Latest / The Parenting Podcast / When Other People’s Opinions Follow You Home | Ep. 218

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When Other People’s Opinions Follow You Home | Ep. 218 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Cheryl: what parenting, decisions have you made primarily because you were afraid of what other people would think?
• 0:08
  Speaker: It's amazing how one little comment can take up so much room in your head.
• 0:15
  Speaker: It doesn't even have to be critical, just enough to make you wonder, and suddenly you're not trying to figure out what's best for your child anymore.
• 0:28
  Speaker: You're trying to parent through someone else's opinion
• 0:41
  Cheryl: We're back in here in the recording studio today, listeners, and we have Christie and our good friend, Joanne Crawford.
• 0:48
  Christie: Thank you for having me back.
• 0:49
  Cheryl: Okay, so catching everybody up, last time we were together, we started processing with a question that a good friend of yours had.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: So remind us what the question is, right.
• 1:00
  Joanne: We were discussing my friend who was feeling very insecure in her parenting decisions around a certain family member who would be very, not so much vocal, but make some passive-aggressive comments and some facial expressions- Yeah.
• 1:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm that helped her to feel, you know, just judged and not so confident.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: Very true, and it just, cutting her off at the knees, taking all of her confidence, and we spent sort of a whole episode saying,"Boy, do we understand."
• 1:29
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: And that, uh, particularly now with social media and our expanded world, uh, that it, it doesn't have to just be a physically local family member or friend.
• 1:43
  Cheryl: We now have the whole world watching us and, and removing our confidence, and then the question of,"So what do we do?"
• 1:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:52
  Cheryl: How do we figure this out?
• 1:53
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: And that's kinda where we left last time, because it is a complicated issue, and where I want to start, and I have a question to ask the two of you.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: So what parenting decisions have you made primarily because you were afraid of what other people would think?
• 2:13
  Christie: Oh, wow.
• 2:14
  Christie: Oh, gosh, so many.
• 2:16
  Christie: Oh, that's- So many.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 2:18
  Christie: First thing that pops into my mind is a, a teenage daughter calling me to tell me that she's with her friend, and they're making prom plans.
• 2:26
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 2:27
  Christie: And everybody's parent has agreed that the after-prom party can happen- Oh at this, this one location, boys, girls- Oh that this was happening.
• 2:40
  Christie: And I took the bait and assumed she was telling me the truth, that every- Oh parent had already agreed to this.
• 2:49
  Christie: Oh, Lisa.
• 2:49
  Christie: So I'm instantly like,"Oh, gosh, all these other parents are agreeing to this?" Man.
• 2:54
  Christie: And I'm the fuddy-duddy that's not going to agree to it, and, and just falling into line with the other parents because I thought,"Well, I, there must be something wrong with me if they're all like-" Oh,
• 3:05
  Cheryl: man
• 3:06
  Christie: now, when the story got told- and all the other parents got asked, we all figured out all the parents had not agreed- Right to that situation.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: And it's, they just were brilliant because she didn't come home alone with you- Right and sit on the couch- isolated and really talk with you.
• 3:24
  Christie: Yes.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: She had that whole audience, and it was all prepped, going,"Mom, quick, I have to have a decision right now."
• 3:30
  Christie: Right.
• 3:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:31
  Christie: And I'm sure the girls in, in presence were like-"Well, you call your mom first- Yeah, right and then I'll call my mom," and-
• 3:38
  Cheryl: It's like all the same thing And Christie Gunkel's doing it.
• 3:39
  Christie: Right.
• 3:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:40
  Christie: So All they needed was one yes- One yes and then the ball was rolling.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:44
  Cheryl: Well, I mean, that happens in my home.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: Daddy said it's okay with him- Sure if it's okay with you.
• 3:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:52
  Cheryl: But the nice thing, you can walk in the other room and say,"Did you say it was okay?" Right.
• 3:56
  Cheryl: "I said, go ask your mom." Right.
• 3:58
  Cheryl: And so,"Go ask your mom" became the narrative of,"Daddy says it's okay if it's okay with," you know?
• 4:03
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 4:04
  Cheryl: So that's a good one.
• 4:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:05
  Cheryl: That's a really good one.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: What about you, Joanne?
• 4:07
  Cheryl: Did you ever have
• 4:08
  Christie: this pressure?
• 4:08
  Christie: Oh, my good- Okay, I have so many, it's so hard to choose from.
• 4:11
  Christie: But I guess I'm gonna share something that is really embarrassing.
• 4:17
  Christie: It's a safe space here.
• 4:18
  Christie: But you know what?
• 4:18
  Christie: I'm just, my kids are getting older, and whatever, I'm just gonna put it out there.
• 4:22
  Christie: Maybe this will help someone feel really good about themselves- because when you hear how I, uh, let this affect me, you'll be like,"Wow." Um, okay, so when my kids were really little- We were keeping one of my good friend's, uh, daughters, or well, it's her only daughter, with us because They were moving and they had to go, like, scout out where- Mm-hmm to find a home and all that.
• 4:42
  Christie: So, she's an only child, and we had her in our home.
• 4:45
  Christie: She was about five years old, and my kids were really close to her age, too, right?
• 4:49
  Christie: But I have three.
• 4:50
  Christie: So things are a lot different in our house.
• 4:53
  Christie: With three children, at the time it was, like, three under six, right?
• 4:57
  Christie: Wow.
• 4:57
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:57
  Christie: There's lots of chaos.
• 4:58
  Christie: It, it's kinda crazy.
• 4:59
  Christie: We had just actually moved ourselves into a new home.
• 5:02
  Christie: It was kinda chaotic, but I was trying to help my friend out, right?
• 5:05
  Christie: So, um, this little sweet girl, you know, she's staying with us.
• 5:08
  Christie: Her life is very micromanaged.
• 5:10
  Christie: I mean, her mom- gave me a list of, okay, she eats, like, you know, for, a quarter of a scoop of- granola with- a half a cup of milk for breakfast.
• 5:19
  Christie: Like that kind of- And you're just glad everyone got- Right breakfast.
• 5:23
  Christie: Yes.
• 5:23
  Christie: I'm like,"You eat whatever." Uh-huh.
• 5:24
  Christie: And so anyways, we, we had her and it was fine.
• 5:28
  Christie: Um, but at one point she looks at me and she goes,"Why, why do your children disobey you?" Oh, Joanne.
• 5:36
  Christie: I...
• 5:36
  Christie: It rocked my world.
• 5:37
  Christie: Oh, my goodness.
• 5:38
  Christie: I thought, oh...
• 5:38
  Christie: I started to s- second guessing everything.
• 5:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:41
  Christie: Based on a five-year-old's observation On a five-year-old only child's observation.
• 5:45
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Christie: And oh, my goodness, it really, like, threw me off for a good month at least Oh, my word.
• 5:50
  Christie: And then I was like,"You're right, they do." And I, you know, I was g- Wow I need to crack down on my, my discipline Oh, my goodness.
• 5:57
  Christie: It's ridiculous, right?
• 5:59
  Christie: It could've been us.
• 6:00
  Christie: Yeah
• 6:00
  Cheryl: Well, and I have to ask, did they go to the after party the way they wanted to?
• 6:05
  Christie: No, no, no.
• 6:05
  Christie: A few phone calls- and we figured out- Yes all the moms were being duped.
• 6:10
  Christie: Oh.
• 6:10
  Christie: So No,
• 6:10
  Cheryl: man.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: I mean, there's unending the things I could say.
• 6:16
  Cheryl: I was in a very, um, conservative environment and culture, so clothing choices, there were just so many things, so much pressure all the time.
• 6:30
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: We just simply do not have enough time to talk about- Yes.
• 6:34
  Cheryl: No, yeah all the ways I evaluated other people and let their narrative become my narrative.
• 6:41
  Cheryl: Um, so all this is to say is it's hard.
• 6:45
  Christie: It is hard.
• 6:45
  Cheryl: Very hard.
• 6:45
  Cheryl: And we suffered under this, and I know every person parenting has to walk through this to get there.
• 6:52
  Cheryl: And the big problem is you don't start out an experienced grandmother with decades of parenting and wisdom when you're actually going through the, the trenches yourself.
• 7:03
  Christie: Right.
• 7:04
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:05
  Cheryl: So I wanted to ask this question
• 7:07
  Christie: mm-hmm.
• 7:08
  Cheryl: And that maybe this might be a beginning way to break this issue down is, is it fear-based?
• 7:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:16
  Christie: That's good.
• 7:17
  Cheryl: I think fear might be the
• 7:19
  Carol: foundational Color in all of this.
• 7:22
  Carol: True.
• 7:22
  Carol: That there's some kind of fear in any direction that we have concerning this.
• 7:28
  Carol: Being under someone's microscope or putting myself under the microscope, it's fear-
• 7:33
  Christie: Yeah
• 7:33
  Cheryl: of am I pleasing these people?
• 7:35
  Cheryl: And the second guessing, it's fear.
• 7:37
  Cheryl: And so I think the question to ask is, am I doing this out of fear or am I doing it out of my values?
• 7:46
  Christie: Right.
• 7:47
  Christie: That is so good.
• 7:48
  Christie: Well, and, and in order to answer that question- Mm-hmm it takes time to process with your spouse and yourself what your values are.
• 7:58
  Christie: What, what...
• 7:59
  Christie: You can have values, but which values are you going to filter your parenting decisions through?
• 8:04
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:04
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:04
  Christie: Um, some carry more weight than others in your life, right?
• 8:08
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:08
  Christie: That's right.
• 8:08
  Christie: I mean, you might value the environment or value...
• 8:11
  Christie: You know, there's lots of things you can value, but which ones are gonna be the core values that you base your parenting decisions off of?
• 8:18
  Cheryl: Okay, and so then think back o- on your two instances, how different it would be if you went,"Wait, I'm reacting."
• 8:26
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:27
  Cheryl: "Fear-based."
• 8:27
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:28
  Cheryl: What are my values in this?" And it, it doesn't clean it up, it doesn't work like um, a magic eraser on everything, but I think it brings clarity.
• 8:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Cheryl: And that's what I would say, is that fear brings muddiness into it and, and reactivity, and values can help us bring clarity.
• 8:48
  Christie: Right.
• 8:49
  Christie: That's right.
• 8:50
  Christie: I, I wish I would've done that, and I finally- Me too did get there.
• 8:53
  Christie: I, I think I could've gotten there a whole lot sooner if I had been proactive.
• 8:57
  Christie: You said reactive.
• 8:58
  Christie: You're right.
• 8:58
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:59
  Christie: If we can take some time to evaluate what are our values, what do we, where do we wanna start from, what is our solid foundation, if you will, um, then we're gonna be more proactive going into it, instead of reactive.
• 9:10
  Christie: Right.
• 9:11
  Christie: And it sticks a little bit of, um, ammunition in our pocket when we're faced, like your friend, with the family member's critique.
• 9:18
  Christie: You said they're a little more passive-aggressive, but- Yeah sometimes it might be a, a situation you have to give a response for.
• 9:25
  Christie: Right.
• 9:25
  Christie: Or not that you have to, but it could help you to be able to give a kind and gracious response,"This is what we value in our family.
• 9:32
  Christie: This is why we've chosen to do this," and have it clear, succinct, and move on- Mm-hmm and not have to dwell on it.
• 9:38
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 9:38
  Cheryl: And, and one of the things, because of those voices in my life, in parenting, were very loud.
• 9:44
  Cheryl: But what she's kind of referring to, Having family members critique out loud, You can show honor to the other people, because one of our core values is the value of other people-
• 9:56
  Christie: Yeah
• 9:56
  Cheryl: and to treat them with dignity and value, even when we disagree.
• 10:01
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:01
  Christie: That's
• 10:01
  Cheryl: true.
• 10:02
  Cheryl: And so that's the living out of our values, but if we don't stop the yeah.
• 10:07
  Cheryl: Reactivity.
• 10:07
  Cheryl: Reactivity, then I'm gonna be reacting instead of slowing down, thinking it through, and then coming back and responding in a way that, you know, actually lives out my values.
• 10:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:20
  Christie: Yeah, I'm thinking having that plumb line of, of a value system for your family, also it brings so much, um, consistency- Yeah and sustainability in your parenting.
• 10:32
  Christie: You're gonna get a million things right and a million things wrong, but if you have that same plumb line that you're coming back to every time, generally speaking, over the course of the 20 years, you're going to have some consistency in your decision-making.
• 10:46
  Cheryl: That's so true.
• 10:47
  Cheryl: And, I'm living it out before my children.
• 10:49
  Cheryl: Sometimes a narrative a lot in parenting, and it was w- so much around me in our years, is that you do something to your children.
• 10:59
  Christie: Mm.
• 10:59
  Cheryl: And you're doing things to your children and for your children instead of with them.
• 11:04
  Christie: Yes.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: And we have to remember what we live out is going to be the movie that's being played in our children's lives, uh, when we're not standing in front of them.
• 11:18
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:18
  Cheryl: And so if we, we go back to values like the value of other people even when we disagree, that that means, um, when that person who's critical and critiques and maybe says unkind things, when they're not around, am I snarky about that?
• 11:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:39
  Cheryl: Like,"Well, you know Grandpa," or- Right"You know Uncle so and so." Am I living out my values in how I treat the other people?
• 11:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:46
  Cheryl: Because that's the nice thing.
• 11:47
  Cheryl: I can disagree, yet show value.
• 11:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:51
  Christie: And that comes from confidence, you know?
• 11:53
  Christie: That gives confidence.
• 11:54
  Christie: And so, and I think it is far more important to have consistency, um, just also for your kids to be able to trust you.
• 12:01
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:02
  Christie: You know, when you're- Mm-hmm doing this, like, yo-yo parenting, like, of, they don't know what to expect depending on whose house we're at or what play date we're at- Yes what friends we're hanging out with.
• 12:11
  Christie: They- Or what mood you're in that day.
• 12:13
  Christie: Exactly.
• 12:13
  Christie: Or, yeah.
• 12:14
  Christie: If you have your values, your standards already in place, in mind, then they can know that they're gonna be able to expect the same thing no matter where they are.
• 12:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: absolutely.
• 12:25
  Christie: Right.
• 12:26
  Christie: And one thing I wish I would have done more often when my kids were young is verbalize those processes for them.
• 12:35
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:35
  Christie: Um, when you're having to think through how to respond, like you're saying, you know, don't bash the person, but you can walk through it verbally with them and say This is why we've chosen, this is what our family values, this is what, you know...
• 12:50
  Christie: Oh, let me think through that.
• 12:51
  Christie: Okay, these are some of the things that would go against what we want to prioritize in our family, so we're gonna say no to that.
• 12:59
  Christie: And even in that, we talk all the time here on TPP about things being caught rather than taught.
• 13:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:06
  Christie: And so they're watching you to make decisions based on your value system, and that's what they're gonna have to do for themselves someday.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: And one of the things in my parenting years, you said,"Well, what are our values?" Well, there were books and seminars and conferences, and there would be podcasts and things and ministries, and they would say,"Okay, here are the 30 values." And, and they were posted in some homes,"These are what we value." I can't make decisions based off 30 values.
• 13:35
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: So my encouragement would be is go,"What are our core values?" Mm-hmm.
• 13:41
  Cheryl: What are our top core values?
• 13:44
  Cheryl: And then maybe let's apply those.
• 13:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:46
  Cheryl: And that plays out in every area.
• 13:48
  Cheryl: I don't have to
• 13:49
  Carol: list, We don't hit, and we don't cuss, We pick up after ourselves.
• 13:53
  Carol: Right all of these things.
• 13:55
  Carol: Well, that's an application of a value.
• 13:57
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:58
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:58
  Cheryl: And so to me,
• 14:00
  Carol: a detailed list All that dilutes the quality of your real core- values.
• 14:08
  Carol: So that's what I would encourage people is don't have 15 core values.
• 14:12
  Carol: Let's get down to a few that kind of cover all the bases-
• 14:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 14:16
  Cheryl: and then start applying them, and maybe add one.
• 14:18
  Cheryl: Does that make sense?
• 14:19
  Christie: It does.
• 14:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Christie: No, that's so good, and then I think having those core values that aren't, you know, just so many that you have to keep track of will help you no matter what situation you're in.
• 14:28
  Christie: And like Christie, you, you were explaining, like, just kind of having clear communication.
• 14:32
  Christie: You know, we found ourselves in situations where, you know, like, we'd be going to grandma's house, and grandma doesn't like us to eat in her living room.
• 14:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:42
  Christie: That's not really a core value, but at our house, we can eat in our living room.
• 14:45
  Christie: So then you're able to communicate before you go to grandma's house- Mm uh, so we don't upset grandma, and we value her as a person'cause that's our core value.
• 14:54
  Christie: Hey, kids, let's not eat in her living room.
• 14:57
  Christie: Yeah, we wanna respect other people.
• 14:58
  Christie: Right.
• 14:59
  Christie: And, yeah.
• 14:59
  Christie: And then not get in a, a power struggle at grandma's house over that.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: And see, what I wanna do is speak into that from this end of parenting-
• 15:06
  Christie: Yes
• 15:07
  Cheryl: is the way you phrase it, not,"Well, you know, Grandma will get really angry if you go in there." Right.
• 15:12
  Cheryl: True.
• 15:12
  Cheryl: "Steer clear of her." Yes.
• 15:14
  Cheryl: Instead, like you say,
• 15:15
  Carol: this is important to her, And we want to love her well.
• 15:19
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:19
  Cheryl: s- recently you've been talking about how different it is for you now to be a grandmother- Mm-hmm and how you see different things and feel for that, for your children to honor you right.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: Whatever it is.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: Just again, to- Slow down and think about how you're treating the other people, even if they might be the ones that kind of wound you.
• 15:39
  Christie: Mm.
• 15:40
  Christie: That's
• 15:40
  Cheryl: good.
• 15:40
  Cheryl: You know, I'm just- Yeah hearing this, like you're saying- Yeah going to grandma's house, how you phrase that-
• 15:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 15:45
  Cheryl: really matters.
• 15:46
  Christie: Right.
• 15:47
  Christie: Very true.
• 15:48
  Christie: I love this because it's, um, parenting from the positive rather than the- Yeah negative.
• 15:54
  Christie: Yes.
• 15:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Christie: You know, it's saying, like the old saying, if you don't stand for something you'll you'll fall for anything.
• 15:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:59
  Christie: It's saying like,"No, this is who we do want to be.
• 16:02
  Christie: This is what we are about," not the list of rules like you were saying- Yes a minute ago of, like, do this, don't do this.
• 16:09
  Christie: It's just aiming towards a, um, a, a vision casting of, of who we want to help our kids grow into being.
• 16:19
  Cheryl: And one of the ways you could do it is bring your children into that conversation.
• 16:24
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: Okay, we know this is important to grandma, okay?
• 16:28
  Cheryl: And so what do y'all think about it?
• 16:31
  Cheryl: And then y'all having a family conversation instead of saying,"Remember, don't step into the living room." But instead, have a family conversation so the children are thinking, oh, that's right.
• 16:40
  Cheryl: The fact I don't take the popsicle onto the white sofa-
• 16:44
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 16:45
  Cheryl: is means I'm loving grandma better.
• 16:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Instead of you better steer clear.
• 16:48
  Cheryl: If you get any of that red-
• 16:50
  Christie: Right.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: Like you're saying.
• 16:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Cheryl: The positive rather than the negative, and then bringing them in that conversation- Mm.
• 16:56
  Cheryl: Yeah so they can talk with
• 16:56
  Christie: you.
• 16:56
  Christie: No, that's good.
• 16:57
  Cheryl: Another thought I had That would help with this, if we can manage not having our identity wrapped up in our parenting.
• 17:05
  Christie: Yes.
• 17:06
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 17:07
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 17:07
  Cheryl: Cause I would say probably, I would say fear and identity- Mm-hmm are the two culprits in my life.
• 17:13
  Cheryl: What about y'all?
• 17:15
  Christie: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:16
  Christie: I've, I've had that, uh, a lot.
• 17:18
  Christie: You know, looking back especially now that I've, you know- lived a little bit longer, I can look back and see that now so much more clearly.
• 17:24
  Christie: And, um, no, I just love the idea, like you said, of having those core values.
• 17:29
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 17:29
  Christie: And I think that just makes it so much easier to not let other people's perceived or real judgments affect you.
• 17:37
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:37
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:38
  Christie: Because if you're staying true to your core values or your standards, then, um, you're not as likely to cave, you know.
• 17:44
  Christie: And especially if your identity is removed from that too.
• 17:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Christie: Yeah, and I think, um, when your identity is so wrapped up on the pass or fail of parenting that we have in our minds, um, a person's critique carries too much weight- True because it's a, a report card.
• 18:05
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:05
  Christie: You know?
• 18:05
  Christie: And, and it tells me that I'm passing or failing at life and at being- Yeah a human, just based on- Yeah what my report card on my parenting is saying.
• 18:16
  Christie: Where instead, if I can separate my identity from how I'm doing as a parent-
• 18:23
  Cheryl: Or what people think
• 18:24
  Christie: you're doing or what people think I'm doing- Yeah as a parent and say,"I'm making a choice from my value system based on what my spouse and I have decided to do for our family."
• 18:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:36
  Christie: And at the end of this game, I might look back and say- Whoops I would've done it differently.
• 18:40
  Christie: But today, based on what I know at this point in life, this is what I'm choosing to do, but it has nothing to do with my identity and value and worth as a human being."
• 18:49
  Cheryl: Do you hear how healthy that is?
• 18:50
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:50
  Christie: Uh, it would've been so healthy, Cheryl.
• 18:52
  Christie: That's great.
• 18:53
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Christie: That's
• 18:53
  Cheryl: good stuff.
• 18:53
  Cheryl: And it has so much confidence- Mm-hmm without being pride.
• 18:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:58
  Cheryl: Because confidence- and humility are not, um, opposite.
• 19:03
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:03
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: And so true confidence is what you were describing.
• 19:08
  Cheryl: True confidence means that we're not getting our identity by our circumstances or the outcome or the fruit or all of that.
• 19:15
  Cheryl: We're trying to live out our values, and our confidence is different How amazing that would be, and you can't do it when you're reactive.
• 19:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:24
  Christie: Right.
• 19:24
  Cheryl: It's a process.
• 19:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: 'Cause you can't arrive at what you were just describing real quick,"Okay, here are the three fixes, and I'm gonna be there."
• 19:32
  Christie: Right.
• 19:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:32
  Christie: I mean, even at the back end of parenting, which I think it's safe to say I'm at the back end of parenting- with my oldest almost being 30 years old, I still am fighting for that mentality.
• 19:44
  Christie: Mm.
• 19:44
  Christie: Like, I still have to battle intentionally to say when one of my kids critiques how I handled something in their teenage years, you know?
• 19:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:54
  Christie: Then I'm, like, able to s- sit here and, and have that conversation myself and talk myself through that of- Good Okay, you're not defined as a parent by that one choice.
• 20:05
  Christie: You took the information you had.
• 20:07
  Christie: You made the best choice based on what you knew," and separate that.
• 20:11
  Christie: Um, it, it, it's just, it's empowering and, uh, helpful to do that for yourself.
• 20:18
  Cheryl: And, and even when you did make the wrong choices- Right.
• 20:22
  Christie: Right
• 20:22
  Cheryl: there are things with my children, and,"Mom, this really hurt me," and I've had some really hard discussions with some of my children.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: The way I handled things, y'all, it was my first time through life.
• 20:35
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:36
  Cheryl: It's, it's on-the-job practice- Yeah and on-the-job training, and- My children know I tried.
• 20:43
  Cheryl: I was offering my best, but I wasn't omniscient.
• 20:47
  Cheryl: Yeah I hadn't done all these, decades- Mm-hmm and then come back to do it.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: It was real time.
• 20:52
  Cheryl: And so, you know, we talked about humility, to say,"I'm really sorry."
• 20:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: I can see that, and then, but I can tell you, I was trying to do the best I knew how- Right.
• 21:03
  Cheryl: Yeah with the resources I had.
• 21:05
  Cheryl: I mean, let's just say the widowed parenting, there weren't 50 volumes of information out there on how to do widowed parenting.
• 21:13
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: And it was a free fall for me, there's so many ways I go,"Wow," you know?
• 21:18
  Cheryl: Even with all this, uh, perspective and years and input from my children, I, I don't know at the time if I would have been able to have made a different decision.
• 21:30
  Cheryl: I just was having to do it in real time.
• 21:33
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: So I, I want to bring compassion and understanding for parents to go,"Don't be hard on yourself." Yeah.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: Try to be wise and all of these things, but give yourself grace-
• 21:44
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:44
  Christie: Oh, yes
• 21:44
  Cheryl: because you're still trying to figure it out.
• 21:47
  Christie: Right.
• 21:47
  Christie: That's so true.
• 21:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Christie: One of my adult daughters commented on something we had done in their childhood, and she was asking me, she said,"What, what made you guys make that decision?" And I said,"Oh, you know, I had heard someone talking about it and, and that just felt like a good move." And she's like,"Well, did you wonder at the time if it was?" And I was like-"Yes, I did." You know, when she said that, I don't think she understood how much I wondered- Yeah at the time- No if that was a good move.
• 22:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:20
  Christie: And I- Yeah I just think that open communication- Yeah That is good with our kids as they age, and, and if you're on the back end, too- Yeah and you're, you're the parent talking to the adult kid, just having, like you said, Cheryl, that, that humility and grace for yourself, which are hand in hand and can't be separated, of, of just laughing at- Yeah the things you might have gotten wrong and, and not flippantly.
• 22:42
  Christie: No, not- I mean, taking it seriously that it- Yeah did affect your children.
• 22:45
  Christie: But, um, holding things loosely is helpful.
• 22:49
  Christie: Well, and then d- just some discernment with that humility, too, to, like- If you're facing some sort of criticism, like, not, not being afraid to evaluate, well, maybe i- is this the right decision?
• 23:01
  Christie: Right.
• 23:01
  Christie: And having the humility to, you know, uh, seek out wisdom from someone- Yes who may be a couple steps ahead of you, or a family member.
• 23:09
  Christie: Like, I'm thinking about my own mom.
• 23:11
  Christie: Like, we, we had a complicated relationship, but, um, she, she made some really good decisions- Mm and she gave me some really good advice, you know?
• 23:20
  Christie: And so just taking the good, um, and using, you know, wisdom to try to decide and maybe leaving the rest, you know?
• 23:27
  Christie: Right.
• 23:28
  Christie: That is a really good point, because as much as we're talking about choosing your own values and making your own decisions for your family, there is a place to ask, who gets to speak into my parenting- Yes and who doesn't?
• 23:41
  Christie: Yes.
• 23:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Christie: And I know that there were areas that I had just put my roots in- Yeah on this value, and I was not gonna budge, and I had decided this is the best thing, and that was pride.
• 23:54
  Christie: You know- Mm I didn't want anybody to speak in on that.
• 23:56
  Christie: I had just- Mm.
• 23:57
  Christie: Yeah like buckled down, this is how we were doing things, and looking back, I wish I w- I would have listened to more voices and, and maybe had somebody more experienced to speak into those things.
• 24:08
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Cheryl: And I would say look for wise voices.
• 24:10
  Christie: Yes.
• 24:11
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:11
  Cheryl: You can pick and choose from people- Yeah but wise voices.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: Um, the three of us before we started recording, we were sitting in here bouncing real life off of each other- Mm.
• 24:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm and listening and saying,"I want you all in my life so we can share."
• 24:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:26
  Cheryl: And you have proven by what I see in your lives to be wise, reasoned, thought-out voices for me to listen to.
• 24:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:35
  Cheryl: And just because I listen to doesn't mean I have to take all of it, but I really want that so that...
• 24:41
  Cheryl: I cannot overemphasize how much I wish I'd had all of that in my life- Mm-hmm because I didn't, I sought it, but I didn't have a lot of it, and then the other thing is boundaries.
• 24:54
  Christie: Mm.
• 24:55
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Cheryl: Because I go back to, uh, family members or anyone else speaking into my life- there's a place to draw a boundary True um, I can still love you, but I'm drawing this boundary, and actually I've had- various parents come to me asking my input on something, and some of it was, what do we do about grandparents in this case, that are speaking certain ways and acting certain ways into their lives and in the children and criticizing the parents or saying a different narrative to the grandchildren?
• 25:30
  Cheryl: Uh, not a fully immoral one, but I'm just talking about it- Mm-hmm in a way that the parents didn't want that.
• 25:37
  Cheryl: And so my answer was,"You're gonna have to have a boundary conversation."
• 25:40
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 25:41
  Cheryl: Or that they were allowing, Maybe some television programs or whatever it was, and I said,"This is a place for boundary."
• 25:48
  Christie: Mm.
• 25:48
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:48
  Cheryl: But what they had to do, we had to talk about come, don't be reactive-
• 25:52
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 25:52
  Cheryl: and get yourself ready, and then without the children or anything else around, sit down and have a conversation, and then you may have to draw some boundaries.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: And in one case, her parents got really hurt- Mm and they cut them off for a while, and didn't talk to them- because see, they were defensive.
• 26:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 26:12
  Christie: Hurt
• 26:12
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: And her parents' identity was all wrapped up in it, but she'd done the right thing, and she, had handled it really well, and then because of the relationship, eventually they came around.
• 26:24
  Cheryl: But there are places where boundaries are important and necessary to keep it healthy, and I would encourage, um, our listeners, if it's necessary, have those difficult boundary conversations, uh, done the right way.
• 26:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Christie: That's really good advice.
• 26:42
  Christie: I love that.
• 26:43
  Cheryl: Y'all, you know, we come back to the original question of your friend and, and that difficulty of parenting under a microscope.
• 26:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:51
  Cheryl: Or all the different voices speaking in and trying to please all those voices- Yeah or trying to sort through all the voices, and, we've laid out it's messy.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: It's not clear.
• 27:03
  Cheryl: And we've tried to offer maybe some ideas to walk through it, and I would just- Bring a healthiness to our listening audience that I didn't have
• 27:13
  Christie: Hmm.
• 27:14
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:14
  Cheryl: Yeah I believe this going back to your values and separating your identity from it is the wisest way to handle it-
• 27:23
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 27:24
  Cheryl: when you have- Yeah absolutely no idea what you're doing.
• 27:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:27
  Christie: Yes, that's true.
• 27:28
  Christie: And just, I think, like we talk about so often, just fighting for a relationship- Yes walking in humility and grace to extend, as much love as you can to the other person, um, while still standing firm to advocate for your child and, and walk in your own value system as a parent.
• 27:46
  Christie: No, that's great.
• 27:47
  Christie: No, I was just gonna throw in just, you know, taking some time.
• 27:51
  Christie: I know it's hard when your kids are little and you're super tired and just one more thing to think about.
• 27:55
  Christie: Oh, yes.
• 27:55
  Christie: But just having some, uh, intentionality and a proactive approach of- Yes kind of, you know, figuring out what it, where your consistency is going to be for your kids- Mm-hmm so that you're not, you know, just kinda caving to anyone's judgment- Yes and having that confidence.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: Wow,
• 28:12
  Christie: so good.
• 28:13
  Cheryl: Okay, we gotta have a lot more of these conversations.
• 28:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:15
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Cheryl: This is so good.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: Thank y'all.
• 28:17
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, hang in there.
• 28:19
  Cheryl: Keep loving.
• 28:20
  Cheryl: Keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: There will always be another opinion, another article, another conversation, another person who would have done it differently.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: That never really goes away.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: The question isn't whether those voices exist, it's whether they get to decide who you become as a parent.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: You can always reach us at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: We'll see you again next time.