Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Robert Breedlove | Bitcoin is Time | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Robert Breedlove | Bitcoin is Time | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:05
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of
0:08
Simply Bitcoin IRL. Today's very special guest been
0:11
looking forward to this conversation for a while now
0:15
Robert Breedlove. But before we jump in, I want to
0:18
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All right? No more delay, mr.
0:52
Breedlove. How you doing?
0:53
These days? I'm good.
0:56
Thank you for having me. I'm just finishing up, eating a
0:59
little something here. It's all good.
1:00
All rubbed up. Do do your thing.
1:04
I understand my schedule has been pretty pretty crazy these
1:08
days running to YouTube channels.
1:12
Running the swan Channel and running the simply channels has
1:15
been absolutely pretty, pretty crazy.
1:19
I understand anyways, been thinking about the first
1:23
question to ask you for a while now, and I think the most
1:26
appropriate for you Robert is after the years that you've been
1:31
doing this, you know, after the The famous sailor series that
1:36
you know, people received extremely well, I'm going to ask
1:39
you what is money. I'd be lying if I didn't say.
1:46
I saw that question coming. I this is such a weird question
1:54
actually and one of the Latest things that I've learned.
2:02
And this is we release an episode of recently, that was
2:06
titled the most important question in the world and what
2:09
it was. Was essentially a composite of
2:13
Prior guest on the what is money show?
2:16
Answering the question, what is money?
2:19
And my editor did a great job of slicing these together.
2:22
And one of my takeaways from that particular episode We've
2:29
done. We did.
2:30
We release one of these. We release a second.
2:32
One. I think we've got two or three
2:34
more in in the backlog. So we have like four to five
2:39
hours that we've accumulated of guests answering that question.
2:42
What is money over are 300 some odd episodes that we've released
2:47
now? So, it's been very interesting
2:50
but my takeaway from that particular composite episode was
2:54
that it seemed to be Asking the question, what is money?
2:59
Seemed to be a kind of a psychological mirror, perhaps,
3:04
and that the way that guest answer, the question is somewhat
3:10
telling of their own character. Now, this is a hypothesis.
3:14
I'm not saying this is a conclusive fact, it's just an
3:17
observation I made. After we released it, listen to
3:20
that episode. And for instance would be like,
3:24
you know, if you listen to The Sailor series he'll describe
3:30
money as the highest energy that humans can Channel.
3:35
Or I think he also calls it something like an amalgam of all
3:39
the powers that humans can possibly harness, right?
3:42
So you can use money for instance, to acquire or Channel
3:49
kinetic energy. Chemical energy, gravitational
3:52
energy thermal energy, etc, etc. Money's like this meta.
3:57
Structure, that lets you tap into really anything that humans
4:02
are capable of harnessing. And so his answer to that
4:08
question. It.
4:10
Kind of tells you something about Sailors, perhaps tells you
4:14
something about Sailors actual psychology and that.
4:16
Well, he's a, he's a powerful guys and effective entrepreneur.
4:20
He's a, he's a historian, right? He thought deeply about these
4:23
topics for clearly many years. He's A widely read and he's, you
4:30
know, focused a lot of his reading on like ancient Roman
4:33
history and other very successful entrepreneurs, like
4:37
Carnegie. And, you know, the oil tycoon
4:41
still tycoons etc, etc. So it's like his perspective on
4:45
money. Not only is, it is it telling
4:48
about kind of the nature and structure, and ontology of money
4:52
itself. But it's also revealing
4:55
something about the actual individual answering the
4:58
question too and then if you go forward one series to the booth
5:02
series, you know, Jeff Booth will give you this very Academic
5:11
description of how money works and how it flows between people.
5:15
But then he also takes a step back and say something like to
5:18
the effect of money doesn't really matter.
5:20
You know, it's more about love and relationships and belonging
5:23
and so that seems to be kind of telling about how how he
5:26
individually chooses to lead his life.
5:30
And I don't know, I'm not I'm not may be answering your
5:34
question, what is money per se? But it's just the thing I've
5:36
been thinking about recently is that it asking that particular
5:40
question had this very unexpected result that just
5:45
occurred to me. Like I said, when we release
5:47
this thing a couple of weeks ago, that it seems to be serving
5:51
as a psychological mirror of sorts.
5:55
That that in which you see the subtle or perhaps deeper
6:01
character of the individual answering the question
6:04
reflected. And that's been, I don't know
6:09
like it was just it just caught me off guard.
6:10
So like every time I think I feel so fortunate to have
6:14
launched this show and then now the whole world you know you got
6:18
breed a Leo on national TV saying the defining question is
6:23
what is money and then you've got you Musk making these big
6:26
appearances saying, you know, what is money?
6:28
It's like, it seems to be like it's quickly becoming the
6:32
defining question of our era and maybe in 50 years time or
6:37
something like that, we'll look back on it as such.
6:42
So I feel very fortunate to have kind of struck Gold digital
6:47
goals, perhaps or posed. A question.
6:51
That's very concordant with the current zeitgeist.
6:55
I already had that gratitude and appreciation in place but now
6:58
again watching that composite episode.
7:00
Like it blew my mind. Again, I was like, oh my
7:02
goodness. Wow, you're actually seeing
7:03
something else about, there's a conversation, beneath the
7:07
conversation, right? There's a response beneath the
7:10
response to the question and I found that to be fascinating and
7:17
again, I call it a psychological mirror.
7:19
I don't know. This is like a term that I've
7:21
put to this thing that I'm trying to describe.
7:25
But it's interesting to me again that it's most of the answers we
7:29
have for money, tend to have this reflective property, you
7:33
know it you know, money is not wealth, but it reflects wealth
7:42
prices or is like a prices or a reflection on the consequences
7:48
of Human Action and relation to Capital and You know, I think
7:53
this speaks to the relationship between money and human
7:57
rationality that human rationality is this this
8:00
self-reflective faculty that we have and money somehow enables
8:07
or extends that that we were actually able to extend human
8:10
rationality into the material domain in a very real way.
8:15
So yeah, it's just a very, very interesting question and I'm
8:21
just grateful to have have have it as the namesake of the show
8:25
and it keeps yielding more and more insights to me.
8:29
So, yeah. And it's interesting because I
8:33
did notice when Ilan answered that question about and what was
8:39
striking to me, was his response, which was basically
8:44
along the lines of their needs to be inflation, right?
8:47
So you could tell that he hasn't fully taken the orange pill, you
8:51
know? Then the ray dalio clip, very
8:56
familiar with it as well, but I think, what was fascinating to
8:59
me about what you just said about, is the way that you look
9:02
at money is really a reflection on yourself and I think that
9:06
people really underestimate how vital money is in a society,
9:11
write it, you know, it's the Hottentot said it best, right?
9:13
It's half of every transaction in the world, right?
9:18
And if that base layers, fundamentally corrupted, or it's
9:21
broken, right? I think there's so many
9:24
Downstream effects so that so many so many consequences to
9:29
that that people have no idea what the root cause of our.
9:33
But I'm going to double back. I'm going to go back to the
9:35
original question because I'm very curious.
9:37
Robert, what is money to you specifically as an individual?
9:42
Well, that's a great. Great question.
9:44
And now that I've made that meta step talking about the
9:47
psychological mirror, I'm extra cognizant of my answer.
9:51
But I you know, when I originally this is before
9:57
launching the podcast, I'd always thought about money as
10:00
time, you know, and this is something that I I incorporated
10:04
into Masters and slaves of money in particular that I was
10:10
looking. I think the opening line and
10:11
that piece is like, money is a tool for treating human time.
10:15
So an ingredient to basically everything of value in the
10:20
global economy is human time. You could also call it human
10:25
effort or human energy, or human attention, perhaps.
10:29
But the common denominator that I always focus on was just time
10:34
itself. And I guess the reason I did
10:37
that was because even in the term like the term economize,
10:42
right? It means to to accomplish the
10:45
same or greater. But with less effort the same or
10:49
less effort, right? You're actually increasing
10:51
output per unit of input. And so, what we're doing when we
10:57
trade with one, another is allowing each of us to
11:03
specialize in a very fine stage of a production process and then
11:09
Interlink ourselves together through trade such that.
11:13
The thing that we ultimately, make is something that none of
11:16
us could ever make individually. We get these incredible
11:20
Innovations and there's a great essay on this titled eye pencil.
11:26
If you've never read it, it's beautifully poetic describing
11:31
Essentially, how no one, no one, no one individual on Earth can
11:34
construct a pencil that it is this emergent good from, you
11:40
know, the wood is from this continent.
11:42
The lettuce from that continent, the metals from here, and it
11:45
takes all of these people engaged in a collaborative
11:49
effort to create something as simple as a pencil.
11:54
And so I am I still You know, sailor Blue.
11:59
I'm on, we started talking about money as energy because it was
12:01
just like it was like, oh, of course it's energy.
12:03
I'd never thought about it that way, but my original view on it
12:08
had always been that it's more time than energy But ultimately
12:15
I guess the deeper I've gotten down this Rabbit Hole.
12:17
The one thing I keep coming to is the insufficiency or
12:23
inadequacy of language itself There is that?
12:31
I had a Sky shirt, a quote, from Ray Kurzweil on the show who
12:37
said that language is a very thin pipe through which to
12:42
describe something as complex as consciousness.
12:47
And I feel that really landed with me.
12:53
We're all human beings were all living in this complex, fluid
13:01
fully interconnected reality, right?
13:05
It's a Continuum. Alright, the world, Continuum.
13:08
Everything affects everything else.
13:09
Everything touches everything else either directly or
13:11
indirectly. It's all energy.
13:15
It's all Liquid something like that and language with language,
13:21
we're slicing it in, dicing it right into little discrete data
13:26
packets such that we can talk about it.
13:29
We can think about it, we can reflect upon it.
13:31
And I think maybe that question. What is money is like, it's
13:39
pointing at that, right? It's like we call money.
13:42
That's we call Money the language of value.
13:44
So clearly it's a very its linguistic sort of in its nature
13:48
in that it allows us to communicate about, you know, the
13:52
consequences of Human Action. One way I've thought of framing
13:59
this that was useful. For me was if words are the
14:04
media of exchange of human Conception.
14:12
Then money is the media of exchange Of Human Action.
14:17
Whereas like baby, even your five senses are the media of
14:20
exchange of human perception, right?
14:22
We're actually perceiving the world with our five senses, we
14:26
then convert that and wrap it into these little discrete data,
14:29
packets called words to develop conceptions from that and
14:34
somewhere between their perception.
14:36
And conception, we get this emergent socio-economic
14:40
phenomenon called money, that's the medium of exchange Of Human
14:44
Action, right? So it's actually it's a very
14:47
high signal communication device, and somehow, Supersedes
14:55
language or is very hard to describe obviously, which again,
15:00
kind of explains why so many people have so many different
15:03
answers. And perhaps also explains why it
15:08
is It functions as a psychological mirror because if
15:12
it is that complex it's like it can be answered in a lot of
15:15
different ways and you attempt to answer it.
15:19
It's kind of like in quantum physics.
15:21
Right? Where the Observer participates
15:24
with the observation. If you ever heard of the eyes of
15:26
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, the act of
15:30
observation actually changes. The thing that you're observing,
15:33
so that you can never know, simultaneously, the exact
15:37
position and trajectory of a particle.
15:39
You can know one or the other but you can't know both with.
15:44
It's like, it's a again. It's a Continuum right.
15:47
The more, you know, the trajectory, the less, you know,
15:48
the position and vice versa. So something about What is
15:53
money? It's like, what is the word?
15:55
What is language? And obviously, that's a very
15:58
deep question to when you look at something like the biblical
16:02
Corpus, right? The opening, and the beginning
16:05
was the word and the Word was God, and the Word was with God,
16:08
like, it's, there's something very essential about this
16:12
intermediate disintermediation. It's intermediating function.
16:19
I guess you would say that both language and money performs.
16:23
And it is exceedingly difficult to describe, but also
16:27
exceedingly important. So, I again not sure if I
16:32
answered your question at all there, but each woman around you
16:35
totally did and you said, put a tremendous amount of signal in
16:39
there and the two concepts right to you specifically as an
16:44
individual money is time I'm in that camp as well to sailor
16:51
money's energy, right? And then the last bit that you
16:56
said which I think is really interesting.
17:00
Is the fact that I think you nailed this and perhaps you, you
17:06
you said it on a subconscious level which is I think human
17:09
beings. I think the necessity of having
17:13
a type of using money is necessary to The Human
17:19
Experience, I think. And if you look at history
17:21
right, even if you go back to the very very you know,
17:25
prehistoric era there was still bartering, they were still trade
17:29
and they're the Were still a form of money, and I think that
17:32
you couldn't get away from that. And I think, that really, since
17:35
the Advent of the internet, really sends, you know, if you
17:39
believe the theory from the sovereign individual, the rise
17:44
of information, Technologies, you know, CPUs right?
17:48
That made all the made Bitcoin itself possible.
17:52
And now, we are moving into the next iteration of what money is
17:56
and what it could be. But before I go down that rabbit
18:00
hole, Whole what I want to ask you Robert because I know you've
18:02
spent a tremendous amount of time focusing on this on your
18:05
show is what happens when the money's broken.
18:10
Right? And you know bitcoiners make a
18:12
meme of it and they say time theft.
18:14
Hmm what happens when the money is broken?
18:17
What what are the consequences of broken money to a society?
18:25
yeah, you know, another Frame. That's useful for.
18:32
Comparing, such disparate things as an individual and an economy,
18:39
right? That the individuals, much more
18:42
concrete, right? Where we know, we have a lot of
18:45
lived experience with the individual and economy is
18:48
something much more abstract, right?
18:50
We engage in it and we participate in it.
18:52
But you don't see an economy right?
18:55
In any concrete sense. But what they both are in a in a
19:01
turn secular parlance is that they're both complex adaptive
19:05
systems. So what are they doing there?
19:10
You know, both the individual and the economy are trying to
19:14
model the world. They're trying to adapt to it,
19:20
right? So to overcome obstacles and
19:22
problems and and whatnot and a key process to that end is
19:32
Station right? Like for instance, if you are a
19:36
human trying to adapt to your environment while it's pretty
19:39
important that you have eyesight and good.
19:41
Hearing, you know, if you're if you're in the middle of the
19:46
savanna or the jungle and you're blind right?
19:49
You know you're going to get Nature's natural selection is
19:52
going to have its way with you. So your communication systems as
19:55
an individual complex adaptive system, they're not functioning
19:59
well, any of your five senses, but Obviously something like
20:03
eyesight would be more important than maybe taste.
20:06
That's going to, although tastes can also be important right?
20:09
To taste. If something is poisonous or not
20:13
that's going to inhibit you that's going to inhibit your
20:16
survival ability. And so when we look at the
20:21
complex adaptive system of an economy, when you start screwing
20:25
with the money, right? That is the communicate.
20:28
That is the nervous system of the economic.
20:32
Organism that were all participating in that.
20:34
We're all cellular participants in to use a biological analogy
20:42
when you start screwing with that Communications Network.
20:46
Well then that complex adaptive system loses its ability to
20:50
perceive the world and model the world and adapt to the world.
20:54
And so it just throws the whole thing into disarray and really
20:58
jeopardizes. Its survivability just like the
21:01
guy. I'm in the jungle that's blind
21:03
right? Like his inability to to the
21:09
media of exchange of human perception via his eyes if
21:12
that's not working, then he's unlikely to live like his
21:16
chances of survival plummet. Just like if we screw up the
21:20
money, right? If we add noise to the
21:23
communication network of money, that's intended to be That in an
21:27
Ideal World and a Bitcoin world would just be pure signal,
21:30
right? All price changes, would be
21:33
reflections of shifts in supplies of capital were demand
21:38
for for capital or Goods in this in a world where money is being
21:43
debased and monopolize and corrupted etcetera, those price
21:47
changes are full of noise. You don't know what it is,
21:50
right? It's like it could be a new
21:52
policy could be, you know, could be Currency counterfeiting could
21:58
be. This could be that there's just
22:00
it's a it's the destruction of the Adaptive mechanism the
22:07
mechanism by which the global economy adapts to reality is
22:11
broken. When we break the money, just
22:14
like the mechanism by which the individual adapts to his
22:19
environment is broken when when you blind him or take away one
22:23
of his other key senses. So I guess you could maybe
22:29
distill it down to just the throughput of mation is that
22:33
when information is not flowing, And this is kind of a weird
22:38
actually think information. What you use information as if
22:41
it's a noun, right? Like is this thing that moves
22:43
around but it's really just the pattern of one thing influencing
22:47
the pattern of another thing. That's all I could think of it
22:50
more as a verb that The movements of one thing put the
22:57
other thing that it's connected to into a new formation.
23:01
So it's again, we're back to this continuous fluid reality,
23:05
where everything is connected to everything else.
23:08
And information is just the, the sequential rearrangement of all
23:13
these things interacting. When you inhibit that, then you
23:19
start to accrue Miss Fitness, right?
23:22
Like the Is not adapting to changes in reality.
23:26
And so the system in reality or very close, when it's adapting,
23:30
well, well they start to diverge right, if the money is broken or
23:33
you're blind and and that Divergence is a representation
23:38
of risk, essentially and it eventually that risk is realized
23:43
and I think this kind of frames up things like the Austrian
23:47
business cycle Theory or once you start debasing the currency,
23:51
you get exacerbated, economic booms and bust until one of two
23:56
things happens either the currency hyper inflates or they
24:00
stop printing money. And you get this deflationary
24:03
snap back to reality. And, of course, or Klee
24:07
typically it culminates in hyperinflation because the
24:10
central bank that's debasing, the currency has both the profit
24:14
motive. motive and the precedent to do that, so it You undermined
24:24
the Adaptive capacity of the species, when you screw with the
24:29
money, just like you undermine the Adaptive capacity of an
24:33
individual when you blind them. So I don't, it takes away the
24:40
handful, it takes away the correction mechanism, right?
24:43
Yeah, exactly. The feedback loops are broken,
24:46
correct. And then you have these
24:47
Frankenstein political ideologies.
24:51
Businesses economic systems that normally would not be viable
24:58
under a sound money standard that just pop up.
25:06
And they start to become, I mean, and we're seeing this,
25:09
we're living through a, some people call it the fourth
25:10
turning. If you were, if you were to
25:12
believe in that theory, but we're living through this era of
25:18
what the consequence of broken money.
25:22
What what the consequence of living under a broken money
25:25
system for decades. And I think we're reaching the
25:27
culmination of that. I think we're living through it
25:30
right now. Some people call it the clown
25:31
world. Yeah.
25:33
But you know from from my Perspective.
25:37
Robert, the these are these are scary times and you know we have
25:42
a more geopolitically Focus show our daily live show but we're we
25:48
see it now is really what I see the the battle to come.
25:53
And the next 5-10 years is really it's going to be Bitcoin
25:59
or Central Bank. Digital currencies, it's clear
26:01
as day. That nation-states all around
26:04
the world. This is there.
26:05
This is their future. Through.
26:06
This is what they believe. The future of money is writer
26:10
Central Bank, digital currencies, and, and to kind of
26:13
tied into what you were saying about removing that correction
26:16
mechanism, I feel like Central Bank.
26:18
Digital currencies is, just it's going to throw.
26:21
It's going to, it's going to throw gasoline on that, right?
26:23
It's going to make it a hundred times worse.
26:27
So does that worry you at all? Does that.
26:28
Does that what's your take on? On the Central Bank?
26:32
Digital currency future that I'll speak.
26:36
At least from a u.s. Centric view, the B
26:38
Administration that's there, you know, it's been it's clear as
26:42
day. If you look at the presidential
26:45
a quarter of presidential quarterly economic report, they
26:48
dedicated 20 pages. And the first, the first
26:52
paragraph of those 20 Pages basically was making the case as
26:56
to why central banks are necessary.
26:58
Why you need a state for a currency?
27:02
And why Central Bank? Digital currencies are a good
27:04
thing. So, What is this fight?
27:07
Look like to you. It is you know the theory of the
27:10
sovereign individual going to come true where bitcoiners are
27:13
just going to flee, they're just going to leave perhaps, leave
27:16
the state's maybe go to countries like I'll Salvador.
27:19
This is is this something that you think about as a Bitcoin?
27:22
ER Yes. Think about it a lot and what
27:29
many people call Clown world and what many people mistakenly call
27:36
late-stage capitalism I think is in truth late-stage Central
27:42
Banking, it's not surprising whatsoever that we have
27:48
progressed from A country, again, u.s.
27:53
Centric perspective here a country, which respected life,
27:59
liberty, and property. And we had a tremendous amount
28:01
of economic success. But once we had the
28:04
implementation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, the trajectory
28:09
has started to change, right? We've become steadily less free
28:13
over time. All right, this is the land of
28:17
the free and the home of the brave is the national anthem
28:19
says, but once you Put that institution that
28:24
anti-capitalistic, anti-human freedom institution, at the
28:28
heart of the US economy, it starts to regress.
28:33
And, you know, if we look at Communism, communism, being the
28:39
abolition of private property, right?
28:41
That's what marks that was the whole idea from each, according
28:44
to their ability to each, according to their need.
28:46
There are no Property Owners, the state owns everything Doles,
28:50
it out arbitrarily and, you know, in this In a way that is
28:57
beneficial for people, right? According to their need, as he
29:00
said, we've seen that, that fails catastrophically in every
29:06
conceivable way. We also have socialism, which is
29:11
the institutionalized policy of aggression against private
29:13
property, so not the abolition, right?
29:16
If communism is at this extreme end of no private property
29:19
whatsoever, socialism is kind of the spectrum between where your
29:25
your aggressing against. It more or less depending on
29:27
how, how severely you're taxing the population or how rapidly
29:32
your debasing, the currency both of which function as the theft
29:38
of purchasing power you're stealing from you're violating
29:42
the property of productive Market, actors or stealing from
29:45
them. And then at the opposite end of
29:47
the spectrum from communism is capitalism in a true sense which
29:52
is the institutionalized policy of respect for private property.
29:56
And in contractual agreement between property owners. it's
30:02
not surprising to me at all that when you install a central bank,
30:07
which derives all of its revenues from seigniorage or
30:13
expansion of the money supply, it sells the new currency units
30:18
at a market rate that they produce at a below market rate,
30:22
that that Delta being there, their profit, That's theft,
30:30
right? You're now violating the private
30:32
property of Savers people that are depending on the currency as
30:37
a mode of savings are now having their property rights violated
30:41
by the central bank, and it's a very slippery slope.
30:45
Right. Once you start printing the
30:47
money, you've you now, increase the misallocation of capital
30:52
such that the net. The next bust is even more
30:56
painful. There's more liabilities in the
30:58
sea Some the default. So the next round of monetary
31:02
printing, according to the Keynesian philosophy is, you
31:05
have to print money to cover all of that.
31:07
So, it's exponentially more debasement of the currency and
31:12
theft of purchasing power from productive Market actors, which
31:15
is an exponential increase in the violation of private
31:19
property. So you start moving along that
31:20
Spectrum, right? You're moving away from
31:23
capitalism further into socialism in that, private
31:26
property is being aggressive. Against more rapidly, more
31:30
aggressively, more assiduously, whatever you want to say, and
31:34
the endgame, right? The endgame of that aggression
31:38
against private property, is the abolition of private property.
31:41
So we, it's no surprise to me whatsoever that the world is
31:45
moving along the Spectrum away from capitalism and toward
31:49
communism in lockstep with how rapidly we debase the currency.
31:56
Or currency supplies around the world, I don't know, it's
32:02
painfully obvious. If you study money and you study
32:05
the history of states and where they end up but People just
32:10
don't understand this, right? These isms are thrown around
32:15
again back to the insufficiency of language.
32:16
Like, there's not a consensus on what communism is what socialism
32:20
is, where capitalism is and hiding beneath all of that.
32:25
Ignorance, is this? This like sad degeneration of
32:31
the world and it's very self-defeating, you know, even
32:35
even the shareholders of central banks that benefit from this
32:38
scheme, they're undermining the market process itself in the
32:42
long run. So all of the wealth that they
32:44
accumulate comes at the expense of restricting, the potential of
32:51
wealth creation and the broader market, and the potential for
32:54
Innovation the potential for human flourishing.
32:56
So I'm Reminded here of the way rothbard put it and I basically
33:03
paraphrase. He said that you know the state
33:06
is a robber baron that will just plunder its victims until
33:11
there's nothing left to plunder and then once once it's
33:16
plundered everything, there was the plunder, it just dies,
33:18
right? It's killed its own food source,
33:21
it's like a parasite that kills the host.
33:24
So yeah, it's he's kind of a An unfortunate State of Affairs.
33:33
But you know, thank God for Bitcoin because I don't know
33:39
what we would do in the face of this Rising tide of global
33:43
communism. If it were not for Bitcoin,
33:48
Yeah. And you know, I'm really glad
33:50
that that, that you brought that up and it's something that I've
33:55
spent a lot of time thinking about right, which is Unless you
34:01
do something kinetic, like a kinetic, like, you know,
34:04
revolutions bringing up, you know, Call to Arms.
34:09
Bitcoin really defunds this completely.
34:12
It really stops in his tracks and I would even go on to say
34:17
that there are certain political ideologies that would not be
34:21
possible under your put a Bitcoin standard if you remove
34:25
the wealth redistribution mechanism, putting taxation
34:28
aside but the wealth redistribution mechanism of
34:32
inflation and if you take that away, Can't really buy your
34:39
voters so to speak. Can't really be offering these
34:42
things because the only way to offer these things is through
34:45
raising taxes via direct taxation, direct taxation,
34:49
meaning you become very pop unpopular with your
34:53
constituents, right? But if you remove that element
34:56
all together, right? And you go on a Bitcoin
34:59
standard, then I would say that there's a lot of very popular
35:05
political ideologies, Without getting into any specifics, that
35:09
would not be economically. They wouldn't they wouldn't be
35:12
viable, they would just disappear.
35:15
And then what I just said leads me to the next thing is I
35:19
suspect They're going to fight tooth, they're going to fight
35:24
Bitcoin tooth and nail because it's a matter of survival.
35:28
It's a matter of it's their system, right?
35:32
Or it's Bitcoin, right? And I and Robert, I think we're
35:35
already seeing this. We're already seeing this fight
35:38
back, right? And and of course, it's under
35:41
the guise of many things, right? You know, the moral virtues, you
35:45
know, But does that worry you at all?
35:49
Or are you from the? Are you coming from the camp of
35:53
the better flag? Theory of you know Bitcoins just
35:56
Bitcoins like water. It's just going to go flow to
35:58
where its treated best and bitcoiners are going to follow
36:00
suit. Or do or gets to a point where
36:05
do we have to stand our ground right?
36:07
Where it's like, look, you know, we at least have to fight, you
36:12
know, we at least have to fight so that America doesn't go down
36:15
that path because if America does go down that path and it
36:18
sure does look like it is going down that path.
36:21
It is going to make the the lives of bitcoiners.
36:24
The people that individuals that are choosing to opt out of that
36:28
said, system, it can make their lives a living hell or is this
36:32
the inevitable collapse Lapse of an Empire like we've seen
36:35
throughout history. Well, I guess the beautiful
36:41
thing about Bitcoin, you can only use that metaphor.
36:44
All right, stand our ground. It's a, it's a battle metaphor.
36:48
All right. Someone's attacking you.
36:49
And rather than retreating you stand your ground and fight.
36:54
But what we're talking about with Bitcoin is Just a, it's a
36:59
radically new incentive system. I or you have the option that
37:02
you don't you don't need to stand your ground.
37:05
Actually you can move and take all your wealth with you to
37:08
whatever ground is most favorable to to you write
37:14
whatever political conditions, geographic conditions Etc, are
37:18
most favorable to you and all the point of I'd you know,
37:23
political ideologies dwindling in the wake of a Bitcoin.
37:27
Oin standard or Bitcoin monetizing.
37:30
I think it's absolutely true because, you know, if you put
37:35
all of these things under the rubric of statism, whether it's
37:39
fascism communism. Even us capitalism, right?
37:42
It's not true. It's not capitalism.
37:44
Would be everyone keeps what they earn, right.
37:48
There's no taxation, there's no inflation.
37:50
There's no Central Bank that doesn't exist anywhere in the
37:53
world, even an even and especially in the US.
37:57
So all of these State isms, you just put them under the umbrella
38:03
of statism. Well, the political ideologies
38:08
that are pushed inside of States, as you said, typically
38:13
with the carrot attached to them of free stuff.
38:16
Well when we say free stuff, nothing is actually free.
38:19
Alright nothing is actually produced in the world for free.
38:22
Well we're actually saying is the state stole some of this
38:27
stuff. Cough from productive people
38:29
through taxation and inflation and is now giving them providing
38:33
a rebate back to some of these citizens as an inducement to
38:38
vote for or support their political candidate or ideology.
38:43
So, in a world. So the thing is like, in a world
38:46
where there is free money or free stuff that's, you know,
38:49
quote, unquote free stuff. It necessitates and requires an
38:54
unfree population, there have to be people that are being hemmed
38:58
in and extracted from stolen from there, have to be people
39:03
that are having their property rights violated for free stuff
39:06
to exist. So, in a world in a Bitcoin
39:09
world. And that is why this the best
39:12
quote on this? Every public auction is an
39:15
advanced. I'm sorry.
39:17
Every public election is an advanced auction on stolen
39:21
goods. So, all of these guys that we
39:24
vote in support and think that, oh, you know, the Democrat, I'm
39:28
a Democrat, I'm a republican. So, you're no matter which side
39:33
you support, they both work as statist and they work for
39:39
Central Bankers, right? So they're, they're they're
39:44
advocating for supporting and administering systematic theft.
39:50
and, you know, I just don't think that It's not something
39:56
you need to stand and fight. I mean I don't know like when I
40:01
say fight like there's not you don't need to stand and have a
40:04
physical altercation with the state.
40:09
What you can instead do is use the tools that are at your
40:14
disposal to move into the places and circumstances where you are
40:18
treated best. I think that's the best strategy
40:21
because you're never going to win.
40:23
You're never going to go toe-to-toe with the state and
40:25
when right that's just not by definition, the state is the
40:28
Monopoly of power and violence. Like no individual can go on a
40:34
one-on-one battle with the state and win but what we can do, you
40:38
know, as Hayek said, right? As introduce something, by some
40:41
Sly, roundabout way that they cannot stop.
40:44
And I think that thing is Bitcoin, so, and I want to be
40:48
careful here with my thinking and my talking and that it's
40:50
very easy. To say, oh, the state, like,
40:55
it's out there, like, it's something external to us.
40:58
But I really think it is a macrocosm of the individual ego,
41:05
right? That, that little fiction.
41:07
We all have that we are separate and we need to defend ourselves
41:13
from others and take from others.
41:15
Maybe we even justified in our actions to defend our own little
41:19
egoic livelihood, but the truth Is like we said earlier, like
41:24
everything's connected. Right?
41:25
Everyone, everything, affects everything else.
41:27
It's the world, Continuum. And just like the ego, is that
41:31
little fictional story. We Tell ourselves that were
41:34
separate from other things to justify certain actions.
41:36
I think the state is just the macrocosm of that.
41:39
That we pretend like the United States is somehow separate from
41:43
China or Russia or India. When in reality they're just
41:47
these these imaginary constructs that we use to justify coercion
41:52
and In violence on human beings. And so there's not I don't know
41:57
that you can even I don't know that even Bitcoin can fully
42:00
eradicate statism but the key leverage Point seems to be
42:08
making those activities less profitable just making it
42:12
introducing systems or technologies that make coercion
42:16
compulsion and violence, less profitable.
42:18
You make crime, you know that old saying, crime doesn't pay
42:22
well crime. Does pay as the existence of the
42:24
Central Bank and the nation-state proves.
42:28
But if you, you move as individuals naturally move
42:32
towards a Bitcoin standard to protect themselves against the
42:35
predations of central banks and nation states, that makes crime,
42:40
pay less, and less, and less, right?
42:42
The expect the cost to extract wealth from individuals, goes
42:46
Higher and Higher and Higher. And with that the businesses
42:49
that specialize in extracting, Walt from individuals, the Mine
42:53
lower and lower and lower so I just want to be careful like
42:58
it's very easy to say. What's the state going to do
43:01
against us bitcoiners as if there's some like bright line
43:05
dichotomy between the state and bitcoiners.
43:08
When in reality it's just a mishmash of individuals and
43:12
that, that amalgam, this this complex constellation of
43:17
individuals acting, they're driven primarily by incentive
43:21
structures, right? It's what is profitable.
43:24
That's what people are doing, what is profitable.
43:27
And so the big breakthrough, a Bitcoin is just making those
43:31
activities less profitable making the violation of private
43:35
property, said differently, making coercion compulsion and
43:39
violence, less profitable, and therefore less prevalent in the
43:43
sphere of human Affairs. I don't know of any better
43:47
solution than that. I don't think you can, you know,
43:50
quote-unquote fight or go toe-to-toe with the state.
43:53
You may be sure there have been victories in the past.
43:57
Right? Gandhi, had peaceful protest
43:59
about collecting salt down by the shore, which was being taxed
44:03
by Britain and, you know, he can, like motivate people to pay
44:07
attention to certain aspects of state criminality and drive
44:13
social movements and things like this.
44:14
I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say
44:17
none of that's valuable or useful, but I don't think we get
44:21
out of the cycle. Goals of criminality Associates
44:24
associated with statism until we rug pull ourselves on the
44:29
incentives. Schema that were inhabiting and
44:33
that's what Bitcoin is, right? This is money, that's our
44:36
property more generally. That's really hard to steal or
44:38
violate. So all the Specialists and and
44:42
theft and violation of property, if they don't go out of
44:47
business, they their businesses shrink To the extent that
44:52
Bitcoin makes these things less profitable.
44:54
So I hope that's not too abstract.
44:57
I'm trying to bring it all down to Earth, but it is such a major
45:02
change that. It's really hard to even
45:04
conceptualize what the world looks like from here, it might.
45:09
So, and I really enjoyed your response.
45:12
It is this a phenomenon that's going to happen.
45:15
Organically, is this something that just because of Bitcoins
45:18
mere incentives? Alone, the ability for the
45:21
Visual to, you know, store theoretically by memorizing, 12
45:25
words millions, billions or even trillions of dollars that gets
45:30
stored in their minds, right? That completely changes.
45:32
The power dynamics makes it very ineffective for, you know, the
45:37
state to seize wealth on a massive scale.
45:40
The only reason that they were able to get away with the 610 to
45:42
order is because most people, if they have a large amounts of
45:45
gold, they make us eat it in Banks, right?
45:48
But now, with the Advent of self, custody the Ability the
45:52
ability that Bitcoin gives you to do this, if you take personal
45:55
responsibility, it completely changes, those power dynamics.
45:59
But I guess my question to you is, is this phenomenon going to
46:03
happen organically is this going to be like the a slow
46:08
realization of you know of I hate using this word of The
46:13
Sovereign individuals, the bitcoiners that have taken into
46:16
self custody, they going to start to, you know, start asking
46:19
questions and then kind of The pros and cons and say look, is
46:23
it really advantageous for me to stay in the United States?
46:27
Even though I work remotes and I live in another country.
46:30
Why am I still paying Uncle Uncle Sam taxes.
46:33
What is the benefit of having a American citizenship?
46:38
No, no. These are all theories that were
46:40
laid out in the sovereign individual.
46:42
So, is this an organic process or is this something that's
46:46
going to require? You know, political willpower
46:51
where people will have to, you know, basically wake up the
46:54
population because the sad reality is Robert and this is
46:58
something that never never fled my mind when Natalie Brunell and
47:02
coin stories. Ask Michael sailor.
47:06
What kept him up at night. And his response was most people
47:10
don't care about sound money, right?
47:12
And if that's the case, then it's going to be very easy for
47:15
the state with their apparatus, to herd the cattle so to speak
47:23
into Central Bank, digital currencies.
47:25
And a lot of people are just going to go willingly because it
47:28
is convenient for them to do so. So how do you think this plays
47:33
out? What are your thoughts on that?
47:35
Well you know what, I often say on the show, that pain is
47:41
information. I pain as that primary
47:44
motivational force that encourages people to move into
47:50
new formations to reconfigure themselves to change their
47:56
circumstances. And I don't just mean like
47:59
physical pain of like your nerves hurting.
48:03
This could be emotional pain, this could be Financial.
48:05
Jane, this could be any any source of uneasiness, right?
48:10
That's this is like the whole core of of Austrian economics.
48:15
Is that humans act to alleviate felt uneasiness.
48:20
And although it is much more cost-effective to study the
48:25
world and study the history of people and how things have
48:33
changed and how technology changes things, etc, etc.
48:37
And you know, apply those lessons to your own life is much
48:39
more cost effective to, to absorb information, through
48:45
learning and education rather than it is learning the
48:48
proverbial hard way, right? You actually have to go through
48:51
the painful thing yourself. It does seem to me and again,
48:56
I'm a person that's learned too many things.
48:58
The hard way, I think people in general, the majority of people
49:05
need to learn things the hard way.
49:07
So yeah. We'll we'll States be able to
49:13
Corral people into CB DC's. Perhaps especially if they do it
49:20
correctly, right? If they don't induce the pain at
49:22
first and they balance the incentives in the disincentives
49:27
you know perhaps physical cash is steadily expiring over time
49:32
and if you switch to the CBD see you get a little bit of Ubi that
49:36
increases over time or some other type of yield product just
49:41
encouraging people to transition from The Familiar, you know, US
49:45
dollar bank account. It's or physical cash into this.
49:48
CB DC product, they could have significant success and getting
49:54
purchasing power to flow and depositors to flow from one
49:58
system to the other. But I don't think I still think
50:05
that system is going to be extremely fragile and ultimately
50:08
collapse because then all you will have done, is concentrate
50:12
more power into fewer hands and open up.
50:16
More people to the exploitation of the few, right?
50:21
Of the, the few people in that benefit as insiders right?
50:27
Whether these are shareholders or administrators of central
50:29
banks or nation-states, Etc. So you're not going to eliminate
50:34
the infliction of pain and that is ultimately what will cause
50:39
people to move? I have no idea what it's going
50:44
to look like the actual. Position itself, you know, the
50:49
question is like is it going to be organic or two people need to
50:51
take more political action? I don't know, I don't even know
50:55
exactly where to draw the line between those two terms, you
50:57
could argue that this whole thing is organic, right?
51:00
That humans organically like to scam one another.
51:05
I they not like to they seek to increase in advance their own
51:12
individual self-interest, even at the expense of others, if
51:16
given the opportunity. Unity and to the extent that it
51:18
is profitable to do so. But when other humans create new
51:24
tools or situations or legal structures, that make that less,
51:30
that make that more risky or more costly than humans are.
51:35
Human action is channeled towards away from non-productive
51:40
theft towards productive activities as a means of
51:43
acquiring wealth. So Yeah, I guess is maybe like a
51:48
long-winded way of saying all roads lead to bitcoin.
51:53
I just don't know how long and painful those roads are and
52:02
hopefully the educational effort we're all doing here in the
52:06
Bitcoin. Universe is helpful and I hope
52:09
we're delivering real orange pills to people that are taking
52:13
these questions. Seriously.
52:15
Evaluating Themselves as individuals on the stage of
52:22
history, and how, how things are changing, and hopefully
52:26
positioning themselves for success in this time of great
52:29
change in turmoil, and hopefully learning that the real key to
52:35
all this. It's an economic principle,
52:39
right? That you need to make yourself
52:42
expensive to tyrannize or difficult this up to be a hard
52:46
target. State are this is the same thing
52:49
in nature, right? What what, what animal does?
52:52
The lion eat, right? Heats the week or the lame or
52:55
the young, like the animal that cannot keep up with the rest of
52:59
the pack. The lion or the Predators will
53:02
pick off? Well, the state is the predator
53:06
and this in the sphere of socio-economic.
53:08
So if you can be one of those animals that's not lagging the
53:13
pack, right? And you're, you're in the pack,
53:15
or your head of the pack of your Your your your vigorous and your
53:19
vital then you are more likely to survive.
53:23
The the wealth redistribution schemes that are inevitably
53:28
coming as the business of statism goes into its Twilight
53:32
years. So Yeah, it's a weird thing,
53:39
man. It's, there's going to be pain.
53:41
People, learn through the pain. If you're really smart, you can
53:44
learn through the pain of others, rather than having to
53:46
learn through the pain yourself. But ultimately, I just don't see
53:55
how so long as Bitcoin continues to exist.
53:58
It's like people will just have to flow into it as a means of
54:03
survival, it's a necessity. All right, maybe today is like
54:07
an option or it's a speculation or whatever you want to call it.
54:11
It depends on where you are in the world.
54:13
If you're in the comfortable us especially if you're in the
54:15
upper class, it's just this speculative investment if you're
54:20
in the global South. Where you've been living under,
54:23
you know, 20% plus inflation year-over-year fucking forever.
54:28
It's a means of survival. Those conditions that Prevail in
54:32
the global. South are coming everywhere,
54:34
right? This is again, statism right,
54:37
Trends away from capitalism through that spectrum of
54:40
socialism more, and more aggression against private
54:42
property. Because it's just a business
54:44
trying to increase Its Top Line and grow like everything else,
54:47
and it has to culminate in the abolition of private property.
54:51
And when that happens like people are destroyed, if you
54:54
can't all human rights are destroyed in that situation,
54:58
right? Ian Rand said this property
55:00
rights to the basis of all human rights.
55:02
If a man cannot control the product of his labor, there is
55:05
nothing else. There is no, it's all gone, it's
55:08
all for naught. Like you can forget all human
55:10
civil liberties, all Notions of goodness or Compassion or
55:14
whatever, whatever Notions you have about the role of
55:17
government in the Affairs of the individual.
55:20
It's all based on. And when you abolish that, it's
55:23
all gone. I completely agree.
55:27
I also agree that we are witnessing the Twilight of the
55:31
nation-state model that's been around.
55:32
Since the Napoleonic are I completely agree with you.
55:35
Robert obviously, you know, we're we're from an ideological
55:39
perspective, you know, libertarian, right?
55:41
Do not know libertarian. You know, obviously, we're
55:45
capitalism Maxis but you know, the reality is that a big
55:50
percentage of the world population and I would even
55:54
double down and say they're not. Not completely aware of them
55:58
even supporting this itself like if they were truly and it
56:02
reminds me of this very famous video on on YouTube, by Uribe
56:07
Esmond off, which was basically a rush, a Russian agent that
56:11
escaped or Soviet Union that escaped.
56:14
The Soviet Union came to America and he was talking about the
56:17
process as demoralization and I think a large percentage of the
56:23
population all around the world is Relies, they've been in
56:26
septic with this idea that capitalism is the villain.
56:30
You mentioned it earlier on, in the podcast, when people say
56:34
we're in late-stage capitalism, it's like we haven't even had
56:37
capitalism. I don't think capitalism is
56:39
possible with the Central Bank, in the first place.
56:42
So what about them? What about them, right?
56:45
Because the reality is that. Yeah, I truly believe that as,
56:50
you know, the nation-state crumbles and it in its, in its
56:54
last death throes. I'm very sure that opportunistic
56:57
politicians are going to use Bitcoin and bitcoiners as a
57:03
scapegoat as a very successful, scapegoat say.
57:06
So your problems is that these people and you hear it with the
57:09
rhetoric. People aren't pairing paying
57:12
their fair share. You know, you hear that rhetoric
57:15
over and over and over again. And it's almost a distraction
57:20
from what is the root cause what is the cause of all their
57:23
economic woes, that will it cause of all the Economic woes
57:26
is the fact the money that they're using, right?
57:29
The base layer, the operating system of which they in which
57:33
they in which they perceive the world is fundamentally
57:37
corrupted, it's broken and it's been stealing from them and this
57:41
is a large amount of people do you believe with?
57:45
I'm sure you've read this piece by svet ski right.
57:48
You know the masses don't matter.
57:50
It's really The Remnant. Do you do believe with that
57:52
theory? Is it really just As long as we
57:56
have a, you know it's a couple you know, a handful of
57:59
bitcoiners that believe in this. We're just going to go to where
58:03
we're treated best. But the reality is though,
58:06
Robert that we're still going to need the men with guns,
58:09
protecting our property rights in a way perhaps not in
58:12
cyberspace, but we all need a, we need a, we need a physical
58:15
domain, right? We need a house, right?
58:21
What's your take on this? Maybe, I've been around a little
58:24
too much myself. I have a believer in the
58:29
minority rule, which is something to lub wrote about
58:33
that the, and many systems, the preferences of an, obstinate
58:39
minority. Can impose themselves on a
58:42
majority, he's given a number of examples about this, but I think
58:46
that with Bitcoin, And typically, it's a very small
58:50
numbers like three to four percent of a population.
58:53
They have very rigid preferences and the rest of the population
58:57
is somewhat flexible or more flexible than the obstinate
59:02
minority that the majority will bend to the preferences of the
59:05
minority in Bitcoin. I think this is, you have to
59:09
look at it in terms of capital, all right?
59:11
So, whatever Bitcoins total addressable Market is Somewhere
59:17
between 100 and 400 trillion dollars perhaps in 2023 dollars
59:24
maybe higher. I'm not sure if Bitcoins market
59:30
cap gets to when Bitcoins market cap gets to four percent of that
59:34
number. I think that's when things start
59:37
to get really weird that the preferences of bitcoiners start
59:42
to impose themselves on the world.
59:44
And and again, if the state state is, you know, even if
59:48
States coordinate their efforts in attack on bitcoin, How are
59:53
they going to keep that up? Because again, it's like, okay,
59:56
it all has to be funded through theft.
59:59
So all that all they're pushing that pain and all their
1:00:02
citizens, to fund the gulags, and the military, and the this,
1:00:06
and the that and we'll what are you doing?
1:00:09
When you do that is you're creating incentives for all
1:00:11
those? People are being preyed upon to
1:00:14
exit the system, right? And so it's it's like a natural
1:00:18
selection process that I just don't think you can avoid It's
1:00:22
like the harder, the state tries to fight back against Bitcoin,
1:00:26
the more pain, they create in their citizenry, which means
1:00:30
they're creating a greater incentive for their citizenry to
1:00:33
defect from fiat currency into Bitcoin, which means they're
1:00:37
growing the market capitalization of Bitcoin, which
1:00:40
means they're reducing reservation.
1:00:42
Demand for fiat currency, which means they have to print more
1:00:44
currency, even more rapidly. And taxa populations even harder
1:00:48
to continue the aggression against Bitcoin, which you get
1:00:51
into this very Vicious feedback loop in which the state
1:00:54
collapses and Bitcoin monetizes. I don't know how you prevent
1:00:58
that like it just there's no if if the state had some productive
1:01:02
Revenue source which it doesn't, it's all extractive, then maybe
1:01:06
they could fund a war against Bitcoin in some meaningful way,
1:01:11
but given that all the revenues are directs Tractive and nature.
1:01:16
I think all of their efforts to to fight this idea are
1:01:20
self-defeating in the end, and that's where I mean, that's the
1:01:24
Deep. Like, that's where the depth of
1:01:27
My conviction comes from it's like this weird game theoretic
1:01:31
incentive structure realignment that no individual can ignore or
1:01:35
turn off their for all the institutional realities.
1:01:38
We have constructed a stork Ali are reconfigured as a result.
1:01:43
Yeah. So yeah.
1:01:45
They did make some Obsolete. And we say this, we say this all
1:01:49
the time on simply as well, right?
1:01:51
Which is Bitcoins incentives, are stronger than any coercion.
1:01:54
Yeah. Right.
1:01:55
And I think that over time, that will become more and more
1:01:58
apparent. I want to end it with this
1:02:00
Robert you're in the you know, you are in the media space.
1:02:03
You're one of the most successful Bitcoin, you know,
1:02:06
podcasters to date. One of the most popular.
1:02:12
One of the things that what I'm seeing right in, Is V attempt of
1:02:17
breaking through the Bitcoin Echo chamber because the reality
1:02:21
is that, a lot of the content that we make, right, whether the
1:02:23
top of the funnel mid funnel, you know, whatever, wherever
1:02:28
which wherever you are in that funnel of Bitcoin content
1:02:31
creator, wherever you fall, the realities of the vast majority
1:02:35
of people that watch our content Robert are already bitcoiners,
1:02:39
right? So how do we break that Echo
1:02:42
chamber? Is that something that you've
1:02:44
put? It into how do we get the ideas
1:02:48
of Bitcoin, the ethos of Bitcoin into the mainstream
1:02:51
Consciousness so that we can avoid this inevitable clash with
1:02:56
the state that I think is coming the, the looming clouds are
1:03:01
moving closer Ever. So slowly, is that something
1:03:04
that you've put some thought into?
1:03:07
Yeah, it is. I mean, even the origin story of
1:03:11
the show, I didn't name it. I mean anything, you know that
1:03:16
the show doesn't have Bitcoin in the title, it's just the, what
1:03:21
is money show. So it was intended to be rather
1:03:25
than being this assertive kind of approach where like, you
1:03:30
know, Here's why you need to look at Bitcoin or, you know,
1:03:35
it's like a, like, pushing it on someone, it was intended to be
1:03:37
more of a pool. It's like, well, you know, let
1:03:40
me invite you into this line of inquiry, right?
1:03:44
Like, what is money? Have you thought about this?
1:03:46
Well, let's start looking at all the different aspects of it and
1:03:49
the things that it touches and how it influences history and
1:03:52
Human Action. So, I intended to show, you
1:03:59
know, I even early on, I mean, we if you've listened to the
1:04:03
show at all, we are a Bitcoin podcast.
1:04:05
Like there's no secret about that, but it was intended to be
1:04:11
something that was more subtle than like this in your face,
1:04:15
kind of Bitcoin podcast. Because I know, like, I remember
1:04:19
what it was like to be outside of Bitcoin, right?
1:04:22
To be a private Corner. If I saw a podcast that was
1:04:25
like, You know, the Bitcoin podcast, or whatever it's
1:04:29
called, I wouldn't be drawn to that, that wouldn't it would
1:04:32
feel like someone was trying to sell me something again, if you
1:04:36
put on your pre Bitcoin, her hat, right?
1:04:38
When we all thought it was magic internet money, or Ponzi scheme,
1:04:42
or whatever, whatever derisively perspective, you had on it that
1:04:46
cause you not to look more deeply into it.
1:04:50
I felt that those That positioning was less effective
1:04:54
for someone like me, so I just tried to create a show that
1:04:58
would be appealing to someone like me.
1:04:59
And for me, it's like invite me in, right?
1:05:02
Ask the question. Tell me, you know, let's look at
1:05:05
different angles. Let's try to argue it.
1:05:07
Let's think adversarially that that's just how I try to learn.
1:05:13
And so, I guess that's one approach.
1:05:18
And I hope it helped. You know I hope it's helping.
1:05:22
Our numbers are really good and growing so I don't know.
1:05:25
I don't know exactly who listens to the show, I know we've got a
1:05:28
lot of bitcoiners that listen to the show, but I think there's a
1:05:31
lot of people becoming bitcoiners because of the show.
1:05:35
Like they come into the, they hear me on whatever thing they
1:05:39
listen to one of the episodes we say in the pre-roll sequence,
1:05:42
like if this is your first time listening to this show, I highly
1:05:45
recommend you go back to episode 1 and start with the Taylor
1:05:48
series and just go there and like as far as orange pilling
1:05:52
podcast goes definitely weren't feeling on my podcast.
1:05:56
There's no better resource like just go to episode one and
1:05:58
listen to it straight through. You know, I hope that's
1:06:03
contributing to bursting the Bitcoin, Echo chamber, to some
1:06:08
extent and getting these, these newbies, a proper orange filling
1:06:12
experience when they discover me or the podcast another Thing
1:06:19
that comes to mind is. Just living the like really
1:06:24
living the philosophy. It's not enough to espouse and
1:06:30
articulate. And you know, with all look, I'm
1:06:34
the guiltiest of us all. I love to talk about these
1:06:36
topics and I find it very useful.
1:06:38
While I'm talking to smart people about these.
1:06:41
Big strange ideas and wrestling with them and getting wrapped up
1:06:45
and authentic dialogue. It's great.
1:06:48
It's like a sport and, you know, it's so much fun and fulfilling.
1:06:51
And many ways but it's not enough.
1:06:54
Write the words again, may be somewhat related to that
1:06:58
inadequacy of language. I mentioned earlier, the words
1:07:01
are not enough. I'm reminded, you know,
1:07:05
something fuck. Was it Play-Doh?
1:07:08
Or someone said like lettuce, suspect any man who does not
1:07:14
take care of him. So, like suspect any philosopher
1:07:16
that does not take care of himself, right?
1:07:17
Like we have to live what we say.
1:07:20
And so with Bitcoin it's like, you know, truth proof of work,
1:07:26
responsibilities self sovereignty, Freedom Integrity,
1:07:31
you know. All of these like themes.
1:07:34
Are these attributes or principles that are encoded in
1:07:37
Bitcoin? I think we have to really strive
1:07:41
to incorporate those into our own lives and live by that
1:07:45
example and not, not like you're trying to put on a show like,
1:07:50
oh, look at me, I'm So Into proof of work and Truth.
1:07:52
Like actually do it, like, actually call yourself on your
1:07:56
own bullshit, you know, figure out a way to integrate Your
1:08:00
Shadow. We all have these these dark
1:08:02
sides. You can't.
1:08:04
Get rid of them, you can only acknowledge them, befriend them
1:08:08
and integrate them into yourself, becoming a more whole
1:08:11
person in the process. And then just leading, by
1:08:15
example, I think that's essential like if you want to
1:08:20
really be a full-blooded bit corner, you have got to adhere
1:08:25
to this philosophy in an embodied way, right?
1:08:28
It's not enough to talk about it's not enough to study it.
1:08:32
This is like What does Musashi see in the book of nine Rings.
1:08:36
He'll tell you all these things he's like.
1:08:39
But reading about it is not enough.
1:08:40
You must practice. He concludes like every passage
1:08:43
with that, like one of the one of my favorite phrases of his
1:08:46
the way is in training the way which is like basically the god
1:08:51
of Eastern philosophy, right Dow the way the path, the true
1:08:56
course, the true way, something like that, the way of nature is
1:09:01
in training. He says so it's like you have to
1:09:03
actually Create these regimens for yourself.
1:09:08
These patterns of, living, this lifestyle and, and adhere to it,
1:09:13
and a dad and constantly adapt it, re-evaluate it.
1:09:16
And so that's what I'm trying to do.
1:09:18
You know, it's Bitcoin has changed me a lot but it's only
1:09:22
increased. My aspirations for further
1:09:25
change like I want to get better and better and better and you
1:09:31
know, none of us are perfect and it's not He and it's a, it's an
1:09:35
eternal struggle, but it just seems so important that if we're
1:09:39
going to represent this movement adequately to the outside world
1:09:44
that we need to be living breathing examples of the power
1:09:48
of Bitcoin, the truthfulness of Bitcoin the the freedom of
1:09:52
Bitcoin, you know, all of these things.
1:09:54
So yeah. Lead, by example, 100% Robert
1:10:02
man. It's truly been an honor to have
1:10:04
you for the first time on simply Bitcoin IRL.
1:10:07
Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you the
1:10:10
interwebs and most importantly any events or any things that
1:10:14
you know that you have coming up in the near future that you want
1:10:17
to talk about that you're interested in, I know that
1:10:21
you're speaking at the Bitcoin conference and I know that your
1:10:25
you'll be also speaking at the thank God for Bitcoin as well.
1:10:29
I'll see you there on both of those should be great.
1:10:33
So yeah, why don't ya? So many events coming up before
1:10:38
the Bitcoin conference. I'll be in Orlando for the
1:10:40
microstrategy lightning event. That's the I think the week May
1:10:46
second through fifth, something like that.
1:10:49
Not speaking there. I was be participating in the
1:10:51
event. I'll be in Miami will be there a
1:10:56
week prior to the conference. Recording a bunch of episodes
1:11:00
will be there for a few days. After recording, a bunch of
1:11:01
episodes. Albeit, a lot of the events, the
1:11:04
side events. Speaking at the conference, I
1:11:07
think I'm also doing a fireside chat at the conference after
1:11:11
that, I'll be in Bitcoin Prague, it's another big event in
1:11:14
Europe. Speaking, they're doing some
1:11:16
panels there. I'll be at the Oslo Freedom
1:11:19
Forum with the human rights Foundation also interviewing
1:11:23
some of their guests there. I'll be a bit block, boom.
1:11:27
That's in August of this year. I'll be speaking there and yeah
1:11:34
you know trying to just get out there and hopefully represent
1:11:42
Bitcoin in the best light possible.
1:11:45
You know, I just it's so important that more people that
1:11:49
we recruit more hearts and Minds into the space.
1:11:51
So I hope all of these meatspace events are useful for that.
1:11:58
I know, I really look like every year I look forward to the Miami
1:12:01
Conference because it's just a, it's just a Love Fest man.
1:12:04
Like bitcoiners are down there, just vibing and enjoying each
1:12:07
other's company. Sharing some stimulating
1:12:10
conversation, you know, having some good foods and drinks.
1:12:13
It's really a good time. So I am thrilled about that for
1:12:18
the interwebs where you can find me on the interwebs, what is
1:12:21
money? Podcast.com and then, my Twitter
1:12:23
handle is at Breedlove 22. Awesome man.
1:12:28
Will looking forward to seeing you in Miami will show.
1:12:31
I'm sure we will cross paths. And like I said, man, it's
1:12:35
really been an honor to have you on the show.
1:12:38
I'm going to put you back stage for a bit while I wrap up.
1:12:41
Thank you guys for listening to another episode of Simply
1:12:43
Bitcoin IR L will be back with the live show tomorrow.
1:12:45
Simply Bitcoin live at 12:15 p.m.
1:12:48
Eastern Standard Time. Love you all.
1:12:50
Thank you so much for tuning in and I will see you tomorrow.
1:12:53
Peace out.