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Transcript

Boys Dance Too! · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_03: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_03: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: Today I'm Making the Impact.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: It's all about the boys.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: Boys and Dance Buddhist.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: In this episode, we're joined by two male professional dancers who recount their experiences as boys and dance guys and share how those experiences influence their career choices and teaching styles.
0:42
SPEAKER_07: Hello everyone, and happy new year from Making the Impact.
0:46
SPEAKER_07: I am your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, like always, Leslie Mueller.
0:52
SPEAKER_03: Happy New Year, Courtney.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: Happy New Year, listeners.
0:55
SPEAKER_07: Yes, it's 2024.
0:58
SPEAKER_07: Oh my gosh, can you believe it?
1:00
SPEAKER_03: We live in the future.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Like that just sounds insane.
1:04
SPEAKER_07: It does.
1:04
SPEAKER_07: It's wild.
1:05
SPEAKER_07: It's I can't believe it's here already.
1:07
SPEAKER_07: I feel like the holiday season flew by, and now we are into soon to be competition season.
1:14
SPEAKER_07: I'm about to hit the ground running every single weekend.
1:17
SPEAKER_07: Starting this weekend, I will be out at an event, convention or competition event, and I cannot wait.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: I am glad you're gonna be back out and about.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: I am also gonna be back out and about this season after a few seasons off from judging.
1:32
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: Because news update.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: So there has been some change in the world of Leslie Mueller, and I'm headed back to Capizio as of this week.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: Full time, back as their product testing coordinator.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: Wow, congrats.
1:48
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh the world of NYCDA assistant general managing was wonderful.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: I learned so much and had such a nice time working with those people uh from that awesome organization.
1:59
SPEAKER_03: Got to see a few of our listeners this summer at Nationals, but ultimately Capezio called me back up.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: The timing was right, the fit was right, and the fit.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: I will be continuing to do fittings if any of you have ever done uh fittings for me at Capizio.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I'll be back doing that, which will also free up my weekends, um, which haven't been free for judging in gosh, since before the pandemic.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: Because I was directing before that.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so I'm super stoked to be able to have uh some judging weekends under my belt again this year, and excited to get back into the world of product testing.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: So that is what's up with me in the new year, Courtney.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: Anything else up with you besides getting back out there every weekend?
2:38
SPEAKER_07: Well, first of all, congrats on this new venture.
2:40
SPEAKER_07: What a way to kick off a brand new year for you, and I feel like it's gonna be a great one.
2:44
SPEAKER_07: So I'm so proud of you.
2:45
SPEAKER_07: Congrats on that.
2:46
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
2:47
SPEAKER_07: For me, yeah.
2:48
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I always I always try to make some New Year's resolutions happen uh personally in my life.
2:55
SPEAKER_07: And I think last year I said I was going to start taking salsa dance lessons, and I'm here to s let everyone know that that never happened.
3:03
SPEAKER_07: So I was like, I'm gonna New Year's resolution, I'm gonna learn a new skill.
3:08
SPEAKER_07: I'm gonna start taking Latin ballroom and salsa lessons, and you know, it's just my life is so busy that I didn't have enough time to pencil that into my week.
3:18
SPEAKER_07: Like, yeah, it's it's really, really tough.
3:20
SPEAKER_07: But I do want to um, you know, follow up with some resolutions.
3:25
SPEAKER_07: I I wanna be better at doing this sounds so random, but like doing some of my physical therapy um exercises that like I'm not in physical therapy right now, but I just have like a whole list of exercises and different fitness things that I need to be doing just to like take care of my body more.
3:41
SPEAKER_07: And I always just push it to the side and say, Oh, I'll get to it eventually, and then never do.
3:45
SPEAKER_07: So I wanna start off the new year strong and do that, even if that means rolling out a yoga mat in my living room and doing it for you know 20 minutes in the morning.
3:53
SPEAKER_07: I want to start doing that.
3:55
SPEAKER_07: And my next New Year's resolution is I wanna start waking up a little earlier each day.
4:00
SPEAKER_07: Uh not like 6 a.m.
4:02
SPEAKER_07: But like when I'm not teaching and I'm working from home and we're doing podcasts and I'm doing IDA life.
4:07
SPEAKER_07: Um sometimes you just when you work from home, you can just kind of sleep in and wake up whenever you feel like it.
4:11
SPEAKER_07: You're on your own schedule, you know?
4:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: So we both have to do podcasts like straight up in our pajamas sometimes.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
4:18
SPEAKER_07: So I wanna I wanna wake up.
4:20
SPEAKER_07: I want to start start my day a little bit sooner, and then as far as new news, I'm really, really excited to head out to with the Streets Dance Convention as their new jazz faculty for this upcoming season.
4:32
SPEAKER_07: This upcoming weekend in January will be my very first event with Streets.
4:36
SPEAKER_07: I was actually supposed to do one in December, but I had to unfortunately cancel due to a death in the family so sad.
4:41
SPEAKER_07: So I was sad I didn't get to meet all of my new faculty and uh new staff and pe everyone I'm gonna be working with this season, but I am so excited for this new venture and can't wait to see some dancers out there.
4:54
SPEAKER_07: So if you're attending a streets event, I will see you.
4:56
SPEAKER_07: I will be at every single event and I will be judging on every single judging panel as the teacher judge, and I cannot wait.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, the new year is here, and we have a great episode for you today, Courtney, don't we?
5:07
SPEAKER_07: We do.
5:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you like you don't know.
5:10
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I know we do, and I can't wait for us to jump into it.
5:13
SPEAKER_07: So let's jump into our episode.
5:14
SPEAKER_07: But before we do, let's hear from our fabulous season five sponsors.
5:19
SPEAKER_03: Our season five premiere sponsor, Francisco Gella Danceworks, will be hosting a unique seven-day intensive this summer in Miami, Florida.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: Ballet Plus is an in-depth intensive leading students towards developing a strong technical foundation in ballet, modern, and jazz with a highly refined and authentic artistic voice.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: Intermediate and advanced dancers ages 10 through 22 are able to attend this exciting weeklong event with over 60 hours of dancing from an exceptional faculty, including Francisco Gella, Yusha Marie Sorzano, and even Making the Impact's own Courtney Ortiz.
5:50
SPEAKER_03: Dancers will take a variety of different classes like ballet, point, musical theater, modern dance with live percussion, Horton, contemporary, conditioning, Pilates, repertoire, and so much more.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: Parents will even have a chance to sit in and watch certain classes throughout the week, and all dancers are eligible for scholarships to future Francisco Gela Dance Works events.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: Mark your calendars to attend Ballet Plus from June 9th through 15th, 2024.
6:14
SPEAKER_03: And register now to receive$75 off tuition with our exclusive podcast promo code.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Use the code MAKINGTHEIMPACTINAL CAPS when registering for the Ballet Plus Intensive at FranciscogelaDance.com.
6:26
SPEAKER_07: Alright, Dance World.
6:27
SPEAKER_07: It is time to jump into this week's episode, our first episode of 2024.
6:33
SPEAKER_07: And we're talking all about boys in dance.
6:36
SPEAKER_07: Guess what, everybody?
6:37
SPEAKER_07: Boys dance too.
6:38
SPEAKER_07: And we have had a boys episode way back when in season one.
6:42
SPEAKER_07: If you haven't had a chance to listen to it, go give a listen.
6:46
SPEAKER_07: It was great.
6:46
SPEAKER_07: But we wanted to bring back another male dancer episode for our beautiful dance world because there's so much more to share, there's so much more to talk about, and there's so many more opinions to be heard about what it's like being a male dancer in this dance industry.
7:02
SPEAKER_07: We have two brand new guests joining us on Making the Impact for this episode.
7:06
SPEAKER_07: I'm so thrilled to have them both here with us.
7:09
SPEAKER_07: The first guest is someone I've known for a very long time.
7:11
SPEAKER_07: I've had the pleasure of auditioning alongside them, dancing alongside them, judging alongside them.
7:17
SPEAKER_07: They've been on the IDA roster for many, many years, and they are so extremely talented.
7:23
SPEAKER_07: I've watched them in Broadway shows, and they have done a ton of them.
7:27
SPEAKER_07: They're currently actually in a brand new pre-Broadway tryout in Chicago of Boop the Betty Boop musical, which is so cool, and I hope it's going fantastic out there in Chicago.
7:37
SPEAKER_07: I'm excited to welcome to the podcast IDA Judge Colin Bradbury.
7:42
SPEAKER_07: Welcome, Colin.
7:43
SPEAKER_07: Hello.
7:44
SPEAKER_07: So happy to have you here on the podcast, finally.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: It's so good to be here finally, all these years.
7:50
SPEAKER_07: I know.
7:50
SPEAKER_07: And thank you so much for all of your support in IDA through the years.
7:55
SPEAKER_07: You have been a part of this from almost the very beginning, if not one of the first few seasons of IDA.
8:01
SPEAKER_07: And it's been such a pleasure having you and your amazing talent and judging expertise, especially with all of the experience that you have in the professional dance world, which I'm sure you're gonna tell everyone all about momentarily.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you two for including me in your journey, and and it's been so great to meld my experience in the competitive dance world and my professional world all these years with you.
8:25
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
8:26
SPEAKER_07: Awesome.
8:26
SPEAKER_07: Well, Colin, I know I just hinted at what you're currently working on, but if you wouldn't mind telling the world more about you, where you grew up, what your early dance training was like, what your professional career has been like, and what's next for Colin.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in New England.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: My mom is a ballet teacher.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: So that's how I really fell into dance was through my mom teaching and my sister, who's two years older than me, taking dance as well.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: So dance was sort of something I was always destined to do.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: I grew up at a competitive studio in New Hampshire.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then I moved to New York City right out of high school and started pursuing a professional career, which has led me all over the world.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: I've lived in New York for 21 and a half years now, which is wild.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: I've performed on uh the national tours of 42nd Street, White Christmas, A Chorus Line, The Book of Mormon, Hello Dolly.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: I performed on Broadway most recently with Funny Girl, uh previously Carousel, Charlie the Chocolate Factory, and my Broadway debut was Twilight Tharp's Come Fly Away.
9:33
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
9:34
SPEAKER_07: I remember that when I saw it.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: I know you did.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: I've done uh the lots of regional theater and I performed at Tokyo Disney C.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: So I've done the theme park world, I've done the Christmas show at Radio City Music Hall, and so I feel like I've dipped my toes into a lot of different areas of the dance world on the theatrical side of things predominantly.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: And I'm currently, as you said, doing Boop the Betty Boop musical in Chicago, which is a brand new musical being directed and choreographed by Jerry Mitchell.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: And uh it's going great in Chicago.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: We're still making a lot of changes to the show and it's still evolving.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: And we'll be here through Christmas and we'll see what's next.
10:12
SPEAKER_07: Awesome.
10:13
SPEAKER_07: That's so fun.
10:14
SPEAKER_07: I love seeing all the publicity and promo videos of Boop the Musical.
10:19
SPEAKER_07: So I really hope it transfers to New York because I am dying to see it, and I want to see you in that show too.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fun because uh the response here has been really overwhelmingly positive from the crowds.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: And in this show, I have uh an ensemble track, so I'm in the show every day uh and I understudy two parts, and I spent a lot of my career as a swing in shows and as a dance captain in shows, so it's nice for me to be back on stage every night in the show.
10:46
SPEAKER_07: All of our listeners out there, now you know what a swing is because we just had our swing episode not too long ago on Making the Impact.
10:52
SPEAKER_07: So, Colin, actually, Colin, you were like next on my list to call for that episode.
10:58
SPEAKER_07: If my friend Britney Nicholas is who ended up doing the episode and she's like ultimate swing girl in Anne Juliet right now.
11:06
SPEAKER_07: And I was like, if Britney can't swing it, I'm calling Colin because you have just been such an acceptable.
11:12
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
11:13
SPEAKER_03: 2.0 next season.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: He's he's back.
11:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, we did say we were thinking about doing a dance captain episode, and Britney was kind of suggested that in the episode.
11:22
SPEAKER_07: So maybe we can pull you in for that one because I'm sure you have things to share.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely Smurfly.
11:28
SPEAKER_07: Awesome, Colin.
11:29
SPEAKER_07: Well, we're thrilled to have you here and share all of your experience as a competitive dancer growing up and as a Broadway professional.
11:35
SPEAKER_07: So thanks for making time for us over here.
11:37
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
11:37
SPEAKER_07: All right, our next special guest is a brand new guest joining us.
11:40
SPEAKER_07: I met him very long time ago in the New York City dance scene, and I've been following his journey for so many years.
11:46
SPEAKER_07: And what's exciting about his journey is that he's also dabbled a little bit in the Broadway world, but also the concert dance world, and is now an exceptional educator for dancers.
11:56
SPEAKER_07: I'm excited to welcome Sean Aaron Carmen to the podcast.
12:00
SPEAKER_07: Welcome, Sean.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, why thank you for having me.
12:04
SPEAKER_07: Yes, I'm so excited to have you.
12:06
SPEAKER_07: And like I said, I've admired what you have created for your career.
12:10
SPEAKER_07: And it is so exciting to see you going in and out of different avenues and like work starting as a concert dancer in company dance world to then breaking into that Broadway scene.
12:20
SPEAKER_07: And now you're I am blown away by what you post on Instagram all the time with all of the modern dance that you are teaching these children out in Texas.
12:29
SPEAKER_07: I am so here for it.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Listen, somebody's gotta get these babies together.
12:34
unknown: Okay.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: It's you.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: It's a calling, what can I say?
12:39
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
12:40
SPEAKER_07: Yes, it is.
12:41
SPEAKER_07: And I I think that it is important for listeners to hear, especially with your journey, as to I'm not, I mean, you're gonna tell us, but like maybe you weren't thinking of going to Broadway ever.
12:53
SPEAKER_07: Maybe it just kind of happened.
12:54
SPEAKER_07: Maybe that was something that you were, you know, looking at, but oh, I'm gonna do the concert scene for a while.
12:59
SPEAKER_07: Like, I think it's important for listeners to hear that your career can take you in so many different directions throughout the years.
13:04
SPEAKER_07: And now, you know, yeah, you know, being an educator now, also still performer.
13:09
SPEAKER_07: So I'm sure we're gonna dive into all of that.
13:11
SPEAKER_07: But same kind of deal, Sean, if you wouldn't mind telling the world a little bit more about you.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: What I find to be uh just so I guess uh jumping right into an anecdote, I I don't you know, I'll just get right into it.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: I find it to be hilarious because I actually started with Broadway, and very few people know that.
13:29
SPEAKER_06: I didn't know that because I met you when you were at Fordham.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: And that senior year, I was performing with the Lisa Monte dance uh during my senior year, the the first semester, and the second semester there was an emergency audition for Lakaja Fole.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how they got my number, I don't know how they got my my information, but I got a rec a call from uh Vitten Whitley, who is now Whitley well used to be Whitley Stewart casting, now he has his own casting agency.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: But I got I received a phone call from him asking me if I could come in for an emergency audition.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh Ureli Cesareta had uh busted his knee in a jump split go figure for the can.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And um they needed someone because the show opened the following week, and they needed someone immediately.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So we were going into previews.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: I was in rehearsal, I did the audition that night, and I did the uh I was in the show the next day.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Truly the next day learning the show.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: They all they all knew I'm still in school, yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Um but luckily, luckily, I planned ahead our uh BFA director at the time, Anna Marie Forsyth and uh Denise Jefferson, they had kind of coached us into making sure that our senior year we had taken care of all of our requirements so that if a job opportunity opened up, they allowed us to go and you know be those professional dancers.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And for us, it was just exciting because if you did come back and take class, you didn't have to wear a dress coat.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: So that's all I really cared about.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, yeah, I'm finally a professional.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I can turn red.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, not not the fact that I'm dancing next to Kelsey Grammar and Nicholas Cunningham and V Ann Cox and all of these like Broadway legends and television stars and and all of these things.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: No, it's just that I didn't have to wear a dress coat when I came back to Ailey.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: So that was that was the cool you know, that was the cool thing at the age of twenty.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I actually started with with Lakaja Fole and then I I went over to Phantom of the Opera.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: I did that show for exactly two months because at four weeks um I auditioned for the Ailey Company and I I got that job, so I gave them my four-week notice.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And um nice and then I and that's how I got into the Ailey Company.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, excuse me, that's when I started the concert dance.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: So I actually did two years on Broadway before I did eight and a half, eight seasons with Ailey.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: And then went back to Lion King and all of that.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, just a little fun fact.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Love that about how that started.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
15:54
SPEAKER_06: And what are you working on now?
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Currently, I am the Pataka Ballet Studio Company director here in Houston, Texas.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Pataka Ballet and School for Dance, they are a you know, it feels kind of weird to say it because I'm talking about myself, but we are a pre-eminent training ground for pre-professional ballerinas and are honestly, I'm trying to branch out past the ballerinas, but it's still the Taca Ballet.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: But we are preparing pre-professional dancers to, you know, take that next step into the professional world, into traineeships, apprenticeships, and some some actual right-in-to-company members.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: So um that is currently what I'm doing.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I also choreograph for the professional company, the Taca Ballet, and I still travel the country setting works at professional dance companies as well.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So that's what that's what I'm doing now, and of course taking care of my babies that are somewhere around here.
16:49
SPEAKER_07: And I know that you also have previously taught on dance convention circuit as well, so you are immersed in the competitive dance scene as well in in your career.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, yes.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: I spent three seasons uh as a judge for a convention, I've gone as guests for other conventions.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I love adjudicating and teaching for conventions, even you know, just those those little one-hour sessions.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I feel like they are so inspirational and motivational and just very eye-opening for someone who may be experiencing some a new technique for the first time.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Being a modern dance expert, it really helps that uh a lot of conventions are now branching out and allowing the modern dance to be taught at conventions where usually it's more of a very specific studio work.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, but now we're getting that opportunity to share with more people on a wider and larger platform.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's very exciting for me because it is a huge passion of mine.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And it's great to see that spark, you know, coming alive in a in a student's eyes.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Contemporary dance, lyrical dance isn't all there is, not just jazz, modern?
17:56
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
17:57
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really exciting for me.
17:59
SPEAKER_07: Oh yeah.
17:59
SPEAKER_07: I I love it.
18:00
SPEAKER_07: I'm so glad that competitions and conventions are kind of opening their eyes a little bit to that.
18:05
SPEAKER_07: Actually, it's funny regarding the modern talk.
18:08
SPEAKER_07: My my best friend Alexa, who owns a studio and was on our modern dance episode last year.
18:12
SPEAKER_07: This is the first year that she's not doing modern at competition.
18:16
SPEAKER_07: And I asked her why.
18:17
SPEAKER_07: And she said, because there's a lot of comps that still don't have a modern category at competition.
18:22
SPEAKER_07: And she's just like, I just got sick of it because I, you know, it's actual true modern dance, and I can't even enter into a proper category.
18:28
SPEAKER_07: And and and so I'm like, I'm hoping that things are gonna start shifting because if you have it at convention, why isn't it a category at competition?
18:36
SPEAKER_07: That's a whole nother discussion.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:40
SPEAKER_07: Anyway, let's jump into this chat with our fabulous boys, our male dancers who are here with us today.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: So, gentlemen, thank you again for joining us.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: We are excited to have you here.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: And we heard a little bit about both of your backgrounds, but I want to dive a tiny bit deeper um just with both of you.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: Colin, you said your mom is a ballet teacher.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: So you are just you just dove right on in like day one, three years old pre-ballet class, or did it take a little longer?
19:07
SPEAKER_02: It took a little longer.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: It was one of those things where I didn't start taking dance class until I was seven.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: And I first started taking tap.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: And but my sister had been dancing for years prior.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: She started when she was about four and or five, maybe.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: And so I was always at the studio with my mom.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: I was always watching classes, and then I would go home and I would just twirl around the living room, and I would put on shows on the back deck, and I would put on my sister's recital costumes and just like skirts and things.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: And I was always dancing around the house and tour jetaying before I knew what a tour jete was.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was always inevitable that I was gonna take class.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: And it was not something that my mom ever forced me into.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: She was sort of wanted, you know, we've talked about this later in later in life, and she always just wanted me to do it if I wanted to do it.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until I was about seven and I said, I want to take tap because I thought tap was really cool.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: And even though I was doing ballet every day in the house, I didn't think that was cool.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I took tap, and it was something like that tap came very naturally to me.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: And in my first year of tap, I sort of progressed through the beginner to the intermediate, and I was dancing with the 15-year-olds when I was seven years old, like within the first two months of tapping.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: It just came very naturally to me.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And my mom said, I'm going to make you take one ballet class, and if you hate it, you never have to do it again, but I think you're gonna like it.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And so I took it and I liked it.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: And then that led to me taking ballet and jazz and lyrical and modern and all of those other styles, which then I carried through all my uh formative years.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: So that that's kind of how I got into it, but it was uh it wasn't from that really, really young age.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Like I was never in those little tiny talk classes.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: Got it.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, clearly you didn't need to be.
20:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: So I think you were fine.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Mom knew best.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: I used to joke, mom.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: I used to joke that I was self-taught.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: All right, cool.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: So, Sean, what about your early years of dance?
21:06
SPEAKER_03: Was that something you decided to do on your own?
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Your mom, your dad, somebody, you know, put you there because you were active.
21:11
SPEAKER_03: What's the deal?
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you might as well call me the uh what is his name?
21:16
SPEAKER_01: I I know his real name, Charles, but I cannot remember the character's name.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: But I'm I'm the guy from a chorus line.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, it was very much my my my aunt used to pick up myself and my cousin, who's two years younger than me, from school, and she was a dancer, and now she's this beautiful professional model in California.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: But she, you know, she loved dancing, and I had to sit around and wait for her to get picked up from school, and we she wasn't gonna make two stops.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: So the dance studio became my second home, is where I ended up doing my homework.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: And inevitably, that observation window it was like, Oh, what are they doing in there?
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can do that out here.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't need to be in there.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: And then uh Miss Bonnie Coconut was my very first dance studio.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And the studio owner, she opened the door and she said, You know, I see you out here every day doing this.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you come in here?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, that's for girls.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Um no, what are you talking about?
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And she said, Okay, well, I'm just gonna leave the door open in case you smart myself.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: If you ever just want to take a step in, and little by little I would, you know, uh trepidatiously take one step in, two steps in, but never onto the the dance floor.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Um and I would always do it on the sides.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And eventually she said she kind of put her foot down and she said, Well, Mr.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Carmen, if you're not gonna step onto the floor, then you're gonna have to step back outside because you know, she had let me do it for a couple of weeks.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And I had gotten so used to it at that point, so I said, Well, okay, I'll I'll do it.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: So I stepped onto the floor, and I think as they say, the rest is history.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: I I just kept coming back and um that was they couldn't get me in a ballet class until I was a little embarrassed to say this, but until I was about seventeen.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:57
SPEAKER_07: Well were you what other styles were you doing before like all through the other years?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I I started with acrobatics.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Started with acrobatics because I had taken gymnastics as a child.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: So I was the flexibility and the you know, just the power that came a little naturally.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: And then I very much like Colin, I started with tap because those rhythms were so just almost intoxicating.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: I just loved the idea of making noise.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: And making noise in a like in a in a way that made sense, you know, not just cacophony, but actual noise.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And then uh I started with jazz and lyrical, and uh my very first competitive trio actually was Steam Heat from the Pajama Game.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: So I went into musical theater the next season after that uh with my teacher Tiffany.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: So it was you know, little by little, and ballet finally How do you get away with that?
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Because I realized I needed it for a college.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: I unfortunately, and also fortunately for me at the time, but unfortunately, um it was that age-old story of I was the only boy, so I kind of got to do what I wanted.
24:04
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, like, oh, I really don't want to do that, and I'm not threatening you and saying I'm gonna stop if I don't get my way, but kind of you know, and a little, little.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: I would never say those words, of course, but it was it was kind of understood, like we have to we want the boy, we we see that he loves this and we we want to nurture this, but we don't want to scare him away, basically.
24:29
SPEAKER_07: Interesting.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: So I I I kind of got lucky, but in a way, I mean I look back on that and I wish somebody would have kind of just said, listen, pal, either do it or don't.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: This is a requirement, yeah.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: This is a requirement, yeah.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: I wish I wish I would have been would have been um given less of an option because I do feel like I miss a lot of formative training in those years, uh, and I had a lot to make up when I made it to college.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's that's the general how and why I got started with with dance, and um eventually my love for ballet came a little bit later.
25:04
unknown: Yeah.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: Better late than never.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
25:07
SPEAKER_07: I I uh it's truly I feel like that every studio, you know, if if a boy walks into the studio, every studio owner is like, oh my gosh, yes, we've we've won the lottery.
25:17
SPEAKER_04: We have a we have a male dancer finally.
25:19
SPEAKER_07: And what do we do to keep him?
25:21
SPEAKER_07: Yes, they will do whatever it takes to make sure that this especially if they see the talent, you know, like there's probably many boys that might get put into dance because their older sister or little sister does it or whatever, and they might not really have the heart in it.
25:36
SPEAKER_07: Or there's the the boy dancers that like want this more than anything, and they were born to do this, and parents support it, and the teachers see the potential and they're like, Okay, how do we keep them in the door?
25:48
SPEAKER_04: You don't want to you don't want to do ballet, okay.
25:50
SPEAKER_04: We don't you don't have to do ballet, just stay in your jazz class, okay?
25:53
SPEAKER_04: We like go, you know, we'll teach you how to partner, we'll do this, we'll do that.
25:57
SPEAKER_07: I could definitely see that happening at a lot of places, um, a lot of studios, but you know I don't know, I think things might be changing.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: I think especially in Texas.
26:06
SPEAKER_07: Oh yeah.
26:06
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: It was yeah, it was a very different environment, even just you know, now we're in our 30s, closer to 40 than 30.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: It is it was a very different environment even just two decades ago when when I was coming up.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: And it really did it it was we are gonna keep this young man in dance by hook or by crook, because uh we don't have very many interested candidates walking in the door and we we will do whatever it takes, as you said, and um that's that's really what it was.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: And if we scare him in any way, or you know, he's already he may be subject to bullying, he may be subject to being made fun of um for doing this.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: So if we can keep this environment a true safe space and and just make him feel the most comfortable in any way possible, we will do that.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what they did.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm thankful for it.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I'm a little you know, peeved by it as now as an educator myself.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: It is what it is, and they did what they they did what they thought was best to to keep me and to get other young men interested as well.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: Well and and they kept you.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're living proof that like sometimes that method works.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Listen, uh you know, the by hook or by crook method, it is It's one of 'em.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: It gets the job done, you know.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: Um Colin, did you have any of those experiences at your studio?
27:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, I first started dancing.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: My dad was in the army, so I moved a lot when I was younger.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: And I first started dancing when I was living in Colorado Springs.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we moved to New England, and that's where my training really sort of uh expanded in New England when I moved to that studio, and that's where I started competing.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: But in Colorado Springs, being a boy and dancing was really cool.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: There were so many boys in my studio in Colorado, and and they mostly took tap and jazz, and we took ballet classes, and there were sort of requirements just to take all the styles, but it was not pressurized, and we all wanted to do it, so we all just did it, and we all had a great time, and uh and they all loved to two step, so it was like a lot of country line dancing as well.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: But um, like our dance recital had a huge country line dance in the in the dance recital every year.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: There's just major country line dance.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh yes, I had my own cowboy boots and bell buckles and house.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: It was wild.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: But then I moved to New England, and uh the studio there had very strict comp if you wanted to be on a competition team, you had to take three ballet, three ballet classes a week and your jazz technique class and a tap class, you had to take all of those things.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: And similarly, it was, these are our requirements, and I am such a rule follower, so I said, Okay, and I liked it all, so I can I I I liked the taking all the style, so I did it, and I had no problems with it.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: But I do feel like if I had similarly to Sean said, Oh, I don't want to do that, they probably would have said, It's okay, you we we'll keep you, you know, if I if I had had that.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Um but I I enjoyed all of that, and I think there was an element of with my mom being my primary ballet teacher, a little bit of just that that pressure of, you know, please my mom and you know and also my mom is the my mom was like the cool ballet teacher.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: She was her class was really fun.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Um it didn't take itself too seriously, but yet she had really high expectations for all of us.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: So for me, my my the culture of my studio environment was really positive and welcoming and uh and creative.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: So it it it there was no real pressure to to not want to be there.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be there always.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: Um what do you think it was about that Colorado Springs studio that fostered the interest in dance and the boys are cool for dancing atmosphere?
29:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, do you remember anything about like what what made that happen?
29:47
SPEAKER_03: Because that's not the case everywhere.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: It's definitely not the case everywhere that's a good thing.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I I I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was because when I moved to New England, I was the only male dancer in the studio for a while.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: And then another boy transferred from a different studio, so there were two of us for a while, and then one of the girls' younger brother danced for a while growing up.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: So there was a few of us in the mix, but in Colorado, I couldn't even tell you what it was.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: I think there was more of an emphasis on social dance culturally in Colorado than there is a lot of other places, so it was more normal for just guys to be dancing in a different way.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: And the woman who owned the studio in Colorado, her son danced.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: And he was kind of a jock.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: He was kind of a jock at school.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: So there was, I think, an element of, oh, that's cool, he's cool, we like him.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: And that sort of brought in another group of similar type of male dancers in in that era.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: And this is also in the early 90s, so this is a while ago.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: Um so I couldn't tell you if the same culture exists now in that area or if this was just a little bit of a a time capsule moment, but uh because it definitely does not exist everywhere.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: And in in the in the years in in between performing, I will go teach and choreograph at various studios and and judge and judge on that circuit.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's I don't see a lot of male dancers, especially in those in those those younger years.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't see a lot of it.
31:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_07: Also, I just have to throw in, why does in life, why does jock equal cool?
31:20
SPEAKER_07: You know what I mean?
31:21
SPEAKER_07: Like you were like, you know, the jock like dance too.
31:25
SPEAKER_07: I I'm just saying, I'm just thinking of that, like, I just think that's always historically like the jocks and the cheerleaders are the cool, popular kids in high school.
31:32
SPEAKER_07: And if you're not one of them, then you're not cool.
31:34
SPEAKER_07: And I'm just like, but why is it like that?
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Everything revolves around sports.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Goodness.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: And especially once I moved when I moved to New England, for me, it was like in Colorado, dancing and being a boy was very cool.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: When I moved to New England to New England, dancing and being a boy was not cool.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: So it was a very different experience.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: And um, it was, you know, we don't have to get into all of these things, but it was very difficult for me as a male dancer in New England growing up.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: It was a very, very different experience.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: And in this the school environment, not a very positive one for me when people found out I took dance.
32:15
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32:17
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32:23
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32:32
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33:31
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I obviously did not grow up uh as a male dancer, I grew up as a female dancer, and I still feel like that no one understood what I did because the arts weren't really accepted in my school.
33:43
SPEAKER_07: It was, like you said, Sean, all about sports.
33:45
SPEAKER_07: If you weren't the star lacrosse player at my high school, then no one cared what you did and you were kind of a loser.
33:51
SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, but I love dance, I love arts, and I'm really good at this.
33:54
SPEAKER_07: And everyone knew I was good at it, but they still were like, but what is that?
33:57
SPEAKER_07: What are you even doing?
33:58
SPEAKER_07: What are you?
33:59
SPEAKER_07: Why are you spending every day in dance class?
34:01
SPEAKER_07: Like, you're not gonna do this for real.
34:03
SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, well, no, none of the lacrosse players did this for real, but they were popular in school.
34:08
SPEAKER_07: And you know, I just don't think that there is enough emphasis on arts in general.
34:13
SPEAKER_07: Like we get a little taste of here's a painting class, here's a music class, here's a this.
34:18
SPEAKER_07: And it's just kind of almost very treated as electives, like this, this couldn't be, this isn't really serious.
34:24
SPEAKER_07: And all of us took it serious, and then we're we're not really popular or cool because of that.
34:30
SPEAKER_07: Like, uh-uh, we are living our dreams over here.
34:32
SPEAKER_07: We are the ones that are doing something that we love for a living, probably out of all the other popular kids.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: This is like a tangent, but in fifth grade, I don't know if you guys had this, but like you graduated fifth grade and in your yearbook, you know, you got to say what you wanted to be when you grew up.
34:47
SPEAKER_03: And mine was dance teacher, and I still have that yearbook.
34:49
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, dance teacher was not my end all be all profession, but I have been a dance teacher.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: And I look down that list, I still know these people, I'm like, you didn't do that, you didn't do that, you didn't do that, but I did that.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, come on.
35:01
SPEAKER_03: All of us did the thing we thought we were gonna do, said we were gonna do.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: And I think that really says something, especially for the boys in in the arts world, because if you knew you knew and you were gonna do it and it you didn't vacillate, and you know, you can look back to that fifth grade yearbook and say, I did that.
35:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: I think to those of us I did that.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: To those of us that have stuck with it, you know, it's so kind of cliche, but to say, you know, you were just born to do this, you know, there are just those peoples, especially the creative types, that are very special, you know, and you don't know that at the time, and people treat you differently because they see you differently and they don't understand you.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: But but it's a real passion that you don't know you have when you're that young person, but there's something about it that keeps you going and keeps you invested in it and keeps you learning.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: So so we are the special.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: We are very cool.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: We are very cool people.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, you guys are.
35:51
SPEAKER_03: We are very cool people.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm I'm I've been I also work at um the high school for the performing and visual arts.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: We call it PVA here.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: And it is such a it's it's one of my it's the high school that I wanted to go to when I was in school.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: It's about 45 minutes to an hour away from my actual home.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I grew up in a city called Beaumont.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: And trying to drive here, my mother just was it wasn't gonna happen.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: And she didn't trust that I was gonna stay with you know that friends or family, that they would take care of me in that way so consistently.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: So I just wasn't able to come.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: And now being on faculty and watching, like they don't wrap your mind around this.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: And maybe you've maybe you've experienced this, but I certainly have not.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: They don't have a cafeteria.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Everything that they do, every like them eating, they can sit anywhere in the hallways.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: It's it's like it's the things you see in movies, it's like the quiet.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: But they they have these these moments where I I have these moments where I'm just walking out after my class and I see these kids that would not under the normal set of circumstances or what is shown in the movies, be considered cool.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: But that is what the entire school is performing in visual arts.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, sports teams where?
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you talking about?
37:09
SPEAKER_01: We have the dance department, we have the visual arts department, we have the uh pianists, we have we you know, we're going to their concerts and we're cheering for them like they are the football players.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: When I I just choreographed for their fall dance concert, and the audience response, it was like a football game.
37:27
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: And I just was looking around like, y'all really like this that much?
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Or are we just like this is a this is the theater, what's going on?
37:35
SPEAKER_01: And it was just so awesome, and it's it's it just tells me that this is exactly there are spaces like this, there are places like this, and we just need to kind of get that that story out into the world more.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, all we have is fame and then and center stage, maybe, and then it's like, okay, those are our movies.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: And like like Leslie said, if you know, you know.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like more people need to know.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: And we just had a performing arts high school episode where I think you're right to to highlight those kind of environments where, yeah, the boys' dancing is 1000% accepted.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, give me all the boys at the performing arts high school.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: And so if there's any, you know, parents out there of boys who are like in that early stages of deciding, do I want to do this?
38:20
SPEAKER_03: Look into the performing arts high school because I guarantee you, number one, they want boys.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: You're you're gonna get in.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, let's just put that out there right now.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: No, no boy is getting uh not accepted to a performing arts high school.
38:31
SPEAKER_03: And two, they will be so accepted and so nurtured there in another in a way that they're not gonna get, I don't think, probably from any public school in in the dance world or you know, anything else, like you said, visual arts or music or anything like that.
38:45
SPEAKER_07: Something I'm curious to learn is to know if you either of you had any male teachers growing up, or when was your first experience with a male teacher in your dance training?
38:56
SPEAKER_02: When I was dancing in Colorado Springs, I did not have a single male teacher.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: And then when we were moving to New England, my mom was a member of Dance Masters of America, and she was looking at studios in the area where we're going to be living to specifically see if there were any male or ballet teachers.
39:14
SPEAKER_07: Good job, mom.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: And so the studio that I went to, because there was like there was a a legit ballet school in my hometown that she considered and w she ultimately put me at this other studio where Tony Williams, who was a principal dancer for the Boston Ballet for a long time, was teaching.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: And so she specifically went there to to to take me.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: And it was still that studio that had tap and ballet and jazz and all the other styles, but he was my ballet teacher at that studio for a few years before he left the area.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: And he was my only ballet male ballet teacher, or teacher of any style of dance.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay throughout all of junior high and high school.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: My only teacher.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: And I would it wasn't until I started doing I started competing when I was eleven.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't probably until I was 13 that I started doing conventions and started doing the the title pageants and competing for those titles and stuff.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: And it was in those years where I would go to conventions and I would go to to that sort of world of competitive dance where I would take classes from other male teachers.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: So then I took class from Scott Fowler and all these other all these other people in that world that were the uh was my real first experience, Michael Taylor and other people that just really exposed me to that side of things.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: And other teachers in my area too.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: It was like Regold and Rennie Gold, their studio in Massachusetts.
40:41
SPEAKER_02: They were big influences for me growing up too.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: And once I started to see other male dancers and other male teachers in my area as I would compete and travel, that's when I got more exposure.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: But in like my studio life, it was only Tony, the one teacher.
40:55
SPEAKER_07: Interesting.
40:56
SPEAKER_07: What about you, Sean?
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't I didn't have um I'm I I uh echo that sentiment.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: I did not have a single male teacher growing up.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: I didn't understand that men could teach dance.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: It didn't really which is so, I mean, where's the irony in that?
41:15
SPEAKER_01: Because quite frankly, when you step into the the industry, every choreographer is a man and every director is a man.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, but all the teachers a second.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Like somebody make that make sense.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I did not I did not have didn't have a single one.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And then when I went to college, I actually started at NYU before I transferred over to Fordham, and my first male teacher was Gus Solomon Jr.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: And he was just I don't know if anyone has had the the the experience of uh well, I mean I can look around and know no one's had this specific experience, but an experience similar to that of a young black man from Texas, a small city in Texas, moving to the largest city in the world and having the first teacher on the docket be someone who looks like you for the first time ever.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, it just, I mean, like it was like a cheat code, and my whole mind just went just unlocked.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: And it was like, anything you say to me, I will do.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Anything you you bring to me as a as a someone who's done this, and someone who is just so I didn't have any idea how um fabulous Gus Solomon Jr.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: was at the time.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: And of course, the older you get, the more you're like, wait, hold on.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: That was just that was the guy who I used to sit and have coffee with, and he used to just tell me all these stories about Merce Cunningham and Martha Graham, and just all of these, these, and Paul Taylor, just these giants in the industry, and you were just sitting down, having coffee with me, inviting me to your home, showing me old pictures and going through archives, and I even did a photo shoot with him for uh Jordan Matter Dancers After Dark.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: We were literally standing and looking at each other just butt-necked, me and this old this older dancer with his cane, and we were naked in Union Square.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow! Excuse me, in the Washington Square Park for Jordan Matter, and I just I just remember thinking, God, I love you, Gus.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: What an incredible guy.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: And then when I transferred to um Fordham and Ailey, I had you know many male teachers.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh Tracy Enman, who's now one of the school co-directors, Milton Myers, who was just the Horton master teacher, uh Freddie Moore and Dudley Williams, uh, who also was the longest tenured member with the Ailey Company and also danced for Martha Graham way back before the Ailey Company even existed.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's it was just like opening my mind in ways that I didn't realize it needed to be opened because I had only experienced female teachers and they provided what they could, but there's something that you get from someone who has the same physiology as you, who understands the way our bodies work a little bit differently.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Who understands who can speak to you on a very direct level?
44:06
SPEAKER_01: My favorite thing that I've ever been told was um by Milton Myers when I had to partner uh a young lady in Isba, which is a piece that uh Alvin Ailey did in the 80s.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: They were resetting it on us for junior junior rep.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: And uh he came into rehearsal one day and he said, you have to understand that no one's watching you, son.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: It's about her.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And I said, oh but that he said no no no no no I know what you're about to say and when you're partnering her it's not about you.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So get ugly low.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Get just you do what you have to do to get her up in the air because no one's gonna worry about you being like as low as you are.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna worry about her being as high as she is.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: And I remember really not liking that because that's exactly why I didn't go I said that's exactly why I didn't go into the ballet world because I wanted to be the star.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: So hold on.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: And I realized I said oh this is everywhere.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay well I guess that's what it is.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: But you know it it was it was honest and I know that a lot of if I would have heard that coming from a female teacher I probably would have thought there was a little bit of well why would I work so hard to make you look so great?
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Why wouldn't I work as hard to make me look fantastic?
45:17
SPEAKER_01: But hearing it from him I knew that this was he was speaking from experience and um you know I I believed it immediately.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Was that fair that I believed him immediately and not someone else?
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Probably not but it's the way it worked.
45:29
SPEAKER_07: I mean it says a lot it definitely says a lot about you know how who influences you as a training dancer in a young mind and even what you know even on you're in Colin of seeing other representation like yourself.
45:45
SPEAKER_07: You know you growing up with male dancers in Colorado and then going to a whole new place that has none and that you you're just like am I ever going to see another male dancer out here?
45:55
SPEAKER_07: Like you just want to feel like this is something that exists in the in the world and you're not the only one.
46:01
SPEAKER_07: So to be exposed to conventions and workshops and things where you are able to see other males like yourself it's it's that that's what's gonna keep you as a male dancer going.
46:11
SPEAKER_07: Because for uh for the female dancers every every little kid starts dance every three year old mommy puts a tutu on and every girl has done a dance class at some point in life it is saturated with female dancers.
46:23
SPEAKER_07: It is a very small percent of of male dancers in the industry.
46:26
SPEAKER_07: So to have that representation for both of you I'm sure was hugely impactful in your your growing years and training years and professional years too.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and part of your part part of your training I think is that exposure that's not in that room it's it's seeing those other things.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: So it's going to see a ballot company perform going to see that that modern company that's touring through going to see that Broadway show that's on tour that's coming through your city going to the community theater production going to your other you know going to see other things instead of I feel like so many areas are just like they're just they just stay in their little bubble and they don't know anything outside of that.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: And and so that's why I'm so grateful to the experiences that I've had because I I learned so much and I got so much exposure from things that didn't even directly it come into contact with me.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: It was just me seeing them.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: But that took me going outside of my area in my studio.
47:17
SPEAKER_02: And part of that was my teachers doing that and my mom doing that and other people doing that for me.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately not a lot of people have that support or have the that ability to to get out of that.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like that's where some of those young dancers don't have that exposure.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: So they don't they don't know that they can do that.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: They don't see themselves anywhere, you know so it's it's so that it it's a challenge.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: That's so awesome for you Colin.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking I'm I'm sorry I'm just thinking like I'm putting it into perspective of my experience to have that mother who knew who was your first dance teacher and really knew to to expand your horizons and bring you out and just to show you all of that.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean my mom did she had no idea my dance teachers in high school finally said you should go see the Ailey company.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: I was like oh they've been down the street every year for my entire career and no one thought to to show me this company full of black dancers what it's just I mean so I it's just it must have been so awesome to have had that that kind of built in um exposure through your mom and and through your your dance background.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I just think that's so awesome.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah no I'm very fortunate and very thankful for for all that and my mom danced with a local ballet company in in San Jose when she was in college and uh and so she you know had a a a little taste of her own professional dance career but mostly it was just educating.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: And uh but she knew once I once she saw that it was something that I was really passionate about and that had and that I had the potential to pursue that she definitely helped steer that.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: And then the studio especially I really credit my studio in New Hampshire and those teachers there for exposing me as well.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: And but also too they it was it was a small local studio in New Hampshire so they the the women who ran that studio who were my primary teachers growing up they just grew up dancing and loved to dance and wanted to educate dancers and just spread that education.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: They never really I don't think ever set out to train professional dancers.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: I was the first dancer from the studio to go on a pursue a professional career.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow and she's now been operating for she just had like her 30th anniversary or something like that.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: And since like my my generation of dancers was the first to start to go out to the professional world.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: So she's now had dancers that have done Vegas, done the cruise chip circuits, gone onto company dance work and pursue those careers.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: And I think similarly for those students that have followed us, like they needed to see us go do that to say, oh I could go do that.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh so it's it's you know it's it's there's there's always somebody that has to be kind of the first in that area or the first for this community to see that success or see that opportunity to say oh I could do that because I never really had that.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: And growing up I always thought oh I'll be a ballet dancer because my mom does ballet and I'm gonna be a ballet dancer.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: And I did go take uh at a ballet school in Massachusetts on the weekends and I did nutcracker every year from like the second grade through my early 20s and I did all their spring recitals and I thought I was gonna go to be ballet dancer.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: And this woman who ran that school she used to dance for ABT so she trained ballet dancers but she didn't have any boys so she was like please stay please please please stay.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and uh and one summer one summer she forced me she like she forced me she's like you are auditioning for all these summer programs.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: So I auditioned for all these ballet summer programs and I got into a number of them and I told my mom I was really scared to say this to my mom though because after I got accepted I had this fear that if I went to this immersive ballet program I would come out of there hating it because I really liked it but I but I was not sure if I really wanted to be a ballet dancer.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: I didn't really know what I wanted to do in the dance world and I didn't really know where I could go.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: And I told my mom I don't think I want to go to these programs and she said fine you won't go.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: You don't want to go you don't go and so I didn't go the other ballet teacher was not happy with me.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: But um and and it was it was around that time I was like a sophomore in high school and I was starting to get more interested in theater and I would go see the tours that would come through and we would go to New York and see shows and I started to then go see shows and started to have an idea of maybe that's something I could do.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: You know I would go see the national I saw the National Tour of Cats like 12 times when it came through.
51:26
SPEAKER_02: Wow the National Tour of Cats I saw when I was four years old is actually one of my first memories is seeing that that that production.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Wow but it it just took all these years of figuring out how seeing other people doing something that I realized at a certain point in high school well that's a job.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: I could actually do that.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: How do I do that?
51:45
SPEAKER_07: And then I had to figure that out but something I'm curious to to hear from you both in regards to training and maybe talking to some of the younger male dancers out there who maybe do have aspirations to be a professional and make a career out of this or maybe even speaking to the dance teachers who are training a really talented male dancer and helpful tips for them.
52:08
SPEAKER_07: But what are some of the things based on your experiences as professionals that would be the best advice that you can give to young male dancers as to what they need to be learning how to do certain things that might vary differently from maybe a female identifying dancer you know coming from the male perspective?
52:24
SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
52:25
SPEAKER_02: It's a big question.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: It is the one thing that I wish that I knew more about when I was younger was fitness.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: I would go to dance class from 4 to 9 p.m Monday through Friday and then I'd go take ballet from like 10 to 12 on Saturdays and I just danced all the time and I just thought I'm in shape I am I'm dancing all the time blah blah blah.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: And my dance my teachers would talk about anatomy and they would talk about placements and how to take care of her bodies and prevent injuries and all that stuff and your technique, all that stuff.
52:59
SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't until I started doing professional dance and actually doing many shows where I really physically had to partner with uh part like truly partner women and I realized oh I don't know how to do this.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: I never had any real male instruction on how to partner and those years that I had Tony as my ballet teacher I was still sort of too young to really be doing any real legitimate partnering.
53:20
SPEAKER_05: Right.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: And then once I got old enough to do that my my female teachers would give us lifts to do but they didn't know how I needed to do them.
53:27
SPEAKER_02: I just sort of figured it out by myself.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: And similar to Sean like I will never forget my my first lyrical duet we had this like corner to corner pass where it was like basically my she did like gronchete and I lifted her and then she'd do like shaw and I would just lift her and travel and I will never forget there's this video of me doing it and she's in the air and I am on my tippy toes going thinking me being on my toes is going to get her higher and being realizing no it is not about that you know but I ultimately didn't have a whole lot of upper body upper body strength and I was not I'm just not a naturally strong fit muscular person.
54:08
SPEAKER_02: And in my professional years I've had to do some shows my Broward debut come fly away.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: I've had to do many other shows with Twilight partnering.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: And so so and and it wasn't until those experiences where I realized oh I don't know how to really do this properly and I realized that I was not really in shape in that phys physically fit way and I've spent many years thank you Mark Fish for fitness in New York City I've spent have many CrossFit coaches around the country when I've toured I got into CrossFit and now I'm working with Joe Roscoe built for the stage working on my training on my body which I have when I was doing the World Premiere Heat Wave, the Jack Cole project at the Queen's Theater in in New York Chet Walker was setting this show and it was all the movement of Jack Cole.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: It's it was so incredible to work on his oh my gosh it was so incredible to work on this material and and and see his influence in the world of jazz dance but it was the hardest dancing I've ever done in my life and that's when I really really truly got into fitness and I was training and lifting and really aggressively and I've never danced better and I've never partnered better.
55:19
SPEAKER_02: And the ability to to understand like how to move weight through space just doing like a clean with a barbell and doing a push press with a barbell really helped me translate to how to manipulate another person.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: And it was really fascinating over the last 10-15 years to see how that fitness training has really helped inform my dance training and my partnering specifically and definitely as a male dancer no matter if you're doing modern, if you're doing contemporary or if you're doing theater there's a time where you're gonna have to partner somebody.
55:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: And so I wish that at an earlier age I had more knowledge and more training and just fitness and and not just for the partnering sense but also just how to take care of my body in that way as well is really really helpful.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: And especially as I'm getting older because I just uh just turned 40.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's it's so important especially as like an older person but somebody that's still trying to pursue professional career how to take care of my body it's still a journey that I'm struggling with.
56:16
SPEAKER_02: You know I have my good days bad days good years bad years but um but it's that's the thing I wish I had more knowledge and experience at a younger age.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: That's a long-winded way of that sorry my answer is quite similar.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: I I really do wish I knew more about anatomy and physiology going into things I am if you've ever seen me dance obviously with Ailey it was all mostly barefoot dancing or you know when they bring contemporary ballet it would be in ballet slippers but mostly barefoot or socks.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: And um I am a naturally pronated dancer.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: Like my feet I call them flintstone feet which is you know just my way of making fun of the thing that I didn't know to fix and now what once I finally understood it was a little too late.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: I did what I could with with my feet mainly just it was more so aesthetically I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the one with you know like a a golf club swinging at the end of his his leg.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: Because you know you wanted to be I want to I want to have a career I want to be in photos I want to be somebody that is not known for bad feet quote unquote.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: And so I really do wish that I had the knowledge and the understanding of my specific anatomy and how I could use it to the best of my ability a lot of things were forgiven by youth because the body bounce you know the body bounces back and so the things that I didn't realize were actual injuries were injuries were in fact injuries and I would you know I've I've been thankful never to have been majorly injured in my you know now 15 or 16 year career.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: But it it it is I it is now taking its toll on me currently I might if you had X-ray vision and look down at this right ankle I'm sure there's something going on in there and it's just it now it's come from teaching because I was so used to staying up and and being um always being warm and always taking class at least five or six times a week.
58:17
SPEAKER_01: And then the pandemic hit and all of that came to a crashing halt.
58:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was off from Lion King for about 18 months, I believe 18 or 19 months.
58:27
SPEAKER_01: And trying to step back into that because I felt like I never stopped because I was always teaching but I us teachers know who are we're all still performers as well.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: We know that it's that being in performance shape and being in teaching shape are two very different things.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: Very different and trying to step back into that was was truly just it was it was it was like plunging into very very ice cold water.
58:53
SPEAKER_01: It was like taking that ice bath at the end of the night it was not fun and um and I remember thinking after about three or four months I don't really want to do this anymore.
59:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to work my my body doesn't it doesn't seem to want to do it because I kept feeling those those pains and I said I've never felt this before but you know after two years of being off your body'll say yeah yeah you probably shouldn't have paused and so now you know I'm dealing with little just little hiccups and things because I'm not on stage constantly I'm not preparing my body for performance constantly as as I've gotten used to and I'm also as Colin was saying I'm now getting used to my body as what it is now.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm watching the change happen.
59:36
SPEAKER_01: And I unfortunately never really got into fitness my um my exercise was dance class and is dance class it still is I am I cannot motivate myself to lift a weight or to do like to I just oh I just don't care.
59:52
SPEAKER_01: I want to care but I don't I feel all the time I really do want to care and then I'll I'll just look at myself sometimes I'll be in the because I I usually I'm the last person in the studio in the evenings and sometimes I'll just I'll truly just take off my shirt and look in the mirror and just say okay it's we're still we're still kind of doing it you know my husband still likes it so it's alright.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_01: But we're alright but but it's it's you know it's just it's that's just my funny way of trying to come to grips with the fact that my body is changing and my abilities are are changing and um as much as I say I want to get back in class when I do it it's it's really I know I'm getting I'm long winded about this because it's it's kind of emotional unfortunately for me.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: But it it takes me to a place of as much as I still want to do this and as much as I know the heart is willing the body isn't quite as able anymore.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I'm slowly coming to to grips with as um as you know the years creep by and um and now I'm watching and sending out students to do the thing that I love to do so much and that I still want to do but I can't do it at that level anymore.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_01: So there's a it's a bittersweet symphony going on in my in my mind in my heart at all times.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: But to go back to the original question to to sum it up I wish I knew more about the anatomy my specific anatomy so that I could have had I could have prolonged the the longevity of my career a bit more.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_07: I think we all makes total wish we had we knew that we talk about it often and we've done injury episodes and and we all of us Leslie and I both when we talk about different topics we just say like oh it's just not how it used to be our bodies like you know we have gain a new injury every time and oh I can't do this anymore and I can't do this backbend anymore whatever it is and it's just like I think it is important for us to to hear that for people to hear that but also for us to talk about it because I remember my teachers would always say like your body's not going to be that flexible forever.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_07: Like you you think you're invincible right now at if it's 16 years old but it's not going to be that way when you're mine.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: I say that three times a week well and like Sean I mean you just really hit my heart when you said you know as much as your heart wants it, your body remembers it if you like I haven't been to class and I couldn't tell you how long because I've had so many injuries and what's sad is like I watch a show and I'm still watching oh that's my track.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_03: I could do that track.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_03: That's my track and like what are you talking about?
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: Like what are you literally what are you talking about?
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: But like because I rem my body remembers I know how to do that.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_03: But then you would try to do it and your body's like oh girl oh no no not anymore.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_03: And that is the third like heartbreaking part is that like if I had the willpower and the and the actual energy to get back into class the way I used to, I could probably still do that with some modifications maybe but like you know aging is crazy for for men and women and it's yeah I the youth listen up like your elders are here to tell you.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_03: Listen y'all enjoy that youth while you have it.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_07: Take care of your body I'm not gonna say I listened but you should you should no more knee slams please I certainly didn't please no that's an entire other episode under the co-artistic direction of Francisco Kella and Usha Marie Zorzano Zeitgeist Dance Theater is a summer season professional dance company based in Santa Fe New Mexico from the German word Zeit meaning tide and geist meaning spirit known as the spirit of the tide zeitgeist dance theater reflects the now the essence and the spirit of the age in which they presently resist dance theater discusses topics that are difficult as if topics are not discussed change will not come.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_07: A core company value is understanding what is going on in the daily atmosphere and having the response for the future.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_07: The company also offers a training experience providing emerging professional artists from ages 17 to 24 with a taste of professional company life.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_07: The company's trainees are selected annually through an audition process to participate in a three-week integrated company experience during the summer culminating in a performance at the New Century Dance Project Festival.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_07: Application submissions for the training experience open on December 1st 2024.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_07: Learn more about Zeitgeist Dance Theater and their trainee experience by visiting their website at zeitgeistdance theater dot organique do y'all have a few more minutes I have one more I have one more like question that I think is important for us to address because you're the men.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_03: We are not the men Courtney and I we're not the men put on your male dance teacher hat.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_03: Speak to the children the male children and the parents of male children who dance about the importance of the dance belt because it's important and I we I can talk about it all I want Courtney to talk about it but like it needs to come from the male dance teacher please.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean we started off the conversation with Sean talking about dress code so we let's end it with the dress code let let me tell you in a very succinct way um it took the same way it took me till I was 17 to get in ballet class it took me until about 18 to put on a dance belt and here's why I did not understand what what I called um the crotch pockets.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: I didn't understand them.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: I said well why does that need to be because then what what what it was in my mind was it brings attention directly to the place that I am I I'm the only one in the room that has this anatomy.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm the only one in the room that looks the way I look I don't need any extra eyes on me in that way.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_01: I want I want you to tell me how great I am as a dancer.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't want you to be looking at me you know like oh what's that Thing, what's that pouch?
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: What's that bulge?
1:06:02
SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_01: And so I was very, very like more, probably more than normal, uncomfortable about putting on a dance belt.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: It had nothing to do with the thong.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: It had everything to do with I didn't want extra attention on me.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: And what it took for me was knowing that I needed to audition.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: I went to my first college audition in person at um the Dallas Booker G Washington uh high school for the performing visual arts.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_01: God, that's a long title.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: And I looked around the room.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_01: I brought the dance belt because I knew I had to have it.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_01: I but I waited till the absolute last minute.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_01: And there were other gentlemen that were auditioning and they it had they had no concern about it.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I said, Okay, if they're not concerned, I'm not concerned.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_01: So I put it on.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: It was perfectly comfortable.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: I had no issues.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_01: But I did, I remember um asking, speaking of Re and Rennie Gold, I remember asking Kyle Robinson, who was our Mr.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_01: Dance of America of like you know, 2000, whatever it was, and also Teddy Forrens.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: And and I remember asking them in the dressing room, I had never seen a dance brief.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: And I said, What's that?
1:07:09
SPEAKER_01: What's that?
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: I said, That looks comfortable.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: And they said, Oh, yeah, this is this is all I wear.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no need to wear the thong back if it's not necessary.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, this provides, I'm sure in very high school terms, I'm I'm making them sound a lot more professional than we probably were talking at the time.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: But this provides the same level of comfort and protection while not having to you could wear it all day if you needed to.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: And from that day on, I said, life change.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_01: Unless I'm wearing tights, I will be in a dance brief.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: It is it it changed the game for me as a student.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: And then I realized again, I went looking around and I said, Oh, everyone's in this thongback.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be the one in like a granny panty.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: So then I went back to the thongback.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_01: And now you can't get me out of me.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: I got one on right now because I can teach after this.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: I went ahead and said, It's listen, you get the right one, you find the right fit.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_01: Wear moi is my brand.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, um, waistband, nice, stretchy elastic, doesn't soft, a comfortable.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it I'm totally on board with the dance belt, and I I preach it to my young gentleman um that that I have because you know they're all very similar.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't want people watching.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: Baby, pull up those tights.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_01: You have Saggy Crotch.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_01: I know you don't, I know why you're doing it.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: I know why you're doing it.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_01: Come on into come on, come on into my office, leave the door open.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: Come on into my office because we're gonna talk about something personal and private, but we're gonna talk about it at a hushed in a hushed voice because I want to make sure that you're comfortable and that you know that I also went through the exact same thing and that I'm not telling you anything.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: I would not steer you wrong.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_01: I want you to be comfortable above all, but I want you to be safe.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_01: And we have to protect the anatomy more than anything.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: That would be my spiel.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_03: Such a good one.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_03: Round of applause from Colin.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_02: Round of applause, Christian.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had I had a similar experience, but and I agree at the end of the day, ultimately it's about your your comfort and your protection.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: And for me, when I moved to the studio in New Hampshire, because before that, the in Colorado, it was like I was just wearing my Hanes, whatever, under my sweatpants.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_02: Like there was no dress code.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_02: Even like my ballet classes was like, I was in like a bike short, but I still had like just briefs on or whatever it was.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: And uh in in New Hampshire it was no, no, this ballet teacher said, No, you're wearing a dance belt and this is what it is.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_02: And I got the Capezio thong, you know, and I the one.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_02: I think we had back then.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_03: The waistband's so thick, y'all.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_03: Why is it so thick?
1:09:39
SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_02: I just folded down handles.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_02: Fold my love handles.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_02: And it was like, but uh, but but when I was doing the the nutcracker every year, I was like, I was playing the nutcracker, then I moved up to this the snow king, and then I was playing the sugar plum cavalier.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_02: And just like, what else are you gonna wear those time?
1:09:58
SPEAKER_02: How that evolved, but it's just what you gotta do.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_02: So I just accepted it and I said, Okay, I want to do this, I want to perform in this piece, and I want to be in this class.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_02: This is just kind of what it is.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_02: And so I got used to just wearing it because I had no choice.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_02: And then it wasn't until I was doing a professional show, years, years, years later, where I was asked by the wardrobe supervisor, what do you want to wear?
1:10:21
SPEAKER_02: And I said, I have an option.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_02: I had no idea there were options.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_02: I was like, What?
1:10:28
SPEAKER_02: And and they were like, Well, we can give you a a full seat dance belt, is what they called it.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I wear now.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_02: That's what I always ask for.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_02: It's a capizio full seat dance belt.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's just basically, you know, brief.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_02: It's super comfortable, especially like these days where I'm in rehearsal all afternoon and tech for 12 hours and all that stuff in my costumes.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_02: It's something that I feel very comfortable in.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_02: And I haven't had to wear white tights in a very, very long time.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_02: So I hope that I never have to put on white tights again, so I don't have to go back bravo.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_02: But it's definitely, I feel like, a rite of passage.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_02: And uh and uh and it's okay.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_02: But just know there are options and there are different companies, and it takes a little bit of experimentation.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_02: Same thing with any any type of clothing.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_02: You can try it on, see if it fits.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_02: Same thing with point shoes, you know, it's like you have to try, you know, whatever's gonna feel most comfortable to you and fit and suit you best.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_02: So just know that there are options for dance posts.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_02: There is not a one size fits all, only this one.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_02: And uh and yeah, that's great.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_01: I would I would tell the parents, and honestly, I would tell the the it was one of the things I tell my my my gentleman as well.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't know if you're as vain as I was and slash still am, but go go ahead and pull up, pull them up, pull them up.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_01: I know it's gonna pull them up, get those, put the dance belt on, and pull those tights up.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_01: We should be able to see the lines.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:11:56
SPEAKER_01: The saggy crotch is a big thing.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, nobody needs baggy tights.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: Nobody needs tights, and you'd be surprised at how many people still will do exactly what I did, which is wear them as low as possible so that you're not being seen in that way.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: It's like, my friend, my friend, show the lines.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_01: Show this is this is an aesthetic-based art form.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a visual art form.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: We need to see the lines.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: Why do all of that work when we're not gonna see it?
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: Put on the dance belt, hike up the tights.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_01: If you need to wear a basketball short over top of it, you know, to go ahead and get comfortable just having them on, go ahead.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: But when we're on stage and when we're in class, you know, it is what it is.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: Very much like college.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_01: This is what it is.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_01: This is the thing.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_02: And the saggy tights, all it does is just bring more attention to it.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's all all you're doing.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_02: It's all you're doing.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_02: Exactly Yeah.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_01: Because now I'm looking like is the leg up or now we've got different.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_07: I you know, as Leslie said, uh Leslie and I are not men.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_07: We do not have to wear dance belts, obviously.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_07: But I will say, as a judge watching at competition, there are many times where I am wishing a dancer had a dance belt on.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_07: It is no different than the whole talk that we talk about with female identifying dancers not wearing tights on stage and seeing way too much that we shouldn't be seeing.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_07: The same thing applies with male identifying dancers, making sure that you are wearing the proper undergarments to support yourself for safety and visually on stage because you're under stage lights, and sometimes I've seen a lot of things that I do not want to be seeing, and I don't know how to nicely say please put a dance belt on if I am not on a teacher micro.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_07: It is important.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_07: I think pro under any costume, any costume, if you are on stage, you better have that thing on.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes, please.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes, please and thank you.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_07: Please and thank you.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_07: Y'all, this is your judges and your audience.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_07: Yes, exactly.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_07: Yes, and the live stream and the photographer and the video that you're gonna look back at everybody.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_03: Well, and I mean, let's let's face it, Sean.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, this is an aesthetic art form.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_03: If it didn't matter what you looked like, you know, like yeah, to an extent, we can all control so many things.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: We talk about this in our performance episodes all the time.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, we can't control stuff, we cannot control the floor, I can't control the lighting, I can't control whether the music stops.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_03: But like I can look my best and present myself in the best way possible.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_03: And one of those items to help you do that is a dance belt.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_01: Is the dance belt.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_03: Good old dance belt.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_01: The foundational item, as a matter of fact.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: The humble dance belt.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: Yes, indeed.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this was a fabulous chat.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_07: And I am so grateful to have you both here and sh and sharing your love from what you've learned through the years and reminiscing so much.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_07: I feel like we just chatted a lot about the the early days of dance for you both.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_07: And I I really love hearing that journey.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_07: And um, you shared such great advice to all of our male dancers out there in the dance world, maybe for also studios who might not have male teachers or studios that are navigating what it's like to have a male dancer in their studio.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_07: It's it's really awesome what you shared.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_07: So hopefully, um, to all of our boy and male dancers, identifying dancers out there in the dance world, hope you enjoyed this chat with our special guests, Colin and Sean.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_07: Thank you for spending your afternoon over here recording with us.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_07: And how all of our guests lead us out on making the impact is with one final thought on the topic.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_07: And you can talk to whoever you'd like.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_07: You can talk to young, aspiring male dancers who want to be like you one day and be a professional.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_07: You can talk to the studios or the teachers, you can talk to male educators out there, you can talk to anyone and everyone when it comes to boys in dance.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_01: I would talk to the young dancers uh in the studio, male dancers and female dancers alike.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_01: Every single dancer I would say, and this is a bit of uh personal, it's a personal situation, but it is it is a piece of advice.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_01: If you are fortunate to have a diverse teaching staff, make sure that you provide the same level of respect and value to every single member of the faculty, every single technique, not just the ones you like, not just the ones you enjoy more than others, not just the ones that brings you the most joy.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: Dance in general is the thing that should bring you that joy.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_01: And if you love it, we have to continue to make sure that we are providing a safe and respectful atmosphere for every single teacher, faculty member, choreographer, director, um, the same way that you expect them to do it for you as a dancer.
1:16:29
SPEAKER_01: And what I have experienced in my my uh time as an educator is that because I come in pretty jovial and very down-to-earth and relaxed, I notice that the the opportunity to be taken advantage of is very present.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_01: And I allow it to an extent, but then most of my students know that I will also come in hot like that, because I don't accept being treated any differently than your your female ballet teacher.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_01: Just because I am a male modern teacher or a male contemporary teacher, a jazz teacher, what have you, does not mean that I will be treated any differently than you know, Madam Ballet Mistress.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, because it is the same level of respect here and there.
1:17:15
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I would leave with the the younger generation.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_01: A bit of advice is to make sure that we are providing the same level of respect, if especially if you are fortunate enough to have a diverse uh faculty and staff working with you.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_02: That's so important.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_02: I think uh the concept of respect uh is lost these days.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is advice for the dancers, as Sean just stated, but also really for the teachers to cultivate an environment where we can support and promote our creativity and we can support and promote our passion for our dance, but also still have respect for the art forms, for the teachers, for your various dancers as well in those rooms.
1:18:01
SPEAKER_02: Because I've gone into different studio settings as a teacher where I'm the guest teacher and the lack of respect that I'm shown from the staff and or from the students is sometimes wild.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_02: And and I grew up in an environment where it was there was such structure to the studio and but there was still support and love and passion within all of that.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_02: And I was back home teaching at my studio this summer, and one of the other guest teachers came into the the break room between classes and she said to my dance teachers, I love it here because the kids were respectful, they were attentive, they were really trying hard.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like when when you promote an environment where we're gonna work hard, we're gonna have fun, but we're gonna work hard.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_02: And when you work hard, you're gonna succeed.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_02: And when you succeed, that makes you want to work harder.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_02: And when you see your friends succeed, you want to work harder.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think we need to just the teachers out there, my advice for all the teachers is to try to really focus in on promoting that across the board.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like I've seen so many dancers, young dancers who are so fixated on themselves, and to also just realize to the young dancers out there that if you want to go out and be a professional dancer, sure you might aspire to be that soloist in the ballet company or that principal dancer or that star of this Meek Broadway show.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_02: But you're not just gonna go straight there.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_02: You have to work your way to get there, and it's a journey, and you're gonna have to work with other people.
1:19:30
SPEAKER_02: And so always be be mindful of respecting those around you, learning from those around you as well, because so much of your growth can come from watching somebody else in the room and learning from them and trying to set it trying to set a good example from the teachers down so that those students have a good example to learn from so that they can go out and they can be the example setters for those coming up underneath them.
1:19:54
SPEAKER_02: I think that's so important, and I feel like that is getting lost these days.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_02: So let's try to hold on to that.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_07: We hope you enjoyed our first episode of 2024 all about boys in dance.
1:20:09
SPEAKER_07: Shout out to our special guests, Colin and John, for joining us on this chat.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_07: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_07: You can find John at HookDon and Colin at CBCosters.
1:20:21
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1:20:27
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1:20:34
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1:20:42
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1:20:49
SPEAKER_07: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Dive Dance Competition.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_07: Dive produces top quality events for all levels of performers with brand new skill-based platforms.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_07: Dive's regional dance competitions are held in North and South Carolina and offer an inspirational and positive atmosphere for dancers to grow and express themselves.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_07: The Dive Vision challenges all dancers to be the best competitor, performer, student, and artist they can be.
1:21:14
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1:21:18
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1:21:23
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1:21:34
SPEAKER_07: To learn more about their upcoming events and view their tour dates, check them out online at divedance.com and follow them on Instagram at DiveDance.com.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_03: The second half of season five of Making the Impact is coming your way with episodes on A Day in the Life of a Dance Competition, our next studio spotlight episode, and a crash course on award ceremonies.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_07: Wishing you a wonderful 2024.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_07: We'll see you next week.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_07: Until then, keep dancing.