Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: How To Have a More Compassionate Relationship With Your Body

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#HURDLEMOMENT: How To Have a More Compassionate Relationship With Your Body · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: So if something is giving you more anxiety than information,
0:03
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily need to be seeing that in your
0:06
Speaker 1: news feeds and your push notifications all the time.
0:22
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily here, come in to you from the
0:25
Speaker 2: AG studio.
0:27
Speaker 3: You are listening to Hurdle.
0:29
Speaker 2: A wellness focused podcast where I connect with everyone from
0:31
Speaker 2: your favorite athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about
0:35
Speaker 2: their highest highs, toughest moments, and everything in between.
0:39
Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life.
0:42
Speaker 2: And my goal through these discussions is to empower you
0:45
Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intentions so that
0:48
Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
0:51
Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. Today, for Hurdle moment,
0:56
Speaker 2: I am so excited to be chatting with my friend
1:00
Speaker 2: and new author, Casey Geurin. She's got a new book
1:04
Speaker 2: coming out called It's Probably Nothing, The Stress Blessed Guide
1:08
Speaker 2: to dealing with Health, anxiety, a wellness fads and over
1:11
Speaker 2: hyped headlines, and today we are chatting about the topic
1:15
Speaker 2: of how to have a more compassionate relationship with your body. Listen,
1:20
Speaker 2: life is stressful, right, Anxiety these days, especially in the
1:24
Speaker 2: age of coronavirus. It is what seems like ambient, And
1:28
Speaker 2: so Casey and I are addressing how to just take
1:32
Speaker 2: a deep breath and navigate a lot of the things
1:35
Speaker 2: that we're stressing about day by day. I'm talking about
1:38
Speaker 2: the stuff that you're heading over to Google and you're asking,
1:41
Speaker 2: and we love this phrase, is XYZ normal? Casey gives
1:44
Speaker 2: examples like is my period normal? Is my right boom
1:49
Speaker 2: bigger than my left boom normal?
1:51
Speaker 3: Is it normal to sweat at four pm? Every day?
1:54
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
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Speaker 2: I'm just throwing out things into the stratosphere universe right now,
1:58
Speaker 2: but you get what I'm saying. We all freak out
2:00
Speaker 2: so much, especially when it comes to our health, and
2:03
Speaker 2: Casey and I talk about how we both have certainly
2:06
Speaker 2: done this in the past, and she offers up tons
2:08
Speaker 2: of tips and research backed suggestions of how to navigate
2:12
Speaker 2: this anxiety on the day to day, how to be
2:15
Speaker 2: just more compassionate with yourself. I really love this conversation.
2:19
Speaker 2: Casey is a veteran editor. I have met her during
2:23
Speaker 2: my journey in the journalism space here in New York City,
2:26
Speaker 2: and so.
2:26
Speaker 3: She has literally interviewed and spoke.
2:28
Speaker 2: With so many top experts on her journey to becoming
2:32
Speaker 2: an expert herself. So you can trust that there is
2:35
Speaker 2: a lot of really great tidbits in this episode. Make
2:38
Speaker 2: sure you're following along with Hurdle over on Socialists at
2:41
Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast. I'm over at Emily a body and exciting
2:44
Speaker 2: that the membership kicks off this Friday.
2:48
Speaker 3: And I've mentioned this before, but.
2:49
Speaker 2: Tons of great members only exclusive perks like regular journaling prompts,
2:55
Speaker 2: exclusive message boards, and an event that I've been putting
2:58
Speaker 2: together with my dear friend Adrian Williams in mid month,
3:02
Speaker 2: a one on one chat talking about what the first
3:05
Speaker 2: value that we're going to be focusing on community means
3:08
Speaker 2: to each of us. I would love for you to
3:10
Speaker 2: get in on the membership. For more details and to
3:13
Speaker 2: sign up, text the word membership to seven three two Hurdler. Again,
3:17
Speaker 2: that is, text the word membership to seven three to
3:20
Speaker 2: two Hurdler.
3:22
Speaker 3: And with that, let's get to hurdling. Today.
3:36
Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with Casey Gearan. She is a new author,
3:41
Speaker 2: an old friend of mine in the journalism world. Her
3:44
Speaker 2: new book coming out is called It's Probably Nothing.
3:47
Speaker 1: How you doing, Casey, I'm doing good? How are you.
3:51
Speaker 3: I'm so good.
3:51
Speaker 2: I love connecting with old friends for the show. It
3:55
Speaker 2: just like brightens my day.
3:57
Speaker 1: I know, I'm so grateful to be talking here about
3:59
Speaker 1: this because I feel like we have these conversations not recorded,
4:03
Speaker 1: and they always feel like we're solving the world's problems.
4:06
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to get into it.
4:08
Speaker 3: Health journalists doing their thing.
4:11
Speaker 2: Well, you have an extensive background in reporting and journalism,
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Speaker 2: So why don't we shed a little bit of light
4:19
Speaker 2: on your expertise and how you got to the point
4:21
Speaker 2: where you were writing and reporting this book.
4:24
Speaker 1: Sure, So I got started in women's magazines, which was
4:29
Speaker 1: always like the biggest dream of mine. So in like
4:32
Speaker 1: middle school, high school, I mean, women's magazines were my escape,
4:37
Speaker 1: my entertainment, my education in a lot of respects, because
4:42
Speaker 1: come on, Cosmo and seventeen and Women's Health totally taught
4:46
Speaker 1: you more than sex in did, for sure, and I
4:50
Speaker 1: wanted to be the one writing those stories and interviewing
4:54
Speaker 1: those experts. So I went to college for both journalism
4:58
Speaker 1: and psychology. Notice that a lot of articles quoted psychologists.
5:02
Speaker 1: I'm like, that'll be helpful. And then I was lucky
5:06
Speaker 1: enough to intern in college in magazines I started at
5:10
Speaker 1: interning at Cosmo, at Women's health at psychology today, which
5:17
Speaker 1: just side note is I think such a privilege to
5:19
Speaker 1: begin with, because there's definitely a lot of gatekeeping, as
5:22
Speaker 1: you know, in the media industry, and the people that
5:27
Speaker 1: are able to take those internships end up getting those
5:30
Speaker 1: connections and getting to get into those positions. And that's
5:34
Speaker 1: definitely what happened to me. After college. I had the
5:39
Speaker 1: opportunity to work at Cosmo because I'd already interned there,
5:42
Speaker 1: and I was immediately drawn to the health sections because
5:47
Speaker 1: I was always really stressed out and worried about my
5:51
Speaker 1: body and my health, and those were always the articles
5:53
Speaker 1: that I read first. So I started writing for like
5:59
Speaker 1: the Cosmo Bodies, Cosmo Gino, and I mean, this is
6:03
Speaker 1: way back in the day, and I found it way
6:08
Speaker 1: more interesting to interview those doctors, researchers, psychologists than interviewing
6:15
Speaker 1: celebrities no offense celebrities, And yeah, it was just it
6:20
Speaker 1: was fascinating getting to talk to these people and then
6:22
Speaker 1: distill it into information that people could actually understand and
6:26
Speaker 1: find entertaining.
6:27
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the fact that you also studied psychology
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Speaker 2: or undergrad I haven't said this out loud anywhere yet,
6:34
Speaker 2: but I'm saying it right now with you. I've been
6:36
Speaker 2: thinking a lot about going back from my master's in psychology.
6:40
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you would be an amazing therapist.
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Speaker 2: Well, I just find that, I mean, to your point
6:47
Speaker 2: about reading all of these articles and reporting all these
6:51
Speaker 2: articles and working with all these experts, I feel as though,
6:54
Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to make this about me, but
6:56
Speaker 2: I like, I'm a certified trainer and I'm a front coach,
7:00
Speaker 2: and I have this like Level one precision nutrition certification,
7:02
Speaker 2: But the area where my interests are actually most like
7:07
Speaker 2: present really has to do with like the mind and
7:10
Speaker 2: the body and talking about how we feel and exercising
7:14
Speaker 2: aspects of self help.
7:16
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I've just been thinking about that.
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Speaker 2: But I really admire that that was something that you
7:20
Speaker 2: paired with your experience, and I can totally identify with
7:23
Speaker 2: you when you say that you found it most interesting
7:26
Speaker 2: to talk to a lot of experts in these fields
7:28
Speaker 2: when it came.
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Speaker 3: To your reporting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, even like those I had to
7:34
Speaker 1: take like stats classes for psych majors, which was reading
7:39
Speaker 1: all those really jargony long dense studies that now I
7:45
Speaker 1: do on a day to day basis, you know, for
7:46
Speaker 1: my job. So I do think there's definitely value there
7:50
Speaker 1: in getting more education around the topic that you're going
7:53
Speaker 1: to be covering a lot. But yeah, I kept diving
7:59
Speaker 1: deeper into health reporting and editing. I went to Women's Health,
8:02
Speaker 1: where I was covering their health and their sex sections online,
8:06
Speaker 1: and then I went to BuzzFeed, which was of course
8:08
Speaker 1: a crash course in digital media. And there's nothing that
8:13
Speaker 1: I'll tell you more about what people are interested in
8:16
Speaker 1: consuming on the Internet than working at BuzzFeed and having
8:20
Speaker 1: access to all of that data for that huge audience
8:23
Speaker 1: in like twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen was when I
8:26
Speaker 1: was there and again covering health, So it was seeing
8:29
Speaker 1: like what people around the world and all sorts of
8:32
Speaker 1: demographics were interested in reading about health and wellness. And
8:36
Speaker 1: then I landed at Self Magazine, first as their health
8:41
Speaker 1: director and then as executive editor, So then it was
8:44
Speaker 1: more the content strategy aspect of like what are we
8:47
Speaker 1: covering in health and why not so much doing the
8:51
Speaker 1: writing and editing on a day to day basis as much.
8:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, I would have been health writing and editing
8:57
Speaker 1: for about ten years now, and I just recently pivoted
9:02
Speaker 1: out of on staff media. I know that you did
9:06
Speaker 1: a similar thing, so you can totally relate. But yeah,
9:09
Speaker 1: for me, I was already kind of thinking like, maybe
9:12
Speaker 1: this is a good moment to try something new. I've
9:15
Speaker 1: been all consumed with health and wellness content for a
9:20
Speaker 1: very long time, and as someone who was also very
9:22
Speaker 1: anxious about my body, very stressed about my health all
9:25
Speaker 1: the time, it did feel like it was kind of
9:28
Speaker 1: all consuming. Yeah, and then COVID hit and it was
9:33
Speaker 1: even more all consuming. And I know at that moment
9:38
Speaker 1: felt like I am so lucky to be surrounded by
9:41
Speaker 1: these incredible talented journalists, amazing editors. I feel like they
9:48
Speaker 1: got this, and I think I can kind of pivot
9:50
Speaker 1: off the ladder for a bit. Maybe I'll hop back
9:53
Speaker 1: on later but and get back to just kind of
9:56
Speaker 1: doing what I fell in love with at the start,
9:58
Speaker 1: which was health recording and doing some editing. So that's
10:02
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now. And it was at that time
10:05
Speaker 1: that I was starting to work on this book, So
10:07
Speaker 1: of course a lot of self reflection about health, stress
10:12
Speaker 1: and anxiety and how both the media and the wellness
10:16
Speaker 1: industry kind of plays into that and how to navigate
10:18
Speaker 1: that and your own relationship with your health and your
10:21
Speaker 1: body in a little bit healthier, more mindful way.
10:25
Speaker 2: Right right, And you know it's so I love how
10:28
Speaker 2: you put it, like I figured it was safe for
10:30
Speaker 2: me to take a step back and that the other
10:32
Speaker 2: journalist warriors in the world could like take the reins
10:36
Speaker 2: during this global pandemic.
10:39
Speaker 1: Right, I had no doubt that self and the rest
10:43
Speaker 1: of you know, the health journalists out there, we're going
10:46
Speaker 1: to cover this with the responsibility and accuracy you know,
10:51
Speaker 1: and compassion that it needed. And I wanted to also be,
10:56
Speaker 1: you know, there covering it, helping out. And I just
10:59
Speaker 1: felt like I could be a little bit more helpful
11:01
Speaker 1: from the sidelines and not necessarily up at the top
11:04
Speaker 1: of that masthead, right, Yeah, yeah.
11:06
Speaker 3: For sure.
11:07
Speaker 2: Well, I also appreciate you shedding some light on your
11:10
Speaker 2: journey to get to where you are today, because I
11:12
Speaker 2: do think of this as a popular question, right, like
11:15
Speaker 2: how did you get to be the XYZ at this
11:18
Speaker 2: XYZ title? And there is a lot of you know,
11:21
Speaker 2: hard work and dedication and many years of what I
11:24
Speaker 2: would say or refer to as dedicated service to get
11:27
Speaker 2: to be closer and closer to the top of these
11:31
Speaker 2: top editorial masth heads. So really really beautiful in a
11:34
Speaker 2: testament to your work ethic to see where you ended
11:37
Speaker 2: up and now I selfishly am excited to see you
11:40
Speaker 2: kind of step into your own and doing your own thing,
11:42
Speaker 2: because I certainly can co sign that it is a
11:46
Speaker 2: very liberating and special opportunity to not only kind of
11:50
Speaker 2: go in your own direction, but also learn about the
11:53
Speaker 2: things that interest you and the things that excite you
11:55
Speaker 2: and spread your wings in the way that feels really
11:57
Speaker 2: natural to who you really are instead of, you know,
12:00
Speaker 2: going by the parameters of whatever brand you happen to
12:03
Speaker 2: be working with.
12:05
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, yeah, it's been so it's been so interesting
12:09
Speaker 1: too to get to work with so many of them.
12:12
Speaker 1: I'm sure you had this experience too, so many friends
12:15
Speaker 1: colleagues that now are at different brands. It feels like
12:19
Speaker 1: I don't want to make freelancing seem like always the
12:21
Speaker 1: best thing. Ever, it is hard. It's hard. It is
12:25
Speaker 1: very hard. But it also feels sometimes like you're just
12:27
Speaker 1: getting to work with all of your favorite people and
12:30
Speaker 1: you won't always get to do that when you are
12:32
Speaker 1: on staff because you are very siloed.
12:35
Speaker 3: Very true very true.
12:36
Speaker 2: Well, let's pivot a little bit now and talk about
12:39
Speaker 2: this new chapter. Like I said, new author of a book,
12:42
Speaker 2: it's probably nothing The stress Less Guide to dealing with Health, anxiety, wellness,
12:46
Speaker 2: bads and overhyped headlines. Wow, I'm sure that title wasn't
12:50
Speaker 2: something that just popped out one day.
12:53
Speaker 1: It certainly wasn't. No, it's so funny because this title was.
12:58
Speaker 1: It felt like a very lofty subject even before COVID,
13:03
Speaker 1: and now it feels like the stakes are so much
13:06
Speaker 1: higher when it comes to navigating the health information and
13:10
Speaker 1: misinformation that's out there and not freaking out about your
13:14
Speaker 1: body and your health every single day, which is an
13:16
Speaker 1: ongoing challenge. Sure a lot of other people.
13:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I can totally relate that.
13:22
Speaker 2: I feel like in the last eighteen or so months,
13:26
Speaker 2: my definition of normal, like with many others I'm sure,
13:30
Speaker 2: has certainly shifted. And I literally last week took a
13:35
Speaker 2: deep breath for the first time and almost felt as
13:38
Speaker 2: though it was the first time I took a deep
13:40
Speaker 2: breath that I didn't feel like that air in my
13:42
Speaker 2: lungs was being met with like a stone wall that
13:46
Speaker 2: it couldn't get through. I could not remember the last
13:49
Speaker 2: time that I had taken a breath like that and
13:51
Speaker 2: didn't feel like just this overwhelming mounting anxiety, and I
13:56
Speaker 2: was like, wow, I forgot what this felt like.
13:59
Speaker 1: Right. I think that so many of us are in
14:01
Speaker 1: this constant state of whether it's low level anxiety just
14:06
Speaker 1: kind of humming along with us every day, or we're
14:11
Speaker 1: feeling things that we already were dealing with. Maybe it's anxiety, depression, separation, isolation,
14:19
Speaker 1: all being exacerbated by this. And so I feel like
14:22
Speaker 1: right now is a good time for everyone to kind
14:24
Speaker 1: of check in with themselves and pay attention to how
14:29
Speaker 1: much time, energy, money they're spending on focusing on and
14:35
Speaker 1: worrying about their body and their health, because it's really
14:38
Speaker 1: hard to find that line right now of like what's overworrying,
14:43
Speaker 1: what's successive?
14:44
Speaker 3: Right?
14:44
Speaker 2: And then like everyone always has an opinion on you
14:48
Speaker 2: if you are doing too much or too little, or
14:51
Speaker 2: if you should be worrying more, And it's like that
14:54
Speaker 2: starts with you, right, Like you're the person that gets
14:56
Speaker 2: to decide what the right choice is for you and
14:59
Speaker 2: your body.
15:00
Speaker 1: Right. That's something that I've heard from so many experts
15:03
Speaker 1: that I have interviewed about this subject recently that the
15:07
Speaker 1: line for everyone is different. You know, only you are
15:10
Speaker 1: going to know if the amount that you are worrying
15:14
Speaker 1: about or focusing on your body is interfering with your
15:18
Speaker 1: ability to live a full life. There's no magic thresholds
15:23
Speaker 1: that can say like, oh, you might need some support
15:26
Speaker 1: with that, you might need some help with that, and
15:28
Speaker 1: especially right now, because yeah, like you said, everyone has
15:31
Speaker 1: an opinion on what is right and responsible, and we
15:35
Speaker 1: are being reinforced to be careful right now and to
15:39
Speaker 1: be checking ourselves for any symptoms to protect ourselves and
15:43
Speaker 1: those around us. So it can be really hard if
15:46
Speaker 1: you're already someone who has that kind of fraught relationship
15:49
Speaker 1: with your body and you're maybe a little too attuned
15:53
Speaker 1: to what's going on, it can be really a slippery slope.
15:58
Speaker 3: So we're here today specifically to.
16:00
Speaker 2: Talk about how to have a more compassionate relationship with
16:04
Speaker 2: our bodies. Now, in saying that phrase having a more
16:09
Speaker 2: compassionate relationship, the question is surrounding what necessarily.
16:16
Speaker 1: Right. So I noticed working in health media for a
16:21
Speaker 1: decade that everyone is a little bit confused and embarrassed
16:27
Speaker 1: and stressed out about their bodies. My job as an
16:31
Speaker 1: editor at these companies was to figure out what health
16:35
Speaker 1: and wellness content resonated with people. And as you know
16:38
Speaker 1: from being in this industry, one way to do that
16:40
Speaker 1: is to look at what are people searching? You know,
16:43
Speaker 1: what are we googling? What are we worried about? And also,
16:48
Speaker 1: you know, the content that you are publishing, how is
16:50
Speaker 1: it doing? Are people clicking on it? Are they sharing it?
16:54
Speaker 1: What's really hitting home? And I noticed a trend that
16:58
Speaker 1: so much of the content that we were doing that
17:02
Speaker 1: really did well was all around this question of is
17:06
Speaker 1: this normal? Like some version of that question, like is
17:11
Speaker 1: my body normal? Is my period normal? Is it normal
17:16
Speaker 1: to have one boob bigger than the other? Is this
17:19
Speaker 1: thing that turns me on normal? Is this chest pain normal?
17:23
Speaker 1: Like you said so so much well in this kind
17:26
Speaker 1: of is tied to that question, and that, I think
17:29
Speaker 1: is where that tricky relationship with your body comes into play,
17:33
Speaker 1: because it's keeping us in that cycle of worrying about
17:37
Speaker 1: and criticizing our body. And I think the biggest problem
17:43
Speaker 1: with that question of is this normal is that it
17:45
Speaker 1: implies that there is one normal, and we know that
17:49
Speaker 1: bodies don't work like that, and it hinges on there
17:54
Speaker 1: being a right and wrong way to have a body,
17:57
Speaker 1: to exist in a body, which again and also bodies
18:00
Speaker 1: don't work that way.
18:02
Speaker 2: Uh.
18:02
Speaker 1: And it's an idea that's deeply rooted in in ableism, right.
18:08
Speaker 1: And it's something that is I think, really hard to
18:11
Speaker 1: unlearn because our society is constantly reinforcing that some bodies
18:16
Speaker 1: or states of health are better than others. Right. It
18:20
Speaker 1: is easier to go about the world in certain bodies
18:23
Speaker 1: or certain states of health. It is undeniably hard to
18:27
Speaker 1: live with a chronic illness or a disability. So it
18:30
Speaker 1: makes sense of why we are constantly consumed by that
18:34
Speaker 1: question of like is this normal? Is this healthy? Is
18:37
Speaker 1: this worthy of concern? Is this harmless? Is it common?
18:41
Speaker 1: Because we do want to avoid that to some extent
18:45
Speaker 1: because it's hard. Noticing that so many people were googling,
18:50
Speaker 1: you know, is this normal? Is what I'm experiencing normal?
18:53
Speaker 1: Just showed me that so many people had that fraught
18:56
Speaker 1: relationship with their bodies that they didn't really necessarily trust it.
19:00
Speaker 1: They were consumed by these messages that you're doing something wrong,
19:04
Speaker 1: that something on your body needs fixing or optimizing, that
19:09
Speaker 1: you should be working on your body and your health.
19:12
Speaker 1: Hard and fixing something that maybe you don't even know
19:15
Speaker 1: is wrong yet, but we're going to tell you why
19:17
Speaker 1: it's wrong. And yeah, I think it just keeps us
19:20
Speaker 1: trapped in that cycle of instead of having compassion for
19:23
Speaker 1: our body and listening to our bodies and trusting our
19:26
Speaker 1: bodies to instead be always kind of wound up, worried
19:30
Speaker 1: and viewing it as this ticking time bomb.
19:38
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love
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23:00
Speaker 2: and it seems as though, what you are suggesting is
23:04
Speaker 2: that we need to be more intuitive instead of seeking
23:09
Speaker 2: that external validation for finding out whether or not something
23:13
Speaker 2: is quote unquote normal.
23:16
Speaker 1: Right, And it's even even that as a slippery slope
23:19
Speaker 1: because so many of the experts that I've talked to
23:22
Speaker 1: about this subject have talked about when we talk about
23:25
Speaker 1: health anxiety really to the point of, like when people
23:28
Speaker 1: say I feel like I'm a little bit of a hypochondriac,
23:31
Speaker 1: that actually is defined in the DSM as either illness
23:35
Speaker 1: anxiety disorder or somatic symptom disorder. But you can also
23:39
Speaker 1: just have experience health anxiety the way you experience anxiety
23:43
Speaker 1: experience depression. And when you think of when they think
23:47
Speaker 1: about the risk factors that go into that, it's often
23:51
Speaker 1: this increased body awareness, this really sensitivity to what's going
23:55
Speaker 1: on in your body, almost paying too much attention to
23:57
Speaker 1: what's going on in your body. And again, we get
24:00
Speaker 1: those messages all the time, listen to your body, trust
24:04
Speaker 1: your body, and you know your body best. But for
24:09
Speaker 1: some of us that borders on kind of hypervigilance. And
24:13
Speaker 1: when we're getting all of these messages that your body's
24:17
Speaker 1: broken and needs fixing, and your body could be so
24:19
Speaker 1: much better if you bought this product or did this
24:21
Speaker 1: cleanse or tried this service, and you need more data,
24:25
Speaker 1: you know, on your body to be taking care of
24:28
Speaker 1: it the best way possible. It kind of does reinforce
24:31
Speaker 1: that we should be spending so much time focusing in
24:34
Speaker 1: on it, and that can you know, for some people,
24:37
Speaker 1: just be damaging to your body image, your self esteem,
24:41
Speaker 1: or your budget if you're spending so much time and
24:43
Speaker 1: money on this, yes, and then for others it could
24:47
Speaker 1: you know, really exacerbate those feelings of anxiety because you're
24:50
Speaker 1: paying so much attention to your body.
24:53
Speaker 2: Along the lines of having a more compassionate relationship with
24:56
Speaker 2: our bodies, where would you say is a good place
24:59
Speaker 2: to start?
25:00
Speaker 1: A good place to start is to take stock of
25:03
Speaker 1: the messages that you're surrounding yourself with. So think about
25:07
Speaker 1: you know, if you are following people on Instagram, maybe
25:11
Speaker 1: they're posting of what I eat in the day video
25:13
Speaker 1: that makes you feel like shit, you know, unfollow that person.
25:18
Speaker 1: Unlike that brand that is always promoting articles that have
25:22
Speaker 1: really fear mongering health headlines that are like eight surprising
25:26
Speaker 1: signs It could be cancer and the sign is like
25:29
Speaker 1: cough or something. You know, things that if something is
25:33
Speaker 1: giving you more anxiety than information, you don't necessarily need
25:37
Speaker 1: to be seeing that in your news feeds and your
25:39
Speaker 1: push notifications all the time. There are some people that
25:42
Speaker 1: love wearables and really find them motivating and awesome, and
25:46
Speaker 1: other people that find that anxiety inducing and realize, oh, no,
25:51
Speaker 1: I'm paying way too much attention if I'm wearing this
25:53
Speaker 1: or doing this. Just kind of check in with yourself
25:55
Speaker 1: and see what's giving me information and empowerment and what
25:59
Speaker 1: is making me way too anxious about my body?
26:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean that's a great tip on the
26:05
Speaker 2: wearables note, I, for one, am guilty of cycling between
26:10
Speaker 2: typically two or three different wearables on a regular basis.
26:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm constantly wearing a whoop and then on
26:16
Speaker 2: the other wrist, I'm going back and forth between a
26:18
Speaker 2: garment and an Apple watch. And for me, I ask
26:21
Speaker 2: myself often as I look down at what looks like,
26:24
Speaker 2: you know, handcuffs on both of my risks, and I'm like,
26:26
Speaker 2: why am I wearing these? And in my life they
26:29
Speaker 2: serve different purposes, all of which I find to be useful. Right, So,
26:34
Speaker 2: rather than getting wrapped up in the WHOOP data or
26:37
Speaker 2: feeling a lot of judgment if something isn't quote unquote good.
26:42
Speaker 2: I look at that data and ask myself if there
26:44
Speaker 2: are habits in my life that I could be implementing
26:47
Speaker 2: to be a little bit healthier. Granted, these healthier habits
26:51
Speaker 2: would result in perhaps better WHOP data, but the data
26:55
Speaker 2: in turn is helping me by giving me cues on
26:58
Speaker 2: things that I could be doing better that I know
27:00
Speaker 2: I want to be doing better because I know that
27:02
Speaker 2: they serve me. So again, there are certainly, you know,
27:06
Speaker 2: different ways to approach things like wearables like we're talking
27:09
Speaker 2: about in this situation, but your point on finding the
27:12
Speaker 2: ones that work for you and that add positivity to
27:16
Speaker 2: your life rather than negativity is super super important now
27:20
Speaker 2: beyond the external validation that we might be looking for
27:23
Speaker 2: when it comes to having compassionate relationship with our bodies.
27:27
Speaker 2: You mentioned something before on the inner dialogue that we're having,
27:31
Speaker 2: which I would infer is probably where we're going to
27:34
Speaker 2: go next, about how we are talking to ourselves when
27:36
Speaker 2: it comes to what we're looking at when we see
27:39
Speaker 2: something in the mirror, or perhaps just how we're talking
27:41
Speaker 2: to ourselves about our emotions.
27:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so when you're thinking about the relationship that
27:49
Speaker 1: you have with your body, you're sending yourself messages all
27:52
Speaker 1: the time, just like the messages that you're getting on
27:54
Speaker 1: social media or and subway ads and everything like that.
27:58
Speaker 1: So having that positive internal dialogue is important, but it
28:02
Speaker 1: can be so hard, especially when you are dealing with
28:06
Speaker 1: certain stress, anxiety, or worry or criticism about your body. I,
28:10
Speaker 1: for instance, have viewed my body as like this taking
28:14
Speaker 1: time bomb my entire life. I've dealt with health anxiety
28:18
Speaker 1: for as long as I can remember, and I have
28:20
Speaker 1: spent so much time worrying about a symptom or a feeling,
28:26
Speaker 1: getting consumed by it, having panic attacks about it, and
28:31
Speaker 1: reassurance seeking through Google, through going to doctors, things like that.
28:35
Speaker 1: And so I definitely can empathize with people who don't
28:41
Speaker 1: appreciate the advice that they might get that's like, oh,
28:43
Speaker 1: just stop worrying about it, Like just tell yourself, like,
28:46
Speaker 1: your body's fine, You're good, don't worry. It goes a
28:49
Speaker 1: lot deeper than that. A lot of this comes down
28:51
Speaker 1: to being more comfortable with discomfort and uncertainty, knowing that
28:57
Speaker 1: not every little blip or noise or in your body
29:01
Speaker 1: is something that needs to keep you up at night.
29:03
Speaker 1: It could be uncomfortable, not necessarily pathological, and also being
29:08
Speaker 1: comfortable with that uncertainty that it could be something. You know,
29:13
Speaker 1: the title of my book, it's probably nothing, is my
29:15
Speaker 1: own internal monologue all the time. It's what I tell
29:18
Speaker 1: myself all the time. It's probably nothing. Don't freak out.
29:22
Speaker 1: It's what I tell my friends and colleagues all the
29:24
Speaker 1: time when they're like, oh, you know something about you've
29:26
Speaker 1: reported on this, Like should I freak out about this?
29:29
Speaker 1: It's often probably nothing, but your head is going to
29:33
Speaker 1: tell you, but it could be something, and getting more
29:36
Speaker 1: comfortable with that uncertainty, which might sometimes take some support,
29:41
Speaker 1: It might take speaking to a therapist about where these
29:44
Speaker 1: worries are stemming from. And often it is. You know
29:49
Speaker 1: that we are constantly bombarded with the message that there's
29:52
Speaker 1: something to worry about, there's something to fix, there's something
29:55
Speaker 1: we could be doing better, eating better, moving better. So
30:00
Speaker 1: really just paying attention to how you are absorbing those
30:04
Speaker 1: messages and how it is affecting the way that you
30:08
Speaker 1: show up in your body. If you are paying too
30:12
Speaker 1: much attention or spending too much time worrying about your body,
30:17
Speaker 1: your health to the detriment of living a joyful, full life.
30:22
Speaker 1: That's often the line for you to pay attention to
30:25
Speaker 1: in your research.
30:27
Speaker 2: I'm sure you have learned a thing or two about
30:30
Speaker 2: how either mindfulness or meditation can also dramatically impact the
30:36
Speaker 2: way that we speak to ourselves and what you are
30:39
Speaker 2: just referencing, not getting wrapped up if something's a little
30:43
Speaker 2: bit off.
30:44
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, I am a huge fan of the Calm app.
30:50
Speaker 1: It has been such a huge help for me. I
30:53
Speaker 1: know everyone has their own one of those kind of
30:56
Speaker 1: mindfulness apps that they really prefer, but that one has
30:59
Speaker 1: talked me off a ledge many times, and just you know,
31:03
Speaker 1: sometimes you just have to quiet that noise in your head.
31:06
Speaker 1: Another thing, though, is keeping in mind that pushing the
31:10
Speaker 1: like distracting yourself kind of pushing these feelings down isn't
31:13
Speaker 1: going to be as helpful as really getting to the
31:16
Speaker 1: root of them. So I think finding mental health support
31:20
Speaker 1: is so important if you do feel like you're struggling
31:23
Speaker 1: with just meditation, just mindfulness, because it's often these feelings
31:32
Speaker 1: of anxiety are often a deeper Sorry, these feelings of
31:38
Speaker 1: anxiety often are coming from a deeper place that we
31:41
Speaker 1: might not be able to just kind of get through
31:43
Speaker 1: with meditation or mindfulness, but it's certainly a huge help
31:48
Speaker 1: in the moment. Another tip that I started doing on
31:52
Speaker 1: my own and then got validation from some of the
31:55
Speaker 1: experts in my book that no, that's actually a good
31:57
Speaker 1: idea is something I call the twenty four hour rule.
32:00
Speaker 1: So if I am freaking out about some symptom or
32:04
Speaker 1: some catastrophic thought in my head, whether it is like, oh,
32:08
Speaker 1: I definitely got COVID from that one second I passed
32:11
Speaker 1: by someone who maybe you was sick, or like, what
32:14
Speaker 1: is this this mole looks different than it did yesterday,
32:17
Speaker 1: you know, is to if I am not you know,
32:21
Speaker 1: on fire, in pain, debilitated, you know, if it can
32:25
Speaker 1: wait twenty four hours, deal with it in twenty four hours,
32:29
Speaker 1: tell yourself, like, schedule that time to worry. The planner
32:33
Speaker 1: in me really likes that, Like I've planned to worry
32:36
Speaker 1: about it later. And that's a good way that you're
32:39
Speaker 1: not necessarily like forcing yourself to distract yourself from what's
32:43
Speaker 1: going on. You're not saying that your you know, internal
32:46
Speaker 1: body signals don't matter. You're just saying, if this is
32:50
Speaker 1: worthy of concern, it will still be worthy of concern
32:52
Speaker 1: twenty four hours from now. And I often find, of
32:56
Speaker 1: course that at that point twenty four hours later I
33:00
Speaker 1: check in. Sometimes I won't even remember to check in
33:02
Speaker 1: about it. It's totally off my mind and I clearly
33:06
Speaker 1: was just worrying about something to worry. And other times
33:09
Speaker 1: I check in and I'm like, you know, I'm still
33:11
Speaker 1: kind of concerned. Now I feel like I can go
33:15
Speaker 1: see someone about that, I can see I can google
33:18
Speaker 1: about it. I still do that too. It's okay, I.
33:21
Speaker 3: Will allow myself to do this.
33:23
Speaker 2: Then I also think, of course, of course, this comes
33:25
Speaker 2: with the caveat that if it was something that was
33:28
Speaker 2: like astronomically wrong with you, then maybe don't wait the
33:32
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. But I'm talking about like severe like
33:35
Speaker 2: abdominal pain, not like, oh, is this all a little
33:37
Speaker 2: bit different looking than yesterday? Right?
33:40
Speaker 1: If these are symptoms that you are consumed by and
33:43
Speaker 1: you and again, what's really hard is that panic attacks.
33:47
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever had one or your
33:49
Speaker 1: listeners have. If you have, you know that you feel
33:52
Speaker 1: like you are dying right then. And so that can
33:54
Speaker 1: be a really tricky place to be in. And I
33:57
Speaker 1: do suggest still getting help if you are in that
34:00
Speaker 1: period you know, I felt, I mean talk about having
34:03
Speaker 1: a more compassionate relationship with your body. In college, I definitely,
34:08
Speaker 1: you know, dragged friends with me to the er multiple
34:10
Speaker 1: times that I swear I was having an allergic reaction
34:15
Speaker 1: or a heart attack or whatever, asthma attack, whatever, and
34:20
Speaker 1: you know, was mortified to find out that I was fine,
34:23
Speaker 1: that it was a panic attack, that it was seemingly
34:27
Speaker 1: you know, in your head, even though these are very
34:29
Speaker 1: real physical symptoms, and years later, I'm able to see,
34:34
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, my friends are amazing, and
34:37
Speaker 1: second of all, that there is nothing embarrassing or mortifying
34:41
Speaker 1: about getting help for a very real physical symptom that
34:45
Speaker 1: you're having and checking that off the list. If you
34:49
Speaker 1: need to give yourself a break for seeking out the
34:52
Speaker 1: care that you need in that moment, and if it
34:56
Speaker 1: becomes a habit, you know, then look into that and
34:58
Speaker 1: seek out help that might help you through that. But
35:02
Speaker 1: certainly don't don't ignore your body's alarms if they're telling
35:07
Speaker 1: you that you need something.
35:08
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely and something that you're talking about here, This
35:12
Speaker 2: theme of compassion and having grace for yourself is definitely
35:15
Speaker 2: one that's overarching when we talk about, you know, the
35:18
Speaker 2: need to be a little kinder with our bodies. Have
35:23
Speaker 2: you in your research approach to experts that gave you
35:26
Speaker 2: advice on how to be better with that? In terms
35:29
Speaker 2: of can a journaling practice help? Are there certain mantras
35:33
Speaker 2: that I should be saying to myself out loud day
35:35
Speaker 2: in day out?
35:36
Speaker 1: What did you find? Yes? So, I something that I've
35:41
Speaker 1: heard from experts a lot is focusing on gratitude, having
35:45
Speaker 1: a gratitude practice, because we can get so caught up
35:49
Speaker 1: in our heads and spiral around all of the negative things,
35:55
Speaker 1: and it's just easier at that point to just go
35:57
Speaker 1: to the next negative thing and the next thing, and
35:59
Speaker 1: we're snowballing with all of the things that are wrong
36:02
Speaker 1: with my life and my body and my health at
36:04
Speaker 1: this point. Finding ways to intentionally interrupt that line of
36:09
Speaker 1: thinking with the good things, which is often really hard
36:15
Speaker 1: in the moment, but once you do it, keep those
36:18
Speaker 1: lists because you need those when you are spiraling and
36:21
Speaker 1: when you are catastrophizing every little thing going on in
36:25
Speaker 1: your life. It kind of helps to have greater perspective. Also,
36:30
Speaker 1: just taking a step back when you are in those
36:33
Speaker 1: moments and sometimes calling on a friend, you know, call
36:38
Speaker 1: a friend, call of family member that can help you
36:40
Speaker 1: talk through it, because often again we get into our
36:43
Speaker 1: heads and we'll just keep finding evidence for these beliefs
36:49
Speaker 1: in our head. And often you know, if you go
36:51
Speaker 1: on Google when you are freaking out about something, you're
36:55
Speaker 1: going to find the thing that you were worried about.
36:58
Speaker 2: Oh man, just makes me think about the hernia I
37:01
Speaker 2: thought I had last week. I mean, it was very possible,
37:04
Speaker 2: it was very let me just disclaim this. It was
37:07
Speaker 2: very possible, based by where the pain was presenting itself,
37:11
Speaker 2: that I had a hernia.
37:13
Speaker 3: And I had two experts tell me that it was
37:15
Speaker 3: a possibility.
37:16
Speaker 2: But thankfully we have we've moved on past the stage
37:20
Speaker 2: of hernia and we're just at we'll just a muscle
37:22
Speaker 2: strain right now, which seems much more comforting and less
37:26
Speaker 2: invasive over time, right.
37:28
Speaker 1: I mean for sure? But yes, I mean, if you
37:32
Speaker 1: go on Google with certain set of symptoms, you're going
37:35
Speaker 1: to find something that you will confirms the belief that
37:39
Speaker 1: you had in your head. And you're also just going
37:42
Speaker 1: to keep looking until you do find that. And so
37:44
Speaker 1: sometimes just like zooming out from that turn, your your
37:49
Speaker 1: phone off, turn your Wi Fi off, kind of step away,
37:54
Speaker 1: take those tools away for a second and do what
37:57
Speaker 1: experts refer to as Socratic question shning, which is really
38:02
Speaker 1: asking like what evidence do I have for this belief
38:05
Speaker 1: or this thought that I'm dealing with? What evidence do
38:08
Speaker 1: I have to confirm it to refute it? And not
38:11
Speaker 1: going to Google to add to either pile, but really
38:16
Speaker 1: just thinking, you know, in your experience and in what
38:18
Speaker 1: you're feeling, and that can kind of also help you
38:21
Speaker 1: to get greater perspective and not just snowball. But yeah,
38:26
Speaker 1: it can be It can be really hard. I definitely
38:28
Speaker 1: I had like a bullseye looking, you know, bite on
38:33
Speaker 1: my arm years ago, and I'm thinking, this looks super
38:38
Speaker 1: lime diseasy, you know, and I googled it that told me,
38:43
Speaker 1: yes it was. I sent it to friends in the
38:46
Speaker 1: medical field and they're like, yep, looks limey and I'm
38:50
Speaker 1: freaking out, go to urgent care. It's it was a
38:53
Speaker 1: reaction to a musquito bite, like it was not. But
38:56
Speaker 1: you are going to certain people can deal with that
39:00
Speaker 1: kind of thing and just kind of roll with it,
39:02
Speaker 1: and certain people it'll really throw you for a loop
39:05
Speaker 1: and have you again just looking at your body through
39:08
Speaker 1: this critical, worrisome lens, And I just want people to
39:15
Speaker 1: have a little bit more grace with themselves and realize
39:18
Speaker 1: that your body is normal, because all bodies are normal,
39:23
Speaker 1: and your body is not some unpredictable, stressful entity for
39:30
Speaker 1: you to kind of control.
39:31
Speaker 2: Is there anything that we haven't covered just yet that
39:34
Speaker 2: we want to make sure we get in before I
39:36
Speaker 2: let you go when it comes to how to be
39:38
Speaker 2: more compassionate with our bodies.
39:41
Speaker 1: So one thing I think people should also be aware
39:43
Speaker 1: of that I need this reminder often, and I get
39:49
Speaker 1: this reminder from experts often, is that our bodies do
39:52
Speaker 1: all sorts of weird fluctuating and changing all the time,
39:57
Speaker 1: and it does not always signal something to were dangerous
40:01
Speaker 1: and scary. One example of this that I find super
40:05
Speaker 1: interesting is some people experience like a little pain with
40:09
Speaker 1: ovulation in the middle of the month, in the middle
40:12
Speaker 1: of your cycle. It's kind of like a little twinge.
40:15
Speaker 1: It's called middle Schmertz, which is just a fun word,
40:19
Speaker 1: and it's nothing wrong. I mean, that's just your body
40:22
Speaker 1: doing a thing, but it feels super uncomfortable, and some
40:25
Speaker 1: people feel it much more than other people, and if
40:29
Speaker 1: you are someone like me who is very attuned to
40:32
Speaker 1: their body and always paying attention to those things, you're
40:35
Speaker 1: going to freak out. Similarly, you might freak out when
40:38
Speaker 1: your heart is racing, and that could be attributed to
40:42
Speaker 1: increased stress. You're about to do a presentation, you had
40:45
Speaker 1: way too much coldber this morning, like I did. But
40:48
Speaker 1: sometimes your mind misattributes those signals to something dangerous, and
40:54
Speaker 1: I think us all getting a little bit more comfortable
40:57
Speaker 1: with paying attention to those signals and then letting them
41:01
Speaker 1: go by. You know, you talked about mindfulness, like, so
41:04
Speaker 1: much of mindfulness is allowing thoughts to come into our
41:06
Speaker 1: head and then kind of watching them go along on
41:09
Speaker 1: this river and not focusing on them so much. And
41:13
Speaker 1: that's the same thing that I've learned from experts. Is
41:16
Speaker 1: a huge part of dealing with this anxiety and worry
41:19
Speaker 1: about your body, because the more that you do pay
41:22
Speaker 1: attention to it, the more that it'll just seem louder
41:27
Speaker 1: in your head, and if you do end up getting
41:30
Speaker 1: a little bit more panicked about it. We all know
41:32
Speaker 1: that a panic attack can trigger that fight or flight response.
41:36
Speaker 1: That's your sympathetic nervous system really just going haywire because
41:41
Speaker 1: it thinks that you're in danger, and that does pump
41:44
Speaker 1: out adrenaline. It does cause physical symptoms that are going
41:48
Speaker 1: to further cause you to panic and freak out because
41:51
Speaker 1: you're like, well, now why am I dizzy? Why am
41:54
Speaker 1: I shaky? And trembling and sweaty? These are all very
41:59
Speaker 1: real things that are happening in your body. They're not
42:01
Speaker 1: necessarily a huge cause for alarm, but it's literally a
42:05
Speaker 1: false alarm happening. So I think us getting more comfortable
42:08
Speaker 1: with that also helps us to not freak out at
42:11
Speaker 1: every little.
42:11
Speaker 2: Thing and not freak out at every little thing. It
42:13
Speaker 2: sounds like an aim that I am after. I'm so
42:17
Speaker 2: thankful that we had the chance to sit down and
42:20
Speaker 2: to chat a little bit about this. I know that
42:22
Speaker 2: someone who deals with a lot of anxiety, a lot
42:25
Speaker 2: of this really really resonates with me, and I am
42:28
Speaker 2: sure because of the things that come into my DMS
42:30
Speaker 2: that this will definitely resonate with the community. Casey, any
42:34
Speaker 2: other words of wisdom to offer before I release you?
42:39
Speaker 1: Oh, good question. I would just say that know that
42:45
Speaker 1: you are not alone in your worries and in your
42:48
Speaker 1: questions about your body. We often feel really embarrassed asking
42:52
Speaker 1: different questions about our body or even questions to our doctors.
42:56
Speaker 1: And it is not your fault that you do not
42:59
Speaker 1: know exactly how your body works or what that word
43:03
Speaker 1: is that they said that's like medical jargon that why
43:05
Speaker 1: would you know that word? Do not be embarrassed to
43:09
Speaker 1: ask questions. I can tell you from looking at the
43:12
Speaker 1: search data around wellness topics that you are not the
43:15
Speaker 1: only one with your question. The amount of people that
43:19
Speaker 1: google like brown period blood or like is my period normal?
43:26
Speaker 1: Or some very very deep, dark interesting things in the
43:32
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands these people that are googling the same
43:36
Speaker 1: weird stuff that you are. So just know that you
43:38
Speaker 1: are not alone and what you're freaking out about and
43:42
Speaker 1: maybe just maybe freaking out actually is normal. I think
43:48
Speaker 1: there's nothing more normal than freaking out about your body.
43:53
Speaker 2: Now that's the SoundBite that I'm going to use here. Casey,
43:56
Speaker 2: how did the hurdlers follow along with you? Remind them
43:59
Speaker 2: what your book is called again so they can check
44:01
Speaker 2: it out? Give us all the details. Yes, so you.
44:03
Speaker 1: Can follow me at Casey Gearin on Instagram, on Twitter,
44:08
Speaker 1: and my book is it's probably nothing. The stress Less
44:12
Speaker 1: Guide to dealing with health, anxiety, wellness, fads and overhyped headlines.
44:18
Speaker 1: And it is out October fifth, So if you are
44:21
Speaker 1: listening after October fifth, you can get it wherever books
44:24
Speaker 1: are sold. If you're listening before then, you can pre
44:27
Speaker 1: order it now. And I'm so excited for everyone to
44:29
Speaker 1: have this as we navigate through the rest of whatever
44:34
Speaker 1: we're dealing with with COVID, the.
44:36
Speaker 2: Rest of whatever we have on deck. Again, thank you
44:39
Speaker 2: so much for your time case. I'm over at Emily
44:42
Speaker 2: a Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle conquered. Catch
44:46
Speaker 2: you guys next time, OK.