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Jana O'Connor - ROI, MDF, and the Modern Partner Marketing Mandate · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Underworld, the podcast where we underworld the mysteries about channels and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effa and I'm excited to introduce our special guest, Jenna.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Jenna, how are you doing?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great, Effa.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for taking time.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the West Coast right now.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's really early.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for taking time, waking up really early for this podcast.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited for the conversation.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could give us a bit of an introduction, tell us who you are, where you come from, for our audience.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So my name is Janet O'Connor, and I think I have the best job at Sentinel One.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I lead global strategic partner marketing.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the industry for gosh, 28 years.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have a pretty deep cyber background.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was at Powell Alto Networks previously and Symantec before that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So like I said, I just feel like I have the best job with the company because I get to work with all of my marketing peers with sales and as well as our awesome partners.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm really excited for the conversation, Jenna, because you are a true veteran in the partner marketing space.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: You said you've been nearly 30 years in partner marketing and you've worked with all kinds of partners, you know, from MSPs to hyperscalers, which we'll get into later.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to start off with what's one of the biggest shifts that you've seen in the industry over time.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think partners have always been important, but I think they're really critical to a vendor's success today.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, especially in cybersecurity, I mean, it is so critical to the world today and everything that we do.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's definitely a team sport.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So no one solution or vendor is going to solve every customer's problems.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So having that connective tissue between the vendor as well as partners really, really drives great outcomes for your customers.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And here at Sentinel One, we call we lovingly call it the power of many.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So more partners working together, collaborating together definitely make for better outcomes for our customers.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, that's the mission, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Protecting our customers, driving better outcomes.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's definitely a change that we've seen in the industry.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think something else that's um really meaningful is the focus on ROI and execution.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think today, more than ever, dollars are tight.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're spending a lot of dollars with our partners, and there is definitely a desire and willingness to know how those dollars are being spent, number one, and the pipeline that they're driving.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the efficacy of all of our programs um, I think is under more scrutiny today and it as it should be.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those are just a couple of the things that I've seen change um over the course of time.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to start talking about the the ROI in MDF.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But before I get into that, I actually want to uh touch back on something that you shared.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: You said that over your career you've seen partners becoming much more critical.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like this is the case because the options out there have become so much more uh wider and broader?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So nowadays it's much harder for a customer to make a decision.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where the partner really comes as a trust advisor to help customers navigate that uh cybersecurity solutions.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of complexity, and there's um, you know, there's some scary stuff happening in the world today.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think customers are more and more relying on partners to, like you said, be their trusted advisor, help make the right recommendations, steer them to the right solutions, point out challenges that they have in their environment, and the right, the right um vendors that can help solve those problems.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think again, you know, for Sentinel One, that's really been one of our differentiators, really leaning into our partner ecosystem.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: We are a partner-first company.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so our business goes through partners.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So really finding the right partners, collaborating with them, um, and putting together the right services and solutions has really been critical to our success.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned, you've been doing partner marketing for nearly three decades now.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk now about a bit about the ROI and MDF because this is a shift that we always talk about in this podcast.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've seen over the last few years, especially that there's much more scrutiny from the CFO about like where our marketing dollars are going, what the MDF that we're spending, what do we get in return?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like maybe historically it was more, you know, there were like more events, wine and dines, where it was useful, beneficial, but there was not so much focus around how are we tracking the success of these programs.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear how do you approach when working with a partner, how do you approach that uh marketing program to make sure that it is going to yield a high ROI?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think really the key for me is aligning on the outcomes before you even move to execution, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like so talking with your partner, talking with your field sellers, talking with your channel sellers about what customers you're targeting, you know, is your specific vertical or sea level that you're going after, um, you know, how you're attacking those customers, so to speak, and driving them towards that engagement.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then also after the activity has happened, what's the follow-up?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't want to have a one-hit wonder activation, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want it to be multiple steps in a journey and in a process.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so really talking about how you're gonna set that up beforehand is very critical.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also using data to drive your decisions, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like after you've had a campaign or an event or an activation, really looking at the pipeline that you're trying to drive and what what was the outcome?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because you always want to go back to the data.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's you know, where your CFO wants you to go, certainly your CRL wants you to go, what activities you're driving the most pipeline, and those are where you always want to go back to.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think another piece that's that's really tough in terms of the ROI is enablement, partner enablement.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is so critical.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as we just said, you know, making sure that your partners are advocating for you and their customer base, you know, positioning you to help solve those customer problems, but they can't do that unless they're well enabled.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is something that is often difficult to quantify.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, at the end of the day, it demonstrates itself in revenue, but can you really pinpoint that that enablement session or that training that you did or that account mapping was really the thing that drove that?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's challenging.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think anytime you can tie something to an enablement activity, whether it's a spiff or an incentive that drives a certain outcome, I think you'll see better results in terms of tangible ROI for those specific activities.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the enablement piece is is is a little bit tougher.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree with you.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk about marketing, indirect marketing, you know, proving ROI is already hard and partner marketing is double hard.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And enablement, it's even a bit more vague.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely your you have a challenging job, Jana, for sure.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I love it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what makes it fun.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes it fun, exactly.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you mentioned also when we were preparing for this call, you talked about partner marketing as the connective tissue.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you were giving your answer, you talked about you know how you have to bring your field marketing, your sales, your channel teams together.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um as a partner marketing leader, how are you bringing those teams together?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: How are you breaking down silos to make sure that you drive alignment across different business units in the company within Sentinel One?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really do believe that partner marketing is the nexus of all of these things and where it kind of comes together.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's one of the things that really excites me about the job and has kept me in it for so long.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's a couple of things.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really transparency.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So transparency is trust.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're building a program or activity or a business plan, really again, understanding with your internal folks as well as your partner, where are the shared goals?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like what outcomes are you driving to?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also important to have a regular communication cadence.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, informal touch bases really just won't do it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to have a regular communication cadence.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think finally, again, after an activity is over, going back and looking at, you know, was it successful, what made it successful or unsuccessful?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And really framing that around key learnings and actions for next time.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to get into a blame game.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to say, well, if you had done this better, I had done this better.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, you know, we all have a shared goal.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what we learn from it, here's what we'll do different next time.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the hard parts about the partner marketing role is really operationalizing that transparency.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everyone knows that transparency is so important and that does build trust, but how do you operationalize that?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think is really important.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I try to do every day because if you're not out in front of that, um I think it just makes the job a whole lot harder.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So for everybody.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm so glad you said that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: That um make sure to drive that alignment is a critical piece as a partner marketing leader.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to pivot to a different topic.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You uh one of your strategic partners, one of your key partners is AWS, and you have invested heavily in that partnership.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of ISVs, we have a lot of vendors tuning in, and they're maybe working with hyperscalers with AWS, or they're thinking about, you know, strengthening that bond.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: From your perspective, what's been the biggest unlock in scaling that relationship with AWS and also making it truly impactful and making sure that it's delivering results?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I definitely think our Sentinel One's relationship with AWS is a key differentiator for us in the market.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think one of the things that really has a lot of synergy for the partnership is that AI is at the core of their platform.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's at the core of our platform.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've been doing AI for a decade.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's built into everything that we do, and so we we share that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think the meet in the channel piece is so important.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So channel partner private offers that really drives growth and scale a lot faster.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to unlock that has also been a real differentiator for us as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this not mentioned the integrations.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even touch on the integrations.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We have so many joint integrations together.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think part of it is the tech has to work, obviously, but then the part of it is also like the business, the marketing side, the alignment as well.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, keeping all of that going for us, which has really helped the relationship grow exponentially.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the the channel, uh the CPPOs you mentioned as well.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think they because when the hyperscales were first popping up, I think there was a lot of questions around like what's the role of the channel partners, what's the role of distributors, and maybe some people were like being a little skeptical like, are we out?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are we not going to be as valuable anymore?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that we've all seen that channel partners are still a critical role, play a critical role uh in hype in marketplaces as well.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's all about driving the best outcomes for the customer.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also customer choice and how they want to procure their solutions.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's it's really just helping the customer get what they need at the end of the day.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to see, you know, been following Hyperscales AWS closely.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: We also had some guests on the podcast as well.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've been following them really closely and excited to see the next evolution, the uh the next wave that we're gonna see.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I want to talk about a bit of more about culture, especially more about you have been a leader for a long time, partner marketing leader.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: What do you look for when you're hiring for your own team?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think makes a great partner marketer for those who are listening to us, maybe who wants to get into a partner marketer, who wants to become a partner marketing leader?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: What are the characteristics that you look for when you're hiring for your team?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that these jobs are often undervalued in terms of the skills that it takes to be successful.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you have to have a strategic mindset because you really have to understand the partner business model, your own business model, where the overlap is, how to align your marketing activities to the business plan to drive growth, not only today, but into the future.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to have that strategic mindset.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you also have to be a details and tactics person.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're often the same person who is putting together this big strategic marketing plan.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're usually booking the venue, you're usually uploading the leads after the event is over.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to work in both worlds.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's really tough.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say the last piece we already touched on in a little bit is being a good communicator and being able to reach across the aisle to the other folks in your organization and making sure that they understand how to work with your partner and how to influence and get the things that you need in order to make that partnership successful.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a really critical role in the organization.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sometimes, you know, it's tough to find somebody that can do all of those things and do them well.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I fully agree with you.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I always see as partner marketing as a complicated role because I think, as you said, you have to be a good generalist.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you need to have really good business arguments to, you know, go with partners and have that high-level conversation, you know, with their uh executives, but at the same time also be able to do all the detailed uh tasks uh that you have to do as well.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely a challenging role, as I said before, but I guess that also what makes it so enjoyable for you.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um you also before when we talked preparing for this podcast, you shared that relationships are something that you're passionate about.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um why is that so important for you?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe the second question is that what's the one relationship that's had a transformative impact on your career?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think really my relationships and my network have really shaped my career over the past almost three decades.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am still in very close touch with a lot of folks that I worked with in my first job in this industry at CG8 Software back in 1998.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I I value them, I hold them close, and I think they've really helped shape me both as a leader and as a person.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, it's it's really tough to distill that down to one person.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say I can kind of put it in two buckets though.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say the first is, you know, my relationships have really helped me navigate unwritten rules within an organization.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when I first started out back in the day, I was an excellent operator, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really could get stuff done.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I could really drive tactics hard, but I didn't understand, I think, the politics or the landscape of an the organization and you know, how to put that strategic vision in place.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, really the folks that I worked with helped me shape that and really helped me move from an excellent operator to a respected leader.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say that's one piece.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing is, you know, over the years, my relationships have really been an emotional safety net for me.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this industry can be really isolating.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: It can be tough.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, especially back when I started for women, there weren't a lot of women in tech.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so really just having people to talk to, a sounding board, um, you know, someone to share my um celebrate my successes, share my failures, you know, both in a professional way and in a personal way.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like these relationships got me through a lot of things, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like a divorce, the death of both of my parents, um, navigating all of that while also having a very stressful job.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I have a really good friend in this industry, and she's also a busy marketing executive.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we jokingly laugh.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like we rarely, it's so hard to find a time during the day where we can talk.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but our little joke is like seven minutes, because I call her and I'd be like, I have seven minutes till my next call.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have seven minutes?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I have seven minutes.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, let's catch up.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's talk about, you know, what's top of mind or what's happening today, or I have a question about this that you know you might be able to help me.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's kind of our joke.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I call her, I'm like, seven minutes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I have seven minutes, but no, I have seven minutes in two hours, so call me back.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like our loving little joke.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I would definitely say my relationships have shaped me for the better.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wouldn't be where I am today without them.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I I love that answer.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think also I always say this a lot, but like at work, we spend so much time with each other.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it just it it helps so much to you know go that extra mile to have that personal connection with someone, to be able to share your wins, your losses, your failures, both from a team development perspective, definitely like having mentors, people you can learn from, but also more as like a human, we are you know, humans, we are social beings.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it definitely helps you being more joyful, being at work, you know, enjoying the relationships, enjoying the people that you work with.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really big part of um having a fulfilled career, I would say.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's the best compliment too when somebody calls you that you've worked with and they're trying to navigate a challenge and like, do you have time to talk to me about X?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And my answer is always yes, because I want them to say yes when I call as well, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I also might learn something from the conversations I didn't know before.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and and I always want to help when I can.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think, especially today, like the market is so tough.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so having a solid network really, really helps.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I also I think it's also I think kind of feels good when people like reach out to you and like ask for your 100% about something.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I also always love to.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I always say yes.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I always say yes if I can help with anything.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing, Jenna, before I let you go, speaking about relationships, the way we continue the podcast is we ask our guests for recommendations.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So who do you think would be a great next guest on the podcast?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think a great next guest on the podcast would be Trisha Acheson.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So she leads Global Partner in America's Marketing at Equinix.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I have known her since the beginning of my career.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am very lucky to call her a friend and also a mentor.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she also always gives me great advice.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think your re your listeners would love to hear what she has to say.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Jenna, for joining us.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Tricia, I'll reach out to you and hopefully we can get you in a future episode.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for watching.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and thank you.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.