Latest / Draw Me Anything with Jason Chatfield / Asher Perlman & The Art of Eugene

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Asher Perlman & The Art of Eugene · Draw Me Anything with Jason Chatfield

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have 30 people.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right, welcome to another edition of Draw Me Anything.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is episode 26.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This week,
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  SPEAKER_00: I have a very special guest,
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  SPEAKER_00: someone I've wanted on for a long time,
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  SPEAKER_00: one of my favorite New Yorker cartoonists.
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  He's also a WGA Writers Guild of America Award winner,
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  Peabody Award winner.
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  He's a fellow New Yorker cartoonist and writer for The Late
• 0:24
  Show with Stephen Colbert.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: and has just joined us on Substack.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's only just started his own Substack.
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  And if there's anyone that ought to be sharing their work on
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  Substack,
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  it's LSJ Rosen.
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  SPEAKER_00: But if there's someone else, it's SJ Perelman's corpse.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's one more person...
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  SPEAKER_00: It is the one and only Asher Perlman.
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  SPEAKER_00: Asher, welcome to Draw Me Anything.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hi.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: My one intention for this is to get Alice Rosen to draw a Substack idea.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: For those of you who don't know Ellis J.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Rosen,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: fellow New Yorker cartoonist,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: he might be the last cartoonist who's not on Substack,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: which is pretty fun.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great cartoonist.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: He has a newsletter.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And today, he mentioned that he might think about switching.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's anything we accomplished tonight, it should be that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's number one goal.
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  so congratulations first of all you have a new book out finally
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  uh you have a
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  second follow-up book to your first book which was well this is
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  me and it's called
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  hi it's me again um uh congrats that was this week that just
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  came out right
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  SPEAKER_00: yesterday
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Tuesday.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to see?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have a copy of it with me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I want to see it.
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  SPEAKER_00: Show us all the copy.
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  SPEAKER_00: Everyone go and buy it on wherever you buy books, obviously.
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  You have the big launch tomorrow night at the Bell House in
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  Brooklyn,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: What's happening with that?
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  SPEAKER_00: Who's there?
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  SPEAKER_00: Who's going to be there?
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  SPEAKER_01: Launch is really good.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of doing a similar format I had last time.
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  SPEAKER_01: So basically, I have my friends come and do...
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  comedy and then i'll sit in conversation so i have uh gary
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  gullman who's one of my
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  favorite stand-ups and also an incredible basketball player and
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  um steve valtine
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  who's one of my favorite comedians not as good at basketball um
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  aaron jackson and
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  yeah a few a few people doing comedy and then i'll do a
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  conversation and um and i
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  SPEAKER_01: had temporary tattoos made that i'm going to hand out to people
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  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to get, are they of Eugene?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Can we talk about Eugene for a minute for anyone who doesn't know,
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  SPEAKER_00: who hasn't ever seen an Asher Perlman cartoon?
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  SPEAKER_00: How the hell did Eugene come into this world?
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  He's just kind of the first got purse character that I drew
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  more than once.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because, I mean, you know this from doing New Yorker cartoons.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's not,
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  SPEAKER_01: you sort of just,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  there's not really like a recurring cast of characters with the
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  two exceptions.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like obviously Charles Adams had his family.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like,
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  SPEAKER_01: who's the person who always does the same couple in the,
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  SPEAKER_01: is that Victoria Roberts or who is that?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Victoria Roberts has the same couple.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think Maslin sometimes has a similar couple.
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  SPEAKER_00: I know Roz has a few characters she repeats sometimes.
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't guess.
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  okay well this is he was just the first the only character i
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  ever had that i drew
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  more than once and i liked drawing him and uh he sort of took
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  on a life of his own
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  i guess yeah i feel like do you have a giant cardboard cut out
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  of him somewhere
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  SPEAKER_01: jason not only do i have it somewhere it's accessible oh my god
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  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, Eugene.
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  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_01: I really should throw that away, but I can't bring my time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, you shouldn't.
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  SPEAKER_00: Never throw that away.
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  SPEAKER_00: Do you sleep with that?
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  SPEAKER_01: Is that... Yeah, I cuddle up on it every night.
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  You know my theory about this,
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  though,
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  which is because I didn't start in...
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  SPEAKER_01: I came up through sketch and improv, which is not a solo activity.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think drawing is a solo activity,
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  and that's harder for me because I'm so used to collaborating
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  with people.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think on a subconscious level,
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  SPEAKER_01: I created a character to be sort of my collaborator,
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  SPEAKER_01: to sort of imitate the feeling of being in a writer's room,
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  SPEAKER_01: in a group,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: You've always, because you came up through Chicago Improv?
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  yeah i majored in i did a little bit of improv in high school
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  and then yeah i did
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  theater in high in college and then after college i moved to
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  chicago and did the
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  whole second city io i know all that stuff yeah yeah yeah and
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  that has kind of
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  informed your process as far as writing and and writing on
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  colbert and and you know
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  SPEAKER_01: comedy and in general i think so yeah i feel like you're the
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  the basic tenets of improv has sort of stayed with me
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  throughout all the different,
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  SPEAKER_01: all the different iterations of my creative work.
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  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: So are you sort of more of the Del Clause school of,
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  SPEAKER_00: of,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  are you a real second city acolyte or do you just sort of have
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  your own open,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: source version of,
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  SPEAKER_00: of what you pick and choose from,
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  SPEAKER_00: from the different improvisational kind of,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: song book styles?
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  SPEAKER_01: I think I always picked... Yeah, I guess I'd pick and choose.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  I also think that there's less of a bright line between the
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  schools of improv than
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  SPEAKER_01: maybe there once was.
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  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I first moved to New York,
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  SPEAKER_01: people talked about,
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  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's UCB style versus IO style and...
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  SPEAKER_01: Groundlings.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that they're definitely started that way,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not sure those...
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel like so many people...
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  SPEAKER_01: Back in the day,
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  SPEAKER_01: you would kind of perform at one theater.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was your home theater.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think now,
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  SPEAKER_01: since everyone double dips,
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  SPEAKER_01: triple dips,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think there's less of a...
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to speak with authority on it,
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  but I feel like there's less of a distinction between the
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  schools as there maybe
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  SPEAKER_01: once was.
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  SPEAKER_00: They all kind of blend together in the overarching ethos.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  I feel like it's kind of more like each school gives you a set
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  of tools for the
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  SPEAKER_01: tool belt.
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  And then when you're on stage,
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  you just pull whichever tool is most useful.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's a good way to think about it.
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  You,
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  by the way,
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  everyone in the chat,
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  thank you for,
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  people are enjoying this.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for posting in the chat.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Also, at eight o'clock, we are going to flip the camera and scribble.
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  So hang out for that and think about what you want to request
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  because DMA is draw me anything.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like an AMA, but drawing.
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  SPEAKER_00: So if you do have any requests of stuff that you want Asha and I to draw,
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  SPEAKER_00: start thinking about those now.
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  I want to talk about the book a little bit more because I
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  happened to see it when
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  SPEAKER_00: we were in Philly.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: We were at the American Library Association event.
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  SPEAKER_00: Scott and I were flogging our book.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're not a real dog owner until.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we were talking about humor and writing.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I saw your book.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there's one thing.
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  SPEAKER_00: Scott and I write New Yorker cartoons together a lot.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we're sort of real...
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  SPEAKER_00: fans of people who have a very distinct voice.
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  Like,
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  I feel like I knew you before I even met you because of your
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  cartoons.
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  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, that's not a compliment.
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  SPEAKER_00: But like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Steed and you and Ellis and Jason and Sophia,
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  SPEAKER_00: Hillary,
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  SPEAKER_00: everyone has like a real distinct voice about them where you kind of...
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  SPEAKER_00: It's them in...
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  SPEAKER_00: We're using the cartoons as like a conduit for their,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: observations.
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  SPEAKER_00: But like your books...
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  are the perfect distillation of that insane prism that you sort
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  of see the world through.
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  SPEAKER_00: Which,
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  SPEAKER_00: just from a technical perspective,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's,
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: not to speak of the joke writing itself,
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  SPEAKER_00: but just like technically,
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  SPEAKER_00: every line that is in there is pulling its weight.
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  Like there's no extraneous cross-hatching or bullshit that's in
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  there to fill the space.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's all every line is there deliberately.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  to sell the joke to sell the scene to you know the shading is
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  leaving the eye to
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  where you want it to go like i feel you are maybe like um uh i
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  don't know if this
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  is innate or if it's deliberate whatever it is you have this
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  capacity to just like
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  sell a joke in the way that it needs to be like the great word
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  economy all that
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  kind of stuff is that conscious or do you just have that that
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  you and your
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  SPEAKER_00: ridiculous way more funny twin have that genetics
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, first of all.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I feel the same way when I first started doing this a few years ago.
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  SPEAKER_01: You were one of the first cartoonists that I actually got to...
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  like become a fan of like i because like i grew up looking at
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  these cartoons but i
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  didn't really i wasn't really a fan of any individual people i
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  just sort of liked
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  the the genre and then once i started doing it i i was i
• 9:07
  gravitated towards you
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  know certain people and you were you were one of the first
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  people i was like oh
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  cool i like what this guy's doing i like this is inspiring
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  you're saying you
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  started with terrible tastes and then eventually developed a
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  palette evolved over
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  SPEAKER_01: time right exactly right yes yeah um
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  SPEAKER_01: It's funny,
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  SPEAKER_01: when I teach classes,
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  SPEAKER_01: I do specifically focus on using as few words as possible,
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  SPEAKER_01: using as few lines as possible,
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  and drawing focus with things like scale and shading and sort
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  of the basic
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  SPEAKER_01: principles of any kind of drawing,
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  SPEAKER_01: I guess.
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  SPEAKER_01: So...
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  SPEAKER_01: To some extent, yes, it is on purpose.
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  But I also think with all things like that,
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  eventually it just becomes innate.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes when you,
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  like there are certain stress tests you can do for a cartoon
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  after you're done
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  SPEAKER_01: drawing it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like if I were to pull this out, would it still work?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: If it does, then I should probably pull this out.
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  Is there a way I can get the funniest word towards the end of
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  the caption?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like that kind of thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: I do think there are sort of tests you can do.
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  But it does feel more like it's just kind of a salt to taste
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  situation where you
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  SPEAKER_01: just kind of know when it's not working and you know when it is.
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  So I think it is deliberate,
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  but I don't think it's necessarily as systematic as it could
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  be.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
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  I know there are people who are very like finicky about it and
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  then others who just
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: kind of,
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  SPEAKER_00: they couldn't tell you why they did what they did,
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  SPEAKER_00: but they just kind of put the lines down and go,
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  SPEAKER_00: ah,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's how it comes out.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're working traditionally or digitally or both?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do both.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I do all of my sketching on an iPad.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you do both too though, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But most of your finishes are on paper, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like to have an original, yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's what I do.
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  SPEAKER_01: When I sell one, I'll generally, if I have time, I draw it on paper.
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  SPEAKER_01: And if I don't sell it and it's,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: and it's,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: just like one,
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  SPEAKER_01: one for the one for the gram,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: then I'll generally just keep the digital version and do that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love drawing on paper so much.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's kind of corny, but I kind of romanticize it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I do like the feel of the pen dragging across it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is like the one,
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  SPEAKER_01: the one environment in which this is not like,
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  SPEAKER_01: this is encouraged,
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  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: But I also,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm so used to drawing digitally that when I do draw on paper,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'll find myself tapping the paper to try to undo a line.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the convenience of digital is still, I'm still seduced by it often.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  I think,
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  like,
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  I still use undo when I'm working digitally,
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  and it does slow me down.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
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  SPEAKER_00: knowing subconsciously that it's there,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: it makes me more confident in the line,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it's because I know I have a safety net.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I did that for so many years during the comic strip,
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  SPEAKER_00: just working digitally,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: that I kind of lost the ability to draw by hand without that safety net.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're really... When you're working with ink...
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  or you're drawing like on paper,
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  it's like this line,
• 12:05
  you get one shot at it pretty much.
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  SPEAKER_00: Unless you just, you know, erase it or throw the whole thing out.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: it feels like there's more,
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  the stakes are higher or there's more risk to it or there's
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  more skill to it that I
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  SPEAKER_00: lost that because it atrophied from me working digitally.
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  So now that's partly why I love working by hand is not just the
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  romance of it,
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  SPEAKER_00: but also just like the skill of it,
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  SPEAKER_00: like keeping that muscle up.
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  you know yeah totally i i think sometimes i'll prioritize what
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  i what i draw first
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  based on how important it is to me that it looks right like
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  there i forget there
• 12:39
  was one i was doing a few weeks ago and i drew the face last
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  which is fucking crazy
• 12:45
  that is crazy and then i messed up the eyes and i was like well
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  now the whole draw
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  SPEAKER_01: like i saw i i already drawn the whole background everything
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  SPEAKER_01: So then on the next one, I was like, okay, start with the eyes.
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  Make sure you like the face before you draw this room with
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  perfect perspective.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you like the eyes first.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you light box stuff?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, have you turned your iPad into a light box?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I only just figured out how to do it like two weeks ago.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Game changer.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have a light box and that's what I used for a long time.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I do think it is a little bit better because it's brighter.
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  SPEAKER_01: But, man.
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  the ipad like it's pretty also i think about the paper i'm
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  using is too high
• 13:26
  quality because the lightbox barely shines through it i think i
• 13:29
  need to go i forget
• 13:30
  what pound i got but i think i can get like a slightly lower
• 13:33
  quality paper but yeah
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  SPEAKER_00: if you get like 80 pound you should be pretty good with a with an ipad
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  SPEAKER_00: But then again, write this down.
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  SPEAKER_00: I've always been curious because you're,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you have people that you bounce stuff off to say,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: is this funny?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Has this been done?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I always bounce stuff off Scott or Comedy Friends or,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: like other New Yorker cartoonists.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ellis is great for like, has this been done?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Encyclopedia.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Encyclopedia of cartoons.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, do you have, like, because you, it's Reuven, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Your twin brother?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's also very funny.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: He has whatever that gene is, that derangement of the brain.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever bounce stuff off?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you have a brains trust that you kind of bounce jokes off?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I do.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to add you to it if you're open to it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: No way.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Lose my number.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I do send stuff to Alice all the time.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Brendan Loper, I'll send stuff to you.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's great.
• 14:44
  Ruben actually is a really good resource just because he's not
• 14:47
  a cartoonist,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: but I trust his taste and I think he's...
• 14:53
  yeah i actually think it's nice and nice to have some
• 14:54
  non-cartoon friends who just
• 14:56
  have yes because you get kind of lost in the it's sort of nice
• 15:02
  to have an outside
• 15:02
  perspective i think sometimes so i have some some comedy
• 15:05
  friends who are not
• 15:06
  cartoonists like steve waltine um who i work with at the late
• 15:10
  show i i'll send
• 15:11
  stuff to him and uh i mean obviously i forced my wife to look
• 15:15
  at everything um
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I know I need to exercise restraint and not... Not everything, yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: For the sake of the marriage.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing is having that...
• 15:28
  It's the difference between doing an open mic in a room full of
• 15:30
  comics and actually
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: doing a show in front of an audience.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: is like getting that sense of like,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: because the comedians and the captain,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: they know the mechanics of it all.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they kind of can see the back end.
• 15:41
  So yeah,
• 15:42
  if you're thinking of like the structure or something,
• 15:45
  yeah,
• 15:45
  all right,
• 15:45
  maybe ask him.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if you really want to stress test a bit or a joke,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: like you got to run it through people who don't do this for a living.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 15:52
  you don't want like all the comedians just nodding their heads
• 15:55
  and saying,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: yes,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: that works.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had that experience where comics are the worst audience?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you do a bit that's good or like it works,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: instead of them laughing,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: they'll go,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: that's good.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good bit.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well-crafted.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well-crafted.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Efficient.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think I did think of that at one point.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, inevitably.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I had a similar bit.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's tough,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: though,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: because we can get really siloed in our own little,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: our own little kingdom of just,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: cartooning and comedy writing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've always been...
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like ever since you graduated,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: when you're in Chicago,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: you're surrounded by improvisers,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: then you're surrounded by writers and comedians and cartoonists.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you just have this...
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the word is.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not panopticon.
• 16:51
  You just have this atmosphere of funny people around you at all
• 16:57
  times,
• 16:57
  which is fantastic.
• 16:59
  It's such a great thing to have because you're always looking
• 17:04
  at the world and thinking like,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that funny?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is this funny?
• 17:08
  But then I feel like it's tough to get a read on what's funny
• 17:14
  to regular people.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So in the way that like,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:18
  I was drawing the other day and someone was looking at me
• 17:20
  drawing and they were
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: looking as if it was like some dark magic and I was like,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 17:24
  I forget that not everyone can draw because you just take it
• 17:27
  for granted because
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's something you can just do.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you forget that some people don't,
• 17:34
  write comedy so what they find funny is different yeah and some
• 17:38
  people can't draw
• 17:39
  so they look at someone drawing oh my god how are you doing
• 17:41
  that yeah yeah it's
• 17:42
  tricky i remember at second city we used to uh the night before
• 17:46
  i mean we so we
• 17:47
  would run a show for a year or something there'd be a process
• 17:50
  that you go through
• 17:51
  which was basically as you were as one show was winding down
• 17:54
  and you were building
• 17:55
  out the next one you would introduce new sketches and improvise
• 17:59
  them in in the show
• 18:00
  then in the real show and then if it works you would keep doing
• 18:03
  it and tweaking it
• 18:05
  And as a result,
• 18:05
  you were always getting real time feedback from real audiences.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, it's the best way to make sure your material worked.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really liked it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the funny thing is after,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: six weeks,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: eight weeks,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: however long the process was,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: then you would have,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: you would,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: you would stop doing that.
• 18:19
  The show would be done and you would do an opening night and
• 18:23
  the night before
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: opening night,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: you would have friends and family night where you'd all invite your,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: your,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: your,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: your,
• 18:28
  families obviously but also a bunch of comedy people would come
• 18:31
  and it would sort
• 18:31
  of one for the community and the stuff that works in that house
• 18:35
  is so different
• 18:37
  than the stuff that had been working for the you know two three
• 18:42
  months leading up
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: to it yeah because
• 18:45
  For two or three months,
• 18:47
  you had real people,
• 18:48
  like actual non-comedy people.
• 18:50
  And so they were laughing at totally different things in this
• 18:52
  room full of comedy
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: people would laugh at.
• 18:54
  So then you do this friends and family night and you'd be like,
• 18:56
  whoa,
• 18:57
  all the laughs are crazy.
• 18:59
  No one's laughing at the easy stuff,
• 19:00
  but they are laughing at the weird stuff.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It would just totally mess you up.
• 19:05
  And then the next night you would do an opening for the public
• 19:08
  and it would be back to normal.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: To get that gauge, to kind of get that read on what's working based on.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And no one collectively gets together and goes,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: all right,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: guys,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: we're not going to laugh at this.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're all going to laugh at this stuff.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: They just collectively have a different taste.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Triggers of their surprise, you know?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've used this example before,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: but when I was doing Second City,
• 19:32
  it was right before the Cubs had won the World Series and they
• 19:35
  were really bad.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And with an audience of non-comedy people,
• 19:39
  you could predictably get a laugh by saying anything where the
• 19:44
  point of it was that
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: the Cubs were bad.
• 19:46
  Like if you were like,
• 19:48
  man,
• 19:48
  my day is so bad,
• 19:49
  I might as well be on the Cubs.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then the audience would lose it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was kind of this magic trick.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: You could bust it out at any point if you needed a laugh.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then in front of other comedy people,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: they all hated it because they were like,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: oh my god,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: another Cubs joke.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Jets now.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Jets.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is funny.
• 20:13
  Other comics will give me shit for...
• 20:17
  If I'm hosting,
• 20:17
  if I'm MCing a show...
• 20:19
  And it's like,
• 20:20
  it's a club show and it's,
• 20:22
  you know,
• 20:22
  an audience from out of town.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of tourists and whatever.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll just use terms that I know they're going to respond to.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of hack.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not jokes.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like...
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's the,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: give it up for your next,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: all these like things that MCs just say,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: comedy MCs say.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like such a hack doing it.
• 20:45
  And then I come up stage and the old like grizzled comics who
• 20:51
  are just like road
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: dogs,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: like haggard decades in going,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: ugh,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: yuck.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this encyclopedia of hack.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're just not allowed to touch.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get the instinct though.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I did it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was reliable.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:08
  So you and I have the same editor on your editor on both Well
• 21:17
  This Is Me and Hi It's Me Again.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was Lucas Wetzel at
• 21:22
  uh andrewson meal publishing are you ready for the for the
• 21:25
  lamest fact check of all
• 21:26
  time but i feel i feel like i should do it do it please please
• 21:29
  so the first was it
• 21:30
  patty on the first one patty rice yeah as far as patty patty
• 21:33
  gets her gets her uh
• 21:35
  patty rice it was great and then she started this one but then
• 21:40
  she um she retired
• 21:42
  uh like half way through so lucas tagged in so that's that's
• 21:45
  when i started working
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: with lucas
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right, right.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did she retire this year or last year, I think?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was maybe six months ago.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so this year.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like early this year, yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting listening to different people because we have,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:00
  I know different people who do books with different publishers
• 22:03
  and so especially
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: when it comes to like comedy,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: like writing jokes,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: is the editor matters a lot,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: because if they get out of your way and just let you
• 22:15
  you know from in a comedy perspective just like let you be
• 22:18
  funny and encourage you
• 22:19
  to like you know have your own voice and tone that's great and
• 22:24
  then there's editors
• 22:25
  who think they are funny or who think they know oh no maybe
• 22:30
  change it to this or
• 22:31
  maybe that's better like i've had those editors and they're not
• 22:35
  great um but i feel
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: like lucas let's let's just be
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: funny,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: like lets us,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: like he'll pick us up on grammatical or structural or technical,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: whatever things,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: but for the most part,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: kind of lets us do what we want.
• 22:50
  Yeah,
• 22:51
  which is really nice when you're feeling confident in what
• 22:53
  you're doing.
• 22:54
  And then when you have a moment of self-doubt and you're like,
• 22:57
  man,
• 22:57
  I kind of want someone...
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: to tell me whether or not this is good.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: But then you have friends who can do that too, which is nice.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 23:05
  Yeah,
• 23:05
  I send stuff to other cartoonists who are doing books and need
• 23:08
  to procrastinate.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, that's the way.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I will give notes on a thousand scripts before I write my own.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want to keep talking,
• 23:19
  but we're going to do the camera flip and have a little bit of
• 23:22
  a scribble.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: You've got your iPad there, which is great.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think...
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know what, I've got my iPad as well.
• 23:31
  I'm going to do iPad as well because I've never done live iPad
• 23:35
  on this show.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I should because as much as I love working on paper,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: as do you,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: it is pretty amazing how good Procreate has gotten.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And shout out to the Tasmanian product team at Procreate and Kyle T.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Webster with his amazing brushes.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty good, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you use Procreate?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, am I good here?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is this good?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can see.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to bring your phone?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to bring your phone closer or no?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say if I told you it's not possible?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fine.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fine.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: First,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: we did get,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm going to keep talking here,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: but we got a request in the chat from Grant Goodwin,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: who said he has a drawing idea,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if this is an idea starter or an actual thing,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: it's buffalo,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: as in B-U-F-F-A,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: L-O-A-F.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so I got like a part on Buffalo and Love?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm thinking like, I don't know, like...
• 24:54
  I don't know if you ever do these kind of,
• 24:58
  not Mad Libs,
• 24:59
  but like,
• 24:59
  what is it?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of the name.
• 25:03
  There's several different versions of like these cars that you
• 25:06
  can flip for like
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: experimenting with ideas.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever use those?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think Emily Flake did one called Joke in a Box, which is really good.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was also McNeil, I think.
• 25:21
  And it's like just if you're really stuck and you're just like,
• 25:26
  ugh,
• 25:26
  I can't think of anything.
• 25:27
  I need to just kind of like an idea starter or something to
• 25:32
  just like go on.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: They can kind of help a little bit.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And also like with stand-up,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: like taking to my friend Anthony mentioned the other day how he's been
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Doing this thing where you take two completely disparate ideas or bits,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: like existing bits,
• 25:52
  and then figure out how to write a segue between the two bits
• 25:57
  and then write a bit
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: out of that segue,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: which I've never heard of before,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: but it's an interesting exercise to do.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I feel like I have no... I have no go...
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: two exercises like that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking, wait, can you see mine still?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Buffalo for Grant Goodwin.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think we both did very similar things.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: I knew this was going to be better drawn in every instance here.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have another one from Paul Nesja.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Paul,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: It said, draw Norbert, the morbidly obese hummingbird.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's... Wait, is this a point on the Eddie Murphy movie Norbert?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Norbert, the hit movie, I think you'll find.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Norbert, which I think three people might have seen.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm trying to draw a hummingbird from memory.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell do you...
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: come up with.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have like a visual vocabulary of things,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: like of animals and stuff that you just pull from?
• 27:07
  I would say anyone who just saw my drawing of the buffalo will
• 27:10
  know the answer to that is no.
• 27:12
  I think the hard part about the butterfly is because you have
• 27:20
  to draw the movement
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: of the wings,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: which I feel like is true.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right, of course, yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: This one is from
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Paul,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: and correct me if I'm wrong,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Paul,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: is the host of the New Yorker Caption Contest podcast.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no, Paul's great.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And winner of, I think, the New Yorker Caption Contest multiple times.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Correct me if I'm wrong, Paul.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is so weird.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: This looks like some rejected George Lucas Star Wars concept sketch.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like for episode one.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I don't know.
• 28:07
  The proboscis,
• 28:09
  if that's what you call it,
• 28:10
  it looks a little suspect here.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: for a second,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: because I saw you at this show,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: or the after party for this show,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: just gush a little bit about how much I love Gary Goldman and how...
• 28:25
  excellent it is that he's going to be at your book launch oh my
• 28:29
  gosh I'm such a
• 28:31
  huge fan I love Gary yeah I think his comedy is so precise and
• 28:37
  sharp and smart and
• 28:41
  yeah and I'm drawn to him he's vegan and I'm vegetarian but
• 28:45
  we're both non-meat
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: eating tall Jewish men so I think I'm drawn to him it's a niche yeah
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Find your people.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love Gary.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's the best.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Grandiloquent was his one-man show that we were at.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I saw you there.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:06
  And it was one of those things that I remember going in and you
• 29:08
  know when people
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: say,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to love it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, people like breathlessly say, oh, it's the best.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to love this.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, listen, I already love Gary.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's going to be great.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember walking out of it going, holy crap.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: That was insane.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was so good.
• 29:25
  and so like i i liked i liked that he did a one-man show that
• 29:30
  was as it still felt
• 29:32
  like funny in the same in the same way that his stand-up's
• 29:34
  funny i didn't feel like
• 29:35
  he made it needlessly it was it was still very fun i feel like
• 29:38
  my um my bird feeder
• 29:40
  looks more like a bong at this point but maybe that's why he's
• 29:44
  so obese too many
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: munchies that's right um
• 29:48
  Yeah,
• 29:48
  Paul said you got it right,
• 29:50
  and that's a scary-looking hummingbird.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Norbert.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was another request that we got through just by the way,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: which is...
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Actually,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was the very first one that we got.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Please draw Eugene and his dog, who looks like Eugene.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to let you lead the way on this one.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually very excited to see what you do with this.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going to be copying you.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want to see what you do.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: My version of Eugene.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, man.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I like the roundness of Eugene's head.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: How far apart his little eyes are.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's got this real, it's almost like an innocence to him.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's just, he just showed up in the world 10 minutes ago.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: I do feel very protective of that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's just trying to make his way in the world, you know?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's just got things to do and he's going to be fine.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: But he just needs to ask you a question.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's a little hungry.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: His question is, are you going to finish that?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: there's,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: with the goal,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you saw,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you did,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: the bit that he does about the abbreviations of the American states.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it's so good.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those bits that the first time you see it or hear it,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: you take it in,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: you laugh at it,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: and you go,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: boy,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: that was a good bit.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then you watch it again,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: or you listen to it again,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: and you realize how many laugh lines there are in that chunk.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's one chunk.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think he did it on Colbert?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Conan, maybe.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Conan.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was Conan.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he just keeps going with this one single bit.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Most comics have like a five-minute set with different topics and stuff.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's just got this one bit that keeps going.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, he just...
• 32:04
  manages to find all these laughs in this one idea about the
• 32:09
  state abbreviations.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he does it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's squeaky clean.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is clean as a whistle.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's hilariously funny.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And no one can...
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those bits where even if you try to tell someone the bit,
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: you can't.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't repeat the bit because it has to be told by him.
• 32:30
  Yeah,
• 32:30
  it's sort of deceptively simple,
• 32:32
  but it actually is kind of complicated.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I totally know what you mean.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so elegant.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I remember hearing that for the first time.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like so compact and so elegant.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he's able to distill that one idea.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think Norm used to kind of do that as well,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: like drag out one idea into these kind of extended monologues.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And just see how far he could take it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like one story and turn it into a thing.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wait.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see yours.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love yours so much.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's canon.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's canon.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is that on model?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jason, don't delete that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's canon.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can you send that to me?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to send this Jason to you.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, man.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's his name?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's Eugene's dog's name?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, man.
• 33:27
  I was going to say dog gene,
• 33:28
  but then that's too much like Dilbert and dog birds.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's not go there.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the people in the chat can name Eugene's dog.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there are some people,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed some faces and names who are joined,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: who are watching this tonight.
• 33:50
  Some are actually from overseas because we're doing an evening
• 33:53
  one so they can tune in.
• 33:57
  They are people who are actually going to be at your book
• 33:59
  launch tomorrow.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: There are people in the chat who are going to be there tomorrow night.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's really exciting.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's fun.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to see you all.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Stan said, isn't Eugene's dog also named Eugene?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, honestly, that's canon.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's true now.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're really... There's a lot of canon happening here.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot going on here.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you...
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something I've been curious about with your...
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you are prolific.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: You have so many different cartoons.
• 34:36
  And there's one thing I think you and...
• 34:38
  I think I asked Amy Huang this and Sophia Warren.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've asked anyone else.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's with the sheer volume of cartoons that you have...
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell do you file them and search for them?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have all these different topics and cartoons.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you file?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep all the cartoons?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you keep them?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do you file them?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I keep them.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think I do it really poorly.
• 35:03
  And if Amy and Sophia have better ways of doing this,
• 35:06
  I honestly want to steal them from them.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just have a folder on my... I'll show you.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, we're looking at it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like here,
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: these are the ideas that I have yet to actually,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: these are just like rough sketches I need to turn into finished products.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:23
  And then I have,
• 35:24
  these are cartoons that are fully drawn,
• 35:26
  but I haven't submitted yet.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: So those are like banked.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: These are ones I have subbed, but they haven't bought.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then these are ones that I posted on Instagram in the last year.
• 35:39
  And then these are ones I've sold to the New Yorker,
• 35:41
  but they haven't run yet.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Run them yet.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oops.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then Wait House.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then... These are the book ones.
• 35:52
  In other words,
• 35:52
  basically what I'm saying is I don't really have a very good
• 35:55
  system.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times,
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: you want to...
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're doing a carousel on Instagram or something,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: you want to pick something thematic.
• 36:04
  so it's sort of hard you kind of have to remember like oh wait
• 36:07
  what are my dog
• 36:08
  cartoons and inevitably you just won't remember all of them
• 36:11
  right right so you just
• 36:13
  what do you in your brain that's that's how you remember them
• 36:16
  it's just your brain
• 36:17
  is the system yes which is which is horrible but uh it was the
• 36:23
  best one i got i
• 36:25
  always wonder that is it also is that on the cloud or is that
• 36:27
  just locally on your
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: ipad
• 36:30
  I think I sort of panicked a while ago and I made sure that my
• 36:35
  iPad was backing up to iCloud.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's included Procreate,
• 36:41
  but I still worry that maybe there's something that's backing
• 36:44
  up the system files
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: but not the art files or something.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that works.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have to figure that out.
• 36:51
  Because it feels like it's a pretty good system as far as
• 36:55
  everything's in the one place.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not spread across different cloud folders and
• 37:01
  machines and stuff but i don't know it's i i don't think anyone
• 37:04
  really talks about
• 37:05
  that much about the when you when you have so many different
• 37:09
  jokes and cartoons
• 37:11
  like how do you manage them how do you how do you catalog them
• 37:15
  all if someone goes
• 37:16
  hey do you have anything on like let me do tune stack and
• 37:18
  anyone who hasn't
• 37:19
  subscribed to tune stack subscribe to tune stack on Substack
• 37:22
  it's great every
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: couple weeks, we do a newsletter on a different topic.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bunch of New Yorker cartoonists.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll just pick a topic and do cartoons on it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I go through old cartoons.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 37:38
  I really need to get better at cataloging these so that when
• 37:41
  someone says,
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: do you have anything on,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: like picnics or travel or whatever,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: there's some kind of,
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: there's like a way to index them or tag them or search them.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you crack this,
• 37:56
  you got to make it and sell it to the whole community and
• 37:59
  you'll make a fortune.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: There was an attempt at one point,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 38:04
  with cartoon collections or cartoon stock to just upload
• 38:07
  everything to that and
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: then have it searchable with tags.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think that ever really worked.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, who is this dog?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is this Eugene?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is a cat.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is cat Eugene.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cat Eugene.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I can't see it.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can see it now.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went rogue.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went rogue.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a character that you come back to?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember seeing, I think it was in Memphis or something.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just remembering this now.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So Joe Dater, our friend Joe, he has this character that he often reuses.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's this cartoon, and I have it above my desk here.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see it?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's that one.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are you in this?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Eugene's in this.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Eugene's in this.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, what if this is all just a cartoon?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's everyone's, it's like Steed, it's Booth, the dog on your shirt.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's Roz, it's Emily Flake, it's David Cypress, it's Eugene.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's Lars's thumbhead guy.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a Chuck Sachs
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's Charlie Adams' Lurch, Ed Corrin's furry creature there.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then Ned, which is Alice's.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ned helped out.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then Amy Huang's character.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about all of those,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: and then there's Joe's,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: just characters on the couch.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:46
  The thing I love about all of these is that they're not
• 39:50
  necessarily all repeated characters.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they are.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's Emily's autobiographical version of her.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, every single one of them has a totally different style.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And today, I was just talking to the AKC Museum of the Dog.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing an exhibition called New Yorker Cartoons About Dogs.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a New Yorker covers and cartoons and illustrations about dogs.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that opens tomorrow, actually.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they were sort of...
• 40:22
  One of the questions they were asking in the interview thing in
• 40:24
  the bio was like,
• 40:28
  what was it that like led to your first sale or what was the
• 40:32
  thing that changed,
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: when you were pitching,
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I sold to Bob Mankoff, like was my first sale.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your first sale to Bob or to Emma?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Emma.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Emma, okay.
• 40:44
  So the thing that changed it was that I stopped drawing what I
• 40:49
  thought a New Yorker
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: cartoon was meant to look like.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I kept...
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: I kept drawing what I thought a New Yorker cartoon was meant to be.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just changed it and drew like myself, I guess.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that was when I sold.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I drew something as my own style.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at all those styles.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, I could spot them from the moon.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: All those different styles are so different.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what makes them good, is that they're so unique.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: So do you remember what it was that changed when you made your own style,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: when you leaned into that?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Seer frustration, abject misery.
• 41:31
  Just nonstop rejection for years and years and just being so
• 41:36
  frustrated at not
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: selling anything.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fair, fair, fair.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: He did sit me down.
• 41:42
  Bob did sit me down one day and he gave me this weird analogy
• 41:46
  about my hair.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: He said,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: he was like,
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: how do you,
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: when you get up in the morning,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: you have a shower,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: you do your hair.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you, like, I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to follow the thread.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: But he said, well, you decide...
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: to wear your hair that way.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: You've made a decision to wear your hair in that way.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow along the line,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: whether you saw someone else wear a similar hairstyle,
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: you saw it in a magazine or a TV show or a movie,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: or you,
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 42:19
  some hairdresser or a parent or someone made your hair like
• 42:23
  that at some point,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: and that's how you've developed,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: that's how you wear your hair.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I said, so why is that any different than your drawing?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why...
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why is your drawing not as distinct as your hairstyle?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really trying to follow along.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, I didn't get it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was just so dense.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand what he was talking about.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually, it sunk in.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because I think of you as someone with a very specific style.
• 42:54
  I kind of want to see your old stuff now and see what it was
• 42:57
  you were drawing before.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was not good.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll show you privately, but it was what I thought
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd look at,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:08
  Peter Arno and Chuck Saxon and all these people and George
• 43:11
  Booth and people who I
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely have no business trying to ape,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: who in their own right,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: if you really look at them,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: they all have their own unique style.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But in my head, they were the style guide.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that was my like, oh, that's what they look like.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the cartoons have to look like.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then...
• 43:28
  going through the New York 100th anniversary exhibition today
• 43:32
  at the public
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: library,
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: every single one of these cartoons has a totally different style.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: But in my head, that was the style then.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of contradictory.
• 43:44
  I actually remember when I first started out,
• 43:48
  I showed Alice one of my early batches.
• 43:51
  And this wasn't even as much about the style as it was about
• 43:54
  the jokes themselves.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, you know, this feels like
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to draw a New Yorker cartoon.
• 44:02
  You'd do better if you drew an Asher from one cartoon that
• 44:05
  could be in the New Yorker.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's great advice.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Again, yeah, it's so simple and obvious when you think about it.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I did sell one month after he said that.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying is he's not a complete idiot.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do think he's a complete idiot, but...
• 44:26
  you know broken clock and i'll you know twice a day brilliant
• 44:34
  yeah i mean he is a
• 44:35
  font of wisdom he is uh yeah he's he's got very good advice um
• 44:41
  and again it's it's
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: wasted over on beehive truly uh
• 44:51
  He really should come over to Substack so that I can bother him
• 44:53
  and get him on the show.
• 44:55
  How did you,
• 44:55
  because you have like,
• 44:56
  I mean,
• 44:56
  you have so many people on Substack following you.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: How did you build out?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you're very good at this.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: What'd you do?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: I actually,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: honestly,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: it was a similar thing to the New Yorker where I stopped trying,
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'd stopped trying to copy the,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: what they said.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is the successful thing to do.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is the done thing.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is the,
• 45:17
  You know,
• 45:17
  I just kind of leaned into my own thing,
• 45:20
  what I thought it was.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of write for my own people.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't like it, that's totally fine.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: They can leave.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of celebrate the unsubscribes.
• 45:33
  And yeah,
• 45:34
  I just stopped worrying about numbers and going up and all
• 45:38
  that.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like...
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had a mailing list for many years because I would stand out the front.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I did a show and I did well,
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: so really,
• 45:49
  I would stand out front of the show and I would hand out these
• 45:55
  business cards with
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: a QR code on it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be like for my newsletter, for my MailChimp.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had a MailChimp.
• 46:01
  And it was basically to tell people,
• 46:05
  all it was,
• 46:05
  was every week I would email,
• 46:07
  like,
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: what I was going to be doing next week,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: like what shows I was going to be at,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: what,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: venues,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: what clubs.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then people would come to shows.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: They'd bring friends.
• 46:16
  They'd go,
• 46:17
  oh,
• 46:17
  yeah,
• 46:17
  you're the guy we saw at The Stand or at Dangerfields or
• 46:19
  whatever it was.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of just a mercenary way of getting booked.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I, um,
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to, you know, get spots.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the bookers were like, oh, he brings people.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll book him again.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't because it was good.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a point where I built that list.
• 46:38
  I would prune it a lot,
• 46:39
  but I built that list on MailChimp,
• 46:40
  but I just had it.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: for years.
• 46:43
  And there's still people on the Substack list from that
• 46:45
  original mailing list.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I've pointed it over.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they're real people that I've met.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Any original MailChimp people, if you're here, say something.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 46:55
  Yeah,
• 46:55
  shout out in the chat if you joined when I gave out a business
• 47:02
  card with a QR code on it.
• 47:07
  Yeah,
• 47:08
  I brought that over to Substack in 2020,
• 47:14
  which is pretty early on,
• 47:15
  I guess,
• 47:15
  for Substack.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then just kind of just kept doing the weekly thing.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the thing.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was, like, consistent.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was, like, every week I'd do it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started doing, like, drawings and, like, of...
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there we go.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Alan Moyle.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: He said, yep, might have, but probably even pre that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just kind of evolved over time.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have been building it for a long time.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the good thing about Substack is that I like about it is that the
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: recommendation engine,
• 47:51
  it helps you find people who actually like your stuff instead
• 47:54
  of you trying to
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: please the whole world and just get followers for the sake of followers.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's people who actually opt in and like your stuff.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find the same?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just joined, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: You just joined Substack.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: How have you found it?
• 48:08
  yeah i just started uh i think a month ago or yeah like a month
• 48:11
  ago now because we
• 48:12
  had talked you and i talked about when we were in philadelphia
• 48:15
  i was toying around
• 48:16
  with um with yeah which which one to go with and ultimately i
• 48:21
  did go so and i and i
• 48:22
  do like it a lot it's like it's like it feels kind of like what
• 48:26
  you what i wanted
• 48:27
  instagram to be but it never was um and i love instagram i mean
• 48:33
  yeah i i still use
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: it all the time but
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: as a consumer,
• 48:38
  I'm someone who prefers things that exist outside of the
• 48:40
  algorithm now just because
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like being catered to my worst instincts.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's, I like emails more.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: So just as a user, I prefer it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people, yeah, I don't know.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like a better, I think it's better for our brains.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you, how many have you done now?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: How many sub-stacks have you done?
• 49:07
  And are you finding people commenting or like sharing stuff or
• 49:10
  like what's working for you?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's cool.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like the community that builds up around this is nice.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big piece for me was like finding other cartoons,
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: in the comments,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: they like end up following or recommending similar stuff.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's really always really nice.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So tomorrow night, we've got the book launch at Bell House.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's going to be there.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be great.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: You said there's only a few tickets left, I think, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you go on the Bell House website, I think there are a few left.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 49:57
  If you go on the Bell House website,
• 49:59
  I know there are a few available tomorrow night.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: The show's at 7.30pm.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the doors, doors open at, uh, six 30.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: So come on by.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have, I have some like door prizes and stuff.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be signing books and, uh, just grabbing a drink and hanging out.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: shows that seven 30 and I think it should go like,
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: 60 to 90 minutes or something.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll send some more books and,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be cool.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so did you,
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: is that on,
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: can they find that on your Substack as well,
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: that information?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is,
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: it should be on there,
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: but also,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 50:34
  it definitely is on there if you like go through my most recent
• 50:37
  newsletter,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: but it's also,
• 50:39
  I think it might be easier if you just go on my Instagram and
• 50:42
  click on the links in
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: the bio.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely there.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to do like link in bio.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:49
  Yeah,
• 50:50
  I mentioned it just because I did have a couple of people ask
• 50:53
  about it today.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that there are some people,
• 50:56
  some cartoonists who are in town from overseas who are going to
• 50:58
  be coming as well.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know Michael McFarlane?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a couple.
• 51:07
  Yeah,
• 51:09
  there's just people in town,
• 51:10
  I guess,
• 51:11
  just like visiting and they're just all lined up.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, man.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: and members of the National Cartoonist Society were going to be there,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously other New Yorker cartoonists.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the last one was so huge.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you sold out the last one.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: You had, like, Jordan Klepper there, and it was huge.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it was awesome.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was...
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny.
• 51:34
  I always get nervous before these things and then they happen
• 51:37
  and it's just like
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: the best feeling.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 51:39
  it's like everyone's so nice and the community shows up and
• 51:42
  it's just like cool to
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: see that many cartoonists all in the same room together.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the 100th anniversary party, but with less hangovers, maybe.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was one hell of a night.
• 51:58
  Well,
• 51:58
  so anyone who hasn't,
• 51:59
  by the way,
• 52:00
  subscribed already,
• 52:01
  you can actually,
• 52:02
  if next to...
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's next to your name.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can just click subscribe.
• 52:13
  If next to Ash's name on the live stream here,
• 52:16
  you can just click subscribe.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, just go to Ash's profile and subscribe to his sub stack.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that's kind of like coming up that you've got?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, you know,
• 52:31
  the book is priority one and and all that kind of thing are you
• 52:34
  doing a book tour
• 52:35
  you got some stuff coming up with that like to promote the book
• 52:38
  yeah i'll be in so
• 52:39
  yeah brooklyn launches tomorrow and then right a week from
• 52:43
  tomorrow i'll be in los
• 52:44
  angeles at village well and then a week a week a week from that
• 52:50
  i'll be in
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: philadelphia at head house books
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm taking a little bit of break because like you said,
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: I work at the late show and we don't have,
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: it's like take time off,
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: in the new year,
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to,
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have a week off that I'm going to go to Seattle,
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Washington and Olympia,
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Washington,
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: and hopefully some other,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: some other spots.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll be doing a tour and trying to see as many people as I can.
• 53:17
  I want to add a stop in Portland because I hear Powell's is
• 53:19
  like a really cool bookstore.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Powell's is amazing.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's epic.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's huge.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Powell's is one of those insane, it's like the Disneyland.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just huge.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I don't know, I don't even know how to describe it.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen anything like it before.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you go to do Powell's if you're in Portland, it's epic.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: And Tom Toro's out there.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Tom and I are going to do,
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: in Seattle,
• 53:47
  we're going to do a shared event because he has a book coming
• 53:49
  out in a month,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone who's watching, if you don't know who Tom Toro is, go back.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was a guest a couple weeks back.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: He has a Substack as well.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tom Toro is T-O-R-O if you want to subscribe to his Substack.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's fantastic.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: he's got a book coming out in,
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: the next week or the week after,
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's got a book coming out.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: I thought maybe it was October, but I can't remember.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't even know what day it is.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 54:20
  Well,
• 54:21
  I am aware that I have kept you for more than the hour that I
• 54:27
  asked.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I could literally just sit and draw with you and talk shop all night.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to see you tomorrow night.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to see you at the launch.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, you're wearing your George Booth t-shirt.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: If not...
• 54:40
  can we get a look at that for a second is that official new
• 54:42
  yorker i love it is i
• 54:44
  literally bought this on new yorker.com man i love it so good i
• 54:48
  love it um and
• 54:50
  everyone who hasn't already please subscribe to asha's Substack
• 54:53
  by the book it's
• 54:54
  called hi it's me again with andrews mcbill publishing asha
• 54:58
  you're the absolute
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: coolest thank you for coming on uh and and scribbling with me um
• 55:05
  Be prepared to be tagged in annoying Instagram reels of us
• 55:10
  talking shit on this show.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is the best.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks for attending everyone who's here.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Stan, I just saw that you said you had to find the Seattle details.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's February at Elliott Bay, but I can't remember.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's February 11th at Elliott Bay Books with me and Tom Toro.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Follow me and I'll share a link when I have it, but I don't have it yet.
• 55:35
  Follow Asher Perlman on Instagram and follow his Substack for
• 55:40
  all the details of the
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: book tour.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, buddy.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: And congratulations.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's epic.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love, I mean, the book is ridiculous.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in awe and equally, I hate you very much.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, but all love.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks you so much, man.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're the best.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good night, brother.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: See you.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: See you.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.