Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (2/3)

Transcript

Talks to James Lark about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (2/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. Hamster with a blunt penknife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Quicker Welcome to A Hamster with a Blunt Penknife, a Doctor
• 0:43
  Who commentary podcast. I am James Lark sitting in this
• 0:47
  seat, this commentary seat, metaphorical commentary seat.
• 0:51
  Because it's not a real seat, Joe doesn't mail a seat around.
• 0:54
  That would be a very inefficient way of running a podcast, No?
• 0:57
  I brought my own seat to this, but but nevertheless, in a
• 1:00
  metaphorical sense. I'm sitting in this seat for the
• 1:02
  first time, and possibly after this introduction the last time.
• 1:06
  With me? You did tell me to make it up as
• 1:10
  I went along and that's what I did.
• 1:12
  Congratulate What the hell do you think the budget is for this
• 1:15
  podcast? Mail a seat to everybody.
• 1:19
  Metaphorical, see. I'll start doing it.
• 1:21
  I'll start doing it. I did send you a picture though,
• 1:23
  didn't I? You did send me a picture and
• 1:24
  that went straight on my wall. A lovely picture of Crote on the
• 1:27
  Cyberman. Marvelous.
• 1:29
  Well, Jack, why are we here today?
• 1:31
  What are we doing? We are doing a commentary on
• 1:33
  Delta and the Bannermen, one of the one of the many high points
• 1:37
  of Sylvester Mccoy's era in Doctor Who, which is itself a
• 1:42
  high point of Doctor Who. And I'm going to, we've talked
• 1:46
  about how sort of maligned it was at the time and I will say
• 1:51
  unjustly maligned. I think you could say this is
• 1:54
  objectively a good piece of television.
• 1:58
  Yeah, on no grounds. Could you say it was not a good
• 2:04
  piece of television? And I also think it's a really
• 2:10
  interesting, entertaining piece of television, which good
• 2:14
  television isn't always those things.
• 2:17
  So I think it's not only aspiring to a kind of greatness
• 2:22
  within a very kind of small set of parameters, you know,
• 2:28
  knowingly small set of parameters.
• 2:29
  It's it's being quite ambitious, but it's also succeeding in
• 2:32
  being a cracking good watch. Is this the first story all done
• 2:38
  on location since the Sontarian experiment?
• 2:40
  It is, isn't it? Well, it's not all done on the
• 2:43
  location though, because there was a scene in the TARDIS.
• 2:48
  Oh, of course. But they filmed that during one
• 2:52
  of the Dragon fire recordings. Oh, OK.
• 2:56
  And that's. But you're right.
• 2:57
  So this is all the this is John Nathan Turner's great idea,
• 3:00
  wasn't it, to to split the genius location work and the
• 3:04
  studio work into two different stories?
• 3:07
  And it absolutely reaps dividends because we get stories
• 3:10
  like survival that we get, We get stories like ghost, like you
• 3:14
  know, that's the the the flip side of those two two
• 3:18
  arrangements, isn't it? You've got a script to say
• 3:21
  that's strong enough to play to the strengths of both an all
• 3:23
  location story and an all studio story.
• 3:26
  Those are too great. I mean, I think Cursive Henrik's
• 3:28
  probably the best all location story of the year.
• 3:31
  Yeah, although that one wasn't meant to be your location.
• 3:33
  That's one of the ones that's one of the studios with location
• 3:36
  work where they suddenly go actually look, we've got this
• 3:38
  location. Can we make it work all in
• 3:40
  location? So But again would that have
• 3:43
  would that have happened if they hadn't had two years experience
• 3:46
  of making stuff all on location and worked out how to how to
• 3:49
  make that work? I don't think so so.
• 3:51
  I don't think so. I well, because it's all.
• 3:53
  Paying forward until. You said this is the learning
• 3:55
  curve season, isn't it? There figuring out what works
• 3:57
  and what doesn't, very entertainingly so.
• 4:01
  But I think it's smooth for in 25 and then it's really smooth
• 4:04
  in 26. It is.
• 4:06
  In terms of the learning curve, though.
• 4:09
  I don't think any of the rest of this season comes close to Delta
• 4:13
  in the battle, and for just the confident way in which it just
• 4:17
  does it and makes it look pretty effortless.
• 4:20
  You know how Doctor Who tends to sort of pick at things that are
• 4:23
  in the in the zeitgeist at the site that are popular.
• 4:27
  So was was genocide popular at the time?
• 4:29
  Was there? There are lots of.
• 4:31
  In the 80s. Satellites in space highly high.
• 4:36
  Was there lots of things set in holiday camps?
• 4:38
  No, I think the story is. Figure out where it all comes
• 4:42
  from. I don't know where it all comes
• 4:43
  from and it and some of it is obviously a throwback, like
• 4:47
  they've gone. Let's make one set in the 50s
• 4:49
  because they know that the BBC can do, period.
• 4:53
  And it works beautifully. So nostalgia for kind of 50s
• 4:58
  holiday camps. Yeah, that wasn't in the
• 5:00
  zeitgeist. Like I say, Heidi High was more
• 5:01
  of a a 70s sitcom, wasn't it? And it was probably was it still
• 5:05
  running in 87? If if it was, it was only just.
• 5:09
  It was on its way out, yeah. But so no, it's not.
• 5:13
  This is not ahead of the curve in terms of its frames of
• 5:15
  reference, but in terms of what it chooses to bun together.
• 5:19
  I would say it's very progressive.
• 5:22
  Yeah, I mean it. It's a disparate mix of elements
• 5:25
  that somehow it all blends together really, really well it.
• 5:28
  Does work, doesn't it? Yeah, well, shall we pop along
• 5:31
  into Episode 2 and see what it has to offer?
• 5:34
  Have we make our own way yet? We haven't have.
• 5:36
  We we haven't no another treat to come.
• 5:38
  OK, well, I'll count as in this time then, because you introed
• 5:41
  us in 54321. Off we go, exploding stars.
• 5:50
  And these graphics haven't aged badly, have they?
• 5:53
  Oh, I don't think. So or is that just is that just
• 5:55
  my heart saying that I I feel like apart from those rocks
• 5:58
  which always looks a little bit dodgy to me, I think the the
• 6:02
  TARDIS in a bubble is still absolutely great.
• 6:05
  The way that sort of cloud comes towards you and then we go sort
• 6:08
  of over over the top of it. It's got depth to it, hasn't it?
• 6:11
  It's got absolute 3D Ness. It's more 3D than dimensions in
• 6:16
  time. I will point out that Janet
• 6:18
  Fielding, Annika Wills and Sarah Sutton were deeply unimpressed
• 6:21
  with the both the music and the title sequence.
• 6:24
  But I'll also well, I'll also point out that Janet Fielding is
• 6:27
  generally unimpressed with anything to do with.
• 6:29
  Pretty much anything, yeah. It's not uncommon.
• 6:32
  I always feel for them when they're watching stuff for the
• 6:34
  first time in that Those behind the sofa features though,
• 6:36
  because they're clearly not watching the whole episode, No,
• 6:38
  because they don't have the money to do that, so it must
• 6:40
  just be baffling for them, really.
• 6:42
  They're having to form a judgement, you know, on
• 6:45
  something that they can't really listen to properly because
• 6:47
  they're talking through it. When some of their critiques are
• 6:49
  plot boys that they haven't seen.
• 6:51
  Yeah, absolutely. They're like, oh, that doesn't
• 6:52
  make sense. It's not fair on the story and
• 6:54
  it's not fair on them. Yeah.
• 6:58
  Oh, I can't believe his shoes smoke in a minute.
• 7:02
  This is a great this is a great ready made set as well.
• 7:07
  The shelves and apparently the the toweling and bedding was all
• 7:10
  on them already. Just gives.
• 7:12
  It a depth of field and. Malcolm Cole's target
• 7:16
  novelisation. I haven't, actually.
• 7:18
  Oh, OK, I I'll just Did you know the famous line from that?
• 7:21
  The misprint? No.
• 7:23
  Oh, so he's supposed to say the Doctor was peering over the
• 7:26
  shelf and it says he was peeing over the shelf.
• 7:30
  Unfortunately, that's a bit of an infamous line.
• 7:34
  Now, last episode we brought you, So that's called his
• 7:36
  prostate form. Now he's peeing, peeing over the
• 7:39
  shelf. So clearly all his is back
• 7:42
  back-to-back to rights with the prostate.
• 7:45
  Oh, this is so sweet. She's worth nothing for you.
• 7:47
  Let her go. I love that.
• 7:49
  I love their faces. Look at their their eyes.
• 7:53
  It's a it's a instantly gorgeous dynamic they have.
• 7:57
  Look at how Gaffrox lit there from below and.
• 8:01
  Then we get some comedy shoes. Yeah, that's I mean.
• 8:06
  CBBC, isn't it? Boy, there's a few bits in this.
• 8:09
  There are a little bit, I mean that puppet that came out with a
• 8:11
  man's thumb and it was a bit of CBBC as well.
• 8:16
  The baby's good, I think. I don't know why people are down
• 8:18
  on the baby and look, she's got a slightly green Sheen and she's
• 8:21
  got green spots in her dress. I do know it's quite subtle.
• 8:25
  I bet that baby. Made Princess.
• 8:26
  I bet it made a bloody racket, all those hydraulics.
• 8:31
  Is it hydraulics or is some? Is someone sticking their hand
• 8:34
  up inside it? How she's sitting on a bench.
• 8:37
  Well, yeah, but it could be. There are all sorts of
• 8:40
  theatrical tricks like no, OK, I can now see from the from the
• 8:43
  long angle it's it's definitely a hydraulic.
• 8:45
  Deal. This is the they probably.
• 8:46
  Reuse those for the cast in Survival, didn't they?
• 8:48
  That fade into the morning, it's just again, it's something of
• 8:52
  the sort of thing we haven't seen for a long time.
• 8:54
  And also then cutting to a character we haven't met before,
• 8:59
  beekeeping in a in a different location feels like proper
• 9:03
  drama. And it's just great because it's
• 9:05
  2 characters that are lovely and another character that are
• 9:08
  lovely coming together. It's just lovely.
• 9:10
  In a nice car. Good morning.
• 9:13
  What a beautiful morning. It's.
• 9:15
  Just such a good looking. I mean, what a what a great
• 9:18
  location. Yeah, they should shoot in Wales
• 9:20
  more. Often, you know they should.
• 9:26
  It's so this is Barry Island, isn't it?
• 9:31
  Yeah, Is that. That's where they shot Gavin and
• 9:33
  Stacey, isn't it? That's where I know that knows
• 9:34
  from. Right, so Barry Island is also
• 9:37
  where all of the scrapped railway locomotives went to when
• 9:43
  British Rail or British Railways as they were then, decided to
• 9:46
  get rid of steam and introduce diesels and what were they
• 9:50
  called? The the Wood Wood.
• 9:52
  Woodford Brothers baby decided to buy up all of the railway
• 9:57
  engines for scrap metal, took them all to Barry Island and
• 10:02
  fortunately before they could break up the they they started
• 10:06
  with the rolling stock first. Sorry, Doctor Who fans, We'll.
• 10:08
  Get back now. Go on, go on.
• 10:10
  Before breaking up all the the railway engines, the
• 10:12
  locomotives, they broke up the the rolling stock, the carriages
• 10:15
  and trucks for metal. So when people realized that
• 10:19
  these old locomotives were there and could be bought back, they
• 10:23
  were still there and and they served to do that.
• 10:25
  So the the reason that Heritage Railways can run trains that are
• 10:29
  whole lot of locomotives that's that actually used to to do it
• 10:33
  is purely because one company bought the whole lot up and put
• 10:37
  them on Barry Island. I was just seeing a fantastic
• 10:41
  Doctor Who story set in, You know, decayed trains in a
• 10:44
  massive. Space be there for that.
• 10:46
  Wouldn't it be great? Why?
• 10:47
  Have they never done that? There's nothing to sit on
• 10:50
  trains, if you ask me. And I love going on a steam
• 10:53
  train as well. There's one that goes from
• 10:55
  Yorkshire right through to Whitby Bay.
• 10:57
  Oh, gorgeous. Best journey?
• 10:59
  That baby's changed a bit. The baby goes to some quite
• 11:04
  considerable changes in this episode, and I'm not sure it's
• 11:07
  quite sells it. I'm not sure that costume quite
• 11:10
  sells it as the same baby, if I'm honest.
• 11:13
  No. Nice motorbike.
• 11:14
  Very nice. Can I offer a slight criticism
• 11:17
  of Delta and the band of men? I I think the actress who plays
• 11:21
  Delta is a little wooden. I do believe the chemistry
• 11:26
  between the two. I do think it's it's nicely
• 11:29
  played between them. But the way she delivers her
• 11:31
  life, she's doing sort of Doctor Who.
• 11:33
  I am an alien acting. I agree it's a choice.
• 11:38
  I'm not sure it quite works next to Bonnie Langford, even though
• 11:44
  Ronnie's now pitching her before.
• 11:45
  I think she's seen herself on television by this stage.
• 11:48
  Yeah, what am I doing? OK, I don't need to do quite so
• 11:50
  much. So she's pitching it just right,
• 11:52
  I think, for Doctor Who companion.
• 11:53
  But the problem is when you've got someone being very wooden
• 11:56
  next to you, even even though if it had been filmed differently,
• 12:00
  more, more, more in close up, I think it could have worked.
• 12:02
  But it's not quite the right choice for there's a.
• 12:05
  Coldness. To her, there's not a lot of
• 12:07
  warmth. Oh no, I love this look.
• 12:09
  Me, me, me, me. Good morning.
• 12:13
  Let's start with a song. It'll just keep going.
• 12:17
  No, I should, yes. When the red Red Robin comes,
• 12:21
  Bob, Bob Bob in along along. Now look, that scene has got
• 12:28
  nothing to do with plot at all. But it's beautiful.
• 12:32
  It's beautifully played. It's so authentically naff
• 12:35
  holiday camp he does. So it was so plot, though,
• 12:38
  doesn't he? Because he's like, no, Mr.
• 12:40
  Burton, I'm not going. I'm staying with you.
• 12:42
  But that scene is enough to kind of establish him as that
• 12:44
  character, the second in command who doesn't want to leave the
• 12:46
  camp. It's the me, me, me.
• 12:49
  And he even. Gets a joke.
• 12:50
  When they're running for the bus and he's the last one, isn't he,
• 12:53
  with his suitcase trying to get on the bus to get away?
• 12:58
  He was ionized I. Think you're right.
• 13:02
  She does struggle with the accent a bit.
• 13:06
  A few space only known to Billy and me.
• 13:09
  So they say they were knocked up.
• 13:11
  They spent the whole night on the floor of that.
• 13:13
  I'd be pretty cranky if I'd if I'd woken up after a night on
• 13:17
  the floor of a a laundry. You know what I love, though, is
• 13:20
  how Mel knows immediately who the Banner Men are.
• 13:23
  So there's an unseen Doctor Who adventure featuring Mel and the
• 13:26
  Banner Men out there somewhere. How big Finish haven't made?
• 13:28
  That is astonishing. Don't put ideas in their head.
• 13:32
  No, no, no, no. Oh, look at that.
• 13:35
  What a lovely location. It's so beautiful.
• 13:39
  They just picked. They just picked.
• 13:41
  I think that's another reason why Bonnie didn't need to be so
• 13:45
  disappointed by this. It's such a good looking show.
• 13:49
  Oh, this is the scene that Doctor Who fans point at.
• 13:52
  You know, all the, you know, shall we have space buns and tea
• 13:56
  or don't they drink tea on Mars? Yeah, I.
• 13:58
  Love it. I love how seriously he's
• 14:01
  playing it. He he's getting a really
• 14:03
  realistic response to an absurd situation.
• 14:06
  He gets to be the comedy hero. I think that's great.
• 14:14
  Oh, although something does happen.
• 14:16
  Is he a Welshman? I don't think he is.
• 14:18
  And do you know why I don't think he is?
• 14:20
  Because he has a line on location later when he's outside
• 14:23
  the TARDIS and he hasn't got. Speaking Welsh now, I think he
• 14:26
  is Welsh. Oh, OK, well then I'm mishearing
• 14:29
  things. So is this where now they're
• 14:33
  going to use the TARDIS to persuade him?
• 14:35
  That's. That does happen a lot in the
• 14:37
  80s, doesn't it I. Would say that would be my.
• 14:39
  I mean, fortunately it's one scene rather than Black Orchid
• 14:43
  Part 2. But it's a cop house, isn't it?
• 14:47
  Wow James, I've just remembered you get one of the best ever Mel
• 14:50
  scenes in this, don't you? When the bus goes up.
• 14:53
  You do. You really do.
• 14:55
  I can't wait and. That's cold.
• 14:56
  That's like, I mean the How many people die in this season?
• 15:01
  This comedy doesn't take itself seriously Seasoned, yeah?
• 15:05
  It's got a It's got a pretty nasty body.
• 15:08
  Everybody on Smartos, absolutely.
• 15:11
  Everyone. Yeah.
• 15:12
  Yeah. There must be about 30 people on
• 15:16
  the screen there. It's a huge cut that and they
• 15:20
  were there in a lot of scenes in episode one.
• 15:23
  That would be me there. What's the rush?
• 15:25
  It's noise here. Oh yeah, they did a good job
• 15:30
  there. Everyone's dashing around now.
• 15:33
  This is a really lovely tracking shot as well.
• 15:38
  He really knows how to move his camera, doesn't he?
• 15:41
  There's a lot of variety in where he places it.
• 15:43
  Now he moves and where he starts it and who he follows.
• 15:47
  Oh, it gets to be really grave now, doesn't he?
• 15:49
  Very serious. And they were they they shot it
• 15:57
  at the right time of the year as well.
• 15:59
  Like it's sunny and and it looks really cheerful.
• 16:03
  Bonnie Langford, now wearing Mel's best costume.
• 16:07
  Double denim and a neckerchief as well.
• 16:13
  Although I like all this. I do kind of wish this was the
• 16:15
  Doctor of Mel going around on the bike.
• 16:18
  It feels a bit wrong, doesn't it, That they're trying out a
• 16:23
  companion, I guess. Although to be fair, we've
• 16:26
  already seen photographs of male and shooting on a motorbike, so
• 16:29
  we get there. She gets on the motorbike in the
• 16:32
  end and she actually gets to drive it, doesn't she?
• 16:36
  And it's red. It's ginger.
• 16:42
  I love that he's got up and put on his tie.
• 16:44
  He knows there's an alien invasion happening, but got to
• 16:48
  be smart for. Got a man here from the Ministry
• 16:51
  of Defence. Now look sharp, will you?
• 16:55
  Thank you, Vinnie. But you will all have to go.
• 17:00
  Oh, and Vinnie looks so sad. Oh, and the rest of those
• 17:04
  extras, they're doing a bit of acting as well.
• 17:06
  Oh, baby's going again, girl making chiming sound.
• 17:11
  I do, but I do like the costume, which is based on the the sort
• 17:14
  of the hexagons of beehive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:20
  Is that supposed to be a costume, though?
• 17:22
  Did they dress the baby in the middle of the night?
• 17:24
  Is that what we're? Supposed to Well, yeah, they're
• 17:29
  doing their best. Yeah, it doesn't quite work.
• 17:32
  I don't think the baby's crying. Quite works.
• 17:34
  I think it's it's one thing that they haven't quite managed to
• 17:38
  sell, but it's a big idea though, isn't it?
• 17:40
  You see this scenery here, all this sort of roubling here while
• 17:43
  I live at the South Downs, right on the South Downs.
• 17:45
  And there's nothing fireder than spending a day just going on a
• 17:48
  ramble out somewhere like that. Oh, this is the sad thing about
• 17:55
  doing this this way is we can't hear the music.
• 17:57
  There's a lot. Oh.
• 17:58
  I'm actually here, so he's doing proper, kind of got some 50
• 18:03
  sacks going on in the background there.
• 18:05
  You know what my favorite thing is?
• 18:07
  Where it goes. That's that's a theme tune,
• 18:13
  isn't it? To a radio show.
• 18:15
  It's got a kind of 30s radio feel to it.
• 18:17
  I I'm I'm afraid, I wish you know I should have done some
• 18:21
  music research before doing this.
• 18:23
  Shame on you of all people. I know, I know.
• 18:27
  But you're right. It's a great choice.
• 18:28
  It it works. And it's just kind of tongue in
• 18:30
  cheek enough to at this at that point but this all of this kind
• 18:34
  of going for the kind of major key only Kev McCullough could
• 18:37
  have done it like this and it and it totally works, works for
• 18:40
  the story. I think for a story like this
• 18:42
  you've got to go for it. If you don't then it would feel
• 18:46
  all a little half hearted. Absolutely commit to the 50s,
• 18:49
  Ness. Commit to the kind of up tempo
• 18:51
  craziness of it. Like Mar Marks hates that you
• 18:54
  know the at the end. I would.
• 18:59
  Love it. Perfect.
• 19:00
  It's perfect for this story. You wouldn't want it every week.
• 19:02
  But I will be singing at that point.
• 19:04
  I just need to warn you about that.
• 19:07
  Listeners, you have been warned. No, You or Ben.
• 19:09
  Not them. They're used to it.
• 19:15
  Oh look, finally the the Doctors meet in these characters.
• 19:17
  Do you get to meet the wrong way?
• 19:20
  Have you seen? Oh no.
• 19:20
  No, no. Oh, so those characters met the
• 19:22
  Sorry, no, grommary has still not been incorporated properly
• 19:25
  yet. What on earth?
• 19:27
  What do you think if you were sitting there having a nice
• 19:28
  picnic of your own? Ralph, a fellow with a question
• 19:31
  mark umbrella, came up and said. Have you seen a girl with a
• 19:33
  polka dot dress and past it? I don't know.
• 19:36
  I've been on picnics where I've met some pretty odd people.
• 19:38
  I think you just take it in your stride.
• 19:40
  Really. We'll talk off Mike.
• 19:45
  Mel doesn't know too much about crystallized structures, but
• 19:48
  that looks about cooked. Now it does.
• 19:49
  Look about cooked. Oh, and did you?
• 19:53
  I'm sure you knew this, but this bit in a minute with the the sax
• 19:57
  coming, It's a riff on the Doctor Who theme, isn't it?
• 20:00
  It's a rock'n'roll version of the Doctor Who theme.
• 20:02
  I'm. Going to have to listen out for
• 20:03
  that. Fact that.
• 20:05
  At the moment, he's just kind of he's just shifting key every
• 20:08
  time music kicks back in. It's true.
• 20:10
  Ought to sound ridiculous, but it's got to kind of bravado that
• 20:14
  makes it work again. I can.
• 20:17
  I get that if you are a Dudley Simpson fan and you just kind of
• 20:22
  feel like this had badly betrayed you.
• 20:24
  There's a place for Dudley Well of.
• 20:26
  Course there is, but. Interestingly you you mentioned
• 20:31
  Roy Scammell earlier. They asked one of the other
• 20:34
  members of Havoc to do stunts for this as well.
• 20:37
  And. He refused on the grounds that
• 20:40
  he thought the show was to camp these days.
• 20:42
  He didn't want to be any part of it.
• 20:43
  They didn't take yourself seriously.
• 20:45
  Well, if he didn't like camp, he probably made a a wise decision.
• 20:48
  Would have had an unpleasant time watching this.
• 20:50
  James I love a bear camp. Of course I do.
• 20:54
  I love this. They're just dashing, right?
• 20:58
  The Balaman Wall fleets here, we've got to go.
• 21:01
  I mean, she's been a little bit irresponsible sitting having a
• 21:04
  romantic picnic when she knows there's a price on her head.
• 21:08
  Yeah, but look at him. I mean, you would, wouldn't you?
• 21:10
  He's been ionized. You ought to get that Prince on
• 21:14
  AT shirt. It probably is all oh.
• 21:16
  No, here we go. And you get all the fellows on
• 21:21
  the side of the road with their guns and you're shooting at the
• 21:24
  motorbike. Yeah.
• 21:28
  Why do people like fun? I don't understand.
• 21:36
  That's not a bad effect really, is it?
• 21:38
  You talk about the spaceship now.
• 21:39
  I'm talking about the spaceship. They get better at doing that,
• 21:42
  but. I'll tell you what, there's a
• 21:44
  sequence here now where the Batterman fleet come up to what
• 21:49
  these two characters called. Hold caller, please.
• 21:55
  Wise, Miller. Wise Miller and talk.
• 21:58
  That's it. It's Wise Miller, isn't it?
• 22:00
  Yeah. And they start blowing things up
• 22:02
  and there's some pretty spectacular explosions going on.
• 22:04
  Yeah, well that's the other thing they absolutely, I mean
• 22:07
  that this is you get the impression that health and
• 22:12
  safety hadn't quite caught up to the Doctor Who team by this by
• 22:16
  this point and. James got so bad.
• 22:19
  Sort of Dallas. I thought there was a terrorist
• 22:21
  attack in London. I know.
• 22:25
  They are brilliant explosions, the explosions in remembrance.
• 22:28
  You don't see, you don't see those on telly anymore.
• 22:31
  No, I know. Well, it's all CG now, isn't it?
• 22:34
  That is true. They fake it up, but have you
• 22:37
  seen the Babel colour tributes to the McCoy years on YouTube?
• 22:41
  I haven't. I will send you the link because
• 22:44
  not only does it feature loads of great seas, he does a
• 22:47
  succession of explosions. Well, it just looks like the
• 22:50
  most exciting telly you're ever going to see.
• 22:53
  I mean it is. Which it is.
• 22:54
  I well, don't look, I I like this confrontation.
• 22:57
  I I like these two Americans. Just.
• 23:01
  Where is he? Your Uncle Sam?
• 23:03
  It's. Comical.
• 23:04
  So it's what they're doing is hard.
• 23:06
  Again, it's harder than it looks.
• 23:07
  They're doing a a comedy scene with real jeopardy as well and
• 23:11
  and season 24 is constantly dallying with that, like with
• 23:14
  doing quite silly things, but with death somewhere hidden
• 23:18
  underneath it. And sometimes it just feels a
• 23:21
  bit wrong. I feel like in Dragon Fire, when
• 23:23
  they kill all those people in a comedy way, it's just well.
• 23:26
  And it's sort of the cleaners murdering people in Paradise
• 23:30
  Towers and then like the old woman's fluffy slipper sticking
• 23:33
  out the back. Totally.
• 23:35
  It's just. Totally.
• 23:36
  Yeah, exactly. And it's and it's not grim
• 23:39
  enough, but it's not funny enough.
• 23:41
  What works here is the conflict of the two sides, the the
• 23:45
  loveliest group of characters you're ever going to meet, and
• 23:47
  these complete assholes coming in to murder everybody.
• 23:51
  It works it. It does work.
• 23:53
  It's a bit of a shame they couldn't couldn't blow up the
• 23:55
  bus, but they wanted to keep it for greater show in the Galaxy
• 23:57
  didn't. They now now lying to Gavrock.
• 24:00
  She's great here and look at the look at how he's shooting her.
• 24:06
  I don't mean Gavrock shooting her.
• 24:07
  I mean look at how Chris Cluff has chosen to shoot her.
• 24:10
  It's it's a really, really good two way shot.
• 24:13
  And another heroic moment for Burton as well.
• 24:22
  Listen to the music now. Now look at their tongue.
• 24:25
  So apparently they they came up with that they were eating
• 24:28
  licorice boot laces or something and so the red mouth wasn't a
• 24:31
  make up decision it was just this the cast going can we can
• 24:35
  we do a a nasty smile with our red mouths?
• 24:38
  Well, they've got to be as loathsome as possible, don't
• 24:40
  they? It's great.
• 24:41
  Did you see the the sea and the lighthouse behind them there as
• 24:45
  the thing was coming? It just looks lovely, yeah.
• 24:50
  Keep her as a hostage, she's much more useful to you alive.
• 24:55
  Sorry. Forgive me.
• 24:56
  Anyone Welsh listening? I'm so sorry.
• 25:00
  It's all right. They've they've already put up
• 25:01
  with Ray's accent, so. Of course, they would go back to
• 25:04
  save Mel and burn as well. This is it.
• 25:06
  Lovely. But you're right.
• 25:08
  That's the first time McCoy gets a big confrontation.
• 25:14
  This all feel I mean McCoy gloriously for the reasons that
• 25:19
  I already expressed. He does a lot of kind of
• 25:22
  wandering around the countryside in various stories and it just
• 25:25
  feels so right. Doctor Who is at home in the
• 25:28
  kind of in the in the British countryside do.
• 25:30
  You remember that bit in Silver Nemesis where it's just the
• 25:33
  M&A's whistling through the fields whistling.
• 25:35
  I think it's great. That's.
• 25:36
  Gorgeous. You.
• 25:37
  Must have gone wandering there if you're if, if that's your
• 25:40
  neck of the woods, isn't it? Yeah, what?
• 25:42
  Arundel. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 25:44
  There's some lots of lovely antique shops in Arundel.
• 25:49
  It's well worth a visit. And there's another bit as well,
• 25:52
  I swear, where they're just lying on a hill, listening to
• 25:54
  jazz, lying. On a hill listening to jazz.
• 25:55
  But isn't that that? You just can't see the 6th
• 26:00
  Doctor and Perry doing that, can you?
• 26:02
  No, always in such a hurry. Oh, this is great.
• 26:08
  A grown boy. Don't ask no questions at all.
• 26:10
  He's like, oh, hello, I'm a bit of honey there.
• 26:12
  He cares. Who do you think Romney is?
• 26:13
  Because there are various fan theories about.
• 26:16
  Well, I mean, it's just a wink. It's obviously in there.
• 26:18
  He's Anita Dobson. Of course he is.
• 26:21
  That's right. No.
• 26:25
  Well, there seems to be a suggestion that he's a Time
• 26:27
  Lord. They certainly that's a reality.
• 26:30
  There's a kind of, but maybe he's just maybe he's just Welsh
• 26:34
  because they are very hospitable.
• 26:37
  It's almost inviting you not to take this seriously.
• 26:39
  It goes. Have you got a broom handle and
• 26:41
  a cushion cover I can take? I like that.
• 26:47
  His line to say he's going to look off the most bike is I'll
• 26:49
  treat it like I treat the TARDIS.
• 26:51
  If you knew Billy how he treated the TARDIS, you would not part
• 26:55
  with your motorcycle quite so willingly.
• 26:57
  Somehow the make up on Gavrock's hands is even ghastlier than the
• 27:02
  meat is holding. And that's realist.
• 27:05
  I assume he wasn't eating a real pork chop, but it's realistic.
• 27:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, can't they do detail it and
• 27:13
  like the archive or something like that?
• 27:14
  What it is, and it is real meat, but it's got something nestled
• 27:17
  inside that he can eat, but at one point he spits it out,
• 27:22
  doesn't he? There we go and it.
• 27:30
  Look at his hands. Your.
• 27:31
  Charm is only matched by a McCoy absolutely nailing it.
• 27:35
  This is a pivotal scene, I think, in the development of his
• 27:38
  Doctor. At least I was present as and
• 27:44
  actually the way almost under place the last time.
• 27:47
  Actually, I may have gone a little bit too far and.
• 27:52
  It's the first of of several cliffhangers where he just
• 27:55
  slightly dilutes the jeopardy by an understated comedy moment.
• 28:04
  But I I do find Gavrock like a genuine threat in a way that I
• 28:09
  never did. Richard Bryant's in Paradise.
• 28:11
  Tower, Absolutely. You know, and as much as I love
• 28:15
  her, I never did K Omar and he's got around.
• 28:17
  It he's got a glint of the real psychopath in his eyes, and you
• 28:24
  and you, he's he's already delivered the impression of
• 28:27
  someone who he's shown that he's someone who's not.
• 28:29
  He's not going to think twice about killing someone.
• 28:32
  So you feel like the Doctor's been, although he's been
• 28:35
  impressive here, and you feel like he's in control.
• 28:37
  He's got a bravery, an immediate bravery.
• 28:42
  And he's just like he's got a burning look in his eyes.
• 28:44
  McCoy, when he's pissed. How?
• 28:48
  Do you think, is he going to get away with it?
• 28:51
  I still. I don't think it's his best
• 28:53
  confrontation, though. I still think that's him and
• 28:56
  Sheila Hancock in Happiness Patrol at the end.
• 29:01
  Yes, I think that's that's probably right.
• 29:03
  But again, we're looking at, you know, this is his third story
• 29:05
  in. I think that's a really
• 29:07
  impressively mature moment for for someone who was clearly,
• 29:11
  from what he said, still finding his feet.
• 29:13
  And essentially you compare it to Colin, 3 storeys in.
• 29:16
  That's Vengers of Varos. Think of him up on the
• 29:20
  scaffolding and he's delivering that speech about Varos.
• 29:23
  But it's all very theatrical, isn't it?
• 29:26
  Mccoy's much more contained. He's like, he knows he's in TV,
• 29:29
  you know? I think, I think it's where his
• 29:32
  experience doing all of those TV programs, you know Jigsaw and
• 29:38
  Tis was the other one. All of that actually, you know
• 29:41
  for all of that looks like very kind of slapstick stuff.
• 29:44
  Learning to play, to pitch it to the TV camera is it was quite a
• 29:49
  skill and it's it's, it's very different art.
• 29:52
  It's what. But Hartner always used to say
• 29:54
  to Peter Purves, isn't it? It's like T VS small.
• 29:56
  It's small. Keep your chest as small.
• 30:00
  McCoy gets that. And that's the thing about it.
• 30:03
  It was wonderful. The thing about McCoy is he he
• 30:05
  he gives the impression of being very wild and all over the place
• 30:08
  and slightly out of control. But actually it's a very
• 30:11
  self-contained performance and his movements are very a very
• 30:17
  judged, carefully judged. I mean, it's no surprise that
• 30:20
  his one of his heroes is Buster Keaton, because you absolutely
• 30:23
  see the the similarity, but the physical control, the ability to
• 30:27
  go full on crazy and to and to, you know, do things at the
• 30:32
  apparent expense of your own safety without worrying about
• 30:35
  it, but also the just the smallest movements in the eyes.
• 30:39
  What do you think is Mccoy's best performance?
• 30:47
  I think it's probably ghost like.
• 30:50
  I would agree. Most.
• 30:52
  I think that's his most nuanced performance.
• 30:55
  But I do. Find things to say about a lot
• 30:57
  of them. I think the story that plays
• 30:59
  into his talent the best is great show at the Galaxy.
• 31:04
  Absolutely, because that's just a normal performance.
• 31:06
  Performance at the end, doesn't it?
• 31:08
  Yeah, all of his tricks and. How the Doctor could have walked
• 31:13
  out of that tent and not flinched.
• 31:14
  It's what other person, what other human being could have
• 31:17
  done that? Again, that's, I mean, Buster
• 31:19
  Keaton is the answer that's that is pure Keaton, that moment.
• 31:23
  What they need to do with McCoy, and it's actually something that
• 31:26
  Big Finish frequently forget. It's just I think his weakness
• 31:29
  is when he does sort of blazing anger.
• 31:32
  He can't sell blazing anger. So he's screaming you know, let
• 31:36
  this be our last battlefield. And if we die like animals and
• 31:40
  all of it, I just, I never buy him when he's doing that sort of
• 31:43
  thing. But but but righteous
• 31:44
  indignation, certain, you know, barely controlled rage, like at
• 31:49
  the end of that episode, he does really brilliantly well, that
• 31:52
  went the way he says the word life.
• 31:55
  Yeah, yeah, he's wonderful, isn't he?
• 31:59
  He is, I think. I think there's something a kind
• 32:02
  of alchemy that is. And I always, I feel sad for
• 32:07
  Colin Baker when I think too hard about, you know, what
• 32:10
  happened going into this season. And I always feel a bit, kind of
• 32:15
  a bit like I'm betraying an actor who I also have a lot of
• 32:19
  time for. And I've I will always rush to
• 32:22
  the defense of Colin Baker. I'm I'm glad that McCoy took
• 32:25
  over when he did because I just feel that he he suits this
• 32:28
  version of the show so perfectly.
• 32:30
  I actually think Colin's more impressive because he managed to
• 32:33
  find so many moments of charm and humour that wasn't there.
• 32:37
  In spite of the material he was. And that and that.
• 32:41
  He had that just that brilliant renaissance on audio afterwards
• 32:46
  where he could properly show what he could do.
• 32:48
  And and and and. Fortunately the column we know
• 32:51
  now is a is a much more well-rounded performance because
• 32:55
  he's been given the opportunity to do that.
• 32:56
  But I but I would I but I I still watch attack on the
• 32:59
  sidemen with with admiration. You know, I I feel that that has
• 33:02
  a kind of energy to it as well that is also very impressive for
• 33:05
  the for the circumstances he was under.
• 33:07
  Oh, you better not listen to the season 22 strictly come Hamster
• 33:10
  coming out next week. Then a little spoiler.
• 33:15
  Well, look, James, I'm having an enormous amount of fun here.
• 33:18
  We should probably. Everybody's having fun.
• 33:20
  Anyone not having fun with this story is is not a not a real
• 33:24
  person. We I want to know you.
• 33:25
  All right. No, we do.
• 33:27
  Every opinion's valid. But shall we head on to the
• 33:31
  climax of this fabulous story? We absolutely must.