Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Hook, A Wish Fulfilled, & Practice - New Spring ch1-3 - EP583

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The Hook, A Wish Fulfilled, & Practice - New Spring ch1-3 - EP583 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Weed of Time Spoilers Podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: All right, well, did you want to We are starting
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: new Spring. We're doing New Spring. It's our Jordan palate
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: cleanser before we go into a Memory of Light.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, last fresh breath of Jordan before the full Sandra
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Lanche of it all that wraps it up for real,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: for real, for real.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: For real, and we you know it's been We're not
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: doing this in any of the normal locations. We're not
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: doing it after book five when Morain, you know, disappears.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: We're not doing it after book eleven when Jordan stops writing.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We're not even doing it after a Memory of Light.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: So it's a full circle.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: We're not doing it in publishing order.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: We're not doing it in publishing order. Like, we're just
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: throwing this sucker in there because for us, if you like,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: the right time, I think that's we were saving it.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: It was this wild card floating around and then it
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: felt right, it felt really right to just have that
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: available to do now. And so yeah, we're doing this
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: in a little bit of an unusual fashion, right right,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: We're going to do it in five chunks, I think,
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: rather than chapter by chapter or even double headering it.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: We're going to do this in pretty rapid order, because
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: you know, always joked about doing it as a just
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: single recording day. That's unrealistic. But we're keeping pieces of
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: that energy by doing six chapters today. Yes, but I
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: do think that because these chapters are lovingly granular in
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: their detail, we're going to be able to skip a
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: lot of sections fairly quickly.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: That's a very nice way of saying. It's a lot
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of recap, it's a.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Lot of detail, it's a lot of things we already know.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: But this is the fan service books. It's just the
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: book where you get to just staturreate in twenty years ago.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Here's all the things you know and love about the books.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: And I think it's going to be to talk about
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: than usual.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: And this is also the point where Jordan has his
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: lore well established. He knows what his world is, he
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: knows the eye of the world. Isms have been worked out.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: You know, if you have a debate about whether something
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: he intended something to change or be a certain way,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it's almost all laid out in this book. Who the
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: cultures are with the magic system works at least before
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: you know the Dragon Reborn comes along and starts changing everything.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But this is sort of his This is what the
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: world was when the story started and what he wanted
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: it to be. It's almost way for him to go
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: back and say, yeah, ignore some of those e of
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the world isms. You know, if you know what's going on,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: if you have an open eye, if you're an isid eye,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: going into the of the world with all this information,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: so many more things become clear, which is also why
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I think it's terrible to read it before the Eye
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: of the World.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I love reading it in between Memory of Light
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: and Eye of the World because that's the chronological cycle
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: of it. But yeah, I would never recommend that as
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the first time read like none of no, you read
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: this in publishing order on your first time, in my opinion,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: first time through, you read it the way the author
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: intended it, and after that you can pick and choose.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: If for no other reason then like, oh my god,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: just getting buried in the Isidai names. You know, there's
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: no point in doing that any earlier until he actually
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: starts doing it in the series and these characters start popping.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Up, right. But once all of these characters have reached
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: their apex, right, you know, Shiriyam has become black Aja
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: and been executed for that behavior by the time that
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: we're getting here to read this right, even if you
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: read it in publishing order, like all of the Isadai
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: who were in the original thirteen that bounce in book three,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: so many of them are named here, but you know
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: they're midway through being terrible people by that point I
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: read this, you know this is before Like the only
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: ones of these who could be black Aja at this
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: point are ones who were black Aja before they joined
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: the Tower or who are is die. All of the
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: ones who are accepted who we know become black Auja
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: unless they were black Auja before or dark friends before
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: they joined the Tower, they are not yet recruited to
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the dark side.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And as far as I'm more of, there's very very
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: few dark friends before they become ice Ada. I I
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: think they're filtered out pretty well, and I'm not sure.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I just remember them being like they don't really they don't.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, they don't recruit from among the novices
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and they accepted, right, So if your dark friend, you
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: don't get to be black Aja any sooner.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, depending on who you can make contact.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I guess, I guess, I guess what kind of shenanigans
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: you've done. But like again, you have to be a
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: certain age to get into the tower, which doesn't leave
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: you many years to get super high up and dark friend.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Recks, you know.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: So it's very very rare that you're going to have
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: an eye, that you're going to have a novice or
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: accepted who is at all dark inclined, because they don't
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: even get recruited until they have the shawl. And yeah,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: just very few teenagers are super dark friended out. It's
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: just super rare. It happens. Millie Skin was obviously doing
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: wild shit by the time she was sixteen.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: But it seems to be most young women aren't going
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: to have that opportunity to know before they're first channeling.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, most people are good and don't turn to the
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: dark side until they've been properly disappointed in my life,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: which tends to not happen until you know you're past
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: the age of entry for getting into the White Towers.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So let's not forget all the orphans out there. Though
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: this is a very orphan prone world.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: Most orphans don't turn to the dark one. So all
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: of the women who we see here who are accepted
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: and who we know become dark friends, one should assume
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: that they are not dark friends. One should assume that
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: that transition for them lies in the future, in the
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: intervening twenty years between now and I of the world.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Of course, we do see some isidie who are dark friends. Yes,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: we do get some of those, for sure. I'm just
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: saying of the accepted anyone that makes your skin want
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: to crawl. If it'sn't accepted, she has has it made
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: that choice yet? But I think we've concluded that point.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: Should we get into chapter one, which is not about
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: isidai except in the most vague and superstitious of senses, right, So.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, should we talk about the structure of the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: book at all? It's mostly Novice Moraine with a some
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Land chapters in the beginning and at the.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: End Accepted Moraine, accepted Marain.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, yeah.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: The last month of her isidai training, or the last
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: month of her accepted training, and like the first three
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: months of her isidai career, Booke ended by Land transitioning
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: from young warrior to middle aged choreier.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: And I think for me, what was so stark about
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Land in this book. Is this is a very formal,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: very uptight Land, much more so than the land we
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: see twenty years later.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was really striking me about both Land and Moraine.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Is how much more uptight, angry, compressed, brittle, all those
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: kinds of words.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Both of them are less under control.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like the control is more tightly held, it's less natural.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Which again brilliant writing. Right, the fact that Jordan can
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: take up me take Let me see these characters as
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: younger versions of themselves, and not just like oh Land,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: who's not quite as good as the Sword, it's like
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: no Land, who's a very different set of values and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: beliefs that come from Malchiere. You can see where they've
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: evolved to get to where they were. That he went
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: from something rigid to something much more loose and much
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: more accommodating, and seeing the start of that journey I
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: think is really really interesting.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, as he says somewhere, I can't remember
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: it's just in the show or if it is a
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: quote from here, but like the concept of he had
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: nothing to live for for a very long time, this
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: is the version of him that had nothing to live
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: for when we meet him in eye of the world.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: He has spent twenty years retraining his emotional landscape to
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: have something to live for. Granted, it's you know, still
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: kind of a suicide mission, and then you got nineve
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: in there. But this is the guy who's pure nihilism
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: because he truly has nothing to work towards in any
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: meaningful sense.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: No, at some point in the story he is He's like, well,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to go fight the blit and die, like
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: multiple times, and uh Boukama is like, whoa, whoaa, hold on,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Let's let's do one more thing before we go, you know,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: die fighting the blight. Just one more thing, you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: and that's that gets him involved in Moraine, which which
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: leads to the rest of the story. But like, yeah,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: he is. He is ready to go suicide into the
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Blait pretty much at any point.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Because he has nothing to build, he has nothing to
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: work towards. It's just fulfill honor and obligation until you did.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, Morain gives him a huge, huge, huge
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: mission and that totally changes how he approaches what frustrates
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: him and what he prioritizes. And yeah, twenty years later,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: that makes her a very different person. Moraine is less dramatic.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: She's more just the transition of maturity, right. She has
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: plenty to build as a you know, twenty something who's
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: about to get this all. She's not nihilistic, but you
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: know she still hasn't picked her direction. And yet that
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: is the same.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I think for me, the interesting part was the parallels
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: between Suon and a Guaine, and then also Moraine and Agwaine,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and like Moraine and ninety even like the way they're
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: sort of two novices, I guess not ninety more Aguaine
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: in a lane the way Suon and Moraine trying to
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you got one noble one from the you know that
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: parallel is there, and it's written like it's there, right,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: You've got a noble and a common woman. You've got,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the one who's a leader, one who's you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: more of a follower. Even though they're both leaders right
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: in different ways. Su On and Agwaine both want to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: go out and see the world and have adventures and
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: end up as the ambulance seat, right like and I
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: can see the parallel also in how they're written a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: little bit almost a little too much, right, I almost
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: see a little bit of a like a little bit
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: of a lane in Moraine.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it leans a little hard on every generation of
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Isidai has these two girls. But also, I mean they
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: do share a lot in common. I mean, hell, they're related, right.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Moraine's half brother is Taring Gill, who is Elaine's father.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: They are both high class ladies raised in two different
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: nation states who have very very similar customs and cultures. Like,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: there is gonna be a lot of similarities in them
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: for a lot of reasons. I also like how much
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: we see parallels too Ninive in Moraines, particularly with like
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: the anger right that Morain has such an intense temper
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: to hold down. It's like, yeah, you can kind of
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: see where Ninive clashing with her and then ultimately caring
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: about her and missing her like comes from. Because there's parallels, Like, actually,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Morain has overcome a lot of the same issues that
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Ninive has because when you meet her and I have
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: the world, she is cool, she is calm, she has collected.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: She is pissing Ninive off by virtue of existing. She
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: is a bitch eating crackers, right, she is the worst
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: just by virtue of being calm. But and Ninive like
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: resents her for her calmness but we're seeing here, Like
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: when Morain looks at ninetyves, she's like, yeah, that was
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: me twenty years ago. I get it. That's part of
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: why she's so like cool with my names, because she's like,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I know, I know how it is, I know what
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it's like to be that angry, and like, you'll power through,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: you'll get through it. And also, you know, good temperament
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: match for Land, even though the relationships are different. There's
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a bit of like, yeah, yeah, he'll be able to
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: handle you.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: It's okay, so we join Land.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, chapter one, the symbol is the helmet, Lan's helmet.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I guess you know what's funny. I don't have symbols
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: in this book.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: What.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll have to tell me what the symbols are.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, mine is what I believe is Land's helmet.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the malchire helmet.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: I have a new run of a mass market paperback
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: that still has the dary olkase sweet Are on the front,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: but now it's all splashed over right stuff. Oh, this
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: one actually is from when Knife of Dreams was still
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: getting promode. This has includes an exclusive preview of book eleven.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: That's the era this is. It's still in brand new condition,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: but it.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Probably sat on the shell for a while before it
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: got ordered.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I always buy these books used from Powells, but
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: sometimes used doesn't mean that the pages were ever turned.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: It just means that it was secondhand, right right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Someone bought it and is sat on the shell
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: for a while. Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Anyhow, Yeah, chapter one, the hook has Land's helmet as
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: the symbol.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And what's the hook in this one? You know?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: The hook is the geologic formation that they're using to
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: set up the attack against the or the.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Ambush, the anvil and the hammer. Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the hook is a literal ridge of bare stone
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: that is shaped in a hook like fashion. But yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: I read us in because Islam.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: The cold wind gusted. Gotta start with wind.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: It's three time. Even we're not doing the paragraph, there's
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: still going to be wind.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I gotta say, I did notice that there's no the
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: paragraph like this is not a wind. You know, I'm
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: actually surprised we didn't get the paragraph at the beginning
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: of this book.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just imagine the paragraph and then this wind.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that cold wind gusted through the night. Yeah, all right,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: across the snow covered land where men had been killing
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: one another. For the past three days. The air was crisp,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: if not so icy as land expected for this time
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: of year. It was still cold enough for his steel
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: breastplate to carry the chill through his coat, and his
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: breath to mist in front of his face when the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: wind did not whip it away. The blackness in the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: sky was just beginning to fade, the thousands of stars
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: like the thick scattered dust of diamonds slowly dimming. The
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: fat sickle of the moon hung low, giving barely light
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: to make out the silhouettes of the men guarding the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: fireless camp in the sprawling cops of oak and leatherleaf.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Fires would have given them away to the ice. He'd
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: fought the Iel long before this war had begun on
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: the shinar In marches, a matter of duty to friends,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: eyellmen were bad enough in daylight. Facing them in the
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: night was as close to staking your life on the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: toss of a coin. Has made no difference, of course,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes they found you without fires.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Hell.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, finding the Iel never a pleasant prospect, right, And
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: you set them up as enemies from the beginning.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they are deadly enemies. They are. They're like the
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Golden Horde, making the nations of Europe decide to shape
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: up and build armies. Right like their nation define nations
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: defining they are an international threat. They cause for a
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: coalition to come together between nations that have nothing in
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: common and nothing good to say about each other. Also,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: we get a good introduction of Land as someone who
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: will go to war over a matter of obligation to friends,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Like he's not in this because he really cares per se.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: He's fought AELL in the past, not because he has
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: anything against the ideel, but because he just is an
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: honor mercenary or something.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And you can see him going around waking people up right,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: like he is there for duty. He sees falling asleep,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: not as something that's like inevitable or it's something he
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: has to like, Oh, these damn assholes are just falling asleep.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: He's like, Okay, part of duty is to wake them
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: up and they need to stay awake. I don't know.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: There's this sense of like he will he'll do what's right,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: but he'll work really hard for it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Also, he has a sword that's ancient and
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: has had the hilt replaced a million times. There's this
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: constancy to what he's doing. There's this archetypal warrior that
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: can withstand everything that even the other mere mortals cannot
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: because he's a king. He's the King of Malchiyi. He's
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: got the King of Marcr's sword right. He might be
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: a lost and discarded object, but he's also still the
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: power rock blade of an honor code.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: And he already doesn't need to sleep a lot, even before.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Bonding, and he has excellent command of the oneness the code,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: the meditative technique that allows him to ignore the cold
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: on top of emotion.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And we get that he's in a camp with about
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: three hundred men.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a pretty small force.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So as he's walking along, the next thing I have
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: is Bukama basically has been following him, checking up on
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: him the whole night.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: As he checks up on the regular soldiers, his mentor
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: is checking up on him.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And so then then we get his backstory right the
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: whole Boukama carrying land out of the falling Malkire.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Twenty men started the journey, five men finished it, and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Bukama is the last one left standing by virtual of
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: old age. Like there were five who raised him, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the other four have died of natural causes right. Fifteen
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: of them died in the desperate attempt to save the baby,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: and the other four have just like aged out of life.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Which I gotta say, that's just saying, oh, this is
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: the last one left alive of the men who raised me.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: What a death sentence in any book.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Right, He's one week from retirement, getting.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Too old for this shit, Like it's yeah, it's the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: cliche is there with Boukama? We know he's by the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: end of this, and he is, you.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Know, he is the old police officer at the beginning
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: of the movie. You're like, oh, buddy, you're not gonna
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: make it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but it's just too tragic.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: But it's a tragic backstory. It's great for Land to
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: have that angst of like fifteen of my like, so
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: he has five dads right, like uncles, kind of like
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: how Oliver's being raised by the Red Arms, and those
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: five men have the perpetual lingering horror of losing fifteen
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of their comrades in one night. Trying to get this
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: kid out like that is always over. There's fifteen other
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: ghosts in the room every time that they're training him
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: to survive and keeping him alive when he wants to
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: go like climb a tree or whatever, you know, And can.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: You imagine, like the weight of the deaths of fifteen
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: men is on you from the moment you're born, every
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: that's been told you, every moment of your working life,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Like fifteen men died so you could survive the amount
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: of guilt and responsibility you would feel.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think he was a very rambunctious child.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I think he had to have been pretty Godstarn's somber
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: from the jump.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: A little bit about the Dark One's name, right, there's
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: all these like lord drops that we know about real
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: time that like if you say the Dark One's name,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: that does cause badnessfortune and people have seen it and
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: experienced it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: And healing from ice to die is kind of a rumor,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: but maybe it's worth avoiding. You really get a sense
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: of the kind of worldview that the Merchant's guards were
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: bringing into the Two Rivers for the boys to be
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: hearing about the world before they ever went into it,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Like these are the pre apocalypse concepts of magic and
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: evil before everything goes to hell, before he gets inducted
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: into higher levels of knowledge. This is more or less
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: how the Two Rivers boys are learning about the world
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: as men like land having these attitudes and talking about
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: them where village boys.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Can hear, and speaking like his attitudes. Like he's thinking, Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the ideal or part of this pattern of the Dark
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: One coming back every thousand year, he's off by about
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: twenty right.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: That's arounding error with that many years.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And he says, and now close enough to a thousand
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: years after Hawking's empire. It's not quite though, right, everything
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: else is exactly a thousand years, but not this one.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: This is too early. And that's because you know, we're
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: on that thousand year cycle of Shamael getting out.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Right, Because we're talking about a thousand years ago, you
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: don't have the decade in, decade out granularity of when
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: did this advisor show up and make the critical moves
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: that didn't actually culminate for a while, right, Like.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Not to mention it was a hundred year war, how
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: do you you know a thousand years from the beginning
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: a thousand years?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, actually it was one hundred and seventeen years,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: right for your break in the middle, right, right, So yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: it's close enough, it's close enough. And also, yeah, the
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Dark one's not really going to be super breaking free
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: for another twenty years. But also it's kind of happening now, right,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Like there's just a lot of halo effects around the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: exactitude what's happening.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: And I kind of head canon that lewis there, that
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Shamayel is at least uh in the dream world at
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: this point, even if you I don't think he can
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: quite touch the real world, but I can think he
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: can start to touch really really dark dark friend's dreams.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Jane Farstreider has already been messed with, right at this point, Right,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: those I yield that leave the message on a.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: They're killed and they leave the message with the O gear.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's happening more or less around this time,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: maybe like in two or three years, but closer to
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: now than to I of the world.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So it's obvious that like Ishamael has to have at
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: least started to get out at this point. I was
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: head cannon that his first contact with the with the
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: world happens when Rand is born, that like, that's it's
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: on that three thousand that Rand is born exactly three thousand. Well,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I guess he's not born exactly three thousand years, because
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: he's born in nine to eighty eight or something like that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: No, because the books pick up nine ninety eight, which
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: means he's been twenty years prior exactly ninety seventy.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Seventy Eight's right, right, right, I was subtracting to nine
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: eighty eight, not twenty the decimal point, right right. So
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I guess that's not exactly right. But yeah, I mean,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I just do. I had canon that
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: like the moment Rand is born is the same moment
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: that chameel can touch the world again.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't think so, but it's around here.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I think it just feathers in over time. But I
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: would bet like also, the Traullucs have probably like started
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: to pick up their breeding program right around now in
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: anticipation for in twenty years we're gonna be you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: doing a tarm and.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Guid and so like, what's the life cycle of a trillic?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: How long? Yeah before a trillic after a trounc is born,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: you know, And we know their female Traucs.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: We've been told, Yeah, how quickly do they mature and
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: become fighters? And yeah, how quick? How old can they
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: live assuming they don't die in battle?
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: And how many children. Can female troullcs have Are they
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: breeding them like puppies? Like, are we getting twelve you
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: know tralla in a litter?
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. They've got too much human Well,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know, wolf they could be wolf it out.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, that's what I'm saying.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Do eagles? Are the eagles coming out as live births?
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Shouldn't they be in eggs?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Who knows? Right, Like we get very little about that.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's yeah.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I would say trillcs have to mature significantly faster than
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: their human stuck. They've got to mature much more on
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a speed with their animal side right, right, like two
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: or three years until they're fully mature and ready to
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: go into.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Battle, right, I think think about dog aging or bird aging,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: like most animals are ready to go after a year
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: or yeah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So I imagine you add in the fighting
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: skills and the armoring and the bulking out, you know,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: maybe say three years for a trollic to go from
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: freshly birth to probably I would imagine that they have
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: a pretty short life cycle. I would imagine that they
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: could probably live like up to twenty years if they're
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: you know, a breeding female, but probably in battle they
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: don't even make it to ten.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of imagining they just they exist on
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: their animal life cycle, which is going to be shorter.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: And they're big, and we know that, like say with dogs, right,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: like the bigger the breed, the shorter the lifespan. Right,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: tiny little pocket dogs can live like a bajillion years,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: and a ginormous giant giantism affected like mastiff is gonna
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: not make it nearly as long. So I would imagine
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: that trollics come in on the shorter lifespan side of things,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: just because they are bread for gigantism. Also, yeah, probably
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the fatality rates with them are pretty but against like,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I don't even think they probably lived that long even
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: if they are kept in a cage.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: We get introduced to rakem. That's the next bit I have,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: talks a little bit about tear and geography and no
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: snow and stuff like that. I think the interesting thing
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: about Rakkeem is he took chances and even when not drinking,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: he was boasted about his luck. A fool thing to do,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And the reason I wanted to bring that up is
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: because luck plays such an important role in this story.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: In this book, because the Black Aja don't know they
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: know that the dragon may be reborn, they don't know
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: how old he is. They don't know that he's actually
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: like reborn on that day. They think he might be older,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: and so they're trying to eliminate anyone who might be lucky,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: aka anyone who might be channeling. So anytime these men
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: are mentioned as being lucky and then are murdered later
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: or turn up dead, it's because they're being hunted by
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: the Black Aja.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Does Rakim end up dead later because he's kind of
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: old even for them.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Rakim is in Towers of Midnight what he's part of
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the part of the Malkire that joined him in the
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: last charge on Tarwin's Gap.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: He's a Saldaeian.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: In this book, it's the band that finds him an
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Eastern candor. They're Malchierre well in so it's Manighan, gorn Ellen,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Shinaan's key Jab. I mean, it's just the whole list
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: of people.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Well in this book, Rakkeem is Sudaan. But that's impressive.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: I was figuring.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: No, he is. He is south a En. Yeah, sorry,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't say he's part of the group that joins
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: him on the march. Yeah, he's I shouldn't say he's Malecare.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's part of Land's trail.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Is part of He's part of the merchant cavern, remember
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the one that has all the supplies.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, he's in that. Oh Dancy. I totally
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: figured that with the whole like, yeah, you shouldn't talk
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: too loud about your luck stuff, that he was going
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: to die as a cautionary tale to be like, and
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: this is why Matt is right to be so quiet
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: about his luck. But no, he lives all the way
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to the point of joining Land in his final march
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: to the last battle. Good for you, Rakim.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: All right, we see Andre Nazier and Rakim join Lani
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Bulen on the plane of Lances.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Nice, Yeah, okay, so I see this is okay, I'm
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I'm He's not part of the cavern that joins it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: He's before that. Sorry, he's just for some reason, I
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: don't know why in his chronology they talk about the cavern,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: only that he's part of that. The cavern joins him.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: He's part of that group. He's just I think he's
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: mentioned in that chapter. That's all.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: It's caravan.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: By the way, caravan, taverein tavern, whatever you can see
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: where it's ruined me. The wheel of time has ruined
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: my ability to add that extra e sound in.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: See.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: The next thing I've got is this messenger showing up
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: from the tyrants and saying, hey, you're a force that
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: can make it in time to be a anvil against
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: my superior officers. Hammer, go over there, let's do it.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: We will smash and Landa is very annoyed at his attitude,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: but agrees because that's the nature of war commands.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So so shall we play the game incompetent or dark friend?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Dude do doud do? Like?
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: This one does feel very dark friendly right.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: It feels like he's being set up to take the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: fall against the iel right for time. Way more show
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: up than they expect. He doesn't show up to be
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the hammer of.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: The trumpets make no sense. No, the trumpets feel like
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: they're just screwing with people.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And I don't think we get an answer. I don't
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: think we get any follow up on that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I agree, it feels like there's whiffs of a conspiracy,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: but because there's no conclusion, we're just left with a
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: vague sense of unease, which I guess is appropriate, right.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Because the next time we see him, he's just traveling
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: with Bookama after the war's over, right, Like this is
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: such a weird snapshot. And then we get into the
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: hall and line right moment, but we'll get there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: So yeah, they rustle the army and scurry on out.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: We get some more names, including Land's pre Mandarb horse
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: cat Dancer. I'm so used to looking at names. It's like,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: it's not a fan name, but like, this's not what
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: this book is.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: No, it's not this book.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: No.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: We get a fun little in stories, men just gallop
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: forever and it's stupid because that's not how horses work.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: And I always appreciate that because I'm pretty sure these
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: books are kind of where I got clued into the
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: idea that just galloping a horse for ten miles is
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: a dumb thing to think you can do. Pretty sure
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: that I didn't know that was dumb until I read
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: these books.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I definitely knew it was dumb, but from other fantasy books.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Like that same fourth Wall breaking thing.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and I think even and I of the World, right,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: that was the whole thing about taking away their tiredness,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: is like you couldn't normally do that without magic. That
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: run was astonishing because of the magic, right right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, they get to the hook, they get
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: to this geologic formation as the sky is gray and
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Land thinks about dragon mounted the prophecies, and no one
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: wanted that prophecy fulfilled. But it would be of course
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: one day, and I'm like, literally.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: This day, yeah, day to day, the day is the day.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, not the whole thing. We have a lot
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: of steps to get through, but the first of an
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: inevitable series of steps is I mean, like Shaiel is
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: probably like actively laboring as he's writing up to this thing.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: One would assume because this is the day, this is.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: The morning the trumpets read, help us timelock everything together
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: because Moraine is hearing the trumpets going when guitar.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Of course, Jordan has a time lock between the two
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: chapters to show you, yeah, the different povs, what's happening. Yeah,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: of course he does. How did I miss that?
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Like Shaiel is actively in labor and about to birth
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: her baby right now, like she is like in transition
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: at this point.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: She's like dilated eight centimeters exactly.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Like if we're going with the show right, she has
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: finished killing all of the king's guard, right, Like, that's
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: how close we are to the moment.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So the idell appear. Uh, I think the only thing
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I had before that. He mentions that, like, oh, yeah,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: you can't hold a drawn bow for long, Like there's
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: just a lot of fourth breaking stuff where it's like,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: no one's gonna draw their bow and wait for the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: enemies to approach, because like that's like holding weight in
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: the air for like hour, for minutes, it's gonna tire
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: you out.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a bow that can shoot that far cannot be
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: held for more than a few seconds.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Really, anyboh shouldn't be held for more than a few seconds. Yeah,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: good for the bow, it's not good for your arms, right, Like, that's.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Not what bows are for. No, that's just that's not
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: how this exercise work.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: It's not a crossbow. That's a crossbowser for right, Right.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: That's why crossbows were invented. It's because someone was like,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: but what if you could though, and then they engineered
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: a way into making that an option because it's not
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: physically possible for you. We gotta line about how peaches
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: are poisoned that yeah, yeah, he says, there were times
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: you're talking about like attacking the ayeel, and uh, there
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: were times when that was the only way, but it
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: was foolish to lod to lose men needlessly before you must.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: And as surely as peaches were poisoned, you did lose
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: men in close quarters with a eel. It's just oh yeah,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: peaches are poison That's a thing that exists in this world.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Feels like you would eliminate them, like it feels like
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: peaches are hard to grow, you know.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: It's one of the things what I was thinking is, like,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: are not peaches like a domestic crop? Though, Like, how
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: would peaches be poison if you have to? Like, they're
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: not apples, right, Apples are a thing that just happened naturally.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Grend Al does say peaches are pois in here and now,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: implying they were not poisonous in the age of Legends.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: So part of the breaking was permanently altering the genomes
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: of peaches to be poisonous. But somehow they still grow wild,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: despite the fact that's been three thousand years of people
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: not being able to eat them.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, oh wow, this is a whole article. The Wheel
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: of Time Companion defines the peach as fruit whose pit
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: could be powdered and used as poison. It was widely
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and erroneously believed that the fruit itself was.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Poison So kind of like the myth about tomatoes.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. A woman named Runella is selling peaches from tear.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Rand reacts with horror, but she assures him by saying
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: they have the tocsin removed, and then proceeds to eat one.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: That's in his future visions, well, not his future visions
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: in his dark one vision.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Duel yes yes during his potential future seen by Rand Fuji.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe Agner just had a specific spite against peaches like
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: that was part of his closing acts as in the
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: War of Power.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: The mistake and belief like the fact that peaches have
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: poison in them, also originates from real life. Tomatoes were
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: once referred to as wolf peaches and poison apple, and
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: we're believed to be poisonous. A similar belief surrounded potatoes,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: which were called the devil's apples.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Which makes sense because they're both night shades and you
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: shouldn't fucking eat night shades as a general rule.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Harriet, It's just one of Jordan's unreliability of information. Moments
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: where he's saying like, you can't.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Trust he just wanted to have a tomato min uh
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: huh uh huh. But he was like, I'm not gonna
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: be boring and unoriginal and do tomatoes. No, no, no, it's
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: going to be peaches. Also, it makes sense because he's
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: a Southern man, right, peaches in the South, right, like
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: he picked a beloved fruit that was near to hand
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: when he was staring out the window and writing, it's
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: my guess.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: So thank you to the Watt fandom.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: For okay, cool and okay, I like it.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So surely as peaches were poisoned, you don't have to
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: lose men in close quarters with a yo.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Apparently apparently you do because peaches aren't poisoned.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and in fairness, nobody.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Dies in this scene right right.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: There are no close quarters with Ayeel, there's no far
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: quarters with Ayel. There's no death at all. As surely
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: as peaches were poisoned, we're gonna die and then nobody dies.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe peaches aren't poisoned.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Then clever Jordan Ah again, miss Juden's writing so clever.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: That works on so many levels. The fact that peaches
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: aren't poisoned and that they're just wrong about that, and
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: then it works. It works delicious delicious peaches.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And of course the number of Iyell that come out
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: of this forest are way more than they were told, right.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: This is this feels trap setting, right because it's a
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: thousand Aeel at least and more coming when they were
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: told like two hundred.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's the question. Is this because the ideal
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: are coming together to retreat because they've killed Laman or
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: was this actual misinformation to get land trapped? Because my
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: impression was kind of that, like no one knew this
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: many Aell were coming this way because the Ayell are
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: retreating because the news that Laman was killed last night
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: has propagated that fast. But it could also just be
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: that someone wanted to get Lang killed because fuck you,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that's why.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Is it possible that the messenger himself was the dark
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: friend and that like nothing of the noble never heard
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: about this, Like he just made up the guy's name.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's totally possible.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: It's a Terran without a name. He does not give
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: his name. He's like, I'm not going to tell you
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: who I am, but you need to go get in
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: the way. Of a bunch of a heel right like yeah, ah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I M I don't know, I don't know.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: We get the kode, which is just the flame and
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: the void.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's talking about it in much more age of
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: legends terms. He calls it the oneness. He's using an
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: old tongue word for it. Like, clearly the tradition that
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: he's in is like in encased in amber warrior code
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: method of doing this, whereas what the Isy said I
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: have as a much more living tradition where the language
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: for how they describe it has changed and evolved over
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: three thousand years. It seems like Lance got this, like
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: here's the ritual way that we think about this very
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: different even though it's the same thing.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: But in either world we see him teach Rand the code,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: and Rand is like, oh yeah, the lame of the boy, right,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: like he recognizes it, right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: But then Selene calls it the oneness right right, And
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: so there's different ways that the same information has percolated
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: down through the ages.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Because it's what it's called, doesn't matter, it's the same technique.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Many paths up the mountain, same view from the top,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: yeah right, So yeah, they stand there waiting for the Aeel,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: and then the ael all flash shout flash mob respect him.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: They just all shout on a line and then move
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: on with their lives. It's I don't understand why they
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: know and respect him so much. I don't understand why
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: he gets left alone here. But he's apparently fought with
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: them before in the past. I don't understand the Aeel
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Land connection.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: This is their retreat, right, true, true? And so oh,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, and they know of him because what I'm
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: guessing is wise women dreams and whatnot, had visions, dreams
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: and whatnot, and basically said, don't fight an A Line.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: We're gonna need him later.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: It'll end in the world like it will just the
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: world will end in disaster if you fight an A
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Line in this.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Battle, because he has to keep Moraine safe so we
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: can bring her and the Rand and the.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, exactly.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's fought them before, but it didn't matter then.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Because he won before. He would have lost this time.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Ah true, because he's like, I don't care if the
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: numbers are feudal, I have my honor blah blah blah.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: And so the only way the Pattern could save him
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: was to send dreams to the ael Okay.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Sure, but three to one odds against the iel Ian you're.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Losing, right, No, even with dragons, even with channelers, like
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have to go do my as wells
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: To win against that sort of odds, you have to
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: go full Domi as well. So the chapter ends with
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: him saying the day was beginning strangely, and he had
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: the feeling there would be more adduced before it was done.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: But we don't pick up with him on this day next.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think we get answers to that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: I feel like we do just pick up with him
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: on the road later.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I completely agree. It's just this, this is
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: a day in the life of but not. It's like
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: trying to show the same day as random Land and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Moraine having the same first day, but then we don't
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: pick up with him until quite a bit of time later.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and with that, I think we're done with the
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: first of our six chapters today.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I just yeah. The trumpets are an odd one.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think we ever find out what's going on
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: with the trumpets in New Spring.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Weird. They're so important for helping us be time sync
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: do you'd think they would like.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Mean something, Yeah, I got nothing.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: So chapter two, wish Fulfilled, we're picking up with Moraine,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: and it's just the snake and wheel symbol for this one,
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: because this is a profoundly important hinge point for the
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: entire pattern of everything. This is the foretelling chapter, right.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: So we're opening with Swan and Moraine doing their accepted
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: duty to endure the cold and just be messengers. And
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: it's been four hours and it's near the end of
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: the night, right like dawn is about to start peeking
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: over the edge of the horizon, and the Armorlin and
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: the Keeper are just waiting. They're just waiting and waiting
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: and waiting. Send away for some tea and some news,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: and then as the tea comes back, we get the foretelling, right,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: And to lead up to that, we just have a
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: lot of Moraine thinking about what it's like to be
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: an accepted and what her friend's Swan is like, and
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: all the things that isid I seem to be before
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: she becomes one, and just a lot of thatch.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Her uncle started the war, so we get that her
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: owns laymen, right, like we descriptions of Tamara being fair
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and just smoothest, smoothest ageless face. I said, die, she.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Has gray hair, right, Guitar has fully white hair, but
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: even Tamarra has gray hair. Right, these are this is
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: not the carousel of young women that go through the
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Ombreland seat that leads to Swan getting raised.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Part of the reason why Swan is raised is because
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: starting with Tomra, the Omberlins start dropping.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Like flies because of the black a jab mostly.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: But before Tamra it had been pretty like normal and consistent.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: This is the beginning of the towers starting to have
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: small wabbles that are going to oscillate all the way
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: up to Alida tearing everything apart right.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Well, and then a lot of ways because of this foretelling. Right,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: this is the moment in which they realize the dragon
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: is reborn and the black add job really needs to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: start tearing the tower apart and making it not functional
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: for the last battle.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Right right. Yeah, And you know Tomra even says over
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Guitar's body, like not now, like I need you. Right,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: the lost of Guitara is if there is every single
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: moment in which everything changes, it is the loss of Guitar.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: The fact that she foretells so hard she dies is
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: the moment that it all changes.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: So what's going Why is Guitara just like Potter, she
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: spends four hours on this letter and she's not really
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: writing anything, Like, what are they waiting for?
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I was trying to think about that too,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: because yeah, they're clearly waiting on something. And Moraine's best
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: guess is some kind of foretelling or.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It has to be because they they waited until the
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: third day to send out these healers. Right, there's this
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: timing that seems to be implied that the Amber Len
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: and Guitara are waiting for something that like on the
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: third day there would be news.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does seem like that. And from everything Morienne says,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: the best we've got is just it was other foretellings
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: from Gatara.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: M hmm.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: But that's why they've sent all these people out, because
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: like remember Guitara foretold sending Shahiel out to the waist,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: right type, Tigraine, she sent her out, She sent Luke, Yeah,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: she sent Luke into the blight, saying it was going
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to be super important.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Both the children of the Andor and Queen got
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: separately foretold off to their desk breaking the Queen's heart
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: for no good goddamn.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Reason other than things had to be the way they
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: were for Rand to be born, right like Tigrain. I mean,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Tigraine had to go to the waste for Rand to
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: be born.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just weird that the Andorran siblings had to
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: be displaced that hard by magic.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: But Guitara is this like hinge point of foretellings where
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: everything she's foretold is essentially created Rand.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: She's kind of Nacomi esque in that way. It's very
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: avatar of the creator, just like right in there, like
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: hard inserting new code into reality.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: It feels like the pattern was like, here's my hammer,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: let me smash the you know, the pattern into place
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: with it a little bit right, my patch.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Notes inserted the crisper of destiny is what she hit.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this really seems to be. But yeah, and so
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of this just like what they're
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: waiting for and what they're waiting on, and why is
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: everybody sent out today? Because it was important that no
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: sisters be witnessed to this foretelling?
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I don't think that was Tomra's intention,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: but it sure worked out right.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: But I think that something about the foretelling told her
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: they had to send people out on this day, that
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: it was important for the future.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, yeah. The only thing that was left out
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: was the fact that Guitara's life was going to be
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: forfeit for that last text message from the creator.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Because just think about how important this day is, Like
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: it's the birth of the dragonr reborn. All the foretellings
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: of both I Said I and Ideal Wise Women have
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: led to this moment.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so many different layers and textures of visions coming
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: through to different groups to make sure that people know
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: what's going on today.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Dark visions too, Yeah, it's that important.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: It's like the Last Battle or Vans of Gold in
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Tel Irender. Odd. It's so important that it's manifesting even
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: in the dream world. This is so important that it's
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: manifesting your prophecies everywhere.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: The next bid is sort of like she and Suan's
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: backstory and how they became friends and the you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: fisherman's daughter and the noble woman, and how Suan's the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: leader Moraine's the follower, but their lockstep and their power
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: and that sort of just told backstory of them them
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: too coming together.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: And also the different parts of their experiences, not just
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: the class differences, but the cultural differences. Right that Moraine
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: was given a grand going away party, right for going
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: to travel on, whereas Swan was you know, bundled onto
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: a ship with barely time to say goodbye. Right, Like,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: not just the class differences, but like yeah, Tyrone versus
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Kyrine and approaches to channeling. So yeah, it's it's good
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: texture and backstory on them, and it all fits with
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: what we know about them elsewhere in the books. Right,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: there's not a lot of reht conning on their personalities
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: and backstories. There's a little bit of ret conning on
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: like the mechanics of the power, but not on the
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: development of these personalities and also their relative smartness. Right that,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Like Swan blew Moraine out of the water when it
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: came to academics, Right that she came to the Tower
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: barely literate and now is teaching the old tongue at
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: least the intro classes.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: You know, that gets nailed into our head over and
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: over and over again.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she is a puzzle solver, She is a polymath.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: She is a pattern seeker. She just soaks up information,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: she doesn't forget anything. She's intimidatingly intelligent, and Morine is
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: no slouch. But you know, Swan just has a natural
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: aptitude that has her outstripping everyone.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, another mention of the trumpets. Yeah, and I man,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I wish we could figure out what where the trumpets
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: were coming from, what the urgency of them was. I
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: can't even tell which side is blowing them.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's trumpets to announce the end of the world,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: I guess you know.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Encyclopedia Watt says that this is basically the ideal portraying
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: that King Layman is dead and that it's time. This
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: is them all basically saying we've accomplished our mission, this
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: is the end. Go home.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: Oh. The trumpets are literally the news being relayed across
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: the various forces.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Basically the iel that King Layman is dead.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, So because I was wondering at how the hell
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: they were moving that information so quickly across the army,
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: because it's a big army. They've taken over a lot
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: of things, They're in a lot of engagements, and Layman
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: dies and they all instantly turn around and go home.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, how you don't have passenger pigeons that
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: can do that. You don't have a telegraph, you don't
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: have radio trumpets. You can do that at the speed
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: of sound. You can relay that information quite rapidly. And
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: as far as we know, Layman was killed that night. Right,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: So that horn signal has been moving from Kyrin all
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: the way over to Tarvalen over the course of the
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: last several hours. Right, It's been moving for hours across
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: hundreds of miles.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: And the book uses the sound trumpets or the word
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: trumpets to describe the sound. So I'm not sure if
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: their horns. Isn't a trumpet a kind of horn, right.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Like squares and rectangles. I don't know. They do have
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: mars pen saying talking about he having instruments. They have
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: drums and pipes at some point, But yeah, do the
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: idell have horns to announce that with? They wouldn't have
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: conk shells because they don't have access to an ocean.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I don't obviously have any evidence that they do carry horns,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: but I feel like a signal horn is something that
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: it's not that hard to carry.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Do we ever hear of the Iel using horns to
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: communicate battle maneuvers elsewhere? I feel like we know that
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: that gets used for the main rand Land companies, but
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's mentioned in either other things. Maybe
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: it was the kyrie in in announcing the death. That's
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: an interesting thought, Marsapen. Maybe it's the non ideal forces
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: being like freak out guys.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think I feel horns feel very celebratory to me. No,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Bells sounds celebratory, but I don't know. I just if
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: the ideal have never used horns before or since, why
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: would they have them for now? But what are they?
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: What are they? Why is there a brass section in
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: this part of the plot.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: And yes, a trumpet is a type of horn, so
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: we can say horn or trumpet in this case.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Okay, cool, Yeah, Maureen probably would have known what they
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: were if it was a kyrie in and the king
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: is dead Morse code symple.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she definitely would. I'm I'm sticking by their ayeels
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: the iell announcing the death of King Layman. That's causing
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: their retreat.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I need them to have horns at any other
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: time in the book for that to make sense.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I Well, I think the issue is like I can't
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: necessarily find that, but we don't have. I seem to
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: remember them having signal horns at some point. I just
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: can't find the evidence for it.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: I know we've got signal horns for other armies, but
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: I don't recall them being Ael trumpets. Ye, but someone's
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: got something to announce with all these trumpets, and it
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: serves for Jordan to sync us up between Land and
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Moraine in this moment.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: See. The next thing I've got is mention of Elida
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: absolutely sucking, a detestable woman who is the best is
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: to die who have come out in recent years in
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: terms of her trajectory through the training program, aside from
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: up and coming Swan and Moraine.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: So it is our first mention of that issue, right,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: her personality and her oddjos sucks yeah yeah, and sort
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: of the the foreshadowing that in positions of power she
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: is abusive.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and also that she's going to be a problem
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: for this book, like she's she's gonna be a problem.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: She does not become a problem later in life. She
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: has a problem from the jump.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: The little bit about Ellen's book as she's like reading
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: outside in the hallway. I didn't really understand this whole
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: passage about like, what's the point. Yeah, just to show
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: that Moraine is like attempting to be an accepted and
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: still like not very good at it and figuring out
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: how to be like sort of showing her inability to
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: control a situation, even with the novice.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: There's a little bit of her of showing that Moraine
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: is not yet having the eyes to die calm, collected attitude,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: that she is still only an accepted and doesn't really
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: fully have her maturity together. But I think more it's
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: to make us care about Ellen or Ellen Ellen to
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: take us care about Ellen because she dies, she's the
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: one who fails her tests, And I think this is
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: mostly about showing her as a full and complete character
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: so that way we feel the loss when she dies,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: because no one expects her to die because she's just
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: a sweet, pretty girl who likes reading romance books and
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: you would never think of her as the one to
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: get tragically lost, right, But we of course know because
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: we're the twenty years later people. We see all these
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: things we recognize and then a few names we don't recognize,
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: and it's like, huh, why is that? And part of
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: it is because she dies, she goes into her Shawl
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: training and no one knows what happened. Her body doesn't
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: come back out.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: She just vanishes, disappears into the Yeah, she's one of
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: the ones who finishes into the rings. It never comes
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: back out again.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it freaks everyone out. It really impacts her cohort.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: So I think it's mostly to develop her as a
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: character and also to yeah, show more rain when she's
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: uncertain and childish about how she's trying to control a situation.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: But mostly it's Ellen.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: So I was thinking, if you have a white tower
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: of three thousand, I sid eye and I said, I
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: live on average about three hundred years. You need to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: graduate ten i sidi a year to maintain those numbers.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: On average, you'll have about ten deaths a year. They
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: are down to around one thousand, So they only really
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: need to graduate about three I sidy a year to
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: maintain those numbers. But that tells you how few, Like
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: three a year is just not very many graduates across
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: all of the world.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: And that's about what they're getting, right, Like they're getting
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: a small handful of graduates per year is what they're
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: down to.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: And it feels like this is a peak, right They
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: probably I think they have like five or six because
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: you get like serium and.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Right, right, a big year.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: It's a big year, right, yeah, exactly exactly when when
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: really to maintain your numbers at the level that they
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: should be at, you should be graduating ten every single
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: year like clockwork.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it should be anywhere from fifteen to twenty
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: most years if you want to keep growing it, if
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: you want to say that you're doing a good job
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: of recruiting and expanding your influence. But they're not.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: And that leads us into the foretelling.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fast and intense and changes the world.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I really like her knocking over the black ink and
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that spreading pool of black across the table top. Like
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a really cool metaphor symbolism for
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the spreading of like the darkness that's coming because of
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: this foretelling.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the taint, the shadow, the storm. Yeah, the visuals
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: of it, it's great. And like the also the visual
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: of the tea tumbling out of the hands so that Marien,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: you know, can catch her. Like it just all happens
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: in slow motion, even though he doesn't literally say it's
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: in slow motion, he writes it into slow motion. And
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: like the last thing that she wrote gets obscured.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Right, which I mean there was a letter that who
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: knows what she was working on, right, that was the
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: one that took her like multiple four hours. So she
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: probably wasn't writing anything of significance.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: But still, but we'll never know because this spreading darkness
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: stole it from us.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Uh huh uh huh. And then we get the prophecy.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: He is born again. I feel him. The dragon takes
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: his first breath on the slope of Dragon Mount. He
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: is coming. He is coming. Light help us, Light, help
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: the world. He lies in the snow and cries like
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: the thunder. He burns like the sun. Okay that last line,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: just because he's a redhead on a mountaintop does not
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: mean he burns like the sun. Yeah, Okay, I get it, cold, okay,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: saying he's getting he's getting his first suntan, and as
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: a redhead, he's not getting.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Care burns like a sheet of paper.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: But no, And for me, this prophecy is he is
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: born now in that moment, you know, Shaille is currently
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: giving birth.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like he's crowning right now, right now.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's so interesting that they interpret it as oh, well,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: maybe they have this window where maybe he was born
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: because they know he was born in snow and then
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the snow melted.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: Right like yeah, And I'm just like, don't discount guitara.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: She died for this foretelling. It is precise to the
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: instant when he said he takes his first breath. That's
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: because he was taking his first breath.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: And while she was saying the rest of the prophecy,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: he started screaming, you know, like.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like shail is actively having her last few breaths
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: before she dies. Levels of that is right when this
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: is happening.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: So you know, Rand kills guitara.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah his first death. Yeah, well did he kill guitar
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: at first? Or or Shaiel first? You know, because like
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Shayel was like kind of already probably definitely gonna die
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: like somewhere farther into the labor you know.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: But I think she had him for a while, like
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: she held him for a while. She didn't just like
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: she did not die with his first breath, unlike Katara.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Sure, okay, okay, yeah yeah, and guitarist doesn't even make
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: it to his list, right, how dare you ran? That's
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: a woman you missed old enough to be your great
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: great great grandmother, and you should feel responsible.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: His mother isn't even on the list and he definitely
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: killed her.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Seriously seriously and then yeah, Tamra responds very quickly and
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: intelligently to the situation and says, you two know exactly
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: what happened, so I'm gonna need you to take this
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: very fucking seriously, and they say yes, mother, and bye bye,
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: by sheer luck. Right. They aren't used to die at
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: this point. So when she gets tortured into give up
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: the name of every is Sidai who was on the mission,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: those two don't count because they were accepted and also
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: they were never formally inducted onto the mission. They were
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: self assigned to the mission, Like she knows about them,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: but she doesn't have to give up their names because
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: she never formally involved them and they were not eyes
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: to die when she did do her informal involvement, right.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: So she does the I said, I amending on the tooth.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Truth is she's because it's just the arrogance of the
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: black a Jahn. They don't consider novices as being or
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: accepted as being important or people, and so they don't
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: even think to ask about them.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: They're just children, and children historically have never done any
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: counterintelligence ever in the history of humanity. I do think
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that she says, if it's necessary, lie even
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: to a sister, and I'm like, cool, love that. However,
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: once they swear on the oath rod, they can't lie
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: even if you ordered them to. They didn't swear an
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: oath to obey you. There is nothing about their eyes
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: to die selves that would be able to follow that instruction.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: That's only true while they're accepted.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're accepted for now, and she needs them
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: for the next couple of days to really hide it.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I think as time goes on, it's less and less,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: But that brings us to chapter three.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Practice and our symbol is a fish.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: It's the swan fish, swanfish, the terran fish, I think.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's always the swanfish for me.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I would argue it's
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: a fish, not a swan. But you know whatever, Jordan,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: he wrote such good books and then wrote such mean,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: mean names.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: A little to talk about the addjaws. I did think
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: it was interesting, why are all the adjaws equal size
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: when some are larger than the others, like because the
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: people who built the tower didn't know that.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, because you need to account for natural
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: fluctuation without predicting the future too hard. Also, like, remember,
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: adjas back in the Age of Legends were temporary coalitions,
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: so there was no way to predict that there would
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: be like generation's deep trends towards some being bigger and
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: some being smaller.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: The tower was built a little bit later though, right, Like,
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like the tower was built after the ajas
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: were established. Formally, I don't know.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: I know that adja is a concept that existed in
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: the Age of Legends and came through the Breaking to
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: get formalized into capital a AJA in the tower, but
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: I don't actually know where that sits with respect to
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: the building of Tarblan.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: This is something I remember researching where I remember looking
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: into this and going like, oh, yeah, the tower was
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: actually built much later in the timeline than you would think,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: unless I'm getting that wrong. Yeah, it was built from
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: one hundred years after the breaking to two hundred years
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: after the breaking. Okay, by ninety eight AB, which was
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: the beginning of when the tower was built. The number
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: of aja decreased from an initial twelve to the current seven.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It is not known that these seven had any purpose
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: that was close to the purpose of the current Adjaws,
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: nor what the purpose of the other five were by
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: the end of the second century, So by the time
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: the White Tower was built, seven Ajaws were in existence
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: as formal not just groups of people. They were the
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Adjas at that point, even if their purpose has changed
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: over the years.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: So it totally makes sense that they built the tower
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: to have seven equal proportions because they were actively in
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: the process of figuring out what the third age Ajas
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: system was going to look like. So they were like,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: we're going to build this with as few predictions about
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: how this is going to look in the future as possibles,
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: going to make it seven evenly divided, and like the
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: future people can decide if that doesn't work for them.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: But you know, within one hundred years they had a
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: seven party system well established, which makes it I mean,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: look at the history of the US, right, we didn't
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: have a party system for what five years, Like we
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: very quickly got to a two party system.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: We had a lot of phases of figuring out what
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: kind of party system. Well, I won't say like that
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: that would be too strong of a word, but which
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: system we were going to use?
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: But if I remember correctly, we had a two party
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: system in America almost from the moment of the second
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: presidential election. I think maybe we didn't necessarily have during
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: the first.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: And it was really different because it used to be
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: that the president was from one party and the vice
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: president was the next runner up and so from the
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: other party. Like, the way that we interfaced with the
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: two party system was very different than than it is now.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: It's changed a lot, and the parties were very different
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: in purpose, right they were, Yeah.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: And also that also, yeah, whose interests were represented by
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: which party?
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: But I always think it's funny. I'm like, oh, three
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: hundred years, i mean, the White Tower just had barely
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: gotten started. I'm like, oh yeah, but the US is
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: like not even that old.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're about to turn two fifty. So yeah, they
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: leave the being with Tamra and Swan says, let's go practice.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Let's go do the first of many montage scenes about
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: practicing for the Shawl Test, and we get to talk
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: about a lot of stuff. Do more of their backstory,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: more of their personal dynamic, more of the details of
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: the tower and where they live. As we walk to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: their rooms and start to engage in yeah, a practice
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: session where Moraine does not do very well. Oh and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Swan talks about how she wants to see the world,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: She wants to travel, she wants to have adventures. She
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: can't imagine being stuck indoors in the tower for all
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: the time. And it makes you think about a section
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: we read not that long ago in the modern books
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: where she's like, how much of the world that she's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: saving had she even allowed herself to see? And it's
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: heartbreaking against here where she's like, no, the second I
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: get my shaw, I'm out. And we know that she
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: barely ever goes outside, much less leaves the island.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: And so all of that is information that I feel
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: is just like at I wouldn't call it recap, but
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: it's stuff that we know right like, it's stuff that
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: we've gone over many times. It's stuff that has come together.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Except for one thing that I wanted to talk about.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Moraine felt that small tingle again as the light of
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: sidar briefly surrounded the other woman. Any woman who could
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: channel could feel another wielding the power if she was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: close enough. But the tingle was unusual. Women who spend
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of time together and their training sometimes felt it,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: but the sensation was supposed to fade away over time.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Hers and Suans never had. What the fuck is that?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: What is this? Is this the Peter Tingle? Like? What
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: is going on here?
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: It's because they're soulmates and they were meant to be
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: together and getting hooked up with other men was wrong.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: This is a sign of their true romantic connection.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I guess obviously, but no, seriously, seriously, like other than
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: the fandom, they're in love, Like, what's going on here?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: I don't remember this ever being mentioned before. I don't
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: remember a Tingle in any of the context. I don't
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: have any idea how this works with the one power.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: It doesn't even get mentioned again, does.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: It, right? Not that I know of, And I'm like, we.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: Didn't even get that with Elena and Aguaine.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: No, it's not mentioned again in this book. The word
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: tingle no longer does not appear again in this book.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with Moraine. It's a sign of their friendship
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: and it should have had some relevance other than being
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: Jordan's like most most willing to stand on saying that
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: they are in fact soulmates.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: The other line I had in this section we were
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: just reading, Morain is thinking the Tower taught at students
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: to live with what they could not change, but some
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: things were important enough to try even if you were
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: sure to fail. And having heard just had been rescued
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: from the Tower of Genji in the last book we
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: were reading, I was like, Yeah, that's Morain. That's Morain.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you do things where even if you are sure
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: to fail, you just got to power through. That's a
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: I'm a ray. That's a lesson that she has from
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: before now right. It is something she learned as a child,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: but it is how she's able to do what she
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: does in all of the books the Old Sorry.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: The only other thing I wanted to bring up with
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: the tingle that I could see occurring somewhere else or
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: something related to it, is in Suldom and Demane, and
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: the fact that Suldom can often like develop these sensations
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: around Demany they work with enough, and that maybe there's
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: something beyond just sensing the other person channeling. That was
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: the only kind of tingle that maybe I could think of.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Was related that you have two people who work closely enough,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: and that if they, you know, the Sudom say, they
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: work long enough, they can start to sense the channeling.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's supposed to be because they don't have
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: any other means of training, and that's the closest they
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: get to training. And like these these women are you know, training, right.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Or maybe it's something like what the women can sense
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: men channeling and there's a tingle and it's a similar
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: sort of like that set, but you have to be
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: really really close with that person to develop it.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: The lesbians, it's a lesbian tingle.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but think about how that relates to the tingle
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: that men sense when they feel women. Right, It's like, oh,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: if you are attracted to women, you can feel the tingle.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: It's literal gay dar. Yeah alright, So next I've got
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: is the montage of their pranks talking about washing Elida's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: clothes with poison oak, which is amazing.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Putting fish in the fountain.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah. Then here's here's one of the lines
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: that made me really think of Ninive. Too much temper
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: and you could not hold on to Sidar at all,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: even after her six years of work at it. Her
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: channeling required at least a degree of calm twenty years later.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: You know, a little girl who's like about six right
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: now is going to be so powerful that she can
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: be ragingly angry and still channel, and Moraine is.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Going to be has to be ragingly angry at the channel.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: And Moraine is going to be integral to that girl
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: learning how to channel and building a block around it.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: Part of the reason why Ninive has a block is
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: because she hates Moraine, like Moraine is the face of
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: all eyes to die. When she's putting up those angry walls.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I kind of thought, she I will. You're right,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: because we established that she didn't necessarily have the block
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: in the beginning.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she just wasn't trained. It wasn't easy for her
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: to channel because she'd only ever like done it once
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: or twice. But yeah, there's a very specific thing where
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: when she starts to lean into the lessons, she starts
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: to make herself angry, and that's kind of where the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: block comes from. Moraine is the face of the iseside
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: represented in that block.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Oh one follow up. Apparently Moraine feels the tingle in
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: The Great Hunt chapter four when she encounters to one.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, when they meet again, that's the first time
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: it ever gets mentioned is they've always had this special connection,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: which again I'm like.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: This is a reference to that.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: It's because they're soulmates. It's because they're soulmates.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, okay, no follow up to that. All right,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: a little bit about the power.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and never're intod the test or the practice for
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: the test. I think it's I think that part of
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: the reason why a lot of the weaves don't require
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: hand gestures is because they haven't changed since the age
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: of Legends, when there was a lot less of modern
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: isidye handwaving involved. So now it's like antiquated ways of
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: weaving because they haven't changed in three thousand years.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Right, these are old weaves. Yeah, that makes sense. Get
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: just a lot of stuff about the one power, the
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: exponential growth, Like the more weaves you have hold, the
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: harder it is, the more power you draw, the more
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: tempting it is to draw more. The interest thing about
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: is how size doesn't matter with the weaves, which plays
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: an important role with Nineve later when she attacks all
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: the trocks and stuff by banking the weaves really big
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: and dumping a bunch of power into it. It's just
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: it's fun it's fun reference. I really enjoy reading this
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. I'm not sure I have a lot
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: to say about it because it is just the world
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: building that we know and love.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Right right right, Yeah, totally. It's good little montage explanation writing.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: And then layered into that is the conversation that they
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: have out. How is the red Auja going to respond
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: to news of the dragon being reborn? Will they be
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: able to leave him alone? Will they follow the law?
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Will they care about him? These are the questions that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: the two of them are considering before all of the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: chaos with the Reds, that will will come right because
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: and they're talking about like the rumor of how some
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Reds don't even try that hard to take men alive
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: who need to be gentled, right, Yeah, that's just a rumor,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: no one. The vileness is about to kick into high year.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: The Reds have been doing human rights abuses because they're
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: protected by the state and have qualified immunity for a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: long time. But the vileness is going to pick up
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: and be a thing, like what over the next two
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: years or something like that. It hasn't happened yet, but
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: it's going to start happening in like a week and
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: then last for however many years it last before it
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: gets shut down.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: It happens because of the prophecy. So as they're practicing
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: my reel walks in Land's future.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: Lover, Moraine's friend who she's willing to go to when
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: she's worried about what to do with Land, and she says,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: you're the one I can trust to take care of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: him and then hand him off to Nineve when the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: time is right. Like she talks about how she's not
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: as good of a friend as Swan, but she's still
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: a very good friend, and I mean she's the one
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: she picks for Land.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: So and it ret cons a little bit, this sort
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: of because Mareel is not introduced until much later in
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: the actual series, and this retcons that, oh she was
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: there the whole time a little bit. He's doing that
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: a lot with these Iiday.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: He has a lot of ranks of Isidi that aren't
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: named in the original books. There's plenty of room to say, yeah,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: one of the name unnamed eyes that I was Morrel.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: It's one of those like, oh, this is my best friend.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Oh you've never mentioned your best friend before. That seems odd,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: but okay.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, Morel comes in and picks up on
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: the fact that they have a secret, but is very
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: easily redirected to misinterpreting what that secret is, right, Swan,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Game of Houses are real good and then allows misinformation
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: to do what was best and obfuscate the truth by
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: telling mostly the truth but obfuscating the most important part
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: of the truth.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Morel is like, so with these iell attacking, last
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: battle's coming, right, and they're like, wait, how do you
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: know that?
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: She's like, because the rumor mill, like obviously they for
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: a moment they think she's talking about how the prophecy
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: said the dragon has been reborn, and she's like, no, no, no,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: just the iell being you know.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: It's She comes in with like, oh, yep, world's end. World,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: world is ending like every other day, and they're like,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: oh shit, how does she know? Oh, she's just saying that.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so then yeah. Swan also distracts Morrel with saying, yeah,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: help me torture Morain, right, you know, keeps it all
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: light hearted and fluffy and not going to think about
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: it too hard.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: And they break her a bunch of times.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: Morrell likes ice clever.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm, does she really like ice in her bedroom.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: Interesting ice peppers, what well.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: You got to keep land entertained some way? And he
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: does is used to the cold of Malcaire.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so Swan and morel are doing awkward, embarrassing,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: painful things. And there's this line here that made me
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: think about the weird trauma bonding of the Tower. One
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: thing every accepted agreed on was that whatever the sisters
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: did to you in the test would be worse than
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: anything your friends could think of. And if they were
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: your friends, they would do the worst they could think of,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: sort of actual harm to help you.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: Prepare haze ing hazing.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: It's good for me. I love you. You can tell
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: I love you because I made you feel like you're
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: in mortal peril. Like what kind of warped, twisted emotional
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: damage are They just making sure that every successive generation
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: has as they go out into the world as responsible,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: long lived magic wielders. You know, the people that you
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: love and trust the most are also the ones who
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: will hurt you the worst. And that is an expression
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: of love, not of abuse, Like, ah, that's your abuse.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Seeing each other in the name of survival, and that's
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: a sign of friendship.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Yesh that's a brutal world. It's a brutal world.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: I do not like it.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Would you like it in a box?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: Not in a box? What are you talking about a box? Nope?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: How about with a fox.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: You know, in and raven and dice.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: I was thinking in a tower and box and snakes?
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Wait did Jordan just based this whole thing on Doctor Seuss?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: The wheel of time turns living snakes that become foxes.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: So marine things a couple of times about passing on
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: your first try for eyes to die, but you only
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: get one chance, right, it's the accepted test that you
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: get multiple passes at.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Isn't the thing where you can you can say no
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: three times in the third time. That's the accepted test.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: That's the accepted test. Like the best of my understanding,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: the Shawl test is one and you generally die or pass.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Ni Neive is weird because she lives without potentially passing.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: But as far as I recalled that, the accepted test
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: is the.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: One with multiple tries, yeah, I mean, I guess yeah,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: because if you get the to the end of the
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: test and they say you didn't pass, you're just.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: Expelled, right, unless I'm just super confused because he says
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: it multiple times, so it's like he really believes it.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does really seem to be that, like failure
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: is death right, like, and it's a summoning. It's not
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: something you get to like say no to.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I didn't understand that on the first
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: try comment that gets made multiple times.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm right there with you. That's that's it
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem like you ever get You get summoned once
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: and you get to take it then and if you
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: don't take it, you don't get to be icid eye
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: and if you fail, you're dead. Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: So I don't know what's up with that obvious mistake
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: getting through.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Other than like ninive they did vote. They almost voted
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: n neve not to pass, right, like.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but she's like, it's really rare to fail and
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: not be dead. Failure and death are usual the same thing, right,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: She's only on trial because she didn't show de koorum
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: while surviving.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, however, if failed, she will not be allowed to
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: retake the test and will be put out of the tower.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe there's like a situation where they like a woman
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: ends up like she's going to die and she can't
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: do anything about it, so they decide to like pull
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: her out because they'd rather like try again with her
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: or something. I don't know. I'm confused about the rules here.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: That really does feel like he confused it with the
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: accepted test.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what it feels like. That's the simplest explanation
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: is he just got wrong about that, and everyone else
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, sounds right. All right. So next we
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: have Tarna fear busting into the room. This is someone
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: who becomes black Auja but is currently an accepted.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Isn't she turned in the tower, the Black Tower. I
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: just I just looked her up and that's what Uh.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm in confusing her with someone else. Oh she
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: gets turned Okay, so she's not a black Oja. I'm sorry, Tarna,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: that was rude of me.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: She's one of the ones who agrees with Pavara they
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: should leave the Black Tower. Then suddenly starts acting strange.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: We just actually just did that chapter, yes, right.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: Right, right, right, Yeah, her eyes changed. Yeah, she is
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: an Elida loyalist. She does on the side of the tower,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: so she is an antagonist, but she is not black.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Because she's she's with the Pivara group, which are the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: Alida loyalist Red Sisters who end up in the tower.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I also believe she's the one that talks to
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: Elaine in Saladar about being in rebellion being a stupid
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: move for the future Queen of Ander. Yeah, I'm pretty
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: sure she's the one who kind of scolds Elaine on
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: that point.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: And she she's the trader.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: Bayon In is the trader. Tarna is the envoy who
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: finds Saladar, and Saladar freaks out because they're like, how
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: the hell could she have found us? That's because of.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, you're right.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: But yeah, she is the first Red Aja that is
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: super annoying and terrible, but is like also probably not
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: evil when you're reading, Oh.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: And Glena a pass at her, but yeah, Tarna declines, Yeah.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's annoying and rude, but she's not evil until
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: she becomes, you know, forcibly turned evil, and then arguably
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: it's not her. But yeah, Tarna has shown up to
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: say that the Omberlin has summoned all accepted for an announcement.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: That's why she's there.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: So and also Guitar Moroso was dead.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and guitar Moros is dead. And that's when
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: Morell's like, what, that's the secret you were keeping from me? Ohn, No,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: that's so. And so they're able to easily say no, no, no,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: I mean we were just told like, yeah, we saw it,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: but we were told not to make an announcement, blah
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: blah blah, and like it's easy to just there's no
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: reason to mention the foretelling at all. And then and
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: then Tarna says, so was there a foretelling? And Morain
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: isodize it right, She says, I was handing her cup
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: of tea, she gasped and fell dead in my arms.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: So then later Tarna gives the lie for Moraine and says,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: Moraine told me that there was no foretelling. Morain never said,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: but is not lying either. She is communicating information she misinterpreted.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: You may call me followed by her name is right.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're not I used to die. None of
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: them are bound to the three o's, but they are
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: all bound to practice as though they were bound by
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: the three Ods.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: But that and that could have gotten by with the
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: three oaths.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Absolutely perfectly watertight. The three o's would have had no
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: issue with.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: That exchange because everyone believed they were telling.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: The truth, because they're all just about ready to test
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: for the Shawl. They've really got the important parts down.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: So yeah, they run down the hallway to get to
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: the meeting. We get more contemplation of the numbers and
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: how empty the tower is, and then an absolute barrage
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: of names. It's not the worst barrage of names we'll
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: get in this episode, but it's a barrage of names.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Mmmm. Yeah, I didn't really dig too deep into it.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: No, No, it's just a lot of Here's how the
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: sea folk interact with the White Tower. Here's how the
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: tuatha on interact with the White Tower. Here's the relative
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: ages of all these characters that you've met. Here's all
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: all of them being of the same age. Cohor. This
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: was the book where I was like, wait a second,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: all the I sidie that matter are of the same age.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Coch Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: Really that doesn't like Varren gets to be one of
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: the few exceptions. You know, Like Varren's mentioned here repeatedly.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: She's obviously already hundreds of years old. But it's like
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: any names are all accepted right now.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: No, And we get the sort of description of how
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: the sea folk. She The one thing I liked about
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: the sea folk description is she's faking being bad. If
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: you'll notice, Maureen had Senior fumble a weave time after
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: time before suddenly settling into it so perfectly you wondered
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: why she had failed before. Oh, she's faking being bad.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: I thought she was just slow to learn.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: No, because all the sea folks pretend like they're not
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: very good even if they are good, because they don't
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: want isid I going to the sea folk to recruit them. Also,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: she was probably trained by a wind find her before
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: she was sent off to the tower, So even if
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: she's not necessarily more powerful, she's probably been pre trained.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's I had not caught that. That's a
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: good cash that. Yeah, she's like, I have to mess
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: up eight times before I can do it right, So
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: then when she does it right, it doesn't look like
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: she got it right for the first time exactly.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Well, that makes sense.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: That makes sense.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: Because she shouldn't know anything about channeling because she's coming
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: from the c folk, which know nothing about channeling.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: Right, right, Oh, here's an accepted who I believe is
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: black Goja. Eventually Isisley Noon. But she becomes black Gauja. Right,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: she's part of the thirteen that do you murder and
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: take off?
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I don't recognize that name. But no, not as
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: far as I can tell. She's part of the fifty
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: one sisters sent by Elida to the Black Tower, and
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: she is bonded by Arl Malvin.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: Well, fine, then I guess I confused her with someone else.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not doing good on my name associations today.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Un Let's just see if there's anything in she is
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: stays with Logan after he sends groups of Aschaman to
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: try and find the seals. We suppose she was with
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: Arel and so she escaped the capture and forced conversion
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: to the Shadow.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just out here slandering people.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Not only is she not black, she's not even converted
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: to black.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: That's too much slander on my part.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: And Mars the band saying that they don't send just
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: the weakest one finders. They actually are instructed to pretend
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: to be bad at channeling.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: So that's bonkers, all right. So Tamra comes out and
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: announces we are giving away a crap ton of money
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: to anyone who happened to give birth in this window
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: of time, and I'm talking anybody like, because we have
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: all the money because we are the Vatican and we
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: have stolen so much gold, I mean, gotten tribute.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: At this point, they're just printing. I mean, I still
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: believe that they just use magic e more gold, right,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Like somehow they're doing something. I know they say they're not,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: but like, what the hell?
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: I think they must own like a lot of real
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: estate under Taco Bells across the continent.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: Usury Jordan says they're like the only existing central bank
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: in the world, so a lot of their money comes
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: from interest.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: Really yep, so the Vatican and Switzerland. Yes, I mean
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: that's a very secure position to be in, I suppose, and.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: It's all secured with the one power. Right, you're not
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: never gonna take away the ice that I wealth. They
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: can always guarantee it because they have the power.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, No, if they're everyone's bank, then I guess
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: owning owning all the properties under Taco Bells across the
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: continent isn't necessary.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: Also, they're on the biggest river on the eastern and.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: Taxing river trade is always lucrative.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: As he Basically, everything from the borderlands down to tier
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: and that whole and what's the other coastal city tier
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: and Ilien, and it would like I think pretty much
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: all the trade goes through tarvallon between those two major ports.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: Again secured by the power where you can have much
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: better protection against rats and against humidity and other things necessary.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: And all the stuff from Shara that comes across the waste, right,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: goes to Ilion and those ports, because that's how you
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: take a ship. You don't cross the waste, you take
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: a ship, Yeah, and then you go up the river. Yeah.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: So between yeah, holding all the money and facilitating all
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: the trade. Yeah, a little bit of tribute from some kings,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: a little bit of interest on your properties that you
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: happen to have acquired across the content. Yeah, you should
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: be sitting pretty good able to give away.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Charging for healing.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: They don't do that, I know, right, they don't give
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: away healing. They don't charge for healing. They just I mean,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: I guess they give away healing when people come ask
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: for it, but they don't just give it away. But yeah,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: so they have because this is a lot of money.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: We're talking about giving one hundred gold crowns to every
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: woman who gave birth in this like three hundred mile
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: radius across like a week of time. Like that is
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of zeros.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Because and it's enough to buy you know, a farm
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: and a house. Right Like, So that five hundred thousand
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: dollars equivalent today right to buy a piece of property.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: Multiplied by how many thousands of babies? Mm hmmm hm,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: like a couple thousand. There's a lot of zeros, many
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: commas in this number.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Now you're talking about spending like one hundred million dollars
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: essentially equivalent to do this.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: This is actually going to take the levels of your
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: money down a notch.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: But imagine the good will it gets them, right and like,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: but also what a transparent move to the people who
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: are like, oh what, I wonder what she's looking for.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: I wonder what all these resources are going into, right, Like,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: I get that she needs to mobilize the whole tower,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: and this is her excuse, but it's a pretty flimsy excuse.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: I feel like one hundred gold crowns is too ostentatious, right,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Like ball War says like you shouldn't pay the spy
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: master the most, even though he's the most valuable. Like also,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: I feel like we should have seen some signs out
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: in the world of families who had had their fortunes
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: changed by getting one hundred gold crowns.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Twenty years ago.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: We should have seen a couple of those, just random
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: you know, young men that never got killed and also
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: just got to live quiet lives.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not clear on this. Are they actually handing
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: out the money or are they just taking names for
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: the money to be handed out later.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: The latter they're gonna get it sent along later. They're
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: not being sent out with chests of gold to hand
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: out on site, right.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: So what I'm wondering if maybe that like the filtering
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: goes down heavy and they don't give out as much
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: as they say they're going to, so.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: It's like American Health insurance basically, actually you get fifty
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: cents at the end.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Or oh yeah, no, I that Amberlin was going to
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: send out the money, but we've got a new Amberline
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: now since she died, so none of that money gets
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: sent out.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: The one who succeeds her does say that she thinks
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: it's dumb and she's going to try to stop it.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: So between that and the Black Aja killing off a
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: lot of the recipients, Yeah, they might be a lot
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: less families who actually received that money than we would.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot. I met a lot of never got
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: the claimant because they either got murdered and disappeared.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: And they really are the Vatican full of bullshit because
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: this is a promise.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: We never see them actually give out any money.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: It would have been really cool if, like during one
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: of the travel montages, if they'd run across yeah, some
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: young man who's like, yeah, I don't know, I got
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: a bunch of money for being born, and so I
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: started up a cartwright business and I'm very happy. Yeah, totally,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: just like Nepo baby and out as a cobbler or whatever.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing that's going to make you lucky,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: which is going to make you a target for the
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: Black Auja.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: They can't have killed all of them. They can't have
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: killed all of them. That's ridiculous, I agree.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: And there's the moment where we see that like Moraine
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: is not investigating every single one of them, They are
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: winnowing it down to just the potential names that could
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: be the Dragon Reborn.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: All the girls were not going to get killed, but
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: the Black Oja, lots of girls were able to make
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: this claim. For money. They can't all have been denied
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: and they wouldn't have been killed because they didn't have,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: you know, a dick. So there's a lot of women
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: who could have like started up an inn or something
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: with like that kind of money. Or or maybe it
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: just all went into diapers.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know. And I think it's important to say,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: like there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn will be a male, right, he is born again, right,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: there's no there's no.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: Sense of people swapping genders from their previous lives, right,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: even though we do know that Amaresu can be there
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: is a female dragon that exists and that Amaresu is one,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: but like, there's no doubt that this is the male
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: dragon reborn, right, And.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: I always felt that the female dragon reborn was weak,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: Like what are we on a twelve fourteen cycles? Like
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: is the do we alternate dragons? So that I mean,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: I guess that would make sense to have the female
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: half corrupted in one cycle and the male half corrupted
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: in the next.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: Right, Like the male like breaks it repairs it, and
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: then it's a female starting to break it.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Repair it exactly exactly. Maybe, But I agree that feels
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: it doesn't sort of fit the whole cycle and the repeat,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: and like it feels like the female problem would be
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: something else like that. Again, that feels more like shadow
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: logos as the female evil that needs to be combat.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: Poisons.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Oh that is that does feel like, Yes, you've got
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: female evil is vitriol and talking and male evil is
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: war and fighting. Mmm, I and put that together. But yeah,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: that is kind of outs framed, doesn't it.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe maybe putting your good evil and
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: your male female axes too close together for world building
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: is just going to land you in hot water.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: Occasionally, Yeah, totally.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: She describes the mission right and everything that will help them,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: does the colombo, by the way, and then yeah, right
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: at the end, right at the end, the most important
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: thing is just slipped in like an afterthought, hidden in
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: plain sight. Also, it's a blinking neon sign to anyone
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: who is looking for signs about what she's doing. Anyone
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: with half a brain on the dark Euga side or
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: on the black Uga side on the dark friend's side
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: is like, hmm, she's looking for babies as she really
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: cares what gender they are. Can't imagine what that's about.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: But also then they do take several years to figure
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: out that it's not a grown man. So, like, I
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: don't know, maybe the darkness are all stupid.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like they're numb because they, like I said,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: they know he's reborn, they just don't know he's not
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: a baby. They're allowed to lie and say that their
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: ice at eye. You know, they're allowed to imply imply
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: that their ice ad ice not I should say, not
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: say that they're accepted.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they are explicitly told that they can't lie, but
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: they are certainly allowed to let people believe what they
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: will believe. Thank you for listening to the Wheel of
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and review us on your
• 1:28:38
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• 1:28:41
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• 1:28:45
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• 1:28:49
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