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Why You Can’t Stop Eating Bad Food — The Big Tobacco Connection · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: What's in our food. They don't actually want you to
0:02
Speaker 1: know what's in your pantry. You think you're feeding your family,
0:04
Speaker 1: but you're walking into a toxic thirteen billion dollar trap.
0:08
Speaker 1: Decades ago, Big Tobacco quietly bought up the American food supply,
0:12
Speaker 1: unleashing their addiction scientists to weaponize exactly what it is
0:16
Speaker 1: we're eating today. Investigator Patrick Sullivan exposes the exact blueprint
0:21
Speaker 1: and the FDA loophole leaving it a secret. We're naming
0:24
Speaker 1: names right now. Are you starting to identify something in
0:28
Speaker 1: our diet that could be leading us down the road
0:30
Speaker 1: to more cancer, more disease?
0:32
Speaker 2: Well, Joe, let me give you three interesting facts that
0:36
Speaker 2: we discovered in making this film. Number One, in nineteen
0:39
Speaker 2: eighty five, R. J. Reynolds bought Nabisco for five billion dollars.
0:45
Speaker 2: Number two, in nineteen eighty eight, Philip Morris bought Craft
0:50
Speaker 2: Foods for thirteen billion dollars. And these were just a
0:53
Speaker 2: couple of the very large M and A transactions that
0:57
Speaker 2: happened in the nineteen eighties. In fact, number three, by
1:01
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen nineties, wouldn't you know it, Big tobacco
1:04
Speaker 2: controlled about forty percent of the American food supply. What
1:08
Speaker 2: could possibly go wrong?
1:10
Speaker 1: You know, I got to stop you there because I
1:11
Speaker 1: didn't know all of that going into this interview. So
1:14
Speaker 1: let's break that down. I was a TV news anchor
1:15
Speaker 1: when all that was going on, when the billboards had
1:18
Speaker 1: to go up saying, you know, the smoking causes cancer,
1:21
Speaker 1: when they had to admit that. In their actual paperwork
1:22
Speaker 1: it said we added more nicotine to keep them hooked.
1:25
Speaker 1: But we actually had stories and reports that said they
1:28
Speaker 1: were pushing this on minority communities and so on. You're
1:30
Speaker 1: telling me the big tobacco that had to pay billions
1:33
Speaker 1: and billions of dollars in settlements because it was making
1:36
Speaker 1: people die and it was lying to people about what
1:39
Speaker 1: was inside their product now controls our Food. How did
1:41
Speaker 1: that happen?
1:43
Speaker 2: Well? Calli Means, who was a major feature in the documentary.
1:48
Speaker 2: Calli Means, author of the co author of the book
1:51
Speaker 2: Good Energy, with his sister, doctor Casey Means, who, by
1:55
Speaker 2: the way, now I think potentially going to be America's
1:59
Speaker 2: next surgeon jet. They together wrote a book called Good Energy,
2:04
Speaker 2: and it talks about they were very much inspired by
2:07
Speaker 2: their mother and her late cancer diagnosis that she died
2:12
Speaker 2: thirteen days after diagnosis. Very amazing, very tragic, very all
2:17
Speaker 2: of the sudden. But as Calli and Casey talk about,
2:20
Speaker 2: their mom was sort of the classic baby boomer that
2:24
Speaker 2: had five different pharmaceuticals, thought she was eating healthy with
2:29
Speaker 2: hummus and ranch dressing and things like that, but ended
2:33
Speaker 2: up with basically the worst scenario imaginable, dying from cancer
2:38
Speaker 2: thirteen days after diagnosis. So Calli, the reason I bring
2:45
Speaker 2: him up is that he really talks about CALLI used
2:47
Speaker 2: to be a former government I'm sorry, Kelly, used to
2:51
Speaker 2: be a former lobbyist working on behalf of Coca Cola
2:55
Speaker 2: and other companies like that to get people like the
2:59
Speaker 2: American Diabetes Association to say no, no, no, these sugary
3:02
Speaker 2: soft drinks, these are okay. So in the documentary Breaking
3:07
Speaker 2: Big Food, we kind of start to disclose and pull
3:09
Speaker 2: back the scenes of that. Really, what Calli talks about
3:13
Speaker 2: is that Big Tobacco was facing the end of this
3:17
Speaker 2: very long profitable run selling cigarettes and the jig was up,
3:22
Speaker 2: so they had to put their money in another place. Well,
3:26
Speaker 2: food companies is where they turn.
3:27
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. Patrick Sullivan, a co executive producer along with
3:30
Speaker 1: his wife Ashley of Breaking Big Food got a Breaking
3:32
Speaker 1: Bigfood dot com. It's available now on both Apple and
3:36
Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime.
3:37
Speaker 2: Right correct.
3:39
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's get into what we started to
3:41
Speaker 1: find out here. First question asked to be did the
3:44
Speaker 1: food become more processed when the tobacco companies bought them?
3:48
Speaker 1: Did they start doing something that changed the food supply
3:51
Speaker 1: that makes us hooked on the food like they had
3:53
Speaker 1: us hooked on cigarettes?
3:56
Speaker 2: In one word, yes you. I'm sure the audience will
4:00
Speaker 2: remember the famous Las commercial no one can eat just one. Yes. Well,
4:05
Speaker 2: the scientists at Big Tobacco were kind of reshuffled over
4:10
Speaker 2: to Big Food, and they said, how do we make
4:11
Speaker 2: this cheaper and more addictive, and how do we make
4:14
Speaker 2: it last longer? Well, they started working with all these
4:17
Speaker 2: different chemicals and saying, oh, well this amount of seed oil,
4:20
Speaker 2: you know, using this instead, it won't go rancid. You
4:23
Speaker 2: can have a piece of bread or whatever stay on
4:26
Speaker 2: the shelf for three years. Now, except if it can
4:29
Speaker 2: stay on the shelf for three years, how can our bodies,
4:32
Speaker 2: how can our gi track break it down and digest
4:36
Speaker 2: it into food? So, unfortunately we've end up with the
4:40
Speaker 2: convenience of modern ultra processed food. But it's really not
4:46
Speaker 2: the food that any of our ancestors would have eaten.
4:49
Speaker 2: And I would say that there is a very strong
4:52
Speaker 2: argument to make that there is a very tight correlation
4:55
Speaker 2: between the rise of all of these chronic health conditions
5:00
Speaker 2: that we're facing and the way that the food supply
5:03
Speaker 2: has been weaponized against us. I don't know if they
5:07
Speaker 2: meant to do it. I don't know if profit motive
5:10
Speaker 2: was basically taken too far. And hey, if your job
5:13
Speaker 2: is to get more earnings per share, wouldn't you want
5:16
Speaker 2: to try and figure out how to make your food cheaper,
5:18
Speaker 2: last longer, and be more addictive.
5:21
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a great question, but I don't think
5:23
Speaker 1: you have to make food addictive. We need to eat food.
5:25
Speaker 1: You know, if you're somebody who produces food and supplies food,
5:28
Speaker 1: you're going to sell your product because we get hungry
5:30
Speaker 1: and we have to eat it. Fuels us. I hate
5:33
Speaker 1: hearing that they were adding things and so on and
5:35
Speaker 1: so forth that kept it good on the shelf for
5:37
Speaker 1: two or three years. That's actually kind of disgusting. Having
5:40
Speaker 1: said that, you mentioned seed oils, and a lot of
5:42
Speaker 1: people could plain about seed oils now I don't use
5:43
Speaker 1: any of them. I use beef tallow only when I'm cooking,
5:46
Speaker 1: and you stay away from seed oils if you can
5:48
Speaker 1: find out what's in there. So I think before I
5:50
Speaker 1: even get into specifically that item, how did they get
5:53
Speaker 1: away with this? And what I mean is I've always thought,
5:56
Speaker 1: and I think people watching listening you've always thought somebody
5:59
Speaker 1: in the governments looking at for us. Now we've found
6:01
Speaker 1: out through COVID that probably that isn't the case. But
6:04
Speaker 1: we thought that going in that the food supply at
6:06
Speaker 1: least is going to be safe. It's going to be
6:08
Speaker 1: something we can eat. It's not gonna harm, it's not
6:09
Speaker 1: gonna cause disease. How did they get away with adding
6:11
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff? Isn't there an oversight some overlord
6:15
Speaker 1: of the government that says, the USDA, the FDA, the CDC, HHS, whatever,
6:19
Speaker 1: that would say you can't do that tobacco companies because
6:22
Speaker 1: that would be bad for people. Nobody took a look
6:25
Speaker 1: at what they were adding, or do they not tell us?
6:28
Speaker 2: It feels like COVID revealed something incredibly important to us
6:32
Speaker 2: as Americans about our government and specifically about the regulators
6:36
Speaker 2: in that they're not paying attention and they are captured.
6:42
Speaker 2: It would be hard to argue anything other than that.
6:45
Speaker 2: And I would say that in the case of ingredients
6:50
Speaker 2: that have snuck into the food system. There's actually been
6:54
Speaker 2: a lot of discussion about this lately online and thanks
6:57
Speaker 2: to Robert F. Kennedy Junior, the HHS Secretary, talking about
7:01
Speaker 2: grass GRAS, which stands for generally recognized as safe. Essentially
7:09
Speaker 2: what that policy is. It was implemented I believe in
7:12
Speaker 2: the late eighties. I might I don't have the date
7:14
Speaker 2: exactly right, but it was implemented because FDA could not
7:18
Speaker 2: keep up with the food companies requests to use new
7:23
Speaker 2: ingredients in the food supply. So they created this idea
7:27
Speaker 2: of like, well, if you can regulate yourself food company
7:31
Speaker 2: and say that it's generally recognized as safe, then we'll
7:36
Speaker 2: allow you to use it. In other words, we'll try
7:40
Speaker 2: and figure out on the back end if an ingredient
7:43
Speaker 2: is harmful, because on the front end we'll just say
7:46
Speaker 2: it's generally recognized as safe. In hindsight, that sounds insane.
7:52
Speaker 1: It does well. I mean, one would think that they
7:55
Speaker 1: would have to get the approval to use it before
7:56
Speaker 1: they can use it. But if it's called generally recognized
7:59
Speaker 1: as say put it in there, they we'll figure it
8:01
Speaker 1: out later. I mean, now we're finding out that there's
8:04
Speaker 1: a lot more disease now, a lot more obesity now,
8:06
Speaker 1: as I said, And if you just look at videos
8:08
Speaker 1: of Americans in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, even
8:11
Speaker 1: the eighties compared to today, it's a sea change. It's
8:14
Speaker 1: a world of difference. And now we're all relying on
8:16
Speaker 1: GLP ones to take care of the problem that was
8:18
Speaker 1: caused by the food supply. It is Patrick Sullivan, Co
8:21
Speaker 1: executive producer, Breaking Big Food. Go to breakingdef Bigfood dot com.
8:24
Speaker 1: Check it out on Apple TV or on Amazon Prime Video.
8:27
Speaker 1: All right, So is RFK Junior getting rid of the
8:31
Speaker 1: grass technology of the grass thought process, that mechanism and
8:35
Speaker 1: maybe doing something where we do check it out first,
8:37
Speaker 1: or do we have good studies And I'm sure I'll
8:39
Speaker 1: find this out in the documentary, do we have good
8:41
Speaker 1: studies saying a lot of what you've been eating for
8:43
Speaker 1: the past twenty thirty years is bad? And RFK Junior
8:46
Speaker 1: is saying get rid of it, because I know he's
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Speaker 1: getting a lot of pushback, probably by the big lobbyist
8:50
Speaker 1: for these big companies.
8:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would seem that the lobbyists of big food
8:56
Speaker 2: stand to lose a lot the standard, the GRASS standard.
9:03
Speaker 2: I don't really know what's gonna happen with that, and
9:05
Speaker 2: that is a great question. RFK has talked certainly a
9:08
Speaker 2: lot about that. One of the things that food Babe
9:11
Speaker 2: should get a lot of credit for. The Food Babe
9:13
Speaker 2: online is showing side by side comparisons of fruit loops
9:19
Speaker 2: in America versus fruit loops in Canada and all these
9:22
Speaker 2: other countries where certain dyes, in particular petroleum based food
9:28
Speaker 2: dyes are not generally recognized as safe. And so General
9:33
Speaker 2: Mills or Nobisco or whoever that is making these processed
9:37
Speaker 2: food cereals is saying, okay, well, in order to sell
9:40
Speaker 2: our food in Canada, in New Zealand, in Australia, in Italy,
9:45
Speaker 2: we have to use red beet juice instead of red
9:49
Speaker 2: dye forty. But in America they just keep on using
9:52
Speaker 2: red dye forty. So I don't know what's going to
9:55
Speaker 2: happen to GRASS. I think that is basically as big
10:00
Speaker 2: fight as any fight that Americans can be having. I
10:04
Speaker 2: will give you one hopeful note that started to happen
10:09
Speaker 2: right after RFK became the age of just secretary. He
10:13
Speaker 2: held a meeting, a large meeting with many of the
10:16
Speaker 2: big food producers that were there. But you know, big
10:19
Speaker 2: food being the Nibiscos and the Crafts and all these
10:22
Speaker 2: brands that we Americans see on all the grocery store shelves,
10:25
Speaker 2: and food dies, petroleum based food dies were specifically the
10:30
Speaker 2: area that he began to target and say, guys, we're
10:33
Speaker 2: going to be getting rid of these. And the response,
10:36
Speaker 2: apparently from big food was thank.
10:39
Speaker 1: You, and that sounds like that would be a weird response.
10:42
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, how does that make any sense? They're the
10:44
Speaker 1: ones that were doing it well.
10:47
Speaker 2: The problem is if Craft for example, can use red
10:53
Speaker 2: dye forty and kellogg says, well, we're going to stop
10:56
Speaker 2: using this. We believe that, we believe all this research
10:59
Speaker 2: that as gosh, these petroleum based food dies might be
11:03
Speaker 2: causing lots of health issues, it makes a lot of
11:05
Speaker 2: sense we're going to stop using it. The problem is
11:08
Speaker 2: if Nibisco keeps using it, then Kellogg's is now at
11:11
Speaker 2: a competitive disadvantage because they're having more expensive natural food
11:16
Speaker 2: dyes like a beat juice and they don't have as
11:19
Speaker 2: bright a color of cereal or bright a color of
11:22
Speaker 2: whatever products. So what the industry seemed to be telling
11:27
Speaker 2: RFK is like, look, remove all that stuff for all
11:31
Speaker 2: of us, so that we're all on a level playing field.
11:35
Speaker 2: I don't know fully the backstory of that. That's kind
11:39
Speaker 2: of what I've heard whispered around. I would like to
11:42
Speaker 2: believe that that does make sense. I don't think Kellogg
11:45
Speaker 2: wants to get sued. I don't think Nibisco wants to
11:47
Speaker 2: get sued. I don't think they want to hurt people
11:49
Speaker 2: with their products. I just think they're trying to be competitive.
11:52
Speaker 2: They're not trying to lose money, and they're trying to
11:54
Speaker 2: kind of undo some decisions that were basically set in
11:59
Speaker 2: motion almost forty years ago.
12:01
Speaker 1: Patrick Sullivan, co executive producer, Breaking Big Food. Go to
12:03
Speaker 1: Breaking Bigfood dot com. Check it out on an Apple
12:05
Speaker 1: TV and also an Amazon Prime. Let's talk about the
12:08
Speaker 1: advertising and how it's almost exactly the same as what
12:12
Speaker 1: the cigarette advertising was. You had Joe Cammel, you had cartoons,
12:16
Speaker 1: you had all sorts of I remember growing up and
12:19
Speaker 1: going to the whatever store with my mom and seeing
12:22
Speaker 1: a pack of Lucky strikes on the shelf for kids.
12:25
Speaker 1: That was just gum and a little bit of powder
12:27
Speaker 1: you could blow out of the cigarette to make it
12:29
Speaker 1: look like you were smoking. They were indoctrinating us and
12:32
Speaker 1: convincing us that smoking was cool. Everybody was cool who
12:35
Speaker 1: smoked in movies? Are they doing the same thing with food?
12:38
Speaker 1: I'm guessing yes, because you're talking about very vibrant colors
12:41
Speaker 1: and cartoon characters and so on on the packaging, and
12:44
Speaker 1: you can't just eat just one and all the cool
12:46
Speaker 1: kids are eating lays. I'm guessing they're doing the same thing,
12:49
Speaker 1: just in a different product. If we get the kids,
12:51
Speaker 1: we'll get them for life.
12:53
Speaker 2: That's right. Saturday Morning cartoons. I grew up watching them,
12:56
Speaker 2: and I'm old enough to remember those fake cigarettes I
12:59
Speaker 2: had them and thinking, yeah, I'm cool.
13:02
Speaker 1: Same thing.
13:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, can you believe they got away with that?
13:06
Speaker 1: No, it can't.
13:07
Speaker 2: Kind of insane.
13:08
Speaker 1: How are they doing it when in reference to food,
13:11
Speaker 1: is it just a matter of cartoon characters? But again,
13:14
Speaker 1: growing up, we had the same food. We had the
13:16
Speaker 1: same cereal. But I mean we had cheerios, which is
13:19
Speaker 1: just beige, you know what I mean? It wasn't this
13:21
Speaker 1: really bright color that said, I must go get some
13:24
Speaker 1: of that. It's so cool and so vibrant. I have
13:27
Speaker 1: to have it. And that really does it tickles all
13:29
Speaker 1: of your senses other than the fact that you're hungry.
13:31
Speaker 1: So are they doing the same exact process as they
13:33
Speaker 1: did with cigarettes?
13:35
Speaker 2: Yes, where I was going with the Saturday Morning cartoons
13:38
Speaker 2: and the free prize inside of cereal boxes. Yeah. When
13:43
Speaker 2: I was growing up, I ate cheerios and it was
13:45
Speaker 2: sort of the bummer cheerios. We always wanted the honey
13:48
Speaker 2: nut cheerios, but Mom wouldn't get it. Another shout out
13:51
Speaker 2: to the food babe again is that you know a
13:53
Speaker 2: lot of people our age forties, fifties, sixties are like, oh,
13:57
Speaker 2: you know what's wrong with the food? I ate that
13:59
Speaker 2: growing up? Did you? I guess that food has evolved?
14:05
Speaker 2: Or shall I say the food has devolved? If you
14:08
Speaker 2: look at the labels of like say Gatorade, from the
14:11
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties to today, the amount of ingredients in today's
14:16
Speaker 2: gatorade is startling. It is all chemicals. Where the early
14:21
Speaker 2: gatorade was sugar, water, sodium potassium. It was the thing
14:28
Speaker 2: that we think of when we think of gatorade. But
14:31
Speaker 2: over the years the decades, they figured out how to
14:33
Speaker 2: make it cheaper, lasts longer, And we're kind of at
14:38
Speaker 2: this like, Wow, how did Gatorade get so bad? How
14:41
Speaker 2: did cheerios get so bad? How did pop tarts get
14:43
Speaker 2: so bad? Well, they were unchecked using ingredients that were
14:48
Speaker 2: generally recognized as safe.
14:51
Speaker 1: Patrick is the reason why what we've already talked about.
14:54
Speaker 1: Is it really just about making bigger profits? Is it
14:57
Speaker 1: really about it lasting longer on the shelf? Is there
14:59
Speaker 1: some something addictive in these chemicals that we're talking about?
15:02
Speaker 1: Because I have no idea and no research about all
15:04
Speaker 1: these chemicals that are in there. I don't even know
15:06
Speaker 1: what's in there. You could read the label, I guess,
15:07
Speaker 1: But even if I could read those names, I wouldn't
15:09
Speaker 1: know what they meant. So is it all of that?
15:12
Speaker 1: Is it about bigger profits, lasting longer, getting us addicted?
15:15
Speaker 1: Do we know? Have you come to a conclusion with
15:18
Speaker 1: the research that you've done and in this in this
15:20
Speaker 1: documentary Breaking Big Food? Do we know why they did it?
15:23
Speaker 1: Because they didn't have to. Gatorade was selling like crazy
15:26
Speaker 1: foot loops always sold great, I like life cereal growing up,
15:28
Speaker 1: you didn't have to you didn't have to make all
15:30
Speaker 1: these changes. Is there a pinpointed reason that you found
15:34
Speaker 1: in doing this documentary this is why they did it,
15:37
Speaker 1: or is it all of that.
15:39
Speaker 2: We did not pinpoint a reason. We did not pinpoint
15:42
Speaker 2: a bad actor specifically. I think what we pinpointed was
15:46
Speaker 2: the incentive structure that led Big Food down a slippery
15:50
Speaker 2: slope that was inevitable, similar to how the regulatory the
15:55
Speaker 2: regulatory bodies have been captured because well, gosh, if I
15:59
Speaker 2: let this ingredient by, I'm going to get a job
16:03
Speaker 2: being on their board of whatever company, food, pharmaceutical, you
16:07
Speaker 2: name it, paying me ten times my current government salary.
16:11
Speaker 2: It's a broken incentive structure. I'm not entirely sure how
16:16
Speaker 2: to fix it, but I do know that you show
16:18
Speaker 2: me the incentives, you can predict the outcome. And I
16:22
Speaker 2: think that's how the food ended up here. It's not
16:24
Speaker 2: necessarily one person or one kind of evil genius that
16:29
Speaker 2: was like, let's just get them addicted. It's essentially the
16:33
Speaker 2: tenets of business where you want to get your customers
16:36
Speaker 2: to buy your products for life. So if a scientist
16:40
Speaker 2: tells you that, like, well, if we use this amount
16:43
Speaker 2: of salt and this amount of crunch and this amount
16:46
Speaker 2: of fat as a mixture, then no one can eat
16:49
Speaker 2: just one. That's like music to the ears in the
16:53
Speaker 2: board of director's office. It's just the incentive, and nobody
16:56
Speaker 2: thought to ask, and apparently nobody in the government regulated, Well,
17:01
Speaker 2: what's the downside risk? Is this healthy? One of the
17:04
Speaker 2: things that Calli said in the movie is that nobody
17:08
Speaker 2: gets nobody. Can you can easily eat a bag of
17:12
Speaker 2: potato chips? Yes, but nobody can just continually eat a
17:16
Speaker 2: bunch of grass fed steak. You really can't overeat grass
17:19
Speaker 2: fed steak and potatoes.
17:20
Speaker 1: That's true. I've tried, I have no it's a very
17:25
Speaker 1: good point. I mean, if you're eating just natural stuff
17:26
Speaker 1: that has one ingredient or two ingredients, you're gonna get full,
17:29
Speaker 1: you're gonna get satiated, and you're not going to keep
17:31
Speaker 1: on eating over and over and over again. At the
17:33
Speaker 1: same time. Growing up, I know a couple of family
17:37
Speaker 1: sized bags of Dorito's, that's for sure. So I mean
17:39
Speaker 1: I get it. The more ingredients, the more hooked we become.
17:41
Speaker 1: Do you make specific connections in the movie, and I
17:44
Speaker 1: can't wait to see it. I'll watch it this weekend.
17:46
Speaker 1: Do you make specific connections in the movie from those ingredients,
17:51
Speaker 1: what they've changed in our food supply and chronic disease.
17:54
Speaker 1: Do you say this happened therefore that happened.
17:58
Speaker 2: Well, we look at the correlation of how the American
18:02
Speaker 2: food supply got tainted. And here's three more facts that
18:06
Speaker 2: Calli brings up in the film. Number one, the United
18:10
Speaker 2: States makes up about four percent of the world's population.
18:14
Speaker 2: Number two, we account for about seventy five percent of
18:19
Speaker 2: global pharmaceutical profits.
18:21
Speaker 1: I'm great.
18:21
Speaker 2: Number three, we rank forty ninth in life expectancy. That's
18:26
Speaker 2: a problem that sounds terrible.
18:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it before all this?
18:32
Speaker 2: The question, good question. I would have to go back
18:36
Speaker 2: and look. We didn't look at that. The second half
18:38
Speaker 2: of the film, the full title is Breaking Big Food,
18:41
Speaker 2: How the American food system went rotten, and how it's
18:45
Speaker 2: being revived. So it's not just a journalistic piece. We
18:51
Speaker 2: also wanted to give Americans who watched this film inspiration
18:55
Speaker 2: and hope about how we everyday Americans like myself and
18:59
Speaker 2: my wife can fix the system from the ground up.
19:03
Speaker 2: So the through line is a coffee shop that we
19:07
Speaker 2: opened here in our hometown of Scotts Arizona called Firefly
19:10
Speaker 2: Organic Coffee and Market. It's a little micro market and
19:14
Speaker 2: we run around to a number of other locations outside
19:18
Speaker 2: of the Phoenix area, but within driving distance for raw
19:22
Speaker 2: milk and grass fed ground beef and farm fresh eggs,
19:26
Speaker 2: because we really believe that there are a number of
19:30
Speaker 2: Americans waking up to the problem that's on most grocery
19:33
Speaker 2: store shelves, and they would choose different if it was convenient,
19:38
Speaker 2: but they don't have the time to drive around to
19:40
Speaker 2: all these farms. So the old school micro market that
19:46
Speaker 2: is and could be and should be in ten thousand
19:49
Speaker 2: locations around America to build and really rebuild the food
19:55
Speaker 2: system from the ground up at the local level. That's
19:58
Speaker 2: a big part of what we think needs to happen
20:01
Speaker 2: in America and will really move and change the direction
20:06
Speaker 2: of big food.
20:08
Speaker 1: What's different about your coffee? What makes it different? Why
20:10
Speaker 1: is that fresher, healthier? Why is it different than when
20:13
Speaker 1: I can go and buy at the store.
20:15
Speaker 2: Well, only about two percent of coffee in the world
20:19
Speaker 2: is organic registered organic, meaning it's not using pesticides in
20:24
Speaker 2: the growth process. So our coffee, Firefly Coffee, is organic
20:30
Speaker 2: registered organic. It's grown in Honduras. It's roasted here in Chandler, Arizona.
20:36
Speaker 2: And the other thing is only about half of the
20:40
Speaker 2: organic coffee is called specialty coffee, where it scores an
20:44
Speaker 2: eighty five or higher on the taste scale. So our
20:48
Speaker 2: coffee is a registered organic specialty coffee. The main thing
20:54
Speaker 2: is that we sent it into a third party to
20:57
Speaker 2: verify that it is mold for a mycotoxin free, plastic free,
21:02
Speaker 2: glypha sate free, all the things that Ashley and I
21:05
Speaker 2: didn't want to put in our bodies. Yeah, we sent
21:08
Speaker 2: to a third party lab to make sure that it
21:11
Speaker 2: was squeaky clean, and spoiler alert, it came back.
21:14
Speaker 1: To queaky clean. Yeah. Well that's good and people can go.
21:18
Speaker 1: People go and check that out for sure. Firefly coffee
21:20
Speaker 1: is what it's called, right.
21:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find it on our website, Jigsawhealth dot.
21:24
Speaker 1: Com, breaking up bigfood dot com as well's that's where
21:28
Speaker 1: the documentary lives. Go and check it out on Apple
21:29
Speaker 1: TV and also Amazon Prime. I could talk to you
21:32
Speaker 1: for a few hours, but I do want to finish
21:34
Speaker 1: it up with this. What changes should people watching and
21:37
Speaker 1: listening right now? I hope they'll all go watch the
21:39
Speaker 1: documentary they'll learn a lot from that, But what changes,
21:42
Speaker 1: conscious changes can they make right now that'll at least
21:46
Speaker 1: get them away from the more addictive stuff, the stuff
21:49
Speaker 1: that has more ingredients than we can even count, and
21:51
Speaker 1: the stuff that might be contributing to our chronic disease issue.
21:56
Speaker 2: Joe, that is a great question. I'm so glad that
21:58
Speaker 2: you asked it, because so many people either watch the
22:01
Speaker 2: movie or hear this message and feel overwhelmed and confused.
22:05
Speaker 2: And I hate that people feel that way, but I
22:07
Speaker 2: get it because Ashley and I we were once confused too,
22:10
Speaker 2: and in twenty fourteen, to bring my cancer story back
22:13
Speaker 2: to it, we really didn't know how to read food labels. Well,
22:17
Speaker 2: that's step one starting with learning how to read food labels.
22:21
Speaker 2: And the good news is for your audience, we have
22:23
Speaker 2: a very easy, free resource for them to download at
22:27
Speaker 2: ingredientsnobs dot com. It's just a one page pdf that
22:32
Speaker 2: shows the dirty dozen ingredients to avoid. You're going to
22:36
Speaker 2: learn all the different names for seed oils, all the
22:39
Speaker 2: different names for artificial sweeteners and preservatives and all those
22:43
Speaker 2: things that we've been talking about. That feels like how
22:45
Speaker 2: am I going to remember all this stuff? Well, we
22:47
Speaker 2: put it all together on one page. You can find
22:49
Speaker 2: the Dirty dozen ingredients to avoid at ingredientsnobs dot com.
22:54
Speaker 2: No registration required, just a free PDF resource.
22:57
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get it right now, ingredientsnobs dot com.
23:00
Speaker 1: I love that. How is your health? Are you cancer free?
23:03
Speaker 2: I am cancer free? Thank you for asking. I feel
23:06
Speaker 2: like I was given a wonderful blessing of a wake
23:10
Speaker 2: up call from my body in the form of cancer
23:14
Speaker 2: that effectively said, hey, Patrick, you're not really listening to me.
23:18
Speaker 2: You're not tuning in, so tune in and listen. And
23:22
Speaker 2: really the path has been revealed thanks to listening to
23:28
Speaker 2: that still small voice inside of me. And thankfully I've
23:31
Speaker 2: been cancer free. Knock on wood. I know a lot
23:35
Speaker 2: more about stress and movement and sleep and nutrition. Those
23:39
Speaker 2: four pillars of health, stress, sleep, nutrition, movement, those four keys.
23:45
Speaker 2: You get those legs of the stool, and you're going
23:47
Speaker 2: to be doing pretty darn well.
23:49
Speaker 1: It's not. Patrick Sullivan cole executive prusier with his wife
23:52
Speaker 1: actually of Breaking Big Food, got a breaking Bigfood dot Com.
23:55
Speaker 1: But before I let you go, I'm glad you're cancer free.
23:57
Speaker 1: Thank god. I am as well. Thank God. Will we
24:01
Speaker 1: ever find out if there is a direct correlation. I'm
24:03
Speaker 1: guessing today you can't say, well, Joe, I ate this
24:06
Speaker 1: and they give me thyroid cancer. I'm guessing you can't
24:08
Speaker 1: say that directly, although we can look at the studies
24:11
Speaker 1: over the years and over the decades, we're much much
24:13
Speaker 1: less less healthy today than we were fifty years ago.
24:16
Speaker 1: That said, will we ever get to a point where
24:18
Speaker 1: we can say, because we ate so much of this
24:21
Speaker 1: thing or that ingredient or sugar or whatever, that's why
24:24
Speaker 1: we have these health issues. Will we get there? Because
24:27
Speaker 1: again I'm guessing, and correct me if I'm wrong. You
24:29
Speaker 1: can't say, well, Joe, I had that cancer in twenty
24:31
Speaker 1: fourteen because I ate too much of this. I'm guessing
24:34
Speaker 1: you can't say that directly.
24:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is the frustrating point to anyone who
24:40
Speaker 2: wants to learn from my story. Oh, I'll stay away
24:43
Speaker 2: from Rudebega because Rudebega causes this.
24:45
Speaker 1: Right, right, which is not the case.
24:48
Speaker 2: No. I really do believe that there are four fundamentals
24:52
Speaker 2: to health. How we handle stress, which is really mindset,
24:56
Speaker 2: and how we envision our lives and how we react
25:00
Speaker 2: situations stresses. I think the first most important thing nutrition
25:05
Speaker 2: absolutely important and specifically not having the bad chemicals in
25:11
Speaker 2: there again. Dirty dozen ingredients to avoid Find that on
25:15
Speaker 2: ingredientsnobs dot com to download number three. How we sleep
25:19
Speaker 2: so matters. I know there's a lot of type A
25:23
Speaker 2: charging entrepreneurial people. That's a big part of who I
25:26
Speaker 2: think America's identity is. But boy, if we don't really
25:30
Speaker 2: prioritize sleep, I think it's a major factor in how
25:34
Speaker 2: our body cleans out and detoxifies a lot of the
25:38
Speaker 2: environmental insults that we get. And then finally, for daily movement,
25:45
Speaker 2: whether it's in the form of gardening or walking or
25:48
Speaker 2: lifting weights or whatever, we just spend a lot of
25:51
Speaker 2: time in chairs in front of screens and that is
25:54
Speaker 2: a big problem. So I believe that cancer and all
25:58
Speaker 2: chronic disease is some form of those four pillars being
26:02
Speaker 2: out of whack, out of balance. And if you kind
26:05
Speaker 2: of say, okay, let me listen to the still small
26:08
Speaker 2: voice inside of me, it's telling me which pillar or pillars,
26:12
Speaker 2: which which of those are are messed up? And then
26:16
Speaker 2: really it's up to you. You decide if you want
26:20
Speaker 2: to be healthy or not.
26:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. It's a conscious decision. It's hard
26:24
Speaker 1: because to get off of the food cycle that we've
26:26
Speaker 1: been on. It's very very hard. Once you do it, though,
26:29
Speaker 1: you can stick to it. And as I said, I
26:30
Speaker 1: low carbon, I'm ketoed for a very long time. It's
26:33
Speaker 1: hard for him Italion. I love pasta, but I don't
26:35
Speaker 1: eat it very much. Yes, I mean it's not easy.
26:36
Speaker 1: But if you make that conscious decision you want to
26:38
Speaker 1: live as long as you possibly can, then you have
26:40
Speaker 1: to make that change. Hopefully people will check out Breaking
26:43
Speaker 1: Big Food by going to Breaking Bigfood dot com or
26:45
Speaker 1: Apple TV or Amazon. Before I let you go, I
26:47
Speaker 1: want to circle back to something you said earlier, and
26:48
Speaker 1: I think I have an answer. You said, I'm not
26:50
Speaker 1: sure how we stop that connection between the lobbyists and
26:53
Speaker 1: the people making the decisions, and and you know, then
26:56
Speaker 1: you end up working from the government, you work over
26:58
Speaker 1: at the at the food company. Now you're going to
27:00
Speaker 1: be on the ad campaign. I think that we can
27:02
Speaker 1: make a law, and I'm pretty sure there are people
27:04
Speaker 1: in Washington today that agree with this, where you cannot
27:07
Speaker 1: work for any sort of group that lobbied you when
27:11
Speaker 1: you were in government for ten years after leaving government,
27:14
Speaker 1: because the revolving door to go to government and be
27:17
Speaker 1: a decision maker, let people get away with murder, not
27:20
Speaker 1: literal murder, but get away with anything they want, and
27:22
Speaker 1: then go and work for the company that you just
27:24
Speaker 1: helped out through legislation. That's a problem for me. I
27:26
Speaker 1: would call that a conflict of interest. So would you
27:28
Speaker 1: be in support of something like that? No revolving door that.
27:30
Speaker 2: Way, Yeah, I am. I think that there's I would
27:35
Speaker 2: love to hope that that is the thing that fixes it.
27:38
Speaker 2: I still feel like there's there's going to be something
27:42
Speaker 2: that gets through that gets by where it's like, well,
27:45
Speaker 2: who prosecutes that and who investigates and and there's also
27:51
Speaker 2: it might be quite frankly, the trial lawyers that that need.
27:59
Speaker 2: You know, recently there's been a lot of discussion of
28:02
Speaker 2: glychisate and essentially removing any immunity for damage. I think
28:10
Speaker 2: that that's a big problem. Aaron C. Aaron Siri sr iow,
28:16
Speaker 2: oh did you okay. He's a fellow Arizonaan, and I
28:20
Speaker 2: think he makes one of these strongest cases for how
28:24
Speaker 2: the childhood vaccine schedule went absolutely crazy after nineteen eighty six.
28:30
Speaker 2: I believe it was the Childhood Vaccine Liability Protection Acts,
28:35
Speaker 2: where all of a sudden, O, Well, if we can't
28:38
Speaker 2: get hurt for making vaccines, if we being big pharma
28:43
Speaker 2: can't get slapped on the wrist by the trial lawyers
28:46
Speaker 2: for causing harm, well let's just do a whole bunch
28:48
Speaker 2: of these. And wouldn't you know it, the vaccination schedule
28:52
Speaker 2: goes from three vaccines for a child to seventy five.
28:57
Speaker 1: It's nuts, It's absolutely nuts. That's another Sorry for another interview,
29:01
Speaker 1: but you're absolutely right. I would like to think in
29:03
Speaker 1: a perfect world, and again I'm thinking in where things
29:06
Speaker 1: can actually work if you say do it, do it.
29:08
Speaker 1: But you're right, they're always is going to be a
29:09
Speaker 1: loophole somewhere. You can make that rule. If you're somebody
29:12
Speaker 1: who was on a committee that said let's go to war,
29:14
Speaker 1: you can't leave government and go work for an arms manufacturer.
29:18
Speaker 1: I think that would make sense. I hope we can
29:20
Speaker 1: do something like that with food. RFK Junior's trying to
29:22
Speaker 1: do that has been roundly attacked by people like Elizabeth
29:25
Speaker 1: Warren who've made a lot of money from companies that
29:28
Speaker 1: don't want RFK Junion to make the changes. Listen, I
29:30
Speaker 1: could talk to you for about three hours. Patrick I
29:32
Speaker 1: appreciate the time. Thank you and Ashley for making this.
29:34
Speaker 1: Go and check out his movie called Breaking Bigfood dot
29:37
Speaker 1: X actually at Breaking Bigfood dot com. As the website
29:39
Speaker 1: it's called Breaking Big Food and then there's a long
29:42
Speaker 1: titled past that just go look for it on Apple
29:44
Speaker 1: TV and Amazon Prime. Thanks a million for the knowledge.
29:46
Speaker 1: I really love talking to you.
29:48
Speaker 2: Thanks Joe, Thank you for everything you do to make
29:50
Speaker 2: America better.
29:51
Speaker 1: I'm doing my best, my friend, I appreciate you. That's
29:53
Speaker 1: it for Unshaking and Unafraid with Joe PAGs this time
29:55
Speaker 1: another one to drop very soon. Make sure you subscribe