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Alex Murdaugh Defense: ‘Killer is Short’ · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. The jury is on their
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: launch recess. We all hustled away from the testimony to
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: join you live a lot happening in the courtroom. The
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: defense is taking the lead right now. We saw the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: remaining surviving son, Buster Murdog on the stand, and boy
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: do they need a friendly witness because, let me tell
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you something. We now learn that as he is standing
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: next to his dead wife and dead son, their bodies
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: riddled with bullets, Alex Murdog takes time to look up
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a local restaurant and take a gander at a bikini picture. Yes,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you heard me right, take a listen to this I
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: think you have in the timeline. Later on, he reads
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: some spam text message about I think there's a picture
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of a woman in a bikini. I wouldn't call a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: spam text message. It's from Michael Gunn, who would be
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: one of his friend group text a group text. Yeah,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And then he googles the name of a restaurant and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: at a stove beach. Is that correct? That is what
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: comes up on his phone. So he would seem to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: be in a state of shock. He's none of that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: makes any sense, does it? You're not going to google
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the name of a restaurant after you find your son murdered.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not Alex murder. I don't know what he was
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: thinking that that moment probably wouldn't be on my phone.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Do you believe he was googling a restaurant or do
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you think he was fat fingering the phone because he
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was in shock. I have to go off of the data,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and that's what the data shows. And you believe that
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: calling family and calling someone that the pro testimony was
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: was like another son is unreasonable in the circumstances, I
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: would say so, yes, given the fact that you just
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: arrived to the scene fat fingering the phone. No, that
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: can't be. When you look up a restaurant by name,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: if you put in the wrong letters, you'll get some
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: crazy result, not a local restaurant. What was he planning
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to go out for dinner after? And you hear the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: lawyer trying to rehabilitate these awful facts that are coming
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: from the witness stand by saying, well, you know whatdn't
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: you expect him to call his family? Yes, but that's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: not the first call that Alex Murdog made after finding
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: his wife and son dead. Take a listen to this.
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  Speaker 1: The first person he called after hanging up with nine one,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: was it roogin I have at ten seventeen forty six,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: he calls Randy Murdough and that's his brother, correct, that's correct.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Who's the second person he called? I messages Randy and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: then calls Randy Murdough again, and then John Marvin? John
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Marvin is another brother, creg at ten nineteen. And then
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the third time person he calls Rogan. Is that correct
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: at that at that time? Yes? And is that about
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: two minutes and thirty seconds after that first screen on time?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: That's Craig. I didn't hear any mention of Alex murdogu
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: calling his son Buster, but he did manage to squeeze
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: in a call to Rogie. That would be Rogan Gibson.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Rogan Gibson, remember, was the recipient of the video with
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog's voice in the background. You saw him earlier
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in the States case positively identifying Murdog's voice at the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: kennel the scene of the crimes, minutes before Maggie and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Paul or murder. So why is he contacting Rogie Gibson
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: before he calls Buster? You know straight out to Joshua Ritter,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: well known defense attorney, partner at dab Ritter Trial Lawyers
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and former La County Deputy District Attorney. Joshua, thank you
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: for being with us. What do you do with a
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: client who's standing right beside his wife and sons, dead
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: bodies and he looks up a local restaurant. Yeah, it's
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: a problem, and it's something they're going to really have
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: to deal with because they listen, it doesn't make him
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: a murderer that he's making these phone calls and he's
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: looking up restaurants. But how do you get jurors to
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: wrap their heads around that. You can say all you
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: want about how different people behave differently when they're in shock,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and none of us know how we would behave, but
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  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, at the bottom of the list of things
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  Speaker 1: that we would be doing is looking up a restaurant.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: And you're right, they're gonna have to do something about
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: that to give some sort of explanation the jurors that
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: they can hang their hat on. Otherwise, this looks like
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the conduct of, at the worst, a guilty man and
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: at the very least somebody who just doesn't seem to
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  Speaker 1: care about what he's standing right next to. Okay, can
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I just correct you on one thing, Joshua Ritter, And
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I know you're a high profile defense attorney, but I
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: have never once said, oh, everybody reacts differently when they're grieving.
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  Speaker 1: That's not no, that was what you would say when
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: you have a criminal defendant that's doing something that is
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: unacceptable to most people, such as I don't know, bringing
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: your mistress to a funeral, or which I've seen in
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: other cases, not this one that I know of, or
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: looking up a local restaurant while you're standing beside your
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: wife and son's dead body, and another thing while I'm
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: on it straight out to Chris mcdonnaugh, director at the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Cold Case A Foundation, I found him on a YouTube channel,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: his channel, The Interview Room, Chris mcdonnah fat fingering means
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: something different. It means you obscure the thing you mean
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to click on with your finger. That's what fat finger
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a phone. Fat fingering a phone means that you're you
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: can't see the screen because if your fingers are in
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the wrong place. That does not explain looking up by
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: name a local restaurant right after you call nine one
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: one and you're thumbing through looking at your friend's bikini pictures. Yeah, Nancy,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I mean it just doesn't make any sense, right, I mean,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the gentleman is standing right there, his son's you know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: body parts are separated from his body. His wife has
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: been riddled with bullets. You you know, you might as
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: well check to see what's for dinner this evening, and
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: oh hey, there's a couple of you know, fallacious photographs.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I might as well take a look at those two
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  Speaker 1: while I'm waiting for the authorities to arrive it. You're
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent right. It just does not fit the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: narrative of the totality of the circumstances. And I've got
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to give it to Joshua Ritter, high profile defense attorney
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: joining us someone that is callous and cold towards his
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: wife and son and is looking up as next dinner
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: date online where he's going to have dinner. That does
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: not a killer make. But I can tell you this much,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: it's not good. Would you at least agree with that, Joshua,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, listen to picture that it creates is absolutely awful.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And they did it. The prosecution did a good job
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: of laying that out that like you're literally standing next
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: to the bullet riddled dead bodies of your wife and child.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if you could be on your
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  Speaker 1: phone at all and it make any kind of explanation.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And what explanation are they going to provide for at
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: that moment what he's thinking about is a restaurant location.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: There has better be a really good explanation for it. Otherwise,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: like like we said, doesn't make him a killer, it
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: certainly looks awful in front of those jurors. Or Michelle
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Dupree joining US. Forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Dupree is joining
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: us from there in South Carolina. Doctor Dupree needless to say,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: you and I have seen a lot of dead bodies.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: We've seen them in person at the morgue, at a
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: crime scene. You know, I find it really interesting that
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: he's standing a few feet away from a horrific crime scene.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Both his wife and son literally as I said earlier,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: were riddled with bullets their words, not mine. Paul's brain
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: was down by his ankles, and he's thumbing through his phone.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I would think that would be You've seen
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of crime scenes can you really look away
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and plan supper? Really, Nancy, I have never seen or
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: heard of any thing quiet like this, and this is appalling.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how. I don't know how someone that
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: you love could do that. You know, you've got a
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: lot of experience at crime scenes, but I would be
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: willing to bet this may have been Alex and Mardog's
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: first homicide, saying well, take a listen to this. So
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: as an investigator, do you do you think it would
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: be terribly unreasonable that after calling other family members, someone
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: would call the person who is the best friend of
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the dead son, who had multiple mis messages and calls
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and even a call coming in during the nine one
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  Speaker 1: one call is calling that person to ask what's what happened?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: What's going on? Is that to you, as an investigator
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: an unreasonable thing to do after calling other family members?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I would as an investigator, I think that would be
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: very odd given the scene, in the whole situation that
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: you're on the phone constantly, Yes, that you're standing there
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: next to his phone is ringing someone, and you call
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: that person after calling other people. Yes, because I am
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: standing over my son and wife and it's just witnessing
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that for the first time. I would think that would
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: be to have someone on their phone constantly like that
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: right after given the scene in the situation. Yes, as
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: an investigator, I would think that is very It wouldn't
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: be side trying to find out what happened at that moment.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: That would be the last thing they'll probably come through
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: my mind time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: go straight out to doctor Heidi Sivers, the founder of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Sivers Forensics, an export a bloodstained pattern lay consultant, author
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: of You Can't Make This Up Dark Humor. You can
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: find doctor Heidi Sivers at Sivers Forensics dot thinkific dot com.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Doctor Savers, you've seen a lot of juries. Now. The
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: evidence that you typically bring in regarding blood stain patterns
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and ballistics, you know, very highly technical jargon. Juries understand it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: They're a lot smarter than many people give them credit.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I find it really difficult to believe this jury is
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: going to fall for the fat finger. Excuse why Alex
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: murdog is looking up his next meal at a local
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  Speaker 1: restaurant or a bikini picture of friends set. I agree, Nancy.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail right on the head
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: there that they are much smarter than many people given
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: them credit for. And they have also heard extensive and
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: extensive scientific testimony this entire trial breaking down some of
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: those complex processes as it comes to DNA ballistics, bloodstains,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: things of that nature. So for them to catch on
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and understand the applicability of that type of evidence, but
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: to believe that in the midst of intense emotion you're
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: fat fingering a local restaurant and looking at bikini pictures,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I just don't think they're gonna catch on to that, guys.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned right at the get go and we
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: are live at the courthouse, Buster Murdock, they surviving. Murdock's
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: son has been on the stand almost all a morning.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: He had a lot to say, So, without any further ado,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: let's go straight in and listen to what he has
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to say about the so called reward for information about
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the murders. At some point in time, you and your
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: father announced a reward, Yes, Sir Alick and Buster Murdoch
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: announced today a reward of a hundred thousand for information
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: persons who brutally murdered Paul and Maggie on June. Any one. Now,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: there's a in the body of this, there's a expiration
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: date on this reward. What's what's your understanding of purpose
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: of having an expiration faire? I'm not really sure. Okay,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: what you say? Iss To be eligible, the person claiming
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the reward must submit the tip to Slatter Crimes Stipers
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: by September thirty one, twenty twenty one. Yes, sir, straight
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: back out to Chris mcdonnah, director of the Cold Case
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Foundation and star of the Interview Room. But I forgot
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: to mention that he is a former homicide detective and
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: has handled literally hundreds of homicide investigations. You know, I've
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of families put forth rewards desperate for
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: any information. I've very rarely seen a time limit put
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: on the reward, Sydney. Wasn't there a time limit put
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: on the Suzanne Morphew case. Hey, if you can find
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the killer, you get this or give me information about
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the killer, you get this reward up until the clock
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: struck midnight. You're a pumpkin again. So have you ever
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: seen that before? No? Absolutely not. And you know that
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: case was also written with his nephew. And in this case,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: here we have you know, the son who obviously gets caught,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: you know, not knowing why that expiration date is there.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're not talking about, you know, the death
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of these two individuals in this press release. That's what
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I call it. It's a press release. It's not a
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: reward release, because you know, press releases become stale after
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a certain point of time, and they should have an
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: expiration date on him, but not a reward if they
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: were sincere about wanting to find the killers. You know,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, I'm listening to what Chris mcdonna is saying,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and he's handled, I guess, going on five hundred homicide investigations.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Have you you ever in all of your years, Joshua
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Ritter seen a Marter case where the family puts out
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a reward but they tread it like it's a carton
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: of milk. There's an exploration date, Hey after this date? Yeah,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: never mind, don't want to know who killed him? No,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I've never seen it. But even worse is why wasn't
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: he prepared for that question? Why didn't they? I mean,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: they didn't discuss this aul beforehand and the things that
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: he might be cross examined about that might be one
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: of the things that pops up is, Hey, this is problematic.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: We all know how this looks. There has to be
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: some good reason for why we put this expiration date
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: in there. But the young man was caught off guard,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: as was pointed out, and he's asked the question and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: he gives a very weak answer. I mean, it's the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: answer that he knows, he doesn't know why, he has
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: no explanation for it. And that was a moment really
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: missed by the defense that again, something they're going to
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: have to provide an explanation for. You know, Joshua Ritter,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: you're pretty smart. You're absolutely correct. You know, when you
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: go into a case, Joshua, as I always would the prosecutor, first,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I would spend all my time getting my case ready.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Then with my spare time, I would try to figure
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: out what are they going to do, because I want
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to shoot it down before they can even bring it up.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I want to destroy their theory, which I know to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: be a lie, before they can introduce it before the jury.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I've got to destroy it before it starts. Hey, Chris,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: let me ask you, Christine, if you don't mind, I
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: want to look at Buster Murdog all the stand again,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: based on what Joshua Ritter has just said, is Buster
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Murdog totally caught off guard? Did they not prepare him
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: for this most obvious attack? Take a listen to our
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: cut nine. At some point in time, you and your
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: father announced a reward. Yes, Sir Elik and Buster Murdoch
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: announced today a reward of one hundred thousand for information
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: persons who brutally murdered Paul and Aggie on June seven,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Now, there's a in the body of this,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: there's a expiration date on this reward. What's what's your
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: understanding of purpose of having an expiration thing? Um, I'm
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not real sure? Okay, what are you saying? It says.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: To be eligible, the person claiming the reward must submit
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the tip to Slatter Crime Stipers by September thirty one,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Yes, did you notice Chris mcdonnah when
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: he said that? When Buster said I'm not real sure,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: he looked right over at his dad and then he
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: looked back, like, what the heck did you? I noticed it?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: He looked right over there and then back because he
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: had to be thinking, what you didn't tell me? They
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: were going to ask that. Yeah, great observation, Dancy. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and you know, let's take that a little bit further, right.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's basically a surrogate testimony for his father.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: The defense is just feeding him. And there were even
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: times in his testimony where he would kind of get
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: stuck and the defense would fill in the void and
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you would see that same look back over at his father. So,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: what a great observation you had. Their good, good one. Hey,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, I want you to repeat something because now
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I've got Ann Emerson An Emerson Senior investigative reporter WCIV ABC,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and she's a star of Unsolved South Carolina, the Murdoch Murders,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Money and Mystery podcast, which is incredible. And I want
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: you to hear what Chris mcdonnah had to say about
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: this reward announcement being more like a press release. Tell her,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, your theory. Yeah, So my theory is obviously
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the two of them got together. I would submit that
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Dad probably drove the conversation here. And when you read that,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: it reads more like a press release leash versus a
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: reward fund. Hey, we're looking for information, and it kind
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: of ties the family's narrative into the public forum with
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: an expiration date, and I find that interesting. It's the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: same month also that the fake shooting takes place, so
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: maybe the expiration was in correlation to that event. And
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Emerson with me, as I mentioned from WCIV and Unsold
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: South Carolina podcast and just coming out of the courtroom
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: and tell me how is the jury were spotting to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Buster Murdoch on the stand. They were very attentive this morning, Nancy.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: They were paying a lot of attention. You know, we've
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: also had a little bit of another alternate brought into
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the mix because we had someone who had to stay
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: out because the juror was sick, so we now have
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: an alternate in its place. So they were paying a
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: lot of attention to what was going on with Buster. Obviously,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: this was a heavy testimony, you know, it was one
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: of the you know, really coming out of the gates
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: for the defense. Right They've had a couple of short
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: witnesses and now they've got Buster on the stand, So
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: they were paying a lot of attention. I hear what
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you're saying, Chris about this It's a question we've had
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: ever since we started looking into this case, right, Like,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: this is not new as far as the reward. We've
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: been asking the same question about the expiration dates since
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the beginning, and we still didn't get it cleared up
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: with Buster on the sand today. And Buster was one
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of the people that was putting the reward out. So unfortunately,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: it's still a question of why they would have done that,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: whether or not it was in September. At the same time,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: you know that that event happened very early in September,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the first weekend in September, and they were holding out
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: for the whole month. But yeah, Nancy, incredible the you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Buster started crying one or two times while he was
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: up there, which was completely understandable, and you definitely felt
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the jury leaning in trying to hear what he was
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: saying and concerned for this kid up on the stand,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: but also waiting to hear Dick, could he clear up
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: some of these things about his dad? One of the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: things is he a kid? A minute? Is he a kid?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Is he a kid? I guess a kid? How old
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: is him? And you'd think of him twenty six old?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Is he's twenty six? Okay, just so he's hold on
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: because at twenty six, my father had already enlisted with
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a Navy in the World War and had gone halfway
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: around the world to fight the World War, had come
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: back home and had married, gone back to school to
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: study accounty, and was starting a family. So I don't
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: know that twenty six is a kid. I don't think
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: he is a kid. I think it's like, I mean,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: look at the life skills they've been, you know, definitely
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: coddled by their family. So I mean, in a lot
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of ways, this is a guy that still looks at
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: his dad and says, hey, Dad, what do you think
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: about what I'm saying right now? So to me, he
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: does still act like a big kid in some ways.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter. And I'm not saying that I would have
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: done this, because, after all, regardless of the fact that
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: he is twenty six years old and as a grown man,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: he still has lost his mother and his brother in
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a horrible way, and now his father's on trial for
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: double murder. But I would have considered really grilling him
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: on the stand. I mean, he and his father issued
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the reward. It was their idea. His name is on
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the reward. Why do you mean you don't know why
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: there's a shelf date. There's an expiration date, I mean
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the shelf life an expiration date. Why, I mean, it's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: your reward. Why I didn't end magically at the stroke
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of midnight at the end of September. They could have
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: really grilled him on that and a whole lot more.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: But would it have been the right thing to do,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, Oh, you're right. I mean, if he were
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: anybody else that hadn't lost his mother and brother and
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: now you know, perhaps he's losing his father to prison
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: for the rest of his life, you could have seen
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: that they would have had a lot of opportunity to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: really go after him for a point like that in particular.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: But I think the prosecution realized I had to take
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this kind of soft handed approach because of the person
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that you're dealing with. In fact, he opened up his
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: cross by saying, I'm sorry about the loss of your
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: mother and brother, and made a point of kind of
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: having this really human interaction with him, of introducing himself
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and saying, you know, I'm going to just ask you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: a few questions here, so they you could tell that
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: their tactic from the very beginning was they're going to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: ask the tough questions, but they're going to do it
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: in a very soft handed manner. Okay, Josua Ritter, let
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: me just throw it out what I think I would
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: have done in that situation, much what the state did.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I'd go easy on Buster Murdog because I feel bad
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: for him. He's lost his mother and his brother, and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: his dad's on trial for double murder. He's lost everything,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: everything that matters, and that's his family. However, I think
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I would argue it to the jury. In the end,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you saw a buster, didn't your heart go out to him? Now,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: let's analyze what he said about the expiration date on
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: that reward. You know, he didn't do that. That was
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: his father's money, his father's idea, his father's release. He
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: didn't know why there was an expiration date, but Alex
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Murdog knew because he didn't want anybody to come forward
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: with the truth that he is, in fact a double killer.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Think about it. I think that's what I would do
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: with that. I would save it for closing arguments. Yea.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: And really, the more you talk about it, and then
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you brought this up, it's a missed opportunity by the
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: defense that they didn't bring it up themselves on direct
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Why didn't they realize that was a weak point that
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: needed to be addressed. Here you have a person testifying
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: who can essentially testify as a mouthpiece for his father,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and go, hey, by the way, you guys put an
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: expiration date on this, what was the reason for that?
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And it would have completely deflated this moment for the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: prosecution on cross missed opportunity that was exploited by the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: prosecution and Emerson joining mey w CIV and I noticed, hey, Christaine,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we have this because it just happened.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we haven't to play back for
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: our viewers, but I can describe it. So they got Buster,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the defense put Buster up on the stand, Buster Murdog,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and at some point they said, you know when when
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: what happened? When you're when you got this call? And
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: he said, I learned my mother and my brother were dead,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: And the camera went to Murdog, Christain, stay with me moment,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and I watched Murdog at that precise moment, and he went,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: there was nothing there. And for those of you that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: can't see and you can only hear. He just took
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: one finger his hand, dab dab right under resides. There
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: was nothing there, and I went you, s o B,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you're crying. You're not crying. You're pretending you're crying. Oh,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: hold on, wait a minute, Christine somehow asked me miraculously
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: dug it up for me. Let's see it, Christine. I
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: hope I'm right. Okay, please play it. My dad called me.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I can't. I can't remember the exact time, but it
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: was later. He asked me if I was sitting down,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, and then he sounded on
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and then then he told me that that my mom
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and brother had been shot. I kind of just sat
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: there for a minute and I was I was in shock.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: But eventually we got our stuff together and drove down
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: to Mozelle. If we left around ten thirty eleven, got
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: there sometime probably around two o'clock in the morning. And
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: when you got there, did you see your dad? Yes, sir?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Nice demeanor was? I mean, he was destroying his heartbroken.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I walked in the door and it saw him and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: give m a hug and just just broken down. Could
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: he speak? Not? Really, you're crying yes, sir, okay, that
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: was the right sound. But I didn't see the video
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that was Buster on the stand. But right when he says,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: my dad calls and you know, tells me my mom
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and my brother had been shot. At that moment, it
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: goes to murdog and he's sitting there and he takes
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: one hand and goes boop boop and wipes under his eyes.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, clearly not really crying. I mean, come on, man,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: pinch yourself. Straight back out to Anne Emerson joining us
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: w c IV. Tell me what happened when Buster Murdock
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: was describing the moment he learned his mom and his
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: brother had been murdered. Well, Nancy, Also, we have to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: set it up that we have not heard anything from
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Buster before, right, we haven't heard any interviews. He's been
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: very quiet up until this moment, and so we were
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: all listening intensely to see how he would describe this moment.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And you're right, it was one of those moments where
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: he was kind of going through it. You almost felt
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: like on a third person level. You know, he was
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: talking about that he noticed that his girlfriend was packing
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: as he's talking, because she could overhear the conversation he
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: was intent on getting through. In my opinion, he was
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: intent on sort of getting through this part of what
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: they wanted him to talk about, because he did not
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: over he was not overly dramatic about that. He like
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you said, there wasn't a whole lot to read through
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the lines right then, but he looked like he was
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: focusing very hard at just trying to get it out.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And the jury was sympathetic. Of course they're sympathetic. They're
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: trying to follow along with Buster because this is something
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: they just haven't gotten, is that very very close familial connection.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So it did feel like it was getting a little
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: bit of testifying from the defendant through Buster. I will
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: state that as I did, I believe that the jury
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: felt sympathy and empathy for Buster Murdog. I can't even
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: imagine going through life without my mom. And isn't Buster
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Murdog back in law school now? And you know, that's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: what we've been told, but we've also it's been under
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: wraps a little bit. But that's certainly what I heard
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: was that he was already re enrolled, that he was
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: supposed to go back as of January, is what I understood.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: But I haven't gotten a confirmation on that, but imagine
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: going through law school and graduation and finding a job
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and so forth without your mom there supporting you and
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: cheering you on. I have noticed every day I've been
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom that his girlfriend was sitting right there
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: with him. And I've got to say, having lived through
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: something similar myself, in those moments when you first learned
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: someone you love has been murdered, nothing seems real. And
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: he looks over and she's already packing. She has been
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: with him throughout this. But we learned more from Buster Murdock.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. Did you take
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: any security precautions? No? Did you want any security protection
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: from No, sir, I didn't want to, Well, I didn't.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to carry a gun or anything like that.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: And I also didn't want like a private security detail
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: following me around, just for lack of privacy in and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: at the time the places that I that I was
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: staying in the places that I were going, like I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: was staying at rock Hill and my girlfriend's house, who
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: has yeah, alarm systems and security cameras and whatnot. And
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: then other than that, I'm staying in hotels. Man Joshua Ritter,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I've got so many hanks and charms and security systems
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and cameras on our home to protect the children, the dog,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the fence, the this that, the camera, the warning signs,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the works. But eerily Alex Murdog was not concerned about
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Buster Murdog's safety, was he Joshua doesn't appear to be
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: You're right, it's you know it listened. These small little
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: points add up all of this kind of bizarre behavior
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: taking place afterwards. You're right again, the jurors doesn't make
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the man a killer. But the jurors are going to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: look at this and go, if I'm in that person's
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: position and I had just my wife and child, I've
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: been killed and I don't know who did it, and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: they still might be out there, that person or persons,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to take steps to make sure
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: that my son is protected, that I'm protected. I think
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: many of those jurors are going to feel exactly that
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: same way, and now they don't really have an explanation
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: for it. But isn't that barre behavior that we can
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: add to the list of bizarre behaviors. And again we
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: have gotten, we have been inundated with questions about Buster Murdog,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: did he do it? Where was he that night? What's
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: his alibi? Why isn't he Why wasn't he arrested? Never
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: once have I seriously considered Buster Murdog as a suspect
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: in this case, not even a py person of interest.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: He was elsewhere at the time of the shootings. And
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that if there were any remote
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: interest in Buster Murdog as the shooter, he would not
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: have taken the stand. He would have taken the fifth.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: He would have had a caudray of defense lawyers stopping
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in or surrounding him when he took the stand. No,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: there's no way this young man shot his brother and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: his mother never bought it from the beginning, not buying
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: it now, which leads me back to Alex Murdog. Now, Christine,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: let me ask for another control room miracle. Can I
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: hear in our side eleven if you managed to turn
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it around? Yet the reconstruction expert called by the defense,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: who insists the shooter not only shot from the hip,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: but it's kind of like a clairvoyant. He can say,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: and oh, yeah, the shooter was really short. Listen, So
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: what has this depend So this is the shooter making
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: both shots, and you'll see there's a couple of different
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: angles I could show you, but they're really close and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: they're in the right location relative to the empty shell casings.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: So what that says. I'm not saying it's exactly there,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: because there's some variables to it. But I find it
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: interesting that the two shot trajectories cross at a point
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: where both shots can be made and they're at the
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: right location relative to those empty shell casings. So in
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: my opinion, when these two shots were made, at least
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: these two shots, that the shooter was standing right in
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: that area. If you have the shooter shooting from the hip,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense that with a little
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: bit of movement the shooter can produce both of those
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: shots and have it agree with the evidence that special
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Agent worldly collected. Okay, I'm just loving this because if
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you hear what he say to doctor Michelle Dupree and
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: then to doctor Heide Sievers, he says, if not exactly there,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: then somewhere in that area there are too many and
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I'm quoting him too, not exactly there, but in that
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: area a lot of variables could affect this doctor Michelde Preef.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Nancy? I think most
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: of this is just some guesswork. He tells a good story,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: but I don't think that it really forensically or scientifically
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: necessarily adds up. You know, I took away four really
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: important things from his testimony, and one, this is a shotgun,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and a shotgun is typically an aim and shoot. You know,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: you point and shoot it. It's a great home defense
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: weapon for that reason. But you don't necessarily stand in
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a shooter stance, and he discredits that for some reason.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: The other thing, what about the person kneeling. I mean,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: that could also explain a lot. And you know, later
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: on and you'll probably get to this, but he talks
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: about the casings, and we all know that casings are
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: going to eject, and in this case we assume they
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: adject to the right, but they do bounce, not so
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: much on ground like that. But also first responders coming
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: into the scene, they're there to protect life. They're not
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: worried about shell casings. I have seen them kick shell
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: casings across a room, so they could have dislodged these
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: from their normal space. In addition, he also testifies later
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that these go through a couple of buildings, they go
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: through the kennel, and they go through the quailpen. Well,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: that is going to slow down that projectile. Gravity's going
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: to take over. It's going to lose kinetic energy. And
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I think that a lot of this is just conjecture.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I will never forget trying to determine whether
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: at a crime scene the shooting was a murder or
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a suicide. And I saw the medical examiner investigators very
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: carefully measuring where the expelled casings were. But there was
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: a carpeted floor and they took all the measurements and
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, say Heaven, you got all that written down.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: They went doesn't really matter because they bounced around on
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: carpet much less out in a wooded area at the
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: dog kennels, like you're describing. Okay, Doctor Heidi Sivers, founder
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: of Sivers Forensics, what do you make of the assertation
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that there were two shooters? But the expert on the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: stand called by the defense said, well, maybe not exactly
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: there the way I haven't pictured and this recreate video,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: recreation video, there are too many varials, but maybe in
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: that area that's essentially what he said doctor Sivers. Yeah,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: and see, I think it's interesting that he brings up
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the fact that there are so many variables but then
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: essentially ignores the variables and still makes, you know, an
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: assertion of this is the area it happened. And to
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: kind of piggyback on what doctor Tupri said, they're not
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: taking into account kneeling. Right. They even brought up that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: they actually actually measured the distance from the bottom of
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: his foot to his kneecap to account for potentially holding
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it in that spot, But how about the height as
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: if he was kneeling, And testimony from doctor Kinsey and
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Dave's prior suggested that the shooter outside of the feed
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: room when shooting Paul would have also been kneeling, So
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I think they totally disregarded that possibility. And another thing too,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: when we're looking at scenes like this, especially when you're
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: on a property where people are known to have firearms
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: and go shooting and hunting, there's something we do as
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: well as sequencing evidence and whether or not it's something
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: that is relevant. Yes, it is a bullet defect, but
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: making one hundred percent sure that was not from any
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: prior time, and again with not only first responders affecting
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: the location of the casings, but also the shooter as well.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Her being shot multiple times, there obviously was a significant
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: amount of time in that area where they could have
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: easily been kicked around inadvertently. So, guys, you heard me
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that not only did they defense expert give
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: this opinion that you just heard, but he also hypothesize
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that the killer was very short. Okay, Christine, you did
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: it once. Could you do it again and pull up
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the sound where they identify the killer as being very short.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Let's say if you put a five four person even
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: or five five, five six in kind of that shooting
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: position from the hip, you've got to move them all
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the way up to the quail pin, and it doesn't
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: make any sense there because there's no shell casings, and
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: it starts to not make any sense. I tried it
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: with a five four, tried it with a five nine.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Will just put light in that work, because it puts
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the person under the shed close to the quailpin. Doesn't
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: make much sense being under there. There are no shell
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: casings there. So in order to get the shooter at
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: the cross of the two shot trajectories near the empty casings.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Then you've got to you've got to lower that in
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: terms of Alec Murdoch, who is altall? Is he six
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: three six four? So could you say to a degree
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: of engineering certain more probably than not, Alan Murdock of
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the night did not file that fire that shot, in
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: my opinions, is very unlikely that he fied that shot. Okay,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: So doctor Michael dupree, what do you make of that? Wait?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Is that ritter jumping into mcdonnaugh. McDonough, Go ahead, Chris
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: and Nancy. Just as a couple of things to consider here, right,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: some of these, you know, one offs, the height of
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the shooter, etc. So I've done a lot of work
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: with many experts, like the two docks here. One thing
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: that's not being considered. If we take a look at
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the very first video of the body camera of when
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: the first responders got there, Alex Murdoch is actually emerging
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: from the exact area of where this recreationist is saying
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: where those shots are coming from. So if we go back,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: it's even before this, right when they first get there,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the officer as he's getting out of his parts at
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: that moment, you see Alex start to emerge from that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: particular area. And so the question I would have for
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: this particular witness is what if somebody who six foot
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: four is kneeling, And if that individual is kneeling, does
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that change the height and the trajectory of that round
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: going down range? And then you would also have to
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: take into consideration the height of the victims when that
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: first round got off. And remember these are such high
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: velocity rounds as they're going down and forward, and the
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: doctors know this more than anybody is. Sometimes they have
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: a tendency to tumble after they strike a particular item,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: and in this case, it looks like it was Maggie,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and so that could also change that trajectory again because
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: if it hit bone, if it went through flash, etc.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Then that round coming out could go into all kinds
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: of different directions, including what we're seeing here in the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: evidence it's being presented here. So I think that's a
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: very subjective and I agree with the two doctors here.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: There's just too many variables that have not been accounted for.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And I hope to see the state take this Shawn
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: want to hear what you said again. And Christine did
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you play that video you were just showing Chris mcdunnan
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: joining us from the interview room about Alex Murdock emerging
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: when the cops got there, emerging from that particular area
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you described. Could you say that again as we watch
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: the video, Nancy. If so, this clip here is when
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: they actually get up to him, but as the patrol
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: car pulls up and he reaches in the back seat
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: to grab his flashlight, if you could pull that piece up,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: you'll see Alex Murdoch will emerge from the left side
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: towards Maggie. I thought that was a really interesting positioning
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: that he took when the first responders got there. There's
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of behavioral analysis that could go on with
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that particular piece of the puzzle. But you'll be able
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: to see it on the clip when you back up
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: to where the first responder is pulling out. So we
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: also learn from Buster Murdog the family position on Mallory Beach,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: and it's an eye opener. Remember Mallory Beaches, this gorgeous
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: young team girl that was on the boat with Paul
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Murdog who actually had an alter ego that his friends
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: called Timmy because when he would drink too much, which
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: apparently was often a whole other personality would emerge. And
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that night, apparently Timmy was at the wheel when Malory
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Beach flew over the side of the boat, the Alex,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the Murdog boat, when Paul Murdog crashed into cement pilings
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and Malory Beach was killed. Take a listen to our
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: cut six from Buster Murdog where you sued, Yes, sir,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: was your dad's suit he wasn't was your mother's suit
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: her estate became sued. Was your mother anxious about the
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: civil lawsuit? Yes, sir? What was her biggest concern her?
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I would say her biggest concern was reading articles after
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: you know, Mark Tinsley had made a statement about how
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: much money he was wanting to collect in the civil lawsuits,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and I think it was to the tune of like
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: forty mi million dollars or something like that he was
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: trying to trying to get and that made her anxious.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: What took priority the criminal case against Paul or the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: civil kid the criminal case. You know, amongst the family,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: none of us thought that he was driving the baby
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: and Emerson did he just say none of them Murdoch's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: thought Paul Murdoch was driving the boat with Mallory Beach
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: flew up against us cement piling see her death. He
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: did Nancy, And we've heard this now also from Marion Proctor,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Maggie's sister. She also said that Maggie didn't believe that
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Paul was driving the boat and had told her so.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Now we also know that the night of if we
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: go back to that night of the boat crash, one
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: of those reasons could possibly be because when Paul spoke
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: to his grandfather, Randolph Murdoch akay handsome, and also was
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: reaching out to his own father. They asked him who
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: was driving the boat, and he said Cotton Top, which
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: was a nickname for Connor Cook. So possibly that's where
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: this was coming from. I would have to I would
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: have to guess that that's got to be part of
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: why they thought that was because Paul told him himself
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that he thought it was Connor that was behind the wheel,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: at least at the at the beginning. That's what we
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: heard on from testimony from the Cooks. Okay, all right,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: so Paul Murdog is the source of the theory that
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: he Paul Murdog was not driving the boat. The night
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Mallory Beach was killed, resulting in a multimillion dollar lawsuit
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: against Paul Buster, Alex and Maggie Murdog. Okay, Doctor Michelle Dupree,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: you and I went to the location of the crash.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: You could see the cement pilings a mile away. We
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: studied the statements of the witnesses on the boat. There
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: were several other people on the boat that night, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: they all said Paul Murdoch was driving and speeding in
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: the dark, and they were all begging him to stop.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: And if that when one girl begged him to stop,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: I think Paul Murdoch slapped her. Somehow one of the
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: girls got slapped in the face that night, all of
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: them begging him to slow down and get away from
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: the boat. Will do you remember that, doctor Dupree? I
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: do remember that, Nancy, And you're absolutely right. That is
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: what one of the girls said. And you know, Paul
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't driving the boat. Timmy was. And Timmy is such
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: an alternate personality. He completely changes. He becomes agitated, a
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: little bit violent, and he starts to shake his hands
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: actually start to shake. And many of the people on
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the boat that night actually described that. And you can
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: see that in one of the videos where he's beginning
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to walk down towards the boat on the pier. Doctor Dupree,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: please never say that again that Paul was not driving,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: that Timmy was, because Timmy is Paul. That is Paul's
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: alter ego, as diagnosed by his friends. No shrink said
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: that that's basically Paul when he's drunk out of his
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: gourd and now he was behind a wheel with all
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: these people they're on the boat begging him and isn't
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: it true? And Emerson that the night of the crash,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog was spotted at the hospital going from room
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: to room like a vampire, trying to get the other
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: people on the boat to not speak to police about
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the boating crash and to basically change their testimony. They didn't.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: He did not want it out that Paul was driving. Well.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Alec and his father showed up at the hospital that
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: night and they were going room to room. There's a
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: lot of testimony not just from the kids that were
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: at the hospital, but also from the hospital staff in
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: hospital security because they ended up having to get involved.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: According to the testimony and the depositions that we've read
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: through that they were actually to get out of those
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: rooms or stay out of those rooms. And I think
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: even one of the passengers, Morgan might have Paul's girlfriend
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: might have been the one that was like, I do
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: not want him coming into my room to talk to me. Now,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: this is also led into another state law enforcement investigation
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: as far as whether or not there was any interference
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: with that investigation, so that investigation actually is still ongoing.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: But apparently they had Maggie and Paul, who is just
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Maggie and Buster who has just come down off the
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: stand convinced that Paul was not driving. Okay, I don't
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: know that. I got to doctor Heide Severs, founder of
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Sivers Forensics, about the theory that the shooter was about
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: five two to five four. What do you make of
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: that theory? I think it is definitely a strategy by
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: defense to deflect from all of these other testimonies we've
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: talked about today, And just like we were mentioning those
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: other variables, I think it's not taking into account those
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: other variables. Although the witness brought up that there were variables,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: those seem to have been forgotten. So apparently we can't
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: be one hundred percent certain on location, but somehow we
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: can be certain on the height. So again, just like
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: the other people here have spoken about that, it is
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: seems like a little bit of a shot in the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: dark because we're not taken into account kneeling and fire
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and positioning. And just like that was mentioned how that
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: projectile can change angle and directionality based on what it
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: strikes and may ricochet off of. So doctor Heidi Sivers, guys,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: you can find her at Savers Forensics dot think if
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: dot com savers. When you say there are many variables,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: what do you mean by many variables that could affect
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the angle the trajectory path of the bullet. So first
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: we have to try and account if that defect was
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: made by a bullet that struck straight into it, or
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: if it went through or hit an intermediate object before then,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: such as the victim. So if it had gone through
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: another intermediate object such as the victim or anything else,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: it could have changed its directional path as well as
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: the angle. So the angle that they're showing one and
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a half, and I think there was another one that
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: said three. A little bit of a difference there that
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: is subjective to those other variables, So that calculation is
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: also being made as far as the height based on
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: where the shell casings are, and we've kind of all
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: discussed that showcasings are light, right, they're very easily to
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: be moved, kicked around, and adjusted, both at the time
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: of the incident as well as the aftermath until crime
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: scene personnel are able to document them. So from the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: time they're expelled from the firearm until the time that
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: law enforcement and forensics can document them, there's a lot
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: of time and a lot of people moving in and
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: out that may not see those shell casings on the ground.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: And to bring up the body worn camera from when
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: they first arrived, you can hear law enforcements saying there's
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: so many shell casings all over the place that matched
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: those three hundred blackout casings. So that's what I mean
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: by so many variables, both with the trajectory path of
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: the bullet and if it's struck an intermediate object, as
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: well as what he's basing his analysis off of, which
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: seems to be he has a lot of faith in
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: the positioning of those casings. Mmmm, everything you said is
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: exactly correct as I understand the facts, Doctor Savers. Doctor
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree. In addition to what doctor Heidi Savers said,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: You know, she has all of the technical aspects of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: ballistics down called. I was thinking of, did the sheeter
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: was the sheeter closer to the body than depended in
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: that recreation. They've got the sheeter out here, but if
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: the sheeter was actually right here? Hey, Christin, can we
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: pull that up where? You know they did the green line,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: you know, like when you're watching Fox football, they change
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: the line down the middle of the field like for
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the first intense. So they create this line, this trajectory path.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: But what if the sheeter was closer or further away?
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: What if the sheeter was kneeling. What if the grass
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: was wet and their arms slipped when they actually pull
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: the trigger. What if the victim was moving, What if
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: the victim was standing up. What if the victim was
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: crouched down when they saw a gun emerge. That's what
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I think about variables, not really technical variables. All the
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: correct ones and the precise ones that doctor Severs pointed out,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about the surroundings, the environment where the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: shooting took place. Doctor Dupree, exactly, Nancy, And remember that
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: there was stippling or tattooing on the body, which means
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: that the barrel of that gun was probably approximately within
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: three feet or so. I'm not sure that they took
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: that into account. We don't know the length of the barrel.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait wait, wait wait wait wait wait wait, hey, Christine,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: please leave that picture up. She's got the picture of
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I was talking about, doctor Dufree. Now go ahead, because
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I want to look at this recreation the defense did
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: while you're talking. Okay, go ahead, doctor Dufree. So we
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: know because there was stippling on the body or tattooing,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: we know that that barrel of the gun was approximately
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: three feet or so away from the body. We don't
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: know how long the gun barrel is, but we have
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: some idea because we know that it's a long gun
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: and it's a shotgun unless it was sought off, which
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: is unlikely to be at the hunting range. So that's
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: something that I don't think was taken into consideration either exactly,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Aunt Emerson. I'm running out of time, but I've got
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: a couple of questions for Joshua Ritter. But first I
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: want to hear from you, Ann Emerson. Who else do
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: we think the defense is putting on? Well, right now,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: this it looks like this could go on for quite
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: a while in the afternoon. Now we are hearing that
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: there there could be even more family members more certainly
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: more experts. I know that they mentioned at least a
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: couple more experts that they're going to be flying in,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: so I'm expecting them to be looking at at more
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of these forensics and the crime scene. I did want
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: to bring up, you know, there were a couple of
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: interesting things as y'all are just talking about this forensics expert.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: You know, one thing is keeping in mind your audience,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and that audience is the jurors right during this during
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: this trial, and I was watching them very closely with
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: this new three D flying over the shed and the
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: crime scene. It's some information that they knew existed from
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the state, but it wasn't shown to them. Really. They
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: were looking at more of a two dimensional drawings, so
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: their their interest was peaque. They understood flying through this
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: a little bit better. I think they got some points
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: with that, but also just the optics of having did
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: y'all notice that there were like two figures on that
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Pharaoh three D landscape? There were two figures, and I
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: just don't think I think that was very clever of
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: the defense to keep that in the optics of this case,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: because I think that's something they're going to be able
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: to visually. I thinks are thinking about that, Joshua Ridder question,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to do a lightning round with you
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: since we're hearing everyone's making their way back into the courtroom.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Do you think that because of what we heard today
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: that the jury will be taken to the same Yeah.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I think they should be. I think that would be
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: important for them to see it as much as a
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: rule that all of these angles and directions and distances
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: have played. I think they should be if the prosecute.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: If I were the prosecution, I want them to see it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, I've noticed every in every single case I
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: have ever tried or covered, the defense always projects they've
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: got a huge US witness list, and they never do.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe they decide less is more, But do you believe
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: there are that many more witnesses for the defense? No.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I think that they've probably put on the strongest witnesses
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: that they have so far, and today I would expect
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: to see maybe one or two more. That is, you know,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: putting aside the million dollar question, if the defendant himself
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't take the stand. That was my next question. Do
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: you think you'll take the stand? You know so many
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: people who have speculated on this. As a defense attorney,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you're always in the position where you don't want to
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: put your client on the stand. But dealing with this
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: man who seems to like to talk to police, seems
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to have an ego, and there's a lot of unanswered
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: questions that only he can answer. This might be one
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: of those rare, rare carreases where you actually see him
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: take the stand. You know what, I think there's too
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: much of a downside for him to take the stand
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: if he listens to his lawyers. I don't think he
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: will do it. And regarding putting up more relatives, be
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: careful what you ask for, heart Pootian for you will
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: get exact actually what you want. You put relatives on
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: the stand, they may be on cross examination, open to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: discussing drug problems, lies in the past, possible affairs. I
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: would be very selective about what relatives I put on
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: the stand. They may know too much to undergo or
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: survive cross examination. Okay, everybody's going back in the courtroom. Guys,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our experts for being with us.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: We're going straight back in the courthouse. Thanks for being
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: with us, everybody. Goodbye.