaker 1: all of the above energy policy, we can absorb and
11:53
Speaker 1: fill the demand better than we used to be able
11:56
Speaker 1: to on this global supply.
11:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and we also not only produce more, but we
12:01
Speaker 2: use more. And again I get back to this notion
12:05
Speaker 2: of North American powerhouse or Fortress North America. I like
12:09
Speaker 2: the Canadians. They can produce more oil, they can produce
12:13
Speaker 2: uranium that we're gonna need for our nuclear reactors. Yep,
12:16
Speaker 2: they have critical minerals. If we just kind of got
12:20
Speaker 2: our act together between the United States and Canada, you know,
12:25
Speaker 2: we're pretty good.
12:26
Speaker 1: We are in good shape, and it's been a good shape.
12:29
Speaker 1: Going back to your comment about refineries, and I know
12:32
Speaker 1: the idea of building one is verbot and regulatory hurdles
12:35
Speaker 1: are in front of it that make it almost impossible.
12:36
Speaker 1: Nobody wants one, and they're in the backyard anywhere. If
12:39
Speaker 1: we had theoretically, if we had more refineries here, would
12:44
Speaker 1: that alone lower the gas prices? Given the reality, though
12:47
Speaker 1: that's still a global commodity.
12:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it could certainly do that. The other
12:52
Speaker 2: thing is we end up exporting a lot of diesel
12:55
Speaker 2: to Europe. We don't use as much diesel as other
12:57
Speaker 2: parts of the world do so, and they're no pun intended.
13:01
Speaker 2: It's still thirsty for it. So yes, that that is
13:04
Speaker 2: no different than taking a John Deere tractor and exporting it.
13:08
Speaker 2: Good for America. Money comes back, yeah, yeah, trade, We
13:12
Speaker 2: get the taxes off of it as well, absolutely feeding
13:15
Speaker 2: the hungry government for the more tax dollars.
13:18
Speaker 1: So I guess where does this leave us at least
13:24
Speaker 1: as of the oil and gasoline prices. Now, I have
13:28
Speaker 1: to hope that this conflict gets resolved soon. But that's
13:31
Speaker 1: not going to result in an immediate drop in the
13:33
Speaker 1: price of fuel, is it.
13:35
Speaker 2: It's not. I mean I fuel will come down incrementally,
13:38
Speaker 2: goes up quickly, takes longer to come down unfortunately. And
13:42
Speaker 2: you know, infrastructure in the golf has been damaged by Iran.
13:46
Speaker 2: Keep this in mind. Even yesterday after the cease fire,
13:48
Speaker 2: as long as Iran was shooting missiles and drones and
13:51
Speaker 2: all of the other Arab neighbors trying to hit their infrastructure.
13:55
Speaker 1: Including their oil production.
13:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, including their oil production.
13:59
Speaker 1: How strategic leaderes that benefit I Ron.
14:02
Speaker 2: Well, Iran thinks if the regime well for the regime,
14:05
Speaker 2: this is an existential threat they and they will burn
14:08
Speaker 2: the neighborhood down on their way out there.
14:10
Speaker 1: We had a call or observe that earlier, and I
14:12
Speaker 1: can't argue that they're absolutely batcrap crazy. And this came
14:15
Speaker 1: up in the context of obtaining a nuclear weapon.
14:18
Speaker 2: Well, this is like going into a den of vultures
14:21
Speaker 2: and murderers and talking about which one among you is
14:24
Speaker 2: a reformer or a moderate. It doesn't exist. So this
14:27
Speaker 2: regime must survive at any any way it can, and
14:31
Speaker 2: it is using every tool at its disposal to try
14:33
Speaker 2: to do that. Because when you're desperate and backed in
14:35
Speaker 2: a corner, the hope is you inflict enough damage that
14:39
Speaker 2: your neighbors say stop.
14:42
Speaker 1: Or join in the fight and fight against you because
14:45
Speaker 1: you're the one that's causing the problem. Yeah.
14:47
Speaker 2: I think privately the Gulf States say, look, we can't
14:50
Speaker 2: live with these guys any longer. And where I do agree,
14:53
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with President Trump's approach in this case. However,
14:57
Speaker 2: we have been at war. Well, the Iranian regime has
15:00
Speaker 2: been at war with America for forty seven years.
15:03
Speaker 1: Yep, I remember the hostage crisis.
15:04
Speaker 2: Killed. Yeah, that's how they started off. And they have
15:07
Speaker 2: killed thousands, and they are the number one worldwide exporter
15:11
Speaker 2: of terrorism. They've got to go. The question is, and
15:14
Speaker 2: it's not going to get any better. Right, Every year
15:16
Speaker 2: we wait, it gets worse.
15:19
Speaker 1: And you put leading up to this point where apparently
15:22
Speaker 1: they are currently in control of international waters and twenty
15:27
Speaker 1: percent of the global supply fuel. That has not gotten better.
15:30
Speaker 1: It has gotten worse.
15:31
Speaker 2: It has gotten worse.
15:32
Speaker 1: You stick around at top of the our news, We've
15:33
Speaker 1: got more energy policy talk about you got a head
15:35
Speaker 1: trying to do one more. Oh right, let's do that more.
15:37
Speaker 1: One more Brigham account. Maybe get a little information in
15:39
Speaker 1: there that we haven't talked about yet. That'll be after
15:41
Speaker 1: the top of the our news I have. You can
15:42
Speaker 1: stick around eight o five at fifty five kocit the
15:45
Speaker 1: talk station. Try to have a decent Thursday, Friday Eve
15:48
Speaker 1: tomorrow check Friday with Dave Haddam. The meantime, we're talking
15:51
Speaker 1: energy policy in studio Brigham Account from Hudson inst too,
15:53
Speaker 1: and we're going to bring this back to a local
15:55
Speaker 1: issue that I struggle with. Brigham account told you about
15:57
Speaker 1: it over the break. I gave you the actual figures,
15:59
Speaker 1: but I did suffice to say that up until January
16:02
Speaker 1: of this year, I had never paid more than let's
16:05
Speaker 1: say X amount for my energy bill. The highest bill
16:08
Speaker 1: I had was X. Well, in January, my bill was
16:14
Speaker 1: X plus one hundred plus dollars, and then I got
16:19
Speaker 1: a comparable bill in February. My energy use did not change.
16:24
Speaker 1: And the vast majority of my bill is electric because
16:27
Speaker 1: I have a geothermal system. The only thing gas in
16:29
Speaker 1: my house, and they usually have a static two digit
16:32
Speaker 1: figure for gas every month, and it doesn't fluctuate by
16:35
Speaker 1: more than ten bucks, so I could take that out.
16:37
Speaker 1: So everything in my bill that had increased was electricity related,
16:42
Speaker 1: and yet I didn't use more. How in the hell
16:44
Speaker 1: did it go up from the highest bill plus one
16:46
Speaker 1: hundred dollars in one month? And this doesn't have anything
16:49
Speaker 1: to do with Iran, No.
16:51
Speaker 2: It doesn't. There you go, folks, Yeah, well, and your
16:53
Speaker 2: price reflex. You know, not only the fuel costs, but outages, transmission, congestion, weather,
16:59
Speaker 2: regional scarcity, and so forth, and so on, transmission. Here's
17:03
Speaker 2: the real piece is that part of what you're paying
17:06
Speaker 2: for is future electric generation, but part of what you're
17:10
Speaker 2: paying for a big part of it is that we
17:13
Speaker 2: don't have enough energy.
17:14
Speaker 1: Gay, here's folks, the giant red flag that you need
17:17
Speaker 1: to be listening to, because tonight there's an empower you
17:19
Speaker 1: sumonar about the dangers of artificial intelligence and the growth
17:22
Speaker 1: of data centers. One of the problems of that is
17:24
Speaker 1: the massive amount of energy they consume. So with that
17:27
Speaker 1: sort of fun fact in the back of my mind
17:29
Speaker 1: and your mind's demand demand growth and ability to meet
17:34
Speaker 1: the demand.
17:35
Speaker 2: Yeap supply is not keeping up with demand. So when
17:39
Speaker 2: we get tight, we have to go on to the
17:42
Speaker 2: spot market to try to source additional electricity because we're
17:45
Speaker 2: not making en off what we call baseload energy.
17:48
Speaker 1: And that is not we the consumer. That's the person
17:51
Speaker 1: or the entity from whom we get our electricity. Yes,
17:54
Speaker 1: and so that's pgm PGM. We have a finite amount
17:58
Speaker 1: of generatortion ability. They do, and if they get too
18:01
Speaker 1: much demand, they got to go out into the market
18:03
Speaker 1: and buy excess electricity from someone else. They do, and
18:06
Speaker 1: they pass that along to us. But we don't know
18:08
Speaker 1: that's going on until we get our energy bill, which
18:10
Speaker 1: is one hundred plus dollars more than it was the
18:12
Speaker 1: prior month out of nowhere.
18:13
Speaker 2: Correct, So that last five percent might cost fifty percent
18:16
Speaker 2: more because we didn't allocate enough. So pg think of
18:19
Speaker 2: PGM as the air traffic controller for electricity throughout the
18:25
Speaker 2: the largest actually throughout the Midwest and the North, including
18:29
Speaker 2: lovely places like Delaware and Illinois and West Virginia, Tennessee, Pennsylvania.
18:35
Speaker 2: We're all in this together, and it's actually one of
18:37
Speaker 2: the worst run regional electricity centers. And worse than that,
18:45
Speaker 2: this is where all these data centers are going right,
18:47
Speaker 2: this is where everything is going in and so that
18:52
Speaker 2: is a huge problem. And then add on to that,
18:55
Speaker 2: we don't have proper interconnections with other grid operators where
19:00
Speaker 2: the next guy over it could go, hey, I got
19:02
Speaker 2: some extra would you make some You can't get.
19:04
Speaker 1: It some sane state where they have maybe nuclear power
19:07
Speaker 1: generation or sufficient access to because they can produce it
19:11
Speaker 1: on demand at will.
19:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we failed to upgrade our energy grid throughout
19:16
Speaker 2: the last twenty three Yes, and here's the scary thing,
19:17
Speaker 2: Brian with unless we get permitting reform, which I don't
19:20
Speaker 2: think we're going to get. The grid we have today
19:23
Speaker 2: is the grid we're going to have in twenty thirty six,
19:25
Speaker 2: because it takes ten years to get anything permitted.
19:28
Speaker 1: And you're only seeing demand and consumption of electricity and
19:31
Speaker 1: energy go up. We have two hundred plus data centers
19:35
Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio right now. It's only going
19:36
Speaker 1: to be more down the road.
19:37
Speaker 2: It's only going to be more.
19:38
Speaker 1: There's going to be more population down the road.
19:40
Speaker 2: And remember we've had herbody getting pushed to electrify dry
19:43
Speaker 2: vvs that made sense, gas water heater or get an
19:46
Speaker 2: electric one. Don't do that.
19:47
Speaker 1: No, don't do that. So permitting reform is a solution.
19:51
Speaker 1: And then your and my I will suggest you can
19:54
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong with this isn't your favorite idea.
19:57
Speaker 1: We can't walk away from the concept of artific intelligence.
20:00
Speaker 1: It's here, someone's going to be doing it, whether it's
20:03
Speaker 1: in my backyard or your backyard or over in some
20:05
Speaker 1: other state. We're in competition globally with the Chinese Communist
20:09
Speaker 1: Party and other countries for AI dominance because apparently it's
20:13
Speaker 1: the wave of the future and it's going to be
20:14
Speaker 1: all important for our national defense and interests. So it's coming. Meaning,
20:19
Speaker 1: if you're building an AI data center, bring your own power,
20:24
Speaker 1: which suggests small modular reactors.
20:28
Speaker 2: Absolutely does, unless you're happening to be next to a
20:30
Speaker 2: giant pipeline full of natural gas or a waterfall or
20:33
Speaker 2: a waterfall. Fair, yeah, bring your own SMR. And that's
20:38
Speaker 2: what's going to happen, because again, you can't build these
20:41
Speaker 2: data centers in the next ten years and expect there
20:43
Speaker 2: to be more power because it's just not available.
20:45
Speaker 1: Okay, so we go back to permitting reform as a
20:47
Speaker 1: major stumbling block to actually achieving that just wonderful concept.
20:52
Speaker 2: Well, and here's the problem. You go to DC and
20:55
Speaker 2: you talk to the Democrats. Yep, we need permitting reform.
20:57
Speaker 2: Talk to the Republicans, Yes, we need permitting reform. Ridiculous.
21:00
Speaker 2: We're a nation of builders. We can't build anything great, right,
21:03
Speaker 2: so let's do it. No, Well why not? Well, I
21:05
Speaker 2: want my stuff built. I don't want that guy stuff built.
21:07
Speaker 2: It's the same law, people. If you pass permitting reform,
21:11
Speaker 2: it's for everybody, and nobody wants to do that, right now.
21:15
Speaker 1: That's just that's insane. And then the other component of
21:17
Speaker 1: permitting reform. You mentioned the grid. The same grid we're
21:19
Speaker 1: have now is the one that we're going to have
21:21
Speaker 1: twenty plus years from now. If they started trying to,
21:24
Speaker 1: you know, improve the grid, get some interconnectivity, improve connections
21:28
Speaker 1: line even within any given state that there's just massive
21:32
Speaker 1: hurdles in front of it.
21:33
Speaker 2: There are huge hurdles. Yeah, so at least ten years now.
21:36
Speaker 2: Have things been permitted in less time? Yes, if you
21:41
Speaker 2: get really lucky and don't cross federal land, you don't
21:43
Speaker 2: have endangered species, you don't have wetlands, you don't cross
21:46
Speaker 2: navigable waterways, and so forth and so on. But yeah,
21:50
Speaker 2: we have to have permitting reform in this country. The
21:53
Speaker 2: parties are going to have to work together and figure
21:55
Speaker 2: this out. And right now, I just came from DC
21:58
Speaker 2: late last week. It's not pretty up there right now.
22:02
Speaker 1: Well, and those who are not thrilled with the United
22:04
Speaker 1: States as a concept as a country, as a sort
22:07
Speaker 1: of capitalistic, successful entity, they're working collectively all these different
22:13
Speaker 1: groups out there, I think for the purposes of undermining
22:16
Speaker 1: US by fighting tooth and nail every single effort to
22:20
Speaker 1: either build more infrastructure, to build a different plan, to
22:23
Speaker 1: build a refinery, to build an LNG export facility. They're
22:27
Speaker 1: there at every turn with lawyers to run into court
22:29
Speaker 1: to stop it from happening, which adds massive costs to it.
22:32
Speaker 1: But it helps them achieve their goal.
22:35
Speaker 2: It does, it does, and me capping us well, And
22:38
Speaker 2: that's the problem when I say permitting reform with some
22:40
Speaker 2: of the environmental litigation, and when they get stopped, they
22:44
Speaker 2: just find another avenue. Right now, the Supreme Court will
22:47
Speaker 2: be taking up whether states and local governments can sue
22:52
Speaker 2: energy companies for the effects of climate change.
22:55
Speaker 1: Oh, that's just an utter load of excrement. I agree.
23:00
Speaker 1: I mean to establish a factual predicate that the climate
23:05
Speaker 1: is in fact changing based upon something. I assure you
23:10
Speaker 1: that how could you win with carbon dioxide? You and
23:12
Speaker 1: I've had when we joke about this constantly. It's plant food,
23:14
Speaker 1: it's part of the naturally occurring atmosphere. It's part of
23:16
Speaker 1: what we breathe, and plants needed to survive. It's not
23:19
Speaker 1: a pollutant. So that what we they're hanging their handing
23:22
Speaker 1: because they pduce, they ended up producing more carbon. I mean,
23:24
Speaker 1: we can't function as a society without patrollingum. There wouldn't
23:28
Speaker 1: be plastics just go on and on and on. The
23:31
Speaker 1: absurdity of trying to hold them accountable for climate change
23:33
Speaker 1: is ridiculous.
23:34
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I find interesting about it is
23:36
Speaker 2: these cities and states they're suing. I'm like, well, what
23:40
Speaker 2: powers your police cars and fire truck? What are you
23:43
Speaker 2: guys buying on it today? What are you gonna buy today?
23:46
Speaker 1: Right? How much energy does your your your environmental law
23:50
Speaker 1: firm consume every year fighting the good fight? Well, you're
23:53
Speaker 1: you're the one that's causing the problem as well, because
23:55
Speaker 1: you're exhaling. Well, stop living and breathing. Help the globe die.
23:59
Speaker 1: I'm I know, I'm kidding, but still yeah.
24:01
Speaker 2: No, you're absolutely right.
24:03
Speaker 1: That's what they're saying to the oil industry, right, Yes,
24:05
Speaker 1: help the globe stop your industry from happening. Yeah, And
24:08
Speaker 1: can just try to imagine the world if you immediately
24:11
Speaker 1: shut off patrolling right now, what would happen? Europe's figuring
24:15
Speaker 1: it out on their own, aren't they. They are.
24:17
Speaker 2: They're doing a great job too, aren't they.
24:20
Speaker 1: As long as some other country produces the oil that
24:23
Speaker 1: we are buying from them, we virtue signal because we
24:26
Speaker 1: didn't pull it out of the ground. They did. We
24:28
Speaker 1: just need it, so we bought it. And by the way,
24:30
Speaker 1: it funds the war that we're against, because they're the
24:33
Speaker 1: ones that are waging war against the country we want
24:35
Speaker 1: to defend Ukraine. So just don't pay attention to that
24:37
Speaker 1: economic reality. Either we're being green.
24:41
Speaker 2: There is a lot of green. It's called money.
24:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, lots and lots. Brigha McCown. Hudson dot Org is
24:46
Speaker 1: where you find Brigham throughout the year and week, and
24:48
Speaker 1: maybe bookmark the site and see what the Hudson Institute's
24:51
Speaker 1: all about. Brigha McCown. Always appreciate your comments on energy policy.
24:54
Speaker 1: I know you're heading out and wish you safe travels
24:56
Speaker 1: and we'll get back together again real soon.
24:58
Speaker 2: I hope that sounds great, Brian, Thank you so much
24:59
Speaker 2: for me on.
25:00
Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure, man, it really is. I see
25:02
Speaker 1: Jays on the phone if you don't mind holding there
25:03
Speaker 1: for a moment, Jay taking in the next break, and
25:06
Speaker 1: others may feel free to call in as well. Five
25:08
Speaker 1: point three seven four nine fifty five hundred, eight hundred
25:10
Speaker 1: and eight two three talk pound five fifty on AT
25:12
Speaker 1: and T phones. Got one more segment before we get
25:14
Speaker 1: to iHeartMedia aviation expert j Ratlef,