Latest / Unbalanced with Cerys Davage / 40. Smashing blind stereotypes (ft. BlindTobes)

Transcript

40. Smashing blind stereotypes (ft. BlindTobes) · Unbalanced with Cerys Davage

0:09
Hello everyone, welcome back to another video recorded episode
0:13
of Unbalanced with Me, Kera Savage.
0:16
How are you all doing today? I've got another interview
0:19
episode for you guys and I'm really excited about this one.
0:22
He's been on a bit of a role. He's been on other podcasts this
0:25
week as as well. He's in demand, but please
0:28
welcome Blind Tobes AKA Toby Addison.
0:32
Hello. Hi.
0:33
How are we? I'm good, thank you.
0:35
I'm excited to get this podcast finally done.
0:39
We've been chatting about this for a while so.
0:41
It's mainly my fault we've been there's even more pipeline I
0:44
feel like for probably 5 months. I know, it's crazy.
0:49
Day found an hour to slot in. I know summer is crazy anyway
0:53
but we've both got quite booked up schedules it it sounds.
0:57
We do. I mean, I've got to do this and
0:59
then pop off to London afterwards, so I won't be back
1:01
until 8:00 this evening doing bits, but I'm happy this.
1:05
Is. This is one of the podcasts that
1:07
I've been excited to do for a while now.
1:09
That's very exciting. Well, thank you very much.
1:11
So introduce yourself to us. Where are you from and what do
1:14
you do? So my name's Toby, I'm a blind
1:18
content creator and I guess most importantly a disability
1:21
advocate. I'm originally from London,
1:24
Hertfordshire area but I live on the South Coast of England now
1:28
and yeah I'm also a blind footballer so got fingers and a
1:31
lot of pies and do a lot of things but it mainly revolves
1:34
around disability and spread and awareness.
1:36
Which is great because I'm sure we have a lot of topics we can
1:39
cover in this episode, which is great.
1:41
Could you give us a summary of how you became blind?
1:46
Yeah, so I've always been visually impaired.
1:49
I was diagnosed with a condition called retinitis pigmentosa when
1:53
I was 2. My parents didn't know when I
1:56
was born, but I had a visual impairment.
1:58
But there was some telltale signs, you know, like not
2:00
necessarily picking up when people have walked in the room
2:03
or walking into things that I really shouldn't be walking
2:06
into. I think my parents thought that
2:08
I was just an idiot, actually. You know, we went to my GP and
2:12
then later the opticians, and they, yeah, informed us that I
2:17
had a condition that was going to deteriorate over time.
2:20
Unfortunately, my condition is really, really aggressive
2:23
compared to what it would normally be like.
2:24
So people with RP wouldn't actually know they're losing
2:27
their vision until they're potentially in their 30s
2:29
forties. Mine was super aggressive and I
2:32
lost all of my usable vision by the time I was 16.
2:36
Wow, How was that? You know, because obviously
2:39
being a teenager, you know, you're already going through so
2:42
many changes. I can't imagine throwing that
2:44
into the mix. Yeah, I think this is, this is a
2:47
big point of disability that I like to try and get people to
2:50
understand is, yeah, we've got a disability and that can be
2:55
challenging regardless of your situation.
2:58
But we are normal people too, have normal lives, normal
3:01
struggles. If most of us think back to our
3:03
teenage years, a lot of the time they're not very smooth.
3:06
They're quite rocky. So if you Chuck in a a
3:08
disability and quite a severe disability on top of that as
3:11
well, my growing up period from probably primary school, end of
3:16
primary school up to kind of sick form time was absolutely
3:19
horrendous. Wow, that is crazy.
3:22
I mean, it kind of reminds me of when I first started getting
3:25
symptoms. I was about 12.
3:26
But going into high school, you know, it's difficult enough to
3:30
understand your own condition. That alone, you know, have your
3:32
friends understand, you know, did you have that support system
3:35
around you when you were going through those changes?
3:38
I had a good friendship group when I still had a decent amount
3:42
of vision, like I could do everything that your average
3:45
could produce. I was like playing football and
3:47
you know, just messed about with mates and stuff.
3:49
And then my sight did start to go and they all took a bit of a
3:53
step back because disability just, I don't know if it still
3:58
is really in schools, but it wasn't spoken about back then.
4:01
And kids didn't know how to respond to someone who was going
4:05
through like quite a traumatic period in their life.
4:08
So I lost quite a lot of my friends.
4:09
I was quite isolated and I was just trying my best to fit in.
4:13
As a result of that, I was a bit ashamed of my disability.
4:17
And, you know, I did everything in my power to act like I could
4:21
see. So I should have started using
4:22
my cane for example when I was about 1314.
4:25
I didn't use it until I lost all my usable vision at 16 because I
4:28
was so desperate to not look or be blind.
4:33
Yeah, oh, there's such a misconception about being
4:36
disabled and such a negative stereotype around it.
4:39
And I can definitely relate with a wheelchair, you know, like,
4:42
I've been putting off using one for so long.
4:44
But it is actually there not only to help you, but it's also
4:48
a visual aid for other people to just know that you've got
4:51
something going on. You know what I mean?
4:52
Yeah. Well, that's the biggest thing,
4:54
you know, I mean, in terms of canes, you can have a a
4:57
slightly, obviously the stereotypical 1 is you've got
5:00
the, the big stick with the ball on the end, which is what people
5:02
with very, very low vision use to navigate.
5:05
But someone who's visually impaired could, you could use a
5:07
symbol cane, which doesn't do anything like functionally for
5:11
the person, but it is what it says.
5:13
It's a symbol and it lets people know.
5:15
But you still get so hesitant because of the, well, like you
5:19
said, the stereotypes and the attitudes surrounding
5:21
disability. It's almost a big kind of label
5:25
on yourself saying, yeah, I'm incompetent, I'm less than you
5:28
judge me. Well, that's not what it should
5:30
be, but that's definitely what it feels like.
5:33
Oh, definitely. Like as soon as you've got that
5:36
cane or you know, any kind of mobility aid, you've, you're,
5:40
you're immediately sending out signals to other people like,
5:42
please pity me. Please, you know, think of me as
5:45
my disability and not who I actually am.
5:47
So that's quite a tough balance sometimes.
5:50
It's like you probably resonate with it because I'm sure you've
5:53
used other like mobility aids other than a wheelchair, like
5:56
crutches and sticks and stuff. I know a lot of people with the
5:59
same condition as me do use crutches.
6:02
I personally don't see them working for me just because it
6:05
affects my arms as well. So I'm sure putting all the
6:08
pressure on my arms probably be that good for it.
6:11
But I remember, you know, it started off just going to
6:14
airports and I would have to use an airport wheelchair just to
6:17
get around because airports are huge anyway.
6:20
And if I stood out of the wheelchair then to walk through
6:23
security or whatever, people around me would stare at me as
6:26
if a miracle has just happened. So that's quite a common thing
6:29
is people not knowing that wheelchairs are actually there
6:31
just to just to give you a bit of help.
6:33
You know, it's not there because you physically cannot walk,
6:36
which is crazy because most wheelchair users can walk.
6:40
But you still get, you know, you still feel so self-conscious
6:43
when you use it because, you know, people's reactions, even
6:45
if I cross my legs when I'm in a wheelchair, people are like
6:49
looking at me funny. Like, wait, her legs actually
6:50
work? That's weird.
6:52
You find it hard with like going from having no mobility aid to
6:56
what people would see as like the biggest mobility aid in a
6:59
wheelchair. Like with with no middle ground
7:01
almost. Yeah, Oh definitely.
7:03
I mean it's either struggle on your own or use a wheelchair.
7:07
I do use kind of my boyfriends arm to help me sometimes and
7:11
that could be seen as we're just linking arms, but it actually
7:14
really helps me. But it is such a strange
7:17
transition, going from looking fully able to looking completely
7:23
disabled. There's like no in between.
7:25
And it's still a balance I'm trying to adjust to.
7:29
But I feel like a lot of my problems are actually solved in
7:33
a wheelchair, strangely enough, because when I walk I've got a
7:36
bit of a waddle. I get people coming up to me all
7:39
the time, you know, asking why do I park in the blue badge
7:43
parking? Why do I walk funny?
7:46
Have I broken my leg? Have I twisted my ankle and just
7:49
a lot of things like that at which, you know, those questions
7:52
would not be asked if I had a wheelchair.
7:54
Do you find that you get a lot of comments like that without
7:58
using a stick or just you by yourself?
8:03
I think because I and there's, there isn't a way of looking
8:07
blind, but in the way that society sees blindness, I don't
8:11
look blind at all. You know, my eyes haven't
8:14
changed in appearance. Stereotypically I try to look
8:18
after myself, which isn't what people see, a blind personality,
8:20
you know, I do my hair and try and keep myself well groomed.
8:23
So people don't realise and that could be an issue in itself
8:27
because they don't actually understand the severity.
8:30
When I say I can't see, they probably presume that I'm, you
8:32
know, visually impaired, partially sighted, not blind.
8:36
And to be honest, I kind of resonate with what you said
8:39
there about using a wheelchair. Kind of solved a few issues for
8:43
me when I started to use my cane.
8:45
Like socially, it made my life so much easier.
8:50
Really. Can you can you explain a bit
8:52
more about that? I think it's because once I got
8:55
over the actual fear of using it, because I didn't want to use
8:59
it at all. Like I said, I really, really
9:00
didn't want to use it. When I did start to use it, it
9:03
was almost like a day or two of feeling really self-conscious
9:07
and then everything just kind of slotted into place and it made
9:10
me like kind of actually have a way to make people aware of how
9:14
blind I actually was. And it just makes it easier in
9:18
terms of when you're out in public, like shop assistance,
9:21
when they see the cane bear, they can understand that you
9:23
can't see, but if you explain you're visually impaired, it's
9:25
almost like they don't believe you.
9:27
Trained staff, like any assistance I need anywhere.
9:30
Like it's just easier to explain when you've got that kind of
9:34
visual representation and that stereotypical look of there's
9:38
clearly a disability there. But when I didn't have anything
9:40
'cause I could navigate without a cane for a while but still
9:42
kind of struggle. Trying to explain what you can
9:45
and can't do is really difficult.
9:48
Oh definitely. It's so strange that we have
9:51
such different disabilities, but we can relate on so much.
9:54
And what you just said about transport, If I take the train
9:59
in a wheelchair, it's like everyone notices that I'm in a
10:02
wheelchair. Everyone does as much as they
10:04
can. The train operators get the, you
10:06
know, the rampart to help me onto the train.
10:09
But if I don't have my wheelchair on me, I just look
10:11
like a regular young fit girl that literally can't.
10:14
I can't lift myself onto the train.
10:17
I need people to help me. I need people to maybe carry my
10:19
bag if I'm alone. And it took a while to be a self
10:23
advocate in that way, to just be really open and be open to
10:27
asking other people for help. And then that took a while.
10:31
But eventually, you know, people start helping me, but they still
10:34
don't really understand why because again, I look completely
10:36
fine. That's incredibly problematic
10:39
when you think about it because like, you're missing the gap
10:43
where the majority of disabled people lie.
10:45
Right. I'm in terms of blindness, I'm
10:48
at the very near, near the very, very end of the spectrum.
10:52
But you know, 90% of the people fall in the bracket where they
10:56
might not use a cane or a guide dog.
10:58
I don't know what it's like with wheelchair using ambulatory.
11:01
That's a really hard word to say.
11:02
Ambulatory. Ambulatory, yeah.
11:05
You know, like a lot of ambulatory wheelchairs.
11:07
Oh my God, how do you say that? Really.
11:10
I'm not going to say it again. We know what you're saying,
11:15
yeah. There's like a large percentage,
11:18
but for time where you can and will be walking.
11:21
And if you're not getting that support that you'd get because
11:24
you're not in a wheelchair, that's really, really bad,
11:27
really problematic. It's, yeah, it's crazy.
11:30
It's kind of forcing people that maybe don't need a wheelchair or
11:34
any kind of mobility aid or visual aid to, to get them just
11:39
so they can get the help that they need in society, which is,
11:43
yeah, it's just crazy because everyone's got, you know, like
11:45
little things going on. But my mentality now, you know,
11:49
having this condition is always assuming that other people do
11:53
need help, you know, instead of just assuming that everyone's
11:56
fine, everyone's independent. They could do what they want.
11:58
There are so many people that actually do need a hand, a hand
12:01
up, a step or, you know, whatever it is.
12:04
And I don't know about you, but I've had a common misconception,
12:08
especially out at night, that I'm just really drunk.
12:11
Have you had that? Yeah, I mean, a lot of the time
12:15
I am, but. Good point, yeah.
12:19
Obviously, like, you know, sometimes I might stumble about
12:22
or trip up a curb or if my eyes do move around sometimes a bit
12:26
erratically, you know, people like Izzy Trunk, what's going
12:29
on? Especially if my cane's folded
12:30
up, for example, and not out. Yeah, people will.
12:34
I mean, to be fair, being disabled, you get all sorts
12:37
anyway, so that's probably the least concerning one I get.
12:39
But yeah, you love to, you know, assume there's something wrong
12:44
with you, but they don't automatically go to you having a
12:46
disability. Do you like to prove them wrong?
12:49
Like if someone you know tells you off for parking in a
12:52
disabled spot and then you just whip out your cane and you're
12:55
like ha ha I. Used to, I used to really do it.
13:00
I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder with that and now I'm
13:02
just, I'm so used to it now, but I almost don't care.
13:08
It's like I'll just walk away and like walk away with my cane
13:11
and get it out and just not say anything to them.
13:13
It's just like. That's probably proving a point
13:15
in itself, but. Oh yeah.
13:17
There's a part of me it's like I can't be bothered to interact.
13:20
Definitely, yeah. I mean, I'm getting kind of
13:23
learn to it now. Like I just put on a face and
13:25
I'm like, no, I have a disability.
13:26
And usually that is enough to guilt trip them on and for them
13:30
to realise, oh, I shouldn't have said that.
13:31
You know, like even you just walking away and, you know,
13:34
maybe they'll figure it out later or maybe they'll have
13:37
another encounter with someone else and they'll get caught out,
13:40
you know? I struggle with this one because
13:42
inherently they're doing a moral thing in their own head.
13:46
At least their intention is to make sure that the space is
13:49
clear for someone with an actual disability.
13:52
And obviously they've looked at myself or you and thought, you
13:56
know, disability, I'm going to approach you.
13:58
But actually, it's incredibly damaging because the awareness
14:02
on invisible disabilities just isn't there.
14:06
And that's, you know, an indictment probably of where we
14:09
are with educating people on disability.
14:12
So I always struggle because yeah, their intention's good,
14:15
but the way they approach it is just horrendous.
14:18
Yeah, and sometimes I see cars parked in disabled badges, and
14:22
maybe they haven't bought out their blue badge yet, and I'm
14:24
thinking they should not be parked there, but that now,
14:27
then, then I catch myself out, like I should not be thinking
14:30
that way because this is exactly the mentality that people have
14:34
when they actually approach them.
14:36
So yeah, that's the thing. Exactly what you said.
14:38
There's not enough education on invisible disabilities, and if
14:42
there was, people be more reluctant to go up to people and
14:46
be bold and assume well. It's just decision making, isn't
14:49
it? You, you might initially think,
14:51
oh, they don't look disabled. And then in the back of your
14:53
mind, oh, they might have an invisible disability or a
14:57
cognitive impairment that, you know, we can't see the impacts
15:00
from massively. And who am I to say who deserves
15:02
a blue patch and who doesn't? But we're nowhere near that.
15:05
Have a minute. No, hopefully one day because
15:09
life would just be so much easier then.
15:11
But there's a long way to go. But I am seeing some changes.
15:13
Like, I had a massive problem going into disabled toilets and
15:20
people would, you know, tell me that the normal toilets are
15:22
downstairs and I'm like, well, I'll tell you for what.
15:27
But now I see on a lot of disabled toilet doors there are
15:30
signs that say not every disability is visible, which
15:34
just makes me feel so much better going into them.
15:36
Like, yes, I am one of those people.
15:38
And they're not even like, yeah, they're called disabled toilets,
15:41
but, you know, people without disabilities can use them if
15:45
they feel more comfortable doing so.
15:47
You know, whether that's something to do with, I don't
15:51
know, like part of transitioning with gender, for example, or a
15:55
pregnant mum with a child might feel more, do you know what I
15:57
mean? Like I think people get it in
15:59
their head that it has to be a wheelchair user or, you know, it
16:02
has to be someone with a guide dog going in there.
16:05
You know, it's maybe the name needs to change.
16:08
I don't know the I don't know. It's true.
16:10
It it kind of, you know, fits the customers into like a label
16:15
into a box. Exactly.
16:17
Yeah. Interesting.
16:18
But when you said quite a while back now that schools just
16:23
weren't educated on disabilities, I completely agree
16:25
with you on that one. Like, where was the education
16:29
when we were in school? I just felt so isolated because
16:33
I didn't feel like anyone understood me or wanted to
16:35
understand me because no one was talking about anything like
16:38
that. So I want to know, what was it
16:42
like transitioning from after school?
16:44
Like what did you do after there?
16:46
And I know you said you started to use your cane a bit more.
16:50
What was that like? Yeah, So after school things,
16:56
things got a lot better for me when I started using my cane.
16:58
I'd gotten into this point with like my friends that I'd lost.
17:02
I was like, OK, I don't Care now.
17:03
I'd rather be by myself anyway. And I started doing a lot of
17:07
work with the the kids on SEM registers at school and stuff
17:12
while I was there. So that kind of filled my time
17:15
socially because I was, you know, helping out other kids and
17:18
stuff. But I think I've blocked out a
17:20
lot of my time at school. I really only kind of remember
17:24
what my mindset was like when I left school and went to uni to
17:27
be honest. Wow, really?
17:29
Is it just because of the negative impact school had on
17:32
you? Yeah, I didn't think I realised
17:34
until recently like how much of a negative impact my experience
17:38
at school did actually have on me.
17:40
And then I think when I went to uni I realised actually like how
17:44
it should be. So yeah, it's a weird one.
17:47
Like I don't, I don't think about my time at school or
17:49
anything. Like it's not something I'd say
17:51
was traumatic and keeps me awake at night.
17:54
But it does show how hard it can be, especially for someone with
17:57
a disability that isn't just linear like mine was changing.
18:00
So having to explain that all the time and yeah, it I can't
18:04
imagine how many people are actually in my position as well.
18:07
Yeah, that's true. But yeah, also you're adjusting
18:09
to the changes as well. But I guess now you're on a lot
18:13
of podcasts, so you're forced to kind of reflect on your whole
18:15
life a lot, which is maybe why you're a.
18:18
Lot about myself since doing media because obviously my
18:20
content is surrounded by me talking about blindness and
18:23
disability. I never used to.
18:24
I used to joke about it and banter about being blind and
18:26
stuff but I never really got asked questions in detail and
18:29
had to answer from my own experiences and reflect on
18:32
everything. Honestly the amount of things
18:34
like I'm finding out myself mentally is crazy.
18:37
It's like therapy for you. I find my podcast like a vocal
18:43
journal and I do find it like therapy sometimes because if
18:46
there's a problem or like a topic I really want to talk
18:48
about, like I think about my own experiences a lot and I'm like,
18:51
wow, I'd never actually realised how bad that was or how much of
18:56
an impact that had on me. Yeah, yeah.
18:58
But the hard thing though, is when you're trying to educate
19:01
people is having to explain that my experiences and my
19:05
experiences and they don't apply to every blind person.
19:07
What I tell you about blindness isn't the same thing every
19:10
single blind person on the planet, you know?
19:13
And that that's quite hard because I think people will see
19:16
yourself and myself as a role model and want to learn from us,
19:19
but actually you're just learning about us.
19:22
And you can apply what you learn to disability, but it's not
19:25
gospel. And that's quite a hard thing
19:26
sometimes. Yeah, so obviously by now we
19:31
know that you do a lot of content creation.
19:33
You've got over 300,000 followers on TikTok, which is
19:38
kind of crazy. When did you start that and why
19:42
did you feel like you wanted to? So I started about 2 1/2 years
19:48
ago now. I was still in uni when I
19:49
started. I never really wanted to.
19:54
It's not like I just picked up a phone one day.
19:55
I was like, yeah, let's give it a go.
19:58
There was some clips that went viral of me at the Russell
20:03
Howard show, actually. And there was a crowd
20:07
interaction with me and my cane, and it went viral.
20:10
And there were so many, like, weird and questionable comments
20:14
in the comments section of these videos, you know, talk about
20:16
blindness and saying, oh, he doesn't look blind.
20:18
He's clearly not blind. And why does he have sunglasses
20:21
and all of this kind of stuff? And I was like.
20:24
I got a bit wound up by it because obviously at that point
20:26
I wasn't used to having anyone comment on anything I did.
20:31
So I just made a video randomly off the cuff replying to these
20:35
comments and just it went viral again.
20:39
And from that point I was like, all right, well naturally we're
20:43
going to keep making content and more questions kept pouring in.
20:47
And so, yeah, never stopped. But I was doing a degree in
20:50
counselling psychology and I was looking at jobs in the NHS and I
20:53
was writing my dissertation and all of a sudden I've got 30,000
20:56
followers in a few days and got a management team within a a
21:00
week or two. And it was like, oh God, what am
21:02
I actually doing now? Wow, so your life basically
21:05
changed in a week? Oh my God, yeah.
21:07
Literally. It was ridiculous.
21:09
I can't tell you how much growth there was like I could refresh
21:14
my my page and it would have gone up like 200 followers like
21:17
in three seconds. It was ridiculous.
21:20
Like I was looking at my views on my page and like every hour
21:23
it was just going up to hundred 300,000 like views on each video
21:28
and like I hit 100K within like 5 weeks.
21:31
Wow. And then yeah, at that point I
21:34
had my management team. Within the first day of having
21:37
my management team I got a gym shark contract and I was like
21:40
what's what? That is crazy.
21:44
Wow, I know and. Then I never stopped.
21:47
And yeah, it will evolve and change, but hopefully the whole
21:50
premise of it never stops. But I would never, ever, ever
21:53
thought that I'd be doing what I was doing.
21:55
I never planned to do it. Wow, that is insane.
21:59
And you know what? I'm actually, I feel like so
22:01
proud of you because there are so many people that go viral on
22:05
TikTok and make a career out of like being an influencer for no
22:11
reason or like for really, really stupid reasons and
22:14
phrases that they might have said that's gone viral.
22:17
And you actually went viral really quickly like those
22:20
people. But actually for a really good
22:22
reason to raise awareness and to answer questions that people are
22:25
just genuinely curious about because there's clearly not
22:29
enough out there about blindness and about invisible
22:32
disabilities. So you were clearly needed in
22:35
that influence the industry. So I'm so glad that you rose to
22:39
fame basically on TikTok. Yeah, and I appreciate it.
22:42
Like people, you know, people who don't necessarily like me,
22:46
I've had arguments with will be like, oh, you don't even do a
22:48
proper job, get a proper job. And the job I'd be doing would
22:52
be 1 to one psychological support for people.
22:55
And what I've found is actually I've been able to reach
22:59
infinitely more people and help infinitely more people than I
23:01
ever would have if I was doing, you know, a proper job, you
23:06
know, And yeah, I'm, I'm very proud of the platform that I've
23:09
built and proud of the content that I've made and, and the
23:12
people that I've reached. And hopefully it never stops.
23:15
But yeah, it does, it does frustrate me when you see, for
23:18
example, the the Hawk tour girl who now was like podcast
23:21
unbelievable brand deals because she said something silly on the
23:23
street. And actually there's no
23:25
substance to it. Like it's not.
23:27
And I think this is another thing.
23:28
You don't have to change the world.
23:29
You don't if you're if you're disabled, you don't have to be a
23:31
disability advocate if you're, you know, part of the LGBT
23:34
community, you don't have to be an advocate for that.
23:36
You can just live your life, be a personality.
23:38
That's absolutely fine. But it does frustrate me when
23:40
someone does something minimal and gets maximum rewards from
23:44
it. Right, I I had the hog to a girl
23:47
in mind when I said that just crazy that she now has like a
23:51
career and the podcast and ever knows who she is for literally
23:55
nothing. And it just, you know, like
23:59
people work really hard to start podcasts and to maybe build an
24:03
online presence, but, you know, they're not going to go very
24:07
far. But no, you know, now you know,
24:09
you just need to get go viral for something really stupid.
24:13
Yeah, just yeah. Say something vulgar on the
24:15
street when you're drunk. Literally that would scar me for
24:18
life, not give me a career. It would actually scar me.
24:22
I'd love. To I'd actually love to ask her
24:24
how she feels about being known for something like that.
24:27
Because yeah, like you're saying, like I'm I'm known for
24:30
being blind. I'm happy with that.
24:31
I would not want to be known for screaming Hoktur in a month.
24:35
Absolutely not, but like I it looks like she's proud of it,
24:38
like her dad wears a cap with Hoktur on it.
24:42
Like my parents would disown me. But there we go.
24:47
Here we are, still still grinding.
24:50
We'll keep going. Yeah, we'll keep going.
24:53
So tell me a bit about the content you make, because I
24:55
think that's how I found you, I think on Instagram.
24:58
And your content is very much the kind of stuff I want to see
25:02
about disabled people in the industry.
25:04
I don't like sob stories. I don't like, you know,
25:07
inspirational videos and all the comments.
25:10
Like you're such an inspiration. I like being real.
25:12
I like people smashing common misconceptions.
25:16
You know, I like comedy. I like making fun of your
25:19
disability. So tell me a bit about that.
25:22
I think the first thing to say is like, I'm just an average
25:25
person, and most disabled people are just average people.
25:31
We're not superheroes and we're not, like you say, sob stories.
25:37
The content I make reflects that, I think, and it just
25:40
reflects the daily life of what being blind and disabled is.
25:44
So some of it can be story times about experiences.
25:46
I've had them, Some of them can be funny.
25:48
Some of them can be more for awareness based.
25:50
There's educational videos where I'm answering questions or
25:52
there's videos where I'm just outright taking the piss out of
25:55
myself. And yeah, I think that's why
25:59
I've built a following. It's because I am just myself on
26:02
camera. I'm not trying to make people
26:05
feel sorry for me. I'm not trying to prove that I'm
26:08
this incredible human being. I'm just like the lad next door
26:12
who happens to be blind and people have resonated with that,
26:14
I think. That's just so refreshing
26:17
because I know a lot of content online can be filtered and you
26:21
know, people can be as fake as they want on there.
26:24
But yeah, I think something that people can relate to is that you
26:27
are literally just just the average guy.
26:29
But that's, but you do have a lot, you know, some really good
26:33
humour. So you have to give yourself
26:34
some credit for that. Yeah, I do try.
26:36
I mean, disability humour is one of the best out there.
26:40
And to be fair, the best way to have an open conversation with
26:44
someone or to make someone open to having a conversation about
26:47
an important topic is by making them laugh is how I found that.
26:50
So if I can make people giggle and want to watch more and make
26:54
them open to listening and then feed them some educational
26:57
content, I found that that makes the world of difference.
27:00
And also, it's just fun to laugh.
27:02
Like, I don't want my page just to be, oh, I'm blind.
27:05
How do I make a cup of coffee? I'm blind.
27:07
How do I open a packet of crisps?
27:09
Like, you know, I want people to look at me as a bit of a clown
27:12
because I'm a bit of a clown. Yeah, exactly.
27:15
And I have to give your partner some credit as well.
27:18
She's really funny and she makes some appearances on your page as
27:21
well. And I like that you kind of roll
27:23
reverse as well. Like you make her do some things
27:26
blindfolded. That's hilarious to watch as.
27:28
Well, yeah, she, she's brilliant and we work together on the
27:31
content. Anything that we earn from
27:34
social media or like anything I do outside of it as a result of
27:37
social media, you know, we split and we're very much a team.
27:41
And yeah, I'm very, very lucky because she's not just hopped on
27:45
board with what we're doing with the media stuff, but in terms of
27:48
me as a disabled person, she's never even battered an eyelid
27:51
about like how we need to live to make things work.
27:55
So yeah, she's, she's an Angel. That's amazing.
27:58
And I'm so like, happy for you because yeah, you do get those
28:02
people that only see you for your disability, but the best
28:05
kind of relationship to be in is someone that doesn't even
28:07
consider that as a factor. That's what I've found now
28:10
actually, is the biggest part of awareness I'm trying to spread.
28:12
I feel like I've done a lot on like access and employment and
28:19
telling my story and how we can change this society.
28:22
I've done a lot about that. The one thing now that I'd like
28:25
to really, really try and hammer home is don't take people with
28:30
disabilities off your menu for dating.
28:32
You know, explore all your options.
28:34
Don't just shut people down. And that doesn't just go for
28:36
disability. That goes for any one minority,
28:39
but to any life situation, just always keep your options open
28:43
because I always say like a person that you wouldn't like
28:46
look twice at because they're in a certain situation might be the
28:49
person who's absolutely right for you.
28:51
So yeah, that's probably my main goal at the minute is that
28:55
message. That's very, very important
28:58
message because I've also seen other people with disabilities
29:02
saying that when they were dating, they used to, you know,
29:06
never even factor disabled people into their radar because
29:09
they were like, well, I've got a disability so I can't.
29:12
But then, you know, they find the love of their life and
29:15
they're also, you know, disabled as well, which is just nice to
29:19
share. And it's nice to see that, you
29:20
know, you can coexist with someone who's got disability
29:24
even if you're disabled, if you're not disabled.
29:28
Yeah, they're not, you know, different, a different breed
29:30
that you kind of have to look after, like a pet or something.
29:33
Like they're literally just another human being that want
29:35
love as well. Yeah, and it would take some
29:38
adaptations and and some learning.
29:40
And most people I think are actually willing to do that.
29:43
They just don't know it. And it's, it's a lot easier
29:46
living with someone with a disability than you'd think.
29:49
It's not a complete lifestyle change there.
29:51
Of course, there are some disabilities that are more
29:53
severe and there's more adaptations and more things to
29:56
consider. But, you know, across the
29:59
general range of people with disabilities, you know, it's
30:02
just an additional part of our lives that we don't, you know,
30:06
we, it's not like we're sat there thinking about it all the
30:09
time. So there's no reason why you
30:10
should have to as well. Exactly.
30:12
Exactly. I want to move on to talk about
30:15
your football experiences. Obviously you're quite big on
30:17
sports, you're a big football fan and you're a player for
30:20
England. How long have you been playing
30:22
football and what's it been like for you?
30:24
So I've only been playing blind football now for about 2 1/2
30:27
years and I've actually been injured for about half of that
30:30
time. So I've probably been playing
30:31
about a year and a half. I I always loved football
30:36
growing up, you know, I was quite good at football as well.
30:39
So when I stopped playing because of my silos, I was
30:42
guided. And actually that was one of the
30:43
things I had to grieve for most. And then, yeah, I didn't play
30:46
football for a good 7-8 years. Randomly.
30:50
One of the England players in the blind squad lived about 20
30:53
minutes down the road from me, saw my social media stuff, was
30:56
like come and give it a go. And I did.
30:59
And I was terrible, like really, really bad because it's such a
31:02
hard sport to play. And I just kept going back, I
31:06
think for the love of football and gradually improved and yeah,
31:10
got pushed through the pathways for like talent development and
31:14
all of that kind of stuff. And now, yeah, I sit in the sit
31:16
in the senior squad at the minute, although I am actually
31:18
taking a slight step back just because the schedule is so, so
31:22
hectic and my current like position on where I am with my
31:26
own schedule doesn't quite align with it.
31:27
So taking a step back slightly from being a full time senior
31:30
player, but I still get all the kind of perks that in England
31:33
and I would. That's great.
31:35
Yeah. And all the perks with no no
31:36
work. I still have to train, I
31:41
promise. I swear.
31:41
If my coach is wondering where I am training, we are going to
31:45
America in just over a week now, I think.
31:49
Yeah, early November. So we're off to San Diego for
31:52
about 12 days and then at the end of November we're off to
31:56
Greece as well, so I'm always travelling.
31:58
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, you seem to be everywhere,
32:00
but I love that for you. That's so exciting.
32:03
You also love darts as well. I can see you've got darts
32:06
board. I do as well.
32:08
It's it's got shutters on right now.
32:10
But my boyfriend loves darts and he's actually got me into it by
32:14
installing a dartboard in our home so.
32:17
Has to be done. I love my people.
32:19
You know, when I say I like darts, they're kind of I can
32:21
imagine their face being a bit slack, George, like eyes wide,
32:24
like what do you mean? But no, I love my darts.
32:26
I love watching it. I love playing it.
32:28
It's a really social thing. It's a sport, but you like you
32:30
can play without, like physically exerting yourself too
32:33
much as well, which is nice. And if you feel a dart board,
32:35
it's completely tactile and I can figure out what scores I've
32:39
got and what I need just based on feeling it, which is actually
32:42
amazing when you think about it. I love my darts.
32:45
It's probably my don't tell my coaches.
32:48
It's probably my favourite sport.
32:50
Hey, I won't tell anyone, don't worry.
32:53
I am going to put myself in the shoes of someone who's very
32:56
ignorant and doesn't know anything about invisible
33:00
disabilities or blindness just because I know that you do a lot
33:03
of these kind of videos on social media.
33:05
But tell us how you play football or how you play darts
33:08
as a blind man. Yeah, so blind football at his
33:12
core is just football. You know, it's lads kicking a
33:15
ball about, not just lads, anybody kicking a ball about and
33:19
trying to score a goal. It's a, it's a 5A side game.
33:22
You've got a sighted goalkeeper and four outfield blind players.
33:27
The ball's got ball barons inside of it, which rattle,
33:29
which is how we can like locate it.
33:31
There are boards that run down the side of a pitch, which one
33:34
keep a ball in play. So it's not like constant throw
33:36
insurance and stuff. And 2, the sound echoes off the
33:41
boards and you can kind of identify where you're on the
33:45
pitch based on the echo. And then for scoring goals and
33:48
stuff like that, you've got a coach behind the goal who will
33:51
guide you in and give you information about where the
33:53
space is and how many defenders you have to beat and you know
33:56
where the best place to dribble is.
33:59
And you'd think based on like how I describe it, you'd think
34:02
it's quite a slow sport and not very technical.
34:05
But the pace of it's ridiculous. The, the speed that we go at is,
34:10
you know, crazy. And there's, yeah, the most
34:13
physical sport I've ever played as well.
34:14
It's more like rugby in that sense.
34:16
Lots of collisions, lots of, you know, big tackles and stuff.
34:21
So yeah, great, great sport. And if you ever get the chance
34:23
to watch it, then go for it. Darts isn't necessarily a blind
34:26
sport, it's just kind of something that I've learnt how
34:28
to do. There's no like Blind dart
34:31
federation or I'm going to try and get one going, but I just
34:34
feel the dartboard where it is like orientate myself, I guess.
34:38
But I stand about 6 feet away instead of eight feet away and
34:42
yeah, follow where, where I've just kind of put my hand to try
34:46
and score. So yeah, it's, it's nothing,
34:49
nothing crazy. And it's literally is.
34:51
There's not really any adaptation to it other than
34:52
standing a little bit closer. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
34:55
But blind football sounds so intense and it sounds so
34:58
difficult, so can't imagine, you know, how long it must have
35:02
taken to get training. And you've already been playing
35:05
mainstream football. So to have to adapt to blind
35:08
football I'm sure must have been so, so difficult so.
35:11
But that sounds like such a cool sport.
35:15
Yeah, it is, like I said, what you've just said, it's really
35:18
intense. It's you have to be so
35:20
technically astute with what you're doing.
35:22
You have to be good with your communication.
35:24
It's mentally so, so draining. Like I come off the pitch with a
35:28
headache sometimes because you're thinking and listening so
35:30
much. So yeah, it's the ultimate sport
35:33
really, where you've got to be physically, technically amazing,
35:35
but also like have quite a high sport in IQ to be able to be
35:39
good at it. Yeah, and I guess you have to
35:41
rely a lot on your other senses like hearing I'm sure is like
35:44
one of the main things that helps you through it.
35:47
Yeah, well, you've got to obviously listen to the ball,
35:50
listen to your guides, so your goalkeeper and the guide behind
35:53
the goal, your teammates listen to where the opposition are to
35:56
obviously not get tackled or just pass the ball straight to
35:59
them. I mean, obviously you've got to
36:01
be thinking mentally about what you're doing technically.
36:03
Like it's not second nature to dribble without seeing like we
36:07
rely so much on sight. So when you take that away like
36:11
the the cognitive element to it is massive.
36:14
Wow, that sounds so interesting. I'm actually learning so much
36:17
here and it's, yeah, really cool and definitely going to have to
36:21
give it a watch now because now that I kind of understand the
36:24
logistics of it, I'm really keen to give that a watch and just
36:29
like see how it all pans out. That's so interesting.
36:32
We're on obviously in 2024 and Channel 4 had all the live
36:35
streams of all of the sports. So I think if you go on YouTube,
36:38
you can watch a lot of the Paralympic Games, which is
36:39
obviously the the highest level of blind football that you can
36:42
watch. So yeah, definitely worth a.
36:44
Worth a Do you think? Do you think you'd ever enter
36:46
yourself into the Paralympics? Well, I could have been there
36:50
this year if we'd qualified, but unfortunately our rank in the
36:53
world wasn't quite high enough. So Next up we've got 2028, which
36:59
is in LA, which is better than Paris anyway, let's be real.
37:03
So, yeah, we're, we're obviously aiming for that.
37:05
We've got the EUR and the the World Cup before then, so
37:08
they're obviously going to be our testers at where we are as a
37:11
team. Yeah, always, always aiming for
37:14
the Paralympics. Wow, that's so exciting Well,
37:16
you've got quite a busy few years ahead of you.
37:18
Don't is it stressing you out just thinking about it I.
37:23
Just want to go to bed. Please let me go to bed.
37:29
Oh dear. Do you find it a bit
37:31
overwhelming? Like the life that you're
37:33
suddenly into, you know, always having to travel and to, you
37:39
know, do all these different things.
37:40
You know, obviously, this is your main job now.
37:43
Do you find it overwhelming sometimes?
37:45
Yeah, yeah, you can do like there's weeks like this week
37:49
where I've been in London on Monday for podcasting and and
37:52
working that took all day about two hours travel there and back
37:56
as well. Yesterday I was in kind of like
37:59
the Surrey, East Sussex area on a podcast and that took hours
38:03
and that was travelling as well. Today obviously this is easier
38:06
because I'm at home, but I'm still 1, having to be
38:09
charismatic and two, talking articulately about quite a
38:12
sensitive topic. So that's quite training
38:14
sometimes. And then I'm off to London for
38:15
the rest of the day and then tomorrow is a training day and
38:18
then Friday I'm off to England camp for the weekend, which is
38:21
in Derby, so about a 5 hour train journey.
38:24
So yeah, these weeks get really, really tiring, so I try and
38:28
limit them as much as possible, but sometimes you can't avoid
38:30
it. Sometimes you know, it's better
38:33
to just cram it all into one week and then just have like a
38:36
week off or something. Yeah, I'll be on Sunday, the
38:39
Premier League's on and Chelsea are playing and then there's a
38:42
big game. It's Arsenal, Arsenal,
38:43
Liverpool, yeah, later on. So I'll let myself have a few
38:46
beers and just sit on my sofa all day, I think.
38:48
I think, I think you deserve that.
38:51
I might not even get dressed. I might just sit around a box.
38:54
Please don't. Just Yeah, Minimal, minimal
38:59
effort, please. Yeah, that sounds like an
39:01
intense week, but you're welcome for not having to travel all the
39:04
way to Cardiff. I wouldn't have forced you to do
39:06
that. Do you know what I was gonna say
39:08
to you? Because I do go over to Hereford
39:11
a fair bit for some training and fixtures because they've got the
39:14
blind college over there, they've got good sport
39:16
facilities and I go into Newport a lot of the time.
39:19
I think we spoke about was before.
39:20
So I was going to say to you, if you ever want me to come and do
39:22
it in person, we could coordinate it like that.
39:24
And then I did have a thought. I was like, I can't keep doing
39:27
this. Tobes, you've got, you've got to
39:28
stop. That would that would be the
39:31
people pleaser and me being like, if you want that, like I'm
39:34
happy to do that, even though even if it puts me through hell
39:38
and back like I will, I will do that for you because I'm a
39:40
people pleaser. But I'm glad you didn't say that
39:42
because then that's one good thing about doing this podcast.
39:47
I can interview people from all around the world, from my own
39:51
home, so don't worry about that at all.
39:54
I've done you a favour. Actually.
39:56
Let's. Be you actually have your house?
39:58
Yeah, you're keeping me in and I'm keeping you in for now until
40:02
you have to move off to London again.
40:05
Does does Nat go everywhere with you?
40:08
No, no. So we've got a little little
40:11
Cocker collie Lila who obviously needs looking after.
40:13
We don't have like a a regular dog sitter, so Nat will quite
40:17
often stay at home and I'll go and meet my manager if it's
40:21
something that needs quite like a professional outlook like AI
40:23
don't know, like a filming day with a brand or something.
40:27
But a lot of the time I will just go by myself and meet
40:30
whoever I'm needing to meet, you know, wherever I need to meet
40:33
them. So yeah, this is actually
40:36
boosted my independence so, so much because I'm self-employed.
40:39
No one else is going to do it for me.
40:42
You know, I've gone all around the UK by myself, you know,
40:45
staying in hotels, meeting people, travelling, doing my
40:48
job, earning money and supporting myself.
40:50
And if you told me about five years ago, you know I wouldn't
40:54
have believed you. The growth is insane.
40:57
Well done. Thank you.
40:59
So much, and you're also maybe smashing the stereotype that
41:04
blind people can't be independent as well.
41:07
Yeah, and I, when I was younger and lose myself, I believe that
41:11
stereotype. And I thought I was just
41:13
destined to be looked after for the rest of my life.
41:15
So it is nice to not only yet exemplify to other people that
41:19
blind people can be independent. But even for myself, it's
41:22
almost, you know, proving myself wrong.
41:24
And, you know, I do sit back sometimes and I'm really proud
41:27
about where I've gotten to. I'm not.
41:28
I don't give myself much credit at all.
41:30
You know, I'm quite a stern person.
41:31
I'm always looking to improve and you know, bit hard on myself
41:35
when I make a mistake, but when you do take a step back
41:37
objectively, like it is kind of crazy where I'm at now.
41:41
Yeah, you should be really, really proud of yourself.
41:43
Like, one could easily just hide and not want to leave their
41:48
room, not want to leave their house and just protect
41:51
themselves. But you're really putting
41:53
yourself out there. But only great things are coming
41:55
from that. So yeah.
41:58
OK, So what's next for Blind Tobes?
42:01
What does the future hold? I need my own TV show.
42:04
That's what I need. You do, I think I.
42:07
Love my own TV show personally. Yes, if Hawk to a girl can get a
42:12
podcast, Blind toes can get ATV show.
42:16
I'd love it. I love, I love talking to
42:18
people. I'd love to do my own podcast
42:20
where because I talk about myself a lot and I can do that.
42:23
That's fine. I do love myself a little bit
42:25
too much but I'd love to talk to other people and get to know
42:29
other people's stories and have a platform where I can share
42:32
that. What I'd love, and I'm trying to
42:34
get this pitched at the minute, is doing a series, whether
42:38
that's with BBC, Channel 4, ITV, whatever, on disability sports
42:43
where I go and just try loads of different sports and make myself
42:46
look like an idiot but also showcase how good disability
42:49
sport can be. So that's what I'd love to do.
42:52
That would be so good. And if that could be out in time
42:56
for the next Olympics and Paralympics, I feel like that
42:58
would maybe get people to want to watch the Paralympics more.
43:02
Yeah. I don't know.
43:04
Just like showcasing it. That's such a good idea.
43:07
Well, I'm rooting for you. I'll be the first listener.
43:10
I'll be the first watcher. You're an Angel.
43:13
You're. An Angel.
43:14
Keep doing what we're doing. Keep, yeah.
43:16
Keep trying to grow gradually, whether that's continuing to
43:20
spread the message or just continuing to support myself and
43:23
be consistent as an adult, you know?
43:26
Yeah, I don't have any crazy, crazy goals for the next year or
43:29
so. Well, you have already got so
43:32
much on your plate, so please don't push yourself too much.
43:35
That's something I tend to do a lot.
43:37
Like I just say yes to everything and then realise that
43:39
actually I can't conquer the world.
43:42
That's something I'm trying to work on.
43:44
No, just like conquering bit by bit, that's what we.
43:47
Need. Yeah, exactly.
43:48
And like you, I love meeting other people, so any opportunity
43:51
I get to do something, I'm like, yeah, absolutely.
43:54
But then sometimes you know, you do need to look after yourself
43:56
and take a bit of a break. But.
43:59
Probably my goal for the next year is to actually acknowledge
44:03
when I need to take a little step back and say, all right,
44:05
mate, just go and have a bath. Go and have a bath.
44:07
Yeah, go and have a beer in a bath.
44:09
That sounds perfect. Or just yeah, have a day where
44:15
you just watch football all day and nothing else.
44:19
Sounds like a dream. I'm going to do it this Sunday.
44:22
That's the thing. I just need to get through these
44:23
next 4 days and then Sunday I'm not doing anything.
44:26
I'm so excited for you to finish off the podcast.
44:31
I would like to ask a question that I ask all my interviewees,
44:35
which is is there a piece of advice you would give to your
44:38
younger self, maybe going through the beginning of those
44:41
changes or maybe someone else that's in your position?
44:46
I would probably say don't try and force yourself to be happy.
44:51
Like embrace the emotions that you've got.
44:54
If we're talking to someone who's got a disability or just
44:58
a, a life experience that's, you know, really grinding on them.
45:01
Embrace the emotions that you've got and try and figure out an
45:04
action plan to where you can make yourself happy and to where
45:07
that's sustainable and where you're comfortable.
45:09
But you don't have to be an A star person all the time.
45:13
I like that, yeah. Just keep it real and don't
45:16
pretend for anyone. Yeah, exactly.
45:18
I don't. Really like that?
45:20
Yeah. I feel like we could keep
45:21
talking for hours, but I should probably wrap this up.
45:25
Honestly, like, like I can natter and natter all day long.
45:28
And actually what you do with podcasts is I've I've been the
45:31
same as you get a set of questions through and you're
45:33
like, OK, we're going to talk through this and this and it
45:35
goes down avenues you don't know.
45:36
And actually the content is so, so valuable.
45:39
And I'm sure that this conversation will resonate and
45:41
hopefully help a lot of people who are potentially struggling
45:44
or just a bit unsure of themselves.
45:46
Definitely. Maybe in the future we'll do a
45:48
Part 2 in person, but when we're both actually at a normal place
45:53
in our lives, I don't know if that will ever be a thing.
45:57
No, that sounds good to me. I'll just make sure that I'm
46:01
going over to Cardiff. I don't think I'm coming over to
46:03
Wales just for it. I mean, if you're going to make
46:06
your way to Newport, you may as well go somewhere nice, you know
46:09
what I mean? Get.
46:10
Me out of Newport as soon as possible.
46:14
Well, thank you so much Toby for taking your time before your
46:17
busy week to come on to Unbalanced.
46:20
I really, really enjoyed our chat today.
46:24
Thank you so much to you guys for listening as well.
46:26
Don't forget to give Unbalanced a follow and a five star review.
46:30
Thank you so much to cure LGMD 2 I for sponsoring this podcast.
46:34
I will be back with you very soon in another couple weeks
46:37
with another episode, but until then, bye bye guys.