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#424 Maggie Freleng with Odelia and Nerissa Quewezance · Wrongful Conviction

0:05
Speaker 1: On February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety three, police were called
0:09
Speaker 1: to a house in a remote area in Saskatchewan, Canada.
0:13
Speaker 1: They arrived to a horrific and bloody scene. Seventy year
0:18
Speaker 1: old Joseph Dolph was lying face down on his bedroom
0:21
Speaker 1: floor dead. He had been beaten and stabbed multiple times.
0:26
Speaker 1: The house was in shambles and there had obviously been
0:29
Speaker 1: a violent struggle that morning. O'delia and Nerissa Cusance and
0:34
Speaker 1: their cousin Jason Kashane were picked up by police. The
0:38
Speaker 1: sisters were held at the station for five days and
0:41
Speaker 1: questioned repeatedly without counsel.
0:45
Speaker 2: These were two young Indigenous women trying to cope with
0:49
Speaker 2: police officers. White police officers, all male.
0:53
Speaker 1: The interrogations were not recorded, and after days of questioning,
0:57
Speaker 1: both women signed statements admitting to taking part in the killing, and.
1:03
Speaker 2: On the basis of those unrecorded statements that the police
1:07
Speaker 2: alleged they gave. After a trial before a jud John,
1:11
Speaker 2: of course, not surprisingly in all white jury, they were
1:15
Speaker 2: convicted the following year.
1:19
Speaker 1: From LoVa for good this is wrongful conviction with Maggie
1:21
Speaker 1: Freeling today Odelia and Narissa Cusance o'dellia, Narissa Cusants are
1:41
Speaker 1: sisters born two years apart and members of the Salto
1:45
Speaker 1: First Nation. They grew up on the Keiscous Reserve in Saskatchewan, Canada,
1:50
Speaker 1: along with an older brother and three other sisters.
1:54
Speaker 3: And growing up in Kiscoose. We all were called the
1:58
Speaker 3: village kids. We lived in a village.
2:01
Speaker 1: This is Odelia, the older of the two, born in
2:04
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two.
2:06
Speaker 3: Me and Narissa did not have our mother involved in
2:10
Speaker 3: our life, but our father was involved in till the
2:14
Speaker 3: day he passed. He was always there for us.
2:19
Speaker 4: I never actually knew my mother, but my dad was.
2:22
Speaker 4: He was the best thing for me.
2:25
Speaker 1: And that's Narissa. The sisters have always been close and
2:29
Speaker 1: both girls adored their father.
2:32
Speaker 3: He was.
2:33
Speaker 4: He was quite a big man. I guess he's six
2:34
Speaker 4: footy three.
2:36
Speaker 5: He was.
2:36
Speaker 4: He's really into sports. He's a hockey player himself, a
2:39
Speaker 4: basketball player, and he used to be coached on a
2:43
Speaker 4: team on a reserve. I mean, we didn't have nothing
2:46
Speaker 4: to eat or no power, you know, as long as
2:48
Speaker 4: he was there, and that's that's what mattered to me.
2:53
Speaker 3: He did his best. He wasn't perfect. Nobody's perfect.
3:03
Speaker 1: Life for the girls growing up was rough, Canada's Indigenous
3:07
Speaker 1: populations have long faced systemic racism, poverty, violence, and substance
3:12
Speaker 1: addiction were rampant on the reserve where they lived.
3:17
Speaker 3: Seeing people relatives trying to commit suicide, being babysat while
3:24
Speaker 3: our father trusted someone, and then having a relative commit
3:28
Speaker 3: suicide shoot himself.
3:30
Speaker 6: And we were.
3:31
Speaker 5: Little kids getting put.
3:32
Speaker 3: In a pat and you know it's we had a
3:35
Speaker 3: tough life.
3:37
Speaker 1: But the cues On siblings looked out for each other.
3:39
Speaker 1: Odelia especially tried to protect her younger sisters.
3:44
Speaker 3: I love my sisters, and I remember times where we
3:49
Speaker 3: did go hungry. We always used to tell each other
3:52
Speaker 3: to stay, you know, be strong, be strong.
3:55
Speaker 5: Sometimes times it was tough.
3:58
Speaker 1: Like generations of family members before them, Odelia and Nourissa
4:02
Speaker 1: were sent away to residential schools at a very young age, like.
4:08
Speaker 3: My dad couldn't raise all of us kids on his own,
4:10
Speaker 3: And then we were sent to our grandparents and then
4:13
Speaker 3: to the residential schools. We went to the Bread Boarding School,
4:17
Speaker 3: and and there's one called Maraval Boarding School that we
4:20
Speaker 3: went to on Cows's first nation. You know, we were
4:23
Speaker 3: as saying it was only eight and I don't even know,
4:25
Speaker 3: I was so young when I went, and all I
4:28
Speaker 3: remember is loneliness.
4:34
Speaker 1: Canada's Indian residential school system, as it was called, was
4:38
Speaker 1: established in the eighteen seventies with the goal of assimilating
4:42
Speaker 1: indigenous children into white society. The schools were run by Catholic, Anglican, Methodist,
4:48
Speaker 1: and Presbyterian churches. For children like Odelia Nourissa, who had
4:52
Speaker 1: grown up surrounded by extended family and tribal elders on
4:56
Speaker 1: the reserve, being dropped into a Christian school education system
5:00
Speaker 1: was total culture shock.
5:03
Speaker 3: They take away your esteemed, they take away everything because
5:07
Speaker 3: it's like it's an institution and you know, all a
5:11
Speaker 3: bunch of young kids that are you know, were just
5:13
Speaker 3: children being being told to get up at certain time
5:17
Speaker 3: in the morning, going to church, going doing all this stuff.
5:20
Speaker 1: In your kid students were forced to sing and pray
5:24
Speaker 1: in Latin while their own cultural and spiritual beliefs were
5:29
Speaker 1: stifled or beaten out of them. For those who didn't conform,
5:33
Speaker 1: punishment was swift and harsh.
5:36
Speaker 3: And I remember though, like one time wanting to go
5:38
Speaker 3: to the bathroom and you know, I got put in
5:41
Speaker 3: the middle of the dorm hat to nail for hours.
5:44
Speaker 3: You know, as a child I used to, you know,
5:46
Speaker 3: like eight seven years old, wanting to wishing to die.
5:50
Speaker 5: That's terrible. Well who do you turn to, you know?
5:55
Speaker 5: But we survived it. We survived it.
5:58
Speaker 1: Many survivors of the resident school system recall being severely
6:02
Speaker 1: beaten and repeatedly sexually assaulted by supervisors and then nearissa.
6:08
Speaker 7: I think I've read that you actually you have like
6:11
Speaker 7: a spine problem with your back because of what happened
6:14
Speaker 7: to you at residential school.
6:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, from trauma from my body is not wasn't quite developed,
6:21
Speaker 4: so my bones are kind of whatever.
6:24
Speaker 7: And that's from being attacked at the school, from being beaten, like.
6:30
Speaker 4: Every blows to my body. It wasn't formed or I guess.
6:35
Speaker 4: I remember even as a child, I used to wonder
6:37
Speaker 4: why God was so mean? Now took a kid.
6:45
Speaker 1: The last of these schools was closed in nineteen ninety six,
6:49
Speaker 1: but not before generations of Indigenous children had been permanently scarred,
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Speaker 1: both physically and emotionally by their treatment. This arguably contributed
6:59
Speaker 1: to the system disenfranchisement of Indigenous people in Canada, creating
7:04
Speaker 1: a highly vulnerable population.
7:18
Speaker 6: How old were y'all when you left the school and
7:21
Speaker 6: how did you get out?
7:21
Speaker 1: Of there.
7:23
Speaker 3: My mother passed died when I was fourteen, and I
7:27
Speaker 3: think I don't know how fifteen when I left boarding school.
7:31
Speaker 1: Ohdelia dropped out of school and moved to Edmonton to
7:34
Speaker 1: live with family.
7:35
Speaker 3: There.
7:35
Speaker 1: She continued to try to look out for her little sister,
7:38
Speaker 1: but Nourissa was still having a hard time at school,
7:41
Speaker 1: and she'd been getting into trouble with the law starting
7:44
Speaker 1: at age thirteen.
7:47
Speaker 6: What did you go to prison for the first time?
7:50
Speaker 4: First time was I was the young a founder me
7:53
Speaker 4: for a stolen vehicle and that's where it escalated. There
7:57
Speaker 4: was nothing violence. I never had any violence on my
7:59
Speaker 4: record this till my adult charge.
8:02
Speaker 1: Her time spent in prison started Noriissa on the road
8:05
Speaker 1: to alcohol and hard drugs at a young age.
8:09
Speaker 4: I never was introduced that till I went to prison.
8:12
Speaker 4: Like sure, I used to smoke to odd joints once
8:15
Speaker 4: in a while, but like take the odd pill. You know,
8:18
Speaker 4: I became an addict in prison.
8:23
Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety three, O'delia was twenty one and Norissa
8:26
Speaker 1: was eighteen. They had both moved back to the Keyscous
8:30
Speaker 1: Reserve and were living with their sisters Orlina and her
8:33
Speaker 1: husband and kids. Their fifteen year old cousin, Jason Kashane,
8:37
Speaker 1: lived across the road. On the night of February twenty fourth,
8:42
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Jason stole fifteen tablets of the drug
8:47
Speaker 1: Restoral from his grandma. He Odelia, and Norissa all took
8:51
Speaker 1: the sedative, which is used to treat insomnia. It can
8:55
Speaker 1: cause severe drowsiness and went combined with alcohol periodic blackouts.
9:01
Speaker 1: Later that evening, Jason called an acquaintance, seventy year old
9:05
Speaker 1: Joseph Dolph, to come and pick them up. Dolf had
9:09
Speaker 1: worked as a maintenance man at Saint Philip's, one of
9:11
Speaker 1: the residential schools they had attended. He was known to
9:15
Speaker 1: regularly invite young Indigenous women and girls to his home.
9:20
Speaker 1: That night, Dolf wanted to party and they all got
9:23
Speaker 1: in his car.
9:24
Speaker 2: He picked them up brought them to his fairly remote
9:28
Speaker 2: home in Comsuck, Saskatchewan. I fact was very remote, and
9:33
Speaker 2: provided them with beer and whiskey. This is James Lockyer,
9:38
Speaker 2: I'm Innocents Canada's Council for the Cuzan's Sisters, Adealer of Nursa.
9:44
Speaker 1: With the restaurant already in their systems, the sisters became
9:48
Speaker 1: more and more inebriated. Later, they would have a hard
9:51
Speaker 1: time remembering everything that occurred that night. Jason later testified
9:56
Speaker 1: that Dolf and Odelia left to go get beer. When
9:59
Speaker 1: they returned, they all continued drinking, finishing off a large
10:03
Speaker 1: bottle of whiskey Dolf provided, and it seemed he had
10:06
Speaker 1: an agenda.
10:08
Speaker 2: And during the course of the evening, Dolf tried to
10:12
Speaker 2: persuade Adelia.
10:13
Speaker 8: And Nerissa to have sex with him.
10:16
Speaker 2: They refused and it led to some dispute between them.
10:20
Speaker 1: Around one o'clock in the morning, they persuaded Dolf to
10:23
Speaker 1: drive them all home, and.
10:25
Speaker 2: On the way home, Dolf realized that he had three
10:28
Speaker 2: hundred dollars missing from his wallet, and he decided to
10:33
Speaker 2: turn around and go back home.
10:35
Speaker 1: Back at the house, Dolf accused the three of stealing
10:38
Speaker 1: the money from him. They denied it, and an argument ensued.
10:43
Speaker 1: The next day, the police were called to Joseph Dolf's home.
10:46
Speaker 1: When they entered, they found the place completely trashed, with
10:50
Speaker 1: furniture turned over and talcum powder sprinkled all around. Dolf's
10:55
Speaker 1: body was face down in the bedroom. He'd been stabbed
10:58
Speaker 1: over a dozen times in the chest, abdomen, back, and
11:02
Speaker 1: left arm. A knife was still in his stomach and
11:06
Speaker 1: a phone cord was wrapped around his neck. There were
11:09
Speaker 1: blunt force injuries on his head and a fracture near
11:12
Speaker 1: his right eye. When the police started asking around the
11:15
Speaker 1: community about who could have been involved.
11:18
Speaker 2: They quickly ascertained that the two Cusant's sisters and Jason
11:24
Speaker 2: hab been at his house that night.
11:25
Speaker 8: They were all three arrested.
11:31
Speaker 1: That morning. O'delia, Nourissa, and Jason were taken to the
11:34
Speaker 1: Kamsack Police Detachment by the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
11:40
Speaker 1: The sisters were stripped to their underwear and placed in
11:43
Speaker 1: concrete cells with only raincoats to wear. Later, they were
11:48
Speaker 1: given sweatpants and sweatshirts. Both women spoke with lawyers who
11:52
Speaker 1: told the police that their clients were not to be questioned.
11:56
Speaker 1: The next day, the Justice of the Peace ordered that
11:59
Speaker 1: the cis be remanded to the nearest jail. This was Friday.
12:04
Speaker 2: However, the police ignored that order and kept them until
12:08
Speaker 2: the following Tuesday in the police detachment, so that they
12:12
Speaker 2: were a matter of eight steps from numerous all white,
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Speaker 2: all male police officers in the Camsack detachment in Canada,
12:22
Speaker 2: If you want to hold someone for more than twenty
12:25
Speaker 2: four hours in police custody, you have to get judicial authorization.
12:29
Speaker 2: And they were held in the cells there for a
12:31
Speaker 2: total of five nights. And on these most unpleasant cells
12:36
Speaker 2: which I've seen, they have a seventeenth century appearance to them.
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Speaker 2: Very thick white concrete walls, probably twelve to fifteen inches thick,
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Speaker 2: with bars going from ceiling to ground, and you know,
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Speaker 2: hard cold steel bunks with no bedding, so you know,
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Speaker 2: a very its very nature, highly intimidating for both of them.
13:05
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, their cousin, Jason, was also being questioned, and on
13:09
Speaker 1: the very first day.
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Speaker 2: Jason confessed to the homicide, and his confession was recorded
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Speaker 2: on tape, a tape recording that somehow was not available.
13:20
Speaker 2: When it came to the questioning of Nourissa and Adelia
13:23
Speaker 2: to being the one who did the.
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Speaker 1: Stabbings, the sisters were told that Jason had confessed to
13:28
Speaker 1: the murder and that he implicated them as well, which
13:32
Speaker 1: was later found not to be true. The two were
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Speaker 1: questioned repeatedly by the RCMP over the next four days.
13:39
Speaker 2: They have memory being extremely scared, of course, and frightened
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Speaker 2: around all these men. These what to them were big,
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Speaker 2: burly white men, continually bringing them out of the cells
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Speaker 2: and questioning them again, and putting them back in and
13:52
Speaker 2: questioning them again.
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Speaker 8: Over day after day. They had no lawyers, and the
13:57
Speaker 8: police knew what they wanted, They knew what they were doing.
14:03
Speaker 8: They had to.
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Speaker 2: Get these two girls to say things that somehow tied
14:09
Speaker 2: them into mister Dolph's murder. The police alleged that they
14:12
Speaker 2: gave verbal statements not recorded that slowly but surely amounted
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Speaker 2: to more incriminating statements. So as I say, they got
14:22
Speaker 2: ad Elia to admit one stab wound out of more
14:24
Speaker 2: than forty, how did they get.
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Speaker 7: The girls to confess to this?
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Speaker 2: There's no doubt there was intimidating taxics used. These were
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Speaker 2: two young Indigenous women trying to cope with police officers,
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Speaker 2: white police officers.
14:39
Speaker 8: All male.
14:40
Speaker 2: More than that, they were both victims of the residential
14:43
Speaker 2: school system. They were highly vulnerable individuals. Well never really
14:48
Speaker 2: know exactly what happened because none of it was recorded,
14:52
Speaker 2: they had no lawyers. It was made clearer than what
14:55
Speaker 2: they wanted to hear. The policeman wrote out what they
14:59
Speaker 2: claimed the girls were saying. One of Nourissa's statements was
15:04
Speaker 2: clearly not her words, and on the basis of those
15:09
Speaker 2: unrecorded statements that the police alleged they gave, they were
15:13
Speaker 2: convicted the following year after a trial before a jud
15:17
Speaker 2: Johann of course, not surprisingly in all White Jury.
15:41
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.
15:45
Speaker 1: You can listen to this and all the Lover for
15:47
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15:51
Speaker 1: to LoVa for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
16:01
Speaker 2: Adelia and Nourissa testified at their trials. The trouble is
16:05
Speaker 2: that they had it made clear to them that it
16:08
Speaker 2: was not in their interest to try and challenge the
16:11
Speaker 2: versions of events given by the RCMP officers in front
16:16
Speaker 2: of the jury, because if they did, they'd be disbelieved.
16:20
Speaker 1: After the years they'd spent at residential schools, the girls
16:24
Speaker 1: were conditioned to succumb to authority and believed no one
16:27
Speaker 1: would help them.
16:29
Speaker 2: They were told to stay in line as to how
16:32
Speaker 2: they were treated by the police, who of course testified
16:34
Speaker 2: that they treated them well, etc. Etc. For those five days,
16:39
Speaker 2: even though they shouldn't have been in the police station
16:41
Speaker 2: for four of them, and no one really seemed to
16:43
Speaker 2: see much wrong without a trial.
16:45
Speaker 8: Certainly the trial judge didn't.
16:46
Speaker 2: Her name was Justice Gunn was her name. So they
16:50
Speaker 2: tried to fall into step, you might say, with what
16:54
Speaker 2: the RCMP officers said. Not entirely, but they did their
16:57
Speaker 2: best to so that they're claim that they had not
17:01
Speaker 2: been involved in mister Dolph's murder will be.
17:04
Speaker 8: More likely believed.
17:05
Speaker 2: And this was classic for those times that Indigenous people
17:10
Speaker 2: were told by their own lawyers that you know, if
17:13
Speaker 2: it's your word against the police, no one's going to
17:16
Speaker 2: believe you.
17:20
Speaker 7: So for people in the US who don't know about
17:24
Speaker 7: the systemic abuses of Indigenous people in Canada, can you
17:27
Speaker 7: describe that a little bit.
17:29
Speaker 8: Well, it's not unlike your country.
17:32
Speaker 2: It's very much a colonial history where we colonize the
17:35
Speaker 2: original peoples are part of the continent, and you did
17:39
Speaker 2: the same in your part of the continent. The RCMP
17:42
Speaker 2: has in the past and still to this day, engages
17:46
Speaker 2: in systemic racism towards Indigenous peoples. That's acknowledged publicly, i
17:50
Speaker 2: might say, with some reluctance, but nevertheless acknowledged. The case
17:54
Speaker 2: of Adelia and Urus are just smacks of this. Here
17:58
Speaker 2: we have two young girls, both indigenous. I mean if
18:02
Speaker 2: you or I had been the ones arrested in February
18:05
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety three, they wouldn't have held us in
18:08
Speaker 2: the police cells for five days in complete violation of
18:13
Speaker 2: a judicial order. They're victims of systemic discrimination, and it
18:18
Speaker 2: obviously includes within it then the failure of the police
18:21
Speaker 2: to make any attempt to record any of the interviews,
18:25
Speaker 2: despite the fact that the recording equipment was right there
18:28
Speaker 2: in the police station. Their failure to obey a judicial
18:31
Speaker 2: order for day after day after day, their failure to
18:36
Speaker 2: in any way document the conditions of both a dealer
18:41
Speaker 2: and Urissa, that their level of intoxication on arrest, their
18:45
Speaker 2: level of drug taking, and overall the fact that it's
18:50
Speaker 2: become known in the last twenty years that false confessions
18:55
Speaker 2: are a regular feature of wrongful convictions, and false confession
19:00
Speaker 2: above all come from those who are vulnerable in the
19:04
Speaker 2: first place.
19:05
Speaker 1: Okay, So going back to the trial, o'delia and Narisso
19:08
Speaker 1: were tried in the Court of Queen's Benson, Yorkton before
19:11
Speaker 1: Madame Justice Ellen Gunn, And as you said earlier, it
19:14
Speaker 1: was an all white jury, and we've heard how the
19:17
Speaker 1: sisters were basically forced to incriminate themselves at trial, But
19:22
Speaker 1: what did their lawyers present in defense.
19:25
Speaker 2: Their defense was that the two women were both drunk
19:30
Speaker 2: at the time and therefore their responsibility meant they should
19:34
Speaker 2: only be convicted of manslaughter. It was like a sort
19:38
Speaker 2: of a semi surrender defense.
19:41
Speaker 1: So they didn't bring up a foss confession.
19:44
Speaker 8: No, they did not.
19:45
Speaker 2: Jason was called by the Crown as a witness, and
19:48
Speaker 2: indeed when he testified at trial, he implicated himself and
19:53
Speaker 2: said that he was the one who had stabbed mister Doff.
20:01
Speaker 1: At trial, Jason told a more complete story of what
20:04
Speaker 1: happened that night. Jason said, once they all returned to
20:08
Speaker 1: the house, Joseph Dolph went looking for his missing money.
20:12
Speaker 1: They all got into an altercation and Narissa hit Dolf
20:15
Speaker 1: on the head with a porcelain ornament, which broke in
20:18
Speaker 1: a tea kettle. O'dela hit him with a whiskey bottle.
20:21
Speaker 1: Jason punched Dolf, who was going after Narissa, then followed
20:25
Speaker 1: him into the bedroom and choked him with a telephone cord.
20:28
Speaker 1: Then he grabbed a knife from the kitchen and stabbed
20:31
Speaker 1: Dolf repeatedly, finally leaving the knife in his body. He
20:36
Speaker 1: said o'delia and Nourissa were in another room together crying.
20:41
Speaker 1: After Jason finished assaulting Dolf, the three trashed the house.
20:45
Speaker 1: Then Jason took Dolph's keys and drove them all home.
20:51
Speaker 1: It would later come out that Jason was told to
20:54
Speaker 1: implicate o'dela Noarissa by saying they had hit Dolf. According
20:58
Speaker 1: to Jason, they actually hadn't. He had been the sole attacker. However,
21:04
Speaker 1: Jason's testimony did corroborate the sister's assertion that they were
21:08
Speaker 1: not the ones who had killed Joseph Dolph. He was.
21:12
Speaker 2: He'd already pleaded guilty to the crime. He was a
21:15
Speaker 2: fifteen year old, so he pleaded guilty under the Young
21:18
Speaker 2: Offender's Act and received a sentence of five years. So
21:23
Speaker 2: the real killer was in for five years, and at
21:27
Speaker 2: his age, he shouldn't.
21:27
Speaker 8: Have been in for longer than that. I would hasten
21:29
Speaker 8: to add.
21:32
Speaker 7: Was he asked directly if the girls did and did
21:33
Speaker 7: he say no or was he just not yes?
21:36
Speaker 1: Okay? And he said no, they did not.
21:37
Speaker 8: Yes, he said he's the winner stabbed them.
21:40
Speaker 1: Wow.
21:41
Speaker 7: So even though they were not implicated at the trial
21:44
Speaker 7: by him, they're still convicted. Yes, on February fourth, nineteen
22:07
Speaker 7: ninety four, Odelia and Narissa were convicted of second degree
22:11
Speaker 7: murder and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility
22:15
Speaker 7: of parole in ten years. While she was incarcerated, Odela
22:19
Speaker 7: stayed connected with her partner, Jay, whom she'd known since
22:22
Speaker 7: she was eighteen.
22:24
Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, she gave birth to their
22:26
Speaker 1: daughter and six years later twin girls.
22:40
Speaker 3: My oldest daughter, Hayley, she lived in prison for two
22:44
Speaker 3: years with me.
22:45
Speaker 6: What was that like living with your daughter in prison?
22:48
Speaker 5: I was just grateful she was there with me.
22:50
Speaker 3: Yes, it was like, you know, but do you know
22:53
Speaker 3: what my daughter today, she's very outspoken, and she had
22:59
Speaker 3: a lot of Auntie and Cook Coombs in there to
23:01
Speaker 3: take care of her, you know, like she was allowed
23:04
Speaker 3: to be a child in there.
23:07
Speaker 6: Were there other were there other women with kids?
23:10
Speaker 5: Yeah?
23:11
Speaker 1: Wow?
23:12
Speaker 7: And so once your daughters, you know, left prison and
23:14
Speaker 7: were older, who were they living with And what was
23:17
Speaker 7: that like to try and parent from behind bars?
23:21
Speaker 3: My daughters they were living with their father and he
23:24
Speaker 3: took care of them and he brought them to visit me.
23:27
Speaker 3: I read a couple months.
23:29
Speaker 5: I talked on a phone with them a lot.
23:31
Speaker 6: How do you do being a dad?
23:34
Speaker 3: I think he did pretty good.
23:36
Speaker 5: Kind of spoiled their girls, but in a good way though.
23:46
Speaker 1: While in prison, Odelia also earned her ged, completed a
23:50
Speaker 1: number of programs, and worked in the library, horticulture, kitchen,
23:54
Speaker 1: and daycare. She grew to be respected as a leader
23:58
Speaker 1: by both prisoners and staff. Norissa earned a degree in
24:02
Speaker 1: adult education from the University of Saskatoon while at the
24:06
Speaker 1: Edmonton Institution for Women, the first incarcerated person to graduate
24:11
Speaker 1: from the university and attend her own convocation. She also
24:17
Speaker 1: earned a degree in animal welfare and worked as a
24:19
Speaker 1: dog trainer. Nearly ten years into their sentence, the sisters
24:25
Speaker 1: hit a milestone, so.
24:27
Speaker 2: As of February twenty fourth, two thousand and three, they
24:32
Speaker 2: were eligible for Pearl.
24:33
Speaker 8: They didn't get it, and when they did.
24:35
Speaker 2: Release them a couple of times they imposed these onerous
24:40
Speaker 2: conditions on them, which not surprisingly, they violated. So in
24:45
Speaker 2: twenty twenty abyve the time David Milgard came to me.
24:49
Speaker 2: They both served more than they were actually by then.
24:51
Speaker 2: That's served twenty eight years of their sentences.
24:54
Speaker 1: In James, can you explain who David Milgard is and
24:57
Speaker 1: how he became involved in this case.
25:00
Speaker 2: David was a person who had spent twenty three years
25:03
Speaker 2: in prison in Canada for a great murder he did
25:06
Speaker 2: not commit, and ever since his exoneration, continued to advocate
25:11
Speaker 2: for the wrongly convicted and Nourissa and Adelia Cusance approached
25:17
Speaker 2: him in I think in the summer of twenty twenty,
25:20
Speaker 2: and David then asked me if I would take on
25:23
Speaker 2: their case?
25:24
Speaker 1: So, why did you believe in their innocence? What convinced
25:28
Speaker 1: you of that?
25:30
Speaker 2: Taking into account the whole systemic racism involved in this,
25:34
Speaker 2: it wasn't a hard one. Once I had a chance
25:37
Speaker 2: to read the trial transcripts, the case to me stank
25:40
Speaker 2: when I saw that they had been held in custody
25:43
Speaker 2: in the police station for five days. That that in
25:46
Speaker 2: itself did it for me. I'd never heard of such
25:48
Speaker 2: a thing, never.
25:50
Speaker 1: And so what was your strategy for getting them out?
25:53
Speaker 2: Adelia and Nurissa had had their appeals dismissed in nineteen
25:56
Speaker 2: ninety five, a year after their convictions four paragraph judgment
26:01
Speaker 2: of the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal, which kind of shows
26:04
Speaker 2: you how much attention was given to their case. The
26:07
Speaker 2: only method of challenging a conviction in Canada. After all
26:12
Speaker 2: appeal processes have been exhausted, and after their appeals have
26:16
Speaker 2: been lost, their only avenue of recourse was to go
26:20
Speaker 2: to the Minister of Justice who's in our capital city
26:24
Speaker 2: in Ottawa, and ask him to review their convictions and
26:29
Speaker 2: determine whether they constituted theous charriage of justice.
26:32
Speaker 1: So you did that in twenty twenty two, and then
26:34
Speaker 1: what did you present to the minister.
26:37
Speaker 2: We gave a whole list of reasons as to why
26:40
Speaker 2: these convictions constitutedious charriage of justice. We pointed out that
26:46
Speaker 2: Canada's treatment of Indigenous peoples and this case was a
26:49
Speaker 2: classic abuse of Indigenous peoples, especially women. We talked about
26:55
Speaker 2: the impacts of systemic discrimination on the two of them
26:59
Speaker 2: in the investigation.
27:01
Speaker 1: And so to this day, does Jason still maintain that
27:06
Speaker 1: o'delia and Nurissa were not involved.
27:09
Speaker 2: Yes, I've met Jason a couple of times. Of course,
27:12
Speaker 2: he's now in his mid forties. He's had a pretty
27:15
Speaker 2: difficult life since and bears besides the guilt of stabbing
27:21
Speaker 2: mister Dolph, for the guilt of having implicated Nurisa and
27:25
Speaker 2: Adelia by what he did. But yes, he maintains they
27:30
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it, and his statement to
27:34
Speaker 2: that effect, which he put in writing, enabled us to
27:37
Speaker 2: bring a release application for them until the Minister made
27:41
Speaker 2: his final decision.
27:42
Speaker 8: And I'm glad to say that on March.
27:45
Speaker 2: Twenty seventh of twenty twenty three, more than thirty years
27:49
Speaker 2: after their original arrests and imprisonment, they were released on
27:53
Speaker 2: bail and they're both presently on bail.
28:01
Speaker 1: The situation these two women found themselves in is unfortunately
28:05
Speaker 1: not unusual. According to Canada's Office of the Congressional Investigator,
28:10
Speaker 1: over fifty percent of incarcerated women in Canada are Indigenous.
28:16
Speaker 1: Indigenous people are historically more likely to be arrested for
28:20
Speaker 1: serious crimes, are rarely tried by their peers, and are
28:23
Speaker 1: more likely to be convicted. And like at the residential
28:28
Speaker 1: schools where they were first institutionalized, Indigenous people continue to
28:33
Speaker 1: face systemic racism and abuse throughout the prison and parole system.
28:42
Speaker 7: Does the law in Canada seem to be more understanding
28:47
Speaker 7: now of the plight of Indigenous folks and what they
28:51
Speaker 7: have gone through and suffered, you know, particularly like o'dellia
28:55
Speaker 7: Narissa winding up in a situation like this because of
28:58
Speaker 7: the systemic abuse.
29:00
Speaker 2: To some extent, the answer is yes. Having said that,
29:04
Speaker 2: we have a huge problem in Canada because the Indigenous
29:07
Speaker 2: percentages in the prisons are going up and up and
29:12
Speaker 2: up year by year by year. The denials of parole
29:16
Speaker 2: for the Indigenous are going up and up and up.
29:21
Speaker 2: The number of Indigenous being found to be dangerous offenders
29:24
Speaker 2: and subject to life sentences are going up and up
29:28
Speaker 2: and up. So whilst there may be more recognition, particularly
29:32
Speaker 2: with the present government that talks a great deal about
29:35
Speaker 2: the need for truth and reconciliation with our Indigenous people,
29:40
Speaker 2: at the criminal justice level, things are just terribly.
29:43
Speaker 8: Wrong, right.
29:44
Speaker 7: You know, parole here is pretty awful as well. How
29:47
Speaker 7: is it in Canada? Why is it so bad if
29:49
Speaker 7: you're Indigenous?
29:51
Speaker 8: Because they don't release you. That's the SATs. I mean,
29:53
Speaker 8: there are many reasons for this.
29:55
Speaker 2: But a very simple part of a systemic discrimination is
29:59
Speaker 2: they have ah whole system whereby they assess what they
30:03
Speaker 2: call the criminogenic factors of the individual, the likelihood that
30:08
Speaker 2: they will re offend if released, and the assessments are
30:12
Speaker 2: conducted according to the thinking and customs of the white man,
30:17
Speaker 2: not the thinking, customs and cultures of the Indigenous, and
30:21
Speaker 2: it's been proved very clearly that that means that the
30:25
Speaker 2: Indigenous are always overassessed in terms of the likelihood of
30:31
Speaker 2: their reoffending, which automatically is then used to justify denying
30:36
Speaker 2: them parole. And then when they do release you, they
30:38
Speaker 2: release you on conditions that are almost bound to be violated.
30:42
Speaker 2: No alcohol, no drugs, curfews, those kinds of things which
30:48
Speaker 2: people who are Indigenous likely not very stable, don't have
30:52
Speaker 2: stable environments to return to, are going to be living
30:56
Speaker 2: potentially on reserves, almost bound to violate drinking, and you're
31:01
Speaker 2: on a life sentence. You're back in two three years
31:04
Speaker 2: before you're next entitled to even be considered for parole.
31:08
Speaker 1: Even though Odelia and Narissa were released in March, they
31:11
Speaker 1: have not been exonerated of Joseph Dolf's murder. They're still
31:15
Speaker 1: living under parole conditions while they await ministerial review, hoping
31:20
Speaker 1: for the decision that would finally allow them to live
31:23
Speaker 1: fully free.
31:25
Speaker 5: For me and my sister at this time, like I know,
31:30
Speaker 5: all I have is to wait and is waked and wait.
31:34
Speaker 1: Odelia is now back at home with Jay and their
31:37
Speaker 1: twin daughters. Nourissa is living with a good friend, an advocate,
31:41
Speaker 1: Kim Bowden and his wife Rhonda.
31:44
Speaker 4: He's the Congress of Amagual People of Canada Vice president
31:49
Speaker 4: and yeah, he's myself is I just love him and Rohnda. No,
31:55
Speaker 4: he's a great man, and I usually have a hard
31:57
Speaker 4: time trusting man.
32:04
Speaker 1: After nearly three decades in prison, both sisters, now fifty
32:08
Speaker 1: one and forty nine, are doing their best to adjust
32:11
Speaker 1: to life outside of prison walls while on parole.
32:18
Speaker 4: But for myself it's a real it's different because I'm
32:20
Speaker 4: so institutionalized that I'm used to everything coming. Like if
32:23
Speaker 4: I had to go see the doctor, I just had
32:25
Speaker 4: to go across across the road and or go get
32:29
Speaker 4: groceries just across the hallway. Maybe so, and now here
32:34
Speaker 4: it's it's hard to do. I kind of I've only
32:37
Speaker 4: ridden on a bus once since I've been out here.
32:40
Speaker 4: I have really bad anxiety, and I noticed that I
32:43
Speaker 4: get really irritable and stuff like that, so I don't
32:45
Speaker 4: really like being around people.
32:47
Speaker 7: I understand that you were You were in a prison
32:49
Speaker 7: with a lot of people for a long time.
32:52
Speaker 6: How about you, Adelia, what kinds of things that you're
32:53
Speaker 6: a mom?
32:54
Speaker 1: What's that like.
32:56
Speaker 3: It's been a challenge because I've been away from them
32:59
Speaker 3: for so much many years. So it's rekindling with my
33:03
Speaker 3: daughters and getting to know them.
33:05
Speaker 9: And you know, there's there's a lot of resentments, you know,
33:08
Speaker 9: and I feel them like I we have a good relationship,
33:12
Speaker 9: like I try to be my best fights my girls
33:15
Speaker 9: and you know, give them what they want.
33:17
Speaker 5: But it's hard. It's hard to.
33:20
Speaker 3: Be honest, you know what.
33:22
Speaker 5: I feel useless.
33:23
Speaker 3: Sometimes I feel like I, you know, so went down institutionalize.
33:28
Speaker 10: I don't know what to do on my own. Sometimes
33:30
Speaker 10: I want to do things, make things different. I'm still
33:34
Speaker 10: hopeful about, you know, my future. But like I said,
33:39
Speaker 10: it's it's hard. It's a struggle when you.
33:41
Speaker 3: Just yeah, like great, now I'm starting to get getting
33:45
Speaker 3: getting out of my bedroom as I'm so used to
33:48
Speaker 3: being in a room.
33:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I do too. I spend a lot
33:51
Speaker 4: of room time. I do a lot of sull time.
33:53
Speaker 7: Still, yeah, yeah, I understand that. I hear that from
33:57
Speaker 7: a lot of people who have been inside. It's it's
34:00
Speaker 7: it's scary.
34:02
Speaker 8: Yeah.
34:02
Speaker 3: I always tell myself, you're okay, you're safe. Now, You're okay.
34:09
Speaker 3: It's going to be okay.
34:10
Speaker 5: I always tell myself that my younger solf.
34:14
Speaker 1: Of Delia and Nerissa have found strength in going to conferences,
34:17
Speaker 1: meeting other axonnarees and telling their story.
34:22
Speaker 3: I want to help people and I want to be
34:24
Speaker 3: an advocate for women and children.
34:27
Speaker 4: I remember when I was younger, when I was in jail,
34:31
Speaker 4: like even before I went to BC, I used to say,
34:33
Speaker 4: one day, I'm going to climb that mountain, you know,
34:36
Speaker 4: And that's what it meant for me. It is like,
34:38
Speaker 4: you know, one day I'm going to get there to
34:40
Speaker 4: the top, you know.
34:41
Speaker 6: So where is the top of that mountain for you?
34:45
Speaker 4: Well, I'm there already.
34:51
Speaker 1: Just as they did when they were children, the Q
34:54
Speaker 1: Zone sisters are still looking out for each other, and
34:57
Speaker 1: as they continued to fight for their innocence, both of
35:00
Speaker 1: them credit their own faith as it was taught to
35:02
Speaker 1: them by their elders, with keeping them strong.
35:07
Speaker 3: I follow my traditional native spirituality, so I pray, we
35:10
Speaker 3: call the Creator, So I do a lot of prayers
35:13
Speaker 3: in offering tobacco, and I teach my daughters so.
35:18
Speaker 4: Prayer is powerful. That's all we have when you're in
35:21
Speaker 4: prison is prayer.
35:25
Speaker 3: And prayer is powerful because I know Nobody's greater than
35:30
Speaker 3: that creator.
35:52
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, more than fifty unmarked graves were discovered
35:56
Speaker 1: on the grounds of two residential schools near the Keyscus
35:59
Speaker 1: Reserve for Pelly and Saint Philip's. Investigation is ongoing into
36:04
Speaker 1: who those children were, how they died, and how many
36:08
Speaker 1: more graves are yet to be discovered. Thank you for
36:22
Speaker 1: listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your
36:25
Speaker 1: local innocence organizations and go to the links in the
36:28
Speaker 1: episode description to see how you can help. I'd like
36:31
Speaker 1: to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler, and
36:34
Speaker 1: Kevin Wortis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer
36:38
Speaker 1: Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Beale, and researcher Shelby Sorels.
36:44
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound design are by Jackie Pauley, with additional
36:47
Speaker 1: production by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in
36:51
Speaker 1: this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
36:55
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms
36:58
Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can
37:02
Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful
37:05
Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for
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Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one