Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Breaking Your Family's Cycle of Addiction and Substance Misuse, A Family Story

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Breaking Your Family's Cycle of Addiction and Substance Misuse, A Family Story · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:02
  Patrina: I had had some friends with kids around the same age and there would be stuff going on with their kids, and there was definitely a school of thought of just let it be, you know, kind of put your head in the sand type of thing.
• 0:14
  Patrina: And I wasn't able to do that.
• 0:16
  Patrina: I remember people would say, oh, you just go through phases.
• 0:19
  Patrina: Like, this is just a phase.
• 0:22
  Patrina: But something inside me felt different that I, I just needed to pay attention.
• 0:37
  Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast and community created specifically for parents of teens and young adults who are misusing substances and struggling with mental health.
• 0:48
  Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, and I have been in your shoes with a child who is addicted to a high risk lifestyle and all the bad things that came with it.
• 0:57
  Brenda: Listen every week to gain clarity and understanding, learn new skills and best of all, experience real hope for what might feel like a helpless situation.
• 1:08
  Brenda: We want you to not just survive this experience, but potentially find unexpected growth and meaning through it.
• 1:16
  Brenda: You are not doing this alone anymore, and we're so glad you're here.
• 1:20
  Brenda: After the episode, hop over to Hope Dream community.org for more resources.
• 1:26
  Brenda: Hey friend, you are going to hear an amazing story today as part of our Hope Stream Family Story series.
• 1:33
  Brenda: These are real parents sharing the good, the bad, and the ugly that they have traveled through on their journey with their child's substance misuse and mental health challenges.
• 1:45
  Brenda: They are unscripted raw.
• 1:47
  Brenda: I have no idea what people are gonna say, and they're always very transparent, and I'm so grateful for these brave souls who are willing to share their story with you.
• 2:00
  Brenda: This episode delves into a mother's emotional and transformative journey as she supported and continues to support her young adult daughter.
• 2:10
  Brenda: Through an addiction to alcohol and finally into recovery.
• 2:15
  Brenda: She joined us in the stream community a little over two years ago and continues to do her work.
• 2:20
  Brenda: To this day, Katrina's daughter did okay until she got to college, and then as we say, the wheels fell off the bus with a lot of partying and some pretty abnormal behavior.
• 2:35
  Brenda: But.
• 2:35
  Brenda: Because of the addiction that was prevalent in her family of origin.
• 2:39
  Brenda: Pat Katrina experienced her own trauma response to her daughter's struggle where she was cold all the time.
• 2:46
  Brenda: Her nerves were completely shot and she did not need any convincing when a treatment program would tell her that this was a life or death situation for her daughter.
• 2:58
  Brenda: She was already painfully aware of that fact.
• 3:02
  Brenda: She wished that she could find a magic wand to just make all of this go away.
• 3:06
  Brenda: But as we all know, there isn't one.
• 3:10
  Brenda: Alongside dealing with her daughter's issues, Katrina shares what she learned as her daughter spent more time in the world of treatment.
• 3:18
  Brenda: She talks about her own coping mechanisms, including the mantra she uses to stay grounded.
• 3:25
  Brenda: This story, my friend, is one of hope, resilience.
• 3:29
  Brenda: And the incredible bond between a mother and her daughter as they navigate the challenges of addiction and recovery together.
• 3:37
  Brenda: Take a listen.
• 3:38
  Brenda: Enjoy Katrina.
• 3:54
  Brenda: Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 3:56
  Brenda: This is really special because.
• 3:59
  Brenda: We know each other over the last few years we've gotten to know each other, and I just think your story has so many lessons in it that other people will benefit from.
• 4:09
  Brenda: So I really appreciate you hopping on Hope Stream podcast with me.
• 4:16
  Brenda: You bet.
• 4:16
  Brenda: Happy to be here.
• 4:17
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Brenda: I was looking this morning at your profile in the stream, and you joined in January of 2023.
• 4:25
  Patrina: Okay.
• 4:26
  Brenda: Let's rewind and go back to January of 2023.
• 4:29
  Brenda: I do remember having a phone conversation with you and I just thought, oh, I just wanted to give you a hug.
• 4:36
  Brenda: I was like, I wish she wasn't so far away.
• 4:38
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 4:38
  Brenda: She just needs a hug.
• 4:40
  Brenda: So to whatever degree you're comfortable, what, what was going on in your life in January of 2023?
• 4:48
  Patrina: Well, January, 2023.
• 4:51
  Patrina: Was actually a really pivotal time in in my life.
• 4:56
  Patrina: I'm guessing.
• 4:57
  Patrina: The reason I I reached out to you in Hope Dream is because my daughter, who at that time would've been 26, 25, 26, she had been in and out of recovery for a few years.
• 5:12
  Patrina: She graduated high school.
• 5:13
  Patrina: She was a athlete in high school and pretty busy in high school.
• 5:19
  Patrina: She went off to college and at our local University of Colorado, Boulder Sea, Boulder, doing the college thing.
• 5:28
  Patrina: And during that time, you know, we spent a lot of time together.
• 5:32
  Patrina: I live in Denver and uh, we would see each other.
• 5:36
  Patrina: Pretty much weekly, I would say.
• 5:37
  Patrina: We would get together for our meal or go to a sporting event, and things were great.
• 5:42
  Patrina: We would travel a lot together.
• 5:44
  Patrina: Still around like 2018, 19, I started noticing that things were off and I really at first, couldn't.
• 5:56
  Patrina: Put my finger on it.
• 5:57
  Patrina: I didn't have a traditional college experience myself.
• 6:00
  Patrina: I went to night school while I worked, and so I really wasn't sure if what I was noticing was typical college behavior or I. Or not.
• 6:12
  Patrina: I come from a family.
• 6:13
  Patrina: My family of origin has a lot of addiction in it, and so I had expo been exposed to a lot of the chaos around addiction and sadness and even death around addiction, and so I.
• 6:28
  Patrina: When I was in this process of trying to figure out what was going on with my daughter, if she was okay, I just didn't know.
• 6:36
  Patrina: And, you know, I would talk to my daughter.
• 6:38
  Patrina: We would, uh, you know, try to have at that time pretty honest and open conversations.
• 6:43
  Patrina: And mostly what I got back was I'm just doing what everyone else is doing.
• 6:48
  Patrina: You know, you can walk into any apartment up in Boulder and.
• 6:52
  Patrina: This is what you'll see.
• 6:53
  Patrina: This is normal and, and everything.
• 6:56
  Patrina: So that would've been 2018.
• 6:59
  Patrina: And then around 2019, she went to treatment for the first time, a place in Hilo, Hawaii, and she was there for about 90 days.
• 7:08
  Patrina: Just, uh, she know we weren't really sure at that time if this was kind of like, you know, she's going through a phase or what was going on, but certainly.
• 7:19
  Patrina: Over the course of that year from 2018 until August of 2019, when she decided to go, things were pretty bad.
• 7:27
  Brenda: Was that a decision that she like?
• 7:29
  Brenda: I'm curious, how did that come about?
• 7:32
  Brenda: Because that's a pretty big decision to go to treatment inpatient for 90 days, especially that far away from home, right?
• 7:42
  Brenda: Yep.
• 7:42
  Brenda: How did that transpire?
• 7:45
  Patrina: So, you know, we had been, like I said, trying to untangle what was going on or even just figuring out what was going on.
• 7:55
  Patrina: There was a lot of scary things, you know, that would transpire scary for me.
• 8:00
  Patrina: I'm not sure if they were scary for her, just alarming things that that would happen.
• 8:05
  Patrina: And, uh, you know, like I said, I just tried to stay close to her and she was a junior in college at this point.
• 8:13
  Patrina: And.
• 8:14
  Patrina: You know, at this time wasn't really able to go to classes, wasn't, you know, she'd sign up for classes and would either withdraw or take it incomplete.
• 8:22
  Patrina: And from my perspective, we just kept talking about it.
• 8:26
  Patrina: Like, you know, does it seem like this is working?
• 8:29
  Patrina: It doesn't seem like it's working.
• 8:31
  Patrina: Here are some ideas.
• 8:32
  Patrina: At that time, I had, uh, been in contact with an education consultant.
• 8:38
  Patrina: They talked to, uh, my daughter and they talked to me and.
• 8:45
  Patrina: I feel like at some point, you know, she was miserable enough or she wanted to get me off of her back.
• 8:50
  Patrina: One of, of the other or the other.
• 8:53
  Patrina: Yes.
• 8:53
  Patrina: She would've been 22 at this time.
• 8:54
  Patrina: Okay.
• 8:55
  Patrina: So she was an adult.
• 8:56
  Patrina: She needed to agree this had to be of her own accord and so she, in a desperate moment, uh, when things were pretty dark, I think for her, uh, I made the offer, I had offered it before and made the offer if, if she wanted.
• 9:13
  Patrina: To go and, uh, she agreed.
• 9:16
  Patrina: We got on the phone with a couple places, one of them being the place in Hawaii.
• 9:20
  Patrina: And the way the admissions person described it sounded amazing.
• 9:25
  Patrina: Uh, we have a lot of experience in Hawaii and family memories, and they sort of painted it like it would, you know, you're on the.
• 9:34
  Patrina: On the ocean.
• 9:35
  Patrina: Yeah, there's yoga and Pilates and at that time I think we were both doing a lot of yoga and you know, it's just a time to kind of reset, get away and, uh, yeah.
• 9:46
  Patrina: So she agreed to go within 12 hours we were on a flight to Hilo.
• 9:51
  Patrina: That's
• 9:51
  Brenda: incredible.
• 9:52
  Brenda: It sounds like you had pretty good communication with her.
• 9:57
  Brenda: You know, I, I hear a lot of.
• 10:01
  Brenda: Examples of yelling and screaming and they won't talk to me.
• 10:04
  Brenda: And there was just, you know, there's so much friction and, and not a lot of communication.
• 10:10
  Brenda: But it sounds like you were able to be having this conversation.
• 10:13
  Brenda: Was that, is that true or am I just reading into that?
• 10:16
  Patrina: Yeah, I think that's true.
• 10:18
  Patrina: This was a very scary time for me.
• 10:20
  Patrina: It brought up a lot of stuff from my history that I really hadn't wanted to deal with, and at that time, seeing my daughter in this state.
• 10:28
  Patrina: I was a nervous wreck.
• 10:29
  Patrina: Like my nerves were shot.
• 10:30
  Patrina: I was freezing cold all the time.
• 10:33
  Patrina: I was in a trauma response pretty much 24 7.
• 10:38
  Patrina: I was one of the people that, you know, I know you're, you have experience with treatment, but you know, you, you kind of, I.
• 10:45
  Patrina: They tell you like, this is a life or death situation.
• 10:47
  Patrina: And I'm like, I get it.
• 10:49
  Patrina: Yes.
• 10:49
  Patrina: I don't need convincing.
• 10:51
  Patrina: Yes.
• 10:51
  Patrina: I didn't need, you know, my arm twisted.
• 10:53
  Patrina: I didn't need, like, I had firsthand knowledge.
• 10:56
  Patrina: So for my daughter though, you know, she's just going about her life again.
• 11:00
  Patrina: She's in college, she's seeing a lot of this herself with, you know, either her classmates or peers or friends or her community.
• 11:07
  Patrina: A lot of it looked like this.
• 11:09
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 11:09
  Patrina: And so while I'm like, Hey babe, I'm worried.
• 11:12
  Patrina: She's like, yeah.
• 11:13
  Patrina: This is what happens here.
• 11:15
  Patrina: This is normal.
• 11:16
  Patrina: This is what's going on.
• 11:17
  Patrina: So I, my guess is she didn't love me talking about it, and maybe inside she knew that it didn't have to be that way or that the pain was too great.
• 11:28
  Patrina: I. Yeah.
• 11:29
  Patrina: Was there like alcohol or weed or was there something in particular?
• 11:33
  Patrina: Alcohol.
• 11:34
  Patrina: Alcohol.
• 11:34
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Patrina: It was alcohol, yeah.
• 11:36
  Patrina: And for my siblings, you know, it was mostly drugs.
• 11:38
  Patrina: So like I said, I, I wasn't crystal clear on what was going on.
• 11:42
  Patrina: I didn't know if there was some, I, I didn't know.
• 11:46
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 11:47
  Patrina: All I knew is that my daughter was hurting.
• 11:52
  Patrina: You know that that's, yeah.
• 11:54
  Patrina: What was
• 11:54
  Brenda: crystal clear to me.
• 11:55
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 11:56
  Brenda: And the party culture at college is just so huge.
• 12:03
  Brenda: I just don't know how kids.
• 12:05
  Brenda: Get through it sometimes.
• 12:06
  Brenda: Really when I hear the stories and you, you know, especially between alcohol and marijuana, I would say like, how do any of them make it through?
• 12:14
  Brenda: I really don't know.
• 12:15
  Brenda: It's true.
• 12:16
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Brenda: What would you mind sharing?
• 12:18
  Brenda: What some of the things that you noticed were, I think it might just be helpful.
• 12:22
  Patrina: Sure.
• 12:22
  Brenda: Like what were some of those signals that were causing your your mom radar to go off?
• 12:27
  Patrina: Sure.
• 12:29
  Patrina: Well, there were a lot.
• 12:30
  Patrina: You know, I haven't thought about a lot of this in a couple years because it was a really hard time.
• 12:36
  Patrina: I think, you know, initially it would've been things like she was dating someone, a long-term relationship, and they would go out on whatever night it was, and sometimes I would get a message from him saying, Hey, we were out, uh, we got in a fight and she left.
• 12:54
  Patrina: She's driving.
• 12:55
  Patrina: And I just want you to know that.
• 12:57
  Patrina: I wouldn't feel good if something happened and I didn't let you know.
• 13:01
  Patrina: And that was one thing.
• 13:03
  Patrina: The other thing would be, you know, like I said, she would sign up for classes, have it all mapped out, and then she wasn't able to, to pass or complete the class or something like that.
• 13:16
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Brenda: Was her physical appearance changing at all or was she able to kind of hold that together?
• 13:21
  Brenda: Um, she was able to hold it together, yeah.
• 13:24
  Brenda: Pretty much so tricky, right?
• 13:26
  Brenda: When you're, yeah.
• 13:27
  Brenda: You're seeing one thing and then
• 13:29
  Patrina: you're like, and that's at college.
• 13:30
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Patrina: I mean, it ac it did progress, but in the beginning it was more like, you know, something is off.
• 13:38
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 13:38
  Patrina: Is, I'm not sure this is, you know, what, what I expected.
• 13:43
  Patrina: Right.
• 13:44
  Patrina: The other thing is sometimes she would text me late at night.
• 13:48
  Patrina: Uh, sometimes she would be crying just.
• 13:51
  Patrina: Things like that.
• 13:52
  Patrina: And I remember thinking at that time I had had some friends with kids around the same age.
• 13:56
  Patrina: And not that I was sharing all of my, my intimate business with them, but there would be stuff going on with their kids.
• 14:03
  Patrina: And there was definitely a school of thought of just let it be, you know, kind of put your head in the sand type of thing.
• 14:10
  Patrina: And I wasn't able to do that.
• 14:13
  Patrina: I remember people would say, oh, they just go through phases.
• 14:15
  Patrina: Like this is just a phase, but it.
• 14:19
  Patrina: Something inside me felt different that I, I just need to pay attention.
• 14:25
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 14:26
  Patrina: So she went to treatment.
• 14:29
  Patrina: It was a horticulture therapy program in Hilo, Hawaii.
• 14:32
  Patrina: She went there.
• 14:33
  Patrina: It was recommended that she.
• 14:35
  Patrina: They had said, you know, if, if you go now, you know you'll be home by Thanksgiving.
• 14:40
  Patrina: Like, let's just get that over with, let's just get it over with.
• 14:43
  Patrina: And so, you know, that was in my mind.
• 14:44
  Patrina: And so she got there and, uh, within a, I believe 24 or 48 hours, basically enough time for me to land back.
• 14:54
  Patrina: You know, because I dropped her off, come back Homeland and I get this phone call like, Hey, she's trying to sign herself out.
• 15:00
  Patrina: I'm like, what?
• 15:01
  Patrina: What?
• 15:01
  Patrina: I, I had never even heard that that was a thing.
• 15:03
  Patrina: And they were like, yeah, so you'll probably be getting a call from her and, uh, you know, we recommend you don't get her a plane ticket home and, you know, all of, all of the things.
• 15:12
  Patrina: But it honestly hadn't occurred to me.
• 15:14
  Patrina: I remember taking a deep breath after, you know, handing her off to the.
• 15:21
  Patrina: Director of the program and just being like, thank God, you know, she can, she can do her yoga and, you know, be in nature and what an amazing opportunity.
• 15:31
  Patrina: And yeah.
• 15:32
  Patrina: So pretty quickly, once she was there, you know, I, I learned that it wasn't gonna be so easy.
• 15:38
  Patrina: She did, she did finish the program and at some point, maybe like.
• 15:43
  Patrina: We had like a family program weekend where we came and spent it with her.
• 15:46
  Patrina: That was our first experience with that.
• 15:48
  Patrina: And I would say about midway through, they had said, you know, we don't actually really ever recommend.
• 15:56
  Patrina: People come straight home from this environment, we recommend aftercare.
• 16:00
  Patrina: And that was brand new information for me.
• 16:03
  Patrina: And, uh, so then I had to learn about that and of course talk to my daughter about that.
• 16:08
  Patrina: And yeah, so from Hawaii she went to a program in, uh, in Los Angeles, a women's program.
• 16:17
  Patrina: It was another private pay program, so they had a similar system.
• 16:22
  Patrina: It's like a inpatient when you first get there, of course, saying, you know, she'd been in this structured environment in Hawaii and now she'll go to this big city.
• 16:31
  Patrina: You know, so they kind of do a tiered system.
• 16:33
  Patrina: And she was there for a while.
• 16:36
  Patrina: 2019 she went to Hawaii, then 2020, she had been in LA for a little bit.
• 16:42
  Patrina: And then, you know, the pandemic hit.
• 16:46
  Patrina: She had been dating someone that she knew from before and, uh, was moving through the program.
• 16:53
  Patrina: It was like inpatient, then maybe something, you know, the middle sober living.
• 16:59
  Patrina: And then she went to an independent living program that they monitored.
• 17:04
  Patrina: And it was, uh, right away when she moved into the in independent living apartment that, uh, I'm, she, she, uh, drank again pretty quickly.
• 17:16
  Patrina: She had reached out to me that night, I think I was there.
• 17:19
  Patrina: I helped her move, got home and uh, got a text from her and it just felt off.
• 17:25
  Patrina: The text did, and I thought, huh, okay.
• 17:29
  Patrina: I could be, you know, something could have triggered me like this.
• 17:32
  Patrina: I could be making this up.
• 17:34
  Patrina: And it also, and it also feels a little off.
• 17:36
  Patrina: Mm. So I, you know, tried to go to sleep and then I think within about 24 or 48 hours, it was confirmed.
• 17:43
  Patrina: In Los Angeles that happened a few times and each time getting scarier and scarier.
• 17:49
  Brenda: Right.
• 17:49
  Brenda: And during a pandemic, so none of the normal routines or processes or protocols are even available, you know, from a like visiting standpoint or I just, I've heard story after story of how kids during that time.
• 18:08
  Brenda: Really suffered even more because of just the, you know, just some of the logistics involved with that.
• 18:16
  Brenda: Things beds weren't available or whatever.
• 18:18
  Brenda: And I remember when we talked, I don't know how many programs she had been in by that time.
• 18:25
  Brenda: I just remember it was a lot and mm-hmm.
• 18:28
  Brenda: You sounded.
• 18:30
  Brenda: So exhausted and so scared and so frustrated and like all of the emotions, right.
• 18:36
  Brenda: That we feel.
• 18:38
  Brenda: What was, what was sort of your internal dialogue going on with you in your head?
• 18:43
  Brenda: While all of this is sort of playing out over several years, this is not mm-hmm.
• 18:48
  Brenda: Just a like, well, it was six months.
• 18:50
  Brenda: This was years that you're dealing with this.
• 18:54
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Patrina: So by the time that I connected with you, three years would've passed.
• 19:01
  Patrina: And in that time, you know, I, I found a lot of tools for myself and I had the opportunity to do a lot of healing myself and a lot of internal work that frankly I didn't really wanna do.
• 19:14
  Patrina: I, I really felt like, you know, mo me moving away from my family of origin and creating a life here that.
• 19:21
  Patrina: You know, I had sort of checked that box that I wasn't gonna have to revisit any of that stuff.
• 19:25
  Patrina: So I, uh, I had, like I said, met a lot of people.
• 19:30
  Patrina: I connected with a lot of people and I had come to the realization that I couldn't fix this for my daughter.
• 19:37
  Patrina: There was no magic wand for her or anyone else that I love.
• 19:42
  Patrina: And so.
• 19:43
  Patrina: We were just kind of watching it play out and hoping for the best, hoping that she was alive, hoping that she would, uh, at some point be open to more help.
• 19:58
  Patrina: You know, another I.
• 19:58
  Patrina: Another try with treatment.
• 20:01
  Patrina: Yeah, she says, uh, I haven't actually counted the number of treatment centers she's been to or experiences she's had.
• 20:09
  Patrina: I listened to her tell a story recently, and I think she said nine times she was in treatment.
• 20:13
  Patrina: I. So that January that I connected with you in, in 2023, on January 30th, 2023, she went to treatment for the final time and she had been to this particular treatment center before and decided to go back this time, committing to a longer stay.
• 20:32
  Patrina: And, uh, she says fully committing to the program.
• 20:37
  Brenda: Isn't that I, I just had somebody on from a program talking about the average number of attempts is eight.
• 20:46
  Brenda: Is it?
• 20:47
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Brenda: It's so unbelievable.
• 20:50
  Brenda: Eight attempts at, you know, whether that's in a formal treatment setting or maybe that's, you know, going in and out of something like aa, but eight.
• 21:00
  Brenda: Attempts at treatment before finding lasting recovery.
• 21:04
  Brenda: So she's right with the program.
• 21:07
  Patrina: Yeah, I
• 21:07
  Brenda: believe it.
• 21:09
  Patrina: And it actually makes
• 21:10
  Brenda: sense, right?
• 21:10
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 21:11
  Brenda: I mean it's It's a lot.
• 21:13
  Brenda: And so she's having to.
• 21:15
  Brenda: Go through a lot of things in her brain of like, why am I doing this?
• 21:19
  Brenda: And I know you guys have a really close relationship and I know that had to have been weighing on her to some degree.
• 21:27
  Brenda: You know, I know when they're in active addiction, nothing quite is tracking as it should, but I know you guys have a. A close relationship.
• 21:35
  Brenda: And were you able to maintain that or did you have to have some boundaries?
• 21:39
  Brenda: Like maybe talk a little bit about some of the boundaries that you had to have because with an adult child, that is not easy.
• 21:46
  Brenda: You know, you are, you're really having to walk that fine line of protecting yourself and your emotions and your sometimes physical safety and, and all of that.
• 22:00
  Brenda: And still.
• 22:01
  Brenda: Motivating them and staying connected.
• 22:03
  Brenda: So maybe talk a little bit about what that was like.
• 22:06
  Patrina: Yeah, it was really tricky.
• 22:07
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Patrina: Since she was an adult, when all of this came about, uh, the only opportunity for her really to go to treatment is of her own free will.
• 22:16
  Patrina: So eventually she ended up discharging from the LA treatment center in, I think it was June of 2020.
• 22:25
  Patrina: And sh she was gonna live her life.
• 22:28
  Patrina: So that's what she did.
• 22:29
  Patrina: She came back to Colorado, lived her life, and it was then that I had to really learn about loving her in the best way that I could without being so involved.
• 22:44
  Patrina: Mm. What did that look like?
• 22:47
  Patrina: Mm, I did a lot of things.
• 22:48
  Patrina: It was a tricky time, of course, with the pandemic, but I literally had a list in my phone of things to do.
• 22:57
  Patrina: If, if I got too in my head about things or too worried or scared, could be as simple as yoga, Pilates, going for a walk, laying with my cat, writing in my journal.
• 23:09
  Patrina: I started hiking a lot at that time.
• 23:11
  Patrina: Yeah, I live in Colorado, so there's a lot of amazing backpacking and hiking.
• 23:16
  Patrina: So I started doing that.
• 23:18
  Patrina: Uh, when I was on those backpacking and hiking trips, oftentimes there was no cell signal.
• 23:23
  Patrina: So it was a kind of forced time away from, from my life, from from my worries.
• 23:29
  Patrina: It was just a time for me to be with my thoughts and to be in nature, which I've always loved being in nature.
• 23:36
  Patrina: So, yeah.
• 23:37
  Brenda: So helpful.
• 23:38
  Brenda: It is hard to, I know the, and you've been on a couple of our retreats, the like, when am I ever gonna be able to.
• 23:46
  Brenda: To turn my phone into do not disturb mode.
• 23:49
  Brenda: Right.
• 23:49
  Brenda: Or how, when am I ever gonna be able to go on a hike without cell service and be okay with it.
• 23:56
  Brenda: Like, there's some of those things that I think people just don't even think about.
• 24:00
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 24:00
  Brenda: Like people with healthy kids don't even necessarily think about that.
• 24:04
  Brenda: They just do.
• 24:06
  Brenda: It.
• 24:06
  Brenda: Was there, is there like a, a, a practice or a. Uh, something that you did that you kind of felt yourself go, continued to go back to that helped you get out of that freeze mode?
• 24:19
  Brenda: For sure, because I'm, I'm the same.
• 24:20
  Brenda: I'm like a, a freeze person.
• 24:22
  Patrina: Yeah, for sure.
• 24:23
  Patrina: At some point I had met, uh, somebody who did energy work and they gave me a mantra and it was when there's a fire on the mountain, the mountain remains still.
• 24:37
  Patrina: Oh.
• 24:37
  Patrina: Again, I'm in Colorado and we do have.
• 24:40
  Patrina: Fires in the mountains and it is true that no matter what happens up there, whether it's snow or a devastating fire, the mountain is still there.
• 24:51
  Patrina: So if you can just visualize a big, strong mountain and no matter what's happening on it or around it, the mountain is strong and grounded in the earth and it will stay there and remain still beautiful.
• 25:16
  Brenda: Hey, friend, can I tell you something?
• 25:18
  Brenda: If you're a mom navigating the heartbreaking, confusing journey of loving a child who struggles with substance misuse and mental health, I see you.
• 25:29
  Brenda: I really do.
• 25:30
  Brenda: When my family was in the deepest, darkest place, I felt completely alone.
• 25:35
  Brenda: I was terrified, exhausted, and had no roadmap.
• 25:39
  Brenda: That's exactly why we created Hope Stream, the community and support I wish we had had years ago.
• 25:46
  Brenda: The Stream membership isn't just another program that will tell you to let go or use tough love.
• 25:53
  Brenda: It's a lifeline, a place where you'll find real women who truly understand, who won't judge you.
• 26:00
  Brenda: And who will walk beside you with compassion.
• 26:03
  Brenda: We've curated resources, built an airtight private community, not on Facebook, and created a space where you can breathe, learn, and start healing, not just for your child, but for yourself because you matter.
• 26:20
  Brenda: Your journey matters.
• 26:22
  Brenda: If you're ready to feel supported, understood, and empowered, join us in the stream.
• 26:29
  Brenda: We can't wait to welcome you.
• 26:30
  Brenda: Visit Hope Stream community.org to learn more and join us today.
• 26:48
  Brenda: I can just imagine the stress of having a daughter out there living her life using alcohol in such an unhealthy way, and you having to keep yourself together and you have other family members and you have a job, and you have all of this other life that you're trying to show up for.
• 27:08
  Patrina: Well, there definitely was a period of time where I was curled up into a ball.
• 27:13
  Patrina: I wanna make that super clear where I wasn't functioning and I feel like similar to my daughter, that became too painful for me being so, uh, worried and miserable and unable to live my life wasn't working for me anymore.
• 27:35
  Patrina: So I literally had to find breadcrumbs.
• 27:39
  Patrina: You know, when I first.
• 27:41
  Patrina: Was introduced to this health issue in my family.
• 27:46
  Patrina: I didn't know of all the opportunities for, for parents or family members.
• 27:51
  Patrina: I had been exposed early on because of my siblings to Al-Anon, and I had immediately started going to Al-Anon meetings and once my daughter, you know, did go to that first.
• 28:06
  Patrina: Program in Hawaii and then to the others.
• 28:10
  Patrina: I just remember talking to the therapist, you know, on our little, on our little calls that we would have and asking like, what, what else is there?
• 28:19
  Patrina: I need more.
• 28:20
  Patrina: Are there books?
• 28:21
  Patrina: Are there.
• 28:23
  Patrina: I must be like so extra that I need more than just Al-Anon.
• 28:27
  Patrina: I literally remember saying that to the place in Los Angeles, like, is there, what do you know?
• 28:33
  Patrina: And the woman who owned the place in Los Angeles had 20 years sober or something herself, and she was like, yeah, it's pretty much Al-Anon.
• 28:41
  Patrina: And I was like.
• 28:42
  Patrina: Wow, okay.
• 28:44
  Patrina: So I continued with that.
• 28:45
  Patrina: But again, I would just get these little breadcrumbs.
• 28:48
  Patrina: I was a big listener of podcast, so I would, you know, search every little term that I could think of.
• 28:55
  Patrina: What are the moms like me searching for?
• 28:57
  Patrina: Like what are we calling this?
• 28:59
  Patrina: What are we?
• 29:00
  Patrina: And so little by little I would find resources and I would.
• 29:04
  Patrina: Just kinda latch on and learn everything that I could.
• 29:07
  Patrina: I mean, I learned about craft and invitation to change and took a ton of courses myself, took a peer recovery course and uh, I just wanted information.
• 29:18
  Patrina: I was so hungry for it.
• 29:20
  Patrina: I knew that I wasn't the only mother I knew that, you know, oftentimes people would say, oh, pray about it.
• 29:26
  Patrina: Well, I mean, moms are so strong.
• 29:28
  Patrina: If a prayer was gonna work, there would be no addiction.
• 29:32
  Patrina: Period.
• 29:33
  Patrina: Uh, a mother would do anything.
• 29:35
  Patrina: We would cut off our arm if we thought it was gonna help anything, I would take it on myself.
• 29:40
  Patrina: Yes.
• 29:41
  Patrina: You know?
• 29:42
  Patrina: Yes.
• 29:42
  Patrina: I just literally would not like to see my children suffer
• 29:45
  Brenda: in any way.
• 29:47
  Brenda: Did you find Hope, dream, and then through that you found our community?
• 29:50
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Brenda: Okay.
• 29:51
  Brenda: Exactly.
• 29:51
  Brenda: Okay.
• 29:52
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 29:52
  Brenda: And then you came to when, I think it was 20.
• 29:57
  Brenda: 22, our retreat was the first one that you came to in Park City?
• 30:03
  Brenda: Uh, the first one was the one in the, uh, in New York.
• 30:07
  Brenda: Oh, in New York.
• 30:08
  Brenda: Okay.
• 30:09
  Brenda: And then what I love about that is you all look at each other.
• 30:13
  Brenda: We all look at each other and we're like, oh, you're a great mom too.
• 30:18
  Brenda: You know?
• 30:19
  Brenda: So it's so helpful to see.
• 30:24
  Brenda: Oh.
• 30:25
  Brenda: You are not extra that you think you need all of this stuff.
• 30:28
  Brenda: You really do because you care so much and all of these moms care so much.
• 30:33
  Brenda: Right.
• 30:34
  Brenda: What was that experience like to be able to like meet in person with some of these amazing women?
• 30:41
  Patrina: Well, one of the unique things about finding another mom who has walked a similar path is that you don't, there's no like fluff.
• 30:48
  Patrina: There's just like, you can just get right to it and.
• 30:53
  Patrina: It's not like we sit around at those retreats and rehash things, right?
• 30:57
  Patrina: We don't even have to.
• 30:59
  Patrina: We all are, you know, we get it.
• 31:02
  Patrina: We've been in through a lot of stuff and it's really a retreat for ourselves to live and explore and do all the fun things that we do on those retreats.
• 31:12
  Patrina: There isn't a lot of sitting around rehashing, and if we needed to, we could.
• 31:18
  Patrina: Yeah, without any fluff, just get right to it.
• 31:21
  Patrina: Here's what's going on.
• 31:23
  Patrina: You know, start in chapter 11, here's where we're at.
• 31:26
  Patrina: Right,
• 31:27
  Brenda: right.
• 31:28
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 31:28
  Brenda: Yes, it's true.
• 31:30
  Brenda: Our tolerance for small talk and chitchat becomes very teeny tiny because we all know what's at risk and how much each other have been through, and I think that's so special to be able to lock eyes with somebody and say, I get it.
• 31:47
  Brenda: Yeah, there's an immediate acceptance.
• 31:50
  Brenda: I happen to know that your daughter's doing very well today.
• 31:54
  Brenda: She is.
• 31:55
  Brenda: Um, and so I would love to hear a little bit about how, how that's been going because you, you have to rebuild trust.
• 32:04
  Brenda: You have to rebuild a lot, right?
• 32:07
  Brenda: Because they've burned the house down usually by the point.
• 32:11
  Brenda: When, when they do find recovery.
• 32:14
  Brenda: So maybe talk a little bit about what that's been like for you guys to, to rebuild your relationship.
• 32:20
  Brenda: Mm.
• 32:21
  Patrina: I'd say, you know, our love has always been there, of course, but trust, I think, has come slowly.
• 32:28
  Patrina: Mm-hmm.
• 32:28
  Patrina: Uh, with, with the number of, you know, treatment experiences we had, there was always hope with each and every one that.
• 32:39
  Patrina: There would be new knowledge and new healing that would come out of them.
• 32:41
  Patrina: And, and there was, you know, I wouldn't personally go back and say that any of them, I think there was something gained from each and every one of them.
• 32:52
  Patrina: So I would say she's now over two years sober and she seems to be working a very strong program.
• 33:01
  Patrina: She's very connected to her community and.
• 33:05
  Patrina: Is living a great life.
• 33:07
  Patrina: And it seems like she's also taking things slowly and learning to trust herself.
• 33:12
  Patrina: And I feel like she would say she's learning to do things at her age that are really important and necessary to be a successful, independent adult.
• 33:25
  Patrina: Mm-hmm.
• 33:25
  Patrina: So she, she makes all of her decisions with a lot of insight from both herself, and she has a trusted group of.
• 33:34
  Patrina: You know, her confidants that she is able to bounce things off of, and in the end, she makes her own decisions and she does seem to be living a, a good life right now.
• 33:46
  Brenda: That's awesome.
• 33:47
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Brenda: How has it been for you watching that and, and how have you been able to kind of balance being involved with her in your relationship, but not necessarily involved in her recovery?
• 34:02
  Brenda: Because I think that can be a little tricky.
• 34:05
  Brenda: Sometimes we see them, you know, it's like, oh, like you wanna say something or check up?
• 34:11
  Brenda: Or, how are you doing?
• 34:13
  Brenda: Or, you know, how, how have you been able to manage that line of like, you're here, you're supportive, you have the relationship, but you are not managing her recovery.
• 34:25
  Patrina: Right.
• 34:26
  Patrina: So over time, you know, over these years since 2018, 19, the thing that has become crystal clear is none of this is up to me.
• 34:38
  Patrina: I can only take care of myself and I try my best to take care of myself, but whether it's my daughter or my husband or another, you know, my son.
• 34:47
  Patrina: In the end is up to each of us to take care of ourselves.
• 34:50
  Patrina: So it's hard sometimes to sort of sit back and I guess just trust in the process and trust that things will work out.
• 34:59
  Patrina: I do have, you know, people that I also confide in.
• 35:02
  Patrina: I, uh, have a woman that I am in touch with regularly through Al-Anon and, uh, somewhere along the way I found an Al-Anon for Parents group.
• 35:13
  Patrina: And this particular woman is different from any.
• 35:17
  Patrina: Other woman I know she leads by example and she doesn't give me advice.
• 35:24
  Patrina: And you know, she's just great.
• 35:26
  Patrina: And, uh, I'm able to bounce things off of her if I get worked up about something and she usually answers it with a personal story of something she's gone through.
• 35:35
  Patrina: So it.
• 35:36
  Patrina: It's great to have, uh, I've always had mentors in my life.
• 35:41
  Patrina: I've, you know, whether it's in business or, yeah, I've always just had a mentor to look up to and definitely in this recovery journey, I look up to her a lot.
• 35:50
  Patrina: That's really
• 35:50
  Brenda: special.
• 35:51
  Brenda: And you know what I love hearing is that you've created an environment around you that includes Al-Anon and it includes craft, and it includes.
• 36:00
  Brenda: Hope Stream and like it's not one thing.
• 36:02
  Brenda: 'cause I think sometimes people think, okay, this is gonna be the thing.
• 36:07
  Brenda: Right?
• 36:07
  Brenda: And it's a perfect example that you just gave of, I have this from this part of my life and I have this from this part of my life and this person supports me in this way.
• 36:18
  Brenda: And I think that's so important because we need like, it's no joke when we say it takes a village, right?
• 36:24
  Brenda: Takes a village.
• 36:25
  Brenda: It really does with our kids, but it takes a village with us also.
• 36:30
  Brenda: Otherwise you can, you can just get so tightly clung onto one thing or one person, and that also I would imagine has helped like with your other child and your husband, and because they need you to be supported.
• 36:46
  Brenda: Right?
• 36:46
  Brenda: Right.
• 36:47
  Brenda: Sometimes we feel guilty, oh, you know, I should, all the resources should go to my child who's struggling.
• 36:55
  Brenda: But when you get yourself supported.
• 36:58
  Brenda: That's a gift and a benefit to all the people in your life.
• 37:04
  Brenda: Right.
• 37:04
  Brenda: It's, it's so important.
• 37:07
  Patrina: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Brenda: What would you say to a mom or dad who's listening, who maybe is where you were in January of 2023, been at it for a couple years, still on the ride.
• 37:22
  Brenda: What?
• 37:22
  Brenda: What would be any thoughts that you would have for them?
• 37:25
  Patrina: I would just remain hopeful.
• 37:28
  Patrina: Reach out to people who have been where you are now and listen to their wisdom.
• 37:35
  Patrina: Be open.
• 37:37
  Patrina: We don't know everything.
• 37:38
  Patrina: It's impossible that we would be open to new information.
• 37:43
  Patrina: Yeah, so long as a person is alive, there's always hope and change can happen within them.
• 37:49
  Patrina: It's up to them and just.
• 37:52
  Patrina: I was never a big fan of cutting a person off or, or any of those things.
• 37:57
  Patrina: Uh, if you genuinely love someone, tell them, show them.
• 38:03
  Brenda: Well, that's of course music to my ears.
• 38:06
  Brenda: Always, always wanting to keep that relationship and it's tricky, right?
• 38:10
  Brenda: It's really tricky of how to do that in a way that, that you can be healthy and whole yourself, but it can be done.
• 38:18
  Brenda: And I just think you're a such a shining example of that.
• 38:22
  Brenda: So glad that your daughter's doing well.
• 38:23
  Brenda: I might have to snag her for an episode as well, just because I think she's, you should do it.
• 38:28
  Brenda: She's, she'd love it.
• 38:29
  Brenda: Really.
• 38:30
  Brenda: Yeah, she's really special.
• 38:31
  Brenda: So, well, thank you for joining me.
• 38:34
  Brenda: Thank you for sharing your story.
• 38:35
  Brenda: It's really generous and I know it's not easy to, to go back and talk about those things.
• 38:40
  Brenda: I know it can be really emotional and they are things that we'd rather sort of like file away in the, in the filing cabinet.
• 38:47
  Brenda: So I appreciate you bringing them out for a little bit just to help some other folks.
• 38:52
  Patrina: Thanks, Brenda.
• 38:53
  Patrina: I love seeing you and I love talking with you.
• 38:55
  Patrina: You too, my dear.
• 38:57
  Brenda: Okay, my friend.
• 38:58
  Brenda: If you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode, just go to Hope Stream community.org and click on podcast.
• 39:06
  Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related, including the full library, a search feature if you're looking for something specific, and also playlists, where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft recovery stories.
• 39:21
  Brenda: Solo episodes.
• 39:22
  Brenda: Siblings, we even have a start here playlist if you're new.
• 39:27
  Brenda: Those are super helpful, so be sure to check them out.
• 39:30
  Brenda: I also wanna let you know about a free ebook you can download if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance misuse.
• 39:39
  Brenda: The book is called Worried Sick.
• 39:41
  Brenda: A compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults misusing drugs and alcohol.
• 39:46
  Brenda: And it'll introduce you to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child versus distance.
• 39:53
  Brenda: And let them hit rock bottom.
• 39:55
  Brenda: It is a game changer.
• 39:56
  Brenda: It's totally free.
• 39:58
  Brenda: Just go to Hope Dream community.org/worried.
• 40:02
  Brenda: To download that.
• 40:04
  Brenda: You are amazing.
• 40:05
  Brenda: You are such a rockstar, a super elite level parent.
• 40:09
  Brenda: It's truly an honor to be here with you.
• 40:11
  Brenda: And please know you are not doing this alone.
• 40:15
  Brenda: You've got this tribe and you will be okay.
• 40:18
  Brenda: You'll make it through this season, and when you do, you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible.
• 40:26
  Brenda: I'm sending all my love and light and I'll meet you right back here next week.