Latest / The Bill Handel Show / AI Researchers Warn of ‘Extinction’ Threat | Pensions Making a Comeback

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AI Researchers Warn of ‘Extinction’ Threat | Pensions Making a Comeback · The Bill Handel Show

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Bill Handel On Demand from KFI AM 640.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: KFI AM 640.
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  Speaker 2: Bill Handel on a Thursday morning, September the 10th. Last night,
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  Speaker 2: in a very strange political atmosphere, the president called for
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  Speaker 2: midterms during off years. midterm a midterm convention which has
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  Speaker 2: ever been done among republicans uh kind of strange and
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  Speaker 2: of course he was the keynote uh what almost two
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  Speaker 2: hours that he spoke an hour and a half and
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  Speaker 2: uh issued a free uh a couple of statements which
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: everybody's shaking their heads at one of being if the
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  Speaker 2: republicans maintain the power in congress uh everybody gets a
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  Speaker 2: five thousand dollar check it's only going to cost 1.2
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: trillion dollars and okay everybody go yeah yeah we want
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: the money okay uh And I've shared this one with
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  Speaker 2: you before. And this is a history, the history of mankind.
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  Speaker 2: And there are a few things that literally have changed
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  Speaker 2: the world completely. A couple of natural things, for example,
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  Speaker 2: opposable thumbs, which changed the way we dealt with. So,
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  Speaker 2: for example, hitchhiking. The world didn't exist in terms of
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  Speaker 2: hitchhiking until we got the thumb.
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  Speaker 1: All right, maybe not that important. Standing up.
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  Speaker 2: Which changed humanity completely instead of all fours. Okay, that
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  Speaker 2: changed the world. But those are, that's evolution.
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  Speaker 1: Now let's talk about technology that has changed the world.
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  Speaker 2: Control of fire. Man control of fire turned humanity on
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  Speaker 2: its head. One of the great, great movements in the
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  Speaker 2: history or moments in the history of mankind.
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  Speaker 1: The discovery of the wheel. changed the world completely.
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  Speaker 2: And then you have other arguments like flight, but I
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  Speaker 2: don't think it changed the world because we still would
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  Speaker 2: have gone ahead. And, you know, life could continue on.
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  Speaker 2: Wouldn't be as much fun, but it would have. Now
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  Speaker 2: a few things that have changed the world completely on
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  Speaker 2: its head, and it's happened the last 50 years. One,
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  Speaker 2: the introduction of the computer completely changed the world. The
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  Speaker 2: other one, the introduction of the internet, changed how we live,
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  Speaker 2: how we shop, how we communicate. And that's connected, of course,
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  Speaker 2: to the world of computers. And now the scary one,
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  Speaker 2: that is flipping people out, including not only governmental officials,
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  Speaker 2: but the very inventors of AI. And AI is really
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  Speaker 2: scaring people like crazy. When computers were introduced, there was
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  Speaker 2: nothing scary about computers. Everybody thought they were great. You
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  Speaker 2: had a few young people who created computers that created
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  Speaker 2: the early computer, Apple being the first computer that really worked.
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  Speaker 2: The personal computer, HP, was there. And, you know, no
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  Speaker 2: one was frightened of computers. I mean, there were a
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  Speaker 2: few Luddites there. who said, oh my God, computers are
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  Speaker 2: going to take over the business and people will lose
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  Speaker 2: their jobs. Yeah, same thing with manufacturing, the same thing with,
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  Speaker 2: you know.
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  Speaker 1: Any kind of new technology. The internet, people weren't really
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  Speaker 1: frightened of the internet.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, not even close. I mean, people thought the
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  Speaker 2: internet was kind of neat. I mean, there were a
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  Speaker 2: few people that were not happy with the internet, but
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  Speaker 2: the manufacturers, the people that invented it, the people that
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  Speaker 2: started using it, the companies started using it. It was,
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  Speaker 2: for the most part, positive stuff. Now comes AI. And
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  Speaker 2: this is a different animal. Because when we talk about
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  Speaker 2: the science fiction of computers taking over the world, robots
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  Speaker 2: taking over the world, what's the first.
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  Speaker 1: Rule of robots?
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  Speaker 2: Do not harm humans. And what's the second rule? Well,
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  Speaker 2: you can do anything that you're asked to do except
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  Speaker 2: for violating the first rule.
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  Speaker 1: And what is the third rule? I don't know what
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  Speaker 1: the third rule was.
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  Speaker 2: I just you can't violate rule number two or violate
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  Speaker 2: number rule number three. Amy is laughing at me because
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  Speaker 2: I'm making a very important point.
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  Speaker 1: I'm laughing at you because. You were saying, what's the
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  Speaker 1: third rule? And Anne said, what happens in Vegas stays
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  Speaker 1: in Vegas. Oh, that's very strong. I like that. That's
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  Speaker 1: very good. It's like Hamas.
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  Speaker 2: If you look at the Constitution of Hamas, right, the
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  Speaker 2: first chapter is, let's destroy Israel. Number two is look
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  Speaker 2: at number one, and number three is look at number
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  Speaker 2: two and look at number one. It's along those lines.
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  Speaker 2: But this is really scary stuff, AI. And I'll tell
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  Speaker 2: you why it's so frightening. Because the very people who
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  Speaker 2: are involved in the creation and the furtherance of this
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  Speaker 2: technology are looking at AI as an existential threat to humanity. Now,
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  Speaker 2: usually that's a science fiction movie. Usually it's crackpots that
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  Speaker 2: are saying, ah, come on. You know, are robots really
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  Speaker 2: going to take over? Well, it's not going to be
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  Speaker 2: robots that are going to take over. It's going to
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  Speaker 2: be AI, the very intelligence that creates those robots. For example,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Japanese blow-up dolls that really look and do
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  Speaker 2: the job they're supposed to do. Okay, I had to
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  Speaker 2: go off on a tangent on that one, and Kono
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  Speaker 2: didn't even laugh. That was for the purposes of Kono,
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  Speaker 2: by the way.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. You've done better. I have done better. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: very much. Okay, finishing up or continuing the story about
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  Speaker 1: AI as one of the biggest, hugest changes in the
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  Speaker 1: world of mankind, literally. Fire was one. The wheel was another.
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  Speaker 2: The internet, the computers, I mean, changing everything. AI may
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  Speaker 2: literally be the most life-changing, mankind-changing item that exists today.
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  Speaker 2: And as the companies like ChatGP, OpenAI, and Anthropic, and Google,
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  Speaker 2: and all the other big ones, big companies, Amazon, moving
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  Speaker 2: balls to the wall to get AI going, a lot
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  Speaker 2: of people within the AI world are saying, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 2: we're talking about people that are part of the world
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  Speaker 2: of AI.
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  Speaker 1: There's a researcher at.
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  Speaker 2: Anthropic, and he just said, that the systems that his
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  Speaker 2: company is racing to build carries the risk, and this
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  Speaker 2: is all AI companies, carries the risk of causing human extinction.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: Evan Humbinger, who wrote in responding to this researcher who
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  Speaker 2: has resigned, we really do earnestly believe AI could kill
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  Speaker 2: all humans. I personally think 10% or so within the
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  Speaker 2: next decade.
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  Speaker 1: He put that on X. He was part of Anthropic.
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  Speaker 2: I believe Anthropic is trying its best, but we don't
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  Speaker 2: have a plan to solve alignment for superintelligence, and we're
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  Speaker 2: not clearly on track to. And he was responding to
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  Speaker 2: a resignation of one of his colleagues in Anthropic. Now,
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  Speaker 2: this actually is a long-held position from the time AI started,
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  Speaker 2: because there are people, and they're growing in the industry now,
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  Speaker 2: saying that the technology is going to pose an existential
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  Speaker 2: risk to the human race. Now, on the other side,
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  Speaker 2: that's sharply contested in the field, and they see this
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  Speaker 2: as science fiction inflected doom-mongering, but it's gaining greater toehold,
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  Speaker 2: more traction.
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  Speaker 3: Why?
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  Speaker 2: Because the latest versions of anthropic and open AI systems
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  Speaker 2: have been able to, on their own, without being told to,
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  Speaker 2: hack into computer networks, escaping restrictions, escaping guardrails that were
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  Speaker 2: put in by their creators and on their own hacking. Now,
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  Speaker 2: that is scary stuff. I mean, really scary stuff. And
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  Speaker 2: that's just the start of what AI is able to
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  Speaker 2: do because it learns. I just read yesterday that AI
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  Speaker 2: was able to answer a couple of mathematical problems that
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  Speaker 2: have been impossible for humans to answer, even though they've
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  Speaker 2: been going after it for, I mean, dozens and dozens
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  Speaker 2: of years. And the AI program was able to do
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  Speaker 2: it in 88 hours, where humans, it would have taken
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  Speaker 2: thousands of years. Some Democrats, lawmakers have seized on this
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  Speaker 2: resignation to call for new restrictions on technology. Bernie Sanders, Greg.
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  Speaker 1: Cesar, a.
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  Speaker 2: Republican, I'm sorry, Representative Cesar, a Democrat out of Texas,
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  Speaker 2: they both announced legislation last week that would ban the
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  Speaker 2: production of AI and create a new federal agency to
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  Speaker 2: oversee any technology.
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  Speaker 1: You know who's also on that side? Senator Ted Cruz. Agreed.
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  Speaker 1: You don't often see Ted Cruz agreeing with Bernie Sanders.
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  Speaker 2: He is the chair of a committee that oversees AI,
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  Speaker 2: and he is working on legislation to tackle what is
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  Speaker 2: being considered catastrophic risks. We can't stick our heads in
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  Speaker 2: the sand and pretend this technology isn't happening, Cruz.
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  Speaker 1: Said.
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  Speaker 2: We need guardrails, but America needs to lead. And here
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  Speaker 2: is the problem. Here's what the fear is. The collision
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  Speaker 2: between the capabilities of AI models and especially future versions
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  Speaker 2: that are being called super intelligence, able to do super intelligent,
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  Speaker 2: able to do stuff that humans can and on their own,
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  Speaker 2: on its own doing it, and the ability of their
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  Speaker 2: creators to keep them linked to human goals.
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  Speaker 1: This is alignment.
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  Speaker 2: And AI agents, AI programs are blowing past alignment for sure.
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  Speaker 2: And here is the contradiction here. Because the various leaders,
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  Speaker 2: the very leaders of AI, head of these programs, head
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  Speaker 2: of these companies, are saying, we need government to control
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  Speaker 2: where we're going. We need safeguards, desperately. And as they're
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  Speaker 2: saying that, what is their company doing? going balls to
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  Speaker 2: the wall to create AI and to make it more effective,
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  Speaker 2: to make it more influential, to speed ahead, spending billions
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  Speaker 2: of dollars to advance AI as quickly as possible, and
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  Speaker 2: raising tons of money, and of course, building these data centers,
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  Speaker 2: which are controversial in and of themselves. And where is
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  Speaker 2: the threat? Is it robots? Is it people being killed off? No,
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  Speaker 2: not really. But I, you know what, I can't even
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  Speaker 2: see where it's going. Now, I told you that a
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  Speaker 2: big part of our program years ago, and I did
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  Speaker 2: commercials for a gentleman named Corey Hong, who was one
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  Speaker 2: of the early, early developers of software, who became a
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  Speaker 2: billionaire in his own right. And he pitched his company,
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  Speaker 2: not because he was trying to sell anything. He just
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  Speaker 2: wanted to pitch his company. And I once asked him,
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  Speaker 2: now that the Internet is here, this was the Internet,
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  Speaker 2: not AI, because this was before AI. And I asked him,
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  Speaker 2: where do you think the Internet is going? Now, this
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  Speaker 2: is a man who was a creator of early software
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  Speaker 2: who knew this stuff more than anybody I knew and
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  Speaker 2: was one of the true experts in the field. And
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  Speaker 2: he said to me in reference to that question, where
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  Speaker 2: is the internet going?
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  Speaker 1: And he said, in your wildest imagination... You will not
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  Speaker 1: be able to guess where it's going. I have no idea.
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  Speaker 2: What I do know is no matter what I think
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  Speaker 2: is going to happen, it's going to go way beyond that.
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  Speaker 2: Now let's multiply that. Let's extrapolate that in an order
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  Speaker 2: of magnitude. And now we have AI. Man, the world
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  Speaker 2: is changing. Big time. Let's go back to inventing fires. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: we are inventing fires again or controlling fires. Just look
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  Speaker 2: at the wildfires that are going on.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Pensions.
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  Speaker 2: Now I've been saying that pensions were a thing of
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  Speaker 2: the past. For those people that are working, let's go
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: back a few years, a couple of decades actually. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: we would be talking about number one, working for the
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: same company, graduating college, or let's say you're finishing high
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: school and you start working for a major company. And
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: chances are you would stay at that company until you retire.
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  Speaker 2: A whole lot of people would. And part and parcel
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  Speaker 2: of your retirement, in addition to Social Security and saving
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  Speaker 2: money up, were pensions. Pensions that were paid outside of
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  Speaker 2: all of the other savings. And people had pensions, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: some are great. For example, governmental patients.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, pensions.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good thing. You work for the county.
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  Speaker 2: You work for the city, depending on the city. You
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: work for the state. You're in good shape if you
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  Speaker 2: work there for 30 years. So those pensions have remained.
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  Speaker 2: How about in private business? Those pensions have disappeared. I wonder,
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  Speaker 2: did iHeart ever have a pension? Before iHeart, when it
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: was Clear Channel. I don't remember if they, I think
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  Speaker 2: they did. They never had a pension, this company?
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  Speaker 3: The last pensions were when we were owned by Cox.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: in the world when we were at Cox. Before iHeart,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: we were Clear Channel, right?
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: And then I said, and before that, I think there
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  Speaker 1: was a pension.
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  Speaker 2: Cox, yes.
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  Speaker 1: I know that for sure. That was Cox.
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  Speaker 2: And then they got rid of it because, frankly, pensions
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  Speaker 2: are expensive. And are paid for by the employer. Now,
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  Speaker 2: some unions have a pension. For example, our union, AFTRA,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: American Federation of Television and Radio Artists.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: They actually call us artists. That's so bizarre. And they
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: call us talent, too. Yeah, I mean, crazy.
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  Speaker 2: I once was talking to a director of major films,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and I said, how difficult is it to direct these
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: high-end actors?
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And he said, Bill, here's what a director does.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: He tells the actors to walk around the furniture instead
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of through the furniture. That is the job of a director.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: He was a little cynical about it, to say the least. Now,
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  Speaker 2: our union has a pretty good pension, and it is
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  Speaker 2: funded pretty well. the problem is pensions disappeared because they
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: are expensive and it's been a fight like crazy. And pensions,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: by the way, are coming back a lot because the
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  Speaker 2: union is fighting for them. Unions are having a difficult
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  Speaker 2: time just getting more money and more benefits when benefits
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  Speaker 2: are going south. So part of the union negotiations is
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: tell you what, give us a pension or increase our
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: pension and, And that is easier for companies to deal
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  Speaker 2: with because it's very little money stretched over a bunch
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: of years as opposed to here is a raise right now.
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  Speaker 2: The other reason pensions are being given out more and
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: more is to win over employees in fields where recruiting
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  Speaker 2: and retaining workers is especially competitive. For example, in the
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  Speaker 2: world of computers, right? You know, there really are hiring
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and there are entry-level jobs. Assuming you're going to an
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Ivy League school and you're in the top 10% getting out.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: There you get your job. Same thing with law schools.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: You know, you can graduate and get a job as
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: a lawyer at $ 180, 000.
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  Speaker 1: A year starting. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: What school do you have to go to and where
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  Speaker 2: in the top percentage you have to be? The point
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  Speaker 2: is things have been much, much more difficult. So 401ks,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, which are different than pensions, 401ks, you
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: put the money in and there is a match by
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the company, up to 3% usually or 2%, and some
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: companies very generous, up to 5%.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And there used to be a time when it was 100%.
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  Speaker 2: They would match dollar per dollar what you put in
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: in the 401k plans. Incidentally, even if it is a 3% match,
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  Speaker 2: So let's say you make $ 50, 000 a year or $ 70, 000
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a year, and it's a 3% match. That's what, $ 2, 100,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: which over the course of your working lifetime is serious money.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And keep in mind, you put in that 3% and
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: there's matching money. That's 100% return on that money, assuming
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't grow at all. So pensions are coming
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  Speaker 2: back and there are pensions that are not funded that
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: are going to disappear. There are pensions that are fully
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: funded and run by administrators. If a company runs its
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: own pension and it goes bankrupt, child, baby, you're done.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: If a company is if the pension is run by
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: an outside administrator and the money is already put in,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you're in pretty good shape. So. number of companies that
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: are increasing pensions or getting pensions back or instituting pensions
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  Speaker 2: pretty small.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And the reason you were looking at it is because
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: they are growing. Those companies are growing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the things you look at, you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: depending on how desperate it is for you to find
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: a job and what industry you're in. that pensions are
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: a good thing. I just kept on bitching and moaning
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: that pensions have disappeared.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Not so much anymore. Not so much. Okay, a story
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: about homelessness.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Which does a week go past where we don't do
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: a story once at least?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: About homeless, if not more.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: So this is a story that we have covered before
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: of LASA, the LA Homeless Service Authority.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And it's the main homeless.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Agency, homelessness agency here, certainly in LA County or Los Angeles,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: because they do it together. And LASA has been told,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: you know what? You no longer automatically get money. You
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: now have to compete with against other agencies, other organizations
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: to retain federal role and money. And all of a sudden,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the prospect of this city-county partnership, decades old, could be undone, over, goodbye.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: And county leaders are planning, the county is planning to.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Bid for control of the systems. L.A.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: City is considering building its own city-led response. All of
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: it in frustration with LASA's performance. Federal auditors, court rulings
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: against LASA has spotlighted data weaknesses and just how horribly
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: it's run.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: And now there's a nationwide.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Search for new overseers of the region's federal homeless funding
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and data systems and housing placements. And this has to
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: do with a whole lot of money being given to LASA.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And I mean a whole lot of money. There is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: a board that no one really pays attention to that
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: oversees L.A.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: 's federal homelessness funds.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And they published a request for new applicants for the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: four federally mandated functions, core functions that make up LASA's work.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: And this is a really strange little agency, the Los
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Angeles Continuum of Care Agency. And it actually can and
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: does control what happens with homelessness.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And on Wednesday, they were going to vote.
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  Speaker 2: Last Wednesday, didn't have a quorum, but they have to
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: have a vote before October 13th to formally.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Issue their request for applicants.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And the bottom line is that the way L.A., the
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: way LASA has performed is miserable. The argument that it
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: is full of corruption, don't know that if money has
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: been stolen. Certainly mismanagement, that there's no issue. And so
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: the mayor, Karen Bass, who is actually head of LASA,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the commission, who has overseen the last, what, four years,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: almost four years of this miserable, miserably run organization that
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: is not doing a good job with homelessness issues. here's
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: her statement from her office. The mayor's firsthand experience at
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Lhasa reinforced her understanding that our current system is broken
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: and in need of a major overhaul. She now has
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: a better understanding of how horrible she was. Huh. Okay.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of, a lot of mirrors in that office
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Now, to be fair, And I've mentioned this before, the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: issue of homelessness in Southern California, I think is so difficult.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: It is so, it's impossible to actually deal with it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And it will be dealt with incrementally, but to deal
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: with it in any major way, much like housing, takes
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: so much money, takes so many resources. $ 2 billion in
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: homeless spending with LASA that is unaccounted for?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Like, they don't have verification, tracking, another over $ 500 million
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: that went unspent?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: How much more do you need? And we don't know. Now,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the argument, there's been lots of corruption. I don't think
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: anybody has been charged with corruption with LASA, if I'm
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: not mistaken. It's because, you know, as I said before,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much actual corruption is there.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: There's been a.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Lot of conflicts where you have city people, you've got administrators,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: you've got elected officials whose wives, sons, friends were.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Were involved with LASA. They had contracts.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Now, did they steal money or is just the conflict
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: of interest there? Well, I believe there's a conflict of interest.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there was out and out corruption.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I do know per your statement that this is one
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: of those agencies that have been so horribly mismanaged. So
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: God awful in the amount of money that it's spent
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and what it has done. that we're going to see
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: there's bids to override LASA, saying let's get rid of LASA.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: City wants to set up its own. County wants to
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: set up its own. You've got private organizations want to
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: set up their own. And all of them going in
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: front of this Los Angeles continuum.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Of care, this board. All right. Coming up.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Talking about a billion dollars, the Lucas Museum is about
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: to open and there are lawsuits aplenty.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And there's also a fair amount of controversy. And the
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: question is, is it public? Is it private?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And why that's important, at least to the city and
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: to a couple of people that are suing because they
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: haven't gotten paid or so they say from the museum.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: This is KFI AM 640.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to The Bill Handel Show. Catch my
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: show Monday through Friday, 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.