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Monday Mini: Yet Another Reason Toxic Fandom Needs to Go · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Well the stuff I ever told you production of iHeartRadio,
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: and today we are continuing our streak of talking about
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: all things fandom. We didn't really plan it to be
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: this way, no, but it turned out to be this way.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: We were in sync.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: We are in sync.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: This is also when I always go to dragon Con
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: every year. You can see our recent happy hour we
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: just did on that about what I think is going
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: to happen, and then soon you'll you can hear our
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: post happy hour about what happens. I also forgot to
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: mention in that pre happy hour that I got my
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: haircut and I do it every year for dragon Con.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna compliment you.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: And when I walked in because I only go once
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: a year right before dragon Con, she was like, it's you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: She said she was gonna start like researching into how
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: to do because I showed her what other cosplayers do
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: for Luke Skywalker and she was like, oh, I'm gonna
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: look into this, Okay, I love it. Yes, yes, So
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I was telling Samantha, I actually wrote this outline a
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: long time ago, and I am going to keep it
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: short because it's really long. But I'm just gonna hit
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: kind of the main points because I was really feeling
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of emotions when I wrote this. But today
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: we are talking about another reason I need toxic fandom
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: to go away, and this is so I can complain
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: about how much I didn't like the alc Lide.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: So you did watch it, and oh no, this I did.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: And I I really didn't like it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: That's gonna get nicely. You should see how many like
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: full caps things are in this outline, yes, And you know,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: to be honest, I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: like it when I read what it was about, because
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: it just had so many things that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I really don't. That's like one of my.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Least favorite types of relationships. It's kind of the good
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: girl bad boy thing.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I hate that, and so it was it was already
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: gonna be a stretch.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, yes, okay, completely, I cannot stand.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: This, and I even did.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I wrote a twenty three page I say about why
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I don't like it, and I researched it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I did interviews.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I was so determined to make interview I interviewed people
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: because I was so scared. I had drank some kind
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of Star Wars nostalgia like kool aid, and was just like,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to become that person, you know, and
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: so I really like I wanted to back up my flight.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: But that's not what I'm here to talk about today.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm going to try to trim down this
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: very long outline because I am sorry people who did
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: like it. I know how painful it is when something
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: you enjoy gets canceled and it is still going in
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the comics, and I know for some people that's like
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: not the same, But I have to tell you there's
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of the comics that are better than I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: what I think you're seeing on Disney. Plus that's my opinion,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: so I yeah, that's not really what I'm here to
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: talk about. I also want to say, obviously, what happened
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: when it came to the racist, misogynistic, homophobic backlash was
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: disgusting and I don't want to be any part of that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: And that's the issue here. That's what I want to
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: talk about. Because they're taking up all of the room,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: they're so loud, and they're so they attack the creators
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: and the actors, they attack everybody involved, and it's gross
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and I need it to go for many reasons, many
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: reasons we've talked about on here before, but this is
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: just another one.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: This is another one.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Because I've talked before about how there's some things specifically
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: in the Star Wars realm that I've defended that I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: actually didn't like, but I appreciate. I want to defend
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: them from this wave of hatred, which, as we've also
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: discussed a lot of it is run by bots.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: So they're not only taking up all of the room,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: all the air in the room, they're like using bots
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: to help do it.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: So it's complicated too, and that something very strange happened
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: in this case because there was that contingent, and then
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: there was just a bunch of us that legitimately didn't.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Like it, but we didn't feel like we could.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: We didn't want to add on, we didn't want any
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: be associated with them.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It was a mess. It was a mess. It still
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: is a mess.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm so sorry to everyone involves because that was
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: really awful. And it was one of the first times
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: that Disney actually posted something about it, and it was
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: still not enough, and the actors were like, that's not enough.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: But it was like one of the first times they
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: actually did that.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: But I just.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I wish that we could have a nice civil discussion
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: about these things and it doesn't have to be so big,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Like I have these really strong emotions about it, but
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I would never I'm not gonna post about it. I'm
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: not gonna do anything hateful about it. But also I
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: get it's not for me, and that's okay. I do want,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: like I was excited in terms of it had a
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: woman as a showrunner, had a very diverse cast. That
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: was exciting. I want more of that. So I want
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I want things like that to get the space. Because
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the thing is also like, maybe if they had gotten
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: a second season, maybe I would have liked the second season.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to say I would, but maybe
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I would have, Like I can't say for sure. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: there have been a lot of instances in the Star
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Wars world where people didn't like things at first and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: then they came like I mean, look at the prequels
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: right now, they're having a renaissance. I can't even wrap
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: my mind around it. But that people didn't like them
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: at the time, trust me, I don't know, but I
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: wish like I because I was so concerned anytime it
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: came up, I didn't want to be associated with this backlash,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: so I would just be like and that's really I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: wish it wasn't like that, because I think things can
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: get better through having those conversations. And you know, we've
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: talked about like stands and anti anti stands antis before,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and I worry that in a lot of these spaces
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: were going so strong that we're kind of erasing the
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: middle ground, or even like people who really love something
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: but have you know, a minor complaint and they're like, ah,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: you made it, get out of here. So I just
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: wish we could have a space. And in this case,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: as discussed, this is often online. I personally suspect a
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: lot of people don't feel at least how it's the
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: portrayed online. I don't think there's as many people who
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: feel that way, but it's still that still impacts you
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: if you see it, if you want to participate in
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: those Spanish spaces and you're getting all of this, I
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: mean hate or backlash yourself just for saying something. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: mean I've mentioned before last was too my favorite game.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: There's a long time where I wouldn't say that unless
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I was pretty sure that the person wasn't going to
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: go off about it, and I was even reading I'm
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: gonna have to do a whole episode on this. But
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: I was reading the guidelines updated fan fiction guidelines for
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: A three because I was pretty sure I'd run into
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: some activity that is.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Not allowed on AO three. It wasn't bad.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: It was basically somebody was trying to sell me their art,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is not allowed.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: So I was reading through all the guidelines and the
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: way I hadn't done earlier.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And it was interesting because it was talking about the
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: ways that people will attack each other, usually over shipping,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of like if you hate a ship someone does, or
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: somebody hates a ship that you love, and the ways
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: that that can really really devolve into something unpleasant for everybody.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And so this is just a case of where I'm
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: usually somebody who airs on the side of It's rare
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: that I dislike something as much as I disliked this.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I'm usually much more you know what, I don't need
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: to think about this, But this impacted the phantom so much.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: It impacted my fan fiction so much.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: Oh oh really, oh yeah yeah that and AI really hmm.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: But usually I'm much more Okay, I'm going to move
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: on from that, right, So this is a pretty rare
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: case for me. But it was an instance where I
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: was like, I don't I want to complain about this,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: but I also don't want to be a part of
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: all of this fools that's happening, So I'm just not
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: going to And so it was kind of a new
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: experience for me, to be honest, and I didn't I
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: don't know. I had a lot of thoughts about it,
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: and I wrote a lot about.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: It, but I mean, I also just I would love
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: of a healthier environment where creators and actors weren't attacked
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: if you didn't like a thing, I would love that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: That would be great.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: But yes, so those are the thoughts I shall give
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you from this very long Outye.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: There's definitely conversations in the fight, but it is disappointing
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: because it was has so much diversity and kind of
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: like the Eternals, I don't different, but in that way
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: of like did they get set up to fail? The timing,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: the way they did it, the way they presented it,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the way they edited it, Like what did they do?
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Was it a purposeful? See? We tried y'all didn't like it.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: You want white people only, type of heteronormative types of things,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: however it needs to be. I've never seen the show, y'all,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: but like, I love Manny justinto I love what he
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: represents in the Asian community as well as in general,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: just like a good guy seemingly like the way he
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: loves his wife, the way he promotes women, like way
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: it seems like he's a really cool dude that he's
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: been working in this industry for so long and it
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: took a long time to get here, and then something
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: that like kind of a more serious role for him,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: because you know, it came from like goofy background is
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: with like the good place, and then like because you're
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: not the only one. Many people were like, look, we
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: just did not like it. But we also think that
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: there may have been a lax in distribution back like
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: production writing all this because they did not care as
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: much as they're just filling a quota. Again, I don't
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: know that for sure, but that is like the question
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: mark because in a lot of this Disney series, that's
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: what it feels like. It's like they do subpar work
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: for things that seem what the right would be called woke,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: which gets accused, you know, and that's a huge thing
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: in this industry, especially like superhero and fantasy series or
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: like movies that that has this weird line of who
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: they allowed to poke fun at what or commentate on what.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: So I don't know, I wonder like too because like, again,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: you're not the only one. Obviously, it did not go
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: do well.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: It did not.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Like other than the shipping and the thirst traps that
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: came through it, there's reels.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I've not heard too.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Any great things, and it's one of those I wish
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I did. I would have been interested in seeing the succeed.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I think most people would be like it would have
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: meant a lot for that group of people, you.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, oh absolutely, I say it like that
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: is because the storyline, I feel like.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Is that's that was tricky.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: We've talked about this before because there's a difference between
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like criticizing writing, because I have my fair amount of
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: criticisms of writing in the Star Wars Arena versus just
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: hating on something as it's woke or you think it's woke, right,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And so that's what I want is I want more
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: space for that to exist. But also as we've discussed
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: with our recent some of our more recent takes on
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: superhero movies, is that a company like Disney's studio like
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Disney will come in and they just have like usually
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: they have final edit privileges, they have all of these
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: things that can really mess up the flow of something
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: or the storytelling of something. And then a lot of
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: the conversation that came out after this, which is a
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: bit more complicated than what we can get into now,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: is that Disney had to release, so did Netflix. But
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: basically like how many people watch something versus how much
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it cost, and it was insanely expensive to make this show.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: But that's been their problem for a long time.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Is their budgets just balloon and balloon and balloon. And
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of articles about you know, the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: original trilogy. They were pretty cheap actually, and the scheme
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: of things, so like you need to maybe it would be.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: A good idea to go back to the drawing board
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and learn how.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: To make something that isn't like two hundred million dollars
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to eight hundred million dollars, right, and then it wouldn't
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: be such a big loss, like, oh, we have to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: kindle this.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I mean, the revamping of indie films is
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: coming back. People are kind of thirsty for something unique.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, oh my goodness me, but I.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Showing your feelings with us.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: But also the other thing is like, another part of
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: this is that and Or season two, from what I understand,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: is more expensive than Act like was. But and Or
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: season two has more episodes, is longer, and notably it
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: was critically acclaimed, So the critical acclaim part does help.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: But it was very expensive. I remember reading that.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's I haven't watched it yet,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: but I'm watching it before jigon Con. I am watching
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: it before.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, got to get it done. I gotta get it done.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I gotta get it done. It's just like it's one
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of the it's intense. It's intense because it's like the
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Empire taking over. And I'm like, you know right now.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: This is sort of a.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, oh, and at least it's up into Rogue one,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: which we all know is your favorite you like me
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and lie to you. I just forgot that you didn't
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: know what I knew. I still feel bad about about that.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, thanks for letting me have a semi minut
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: session about this.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: There's a reason I let it sit for so yeah, okay,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I need to step away from this room minute, take
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: a minute. Yes, I need to take a minute.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And yes, truly to anybody who did who enjoyed it,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I'm really sorry because that it does.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It sucks.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I've lost some shows I liked and it's it's miserable.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But that's when you go to the fan fiction in Yes,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: but they are still writing. They are still writing comics,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: so and I promise you those I never thought i'd
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: be like an avid Star Wars comic reader, but some
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of them are really really good, so check them out.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: If you're still hurting, I would.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Say, yeah, So all listeners, do you have any thoughts
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: about this?
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Please let us go.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Hello at Stuff onllevertold you
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on blue Sky at
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast or Instagram and TikTok at stuff will
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Never told you. We're also on YouTube and we have
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a new place to get merch called Cotton Bureau, so
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: go check that out. We also have a book you
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: our super producer, Senior Executive Pducer, my dercontributor Joey, thank
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: you and thanks to you for listening stuff I never
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: told you to.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Protection of my Heart Radio.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts on my Heart Radio, you can check
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: out the I Heart Radio at Apple podcast wherever you
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.