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Transcript

Lee Holdsworth (Part 2) · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:19
G'day, it's Rusty here.
0:20
All set for part two of my podcast with supercars driver Lee Holdsworth.
0:25
A quick thank you for all your messages.
0:27
We had lots of them after the recent three-part episode with former supercars supremo Tony Cochran.
0:34
It really got you guys talking and thinking.
0:38
Now, if you'd like to share it with some of your racing mates who haven't heard it, we would really appreciate that.
0:44
And I'm also extremely grateful for those of you that have rated and left a review of Rusty's Garage.
0:50
Thank you.
0:51
Now, if you've somehow slotted straight into Part 2 without selecting Gear 1 or Part 1, jump back to the library and give it a listen.
0:59
Part 1 has some superb moments around his Bathurst win, his retirement news, retirement mark 2 from full-time driving anyway, and what the future holds for this proud family man who made racing his life through pure tenacity an immense commitment.
1:17
And that is how we begin part two, after he contacted Ryan McLeod in his very early days offering to do just about anything to learn the ropes.
1:30
So I was driving Commodore Cup at the time.
1:33
I think it was probably 2002 or 2003 where I said this.
1:37
God, I love those things.
1:38
That's a separate story, I know.
1:39
That was a cool category.
1:40
Yeah, a really cool category.
1:43
And I just, I was like every, you know, I couldn't think about anything but motorsport.
1:50
And so I just wanted to get involved.
1:53
Like I just wanted to be involved somehow.
1:56
And I also thought that if I get involved...
1:59
I knew I didn't have the backing or the sponsorship behind me to be able to fund my way into supercars.
2:05
So I thought the only way I'm going to be able to do this is to get in front of someone that follows my career and wants to give me a shot, you know.
2:18
And sees your commitment.
2:19
And sees the commitment.
2:21
And can see that I'm not just going to want to roll up and drive the car and go home, you know.
2:27
genuinely want to be involved and understand it and...
2:31
Do the hard work and all that stuff.
2:33
So, yeah, I sent off these emails to every single team in pit lane and only Ryan McLeod responded.
2:42
I said in my email, I just said I'll do tyre presses, I'll sweep the floor.
2:48
I don't care what I do.
2:49
I just want to be in the pit.
2:51
So, yeah, Ryan responded and got me along for...
2:56
It was Emory Motorsport at the time.
2:57
And they had...
2:59
Christian Degosten and Darrell Beatty.
3:01
Well, this is where I'm going with this conversation because he and I, as you know, are very good mates and work together in a broadcasting sense.
3:07
And I'm so glad.
3:08
He loved, back when he was racing 500cc bikes, he loved the British Touring Car Championship and he always wanted to do a bit of touring car racing.
3:15
So I was always pleased that he went, and so is Lee Diffie, that he went and ticked the Bathurst box.
3:19
I think he did the Queensland 500 too, or thereabouts.
3:23
But, mate, you were working on their car.
3:25
Yeah.
3:26
What was that?
3:27
I thought it was so cool.
3:28
Did you?
3:28
I thought, Darryl Beattie, like, he's an absolute legend.
3:32
You know, he was a huge, or he still is a huge name.
3:37
And, you know, and I also knew Christian Degosten from Commodore Cup days.
3:42
And there are a number of guys in that team that weekend that... Gerard McLeod.
3:50
Ryan McLeod.
3:51
You had Mike Imry.
3:55
Barney.
3:56
You know, guys that...
3:57
people wouldn't recognise their names that I still keep in contact with these days.
4:02
And I remember, you know, doing... Because it was a start-up team, obviously.
4:07
It was a wild card for Bathurst.
4:08
So I'm doing tyre presses.
4:10
I've got Ryan McLeod saying, I want, you know, 30 PSI in this one, 29, 27, 26 in those ones.
4:18
And so I do them.
4:19
And Mike Imri would come over and he'd say, what are those tyre presses at?
4:23
So blah, blah, blah.
4:24
No, I want them at this, this, this, and this.
4:26
And I'd go, so I'd redo them.
4:29
I'd go back to Ryan and say, hey, Mike said to put them at this.
4:32
And he'd say...
4:34
what the hell, I told you they need to be at this, why are you listening to him?
4:36
And I'm like, he's the boss, isn't he?
4:39
Anyway, so it was a shit fight when I was trying to do it and I thought, far out, but I enjoyed it so much.
4:46
And also, so, you know, I was sweeping floors and doing the rest of it.
4:51
And so Robert Smith was...
4:54
was then interested in what I was doing and, you know, could see the commitment and all that sort of stuff.
4:59
And so could Ryan and the rest of the guys.
5:02
And a few years later, little, you know, did I know I was going to be driving their car.
5:07
Amazing.
5:08
Just come to your first ever drive of a supercar if you can.
5:11
I think, were you and James Small the same day, both having a kind of shootout or having a test?
5:16
Just tell us about that.
5:17
And what was your first sort of visceral reaction of a supercar?
5:21
What did you think?
5:22
Oh, man.
5:23
Yeah, it was.
5:24
It was myself and James Small who became my engineer a few years later.
5:28
Who's in NASCAR doing amazing things as a crew chief now.
5:31
One of the smartest engineers I've ever come across and so practical and...
5:37
The best thing about, you know, the best engineers are the ones that have done some driving themselves because when you're relaying information to them, they can understand it.
5:45
They can picture it and they can drive it in their heads and understand it to some point.
5:50
Like it's like they have actually driven the car.
5:53
So, yeah, we got out there and James had just, I think he'd run, maybe won the Formula Ford Championship or runner-up or something.
6:04
Anyway, he was doing good things.
6:07
And him and I, yeah, it was a bit like a shootout for us, which is crazy because you wouldn't do that these days because someone would end up in the fence.
6:18
But, yeah, so I remember my first thoughts on the car was, holy crap, this thing has got so much power.
6:26
I'd just come out of a Commodore Cup car with...
6:29
Far out 4.2 litre V8 What are we talking 300 horsepower VK VH rather Weren't they And VC maybe Sort of What was yours Yeah VH VH It's a big step up in power Double the power basically Massive step up And I thought And then they're telling me The faster you go The more grip you'll have as well And I'm like Okay Really Does that wing do that much
6:52
um so yeah just kept building up to it and thinking and this thing's just unbelievable and um ended up you know doing a pretty decent job in it james did it did a great job as well uh and yeah so we came away from that day and i just thought what an amazing experience and you know when you do like it
7:16
I've always had short-term plans that have been long-term plans at some point as well.
7:23
And to tick that off the list at that point was like, I just drive a supercar.
7:28
How cool is that?
7:30
That was my dream, was to drive a supercar.
7:32
And I just did it.
7:33
I'm like, tick.
7:35
But now I want more.
7:37
So then, you know, I didn't want to just drive a supercar.
7:40
I wanted to become a supercar driver.
7:43
So then that was the next phase.
7:45
Can we just, for one quick second, your dad didn't want your boys, you and Brett, your brother, to be in dirt bikes, which you really wanted to do.
7:54
So I think he got you a go-kart for Christmas.
7:56
didn't he?
7:56
And you both kind of had to share it.
7:58
The family got it for you for Christmas.
7:59
Is that right?
8:00
Yeah, no, I think it was actually Santa.
8:02
Santa, was it?
8:03
Yeah.
8:03
Okay, Santa.
8:04
Oh, sorry.
8:05
Santa got it for you.
8:06
Okay.
8:06
So I think Dad must have had a chat to him or something.
8:09
Okay.
8:11
Yeah, so Brett and I were mad keen on... We rode our bikes everywhere, just our road cycling bikes and BMX bikes.
8:22
And so, you know, we used to throw the bottle in the back, you know, the plastic bottle, so it made the noise like a motorbike.
8:29
And people used to get the shits with us down the street because it was so loud.
8:34
And it would also burn the tyre off the thing as well.
8:38
But, yeah, so we were mad keen on motorbikes.
8:41
And Dad hates them, hates them with a passion.
8:45
And now I see why.
8:45
I'm like, I'm not getting my kids on motorbikes.
8:48
No way.
8:49
So, yeah, we went, we started going go-karting.
8:52
What was that first go-karting?
8:53
Just high go-karting.
8:54
Oh, high-karting.
8:54
Yeah, when I was about four years old, he got us into it.
8:58
And he never raced anything himself.
9:00
He just loved the sport.
9:02
Never had the opportunity to do it himself.
9:03
So, he...
9:06
He thought, you know, I'll start taking my kids to the go-kart track and then once we loved that, we were hooked on it.
9:13
We were like, well, now we need our own.
9:17
But we were still after a motorbike.
9:20
But, yeah, so Santa thought, you know, to keep us safe, he'll keep us on, you've got to be on four wheels.
9:26
And I was always in hospital as well, which is partly the reason why I've got the nickname Lethal.
9:31
What injuries?
9:32
What did you do to yourself?
9:33
How did you scare your folks?
9:34
Broken arms, broken collarbones, stitches on the head all the time.
9:45
And just falling off stuff.
9:49
I don't know.
9:50
Going just stupid on everything.
9:52
Everything I did, I just went stupid on.
9:54
Does that make you a nervous parent now that you know what you did?
9:57
Yeah.
9:57
Yeah, big time.
9:58
I'm like, why is Riley doing that?
10:01
Well, that's right.
10:02
I used to do that.
10:04
So, anyway, we got this go-kart.
10:06
I remember waking up looking.
10:08
It was in our room on the floor.
10:10
Brett and I used to sleep in the same room when we were, like, six years old or something.
10:14
He's seven years old.
10:15
And we looked down, and there's this shiny little Demon X8.
10:19
Awesome.
10:20
Just brand new.
10:22
And back then, they didn't have side pods and, like, no...
10:26
NASA panel or anything like that.
10:28
Yeah.
10:28
So real old school, and they had that little foam car, you know, airbox on it.
10:33
Oh, wow.
10:33
Yeah.
10:34
So it was so special, though.
10:36
It was like far out.
10:38
Like, this is – that was a dream come true.
10:40
True.
10:42
And then so, of course, we had to get into racing.
10:44
And I was six years old, did practice for like a year.
10:49
We were just practicing out at Ipswich and got my license.
10:55
I don't think you could get it until you were seven.
10:58
But I remember...
11:00
for that first year I couldn't reach the pedals so we slipped training wheels over the pedals so I could reach no joke no joke um so we had these yeah these little like um yeah like training wheels off a off a bike and um you could reach that I could yeah I could push the pedals so yeah crazy it was actually quite um smart of dad to come up
11:23
with that um so yeah we and then it was it was great it was it was good for us to what was special about karting at the start was dad was always away for for um business he was starting he had his own business and he was starting a new business in brisbane from scratch uh
11:45
And then, you know, we never saw him.
11:47
You know, we'd very rarely see him.
11:49
But then racing brought us all together as a family with mum.
11:53
You know, she came to every event and she was, you know, she got right behind it as well.
11:59
She was like chief timekeeper.
12:00
Awesome.
12:02
And she didn't mind getting her hands dirty either.
12:04
So we'd go away as a family and it was a real bonding sort of event.
12:09
And, you know, but...
12:13
dad was probably thinking that at the time but i was thinking this is going to be my career brett would go off and kind of i mean he still loves his racing and that's awesome that he does it now but he you know would ultimately go a business path you were basically bouncing out of bed in your race suit good to go that was just your your whole thing did you ever contemplate anything else like you know maybe i need to be uh uh whatever was there a you know
12:41
uh no no i i actually don't i remember telling my grandparents when i was like six seven years old they're saying what are you going to do like what do you want to do when you and this went all the way up till my teenage years they're like what do you want to do in your career like what do you want to have for a job i'd say i want to be a professional racer
13:03
Yeah, but that's just a hobby.
13:05
What do you want to do as a real job?
13:07
I say, that's what I want to do.
13:09
Like, there was just...
13:10
Nothing else.
13:11
That was it.
13:12
That was all my head had in it.
13:13
I love it.
13:15
And whereas Brett was more like, yeah, I want to...
13:19
you know start my own business and do this and that um but also he loved motorsport as well like he wanted to make a career of it as well but he was um you know both of us had different levels of commitment you know on a saturday night he'd still want to go to the party because you know he's with his schoolmates whereas i'd be quite happy sitting at home and visualizing how i was
13:46
But it used to piss me off because Brett would still turn up and go well the next day even though he had a couple of beers the night before.
13:54
But after a while, I think we started realising that that commitment is what you needed and Brett's...
14:03
been huge like instrumental in in my career as well uh where you know we got to a point at the end of commodore cup um when that was pretty obvious that i wanted to make a career of it more so than he did um i think we had equal ability uh
14:21
But, you know, I remember Dad sitting us down and saying, hey, we can't be doing this forever, unfortunately.
14:27
We were both racing Commodore Cup, having a great time, but, you know, we could only do that for so long.
14:32
And back then, you know, it was like...
14:34
It was a lot of money back then, but now thinking back, it seems like such small money compared to what we talk about these days.
14:41
But it was like $30,000 per car to run for the year.
14:45
That's a lot back then.
14:45
Back then it was a lot, yeah.
14:49
And to get into, like to get my gig with Smithy...
14:56
In Super 2, it was, you know, it was a cheap, like actually a really cheap deal of $150,000.
15:03
It was like...
15:05
But that was huge to us.
15:07
That's like, oh, how the hell do we do that?
15:11
And then so Dad sat Brett and I down and said, look, we can't do it for both of you, unfortunately.
15:19
One of you has to make the decision.
15:22
And, you know, for Brett, like he just said, mate, it's Lee.
15:27
He's got to do it.
15:28
Oh, cool.
15:28
Yeah, so like he...
15:32
Yeah, again, that was a point where it was like, that was a huge part of the career as well.
15:37
Because if he had decided he still wanted to do it and he wasn't going to let me just do it on my own, then probably wouldn't be here now.
15:47
So, yeah, he's been a huge, huge part of it.
15:50
Your story, right, has some poignant moments of sacrifice and relationships and how well you've dealt with both, right, to get to where you are.
16:01
So let's talk about your dad here for a second because he instilled some great things in your boys, your family, full stop, not just your dad.
16:08
But there were moments where that was...
16:10
tested mate where he was you know it um it affected your relationship for a while there if you wasn't sure if you were fully committed um how did you get through that how did you guys bounce through that and and what was that like to deal with because that's a growth experience for a young man who still has to i think you're on record as saying this elsewhere that that it is really important for young racers at some point to step away from the family shadow and be on their own two feet absolutely absolutely so uh
16:38
So shortly after that point where we'd made the decision to invest in my career, I met Alana.
16:47
I was 20 years old.
16:50
I was just about to turn 21.
16:52
And that's like a critical time in your racing career to make or break, whether you're going to do it or whether you're not.
17:01
And Dad didn't like the thought of me having my...
17:07
to be focused on something else other than racing um considering the investment so like it was it was funny at the time i was like a little kid like a little like a like a teenager i had to you know i was sneaking out at night to go see her and stuff i'm like i'm 20 years old what am i doing and um and dad was sort of at a point where he's like mate you're not you're not focused
17:33
And I'm like, well, I actually am.
17:35
Like, you don't realise how much I want this.
17:38
And I think like a lot of drivers, I think my brother was a little bit like this where he felt like he was doing a little bit for Dad at one point because Dad loved it so much.
17:51
And, you know, he got to a point where he was so invested in it that it would have killed him for one of us not to succeed in motorsport.
18:02
And, you know...
18:03
And so it was everything to Dad, and everything that he was working for was for that as well.
18:08
So I could understand what he was saying, but at the same time I'm like, well, you know, you can't help how you feel about someone.
18:17
And so there came a point where I thought, well, if, you know, I can't...
18:23
This is not going to work on one way or another.
18:26
There was one point where I broke up with Alana because I thought, well...
18:31
Maybe dad's right.
18:35
But that didn't last long because I just couldn't do it.
18:38
So Alana and I made the decision to move.
18:43
Brett had already moved to Melbourne for business.
18:45
And Brett was saying, mate, you need to do this on your own.
18:50
And he said, come and move in with me down in Melbourne.
18:53
Mm-hmm.
18:54
So I told Mum and Dad and I told them that I was just going down there for a holiday and never came back.
19:07
And Dad said, well, if that's what you're doing, then you're going to have to find your own way.
19:14
And, you know, it was a threat at the time.
19:20
I think he needed to realise that I was doing it for myself, not, you know, I was doing it because I want to, like, I want to show him how much...
19:29
It wasn't that I wanted to show him how much I want it.
19:32
It was that...
19:34
I just love it that much that I'm going to do this.
19:37
And so I ended up going and seeing Sean Scott in Formula Ford and saying, mate, I'll work for you.
19:46
I'll do anything.
19:48
I'll stay late at night to do extra jobs and all the rest of it.
19:53
just I just need you to give me a cheaper rate and and so he offered me a drive and said yep I'll pay you buddy whatever it was and so we were living in the city I had getting a train a train out to Brayside each day and riding my bike out to the the the little shed in industrial drive and and working on my car each day but before that dad was
20:20
realized that oh shit he is actually for real about this like he's now gone out and chased a drive and um and uh yeah so sorry this is the second year of super two so i'd done the first year and i met alana in the first year and then the second year we sort of ran out of budget and that's when i went right i'm doing it myself and i went down to melbourne found the formula four drive
20:46
which was pretty cheap.
20:48
And Dad then jumped back on board and said, all right, I can see how much you want this.
20:54
I'm sorry, you know.
20:55
And he even apologised to Alana, which was huge, you know, for him to do that.
21:01
He realised that she's actually a really big support rather than a distraction.
21:10
And then I actually got asked back by Robert Smith to do it for free.
21:15
So that was huge.
21:17
So I was doing Formula Ford and Super 2.
21:21
You were pretty straight with him, weren't you?
21:22
I've got nothing, I can't bring anything here.
21:24
Yeah, he said, I want to go again, I want to run you again.
21:27
And I said, well, I'm sorry, we don't have budget.
21:34
you know and and he was good about it he was great and obviously you know i think he had paul pushing it in the background and ryan and um so you know he obviously you know with his smith trucks business was doing pretty well and he loved it so much that he wanted to get me back in the car and yeah so that was that was incredible and again you know without that i would have done my
21:58
ended up you know just being a weekend racer you've told this to noons as well flirt night brisbane yeah 320 i've got a message for 201 which was alana or something or other did she keep that she's kept that she's kept it she's still got it she's still got it i said um so yeah we rolled down to regatta hotel uh in brisbane and which was my local and i'm
22:22
Yeah, there was a thing on a Wednesday night.
22:23
It was called Flirt Night.
22:25
And you'd get, like, you'd have to put a number on yourself as you walked in the door.
22:30
And if you'd spot someone and you wanted to give them a message, you'd say, you'd look at their number and you'd be, I, number 331, you know, hi, number 331.
22:40
I think you're the hottest looking girl.
22:42
You're the hottest girl in the farm or whatever.
22:45
You've got mail.
22:45
Yeah.
22:47
And it would come up on the TV screen that number 331 has a message, right?
22:52
So she went and got her message and walked over to me and we started a conversation and the rest is history.
23:01
Amazing, amazing.
23:02
But yeah, getting back, sorry, just getting back to the thing with Dad, because that's probably left it off on a...
23:09
you know not the uh the most positive note um but he when i say he jumped back on board like he was 100 back in and and like we you know i apologized to him and and he apologized to me and you know we had hurt us because we're such we're a close family and that period was like this is this isn't
23:36
we're so close and up to this point we've done everything together.
23:41
And I think at that point he realised that it was actually the right thing for me to do was for my own good and for probably his own good was to step away and break apart and mend the relationship and then ride the wave together again.
24:02
Pretty cool for the Holdsworths to be Bathurst winners.
24:05
Yeah.
24:06
Oh?
24:06
Yeah, very cool.
24:07
Can you remember what your brother said to you, for example?
24:11
I think he was speechless.
24:13
Was he?
24:13
Like he – and so, like, my family's – you know, obviously I call Lana first and then, like, I'll call, you know, the rest of my family straight after.
24:23
And Brett's generally the one I speak to first.
24:27
And, you know, he was just over the – like –
24:31
I remember, that's right, they had a...
24:33
So Brett's got a place up in Narang, and he had everyone over, like a massive bunch of people, including Mum and Dad, and he sent me videos straight after of him spraying the champagne down Dad's back and just spraying him in the face with it.
24:50
Yeah, so it was like when I saw that, I'm like, man, that doesn't just mean everything to me.
24:58
That shows you.
25:09
In 1776.4 kilometers please do not unpack your removal truck.
25:15
Your dream of becoming a race driver is still alive.
25:18
You will be asked to sign a long-term deal and immediately return back to Victoria.
25:23
Read the fine print, strap yourself in, and get set for one hell of a ride.
25:29
While we're on this flavour of relationships, can we bounce through two others, if you don't mind, in the paddock?
25:36
Gary Rogers.
25:37
You brought him up a little earlier, you know, from that first phone call.
25:43
You know, he tested you.
25:44
You drove all the way home to Queensland.
25:46
Then he rang you and said, hey, when can you start Monday or whatever it was and stuff like that.
25:50
You had to come all the way back.
25:51
Yeah.
25:53
Even I think that there was a typo in the contract that you had with him for some... You had a five-year deal and there's a typo, wasn't there?
26:00
Yeah, there was.
26:01
He stuck to it, didn't he?
26:02
He did.
26:03
He did.
26:05
He's got a few cards up his sleeve, old Gary.
26:08
But, yeah, so...
26:09
He was, yeah, like, again, you know, there's just all these people in my career where if it hadn't have been for one person, it wouldn't have then gone to the next phase and then so on and so on.
26:21
And we all have those stories, but I feel like it's just, if I hadn't had that one person each time, then it'd be a completely different story of my career.
26:33
And Gary was a huge, huge part of that.
26:36
And he was really the guy that...
26:39
He was known as the Talent Scout.
26:42
And, yeah, so after my...
26:46
I did the enduro with him in 2005.
26:48
And then he...
26:54
He ended Andy Jones' contract at the end of that year and McConville was moving on as well to PWR and they'd signed Dean Canto up, who I'd been racing with in Super 2.
27:07
He won the series with DJR and then Dean wanted to concentrate on...
27:14
So they put Dean in the car for the last few rounds.
27:17
I think he was there for Gold Coast and a few others.
27:20
But for the last round at Phillip Island,
27:23
Dean wanted to concentrate on Super 2 and winning the championship.
27:27
So then they needed someone in the car for the final round.
27:30
And so I slotted into there, which just came as a massive shock because it was like a week out and Gary said, Righto, you're in.
27:39
I want you...
27:40
come down to put you in the seat no seat fitting back then it was just put cushions in um and uh and so i rolled in and i was still doing super two as well uh so i i raced the the double that weekend and it was just an incredible experience and it was like my first taste of of racing a proper like in a proper team um
28:03
um in supercars and all i remembered was these are the cars that are on bloody playstation that i'm always jumping in and i remember i was always jumping in the grmk yeah i loved the i loved the color scheme and and now i was driving it i was like this is just incredible and
28:22
And that's a proper bullring too, isn't it, mate, because they play for keeps those boys when you're playing.
28:26
Big time.
28:27
And I think the thing that probably got Gary over the line was, I think McConville qualified, I don't know.
28:37
We were back in the field.
28:38
The cars weren't great then.
28:40
I think he might have been 20th and I was 21st, so I was pretty close with him.
28:44
That's good.
28:44
Good gear stick.
28:45
Yeah, and then in the race, I broke the stick.
28:49
The gear stick snapped.
28:52
and so it had no handle on top it was just like a little stick thin rod and those things were hard to shift like it was an h-pattern gearbox they clunked into each gear and i i didn't have the balls to say hey guys i'm pulling in like it's this is killing my hand so this is this is ripping your glove this is blood coming oh man what are we talking about
29:15
It was so badly bruised and blistered that I could hardly clench my hand after the weekend.
29:23
Like, it was that bad.
29:25
And my wrist was sore and like...
29:28
But Gary, I think, was impressed in my commitment and, you know, pushing through and still finishing the race in...
29:36
I don't know where it was, but it was reasonable.
29:40
And then, you know, and then he had to, I think that was my rehearsal.
29:43
That was the audition for the next year.
29:47
And I obviously passed, but he didn't exactly tell me straight away.
29:54
So, yeah, we got to the end of the year around Christmastime.
30:01
And again, I was like, okay, that's it.
30:05
Like, it's...
30:06
That's the end of my career.
30:07
Awesome.
30:08
You know, okay, I've done a supercar round, but that's not where I want to finish.
30:15
And so Alana and I packed all our gear up in a little budget truck and drove back to Brizzy.
30:23
And because Gary couldn't give me an answer,
30:26
And I think a week after getting back up to Queensland, we went and lived at Alana's dad's place, Gary rang and he said, Righto, I need you down here in a week.
30:38
I said, what?
30:39
What for?
30:41
That is so him.
30:43
He said, you're starting full-time work next week and you'll be driving car 33.
30:49
And you can imagine, like, I was just like, what the?
30:53
Like...
30:54
I've just moved everything.
30:55
I said, I just got back.
30:57
What, like...
30:58
How come you couldn't tell me two weeks ago?
31:00
Anyway, I didn't say that because I'm like, I was so over the moon.
31:03
I didn't care if I had to bloody drive around the world to get there.
31:07
So I said, can you please, you know, I thanked him and all the rest of it, but I said, can you just please send me a contract because all I'm hearing in the media is that Jason Bargwana's got this drive and that this person's got it and he goes...
31:22
well don't believe all that bullshit you know you know the way he talks he said you know i'm telling you right now you got the drive um come down here we'll sign a contract so i flew down and gary put his contract in front of me and i said do you mind if i just um it was a five-year contract and i said do you mind if i just give ryan mcleod a call and he said
31:47
I said, do you mind if I send it off to Ryan?
31:49
And he said, no, you either do it now or we don't do it.
31:53
And far out.
31:55
All right, can you at least let me call him before I sign?
32:00
So I called Ryan.
32:01
He said, mate, you need to, buddy, send it off to me.
32:03
I need to have a look at it and blah, blah, blah.
32:05
And I said, mate, I can't.
32:07
Like, I've got to sign now.
32:09
And he goes, oh, shit.
32:10
righto well make sure you got this in it and that in it so we added a couple of little things and Gary said righto and so on and but before before I moved down he sent me just a it's a fax wasn't it yeah it was like an MOU and
32:28
and um and it was handwritten i couldn't read it right it was that badly uh his handwriting is is unbelievable he's like a doctor with his handwriting and um i think i made sense of it said something about that i was going to be driving and that was good enough for me so anyway that was when we headed back down and um and yeah flew off down there and signed the real contract and then
32:52
packed the truck again and headed back down.
32:54
Amazing.
32:55
It had, I think, five years but ended 2011 or something or other.
33:00
You did have a bit of a... A bit of a dispute over that one.
33:06
Yeah.
33:06
So when I was at GRM, I had a couple of teams...
33:13
show a bit of interest and um you know there was one of them was hrt and the other was fpr and at the time like man that's that's cool like these these are the biggest teams in the comp um but also you know i was fully committed to gary and we were doing good things you know we were getting good results and sort of building on something and um and
33:37
So I was telling these other teams, hey, I've got a contract until 2011, the end of 2011.
33:45
2011 rolls around and I say, oh, Gary, I just want to let you know nice and early that this will be my last year, I'll move on after this year.
33:57
And he says, no, you won't.
34:01
He said, you've got a six-year contract.
34:03
I said, no, I don't.
34:05
It's five.
34:06
He said, no, have a look in there.
34:08
It says, he said, it's, I forget what the, there was just a mistake in the dates they'd put in there and it worked out to be that it was six years but everything in the contract suggested five years, you know, the payment structure and everything.
34:27
And I said, no, no, no, no.
34:29
Anyway, we had this dispute and I said, well,
34:34
you know that this is wrong, Gary.
34:38
So if we're going to do this, I want a couple of things on my terms.
34:42
So I said, I want Richard Holway and...
34:48
I forget what else was like, and I want a new chassis.
34:50
Or there was something else.
34:52
Gun engineer at HRT at the time or whatever.
34:54
Yeah, yeah.
34:55
And we got Richard Holway.
34:58
So I was like, well, this has worked out all right.
35:00
So I stayed on for...
35:04
So we were having this conversation at the end of 2010.
35:08
And so he got Richard Holway for 11, and I was there for 12 as well.
35:12
So I had Richard Holway for two years, and...
35:14
and just really enjoyed it like Richard was awesome um had a great time uh and then yeah it came to a point where I was like well you know if you if you're not moving forward um and there's not huge plans ahead for the team then you sort of start a you've got to start to look elsewhere so yeah I looked um looked to see where I could go next
35:40
Let's bounce through a couple of things here because you've been very good with your time and I'm conscious of that, mate.
35:44
Firstly, the deal, fans have been asking about the deal that got away.
35:49
Did HRT get closer than we realised or was there one that you sort of think, oh, gee, you know, it would have been nice to have gone and driven for them?
35:57
Well, there was a point probably midway through my GRM contract where HRT did approach.
36:04
But, you know, being a man of my word, I said, I'm in a contract.
36:08
I can't do anything until the end of it unless you guys want to try and negotiate something.
36:16
You know, I wasn't going to leave by upsetting Gary and...
36:20
That's not your nature.
36:21
Yeah.
36:22
So I said, if you want to do something, then you're going to have to sort it with Gary, come to an agreement or something.
36:28
But otherwise, I'm in a contract and I'm seeing it out.
36:33
And similar happened with FPR.
36:36
so that when I was talking to Gary about finishing up with him, I was going to go into FPR and take Stephen Richards' spot.
36:45
So, yeah, as far as that went, it wasn't to the point of having a contract in front of me, but it was certainly to the point where we were talking about that that's the direction FPR wanted to go and HRT wanted to go.
37:06
But, yeah, just the timing wasn't right.
37:11
What's the greatest lesson Gary Rogers taught you, do you reckon, for your racing career in that period that you were with him?
37:16
What's the...?
37:19
I think being honest and upfront.
37:24
and just no bullshit with any other team owner after that was like he set the standard now and and the way that i talked to him was the way then that i talked to every team owner just being completely up front he never wanted you to bullshit him because he he saw through bullshit like straight a while yeah um so yeah
37:45
You know, if you'd beat around the bush with him, he'd say, come on, get to the point.
37:48
What do you want?
37:49
Do you want this?
37:50
Do you want... Like, what do you want?
37:51
Just tell me.
37:52
And so you'd just get straight to the point with him, and it was either a yes or a no.
37:56
And if you could justify why you wanted something, you know, whether it was, hey, I think I deserve a bit more money next year, or he'd say, well, why?
38:03
What are you doing extra now?
38:05
And I'd say, you know, this is why.
38:07
Like, you'd put your case towards him.
38:09
And so, yeah, you sort of, you know, from that point onwards, it was always...
38:15
the way that I approached every other team was, if I want more money, that has to be justified.
38:21
Or if I want this or that with, you know, engineers or, you know, equipment or whatever, I'd put forward a business case.
38:34
And to justify why and why I think that'll help for the team as well as myself.
38:41
Are things okay with you and Charlie Schwerkalt now?
38:43
Because that's exactly what I think you did when you were there with him.
38:47
You wanted to buy into the dream, to help build it, to see success with it, and it wasn't forthcoming.
38:53
So that friendship was tested, mate.
38:56
With the benefit of time, is it better now?
38:58
Yeah, it was definitely tested.
38:59
Like, I had a great relationship with Charlie.
39:03
You know, we became...
39:06
pretty close and you know friends and um our families were close and and then it got to a point where you know we were building something and it was you know 16 was the start of year for team 18 standalone as a team to break off as a one car team and um and i thought you know that
39:27
It was not too bad for a building year.
39:30
We had triple eight, older triple eight gear.
39:34
We realised that we're a bit behind the eight ball with that stuff.
39:36
But then so the following year we decided that, hey, let's see if we can go our own direction.
39:44
And so 17 was actually a...
39:48
a really positive year like we we made some great gains with the car for most of the year i was sort of you know running in the top half of the year and for a one car team that wasn't too bad um you know i wanted more charlie wanted more and so i was trying to get him to do two cars for the following year um you know always chasing the greatest engineer out there and you know there's there's a lot of good engineers in the sport but there's
40:18
There's some very, very good ones, like some great ones in the sport, but there's not that many great ones.
40:27
And so I was trying to chase one of those great ones, and we couldn't find one.
40:33
We couldn't get them on board.
40:36
And the following year, we went to the...
40:39
So 2018 went to the new chassis, or sorry, the new body shell,
40:48
Zed, no, what was that thing?
40:51
What was it?
40:52
The new body shop.
40:53
Zed B?
40:54
Please press on Zed B, I think.
40:55
Zed B.
40:56
And as soon as we rolled out, like we rolled out of Newcastle and, you know, we were top four and top ten in qualifying both days, shootouts and everything.
41:08
So we're thinking, hey, you know, we've got a bit of speed here.
41:11
We'll build on that again next year.
41:14
We rolled out at the first test day of 2018 and I just said, what is going on here?
41:21
Like, this is not the car.
41:24
Anywhere near what I had last year.
41:26
Like, this thing is so far away.
41:29
And we didn't understand why, but, yeah, we did everything, trying to fix it and tune it up and just really got nowhere all year.
41:38
And it was painful.
41:40
Like, we had reliability problems.
41:45
We had, you know, a software program that was suggesting things that was not working on the car, and...
41:55
And towards the end of the year, Matt Brabham was signed up to do the Enduros and we went for a test day and we thought, right, we've got one more test day to get things right.
42:06
You know, we've got to have a big list of options for this test.
42:11
And unfortunately, early in the day, Matt had an off and it ended our day pretty early, like 10 o'clock in the morning.
42:20
We couldn't get our day back through supercars.
42:24
Again, next round was brutal for us.
42:27
And then we'd signed Jason Bright then for Enduros to replace Matty.
42:35
And this was the best thing that happened to me because...
42:40
Everyone knew what Jason could do.
42:43
And when he jumped in it, he said, wow, you've been driving this?
42:50
And so that was the point where he went to Charlie and said, this is not right.
42:54
Like, what's been going on?
42:56
Because there came a point when you're complaining about the same things over and over, people get over it.
43:05
You know, they don't want to hear it anymore.
43:07
And I guess that was the point where Charlie and I both thought, well, this isn't going good, you know.
43:14
I didn't like the car.
43:15
I was starting to become very negative about it probably halfway through the year.
43:20
And, you know, I'm pretty optimistic, I think.
43:22
You know, I keep a pretty positive attitude, obviously.
43:26
And but but there was nothing positive about it at all.
43:30
It was like a really bad year.
43:32
And Charlie and I had a bit of a fallout because I was telling him that, you know, the car's terrible and that we need to, you know, get an engineer in to tune this thing up and get it into the window where it needs to be.
43:49
Jason came along for Enduros and we went to Sandown first and he hated it, hated it and couldn't drive it.
43:59
And I think we ended up, Jase ended up in the sand trap at the end of Dandy Road whilst, you know, running down the back of the pack.
44:12
And I just bailed.
44:13
Like, I don't usually just walk out, but I walked out.
44:17
And then we came back for Bathurst
44:19
and again, just terrible.
44:21
And then we had Gold Coast and Jase was talking to Phil Keat actually and trying to get some advice on what to do.
44:30
And Phil, to his credit, gave us a bit of a window for the car and we rolled out and we...
44:39
We convinced the engineers to do what we wanted, which took some convincing.
44:47
And we rolled out at Gold Coast and we had a quick car.
44:52
And then from that point on, it was all too late.
44:55
We finished up sixth or something at Gold Coast, whereas the rest of the year I was running in the 20s.
45:03
And then to finish off the year at Newcastle, had top tens in shootouts and top tens in the races and I think it was top fives actually.
45:17
But it was all just the relationship had gone.
45:21
But that last round at Newcastle that year in 2018, I thought that was my last race.
45:27
Wow.
45:27
So I was nearly ready to go down and say, you know, see you later, thanks everyone, I'm gone.
45:35
But it took some, you know, it was a pretty hard pill to swallow because...
45:40
At the end of the year, I'm like, well, it's not me.
45:44
You know, like, give me the car and I'll do it.
45:46
I'll do the job.
45:48
So I was on the phone to Tickford and that was the next part of the journey.
45:53
Mega.
45:54
Quickly here, because I think we're going to get probably wound up at some point.
45:59
Firstly, we're on the eve of Pukecohe this weekend.
46:02
I've got very fond memories of you at Oran Park and so on.
46:05
Are we going to miss this place like we miss Oran Park perhaps?
46:10
100%.
46:12
It's really sad because we see all these great old historic racetracks that have so much character and then no one's going to ever build anything like them again.
46:26
you can't build dangerous anymore and you can't build, you know, undulate, like really undulating tracks with no runoff and, you know, great spectator areas.
46:39
I'm sure we can still do that.
46:41
But those tracks, like Oran Park...
46:44
I see it very similar to Pukakowa.
46:46
It had so much character.
46:48
The way that they used to sit up on the hill at Oran Park and do that here at Pukakowa, it's the one corner I think about.
46:55
When I think about the crowd at Pukki, I think about looking up, coming through the final corner and looking up on an out lap or whatever and just seeing a sea of people.
47:04
You just think, that's what it's all about.
47:08
And we all love the track because it's bumpy, it's fast, it's dangerous.
47:15
the history you know and and so to lose that one it's another one of the great circuits gone absolutely are you going to treat yourself to a little resto project in in post full-time life is there a car or something you might like to restore maybe you've got something in the garage already
47:31
I don't.
47:32
I don't, actually.
47:34
I've never had a project, like a project car.
47:36
But my dream car, and this goes back from when I was a kid, was a VK Brock Commodore.
47:46
Ooh.
47:47
Yeah.
47:47
Even though I drive for Ford.
47:49
Yeah.
47:49
Like, you know, I'm loyal to the brand Ford.
47:53
Well, you know, and...
47:54
But...
47:55
My dad was a Holden man, and I just remember Brockie driving this VK...
48:03
the, we can't say the brand that was on the car.
48:05
Yeah, the Dayglo colours though.
48:06
Yeah, the Dayglo.
48:09
And that was like, that was then just my dream car.
48:12
It was like that VK.
48:14
So I got a VK for my first car and I put the Brock kit on it and everything and it was a five litre Calais.
48:24
You had to sell it to fund part of your racing, I think, didn't you?
48:27
I actually sold it for four grand.
48:30
And it cost me four grand to go and sign up for a chance of a lifetime.
48:35
Which wasn't a chance of a lifetime.
48:37
No, it certainly wasn't a chance of a lifetime.
48:40
It was a pretty expensive little couple of laps, to be honest.
48:43
Well, we hope you get that little dream car in the garage at some stage.
48:49
What would the Lee Holdsworth of today tell a young aspiring racer like Dick Johnson did for you when he came to your dad's office that day when you were younger and talked to you about which direction your career should go?
49:04
What would you say?
49:06
Uh...
49:07
I don't think much has changed in the way that, you know, there's plenty of kids out there with money that can find their way in somehow.
49:16
But anyone that wants to make a proper career of it and actually have some longevity in the sport is, you know, don't rely on talent alone.
49:29
It's one part of it.
49:30
It's one part of the package, but the package is...
49:34
is everything and if you don't have it these days you're not going to get the right opportunities you're not going to last long in the sport you'll get spat out pretty quickly I'd say you know be true to yourself always
49:48
Never forget where you came from and look for opportunities everywhere you go.
49:56
Don't ever think that everything you do in life is not another opportunity.
50:02
Every person you meet might be another chance at picking up another sponsor.
50:07
I've got one little story.
50:10
Go.
50:11
A guy called Tony Roberts, he's now with Banlaw, the company called Banlaw,
50:17
He was working for Fooks at the time.
50:20
when I was at GRM and he came...
50:24
Sorry, where was I?
50:25
Folks, that would have been after GRM because that was Balvoline.
50:30
Anyway, he came over and he took a couple of kids over, some friends, and he said, this is the, you know, can you just say g'day and whatever.
50:39
And so I took these kids for a bit of a tour of the car and signed autographs and had some photos with them.
50:47
And...
50:48
When everything went down at the start, at the end of 2020, he was one of the first people to call me and say, Hey, we want to back you.
50:58
I always remember what you did for me back in, buddy, whenever it was.
51:04
So it's just every little moment is like...
51:08
another opportunity to get a supporter that can help you along the way um but you have to show full commitment so although you know it's um it's brutal if you sacrifice your whole career um to motorsport and it doesn't work out which happens for a lot of people um i guess you can leave knowing that you've put everything into it but um
51:33
If you don't put everything into it, you're not going to go the whole way.
51:38
So you've got to fully commit, fully commit, and show everyone how much commitment you've got.
51:43
You have done that since day one.
51:45
Congratulations.
51:46
It's been awesome to relive a bit of this with you.
51:49
I know you have in the back of your mind aspirations to maybe in this post-full-time life go and do a spa or a Nürburgring or even a Le Mans.
51:58
I really hope you go and tick that box.
52:00
I reckon that'd be cool.
52:02
I know you've got more Bathursts in you.
52:05
Go and enjoy that.
52:05
Go and enjoy these final few rounds.
52:07
And, mate, you know, away from the racetrack, congratulations on what you've achieved as a dad, a dad.
52:14
as a human being, and just that sacrifice that you spoke about.
52:18
I know this was never an easy journey for you, but you made a full-time career out of it, mate, and I'm so pleased you're doing it on your terms now, and you've got something for the next chapter.
52:27
Cheers, Rusty.
52:28
Congratulations.
52:28
Appreciate it, mate.
52:29
You're a legend.
52:29
Awesome.
52:29
Cheers.
52:36
Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
52:40
Series editor and producer is Ed Gooden.
52:44
Audio production by Link Kelly.
52:46
If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
52:50
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52:52
It's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fueled stories.