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The Fig Tree Theory & How To Stop Feeling Behind In Life · Two Broke Chicks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on Gadigal land. Always was, always
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal land. Hey Chicks, I'm Al.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm Sal.
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  Speaker 1: And this is Two Broke Chicks, the show that shares
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  Speaker 1: life lessons and tips to help make you rich in life.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And today we're coming to you with a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of an updated refresh on a take that we've shared
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  Speaker 1: on the podcast a couple of years ago. But we're
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: going to be talking about whether or not the fig
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: tree theory is outdated. It's a very popular theory about,
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  Speaker 1: you know, values, priorities and where you want your life
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  Speaker 1: to go. And we want to take another look at
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  Speaker 1: it through a different lens and discuss kind of the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: conversation happening around it. But before we get into that
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Sally Bally love of my life, what are you obsessed with?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, my obsession of the week is an unsexy product.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, these are my favourite.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's changing my life. And it's the Scoop blotting papers. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Have you seen them?
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  Speaker 2: I got them from Adore Beauty.
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  Speaker 1: Scoop.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, S-K-O-O-P.
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  Speaker 1: Scoop.
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  Speaker 2: Scoop. Scoop.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know what just went into my head?
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  Speaker 2: It was Scooter. Scooter.
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  Speaker 1: Scooter. Yeah, totally.
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  Speaker 2: Scooter. These blotting papers, I wish I had them when
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  Speaker 2: we went to Europe and I'm so glad that I
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: found them before we've gone into Australian summer because I've
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  Speaker 2: never really been like a big blotting paper girly because
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  Speaker 2: I think I always associated it as a product that
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  Speaker 2: would be for people who have oily skin. I don't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily have oily skin. I'm more of a dry skin
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  Speaker 2: girly but I do get very sweaty and I find
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  Speaker 2: that it can be really hard to like blot basically
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: blot the sweat without ruining your makeup and I just
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  Speaker 2: saw these blotting papers at the checkout a few weeks
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: ago at Adore Beauty and I was like oh maybe
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I'll give these a go and they have two different
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  Speaker 2: kinds and they're just like these little charcoal blotting sheets
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  Speaker 2: and they're so good for blotting any apparently they are
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: really good if you do have oily skin and But
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: just as a sweaty girly, I found them very useful
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  Speaker 2: and found that they don't move my makeup too much,
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  Speaker 2: which I've really liked. And there's like 100 sheets in
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  Speaker 2: there and it was $ 15.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But when I got them, they were on sale for
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  Speaker 2: like $ 11 or something. They were doing a sale at
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  Speaker 2: the time.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that's cool. Yeah. My obsession is something of a
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  Speaker 1: similar vein to yours, your favorite saying ever. Mm-hmm. You
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  Speaker 1: actually haven't said that recently.
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  Speaker 2: Probably because you pointed it out. I need to bring
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  Speaker 2: it back.
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  Speaker 1: I will never say it again. No. You're so silly.
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  Speaker 1: Is that Loop have launched these like mouth tapes. Like
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  Speaker 1: you know how people– I haven't tried it yet but
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  Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. Yeah, okay. So there's these like– you've seen
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  Speaker 1: that mouth tapes is like a thing to help people sleep.
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  Speaker 1: I'm also not sure if this is just like– you know,
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  Speaker 1: the commercialization of sleeping and how, like, everything's like, and
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  Speaker 1: now this lavender potion, you spray on your pillow and
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  Speaker 1: you'll sleep for seven years.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that or if it's, like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the real deal. But basically, ages ago, Grace Beverly,
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  Speaker 1: this is also why I'm a little bit obsessed with it,
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  Speaker 1: Grace Beverly, like, posted on TikTok and she was like, look,
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  Speaker 1: I need someone to make this because I'm banned from
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  Speaker 1: building businesses, which I was, like, slightly obsessed with that.
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  Speaker 1: And she was like, can someone please make a hydrating,
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  Speaker 1: like lip mask for sleeping. Anyway, Loop has now gone
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  Speaker 1: and done it. Wow. And so basically it's like mouth
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  Speaker 1: tape but it's a hydrating lip mask as well.
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  Speaker 2: Fuck that smart.
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  Speaker 1: Isn't that smart?
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  Speaker 2: Two in one combo.
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  Speaker 1: Two in one. So Night Shift Hydrating Mouth Tape. It's
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  Speaker 1: $ 25 from Mecca and you get 10 in a pack. But, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's basically like overnight lip care. and then also the
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  Speaker 1: adhesive is like the side of the adhesive is the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: side of the mouth and like helps, um, Oh no,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: it said it should be avoided by people with nasal
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  Speaker 1: congestion or blockages, severe sleep apnea or certain respiratory conditions. Um,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: it's probably just like a safety thing to be like,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: if you can't breathe through your nose, don't cover your mouth.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Um, But yeah, I'm intrigued. Oh, would you use it?
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  Speaker 1: I have used mouth tape in the past. Yeah. But
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  Speaker 1: I think if you were going to invest in one
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: sleep product that, you know, if you're a bit nervous
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  Speaker 1: about the gimmickiness that's coming with like some of these
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: sleep products, the one thing I would actually shout out
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and do really love is also loop, but earplugs.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I got the loop earplugs when we went to, when
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  Speaker 1: we were traveling this year, we were traveling in Europe and-
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  Speaker 1: I love them. They're the sleepy dream ones. And because
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  Speaker 1: my issue with earplugs throughout my life, very obviously traumatic sounds.
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  Speaker 1: I'm making it sound like it's not that big a deal.
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  Speaker 1: But I just have very small ear holes. Yeah. So
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  Speaker 1: even with like AirPods or like earplugs, they always fall
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  Speaker 1: out or they hurt. But these you can change the size.
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  Speaker 1: I have such teeny tiny ear holes. I have to
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  Speaker 1: wear the extra small ones. You know, like they're just
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: so small. Oh, my God, your ear holes are so big, mate.
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  Speaker 1: It's so tiny. Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 2: It's giving the hand.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's giving the hand. Yeah, totally, totally. But, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: so I love those. So I might just be looping
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  Speaker 1: up my sleep.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: B-plugs, loop mouth mask. The whole thing.
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  Speaker 2: I really want to try the loop earbuds but the
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  Speaker 2: ones that are for like live music.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rob has those and he like raves about them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like always right next to the speaker and
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  Speaker 2: Chris is like, I can't with you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: He's like, I'm going out the back and I'm like, what?
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  Speaker 1: What did you say, Shani? You used my good ear.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: He's like, there doesn't exist. The limit doesn't exist.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, that I thought was pretty cool. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Well, report back if you try it. I will. I will.
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  Speaker 2: I will.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you. I'll do that.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get into the episode.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. So the fig tree theory.
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  Speaker 2: As you mentioned, we did cover this topic around two
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  Speaker 2: years ago and we talked about this vile concept of
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  Speaker 2: the fig tree theory. It's been around for a really
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  Speaker 2: long time, but I think when we spoke about it,
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  Speaker 2: it was trending on TikTok, which is why we brought
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  Speaker 2: it to the show again. But as a refresher, this
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  Speaker 2: is a concept from the poet and writer Sylvia Plath,
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  Speaker 2: which is taken from her iconic 1963 novel, The Bell Jar.
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  Speaker 2: Have you read this?
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  Speaker 1: No. You need to add it to your list. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think I could do it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's short.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: It's dark, but it's good.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: It's one of those ones that you just, it's a
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  Speaker 2: classic that you need to read, I think.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not big on the classics, though.
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  Speaker 2: You're not a, like, catcher in the rye, Gilly?
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  Speaker 1: I've read that in English class, but, like, I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: I think I've relinquished myself of, like, the pressure to,
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  Speaker 1: Like I think I felt like I had to read
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  Speaker 1: classics to be cool.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And like sound smart. Sound well read. Yeah. Whereas now
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, is there a smutty fairy lord in it? No. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: then don't worry about it. Yeah, totally. I read more
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  Speaker 1: for joy than for learning. Yeah, that's fair.
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  Speaker 2: That's fair.
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  Speaker 1: But that's never to say never. There are some that
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  Speaker 1: I read for learning, just fewer than I read for joy. Balance, balance.
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  Speaker 1: I like it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, for anybody else who hasn't also read The Bell Jar,
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  Speaker 2: the protagonist of the novel, Esther Greenwood, is experiencing what's
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  Speaker 2: known now as decision paralysis, essentially. So she basically can't
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  Speaker 2: decide what she wants to do with her life. And
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  Speaker 2: I think that's a concept that so many of us
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  Speaker 2: have experienced. And she imagines all of her choices in
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  Speaker 2: life presented on a fig tree. Mm-hmm. And for her,
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  Speaker 2: the fig tree is sectioned into goals like have a family,
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  Speaker 2: build a career, travel the world, experience fame because she
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  Speaker 2: wants to be an actress or something. Oh, cool. I
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  Speaker 2: love that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, she doesn't exist.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read the book in my first year of uni,
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  Speaker 2: so the details are a bit blurry. But, yeah, she's
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  Speaker 2: feeling all of these pressures.
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  Speaker 1: Like pulled in different directions of what she wants to do.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Wants to do everything so she does nothing. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And I think as well in kind of like the
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  Speaker 2: vision that she's having of this fig tree, certain figs
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  Speaker 2: start to like wither away.
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  Speaker 1: And fall off and die.
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  Speaker 2: So she's like feeling quite a lot of paralysis because
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  Speaker 2: she's like, well, while I'm maybe tending to my raise
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  Speaker 2: a family fig, the fame fig is shriveling up and dying.
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  Speaker 2: And it's this, yeah, I guess this concept of like
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  Speaker 2: that you need to have it all.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting. It's such a cool point because in today's world,
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  Speaker 1: the trend involves making your own fig tree with each
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  Speaker 1: fig representing one of your hopes you want it to be.
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  Speaker 1: So like it's kind of been taken as that example
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  Speaker 1: and then people are applying it to their own lives.
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  Speaker 1: So for example, a fig tree could include things like
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  Speaker 1: become a teacher or be a good friend or become
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  Speaker 1: a content creator, for example. And it started online as
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  Speaker 1: the trend that we were talking about a couple of
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  Speaker 1: years ago in 2023, and it went viral in 2024.
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  Speaker 1: And there's more than 7,500 posts on TikTok with the
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  Speaker 1: hashtag fig tree analogy. And the hashtag fig tree has
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  Speaker 1: more than 26 million views. So it's definitely made the rounds. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You know, fair to say. But it was also referenced
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  Speaker 1: in an episode of Love Island UK last year when
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  Speaker 1: a contestant named Shakira Khan brought it up when talking
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to another contestant. So it's really weaved its way also
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  Speaker 1: into not only like social media and, you know, lifestyle conversations,
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  Speaker 1: but also pop culture.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Why is it perhaps losing its meaning? When we
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  Speaker 2: first talked about the theory in 2020. we were talking
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  Speaker 2: about how the fig tree theory came from Sylvia's character
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  Speaker 2: of Esther realizing that she didn't need to do everything
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  Speaker 2: and that she could be fulfilled without having to be everything.
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  Speaker 2: And that maybe she could have a fulfilled life even
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  Speaker 2: if she didn't tick off all of the figs or
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  Speaker 2: she didn't pick all of the figs that were on
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  Speaker 2: the tree. And this is definitely still useful for some people,
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  Speaker 2: especially if they do feel like they have that need
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  Speaker 2: to direct their energy into one or two specific things
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  Speaker 2: or if they're struggling with decision making, kind of like
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  Speaker 2: we were talking about with the four burner theory in
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  Speaker 2: a previous episode.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's definitely a bit more of a fresh take
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  Speaker 1: on this theory, which is going to happen when something
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  Speaker 1: kind of, you know, comes to the spotlight of conversation online.
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  Speaker 1: Especially when it's a theory that was written in a
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  Speaker 1: book from 1963.
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  Speaker 2: From 1963.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there are some that are saying this fig
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  Speaker 1: tree theory is a bit outdated and it doesn't have
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  Speaker 1: this one size fits all approach that we kind of
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  Speaker 1: believe it to have. So there's an article on the
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: shit you should care about sub stack and it's a
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  Speaker 1: great point of inspiration for this change in perspective. So
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: in this article, the writer talks about how she went
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: through a few life changes, including moving back in with
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  Speaker 1: her parents at the age of 27. When this happened,
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  Speaker 1: she reflected on all of the life paths she could
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: have taken. So like how she felt like she was
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  Speaker 1: too far into her career to change anything, how she
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: felt she was behind romantically and she felt like she'd
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  Speaker 1: missed all of her chances to pick the other fruit. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: They'd withered. They'd fallen off the tree.
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  Speaker 2: Dead.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. There was caterpillars all in them. But there's this
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  Speaker 1: idea that if you pick one fig, the others immediately
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  Speaker 1: rot away. And I think that's where I agree with
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  Speaker 1: this kind of, you know, updated perspective on this, that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, in the traditional sense, it was, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you can have two figs and that can be enough.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And just let the others die and fall off the
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  Speaker 1: tree and get caterpillars in them.
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  Speaker 2: But.
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  Speaker 1: That's not necessarily true that if you pick one fig,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: then the others immediately fall away. But it's that there's
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: more time and you can go to different figs. Yeah. Essentially.
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  Speaker 1: So actress Halle Berry says you can do it all,
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  Speaker 1: just maybe not at the same time. I love that.
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  Speaker 2: I think that is such a fresh take and perspective
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: because while I do think that this fig tree analogy is– Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Probably not.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of women especially really
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  Speaker 2: identify with this theory, which makes sense. And because, you know,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of the pressures that women do feel do
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  Speaker 2: feel like they have an expiry date to them, especially
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  Speaker 2: if it does come to having children and.
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  Speaker 1: Raising a family. Women do have to often end up
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  Speaker 1: sacrificing a lot of their wants in order to cater
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to other people's needs. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But I think it's just remembering that even if you
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  Speaker 2: decide to prioritize one area in your life, it doesn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: mean that you can't ever come back to the other
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: things that you prioritized or that, you know, that you
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: maybe want to prioritize in the future or just this
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: pressure to have it all. I think that is something
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that women feel like they need to do, especially the
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: modern woman. Like you need to have a successful career
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and also be able to go home and be present
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  Speaker 2: with your children if you, you know, choose or do
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: have them. But also like, you know, have a partner
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: but not be too reliant on them. And it's the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Barbie manifesto essentially.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I love that scene.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the contradictions of being a modern woman and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: how hard that can be. But have you ever felt
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: like that? Have you ever felt like you've gone too
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: far down a certain path and you're like, fuck, like,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: all these other opportunities that may be passing me by
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: or anything like that?
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  Speaker 1: I think for me it's more like I wish I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: did something, like I would have wished I did something sooner.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Or like I felt like I should have learnt about
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: something sooner and I was out of my depth in situations.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: You know, and being like, oh, I wish I started
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: doing that when I was this age and I wish
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I started learning about that at uni instead or maybe
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I should have like not spent, like it, Very much
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I think hindsight is something that has like sat on
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: my shoulder and whispered in my ear being like, you
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: dumb fuck. Yeah. You know?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Being like, I wish I could go back to my
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: younger self and tell them this.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But then when I kind of do think in
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that way, which, you know, sometimes it's helpful. Sometimes hindsight
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: is a very, very helpful thing to be like, kind
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of regret that, wish I didn't do that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: But I do think mistakes exist and choices exist that,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: is why you will potentially like, let's say you do
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: something in the past that you regret that you're like,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think that was the best choice. And that
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: was the best version of myself. It's only through making
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: maybe those choices that you realize that that's not who
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you want to be. That's not who you want to become.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And so you end up becoming a better person because
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: of maybe some of those things, or like you end
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: up prioritizing, you know, this is kind of a boring example,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: but like, I've been like, I wish I was better
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: with my money. I wish I was better with my
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: money when I was younger. You know, I lived at
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: home for a strong portion of when I was working
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a lot and there was no savings account. I was
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: like Princess Polly Hall, Tiger Mist Hall, Show Pearl Hall
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: every Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And, like, I never saved any money.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I remember, like, a colleague telling me, like, you live
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: at home and you don't pay rent. You could be, like.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you could be buying a designer handbag every single month
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: if you wanted to because, like, that's how much it
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: costs to pay rent. But I wasn't paying rent and
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I wasn't saving any money. Yeah. But then I'm sitting there,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, where did that go?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And, like, I don't know. I never will know. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: But the thing is I could look at that and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: just look at it and be, like, really annoyed at myself.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: But now I use that as a thing to be like, okay, well,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: take that annoyance and use it as motivation to like
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: actually make better choices now. Yeah. I don't know if
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I've gotten too far away from the analogy really.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: No, I think that is completely relevant because it is
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: really easy to agonize over all of the things that
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: you didn't do, you know, right in quotation marks or
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: didn't do at the right time. But what's the point
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: in that if you're not going to make a change
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and not at least learn from it?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: There was a song. You saw me want to do it.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, I can't laugh yet. No, I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: was like, no, don't do it. It's not karaoke. But, yeah,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and like the other thing and there's been so many
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: points in my life that have, you know, brought sadness
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: and heartache and, you know, heartbreak. But I very am
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: always like if none of those things happened, none of
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: the things that I love in my life so much
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: right now would exist.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Like none of them. We've done the mind map, you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and me, after a couple of drinks on a Friday
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: night being like, so this didn't happen and this didn't happen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: It's getting Charles Darwin evolution.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Seriously. And so it is like that thing that I
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: do very much try to not, it's not to say
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I don't have any single regrets in life at all. like,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I regret if I've ever hurt anyone's feelings.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I regret, you know, if I've made the wrong choices
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and that's affected other people or in those situations. But
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: in terms of like regretting a relationship or, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: regretting a job that I fucking hated.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I try not to have those regrets as much anymore
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: because as annoying as it is, like mum was right
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and everything does happen for a reason.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I know. Yeah. I think.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of the time that is the case. And
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I use that as a comfort in the moments as well.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Like if there is something that I'm like, I'm a
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: sad puppy, I'm like, there's got to be something.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: There's got to be a juicy.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Lesson out of this. And there's never a moment, like
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you never think it in the moment. Like in the
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: moment when you decide you're like, no, no, nothing good
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: is going to come from this. But in like five years'
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: time I'm like, if that didn't happen, then like these
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: three things wouldn't have happened and then, yeah. So it's
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: sometimes a nice comfort. Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And I think that is important to acknowledge because those
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: sorts of feelings of feeling like that maybe you're left
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: behind in life or you've made the wrong decision or
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: you regret things that you've done in the past can
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: be really isolating because it's your life and a lot
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of the time it mainly is impacting you or just
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: weighing on you. And I think a lot of people
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: feel a lot of shame sometimes and don't necessarily want
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to talk about it or share it, but it is
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: something that I think a lot of people do feel. Like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: for example, 52% of people in Australia want to wish
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: they had chosen a different career.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: That's over half of people wish they had chosen a
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: different career, and that is particularly among millennial and Gen
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: X workers. Wow.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Crazy is like the amount of, I have this reoccurring
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: nightmare that I have to do my HSC again.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And I've told you about this. I don't know what
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: is in it. I need to go to some.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Therapy. Yeah. Okay. Dream therapist.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They also have like past life. hypnotists. Scary. Yeah.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I have this like reoccurring nightmare that I
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: have to do my HSC again. I haven't been studying
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: for it because obviously I'm fucking 30. Yeah. And so...
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: But I'm like– and I think I had it last night.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's raw. The wound is raw.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I think I had this– fuck. And in my dream
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I asked mum for my old math tutor's number and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: her name was Vicky. Vicky, please. I asked her and
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: mum was like, why? And I was like, because I
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: don't know any of the math.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: The exam's next.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Tuesday and I'm fucked. And then I'm like in the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: dream I think I was like, why did I choose math? And– Oh,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: my God. I'll tell you about it later.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, damn.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Josie, what does it mean? That was a bit of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a side quest of a storyline. Sorry about that. But
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: it's more like there's so much pressure when you're literally
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: a child to be like, what do you want to do?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: For the rest of your life.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is your personality, you.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, like, you just have to do this. And
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I'm, like, a completely
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: different person to who I was when I was 17.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And I think if you weren't, that would
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: be concerning. Like, if you're the exact same person that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: you were... In every single way.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: In every single aspect. You can still like the same
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: things and still enjoy the same things.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I'm still very much the same person but in so
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: many ways a completely different person.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I'm more similar to who I was when I was
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: like 13 than when I was 17.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: That's womanhood. That's feminism right there. I think that explains
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I have more in common with like my 12-year-old self.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Than my, like, 18-year-old self. I don't know who that was.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: She scares me.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Freak on a leash.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Freak on a leash. Honestly.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I'm leashed, actually. Lock her up. Yeah.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: You know those, like, underground prisons they used to put, like,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: pirates in in Pirates of the Caribbean?
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Put her in there. Yeah. And, like, put the manacle
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: on her foot as well because she'll chew it off.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: She was scary. Love her, though.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Love her. Good on her. We learnt a lot of lessons.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: We learnt a lot of lessons.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But I think I just wanted to bring that in,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: that it can feel really isolating to experience or have
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: those thoughts, but that it is, I would say, like
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: a pretty universal thing. to remind people that the biggest
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: barrier for people who do regret their career choice is
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: fear that it's too late to make a change. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I think that could be applied to so many situations.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you did really make a good point in
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the above as well that, like, there is a lot
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: more progression that we've had since this original text, the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: ancient text was written, right? You know, like, this was written...
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Sylvia Plath wrote this as a metaphor and it very
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: much is a reflection of the time and also it
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: still does acknowledge a lot of what women go through now.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: But it also was written before the second wave of feminism,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: which was when people started fighting for women's rights to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: make choices about family, sexuality and workplace responsibilities, expectations. And
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: today a lot of women can have more than one
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: thing in life that's you know not to reference all
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: women there are still you know a lot of places
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: in the world where women do not have as many
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: rights as they should you know but in terms of
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: this the context of this article that we're talking about
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: from shit you should care about and this fig tree
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: theory there's more choice and more freedom you know we're
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: seeing more statistics about how by 2030 45 of women
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: are going to be single because there's decreasing pressure on
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: women culturally and financially to get married and have babies. And,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of women are choosing more than
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: one thing in life for a lot of the time.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And still today, a lot of success on a woman
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: is to get married and have a family. Like those
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: are really like the two things that after you turn 21,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: like those are mainly the most commonly celebrated things for
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: a woman.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Which is... depresso expresso yeah you.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Know like two things worth celebrating but like what else
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: yeah like sure yes love that like let's be like
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: woo but both of those things are the things we
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: celebrate women for the most are two things that are
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: attached to another person.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Like that sucks right like yeah having a baby is
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: very exciting and I'm sure you love your baby and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that sounded so insincere but like and then the other
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: thing is like cool you're marrying you're getting married And
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm talking in this instance that it's heterosexual relationships, obviously. Yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: But now, you know, we are in this fourth wave
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of feminism where we're really kind of rebelling against the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: act of like, why can't I have it all? You know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: why should I have to sacrifice my wants for your needs?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where like the rebellion against the
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: fig tree theory can kind of, become like a really
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: good topic to think about for yourself is like the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: other figs don't have to die. Like, yes, sometimes like
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: life will need to pull you in certain directions to
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: prioritize certain things, but it doesn't mean those things are
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: never going to be for you. It doesn't mean that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: like if you change your mind as well that the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: figs aren't there anymore. But you can say like, no,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I really want to focus on accounting. I'd be like,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: that is, I really want, or like, let's say being
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a teacher. Like, I really want to be a teacher.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I really love that. That is my passion. And then
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: let's say you get to 40 and you're like, damn it,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I really wish I was a singer. I wish I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: went into musical theater. But you're like, but it's dead. No,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: it's not. There are so many women in history, and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: we've referenced it on a podcast before. I don't have
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: the list off the top of my head, but found
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: their success later in life. You know, Bridget Hustwaite talks
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: about it in her book, Figuring Out 30. You know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: like Oprah, Vera Wang- So many people found success later
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: in life because they didn't look at their fig tree
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: with only two figs left on it. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: So how to reframe your fig tree. Women have been
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: told for so long that they need to fit in
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: a certain mold and it's simply no longer accurate. Like
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: we're no longer tied down by a singular identity and
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: by a specific timeline that we all need. to follow
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: and I think that's the thing because this concept of
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: like women can have it all I think in some
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: ways is really empowering but also it puts a lot
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: of pressure on women I agree however I do think
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that the concept of women having it all is about
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: choosing what that all looks like to you yeah and
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be the traditional milestones that we
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: typically would associate with a successful fulfilled life for a
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: woman and that's a big part of it is finding
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: what that balance is for you between doing all of
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: the things that you want but also ensuring that you
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: don't burn out in the process or that, yeah, you're not–
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I guess like I think a lot of women are
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: really striving to prove that, no, I can do it all.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I can have all of these things. But it really
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: is about still making sure that you're taking care of
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: yourself and balancing some of those things because at the
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: end of the day, women and just people in general–
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: need support and they also need autonomy and the freedom
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to choose what they want because it's going to look
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: different for everyone and the thing about the fig tree
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: is that I think a lot of people looked at
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: it and the figs as the same ones that were
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: on Esther Greenwood's fig tree but it is like what
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: is going to be on your fig tree and Which
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: is customisable. Yeah.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Like Lego.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, precisely.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Never played with Lego in the last 20 years
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: of my life.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Let's bring her back.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Those chic flower bouquet ones, we could get those for
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the office. We would get bored in like 30 minutes.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'd make Liv finish it.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We would like, we'd be like, we tried to
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: crochet this. It for five minutes.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, neither of us are good with like little finicky
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: things with our hands. Anyway.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I actually just like blacked out a little bit. I
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: wanted to throw up. The idea of putting a thread
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: through a needle hole, that's my hell loop.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be my hell loop.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: That's my hell loop.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: If you really wanted to torture me.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: When you have to sew and you have to get
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: that little bit of thread and you have to put
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: in that tiny fucking hole, I actually want to break
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: out into tears. That's my hell loop. That or... Like
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: standing in line and then– but I think the needle
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: one is probably– Is really bad. That's the one that's really–
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I don't like that one. Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Anyway. Anyway. We're going to call this prioritise fulfilment and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: if that means going after three or four of your
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: figs at once, then go for it.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I think like just check in with yourself.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, you know where your energy levels are at.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: If you're like, fuck it, I want to go balls
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to the wall for a year and just smack it up,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: smack it in, go. Do it.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: You know? But there's also another way that you can
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: look at it called the self-determination theory. And this was
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: developed by psychologists Edward Detchie and Richard Ryan. It's the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: idea that there are three main components required for motivation
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and well-being. Number one is autonomy, feeling in control of
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: your own goals. Two is competence, being skilled at tasks
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: and learning new ones. And then number three is relatedness.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: So feeling a sense of belonging to others. And even
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: as I list those out, I'm like, yeah, those are
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: all three things that I really value. Like that I'm like, yeah,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I want to feel competent and useful and helpful. I
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: want to feel like I'm in control. Like if the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: day feels like it's, running away from me, then I'm like,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: what is going on? Not good.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I don't like that.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Not good. And then like relatedness, yeah, belonging to others,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: having a sense of kinship is so important.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: How good's the word kinship?
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I really liked throwing that in there. I didn't know
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: if you would, yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I picked it up.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: You put it down? Yeah. It's up. It's up.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Kinship.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: You're my kin. Yes.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Love that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I just spoke to you the same way I talk
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to my cats. I literally was like, yes. And I went.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: And you're like, wow.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So when these needs are met, people experience a stronger
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: sense of like intrinsic motivation and engagement with their endeavors.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: All three of these are necessary to pick your figs
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and they don't restrict how many figs you can pick
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: from your tree. You can have as many figs as
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: you want. Eat up, girl. You know? Like get 5
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: billion figs, 50 figs, 5 figs. You can have as
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: many figs as you want. Is it figs? Is it
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: the word figs?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: As long as you feel like your choices are a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: good exercise in these three attributes, then it's filling your
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: motivation cup.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I like that. Also, embrace a TV show mindset.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love this. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Think of your life as a TV show and every
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: two to three years is one season of the show
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: because characters in TV shows have entire arcs and go
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: through a fair bit of character development. And it's not
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: common that a character in a show will be exactly
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the same. at the start as they are in the
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: final episode.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Hopefully they're not. Yeah, because that would be boring. Then what?
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Like most of the time when you're introduced to characters,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you know, they're flawed.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: They are growing to do. Yeah, to do. Yeah, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: there's different. Unless you're Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah. Same.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Bitch. That's exactly what I think. Big took me off
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: his fig tree. That would be our episode.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, he would have it like at home. I
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: doubt it wasn't on Big's fig tree.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And Miranda's like, for fuck's sake.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: She's like, the fig tree is supposed to be about
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: your priorities. And she's like, but he was on mine.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: But big. Bonjour.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Honestly, but just like these characters do in our favorite
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: TV shows, every season you can pick a new fig
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: or two or three and you can separate it into
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: your major plot. So that could be a career change
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: or a degree or maybe a gap year, starting a business,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: starting a family. Like that thing that you were saying,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: you really want to throw balls to the wall. That's
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: like your major plot line. But then also there's always
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: the B storyline.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: What's the minor plot?
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Like you can still do those things, but also pick
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: up a new hobby or, you know, go on a
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: road trip for a weekend or grab coffee with a friend.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Like those are all side quests and B plot lines
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that we still can have, even if we're really focusing
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: on the major plot line. And then once your season
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: is wrapped up, once it comes to a natural end,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: then you can either keep some.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: You're dead.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: You're dead. Actually, you get picked up by HBO.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Max and then you have a less successful spin-off. No.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't know where you were going.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And you brought it back. I was like, what?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: You're like, she's lost it. No, but seriously.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Good job. That needs to go in your brag folder.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I like that. Oh, my gosh.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: No, but seriously, once your season is wrapped up, you
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: can either choose to keep some of the plots that
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: you are happy with and are still giving you some
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: good storyline or you can add different ones, drop other ones.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: You're not dead. Sorry.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: But.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I like that because I always love when people, like
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: if you were in, like when you're 30, you're in
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: season one of Sex and the City. Yeah.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Like I think that's a good way to look at
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: life and to look at some of the characters that.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: We really look up to. And, of course, it's fiction.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: What? Yeah, I know.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: It's not a documentary?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I wish. I wish that I could write one column
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: a week and have her shoe collection.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Are you joking? She doesn't. Oh, my gosh. And she's
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: just wearing like vintage Dior saddlebags. Yeah. You bitch.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing. I'm willing to give them that
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: creative license so I can enjoy the outfits. That's more
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: of a benefit to me than what the reality would be. True.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: But I do think like adding an element of whimsy
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: and romanticism to how you prioritize and think of your
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: life is never a bad thing.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Completely agree. And I think we should end the episode
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: on a final thought from the Sheet You Should Care
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: About article which says, eat all the damn figs.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Yum.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: It's not about having it all, it's about having your
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: all and I really like that. Well, that's a wrap
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: for today's episode.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us in your ear holes, Jix.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: We love to be here.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Miss you. And that's a wrap. Bye-bye.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Go eat a fig. Bye. Go eat a fig.