Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Throwback! - S4 EP 122 – The World of College Dance Teams - What You Need to Know

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Throwback! - S4 EP 122 – The World of College Dance Teams - What You Need to Know · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Hey listeners, it's Courtney Ortiz, your host on Making Impact, here with our next throwback episode in season seven.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: This week, we're throwing it back to an episode that opened a lot of eyes, especially mine.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Season 4, episode 122, The World of College Dance Teams.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: What do you need to know?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: For so many competitive dancers, college feels like a big question mark.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do you keep dancing?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Do you join the dance team?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: How competitive is it really?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: And what are the coaches actually looking for?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: In this throwback, we pull back the curtains on college dance team life with two industry insiders who break down recruitment auditions, training expectations, and how studio dancers can successfully make the jump to the collegiate level.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a high school dancer and parent planning next steps, or a teacher guiding students forward towards their life after competition, this episode is packed with insight you won't get from Instagram highlight reels alone.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump into our throwback all about the world of college dance teams.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, dance world, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact of Dance Competition Podcast.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Courtney, happy December 1st.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, December 1st.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, we're already here.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even believe it.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um holiday season.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Holiday season.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I am super stoked to go to Paris for the first time in a in like a week and a half.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, I'm so jealous of you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna have the time of your life.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Paris is like the most magical city.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's second in line after New York City.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, well, I if we have any listeners in Paris, I will be there from December 15th to the 20th.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So say hello.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where I'll be.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it's so magical at Christmas.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just, it's I I mean, it's the best, it's one of I keep saying the best city because when I was in Paris for Christmas, I was like, this is the best city in the world.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then I come back to New York and I'm like, oh yeah, New York's the best city in the world.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure like Rome is probably nice, London's probably nice.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Try to go.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: But you're gonna eat all, eat all the bread.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: All the crepes.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: All of the hot they have hot wine on the street, and it sounds terrible.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I am hoping to go see a show at the Moulin Rouge because you have to go see, you know, one of the last showgirl shows in the world, really.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I will report back in the new year, uh, listeners, whether it's care all about it.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_04: I cannot wait.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited for you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: Enjoy every moment.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: I wish I was going on an exciting European escape for the holidays, but I will probably be chilling in New York City in the freezing cold because it's getting cold over here.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's getting cold, but you'll be able to see, you know, the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree and you can go to the holiday markets.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: It really is magical here too.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we're wishing you everyone uh a lovely holiday season, all of our listeners, but we are also really quite honestly, I can't get over the fact that we have this episode today because it is so much fun and I can't wait for everybody to hear it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm we've been wanting to do an episode all about the dance team side of the dance world, which I truly know nothing about, everyone.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like that most of the topics we talk about on making the impact are things that I can absolutely contribute to in one way, shape, or form from personal experience.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: I have absolutely zero experience about the dance team world.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing at all.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Besides just hearing about my local dance, like the local college that I grew up near.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up in Maryland near Towson University and it's a big dance team school.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's the only thing I really knew about dancing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know nothing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: I watch the one I watch the ones on ESPN when they come on sometimes and just marvel at the turn sequences.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: But that's it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, Courtney and I are coming into this really blind, but we are really excited to learn about the world of the dance team and for our listeners as well.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a lot of listener requests for topics like this because dance team is an avenue that competitive dancers can take after school.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: All right, everybody.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's time to jump into this episode all about dance teams and college dance teams.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really excited because I know Leslie, we've talked about this.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: We don't know much about this world.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing at all.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Super excited to learn and to I mean, it's just like the competition world is sort of like its own little world, so must be the dance team world.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: So like they have the whole culture that we don't, you know, we're not a part of, but you know, adjacent.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super excited.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, it definitely it definitely is because I know so many competitive dancers, studio dancers, heading to college and wanting to be on that dance team.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it's highly competitive.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait to learn all about it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: And we it took us a long time to find the perfect guests for this episode, and I truly think we found the absolute perfect guests.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not even gonna lie.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I'm so excited.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_04: So the first guest that I'm excited to welcome is a brand new guest to our podcast, and she's the owner of Tribe 99, which is the industry's number one recruiting event.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: She hosts a recruiting event for high school dancers and college dance teams.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: How exciting! Bridging that gap from high school to college.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's perfect.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's exactly what our listeners need to hear all about.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to welcome the founder of Tribe 99, Carson Rowe.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Carson.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_06: Excited to be here, excited to talk about dance teams.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yay, me too.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to learn all about you and all about the dance team world.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: And really excited to learn about Tribe 99.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like it's something that is really needed for the dance team industry.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: And it sounds like that you're doing some really great things, a lot of choreography as well for the college programs.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'd love to hear more about your journey into the dance team world, your background, how you started, and then what led you to dance team.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then also tell us a little bit about Tribe 99.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, of course.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_06: So I again, my name is Carson.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_06: I actually am from Washington State, which people never really know where I live.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_06: I feel like I'm kind of a always say a gypsy woman because I travel so much.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, I'm from Washington State.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_06: I actually grew up um in a setting that is was kind of a hybrid between a kind of studio, um, typical studio background, uh, with also dance team.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_06: So my background has actually been like since I was much younger, uh, dance team has been kind of at the forefront.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_06: So uh dance on an all-star team where we competed at UDA nationals all throughout, starting at about 10 years old, um, all the way up through high school and then transitioned to college.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_06: I actually had the opportunity just because I was really struggling between bouncing between or dancing between the commercial industries or choosing college dance team.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_06: I was really battling those routes.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_06: So my journey kind of zigzagged a little bit all over the place.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_06: I actually had the opportunity to dance for two college dance teams because I took a break in between and moved to LA for a year.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_06: So I danced uh my freshman year at Washington State University, moved to LA, danced for a year, and then finished out my uh dance, college dance career at the University of Cincinnati.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_06: Shortly after college, right about 23 years old, we started Tribe 99.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_06: So we've been around for about seven years now.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: Uh company started in 2016.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_06: We started as just a choreography company.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_06: Essentially, we just uh started branding choreography to be able to make it just more professional and kind of professionalize an industry that we saw that needed the professionalism.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_06: Started as just a choreography company, but obviously since have expanded into many things.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I know you just mentioned we host a recruiting event.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_06: It's called the Dance Combine, and that has grown significantly over the last six years.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_06: Melissa actually attends and represents Ohio State and the other part of my job, which is exciting, and this is actually how I know Melissa, aside from her being my friend, but we actually got to know each other because I choreographed their Palmer team at Ohio State University.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm actually have her as, or we have the relationship of coach choreographer, and we also have the relationship of her kind of as a recruiter and as a head coach attending our recruiting event.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_06: So it's a unique kind of perspective that we both have.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm excited to be here today.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_06: And she's also super knowledgeable and um sees the sees the industry obviously from the coaching perspective, which is going to be really interesting.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is that is just so great.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: And what a great idea for you to just start Tribe 99 and create that for this this side of the industry.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously on the studio dance side of the world, there's so many guest choreographers and people that come in or create their own kind of brand.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's what you did here.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure that was happening as far as like bringing in guests.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm sure we'll dive into it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Bringing in guests, but you kind of created like a package deal type of thing where you can get, you know, this company, you know what you're gonna get.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: Here's the choreographers, like super smart.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, and then how you branded it and then growing it to this recruiting event.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what could be better?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like that, but not nothing's better than that.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone wants to get recruited to a high profile, high in-demand college.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: So really, really awesome what you're doing for the dance team industry.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm excited to hear more about it and thank you for sharing your story with us.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, of course.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: And also thank you for recommending our next guest to us, who is the head.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we are so grateful because obviously, like I said at the beginning, we were we were kind of struggling casting this because we just are aren't familiar with this world.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: But one thing that we did know is when we were brainstorming who to have, immediately, and I think for most people, when you think of dance team or college dance team, you honestly think of Ohio State University.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you do not think of Ohio State University like you've never heard of a dance team before because they they never turned on ESPN during that one like day where you're like, Oh, yes, the dance teams, the dance teams are on all one day.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, yeah, yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: When it's Ohio State, I can't wait to see Ohio State.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like every we've known about Ohio State as a name in the dance team industry for so long because they are nine time national champions, y'all.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Nine times.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think dance competition folks out there, like when we say national champions, in in in my assumption, that actually means something.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's actually.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas in the dance competition world, like everybody's a national champion.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but like the nine times, like that is actually true.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: It like actually is meaningful.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that we're super stoked.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: We are so excited to have the head coach of the Ohio State University dance team here with us today.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Please welcome Melissa McGee.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, thanks guys.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, you're correct, Leslie.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_05: It does mean a little bit more.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: My my background is actually studio, like all studio based, so a very different background than Carson.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_05: So, first of all, thank you for having me.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I'm from Toledo, Ohio, so I'm actually from Ohio.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_05: Ended up coming to Ohio State for college.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: But prior to that, you know, my background was really growing up in a dance studio.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_05: I sort of did the combo class that everybody does at age two and a half and really never looked back.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_05: Grew up in a very traditional competitive studio.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_05: I also took out a ballet company sort of simultaneously.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: So did that throughout my whole entire year.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: We didn't have dance teams where I was from.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_05: So that was very foreign to me.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: I had no idea what that was.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: I was used to having three solos, seven small groups, 82 productions, you know, just like that was sort of my world.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_05: And so I was uh sort of introduced to dance team in college or in high school, but a very recreational version of what dance team is.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_05: And then actually somebody from my studio went to Ohio State was on their dance team.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_05: It was a very different program at that time.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_05: But I was, you know, super focused on continuing it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: I loved dance and it was a great opportunity for me at the time, primarily socially, if I'm being honest.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's what sort of drove me to um think about it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_05: And then once I got there, I was like pretty hooked on the team aspect of what that was.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: My dad was an athletic director, my mom was a coach growing up.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_05: I was always around athletics, so it was sort of the you know, like this hybrid between my studio background and what I have seen with my parents growing up, and yeah, learned a lot about it sort of head first.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: I was on the team at Ohio State for four years.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_05: We were not anywhere close to what this team is, like from a talent perspective now.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: But I can say that because we've embraced that as alumni.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: And uh yeah, I actually started coaching the year after I graduated very haphazardly, never stopped, and so this is season 12.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, wow.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: That is crazy.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Did you think like when you while you were dancing for Ohio State, did you think in your head, I'd love to be a coach one day?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, was that something like what was what was your goal after college?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_05: No, I was hyper academically focused and uh I like really am very like career oriented.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_05: So I was very interested in getting a corporate job um and working my way up through the ranks, and I did that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: I did work a corporate job right after school, uh, but there was a gap in our coaching staff.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: And so ultimately I was helping to kind of like bridge a gap for a year.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_05: I was the captain of my senior year, so I had already kind of seen the back end, I was very familiar with the program and the people.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: It was a very sort of easy, sort of what I thought would be transitioned to whoever would take over after that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: It's really hard to coach your peers, I found out that first year.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: But ultimately, I sort of saw a vision for the program and I became a little bit like a lot of bit obsessed about really building the program into something that I felt like it could be and never really looked back.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So are you now a full-time dance team person?
• 13:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: I did work in corporate for eight years.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: In in in conjunction with your dance team stuff?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, wow, that's busy.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it was very challenging towards the end, particularly as like both things were like exploding.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_05: Because when I first started coaching, it was very different program, it was a very different time and where we were.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_05: So it was manageable, and we came to a point where you know Carson had a front row view of that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: Like it was impossible to do both.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_05: So ultimately was able to really find an opportunity within the university to still do a little bit administrative outside of like the dance realm to keep that challenge of my life going, but be at the university to essentially primarily coach full-time play.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: That is wild and so interesting.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: But isn't it just so crazy where life takes us?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, totally unexpected, how you weren't planning to be a dance team coach, and here you are today making such a huge impact in the dance team industry, it sounds like.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like I said, I mean everybody knows about Ohio State, y'all.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone knows.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: That's very kind.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate that.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I know there are I I've heard names or seen videos and clips of like other, you know, h uh dance teams that are you know second place, third place, right behind y'all often.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so obviously I think that what you've done is really created a push to, you know, make the industry and elevate the industry even more, which is really exciting.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there's been a a lot of great programs.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we were kind of late to the scene in terms of, you know, people to kind of like really push the industry forward, but sort of really tried to like rapidly grow and catch up and you know, be able to be a part of really the like bridge, honestly, between studio and dance team.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_05: Because I feel like that's been the biggest transition over the past call of I don't know, five years, which has been exciting to watch for me.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, cool.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we know a little bit about our guests, and now we're gonna learn a little bit more about just dance team.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, Carson, you mentioned you I I think it was you, Carson, forgive me, that you did dance team when you were like 10.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so I actually grew up, I guess it was it's it's an interesting setup.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_06: So a lot of people also know my mother, who uh her name is Terry Rowe.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_06: She is actually was my studio owner and dance coach as well.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_06: So she ran our studio and we did essentially what any studio would do.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_06: So, like during the week, we were studio, typically like the typical studio trained kids.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_06: We were taking classes, we were training, we were still going to conventions on the weekends and stuff.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_06: We just weren't competing in that circuit.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_06: Instead, my mom created just because of the, I grew up in a pretty small rural town, the dance opportunities were very limited.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_06: I think like obviously the closest opportunities were in the Seattle area, which was like fully across the state.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_06: So my mom actually started an all-star program, which is essentially similar to like an AAU basketball, like to put it into like terms, which is like all of us came from all around the state and we practiced one day a week.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_06: And then she would take that all-star team and go compete on the national level.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_06: So uh that team and program was called Eastern Washington Elite.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, she uh let the program go right after I graduated.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_06: I was the third kid.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_06: She was ready to just uh enjoy, I think, being a mom finally.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, so I grew up in this kind of hybrid world of we had a lot of commercial and a lot of studio people that you would typically see on a convention circuit as well that worked as our court that choreographed our teams growing up.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_06: So I had this kind of already, I think like obviously a blessing or thank thankful for my mom because she kind of exposed us to a lot of different industries at a really young age.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_06: So yes, I'm super familiar with dance team, but I also kind of had this this standard studio background in the way of which we were training.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, so I mean, my background is definitely very familiar in the dance team world, but I think what she did a great job of is kind of making sure that we were our eyes were open to all industries.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_06: So every summer she would drive us the 20, you know, 20 plus hours down to LA, go train at Edge of Millennium, take class, get exposure there.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_06: So I mean, we were doing so, yes, we were competing as a dance team.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_06: I'm very familiar.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_06: All I've ever known is UDA nationals.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_06: Surprisingly enough, I've actually, I don't know if still to this day, and Listen and I talk about this, ever been to a studio competition, which is blows people's minds because we just didn't compete in that circuit.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_06: Like I've only competed in the realm of dance team, but the training aspect was very similar to that of a studio and convention training and going up to Monsters of Hip Hop and training in LA.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_06: So kind of have this hybrid background.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Would you say that that's normal?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: That because like I didn't know.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that there was I understand all-star cheerleading, like I knew that was a thing for children, kind of like with um Pop Warner, like you kind of graduate from Pop Warner into the next but I didn't realize that was a thing for kids and dance team.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is that normal across the country?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could go to wherever and be like, get on a dance team if I'm 10.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_06: So the all-star community, yes, is normal now.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_06: Like, so there are very there are a lot of all-star programs.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_06: There's a separate from high school, so uh teams are associated with their schools and universities.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_06: There's this other all-star community where they have separate separate uh brands and event producers that are hosting events and pretty much a separate circuit of the dance team world.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_06: So all-star teams are normal.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_06: The background training of like splitting between the training in the studio and going to conventions and doing all the things, and then also doing dance team, I would say is a little bit more rare just because usually when you put your mindset into one focus or one circuit, it's usually you stay in that lane.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_06: So but yeah, all-star teams are still still kicking, still around.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_05: It definitely is a little like regionally based too.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, depending, there's pockets, like you know, Texas is a really big pocket for all-star dance.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not uncommon there per se, for like if you have a you know, a two or three-year-old, you probably have the choice of enrolling in a traditional studio that we all know about, or more of an all-star based studio that would be more team oriented.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: I'll be interesting in Ohio, in Columbus, there's none.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_05: So it could go to a dance study.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: There is a little bit of like a remedial.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_05: Definitely pockets.
• 19:46
  unknown: Okay.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Pocket, but it's growing, I will say that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so explain to me if you were gonna choose at three or four years old to send your child to an all-star team-based kind of program, what are they learning?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: What's the problem?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because we know what tap and ballet combo class looks like for a four-year-old.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does an all-star class look like?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: What techniques are they learning?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear about that.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_06: So essentially, probably about the same.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it is the same.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_06: I was gonna say, so it that's what it's kind of in if you're competing in the all-star world, it's essentially similar to like, again, like any other sport where like your your day-to-day training is the same.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_06: It's just the way that you are competing.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_06: So essentially, as an all-star kid, you're still training at a studio, you're still taking classes at a studio, you're still taking technique and ballet, and the range can go, you know, as as long as so many hours like a studio kid would train or less.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_06: And then on the all-star side of things, you normally have separate team practices.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_06: So, I mean, similar to what they would do for like lines in a studio on the weekend, like a Saturday practice, you'll usually have set aside times where those your all-star teams are practicing together and essentially they're just they're you're only compete or practicing those X number of routines that you're gonna be taking to the regionals and then worlds and summit and whatever the circuit, you know, kind of that you make it, those bid events.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_06: So it's definitely uh I understand why there are so many questions because like in the dance team world alone, there are like so many separate circuits too.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, as as a studio too, but yeah, so you're essentially learning, you're essentially training just like a studio kid.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: It really just boils down to like the circuit that you compete in.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: So like there are dance teams that are associated with the high school, okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_05: Or even like a middle school, rarer, but like middle school, junior high, high school, college that are all associated with their school team.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: And it's very team-based.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: It is on, you're usually going to like a UDA or an NDA type of a competition where it's a standardized score sheet, you are judged as a team.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: And can you tell me what UDA and NDA stand for?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: Universal Dance Association.
• 21:47
  unknown: Okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: National Dance Alliance.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we know this little.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we're asking.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: I just heard of UDA, like create, like I hear UDA and I'm like, that's the one.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like in my head, I'm like, oh, it's UDA.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just have heard that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I I kind of knew what that one meant.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know what the NDA meant.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_06: There's kind of four major four major circ or event producers slash companies or I guess separate different competitions that you could attend.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_06: There's UDA, so Universal Dance Association, NDA, there's DTU, which popped up just a couple years ago.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of teams are transitioning to that one.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_06: And then there's also USA.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_06: So I think those are like the four, I would say the four most common or major ones that you would see a dance team typically compete at.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Got it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry to interrupt you.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it's I was just no, it's just like the only team.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like that's the big, like no solo taking a duo there.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_05: You're not taking a trio.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: Got it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's a team, ride or die, you're with your people, or you're not.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's kind of and then and then I would say on the flip end, you I obviously know studio where it's like you know how that works.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: Solos, duos, trios, small groups, productions, lines, whatever.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's like very whatever, and there's eight billion event producers for there.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: And then like in the middle is this like all-star realm where primarily you would associate with a team, meaning like I'm a part of Dancers Edge All-Stars or PowerWorks Dance, whatever.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like a studio name.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's not a school, so you have no school affiliation.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_05: It's a studio name, but you are judged from a team perspective, like the school teams are, but they also have duos, trios, solos in that world.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I see.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do they compete in the all-star world in the duo trio stuff in different styles?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like in our world?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you can have a lyrical dance, you can have a yeah, yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_05: And like in Ulstar and school team, the biggest style that exists that doesn't exist in studios is pop.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's the big like X factor that I separates it for Pops until I came to college.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like people are like, huh?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like what is that?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: Most people mo most studio dancers don't.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just not a thing unless you're taking a one-off class to prep for dance teams.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's really not incorporated at all into the studio dance world.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: So okay, I think I understand.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: So there's the there's the competitions that are specific for high school and college, and then there's special competitions that are specific to if you created a d a almost like a dance team studio, an all-star dance team studio, and that's specific to the you can only attend these events, but if you're affiliated with your school, then you can go to these events.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: So some dancers are probably doing both.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like some dancers might be on the all-star team, some people are on the high school team, they go to separate competitions but separate teams.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh, this is so confusing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's busy.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_05: About dance team or all-star or any of that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_05: And if like the language is like, oh, I got a partial bid to worlds from right, the bids.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, that's a bid.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and that's also about studio awards.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_06: Like when people are like, oh, I was miss whatever about triple titanium.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: Or like, yeah, like I was platinum.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, is that above?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_06: Like first?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, good.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, what does that mean?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, somebody break this down.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna I wanna get back to the bids because that's confusing, but what I also want to come back to that, I want to give our listeners a good idea of so we're talking about like the training aspect.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we're saying that we're training pretty much similarly, you know, throughout a dance dance studio and an all-star studio kind of place.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it does seem to me, even just watching some of the dance team competitions that I've seen on ESPN, thank goodness for ESPN, and this there seem to be skills that like seem not negotiable.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're gonna be on a competitive level dance team, what do you need to know?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: And how are you learning it?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and also this is just for me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: How are you guys as choreographers and coaches getting these kids to do it so well?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because man, sometimes those turn sequences, I'm like, I don't what's happening?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why this is so good.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Epic.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: They're what I wish I sold at regular studio comp.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wish I'd synchronization.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: Give us your secrets.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: If we're gonna do a turn sequence, that is how you do it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: In the dancing world, that is in it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: You don't want to see it otherwise.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_06: I feel like in general, dance teams move a lot.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_06: I think what a lot of like the misconception or a lot a misunderstanding of the dance team world is the time that it takes to so studios, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_06: Your your your time is split between so many numbers, so many line routines, so many productions, so many things that you're split.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_06: And then you have like consistent training underneath.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_06: When we're talking about the actual high like school team side, so middle school, high school, college, etc., in those team practices, you're not necessarily training.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_06: So you're not, I mean, it is very like you are if in the summer and you are taking technique and you are doing combo classes, so you are training, but that time is really for the coach to make dancer A look like dancer B.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_06: And so, and I think a lot of misconception about dance team is I always get asked this too.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_06: Like, obviously, when I started to kick off a lot of my commercial dance career, people would always say, Well, why are you so clean?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, Well, because we used to spend twelve you know, hours upon hours, like we move at the pace of a snail.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_06: Like dance teams learn their choreography anytime from let's say August to October, and then the next four, three, four months are spent literally just working on those two routines and grinding and like like you are not working aside, okay.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_06: Well, on the college level, you're doing also dancing at basketball, football, doing community appearances, doing this, also the face of the university and part of marketing, but like so there are a trillion other things going on, but I just don't think people are really aware of like the actual attention and time that goes into making those turn combos like what they are because everybody comes in with different turn techniques.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, there is obviously a correct way to do a pirouette, but like people are all trained differently.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_06: And I think obviously Melissa can speak to this more because she is taking kids from all over the country and has to make them dance like a bucca, like an Ohio State kid.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_06: And that's it's a specific thing, like I mean, they have to all dance exactly the same.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_06: So I just don't know.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_06: I think from like a I think people, when I talk to people from the studio world, I think they're most fascinated by the amount of time we are spending on just those two routines to go out there for two minutes and hope it's perfect.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_06: And then if we make it to finals, you get two more minutes of time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_06: But it is like it is a grind of time.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm sure Melissa could probably yeah, add on to that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: I want to say something really fast and just for just to compare for all of our listeners out there that are living in the studio dance world.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Your example of learning the dances and the time frames are exactly identical to ours in the studio world, except you times it by 20 dances for these kids instead of exactly two.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so like that's the difference where people like there are studios now that are starting choreography for 2023 season.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: They started it in July of 2022.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: That means that they have six months until the like that they're already rehearsing that, plus another three until they get to a March competition.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: So they have nine months drilling that choreography, and it's still nowhere as near as clean.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason is because that the kids have 10 or 15 other dances that they're drilling instead of just maybe like less is more, everybody.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: If we want to be like clean like the dance team world, maybe less is more.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_06: Our score sheet is also, I mean, predominantly like I think that's the other massive difference between studio is like you are rewarded for synchronization and uniformity.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_06: Like your job as a like the biggest difference is of dance team is making sure everybody looks the same.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_06: So that's a huge part of our score sheet.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_06: So if you want to be successful in the dance team world, that's why these coaches are excellent at you know what we call cleaning.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_06: I'm sure it's similar to the studio world, but obviously it's just, you know, it is go to count one, know your pinky's out of line, know your eyelashes too far to the right, no, it's very rough.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like uh yeah, it is.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_05: I know it's changed quite a bit, but even for me, you know, growing up in a studio, like I never knew what the score sheet even looked like.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like that wasn't back in the day, like that wasn't something that we talked about.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_05: Obviously, now it's getting definitely like way better.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_05: But for me as a coach, the score sheet is sort of like the thing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: And it's standardized across from a different than us.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: Pretty, pretty standardized, I should say.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's not ex exactly standardized, like not but generally they value generally they value the same things.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's just maybe weighted differently a little bit, but you know, value synchrono, you know, synchronization, spacing, which is MIA, you know, just like it's the value is different and technical difficulty to your point, Leslie, like that's this caption on our score sheet is what technical difficulty are you putting in your routine, which then is why you see the turn sequences or you know, maybe more like skill heavy routines in the dance team world than what you might see in a studio world, just because if we ignore that portion of the score sheet, then we're sort of tanking ourselves from a like strategy perspective.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_05: But what's really interesting is you know, we've worked a lot with studio choreographers just because that's my background.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: And a lot of times the first time I work with a choreographer, they're like, Oh, I do large groups in 10 hours.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: I need 10 hours.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, you're like you're gonna need more than 10 hours.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I I don't know how to tell you this, but in like it it never fails to come in and they're like, I don't I don't know how to do this in 10 hours.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_05: It it takes a very different, like different formula, uh strategy, you know, to kind of get it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and even just like thinking about some of the some of the numbers that I've seen in the past, like the amount of intricate staging that happens in dance team numbers and and canons and just formation changes and it just it's brilliant stuff.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like it I can't imagine that that doesn't take not only time planning in your own brain without probably our you know, one of our sponsors for the podcast, the Arrange Us app, that didn't exist, you know, for a very long time, and people's actual brains were doing that, and that is why I do not choreograph uh large groups, because my brain does not do that, and so that's always really impressive to me.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, no, it's gonna take longer than 10 hours.
• 32:23
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• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: So the level of difficulty, the technical difficulty score, something that I want to ask, and I probably know the answer, but something in the studio dance world is everyone keeps talking about like, well, we're trying to challenge our dancers, and even if it's not technically correct, we want to push them so they can work on it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, the dances that are really hard are what's winning.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: So we have to compete with them, so we have to put hard elements, even if our dancers technically aren't ready for them.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm sure people are thinking that when they hear the technical difficulty element on the dance team side.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: But in my head, I know for a fact that there is no way, shape, or form that a dance team is going to go out there and present something that is technically incorrect.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_04: Is that true?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's balanced equally on the score sheet with technical execution.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: So you have 10 points for difficulty, you also have a 10 point for how you do it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: We need to do that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody needs to change that on our side because that's what it is.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we have an execution, like we have a technique score often, and we have a t an execution score.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: But to have those side by side, are you executing the technique properly?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think we just look at it as a whole, like, okay, well, the execution overall was fine, and then we can like take some points off for technique.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: But like, exactly to your point, if we're doing a turn sequence, and let's say you want to have like a triple float in Alice a con in the in there, but there's a few dancers that just aren't cutting it, then unfortunately you're probably gonna have to reel it back and take it to a double float, but then figure out a way to make it still hard in the sequence without going for that one skill that you really wished you had.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: They're nodding, listeners, they're nodding, they're nodding both together vehemently.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_06: And like our our execution of skill is just so it's just more separate, it's more broken down on our score sheet.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_06: So execution of movement is also a thing, and then execution of skill is separate.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_06: So you're actually obviously getting looked at above the movement quality and dynamics and textures as well as the execution of your skills.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_06: And I think to exactly to your guys' point, just to like agree, I know we were both nodding, but yes, that's exactly what happens.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's why, and again, you're judged on a team scale.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_06: So, I mean, essentially, even if your best dancer can do 17 pirouettes and your um back quarter dancer cannot, you have to find that middle ground.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's the most challenging part, at least of my job as a choreographer, is you know, my end all be all goal is to make that team look like the best team possible.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's what's hard is to find that middle ground.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_06: And then sometimes, you know, you are making calls right before sometimes teams have made it right after semifinals of like we're not hitting this and we have to make this change because that execution side of what we do is is big.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's the 50% of our score sheet.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_05: So wow.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_05: I think for me, coming from the studio world, the score sheet Carson knows she's probably laughing.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_05: I get the passion point for me.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_05: I judge a lot in the dance team world, and so like understanding how that works is like an actual passion of mine.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like not only do we have those the sync caption.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'll be here all day on that topic.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_06: So I think she would start to say, like, also the synchronization and uniformity caption also comes into play while we're doing our skills.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_06: So if you are doing a skill and you do a triple pirouette and you have people that are, you know, off rotation or spots are different or landing differently, like that is not only hitting execution of skill.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_06: You're now talking about synchronization and uniformity.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_06: Usually if somebody bobbles out of space, you're now talking now, you're hitting the spacing caption.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_06: So there are so many captions on the execution side that it's not just if I don't execute a skill, oh, it's only getting docked in that 10 10 point caption.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's now trickling and affecting your whole score sheet.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_06: So that is why there is such an emphasis.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_06: And I think why so many people, when they look at dance teams, they're like, How and why are you so clean?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, the answer is we don't have an option.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_06: It's you're clean and you do well, or you're not clean and you don't.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean Well, and I think that's really important for people to hear because I I know, and we've had we've had a podcast on this cleaning, the cleaning episode.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And cleaning is rough, it is hard, it is long, it is boring, it is tedious.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: People don't like it, you know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Some some people like it if you like to be a cleaner, but like being a part of that that process is difficult.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's there's a lot of you know conversation of well, how long should we really be spending on this?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And da-da-da.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's so boring, and how can we make it fun?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, well, sometimes things aren't fun.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: The fun part is when you win because your dance was so clean.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_06: But it's not fun.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's what, yeah, people obviously I think, yeah, when it comes to the dance team world and I mean in practice, it is not it's not enjoyable.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_06: But what is fun, especially at the collegiate level, you know, there's a lot of sacrifice that goes into joining to continue your career at the college level, your social life, your family life, your you know, insert time, energy, social life, like you are sacrificing a lot of time.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_06: It is a massive commitment.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_06: And so to be there, you know, I'm I'm speaking mostly about the competitive college dance teams because there are teams that don't compete, which is a whole different conversation.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_06: But they, I mean, it takes a lot to be there.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_06: And so essentially, you know, you have to put in that work.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_06: And just like you said, Leslie, I would agree, it's like at that, at that level, what is fun is being good and doing well, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_06: But it's not fun.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's not fun because it's the one part, it's like the you know, as dancers, we're like the creatives and we like to move and tell the story, and it's the one part where your coach is like, stop telling the story, go back to one.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_06: You're like, you know, it's like put your arm very hard.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_06: Like it's it is very, yeah, it's it's not fun.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_06: But the teams that are very good at it, and it's also like a technique.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_06: Like I work, I choreograph for a lot of lots and lots and lots of dance teams, and there are coaches.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um, we have one obviously on this call with us here today who knows how to clean and not sacrifice quality of movement and texture and dynamics and style, which is why Ohio State obviously has been doing so well, is because there's cleaning and then there's also not losing the style and movement and texture behind it.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_06: And so it's also technique to cleaning.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: I have a question, and this is when we're kind of now talking about the transition from high school into the college dance team world, and maybe even the transition of I was a studio kid and now I'm going to college dance team, which maybe they've never dabbled in, maybe they weren't a part of the high school dance team, or things like that.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: Two questions.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_04: Number one, kind of going back to Leslie's question of what are some of those go-to required skills that you have to have to be able to even be considered for the dance team?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_04: And with that, how high of a level of technique do you need to have?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: Where where would where should this dancer be?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Is this dancer who's auditioning for the dance team?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm assuming it probably depends on the caliber of each dance team that they're com you know auditioning for.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_04: But does this need to be a first place overall like the dance awards winner of, you know, type of dancer, or could it be a dancer that's never placed in the top 10 regionally, nationally?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, are they eligible to com be considered as long as their technique's at a certain, you know, level and they have these required skills?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, is the short answer.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_06: I was gonna say, like, she she obviously to dance on a team at like the level of Ohio State, yes.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_06: You need you we're talking, I mean, there's X number.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_06: I'm just I know this is how I break it down to recruits.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_06: I work hand in hand with many, many, many recruits a season.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, let's break it down.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_06: Those top three teams that you're seeing at nationals have maybe five spots per team.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_06: So you're looking at the top 15 kids in the nation that are going to take those spots.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_06: So if you're looking at the caliber of Division 1A or those national championship teams that are putting in the work and the comp they're on the elite competitive scale, yes, you're they are going those coaches are going to be looking for dancers who are extremely different in the tech.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Names, some team names.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_06: So Division 1A level, like major team or teams that are consistently doing well across the board.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_06: You have Ohio State University, you have University of Minnesota, University of Tennessee, Arizona State had just switched, but they they kind of do do well at both UDA and then just switched to DTU, Louisiana State University, LSU on the hip hop category, University of Memphis in the hip-hop category.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_06: These are all division one, uh down to division one, division one at yeah, Texas Tech, GCU, Grand Canyon, those are like the ones that I like.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, St.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_06: Thomas, like University of Soda Mancato, UNLB.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, Minnesota.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, they have a dance team.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_06: University, um, University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_06: So those are all kind of like the ones that we just named, obviously, those are about 10, 12, yeah, Hofstra, like those teams are usually in the one, two, three spots in there's multiple divisions, just similar to football, you know, uh, or basketball or baseball records.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, by the size of your school.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_06: So Division 1A, division, it's just different than any other sports.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_06: So Division 1A is Ohio State, Tennessee, Minnesota, all those big dogs.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_06: And then there's division one, which is GCU, Hofstra, um, I'm trying to think University of Minnesota, St.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_06: Thomas now, Mancato, St.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_06: Thomas now, yeah, moved up.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_06: And then open division, which is uh, you know, can be junior colleges or anything smaller than the D1 level, essentially, D2, D3.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, those are all the schools.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_06: And then, but something that I just want to be clear for, especially for all, I feel like anybody who's listening is I always preach this all the time to any dancer is like if you want to dance in college, there's a spot for you.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_06: It just depends on, like you said, you you hit it on the head, Courtney.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_06: It's the caliber of team that you're looking at and matching that team with your current skill set.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_06: So, yes, you do not have to be a five top five percent, let's, you know, quote unquote in the football terms, five star recruit.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_06: You can be any, you know, having little dance experience and just having you could have full dance team background, zero dance team background.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_06: It doesn't really matter.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_06: I think it just really kind of hones in on what that coach and what that program is looking for.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_06: So I would just encourage anybody who's like interested in dancing in college.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_06: It's more important about finding the right school that like can match your current skill set and your strengths for where you are.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_06: So, but the uh the opportunities are actually limit, like truly limitless for dancers wanting to dance in college and then not to like there is teams that don't get.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_06: Compete too.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_06: They're just on the sideline.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_06: They do game day.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_06: They're involved in their community.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_06: They do, they're just on one side.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_06: And so if you're not even interested in competing and you want to be a part of something and you want to dance on the sideline and still be a part of a team and do fun things through your university, you can definitely find that option too.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_06: So there is such a wide range of opportunity at the college level.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_05: I agree with Carson.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_05: I've like, I think we're both firm believers that like if you want to dance, there's a program for you.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: I think something that like surprises a lot of people when they come to our clinic is if you are talking about, you know, you want to be in a highly competitive, maybe you went to a studio that was highly competitive and you want to keep on that journey.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: And so you're looking at more of the competitive programs, it becomes less and less about what skills you can do, and way more about are you a fit for the team in other ways, which is something that I don't think a lot of people put as much time into thinking about.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_05: But for me, it's like where all my time is spent.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: So it's just an interesting like way to look at like yes, you have to have baseline technique, and there is a bar, of course.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: But when I, you know, when we're getting into our selection process, because we run a recruiting model, we don't have enough open audition, it's so much more important to me of like I like to laugh at practice, I like to have a good time.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm also a pretty like direct person.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_05: So like there's certain like personality traits, and like Carson, you know, will tell me like you love this person because X, Y, and Z about your program.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, there's like the that fit that has nothing to do with like, can they do seven pirouettes or they're hyper flexible or they whatever.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it's because once you get to that top, those top, top, top, that top percentage of dancers coming out of high school, they can all essentially do like if you break it down, they essentially, I mean they're all they can all do five plus pairwaves, they can all do two plus leg holds, they can all do aerials on both sides.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_06: Like they all, if you look at their actual like baseline skill, they can typically all do the same.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_06: And then essentially what makes somebody different to like Melissa's point is just that that X factor, the movement quality, dynamics, who they are as a person, their character, their work, ethic, you know, that that all the extra stuff that comes into it when you're looking at those like top schools.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_05: When you're on hour seven of cleaning, like I'm going to be tomorrow at 5 30 p.m.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_05: in the emotional room, like who's with me still?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right, yeah, right.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Who's who's like flailing and failing and who's still there?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think nothing to do with how many turns you can do at that point.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's who's alive.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_05: Who's alive out there?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_05: Who's alive?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: And who's still positive and who's still like ready to do the thing.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big thing.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think we talk about that a lot with the kids, even with like, you know, getting awards and being gracious and being good to each other and being good to people that you don't even know at a competition.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: It comes down to in your rehearsal room too.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I didn't, I didn't do a sorority stuff in college, but it like your recruitment process sounds a little bit like that in that, you know, it it's less about, yeah, you have to be able to do pirouettes, but like you also have to be somebody who's willing to be like, cool, Coach Melissa, like I'm here.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you need me to do on hour seven?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like just be game for it and be excited as opposed to being like, okay, another pirouette.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: I have another question.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: This recruiting process.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: So how does that work?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because you just said that Ohio State does not have auditions.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: So let's say there's a dancer and their goal in life, they are growing up in the studio, they're doing 20 plus dances, they're at Star Power Nationals, whatever.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_05: And they So they better be Miss Star Power.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: But they want to be on the Ohio State dance team, but they're not in affiliated in that dance team world.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think that you're recruiting and scouting at Star Power Nationals.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: So, how are they getting recruited for the the team?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: You might be tell us more about it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us more.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like you go to studio comps and recruit people.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: You can.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, all the time.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: So Do you tell people about this?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we put it on our Instagram.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we're going to Radix Indy.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Does Radix tell anybody?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is the other question because I don't I this is the first we're hearing of this.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_05: That's no, we're actually like bridging that gap.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: But like I guess there's two, there's two kind of different like parts of how the recruiting process works.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I don't know, Carson, when did we, I don't even know.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_06: Like five years ago, like we found your f your first recruiting class was 2018, technically.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_06: 2018 was your first recruiting class starting to college in 2019.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: You used to operate on like a traditional just open audition, then it went to like submit a video to be invited.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of teams still operate in that process.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: And then ultimately we got pushed for our administration.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_05: Like every other support that we have at Ohio State recruits.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: Why do you have an open call if you want to be like the best team in the country and be treated like a sport?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_05: Great question.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: So we flipped and then it's become a little bit of a trend.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: But what Carson has been able to do with Tribe is develop combines, which you can speak more to, but yeah, essentially like open recruiting events where we can go and get a ton of bang for our buck as coaches.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_05: Because we can see kids from all over the country do a lot of different like elements, maybe not everything we need, but like enough to know like who should be on our radar and then also have an opportunity to speak to them.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_05: So we have combines, we have clinics that we host in our own, you know, place, and then we also go out to wherever.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: Scout.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: And Carson have a better idea of like who all does that.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_05: I just thought for me, that's a really important data point on like my end of seeing people in their own element and like competing.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I mean I want to know just really quickly, because we're talking about college, like, obviously, you have to get into this college academically to be able to even be considered to be recruited.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, parents out there, like, let's get their kids some A pluses.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you get recruited first, and then like let's say, like, you go to Raddox, you see a dancer that blows your mind, you want to say, I want to recruit you for the Ohio State dance team, but we need to get you into the school.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: Are you even like what if that dancer, that dancer's like, I have no desire to go to Ohio State?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_04: I've like, or maybe they will, maybe it'll change their mind and say, Okay, well now I need to work harder to get my grades up so I can get accepted into the school because I have this opportunity type of thing.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it happens every which way.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's happened where like we see a kid at our clinic, we're like, whoa, she's really good.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_05: Let's get to know her.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, I don't really want to go to school.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_05: I just came with my friend.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, cool.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_05: Like no big deal.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_05: Or yeah, or like someone comes to us and then we go to a competition, or I see somebody at a combine, and then we continue the relationship, or like what have you.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_05: But it used to be a lot more convincing kids that dance team wasn't like a death sentence in terms of like technical training and development and like the end of your career.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like now that we've had a lot more like I don't know, high profile or or really just like stronger dancers come through the program that have grown a lot.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_05: It is now way more like way less, at least for me, about like convincing people to think about dance team as it is finding the right fit.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Carson, tell us about your recruiting process with Tribe.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_06: So I just I'm gonna break also down this down really quickly because I feel like there's always a lot of questions about this.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_06: So technically in college, there's three different team selection models that currently programs are using.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_06: There's recruitment, which is like Ohio State, um, a lot of the Division I schools, but also Division I schools, it's becoming the popular go-to team selection model, essentially, in our industry.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_06: Then there's the audition model, which is the old school model.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_06: That's how I got onto a college team, that's how Melissa got on a college team.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_06: It was you show up, you audition, you make it, you don't.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_06: And then there's this hybrid model of like, I'm gonna recruit you to my audition, and then I will choose based off of that audition.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_06: So there's essentially three different models that teams are using.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_06: Recruitment is becoming much more popular.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_06: And so, because of that, we started, like I said, the event is called the Dance Combine.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_06: And then since then, we've also started the expo.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_06: The Dance Combine is essentially a recruiting event that is designed to connect high school dancers to college coaches.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_06: So we will have upwards of 40 plus college coaches who are in attendance at our events, like 40 programs and upwards of you know, 300, 250, 300 dancers that come in.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_06: And they essentially, it's very similar to like an NFL combine, right?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_06: Where you come in and you do certain set skills.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, let's let's we're gonna, you're gonna do a triple, you're gonna do a quad, you're gonna do as many pairwites as you can do.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_06: You're gonna do a toe touch, you're gonna show your back flexibility, you're gonna show your acro ability.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_06: Like it's like on the skill front, it's like, let's let's show these coaches what you can do skill-wise.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_06: And then we also run it kind of like a convention on the first day where we teach masterclass combos and jazz, hip-hop, and palm, which are the three, the three categories that you can compete in at the college level.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_06: And then they perform those combos for the coaches.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_06: And then on top of that, there's these coach connection, coach connection portions where coaches, uh kids walk around, and essentially it's like around, you know, like pretty much like a career fair.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_06: You get to walk around, yeah, network with the college coaches.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_06: College coaches can say, Hey, I was really interested in you, you know, please come to my clinic.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_06: So that's essentially kind of like the breakdown of our event.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_06: And then the expo started back in 2020 and actually had to shift to virtual, obviously for obvious reasons the first year.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_06: But that event is designed to connect elite-level coaches with uh um elite level dancers.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_06: So that the those kids are hand selected and there's an application process to get them in.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_06: And then, like I said, that that event is more designed for those college coaches that are looking for that top percent of recruit coming out of high school on the skill level, the skill front.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_06: So really exciting thing.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_06: It's grown, I think, five times since 2017.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_06: It's um becoming a model.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it seems really needed.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like if it's that, if it's that big of an industry, um, which I didn't realize the whole I mean, I guess I understood the divisions, but that's just that's a lot of schools.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like you're saying, there's schools that don't even really compete.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's schools that, you know, you cheer on the sidelines or you dance on the sidelines, and that's it's a lot.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have thoughts, but I want to ask this question first.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: Dance team versus BFA degree at college.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_04: There are universities that have a dance program with a BFA, Bachelor in Fine Arts, and of course, in the studio world, you're pushed to go in that direction.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone says, get your BFA, get your BFA, you need a dance degree, which do we need a dance degree?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_04: We've talked about it on the podcast, y'all.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, are you able, if you're if you're a school that you go to, for example, I'm immediately thinking of Towson University.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up in Maryland, Towson University has a big dance team, but they also have a really great BFA dance program.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: Can you be receiving a BFA and dance and also be on the school dance team at the same time?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: Is that frowned upon?
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: Is it just absolutely not possible with the time commitment?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have to pick and choose?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: What's the deal with that?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I can make this one out of the short answer.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I'm like, go for it.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, you can.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_05: We've had people, particularly in the earlier years of my coaching career, that have done both.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_05: I would say there's two sort of like limiting factors.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_05: One is their body, because most dancers, by the time they get to college, have danced for a really long time.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_05: And so you're dancing if you're going from a BFA all-day dance curriculum to then a dance team practice, like upwards of eight to ten hours a day on you know, a regular basis, which some people's bodies just can't handle that at that point.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_05: The second thing is like on more of the like hyper competitive, elite dance teams, it is so much more of a holistic commitment that like really doesn't meet the eye that it would be very challenging.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_05: So not only are you have your rehearsal, your practice time three to four times a week, but then you also have your strength and conditioning, you also have sports psychology, you also have nutrition, you also have you know, um, academic requirements.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like it is a very holistic task of those kids.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_05: So it's just a lot.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know that somebody could be like ultimately really happy and not burn out at the end of their four years by doing by doing both at the highest level.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's really it depends.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_06: Certain there are certain college programs, and the way that the college program is structured allows for more flexibility.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_06: So I would encourage any dancers that are looking at that because it is I would I don't want to say common, but it is there are some uh college programs that they're whether they're less competitive or whether they just are the way that their program is structured, there might be some more freedom for somebody to be able to do both.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_06: So it's it's out there, like the opportunity is out there.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_06: It just kind of depends on on what level.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_06: Obviously, like a team like in Ohio State, when the level is so high, the expectations are so high.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_06: Well, they don't get that good by just not pre like that is hours and the time and the commitments and the things.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_06: So to do that on top of like the you know, academic regimen that it takes to get, you know, a BFA, I feel like is very challenging.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's something that my like my the other thing I wanted to add to that is that just he even just how much I've learned from listening to you both about the dance team world and something that I've always kind of thought when it comes to BFA versus dance team.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: The great thing about dance team is that you can get a degree in something that will help you.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: So you can go to school, you can get a degree in accounting or marketing or business, I don't care what it is, whatever you're passionate about that you want to learn about, that you can use as continuing education and also a potential career down the road where the degree matters.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying dance degrees don't matter, and we've talked about this a ton on the podcast.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's great for these dancers that want to keep dancing their life, can still get that degree, can still have that social college atmosphere with the football games and and the teen at aspect, then also keep their training up and keep their skills alive.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, networking at the same time where they do have a choice once they graduate at that point, where they've been training like hardcore for four years on the dance team.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: They can go into the professional world if they want, and they have a degree that's gonna help them down the road.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's to me, it feels like the best of both worlds.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think you've nailed that on the head.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like it is definitely the best option if you want a more quote, I would say quote, because it's it's a lot of commitment, but quote, traditional college experience where you, especially at the you know, D1A schools where you're at a big school, there's usually a lot of school spirit, you get that whole like college feel, you know, but you're still maintaining your training.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_05: And if not getting, you know, hopefully at the end of the four years, you're getting better.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's that is to me a little bit more of like the difference than like the DFA route per se.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Are there opportunities for male or binary dancers, non-binary dancers in the dance team world?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know it has, you know, traditionally like a lot of dance has been dominated by women.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Great question.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm really curious now, uh, because I know there's been, you know, plenty of male cheerleaders out there, but for the for our male and non-binary dancer friends, can they go be on a dance team?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_06: They absolutely can.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_06: Lots of opportunities.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_06: And it's actually, I think, as you're seeing with everything else, it's just there's increased opportunities and it's becoming way more popular and accepted.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that it's really actually cool to see uh a team that I would encourage everybody to obviously look into is uh University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_06: They have um actually a separate like company that's uh predominantly dominated or predominantly included or has male dancers in it, um, but those male dancers also compete with the females.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_06: So they have a co-ed team, and this is just one example of many on the collegiate level that bring co-ed teams to nationals, and so yes, there's definitely opportunities.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_06: I agree, you know, obviously predominantly has been a woman-dominated sport, but you are definitely seeing an increase of I feel like representation as a whole at the national level, which is pretty cool to see, and specifically a lot more male dancers that are showing up.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_06: So it's awesome.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I love I love it.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_06: It's a whole different dynamic, but I love it.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_05: And a lot of the NFL, not a lot, but you know, I know a couple instances of the NFL male cheerleaders are actually coming from the dance team side.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_05: So that's kind of a a path that has worked for a few.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_05: Nice.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's really cool.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: This is so exciting.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like we need to have a 2.0 and get you guys back out here and do this again in like another season or two because I just still have so many more.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: We really do, and we don't have any more time.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's all been so interesting and exciting.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, oh man, we didn't have dance team where I grew up.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now I kind of want to go back in time.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, like, but I mean, that's like you know, grass, grass is always greener.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, people think I think what's so cool, and Melissa kind of said this or like hinted at it, but we have it again, aside from working together, we are extremely close friends, and so we have conversations like this all the time.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_06: And I think what's exciting, and I think why we were excited to be on your guys' podcast today, is because we are always wanting to be a part of the conversation of okay, how do we close the gap?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_06: Because these industries are actually all the same.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, essentially, there are differences.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they just they walk the same path, you know.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_06: Like they all parallel each other, and we all have this passion for dance, but for some reason, there's always a misconception, studio kids, which like I feel like Melissa has done a great job along with other coaches in the country, that they have cracked the code of like, okay, like they know how to communicate to studio kids.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like, it's okay if you've never held a palm.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's okay if you don't, because you can still be successful.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think what we're seeing, and again, why why I'm so happy to be here today and like be talking about this is because we have those conversations all the time of like we got to close the gap because there are so many studio dancers that think that their only opportunities are to go the commercial industry route, move out to LA audition, or stop dancing, right or BFI.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_06: So it's like, no, no, no, there are way more opportunities out here.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_06: So, and then the same thing to be honest, on the dance team side, when you're talking studio dancers, those studio dancers usually come with more training.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_06: So it is like the gold, you know, it's it's gold for college college coaches.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_06: They want studio dancers who have train in ballet and who are putting in the hours weekly to get their technique standard where they need to go.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_06: So it's just closing the gap.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_06: So I think we always have this conversation, always all the time.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_06: So I think I'm I was excited to get on here and talk about it today because it is it's something that needs to happen.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean to have others in the conversation.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and Courtney and I are really good friends, so it's nice to have like a lot of friends just because we exactly the same.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we we do this for sort of work, but like we also do this in our life.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the conversation is just always alive.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: This is awesome.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much, Melissa and Carson, for sharing so much knowledge about the dance team world.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_04: I truly learned so much listening to y'all.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: Now I feel like I just have a whole new perspective of the dance in a great way.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_04: Not that I ever had a bad perspective.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: I just didn't know.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was oblivious.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: I was clueless about the dance team world, truly.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really exciting to hear all the opportunities and thank you for uh to you both for just creating such great programs and atmospheres on your team and things like that.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: I think our listeners are gonna be so pumped about this episode.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_04: So can't wait to hear their thoughts.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much again.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_04: How we have our guests usually lead us out is just with one final thought on the topic.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_04: So if you want to talk to the dancers out there, if you have any advice to give them, if you have any advice for parents, anything you'd like to share in regards to the dance team world.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I would just say, you know, for mostly for parents, because I'm assuming that's primarily the the you know audience here, but even for dancers, my like ask would be to like give dance team a shot and to learn more about it.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_05: And it might not be for you or your your child, but I think it is a really great option for people that, like I said, want to go on to college and also want to continue using the training that the parents paid lots and lots of money for.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_05: And not to mention, my parents on our team have a great time.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um they get their own little social network out of out of the gig as well.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_05: So that would be my two things.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, I would essentially say the same thing.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_06: I think more so talking to any high school dancers out there.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_06: I think there's just I think we're getting past it, but there's just still such a misunderstanding about what dance teams are.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_06: And so uh to Melissa's point, I think I would just encourage everybody to do as much research as possible.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_06: All these um teams usually have Instagram pages or websites where you can get information.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_06: And then the last thing I'll say is just um in kind of our work in all the facets of Tribe 99 that we do, we work with literally thousands of high school dancers um in a season.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_06: And so through that, it is just if you're feeling frustrated or you're feeling like, oh my God, I had no clue this was out there.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_06: I'm a senior, what do I do?
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_06: You're hitting the panic button, just realize that like you're not alone and like everybody feels like this.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_06: The recruiting scene is like very it's still fresh, it's still new.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_06: So just like take it, take it slow, try to get as much research as possible, try to attend a clinic, try to get as much exposure.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_06: But I just think you often see a lot of like parents, especially who are like, oh no, we're behind, and then they start to panic.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_06: And so just and then the last thing is just there's an opportunity out there.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_06: If you want to dance at college, there's a spot for you on some team.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_06: So go after it.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: We hope you learned something new listening back to our throwback, the world of college dance teams.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_04: Huge shout out to our special guests, Melissa and Carson, for joining us on this chat.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: You can find Melissa at MMC65 and Carson at Carson.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: Join now at ImpactGance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: Next up on Making the Impact, look forward to a day in the life of competition and convention staff, a throwback episode about the open category, and an episode all about diversity in the competition world.