Latest / UK Column Radio / Is China Winning the Global Game? Taiwan, Panama & Japan Reveal the New Reality | Silk and Steel

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Is China Winning the Global Game? Taiwan, Panama & Japan Reveal the New Reality | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: We are joined today with the one, the only, the
0:04
Speaker 1: fantastic Carl Jah. How's it going, man?
0:08
Speaker 2: How are you with Jamark? Always good to see you.
0:12
Speaker 1: It's good to see you too, man. It's good to
0:14
Speaker 1: see you so, Carl Jah. He is host of and
0:17
Speaker 1: I can see this. Everybody knows you are, but to
0:20
Speaker 1: still like to I don't know stand over Carl Ja
0:24
Speaker 1: Silk and Steal podcasts focused on China and surrounding regions,
0:27
Speaker 1: their history, culture and politics. You can follow Carl Finish.
0:32
Speaker 1: You can follow this podcast at Steel Silk, and you
0:36
Speaker 1: can subscribe a sports podcast on page behind dot com
0:40
Speaker 1: Silk fil And, as I keep pointing out, Carl has
0:43
Speaker 1: a fantastic podcast. It goes over the five thousand year
0:47
Speaker 1: history of China, which you can imagine it is rather immense.
0:52
Speaker 1: I seem to be having Internet difficulties, Carl. So if
0:55
Speaker 1: I'm blink out still Fred, it's most likely me for
0:58
Speaker 1: some reason, the computer of the signal has been weak today.
1:03
Speaker 1: But Carl, welcome to showman. Thank you for joining me.
1:07
Speaker 1: The reason that was always the reason I hit you
1:11
Speaker 1: up is because I saw these massive protests taking place
1:14
Speaker 1: in Taiwan and how they started seemed to be. It
1:21
Speaker 1: was very near to me essentially considering that they changed
1:24
Speaker 1: over into going after the government itself. What's going on
1:27
Speaker 1: in Taiwan? What was the cause of the protests?
1:32
Speaker 2: So there are hundreds of thousands people protesting the current
1:36
Speaker 2: Taiwan government. Uh, the original trigger was about food safety,
1:42
Speaker 2: specifically about cooking oil, because people in Taiwan actually take
1:47
Speaker 2: their food safety very seriously. But the real deep cost
1:51
Speaker 2: is that the current ruling party in Taiwan, the DPP,
1:55
Speaker 2: they have been ruling Taiwan for more than a decade now,
1:58
Speaker 2: and they're popularity is at the lowest level. He's the
2:05
Speaker 2: current sitting president, the quote unquote president. He was elected
2:10
Speaker 2: with like forty of the votes. Like you know, he
2:15
Speaker 2: was never a very popular guy, and now he's even
2:18
Speaker 2: less so. And so now the sun the discontent start
2:23
Speaker 2: to switching from you know, demanding the government doing something
2:29
Speaker 2: about regulating food safety to hey, why are we provoking China?
2:34
Speaker 2: Why can chill and have improved the craftstra relationship, which
2:40
Speaker 2: is a legitimate, legitimate question. Now I think more telling
2:43
Speaker 2: is a fact that there's very few international coverage in
2:49
Speaker 2: particularly in English language media, because the first time I
2:52
Speaker 2: even noticed about reporting about this Taiwan protest is from
2:58
Speaker 2: South China Morning Post, which is an English language media
3:02
Speaker 2: in Hong Kong based in Hong Kong, and then two
3:05
Speaker 2: by CNA, which is a singapore Ian based media channel.
3:10
Speaker 2: So that's it. Like if you go to Reuters, somebody
3:14
Speaker 2: went when I posted about that on Twitter, somebody actually
3:18
Speaker 2: did a Google search search trying to search Reuter's article
3:22
Speaker 2: reporting protests on Taiwan, and what they come up with
3:26
Speaker 2: is hundreds in Taiwan, you know, protesting asking the government
3:30
Speaker 2: to expand the weapon purchase program for the United States, right.
3:36
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing that they will feed you
3:39
Speaker 2: in the mainstream English language media. It's like, hundreds of
3:42
Speaker 2: people in Taiwan are protesting de banding, we buy expensive
3:47
Speaker 2: American weapons to fight China. And when there's hundreds of
3:51
Speaker 2: thousands of people protesting, the Taiwan current government is like
3:56
Speaker 2: never a peep because it doesn't fit their mainstream narrative.
4:00
Speaker 2: It because they don't know how to spin that. You know,
4:03
Speaker 2: there there's a normal spin is Taiwan is this like
4:09
Speaker 2: David versus a Goliath story. Taiwan is this plucky David,
4:15
Speaker 2: you know, like a bastion of democracy in East Asia,
4:20
Speaker 2: standing up to the big bad authoritarian in China, intending
4:25
Speaker 2: on to swallow it up, right, and but when people
4:28
Speaker 2: actually say no, like I think our government are foolish
4:32
Speaker 2: to try to provoke China that obviously does not play
4:37
Speaker 2: with the you know, Washington State Department agenda. So so
4:40
Speaker 2: they just don't. They just choose to completely ignore it.
4:43
Speaker 2: Oh here, here you have the video.
4:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was part of the video of the protests.
4:51
Speaker 1: I didn't have a huge amount of it, was just
4:52
Speaker 1: a small portion of it. But yeah, they were protesting,
4:55
Speaker 1: they were pissed off, and they were going after the
4:57
Speaker 1: government itself. That's wow to me, that that's amazing. They
5:03
Speaker 1: have these active protests and response to ROTERSI let's just
5:06
Speaker 1: bury it because I don't remember seeing this. I follow
5:09
Speaker 1: the Chinese social media sites and I remember seeing it there.
5:13
Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing it in the media here in
5:15
Speaker 1: the United States. So fair point. They are now calling
5:21
Speaker 1: for the government to step down. How did it change
5:24
Speaker 1: from cooking oil or let's cooking safety to the government
5:29
Speaker 1: needs to epitulate.
5:32
Speaker 2: You know. I mean, it's just people are fed up.
5:34
Speaker 2: People are fed up with the DPP's incompetence at governing Taiwan.
5:39
Speaker 2: Their life had moved in the last decades that the
5:43
Speaker 2: DPP has been ruling Taiwan. You know, they promise again,
5:46
Speaker 2: they promise a lot, just like Trump, mister Trump, who
5:49
Speaker 2: promised tons of things before he became the president and
5:53
Speaker 2: none of them has come too. And and and people
5:57
Speaker 2: are you know, people want to reachmeially on the island.
6:03
Speaker 2: And then the cooking oil is just you know, kind
6:05
Speaker 2: of the last draw that broke Camels back. It's what
6:09
Speaker 2: rallied people to the street. And then as the protest
6:13
Speaker 2: went on, people started airing other facet of their discontent
6:18
Speaker 2: with the government as we saw. I mean, this is
6:21
Speaker 2: this happened organically in other protests as well. So but uh,
6:26
Speaker 2: you know I mentioned before was you know, on my
6:30
Speaker 2: own show with guests from Taiwan, they also mentioned there's
6:33
Speaker 2: actually a political tectonic shift in Taiwan itself. Among the
6:39
Speaker 2: Taiwan public, it's basically the election. The coming election is
6:45
Speaker 2: the oppositions to lose. You know, the last time they lost,
6:49
Speaker 2: the opposition lost because they weren't united. They split up
6:53
Speaker 2: the opposition vote, you know, the sixty percent opposition vote,
6:57
Speaker 2: when like half half, thirty thirty. That's why DPP candidate
7:02
Speaker 2: with only forty percent of the vote was was being
7:06
Speaker 2: elected the leader. So now now now the question is
7:10
Speaker 2: can the opposition get their act together to form a
7:13
Speaker 2: coalition and to do some real damage in the coming
7:17
Speaker 2: coming November election Taiwan has about you know, they're on
7:20
Speaker 2: the same election cycle as the United States. So so
7:24
Speaker 2: so the next next election will be very important because
7:27
Speaker 2: the barometer for the presidential election coming up in two years.
7:34
Speaker 2: So and and Washington for sure is also paying attention
7:38
Speaker 2: because you know, d d P, DPP has been very plying,
7:43
Speaker 2: you know, puppy dog to play the role of the
7:46
Speaker 2: US proxy in East Asia, particularly against China. So you know,
7:53
Speaker 2: go ahead, you you have a questions why I like
8:01
Speaker 2: I said, you know, it's it's the the election is
8:04
Speaker 2: oppositions to lose if they cannot get their acts together,
8:10
Speaker 2: if they split the vote again. Because right now Taiwan
8:14
Speaker 2: has three parties. They have the ruling party DPP, they
8:18
Speaker 2: have the old k m T party and they have
8:21
Speaker 2: a new uh TPP party. Right it's all three way acronym.
8:27
Speaker 2: And if the KMT and TPP party cannot form a
8:32
Speaker 2: coalition or coordinate their their elections strategies, they might end
8:39
Speaker 2: up losing again just just you know, so allow DPP
8:42
Speaker 2: to win again with like a minority authority of the votes.
8:47
Speaker 2: So that's that's something to be watched. But what what
8:51
Speaker 2: KMT has going for it is it now currently has
8:54
Speaker 2: a very charismatic woman leader as a KMT chairman. She
9:00
Speaker 2: actually traveled to mainland China recently and she publicly said
9:06
Speaker 2: she is there to work to promote cross straight relationship,
9:11
Speaker 2: you know, to to promote peace and stability the Taiwan.
9:14
Speaker 2: If she said, if you really love Taiwan, you should
9:16
Speaker 2: choose peace over war and and and you know, a
9:21
Speaker 2: stability over confrontation. And that's that's something you know, apparently
9:26
Speaker 2: not the playbook of the current Taiwan government. It's it's
9:31
Speaker 2: interesting because Washington also will have to play nice with
9:37
Speaker 2: her because she does have a good chance of winning,
9:40
Speaker 2: uh the election, the coming election. So I mean everything
9:45
Speaker 2: is in flux, nothing is set in stone. You know,
9:47
Speaker 2: remember that all the dramas of American election, you know,
9:51
Speaker 2: before Trump's re election. So so anything can happen. But
9:56
Speaker 2: we'll just have to see, like right now, what we
9:59
Speaker 2: should oh is there's clearly a massive pushback from the
10:05
Speaker 2: Taiwan population on the voter base against the current government.
10:09
Speaker 2: Now the question is whether they can you know, turn
10:12
Speaker 2: that into political power by by you know, forcing at
10:17
Speaker 2: least pushing the opposition parties to work together to have
10:22
Speaker 2: a reaching change on the islands, so that that's still
10:25
Speaker 2: remain to be seen.
10:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is do you
10:29
Speaker 1: see that happening, the two political parties coming together in
10:32
Speaker 1: order to I mean, because at the end of the day,
10:35
Speaker 1: there are two different political parties. I mean, I suspect
10:39
Speaker 1: they know that they split the vote, but they may
10:41
Speaker 1: not necessarily affect the fact that there are two different
10:44
Speaker 1: political parties. I guess that makes sense, meaning yeah, I
10:49
Speaker 1: think yeah, yeah.
10:51
Speaker 2: The problem is with us, with politics everywhere, it's a
10:55
Speaker 2: lot about egos, right, Like all these guys with big egos,
10:59
Speaker 2: they all want to hawk the center of the limelight.
11:03
Speaker 2: None of them want to play second fiddle to the
11:05
Speaker 2: other guy. But if they don't do that, they're gonna lose.
11:10
Speaker 2: I mean, like because you know, it's it's it's just math.
11:15
Speaker 2: You know, if you only if you have like sixty
11:17
Speaker 2: percent of the vote of the opposition vote that split,
11:22
Speaker 2: it's going to allow the the other guy with only
11:26
Speaker 2: forty percent of the vote to win. That's just a
11:28
Speaker 2: simple mathematics, so you know that. But but right right now,
11:31
Speaker 2: I think DPP might might, might not even have that
11:34
Speaker 2: forty percent of the vote lockdown. So so everything's in fluxed.
11:39
Speaker 3: Like I said, yeah, what do you think they're going
11:42
Speaker 3: to do if they get an offense, meaning let's say
11:44
Speaker 3: the Kamet wins and they take over or for that matter,
11:48
Speaker 3: let's maybe even take over the presidency, what would they
11:51
Speaker 3: do different?
11:52
Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean there's not gonna be like a
11:55
Speaker 2: rush to reunification or they on anything like that. But
11:58
Speaker 2: what more likely you will see is a more peaceful
12:03
Speaker 2: crossway relationship in the terms that the government in Taiwan
12:08
Speaker 2: might not go out of its way try to antagonize
12:12
Speaker 2: the government in Beijing to curry favor of Washington, which
12:17
Speaker 2: would make a big difference, because like washing, Beijing is
12:22
Speaker 2: perfectly fine to preserve the status quo as long as
12:27
Speaker 2: a sense, you know, like Taiwan is not going to
12:30
Speaker 2: declare dedure independence. Thai Beiji said time and again that
12:37
Speaker 2: would be the red line, you know, as long as
12:41
Speaker 2: Taiwan government on Taiwan do not cross the red line
12:44
Speaker 2: or flirt with getting really close, you know, like doing
12:48
Speaker 2: the really childish thing of like you know, pointing, put
12:51
Speaker 2: the fingers really close to the face, like the go back,
12:55
Speaker 2: you know, like like this is what the current government
12:58
Speaker 2: is doing right now, the current da garbent. They're doing
13:01
Speaker 2: everything to antagonize China in a way to you know,
13:05
Speaker 2: show show Washington, hey we we are you know, we
13:08
Speaker 2: will do your bedding, your your best stick with us.
13:12
Speaker 2: On the on the other hand, that traditionally that was
13:15
Speaker 2: their way to win votes on the island, to evoke
13:19
Speaker 2: fear like a Chinese UH intervention to so so to
13:24
Speaker 2: to get people to to rally behind them. But that
13:27
Speaker 2: that that strategy is increasingly not working because ultimately people
13:32
Speaker 2: on Taiwan, like people everywhere on Earth, they just want
13:36
Speaker 2: to have better lives. They just want they want their
13:39
Speaker 2: children to be educated, to to have a bright economic future.
13:44
Speaker 2: And right now that that doesn't look unlikely, you know,
13:48
Speaker 2: especially with the United States actively hollowing out Taiwan's pillar industry,
13:54
Speaker 2: which is semiconductors. You know, United States forced Taiwan uh
13:58
Speaker 2: t s MC Taiwans my conductor is to open that
14:01
Speaker 2: plans in Arizona and the whole resk stated reason for
14:06
Speaker 2: that is because we cannot have all our silicons, you know,
14:10
Speaker 2: our semiconductor to be manufacturing in Taiwan, the island just
14:14
Speaker 2: so close to China. Well yeah, what does that mean?
14:19
Speaker 2: It means like, okay, well in case, in case, if
14:21
Speaker 2: China do take over Taiwan, then at least we're gonna
14:24
Speaker 2: have our Arizona plans to produce chips for US. So
14:29
Speaker 2: the United States is already pivoting to its plan B
14:33
Speaker 2: and and and you know, like like people on Taie
14:36
Speaker 2: not stupid that they see the writing on the wall.
14:39
Speaker 1: Mm hm oh, they think they're going to be abandoned.
14:45
Speaker 2: Plans that better make their own accommodation. Now Wei China,
14:51
Speaker 2: you know, while they still have some cards, then hold
14:54
Speaker 2: out until you have no cards, and then you know,
14:56
Speaker 2: then you just accept whatever, like the earlier each u uh,
15:01
Speaker 2: some sort of accommodation or negotiation with China. You know,
15:06
Speaker 2: the more the more more cards they bring to the table,
15:10
Speaker 2: you know, the more value they have if they wait
15:13
Speaker 2: until the US Empire get completely kicked out, like the
15:16
Speaker 2: way the US Empire is currently being physically removed from
15:20
Speaker 2: West Asia. You'll be too late, right because because right
15:24
Speaker 2: like one of the key Iranian demands you know in
15:28
Speaker 2: the MLU was the US withdrew from West Asia. Well
15:32
Speaker 2: Trump didn't want to do that. So Iran is systematically
15:37
Speaker 2: making it happen on the ground by destroying the US
15:40
Speaker 2: bass in the region. Well guess what the same thing
15:42
Speaker 2: could happen in East Asia. China has a lot more
15:45
Speaker 2: missiles then Uranas, so and everybody can can make their
15:49
Speaker 2: own calculators and care.
15:52
Speaker 1: So what China thinks about what's happening in Iran? Have
15:55
Speaker 1: they said anything about this? I mean, as you point out,
15:58
Speaker 1: the United States is being physically moved from West Asia,
16:01
Speaker 1: their equipment is being blown hill there were reports about
16:05
Speaker 1: the US pulling out of Bahrain and Kuwait, and you know,
16:11
Speaker 1: it's even at the ridiculous stage. But the United States
16:15
Speaker 1: generals or or military officials or asking underlings if they
16:20
Speaker 1: have any ideas on how to quote punish Iran because
16:24
Speaker 1: they are apparently out of ideas on what to do
16:26
Speaker 1: with this moment, which is a level of incompetence that
16:30
Speaker 1: is breathtaking. I'm curious China or officials in Chinese said
16:35
Speaker 1: anything about what's taking place in that war.
16:37
Speaker 2: So there there many views about this, right, I mean,
16:40
Speaker 2: like I watched a recent interview with Professor John Meerscheimer.
16:44
Speaker 2: First of all, he said, yeah, like you know this,
16:47
Speaker 2: this Middle East War was a completely disaster. It's a
16:51
Speaker 2: whole premise of the US alliance system West Asia have
16:54
Speaker 2: been systematically destroyed. But when asked about does this also
16:59
Speaker 2: apply to Yeast Asia? Also applied to the US alliance
17:02
Speaker 2: in East Asia? Jump your scharmers answers like, no, that's
17:06
Speaker 2: a different case because all these East Asian nations they
17:11
Speaker 2: just absolutely cannot stand being left alone to deal with China.
17:16
Speaker 2: So that's why they will have to work with the
17:18
Speaker 2: United States. Now that's the same rationale that was said
17:22
Speaker 2: about the Golf States before you wrong war. Okay, that
17:27
Speaker 2: they have no choice, they have nowhere to turn. Who
17:29
Speaker 2: else is going to provide a security mbrawller for them?
17:32
Speaker 2: You know, who is going to protect them from their
17:34
Speaker 2: own people? You know, who is going to keep these
17:36
Speaker 2: monarchies securely in their seats if they you know, because
17:41
Speaker 2: the alternative will be you wrong, and that that's just
17:43
Speaker 2: they couldn't think a bear to think about having to
17:46
Speaker 2: work together with you whoa sometimes you just have to,
17:52
Speaker 2: you know, make the best out of a bad situation.
17:55
Speaker 2: Kuwait has so oil one. I mean, this is an
17:58
Speaker 2: existential issue for them. So I don't I don't you
18:03
Speaker 2: know that way, I disagree with Professor Timer, who have
18:08
Speaker 2: a lot of respect. I think it's the same logic
18:10
Speaker 2: applied to East Asia and and the other decision makers
18:17
Speaker 2: in East Asia, you know, including in Taiwan. They're they're
18:22
Speaker 2: probably also rerunning the calculation in their mind right now
18:26
Speaker 2: on the cost benefit analysis of a lot of continue
18:30
Speaker 2: alliance with the United States.
18:34
Speaker 1: Wow. That basically the fact that Ron is able to
18:37
Speaker 1: challenge the US in this region and make it very
18:40
Speaker 1: clear that these Golf states aren't safe the type it's
18:43
Speaker 1: looking at this and coming to potentially the same conclusion
18:47
Speaker 1: if the US can't defend like meaning, if all of
18:50
Speaker 1: these military bases can't defend the Golf States, well that
18:53
Speaker 1: matter Israel, because the US, one of the general's recently
18:56
Speaker 1: came out saying we can't defend is real. That basically
19:00
Speaker 1: Taiwan is insane both. I mean, do you think the Philippines, Japan,
19:06
Speaker 1: some of these other countries are coming to the same
19:07
Speaker 1: conclusion or not so much. They are.
19:13
Speaker 2: Well, I think Philippines and Japan currently they're having some
19:19
Speaker 2: other issues, like for example, Philippines that they it's their
19:24
Speaker 2: government is also having a big domestic polic tom oil
19:31
Speaker 2: right now, as I mentioned, they have gunfight, literal gunfight
19:34
Speaker 2: in their parliament. So so the government of Philippines actually
19:37
Speaker 2: would like to have a welcoming distraction from all that,
19:42
Speaker 2: the focus on their gunfight in their parliament. Uh So,
19:45
Speaker 2: so in the short term, Philippine and Japan will probably
19:50
Speaker 2: persist on what they have been doing, which is, you know,
19:53
Speaker 2: they're trying to Now they're talking about kind of filling
19:56
Speaker 2: the shoes of US in Asia, but I don't think
20:01
Speaker 2: that's realistic. Long term. Japan's economy is facing some serious
20:06
Speaker 2: economic headwind uh you know, Japanese currency is under pressure.
20:11
Speaker 2: They they they're there. I just don't I just don't
20:19
Speaker 2: see how they can, you know, how how they can
20:22
Speaker 2: pull themselves. Like a lot of people in Washington has
20:25
Speaker 2: this fantasy how you know, we can just kind of
20:28
Speaker 2: off source the work of containing China to countries like
20:32
Speaker 2: Japan to have Japan remolitarized. But Japan's economy is not
20:36
Speaker 2: doing well. It's not Ultimately it's economy stupid. You know,
20:41
Speaker 2: the Japanze economy is not doing well, and they they're
20:44
Speaker 2: not They're nowhere strong enough to come from China on
20:49
Speaker 2: their own, you know, just like Israel cannot come from
20:52
Speaker 2: Iran on its own that it needed United States to
20:55
Speaker 2: come in to expect that somehow Japan and the Philippines
21:00
Speaker 2: and filled the roles of United States containing China. That's
21:03
Speaker 2: that's that's nonsense, that's fantasy.
21:06
Speaker 1: Didn't get it wrong whenever it's something where the Philippines
21:08
Speaker 1: wanted to be a platform for the United States in
21:10
Speaker 1: the region.
21:14
Speaker 2: Sorry, I didn't get no.
21:16
Speaker 1: Get fine, did I read it wrong that the Philippines
21:18
Speaker 1: wanted to be a military platform for the United States
21:21
Speaker 1: in the region, Like basically they wanted to use the
21:23
Speaker 1: Allen as a base former.
21:26
Speaker 2: Well see right right now, you know, Philip Philippines is
21:35
Speaker 2: is that they have They have because their history as
21:38
Speaker 2: an American colony for for the longest time. In some
21:41
Speaker 2: ways there still are American colony and they are uh so,
21:47
Speaker 2: so this is why they served as the role of
21:50
Speaker 2: a lynch pin uh in the in the China containing
21:53
Speaker 2: strategy of the United States, you know, with especially with
21:56
Speaker 2: their president Bumbo Marcos essentially beholden to United States because
22:01
Speaker 2: the US government held the purse string to all the
22:04
Speaker 2: corrupt money, uh that that his dad stashed away in
22:09
Speaker 2: the US in the in the banks and uh and
22:13
Speaker 2: so I mean, yeah, this is why I think in
22:14
Speaker 2: the short term the Philippines and Japan will probably continue
22:18
Speaker 2: along the same path. But it's to no one's I mean,
22:22
Speaker 2: I don't see how that is to their benefit, because
22:26
Speaker 2: what that has led to is increased uh China, Chinese
22:30
Speaker 2: activities in South China Sea, in the East China Sea.
22:35
Speaker 2: Now uh you know, China has increased their patrols of
22:39
Speaker 2: the Chinese Coast Guard on all around the disputed waters
22:43
Speaker 2: and the disputed islands, and there's not not much US
22:47
Speaker 2: did about it, you know. Like like again, China is
22:50
Speaker 2: very quick to slap down the vassal states of the
22:52
Speaker 2: United States to show that look that your big Daddy
22:56
Speaker 2: is not coming to rescue you. You know you are,
23:00
Speaker 2: you are your your your whole assumption about America writing
23:04
Speaker 2: to rescue is wrong. So they will keep on slapping
23:08
Speaker 2: them with those uh uh until until they come to
23:12
Speaker 2: their senses. But but you know, the beijiing might not
23:15
Speaker 2: directly come from the United States, but they will not
23:18
Speaker 2: hesitate to slap around you know, countries like the Philippines
23:22
Speaker 2: or Korea or even Japan.
23:25
Speaker 1: Wow, that's fascinating. It's just, yeah, fascinating. This idea of
23:30
Speaker 1: exporting put you in amount of like the Romans trying
23:34
Speaker 1: to get goals and all of these other groups barbarians
23:38
Speaker 1: into the Roman military because they didn't necessarily have enough
23:41
Speaker 1: to do the job, and obviously they're not going to
23:44
Speaker 1: be the same quality of you know. Yeah, it's just well,
23:47
Speaker 1: the other issue I wanted to he was Panama. I
23:50
Speaker 1: was fascinated by the secret as it's being called, secret
23:54
Speaker 1: deal China and Panama effectively made, and I didn't There
23:58
Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff apparently taking place of out
24:00
Speaker 1: of at shot correctly if I'm wrong. Apparently China was
24:05
Speaker 1: let's say, holding up Panama flag boats when they came
24:10
Speaker 1: into port and they would have inspections and everything else,
24:13
Speaker 1: basically making them take far more time, which created financial
24:19
Speaker 1: pressures on any boat that was labeled Panama, up to
24:22
Speaker 1: the point where boats stopped labeling themselves as Panamanian boats.
24:27
Speaker 1: This was China's way of putting pressure on Panama to
24:30
Speaker 1: make a deal, because Trump was trying to effectively force
24:33
Speaker 1: a Chinese company, or let's say, a Hong Kong based
24:35
Speaker 1: company out of contention in the Panamanian Canal. Correct me
24:42
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong on any of that. I was fascinated
24:44
Speaker 1: by it. Yeah, I mean, I.
24:45
Speaker 2: Mean, like the Hotchinson WOGPLA is a Hong Kong based
24:49
Speaker 2: company that operated the two ports on either side of
24:52
Speaker 2: the Panama Canal since the nineteen nineties, you know, four
24:56
Speaker 2: or thirty years. While was throughout the whole time, the
25:00
Speaker 2: comes in the United States is crying this all Chinese
25:03
Speaker 2: have a choco that on us. They're going to choke
25:05
Speaker 2: off our emergency supplot through the Panama Canal. Like like
25:09
Speaker 2: every accusation is a confession, right like like everything they
25:13
Speaker 2: wanted to do China, they're blaming China. China. You know,
25:17
Speaker 2: China now can do that to us. It's so unfair.
25:19
Speaker 2: So so it's the Trump finally light enough on the
25:22
Speaker 2: Panamanian government to get them to cancel their contract with
25:28
Speaker 2: the with the Chinese company, which isn't just signed recently,
25:31
Speaker 2: just just recently renewed. So as a retaliation, China has
25:36
Speaker 2: kind of you know, they're they're putting uh the kabash
25:40
Speaker 2: on China. The Panamanian flag ships coming to the China
25:43
Speaker 2: sports okay, like Chinese ports is the busiest ports in
25:48
Speaker 2: the world. Like, and then there is Panama derived a
25:53
Speaker 2: good chunk of revenue, you know, having those flags flag
25:58
Speaker 2: as a Panamanian UH vessels. So so you're right, You're
26:02
Speaker 2: exactly right China. Like I said, China would not directly
26:07
Speaker 2: come from the United States if they have to, unless
26:09
Speaker 2: they have to, but they will never hesitate to slap
26:13
Speaker 2: down any country who is willing to be like the
26:17
Speaker 2: proxy of the United States. Uh, you know, whether there
26:20
Speaker 2: will be Philippines, Korea, Japan, Panama, China will slap you around,
26:25
Speaker 2: you know for for you know, if you volunteer to
26:28
Speaker 2: be that role. You know, China will will will let
26:30
Speaker 2: you know what are the consequences. So so then the
26:33
Speaker 2: Panama finally is luckily under pressure and they come to
26:38
Speaker 2: they're coming around. This is going to happen more and
26:41
Speaker 2: more frequently around the world, by the way, I know.
26:45
Speaker 1: But this is really well, I mean, and I haven't
26:48
Speaker 1: seen too many people pick up the story and the
26:50
Speaker 1: implications of the story meaning what it means is that
26:53
Speaker 1: China making people make a choice. Hey, you can accept
26:58
Speaker 1: what the US is doing or you can follow.
27:02
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's let's not China making the US
27:05
Speaker 2: to make it. It's a US that force these countries.
27:09
Speaker 2: But but now China said, okay, you know what you are.
27:12
Speaker 2: You know what. You chose a side. You chose a side.
27:15
Speaker 2: So you need to understand the consequences of choosing the
27:20
Speaker 2: opposite side, right like, we we are okay with you,
27:24
Speaker 2: you know, playing both sides. We're okay with that. But
27:27
Speaker 2: you have to choose a side. Now, you have to
27:29
Speaker 2: understand the consequence of your actions. Here it is and
27:33
Speaker 2: and they're gonna portray that English language medias, you know,
27:37
Speaker 2: the increasingly aggressive China. You know, song it around. Well,
27:41
Speaker 2: you are right, you know that's that's a new world.
27:44
Speaker 2: That's that's that's what you're gonna You have to understand
27:48
Speaker 2: the China will push back, China will slap you around.
27:50
Speaker 2: And you know, how about just like, don't kiss off China.
27:54
Speaker 2: This is very simple. You don't have to volunteer to
27:57
Speaker 2: be the foot soldier of the United States to go
28:00
Speaker 2: against China. You just like because if you do, there
28:04
Speaker 2: will be consequences.
28:07
Speaker 1: Well, that's gonna be wild when the China and the
28:10
Speaker 1: US are This is like somebody in the middle with
28:15
Speaker 1: two sides pulling, basically a two superpowers pulling on individuals
28:20
Speaker 1: or roofs that are within the context of one side.
28:22
Speaker 1: And you point out China's fine with you playing both sides.
28:24
Speaker 1: They're not fine with you choosing a side at their expense.
28:28
Speaker 1: And I'm curious this is.
28:30
Speaker 2: Gonna when that when the elephant fights, the grass will
28:34
Speaker 2: be trampled. Don't be grass pretty much?
28:37
Speaker 1: You know, pretty much Panama's grass. There's gonna be a
28:40
Speaker 1: lot of grass between these two pulling. Yeah, there would
28:46
Speaker 1: be a lot of grass. I'm curious on how this
28:48
Speaker 1: is going to look from the standpoint of sanctions. I mean,
28:51
Speaker 1: the US is talking about third party quote bone crushing sanctions. Now,
28:57
Speaker 1: who knows. I doubt this is going to pass, which
29:02
Speaker 1: least that Trump was gonna be okay with this passing
29:05
Speaker 1: considering the consequence instead of going.
29:06
Speaker 2: To be this is like Trump winning the yearan Ward
29:13
Speaker 2: the forty eighth time. You know, like, it's not it's
29:17
Speaker 2: not It's gonna have the same result as the first
29:20
Speaker 2: tear of trade war. Trump already lost that one. If
29:23
Speaker 2: he starts again, he will lose again. I mean, like
29:25
Speaker 2: it's nothing is gonna change because because this is a
29:30
Speaker 2: fundamental power balance changed. China still hold all the cards.
29:34
Speaker 2: China still make make all the cards. So I mean
29:37
Speaker 2: like they can huff and puff all they want, uh
29:42
Speaker 2: you know, and trying to understand that. This is why,
29:44
Speaker 2: you know, China, you know, it's not really respond to
29:48
Speaker 2: to US threat unless they make real on their uh
29:52
Speaker 2: you know, on their threat threat. You know, US huff
29:55
Speaker 2: and puff. China mostly just ignore all that noise U.
30:00
Speaker 2: But but if they do slap sanctions, China will play a
30:03
Speaker 2: tip for tad game. You know, we've been there before,
30:06
Speaker 2: and you know, China is not afraid to throw, you know,
30:10
Speaker 2: throw his hands down.
30:12
Speaker 1: From sample of the Panamanian issue just before just the
30:18
Speaker 1: close its off that company, the Hong Kong Company, just
30:21
Speaker 1: to be clear, it's back working with the Panamanian Canal,
30:27
Speaker 1: but meaning their they're holdings that like the fact that
30:30
Speaker 1: Panama tried to get rid of them. That is now
30:32
Speaker 1: over with the deal between Panama and Hong Kong Company
30:35
Speaker 1: that is, by the way, has not been outed, have
30:38
Speaker 1: they explained what the deal consists of or are they
30:41
Speaker 1: just back to what they were before?
30:43
Speaker 2: I mean everything, I think everything is still in flux.
30:47
Speaker 2: But you know, China needed to sit an example. I
30:50
Speaker 2: mean Panama just happened to volunteer to be that exactly.
30:53
Speaker 2: China needed to use Panama as an example, serve Panama
30:58
Speaker 2: as an example to any other countries that even thinking
31:02
Speaker 2: about doing the US bidding to go against the Chinese interest, right,
31:06
Speaker 2: I mean, like this is a this is a Chinese
31:09
Speaker 2: phrase UDM is called saksige whole kind killing the chicken
31:13
Speaker 2: to frighten the monkey. You know, for the Panama it
31:16
Speaker 2: happened to be the chicken is for the other monkeys
31:20
Speaker 2: out there to understand, this is will be your consequences
31:24
Speaker 2: if you you know, if you do this.
31:27
Speaker 1: One of the other issues that took place over the
31:29
Speaker 1: weekend was Japan's parentcy. I'm not going to say it
31:33
Speaker 1: was in free fall, but the US and Japan seemed
31:36
Speaker 1: like they needed to intervene in order to bolster the Japanese. Yeah,
31:41
Speaker 1: they ended up buying trillions of yea in order to
31:45
Speaker 1: up The US ends up buying a lot of it,
31:47
Speaker 1: but they bought it in euros, and so people were
31:50
Speaker 1: believing that, okay, Japan is fallowing apart economically. What went
31:56
Speaker 1: on with that? I mean, just.
31:59
Speaker 2: So so there's there's this whole pounds these game, this
32:02
Speaker 2: is this is a carry trade. So for decades, Japanese
32:05
Speaker 2: after because United States slap Japan with Plaza Accord, that
32:11
Speaker 2: blow up, that ended up blowing up the Japanese acid
32:17
Speaker 2: bubble in the early nineties. So Japanese government printed a
32:21
Speaker 2: lot of money. And that's the result of that. That
32:23
Speaker 2: Japanese government kept like the interests very low, right, so
32:27
Speaker 2: they don't have to pay a lot of interest on
32:30
Speaker 2: their their their government debt. And a lot of these
32:34
Speaker 2: Wall Street slickers say, hey, this is a great arbitrage opportunity.
32:38
Speaker 2: We can borrow ship pounds in Japanese yen playing low
32:41
Speaker 2: interest rate, and then we buy high yielding asset like
32:45
Speaker 2: American bonds or American stock stocks, and then we just
32:49
Speaker 2: see the difference. You know, this is a this is easy,
32:54
Speaker 2: risk free. Well, yeah, that trade works until the the
33:01
Speaker 2: Japanese rad hikes starts start coming in. And and that
33:06
Speaker 2: is why the American government had to intervene. Because the
33:09
Speaker 2: unwinding of the Carria which for decades means Japanese savings
33:16
Speaker 2: were propping up the American properties, American stock market, American
33:22
Speaker 2: bounds market that's threatened to unwind. You know, that's gonna
33:27
Speaker 2: have catastrophic consequences. You know, put potentially pop the AI
33:34
Speaker 2: bubble that's that's building up. This is why American government
33:37
Speaker 2: had to set step in to coordinate with the Bank
33:39
Speaker 2: of Japan and to assure the public. No, no, no,
33:42
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's not gonna that's that's that's everything
33:45
Speaker 2: is fine. You can't only do that maybe, you know,
33:51
Speaker 2: for for for a short period of time. You know,
33:53
Speaker 2: this is not sustainable. Eventually everything is going to blow up,
33:58
Speaker 2: like we we are just right now. All we're doing
34:02
Speaker 2: is just prolonging this kind of the asset bubble that's
34:08
Speaker 2: building up. But when it's doing on winds, it's going
34:11
Speaker 2: to be catch a strapt liffic.
34:15
Speaker 1: And this is what we're looking at, the unwinding. Yeah, oh,
34:22
Speaker 1: I think I froze for a bit. I'm sorry, And
34:24
Speaker 1: this is what we're looking at, the unwinding. Basically, this
34:27
Speaker 1: bubble that was created coming out. I mean a lot
34:31
Speaker 1: of people were making the point of saying that this
34:33
Speaker 1: had more to do with US dollars. Basically that in
34:36
Speaker 1: order for Japan to do this, they would have effectively
34:39
Speaker 1: sold dollars or treasuries, which would have damaged the US economy.
34:43
Speaker 1: So the United States gets involved using euros in order
34:46
Speaker 1: to prop up the currency.
34:50
Speaker 2: Yeah that too, that too, I mean too that everything
34:55
Speaker 2: everything is tied together right now. This is why you know,
35:00
Speaker 2: Scott Besson has to has to step in because he
35:03
Speaker 2: was a currency trader. Scott Besson was the currency trader.
35:06
Speaker 2: He understood the risks. But you know, like he's he's
35:09
Speaker 2: just prolonging the inevitable. Uh, you know, they cannot they
35:13
Speaker 2: cannot pop pop this bubble up forever.
35:16
Speaker 1: And just be clear, Japan holds more US currencies than,
35:21
Speaker 1: I mean more treasury bills than pretty much any other
35:23
Speaker 1: country including Chine.
35:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, China used to be number one, but China decided,
35:29
Speaker 2: you know, what's the point of US uh holding all
35:33
Speaker 2: this paper io us that United States even would not
35:36
Speaker 2: allow us to use to buy any US asset that
35:40
Speaker 2: we actually want to buy, So we might as well
35:43
Speaker 2: recycle our dollar surpluses to global south country building infrastructure
35:48
Speaker 2: there allowed them to buy more Chinese products, you know, more, more,
35:51
Speaker 2: higher return. That way, this is why you know the
35:54
Speaker 2: Chinese treasury US treasury holding has fallen by half, uh,
35:58
Speaker 2: you know, from all time high one point for trillion.
36:01
Speaker 2: Now it's less than I don't know, seven hundred billion
36:04
Speaker 2: or six hundred billion, you know, and that's continually go down.
36:09
Speaker 2: But what China is buying a lot though, is gold.
36:13
Speaker 2: The Chinese Central Bank has been been buying a lot
36:15
Speaker 2: of gold.
36:16
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I mean, I guess the question is why,
36:22
Speaker 1: I mean, are they having an expectation that something that's
36:24
Speaker 1: going to all apart or this is just out of
36:28
Speaker 1: precaution or this is just out of that wanting a
36:30
Speaker 1: whole US treat.
36:33
Speaker 2: Well, gold is what you want to have in the
36:36
Speaker 2: time of crisis.
36:38
Speaker 1: By the way, from Russia has been the same thing.
36:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's that I mean, ideally, you know,
36:45
Speaker 2: you don't you want to have you want to hold
36:48
Speaker 2: an acid. That's that's that's generating value rather than you know,
36:53
Speaker 2: your gold is something you dig out of the ground
36:55
Speaker 2: and you put back in the ground, you know, back
36:57
Speaker 2: back in the vality. But it but in times of crisis, Yeah,
37:03
Speaker 2: it's what is the intrinsic value of its own.
37:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's China considering this the time of crisis.
37:10
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, China is certainly preparing for any potential crisis.
37:14
Speaker 1: That's brilliant.
37:15
Speaker 2: That's that's why they have been doing fairly well in
37:18
Speaker 2: the current Trador Homost crisis because they have stockpiled ship
37:23
Speaker 2: tons of oil at one point for tull and barrels
37:26
Speaker 2: and and they're better prepared than anybody. And yeah, China
37:31
Speaker 2: is definitely preparing for any possible crisis.
37:34
Speaker 1: Potential crisis apparents about something. It is China started to
37:38
Speaker 1: refill their callers from all of that they were using
37:41
Speaker 1: during the war.
37:43
Speaker 2: Uh No, I mean like they still to refill their
37:48
Speaker 2: their Uh you know, they haven't even significantly drawn on
37:53
Speaker 2: you know, not that we know of. I mean maybe
37:57
Speaker 2: maybe that's because China has some secret crude inventory somewhere
38:00
Speaker 2: else people are not aware of. But uh, you know,
38:04
Speaker 2: so far, China has come back on oil imports and
38:08
Speaker 2: you know, they have not sign if it can purchase
38:11
Speaker 2: and they haven't died coming back in a big way
38:15
Speaker 2: into the oil market to buy more right now, So
38:19
Speaker 2: I think China is good. For a while, they realized,
38:21
Speaker 2: you know what they they they're good. They're good for now.
38:25
Speaker 1: I guess em curious us why in China? But and
38:29
Speaker 1: I understand countries are cynical entities, they're work in their
38:32
Speaker 1: own interests. But if China butt more now, it would
38:36
Speaker 1: push the oil price up that much higher. The fact
38:39
Speaker 1: that they haven't done that has effectively allowed the oil
38:42
Speaker 1: prices to remain.
38:43
Speaker 2: With Jamar, jamar, jamar uh. You know the smart, simple,
38:49
Speaker 2: smart business practice is buy low, sell high, right, That's
38:54
Speaker 2: what China did. They for the last two years. The
38:57
Speaker 2: oil price was low, so they bought a lot, and
38:59
Speaker 2: now the oil price is high. They are like, Okay,
39:01
Speaker 2: we're not buying wings high. We're having that oil, right,
39:06
Speaker 2: So what's the point for me to to to chase
39:08
Speaker 2: that the price increase. That's ridiculous.
39:12
Speaker 1: No, I do get it. I mean that makes sense.
39:15
Speaker 1: Like I said, countries of cymical entities, they're working their
39:17
Speaker 1: own interests. It's not I will have curious as to all.
39:20
Speaker 1: I'm just curious as to why the basically pressure on
39:27
Speaker 1: in the US in the context of war.
39:31
Speaker 2: No c c mark. It's because just because US work
39:35
Speaker 2: for this kind of zero sum mentality doesn't mean China's mentality, right,
39:41
Speaker 2: China's concern is how to work for the best interest
39:45
Speaker 2: in China. The best interest in China is buy low,
39:47
Speaker 2: sell high. It's very simple. It's very simple business practice.
39:51
Speaker 2: Buy low, sell high. You don't buy when something is
39:54
Speaker 2: at all time high. You wait for the price to
39:56
Speaker 2: come down.
39:57
Speaker 1: No, I get it, that's true. That's true. Called before
40:01
Speaker 1: I let you leave. Is there anything that is going
40:03
Speaker 1: on in the area that we haven't in the West
40:06
Speaker 1: been paying all the much attention to? That is important?
40:09
Speaker 1: I mean I saw the rocket launches and the catches
40:11
Speaker 1: kind of like the we used to rocket thing. I
40:15
Speaker 1: saw that. But is there anything else that I might
40:17
Speaker 1: be missing that I just haven't seen because it hasn't
40:19
Speaker 1: popped up in our media.
40:22
Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's also the Chinese AI to keep
40:26
Speaker 2: on coming with new open source models. That's really creating
40:30
Speaker 2: a panic in US right now. You know, for first
40:35
Speaker 2: first it came out with deep Seek, and then there
40:38
Speaker 2: was Zai, and now there was Moonshot. I mean, like now,
40:42
Speaker 2: like China has, they're coming out with new like AI
40:47
Speaker 2: models every few months, and they're doing it a whole
40:50
Speaker 2: lot cheaper than American models. And it turns out a
40:54
Speaker 2: lot of American companies are adopting the Chinese models. That's
40:57
Speaker 2: why they're talking about banning use of Chinese Ahi model
41:01
Speaker 2: in the United States, which I think I don't think that,
41:04
Speaker 2: you know, that would be self defeating even if they
41:10
Speaker 2: if they if they do that, it just means look, look,
41:14
Speaker 2: if they do that, it just means the rest of
41:18
Speaker 2: the world will do the Chinese model while the US
41:21
Speaker 2: have to stick with more expensive close model. Right the way,
41:28
Speaker 2: like what happened to the car? Yes, like what happened
41:30
Speaker 2: with a car? So you know you're gonna increasingly Americans
41:33
Speaker 2: is gonna have to pay more for less, you know,
41:37
Speaker 2: you have to. It's like with the car You're you're
41:40
Speaker 2: paying You're paying a whole lot of console money for
41:43
Speaker 2: these American cars that has a lot is less reliable
41:48
Speaker 2: and with less amenities. And then the Chinese Chinese models
41:53
Speaker 2: just because national security supposedly and yeah, and I what
41:59
Speaker 2: what what's really happening is US will eventually be left behind.
42:03
Speaker 2: You know, they're they're building a wall around themselves. The
42:07
Speaker 2: you know, the common talking ports before was China was
42:10
Speaker 2: building a wall around itself. So I am Bamboo curtain
42:13
Speaker 2: right the Cold War rhere, but right now is US
42:17
Speaker 2: is trying to wall yourself off because you can no
42:20
Speaker 2: longer compete, You can no longer compete with trying to
42:23
Speaker 2: head on in the in a global marketplace. So so
42:27
Speaker 2: they're they're they're dismantling, uh you know the you like
42:32
Speaker 2: not now. They don't don't talk about globalization anymore because
42:36
Speaker 2: they realize, okay, that that doesn't work for us.
42:39
Speaker 1: We can't compete, which is what it boils out to.
42:42
Speaker 1: We can't compete, and we're insecure about the inability to compete. No,
42:47
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. We're adp C four right the less I saw,
42:50
Speaker 1: I thought it was a version four that just came out.
42:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and just I mean, I just I just
43:00
Speaker 2: don't see how how United States will be able to
43:04
Speaker 2: to to compete with that, because they're they're running on
43:06
Speaker 2: fundamentally different models. Like I said that in the US,
43:13
Speaker 2: whether Open AI or anthropics, their business model is literally
43:19
Speaker 2: to make them so ubiquitous that you have to use
43:24
Speaker 2: their product and then they will be able to colleck
43:27
Speaker 2: a toll on every aspect of American life. But if
43:32
Speaker 2: people have access to much, much cheaper Chinese models, that
43:37
Speaker 2: ruins the whole business model. They cannot maintain the monopoly,
43:40
Speaker 2: and that that's what they needed in order to, you know,
43:44
Speaker 2: eventually turn a profit. Right like, hundreds of billions of
43:49
Speaker 2: dollars has already piled in.
43:51
Speaker 1: Also, you can buy and own dcs right like, this
43:54
Speaker 1: is not like a token model where you have to
43:56
Speaker 1: continuously put off information about your company and stuff like that.
44:00
Speaker 1: In the Chinese open source model, you own them or
44:03
Speaker 1: getting it wrong.
44:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can install, you can take the
44:07
Speaker 2: deep seek host down your local environment, you know, and
44:11
Speaker 2: then that way you can keep your data within your company.
44:15
Speaker 2: You're like, in a lot of ways, that's your trade secret.
44:18
Speaker 2: You don't want to give it away to freaking open
44:22
Speaker 2: eye or or or or anthropics for free. You know,
44:26
Speaker 2: you're paying them to give away your company's trade secret.
44:29
Speaker 1: Right.
44:30
Speaker 2: A lot of companies don't like that. This is why
44:33
Speaker 2: you know they are turning into the open source source models.
44:37
Speaker 2: So but again that destroys the whole business model of
44:40
Speaker 2: open air and athropics.
44:43
Speaker 1: Carl, you are absolutely right. We have an AI bubble
44:46
Speaker 1: in the US and that may be the thing that
44:48
Speaker 1: actually pops in so we can ended on that. Carl,
44:53
Speaker 1: you have my thanks as always, you are a great guests.
44:59
Speaker 1: Audience loves you. I love talking to you. Your knowledge
45:02
Speaker 1: of that region of the world. It's bar none. You
45:05
Speaker 1: have my first man college job. He is host of
45:09
Speaker 1: Silk and Steel podcasts. Yes, I have to put on
45:11
Speaker 1: the glasses and of the vision sucks. Carllege Job's hosts
45:14
Speaker 1: of Silk and Steel podcast focused on China surrounding regions, history,
45:18
Speaker 1: culture and politics. You can follow Carl on Twitter at
45:21
Speaker 1: Carl Jah. You can follow the podcast on Twitter at Steel,
45:25
Speaker 1: Silk and the Letter in and you can subscribe to
45:27
Speaker 1: support that podcast on Patreon dot com, slash Silk and
45:30
Speaker 1: steal call. What where are you now? In regards to
45:34
Speaker 1: going through.
45:38
Speaker 2: My pocket, Okay, I thought no, no, no, I just
45:41
Speaker 2: met you by the way, That is cool.
45:47
Speaker 1: That is badass though I'm in Shanghai. Yeah, but here
45:51
Speaker 1: are you?
45:53
Speaker 2: I mean the year two o seven BC in the
45:57
Speaker 2: Chinese history at the time when the Qin dynasty that
46:01
Speaker 2: just unified China has broke, has been overthrown. So now
46:05
Speaker 2: it's wide open. The field is wide open. But this
46:10
Speaker 2: will eventually lead to a series of wars and civil
46:14
Speaker 2: wars that will lead to the founding of Han dynasty.
46:16
Speaker 2: So that's that's where I am at my current narrative
46:20
Speaker 2: retelling of the Chinese history. And then I like to
46:24
Speaker 2: make a note of that. You know, there's the founder
46:27
Speaker 2: of the Han dynasty. At the time that he overthrow
46:30
Speaker 2: the Chin dynasty, he was fifty years old. You know,
46:33
Speaker 2: he's almost fifty years old, which is my age. So
46:36
Speaker 2: my advice for everybody is never too late to start.
46:40
Speaker 2: You still have a chance of China. You're almost fifty
46:46
Speaker 2: years old and never gave up.
46:49
Speaker 1: He's only two years older than I am, well, one
46:53
Speaker 1: year old.
46:54
Speaker 2: Still still time for you, Still time for you, and.
46:57
Speaker 1: Never give up. Plug away. What'm the dream is, Carl Man,
47:02
Speaker 1: thank you for this. We be sack. Okay, I have a
47:04
Speaker 1: good night.
47:04
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, ye okay.
47:07
Speaker 1: Shut out to Carl and god man, that