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How McKnsea Balances Her Marine Career and Content Creation to Inspire Ocean Advocacy · How To Protect The Ocean

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  A few episodes ago, I talked about ocean
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  conservation careers and how
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  important it was to understand
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  that there are certain decisions in your
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  life that will be
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  difficult at that time, but will
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  change the course of your career.
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  And I wanted to get a couple of people on
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  to show examples of that.
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  And I did that last time with Kenzie
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  Horton, who talked about
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  being a science communicator
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  and working in a job where she's a
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  fisheries biologist, and then
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  she ends up doing a master's
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  afterwards and making those decisions
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  that went into dedicating herself to
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  doing a full time job and a master's at
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  the same time on two different subjects.
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  But that makes her life more difficult.
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  It makes her life a lot busier, but she
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  does it because she loves it. And she
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  made that hard decision and it ends up
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  working out for her. Today on the
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  podcast, I have another guest who's very
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  similar in these types of decisions that
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  she made to be able to say, hey, what the
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  decision I made, I'm actually looking
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  forward to, because it's led me down this
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  really cool path. That is Mackenzie,
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  Margaret, she is on the podcast today. She is on the podcast today. She's a
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  she is on the podcast today. She is known
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  as Mackenzie on TikTok and on Instagram.
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  She's got a website out, all those links
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  in the show notes. But I want you to hear
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  this interview because it's a lot of fun
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  to be able to see someone who makes
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  decisions based on a lot of different
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  factors in their lives. And it's turning
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  out to look pretty good for them, no
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  matter which path they take. So it's
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  always great to hear from those. And I
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  know we're all going through the same
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  thing. So I want to talk about it on
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  today's episode of the How to Protect the
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  Ocean podcast. Let's start the show.
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  Hey, everybody, welcome back to another
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  exciting episode of the How to Protect
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  the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew
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  Lewin. This is the podcast where you find
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  out what's happening with the ocean, how
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  you could speak up for the ocean and what
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  you can do to live for a
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  better ocean by taking action.
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  And on today's episode, we have a great
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  one for you. We have Mackenzie Margaret,
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  who's on the podcast. He's been on my
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  bucket list for a while for having to be
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  a guest on the podcast. I have this list,
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  this ever surprising list. I come across
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  people, I follow them, I listen to them,
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  I become fans of them. I try and get them
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  on the podcast. And a lot of times
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  they're busy because they're doing so
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  much. The people that we all follow, the
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  people that we see on social media, the
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  people that we see writing a bunch of
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  papers or doing some really incredible
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  things on TV or even on the podcast, they're doing a lot of things.
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  And so they tend to be pretty busy and so
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  they tend not to have a ton of time
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  available. And so I was really, I'm
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  always so grateful when people like
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  Mackenzie and Kenzie last time were able
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  to make some time to come on the podcast
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  and introduce them to you, right?
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  And I'm able to tell themselves to you
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  and me as well. And I'm able to pull
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  their story out so that people can get
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  their story and then they can become
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  bigger fans of them when they follow them
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  on social media if they're not already
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  following Mackenzie is an amazing person.
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  She has been a huge advocate of science
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  communication, a huge advocate and
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  supporter of sustainable seafood. She's
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  been a huge advocate and supporter of
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  marine scientists that are within the
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  LGBTQ plus community.
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  She's been a huge advocate of sharing and
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  educating the masses on marine science in
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  general. She's a naturalist. She loves
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  science. She loves the ocean. She grew up
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  in Hawaii. But I don't want to give all
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  of a way right now. I want you to listen
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  to the interview because she's just a
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  wonderful person and she
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  just loves what she does.
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  And I think that's what oftentimes we
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  understand that marine scientists and
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  educators and science committees are
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  passionate, but you really get how
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  passionate there. But I really love the
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  decisions that she made over her career
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  and where it's led her currently and how
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  she's like, I don't regret any of it.
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  They were tough decisions at the time. I
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  don't regret any of it. I'm really happy
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  with the choices I've made. And I love
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  where my path is going now. She's a young
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  scientist. She's going to be, you know,
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  she's is and it's going to be an amazing
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  scientist. She's going to
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  be more people that follow.
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  She's got over 350,000 followers on
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  TikTok, almost 10,000 followers on
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  Instagram. And she just continues to
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  brighten my day every time I see a video
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  because she puts so much work into it.
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  And in this interview, she talks about
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  how much work she puts into those science
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  communication pieces, how much she puts
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  into like the decision making, what she
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  has a plan for the future. And I can't
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  wait for you to hear. So here's the
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  interview with Mackenzie Margaret. I
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  can't wait for you to listen. Enjoy and I
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  will talk to you after.
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  After Hey Mackenzie, welcome to the how
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  to protect the ocean podcast. Are you
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  ready to talk about all things ocean
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  science and science communication? Of
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  course, absolutely. Wonderful. I am so
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  excited for this episode. As I mentioned
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  to you before Mackenzie before we start
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  recording, you have been on my guest
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  bucket list for this podcast for quite
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  some time now. I've been watching you on
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  TikTok and watching on Instagram for
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  quite some time, loving your videos,
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  loving what you've been able to do and
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  the education that you
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  bring and kind of the
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  bringing to light some of the issues that
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  we talked about here on the podcast a
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  number of times and some of the stuff
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  that it's still surprising that we still
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  have to talk about it and we still have
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  to engage with it. But it's good to be
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  discussing and we'll discuss that on this
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  episode as well as your foray into
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  science communication and your success
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  into that and how that's changed your
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  perspective in terms of marine science
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  and education. So can't wait to get into
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  all that. But before we get started
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  Mackenzie, why don't
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  you just let the audience
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  know who you are and what you do. For
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  sure. I also very excited. That was very
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  sweet. Thank you. I'm Mackenzie
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  Margareth. I'm a marine scientist. I
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  mostly focus right now on sustainable
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  seafood. So fisheries and aquaculture as
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  well as like coastal ecology, how those
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  things impact our coastal ecosystems. I'm
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  a marine naturalist. I'm a science
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  communicator. So as you said, I create a
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  lot of videos on TikTok on Instagram in
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  order to bring in the general public on
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  to what we're doing in the science.
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  I feel like we don't do a very good job
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  of that a lot of the time. So I am trying
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  my best to bridge that gap as best as
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  possible. Yeah, I love it. And you're
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  doing a great job. Fantastic job. And I'm
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  not the only one who thinks that too. I
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  know there's a lot of people who think
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  that and all your followers who think
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  that as well, which you've amassed quite
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  a few, which is which is wonderful. How
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  did it all start? You know, like where
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  did this all this story
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  begin of you wanting to become
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  a marine scientist? Oh, I always loved
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  the ocean. I was always a water person.
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  My family called me little fish growing
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  up because I was just always a water
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  person. And so when I was in high school,
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  I went to high school in Hawaii. I went
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  on this like my high school is right on
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  the side of Diamond Head. We could see
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  the ocean all the time. And so I took a
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  class like a marine biology high school
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  class. Absolutely loved it. It was
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  spectacular. And then when I was going
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  into my undergrad, I like I didn't
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  grow up with a lot of financial security.
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  And of course, I went to I went to a
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  private high school, and I was a
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  scholarship student. So I was surrounded
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  by a lot of people who did have that
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  financial security. And I was like, I
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  want that that's something that I would
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  desire in my life. And so when I was
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  making the decision on what to do, that
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  was a huge factor for me. And so I
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  originally went into school for
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  forensics. So like my little degree here
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  is a degree in forensic science, you can
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  see that the bottom there says forensic
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  science is a huge factor for me. And so I
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  went into forensics. I because I went
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  into forensics, because I was like, that
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  is the thing that will get me paid.
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  That's the thing that will be financially
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  secure for me. Yeah. And so I did about a
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  year. And one of my professors came up to
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  me and was like, Hey, you're a great
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  scientist. You you do really well. You
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  you're a good, good student. You're a
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  good scientist. You seem miserable. Like
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  you seem miserable and what you're doing.
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  This does not seem like you're happy.
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  Like you're just here and you're just
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  doing it. And she was like, is that
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  something that you're doing?
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  That you genuinely want? Like, is that
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  what you want? Like, you know, you're,
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  you you are picking a career that you're
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  going to do every single day for the rest
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  of your life. Like, yes, it'll bring you
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  financial security. But are you going to
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  be okay with being a bit miserable, a bit
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  not not having fun, not enjoying? And I
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  was like, I don't know, like, I would I
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  would like that financial security. I
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  don't know. That's that's a really tough
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  call. It's a really hard thing for like a
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  19 year old to decide.
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  Where you're deciding like the rest of
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  your life. Yeah, you and you've been
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  through, you know, some financial
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  difficulties in the past. And you're
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  like, Well, look, I just want to be able
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  to pay my bills and join my life. But you
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  know, good on this professor for kind of
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  calling it out, you're doing well, the
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  professor could have just said, Yeah, I'm
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  just gonna keep, keep going through and
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  let's see how how they do. And you're
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  like, okay, but then call you up. You're
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  like, hey, look, like,
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  you know, she was very sweet. And I think
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  about her all the time, because she also
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  made me her TA, like, she was an
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  incredible professor, shout out to you,
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  Dr. Cockbell. But she, yeah, she was just
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  kind of like, you know, I don't know,
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  like, because my plan was always to like
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  do forensics, and then like, have the
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  ocean be my life side thing, you know,
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  the thing that I like, volunteer on the
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  weekends. And that like, is like, because
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  there's always been that also advice that
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  people have given you that like, don't
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  make your passion, like your career, like
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  a lot of people that like love to cook,
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  like don't become a chef.
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  Because then it kind of ruins your your
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  love of cooking, because you're doing it
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  all the time. And so that was kind of my
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  mentality was like, I don't want to do
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  this all the time, because I don't want
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  to lose my love, my love will be on the
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  side, I'll make my money, I'll be able to
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  do the things that was kind of my plan.
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  And she was like, I understand all that.
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  And she was like, Well, how about for the
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  summer, we have, I went to a small
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  private university in Hawaii, it's called
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  Chaminade. And we, the Dean of my
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  department was really close friends with
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  this incredible woman named
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  Dr. Ruth Gates, Dr. Ruth Gates, very,
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  very big name in the coral industry. And
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  they were really close friends. And Dr.
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  Gates was out of UH, so out of the
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  University of Hawaii. And they had never
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  had somebody from my university go to her
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  lab, that had never happened, because she
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  only really accepted UH students. But
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  because her and my Dean were friends,
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  were really close friends, she was like,
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  I will give you one student to send to my
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  lab as a tester student. And if that goes
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  well, you can send more students to my lab.
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  No pressure. So no pressure. So I became
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  that student, right? I asked to be that
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  student was like, Hey, do you wanna, do
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  you want to go be that student be the you
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  know, be the example? And I was like,
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  sure, you know what, it was on coconut
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  island, which if anybody I'm sure this is
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  like way too dated of a reference for
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  some people, but Gilligan's island,
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  right? That was where that was filmed is
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  coconut island. Yeah. And that's where
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  the Institute is. That's where the Hawaii
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  Institute for Marine
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  Biology is. And so I was like,
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  well, why not? Like I can go out to HIV
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  and go sit on the aisle, you have to take
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  a little boat out there. I was like,
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  sure, I can go I can go send a son to
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  some role island. I guess. Yeah. So I
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  did. And I remember my first day there,
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  they were touring me around. The woman
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  who was in was Dr. Holly Putnam. She was
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  Ruth Gates, like, PI, like one of her
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  head invest or had researchers. And she
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  was touring me around. She was doing all
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  of this stuff. She was talking to me
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  about like ocean acidification and the
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  impacts on coral. And I was like,
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  whoa, I didn't know any of this. Like
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  I've been so focused on forensics that I
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  missed so much of what's going on. And
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  the very first day I was like, this is
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  what I'm doing. I'm not going back. This
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  is it. This is what I'm doing. And so I
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  didn't change my degree just because I
• 1:11:18
  was paying for it for myself. And in
• 1:11:20
  order to do that, we extend the time that
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  I was there. And I was like, I don't
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  think I'm going to be able to financially
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  pull that off. But I did turn all of my
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  research into marine research. I got a
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  minor in chemistry. And so I did a lot of
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  stuff within the field. And that allowed
• 1:11:37
  me to continue on in from marine biology
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  afterwards. So what an opportunity. Think
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  about it like you're the first student
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  that was ever accepted from a different
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  university. And like you had the passion,
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  obviously. And you had, you know, you had
• 1:11:54
  the ability to do it. That wasn't a
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  question. But like, what an opportunity
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  because it never happened before that
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  professor, you know, pulls you out and
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  just be like, hey, I
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  think you might be good
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  for this opportunity to do it. And then
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  all of a sudden, you're like, I'm never
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  going back. Yeah. How difficult was it to
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  infuse, like the marine science part into
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  your forensics, you know, type of work
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  like it with all your coursework and
• 1:12:17
  projects and stuff like that? I can't
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  that couldn't have been easy.
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  Um, it wasn't as difficult as I think it
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  would seem. There's actually a lot more
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  crossover than you would imagine. So
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  like, learning genetics and learning all
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  of this stuff, it was very useful for
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  what I was doing, I ended up doing a lot
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  of genetic work on coral. And so I was
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  able to kind of kind of cross those
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  things over. Of course, there was things
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  like learning fingerprints, that was
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  like, I'm never gonna do.
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  But you know, it's also just like useful
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  to have. And then one of the things that
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  I always talk about that was really,
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  really interesting that really crossed
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  over for me was I learned a lot about
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  law, like a good portion of learning
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  forensics was learning law. And so
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  learning law, learning policies, learning
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  how all this comes into place, helped me
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  understand how environmental stuff comes
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  into place, how environmental policies
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  are utilized. You know, what we do as far
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  as environment when people are breaking environmental laws, and then they're like, oh, I'm going to do this.
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  Are breaking environmental laws or how
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  those things go about was actually quite
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  useful. And it's something that I still
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  use to this day of being like, I actually
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  know how this process works. Yeah, it was
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  a lot. There was a lot more crossover
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  than I think a lot of people would
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  realize that they seem very, very
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  opposite. But at the same time, science
• 1:13:31
  has a lot. And it was also, it's an
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  undergraduate degree, right? So there is
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  just kind of, it's a basis of
• 1:13:36
  science. So that kind of helps.
• 1:13:39
  But when I think a lot of people think
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  that you have to go and do your undergrad
• 1:13:43
  in marine biology. And I think that's a
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  huge myth within within the industry,
• 1:13:49
  like, sure, biology helps a science
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  degree helps, whether it's chemistry,
• 1:13:52
  whether it's physics, whether it's
• 1:13:54
  biology, could be really anything, you
• 1:13:56
  could technically go to arts, maybe have
• 1:13:58
  to do a couple courses if you
• 1:13:59
  want to go into graduate work.
• 1:14:01
  But you really just need the basics at
• 1:14:05
  that point. And you can if you decide to
• 1:14:07
  go to grad school, if you decide to go
• 1:14:09
  and do a job, you have the science
• 1:14:11
  degree. It makes it really it doesn't
• 1:14:13
  make it too difficult to transfer that
• 1:14:15
  knowledge over, especially if you've done
• 1:14:16
  most of your projects on on marine stuff.
• 1:14:19
  And I'd like the idea of trying to be
• 1:14:21
  creative, really, you know, biting into
• 1:14:23
  the genetics aspect of course, because
• 1:14:26
  you're learning something that needs to
• 1:14:27
  be learned anyway, it's not as if it's
• 1:14:29
  information that doesn't need to be
• 1:14:30
  learned or researched.
• 1:14:32
  And so you're able to do that. And then
• 1:14:34
  you're you almost become creative, you
• 1:14:36
  can use that as a bit of a, you know,
• 1:14:38
  their resume is, look, I went into a
• 1:14:40
  forensics degree and I use marine science
• 1:14:42
  to do it. Like, don't tell me I'm not
• 1:14:44
  creative when I when I'm able to do that.
• 1:14:46
  I love that, that aspect. So when you
• 1:14:48
  graduated there, what was your next step?
• 1:14:51
  You have all this marine science, you're
• 1:14:53
  now infused with it, you're inspired by
• 1:14:55
  it. You've had the opportunities, you're
• 1:14:57
  living in like paradise, like in Hawaii.
• 1:15:01
  You know, I say this from someone who
• 1:15:02
  just visited there, but I say this as
• 1:15:04
  someone who always loved Hawaii. What was
• 1:15:07
  the next step? Like, what were you what
• 1:15:08
  was your thought
• 1:15:09
  process when you graduated?
• 1:15:11
  First, I want to give like a little piece
• 1:15:13
  of advice. Yeah, looking into it. When I
• 1:15:15
  something that I was somebody had told me
• 1:15:17
  is that if you are interested in science
• 1:15:19
  at all, like go into your undergrad with
• 1:15:21
  a general science degree, go for like
• 1:15:23
  biology or bio chem or something along
• 1:15:26
  those lines, and then do internships and
• 1:15:29
  do research in the different fields that
• 1:15:30
  you're interested in, because you never
• 1:15:32
  know what you're going to like until
• 1:15:33
  you're actually doing it.
• 1:15:35
  I thought I was going to love forensics.
• 1:15:36
  I thought that was going to be such a
• 1:15:37
  cool investigative, very creative. And
• 1:15:40
  then I kind of discovered that's not what
• 1:15:41
  it was that my idea of what forensic was
• 1:15:43
  was not real. And so, you know, I didn't
• 1:15:46
  know that until I was actively in it. So
• 1:15:49
  my little piece of advice I always try
• 1:15:51
  and give is that just just do something
• 1:15:52
  general and do and practice and go for as
• 1:15:54
  many internships and see what you really
• 1:15:56
  like, because then you can
• 1:15:57
  specialize in graduate school.
• 1:15:58
  And you can do on from there. Yeah. And
• 1:16:01
  you can even major in things in you in
• 1:16:02
  undergrad to if you decide to do it
• 1:16:05
  later. I went in with an agricultural
• 1:16:07
  science program, and I ended up switching
• 1:16:10
  over to like a marine biology degree
• 1:16:12
  afterwards. So like you can always go in
• 1:16:14
  different places, just know what kind of
• 1:16:16
  courses you're interested in, or what
• 1:16:18
  interests you at the time, and it might
• 1:16:19
  change. I think that's a
• 1:16:20
  great, great piece of advice.
• 1:16:22
  Yeah, but what I did afterwards, so I
• 1:16:25
  actually graduated in 2015 with my
• 1:16:29
  undergrad. So if you can remember the
• 1:16:32
  timeline, that was the year of our first
• 1:16:36
  Trump presidency was 2016. Yeah, yeah. I
• 1:16:42
  was starting a graduate program at UH
• 1:16:44
  actually with Dr. Ruth Ruth Gates lab. So
• 1:16:47
  I was doing something with her lab, I
• 1:16:49
  started a graduate program at UH.
• 1:16:51
  And then Trump presidency came into play
• 1:16:55
  and funding got really, really finicky. A
• 1:17:00
  lot, a lot of funding was lost to the
• 1:17:02
  university. And I bought this letter one
• 1:17:04
  day that was like, Hey, we've reevaluated
• 1:17:06
  your portfolio, and we are now basically
• 1:17:10
  tripling your tuition. And my stipend
• 1:17:13
  through my university wouldn't have
• 1:17:14
  covered it covered it.
• 1:17:15
  Oh, yeah, it was, it was nearly tripled.
• 1:17:19
  It was when it went. It was it was it was
• 1:17:23
  a crazy letter to receive. And so I had
• 1:17:28
  this like, wow, okay, that's insane. And
• 1:17:32
  I remember I went to this protest, like
• 1:17:35
  maybe two months after that, and I had
• 1:17:38
  this sign that said girls just want to
• 1:17:39
  have funding for the research.
• 1:17:41
  And I was like, I was like, I, this is
• 1:17:44
  crazy how quickly I lost funding and how
• 1:17:47
  quickly it all happened. And so I tried
• 1:17:50
  originally to do all of it to do the
• 1:17:53
  research and then to also get a job. And
• 1:17:56
  the job that I got was
• 1:17:57
  being a marine naturalist.
• 1:17:59
  So I, that's how I'm in the boats. Yeah,
• 1:18:02
  yeah. Okay. I'm like touring boats with
• 1:18:04
  the tourists. And I really loved it. And
• 1:18:06
  unfortunately, it was too much. And I did
• 1:18:09
  end up having to drop out of my program,
• 1:18:10
  which still makes me sad to this day. But
• 1:18:13
  that's how life goes. You never know what
• 1:18:15
  life's going to throw at you. And there's
• 1:18:16
  always something that's around the corner
• 1:18:18
  that you don't know about. And I think
• 1:18:20
  that for me, that was being a marine
• 1:18:21
  naturalist. I started being a marine
• 1:18:23
  naturalist. I became a humpback
• 1:18:24
  naturalist. I worked for this company
• 1:18:27
  that allowed me to transfer to a
• 1:18:29
  another island. So I grew up on Oahu. And
• 1:18:32
  then my partner and I got an opportunity
• 1:18:35
  to move to the Big Island. So we moved to
• 1:18:36
  the Big Island for a year and a half. And
• 1:18:38
  I was working on a submarine, which was a
• 1:18:41
  very popular thing that I've talked about
• 1:18:43
  on Instagram, or on TikTok. So that's
• 1:18:46
  where I worked on the submarine as a
• 1:18:47
  naturalist and as a co pilot. And then we
• 1:18:50
  ended up, you know, leaving Hawaii
• 1:18:52
  altogether because my goal was always to
• 1:18:54
  go back to school, I always wanted to
• 1:18:56
  return. And it was kind of those one of
• 1:18:58
  those things that I partnered with. And I
• 1:18:59
  remember, I remember like, if we want to
• 1:19:01
  do this, we're gonna have to leave the
• 1:19:03
  most expensive state in the United
• 1:19:05
  States. It is a very expensive place. You
• 1:19:09
  know, we're both working full time job.
• 1:19:12
  She even had a second job, just to afford
• 1:19:15
  to live, right? You don't really get to
• 1:19:16
  see each other. There's not, you know,
• 1:19:18
  yeah, that's a lot. So it was kind of one
• 1:19:20
  of these things that was like, if this is
• 1:19:21
  really your goal, this is really what you
• 1:19:23
  want, then you're gonna have to give up
• 1:19:25
  being home. And it was kind of this
• 1:19:27
  conversation that I was like, you're
• 1:19:28
  right. And so we did, we left.
• 1:19:29
  And then unfortunately, there was a
• 1:19:31
  pandemic. So that also was, no, that
• 1:19:33
  didn't help. But I got to like, spend
• 1:19:36
  time with my grandma, we were we took
• 1:19:38
  care of my grandma for two years. And so
• 1:19:40
  I always really value that time as well.
• 1:19:41
  There's, there's times for you to be an
• 1:19:44
  active scientist, and there's times for
• 1:19:46
  you to be an active community member and
• 1:19:48
  an active member of like your family and
• 1:19:50
  those sorts of things. And that was my
• 1:19:51
  time was to be an active member of my
• 1:19:53
  family and to give my grandma her last
• 1:19:55
  two years at the home that she wanted to
• 1:19:57
  be in. So that's what I did. I,
• 1:19:59
  I was in the pandemic, and I had already
• 1:20:03
  started to talk, but I really had started
• 1:20:04
  to talk because people had told me that
• 1:20:07
  that was like where the lesbians were
• 1:20:09
  there were like, that's where the
• 1:20:10
  lesbians are going. And I was like, if
• 1:20:12
  you tell me the lesbians are there, I'm
• 1:20:13
  going. So yeah, you're telling me that my
• 1:20:18
  people are there, I'm going. So that's
• 1:20:21
  kind of what I started as was just like,
• 1:20:23
  lesbian thirst traps and like trying to
• 1:20:25
  make community with my people. And it was
• 1:20:27
  during the pandemic.
• 1:20:28
  And I remember this very
• 1:20:29
  specific video that I was like, well,
• 1:20:32
  since we're all stuck inside, let me
• 1:20:34
  teach you something, let me teach you
• 1:20:36
  about some coral. And I made this little
• 1:20:38
  video about coral and what coral
• 1:20:39
  bleaching is and what white coral could
• 1:20:41
  be that it's not necessarily dead. It was
• 1:20:43
  like, and people were so interested in
• 1:20:45
  it. They were like, I didn't know I need
• 1:20:46
  this information. And I was like, Oh,
• 1:20:48
  wait a second. All that work that I have
• 1:20:50
  done in person as a naturalist, which,
• 1:20:53
  you know, was very interesting because I
• 1:20:56
  grew up with the ocean. I grew up waking
• 1:20:57
  up and seeing the ocean. And you know,
• 1:20:59
  you don't understand that when you're
• 1:21:00
  younger, you don't understand how special
• 1:21:03
  that is. You just think that's not
• 1:21:04
  somebody's at the door. I think so. Love
• 1:21:12
  dogs in this podcast. Delivery probably.
• 1:21:17
  But yeah, you know, I didn't understand
• 1:21:20
  how special that was. And then working as
• 1:21:22
  a naturalist kind of showed me that it
• 1:21:23
  showed me how people don't grow up with
• 1:21:26
  you. Sometimes people were coming on that
• 1:21:27
  boat, having seen the
• 1:21:28
  ocean. This was their first
• 1:21:29
  time on the ocean, seeing things,
• 1:21:31
  learning about fish, learning about
• 1:21:33
  whales. And it was those moments that I
• 1:21:36
  was like, Oh, I can connect people with
• 1:21:37
  the ocean. I can help people develop this
• 1:21:39
  relationship that will then foster into
• 1:21:41
  them caring, which will then foster them
• 1:21:43
  into them making taking actions. And it
• 1:21:46
  was that video where I where I made,
• 1:21:47
  talked about coral. People were so
• 1:21:49
  interested that I was like, Oh, wait a
• 1:21:50
  second. I can do this online. I can take
• 1:21:52
  all those things that I was doing in
• 1:21:53
  person and bring that online. So I just
• 1:21:55
  started creating these videos about the
• 1:21:57
  knowledge that I had and about
• 1:21:59
  marine science and about being in marine
• 1:22:01
  science. And it just became this really
• 1:22:03
  wonderful career in marine science
• 1:22:06
  communication. Well, it's just amazing.
• 1:22:09
  There's a few things that you said there,
• 1:22:10
  like, we'll get into the science
• 1:22:11
  communication set, because this is where
• 1:22:13
  I really want to I want to I'll live with
• 1:22:15
  you on this because it's so important.
• 1:22:18
  You made that you made some pretty big
• 1:22:20
  decisions, like after you graduated.
• 1:22:22
  Yeah. And it's insane to think about how
• 1:22:25
  many scientists, marine scientists, when
• 1:22:28
  we come marine scientists,
• 1:22:29
  we dream of like either working in
• 1:22:32
  Australia or working in a place like
• 1:22:33
  Hawaii. Right. And then here it is. It's
• 1:22:36
  too expensive for marine biologists, like
• 1:22:38
  homegrown marine biologists to live there
• 1:22:40
  to do the work that they would love in an
• 1:22:42
  island that they know. And then they have
• 1:22:44
  to go somewhere else to do it. I just
• 1:22:46
  feel like that's very weird. It should
• 1:22:48
  not happen in a way. You know what I
• 1:22:49
  mean? Like, it should be a place where
• 1:22:51
  you can go and enjoy, especially because
• 1:22:53
  and I know just from you, like,
• 1:22:55
  especially from your videos, like, you
• 1:22:56
  know, the culture, you know, like, you
• 1:22:58
  know, the significance of everything.
• 1:22:59
  And I think that's important for
• 1:23:01
  scientists to be able to do that. So I'm
• 1:23:03
  sorry you had to make that decision to go
• 1:23:05
  to do that. But even moving to the like,
• 1:23:08
  like, even the decision to move, like, as
• 1:23:10
  like the other thing, actually, is to be
• 1:23:12
  a naturalist on a boat and like to dive
• 1:23:15
  into that. Do you regret the decision of
• 1:23:18
  of getting that job
• 1:23:19
  and working in that job?
• 1:23:20
  Because it seems like it's really paying
• 1:23:22
  off right now in terms of just being able
• 1:23:24
  to do what you want to do, you know, on
• 1:23:27
  on on TikTok and on Instagram and on
• 1:23:29
  science communication.
• 1:23:30
  Like, do you regret that?
• 1:23:31
  No, I think there's like, I've always
• 1:23:34
  learned and like the lessons I've learned
• 1:23:35
  is that there's always something that you
• 1:23:37
  don't know about. Like, right now, I'm
• 1:23:39
  waiting to hear about a graduate program,
• 1:23:42
  right? And you're kind of like, you're on
• 1:23:43
  the edge of your seat, constantly
• 1:23:44
  checking your email, like, oh, am I going
• 1:23:46
  to have the email
• 1:23:46
  today? Is it coming in today?
• 1:23:47
  And I know it's coming in any day now.
• 1:23:49
  Right? It's happening soon. And, you
• 1:23:52
  know, I try and remind myself that no
• 1:23:54
  matter what happens with it, that door
• 1:23:57
  doesn't open. There's another door that
• 1:23:59
  I'm not that I don't see right now.
• 1:24:01
  There's a window, there's a door, there's
• 1:24:02
  something else that I am not noticing.
• 1:24:04
  And that's kind of how I feel about the
• 1:24:06
  marine naturalist thing is that I took it
• 1:24:08
  as originally like this is, I know enough
• 1:24:11
  that I can teach people and it's
• 1:24:12
  something that will
• 1:24:13
  give me some money. Cool.
• 1:24:14
  Yeah. And I didn't realize where it would
• 1:24:17
  take me. And so at the time, yeah, for
• 1:24:20
  sure. At the time, I was like, I am Yeah,
• 1:24:21
  it was a hard decision. I was so tired. I
• 1:24:23
  was so overworked. And so of course, at
• 1:24:25
  the time, it was like, man, was this the
• 1:24:27
  right choice? I feel a little bit
• 1:24:28
  overwhelmed and overworked. But now, in
• 1:24:30
  retrospect, of course, I'm like, wow,
• 1:24:32
  that gave me so many tools that I didn't
• 1:24:34
  realize I needed for a career that I
• 1:24:37
  really loved. I had always wanted to do
• 1:24:40
  science communication. I didn't even know
• 1:24:41
  what that really was, though, right?
• 1:24:43
  Like, I always just wanted to do science communication.
• 1:24:43
  I always just wanted to teach, I always
• 1:24:45
  just wanted to help people connect to the
• 1:24:47
  ocean, I'd always wanted to be a part of
• 1:24:50
  that. But I didn't know it was called
• 1:24:51
  science communication. I didn't know that
• 1:24:53
  there was an actual career or job in it.
• 1:24:56
  Like there was, like, none of that was
• 1:24:57
  information that I understood until it
• 1:24:59
  was kind of happening. And I was like,
• 1:25:01
  Oh, okay, this is this is all the blocks
• 1:25:04
  are coming, they're building something. I
• 1:25:07
  just wasn't able to see what the
• 1:25:08
  structure was until I took a step back.
• 1:25:10
  So no, you know, yes, it was a hard
• 1:25:13
  decision. And, you know, there's always a
• 1:25:16
  part of you that's one that likes to if
• 1:25:18
  and but about things, right? What what
• 1:25:20
  could have been what could have been what
• 1:25:22
  would have been. But now I
• 1:25:24
  think I, I'm very thankful.
• 1:25:27
  You know, I actually was just talking to
• 1:25:29
  quite a few other science friends about
• 1:25:30
  this, particularly women in science, we
• 1:25:33
  kind of, you know, it's hard to be on in
• 1:25:36
  science. I think everybody can see that,
• 1:25:38
  you know, we're, we're, we're tend to be
• 1:25:41
  overlooked quite a bit. And one of the
• 1:25:44
  things that I was talking to quite a few
• 1:25:45
  of my like friends about is that, you
• 1:25:48
  know, we get these opportunities for
• 1:25:51
  research. And sometimes you just want to
• 1:25:53
  take them because you're like, well, I
• 1:25:54
  got an opportunity, I want
• 1:25:55
  to take it like, that's cool.
• 1:25:56
  I'm a woman in science that got an
• 1:25:59
  opportunity given to you, I want to take
• 1:26:00
  it. But then you have to think about is
• 1:26:02
  this actually research that I want to be
• 1:26:04
  doing? Is this actually what I want to be
• 1:26:06
  specialized? Is this going to help me in
• 1:26:07
  the long run? And so those things are
• 1:26:09
  kind of what I, you know, try and reflect
• 1:26:11
  on. And the research that I was involved
• 1:26:14
  in was really interesting and really
• 1:26:15
  cool. But it's not, I don't think what I
• 1:26:18
  would have wanted to be doing in the long
• 1:26:19
  term. So would that have benefited me in
• 1:26:22
  the long term is kind of one of those
• 1:26:23
  things that I try and remind myself. And, you know, I think that's a really cool thing.
• 1:26:25
  And, you know, I think a lot of times we
• 1:26:27
  kind of like pigeonhole ourselves into
• 1:26:29
  like, you know, this is the opportunity
• 1:26:31
  that I got. And so now I'm just doing
• 1:26:32
  exactly this. But now I, you know, have
• 1:26:36
  had such a passion now for sustainable
• 1:26:38
  seafood and for fisheries and aquaculture
• 1:26:40
  and all of these things that I wouldn't
• 1:26:42
  have been able to be involved in it had I
• 1:26:43
  gone down that path, or it would have
• 1:26:45
  been a hard pivot from that path.
• 1:26:47
  So I think that gets that I think there's
• 1:26:50
  always something on the horizon that you
• 1:26:52
  just can't see and that you got it, you
• 1:26:54
  got to trust in the universe a little bit
• 1:26:55
  sometimes, which doesn't feel good, but
• 1:26:57
  you got to try and do it.
• 1:26:59
  For sure. I just recently did an episode
• 1:27:01
  on conservation careers. And I mentioned
• 1:27:03
  that like, sometimes those decisions are
• 1:27:05
  really hard at the time, because you have
• 1:27:06
  no idea where it's going to take you. But
• 1:27:08
  then there's no really
• 1:27:09
  right or wrong decision.
• 1:27:10
  You know, as long as you're not hurting
• 1:27:11
  anybody, there's no real right or wrong
• 1:27:13
  decision, whatever the decision is,
• 1:27:14
  that's your path. It was meant to be and
• 1:27:16
  then you just go ahead and do it and you
• 1:27:18
  make the best of it.
• 1:27:19
  Sometimes, oftentimes, it ended up any
• 1:27:21
  benefiting you in the end, you know, you
• 1:27:24
  do science communication, I assume we'll
• 1:27:25
  talk about in a second. You've got some
• 1:27:28
  opportunities, you know, available to you
• 1:27:29
  that you probably wouldn't have had if
• 1:27:32
  you didn't start the science
• 1:27:33
  communication, right.
• 1:27:33
  And I've had the same opportunity, like
• 1:27:36
  I've had similar opportunities or
• 1:27:37
  similar, you know, different
• 1:27:38
  opportunities with with podcasting that
• 1:27:40
  have come to me where like, I would never
• 1:27:42
  would have predicted
• 1:27:42
  this if it hadn't happened.
• 1:27:44
  And I think it kind of opens up our mind
• 1:27:46
  a little bit forces us a little bit to do
• 1:27:47
  it, but opens up our mind. So I really
• 1:27:49
  like that. The other thing that you
• 1:27:50
  mentioned earlier, which I think is
• 1:27:52
  really important to is obviously your
• 1:27:54
  partner plays a big role in your life,
• 1:27:56
  you know, life partner.
• 1:27:58
  She's there to do, you know, you guys are
• 1:28:00
  living it together, you know, there's
• 1:28:01
  compromise to happen. She moved with you
• 1:28:05
  to the Big Island. And she
• 1:28:07
  moved with you again, after that.
• 1:28:11
  Obviously, that's amazing thing to do,
• 1:28:12
  right? You know, to go, Hey, if you want
• 1:28:14
  to do this, we got to move away, let's
• 1:28:16
  let's go ahead and do this.
• 1:28:19
  Like, how is it like, how important is
• 1:28:20
  that to you to have that support there to
• 1:28:23
  do that? And wasn't it difficult decision
• 1:28:24
  for her to say, Yeah, let's go to these
• 1:28:26
  places. It can't be an easy thing, right?
• 1:28:29
  Um, I will say first off, it was not a
• 1:28:33
  difficult decision for her. She is so
• 1:28:35
  much of the let's explore the world. I
• 1:28:38
  want to get out there. I want to do
• 1:28:39
  things. So I don't feel bad about that
• 1:28:43
  whatsoever. Because I think I'm the one
• 1:28:45
  who struggled with it more. I'm like, I
• 1:28:47
  want to be home. And she's like, she's
• 1:28:49
  like, those don't know the things that
• 1:28:51
  you want. And the goals that you have in
• 1:28:52
  mind are not aligning right now. Like,
• 1:28:54
  you need to figure it out. And I'm like,
• 1:28:56
  Oh, yeah, you're right. You
• 1:28:58
  might have a good point there.
• 1:28:59
  So yeah, she's the one that likes to
• 1:29:01
  explore and to get out there and be big.
• 1:29:04
  So no, that that wasn't necessarily the
• 1:29:07
  issue. But I do think having a strong
• 1:29:08
  support system is so essential.
• 1:29:11
  Particularly if you're doing like digital
• 1:29:13
  science communication, I think we touched
• 1:29:15
  on this before we started recording of
• 1:29:17
  people can be the online community can be
• 1:29:20
  a lot, it can be really tough.
• 1:29:21
  You know, it's your the words that you
• 1:29:24
  say can get misconstrued so so easily
• 1:29:27
  people can take things out of context,
• 1:29:29
  take a single singular sentence from a
• 1:29:31
  whole video out of context, and it can
• 1:29:34
  snowball into something else. And so
• 1:29:36
  having a really strong support system is
• 1:29:38
  necessary. This is one of the things that
• 1:29:40
  I get asked all the time at conferences,
• 1:29:41
  people are like, how do you do
• 1:29:43
  everything? How do you go to school and
• 1:29:45
  do research and do science communication
• 1:29:46
  and like keep your head up of water? And
• 1:29:48
  I'm like, I have a really, really strong support system.
• 1:29:50
  Not just my partner, but also like, I
• 1:29:52
  have some really incredible best friends
• 1:29:54
  that are always there. And you know who I
• 1:29:57
  can call for pretty much anything. I am
• 1:29:59
  very, very lucky in that way to have such
• 1:30:01
  an incredible, strong support system. And
• 1:30:04
  I think that is an essential part of
• 1:30:06
  being in like conservation or being in
• 1:30:09
  advocacy, particularly if you're doing it
• 1:30:11
  digitally, because like my partner is not
• 1:30:14
  an online person, she doesn't have social
• 1:30:16
  media. She doesn't do any of that. No,
• 1:30:18
  she's that's not her thing whatsoever.
• 1:30:19
  She is very, very, very good.
• 1:30:20
  She's very private, keeps to herself. And
• 1:30:22
  that is so, so lovely for me, because
• 1:30:26
  there's times where I'm like, God, I hate
• 1:30:28
  this. I hate everybody. Like, I'm just so
• 1:30:30
  miserable. I'm so mad. And she's like,
• 1:30:32
  put your phone down.
• 1:30:34
  We need to be called out that way.
• 1:30:36
  Yeah.
• 1:30:38
  Put your phone down. Let's go for a walk.
• 1:30:40
  Like, let's go. Yeah, let's go. Let's go
• 1:30:41
  feel some sunshine on your
• 1:30:42
  skin. I'm like, oh, yeah.
• 1:30:45
  Right.
• 1:30:46
  A little reminder. I check. Yeah.
• 1:30:49
  And so I think that's very important.
• 1:30:51
  Like, it's not necessarily that you have
• 1:30:52
  to have something that's offline as much
• 1:30:53
  as I do. But I think it's important to
• 1:30:55
  have somebody that reminds you of these
• 1:30:56
  things that reminds you to be like, hey,
• 1:30:58
  you you are going into a place of like
• 1:31:02
  letting the internet rot your brain a
• 1:31:03
  little bit like the internet is getting
• 1:31:05
  inside you, you need to go outside, you
• 1:31:07
  need to go look at the ocean.
• 1:31:09
  Yeah.
• 1:31:10
  Remind yourself why you're doing what
• 1:31:12
  you're doing. And you're like, Oh, yeah,
• 1:31:13
  you're 100% correct. And so I feel very
• 1:31:16
  lucky to have that even the other day, I
• 1:31:17
  was on FaceTime with one of my best
• 1:31:19
  friends. And I somebody on threads, made
• 1:31:23
  one of those comments that just drives me
• 1:31:25
  absolutely bonkers where they were like,
• 1:31:27
  if you're not vegan, you're not an
• 1:31:28
  environmentalist. And I was like, I'm
• 1:31:30
  coming for you. And so I like, you know,
• 1:31:32
  we need to have a discussion.
• 1:31:33
  Yeah. So you know, me and my, my little
• 1:31:36
  contacts and everyone's commenting. And,
• 1:31:38
  you know, we were watching our favorite
• 1:31:40
  show together. That's what we were doing
• 1:31:42
  on FaceTime. I brought up threads, and
• 1:31:43
  she could see it on my face that I was
• 1:31:45
  reading. And I was getting granary. And
• 1:31:46
  she was like, put the keyboard warriors
• 1:31:48
  away, like put them away, stop. And I was
• 1:31:52
  like, Oh, yeah, you're
• 1:31:52
  right. You're right. Right. Okay.
• 1:31:54
  It's difficult sometimes. And I get I'm
• 1:31:57
  right there with you. Sometimes I read
• 1:31:59
  comments, even if it's on other people's
• 1:32:00
  posts. And I'm just like, I need I have
• 1:32:03
  the need to say something. I have, but it
• 1:32:06
  gets me charged up. Yeah. And it's, I
• 1:32:08
  coach, I coach my girls hockey team. We
• 1:32:10
  have a rule in his words, like the 24
• 1:32:12
  hour rule, whereas like after a game, no
• 1:32:15
  parent can come up and like, yell at you
• 1:32:17
  or anything like that, they have to give
• 1:32:18
  24 hours to like calm themselves down and
• 1:32:20
  they can talk to you after that. Great
• 1:32:22
  rule should be in all sports. And usually it is.
• 1:32:23
  I feel like it almost should be for for
• 1:32:27
  for social media to like, if I see a
• 1:32:29
  comment, I'm just like, Oh, this is gonna
• 1:32:31
  get me angry. I'm gonna get emotional
• 1:32:32
  about this. Then I was like, just leave
• 1:32:34
  it, put it down. Like, wait, wait 24
• 1:32:36
  hours. And then that comment is still
• 1:32:39
  going to be there. And then you can get
• 1:32:40
  after it that way. Yeah, like it's
• 1:32:42
  difficult, though, sometimes. Oh, it's so
• 1:32:44
  hard not react. Right. Yeah. But when you
• 1:32:47
  do like, you've had some some posts of
• 1:32:49
  your own where, you know, I'm sure you
• 1:32:51
  get comments on it, especially when you're talking about the
• 1:32:52
  LGBTQ plus and it's, you know, it's a
• 1:32:58
  hard thing to like you want it, you want
• 1:33:01
  to talk about it because you want to get
• 1:33:03
  your opinions out and then people are
• 1:33:04
  commenting some pretty hateful comments
• 1:33:06
  or, you know, some pretty just not nice
• 1:33:09
  comments and you respond to it. But you
• 1:33:12
  always respond to it in such a way you
• 1:33:14
  look like you know, you're calm, you
• 1:33:16
  almost like it feels and maybe you're
• 1:33:17
  not. It's it's what the what it seems to
• 1:33:20
  me when I watch it. But you're like, I'm not going to be able to
• 1:33:22
  almost approaching it like a scientist.
• 1:33:24
  You're like, let's let's just look at the
• 1:33:25
  like, let's be reasonable here. Here's
• 1:33:27
  the situation. Here's what people are
• 1:33:29
  going through. And this is why you're
• 1:33:31
  talking about it. Can you just kind of
• 1:33:33
  talk us through when you do a post like
• 1:33:34
  that and respond? Is it one of those
• 1:33:37
  things where you wait 24 hours and then
• 1:33:39
  you kind of respond or like, how do you
• 1:33:41
  look so calm? I don't know if you are
• 1:33:43
  enough. But how do you look so calm and
• 1:33:45
  respond that way? I would say I'm calm
• 1:33:48
  like 80% of the time. If you actually
• 1:33:50
  look at some of the videos,
• 1:33:51
  there's some of them that I get.
• 1:33:52
  I get a little heated, I get a little
• 1:33:53
  frustrated. Okay. Understandably so.
• 1:33:56
  Yeah, there's there's a few and and funny
• 1:33:57
  enough, it's the ones that I get
• 1:33:58
  frustrated that people like don't listen.
• 1:34:00
  I'm like, Oh, yeah, maybe maybe I should
• 1:34:02
  be a little bit more calm. Because I like
• 1:34:04
  you said, I do get caught up with it
• 1:34:06
  sometimes where I'm just like, I can't I
• 1:34:08
  can't deal with you right now. And then I
• 1:34:09
  go I lose my cool a little bit. But that
• 1:34:13
  is the ones where I have resources and I
• 1:34:16
  have, you know, I am a bit more calm. I
• 1:34:19
  do come at it from a very scientific
• 1:34:20
  perspective that people
• 1:34:22
  understand a little bit better. So I try
• 1:34:24
  and remember that. It doesn't always
• 1:34:26
  work. Yeah, I'm not I'm not perfect. I
• 1:34:28
  have my moments. But you know, I really
• 1:34:32
  tried to remind myself that like, when
• 1:34:35
  you come at things with data points, and
• 1:34:37
  with, you know, genuine perspectives, and
• 1:34:40
  with, you know, the actual experiences
• 1:34:42
  that queer people have experienced,
• 1:34:44
  people who are better at time of
• 1:34:45
  listening, but also, there's people that
• 1:34:47
  don't want to listen. There's people that
• 1:34:48
  don't care, no matter how much data you
• 1:34:50
  have, no matter how much you articulate
• 1:34:52
  your point, they don't want to listen.
• 1:34:55
  And I've definitely experienced that. And
• 1:34:56
  I think it was last month or the month
• 1:34:58
  before that, I was talking about a couple
• 1:35:01
  of girls who are in Hawaii who are very
• 1:35:03
  anti LGBTQ, but are also a marine
• 1:35:06
  conservationist. And I'm like, this is a
• 1:35:08
  genuine problem that we experience in the
• 1:35:10
  marine conservation field is we have a
• 1:35:12
  lot of anti LGBTQ people,
• 1:35:13
  which their sentiments, their
• 1:35:15
  mentalities can leak into policies and
• 1:35:17
  legislations. And that's a huge issue.
• 1:35:19
  And I've seen it within, you know, when
• 1:35:22
  we're at conservation conferences, I've
• 1:35:24
  seen those things, we've kind of brought
• 1:35:26
  up those prejudice, the kind of
• 1:35:29
  infiltrate into actual policy building.
• 1:35:32
  And so it's a problem that we need to be
• 1:35:33
  addressing. And of course, those two, the
• 1:35:36
  two that I was mainly talking to didn't
• 1:35:38
  didn't want to hear it didn't want to
• 1:35:39
  care didn't have any opinion. But it was
• 1:35:43
  the other people, right?
• 1:35:44
  All all all the others,
• 1:35:45
  all the others that were listening were
• 1:35:46
  like, Oh, I didn't realize how big of an
• 1:35:48
  issue this was. I didn't realize that so
• 1:35:51
  many of the people that I support, and
• 1:35:53
  that I like find, you know, my
• 1:35:55
  information from have a negative
• 1:35:57
  perspective of like my community, the
• 1:36:00
  people that that's who I am. So I think
• 1:36:03
  it is, I understand how important of a
• 1:36:05
  topic it is to be discussing. So I try
• 1:36:08
  and remind myself of that. So I'm like,
• 1:36:09
  remain calm. Yeah, articulate your point.
• 1:36:13
  It was a really important conversation.
• 1:36:15
  And again, I think that's
• 1:36:15
  what I'm trying to do. And again, I'm not
• 1:36:15
  perfect. It doesn't always go doesn't
• 1:36:17
  always work. Like, if you really look at
• 1:36:19
  those times, there is one video where I
• 1:36:21
  have lost it. I lost Michael. But you
• 1:36:25
  know what, where it happens. And I,
• 1:36:29
  that's, that's just what I do, you have
• 1:36:32
  to do. And necessarily, like, that's not
• 1:36:34
  necessarily that's something that
• 1:36:35
  everyone has to do. But I think with the
• 1:36:39
  platform that I have, and with developing
• 1:36:41
  that platform, like I said, I developed
• 1:36:43
  that platform, that platform got better.
• 1:36:45
  They built off the lesbians. It was on
• 1:36:47
  the back. That's how I got there. That's
• 1:36:49
  how the first 100 K came about. Was the,
• 1:36:52
  my backbone of my community of my marine
• 1:36:55
  conservation area, our lesbians, I so
• 1:36:57
  therefore, my, I need to stand up for my
• 1:37:00
  community, like the the queer community
• 1:37:03
  are the people that are there.
• 1:37:06
  lifting me up, therefore I have to turn
• 1:37:08
  around and do the same.
• 1:37:09
  And I feel the responsibility
• 1:37:10
  to do that. So that's why it's very
• 1:37:12
  important to me. Like I
• 1:37:14
  said, I can't always come at
• 1:37:15
  it with a calm
• 1:37:16
  demeanor, but I try not to.
• 1:37:18
  Understandably, understandably, too. I
• 1:37:19
  mean, it's very
• 1:37:20
  frustrating to watch, you know,
• 1:37:23
  sometimes even like cis male, you know,
• 1:37:25
  white guy, middle age, I
• 1:37:26
  try to do my best to keep
• 1:37:28
  my mind open and make sure that, you
• 1:37:30
  know, I do my best to keep
• 1:37:31
  everybody like keep everybody
• 1:37:33
  around me inclusive and that it provides
• 1:37:34
  approach like I could be
• 1:37:35
  approachable, right? And
• 1:37:37
  but like, it's true. Like when you watch
• 1:37:38
  some of those things, you're it's
• 1:37:40
  amazing. But like, I
• 1:37:40
  learned from these videos as well. Right?
• 1:37:43
  I learned about some of the
• 1:37:44
  policies where he's like, I
• 1:37:45
  never thought I never would have thought
• 1:37:46
  about that. And it's just out of
• 1:37:47
  ignorance. It's not out
• 1:37:48
  of malicious, you know, behaviors, just
• 1:37:49
  like, Oh, never thought that
• 1:37:51
  well, that makes sense. And
• 1:37:52
  then you, you know, you start putting it
• 1:37:53
  together. If I'm ever in
• 1:37:54
  a position where I have
• 1:37:55
  influence on that and same with other
• 1:37:56
  people. I mean, but you have
• 1:37:58
  over 350,000 followers on on
• 1:38:01
  TikTok, which is absolutely phenomenal.
• 1:38:03
  But not everybody is anti
• 1:38:04
  LGBTQ, as you mentioned,
• 1:38:06
  a lot of them, you know, a lot of your
• 1:38:07
  followers are from the
• 1:38:08
  lesbian community. So it's like,
• 1:38:09
  hey, like, they got my back and they
• 1:38:12
  understand. But I think it's also
• 1:38:13
  important to realize,
• 1:38:14
  and I do this sometimes too, with in
• 1:38:16
  different aspects, when
• 1:38:17
  people talk about climate change
• 1:38:18
  conservation, they, they say some things
• 1:38:20
  that aren't true. It's
• 1:38:20
  like, I'm not there to refute
• 1:38:22
  just what you're saying. I'm there to
• 1:38:24
  educate the other people who
• 1:38:25
  look at the comments or who
• 1:38:26
  look at my posts or whatever that might
• 1:38:28
  be. That's important for science
• 1:38:30
  communication. I don't think
• 1:38:32
  we realize that and that could cause
• 1:38:34
  conflict for us in the future
• 1:38:36
  by the very people that you're
• 1:38:37
  responding to, but you're really not
• 1:38:39
  responding to them. And you're really
• 1:38:41
  responding more to like,
• 1:38:42
  Hey, by the way, for those of you who
• 1:38:43
  really want to know, this is what climate
• 1:38:45
  change in or is this is what
• 1:38:46
  some of the policies that are put in
• 1:38:47
  place that we need to change. And I think
• 1:38:49
  that's the important part
• 1:38:51
  from a scientific point of view that I
• 1:38:52
  get out of it. And I hope I assume, you
• 1:38:55
  know, you do as well. I think
• 1:38:56
  that's an important part, right? Yeah,
• 1:38:58
  absolutely. It's always, it's always
• 1:39:00
  about the people that
• 1:39:01
  you don't realize are
• 1:39:02
  watching. Right. Now, you know, when you
• 1:39:07
  do your videos, you have you talk a lot
• 1:39:09
  about a lot of different things,
• 1:39:11
  right? We talked about the LGBTQ
• 1:39:12
  community, especially within marine
• 1:39:14
  science, you, you talk
• 1:39:16
  about your naturalist
• 1:39:17
  stuff. I'm looking at a video right now.
• 1:39:19
  I see starfish. I see like I'm just
• 1:39:21
  watching the clips right now. But it like
• 1:39:24
  that's your naturalist coming out that
• 1:39:27
  experience coming out. And you do
• 1:39:29
  education on like
• 1:39:30
  looking at dive tips and like
• 1:39:31
  when you went back home and like, you
• 1:39:33
  know, there's a lot of been a lot of
• 1:39:36
  submarine reports come
• 1:39:37
  out over the last few
• 1:39:38
  years, you have that experience with some
• 1:39:40
  reason. Do you like when you wake up
• 1:39:42
  every day, do you have an idea of what
• 1:39:45
  you're going to post or like, do you do
• 1:39:48
  you plan that out ahead of time to just
• 1:39:51
  being like, yeah, like, this is what I'm
• 1:39:53
  going to talk about today. And how is
• 1:39:55
  that influenced by, you
• 1:39:57
  know, what you see around you?
• 1:39:59
  I think I always have a plan and the plan
• 1:40:01
  tends to always go awry. So I've really
• 1:40:03
  learned over the past
• 1:40:04
  four years that like,
• 1:40:06
  yet, like I have a whole list of things
• 1:40:08
  that I'm like, here are content pieces
• 1:40:09
  that I would love to talk
• 1:40:10
  about. Like I have lists
• 1:40:12
  of my phone, I have lists of my planner,
• 1:40:13
  I have lists everywhere of like, here's a
• 1:40:15
  content idea, which I think is really
• 1:40:17
  useful on those days that you're like, I
• 1:40:18
  don't know what to talk about. Like,
• 1:40:19
  there's nothing that's
• 1:40:20
  come about. I don't have
• 1:40:21
  anything. Wait, let me go reference this
• 1:40:22
  whole list of things of ideas that I have
• 1:40:24
  that I can make something based off of.
• 1:40:27
  But a lot of the times, it'll be like, I
• 1:40:30
  want to record this
• 1:40:31
  today. And then I'll open
• 1:40:32
  Instagram or open TikTok. And I have 40
• 1:40:34
  tags. And I'm like, what is going on? And
• 1:40:36
  it's something that people are like, can
• 1:40:37
  you talk about this? Can you reference
• 1:40:38
  this? What is this person referring to?
• 1:40:40
  And I'm like, oh, okay, I got to put that
• 1:40:42
  what I was going to talk about in the
• 1:40:43
  back burner for a second, put it back on
• 1:40:45
  my list, address this. So I tend to see
• 1:40:49
  that like, sometimes I have plans.
• 1:40:51
  Sometimes I'm like, this will be this
• 1:40:53
  day, this will be this day. And sometimes
• 1:40:54
  that works out. But oftentimes, I find
• 1:40:56
  that it's what the take what what my
• 1:40:58
  audience wants to hear what they're
• 1:40:59
  asking for. Okay, let me address that
• 1:41:01
  first. So it really depends. And I've
• 1:41:04
  learned that plan to make content don't
• 1:41:09
  necessarily always be planning on what
• 1:41:11
  that content is going to be. I have scripts for things that are going to be
• 1:41:13
  a lot of things that I haven't recorded
• 1:41:14
  yet, because I will make the script, I'll
• 1:41:16
  get on TikTok. And there's something else
• 1:41:17
  that needs to be addressed, okay? We're
• 1:41:19
  going to focus on that instead. So you
• 1:41:21
  know, there's always have those as a
• 1:41:22
  backup, if you want to, that's always
• 1:41:24
  nice. Yeah, there's always days that you
• 1:41:26
  that there's nothing going on in the in
• 1:41:28
  the ocean world. Like, I mean, that's not
• 1:41:29
  true. There's always something going on
• 1:41:30
  in the ocean world, but nothing on
• 1:41:32
  TikTok, right? Yeah, nothing that the
• 1:41:34
  TikTok audience have grabbed on to quite
• 1:41:36
  yet. So those days, oh, I have I have
• 1:41:38
  things I have lots of stuff that I could
• 1:41:40
  talk about. I have lots of things that I
• 1:41:41
  can bring up. I have lots of content that
• 1:41:42
  I can produce. And I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing
• 1:41:43
  but there's also days that you just got
• 1:41:44
  to listen to what people
• 1:41:45
  want to hear and listen to the
• 1:41:46
  questions that people are asking. And
• 1:41:48
  that's an important aspect,
• 1:41:49
  especially to social media,
• 1:41:50
  it is supposed to be social, right? It's
• 1:41:52
  supposed to be engaging.
• 1:41:53
  And if you engage with some of
• 1:41:54
  your followers, or even if they haven't
• 1:41:56
  followed you, but they've
• 1:41:56
  watched your videos before,
• 1:41:58
  because that can happen on TikTok, you
• 1:41:59
  know, they're tagging you
• 1:42:00
  in this like, hey, you know,
• 1:42:02
  because I'd love to hear about this, you
• 1:42:04
  know, I want to hear about
• 1:42:05
  this, like, what are your
• 1:42:06
  thoughts? And I think that's really
• 1:42:07
  important to address, like almost right
• 1:42:09
  off the bat, as soon as
• 1:42:10
  you see it's just like, Oh, yeah, like,
• 1:42:12
  this is something that I want to, I want
• 1:42:13
  to be able to talk about to
• 1:42:14
  answer it and clear things up. Obviously,
• 1:42:16
  people want some clarification or a
• 1:42:18
  response or something
• 1:42:19
  like that. I, yeah, I think that's a,
• 1:42:21
  that's a great idea. Now, when you, when
• 1:42:24
  you're looking at these
• 1:42:25
  videos, they, how long does it take you
• 1:42:28
  to make a video? I'm just curious,
• 1:42:29
  because they're short form,
• 1:42:31
  but they're really not short form in the
• 1:42:32
  making. It depends on what the topic is.
• 1:42:36
  Like, if it's a little bit more fun,
• 1:42:37
  like the teaching people how to like, a
• 1:42:40
  couple of dive tips I have for people,
• 1:42:42
  right? I think took me like 45 minutes,
• 1:42:44
  because I was also getting like footage,
• 1:42:46
  right? I was like, Okay, I got a couple
• 1:42:47
  videos of me, so I can show
• 1:42:49
  exactly what I'm talking about.
• 1:42:50
  So I got to grab. So like, thank you both
• 1:42:52
  those things, right? Like, got to dig
• 1:42:53
  through my videos, find the video that
• 1:42:55
  I'm referring to, pull that out, get on,
• 1:42:57
  you know, do all of that.
• 1:42:59
  Of course, you I like I watch back as I'm
• 1:43:02
  making my TikTok, because
• 1:43:03
  for me, like I I've I've cried and using
• 1:43:06
  my phones until they absolutely die. So I
• 1:43:09
  still have, I think this is like an
• 1:43:10
  iPhone 11, which means that sometimes
• 1:43:12
  there's glitches, right? Sometimes it
• 1:43:14
  doesn't always grab the audio or
• 1:43:16
  whatever. So I, I try and watch as I go,
• 1:43:19
  not every single clip, but a couple
• 1:43:20
  clips, okay, watch did did did all the
• 1:43:22
  audio work, did it was there any
• 1:43:24
  glitches? And sometimes that happens,
• 1:43:26
  right? Sometimes there's a glitch, okay,
• 1:43:27
  got to record that, re record that piece,
• 1:43:29
  okay, try. And so I try and give myself
• 1:43:31
  time. So I think that one
• 1:43:32
  took me a little bit longer.
• 1:43:33
  I mean, about 45 minutes. But then it
• 1:43:35
  depends, like, if it's a topic about
• 1:43:37
  something that's like a research piece or
• 1:43:40
  a question that people are asking, I try
• 1:43:42
  and put a lot of effort into researching
• 1:43:45
  the question and making sure that like
• 1:43:46
  what I'm talking about is the most recent
• 1:43:49
  and updated version.
• 1:43:51
  And sometimes it's not sometimes, you
• 1:43:53
  know, that's the thing about science that
• 1:43:55
  that I'm trying to break with being a
• 1:43:58
  science communicator is how difficult it
• 1:44:01
  can be and how exclusionary exclusion,
• 1:44:04
  exclusionary, exclusionary. Is that the
• 1:44:06
  right word? You don't have to say. Yeah,
• 1:44:08
  I can be very, you know, hard to find
• 1:44:11
  like that. It's behind a paywall. It's,
• 1:44:14
  you know, here in Canada, we have
• 1:44:15
  different regulations on on what news you
• 1:44:18
  can access because they
• 1:44:19
  were trying to, you know,
• 1:44:21
  they were trying to mitigate the spread
• 1:44:24
  of misinformation. But that in order to
• 1:44:27
  do so, they just got to put a blanket
• 1:44:28
  over everything, over everything makes it
• 1:44:31
  a little difficult. So, you know, it's
• 1:44:33
  sometimes it's even difficult for
• 1:44:35
  scientists to find the most updated
• 1:44:36
  information, right? There's something
• 1:44:38
  there's always something coming out,
• 1:44:39
  there's new public, there's new people
• 1:44:40
  every single day. So I try and do my best
• 1:44:44
  to find the most recent information to
• 1:44:46
  look and see what I'm looking at. So that
• 1:44:49
  can take time that
• 1:44:49
  alone can take a few hours.
• 1:44:51
  To make sure that I am reading the most,
• 1:44:53
  you know, updated things and and combing
• 1:44:55
  through papers. That is so difficult
• 1:44:57
  sometimes. The way that oh, yeah, the way
• 1:45:00
  scientists write is so convoluted. I like
• 1:45:04
  I just want to I'm like, we need to make
• 1:45:06
  abstracts something that like a regular
• 1:45:08
  person could read. And that would be
• 1:45:11
  beneficial. Like, I get, like, I get
• 1:45:13
  that, like, you know, there's two or
• 1:45:15
  three sentences about the actual what you
• 1:45:17
  did. That's not gonna make sense to
• 1:45:19
  people that like don't actually know what
• 1:45:20
  you're involved with. Sure.
• 1:45:21
  I'll give you that. Yeah, but like, for
• 1:45:23
  the most part, your abstract should be
• 1:45:24
  able to be digestible for a general
• 1:45:27
  audience. You almost need a blog for
• 1:45:28
  abstracts. Really? Like a blog for
• 1:45:31
  abstracts. Yeah, truly. And I think,
• 1:45:33
  yeah, some some grace for your actual
• 1:45:36
  methods and methodologies, because that's
• 1:45:38
  that's just how things are. But man,
• 1:45:40
  sometimes I'm like, do we have to use the
• 1:45:43
  thesaurus for every single word? Is that
• 1:45:46
  necessary? And it's just sometimes it
• 1:45:50
  drives me absolutely
• 1:45:51
  botherous. Because I'm like, if I'm
• 1:45:52
  struggling with this, yeah, like, nearly
• 1:45:55
  10 years of science experience experience
• 1:45:57
  experience of I'm struggling. Yeah,
• 1:45:59
  imagine a regular person trying to
• 1:46:01
  research this and trying to figure out
• 1:46:03
  the answer. They're not going to get
• 1:46:05
  there. They're also going to have to pay
• 1:46:06
  like $7000 because it's every every paper
• 1:46:09
  is behind a paywall. Like, let me know if
• 1:46:11
  I work for a university right now. So I
• 1:46:13
  get access to a certain amount of papers,
• 1:46:15
  even then there's still someone that are
• 1:46:17
  behind paywalls from
• 1:46:18
  and let's just be honest, like these
• 1:46:19
  these yeah, these subscriptions for the
• 1:46:21
  universe at the universities pay are
• 1:46:22
  like, in the tens of thousands of dollars
• 1:46:24
  per per, you know, publisher, it's
• 1:46:27
  ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's it's
• 1:46:29
  it's insane. And I think that's what
• 1:46:31
  takes me the most time is really combing
• 1:46:33
  through all of that science. So, and then
• 1:46:36
  obviously, like writing my script, kind
• 1:46:39
  of going over it, because that that's the
• 1:46:41
  one of the hardest parts about science
• 1:46:43
  communication is trying to
• 1:46:45
  double check your own biases of
• 1:46:48
  what words and what things make like I
• 1:46:50
  know that like my general audience is not
• 1:46:52
  going to know because sometimes I'll use
• 1:46:54
  terminologies that I am just so used to.
• 1:46:57
  Yeah, I'm like, Oh, everyone's gonna know
• 1:46:59
  that. And then I then all of a sudden
• 1:47:01
  people are like, Oh, are you saying
• 1:47:03
  you're like, Oh, yeah, sorry. I realized
• 1:47:05
  now that like, like, that's not a that's
• 1:47:08
  not a common term. That's not a vocab
• 1:47:10
  word that everyone got to have in high
• 1:47:11
  school. That is something that I've just
• 1:47:13
  like been ingrained with so hard that I
• 1:47:15
  think everybody knows now,
• 1:47:16
  but that's not. Oh, yeah.
• 1:47:17
  I always get caught up in the acronyms.
• 1:47:20
  There are times I've used the acronym so
• 1:47:22
  much. I don't know what it stands for
• 1:47:24
  anymore. It's just the app. Sure. I know
• 1:47:26
  what the acronym is.
• 1:47:27
  For sure. Every time I say Noah and I
• 1:47:28
  leave like, what does Noah stand for? I'm
• 1:47:30
  like, Oh, the well, it's the place with
• 1:47:34
  the ocean. I know
• 1:47:37
  they're in there somewhere.
• 1:47:38
  Yeah, they're somewhere there. Yeah,
• 1:47:41
  yeah, like I definitely understand. And
• 1:47:43
  like, for me, Noah is like that acronym
• 1:47:46
  is so you know what I'm talking about. I
• 1:47:49
  was saying, yeah, you say that to a
• 1:47:52
  regular person. They're like, talking
• 1:47:54
  about like, you'll see
• 1:47:55
  the face go. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:47:57
  Yeah, that's one of those words that we
• 1:47:59
  have because of the experience that we
• 1:48:00
  have. We know it so well. We don't even
• 1:48:03
  think about it anymore. But most people
• 1:48:05
  really don't know what that is and don't
• 1:48:07
  know what they do. So yeah, that's,
• 1:48:09
  that's probably one of the hardest parts
• 1:48:10
  is like, yes, coming through the science
• 1:48:12
  and then I got to build the script a
• 1:48:14
  little bit and then I got to relook at
• 1:48:15
  the script and be like, okay, what in
• 1:48:16
  here? Am I missing? What in here? What in
• 1:48:20
  here is not going to make sense to
• 1:48:21
  somebody? And what should I elaborate on
• 1:48:24
  a little bit? And it can
• 1:48:25
  even just be one little
• 1:48:27
  sentence, right? Noah, the American
• 1:48:29
  Oceans and Atmosphere organization. Boom.
• 1:48:32
  Yeah, that covers it. But sometimes you
• 1:48:34
  forget to do those things. So I try and I
• 1:48:37
  try and comb through it all and then
• 1:48:38
  record. Then of course, you got to you
• 1:48:40
  got to edit it, you got to do all of
• 1:48:41
  that. And I like try and use green
• 1:48:43
  screens and that stuff because I try and
• 1:48:45
  make it visually appealing to my audience
• 1:48:47
  as well, which is, you know, where people
• 1:48:49
  are losing their attention spans. So you
• 1:48:51
  got to keep the attention.
• 1:48:52
  Even with short videos, you got to switch
• 1:48:54
  it up. And so like, you know, getting the
• 1:48:56
  pictures, editing the pictures to be the
• 1:48:58
  right size for TikTok, all that takes
• 1:49:00
  quite a bit of time. It takes a lot more
• 1:49:02
  time than people realize, I think.
• 1:49:03
  Yeah, 100%. And I think also with the
• 1:49:06
  evolution of TikTok in terms of the time
• 1:49:08
  limits that they offer, you know, first
• 1:49:10
  used to be what, 30 seconds? Yeah, then
• 1:49:12
  it became 60 seconds, then three minutes
• 1:49:15
  now 10 minutes. How hard was it for you
• 1:49:19
  to get all the information into one
• 1:49:22
  minute? Did you do a lot of like part
• 1:49:24
  one, part two, part three,
• 1:49:25
  like that type of content?
• 1:49:28
  Absolutely. The minute limit was was
• 1:49:30
  tough. Like I, I really love the three
• 1:49:32
  minutes because I think I
• 1:49:33
  can get a good piece. Yes.
• 1:49:35
  Even like two minutes with three minutes
• 1:49:38
  gives me the leisure of okay, I can edit
• 1:49:41
  down a little bit. I can kind of scramble
• 1:49:42
  around. But when it was a minute strict,
• 1:49:45
  you could hear me like the last two coats
• 1:49:47
  being like, and this is trying to like,
• 1:49:50
  shout for sentences
• 1:49:52
  into the last 10 seconds.
• 1:49:53
  Because you're out of time and there's
• 1:49:57
  no, and there's no leeway. There's no,
• 1:49:59
  you know, there's no, there's nothing
• 1:50:00
  you're, you're cut off at 60 seconds. But
• 1:50:02
  now I appreciate that those are a little
• 1:50:04
  bit more like I usually just go straight
• 1:50:06
  to the 10 minute feature.
• 1:50:07
  And I rarely, rarely go over three
• 1:50:09
  minutes. I write, you know, but having
• 1:50:12
  that 10 minutes of time lets me play
• 1:50:15
  around a little bit, right? Let's me.
• 1:50:17
  Okay, what can I edit down? What can I
• 1:50:18
  take out? What can
• 1:50:19
  what can you move around?
• 1:50:20
  And it also gives you the ability to kind
• 1:50:22
  of like stop to right like because you
• 1:50:24
  can clip off those little pieces you can,
• 1:50:26
  yes, take a breath, take your sentence.
• 1:50:28
  Okay, click. Whereas before you were
• 1:50:31
  like, click, click, click.
• 1:50:32
  Yeah, all the time.
• 1:50:33
  Go. I appreciate that we've kind of moved
• 1:50:36
  a little bit as far as editing on tick
• 1:50:38
  tock to have a little bit more space and
• 1:50:40
  time. So yeah, I and I try and not go
• 1:50:44
  over because I tend I noticed now like,
• 1:50:46
  no, a lot of my content
• 1:50:47
  is very educational, very
• 1:50:49
  science-based that like if it's too long
• 1:50:53
  I'm gonna lose people. They can only, you
• 1:50:56
  know, they're on TikTok because they want
• 1:50:57
  to have fun. They want to scroll a
• 1:50:59
  little bit. Sure they want to, you know,
• 1:51:01
  they're like, "Oh yeah, I'll sit for a
• 1:51:02
  minute and learn." That's nice. I'll
• 1:51:04
  learn from you today.
• 1:51:06
  Yeah, but like a quick piece of
• 1:51:07
  learning something new is kind of, you
• 1:51:09
  know, what people are going for. So I try
• 1:51:12
  and find that sweet spot of like how do I
• 1:51:14
  make sure I'm getting you the right
• 1:51:15
  information, the correct information,
• 1:51:17
  information that you can understand and
• 1:51:19
  utilize, but also in an entertaining way
• 1:51:21
  that's not going to go over your time
• 1:51:23
  limit of your brain. So it's a real
• 1:51:25
  tricky balance that we're constantly
• 1:51:26
  trying to kind of figure out and work
• 1:51:28
  with. Yeah,
• 1:51:29
  absolutely. It is. It's kind of
• 1:51:31
  funny. You know, like, you know, you're
• 1:51:32
  not only trying to do that, but you're
• 1:51:33
  trying to learn the software. Are you
• 1:51:35
  trying to, do you edit
• 1:51:35
  all on your phone? Is
• 1:51:36
  that what you're saying? Like you do it
• 1:51:37
  all? I edit mostly on
• 1:51:38
  my phone. I have, I do
• 1:51:40
  have CapCut and stuff on my computer, but
• 1:51:43
  I just, I find it like I take most of my
• 1:51:45
  footage on my phone. So I do have like,
• 1:51:48
  yeah, loading up. You just upload from my
• 1:51:51
  phone and edit from there. So yeah,
• 1:51:52
  that's kind of what I
• 1:51:54
  mostly do it from. I have
• 1:51:55
  played around with it on my laptop, but
• 1:51:57
  also like I'm a scientist on my laptop.
• 1:52:00
  I have like our running. There's like, I
• 1:52:02
  think I have like 10 fucking research
• 1:52:05
  papers open right now. The second I open
• 1:52:08
  my laptop, all of a sudden I'm like, oh
• 1:52:09
  yeah, I got to write that paper. Oh yeah.
• 1:52:12
  Yeah. So I'm like, what about my phone?
• 1:52:16
  Like I, this is, this is my science
• 1:52:17
  communication world. This is
• 1:52:19
  my research world, you know, so
• 1:52:23
  that's hilarious. That's so, so true too.
• 1:52:26
  I have like so many tabs open a lot of
• 1:52:27
  times when I record all of a sudden,
• 1:52:29
  like, like computers, like we're just
• 1:52:30
  chugging here. You need to like close a
• 1:52:32
  lot of these tabs. I'm like, I only have
• 1:52:33
  like 400 open. I don't understand why
• 1:52:35
  it's, you know, why it's taking so long,
• 1:52:37
  but yeah, no, I completely get, I learned
• 1:52:40
  editing on my laptop. So like going
• 1:52:42
  to the phone, I'm just like, this is not
• 1:52:45
  easy, like doing text and everything like
• 1:52:47
  that. I'm like, I have to scroll. And of
• 1:52:48
  course, every font that I like is the
• 1:52:51
  lowest on the screen. Oh, for sure. And
• 1:52:53
  you're just like, come on, like, and
• 1:52:55
  they have to find all the time. Anyway,
• 1:52:56
  but I appreciate, I respect the, the
• 1:52:59
  editing on the phone because I have such
• 1:53:01
  a hard time doing it. It's not easy.
• 1:53:04
  It's, it's not takes a while to get used
• 1:53:05
  to, I imagine, but, but you do such a
• 1:53:08
  great job because you do like, it's not
• 1:53:09
  just like you're just talking into the,
• 1:53:11
  into the camera all the time. Like there
• 1:53:12
  are some words like day in the life of,
• 1:53:14
  and, you know, all those types of, of
• 1:53:16
  like vloggy type of content that take a
• 1:53:20
  while to go through because then you have
• 1:53:21
  to do the voiceover as you're putting
• 1:53:22
  them all through and that. So yeah, the
• 1:53:24
  editing is, is a, is a vibe for sure,
• 1:53:26
  because it's not as if it's easy to do or
• 1:53:29
  it takes, it always takes time because
• 1:53:31
  you have to pay attention to every single
• 1:53:33
  detail. Absolutely. That's great.
• 1:53:36
  But this is just, sorry, go ahead. Go
• 1:53:38
  ahead. No, no, I was
• 1:53:39
  just saying, I like those
• 1:53:39
  pieces because I like to remind people
• 1:53:41
  that I'm a human. I think that a lot of
• 1:53:43
  the times people get on, uh, see
• 1:53:45
  scientists online and they're like,
• 1:53:47
  that's what they are. They're a scientist
• 1:53:49
  and they just know all they are
• 1:53:52
  omnipotent scientists. And I'm like, I am
• 1:53:55
  a human. I am just, I
• 1:53:58
  am just a human. I'm,
• 1:54:00
  I'm just a girl that likes the ocean and
• 1:54:03
  studies the ocean. Like I'm going to
• 1:54:04
  make mistakes. I'm going to say things
• 1:54:06
  that are incorrect. Sometimes science is
• 1:54:07
  constantly changing. I am just a human
• 1:54:10
  that is trying my best. And so I, I like
• 1:54:12
  making those pieces, even though they can
• 1:54:14
  be kind of tedious because like you
• 1:54:15
  said, you got to go through that
• 1:54:16
  voiceover gradual of those things. But I
• 1:54:18
  think it reminds you that there's a human
• 1:54:20
  aspect to it. And that was one of
• 1:54:21
  the biggest things when I got a
• 1:54:23
  management team for my science
• 1:54:25
  communication, I was like, like, I am not
• 1:54:27
  becoming like the commercial person.
• 1:54:30
  I am not becoming this like one entity.
• 1:54:34
  Like that's never who I'm going to be.
• 1:54:35
  I need the internet to remember that I am
• 1:54:38
  just a human that like, that like likes
• 1:54:40
  to create content and likes to share
• 1:54:43
  about science communication and wants to
• 1:54:45
  connect people to the ocean and wants to
• 1:54:46
  help people get involved in marine
• 1:54:47
  conservation. But I am just
• 1:54:50
  a person. Give me some grace.
• 1:54:54
  I agree with you there. You know, that's
• 1:54:56
  one thing that somebody told me when I
• 1:54:57
  first started, I was asking, you know, I
• 1:54:59
  was changing up my intro one of the times
• 1:55:01
  I was doing a podcast and I was asking
• 1:55:02
  for feedback and I had a good friend of
• 1:55:04
  mine. She always helps me out in terms of
• 1:55:06
  like what I should go with and like
• 1:55:08
  kind of just confirms some of the things
• 1:55:10
  that I want to do. And she was always
• 1:55:11
  like, give us a little bit of tidbit of
• 1:55:12
  like your personality. Like what's going
• 1:55:14
  on in your life? Like, what do you like?
• 1:55:16
  Which is it's so funny because I
• 1:55:18
  interview people to get that personality
• 1:55:20
  out. Like what they're like, I want
• 1:55:22
  people to know how cool our scientists
• 1:55:24
  are. And like they're
• 1:55:25
  like everybody else,
• 1:55:27
  they're human beings, you know, and they
• 1:55:28
  love certain things. They don't like
• 1:55:30
  certain things. And this is who they are.
• 1:55:32
  And that's that's the fun part of it.
• 1:55:34
  But I never really thought of it for
• 1:55:35
  myself until I get
• 1:55:36
  reminded like, hey, you
• 1:55:37
  know, it's through a little bit like
• 1:55:39
  what's going on in
• 1:55:39
  your life, how the kids
• 1:55:40
  you know, all that kind of stuff. And so
• 1:55:42
  every once in a while, I'll throw
• 1:55:43
  something down because it just it's
• 1:55:44
  humanized you. Yeah, people are listening
• 1:55:46
  to you, whether they're watching you on
• 1:55:47
  TikTok or listening through the podcast.
• 1:55:50
  It gets you're in your ears, right?
• 1:55:51
  You're in their eyes on a regular basis.
• 1:55:54
  And so they tend to have
• 1:55:55
  that like, almost like a loyalty to you.
• 1:55:57
  But like, you're
• 1:55:58
  like, in there, they're an
• 1:56:00
  influence, you're an influence. I guess
• 1:56:01
  that's where the influence came from. But
• 1:56:02
  you're an influence and how they think
• 1:56:04
  about marine science and, and having that
• 1:56:07
  personality I really like I loved your
• 1:56:09
  the videos of you going back to Hawaii.
• 1:56:12
  Thank you.
• 1:56:13
  That was really I felt that was really
• 1:56:14
  special. And just
• 1:56:15
  because you're like, you
• 1:56:16
  love you can tell you love it just from
• 1:56:17
  the podcast. But before I knew you loved
• 1:56:19
  just from that video,
• 1:56:20
  because you're like, it was wild
• 1:56:22
  since you had been back and you want to
• 1:56:24
  do you know, spend time with your friends
• 1:56:26
  and you're like,
• 1:56:26
  there's you're talking about,
• 1:56:27
  couldn't see everybody was a little
• 1:56:28
  chaotic, but it's a lot. It's always fun.
• 1:56:30
  I like that part,
• 1:56:31
  because it does show that
• 1:56:33
  personality. Yes, you know a ton about
• 1:56:35
  marine science, and you're willing to
• 1:56:36
  share everything. But
• 1:56:37
  yeah, you got to get to
• 1:56:38
  know you got to get to know the
• 1:56:39
  Mackenzie, right? That's the best part of
• 1:56:42
  it all. And I think
• 1:56:43
  that's important, because
• 1:56:44
  then it allows people to be like, Oh,
• 1:56:47
  well, yeah, don't go attacking her. She's
• 1:56:49
  just doing what she's doing. You know,
• 1:56:51
  she's just doing what she loves.
• 1:56:52
  So let her let her do that. And I think
• 1:56:54
  that's, that's, that's really important.
• 1:56:56
  I got to ask just as we kind of wrapping
• 1:56:57
  up here, and you and I could
• 1:56:59
  probably talk for like three hours just
• 1:57:01
  on on science communication alone. You
• 1:57:03
  know, coming up, you've had, you know,
• 1:57:06
  there's been probably
• 1:57:06
  opportunities presented, you talked about
• 1:57:07
  like a management team now that you have.
• 1:57:10
  Where do you want to take your science
• 1:57:12
  communication? Like, how do you want to
• 1:57:14
  like, I know, like I've been on your
• 1:57:15
  website talks a lot about science
• 1:57:17
  communication. Where do you want to go
• 1:57:18
  with with all of this?
• 1:57:20
  Um, well, right now, I am like waiting to
• 1:57:23
  hear about a graduate program that I've
• 1:57:26
  applied for. And so thank you. I'm very
• 1:57:31
  nervous. It would be a
• 1:57:33
  very big, a big transition in my life.
• 1:57:36
  And so that is something that I kind of,
• 1:57:37
  I would like to take my audience along
• 1:57:39
  with me and what that looks
• 1:57:41
  like. Yeah, so that's just, yeah, that's
• 1:57:44
  that's kind of what I you know, I did a
• 1:57:46
  graduate diploma. So just
• 1:57:47
  a one year in fisheries and
• 1:57:48
  agriculture. And it's allowing me to
• 1:57:50
  apply for this program. And it's, it's a
• 1:57:53
  bit it would be a big, big move, big, big
• 1:57:55
  transition. And so I
• 1:57:58
  am, you know, kind of just kind of
• 1:58:04
  waiting and I like to share about that. I
• 1:58:05
  think that's kind of where I see myself
• 1:58:08
  going is sharing more of my research and
• 1:58:10
  what I'm doing actively in the field. I
• 1:58:13
  still like you know, I enjoy, I've made,
• 1:58:15
  you know, the pandemic when I was a
• 1:58:17
  little bit like I was, you know, taking
• 1:58:18
  care of my grandma, I wasn't as active in
• 1:58:20
  actual research. I, you know, got to make
• 1:58:23
  really fun videos like, you know, like
• 1:58:25
  what octopus you are based on your zodiac sign and all that. And I think that's kind of where I'm going.
• 1:58:41
  And that's kind of where I want to start
• 1:58:43
  leaning into. So yes, I still want to make fun science communication videos, but I also want to bring people in to the research a little bit more. And I last year I was doing research at a lab that wasn't as successful as I was doing before.
• 1:58:52
  And so I didn't get to share as much as
• 1:58:53
  what I was doing. And like now the paper
• 1:58:56
  is kind of in production and it will be
• 1:58:57
  published this year. That's kind of what I've been working on lately is is getting that paper ready. And so once it's published, I'll be able to kind of talk about a little bit more.
• 1:58:59
  But just because of the like the nature
• 1:59:00
  of, of, you know, of the lab and what
• 1:59:01
  they kind of do. Sometimes you can't
• 1:59:03
  sometimes you can't. Yeah, sometimes it's
• 1:59:04
  awesome. It's going to be discussed.
• 1:59:06
  There's, you know, there's that's that's
• 1:59:08
  the nature of things. That's
• 1:59:10
  just kind of the honest thing.
• 1:59:29
  So, you know, I'm, but the lab that I
• 1:59:33
  applied for the graduate program that I
• 1:59:34
  applied for, they're very open. Their
• 1:59:36
  whole basis is, you know, it is climate change and fisheries and all of these sorts of things that's their main focus, but also they have a real emphasis on science communication and the advisor has, you know, talked to me about it.
• 1:59:45
  And it's very open to me sharing my
• 1:59:49
  experiences, which was really important
• 1:59:51
  to me when I was applying for this
• 1:59:52
  graduate program. So that's kind of where
• 1:59:55
  I want to go is yes, still have those
• 1:59:57
  kind of fun pieces still be educating, but also be showing what what life is really like that, you know, yes, marine science can be really fun. And yes, it is an incredible career.
• 2:00:04
  I love it with all my heart, but it is
• 2:00:09
  not just like playing with dolphins and
• 2:00:11
  going for swimming. It is also a lot of
• 2:00:14
  times. Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be
• 2:00:16
  great. There's also like a lot of science
• 2:00:18
  involved. There's a lot of sitting behind my computer. You know, there's a lot of sitting right here at this spot on this laptop, looking out this window of how beautiful of a day it is. It'd be amazing.
• 2:00:27
  I don't get to go outside because I have
• 2:00:30
  to write this frickin grant. I have to
• 2:00:33
  sit here and yeah, code some are always
• 2:00:37
  that that's always fun. People love our
• 2:00:40
  yeah, for sure. No, we would never we would never speak down about our ever. So you know, like that. I think that reality is so important.
• 2:00:51
  I, I, when I first got involved in
• 2:00:53
  science communication, I found people
• 2:00:54
  like always talked about like the
• 2:00:56
  benefits of of marine science and there
• 2:00:58
  was always these videos that were like
• 2:00:59
  marine science and it's like there's
• 2:01:01
  dolphins and there's ocean and there's all these things and they're going for Diaries and they're all this stuff. I'm like, I'm like, okay, that yes, but also I think that we should like tell people that like that's not all of us.
• 2:01:11
  Yeah, a lot of it is analyzing all your
• 2:01:14
  data is office time is sitting in a lab.
• 2:01:17
  It is waiting for your PCR to run. It is waiting for your you know, your experiment to be to be conducted. It's all of these things that are not as glamorous. And so that's one of the things I started talking about that I think people really connected to because I was like, I'm going to do a lot of things because I think that's really cool.
• 2:01:21
  It is waiting for your, you know, your
• 2:01:23
  experiment to be to be conducted. It's
• 2:01:25
  all of these things that are not as
• 2:01:27
  glamorous. And so that's one of the
• 2:01:28
  things I started talking about that I
• 2:01:29
  think people really connected to because
• 2:01:31
  I was like, it's underfunded. It can be
• 2:01:34
  really tough. There we still deal
• 2:01:36
  competitive. Oh, it's competitive. It's
• 2:01:38
  so competitive. It's very much who you
• 2:01:40
  know, it's, you know, and a lot of times
• 2:01:42
  you're up against your friends, which
• 2:01:43
  does not feel good. You're going up
• 2:01:45
  against people that you're working, you
• 2:01:46
  know, that you've worked
• 2:01:47
  with that you've studied with.
• 2:01:49
  It is it is not all fishies and dolphins.
• 2:01:52
  It is is is hard. And so that's kind of
• 2:01:55
  one of the things that I've I talked
• 2:01:56
  about previously that people really
• 2:01:57
  connected to people really thankful for
• 2:01:59
  that. And I've gotten a lot of messages
• 2:02:00
  of people being like, thank you for that.
• 2:02:03
  Like, I really want to get into marine
• 2:02:04
  science, but I didn't realize that there
• 2:02:06
  was all of these other aspects. And I'm
• 2:02:08
  like, no, I'm glad that you were able to
• 2:02:09
  understand that. And so that's kind of
• 2:02:11
  where I want to keep going. I want to
• 2:02:12
  keep educating, keep talking, keep
• 2:02:14
  bringing people, connect people to the
• 2:02:15
  ocean, giving them that like sense of
• 2:02:17
  care, giving them that.
• 2:02:18
  Ability to want to be involved in marine
• 2:02:21
  conservation. You know, I always think
• 2:02:22
  that's the most important part. If I can
• 2:02:24
  teach you about a new animal that oh my
• 2:02:26
  God, you're obsessed with that animal.
• 2:02:27
  Okay, cool. In order to protect that
• 2:02:28
  animal, we have to do all of these things
• 2:02:29
  as well. There's there's pieces that are
• 2:02:32
  important. Yeah, exactly. So I, you know,
• 2:02:36
  I always will do that. I will always keep
• 2:02:37
  doing that. But also, I'm really excited
• 2:02:39
  to share a little bit more about what the
• 2:02:41
  world really looks like and and what all
• 2:02:44
  those things are aspects. So we'll, we'll
• 2:02:46
  know in a few weeks, hopefully.
• 2:02:47
  And and I know it's gonna turn out well.
• 2:02:50
  I have the feeling you deserve it. You
• 2:02:53
  definitely deserve it. You know, all the
• 2:02:54
  decisions you made to get to where you're
• 2:02:56
  at. They've been for a reason. You are an
• 2:02:58
  amazing scientist. The way you speak
• 2:03:00
  about science is amazing. And you can
• 2:03:03
  tell there's a lot of passion in there.
• 2:03:05
  So, you know, fingers crossed. But I'm
• 2:03:07
  very confident that you'll get this. And
• 2:03:09
  we can't wait to see. I speak on behalf
• 2:03:12
  of the audience here. We can't wait to
• 2:03:13
  see what you what you're gonna come up
• 2:03:15
  with. Thank you. And the science is amazing.
• 2:03:16
  And the content you're gonna make after
• 2:03:18
  you get this. So I can't wait to see. So
• 2:03:21
  it's gonna be a lot of fun to it to be
• 2:03:22
  able to see that. And I know what's gonna
• 2:03:23
  happen. I know it. It's it has to be in
• 2:03:27
  the cards. You deserve it. So anyway, you
• 2:03:29
  look, this has been fantastic. I'd love
• 2:03:31
  to invite you back on another time to be
• 2:03:33
  able to talk more. And then maybe we'll
• 2:03:35
  talk more about about what's gonna happen
• 2:03:37
  with you with your graduate work. That'll
• 2:03:39
  be fun. But it's also, you know, if you
• 2:03:41
  want to check out Mackenzie, it's let me
• 2:03:44
  just make sure I have it right.
• 2:03:45
  It's Mackenzie S E A at the end. So M C K
• 2:03:52
  E N C E S C S E A. I can't spell. I'll
• 2:03:56
  put in the link so everybody can see it.
• 2:03:57
  But check out the TikTok and the same
• 2:03:59
  handle for Instagram. Correct? There's an
• 2:04:01
  underscore because somebody stole my
• 2:04:05
  username. I've tried to argue with
• 2:04:07
  Instagram about it for years now to let
• 2:04:08
  me have it because it's a it's a count
• 2:04:10
  that nobody uses. It's a private account
• 2:04:11
  that's never had anything on it. And I'm
• 2:04:13
  like, please just give it to me. Just give it to me.
• 2:04:14
  Yeah, that's the worst justice. I think
• 2:04:20
  this is great. I want people to check it
• 2:04:22
  out and let us know how you feel about
• 2:04:24
  it. You know, reach out to you if they if
• 2:04:27
  they want to get more, they want to have
• 2:04:29
  a question about an animal. I'm sure
• 2:04:30
  you'll be able to answer it. I'll go on
• 2:04:32
  the list of things to be able to answer.
• 2:04:34
  But absolutely, Kenzie, Mackenzie, this
• 2:04:36
  has been amazing. I really appreciate you
• 2:04:38
  coming. Like I said, it's been on my
• 2:04:39
  bucket list for a while. And I'm just
• 2:04:41
  really happy to have you on it. I would
• 2:04:42
  love to have you back on anytime.
• 2:04:44
  Of course, I would love to love to be
• 2:04:46
  back on this was very fun. Thank you,
• 2:04:48
  Mackenzie, for joining us on today's
• 2:04:49
  episode of the How to Protect the Ocean
• 2:04:51
  podcast was great to be able to get to
• 2:04:52
  know you to get to know how you got to
• 2:04:55
  where you are, how you got so many
• 2:04:56
  followers and just the amount of effort
• 2:04:59
  you put in to each of those pieces of
• 2:05:01
  science communication on every platform.
• 2:05:03
  I just think it's fantastic. I don't
• 2:05:04
  think we realize how much work goes into
• 2:05:07
  creating content these days and to be
• 2:05:09
  able to create good content, whether it's
• 2:05:11
  a video that you put up for
• 2:05:12
  five minutes and it goes viral.
• 2:05:13
  Or it's a video you spend, you know, 45
• 2:05:16
  minutes to two hours on editing and
• 2:05:18
  making sure there's enough B roll to keep
• 2:05:20
  people engaged and to inform people of
• 2:05:22
  what there's do. It is harder than you
• 2:05:24
  think. Trust me as a content creator. It
• 2:05:26
  is not easy to put everything you need to
• 2:05:28
  put to make it not only to balance the
• 2:05:30
  entertainment value, the education value
• 2:05:32
  and the conservation
• 2:05:32
  value. It's a lot of work.
• 2:05:34
  And I just love how Mackenzie will sort
• 2:05:37
  of stand up for herself online when you
• 2:05:40
  put yourself out as a content creator,
• 2:05:42
  you put yourself out to criticism and
• 2:05:44
  some criticism for me, especially like
• 2:05:46
  when I get Christmas is valid. Sometimes
• 2:05:48
  like the like, oh, yeah, I missed a
• 2:05:49
  little piece or I could have added to
• 2:05:51
  that piece and it's valid to acknowledge,
• 2:05:53
  you know, either in
• 2:05:54
  another video or in the comments.
• 2:05:55
  But then there are sometimes when they
• 2:05:56
  just come for your throat for no reason
• 2:05:58
  and you have to stand up for yourself.
• 2:06:00
  There's sometimes you have to wait and
• 2:06:01
  there's sometimes you have to stand up
• 2:06:03
  for yourself. And sometimes you have to
• 2:06:04
  get emotional. Sometimes you don't.
• 2:06:05
  And it's just really hard to balance that
• 2:06:07
  and making sure that you have people in
• 2:06:09
  your life to kind of spitball certain
• 2:06:11
  ideas of how to respond, making sure that
• 2:06:13
  you're calm and collective and making
• 2:06:15
  sure you take that 24 hour rule in my
• 2:06:16
  case anyway, or take a couple of hours
• 2:06:18
  just to wait and be able to respond
• 2:06:20
  because you don't want to get too
• 2:06:21
  emotional around it in terms of.
• 2:06:24
  Not making your case because you're not
• 2:06:26
  thinking the way you want to think,
• 2:06:28
  right? That's really what it goes down
• 2:06:29
  to. But the way Mackenzie is able to
• 2:06:32
  balance that is phenomenal. The way she
• 2:06:34
  sometimes will, as she mentioned, be a
• 2:06:36
  little more emotional or sometimes not
• 2:06:38
  emotional and just respond in a
• 2:06:40
  scientific way and in a conservation way
• 2:06:42
  or an educational way.
• 2:06:43
  I just think it's phenomenal. And, you
• 2:06:45
  know, some of the topics, especially when
• 2:06:47
  it comes to the LGBTQ plus community and
• 2:06:49
  some of the things that she's probably
• 2:06:50
  heard in the response that she's had in a
• 2:06:52
  negative way that will get you there. And
• 2:06:54
  it's very difficult to watch people have
• 2:06:56
  to listen to that and have to go through
• 2:06:58
  that. But the way she responds, I have
• 2:06:59
  utmost respect for it. So I really love
• 2:07:01
  the way she does her content. So follow
• 2:07:04
  her. I'll put the
• 2:07:04
  links in the show notes.
• 2:07:06
  I want you guys to get to know Mackenzie
• 2:07:12
  like I get to know Mackenzie is a real
• 2:07:14
  pleasure to have her on the podcast. I
• 2:07:15
  can't wait to have her back again. They
• 2:07:17
  listen to some more educational content
• 2:07:20
  as well as find out more about her and
• 2:07:22
  what she's up to. So thank you again,
• 2:07:24
  Mackenzie. And I want to thank you for
• 2:07:25
  listening. I would love to know what you
• 2:07:27
  think of the type of topics that
• 2:07:29
  Mackenzie covers, how she covers them. If
• 2:07:31
  you know her, you've been a follower for her for a while. Love to know what made you follower. I want to know what you think of Mackenzie.
• 2:07:33
  And if you have any comments on the way
• 2:07:40
  we do content, love to hear those
• 2:07:41
  thoughts as well. So just make a comment
• 2:07:44
  on YouTube if you're watching this on
• 2:07:45
  YouTube or you can hit me up on Instagram
• 2:07:48
  at how to protect the ocean. That's how
• 2:07:50
  to protect the ocean or go to speak up
• 2:07:51
  for blue.com. We have everything in
• 2:07:53
  contact with us. We have a contact page
• 2:07:54
  or you can just put the comment just
• 2:07:56
  right on the episode page. I want to thank you again for joining me on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the channel.
• 2:08:03
  I'm Andrew Norsch, strong and free. Have
• 2:08:04
  a great day. We'll talk to
• 2:08:05
  you soon and happy conservation.