Latest / Boots And Chutes Unfiltered / Episode 06: Ranger and Army Legend, Chaplain LTC Charlie Shields

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Episode 06: Ranger and Army Legend, Chaplain LTC Charlie Shields · Boots And Chutes Unfiltered

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See, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to episode 6 of
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Boots and Shoots Unfiltered. Tonight we got an awesome guest,
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Chaplain, Lieutenant Colonel Charlie Shields.
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Been around the Army, you guys been.
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I think you've done everything you can imagine or imagine in
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the service. So enlisted guy to, you know,
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officer now. So Lieutenant Colonel, Chaplain,
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so, you know, we wanted to get him on here and just, you know,
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just BS and like, listen, you know, listen to what he's got to
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say and he'd tell his story because it's pretty awesome. 1
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pretty motivated one to tell. So, Chris, you got anything to
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open? You open comments, Commander.
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Just happy to have you on like we were discussing beforehand,
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it's it's been too long since we've seen each other.
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Yes, Sarah. Yeah, so, Charlie, you can just
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kick it off, man. Tell me.
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Tell us who you are and like where you're from.
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So I'm Charlie Shields. I, I grew up in Indiana.
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I joined the Army the day after I turned 17 and left.
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And I've been married to my wife now for 39 years.
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And I'm sitting in the 23rd house that we've lived in.
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You know, I've only done 2 jobs in my entire life.
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I've done military and the ministry and then I've done the
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ministry in the military. And so I've, I've had a pretty
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great run of things and I'm about to wrap it up here in a
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couple months. Yeah, it's come, it's going to
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come fast, Charlie comes fast and you start to realize I
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that's because I, I retired in May, so I've been out end of the
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month. Now will be a year for me so.
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Man, that seems like it was. Yesterday I know I still I still
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look 30 years I still look back on it since man good times I
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don't want to forget but yeah so thank you for coming on Charlie.
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Hey guys, Charlie's a busy man, you know, doing what he's got to
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do with his work, but he took time to come on here and and,
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you know, give us a little bit of a, you know what, what's
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going on and what's going on in the world with him.
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And, you know, some advice for y'all that are listening in.
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So. So what?
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Where are you from, Charlie? I grew up in Bloomington, IN.
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Bloomington, IN Would, would did you go?
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Did you play sports in high school or anything like that?
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I was a wrestler and ran cross country, but I wasn't great.
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I wasn't great in any of them. I was AI was a good soldier, but
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I was not. I just made the team.
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I was in a small school and, you know, healthy.
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It was kind of like if you showed up and you know, you
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could you could play. I mean, I lettered all all my
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years that I played sports, but I wasn't no one was looking at
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me for any kind of like, Oh, this guy's going to do something
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great. I was like, I whatever kids,
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you're up next. Yeah.
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What made you, Did you what you think about the military during
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high school or did you, I mean, how did you kind of get on that?
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Yeah, I come from AI, come from a long family of military
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service. My, my grandfather was on the, I
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forget that the aircraft carrier where the Japanese surrendered.
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My grandfather was on the deck of that.
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My my uncle, my dad's little brother has a picture of him on
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the deck of that. And then my dad was in just
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after the Korean War. He was also in the Navy.
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I have an uncle. It was a Marine Corps Raider in
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Korea. So I grew up.
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I didn't know my grandfather, He died when I was little in an
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accident. But I grew up with all of his
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World War Two friends and then my dad and his friends and then
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his friends sons were Vietnam vets.
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I still remember very vividly a friend of my dad's.
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His son came to see us before he went to.
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He went to in your line of work as a Marine.
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He went to South Carolina, right.
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And he went to boot camp, came back, went to Vietnam, came
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back. And I just remember thinking at
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a very young age that like, all I want to do is just, I just
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want to be some type of a soldier.
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And, and then I learned about the Army Rangers and I went and
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saw a recruiter. I was 16 the week I turned 17.
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My birthday is next month. And so the week I turned 17, I
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went and saw a recruiter and I said, hey, man, I want to join
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the Army and I want to be an Airborne Ranger.
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And he said, how old are you? I said I'll be 17 on Friday.
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He said, well, your will, your will, your parents sign.
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I said it's just my dad that yeah, he'll sign.
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And so I took the ASVAB and he came out to the house on
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Saturday and I joined the Army. Nice.
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And like the Ranger contract, right?
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Yeah, awesome. I'm curious, right, because I
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had similar in why I went infantry, but I was already in
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the military at that point. I I wanted to go to Ranger
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School. What what drew you to being a
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Ranger? How did you find out about being
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a Ranger? Well, it's funny.
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So the the truth of the story is, I wish I could just say to
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you, man, I just wanted to be an airborne Ranger.
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But the truth of it is I want to be a Navy SEAL.
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My dad was the Navy, my grandpa was the Navy.
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And so this was 1983 and you, you couldn't just join the Navy
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to be a SEAL. You had to do an enlistment and
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then re enlist or, or trial for buds or something.
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And my dad was like, don't do it.
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If you do it, you're asking me on a, you'll be on some
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destroyer and you'll never, it'll never happened that
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they're lying to you. And then my uncle was a Marine
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Corps Raider. And so I thought maybe I'll try
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the the Raiders. And I was sitting outside the
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Marine Corps recruiting office and the Army recruiter came by
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and he was like, what are you doing?
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I thought you wanted to be a Navy SEAL because I've kind of
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seen them. And I was like, yeah, I, my own
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man said that that's not a good choice.
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I thought I'd talk to see if that could be a Raider.
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And he was like, have you heard of the Rangers?
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I said, I have. He said, you want to be an
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airborne Ranger? I said, can you guarantee it?
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He said, I can give you a contract or they're standing up
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this new battalion at Fort Benning, Georgia, and I can give
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you, if you can score high enough on the ASVAB.
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He said, I can give you a contract like this week.
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And I was like, all right, let's do it.
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And so, and then we went in and it was how old are you and.
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What year was that, Charlie? What year was that?
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June 1983. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I watched the Grenada happen. I still remember when, you know,
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October 83, when the Grenada happened and I came home from
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wrestling practice. It was October, of course, and I
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came home and I saw this happen. I saw this, you know, I saw the,
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the, the combat jump into Grenada, skirmish, the fighting,
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you know, and my stepmother said, you know, why are you so
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interested in that? And I said I'm going to be one
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of those guys in about 5 months. I'm, I left in January.
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I said I, I just, I just signed a contract to be one of those
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guys. I can't wait.
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I hope they saved some war for me, you know?
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17, Yeah, yeah. Jeez you, you went to basic and
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then you went straight there. You went to basic training, you
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went to AIT. I don't know it was called
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different any back then in E3 but went to AIT free inter
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training. Then you went to Ranger School.
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No, I went to basic and AIT and then I the day I graduated basic
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and AIT like on a a Wednesday or Thursday, I went straight over
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cross post, went to air one school.
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Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Graduated air one school and then went to back then it was
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called RIP Ranger indoctrination program.
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All it did was if it was just three weeks of peer hazing to
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see who's going to quit. But I mean, I grew up, I grew up
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pretty rough in Indiana and, and I was like, there ain't no, you
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know, I ain't, I ain't quitting. And then when I went to
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battalion, and then I didn't go to Ranger School until I went to
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Ranger School in 1985 as a private.
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Yeah. How, how was RIP compared to, I
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mean, it was probably one of the hardest things you did so far, I
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mean, in your career. I mean, jumping at airplanes,
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jumping at airplanes and all that kind.
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Of stuff. You know, right in the Ranger
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community. Well, they were all Grenada
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Raiders, so all so I'd imagine so are you are you a brigade
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commander now, Sir? You know 6.
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No, no, no, no. I'm, I'm a shrag.
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I'm I'm something else now. OK, All right, so you can
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imagine you and the star major here are command team and they
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come and 10th Mountain comes and says, hey, we're going to stand
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up another battalion. We need some Ncosi mean you're
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like, Oh yeah, I got a list of Ncos for you.
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Here's all my ass and trash, right.
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And I'm not saying they were all ass and trash, but we got the
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drunks and and the, you know, all the dudes that would have
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been RFS today for troop abuse. And like, I mean, they were
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rough from first and second range fan.
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I can still remember their names.
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I can I can still remember Ian Coffold was my first team
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leader. We had a guy named Hatfield from
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First First Range Battalion and he and he was from the Hatfields
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and the Mccoys. And how many guys were, how many
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guys were really in that class? So the first year that I was in
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375, I don't want to exaggerate numbers, but I would tell you
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that, I would tell you that 700 privates came and came and left
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in the first year, came in, made it through RIP.
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And then, you know, a month and two months and quit.
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And then, and then they ended up on, you know, I remember my
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first platoon sergeant's name was Sergeant Getz.
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He was a Vietnam vet, E7, Vietnam Marine Corps vet.
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And back then, you know, they didn't let Army couldn't wear a
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seat. If you were a prime Marine, Viet
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Vietnam, you didn't get to wear a Marine Corps combat patch or a
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CIB. All my all of my leadership, E7
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and above were all Vietnam vets. First Sergeant Joe Hecker.
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I remember all those guys. I was 17.
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They were, it made such an impact on me.
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Like I still remember them. My first battalion commander,
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William CEO, the 3rd just passed away about a month ago.
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And I mean, God, I could talk to you guys for hours about the
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impact that it had on me. I went to speak, I went to Third
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Range Battalion in 2018 and spoke with their ball when Mike
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Kupper was there as a battalion commander with Johnston because
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they were doing a legacy thing. And so I was, you know, I was a
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plain, I'm a plain colder from 375.
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But those guys came in and, and yeah, they were tough.
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I mean, they were, they were, they were the Army would call
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them today toxic. I felt like I was in a
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fraternity and I was joining a brotherhood.
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I didn't feel like it was toxic. I never felt like I was abused.
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I just like to be honest with you.
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I I felt like, you know, game on.
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You know, she goes, we're going to smoke your ass.
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I was like, you can't smoke me. Were you in pretty good shape,
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though? I mean, were you like, was
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there, was there anything there that was like, fuck, this is
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hard like. No, just yeah.
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The running the the, you know, back in the 80s, a good Rangers
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could run like you could listen, you could be an alcoholic.
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You can beat your wife, OK, you you know, you might have an MD
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in the barracks, but that's something you can run.
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So you know. So I remember I was, I was, I
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remember like I was just kind of in the middle of a pack.
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And I found out really quickly that you weren't going to get a
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chance to go to Rangers school and get your tab.
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And you were a nobody if you didn't have a tab unless you
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could run. And so I was 17.
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I turned 18 and I, I just was like, I'm going to commit myself
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to getting in shape. And I got in really good shape
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and I went from the middle of the pack to the front of the
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pack. And then I got a chance to go to
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rancher school before most of my peers did.
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And so I went from E3I, graduated rancher school in
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November 1985, and I pinned on Sergeant February 1986.
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So 90 days. Did you go straight through
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rancher school? Was it straight through?
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I did, yeah, I did. But I had been to all the
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phases. Was that they have they have
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desert phase back then. That's right.
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I had not been in I did go to desert.
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I was first class to go to Doug Way.
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Listen, I was I was a chap on the six Rangers range for 10 and
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they talk about they do like risk analysis, you know, and I'm
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like you candy asses. Like when I went to Ranger
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School, we in flight rig twice, Ranger students in flight rig
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twice. I was like, I don't want.
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I was in the Dugway, Utah. It snowed knee deep one night
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and there was no gore Tex. I had socks on my hands, you
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know? So yeah, I.
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Remember. I have loved the Army.
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I have. I was, I don't want to cut you
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off. I'll tell you, I'll just tell
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you that that just be kind of as we, as we make our way through
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this, this thing I have, I have loved the Army longer.
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I've been married for 39 years next month.
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I have known and loved the Army longer than my wife, who I
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adore. Yeah, that's crazy.
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Now, what I was going to say is I remember, I can't remember the
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name of the book, but it was basically it was like a
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collection of Ranger stories, you know, people that had gone
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through and, and advice on Ranger School and stuff like
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that, that I picked up probably at the PX or something when I
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was going through OVC, getting ready to go to Ranger School and
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some of the stories about going out and doing desert phase and
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that's it. It always seemed like Desert
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Phase was the one where it it got people the most with some of
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the crazy stories. As far as yeah, I never saw this
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one, but I did. I must have read about it in a
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book. In that book, rather, you know,
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people walking up the trees and trying to put coins in trees to
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get drinks. Oh, yeah, yeah.
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I remember being in Florida and we were in, we, we because you,
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I went, it was Benning Mountains, desert and then
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Florida. And by the time we got to
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Florida, it was one MRE a day when I went also.
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And the old guys, the young guys that they go, but, Sir, they had
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more calories. I'm like, oh, yeah, that that
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fills you up. Remember guys droning?
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And I saw a guy that's kind of starting to walk off in the
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swamp. And I stopped him.
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And I said, hey, man, what are you doing?
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And he said, I want to get one of those pies.
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He's, you know, he's seen a pie floating on top of the water,
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you know? Yeah.
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Oh, absolutely. And I remember my my Ranger
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buddy Russ is so Larry Rugel. So we we started together, we
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recycled together in mountains and then we graduated together.
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Great, great guy. But we had made it through the
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first phase of mountains. So when you actually do Mount
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Yonah and then you go out, you do the first series of sticks
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like two or three days or four days where you basically just
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walk and walk and walk and walk. And then we came back and that
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night, the first night we got back to the barracks, probably
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2:00 in the morning, I wake up, I go to go take a leak and our
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bunk, he's, he's on the top, I'm on the bottom bunk.
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And our bunk is right next to where the entrance of the trees
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are. So there's, you know, the bright
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light coming out of there. And I'm wake up, get out of my
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bed, look, and there's Larry, swear to God, on a knee on his
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bed, doing this number like this.
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Now look at Larry. I'm like, Larry, what the fuck
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are you doing, man? He looks over to me and he's
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like, Chris, get the fucking patrol base.
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You're fucking in my head, count.
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I'm like, Larry, do you know where you are right now?
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And he looks around. No, we're in.
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I'm like, brother, you're we're in the barracks.
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Lay down. It's OK.
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Are you sure? Well, yeah, man, I got you.
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Don't worry if the R is come. I got you.
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Just lay down and go back to sleep.
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Brother, It's like, OK. Yeah, exactly.
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Anybody that's out there, was Ranger School the same length or
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it was longer or was it the same as it?
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It was longer, so OK. I think it was, it was 70 some
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days when I went because you had like each phase was a little, it
15:43
was a little bit shorter, but not enough to make up the
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distance because you still had to, We still had to get the
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dugway. No, the thing I did like about
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the idea of the desert phase and I'd be surprised if we were able
15:59
to even hurt, but the the idea of doing the live fire out
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there, yeah, you know that, you know, give and take.
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I guess with that, with the, the pros and cons of people, you
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know, wandering off. Hell, they got so bad in Florida
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for us they they literally made a snap link into each other when
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we're walking through the swamp. Yeah, we had a rope.
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Had a rope with knots on it. Same thing.
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Yeah, yeah. So you, you graduated Ranger
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School and you said you're an E4, right?
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And then did did Ranger battalion come pick you up?
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You just do report over there or they can't?
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How was it? Well.
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So I was in battalion. I went from 375.
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I was an RTO for the for my PO and then I got sent at Ranger
16:40
School. My first run stand was Joe
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Heckard. I still have pictures of him on
16:44
my phone. He was a big old African
16:47
American guy, two time Vietnam vet.
16:50
And he, he kind of walked a little pigeon toed inside, you
16:52
know, and he kind of, he kind of saw one when he walked, you
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know, And every time I'd see him, I'd say, hey, first time
16:57
I'm going to Ranger School and he'd say stop harassing me,
17:00
shithead. That's coming.
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Yeah. And so.
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What'd you think about the, I mean, what was the, you know,
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environment like when you stepped in or the battalion like
17:11
is it was it was the was I mean, because I know those guys, man,
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they're pretty prideful and they're pretty the standards of
17:18
standards high, high standard there, right.
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So how was it when you first stepped in Range Battalion?
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Yes, again, I had nothing to compare it to.
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So it's the only Army that I knew.
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I went to basic and AIT to airborne straight to 375 and and
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it was the only Army that I knew.
17:34
And for me, I I grew up in a pretty rough home.
17:37
My father was an over the road truck driver and alcoholic.
17:41
And you know, just like in today's standards, like it had
17:44
been terrible. I'd have been probably in foster
17:46
care, you know, so there were times when I, when I was first,
17:49
you know, couple months, I was in the Army.
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People were like, you know, this didn't seem to bother with you.
17:53
And I was like, you know, I feel like I'm at a family reunion.
17:55
We talking about it, you know, it didn't, it didn't.
17:59
And in the camaraderie and here I'll tell you this.
18:03
So everyone was coming in. They were coming in.
18:05
They would quit and then and they'd leave and they'd go to
18:08
Panama. One of my, one of my, one of the
18:11
biggest impacts that happened to me was it was like January 1985
18:17
and it's cold. You know how Fort Benning can
18:19
get in January. Fort Benning can get cold.
18:21
It's a wet cold. You know, there's this pre Gore
18:24
Tex days and our we were trying to get ready back then you had a
18:27
thing called an RTEP. And so we're trying to get it
18:29
for our RTEP to get qualified to be, you know, going to rotation.
18:33
And so we're in the field Monday through Thursday night every
18:37
week. Every week you come in Monday
18:39
morning, you DPT. We either jump or Rd.
18:41
March or Hilo into the field and you do ambush raid Recon, patrol
18:46
based activities, ambush raid Recon and you just do it over
18:49
and over and over. And, and so it's, it's a, it's a
18:53
regular week in January. It's been raining the day that
18:55
we got in soaking wet. It's, it's like Wednesday by
18:59
now. It's like Wednesday and I'm
19:00
you're just soaked to the bone. You have nothing that's dry.
19:04
And we're laying in a patrol base at like 3:00 in the
19:06
morning, pulling security and, and you can see your breath and
19:10
you're shivering uncontrollably. And I remember saying, and I
19:13
said, I've told this story. I tell the story of my
19:15
resiliency talk. And I told this story at West
19:18
Point. And I remember saying, I am, I'm
19:22
quitting. I'm leaving battalion when the
19:24
sun comes up. There was no.
19:25
Are you sure, Ranger? You know, it's like ringing a
19:27
bell. So I was like, I I'm done.
19:29
The sun comes up. I'm done because because
19:31
everyone at that time is going to Panama.
19:33
And all I could think about was I had a buddy named Randall and
19:36
he quit. He'd gone to Panama.
19:37
All I could think about was Randall is in a bed right now in
19:40
Panama, and it's by the ocean and it's warm and I'm freezing
19:43
my ass off getting mistreated. And so I laid there, you know,
19:47
and I'm like, no one cares about me.
19:50
I'm just another cog in the wheel, you know, And I'm like,
19:53
when that sun comes up, I'm done.
19:55
And so of course, you know, we're at 100% stand to the sun
19:58
comes up and and I'm all ready to tell my squad leader, hey,
20:03
I'm done with this crap, you know, And I hear this like sound
20:06
coming through the woods and it's an old Army Jeep and you
20:10
can hear this rattling. And I look out there and there's
20:13
my first song, Joe Heckard, and he's in an old Army Jeep and
20:17
it's packed full of old Army Mermite cans and it's got
20:23
coffee. And chicken noodle soup.
20:25
And we go totally admin for like 45 minutes and everyone got a
20:29
cup like this big of coffee and a cup that big of chicken noodle
20:33
soup that was pretty warm. And I remember standing in a
20:36
circle of my buddies and I said out loud, and 1st Sergeant cares
20:41
about us. And they're like, damn straight
20:43
he does. He cares about his Rangers.
20:45
And I thought, I bet the first son in Panama doesn't care about
20:48
his shoulders. I'm not going anywhere.
20:52
And that was a turning point in my life.
20:54
I mean, who knows where I would have ended up or been, you know?
20:56
And I, I, I wish I would have told Joe.
20:58
I saw Joe Heckard at the 50th anniversary of 6 RTB when I was
21:02
at Chaplin there 10 years ago, 15 years ago now, 1617, a long
21:08
time ago. I saw him before he passed away.
21:11
I wish I would have told him that.
21:13
I wish 'cause I I, to this day, I remember that.
21:16
I remember it like it was yesterday.
21:17
That was one of those defining moments for me in my Army career
21:20
where I almost made a decision that would have changed my
21:23
trajectory. Yeah, 'cause I, I, we tell a lot
21:27
of leaders that too. Like, you know, sometimes you
21:29
might not think that you're making an impact on one of these
21:32
young kids. Like it could be a simple
21:33
conversation, you know, in the field during some serious suck
21:37
fest, right? And like, you know, as like as
21:39
ACSM might go down and you know, sit down next to a guy and just
21:42
have a good conversation with him and stuff like that, that
21:45
little things like that make a difference, man.
21:47
People just don't realize it. There, you can't.
21:50
I mean, they old laddies, we say no one knows how much you know
21:52
and how much you care. I will tell you that both good
21:56
and bad. Like we all remember a time when
21:59
we got an ass chewing from someone and we remember that
22:02
moment. And if we found that person that
22:04
did it and we and we and we told them about it, they probably
22:06
don't remember because it didn't impact them, right?
22:11
But we remember the opposite of that is also true, which is when
22:15
someone is having a crappy day and you just show some kindness.
22:20
They may not ever remember what you said, but they'll remember
22:23
what you did. And that's to me, that's the
22:27
difference in leadership. My son did five.
22:29
He went to West Point. He went and graduated West
22:31
Point, went straight to Ranger School.
22:33
My son graduated Ranger School 35 years to the day that I
22:36
graduated. He got my original tab and went
22:41
to the 82nd and and he had really, he had, he had
22:46
unsatisfactory leadership from the get go.
22:48
His company commander was was toxic.
22:50
He's out of the Army now. His battalion commander was a,
22:54
you know, thought that he was thought that he was the next,
22:57
you know, patent or something, I don't know.
23:01
He did five years. My son was like after about he
23:04
was there about 15 months and he said I was in third group at the
23:06
time. And he was like, hey, man, like
23:09
I'm doing, I'm 5 and 4, I'm out. And I was like, oh, man, you got
23:13
to command a, you know, you got to go command a company.
23:15
And he's like, no, man. He was like, I've seen enough in
23:17
the Army to know that I'm not, I'm not giving the best years of
23:21
my life to this. He said it's a it's a crapshoot.
23:24
And that's too bad, right? And that's just one example
23:28
because there's a ton of other guys that go there and they have
23:30
great leaders and they stay in and, you know, they do great
23:34
things. I mean, we're here, we are,
23:35
right? I'm having like, I'm, I'm, I'm
23:38
having these moments or I have these moments where I'm by
23:40
myself where I'm like, God, what am I going to do?
23:44
Yeah. You know.
23:46
The same way, Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty
23:50
cool that your son's got and he's got like a guy you can call
23:53
like especially high caliber guy like you Charlie to give him
23:57
advice and stuff. Like that it's.
23:59
Kind of like a cheat code. He lived in our house because he
24:03
went to West. My daughter used my GI Bill to
24:05
get her bachelor's, a master. So my son went to West Point and
24:08
then and I was at Bragg at the time when he got there 82nd and
24:11
I said, hey, you're going to live with us for a year.
24:13
He was like, I am a grown ass man.
24:15
And I said no, no, listen to me. We didn't pay for your college.
24:18
You're going to live with us and then you're going to invest your
24:20
Bah for a year. That's a little way that we can
24:23
help pay you back. And you don't got to pay, you
24:25
don't got to buy groceries and he didn't, you don't got to do
24:28
anything, right. I was like, hey, the
24:29
refrigerator swings both ways, bro.
24:32
And he did that, but I would sit sometimes I could sit and
24:35
overhear conversations that his command team would call him
24:39
with, you know, right in the front end.
24:41
And I didn't get involved. You know, I, I'm not a
24:44
helicopter parent. I'm not a lawn mower parent.
24:46
Mow down your kids stuff. You know, that's not my I, I
24:50
wasn't going to do that. I figured it out.
24:52
He's got to figure it out How the dad was talking to a buddy
24:54
of mine. He's a command star major in the
24:56
Army or he's a Sergeant major in the Army.
24:58
And I won't give too many details.
24:59
I don't even want to know who it is because if you know me, you
25:01
might know who you put it together.
25:03
But his daughter was in basic training and he had typed up
25:06
this letter and he was going to send it off to the command team
25:09
in reference to how he felt like the drill sermon was being
25:11
unprofessional. And I said, dude, you can't do
25:13
that. You've got to delete that.
25:15
You've got to write your daughter.
25:16
I said, has he been, has he been, you know, has he done
25:19
something illegal and moral and ethical?
25:20
Has he put his hands on her? Has he, you know, has there been
25:22
any sexual harassment or anything?
25:24
He goes, no, no, I just think he's been unprofessional.
25:25
I said you think that he's the first unprofessional or the only
25:29
unprofessional leader she's ever going to have.
25:32
She's just the first one. You better figure it out.
25:35
Yeah. I I can relate Charlie, I can
25:37
relate Charlie, because my kids are Marine, right.
25:39
So we, we've been through some ups and downs too, man and I'm
25:44
just like I, I want to like reach you the phone a bit, grab
25:47
a start major by the throat like are you doing?
25:49
But I can't like you said, I can't do that.
25:51
Like he's got to learn, he's got to, he's got to figure this out
25:53
on his own man. But it it's definitely hard.
25:57
You know, it's like especially when, and I've, I've had some,
26:00
I've been around some really high caliber people leaders in
26:03
my career. So it's like when I hear that, I
26:06
get kind of frustrated with it. So that's good to tell him you
26:10
just got to figure it out, man, got to figure it out.
26:12
So. Charlie, the, the, the part that
26:17
comes back to me right, is actually about your son, right?
26:21
So had a similar trajectory, we'll say with, with my initial
26:27
career in that. And I mentioned this to some
26:31
people here because you know, I'm, I'm, I'm about a year out
26:34
from retirement. So I'm starting to do a lot of
26:37
self reflecting. And then, you know, talking with
26:39
Jerry on the podcast and stuff, you start to think about the old
26:42
times and the, the thing that pops into my mind is I, I guess
26:48
I'm sadistic because I was that guy that you, I can't remember.
26:55
And I'm, I, I really don't want to say ranks or positions or
26:59
anything like that. We'll just say my first initial
27:03
leaders, you know, and you can intuit, however long or short
27:07
that is, were the definition of either toxic or incompetent.
27:13
And looking back, it's, it was one of those where you may be a,
27:17
a more sane man or a different person would have been like your
27:22
son and said, you know what, fuck that.
27:26
I don't why, why am I putting up with this?
27:28
I mean, being cursed at, right? And it's, yeah, I, I didn't grow
27:33
up in a toxic family or anything like that, thank God.
27:38
But it was, you know, I, I being cursed at was not a new thing
27:41
for me, but being called a piece of shit in public as an officer,
27:47
that was. Yeah.
27:49
And instead now granted I was, thank God, I will say Lieutenant
27:55
General retired Jones, Omar Jones, former he retired out of
28:00
income as income commander was a mentor of mine at that point and
28:05
he talked me off the ledge because I was about his.
28:08
Son His son is my son's classmate and and Ranger School
28:11
classmate Ben Jones. Oh no shit.
28:14
OK, it's the world. But yeah, Lieutenant General
28:19
Jones talked me off the ledge because I was about to go toe to
28:21
toe with that senior officer. And I told him I was like, Sir,
28:25
if he expects me to sign counseling for this and I did
28:30
absolutely nothing wrong and he called me a piece of shit and
28:33
all this other stuff in front of public and God and country, then
28:37
I am, I'm, I'm, I'm done. I don't care about my career.
28:40
I I I just want satisfaction kicking his ass.
28:43
Yeah, Chris. Yeah, just hold on, just just
28:47
give me a minute. Let me let me see if I can do
28:49
some stuff. OK.
28:50
Sure. But aside from him, you know,
28:55
Yeah, I, I, I feel your son. I do.
28:57
But my question, I guess is, is while your path may have been
29:03
slightly different, still kind of a similar in the sense of
29:08
like you, you were getting it pretty good there in in regiment
29:14
and and kind of turning the other cheek and grinning and
29:17
saying, yeah, this kind of like family reunion, your words, that
29:22
grit, right? That that stick to itiveness.
29:25
And yeah, I don't mean to say that derogatorily to your son,
29:28
but but what made you say you know what?
29:32
Besides, I mean, you had that great first art.
29:34
So you know what? I'm going to fucking do this.
29:38
Well, I think for me also, Chris, is that joining the Army
29:43
was also a way out for me. I looked at my family life.
29:47
I looked at, I looked at what, what my opportunities were,
29:51
where I was at. And I didn't want that.
29:53
I didn't want to be, I didn't want to become my dad and God
29:56
rest his soul, but I didn't want, I didn't want to become my
29:58
dad. I want to become, I didn't want
30:00
to become what was what was there.
30:02
I want, I wanted to do something.
30:06
I mean, I wanted to be AI want to be a soldier and and I didn't
30:11
have a safety net. There was no there was no Plan B
30:15
for me. Had I had a plan BI might have,
30:17
you know, done 3 and got out 2. And so I never felt like I had a
30:22
a Plan B. When I graduated Ranger School,
30:24
I had nobody there. I didn't I didn't receive a
30:27
single piece of mail in Ranger School.
30:28
I'm not saying this Boo hooing, but I didn't get any letters in
30:31
Ranger School. Remember one, at one point we
30:32
had tax that went with us all the way through and they would
30:34
pass out the mail. And I remember this tax and
30:39
Sergeant Lopez and I remember him saying to me, Hey, Shields,
30:41
you haven't gotten a single letter.
30:43
I said, no one knows that I'm here.
30:45
He's like, you ain't got any family.
30:46
And I said, I mean, I not really.
30:49
And, and I went on graduation day.
30:53
I, I did, I, I wasn't hurt by it.
30:54
I wasn't like, oh, I got no one that cares.
30:56
I didn't, I wouldn't hurt, but it just, it was just normal for
30:59
me. And so on graduation day, you
31:02
know, on November 13th, 1985, we were out in Todfield and that,
31:06
you know, they jumped the Ranger tabs in and all the wives and
31:08
girlfriends and parents came out and they're penning tabs on.
31:11
And I'm standing there. I got my Ranger tab in my hand.
31:13
I'm just kind of standing there. I mean, it didn't bother me any.
31:17
My squad leader, my first Sergeant walked up.
31:18
My first Sergeant said, who's pinning your tab on you?
31:21
Shit. And I said, I guess you are
31:24
first Sergeant. And he pinned my Ranger tab on
31:26
me. And then he said to me, he said,
31:28
you going to be like all these other candy asses and take some
31:30
time off or you going to go, you going to go, you going to jump
31:32
into the field with us on Monday?
31:34
And I said, I got nowhere else to go first son and my squad ***
31:37
said, if you do this, he said, we'll make, he said you'll be at
31:41
E5 in, in 90 days. And so listen, one MRI day,
31:46
Ranger School still messes up my food.
31:48
I, I still can't go anywhere without food.
31:49
I jumped today. I was airborne commander today
31:51
for, for, for our jump today. I had a cooler, full food and
31:55
water and I give most of it away at the end, but I always save a
31:59
little back because you don't know what's going to go, you
32:01
know. And so I went to, we jumped into
32:04
the field that following Monday and I had an ammo can in my
32:07
rucksack. I was an RTO, but I don't have
32:09
to be the RTO anymore because now I got a Ranger tab.
32:11
I had a Ranger tab in the IV instead of jump wings.
32:13
I was APFC and we stopped and I sitting in a patrol base and I
32:18
was in a rucksack flop and I reached inside my brook and I
32:21
pulled that ammo can out and I sit in front of me and open it
32:24
up. And I had and I had three little
32:26
personal pan pizzas and sleeves of Oreo cookies and I'm eating
32:32
some pizza and I'm eating the cookies.
32:34
And there were some kids that have graduated RIP since I was
32:37
gone that were there and they're pulling security.
32:39
One of them said to my squad leader, he said, hey, why does
32:42
that guy get to sit in a rucksack, flop and eat in the
32:45
patrol base? And my spotted her said, 'cause
32:48
he's got a Mother F and Ranger tab, that's why.
32:52
And listen, I was sitting there and I thought to myself, man, I
32:55
have a ride. Yeah.
32:58
That's really graduating in the field the next Monday.
33:01
That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know,
33:04
I, I didn't, I had no plan. BI didn't have anything else to
33:08
fall back on and coming back to my son, he when he went to West
33:13
Point, we tried to get him to do kinesiology because he's always
33:16
been an interest in medicine and he he starts Goucher the post
33:22
back of auric Med school link program.
33:24
He starts at next Wednesday. We moved him up here to
33:27
Townsend, Maryland two weeks ago and you know, he's on his path
33:31
to being an ER doctor. I said you want to do it in the
33:33
Army and he was like, no. Yeah.
33:36
Yeah, I'm up in Maryland. Hey, Charlie, can you, can you
33:40
tell the people out there like traditionally, how does a, how
33:44
long does a young like E4 and below stay in regiment before
33:47
they have to like get their Ranger tab?
33:49
Do they like, is there a time frame?
33:51
Do you have like a backstop for like hey, I got to get a Ranger
33:54
tab before this or I'm going to the 82nd?
33:58
Well, so I, I haven't been in, I mean, it's always, I'm sure it's
34:02
always changing. I, I don't, I'll tell you that
34:05
if you're an 11B, you're not going to go beyond E4 without a
34:09
tab. I mean, unless it's some unique,
34:13
I mean, maybe if you get wounded in combat or something and
34:16
they're keeping you around. You're not going to go beyond E4
34:18
if you without a tab. If you are support and you have
34:22
a specialty of some type, you might get to I, I had a guy that
34:26
I was in long range Recon with back in the 80s and his son was
34:32
AI want to say he was some type of specialty Signal.
34:36
It wasn't signal. It was something else, some
34:39
crypto or something. Anyway, but he went to first
34:41
range battalion, but he didn't want to go to Ranger School.
34:43
And so, but he was really good and he had a really unique
34:46
specialty. And they wouldn't promote him to
34:48
E5 because he didn't have A tag. So he was going to reenlist to
34:51
go to, to soar. And they said, Hey, what would
34:54
it take to keep you? And he said, I want to, I want
34:56
to get promoted. And so they promoted him and
34:58
kept him. So he did his entire enlistment
35:00
in 175 without a tab. But that's unusual.
35:03
It's unusual. You're, you're treated, I mean,
35:06
you're treated like a second class citizen until you put a
35:08
tab over your scroll. The regiment guys hate on the
35:11
guys that call themselves Rangers that don't have scrolls.
35:14
You went to Ranger School. The the scroll is a way of life.
35:16
The tab is a school. But let me be let's be honest,
35:20
you're not. You're not a full-fledged voting
35:22
member unless you have a tab sitting above your scroll.
35:25
Right, Yeah, there's always, always that hey man, I'm, I'm a
35:29
Ranger qualified, but I'm not an airborne Ranger, right?
35:32
I guess that. That's like, I always hear that
35:34
so. Yeah, it's like I got to go.
35:39
I, I'll tell you, man, I, I, I've never been a Ranger
35:41
regiment, but you know, my impression of those guys.
35:44
I mean, you know, served work with them a little bit and
35:46
overseas and stuff. And they've, they've always
35:48
been, no, just professional like all the special Forces guys.
35:52
I, I give props to all the Delta and Seals and all those guys.
35:57
But man, boy, Ranger Regiments. It's a lethal organization with
36:00
just nothing. Professionals, man.
36:02
Listen dude, if if the if the army were all animals.
36:06
Ranger regiments, just all Belgium mountain walls, all they
36:09
are. They're just meat missiles man.
36:12
I tell you, they live and they shoot.
36:14
I tell you, Charlie, I sat in AI, sat in two, two or three,
36:17
these promotion boards at HRC and you know, not just that they
36:22
were just badasses, but they were all also administratively
36:25
badass too. Because, you know, we were
36:27
reading through their NCOERS and stuff, man.
36:29
And I would tell you that my last board, I, they probably had
36:32
the best NCO yards I've ever seen across the Army, right?
36:36
Just because you know how they, you know, all the stuff that
36:38
they knew how to ride them. Their NC OS took time to, you
36:41
can tell when people are looking at them and you can tell people
36:44
are like, leaders are taking, you know, opportunity to like
36:47
check on their guys. And I was like, man, Ranger
36:50
Regiment's got it, got it going on, man.
36:52
They're pretty good at this stuff.
36:53
Not just, you know. But they're supposed to leave
36:55
Abrams charter, which is what starter regiment was to to try
36:59
to fix the post Vietnam 1970 shit show the Army was in.
37:03
And it was supposed to be. You come there, you get this
37:06
specialized training, this emphasis on physical fitness,
37:09
this professionalism, this skill set.
37:12
You go out in the Army and like a like, like a, you know, like a
37:15
plug of grass, you make this field healthy and then you come
37:19
back and get some more and then you go back out and it kind of
37:22
became, you know, an incestuous organization that you could stay
37:28
there for 20 years. I mean I know guys that went
37:30
from private to E9 and never left.
37:33
But it's also, I think nowadays you have to challenge, you have
37:35
to. I think there's only so many,
37:37
there's so many, so many first sergeants.
37:38
There's only so many sergeants like you have.
37:40
Remember Mike Elliott? Yeah.
37:42
Yeah, MM went from E1 to E8 and 375, but he couldn't get a
37:45
company, so he came in 10th Mountain Division.
37:47
Yeah, you got to be pretty bad ass though, to stay in Ranger
37:49
Battalion for a while. Yeah, Yeah.
37:52
How long? So how long were you in Ranger
37:54
Battalion for when you first? I was only, I was only there for
37:57
like 2 1/2 years and and then I re enlisted to go to the Army,
38:01
stood up the brand new post Vietnam long range surveillance
38:06
reconnaissance right Lurse. And so I went to ECHO 51st as a
38:10
plank holder for it. And then I was in the first
38:13
Arslit class in 1986. And then I was a lurse team
38:18
leader for three years. And then that's where I met my
38:20
wife. I will tell you, of all the jobs
38:23
I've had in the Army, that's the best job I ever had.
38:26
Yeah, I kind of, I kind of wish they'd bring those back like,
38:30
you know, like I think, I think they're, I think they're added
38:32
value, man. Five men lurse team doing
38:35
missions in East Germany when the wall was still up.
38:38
Five enlisted dudes. E 6 is the highest ranking guy.
38:42
No officers, no voice comes. Everything was done through
38:46
through encryption. 22 combo windows every 24 hours.
38:51
I mean, I think how risk averse the Army today we're jumping
38:55
today we're jumping. And so today that we're jumping
38:57
Marine, I wore this for you star mater Marine Corps microphone.
39:01
So today we're jumping C130 Marine at Marine Corps crew out
39:06
of cherry point. I love jumping with the Marines.
39:07
They're just, they're always, I mean, I, I'll jump anything
39:10
anyway, but those guys are all awesome.
39:12
Great. So we're, we're going through
39:14
our JM rehearsals and everything.
39:15
And one of my guys was like, Hey, we, we need to get some
39:17
duct tape and put an arrow on the ramp.
39:20
And I said, we're not putting an arrow on on the ramp.
39:22
We need to make sure they know where to go.
39:23
And I was like, look here you have become so mother fricking
39:26
risk averse. That's what rehearsals are for.
39:29
And then guess what they're going to do with the first guy
39:32
does who's a jump master. We're not putting tape on the
39:35
ramp of the C 1:30 today. We're going to be just fine.
39:39
I mean, we've gotten to the point where we we have no
39:41
tolerance for mistakes or no tolerance for for risk.
39:46
And you know, I, I mean, I, I don't see, I don't want us to be
39:51
negligent. I don't think we should be like
39:54
reckless. But at the same time tack on,
39:57
man, you know, when I think about an American soldier, I
40:01
want to, I want to think about some, I want to think about
40:03
someone who's, who's tough and not afraid to do, to do hard
40:09
things. My son-in-law is a was a 64
40:11
pilot. Now he's an AI officer and he
40:13
was just here this weekend. He and my daughter just went on
40:15
vacation and his brother just graduated.
40:18
From law school and so he was here visiting as well.
40:21
And my son-in-law is a first generation anything military.
40:24
He was a classmate with my son. He's a big kid.
40:26
He's published, he's like 6-3 and like he's freaking huge.
40:31
His brother-in-law was here and he's and he asked a question
40:33
about his you know, about soldiers and are also, you know,
40:37
some soldiers. They all think that they're all
40:39
like, you know, tough or whatever.
40:41
And I said, well, I said, let me ask you something.
40:43
I said you ever you ever been punched in the face?
40:46
And he said, no, he's 30 years old.
40:48
You know, he's about 30. I said you've never been.
40:50
You've never been punched in the face once, right?
40:52
He said no, I said every soldier had been punched in the face and
40:56
punched someone else in the face.
40:57
We do it for training, I said. So you're right, they're not all
41:01
John Wick, but most of them will whip your ass.
41:04
Yeah, it it, it affects the decision making process too,
41:07
man. Commanders make bad decisions
41:09
off that stuff. Like, come on, man.
41:11
Got to be you got to, got to take a little risk, you know?
41:14
So, yeah, we're, we're in a profession of honors, man.
41:17
It's not. It's not all bubble wrap and
41:20
band aids, you know. Yeah, yeah, I like it.
41:24
I like it. I like taking, you know, no, I
41:26
mean, I've done some, I've taken some, you know, I'm just a chap
41:29
now. But but I'm a, you know, I'm,
41:31
I've been airborne commander a bunch here.
41:33
And I mean, I there was been once or twice where I've been
41:35
like, God, I hope that doesn't go bad because if it does, I can
41:39
hear my GOMAR being read right now.
41:41
Disregard decades of experience. What were you thinking of?
41:46
Yeah. And then when it's done, I was
41:48
like, all right, I'm not doing that again.
41:50
Yeah, yeah, Lurses, Lurses awesome man.
41:54
Like I, I don't know, like I said, I wish they bring it back
41:56
though, so. We had the.
41:58
School. Where were you at where I might
42:00
have missed it? Where'd you say you were at?
42:02
When? At LERS or.
42:04
Echo, 51st Echo Company, 51st Lers in, in, in started off in
42:08
Wiesbaden, Germany as part of 5th core.
42:11
She had Echo and Foxtrot were in Europe.
42:13
So Echo was fifth core and Foxtrot was 7th core.
42:17
And so 2 core assets. And, and I'm telling you my
42:20
listen that that group of weirdos is such, there's such a
42:24
camaraderie there. They get together every year in
42:27
June in Branson, MO and anyone that's ever served in lurse in
42:31
any way, shape or form Vietnam Forward.
42:34
They all come together at these two hotels in Branson, MO for a
42:37
weekend and I go about every. I've gone like like 3 years
42:41
apart. I was there last year and it's
42:44
just a brotherhood and camaraderie of just a bunch of
42:47
old. So what have you did?
42:48
Three years or 33 years doesn't matter.
42:52
Yeah. Did you guys have you had
42:54
scrolls, right? Did you guys wear scrolls or was
42:56
that was like no. We wore the we were we were a we
43:01
were a nurse company assigned to 165th MI because Lurse is a is
43:05
an intelligence, right. So we we wore the 165 MI patch.
43:09
Yeah yeah. Now they do scrolls.
43:11
Everybody makes some kind of scroll now, but.
43:13
We yeah, no, I I just thinking I I forgot about the MI patch
43:16
'cause I remember I, I was somebody my was thinking of some
43:18
old scroll for lurse or something.
43:20
But did you, did you guys have to go through a selection for
43:23
that or did you just how was, how were you selected to go to
43:26
that? We mostly got RIP failures and
43:30
RFS, you know, they were all a bunch of, you know, they were
43:33
all a bunch of drunks and bar fighters that got thrown out of
43:35
something else, you know, and they were a band of misfits and.
43:40
But man, they were good kids. I'm friends with my whole team
43:43
still. I still.
43:44
Yeah. I mean, we.
43:46
Yeah, the company commander, our company commander's name was
43:50
Steve Powell, and he is like the daddy, the granddaddy of the
43:54
association. He's a former Green Beret also.
43:57
And I mean, we, we're all friends, we all talk, we all
44:00
share, you know, life stuff with each other, you know?
44:03
And yeah, but it was, it's just a great time.
44:08
Was it all static line or did you guys do anything else before
44:11
that or? No, it was static line.
44:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
44:17
Did you miss your wife there? I did.
44:19
She was a medic. She was on this, if you can
44:22
believe this, and this is God's smiling Providence, right?
44:24
We all if we're, if we're blessed by the Lord, we marry
44:28
up, right. My wife was on a 2 year
44:30
enlistment and and got sent to Germany.
44:35
Like that's fraud, waste of abuse, right?
44:37
Two year enlistment, she had just gotten to the organization.
44:40
I had just gotten hurt training with the Danish Jaegers.
44:43
I got in a frostbite. I was up in Denmark training
44:45
with the Jaegers, so I had to go back to Germany to rehab.
44:49
And she was in the mess hall. She was a private.
44:51
I was an NCO, and I saw her and she didn't.
44:54
I was in civilian clothes. And I thought, man, that girl is
44:57
so pretty, I'm going to ask her out.
45:00
So she agreed to go out with me. And then she found out later
45:02
that I was a Sergeant. She tried to break it off.
45:04
And I was like, hey, we're not in the same food chain.
45:06
It's OK. Yeah.
45:10
Were you like a crazy guy outside of work or were you?
45:13
Kind of. Pretty mellow dude.
45:15
Or like were. You No, I was not mellow.
45:18
I was, I was a 21 year old staff Sergeant who thought that I
45:22
could whip anybody so. Yeah.
45:26
Yeah, not mellow. Especially being you're in
45:28
Germany, right? So yeah, we're kind of crazy.
45:33
That's right. Yeah, that's awesome.
45:36
So you did LERS time, right? Was that the rest of your
45:40
enlistment or did you? Nope, I went to be a drill
45:43
Sergeant of all things. I was AI, was an infantry drill
45:47
Sergeant for military police and about 10 of the MPs that were
45:54
also drill sergeants with me had arrested me at one point or
45:57
another in my career. Well, that's the question
46:00
beforehand. Yeah, you got you can back then.
46:04
It just was, I mean, the MPs, they all, every MP station had
46:07
its own jail and they just arrested you and then turn you
46:09
over to your chain of command. And hell, my first Sergeant half
46:12
the time was in the cell right next to me.
46:13
And the company commander had to come get both of us for, for,
46:17
for fighting usually. And so I was a drill Sergeant at
46:21
Fort McLellan, Alabama, for MPs for two years.
46:23
That's where I came to faith in Christ, actually, because it was
46:26
Alabama. And my wife and I got invited to
46:28
church and heard the gospel and at the end of my enlistment, I
46:33
couldn't decide whether I wanted to re enlist to try to go back
46:36
to, I want to go to, I always want to be a platoon Sergeant in
46:38
first range of time. And so I thought I'm going to go
46:41
back to 175. And I just sensed that God was
46:44
leading me to do something different.
46:46
So I got out. My wife had finished college.
46:48
So I got out and and I went to school and then I did, I did 12
46:53
years of school. I did a bachelor's and master's
46:54
and a doctorate degree, all in theology and was pastoring a
46:59
church and teaching and my best friend in life.
47:02
I've known him longer than my wife.
47:04
We we talk every single day with with Harold Hans Harold retired
47:09
as the CSM 175. They call him Triple H and they,
47:14
they had just come back from the Jessica Lynch rescue when he was
47:19
the CSM there. And he's, he, he's started like,
47:23
hey, man, you need to come back in the Army as a chaplain.
47:26
And a few years later, I met the chief of chaplains named Doug
47:31
Carver and had a conversation with him.
47:33
And, and 90 days after that, I was in the Army as a chaplain.
47:38
And I've had the best rides. I mean, I've had the best
47:42
assignments. Can I, can I go back to like the
47:44
drill Sergeant thing Charlie did?
47:46
Did you have a hard time transitioning into that kind of
47:49
world like because you were in Lurse and you were in Ranger
47:52
Regiment, Now you're like in in drill Sergeant land with, you
47:57
know, softs go loaded. I don't know, man, Like it's a
47:59
different world. Did you have a hard time with
48:01
that or? Well, all right, so I'll tell
48:04
you how hard time I had with that.
48:06
So let's go back to my first Sergeant, Joe Hecker in Vietnam.
48:10
I got in trouble on the trail. I got in, I got in pretty big
48:15
trouble and I got command referred to psych.
48:19
And the key thing when you're on the trail then was that if if
48:22
you got fired before your two years were up, they took, they
48:25
call it taking your hat from you and your pumpkin and no one
48:29
wants that's disgrace, right? Even if you don't get an article
48:32
15, it's still in disgrace because you didn't finish your
48:34
tour. And so I was pretty rough.
48:37
This is all before I came to faith in Christ, but I was, I
48:40
was pretty rough and my tank commander was like there's
48:44
something wrong with you. You got to go talk to you got to
48:48
go talk to psych and if they don't clear you, you're done.
48:51
And so I so I went, I'm sitting in this waiting room and there
48:53
was 2 psychiatrists or psychologists.
48:55
There was an army one and a civilian 1.
48:57
The army 1 was a captain, the civilians and civilian clothes.
49:00
And he walked back and forth by me like 3 or 4 times.
49:03
There was only like 3 people on all of Fort McClellan AL had a
49:06
Ranger tabs and he stopped and he said to me, hey Ranger, what
49:11
are you doing here? And I handed him this piece of
49:14
paper for my battalion commander, and he said, you've
49:17
been in the range for time. I said, yes, Sir.
49:19
He said, where at? I said third range for time.
49:21
He said, who's your first Sergeant?
49:23
I said Joe Heckard. He said me and Joe Heckard
49:26
killed a lot of gooks in Vietnam.
49:29
Jeez. He says, come in my office.
49:33
I'm like, OK, So I go and I sit down there and he's like, he,
49:38
he, he. All we want to know about was
49:40
what was Joe doing? How is he doing?
49:42
And they've been in Vietnam together in the 101st.
49:46
And then he got out and went to school and became a
49:47
psychologist. And so he said, all right, tell
49:50
me why you're here. So I told him, and he started
49:52
laughing. And he wrote on there this.
49:54
He said, you know, you, you've got a meat eater amongst grass
49:57
eaters. Put this man back to work, you
49:59
know, And he sent it back. And my battalion commander was
50:01
certain that he was going to take my hat from me that day.
50:04
So I walked in there and I had a big smile on my face.
50:07
You know, I got all right. Here you go.
50:08
Here you go, Sir. And he read it, and he squatted
50:11
it up and he goes go back to work.
50:12
And he threw it away. Yeah, so I had, I had some
50:16
trouble, but I I dialed it back at that point because I was
50:18
like, oh, I dodged a bullet here.
50:20
So yeah, oh man. When, when were you in McClellan
50:24
again? 1990 to 1992.
50:28
OK. Yeah, that's where I went to
50:30
basic training a little bit after that 96.
50:33
Oh yeah, you were. An MP?
50:35
Oh, you were an MP? Yeah, he was an MP, enlisted.
50:37
He was enlisted guy too. 797 Did they still have 797 when you
50:42
were there? Seiko 797 Drill Sarg Yeah, there
50:46
you. Go small world.
50:49
Man, I'm I'm honored I have two prior enlisted officers on here.
50:52
Pretty cool. Yeah, but somehow we messed up.
50:56
You know, I tell guys all the time.
50:58
People tell me and they say, hey, my son or my daughter wants
51:00
to join the Army. And I always say, what do they
51:02
want to get out of the Army? You know, they want a
51:04
professional with this. I tell them to go to, you know,
51:06
go to school, go to ROTC, go to the Academy, you know, if they,
51:10
you know, my son just wants to kick.
51:11
He wants to kick into us. Like dude, enlist.
51:16
Enlist, you know? Yeah, I don't know.
51:20
So you went good. So you went to join the
51:26
chaplain. You went, how long was the
51:27
schooling for that like did you? How does that work for?
51:31
16 weeks so the so to be a chaplain in the Army, you have
51:34
to have a bachelor's and a master's, a master of divinity
51:36
where its equivalent and then you have to pass everything
51:39
else, anybody else that passed to get in the Army physical
51:41
wise. And you can't come in, you know
51:42
if you got diabetes or something.
51:45
And so you go to, you go to your basic course that they call it
51:47
Chebollic chaplain's officer's basic major's course at Fort
51:51
Jackson, SC, 16 weeks. And so you go to you go there
51:56
for 16 weeks and then you get your first assignment.
51:58
And by God's grace, again, my first assignment was to use a
52:02
sock in Fort Bragg. I could not believe it.
52:04
I told him when I came in, I said, hey, I said I want to come
52:06
in the Army. I said, but I want to, I want
52:08
to, I want a static line in my hand.
52:11
I don't care where I go. I just want to be a paratrooper
52:13
again. I was 42 years old, 2917 year
52:17
break in service. I'm like all I want, I just, I
52:20
just said I just want to be a paratrooper.
52:21
What I did not know was it is not all that easy to get
52:23
chaplains to jump out of airplanes.
52:25
Yeah. Right.
52:27
So they were like no problem. And so I, I come in, I go to
52:31
basic, I go to my basic course. I go to, I go, I graduate in
52:36
April of 2009. I get to Fort, I get to Fort
52:38
Bragg. I'm in Processing.
52:40
My Aaron CEO's name was serving force past Morrow.
52:44
And he says we've got an airborne Ranger chaplain.
52:46
He said, Sir, do you want to jump out of airplanes?
52:49
I said, heck yeah, dude. He said I'm in processing day
52:53
one. He says you want to jump today.
52:57
And I was like, you know, my pride.
52:59
My pride was like, sure, why not?
53:01
I didn't think for one second. And I said I ain't been to CIF
53:05
yet. He's like, I got a helmet for
53:06
you. Yeah.
53:07
Come on, let's go. We didn't do no, we didn't do no
53:10
orders. I didn't go to bar.
53:13
We drive out to Saint Mary's least drop zone and I'm thinking
53:16
to myself, God, I hope it's a good idea.
53:18
Last time I jumped was best Ranger in 1989 before I went to
53:21
be a drill Sergeant. Yeah.
53:23
So I jumped. I had not jumped and 20 years.
53:28
So we get to Saint Mayor and we're jumping the SF 10A, which
53:31
is the, which is the the MC6 parachute in the T10 harness,
53:35
you know, but I ain't jumped in 20 years.
53:38
So I'm, I'm watching everyone rig up.
53:41
I'm like, Oh my God, what goes where?
53:43
Again? I'm like, I should go back to
53:45
airborne school. And so I get rigged up.
53:47
I watch everyone. I get my stuff on and I said
53:50
hey, who's who, Just graduated from jump matching school.
53:52
I was like, I wanted someone who was fresh.
53:54
You. Know some cat that was like I
53:56
did, Sir. I said, come J and Pi me give a
53:59
chap a JPI. Yeah, So J and Pi me, you know,
54:03
this Costa 212 comes in and I said, what is that?
54:06
They're like, Sir, you never jumped at Costa.
54:07
I said jump one. I've never even seen one.
54:10
Oh, you're going to love it. No one told me anything about no
54:13
handles, no toggles. You know, I, we go up and I jump
54:18
out and oh, parachute opens up. And how I got it.
54:20
I, I got a good parachute. Well, the MC6 parachutes got an
54:23
11, not forward drift and you got to turn into the wind to
54:27
slow it down. I'm just riding like I'm, I'm
54:31
just like, I'm going by people like why aren't they moving?
54:34
You know, they're all facing into the wind and I'm just
54:36
Hawking across the drop zone. I see the ground coming in and
54:39
I'm like, Oh my God, I'm running with the wind.
54:42
I'm probably doing like 20 miles an hour.
54:44
I'm like, I cannot believe how fast the ground is moving.
54:48
I don't remember the ground moving this fast.
54:50
Everything in regiment, you know, it was night time.
54:52
Anyway, T10, I hit the ground. I hit feet head.
54:57
I didn't even hit my ass, just feet head.
55:01
I pack everything up. I'm laying there.
55:03
I got a brand new set of jump master glasses on.
55:06
They're up there. I thought I lost them.
55:08
They're on the back of my head. That's how hard I hit.
55:11
I rotated my glasses under my helmet.
55:13
Jeez. So, so I come in, I, you know,
55:16
and they're like, hey, how was it?
55:17
How was it? And you don't want to go, oh, it
55:19
was terrible, you know, and you're a brand new chaplain, you
55:22
know, he got, I was like, oh, it was awesome.
55:24
It was everything, you know, I've been missing this.
55:27
I get home that night and I get ready to go to bed.
55:29
I have to hold my ears to lay down the pillow.
55:32
I got whiplash so bad, like I'm having trouble getting my head
55:35
up. My wife said what are you going
55:37
to tell him at work tomorrow? I said, man, I don't know.
55:39
I said I'm just going to kind of walk around I guess all day
55:41
because I couldn't hold. My head up.
55:45
Yeah. I wonder, I wonder what the
55:47
percentage or range of qualified chaplains are.
55:49
Because I I've been in the Army for 30 years and I think I've
55:51
probably seen 3. It's not a all yourself, yeah,
55:55
it's most of us are prior service.
55:58
Yeah, they're on that note. Buddy of mine told me to tell
56:02
you said hello, Rick Winchester. Oh yeah.
56:07
Awesome. Yeah.
56:09
Chapman Winchester. That's awesome.
56:11
He was he was my battle buddy in Ile.
56:14
OK. All right.
56:15
That's awesome. What year was that?
56:18
Golly, what 2011? OK.
56:26
Yeah, that's awesome. He helped me.
56:29
He helped me a lot. You talk about God's grace kind
56:33
of shining on you every now and then.
56:35
Yeah. Yeah, I was.
56:38
I was in a bad spot in a bad way when I was there.
56:41
And yeah, he helped me out a lot.
56:43
He told me to tell you. He said hello.
56:45
Well, that's awesome. That's great.
56:47
I tell you what, I went to IOEI, didn't help anybody.
56:50
They all helped me. I.
56:52
Was. Like, oh what?
56:54
I couldn't spell him DMP. What are you talking about, you
56:57
know. That was that was that was a
56:59
trade off. He he made me a promise that I
57:01
would help him with all his tactics and operation stuff.
57:04
And in return, we would go play golf after class there at the
57:08
golf course, and we'd walk nine holes together and he'd counsel
57:12
me. Oh, that's awesome.
57:14
That's great. And that there's nothing better
57:17
than having a chaplain that gets into the mix, man, I'm telling
57:20
you, it's, it's just, it's just like when the boys see that like
57:23
the chaplain's in there doing things with them like, 'cause I,
57:27
you know, unfortunately I've had some run insurance.
57:28
So you just got to get the chaplain out of the office
57:30
somehow or, or something like that.
57:32
We got to get the chaplain air assault school, but he just
57:34
doesn't want to go kind of thing.
57:35
But like when you have the chaplain out there just doing
57:38
stuff like you're doing Charlie that that that's that just build
57:40
that helps that helps the command team out one and then it
57:43
just builds confidence in the guys and it's.
57:45
It's, it's, I just, I love the Army.
57:47
I, I mean, I, I said today we were at, you know, I, I, I'm in
57:52
a position now where I'm mostly just a, you know, a staff
57:55
officer like I tell them, like, you know, tip of the spear
57:59
staff. I'm back, I'm back here, OK, you
58:03
know, and when I get to, when we get to, I'm still on jump status
58:07
and had my 167th jump yesterday. And, and it's they're, they're
58:13
my best days. My wife comes home and she's
58:14
like, God, you just still love it, don't you?
58:16
I said like a kid, I mean, just like a kid.
58:19
I love it when we were in 10th Mountain and they did the EIB
58:22
and I, I'm an altar runner, so I run a lot.
58:24
And so and I didn't have a weapon and and I didn't have to
58:27
wear a helmet, but I did that 12 mile with him around River Ridge
58:30
up there. And general Menace was at the
58:32
end, you know, and he was like, I could hear him yell.
58:34
I'm like, who who doesn't have their weapon?
58:37
And someone was like, that's the, that's the brigade
58:39
chaplain, you know, So I came through and and I loved Menace,
58:42
but you know, Menace got mixed reviews, but I loved it.
58:45
I mean, it was just. It was definitely in our
58:46
business. He was grit, you know, He was
58:49
all about killing bad guys. He loved us.
58:52
Yeah, and so we were, they did the great.
58:55
They did the ceremony that day and and I knew a little bit of
58:58
his back story. And so I tapped on the
59:01
microphone. It was real loud as windy, you
59:02
know, I said, gentlemen, you in the stands, Sir, Right here,
59:06
Ranger buddy. I pointed at my EIBI said, hey,
59:09
Sir, I just want to be clear. My EIB predates yours, and I'm
59:13
pretty sure so is my Ranger tag. Let's pray.
59:17
And so, you know, everyone's laughing, you know, and hey,
59:20
man. And he comes.
59:21
He doesn't go out to the field. It comes straight to me.
59:23
He points me, I say, he says date.
59:24
I said April 1985. Yeah, date.
59:28
He said date, I said November 1985.
59:30
He's like, oh, I'm gonna go pencil me.
59:32
I DS on. Yeah, nice.
59:35
Did you? Sorry, Chris.
59:38
Yeah, no, I, I was Charlie. You, you mentioned and I, I want
59:42
to you a little bit of time to talk about this, if you don't
59:45
mind. What was there a tipping point
59:48
or something along those lines? Because you mentioned and it was
59:52
something in how you mentioned it.
59:53
I can't remember the words exactly.
59:55
You're like that. That's when I came to God.
59:58
Yeah, it was when I got in trouble, when I got in trouble
1:00:02
about lost my hat. I was having, I was doing, I was
1:00:04
wrestling with what I call ultimate questions.
1:00:08
Who is God? Is he knowable?
1:00:12
And how do you have a relationship with him?
1:00:15
And I was, I didn't grow up in a Christian home.
1:00:17
My wife grew up in somewhat of a nominal Christian home.
1:00:20
It was she was non practicing. And so I, I would come home and
1:00:24
I would, and I would ask her like a ton of questions.
1:00:28
I grew up, you know, I had a step, I had a stepmom once I was
1:00:31
older, but not no real family life at all.
1:00:33
My wife grew up in a phenomenal family.
1:00:36
I grew to love her dad as much as my own dad or more than my
1:00:40
own father. And he passed away when I was in
1:00:42
IOE and her mother's still living.
1:00:45
And so I would ask her just a ton of questions, just about
1:00:50
like, you know, existential questions.
1:00:52
Who am I? Why don't we exist?
1:00:55
I know that I'm not a good person.
1:00:57
I I mean, I'm not, you know, you don't compare yourself to
1:01:00
others, right? I mean, I'm not, I'm not out
1:01:02
here like Robin Banks, but I know that I'm not.
1:01:04
I'm just, I know I'm not a clean a good person.
1:01:07
And she couldn't answer any of the questions.
1:01:09
But she was in college at Jacksonville State University.
1:01:12
There was a girl in her class name, Monica Boone, and a
1:01:15
teacher made it like a derogatory statement about
1:01:20
something the Apostle Paul had said in First Corinthians.
1:01:22
And this girl broke out her Bible and said, actually, that's
1:01:24
not what he said. And she read it and then she
1:01:26
told her what it meant. And so my wife was like, hey,
1:01:28
are you some kind of a preacher or something?
1:01:30
She was like, no, I just go to a good church that teaches the
1:01:32
Bible. And she said, my husband's been
1:01:34
asking me a ton of questions. Can we come to church with you?
1:01:37
And she was like, we'd love you to come to church with us.
1:01:39
So we went to church with her and heard the gospel.
1:01:43
And for me, it was a, you know, I used the term regeneration.
1:01:47
It was a it was a moment where God just resurrected my soul and
1:01:51
breathed life into me and I knew that what I was missing was a
1:01:54
relationship with Christ and and my wife.
1:01:58
We came home that night and she was like, something happened to
1:02:00
you at church today. What was it?
1:02:02
I said, I don't know, but something happened.
1:02:05
I didn't know, couldn't explain it.
1:02:08
And then the the preacher came by, his name is Jim 90 came by
1:02:10
and he shared the gospel of my wife when I was gone at work.
1:02:13
And she she had a same something a very similar aspect of coming
1:02:17
to faith in Christ. And so we got baptized together
1:02:20
and started walking with the Lord.
1:02:23
Yeah, yeah, awesome. Did you like when you first went
1:02:28
into a unit, you said you went in a group first.
1:02:31
Like how does, how were you like prepared as a chaplain to see
1:02:36
like, I mean, I don't know, like I mean, it's stuff that you
1:02:38
experience going in as a chaplain and seeing, I guess
1:02:42
dealing with all the soldiers issues and stuff.
1:02:44
Like was it just something that was different or like how did
1:02:48
you attack? How did you approach that?
1:02:50
Like being a new chaplain? Like I guess I you have a
1:02:53
different style or how do you have to develop a style or
1:02:56
approach or? So I spent 17 years in in
1:03:00
between infantry or between enlisted and and being a
1:03:03
chaplain in the Army. And in those 17 years I was
1:03:06
going to college and seminary and pastoring small churches.
1:03:10
And so God was honing my ability to be a minister in all of that.
1:03:15
And my enlisted time honed my ability to be a soldier and, and
1:03:20
they just married very well together.
1:03:22
So, you know, it's badges. Do I?
1:03:25
I tell guys all the time, don't chase badges that badges.
1:03:30
Badges may open a door initially, but your performance
1:03:35
and who you are will determine whether you stay in the room or
1:03:38
they're just badges and you're kicked out of the room.
1:03:41
And there's plenty of people that don't have any badges that
1:03:43
are phenomenal chaplains and soldiers.
1:03:47
And there's plenty of folks that got all of them that suck,
1:03:50
right. And so I was, I went to 3rd
1:03:53
PSYOP group first. I was only there for a year and
1:03:55
then I went to, and then I went to Ranger School to be a
1:03:57
chaplain at 6th, at 6th RTB. And I will tell you that I, I
1:04:02
didn't feel like I had to do I, I, I didn't find the learning
1:04:06
curve was hard at all. The army had changed drastically
1:04:09
in 17 years. I noticed that that was an army
1:04:12
at war. And because it was 2009, so 2
1:04:14
fronts and, you know, it was an army at war that had that, that
1:04:18
was really, I mean, we were dealing with memorials every
1:04:21
week. But, but because I was
1:04:24
physically fit and I showed up and I liked it.
1:04:27
I like to put a rock on my back. I like to go to the range.
1:04:30
I like to jump out of airplanes. I like, I like to, to do all the
1:04:35
things that soldiers do. So I didn't have to be talked
1:04:38
into it. Sometimes I had to be told, hey,
1:04:39
get out of here, you know, in a good way.
1:04:43
So that gave me credibility with that.
1:04:46
And then all it takes is it's, it's like a, it's like giving a
1:04:50
hungry man bread. All it takes is making an impact
1:04:55
for a hurting soldier that impacts them profoundly.
1:05:00
And they will tell everybody. And before you know it, people
1:05:04
are coming to see you because they're like, hey, I heard that
1:05:06
you helped a friend of mine, my daughter, listen to this crazy
1:05:09
story. Listen to this my daughter.
1:05:12
My daughter was teaching elementary school in Korea in
1:05:16
2023 and was out with her. Her boyfriend, then husband now,
1:05:23
was a pilot over there, and they were out at some bar in Korea in
1:05:26
2023. And a girl and a guy walked up
1:05:30
to my daughter and said, are you Chaplain Shields daughter?
1:05:35
There's a soldier in a bar in Korea.
1:05:36
She said, yeah. And and then he said your dad,
1:05:40
you know, did this in my life. And she didn't get his name.
1:05:44
I don't know who he was. And I don't know how he knew,
1:05:47
how he knew that that was my daughter.
1:05:48
Maybe he had seen her, you know, on the Ranger camp or something.
1:05:51
I don't know. But that kind of for me that
1:05:56
that's like, I say that sometimes for the chaplain in
1:05:58
the Army, and I don't want this to be misunderstood, but our
1:06:02
best days are often your worst day.
1:06:06
Right. Because you come and say, hey,
1:06:09
Sir, if you got a minute and you got a soldier sitting in your
1:06:12
office or in your, you know, wherever you are.
1:06:15
And, and they're just, they become vulnerable with you and
1:06:20
they tell you what's going on in their life and you just give
1:06:23
them. I, I never feel compelled to fix
1:06:25
it. I just feel compelled to give
1:06:28
them some hope. Like hope is the, is the most
1:06:31
powerful thing that I have to give to someone is hope.
1:06:35
And so I didn't find it too hard.
1:06:36
I went, I went to 3rd SYOP and then I went to 6th RTB.
1:06:39
Listen, my time at Six RTB was great.
1:06:44
I bet you I. Love.
1:06:46
Oh dude, I love those regular students.
1:06:49
I walked every wet day. I jumped with the students every
1:06:52
jump. I, I would, I loved it.
1:06:55
I loved it. I loved being with those
1:06:56
students. So listen, my daughter was about
1:07:00
10, I think, let's see about 10, I think, then 9 or 10.
1:07:03
She loved to bake. And so I came home like after
1:07:06
the first or second month that I was there and she said I was
1:07:09
talking about the recycles and she said, daddy, what are
1:07:11
recycles? Because we lived on the Ranger
1:07:13
camp. I said recycles are the Ranger
1:07:15
students that failed to get enough, enough points to pass to
1:07:19
go in and get the Ranger tabs. They got to do it again.
1:07:21
And she was like, oh, that's that's got to be hard.
1:07:24
I said, yeah, it's hard, but they'll be all right.
1:07:26
She's like, can I bake them a cupcake?
1:07:28
And I was like, girl, no, you're not baking.
1:07:33
No Ranger students, no cupcakes. This Ranger School is supposed
1:07:36
to be hard. And my wife is like, oh, for
1:07:39
God's sakes, let her bake them a cupcake.
1:07:41
And I was like, maybe. So I talked to the command,
1:07:45
said, hey, my daughter wants to bake, bake the recycles or
1:07:47
recycles one cupcake. They were like, that's fine, she
1:07:49
can bake them one cupcake. So it started this tradition.
1:07:52
If you if you recycle Ranger School, my daughter would make
1:07:55
these and the cupcakes grew in size over time and she'd
1:07:58
decorate every one of them differently and she'd put them
1:08:00
on them. We'd take them down there in my
1:08:02
Jeep and on a cookie sheet and she'd pass these cupcakes out to
1:08:06
the recycles on Friday night before the new class came in on
1:08:09
Saturday morning. They'd all get a cupcake.
1:08:12
And So what happened was that in time, over the years, I people
1:08:15
would come up to me and they'd say to me, hey, Sir, you don't
1:08:18
Remember Me, but you were my chap in Ranger School and your
1:08:21
daughter gave me a cupcake. And I would say then you were a
1:08:25
no go. And they'd laugh.
1:08:26
All right, so full circle, full circle, here we go.
1:08:30
So I'm I, I go down to Fort Bragg to jump with my son right
1:08:34
before he got out of the Army last year.
1:08:36
And he, he's always like, hey, don't be an asshole to my
1:08:39
commander just because you guys are the same rank.
1:08:41
Like I don't need and, and I never have.
1:08:43
But I, I mean, I always tease him.
1:08:45
I'm going to let him know. I'm going to let him know.
1:08:46
And he's like, don't do that. I still work here.
1:08:50
Come on, dad. He was HHCXO.
1:08:52
He's like, come on, man. He's like, if you're going to
1:08:53
come down, we're going to jump. Let's just have fun and jump.
1:08:55
I'm like, OK, so I get down there and his exo, who was
1:08:59
pretty good dude, he'd had a good rest of his exo, Seth was
1:09:01
the HICXO at the time. He says.
1:09:05
We're sitting there talking in the hallway.
1:09:07
It's my son and my son's chaplain and me and his exo.
1:09:10
And his exo says he goes, hey, Sir, he said, I'm pretty sure
1:09:15
you were my chaplain in Ranger School in Florida.
1:09:17
I said, when did you go through? He said, I went through in like
1:09:19
2011. I said, then I was your
1:09:20
chaplain. I said, I'm just curious, did
1:09:24
you get a cupcake? And he said I did.
1:09:29
Then we both know you were a failure.
1:09:31
Yeah. Oh.
1:09:35
Did you were you pretty busy as a chaplain during that period
1:09:38
time frame? Was it was, I mean, I'm sure it
1:09:39
was like a lot of people approaching you like pressure of
1:09:41
not graduating having issues in Ranger School or something.
1:09:44
Was it a pretty big because I feel like they're so controlled
1:09:47
in an environment like they don't.
1:09:48
I mean it's. My student, my, my, my workload
1:09:53
was not the students in Ranger School.
1:09:55
I was there. I wasn't there for the students.
1:09:57
I was there for the cadre 2 wars going on and, you know, the, the
1:10:00
rotation of, you know, gone a year home a year, gone a year
1:10:03
home a year. And then they get to, they get
1:10:05
to go, they get to go be an RI. And for some of them, it was the
1:10:09
first time in their entire career where they had 36 months
1:10:11
where they weren't deploying. So what?
1:10:13
So I, I began to track this. I began to track that, you know,
1:10:16
they come in initially and they're excited, they're home,
1:10:19
they live on the Ranger camp, they 24 on, 24 off when we're in
1:10:21
cycle and then like 4 day weekend, four day weekend, four
1:10:24
day weekend. But what happened was is that
1:10:27
after about eight or nine months, they get the itch and
1:10:33
there's no deployment coming. And all of a sudden those things
1:10:36
you've been burying because you've been ignoring them in
1:10:39
your marriage because I'm just going to go away again for 15
1:10:42
months or 12 months, you got to address him.
1:10:44
So my real workload came in helping those those Ranger
1:10:47
instructors to work through those issues with their
1:10:50
families. Charlie, you know, you know,
1:10:52
Trenton, Penny, Trenton Petty, he's the executive director of
1:10:56
the Ranger Association. We had him on on here, I think
1:11:02
episode 2 or something. He's a buddy of mine.
1:11:04
But he he does that now. He's there are three.
1:11:08
He's yeah, he he does all the best Ranger stuff.
1:11:10
But he says the same thing you said like he he was at his low
1:11:13
point during when he was an RI, like he was, he was drinking a
1:11:19
lot, like, you know, all these things.
1:11:22
He he was just fat. He was all these kind of stuff.
1:11:26
But you know, he he's the Ranger community saved his life.
1:11:29
And he'll tell you that every day you see him.
1:11:31
But he's he's roaming around doing all that stuff.
1:11:33
He's down here for soft week and stuff.
1:11:34
But he's like, dude, I had such a hard time as an RI.
1:11:38
Like I just, I just did, I just struggled.
1:11:40
So, yeah, I can see what you're saying with that, man.
1:11:43
So yeah, it's crazy. But did you, did you have a hard
1:11:49
time as a chaplain working with different commands teams like
1:11:53
that You, you, you fell under, was there any issues with that?
1:11:56
Like, 'cause I, I feel like a lot of command teams don't know
1:12:00
how to utilize their chaplain. Like I don't sometimes.
1:12:03
Like, I just don't think they do.
1:12:05
So I, I, I mean, I, I've, I don't have, I've had, I've had
1:12:10
all, I've had great command teams.
1:12:12
I mean, they've, some have been better than others.
1:12:14
Some have had, I mean, it's, you know, it's like anything else,
1:12:18
right? It's, I mean, some are better
1:12:20
than others, but for the most part I've had great command
1:12:22
teams. But I also, my personality type
1:12:25
is that I've never needed to be told what to do, right?
1:12:28
I think that I think some of the command teams don't know how to
1:12:30
use their chaplain because they don't know how to use their
1:12:33
chaplain, right. But the chaplain should be
1:12:35
telling the command teams how you use me, right?
1:12:38
If I got to, if I got to rely on you, Sir, Major and commander to
1:12:42
tell me when they don't know chaplain stuff, they don't know
1:12:45
what's the value is. So my job is to show them what
1:12:49
what is my true value via combat multiplier.
1:12:52
Sometimes my value is, sometimes my value is to go serve chap
1:12:57
because we're training. I was in NTC as the deputy
1:13:00
division chaplain, First Armor division, and sometimes they're
1:13:04
struggling to figure out who's going to serve chair or what.
1:13:06
I'll search at the Japanese division chaplain.
1:13:09
I don't care. I mean, listen, I can't do this
1:13:12
and I can't do that, but I can do that.
1:13:14
It's if you just find yours, find a way to make yourself a
1:13:17
valuable asset. If you find you find something
1:13:20
that you can do that alleviates pressure for others.
1:13:23
MDMP No one wants to hear what I think about what's the best way
1:13:27
to protect the organization in a wet gap crossing where there's
1:13:30
going to be an NBC attack. I'd be like, let's not do that,
1:13:34
right? But I'll tell you what I can do.
1:13:36
I can make sure the coffee pot is never empty.
1:13:40
I can make sure there's ink in the tongue or toner in the in
1:13:42
the in the printer. I can make sure that I can make
1:13:45
sure that people that can't go to chow because we're digging
1:13:47
into something deep get chow. You just, you find a way to be
1:13:51
value added because once they find out that you're not just
1:13:55
looking, you know, that's not my lane, not my, you'll never hear
1:13:59
me say it's not my job, right? I, I didn't have any issues with
1:14:04
the command teams. I found that most of the time
1:14:07
the command teams were just, I think they were relieved that
1:14:09
number one, I wasn't weird, right?
1:14:13
Yeah. And I wasn't fat, right?
1:14:17
If you were a doer. Yeah, and I wasn't causing
1:14:19
problems. I was.
1:14:20
I was solving problems for them. The best chaplain is the
1:14:23
chaplain that engages engages in the formation in such a way that
1:14:28
the possible problem never becomes a problem.
1:14:31
Yeah, I think it's like, you know, some chaplains, you don't
1:14:36
see them until I, I, I think, you know, there's got to be,
1:14:39
maybe there's some separation between the chaplain and the
1:14:41
command team too, because you don't want to walk around
1:14:43
looking like you're the spy for the commander and third major,
1:14:46
right? But like some chaplains just
1:14:48
don't show up until the bad things happen.
1:14:50
Like, you know, so the guys are like, oh shit, here comes a
1:14:54
chaplain. You know, he's not, he's not out
1:14:55
there like you like he's not out there on the jumps or doing PT
1:14:59
or doing all these things. So it is in those places when I
1:15:03
was, when I became a supervisory chaplain, when I went, when I
1:15:06
went to major, I said, and I had a chance to supervise other
1:15:09
chaplains. I've always said, I've said,
1:15:11
hey, listen, if I could give you any advice when you say I'm I'm
1:15:15
not sure what to do or where to go.
1:15:17
I'm not sure what to do with my hands.
1:15:19
I'd say get with the S3, look at the training calendar, find out
1:15:24
what footprint in your organization is doing the worst
1:15:27
thing for that day and go do it with them tonight.
1:15:33
My organization tonight, I've got AI got some guys on my team
1:15:36
tonight they're going to do, they're going to do a 40 mile or
1:15:39
tonight. It's going to kick off at
1:15:40
midnight. Hell yeah.
1:15:42
OK, you know where their chaplain's going to be at
1:15:44
midnight? Right beside them.
1:15:47
I'm not that chaplain. Not me.
1:15:49
One of my guys. I was just talking.
1:15:51
To him two hours ago, yeah. I was just talking to him like
1:15:55
two hours ago and he said hey, Sir, I got to get some sleep
1:15:58
because I got to be, I got to be at the start line here.
1:16:00
And I was like, hell yeah. I didn't tell him to do that,
1:16:03
but I hired well, I didn't tell him to do that.
1:16:06
Yeah. My leadership style is to hire
1:16:09
horses and just keep expanding the fence to let them run.
1:16:12
Yeah, I think as a chaplain, it's where you got to be though,
1:16:16
because I think that's when guys are not, not say they're more
1:16:18
vulnerable, but you know, that's when you know, you know, the,
1:16:22
the the walls aren't up and they're not, you know, you can
1:16:24
get a little bit, some information or, and see what's
1:16:27
really going on with them, man. I don't I.
1:16:29
Don't know? Build the trust.
1:16:31
Build the trust. Yeah.
1:16:32
You know, I had no idea as a command team when I was in 431,
1:16:36
like how to we didn't, I mean, we had a good chaplain.
1:16:38
McGrath was that was his name, right, Sir?
1:16:40
Was it McGrath? Yeah.
1:16:43
He was good. When we first when we came in,
1:16:44
he wasn't so good. But the second when McGrath came
1:16:47
in, he was awesome. So he turned into my battle
1:16:49
buddy because when we went to, you know, we were doing the
1:16:52
close out of Afghanistan and we did all the H Chi stuff and it
1:16:56
was during COVID and he was like my battle buddy man because we
1:16:58
can only move around theater, which is me and him.
1:17:02
Like it's a really restricted movement.
1:17:04
But you know, my boss here was stuck on the base.
1:17:07
But you know, having him and having him being proactive and
1:17:10
stuff and he was out running with the guys all the time.
1:17:13
And even even it was a little bit of like a cigar little thing
1:17:17
over at like 1 of the patios on base and like doing things like
1:17:21
that. He was such, he was so
1:17:23
beneficial when he knew so much about what was going on with the
1:17:25
organization. Like he just was so helpful to
1:17:28
me as a like a Sergeant major. He was a leader, right?
1:17:31
He was a leader, Yeah. That's, I mean, leadership comes
1:17:34
in all. It's not what Branch and CIGA
1:17:36
you have on are. Are you a servant leader, You
1:17:39
know, Yeah. Yeah.
1:17:43
So after so you go to six RTV, What what what happens next?
1:17:52
So I, I went back to user sock. I got a chance to go serve at
1:17:55
7th Forces Group. They had done a bracket move
1:17:58
from Fort Bragg down to Evelyn. So I just moved across the
1:18:01
across the way and I went, I went to their 4th Battalion.
1:18:05
It was the last of the remember whenever the Army was growing.
1:18:07
So all the, all the divisions got an extra brigade.
1:18:11
Same thing in the groups, the SF groups that got an extra
1:18:13
battalion. So I was the chaplain, first
1:18:15
chaplain for 4th Battalion, Seventh Group, and I went there.
1:18:20
I had, man, I had such a great run there.
1:18:22
I loved those guys. Had deployed twice with them and
1:18:28
did two years there. And then I got picked up to go
1:18:30
to the 173rd, went to Italy, 25-O3.
1:18:35
I will tell you that it was hands down.
1:18:39
I, I tell folks the 173rd is a cult buddy.
1:18:42
When I was there, I was Jim Jones, right?
1:18:45
I, I made the Kool-aid, I drank the Kool-aid, and I'd give you
1:18:49
more the Kool-aid, right? 25-O3, the rock baby.
1:18:52
I tell you, man, there's some been some incredible leaders
1:18:55
that come out of that place too, man.
1:18:56
Unbelievable. I had Todd Brown.
1:18:59
I had Todd Brown and Mike Klepper.
1:19:01
That's what I have. Two totally different leaders.
1:19:05
Look different, talk different, lead different.
1:19:08
Both A+ exceptional. Combat Harden.
1:19:12
It was a combat harden unit too, man.
1:19:14
Yeah. For General Brown, that one
1:19:16
right up there, but that's that's my deployment point from
1:19:19
2007, 2008. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:19:23
So Todd Brown, General Brown, he was, we're really good friends.
1:19:26
He was just here at my house last week.
1:19:28
He was over from Korea for some TDY stuff and he could let me
1:19:32
know when I scooped him up. And I mean, I, I'm just, so, my
1:19:36
Sergeant majors that I had there one of the first Arns that
1:19:40
became the Brigade Star Major Matt Carlson.
1:19:42
And I, he was, he was the HAC first arm.
1:19:45
Oh, Matt and I are, I talk to Matt all the time.
1:19:47
Matt's retired the same day that I retire.
1:19:50
And so Matt was, he was the HAC, he was the HAC first arm.
1:19:55
And so I got there and Robin and I got there maybe a week or two
1:19:58
after I got there, they had launched up to OAR, Operation
1:20:00
Atlantic Resolve, and they've gone up to after the Balkans.
1:20:04
And I'm down there hanging out, got to get the family settled,
1:20:06
got to get the household goods in and, and I was time for me to
1:20:09
go up there. And I asked my one.
1:20:11
I said, Hey, what do I need to take with me?
1:20:13
And then he was like, you just just take a, take a light bag,
1:20:17
man. He was like, they're staying in
1:20:18
the barracks, they're eating in restaurants.
1:20:19
And I was like, Are you sure? I mean that I think they're on
1:20:25
like we're on a kind of like a training appointment up there.
1:20:27
And he's like, oh, dude. It was like, I'm, I'm talking to
1:20:29
them every day. So I didn't take much, but I
1:20:33
launched up there and the day I get there, the Operation Storm
1:20:37
major was like, hey, I need if I call your name off, get over
1:20:39
here on this side. And if I call your name over
1:20:41
here, get on this side. So I get off on this side, he's
1:20:43
like, all right, you guys get your shit and get in the back of
1:20:44
the LMTV. And I was like, where are we
1:20:48
going? He was like, oh, we're starting
1:20:49
to field portion of this deployment today and you're
1:20:53
going to fob rock. And I'm like, I don't have
1:20:58
anything to go to fog Rock with. I don't have AI, don't even have
1:21:02
a sleeping bag. I got a poncho liner.
1:21:04
Yeah, we can go out to Fog Rock. It's Lafia.
1:21:07
It's like 35° and rainy. We're in a circus tent and it
1:21:13
got it's time to rack out and I just lay down on the floor with
1:21:17
a foggy liner. And so, you know, we wake up the
1:21:21
next morning and and Matt Carlson is sitting, he's sitting
1:21:25
on his cock and he's smoking a a vape.
1:21:28
He's vaping and he's just looking at me and he shakes his
1:21:33
head and he's like, who are you? And I said I'm your new
1:21:37
battalion chap in there first time.
1:21:39
And he's like. He says where's your shit said.
1:21:43
Well, there's a story behind that.
1:21:48
And he, he's got a, you know, he's got a Pelican with him.
1:21:50
He goes lucky for you, I bring extra of everything.
1:21:52
And he gave me a, he had an extra bivy sack.
1:21:54
It was a desert tan bivy sack and some other crap, you know,
1:21:58
And we became best friends that day, you know, and he's always
1:22:01
like, yeah, you're lucky I was there.
1:22:03
You'd have died. Yeah, yeah.
1:22:05
Now, what years were you there again?
1:22:08
14 to 16. Yeah.
1:22:10
OK. Yeah, that's so I had, we shared
1:22:14
a lot of the same dirt. I was in two CR at that time.
1:22:17
OK. I did my S3 XO time right, so we
1:22:21
were we were trading off with y'all a lot with that OAR stuff.
1:22:25
Yeah. And then we went up to Ukraine
1:22:28
that Todd and Mike Klepper did their change of command in
1:22:31
Ukraine. Think I remember and Aviv.
1:22:35
Yeah, it was great. I loved my time there.
1:22:38
I, I loved it. I mean, it was just the
1:22:40
relationships and the camaraderie and I mean, God, it
1:22:44
was just, I mean, jumping in all these different countries and
1:22:49
sleeping on the ground again, you know, it was easy for me
1:22:53
because I didn't have to carry a radio or, you know, weapon
1:22:56
system or ammo. We were out, we were out in the
1:22:58
field once and Colonel Clapper, I was, I was always hanging out
1:23:01
with them. I was always moving with the
1:23:02
command team and it was raining It, it was miserable.
1:23:05
We're in Germany training and I set up a poncho hooch low to the
1:23:08
ground and I'm in a rucksack flop.
1:23:10
And I had A and I, I always have a jet board with me.
1:23:14
I'm sipping coffee, you know, and I can see MM Pepper's over
1:23:18
there. He's got all his team around
1:23:19
him, you know, and they're just getting wet, you know, He just
1:23:23
keeps looking over at me and I'm just, I ain't nothing I can do,
1:23:27
bro. You call me when you need me.
1:23:29
I make coffee for you. You.
1:23:30
Know, yeah. Yeah, hey, MMM is a he's an
1:23:34
amazing dude person and just. He is a good person.
1:23:37
He's. Tough and he's tough.
1:23:40
Too, man, I I don't like, I don't know how he's doing it at
1:23:43
his age, man, that guy just moves.
1:23:44
And so, yeah, man, I don't, I don't know.
1:23:48
Did you so you did time and there because paratrooper
1:23:51
culture is awesome, right? And.
1:23:54
Did you when did you go to 10th Mountain?
1:23:55
Was that after that or was? Yeah.
1:23:57
So I got picked up BZ to banger and I had not even been to my
1:24:00
career course yet. So I left Italy a year early and
1:24:04
I did and then then I got selected for residential IOE.
1:24:07
So I did career course and IOE back-to-back and then and then
1:24:12
here's how Tev Mountain happened.
1:24:14
I'm in IOE and Colonel Brown, then Colonel Brown, Lieutenant,
1:24:19
he I think he maybe he had just made O 6, but Colonel Brown
1:24:21
calls me, he goes, hey man, have they come out and started
1:24:23
interviewing yet for assignments?
1:24:25
And I said they are this week and he goes, did you get an
1:24:27
assignment yet? I said no, I'm interviewing
1:24:29
Colonel Bartholomew to go back to the 173rd as the brigade
1:24:32
Chapman. He said no, dude, take Second
1:24:34
Brigade, 10th Mountain. I was like, dude, nobody wants
1:24:36
2nd Brigade 10 Mountain. I said they were here today and
1:24:40
they had a luncheon and no one showed up.
1:24:42
He's like, no man, you got to take second, Second Brigade to
1:24:45
the Fountain. I said, why would I do that?
1:24:46
Because, you know, no one wants to go to Fort Jerome, Fort Poe,
1:24:49
Fort West. And I was like, he's like, dude,
1:24:53
I'm going to be the brigade commander and we're going to
1:24:55
take it back to Afghanistan. And I was like, done.
1:24:58
So I go in the next day and I was like, hey, I'll, I'd like to
1:25:00
go to 2nd Brigade, 10th Mountain.
1:25:01
Of course, they're like, oh, here you go.
1:25:04
Yeah. So about six weeks later, Todd
1:25:07
calls me and he goes, dude, you got to cut sling loader on 2nd
1:25:10
Brigade. I said, I don't get to cut sling
1:25:14
load on anything. I can't cut sling load on what
1:25:16
time supper is tonight. Dude, I'm a brand new major and
1:25:19
he's like, let me, let me know how it goes.
1:25:22
I said you son of a gun, what are you doing?
1:25:24
He goes, I'm going to be the next RCO.
1:25:26
He said I can't turn that down and so I go to 10th Mountain.
1:25:30
But I will tell you, all said and done, 10th Mountain Division
1:25:35
was my second most favorite assignment I've ever had in the
1:25:37
Army in the 173rd I. Love it.
1:25:41
The climate, the culture, upstate New York, Beautiful.
1:25:46
I mean, it was, it was awesome, Yeah.
1:25:50
Yeah, 'cause I got there in 17, I went to, I did both brigades.
1:25:54
I was in OPS in first Brigade, brigade OPS, our major and that
1:25:57
went over to 431 and 2nd Brigade.
1:25:59
But the, the soldiers there are different.
1:26:01
I mean, it's paratrooper cultures, paratrooper culture,
1:26:04
man, it's just amazing. But there's some really tough
1:26:07
guys. There's a really tough young
1:26:08
kids in 10 mile Division, man. You put them on no and stuff and
1:26:12
you move through some of that stuff that they got to do and
1:26:15
resiliency wise and you know. I still have a thing on my
1:26:20
phone. I'll tell people, they'll say
1:26:22
how cold was Tech mountain. I said I'm going to show you.
1:26:24
I still have a Blizzard warning on my phone.
1:26:26
We were doing a the crawl walk run phase in 2020 to go back to
1:26:29
JRTC and it got cancelled because of COVID.
1:26:32
We were in the field in January 2020.
1:26:35
It snowed 30 some inches. It was a -14 it's 50 mile an
1:26:39
hour winds and we were in the. That's that's when I I'd just
1:26:43
taken command. Into and and and 20.
1:26:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so freaking cold.
1:26:52
I remember, I don't remember who our operation Star major was.
1:26:54
He was a, a leg Ranger. He was a good dude though.
1:26:58
He was a good dude. All the staff was trying to
1:27:00
sleep in the stat in the staff tank 'cause there's a little bit
1:27:03
of heat in there. And he was like, hey chap, he
1:27:05
says where you sleeping? I said I'm sleeping where I'm
1:27:06
supposed to, Sir. And he says, you and me, Ranger
1:27:09
buddy, and we slept our asses that cold ground with no heat.
1:27:13
I remember the first morning that I woke up in there, I
1:27:16
thought to myself, my God, I've never been anywhere that's cold
1:27:19
in all my life. It was cold.
1:27:23
That was, that was the same for me.
1:27:24
So I, I, I took command in February 2020, we went out to
1:27:28
that mountain peak. Yeah, that's right.
1:27:30
Mountain Peak. And then, you know, we go out
1:27:33
there and of course, you know, Jerry and I are running around
1:27:36
in the the attack trying to figure shit out.
1:27:39
And that's when the Blizzard started coming.
1:27:42
And they, you know, they shut everything down and they're
1:27:44
like, all right, get get to shelter.
1:27:46
Get to shelter. So Jerry and I with the tag, and
1:27:50
I can't remember the company that was with us, maybe Bravo
1:27:53
Company. Yeah, I think.
1:27:55
So I think it was Bravo was around Bravo Companies AO.
1:27:58
Yeah. And so we, we end up there on
1:28:00
the FLS and one of those corrugated steel sheds or
1:28:04
whatever. And so we released out of the
1:28:06
the elements. But anybody that knows anything,
1:28:10
a non insulated corrugated steel shed is actually colder on the
1:28:14
inside than it is on the outside.
1:28:17
Maybe you know, you're born and raised Florida boy.
1:28:20
OK, I don't like cold weather and I the most miserable what I
1:28:25
think they shut us down for like two or three nights.
1:28:27
The most miserable two to three nights.
1:28:29
I couldn't wait to get back on the road again.
1:28:31
And back in the. Field so I could start moving
1:28:33
and warm the hell up like I I just could not get warm.
1:28:37
It was, yeah, so cool. I learned some good lessons at
1:28:41
that. I learned how you take a Nalgene
1:28:42
bottle and put boiling water in it and throw it in your sleeping
1:28:45
bag and stay in room all night. Yeah, yeah.
1:28:48
I learned a lot of hard lessons. I learned a lot of hard lessons
1:28:51
load manager wise, Charlie, like, you know, trying to
1:28:54
especially as being a leader man, like you can't let the boys
1:28:57
kind of you got to kind of kind of manage that because they'll
1:28:59
pack too heavy or they'll pack, they won't bring the right stuff
1:29:03
and they're carrying £100 rack, you know, some rocks and 6 feet
1:29:07
of snow. And how do I, how do I utilize
1:29:10
FSE to get stuff out to the guys?
1:29:12
How do we do this as a team effort like that to me, because
1:29:15
Menace came up to us one night. He's like, hey, man, some of
1:29:17
those boys are looking kind of heavy.
1:29:18
I was like, Roger Thatcher. I don't like we got to figure
1:29:21
this out so. But yeah, man, I learned how to
1:29:24
wear that Equix. I learned.
1:29:26
I used to tell the guys all the time, you can't dress like it's
1:29:28
February at Fort Benning. Yeah, at February at Fort Drum,
1:29:32
you have an Equix. If you don't wear it, it works.
1:29:36
Yeah, if you it's got 7 layers to it, man, it works.
1:29:40
Yeah, I loved it. If it wasn't.
1:29:42
I mean, I don't want to speak I'll of anybody's home state or
1:29:45
anything, but if New York wasn't quite like New York, I could
1:29:48
retire in upstate. Yeah, no.
1:29:50
Adirondacks so beautiful. I feel you.
1:29:53
Yeah, 'cause I was the same way, man.
1:29:54
I spent a lot of most of my time in the 82nd and like I didn't
1:29:57
know how to, I would wear like, you know, the waffle top here
1:30:01
there, like, you know, whatever. Never wore the whole system
1:30:04
until I got the drum. And it was like, I mean, one, it
1:30:06
was comfortable and I I didn't have a lot of like trust in Army
1:30:10
equipment, but that stuff, yeah, it definitely, it definitely
1:30:13
works. And I didn't know how.
1:30:14
It's weird. It took me till I was at E9 to
1:30:15
figure out how to wear all that stuff.
1:30:18
So it took you till you were somewhere old enough to to want
1:30:21
to wear all that stuff. But it's crazy because the guys
1:30:24
would be the defense and snow would come in and just lock you
1:30:27
in within two hours, 3 hours, man.
1:30:30
It's just, it's incredible. And then, you know, I'd see
1:30:32
those poor guys out there just being resilient and tough.
1:30:35
And you know, sure, they come back to the 8th station with
1:30:37
cold weather injuries you had and everybody did.
1:30:39
But just so we would. I don't think we've ever been so
1:30:42
proud of those soldiers, man, because they hear a lot of they
1:30:45
ain't complaining to us. But it was they were just
1:30:47
rocking along, dude. It was awesome.
1:30:49
The blue collar battalion. The blue collar battalion.
1:30:52
Yeah. Do you remember Chris Walgren?
1:30:56
Yeah, I do use the Brigade 3. You know, Chris is finishing
1:30:59
that battalion command right now.
1:31:00
Oh, really? In 10th Mountain?
1:31:03
Yeah, he's forward right now. And he's he's forward deployed
1:31:05
in CENTCOM, but he switches out I think in April.
1:31:09
Which which battalion? I can't remember.
1:31:12
He is Keith Benedict, golden Dragons.
1:31:15
I think he has the golden Dragons so.
1:31:19
Jared, I don't know if you got the e-mail, Jared or not.
1:31:22
Probably not. But Jared, did you know Jared
1:31:26
Larpenteur Trump I. Don't think so.
1:31:30
OK, so he was at that point in time he was still in purgatory
1:31:36
up on division staff. He has fans planner up there.
1:31:42
But post that kind of rotation in into summer, they sent Jared
1:31:49
down to be our our XO, our battalion XO.
1:31:52
Long story short, Jared ends up taking his battalion
1:31:56
commandments 431. Oh, that's awesome.
1:32:00
And so he gives up command about three weeks I think.
1:32:05
OK, There isn't. I mean, it seems to be a lot of
1:32:08
repeat guys up there. It's like the Army's like, hey,
1:32:10
they have experience in that, so let's send them back there.
1:32:13
Both have been proud to be the division chaplain there.
1:32:16
I'd have been proud to do it. Both of my boys are hockey
1:32:18
players. That's how I I was like I know I
1:32:19
can get 10 mile division, I know I can go there.
1:32:22
Like I know there's hockey rinks there.
1:32:24
So yeah. Charlie, did you have, was it a
1:32:27
different approach to her, you know, for the 173rd in 10th
1:32:31
Mound Division than as a chaplain?
1:32:32
There was like SF and group, is it because they're more senior
1:32:35
guys in SF world? I guess I mean compared to the
1:32:38
young Pfc that's in 10th Mound Division or 173rd?
1:32:42
And this won't be popular, but I'm going to tell you right now,
1:32:45
but I found that I had what I felt like was a far more
1:32:52
fulfilling ministry as far as the chaplain goes in
1:32:55
conventional Army and 173rd and Ranger School, 10th Mountain
1:32:59
Division. You know, the special operations
1:33:02
community is, is fun. It's a fun assignment.
1:33:05
It's, and it's in many ways, it's an easier assignment for me
1:33:08
because you typically have a more mature crowd.
1:33:13
You have an older, mostly an older, you know, in comparison
1:33:17
to the Army, it's a little bit more mature, a little bit older.
1:33:20
Sometimes, sometimes the pride of that prevents them from
1:33:24
asking for help. You know, where in, you know,
1:33:28
those privates, those young E fives 173rd 10th mountain, you
1:33:32
know, they don't, they don't man.
1:33:33
They just want help. They don't care, right?
1:33:35
And I mean, I was telling someone the other day, a funny
1:33:37
story about a private came to see me in one of my
1:33:41
organizations comes in, he's all sheepies and he's like, hey Sir,
1:33:44
he said, and what guys told me to come and see you before I do
1:33:47
this? I was like, what's up?
1:33:48
And he said, so last night I was drinking a little and I found
1:33:51
some girl on the Internet live and we and we got naked and we
1:33:57
and we masturbated to each other.
1:33:58
And what I didn't know is that she recorded it.
1:34:01
And now she's telling me that if I don't give her $500 that she's
1:34:04
going to send this video to everybody.
1:34:06
And I said, have you given her the money?
1:34:08
And he raises in her pocket. He goes, no, I have it right
1:34:10
here. I said, put that money back in
1:34:12
your pocket. Do not give her the money.
1:34:14
He's like, well, what if she gives it to mine?
1:34:16
You know, sends it out. And I said, all right, two
1:34:17
things. Number one is this.
1:34:20
No one is going to be surprised that a 19 year old got naked and
1:34:23
masturbated to another girl working.
1:34:27
They're not going to be surprised and they're not going
1:34:29
to care. That's number one.
1:34:31
Number two, what she's doing is committing a, a, a federal crime
1:34:34
called lawyer fraud, sex torture.
1:34:36
So don't do that, right? And he was like, he's like, I
1:34:40
got three guys that barracks that are in the same situation.
1:34:42
I was like, yeah, put the delete the account and, and I said, and
1:34:46
stop doing that, right? Go meet someone in person or
1:34:48
something, right? Chris.
1:34:50
That, that kind of that kind of ministry for me, like, you know,
1:34:56
that's real, you know, that's real NSF, you know, that
1:35:01
problems in, in the special operations community are usually
1:35:04
they're, they're a little smarter.
1:35:06
So they do big bigger things, but there's fewer of them.
1:35:11
And so often times, unfortunately, like by the time
1:35:15
they get to me, a lot of times it's, you know, it's, there's
1:35:18
not a lot that I can do now, not always, right.
1:35:21
But I found the ministry in, in the, in the communities are
1:35:24
different in the sense that, you know, you have the much younger,
1:35:28
immature, more impulsive, but also more usually much quicker
1:35:33
and willing to come and talk to you, especially if you've, if
1:35:35
you hung out with them and shared some suffering with them.
1:35:38
Yeah. Versus in the, in the special
1:35:40
communities, mostly what I do in the special communities is I
1:35:43
provide a lot of like I provide a lot of things that are like
1:35:47
almost like preventative care. Like I'm going to take 9 couples
1:35:50
to a a really nice cooking store school around here in a couple
1:35:56
weeks and I'm going to, we're going to do cooking, cooking for
1:35:58
communication. Nice.
1:36:00
And yeah, so. Do they is how do they select
1:36:04
chaplains to go to those specific units?
1:36:07
Is it how do you like, how do you get to go to that?
1:36:10
I mean, I'm sure you got to be a major or senior guy, but.
1:36:13
Yeah, it's all, but it's all, it's all recruitment.
1:36:16
Yeah. No one.
1:36:17
The the chaplain corps doesn't really select any of us to come
1:36:20
to these units. Like I, I picked my successor
1:36:24
now they still got to go through a hiring process and and then my
1:36:28
team. I get to hire my own team, man.
1:36:31
I've got my team that I have right now.
1:36:33
God, they are the hardest. The hardest time of year that I
1:36:37
have is OER time because they're all #1 they're all, they're all
1:36:44
there's, they don't need me. I'm a manager.
1:36:50
That's it. Like they don't need me.
1:36:52
They're all better than me. Are they different nominations?
1:36:56
Are they all different? Like they're all you have to
1:36:59
ask? I get specific ones, I guess.
1:37:01
I don't know if that's a thing, but.
1:37:02
No, it doesn't matter. I mean, they but they come,
1:37:04
Yeah, I've got there. I don't have any priests, but
1:37:08
they're all some form of Christian denomination.
1:37:10
But I've got yeah, they span they, they span the spectrum,
1:37:14
but they're all phenomenal. I I knew.
1:37:16
I had most of my guys. I knew previously I've got two
1:37:20
guys here that worked for me and two other units.
1:37:22
I got two guys coming in here in a couple weeks.
1:37:25
One of them worked for me previously as well.
1:37:27
And so a lot of times it's, you know, it's word of mouth who you
1:37:30
know. And then if you have a gap that
1:37:32
you can't feel, you reach out to people that you trust to say,
1:37:34
hey, give me 3 guys that I could talk to.
1:37:37
And then you know, you, you know, it's got to be right
1:37:39
timing, right? It's got to be right timing
1:37:40
career wise. And then it's got to be the
1:37:43
right person because it's like a wedding.
1:37:45
It's like a marriage. You got to, you know, you can
1:37:48
have the right guy in the wrong unit and then they're both
1:37:51
miserable. You want the right guy in the
1:37:53
right unit, you know, And so that's that.
1:37:55
I, I think I do a pretty good job at manage and, and a pretty
1:37:57
good job at managing that. And then I just try to coach
1:38:01
where I need to coach or can coach.
1:38:02
And I've been really blessed. My guys that I have right now,
1:38:05
God, they're all of them are just, they're just freaking
1:38:09
great. Yeah.
1:38:11
I guess you're looking for quality more than you're looking
1:38:14
for good dudes. Like, yeah, I guess not all
1:38:16
chaplains are good dudes, I'm proud to say, but.
1:38:19
Or you just don't want to or they're weird.
1:38:21
Yeah, right. They're weird.
1:38:25
Like you're like, that's kind of weird, right?
1:38:28
Yeah. You know, you, they don't have
1:38:31
to drink a beer with you or or run a 50 mile with you.
1:38:35
Both of those things kind of help, but they don't got to do
1:38:38
that. But they also need to have some
1:38:39
emotional intelligence to be able to relate, right?
1:38:43
They need to be able to walk into a room and and and it not
1:38:47
be the EF Hutton. I don't know if you guys, I
1:38:48
don't know if you remember that commercial right, but you don't
1:38:51
want the Chapman to walk the room.
1:38:52
Everyone stops talking. Yeah.
1:38:54
Oh, no. What's he want?
1:38:55
You don't want that. Yeah, yeah.
1:38:58
Here's here's the command spy. Don't talk to him.
1:39:01
It's going to go straight to sort Major.
1:39:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's a
1:39:06
good point, right? It it's about it's being so you
1:39:11
know, the combination of the shared hardships they're getting
1:39:14
out there and and talking to them because a lot of you know,
1:39:19
some people, you know, most, most of our audience here that
1:39:23
that are that are going to listen to this right.
1:39:25
They've they've served in the military.
1:39:27
So they understand when we say that that weird chaplain.
1:39:32
But yeah, I mean, for for anybody that happens listen to
1:39:35
this that's not in the military and doesn't understand what
1:39:38
we're saying. I mean, you, you've got that
1:39:41
awkward Co worker that comes in and the minute they walk into
1:39:45
the room, everybody just kind of stops just like Bob's here.
1:39:51
OK, what? What's up Bob?
1:39:52
I don't know what's going on. Right.
1:39:56
And, and yeah, no, nobody wants to be around that person.
1:40:00
And as a, as a person of faith who's trying to help, you know,
1:40:03
with our spiritual guidance and, and you know, trying to help us
1:40:07
in that manner, you've got to be able to communicate, you've got
1:40:10
to be able to, to relate. With people and that's, that's
1:40:15
not always easy, unfortunately. I, I would, I would venture to
1:40:20
say a lot of people have not had or always had chaplains that
1:40:26
that could relate. Yeah, and I realized I'm, I
1:40:29
mean, I, I'm not everybody's cup of tea and I'm OK with that
1:40:33
back, you know, back in the Army just have to make us do all do
1:40:35
the 360 analysis After about the third time I did that, they they
1:40:39
never changed you. Know.
1:40:41
And but I'm OK with that. I'm a kind of a, you know, I'm a
1:40:45
John Maxwell guy. I don't focus on my weaknesses.
1:40:47
I if you'll strengthen your strengths, your weaknesses will
1:40:49
get stronger too. If you focus on your weaknesses,
1:40:52
your strengths get weaker. And so you know, I, I'm, I'm the
1:40:56
1st to tell you that I'm fully aware that I'm not everyone's
1:40:58
cup of tea. But you know what?
1:41:01
I, I know some really good dudes.
1:41:02
I know some really good chaplains out there that are
1:41:05
not, that are not built like me, but are also really good.
1:41:09
And they'll meet a need that I can't meet and I'll meet a need
1:41:11
that they can't meet. And a good team figures that
1:41:14
out, right? Like I, I don't need my, I
1:41:17
don't, I don't want my, I don't want my heart.
1:41:18
I don't care if my heart doctor is a good mechanic or not.
1:41:21
I don't know. Mechanic, be a good mechanic.
1:41:23
My heart doctor can be a good heart doctor.
1:41:24
So find the right person for the right fit.
1:41:27
Yeah, yeah. How do you, how do you, how do
1:41:30
you as a chaplain deal with some of the things that you hear
1:41:32
Charlie? Like how do I mean, some of the
1:41:33
stuff you probably over your career, some of it's probably
1:41:36
really rough stuff like the stuff that you don't, I don't
1:41:38
know, just bad shit happen to people.
1:41:41
Like how do how do you like deal with that?
1:41:45
Like, you know, you go home every night and you have to
1:41:46
think about that. Like what the soldiers been
1:41:48
chaplain. For the chaplain.
1:41:50
Yeah, I don't, I don't know, like.
1:41:52
I have a great marriage. I mean, my wife is my wife is,
1:41:57
she's the rock of Gibraltar for me.
1:41:59
She's, she is my you know, when I talk to, when I talk about
1:42:05
couples therapy or marriage coaching, I call it coaching.
1:42:10
I talk about what is intimacy? Intimacy.
1:42:13
People think that intimacy is sex.
1:42:14
Sex is sex. That's not intimacy.
1:42:16
It can be true intimacy. True intimacy is when you have
1:42:21
that one person or two people in your life that you can be
1:42:24
absolutely vulnerable with and never feel judged and never have
1:42:29
it used against you. And in God's Providence, we're
1:42:34
very blessed if we have that person in our life and, and
1:42:37
especially if it's our spouse. And for me, it is my wife.
1:42:40
And so I've, you know, sometimes and I'm just overwhelmed and
1:42:45
I've been overwhelmed. I've had some stuff that's, I
1:42:48
mean, after I start thinking back about some of the stuff
1:42:50
that some of the road you, you walk, you know, I mean, I've,
1:42:55
I've jokingly when I went to 7th group, I jokingly said to those
1:42:58
guys. When I left there, I said, Hey,
1:42:59
I want you guys to know that before I came here, I would have
1:43:02
told you guys that I've seen it all.
1:43:04
I said, well, I obviously had not.
1:43:07
So congratulations, you've raised the bar for me.
1:43:10
It's like being a chap on a pirate ship, you know, but it
1:43:13
what? But it wasn't just done there.
1:43:15
Whether it's death or suicide or crimes, you know, it's I, I
1:43:23
really, I, I genuinely believe in, in that our greatest value,
1:43:27
our greatest asset in the Army is that we have confidentiality.
1:43:32
And, and it's been taken to the Supreme Court and challenged and
1:43:35
our most people don't know this, but our confidentiality is
1:43:38
ironclad. There is nothing that I am
1:43:41
required to report on even a crime.
1:43:46
And it doesn't mean that there's not been some things that you
1:43:49
wish you could, Right. But that confidentiality comes
1:43:55
with a burden. And the burden is that it's only
1:43:57
as it's only as strong and as good as you are at keeping it.
1:44:03
Yeah. And so sometimes I, I had a
1:44:05
commander once that came in to ask me a question about
1:44:07
something going on with the soldier.
1:44:09
They said, hey, I know you know what's going on and what's going
1:44:10
on. And I was like, I don't know
1:44:12
what you're talking about. He's like, I know, you know.
1:44:13
And I said, I said, well, I said, I'll tell you what I do
1:44:16
know, but I can't tell you. And he said, I know you have
1:44:20
confidentiality. And I said that's not why I
1:44:22
can't tell you. You're right.
1:44:23
I have confidentiality. I can't tell you.
1:44:24
That ain't the real reason. I can't tell you.
1:44:26
He said, well, what's the real reason?
1:44:28
I said, because you need to know that if you ever need to trust
1:44:32
me, I will protect your secrets too.
1:44:35
And if I won't protect your soldiers secrets from you, then
1:44:38
you have no confidence that I'm protecting your secrets from
1:44:41
your boss. And he said, yeah, you're right.
1:44:45
That's pretty good. So I won't ask that.
1:44:47
Yeah. So how do you deal with it?
1:44:49
I deal with it. I've dealt.
1:44:54
I've dealt with most. Yeah.
1:44:56
I've dealt with it through exercise.
1:44:57
I've dealt with it through I had an injury.
1:44:59
I got injured last fall pretty badly and I had to take five
1:45:04
months off from running and I found myself like spiraling.
1:45:09
And so I, I, I bought a Wahoo trainer and I put my road bike
1:45:13
on it and I spent the winter riding.
1:45:16
And but the problem is with that is that is that I realized that
1:45:20
I got to find a better way at deloading because that's become
1:45:25
almost like an addiction for me. And if I don't get it, then I
1:45:29
find myself like I'll find myself spinning.
1:45:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only reason I ask that try
1:45:35
is because I just all the chaplains, I know they're always
1:45:37
put in tough spots, man. You got like you got to deal
1:45:40
with the memorial ceremonies or they got to be the duty
1:45:43
chaplain. It has to do the notification.
1:45:45
Like, you know, that's that's why I mean, it's always there.
1:45:49
I just how do you deal with that kind of thing?
1:45:50
That's what just came in my head.
1:45:51
But yeah, I don't know. It's also I, I also think too
1:45:57
that God, I think that I think that I mean, I, I believe in a
1:46:02
calling and I believe in an equipping and, and I've, I mean,
1:46:08
I've got some scars, but for the most part, I also believe that
1:46:12
God called me and equipped me to do it.
1:46:15
And if not me, then who? Yeah.
1:46:18
You know. Yeah, So what's next for
1:46:21
Charlie? Did they dial me?
1:46:27
Hold on dude. Did they dial for me?
1:46:29
Rick, can you hear? Me.
1:46:30
OK, there we go. What's next for me?
1:46:33
I don't know. We put everything in storage in
1:46:37
July and we're going to spend about six or seven months just
1:46:41
traveling. We don't owe anything.
1:46:44
We don't own anything other than our household goods and two cars
1:46:48
and a big old hairy dog. And so we're going to go, we're
1:46:53
going to do a big road trip. We're going to go see some
1:46:55
things that we've always wanted to see and haven't seen.
1:46:57
I want, I want to see, I want my wife to see Utah, northern Utah.
1:47:01
It's beautiful. We're going to go to Idaho.
1:47:04
I want to see, I want to see Yellowstone, Yosemite, the
1:47:09
Sequoias. My son in I'm, I'm really
1:47:16
blessed to have just a great son-in-law who's got a great
1:47:19
family. So we're going to go see his
1:47:21
parents out in Portland and, and then try to figure out where we
1:47:25
want to live. It's funny is that my wife and
1:47:28
I, our weekend pastime right now is iPad in hand and we're both
1:47:35
on Zillow. But we are like schizophrenic.
1:47:39
Like she'll send me a house in Florida in St.
1:47:43
Petersburg, FL for my best friend Liz.
1:47:45
That's why I'm in Tampa. And I may be down there by you.
1:47:50
I'm not in Tampa. I'm in.
1:47:51
I'm in Largo, right next to Saint Pete.
1:47:53
So yeah, Largo, I'm looking at houses in Largo.
1:47:55
It's great. It's.
1:47:56
Amazing. And Sumpton Springs, Yeah.
1:47:59
Tarpon Springs, Tarpon Springs, Tarpon Springs, Yeah, yeah.
1:48:02
And then I'm looking up in northern Idaho, in the Panhandle
1:48:07
and North Carolina and we're all over the place.
1:48:09
It's. Beautiful up in northern Idaho
1:48:12
there. Never been.
1:48:13
I'm going to go check it out. So we're just going to.
1:48:16
Do you think you're going to carry on doing what you're doing
1:48:18
like you're going to go back into doing?
1:48:21
I'm going to do something. I get, I mean, my, I do
1:48:25
genuinely find my greatest joy in helping people.
1:48:28
And, and I like to, I like to do projects in the sense that when
1:48:34
I was at the church that we attended, when I was in my
1:48:36
career course in South Carolina, it's a great church in Colombia.
1:48:41
Once a month, the men would get together and we would go do a
1:48:43
service project somewhere in a, in a, in a, you know, an
1:48:47
underprivileged home or community, you know, and I just,
1:48:51
I love doing that kind of stuff. I love just helping, helping
1:48:54
people. And so we'll figure, we'll
1:48:57
figure something out. I got to figure out where I'm
1:48:59
going to live and and then we'll figure something out.
1:49:01
Yeah, just take your time, Charlie.
1:49:03
I, I kind of rushed my part getting out.
1:49:05
Just take your time at night, take advantage like what you
1:49:07
were doing before. Just go see stuff and don't
1:49:09
settle down too quick man 'cause.
1:49:11
You don't. Want to get locked into things
1:49:13
And yeah. One of the different, our
1:49:16
majors, our star major, one of our star majors that retired
1:49:19
here. I just saw him this past week
1:49:22
had a change of command and I said, hey man, how you doing?
1:49:24
And he said exactly what you just said.
1:49:26
He said man, he said I he said I should have taken a break.
1:49:29
He said I needed to deload and I didn't.
1:49:31
And he said I feel, I feel like I'm, he said I'm making great
1:49:34
money. But he said I, he said I just
1:49:36
felt overwhelmed. Yeah, that's exactly how I feel
1:49:39
right now. Like I'm just, I'm making great
1:49:40
money, got a great job living in Tampa down or down here in
1:49:44
Florida. But, you know, I, I, you know, I
1:49:46
should have took that little bit of break and, and just spend
1:49:51
some time with the wife and stuff to kind of downgrade a
1:49:54
little bit because you're still like, you know, I'm fresh coming
1:49:56
out of the Army. So, yeah, just enjoy it for a
1:49:59
little bit, man. And don't get, I mean, that's,
1:50:00
that's what I would recommend to everybody.
1:50:02
Just take some time, you know. So Chris, you're here, you'll be
1:50:06
doing this soon too, man, if you go 100 mph every day, so.
1:50:10
We're blessed with both of our kids are empty nesters.
1:50:13
And so I mean, they're, you know, they're launched son,
1:50:16
son-in-law and daughter and my son's, you know, in school.
1:50:19
And so we're going to that's the plan.
1:50:21
The plan right now is, is we're just going to, I'm going to do
1:50:25
Airbnb, VRBO, I'm just going to wing it like.
1:50:29
Yeah. Yeah.
1:50:32
I think I think people got to understand too, like it's not
1:50:35
over, like your service is over, but like all your friendships
1:50:40
are still there. Like, you know, it's everybody.
1:50:42
You can still reach out to anybody.
1:50:44
Like I mean, it's still there. I mean, you know, you can still
1:50:48
call somebody. You're still around.
1:50:49
You're just not. You're not wearing the suit
1:50:51
anymore, so. I get phone calls, I get phone
1:50:56
calls, text messages. I get I get people that reach
1:50:59
out to me. I mean, multiple times a month
1:51:02
that I've served with, I mean, 15-16 years ago.
1:51:07
Sometimes I have to be like, I have to be coil because I don't
1:51:10
want to say I don't remember you.
1:51:12
So help me again where you know, where you at?
1:51:15
You know, I'm not at the same time, I'm researching frantic
1:51:17
thing online. Oh, yeah.
1:51:18
All right. I remember that is then, yeah.
1:51:21
So you got inducted in the RTB Hall of Fame, right?
1:51:25
How was that distinguished member of the board?
1:51:27
Distinguished member of the board.
1:51:28
How? How was that?
1:51:29
How was that? I'm going to tell you I'm, I
1:51:33
feel, I mean, I mean, good night.
1:51:35
I'm it was great. Yeah.
1:51:38
It was great. I'm there's only two other
1:51:40
chaplains, Pat Hash and Jeff Struker.
1:51:43
And Pat Hash was the first chaplain at at Delta.
1:51:47
Pat was the user sock chaplain. When I got to Fort Bragg, he was
1:51:50
in O6HE used to sock chaplain. He wanted to he wanted to
1:51:52
interview all the new chaplains. He called me up and he's the
1:51:56
long retired Nick. He goes, he goes Charlie, He
1:51:58
said, I see that you were in 3rd Ranger Battalion back in the
1:52:00
80s. I said yes, Sir.
1:52:01
He said, who was your chaplain? And I said, I'll be honest with
1:52:05
you. I don't think we had a chaplain.
1:52:06
I don't ever remember seeing a chaplain.
1:52:08
And he goes, I was your chaplain and I said the phone, I don't
1:52:12
remember seeing you one time. That's not true, you know, I
1:52:16
don't know if it's true or not, you know.
1:52:18
But he was at he was the first chaplain in in Delta and then
1:52:23
retired as the O 6. And he and Jeff Struker were
1:52:26
inducted together three years ago.
1:52:28
And then now I'm the third chaplain to go in.
1:52:30
Stuker. Is that how you say his name?
1:52:33
He's the Struker. Struker.
1:52:34
He was the Black Hawk Down chaplain, right?
1:52:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeff was, he was an NCO then and
1:52:40
then he transitioned and became a chaplain and then he retired
1:52:43
in 2010. I think he retired in 2010.
1:52:46
OK. Sweet that's you guys are a
1:52:51
small community anyway so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:52:54
It's a second, Sir. I just said that's a pretty big
1:52:57
honor. Yeah, it was.
1:52:59
I was very surprised that 4th Battalion CSM is also a really
1:53:03
good friend. He's the one that made that
1:53:05
happen. He's the one that submitted me
1:53:06
named Dan, Dan Heflin. Remember, Dan?
1:53:09
No, you don't know Dan. Dan was with me in the 173rd,
1:53:12
but Dan spent like 15 years in 10th Mountain Division.
1:53:16
He was a wheeled mechanic, became an 11B, became an
1:53:19
airborne Ranger, and then he came to Italy to become a first
1:53:22
Sergeant. Dan Heflin.
1:53:24
The name is. Familiar.
1:53:26
He's a great dude, man. Damn.
1:53:27
It's just a good dude as well. He called me and said, hey, can
1:53:30
you send me your bio? I want to, I want to submit you
1:53:32
to something. And I said, well, what do you
1:53:33
want to submit me to? Because I'm, he says I'm going
1:53:37
to try to submit you for the distinguishment of the board.
1:53:38
I was like, dude, I'm going to Chaplin.
1:53:39
I'm not getting any of that. He's like, just give me your
1:53:41
stuff. And so then he called me up.
1:53:43
He said, hey, dude, you're in. And I was like, you got to be.
1:53:45
I am so surprised, you know, and it was, it was for me again,
1:53:50
it's like walking through history because where Rangers
1:53:53
school is right now was my second home for 3rd Ranger
1:53:58
Battalion. And so in 1984 when I got to
1:54:02
reception station, it was where Ranger School is now.
1:54:04
That was reception station. I go to basic and AIT at Harmony
1:54:08
Church, I go to Airborne, I go to RIP 3rd Ranger Battalion in
1:54:11
Sandhill. And then we moved where Ranger
1:54:14
School is now and we're there for a couple of years and then
1:54:17
it moved down to lost Army Airfield.
1:54:20
And so I'm walking through and back then it was, there was no,
1:54:23
it wasn't 4th Battalion, it was companies.
1:54:26
And I'm walking through looking at the history and Oh my God,
1:54:30
I'm like, man, I worked with, I served with him, I served with
1:54:33
him, I served with him. And you know, of course Dan is
1:54:36
like, for God's sakes, dude, were you and George Washington's
1:54:38
Army do? You know, do you know, do you
1:54:41
know Tony Maine? No.
1:54:44
He's a gallant. I think he's gallant.
1:54:45
Few is part of a Ranger so should say something like that
1:54:48
in there. Ex Ranger guy.
1:54:51
Oh, hold on one second. I think why the store looms.
1:54:58
Did I have the store locked? The dog is locked.
1:55:01
I think I had the door locked. I'm sorry.
1:55:06
I know I'm off camera. Here.
1:55:08
No worries man, my dog was over there barking earlier.
1:55:13
Stop bar. You've been to any of the best
1:55:20
Ranger competitions. Did you go this year or did you
1:55:22
try to? I went there.
1:55:24
I've been there for three or four.
1:55:26
I took my son up in 2014 before we went to Italy.
1:55:29
He wanted to see and then I I've been, I've been for three or
1:55:34
four of them. We had our team compete this
1:55:37
year. Trenton was on there talking
1:55:38
about how been planning that thing and like what they want to
1:55:41
do and the how like the random things that they thought think
1:55:44
about like hey, we're going to put them on boats and then shoot
1:55:47
whatever or horses or. This year they were trying to
1:55:51
shoot down drones. Yeah, I know.
1:55:53
Like it's, it's crazy. Like, but he was talking about
1:55:57
like. They shot the 50 caliber cap and
1:55:59
ball rifles, you know. Yeah, like it.
1:56:01
Yeah, it's fun. It's it's yeah, it's crazy.
1:56:04
He was telling me the amount of like firearms that those guys
1:56:06
get, man, like this, they contribute to the, you know, you
1:56:09
want your firearm to be part of Best Ranger cause those are the
1:56:12
best of the best in the Army and you know, probably the whole
1:56:14
world like those guys. But man, like 'cause I 'cause I
1:56:18
know you said that you did Best Ranger back in the days.
1:56:21
Too. So it was different then.
1:56:23
It's yeah, everything has gotten, everything has gotten
1:56:26
bigger and faster and like, I, I mean, it's, it's crazy how it is
1:56:31
now. Hey, I was.
1:56:33
To go to range and regiment now RASP is 8 weeks.
1:56:35
When I went it was just three weeks of getting your butt
1:56:37
kicked and now it's 8 weeks. For these kids, 8 weeks.
1:56:43
I think regiment's so self-sustaining now too.
1:56:46
They're huge. I think they got so many
1:56:47
different capabilities coming out of that organization, from
1:56:50
dog handlers to long range of chronicy guys to snipers to.
1:56:56
It's insane, man, about what if someone would just read into
1:56:58
that and find out like you'd be really like surprised at what
1:57:02
they can do. They can just kill anything on
1:57:04
that planet. Pretty badasses, dude.
1:57:07
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know,
1:57:09
I I think the best Ranger guys, I think I look at them are just
1:57:12
athletes. They're just, and it's
1:57:14
incredible because and, and seeing the winners this year for
1:57:17
me as an enlisted, especially as a star major, seeing a
1:57:19
specialist and a Sergeant win, it is like.
1:57:21
Isn't that awesome? That is like to me, I was so
1:57:24
proud. I don't even know the kids and
1:57:26
I'm like, man, those kids went in there, you know, I'm sure
1:57:30
they they're a little trained up a little bit on things coming
1:57:32
for regiment, but it was talking to Trenton about it.
1:57:35
I was like, if anybody has pressure to do well, it's those
1:57:39
guys 'cause they come from that place, you know?
1:57:41
So to have a Sergeant and a specialist win that like.
1:57:45
Yeah. That's pretty bad.
1:57:46
Ass Dude and E45 have been in the Army for three years or.
1:57:49
Right, I know it should be 5 here soon like these.
1:57:52
That's right. I would hope so anyway.
1:57:53
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
1:57:56
But yeah, I don't know. You got any advice out there for
1:57:59
anybody, Charlie, that's still serving or getting ready to
1:58:02
transition out or any new chaplains you know, that are
1:58:04
doing their thing that might watch this or something?
1:58:07
Yeah, guys, the guys that are serving that are leaders, man,
1:58:10
is just don't, don't ever, don't, don't undervalue the
1:58:14
impact of caring for your soldiers like, like the soldier
1:58:20
that's, that's, that's awkward or you know, that's, that's
1:58:25
struggling. And sometimes, sometimes just a
1:58:28
little bit of a positive affirmation and attention.
1:58:31
You have no idea that you may, you may be the very first person
1:58:35
in their life that's ever showed care for them.
1:58:40
The, the Army does draw a lot of people from backgrounds who the
1:58:44
Army is an escape for them in a good way.
1:58:46
It's an opportunity for them to, to have a place to live and, and
1:58:50
to make a wage and to put forward retirement, to have
1:58:53
medical and all of that stuff, right.
1:58:54
But we, we have a lot of folks to come in the Army and they
1:58:57
didn't have a positive figure in their life.
1:58:59
And so try to think about that when you see that one soldier
1:59:03
that's maybe not doing as well as you think they should or
1:59:06
could. And, and you, you might be
1:59:09
surprised at the difference that you can make in someone's life.
1:59:12
I think all three of us can name people that made that difference
1:59:15
for us, for chaplains that are coming in.
1:59:17
You know, I tell, I, I mean, I, I say this, I've said this, I've
1:59:21
said this for 20 years, right? And I, I just had this
1:59:23
conversation with a group of chaplains in my office the other
1:59:25
day. I said I got 3 big rules for
1:59:28
chaplains #1 is don't be fat. There's no, I'm, I'm sorry, but
1:59:32
if you're in the Army, don't be a fat chaplain, right, right.
1:59:36
Be get yourself in shape because you know, you know who has the
1:59:38
most flexible PT hours? The chaplain.
1:59:42
No one expect no one's looking for you in APT formation in the
1:59:45
sense of like counting noses. You know, if you take off early
1:59:49
to do PT, no one's going to question that.
1:59:51
They're going to respect that. No one has more has has more
1:59:54
resources to be physically fit than the chaplain.
1:59:58
So get yourself in shape. You don't got to be an ultra
2:00:00
marathoner. You don't got to deadlift 500
2:00:02
lbs, but but you can't if you can't hang, you can.
2:00:06
If you got to yell slow down, wait on me.
2:00:10
You're you're losing. So number one is, is be fit.
2:00:13
Number 2 is be is. Know your trade.
2:00:16
Know your trade. Like, like no one should know
2:00:19
your trade better than you, the commander should.
2:00:22
You shouldn't be taking problems to commanders.
2:00:24
You should be taking problems with courses of action
2:00:27
solutions. All you should be giving to the
2:00:30
commander is a decision brief. Hey Sir, this is what's going
2:00:32
on. Here's two or three ways we can
2:00:34
solve. This is what I recommend and why
2:00:37
9 out of 10 * 9.9 out of 10 times, they're going to be like,
2:00:40
hey, that sounds great. Go, go, you know, go do that.
2:00:42
You're solving a problem because commanders, they've got more
2:00:45
crap to do than solve your problems for you, right?
2:00:48
So be fit, know your trade and #3 is be relatable.
2:00:53
Don't just don't, don't be awkward.
2:00:57
You know, you know if you're awkward or not, sometimes you
2:01:00
can't fix it. Do the best that you can to just
2:01:03
be just be a good dude, man. By that I mean be someone that
2:01:07
guys can talk to. Like, you know, you can't be so
2:01:10
high and mighty. Don't love Jesus so much that
2:01:12
you turned people off of Jesus, if that can be understood
2:01:16
correctly, Right. I'm being I don't be the kind of
2:01:19
person that your piety is so is so high and mighty that the guy
2:01:23
who's struggling for for to give some girl $500 because he
2:01:26
masturbated on camera in front of her doesn't feel like he can
2:01:29
come and talk to you, you know? Yeah, like I can see the relief
2:01:34
on that kids face when I when I wasn't sure you did what?
2:01:37
Dude, no one. You're 19 on a surprise.
2:01:42
Early. I'm just glad you didn't tell
2:01:43
everybody it was me that came to talk to you about that.
2:01:45
I appreciate. It I wasn't going to tell anyone
2:01:47
but Chris that. You, Chris, I think we had AI
2:01:50
think we had a one of those cases in our battalion.
2:01:52
Oh, yeah, yeah, No, I remember I.
2:01:55
Don't know what they were doing this would do social media and
2:01:57
all the phones as I don't know man but.
2:02:00
Yeah. Did you, when you're out in the
2:02:03
field and stuff, Charlie, do you do chaplains?
2:02:05
Do they have a recommendation on services right?
2:02:08
Like is do you have to just say, hey, like, you know, Sir, take
2:02:11
some time on this day to break away and get the guys?
2:02:14
Yeah. It doesn't have to be on Sunday,
2:02:16
it can be any day of the week. Yeah.
2:02:18
I, I, I like that's, that's how you have to kind of approach
2:02:21
that a little bit. I don't know, I'm just asking.
2:02:23
Yeah, yeah. I just, I say, hey, Sir, could
2:02:26
you know it's can I get the guys together that have faith to have
2:02:29
a a short service? It doesn't going to be an hour
2:02:31
long. It doesn't got to involve a
2:02:33
piano in singing. It's about practicing our faith.
2:02:36
Sometimes it just means coming together.
2:02:37
I'm not a singer. I don't play an instrument.
2:02:40
I play Spotify, but I don't play an instrument.
2:02:42
Right. So it's just it's getting the
2:02:44
guys to come together. If you sure pass the scripture
2:02:47
and pray with them, then you know, that's that goes a long
2:02:51
way. Yeah, Yeah.
2:02:53
I think it's important, man, because like some of the guys,
2:02:55
the weight in today's world, it's kind of hard to, you know,
2:02:58
say that I have faith. It's kind of kind of look down
2:03:01
sometimes I think like it's hard to come out and say I'm
2:03:03
faithful, right? So to have a chaplain that kind
2:03:07
of pushes that kind of like not pushes it, but kind of support
2:03:09
like gets out there and helps you kind of like practice what
2:03:12
you want to do and you know, practice your faith is awesome.
2:03:16
I just gave us, I just talked a couple.
2:03:18
I don't know, a week or two ago I was talking and I said, hey, I
2:03:21
said listen man. I said God, if I've got 2 tools
2:03:25
in front of me, if I have a, if I have a knife and a
2:03:28
screwdriver, it's two different tools.
2:03:31
Which one is the better tool? It depends on the job because I
2:03:36
don't want to use a knife like a screwdriver and a screwdriver
2:03:38
like a knife. Can I can I screw something with
2:03:41
my mic. I can I'm probably going to
2:03:42
break it and I cut something with a screwdriver.
2:03:45
I probably can a little bit. My wife is my mom is happy if
2:03:50
you can hear him. So when it comes to when it
2:03:53
comes to to, to who you are, you got to you got to be comfortable
2:03:57
in who you are and recognize that God made you the way that
2:04:01
you are. And, you know, I spent a lot of
2:04:04
time initially when I came to my own faith in Christ, trying to
2:04:07
like ask God to remake me like I'd see other Christian men and
2:04:11
I would think I'm not like that. And I came to realize that God
2:04:15
made me who I am and he and I'm more of a hammer than I am a,
2:04:20
you know, I don't know, a paintbrush.
2:04:23
And I found that I've been, I've done pretty well relating to I
2:04:27
stayed operational my whole career because that's where I'm
2:04:29
the most comfortable. I'm comfortable in chaos.
2:04:32
I'm comfortable with violence. I'm comfortable with risk.
2:04:36
Some guys aren't. That's OK.
2:04:38
We have, we need chaplains who are comfortable in the
2:04:40
hospitals. We need chaplains who are
2:04:42
comfortable, you know, with what, what with you know, you
2:04:46
fill in the blank. I don't want to pick, pick
2:04:48
something I don't want to. You got to figure out what your,
2:04:51
what your strength is, man, and play to your strength.
2:04:54
And for me, you know, I just like, you know, I like going 100
2:04:57
mile off my hair on fire. Yeah.
2:05:00
And telling people about Jesus. Yeah.
2:05:02
What was some of the the, there's some new changes to you
2:05:04
guys, right? Isn't there like a change that
2:05:07
they did with rank or? They haven't.
2:05:10
They haven't answered it yet. They haven't told us.
2:05:13
They're supposed to come out I think in the next week or two.
2:05:16
Hag Seth the Second War just said that he wanted us to take
2:05:20
our rank off and just wear our Insignia and I'm fine with that.
2:05:23
I'm I'm fine with that. I mean, my rank is in
2:05:26
parentheses anyway. It's my pay grade, right I'm.
2:05:30
Fine with that. I think it'd be it's a
2:05:31
distraction sometime to some young guys too.
2:05:33
Like he's Lieutenant Colonel, you know?
2:05:35
It's like they don't see him as a chaplain, you know?
2:05:38
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
2:05:40
I mean, yeah, the rank thing doesn't.
2:05:43
There's going to be if people are upset about taking the rank
2:05:45
off their uniform in what for what we do, then you're probably
2:05:49
in it for the wrong reason. Yeah.
2:05:52
It's the same thing with doctors.
2:05:53
I I mean, I think doctors could take their rank off too.
2:05:56
I had an eye exam the other day, Fort Belvoir and the doctor, you
2:05:59
know this, I've got this guy give me an eye exam.
2:06:02
And I thought he was a civilian and he turned around with his
2:06:04
white shirt on. He's a full bird.
2:06:06
Colonel, I said, damn, you must be shorthanded if you're giving
2:06:09
me an eye exam. You're an O 6 giving me an, I
2:06:13
said. Do you still know how to work
2:06:14
this stuff? Yeah, jeez, yeah.
2:06:19
That's it. I think they've just taken the
2:06:20
rank off the uniform and I think it's just going to be in the
2:06:23
Ocps. I think they'll keep their rank
2:06:25
in their dress uniform. Yeah, I support it.
2:06:27
I think it's a good idea. Yeah, but I don't care about
2:06:29
that, man. I just want to be around.
2:06:31
I just want to, man. I just want to love the soldiers
2:06:34
and, you know, get out there and get after it.
2:06:37
Yeah. All right, Charlie, is there
2:06:39
anything you want to we forgot that you kind of wanted to talk
2:06:41
through or is there anything that.
2:06:43
Yeah, I. Don't think so.
2:06:43
You mentioned retirement. You know, you got, you could
2:06:46
speak to us about retirement. You've been through it.
2:06:48
I'm in the process of going through it.
2:06:50
Chris, it looks like it's coming up for you.
2:06:52
The only thing I would say that I've learned is take good notes.
2:06:55
Don't skip the classes. Go to the classes, you know, ask
2:06:59
the questions I have. I took really good notes and,
2:07:03
and, and I had to take really good notes because my wife is
2:07:05
going to ask me 100 questions and I can't say, I don't know,
2:07:08
but maybe once she going to make me go back and retake the class,
2:07:13
yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know, I think
2:07:15
it's good having a VSO in there, man.
2:07:17
But yeah, I've done a lot of this stuff from dealing with
2:07:20
social media, Charlie. And so I've talked a lot of
2:07:22
veterans. So there's a guy that we do
2:07:25
podcast with, he's does the Jiwok Goons podcast.
2:07:27
He was on our last episode, but we did a live and there's so
2:07:31
many veterans, man, that don't know the process.
2:07:33
Like they didn't know about the VS OS, They didn't know about
2:07:35
all that stuff because the guy was like, I don't how do I do a
2:07:37
claim? You know, I was like, shit, you
2:07:39
know, like you got to find a VSO.
2:07:40
There's different and don't pay for a VSO.
2:07:43
Don't pay every states, every Department of Veterans Affairs
2:07:46
for the state they have VS OS and they work for you.
2:07:49
Yeah, yeah. Go to three Rangers or go to
2:07:53
Care Coalition like you don't, don't pay for a VSO.
2:07:57
Go find there's, there's a there's enough out there.
2:08:01
You know, there's the VA. the VA wants to help you.
2:08:04
What I have found with my wife working for the VA, the VA wants
2:08:07
to help you man. They do.
2:08:09
I've had pretty good experiences with the VA.
2:08:10
I've I've got a pretty, if you come down here, Charlie, we have
2:08:14
a pretty big VA hospital down here in Saint Pete.
2:08:16
So like it's. Yeah, my buddy.
2:08:18
My buddy lives in Saint Pete Beach.
2:08:20
He goes to the same VA he. Loves it.
2:08:23
It's awesome. I've had no, I mean, I've done a
2:08:25
couple dental things. It is what it is, but overall,
2:08:28
like it's been great. I've had no issues with the VA.
2:08:31
You know, they're still like calling me about checking on me,
2:08:35
you know about how I'm doing now and like, because they call you,
2:08:38
they they do those time where they every six months or
2:08:40
whatever. I don't remember what they'll
2:08:41
they'll call you. But hey, how you doing?
2:08:43
You know, all that kind of stuff and stuff like that.
2:08:46
So I guess it's all about people's experiences or not, but
2:08:50
it's. Not I'm coming, brother.
2:08:51
I'm coming. I'm going to be there with you
2:08:52
soon. Well, if you come down this, we
2:08:54
got to link up man. I'm I'm talking to a realtor in
2:08:57
that area now named Rebecca Collins.
2:08:58
Like she sends me an e-mail every night.
2:09:00
I just got just came in the list of houses so.
2:09:03
If you stayed in Tarpon Springs, Dunedin area up there, I mean,
2:09:05
it's great. Come a little bit S Saint Pete,
2:09:07
it's a little bit more expensive, but yeah, it's.
2:09:10
Just very nice. All right, Charlie, I mean,
2:09:12
we're at two hours here. Hey, man, I get I'll let Chris
2:09:17
get the last word like battalion commander does, but I appreciate
2:09:21
it. You didn't have to do this to
2:09:23
come on and and just be yes with us.
2:09:26
You know, it's it's awesome hearing hearing your story and,
2:09:29
you know, hearing the other things that you dealt with as a
2:09:30
chaplain. There's not a lot of chaplain
2:09:33
perspectives out there. And I think it's, it's good that
2:09:35
I think this is, I hope you get a lot of people come in
2:09:38
listening to us. This is a good one, man.
2:09:40
And, and I appreciate you doing what you're doing.
2:09:42
And I appreciate you being just being a good human being, man.
2:09:45
So I stalk you on Facebook, I watch what you're doing, all
2:09:48
that kind of stuff. And you know, all I got to say
2:09:51
is an old veteran as I'm, I'm proud of what you're doing.
2:09:53
I'm proud of you, man. So and I wish you and the family
2:09:57
the best of luck. In the future, thank you,
2:10:01
brother. I appreciate that.
2:10:02
Thank you, Christian. Yeah, Charlie, it, it's, it's
2:10:04
been great catching up with you. Honestly, you're, you're one of
2:10:08
one of our favorite chaplains of all time up there in 10th
2:10:11
Fountain. And I yeah, I can't wait till
2:10:16
you move down to Saint Pete, because that's where my daughter
2:10:19
is. That's where Jerry is.
2:10:20
So I'm sure I'll get. That's awesome.
2:10:24
And yeah, don't be a stranger, man.
2:10:26
Good luck to you. You've been awesome all.
2:10:29
Right guys. Thank you guys.
2:10:30
God bless you guys all. Right, take care guys.
2:10:33
Talk to you later this this episode we posted this week.
2:10:36
See ya. Bye.