Latest / Drawn of History / Louis C.K. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _611(M4A_128K)

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Louis C.K. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _611(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is one of the greats. There's nobody like him.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: He's a comedian. He's a filmmaker. And now he's a novelist.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This is his new book, Ingram. And I've read it.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: And it's great. It's like this Huck Finn, like an
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: emotional kind of Huck Finn. You'll love it. I guarantee that.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful to spend time with him today. He's one
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of my dear friends. And I think he has a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: lot to offer the world. So I feel lucky to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: ride on this planet at the same time as him.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is Mr. Louis C.K. Yeah, man, I'm excited
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: to see you guys perform tonight.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: The Ryman's a beautiful place.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel uncomfortable ever saying certain things in
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: such a beautiful venue? And not you particularly, but also
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: definitely you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The Ryman feels like,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, Harry Houdini was there.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: And so was Martin Luther King. And so was Johnny
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Cash and Elvis. A pretty good balance of perverts and.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Wizards.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Perverts and wizards.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I think, so I feel okay.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: About talking about bad stuff that you shouldn't talk about.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: There's places like a symphony space, you know, when you
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: do like one of those. Ooh. Where it's like really
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: hallowed and there's like, you know.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: There should be a guy in a tuxedo playing a cello.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there should be like a maitre d' of instruments
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: or whatever that guy's called. What's it? Yeah.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: The maitre d' of instruments. Like a conductor?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: The leader, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: When you have those guys and then I'm on there
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm talking about the hair on the tip of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: my cock.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. But then again, I sold the tickets. It's
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: just a bunch of seats.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it is, though, you get into something, you're like, oh,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: this isn't it. Or I had to do a church once.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: This man invited me. and I don't want to say
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: he was a pervert or whatever, or I don't want
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to say, I don't want to say he was, he
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: seemed like somebody who's willing to touch somebody that was
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: probably young.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: He's willing to touch somebody who's maybe probably young. Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: That's borderline. Okay. So he's willing.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Right. He was willing to, I'm not going to say
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: he was. Right.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: If somebody was like, Hey, this kid, this kid is bleeding.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Anybody, we all feel kind of weird about, Applying pressure,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: he'd be like, I'm willing.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: kind of guy. Like an EMT for small cucks, you know?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Shot his hand up a little too quick on that question.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just would. Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Like having a couple small tourniquets in his pocket, you know?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: He's equipped. He's equipped.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so that guy invited me to do a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: show and it was in like Laughlin, Nevada or something
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: out in the middle of the desert. And it was
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: at a church and he was a church man. And
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: he was like a pastor, a leader of a church.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: We get there and I was like, oh man, this
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: guy had only seen one of my bits and it
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: was a, Just more of a safe bed. It just
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: had nothing edgy in it. Right. And I got into
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: the stuff, and you could see a man get up
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: with his family and just, I mean, he was leaving
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the show. He was leaving the church, though, too. You
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: could see.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, no.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I felt horrible. And I kept looking at him in
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the back, and he's trying to be supportive. And I
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: was like, don't support me. I was like, this shouldn't
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: be happening, you know?
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: And you felt that way?
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I did. Like you shouldn't have been doing it? Yeah,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: but I couldn't just, all I had was my material.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I could do some riffing. But it's also in a church.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: The lights were all on. But yeah, some venues, it's
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: just a little.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I used to be more defiant. I
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: used to feel more like, you know, hey, man, this
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: is what I, you know.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Fuck you. But I feel less that way. I'm not
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: going to change what I do.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: But I don't want to upset anybody. I'm not trying to.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I'm not as defiant. I'm not as like,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: we'll show them. Yeah.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I was talking about something on stage recently and somebody
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: in the, in the balcony yell, ah, got angry.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And I said, what's wrong?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And this person, I don't remember what the bit was,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: but they were like, that's not cool, man. And I said,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: are you, are you offended by what I said? He said, yeah.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And I just said, I'm really sorry. Like I had
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: never done that before. I was just like, I'm really sorry.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Anyway, and I'm going to keep doing it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We got to keep going.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You got to keep going. Yeah.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Um, I did a club in Florida down in, um, um,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Key West.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: And it's a good, I love the guy who runs it,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: this guy, Tom, and it's a fun club, but a
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: lot of the crowd is like people that are on
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: a cruise and they jump off and they had no
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: context for what I was like getting pure silence on
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: some stuff. And at some point I just said, listen, um, I, uh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I just want you to know, I'm not trying to
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: upset you. Oh yeah. I'm just wanting you to know
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: that this is all, I don't have another way to go.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: This isn't me antagonizing you. This is just, you and
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I are very different.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: And if you could try to open your heart a
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: little bit, I can't, I'm opening up to you, but
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I can't like invent jokes for you right now.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: And I, and they are like, okay, okay. And I
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: could see these sort of old people in pink, pink
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: and coral blue shirts going, all right, we'll try a
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: little harder.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Because at first they just thought, well, he's just, you know,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: sometimes if somebody's upsetting you, you think they want to.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's just that they're just being what they are.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And if you can know that, I think it helps.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, even as you're saying that, it makes me think, like,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: even when I was a kid, if my mom would
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: have every now and then, like, I know I bring
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: back things to childhood all the time. Yeah. But it's like,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: or if a parent would every now and be like, hey,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I know this is not good.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I know this sucks for you. Right.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And I know this, everything we're doing here is really,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: it's a Barnum and Bailey. Yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: It's a real shit circus. I've tried to say that
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: to my, but that's all we got. Right.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And like, I used to think that about my kids
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: when I would say no about something. Cause when I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: was a kid, no was mean. It was always like, no.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: And like, no, because I said, so stuff like that
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: and no, cause you don't deserve it or whatever. And
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think no has to be a bad thing.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I think every, the life is full of yes and no. Right.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And the first few years of a kid's life are just, yes,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: you're just trying to keep them alive and just let
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: them know they're loved. And then you have to start going,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: not that though. And it's tragic for them. Like what
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the person I love is saying no, why would they
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: do that? And because you feel guilty about saying no
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: to your kid, you put a little spice on it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: But you can be nice about it as long as
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: you're firm.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Like you don't roll over because you just go, no,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, honey. Yeah, that's, I know how much that sucks.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But it's not changing.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: You just can't do it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: And think of something else, but it ain't. That's a wall.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: That's a brick wall.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And you'll be okay. Also let them know you'll be okay.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: And then they'll know that no is just a turn.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: It's not a wall. It's just a curve. That's all.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Go look for something else.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's a great way to think about it, too,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: because then it keeps you in a space of like, well,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: what else could I, what's possible? How else would I
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: figure this out? You know, it almost puts a little
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: challenge into the child. That's it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: And also for when my kids would complain about, and
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: if they just harangued and said, come on, I just, no,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to discuss it. But if they're like, wait,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: and they reason and they try to lawyer through it,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I go, I'm here. I'm listening.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: You know, that I'll listen to. That's a good skill
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: for them to build, you know? Yeah.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I remember at night, if we got, if we got
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: in trouble, like if we got suspended from watching television
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: or something, my mom, we could go down and do
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a performance, right? Yeah. And we didn't have a lot
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of like we had a little bit of face paint.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say it was like it would
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: seem racial, but some of the shit probably we didn't
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: have a lot of colors.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: OK. What colors did you have?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Black, red and yellow. We had some. Yeah. No, we
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: just didn't have a lot of colors. Right. And we didn't.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: And we loved a lot of black stuff. So I
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: think we probably did In the Heat of the Night
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: or something. We would do scenes from that, you know?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: That's happy, yeah. They call me Mr.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Tibbs. Yeah.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: In the heat of the night. God, dude, we loved
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: that show. I love Carol O'Connor. He was so, God,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: he was so multifaceted.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Well, did you ever see the movie? The movie's amazing.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: In the Heat of the Night? Yeah, I have. With
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Sidney Poitier?
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Rod Steiger.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that the other guy in it? A Raisin
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: in the Sun, man. Sidney Poitier was something great, huh?
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. And what do you call it? Also, um, um,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: to serve with love.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: He plays a British teacher teaching. He's a, um, a
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: well-educated black teacher teaching Cockney white kids how to be
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: gentlemen and ladies.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, that sounds good.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've seen scenes from this though, just online and stuff. Um,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: But yes, but if we went down and performed and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: we would also had, I think we had a kite
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: that we would kind of do this Japanese dragon kind
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of thing. So we had a couple of like kind
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: of motifs that we would use to win back the
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: ability to do something new. But that was a way
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of us like at least show up and show me something, right? Yeah.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Don't just sit there and watch. Put on a kabuki. Right. And, like, have, like,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: an allegorical play. Yeah.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: That says, let us have the, you know, let us
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: eat the Captain Crunch for dinner.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, let us have this chance. That's all we wanted. Yeah.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it would be not.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you had to sing Mammy to get it. You
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: had to.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Swing low. Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: It got.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, there were times, yeah.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I wanted to emulate black people when I was a kid.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: When I was a kid, all my heroes were black.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali was like the greatest thing in the world
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Bruce Lee.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, everybody who I admired, Bruce Lee was black, right?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Bruce Lee? No, Bruce Lee was the Asian. But, dude,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: black guys were like, yeah, that's a real one.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Reggie Jackson. I mean, I grew up a different generation
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: than you.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, but those are still some real heroes.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something about being black that just seemed...
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I went to... Fun and risque at the same time. Yeah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't... Well, at my school, I went to
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: public school in Newton, Mass., and there was a program
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: called METCO where kids from inner city Boston were brought
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: in buses to our schools.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And so there was a contingency of... not the kids
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that were not only black, but living in, in a
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: very different place. And, um, so they would sit at,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: there'd be tables at the cafeteria of just black kids
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: and I would just go sit with them. I just wanted,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be part of that.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And I would sit with them and they'd kind of go,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: all right, Hey fellas. And, uh, I just, I, I
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: felt like I just re was reaching for that, you know?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Hmm. But you think it was because, cause I would,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I definitely noticed that too. I like being around black kids.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: It was fun. It was interesting. You didn't know what
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was going to happen. Yeah. There was an element of
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: like kind of crossing the tracks a bit. Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Because where I grew up in Newton, I mean, I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: lived in Mexico when I was younger, but I mostly
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: grew up in Newton and it was a suburb that
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: was already split because there was a working class side
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: and a, and a rich people's side. And, um, I
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: grew up right on the, literally on the tracks, like the, the,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the train tracks, the mass turnpike was a block behind
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: my house, like one block. I heard, I fell asleep
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: to the sound of, of traffic. And so we were
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: right on the line, my family, we had a little house,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: a little half a house that we rented. Um, but, uh,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: it was, that was all white though. Um, everybody was
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: white in Newton. Later I drove a cab at Newton
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: in my hometown and found out that there was a,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: a little enclave of black people that lived in one little,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: like one street in Newton. But in Boston itself too,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the main city was very segregated. So there was this
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: one kid in our, one Medco kid, his name was David,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: and his family's house burnt down in Boston. And my
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: friend's dad had half a house that he rented out.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And he donated it to their family so they could
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: have a place to live while they were rebuilding.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: So this black family moved into our neighborhood. And they
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: were nice people. I didn't think of it. I knew David.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: He was an okay kid. He was kind of a dick.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: But he let anybody be a dick. But there was
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: But he was a black dick. He was a black
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: jacket and he had one. But no, no, no. But yeah,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: that's exciting.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: At the time I wasn't aware of that. But there
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: was a kid in our school who was a really
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: vicious bully and he had a gang. And one day
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: David went to the park, Cabot Park, and Michael was
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: the bully. I'm using real names. I don't know.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe you should bleep them.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: If he did it, he did it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: But Michael. Michael. I'll call him out. His gang and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: they took. David, and they said, uh, we're going to
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: show you this swing is your swing. And it was paint.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: They painted a swing black and they painted a bench
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: black and they painted a one of everything in the park.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And they said, that's your, that's the swing. That's the bench.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And I heard that story and I, I found it
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: hard to believe, but I went to the park and those,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: there was a black bench and it was black as
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: long as the rain, you know, until the rain washed
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: off the paint and the park painted a green over.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that's what it was like. And this was like a,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: kind of like a liberal suburb, you know?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And do you think a lot of that was actual,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: like true racism? Or do you think some of it
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: was just like, I know you're not playing as a racist,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: but I think sometimes people, if that's what's going on,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: people will continue it, you know?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. But I think if you actually
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: go get a bucket of paint, if you actually go
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: put your money down as a kid and you paint
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a bench black, I think that's pretty racist. I think
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: it's pretty, Hardcore racist.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was nasty. I mean, he was mean to everybody.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: He found a way to hurt. He was a sadistic person. Yeah,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: scared the shit out of me. Never hurt me because
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I was a little bigger. But I never fought, really, so. But, yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: that was weird. There was racism in Newton. It was
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: weird because it was like... Oh, yeah, I've been a
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: boss in this still. Well, and also because there was
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that division.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Like, down where you were there.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Folks were a little more mixed in, weren't they, a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: little bit? Did you live amongst?
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just funny. In the South, people
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: will be like, it's so racist. A lot of times
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: people have this view. But also, you have a relationship.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of connectivity, I feel like. So I
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: don't know. I remember one time me and my buddy Devin,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: we went fishing, and there was these kids on these
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: railroad tracks up above us, up above the river. And
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: they started throwing rocks at us and calling us the
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: N-word and stuff.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: White kids?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Calling you guys that? Yeah.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't black. I was, you know.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: At the time?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be part of it. It wasn't one
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: of the black periods of your life? Yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I was like. But I still was like, you don't
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: know us, motherfucker. You know, I was like yelling shit back.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And even Devin's looking at me like, dude, what the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: fuck is this? Yeah. Yeah. They'll try to steal my
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: thunder here. No. So it was just like, I don't know.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: All that stuff was just like, I don't know. I
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: do think kids throw everything around. Kids just say stuff. Oh,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Because they want to try it on.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, I don't trust people that will say, like,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I think if somebody won't say, some people won't say
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: f * * *, right? Or they won't say the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: F word about gay folks. And you know what it is.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Gay Fs.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Gay Fs.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Gay Fs, yeah.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Not gay folks. You mean the folks is the F word, right?
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: No. I'm saying. Yeah. Some people won't say, and I'll
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: say it really fast because some people don't like hearing it.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: F * * * it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: That got right by the people that don't.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: They weren't. They were doing something else.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Well, some of them, yeah. It's like you could have
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: looked away. You could have been driving and looking out
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of the street.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Before you know it, it's gone. But some people will
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: say the N word but won't say that word. That's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: what I don't get.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: It's like. Yeah.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: How do you even get?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: That you won't say the N word, but you will
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: say the F word or that you won't say, which way?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Some people won't say, won't say the F word. Yeah.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But they'll say the N word. Really?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Who's that? What group is that?
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That to me is race. That's racist.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah. If you have a general sensitivity, but like, well,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I just don't want some of these words have gotten
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: too hard to use.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I used to say all of them.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: But I don't, um, now because it just has a
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: different effect.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm like, you're saying, like you're saying earlier, we,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: We get older. Something's just kind of, it lands different.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: It lands different depending on how things are. Language is
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: a living thing.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And the way people communicate is always changing. And the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: sounds you make are affected by the other sounds in
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the air.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So you don't live in a vacuum. And it doesn't mean,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: that's not a moral thing to me. That's just, do
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: you want to be understood? Right. Do you want to,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: what do you want to convey? What feeling are you
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: trying to put out there? And sometimes the N-word can
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: be said with a lot of love. It can also
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: be said with humor or just experimental confusion. But at
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: a time where there's like certain things that got tightened up,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have that effect anymore. So make an adjustment.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. And also it's by generation. It's like some
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: people may accept a 15-year-old half Mexican kid saying it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: But some people might not accept a 50-year-old half Mexican
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: kid's name.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. And I mean, the word colored
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: was no way when I was growing up. Colored was
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: like the, that's, but now they say it. But now
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: as people of color, like things move around. When you
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: start censoring, you freeze yourself and you're no longer hearing
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: what's going on out there. You know what I mean?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: That's why you got to have the flow.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And you got to just trust people to go like, okay,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: let's put N-word on the shelf for a while. And
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: color is back. Colored is respectable now. It moves around.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating language. It's like the most amazing thing about
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: what we do, you know?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and you use it so well, man. You
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: use it so well. And it is interesting. Like I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: will try to find a word. It's like sometimes I'll
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: say something and I'll be like, No, that's not it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I need the exact word.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And if I can get the exact word it can
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: help me unlock a feeling for sure it can help
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: me be extremely specific about what I'm trying to say
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: where do you look for your words I look like
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: in my feelings a lot of times you know I
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: yeah I look at my feelings like.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You got a dictionary in your heart yeah it's.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Like that's not the word And sometimes you get it
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't get it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I bought a big dictionary recently because I write– I
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: like to have a dictionary with me when I'm writing fiction.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And I wrote this book and then I started writing
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: this other one. And I write it with a typewriter.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: It's very old-fashioned.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And so I wanted to get a dictionary that had
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of– A lot of depth to it because
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: when I'm looking for a word, I go, I like
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: looking at the reference and some dictionaries have like usage
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: of the word they give you. Like, so there's a
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: guy named Samuel Johnson back in England in the early 1700s. Yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And he was the first person to write a dictionary
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: for English. He just wrote one. He was like, somebody
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: should have it. There was none. There was like lists
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: of words and catalogs, but he came up with the idea.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sit down and write a dictionary of
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: the whole English language. With every word describing the word
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: and giving examples in poetry and literature. And he just
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: sat down and he did it. And it's like this.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: It's huge. There's two volumes and it sits on my
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: desk on each side of me. And I flip through
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: these big pages and I read what Samuel Johnson himself,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: how he described each word.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Was it hard to find those?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, I got one on eBay. I, the thing that's
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: crazy is I want to get a real, uh, like
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: an original cause you can get first editions of that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Like that you're guys pulling up there. That's the first,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that's the birth of the English language. You can actually
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: touch it with your hands. You can actually own that.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: The first person to ever fucking do this.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: So that's the first dictionary ever.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: First dictionary by, and I'm just talking out of my ass.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not educated, but this is what I understand to
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: be true. Okay.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: A dictionary of the English language sometimes published as Johnson's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: dictionary was published on April, 1775. It is among the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: most influential dictionaries in the history of the English language. Um,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: there was dissatisfaction with the dictionaries of the period.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was nothing around.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: It's horrible.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: And I learned all this stuff about language from it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Like the letter I and the letter J were back
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: then were the same letter. So I, and like when
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you look at, uh, in his dictionary, the letter I
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: is defined. And it says I when it's used as
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: a consonant, it sounds like E or I. But when
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it's used as, I mean, as a vowel, but when
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it's used as a consonant, it sounds like J. And
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: that originally J was just an I with a little tail,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: just so you know that that's hard I, that's J.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Like this I is, yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when you look in the I section
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of his dictionary, it alternates I and J, like it
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: alternates J. Some words start with I, some start with J,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: but they're all in the same section.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: And it's the same with U and V. U and
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: V were just one word, but they had these two different,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it makes total sense.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But when you get to know this stuff about language, yeah,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: it gives you more, you can actually have more feelings
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: if you have more words. But I like your retro approach,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: which is you're looking for the words in your feelings.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose,
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• 26:46
  Speaker 2: This is my, this is a hard, because that's a, Oh,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: you brought me Ingram. I brought you a hardcover of Ingram.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: It's an inscription, but just don't read it out loud.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to say, okay. Yeah. I'm going to
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: say that. Dude, thank you so much, man. Yeah. Yeah,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I read this. You sent me, and I still have
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it inside. I have, you sent me like, it was
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: in this green kind of folder that was really cool.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And it reminded me of like, kind of like, um,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: something that meant something like 25 years ago, 20 years ago,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you get a script and it would be like, and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it would be in something, you know, it'd be like
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: in this sort of like green, um, folder yeah it's
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: professional binder yeah yes it was a binder yeah and
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you gave it to me like that and you let
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: me read this whole book dude well you read a
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: really early version yep and it took me two months
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: to read it because i was like i don't know
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: what was going on it was probably i don't know
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: who knows taking breaks to touch my body probably but
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: it was awesome. And every time I came back to it, dude,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it was just fascinating. Um, and it's a, it's a,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: it's a book about, well, it's a book about a
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: boy who's kind of neglected and then he has to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: take on the world himself. Is that right?
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I would say, yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: It's, uh, it's about a boy who grows up on a,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that's what it looks like on a farm, just a
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: shit farm.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: And, um, he lives in a cage or in a, Well,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: he just lives outdoors. His parents don't let him sleep
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: in the house.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And he sleeps, sleeps in the shed and he just
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: sits on the porch steps where the animals are. He's the,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: his father, it's one of these farms. His father's got
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: like one pig. He's just trying to get a little extra.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And, uh, his parents are very overwhelmed and his father
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: one day tells his, uh, the, the bank comes to
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: over take the house. They give him a few days.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: So the father tells the mother to slaughter all the
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: meat and And he goes on the horse and says,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sell this horse and I'll come back.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And he just never comes back. So the kid's left
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: with his mother who's just so weak. And she just
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: tells him, you got to go. And he's like 10.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And she tells him, I can't, your luck's worse here
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: than it would be out there.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: So, and she's just too hollowed out to overcome what's
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: going on with her.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And she probably thinks the best thing she could do
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: to save him would be to send him off.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Get him out there and let him learn how to
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: start taking care of himself. So all she tells him
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: is stay alive any way you can. That's like all
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the advice he's given. And he just hits the road.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: And I started writing it, and I didn't know. It's
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: the first novel I ever wrote. I wanted to write
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: novels when I was a kid. That was like the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: first thing I really wanted to be.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: And then I just took so many drugs that I
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: feel like I burnt myself. and it's only now really recovering.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Is that true you're saying that?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I feel that way a little bit.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Bit.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I used to feel that way, but, um, were you
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: using opioids or whatever? When I was a kid, I
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was doing a lot of, um, smoking a shit ton
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: of pot. Oh yeah. And we took a lot of
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: acid and mescaline and stuff like that too. And I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: don't think that hurts you, but, uh, it does take
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: out the linear of your thinking a little bit, but, uh, But, um.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: But your life got busy too then. Yeah.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And then I became a comedian, which I always thought
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: was like, just, it's a free form scattershot verbal art.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: So I always felt like I could, it was what
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I could handle, you know, but I wanted to be
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: a writer, you know, and then I wrote television, but
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: writing TV and movies is, is more like a blueprint. You're, you're,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: it's technical writing. Here's what needs to happen when we
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: shoot this, but actually writing something that's meant to be read.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: is what I really wanted it to do.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: And.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: God, so cool. Yeah, so I started writing short stories
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: a few years ago and I got really back into it.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: And when Ingram kind of like came into my head,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I just had this ritual of sitting down every day
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: and asking him like, what happened to you? And it
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: was just a story that just kept coming.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Asking the child, the character? Yeah, yeah, like what happened?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: And I felt like I was taking care of him
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: by like taking an honest account, trying to just be
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: honest and not, trying to achieve anything in writing it
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: or trying to, you know what I mean? Or be impressive.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to be, I just want to hear
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the voice and see what happened. And, and I worried
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: about him every day cause he has a hard, it's
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: a hard life that he lives.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But I learned from him because he kept like just
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: being curious and reporting when it stinks, but not complaining.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's times he takes on some abuse
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: a couple of times and I was like, God, It's
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: like you, like, yeah, I mean, there's parts, especially toward, like,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the later parts of the book, so harrowing. Some of
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you are like, God, why can't he, why doesn't he
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: know better? Yeah.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just simple. I mean, he's not simple like
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: mentally challenged. He just hasn't had any. Like Dennis Rodman
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: or whatever? Or who else am I going to say?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: That's not fair. Or no, somebody else. Dennis Rodman is
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: anything but simple. You're right.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: That's a great complex dude. Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: He's a fucking Rubik's cube. All the stickers are different.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: There's not even one color is the same.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even one of those like Indian kids
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: couldn't put that. Forget it. Yeah. That was a bad choice. But, um,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: but yeah, dude, there was times you're like, ah, yeah,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you feel for him that much. And you did such
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: a great job of making me feel for him.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, thanks.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I can't tell like how I got to know him
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: so good as I'm reading it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I, I guess, uh, I don't know for boys,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: it's this thing of getting thrown out into the world
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Um, I, I was alone a lot
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: as a kid and out in the street, just trying
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to figure out what life is. And you just become,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you're kind of a Mike, a boy is kind of
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: a microcosm of a human being. ape turning into a
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: human being, you know what I mean? Like adapting.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Evolution's right there.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, evolution from the first day of life, especially if
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: you're kind of left alone. If you spend a lot
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: of time alone as a boy, you're just catch as
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: catch can, and then you go, oh, I guess that's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: what this is like. Right. And some things you get
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: strong at and some you don't.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And some things you learn from the worst influences too.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: It just happens to be the influence that was passing
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: through town or that stopped and rolled its window down.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy the way you can get influence.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what happens to him in some ways, huh? Yeah.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Like there's this one part where he's got, uh, he's
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: been working on a farm, um, like just pulling up
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: corn and he makes money in dimes just cause it's
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the first currency that he learned to respect was the
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: 10 cent dime. So he makes them pay him in
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: dimes and he has, he hides them under a tree.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And when he decides to leave the farm, he digs
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: them up and he falls asleep in his cabin. And
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: there's this, he wakes up and there's this guy there.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: about to steal his money. And Ingram at this point
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: has a little knife and he's, he's thinking he's going
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: to have to defend himself. You know, he's going to
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: have to stick this guy, but he, he, he's trying
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to figure out cause he's never been taught. Is it
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: okay to actually harm somebody for money? Like, is it to,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to defend yourself is one thing, but to defend this thing. Yeah. And, um,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And then it occurs to him that the guy might
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: be a little scared, even though he's bigger than him,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: even if it's a kid. Like, it's not easy to
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: beat the shit out of a kid. Right. Like, it's
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: no small thing.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're resilient. Kids survive all kinds of stuff.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're going to go through something. So
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Ingram says to the guy, why don't we split it?
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: And the guy goes, I don't have to split it
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: with you. I can just take it. And he goes, yeah,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: you can, but it's going to be trouble. I'm going
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to give you a hard time. I'll split it with
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: you now. And by it's my money, but I'll give
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: you half of it if we could just split it.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And then they look at it and neither of them
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: know how to count. So they got that problem, but
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't know where it was going. I got to
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: this moment in it where they're in this standoff and
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, what's his solution. But by following his
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: logic and in the way he looked at life without
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: having been taught, he found solutions that I just came
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: to me naturally. Um, that I wouldn't have found in life.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? You just get taught things.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Like you got to defend, you got to, anybody fucks
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: with you, you have to hurt them. Right. You do,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Let's split the difference. Yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Split them up. I'll take half.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I'll take half.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I'll take half and nobody has to throw a punch.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I stay alive. And also I don't have to feel
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the pain of if I stabbed you and if I
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Which can be just as harrowing. Of course.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: You got to walk around in life knowing you stabbed
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: somebody for a hundred dollars.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude, there's a lot of great parts. Man, honestly, bro,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: it's awesome. It was so much fun to read. It
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: reminded me of like, I mean, this sounds crazy, but
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: it reminded me of like a real book.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Well, I feel the same way. To me,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: it still doesn't add up to me or make sense
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: that I wrote a book. I grew up in a
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: world of books. You look at a book, you're like, well, nobody,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: that's somebody else.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Somebody else can do that, not me. And I've tried.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I've written short stories and things that have sputtered out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: When I got to the end- Like when the publishers,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I got a publisher, this place, Ben Bella.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Simon & Schuster, is that who you're with?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Simon & Schuster is distributing it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: The publisher is a company called Ben Bella out of Texas.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Really nice people. And when I started working with them
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: and they were going through the book and the editorial part,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: they said it was kind of curious that I say
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: the end, cause it's like a Grimm's fairy tale. Like
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: nobody does that anymore, but I asked to keep it.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Cause that's, to me, it was crazy that I got there.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe I got to the end. And I
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: was just like, the day I finished this, I was like,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: I wrote a fucking novel. And, uh, you know, I,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: if I wasn't me with a little bit of sense
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: that I could probably sell something, I don't know that
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: it gets out. I have no idea. Um, and everybody
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: that's right. I haven't, I haven't had anybody read it
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: that hates me. So I don't know if it's good, but, uh,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. Folks can buy it. It's yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: It was great. I know it comes for, it's, you
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: can pre-order it now.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: September 20th, 20th, not November.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: It's coming out in November, mid November.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, but you can pre-order it. It's good if people
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: pre-order it, cause then they'll, They'll print more.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Put the ranks up, yeah. Get it up there.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Get it up.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: And look, I'm not even joking, guys. Like, you know,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I like to read. I really, like, especially for, like,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: a young man, like, if you've had neglect in your
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: life or you wonder, like, how a child would start
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: to absorb the world with not even being taught how
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: to be much of a sponge in a way, kind
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: of like. I mean, it's just fascinating. And it was,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: it was, it took, I was just right there in it.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I was right there in it with him. It takes
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: place in Texas, right? Yeah. Oklahoma, Texas or something.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Texas.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And so like, yeah, he's just like walking along the
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: highway and these car, like things are, cars are badly,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: things he's never even seen. He's never seen any of it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: It's all fucking great. Yeah.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: He calls the pavement hard black dirt. Cause he doesn't
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: really know what, cause he grew up barefoot in the
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: dirt and.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: It amazed me. I was like, oh shit, somebody can
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: do this. I think, I think that was probably the,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: cause like, you know, you and I know each other
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: and I knew that I know like your comment, I
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: know that. And then I, I, I've gotten to know
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you some as a person, but then to see that
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: somebody can make this and it's a real fucking book.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends that have made some
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: okay books. Right.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll buy them. I'm not reading them. Yeah.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: But this, I was like, well, I love doing it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: I wrote another one. I just finished a second one. And, uh,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: if I can make that what I do, I'm going
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: to make that what I do. Like I see in the,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, whatever, when you get a vision of what
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: you want your future to be, you might get 40%
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: of it and that's okay with me. But what I
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: like is the idea of having kind of like a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: nice cruising altitude, standup comedy, uh, performing and writing novels
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: because i really love doing it um and now that
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: i wrote one and the second one was a lot
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: it took me much longer i spent a year and
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: two months on the second one because this one i
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: was like wanted to finish so that i wouldn't not
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: finish it but now that i know i can finish
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: one i feel like i got a flow it's really
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: fun to do yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: And do you think it's the most because all i
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: wanted to be i think when i was a kid
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: was a writer probably like i loved to read John Irving.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I loved, once I got into his stuff, it was, like,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: so exciting, like, all the different possibilities. Yeah. And the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: ways that, like, who was that Irish lady that, O'Connor.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Flannery O'Connor.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: God. What an imagination.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like. I could be a murderer.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: She has this story about a kind of cranky woman
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: who lives alone on a farm. She like runs a
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: farm and she's just tough. And the guy next door
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: who's black, she's every, I mean, the N word, talk
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: about the N word, Flannery O'Connor, it's like fucking polka
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: dots on wallpaper.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: It's everywhere. It's just everywhere. If you like some soft
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: use of it.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But so in this story, the guy next door
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: has a bull that keeps getting loose and coming over
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: to her property and she hates it. And it's this,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: this justice, you're in this woman's crankiness. And it's really
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: something to be like, instead of like this thing where
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: we watch Karen's on YouTube and say, that's somebody else.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: She takes you inside the mind of a very bitter
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: and cranky person who just doesn't like the world she's in.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: And in the end of the story, it's a short story,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: the bull gores her to death. The bull gets his
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: fucking horns in her stomach and rips her to pieces.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. And Flannery O'Connor... Which some black neighbor males
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: will get if you leave your wife around. Yeah. And
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: she dies....
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: And the book stays in her head while she's dying.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: So you get to, like, you see the lights get
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: brighter and you see some, I don't remember, I read
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: this a long time ago.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Greenleaf, it says.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the one, but does she
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: die with a bull at the end?
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: One day Miss May is upset to find a stray
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: bull on her property. She's worried that the bull will
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: breed with her milk cows.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: That's it, right.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: She blames Mr. Greenleaf. Yeah. Who appears reluctant to confront
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: the bull. Yeah. There it is.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: But before she dies, Mrs. May has a moment of
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: spiritual clarity. The story notes that she has the look
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: of a person whose sight has been suddenly restored, but
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: who finds the light unbearable.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, what the fuck? And this is the thing.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Flannery O'Connor was just a regular person in America. And-
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: it kind of, uh, one of the reasons I, that
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I wrote Ingram is because I live in a world,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: New York city, you know, modern culture and, um, but
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: this America has always had this voice. People like Flannery O'Connor,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Mark Twain, who were, or, uh, Harper Lee, um, who
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: were born in little places, quiet little places, people like you,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: you have this kind of a voice and, Where it's
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: not through like Harvard education and like reading. It's just
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that the American voice is very eloquent, simple and eloquent.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: With that sentence I just wrote of hers, that's not
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: a collegiate sentence. That's like someone who lived in an
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: old house and walked really far to the grocery store
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: and had thoughts like that. That's what you grew up
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: in some parish place. You know, for where I'm from,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: the word parish just sounds so exotic. It's just a different,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: you grew up in America and it made you an
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: eloquent person. Like Abraham Lincoln, he, a lot of years
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: of Abraham Lincoln's life, he lived in a lean-to with
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: an open, that he would lay with his family and
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: there was no wall and he'd see like a jaguar
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: come up and sniff the.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Family and he'd just lay there.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: And he ended up saying some of the most beautiful
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: things ever said just by opening his mouth.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I just think that America has that language in it.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And I started to hear this kid and I thought,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I wonder if I can make a connection with somebody
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: who sounds like that. And that's a humble, I don't
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: know that I did it, but I, but that's what
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I was trying to touch.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: When you're listening to Ingram. Yeah. Help him guide you
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: to write the book. Yeah. That's cool.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Something like that.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: No.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And look, man, I, you just have such a, I mean, like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I just, you're so good at like, you're like the
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: guy who's like, say like your feelings and everything was
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: like a cave or whatever. And everybody's at the top
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: and they're like, we can't go in there, you know?
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: And they're not even, there's like one brave Mexican guy
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: who's like selling fucking snow cones or something, but not
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: At the mouth of the cave? At the mouth, yeah.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: But it's close. It's no abierto.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: No abierto. No abierto.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: And he says that. Yeah, no abierto. No abierto. But
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you want a snow cone? That's it, right? He's over, look.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Because it's capital.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: 50 centavos para un snow cone.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Pero eso no es abierto, amigo. No pase. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: But then you walk up and you have like your
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: fucking spelunking gear and shit. You're like, who the fuck
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: is this psychopath? But you're like, I'll be back. And
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: people are like, what? You can't go in there. Look
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: at all the signs. There's like a million signs. You're like, no, no, no.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I've been in here. I spent a lot of time
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: in here. I left something down there. I left a
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: favorite pack of bubble gum down there. That's right. Yeah,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it feels like that. But you were just so good
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: at going in there and just being in there, man.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: But also getting in there and getting in there and
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: seeing what the stalactites are that our hangups in our
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: time or in our feelings, in our existence, in what
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: it means to evolve, like personally, like, man, you're just
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: like such a archeologist of, I don't know what it is.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's emotions or feelings or just
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: of existing kind of.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I love to try to do. What
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: you're describing is what, what I try to do on,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I've never, I've never.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Hurt it that way.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: But that's what it does feel like is, is being
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: a God, bringing people to these places and going, it's okay. It's, it's,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: you can look at this.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Without, um, letting it hurt you or you can let
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: it hurt and you're going to be okay on the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: other side. It's okay.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Right. And, uh, having that.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: And because I've been doing standup for 40 years now,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: like I'm very beyond, uh, taking it personally. So if
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I say something to a crowd and I feel them resist,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I don't take, I don't go like, oh, they don't
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: like me now. That's one, one of the problems of
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: being a standup is you're so exposed.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Personally.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: So if they don't like something, you feel like you
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: take it on, but I'm okay with any outcome. Like
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: they're all okay. So if I say something and people
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: just go, what? I go, cool.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Now we're here.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Right. Now we're here that you're weirded out. There's a
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: bunch of places we can go from here because I
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: see it all as okay. I think I see every
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: feeling as worth having, especially if you don't, like I
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: kind of came up with this new idea in my
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: life recently, which is that your feelings are like fire
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: and you warm yourself by them. You sit by the
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: fire of the feeling. You don't get in it and
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: let it burn you, but you also don't go away
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: because it's hot. You don't go away from it. And
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: then you're cold out there and there's no light. Just
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: sit and just let it, you know what I mean?
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to get better at that. I think
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of early in life, I was more brutal
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: about like, yeah, look at this shit. This is fucked up.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Look at this shit. And that's, it's, that's just kind
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: of messy, but I'm trying to get a little more
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: refined at taking people to hard things to talk about
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: and going like, just, let's just sit next to this
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: for a second. And how does it feel to be
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: next to this? You know, get used to it.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Because, uh, Every experience in life, certainly feelings are, I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: think feeling is living. I used to think thinking was
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: more or learning, but I think feeling, when people really
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: feel they're right on, you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Feelings are never wrong. Ooh, yeah, they're pretty pure, huh?
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: They are. Even if you may not agree with somebody's
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: feeling or something, it's interesting to see why they have
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: it if you believe that it's pure from them. Well,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: it also goes back to that lady's quote, to Flannery
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: O'Connor's quote. I mean, that's more like about feeling in there.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I finally saw the world and it was unbearable.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: And it is, especially when you first really see it.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: But if you're willing to, like Chris Rock, he's a
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: good friend and he's sometimes a mentor. He says great things.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's the best comedian. He's always been my favorite.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I remember every time I've gone to him in a
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: tough moment, he's never let me out of it. Like,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: like I'll, I'll, I called him once I was doing
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: a pilot for the show, Lucky Louie that I, uh, sitcom.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: And after the, we did two shows, we did two
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: performances of the pilot. And after the first one, I
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: was like, I, I'm terrible. And I called him up
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: and I said, I'm really scared. I think I might
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: just be a bad actor. And he said, yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's scary.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Shit.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: He wasn't like, you're great, man. He was like, yeah, well,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: you better, uh, study your lines. I mean, Cause maybe
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: you are. And I was like, oh, okay. And at
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: the same time, like I shot a special once I
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: did two shows and after the first show I called
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: him I said I just killed and he said you
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: did nothing go do it again you did nothing like
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: he's a guy that makes you really look at it
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: and uh wow.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: That's cool that's cool to be that kind of friend
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: yeah it's cool to be that kind of like challenger
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: too To challenge people?
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Well, just to be real.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I think, you know. So true, huh?
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Like in Rocky, you know, in Rocky, one of the
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: great things about Rocky is that it's a sports movie
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: where the guy loses, you know? I don't think most
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: people even realize that Rocky loses the fight at the end.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: But the big moment in Rocky is when he's talking
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: to Adrian the night before the fight. You know, he
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: goes to the ring and he sees the spectacle. And
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: he's been training and they play the music and he
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: went like this. But then the night before the fight,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: he goes back home to Adrian and he says, uh,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: I can't beat him. It's just a fact I can't
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: beat him. He's just in another class. I'm not even
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: close to him. I will not win. And instead of saying,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: you can do it, Rock, she goes, what are we
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: going to do? Like, she just lets that be real.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: And she goes, what are you going to do? And
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: then he decides I'm going to pick my own victory. I, I,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: and I can't beat him, but I bet I could be,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I bet I could stand there while he beats me.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I bet, I bet I can get through the fight
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: to the end.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: What a great goal. And that's what he does. And
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: at the end of the fight, Apollo Creed wins and
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Rocky doesn't give a shit because he got what he wanted.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if somebody is honest with you, if
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: there's a real piece of honesty there, then you can
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: navigate from that place. That's right. Which is pretty real
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: as opposed to like things that are so placated and
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: then you're kind of in this fictional space. Like, yeah,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to win, you know. But now you're like, okay,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: how can I win? How do I find a way
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: to do this, to navigate this?
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or what do I do about that I'm not
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: going to? What else is there? It's not the end
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: of the world. Because both things, like saying you can
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: do it, this fantasy, it's nowhere. It doesn't take you anywhere.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: And the same with doom. I can't do anything. I
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: got nothing.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Now, where are you?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: This is reality. And usually it's your feelings that will
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: navigate you to where is like Rocky did. I can't win,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: there it is, but what do I, and then he
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: goes inside his heart and goes, I don't have to win.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I just don't wanna quit. I just wanna do that
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: one thing of standing there. Because I've had a hard life,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: because I've never gotten anything I wanted, that I know
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I can do. That means I can get the shit
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: beat out of me on national TV, but I could
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: do it for 12 rounds. Most people can only do
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: it for eight. That's fucking good.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: And it goes back to like finding that thing, like
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: finding the word, finding what is the thing that you
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: really need, right? Yeah, the word. He would have liked
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: to have won for sure, but what does he really want?
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: What's the real victory for him? That's right.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is victory? What is it to be victorious?
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: What is it to be....
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Right, like somebody might be working their butt off to
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: make money, but it's like, do you really want money?
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Do you want to do you like, that may be it,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: but is that just a block? Sometimes we get caught
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: in with like this general goal of society, or we
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: all get like herded into what the goal is supposed
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: to be without looking at what exactly it is that
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: we want.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Which makes sense because people coalesce so that they
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: can survive.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: So human beings are shitty animals. They're like really a
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: human being out in the, in the wilderness.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: It's done.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: It's not worth much. but you group together and you're good.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of like all the things that are
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: hard about life are because of what we're good at.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: People fight and attack each other, but they're trying to,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: in a way, get closer together.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, in other words, when people say you shouldn't
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: be doing that because that's not what everybody else is doing,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: their heart's in the right place because we all want
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: to be. The weird thing is that now a lot, Um,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: you get rejected for coming together. Like it's the opposite.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: It's a weird time right now. It's like a car
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: battery can have a polarity reversal where it gets confused
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: and suddenly north is south, south is north. We've done
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: something weird where the accepted thing is to be separate.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: The accepted thing is to be like enemies of each other.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And to, if you say,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: if you move towards the middle of any issue, People
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: start getting nervous because they want you to– the safe
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: place is these extremes.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I noticed that.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: But that's not what we're good at.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: That's not what got us through the ice age and
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: the– that's not what got us out of the food chain.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: What got us out of the food chain was like
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: just put aside your shit and try to be– try
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: to see other people as important to you. So that
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: you'll work together. But now it's like scary to say,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm like this guy, even though he's
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: not like me. You know what I mean? That you
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: can get ostracized for being for love. It's a weird,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: it's a weird time. And I have to believe.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: You can get ostracized for being accepting.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. There is a sign at one of
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: the theaters I did this week.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: It says.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Hatred will not be allowed here. Our policy towards hatred
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: is zero tolerance.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: But that's a weird.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: We hate hatred.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Zero tolerance is something you're... That's hate, isn't it?
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Zero tolerance and hatred are opposites.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: So hatred and zero tolerance.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Are equal. They're the same, like no hatred of any kind.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It said, I'm like, what about, I hate my dad
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. How do I even get that out of
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: my system before I go in here to watch a matinee?
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: So I don't know.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I think, um, yeah, that's like, but it's not human
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: nature there. I have like a faith in the way
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: things are going to go because, and also I see
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: it like, you know, whenever people complain about like, everybody
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: always says this, right?
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: You hear that a lot.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: You can't say this without saying that everybody does this.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: The group that behaves that way is shrinking and shrinking
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: and shrinking. Cause if you really go out on the street,
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: if you get off the, if you look at people
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: in the eyes and you see people every day, most
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: people are just like really eager to find each other
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: again and to, and reaching out to people as, as,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: as unlike them as they can find and wanting to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: find love and common ground. That's how human beings behave.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: And sometimes there's a confusion that scatters them. Um, but
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: it doesn't last. I don't think, I don't think it can.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, if it does, then everybody will. And that's what, yeah, that's,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: that's what will happen. That'll be the test we didn't pass.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, the test we didn't pass. Yeah.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it may come or it might not.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Louie, what if it comes then? Some of us can
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Some of us can. Nothing you can't, you know.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: We have to have a meeting though. If things get
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: really bad, we all have to meet somewhere.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Where would we meet?
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe Denver or something.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Some place where the air is clean, the water is
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: clean still. So you have like a surviving chance. Yeah.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Altitude cures some diseases. Some stuff you don't even get
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: at altitude.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or the Amish. You know, the Amish have one-tenth
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: of the attention deficit disorder. Really? That regular.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: They have AIDS a lot, though, I heard. Yeah, Amish
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: AIDS is like, it's kind of.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, no. Look, dude, Amish. Look, yeah, I'm not surprised.
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  Speaker 1: That's better H E L P.com slash T H E O. In, um,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: the Amish, like, uh, I don't know how, I don't
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: know if it was like maybe 20 years ago, somebody
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: started recording just on people's genealogy, right? Like a book.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of their dictionary that they'll keep it
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: to their Google where they'll go and look and be like, Oh,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: who is that? I've heard of them. And how do
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I know them? And they have this, and it's like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: a recurring book that a lot of different families and, um,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: districts that's what they live in called like it's a
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: lot of times it's associated with their church and so
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: they'll have one of the it's their google it's like
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: oh go look and see who they are and you
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: can see how much land they have or animals you
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: can see all kinds of things about a certain family
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: what the children's names are and stuff so they kind
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: of have their own book that's like a form of
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: google right.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: There descendants of abe troyer and lucinda summers that's the.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Book i mean it's basically something like that because i
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: mean they started off from just a couple of folks
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: you know it's.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Uh all records of stuff is fascinating Like the people
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: used to have to just write everything down.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Forget, you know, I was at the New York public
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: library once and they, at the New York public library,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: the big one with lions in front, they have every
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: book there like ever. And, uh, some of them, you
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: can look at anything you want. Some of them you
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: got to put gloves on. Um, because they're very old.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: And I, I was looking for something about Gloucester mass
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: and the, uh, um, it says, I don't want to
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: describe what I was looking for. Cause it's just boring.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: But I found this book that was like the shipping
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: logs for Gloucester back in the 1700s. And I read
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: it and it's like an old writing. And it just
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: said in this winter, you know, 16 ships were lost.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: There were 34 new widows and 54 orphans and stuff
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: like that. And just like, just record keeping, but that
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: would make you cry. You know what I mean?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, things were so severe back then.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: We were fucking... man. I'm not, but a lot of
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: us are. Yeah, no, we, but when it comes to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: our feelings, we don't wait, like, we're just, I don't know.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: We're just, we're softer now. Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: It used to be like, or we're harder. I think
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: people aren't feeling as much, you know, they're avoiding their feelings.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I think people are scared of their feelings, but your
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: feelings are native. Like there's no feeling that's going to
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: kill you. It's just not, uh, avoiding a feeling will
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: kill you. But, um, we do a lot, you know,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: in addiction and stuff like that to stay away from
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: feeling something.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean, even you were talking earlier about go,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: you like a, like a feeling is like a warm place.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you want to get right by it.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Like I was thinking the other day and I've thought
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: about this before, but I was rekindling the thought that, um, yeah, something,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes I don't want to change certain behaviors just because
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, you, part of you wants to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: have an excuse because it gives you an excuse not to,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: so that other things don't happen you know like there'd
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: be times where I didn't want to quit smoking because
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I was like well if I quit smoking then I'll
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: have to find something else positive to do I won't
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: have the excuse that oh I can't do that because
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: I'm smoking or I don't want to feel that because
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: I'm smoking because I would go to smoking a lot
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: of times if I was like I had an intense
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: feeling or if I you know felt rejected or I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: wanted you know like it became this kind of like
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: a bit of like a shower curtain to shield me
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: from like real moments you know.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, when your life becomes a series of shit
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: you do, you know, I smoke, I eat barbecue, I
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: drink at night, I watch this. Then you can avoid
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: like a day of just being on earth under the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: fucking swirling sky. It's fucking intense. Like if you're really
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: paying attention, if you really wake up to the present moment,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: fucking terrifying it's constantly moving nothing's promised everything that you've
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: accomplished is gone and you're just in this and so
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: if you could just set out a bunch of stupid
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: tasks and like and like uh habits yeah you know
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: and whatever all ladies night at whatever it is you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: know bowling and going to see that and now uh
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: they've turned there's this this screen on your phone where
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you don't need to even choose what that is yeah
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: you just let this feed just kind of keep you
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: glazed over.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Just serving.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Serving all night long. And, and you get, nobody's even
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: sleeping anymore. And you just kind of go to this
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: thing and you're just not, you're not feeling nothing. You're,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: you're taking, these are fake feelings. These are fake feelings
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: in a safe environment. Can't believe she did that.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I can't believe he said, what a piece of shit.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: why are they getting on his case? Like all these
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: just dumb things and like, you know, just keeping it going. It,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: it used to be that they used to call a
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: thing clickbait where they, they make something so juicy that
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: people would click on it, but nobody's clicking much anymore.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's just going by. It's just that feed.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: So they're just going like, like this and, and that's
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: living now. The thing I don't understand is who's benefiting.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Cause if everybody's doing this, I don't know, eight different
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: people are getting incredibly rich and, uh, Oh yeah.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: And the rest of us are really going to turn into.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Just, and the, and the, and the phone is burning
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: a circuit somewhere. You know, when your phone is doing
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: that scroll, there's a, there's a physical thing that's, there's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: like a little light that's burning somewhere like in, in
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: North Carolina at like a data farm.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: This isn't, this isn't like, it's not in the phones,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: not really doing the work. There's something else that's making
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: that there's a processor that's doing that and take, putting
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: it in the cloud and bringing it to your phone.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: But there's smoke going in the air, hot smoke, every
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: time you just go like this. And everybody's doing this
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, in the middle of the night, I'll wake up literally.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: It's almost like I have to do it for like
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: a minute so I can go back to sleep. I'm
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: not even joking. I'll wake up, I'll see like four things.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I'll be like, okay. Yeah, yeah. Racism, murder.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just as a blanket, like murdered, like a little.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Get you back to sleep. Yeah, someone's dead. Okay, good.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, good.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: A little bit of racism.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Finally, I was going to get a sip of water,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: but that'll do it.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: No, it's very bad for you. And it's such a
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: lucrative addiction.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: And people are convinced that that's where they're going to
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: go to convince people of what's right and wrong. And
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: that's where you sell stuff.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: So everyone just gave into it. And it's like if
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: we were all doing heroin, but somebody somehow stopped calling
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: it heroin. Uh, and, and the, the, the machines that
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: make that, that make the run, those processes are going
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: to get hotter and hotter and AI and all that stuff.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, the data centers are getting crazy, man.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's going to be nuts. There's, I was reading
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: an article about, uh, in Virginia, they, um, they want
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: to use farmland a lot for the solar panel because
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: the companies that do data don't like they, you know,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: they have a style, so they don't want to be, um,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: they don't want to burn coal, you know, they don't
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: want to burn oil.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Right. Cause it does. Yeah. That seems bad. It seems
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: not cool.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So nuclear, no problem. All of a sudden, like
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: that's no longer a problem. And, uh, and solar, right.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: But solar is like heavy. So they've, it takes a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: lot of those things which are made in China. Uh, and, uh, they,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: they pollute a lot just to make them the panels,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: the panels. But anyway, in Virginia, there was this County
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: where they're trying to get these panels out cause they're
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: putting them on the farmland. So, um, In other words,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: there used to be farm fields.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Where the sun, the natural sun would touch the soil
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: and make green for, to eat and to make oxygen.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: It's like the most perfect thing. Right.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: And they're putting these fucking black panels on over the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: flowers to catch the sun and use it instead for the.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: You and i can doom scroll and a lot of
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: the um the data centers they're they're using up like
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of the water right they're using up a
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: lot of like power in places like they're monopoly and
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: they're building them everywhere everywhere and it's happening fast and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: we started to look at well like We were talking
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: with that Sam Altman guy. He's a chat GPT. He's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: like started that, right? Yeah, yeah. And I was saying, well,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: do you feel like the earth could look like– bring
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: up that picture that we had. It was like the
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: whole earth is covered in panels. And it's kind of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: what we see when we watch like Star Trek. Yes,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: or like Doctor Who. I don't know if you ever
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: watched that show. But like there's– if you look at
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: water towers, like it used to be you go into
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: an old town– Like in the middle of Kansas or something.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: And folks are still wearing like cowboy hats. They're still
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: driving old GMC trucks with faded side panels. Like going
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: into a place like that is very beautiful. When you
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: look at the water.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Towers now, which these faded, beautiful, big tanks in the sky,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: they're crusted over with these cell, uh, cell phone. uh
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: things you could probably find an image like.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: Oh they attached them all to them yeah they're all over.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: And it's like um they're they're completely covered in them
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: now and it's very ugly and it feels like a
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: mold like if you look at it it feels like
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: there's just this weird and so when you look at
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: the the combination of that with people on the streets
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: staring into a rectangle of black of nothing.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: A black rectangle.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: And everyone's just going like this and there's these crusty things.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: It makes it feel like a, like a creature in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: a way, but it's not, it's, I don't think, I
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: don't have some idea that it's from the outside. It's
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: like something inside of us wanted so badly to not
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: feel or something. It just, it started little, like this
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: feels good, you know.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: With looking at our screens. Yeah. Or like television first.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it started with like, theater maybe oh dioramas
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: i remember remember that sure yeah.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Or like stereo stereo uh photos yeah people used to
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: hold up a thing you could see.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Fucking peeping tom and was good.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah and like people like a girl with like you
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: know a little with titties and have heavy hips and
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: you put a nickel in that's where it started yeah
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: porn is the whole thing but uh that that thing
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: became let's all go to a movie theater and everybody
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: would go sit in a theater together or vaudeville and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: then tv then we went home by ourselves to do
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: it and it got you know what i mean more
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: and more and definitely got really used to it yeah
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: it happened gradually but it's become something really fucking weird oh.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah i mean you're sitting there and you know you
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: start to notice when you're looking at your screen and
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: then when you'll come out of it you know but
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: uh and you're saying it's like a molten like a
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: crab like a shell yeah and they start to like
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: get other like barnacles and things on barnacles it starts
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: to a oh for sure.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: It's barnacles of avoidance of like love avoidance.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Oh, and maybe it's cause
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: we like, did you see the eclipse that happened back
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: in a couple of years ago or April?
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: I did, man. I heard one of the most racist
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: things while I was watching it too. I hate to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: even bring that up.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: What did you hear?
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: I was standing next to a guy and I'm assuming
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: the guy was racist just because of what he said.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: He was talking to one of his buddies and the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: eclipse was happening and he goes, Oh, look at that.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Even the sun wants to be a, And he said
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: the N-word.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I was like, oh. You know, on
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: its face, you could take that as being loving black people.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Even the son. Like, if you say it like this, brother,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: even the son wants to be a black man.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: You could take it like that.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: You could convert what the guy said and make it
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: that now.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: That's a great point, actually. Yeah. You know what? There
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: was a beautiful- And that is actually most racism- I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: think is envious. Oh, for sure.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Everybody wants to be one of those guys, man. Oh,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: even the sun. I mean, some racism gets beautiful because
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: that's beautiful.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: That's poetic. Even the sun wants to be a black man.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: That's what he's, what's hurting him is not that black
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: people are bad. It's that, that everybody wants to be one.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Damn it.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: That's even the sun. Like somebody gets so racist that
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: they become, that they, you know, I remember when Obama
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: was running for president and there was Sarah Palin's rallies.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Some people would yell out racist shit.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Every time she mentioned his name, they'd go, all right,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: here we go.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: So she said his name and this woman with a,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: with a real like town, you know, a real, you know,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: old movies with a pitchforks and torches, you know, some
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: lady yelled out about Obama. You need gloves to touch them.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: And I was like, woo. But I thought there's a
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: few ways to look at that.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's priceless. Yes.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: And also like some part of her is going, I
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: want to touch him. Why can't I touch him? But
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: I need gloves because he's precious. Or like, you need
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: gloves to touch him. There's a lot in that, you know?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you want to touch him for? Yeah.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Man, you need gloves to touch him.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: You need gloves to touch him.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Well, you could also just leave him alone. But something
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: in you really wants to touch him. Touch him.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: But you're scared to.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: It's a complex thing.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: The truth of that, dude.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: I remember the first time a black man touched my
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: hand one time. And it was different. Sure. How old
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: were you? I was probably 10 or something, nine.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Why did you touch your hand?
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I went over to my buddy's house and they
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: were swimming just in like this little kind of round little,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a pool or just like,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: it had tetanus in it or whatever. It was like,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: it's like a, it was like a something for animals
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: that put water in it. So we're just playing in
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: there and swimming in there or whatever. And this guy,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: this black man had come and he was kind of
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: like tickling us and stuff sometimes. I think he was
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: being okay. I don't know if he was. But anyway,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But then he lifted me up out
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: of the thing too. And I just remember like also
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: he like touched my hand and I just was like, oh,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. This was like kind of interesting. Dude, I
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: remember I walked into a black doctor. Yeah. This is
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: in Nashville. This is two years ago. Yeah. I'd never
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: walked into a room in my life with a black doctor.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa. And I wasn't like, you know,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: I was just... It's new, something's new. Yeah, and I
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: was like, you guys, everybody, you know, looks at the
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: same books or charts or, you know, I just didn't know,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like when you're at Foot Locker
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: and there's a white woman working in there. You know
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying?
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: And you're like, this is interesting.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I support, I'm here for it.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Last time I was in a footlocker, I bought these
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: in a footlocker, oatmeal colored New Balance. I got them
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: in a footlocker in Salt Lake City. Oh, yeah. And
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: a young guy, I mean, I am really an old
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: man when I'm in a retail situation. I'm just older.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: And this young guy helped me and he took me
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: through a few different ideas and he let me try
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: some different things. He took the stuffing out of it.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: sneakers for me, set me up.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: And then I tried them on. He was patient while
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: I walked around feeling like, what are the, what's this like?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: You know, he really liked, it was like my mom,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: like shoe shopping with me.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: And he was maybe 19 and I could tell he
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: was kind of fidgeting. Like this guy's making me do
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: a lot, but, um, I bought the sneakers and I
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: did something that I think my dad used to do
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: and that I used to do when I was, uh,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know when. But I shook his hand at
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: the end. Just changed the money. And I said, thanks
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: very much. And I shook his hand. And he was like,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: what the fuck is this? Like, he didn't know what
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: that was. But that used to be. It's like, you know,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: it's the proprietor. It's like you go into the haberdashery
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: and you thank, you know. Good work.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: Thanks for your help today.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Appreciate that.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: He was just like, what's being done with my arm
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It is crazy, though. Yeah. That there will be
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: a time soon, Louis, where people will be like, so
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: we used to take a guy's hand that you didn't
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: know and move it up and down.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we used to pump it.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: For two seconds? Yeah.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some people dap.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Dap's okay. The handshake was for real. But then now
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: people are nervous, too. I think when they're around other people,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: people have wet hands. And that is scaring a lot
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: of people.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Well, when you shake hands, you really connect because every
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: finger has a different intention than the thumb. And you
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: grip someone with the perfect balance of like, I don't
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: want to hurt you, but I want you to, I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: don't want to make you feel like you're here with me.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: I want to, you know what I mean?
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: And then we're going to, I don't know what the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: shake is about though.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Bring that up. Why did the hands shake after
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: they touched? Yeah. I could see them touching.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: You know, like whenever they try to make movies about
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: like middle ages or like, you know, the places of lore.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: like Lord of the Rings or like the future. They
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: always reinvent, like they do like the clasp of the,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: you do this thing. But a handshake is a globally
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: widespread brief greeting or parting tradition in which two people
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: grasp one, you do it.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: And two people grasp one of each other's hands and
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: it is often accompanied by a brief up and down
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: movement of the grasped hands. Customs surrounding handshakes are specific
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: to cultures. The handshake may have originated in prehistory as
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: a demonstration of peaceful intent since it shows that the
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: hand holds no weapon. I like that. Another possibility is
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: it originated as a symbolic gesture of mutual commitment to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: an oath or promise. One of the earliest known depictions
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: of a handshake is an ancient Assyrian relief of the
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: 9th century BC depicting the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III clasping
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: the hand of the Babylonian king Marduk Zakir Shumi.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: So there's a picture of that down there, right? Yeah,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: two guys, two kings that were probably just fighting.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: And they said, hey, let's settle it.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: I can't hurt you for this one second.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: Right, no swords.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm using my fighting hand. It's going to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: be punched with the left. It's going to be weird.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: That's a good point because they both have a staff
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: in one hand that shows that they've been walking. The
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: other hand would grab the sword there. Yeah, that's your
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: sword hand. Yeah, brother. That's cool. You can get close
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: to me. It's all right. You've got my hand.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: I've got yours.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Right. Or even Steven, brother.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: But that gives me back to that fucking eclipse, that
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: racist eclipse.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: Because I saw the eclipse in– Vermont, um, up in Stowe, Vermont,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: or where were you in the center of Lake Champlain? Uh,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: at the time I was dating a woman who was
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: very wonderful. We had it, we were together for about
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: a year. We're not together now, but, um, she sounded hot.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: She was, she was great. So we, we decided to,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: we wanted to see the eclipse, uh, totality, you know,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: like there's certain places where there's like a line across
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: America that like this diagonal line, and only if you
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: stood in that line could you actually see the sun totally.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So it's a real hotbed. It's a real
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: hotbed for eclipsing?
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's where you see the actual, the moon totally
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: cover the sun and you go into total darkness. It's
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: called totality. Any other place you'd get a little, it's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: a little off and it's still basically daylight. Got it.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: And so... We decided to go and I looked on
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: that line and the place that was best for where
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: we were in New York was an island in the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: middle of Lake Champlain. And she's like, I have a
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: cousin who lives on that island. It's like North Hero Island,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's called. And so we went there and
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like a thing to get. We got,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: we were kind of just, we got there an hour
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: before the eclipse started and we're seeing people scurrying to
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: where they're going to, watch the eclipse. It was like
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: the world was coming to an end. Folks were getting
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: coolers with stuff and folks were, you know, everyone. And
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: the closer we got, the more quiet the streets got.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: And now people were just sitting in lawn chairs all
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: over Vermont, like just like this getting ready. And they
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: all had these glasses on and it was just like,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: and we're the only car. It was like a, like
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: a end of the world movie.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: And we get there and her cousins are all they're
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: all carrying big baggies of cigarettes because they buy their
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: cigarettes at an Indian reservation where they don't sell them
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: in boxes.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: They get a deal on them? Yeah, they get a big. Oh, God, yeah.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: So they just walk around with a bag and just
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: take it and smoke. And these were great people. We
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: were like right in the right place. It's just a
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: dead end road on an island in a Vermont, you know.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: And we went out into the middle, me and this woman,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: we went out into the middle of this field and
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: we could hear, so as the thing started and everything
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: started going, not black but brown, there was this brown,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: the sun disappeared behind the moon and every bird fucking
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: lost its mind.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: Every bird was.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck? Like you could hear every bird
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: in its own language saying, bitch, this is fucked up.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Shit.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: Like just screaming. And then people going, woo. And then
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: everything was dark and cold, like really cold. And it
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: was an incredibly moving thing. And I thought, and then
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: I heard people, there was fireworks going off. And the
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: feeling I had was, the immediate thought I had was,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: this is what the end of the world is going
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: to feel like.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: The end of the world is going to be beautiful
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: because it's going to bring everybody together because you can
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: finally just forget it all. You can finally just go,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: it's you and me, brother, you know?
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, make a sandwich. This is it.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's just, I got nothing against you. Like boxers
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: at the end of it, like just seconds ago I was,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: and now I just love you so much that everybody's
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: going to, that nothing that has ever happened is going
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: to matter at all.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: Like Ward and Gotti, man. Yes. Warden Gotti.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Like just fine at the end, just going like, man,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: I loved struggling with you. I got to know you
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: so well in fighting with you. I got, I saw
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: your wounds. I saw how you hurt me and oh
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: my God. And it's going to be this ultimate, especially
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: if we end it. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: We're just going to be like, fuck you, fuck you,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: fuck you, fuck you. Oh, thank God. Finally, finally I
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: got in close enough, uh, And we're together now and
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: there's nothing, all that's left is this one second.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Cause I don't think that time is like, like my
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: sister asked me once, are you afraid when you die,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: it's not going to feel like it was long enough.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: Are you afraid when you die, you're going to feel
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: like that wasn't enough life? Yes.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Are you? I think so.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not anymore because when I get a full moment
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: of living, like when I feel open bore fucking, you know,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: aperture 0.08, Uh, that feels so good. I feel like
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: that's it. I got it. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Like when you get a real moment of existing. Yeah.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's enough.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Right. Like it can be, and those moments can happen
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: in all types of ways.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: All types of ways.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Hugging a kid. Sometimes it's seeing a parent, you know,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: wipe a kid's cheek or something.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's standing on a subway platform and seeing somebody's
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: phone is next to the track and going like, no, no. Like,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: I see life now.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: There's so much in that one thing.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: That's so shitty.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's reading that sentence in that Flannery O'Connor quote.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes it's that, but sometimes it's just the dumb little.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: Just seeing somebody in their dumb little thing.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Seeing one shoe on the fucking interstate.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just one.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: Fuck. That's not me.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: And then driving by the next day, and it's not
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: there anymore. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you've got it on and then you're like, oh, yeah,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: it's just getting good. Oh, but yeah, some people used
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: to think the eclipse was just a time when you
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: could use racial slurs and it didn't get it. That's right.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: It didn't.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: But somebody heard it. Yeah. But still.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: Now a lot of people heard it.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. But there is little moments you're like, yeah,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: that's life. Yeah.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: So I don't know. I think it's enough. I'd really
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: ambitious to live more. I love it. I'm going to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: really love living a lot. Really?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember when we went to Chris Rock's
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: birthday together? You took me there.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: It was an incredible night.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: Dude, that was so... First, we went for Italian food.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: That night had no right to be that great.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, we were.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: All we did was go to an Italian restaurant.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: And go to a birthday party.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Can we say that we went to his birthday
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: party or not? It's okay.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: It wasn't private.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: It was a big party. Madonna was there.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's little.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: I think we can say that we were there.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we felt like misfits, remember? Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We were like, this is weird. Cause it was super,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: super famous people. And yet the center of attention, Chris
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: is like my best friend. So, but I, but it
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: was like, this is not, I don't belong here. And
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't belong there. Neither.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: So we were just like a pair. Yeah.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: I was like, I was an outcast and you were
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: a not let in.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The same party. Yeah.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: So we just had each other, dude.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: There was so much fun.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: And we were just standing in the corner, just going,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: this is so fucking weird. And looking at all the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: famous people there. And, uh, and, uh, and then Chris
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: went up and he said, he took a microphone and
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: he said, um, uh, I, I, I feel like my
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: life must've been good. Cause I got all these, these,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: cause all these people here and especially the comedians who
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: came to see me. And he said, Theo Vaughn and Louie,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: Louie brought Theo here. It was like the first thing
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: out of his mouth was that I brought you there
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: and how much that meant to him. And he said
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: it like three or four times.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: It was interesting.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe he said that. It ended up meaning
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: more to him. than all these other like big shots.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: It was like really, you know, and I hope that's
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: okay for me to share.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: No, I think it is. I mean, I think it
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: just showed that he was happy that you were there,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: And that you were there.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, I couldn't believe that he said my name, but
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: it was also just that like, yeah, it was just
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: so funny that we were there, we felt uncomfortable, and
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: that he made it so we didn't feel uncomfortable. That's right.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean. Yeah.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: But, you know, Theo, you're like a bridge, you know,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: as a person. That's the way I think about you.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because when I first saw you, it's because you
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: invited me to be on here. Three years ago? Something
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: like that?
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 2002. 2022? Three or four years ago.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: And somebody said this guy wants you on a podcast.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: I hadn't done any interviews for a long time, and
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: then I was just coming out to do interviews for
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: the first time. I was pushing a special, whatever I
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: was doing. And I saw a little clip of you,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: and I was like, And I, I'm as bigoted as anybody.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: So I was like mullet red state. I don't know.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: Fucking Southern.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Mud flat.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: Fucking. Yeah.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: And without contempt, because I love every kind of American.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: So I was just like, uh, but, uh, but you
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: reached out with like, we'd really like to have him on.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, let's meet somebody new. Meet
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: somebody new, you know? And then I went and listened
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: to your standup and I just couldn't believe how funny
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: it was to me and how inventive and how beautiful,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: like just really eloquent and funny fucking shit had me
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: laughing so hard. And then we sat down and, and,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: and talked and I never met anybody like you. I
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: never met anybody that had such sort of, uh, open
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: sensitivity and such honesty. And, um, and you, you're ambidextrous. You,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: you run all over the, uh, you can be loved
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: by anybody who's willing, you know, and I've gotten to
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: know you.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: You're beautiful. I love you, man. You're a great guy.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: And, uh, And you're an example of when somebody brings
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: people together, folks get a little scared of them. You know,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: there's nothing, you're just willing. You're just, you know what
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I mean? You listen to anybody. It's the way I feel.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: But you're like a really important guy in the world
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: to me. Thanks, dude.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: I think. Yeah. Well, thank you, dude. That's nice of you. Yeah,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that. Yeah, I just appreciated you bringing
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: me over there. It's been fun to like become friends
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: and like, you know, like be able to talk to,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I don't know, you just, you're able
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: just to think without a lot of judgment of yourself.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that gives us so much information. Not
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, I don't even know
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: if it's bravery if you're just missing a governor inside
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: of yourself. That needs to be there.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: Well, we have something in common, you and me, because
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: we're born in very different parts of the world, different lives,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: but we both are broken the same way. We both
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: have the same problem.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: And when you have that, Uh, that's like a language
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: barrier crosser.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It really is.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: You just go like, oh, I get you. I get,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: I've seen this man. I've seen it.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: Believe me. You go, you really, you see it?
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know. I fucking see it, man. So,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: and you've helped me a lot. You've been very kind
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: to me and helped me a lot in ways I needed.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: And you're younger than me, but I, you know, you've
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: kind of given me guidance and helped me. But, uh,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: but that's the thing that makes people the closest is
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: that is their common, like you were fucked up the
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: same way.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. You're fucked up. I'm fucked up. Yeah.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank God. Thank God you're fucked up.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Cause if I had to look at you and think
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: that you weren't fucked up like me, I, it would
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: just break my heart.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: You know, dude.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think, um, when, yeah, like there was one
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: time you said, Oh, cause you've been through, you'd been
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: through like a lot of like stuff in your career.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: You'd had like, you know, this is when things had
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: gotten kind of crazy in your career with accusations and
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: all types of stuff.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: And, Yeah.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: And accurate accusations.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Accurate accusations.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: And whatever they were. Yeah. But you said, man, I
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: feel so free. And there was something about that to me.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: I think about that once a week. Yeah. Because I
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: think about just like the little pieces of ourselves that
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: we try to manage and operate, and we don't even
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: know what they are, and we don't even know why
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: they're in pieces. Yeah. It's like trying to put a,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: like a, some glass together so you can get a
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: clear reflection of yourself. Huh. And it's just like, fuck,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: how did this, I didn't even break this. And I'm
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: just so tired of cutting my fucking fingers trying.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: To get a look at myself.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: You know, um, trying to piece together that broken mirror
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: and cutting your fingers. That's beautiful. It's true. And, um,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: when the, when life fucks it up for you, when
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: it gets torn up, it's a relief. That's why I
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: felt free, you know? Yeah. Because I had tried to
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: manage these problems I had inside of me for so
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: many years. And I tried to feel like I was
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: like a normal person.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: Or that I was like what I thought of as
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: a good person. But I was doing shit in the
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: background of my life that I was ashamed of. I
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: was hurting other people and trying to tell myself I wasn't.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: And, you know, those.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: things on the edge, like using another person, but you
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: got their permission first, you're still using another person. You're
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: not being with them. You're using them. That took me
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: a long time to learn about that stuff. But when
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: you're doing that stuff and creating more and more problems,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: they just keep getting bigger and bigger. And then the
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: worst thing is if you're having a good life, that's
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: successful because you're feeling this like incredible rift between like,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: the way you're representing yourself and who you really are.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: And it's getting really, and I used to try, I
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: think some of the early versions of talking on stage
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: really honestly were me trying to get out and say, I'm,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm, I'm corrupt. I want everybody to know it.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Right. I'm a corrupt file. Yeah. And, um, a corrupt file. Yeah.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: And, uh, but all of that is like, you can't
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: manage it. And so when you're in front of the
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: world and that's going on inside of you, it's just
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: like a real, it's real hell. And, uh, So when it,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: and also when you are successful, because we live in
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: America and there's like, you're taught, it's a work, working community.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: Like you got to succeed. So when you're succeeding, you
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: believe it's a perfect good. Everything you're getting is important, right?
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: You're getting stature, you're getting work, you're getting money, importance.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: People are saying good things about you. These things, you
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: just believe that after a while you need those things. Anyway,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: when life comes along and just fucking by the grace
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: of my own fucking mistakes, my own fuck ups, they
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: all came back and took everything away from me. And
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: it was the most thing I was most afraid of
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: in the whole world. And it happened. The scariest possible thing.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: And it happened. Like now people know about me. They know,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: they like deeply know and not perfectly either. Like there's,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Because it's fantastical fame world.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: So they hear their own version and I'm sitting there
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: going like, wait, no, it's not quite like that. And
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: all the, it's like the worst thing that could happen happens.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: And you lose everything you were working for and you,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: the people you hurt, everybody knows about it now. And
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: also people who love you are hurt by it. I
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: hurt a lot of people who love me by, by
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: mismanaging that and letting and, and willfully becoming big enough.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: as a famous person, that the downfall hurt a lot
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: of people, people I love. So it was like unbearable. Fuck.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: And... Yeah, I remember you saying on stage one time,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: and I'll let you finish your thought. Am I messing
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: up by interrupting you?
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, Theo.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: Go. I remember you saying one time I was trying
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: to find a flight to somewhere, but every flight was
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: landed on Earth.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: It was all.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: places to other places on earth.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: And it was so unmanageable. Yeah.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: There was no, I didn't feel safe anywhere in the world.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: And I was full of a lot of self pity.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: I was full of a lot of anger too. And
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: also I just didn't feel safe in the world. Like
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: I also didn't feel safe inside my own head anymore.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: And it was kind of like, fuck, that's craziest. That's
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing. You can kind of handle anything except
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: for the inside of your own head when that gets,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, because, I live in a world where,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: like I said before, like people coalesce, they come together
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: and that's our strength. So when you get ejected, love
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: for yourself becomes antisocial.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: Like sitting there going like, I hope I'm a good person.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: And most people's mistakes when people are, get fucked up
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: the way that I had, it's because of a low
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: self-esteem problem to begin with. So, um.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: So you just can't, it's just tandem. Yeah. It's like.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You're just sitting there and you're trying to like,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: feel something good about yourself. It's difficult. And so it
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: was just very overwhelming. And, um, but the losses that I,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: like I had spent, like, I don't know, I was,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: I wasn't like an overnight success. You know, I was
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: in my forties when I got really famous and I grew,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: I built to it very gradually.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: I worked really hard.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot. Um, I got it my own
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: TV show. Cause I'd learned how to make a TV
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: show from the ground up. Like I was a cameraman
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: at a local access cable station. And then now I
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: was a director and star and I'd, I'd met so
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: many people and had so many affiliations and, and, and, uh,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: a tapestry of, uh, a life, a career. And I
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: remember thinking of it, like all like tentacles coming off
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: the back of my head, connecting.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: Me with the world.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: And when this thing happened, it was like someone twisted
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: all of them into like a braid and put their
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: foot on the back of my head and just pulled
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: out all the wires. And all of a sudden I
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: had no, nobody likes me. Nobody, everybody, you know, I
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: can't talk to nobody. Nobody can, everybody's afraid of me.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: And I was just spinning. It was really wild. But
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: now I look at that, that thing as like a
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: beautiful thing. It's like, I look at that as like
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: God's hands, you know? or whatever you want to call it,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: that that was just like a good, caring thing that said, dude,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: you need to stop. You need to stop. You need
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: out of all this. And that's, for me, it was great.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: Not for other people in my life. Some people, it
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: was hard for them.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I can certainly imagine that. Yeah. I think
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: it's scary. I think having like a different.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I, I mean, I've run it, like I've
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: had a lot of the same issues in my life
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: with just like affection and those sorts of things and
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: trying to like never having like any coaching on that
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: and just having severe, like, and then you start to
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: figure it out all yourself and you make these crazy, like, um,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: like this crazy Tetris of what it's all supposed to
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: be and how love is. And like, and then it's
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: also like, um, I'd be a, like, but my low
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: self worth, I was always trying to fill it with like, um,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: things that weren't re just, just impossibility. And then, I mean,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: for me, I got into watching porn and that became
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: this crazy space. It's like never ending thing. I missed
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: my twenties cause I was watching porn. You know, it's
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: like same.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: I was a young kid, like really obsessed with stuff
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: that put me in a dark room when I should
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: have been out in the sunlight.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: And, uh, it twisted around my set and it was,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: that was all up behind this thing of wanting, just wanting,
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: someone lovely and female to look at me and, and
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: tell me I'm okay.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: And tell me that I'm acceptable and even more so
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: and lovable.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: And I got, I had.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: Such a strange, uh, twisted trip to that moment.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I never really quite learned it. And that's my,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: that's my shit.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: But, but, uh, those things when you're a kid, they're, they're,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: they're a pain. And then when you get to be
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: a grownup with a life and you have effect on
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: other people, it starts becoming a problem for other people. So, um,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: But I think that if I hadn't lost all of that,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: it just would have gotten worse. Because that's why I
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: felt free when I said that to you. Because I
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: could see the real shape of the world. And I
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: could see that nothing I had, that you can't take
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: anything away from me that's really mine. And that I
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: realized I didn't have much that was worth having. I
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: had my family, and that's private. That's a different thing
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: for me. But I realized I need to start making
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: a real treasure chest that has shit in it.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: That's valuable.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: That's valuable. I need to stop thinking about why these
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: people turn their backs on me and ask myself, yeah,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: why did they?
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: Like, were you a good friend to them?
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: Who are you useful to in this world? Like that's
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: where I started was when I wanted to try to
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: reach out and feel less isolated was who can I
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: be of use to? And I started to try to,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: But what was easy to let go of was like fame,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: money and connection and red carpets. That was easy. That
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: was easy. I don't want that back.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, it seems like a fucking nightmare.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: It's shit. It's nothing. Work is different. And what we
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: do is public. So it's like the hard thing was like,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: I wish I was a carpenter. I could just start
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: making chairs again. I love standup comedy. I love it.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: It's my life. I love it so much. And it's
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: given me so much. And the other thing that happened
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: too was that When a hard thing that happens to
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: you that feels like an all, all encompassing thing, when
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: you live with it every day, you go to sleep going,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: I can't do this. I went to sleep many nights going, I,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: my days are numbered. I just can't handle this. This
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: is more than I can handle. But then I wake
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: up the next day and I go, all right, I'm
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: still here. It's still here. It's like a sirens blaring
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: and it's not stopping. And at some point you just
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: got to make coffee and talk a little louder or
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: whatever you got to, you know, it was like, all right,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: this is life now.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: And I started to have to look at it and
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: go like, well, everybody doesn't hate me. It's just not true.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: And there's people that love me and they're reaching out
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: to me and I should, I should take their hand.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't just sit there and be a little victim,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: you know? And, uh, so after like, uh, what felt
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: like a terribly long time of just feeling hated by everybody.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: I started to see people coming up on the street
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: and saying, where are you?
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: Where are you?
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: We want to see you. And I thought, I want
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: to start working again. To me, work was like the thing.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: I love it. I know I have value there. So
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: I started working again. And then it was really hard
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: because I lost a lot of friends for starting again.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: That's crazy to me.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: It was, well, it was, everyone was, I used to
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: react to all of this with a lot of, anger
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: and confusion, but I started to, uh, do psychedelic drug
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: therapy and see that everyone was acting in their own
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: needs and everyone is doing what they need to do.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: And life is really hard for everybody. It's really hard.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: And these times have been really hard for everybody. The
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: thing that ripped my life in half had been ripping
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: lives around all over the world and everybody was dealing
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: in some people were so scared. That what happened to
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: me would happen to them. And, you know, it was
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff going on. So I had to
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: see that.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: And, uh, but I also saw that a lot of
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: people that now knew about me were like, what do
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: you got? And I thought I'm willing and I'll get,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: I was getting shit for trying again, but I'm like,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: that's okay. It's okay. I don't, my, my rule with
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: that whole thing now is I don't take part in
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: it and I don't interfere with it. there's a thing
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: about me. I became a symbol for something, which is
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: on me because I, I made a trillion carbon copies
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: of myself and threw them out of a helicopter and said,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: think whatever you want about me. So when people started
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: to think bad things about me, that's how they use
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: this image. And that's, I can't go around the world
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: and fix that. I can't make people that are mad
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: at me, not mad.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: At me anymore.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: I can't like, uh, I can't, Confront this thing on
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: a global level because I'm not a globe.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: I'm one guy.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: And trying to live that way was what got me
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: in trouble in the first place. And the damage is
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: done and I can't fix that. But what I can
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: do is be a good man to my friends on
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: a one-to-one. I can shake one hand at a time.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: I can be a good father and I can take
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: care of myself. I can constantly try to revise what
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: I think is right and wrong, not depend on it.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: but she's keep asking myself cause I thought I was
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: a good guy and a lot of moments where I
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't and I have to go back and go, that
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't okay. And try to make amends when I get
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: an opportunity. And it was really confusing to do all that.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, you can cut it out if you
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: don't want it set on the air, but you, you,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: you told me about this program. You told me about
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: SLAA and about, about a 12 step approach to what
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: I was suffering from.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: And, uh, Yeah, I was so amazed that you didn't
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: have some of the familiarity with it.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: I never heard of it, and I didn't think it
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: was for.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: Me at all.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: You told me about it, and I was like, yeah,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: that's not for me.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: And you've become such a role model to me through
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: that program, man. You've become somebody that when you talk,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: I listen. When you want to know how I feel,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: I know you mean it. When you like... Yeah, man,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've become like just a real role model
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: to me. You've become somebody that I aspire to be
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: able to get through some of the problems that I
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: have because I've seen you get through them, man.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: Well, look at that, Theo, because you brought me into
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: this shit. So it's like if you reach out to
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: somebody that's on the outside and take their hand and
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: pull them in, they can end up teaching you something.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: And it's the same for me because like when we
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: were– I loved having you– as I wouldn't have gone
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: into it if I didn't know somebody. And then by
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: the way, you took me behind this curtain. I was like,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: I know a bunch of these guys. I had no idea,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: but I remember like, I mean, to get a specific
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: for a second, there was one point in my life
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: where during, when I got into this program where I
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: was like in what we call withdrawal. So I was
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: like this crazy idea to me, don't have sexual release
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: for several months in a row. What like, I mean,
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: since I first started, fucking came clear liquid yeah uh
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: i've done it every day oh yeah and then what
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: that did to the relationships of my life and my
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: inability to feel real feelings and then the the kind
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: of reckless behavior and the things i i did with
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: other people that came out um But there was a
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: point where I was like, okay, so just don't, like
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: don't at all. And the thing I loved about it,
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: it's like a time that's so important.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: I remember when you were doing that, I was like, dang. Yeah,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: because I would call you. This dude's going deep. Yeah,
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: and you're like, how long has it been?
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: And I'd say like two months since I jerked off.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: And you would go, what's it like out there, man?
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: And when you said that, like I think about that
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: all the time. What's it like out there, man? It
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: was like I'm an astronaut who cut from the court
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: and I'm just out there. And that's what it started
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: to feel like. I got out of the gravitational pull.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: I got out of the cycle. Because every time you
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: want something and you get it, you just go back
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: to square one. You keep going back to just nothing.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's my cycle. It's just been like for years
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: I was texting women, right? And like, let's meet up sometime.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: And we would never meet up, right? And it got
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: to a certain point in certain years. I didn't even
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: know if we knew who each other were anymore. Right.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: But we would both. I meet almost every day. Should
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: we meet up this week?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, for years, but just little moments of trying
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: to get approval. Right. Yes. And then going back to like,
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: and the group isn't like, everybody's not like everybody may,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: maybe people have some perversion and stuff, but a lot
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: of it's just like kind of pornography, intimacy disorders, like
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: inability to connect. It's not like, well, it's huge.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, when you do the steps, you learn what, how
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: you got to where you are and you learn what, what,
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: in your history made you this way yeah and you
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: get some guidelines for trying to undo it and the
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: thing about going through withdrawal is that by not pressing
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: the reset button you go to a new place every
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: day every day you don't do it you're in a
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: new place you feel new feelings and i started realizing
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: that my feelings my actual emotions were coming online for
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: the first time really in my life. And I saw
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: everything really differently. And I saw that everything that had
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: happened with me was because of me. And by the way,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: that's great news because that means you could do something
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: And that everyone else is doing what they have to do.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: And so I had to start like being a man.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: About it. And I can't like prove that to the world. Right.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: And I can't like do, you know, a big gesture.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: I can just do it in my private life. I
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: can talk to you about it. People can see this, whatever.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I have mixed feelings about it. It scares
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: the shit out of me to talk about it.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: But, and that had its own thing. Like I kept thinking,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: I have to fix this. I have to fix this reputation.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: I have to go back to where people have at
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: least a neutral feeling about me. And I realized I
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: just can't. I just can't. I, I, and also for
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: some people, the kind of people I would probably would
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: want to know it's happened naturally.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: Right. And dude, I was shocked whenever we would hang
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: out that you thought so many people thought that you
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: were like, like such a pariah or something. I was like, dude, Louie,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: like people care, but they don't care that way.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: No, I'm the last one who gives a shit.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: Right. And not even in a bad way, but like,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't even seem like that bad of a guy.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Like, Well, I don't know. Some,
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: for some people I am. That's a good point. Sorry. But, but,
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: but those, no, it's okay. Those, those for, for some
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: people I'm, uh, there's a, there's a, you're a boogeyman.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: And that's the way that is. And it's like, if
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: I did a movie, uh, for Marvel and now I'm
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: on a McDonald's cup, you can still get, and I
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: can't really change that. I, I made the movie. I,
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: I did that. So, and maybe it's good for those
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: people in some way. I don't know, but, uh, but,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: and I don't like the way it affects people in
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: my life and my family. That's hard. That's what I
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: still carry. And, uh, And I can't, but I'm responsible
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: And what it helps me, my past and the way
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: it's still present in the air around me helps me
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: because my life was completely unmanageable and I had no
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: power to change it. And now I've changed it hugely.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: My life is so different now. I have real love
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: in my life and, but I need to remember like
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: where I was, you know? And I also need to
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: remember what is important, you know? So, so I'm, you know,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: and I'm writing, I, I, I'm writing novels because I,
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: I don't jerk off every 15 minutes. It's really all
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: it is. And I don't look, I don't look at
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: the phone because for a long time, the phone was
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: a gun pointing directly at my face. So I completely
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: extricated myself from social media and from scrolling. I haven't
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: scrolled in. I mean, it's a, it's a guilty pleasure
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: about once every month I'll go and look, uh, But
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: the chronic looking I had to, it would have killed
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: me to keep looking at it. So I got, I'm
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: so lucky what happened to me because of the, what
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: I was ejected out of. And also the culture, since
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: this happened with me in 2017, the world has gone
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: completely insane. And I've just been watching, like I haven't
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: had to comment about it. I haven't had to pick
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: a side. I've just been sitting back going like, wow,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: you guys are, I mean, like, I'm on the bottom
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: of the sea, but I look up and I see,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: you know, like, there's still a full-on fucking battleship royale
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: up there. And once in a while, I see a body, like,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: a blue body float down, and I'm like, hey, man,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: I remember you.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: And he's like, hey.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: And we're all collecting, and there's more people down here
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: now than there was up there. And it's quiet down here.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: You know, and there's fish and stuff.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all right.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. Dude, it is like... I don't know,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: having a support group and being able to go to
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: meetings and share what's going on, listen to somebody else
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: say something that has unlocked something in you that you
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: never could have unlocked. Yeah. Fuck.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: It's huge.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's unbelievable. It's like
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: you could spend the rest of your life trying to
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: figure that out, and then suddenly somebody just helped you
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: get to a new place.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: One thing I love about meetings is there's this structure
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: to these meetings that like in any other 12 step
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: program where you get three minutes to share.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: And the regiment of that, it's like perfect. It's kind
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: of like the way baseball is perfect. Like someone figured
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: out just the right amount of feet to make the,
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: you know, that, that, that, that the throw to first
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: is always close.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: 12 step meetings have like this perfect, this three minutes
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: and there's a spiritual timekeeper, a guy who just says
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: at when you're one minute away from finishing, it says
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: one minute, And you acknowledge it, you know, thank you
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: one minute, right? There's that thing. But in two minutes,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: you can get really lost in what a guy is saying.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: And you get to have this moment where like a
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: guy is going like, you know, I keep lighter fluid
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: under my pillow because of the days that my father
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: used to come to my room and I'd want to
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: burn him alive.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you one minute.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: And I like these little interruptions because it reminds you, yeah,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: you're in your shit, but– Wrap it up. There's other
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: guys waiting to talk and the world's going around and it's,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: you know, that was a long time ago, man. Get
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: over it. I'm glad you're sharing it, but you only
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: get three minutes.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. It's Monday, brother. Yeah. That sounds like a
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: fucking Thursday show. Yeah.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: I need to check in some shit about what I
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: did today, you know?
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: Oh dude. Yeah. Even things like, I mean, I was
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: looking at pornography the other day, just being able to
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: like text somebody and say that to him, you know,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: just like, and then just like, how many times do
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to this feeling of after
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: I look at pornography, I just feel like empty, you know,
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: or I just don't feel like myself the next day.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: That's been the biggest thing that helped change it for
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: me is like noticing that like the next day, I
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: don't feel like myself. I feel like I'm a little scattered.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like I still need to recover from something.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: I still need to like like put my aura back
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: together a little bit. Yeah.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: Cause you ran away into pornography. So when you, when you,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: you feel you get, it's like you froze yourself and
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: the next day you start to thaw and that's uncomfortable.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: It's like feeling your leg coming back to, you know,
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: after falling asleep, it's, it's tingles and it's bad. It's
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: a bad feeling. You want to be in one or
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: the other, you know? So it is, it's hard. The
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: hard thing about being in recovery from addiction, something like
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: what we have is that you can look at something
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: like pornography and uh, but it's, you're aware now.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: So, you know, there's a cost to it. Yeah.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a cost, but that's, but thank God
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: because you get so much of life back and being
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: able to tell another guy, like I'm, I'm doing this
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: because there's a lot of shame involved with sex and love.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: Like all this kind of thing. It's when, so when
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: you tell somebody that I'm an alcoholic, people have a
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: lot of sympathy for that. Yeah. This one's a little tougher.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: So you really need the group because these are a
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of guys who get it. And so when you
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: tell them, um, I'm struggling not to do this. The
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: genius of that is just that someone else knows it now.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: That's all.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: It's too much for you to carry. At some point
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: for anybody who's an addict or not, life got to
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: be too much to handle. It just was overwhelming. So
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: you found a way to shift away from it. And
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: thank God you did. Like, thank God I had that
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid. I don't think I could
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: have handled life without this thing that was right there
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: to soothe.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I didn't have that thing, I mean, I
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: found pornography, and then when I would get home, I
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: would go. I would look at pornography and stuff like
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: that because it was a way to make myself feel good.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: It was like I felt so horrible. I didn't even
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: know I felt so horrible about myself. I just felt
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: like a fucking cavern. I felt like– I mean, I
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: felt– I didn't even want to impose myself on people
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: because I didn't– I don't know. I just, nobody had
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: time for me.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: And so it made me think that I wasn't worth
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: people's time. So I always just felt like I just
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: couldn't say what I needed to say. I just didn't
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: want to waste your time. I didn't want to waste
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: your time because you would see that I was a waste.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: Like if I could just, how old were you? Probably 10, 11.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, imagine a 10 year old kid, like look
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: at a 10 year old kid's face and imagine that
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: he feels like a cavern inside. That's a hard thing
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: to carry. And so you take on this thing that,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: That helps you just simplify life.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: I do this. I, I search, I search, I push,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: I push, I get to ecstasy. I'm calm.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: Right. And then it's homeostasis. It regulates.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: It's just regulating. Right. And when you, if you're exposed
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: to sex early in life, which I was in a
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: way that was, yeah, you get you, that's it. That's it.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: That's what you got. And then later in life, when
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: your feelings are supposed to be developing, they're, they're still
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: under this muffle thing. So they're not developing properly and you,
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: and you're ashamed of what you're doing. Yeah. But when you,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: the thing about a fellowship, it's just so simple. It's
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: not God. It's not something that's better than you. It's
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: a bunch of guys who just have the same problem
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: and you're able to just go, you know, I'm having
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: this problem. They go, yeah, I get it. They don't
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: give you a solution. They just go, I know it
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: too now. And you go like, now I got two
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: souls to carry this problem. And I'm there for him
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: when he needs that.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: And that just makes it a tiny bit easier so
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: that you can go to the alternative, which is why
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: do I do this thing? It's because I feel like
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: a cavern. And the detaching from the behavior and stopping
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: the thing I couldn't stop doing gave me the opportunity
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: to go, what's in that cave? What's in that? Is
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: there something in that that's worthwhile? How bad is it?
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: what's wrong with the cave? Is it that I'm alone
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: in there? Am I alone in there? Uh, it gave
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: me the courage to sit in the cave alone and
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: take a look around and go like, you know, with
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: a flashlight, man, there's like crystals on the roof. It's
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: fucking cool in here. You know, how'd I get in here?
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: There is a, there's a little, there's a little door.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: Where does that go? And starting to really be okay with,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just here.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: I'm in here.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: And then a feeling comes that the kind of things
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: I used to run from, you know, like deep sadness.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: I miss my mom, something like that. I won't just
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: have it. I just want to have it now. I
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: just want to have it. And I've got a new habit,
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: which is that when I get that, huh, that used
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: to lead to an addictive moment. When I get that, ah,
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: I know that if I pull away from it, it
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: gets worse. It actually only hurts if I pull away.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: But if I get up to it and I go,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: what do you got? And I see colors and I
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: see beautiful things, you know, and that's the potential is to,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: is to, Welcome every feeling. And then you don't want out.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: And I love my life so much now that the
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: last thing I want to do is gray it out with.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: With a kind of chronic sexual half release fake thing.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: Watching a sad person on a video in a weirdly
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: lit room and I'm in it.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: I just don't.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: Come on, buddy. And I don't even know who I'm
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: cheering for when I was in pornography. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: Which team are you on?
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, ah, tie. Let's just have
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: a tie. Yeah. Um, but, oh dude. Yeah. It's like, uh, oh,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: that's sedative and it's just a full body sedative. But yeah,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: I would, um, yeah, I didn't have it. It, it,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: it marred really my ability to make a lot of
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: connections because like, I'll even notice still in my life
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: and I still have, I still need to go through
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: my steps again. I need to check in with my
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: sponsor today, but, um, Like if I'm face to face
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: with a woman and they say something nice about me,
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: I can't stay there for a second. Really? I cannot.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: Like even a woman looking at me, I just have to.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: What happens? What makes you run away from it?
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: Inside of me it feels fucking like it almost feels
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: like a dirty electricity comes inside of me or just
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: like shows up at the front of me.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: It's a power. It's a weird electronic. It really is
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: like touching a third rail.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: Love and sex are both extremely powerful and they ain't
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: all good. It's what I learned after like months of
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: not jerking off. And then I decided, I talked to
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: my sponsors, like it's time to try.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I remember that big weekend. We were all excited.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: I think I bought, I bought one of those Amish fireplaces.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: I just feel some of the distance out there. But
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: weren't you out of town?
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody, you had to be up in New York somewhere,
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: weren't you? You had to be in the totality of
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: my first jerk off. Like you had to be in
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: that one stripe.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: That's right. In the Island.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: Um, I was in, I was, I was out in
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: Shelter Island and, um, and I said, okay, you're going
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: to visit this and you're not doing this for pleasure.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: You're doing this to visit. You're going to go to
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: the country you left. And I did it. And it
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: was like an electrical shock. It wasn't like this pure pleasure.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: And I realized that's what it's always been like. But
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: I've been putting like wet towels and asbestos and shit
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: over my whole life so that I could barely feel it.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: So I had to really, really rub hard and with
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: the most penetrating fucked up thoughts in order to find it.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: And I've been doing it since I was a kid.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I can't believe I felt that as
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: a kid, as a child.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. Because I really felt its raw strength again.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: And I said, I don't, my, my little conversation I
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: have in my head with this presence I call Wally,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: it's just my own thing. And I said, I don't,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: after I did it, after I came, I said, that's
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: no joke. And Wally said, no, it's not. And I said,
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: I think I need some rules. I should not go
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: there alone very often. And I should never go there without,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: with somebody who I don't trust. And Wally said, that
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: sounds smart, kid. And that's what I've been living by.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: I've been respecting sex as a very hot fire. That's
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: beyond electricity. Your feelings are, your feelings are fires that
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: you can sit by and warm yourself. But sex is
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: electricity that you have to deal with, with real discipline
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: and thoughtfulness. And, uh, and so is love because that's
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: a two way thing. You've got somebody else involved. Um,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: And the other thing that the steps did was looking
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: at my life, looking at, really looking at it. And
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: I was writing down my history of my sex life,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: you know, from, it was the first assignment I was given.
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: And I got to like, I've blown up my life
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: like twice really. And the first time I blew up
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: my life, I looked at that moment, I was writing
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: it and I yelled onto the paper. I said, stop
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: to myself, you gotta stop. And I felt this huge
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: remorse because I realized I can't hear it. He can't
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: hear it. That happened. I can't change it.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: But then I heard a voice say, please stop. And
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: I realized it's my future self whose life kept getting wrecked.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: And he says, please stop. And I'm like, I can
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: hear him. I can fucking hear that guy. Wow. And
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: I can actually, I'm in this moment. but I thought, yeah,
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: but I can't, I'm not strong enough.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: And I.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: Asked the universe to, I just said, somebody fucking help me.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: Cause I want to live.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: I want to really live my life. And, uh, that
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: was a big moment for me. So powerful. I can
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: hear that guy now saying, thank you, dude. And please
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: keep it going. Cause you could still, you have to
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: keep going in this better direction. So, That's all just
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: from this stupid 12 step thing that you get. It's
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: like a DMV fill out thing. Anybody can do it.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: When you go to these SLA meetings, they're like on
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: zoom and stuff. There's like a hundred dudes on every meeting.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: It's like, and a lot of it is young guys
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: in like their twenties, some are 19 who can't, who
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: are addicted to porn because they were born into a
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: world where they're being encouraged to go to their phone
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: for love and acceptance and power and money. And that's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: where they find sex. And it's all addictive. They've turned
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: every human endeavor into an addictive act. And these kids
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: are so overwhelmed by it.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: Everything.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: The most important ones.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: Well, some of the things that I've learned are, I mean, well,
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: the crazy part is, so say I'm sitting there, I'm
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: jerking off, and then there's some, just because I'm jerking
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: off on my phone, some county out in Iowa, they're
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: losing water Uh, because they're having to run a data center.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: That's flaring up a little icon. That's right. So now
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: some kid can't even take a hot shower because some other,
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: cause you just need a little 40 year old kid
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: won't stop jerking off somewhere in the distance.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: Um, oh, it's unbelievable.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, and here's one of the crazy things that
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: we had a lady that came on who, who told
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: us about Pornhub and a lot of these sites, a
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: lot of the, uh, content on there isn't even consensual.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: Right, of course.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: So now you start to realize, oh, I'm jerking off
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: to crime. Yes. I'm jerking off to possible sexual crime.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: Like they found like 70% of it was non-consensual. This lady,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: Lila McElwain is her name. She came on. It was
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: fascinating to learn about it.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're jerking off to anything on that site,
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: you're supporting that. Even if the thing you're watching is consensual,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: it's all the money is going into the same pot.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: It's financing this shit that's not consensual.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: And, and then also one great thing about being in
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: the program and I've never really talked about it this way.
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: I've talked about it with one other comedian on here actually, um,
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: is that there's, we have a buddy in the program
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: named Steve and he's awesome. And he runs a program
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: called Valor and this isn't really an advertisement for it, but, um,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: We do free ads for the Valor on the podcast,
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: and it's a lot of young dudes in there. And
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: I'm in some of the meetings, and it's a lot
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: of dudes in there who are just going to– who
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: are getting help.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's really hard to unlearn this shit, and
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: it does make you– it gets dangerous because it does
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: make you an unthoughtful person. That's the way I got
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: into the trouble that I got into because I wasn't
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: stopping and thinking. I was like so blinded by what
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: I wanted. That I didn't, and I would just get
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: this basic feeling of like, this is okay. I would
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: tell myself that, but I wasn't stopping and thinking. And
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: I just have so many, you know, like when you're
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: in a, if you have a power boat and you're
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: pulling water skiers or people on a tube, that kind
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: of boat has a elaborate system of ignition.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: So that you don't chew somebody up with the propeller.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: So like when someone's in the water, you turn the
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: ignition off. And when you turn the ignition on, it
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: beeps really loud before you start the motor.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: And that's before you go in gear. You have all
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: these movements before you're harming. And that gives everyone a chance. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: So I got all these beeps and triggers in my
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: life now. Like especially if I'm looking at a moment
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: of ecstasy, if I'm looking at something that's going to
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: make me feel euphoric. I go, you might be being
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: selfish right now. Like that's an automatic thought to me now.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: Like you might, who's, who is someone paying for this?
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: Is someone looking like they're okay when they're not? Is
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: somebody saying yes when it was tough for them to
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: get there? Can you just wait a second? Can you
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: cool off? Can you take a breath? Cause you might
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: be going too fast. You might be so desperate to
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: get this moment. That's going to give you that assuagement,
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: that kind of like I'm okay feeling that you're not
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: thinking you're not in, you're not in it. You're not
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: in the room with somebody. You're not in the room
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: with yourself. Even you're not, you're hurting yourself. You're using
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: yourself too. So that's new for me. That's new. And, and,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: and it's become an installed part of me.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: So.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: I just move slower and, uh, that life has a speed.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: And if you can get on the same track with it,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: you're okay. Like the thing I get from like, I,
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: every morning I look at the sky, I just look
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: at the sky and, and the world and nature. And
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: I just, the, the, there, there's a message I keep getting,
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: which is that you're meant to be here. You're designed
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: to be here. You don't even have to look at
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: it as like some conscious being made you. It's just
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: that you're of this earth. At this time.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: So chances are you match if you're willing to be
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: in it the way, as long as you're willing to
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: be in reality, the way things really are, accepting what's
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: not there. And because we're human, going for it a little,
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: trying a little, trying to make things happen. I think
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: that the universe, when we fuck around to find out,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: goes like.
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: Huh, nice.
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nice. I like this motherfucker.
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: And so there's a little, there's an edge there that
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: you want to be at. Where you're just like, I'm here,
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: which means I belong here and everything that happens will
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: basically be okay with me if I really take it
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: in as reality. And I don't try to just like
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: think my way out of it. But I'm a clever
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: little fucking monkey and I want to try some shit too,
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: you know. And it means I'll fall.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: You know, try to try only as high as the
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: fall won't break you. When you get up really, really
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: crazy high in life.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: You're too high.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: Your Madison square garden and all this kind of crazy
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: shit that I was doing. It's like the fall will
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: kill you. And, uh, cause it's not a human height.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: It's not human. And there's no oxygen up there and
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: there's no drag on your wings and it's lonely and
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have it. It's not affected by your feelings anymore.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: It's just this other thing. But when I went back
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: to work and I was like, I'm doing clubs again,
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: how's that going to feel? And I'm sitting in the
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: Funny Bone in St.
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: Louis.
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: And the Coke, the machine that sends Coke to the
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: bar is next to my head.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: And there's the smell of chicken wings and pizza. And
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: I'm doing retail comedy. I was happy as fuck. I
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: was so happy to be telling the jokes to people
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: whose faces I could see and whose admission prices, they're
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: giving that to me as a... as a gift and
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: they're going home happy. And I got back to that
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: level of comedy and it was really beautiful. That's where
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: I live now. I mean, I do the theaters cause
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: I'm still a fucking pig. I still want, I still
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: like it, but some of them are nice too. Some
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: of them are nice. The Ryman in Nashville. Beautiful.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to come over there. Well, dude, I just
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: knew I came over to your place and you were
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: making art and you were sculpting and sending me stuff.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: And then you sat me down one time with a
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: friend when I was over there and she had made
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: something and you were reviewing it or she was reviewing
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: a project you had made. It was like some type
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: of a cartoon, I believe. It was a silent film.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a movie that I was starting to make
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: and we were making an animatic with charcoal.
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just fascinating. I'm like, oh, this dude
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: is a fucking artist, man. And that's when I realized, oh,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: this guy really like, he likes being an artist, you know? Yeah.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: It's just feels good. It's just fun.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: And if you can share this stuff.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: It's great. And it was just, yeah, it was, it
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: was great. And then you said this and I was like, wow,
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: this dude's really in his spot. But yeah, I agree, man.
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: Having that, like having that, that like need for attention
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: from women or having, watching pornography or watching porno and stuff.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: It's taken a lot of things, moments in my life.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I was on one time I was on
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: a vacation and, and with, with, uh, with my girlfriend
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: instead of like spending time, I was like, like texting
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: some other woman or I was like watching pornography. And
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: it took us out of this great weekend where we're
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: supposed to. And it's like, and that call, it's like,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I can never like get that right in
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: a way, you know?
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: But it's, it's understandable because you had that feeling that
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: if you're with somebody, you're too much for them. You're
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: scared to be alone with her.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: You're scared. So you're finding a way, you're finding a
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: way to not be in the room. Yeah, and it's
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: just that old pattern, though, that if I don't try
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 1: and get it under control, if I don't try to
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: do better. And I think even this year has been
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: tough for me. It's just like, yeah, I just feel
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: like work's gotten busy, and it just makes me scared
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: kind of a little bit. And it's like, you know,
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: and then popularity makes you scared, and that's kind of scary. Yeah,
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: it should be scary. And then you're just like looking
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: at yourself, and you're just like, what am I even–
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: you're like– I can't even feel like I can't even,
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: the controls feel far from my hand sometimes. Not like
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: I'm doing crazy stuff or anything, but just like, you know,
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: I just, I don't know.
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: No, it's, it is scary and it should be. That's
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: the thing is it's like another electricity. You got to
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: respect it. It's not, it's not a small thing being
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: famous and it can go bad and it's, it's your
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: fault because you got into it. Yeah. But that's, I
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's also a human thing to want to
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: share your work and want to be out there, you know?
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: But once, when, when it goes bad, you get in
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: this predicament of like, I want to go to each
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: person's house and tell them what really happened and what,
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: you know, the little things that are, that aren't in
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: the way that's, you know, and that's just never going
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: to happen. Yeah. And at this point with all, to me,
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: I just want to get, I just, I just want
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: to live and I want to, like, I haven't talked
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: about this the way I'm talking about it to you.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: We can take it out if you want. It's scary.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about it after.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. But.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: There's so many times where I just want to come
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: out and tell people like, I'm fucking sorry. I'm really sorry.
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: I hurt people.
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: And I feel, I've felt like.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: In the way that it was so hard to take
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: all of that at once, that much anger once, it's like,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: I just don't have a sorry that covers it. And so,
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: and I don't have only one feeling. Sorry is not
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: the only feeling I have. And so I don't want
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: to say something, And I'm scared of the way that I,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: anything I say can be used by other people. There's
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: all kinds of fears that come up and I'm very
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: raw in that space.
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: But that's all because I made this, I'm making these
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: choices to stay in this and it's because I love
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: the work and I want to share it. So I
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: guess like I really wish there was like, I could
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: have a simple kind of watershed where I can say
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: just yes to everything that happened and I'm sorry.
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: I really am.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: And I'm just trying to do better, and I don't
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: think I can prove that to everybody because it's a
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: private thing. It's a one-to-one man thing. It's not a
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: famous guy act. Right. But I got work that I
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: want to share with people.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: I have work that I think is worthy. And there,
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like, if you don't like it, you don't like it.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: That's always okay with me. When I'm on stage and
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: I'm talking and people aren't accepting it, like, oh, that's okay.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: That's fucking– Yeah, that's fine.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, man. And I don't, nobody owes me nothing.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: I'll just, I'm trying. We'll see what happens.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm kind of like in a weird way. Like,
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: I know this sounds maybe crazy to say. It's almost like, well,
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: I think so many of us probably needed, we needed
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: a guy like you to have some of the same
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: problem because you have such an ability to look at
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: things and kind of like examine them. And it's like,
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: we needed an astronaut. Like, I know it sounds crazy.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: But it's like we needed like a Neil Armstrong like
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: you to walk out there and report what you're feeling
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: under your feet because it's like so many people are
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: struggling and you say things, dude, that like– I mean
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: the rest of us just cannot put it into words
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: and it's just such a gift that you have.
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: Well, it's been a little bit painful because– I know
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 2: it has. Well, because I felt that when it happened. Like, hey,
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: this is an opportunity. I can tell people what this
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: is like and I can really– I can come back
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: with something great to say. But I just couldn't. Like
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't do it. I was too scared and
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: I was too fighting for my life and also worried
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: about other people in my life. Everything I say affects
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: people that love me. I know that. And people that
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: I'm related to. And I can't just decide like what's
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: going to fix it. And also I'm completely confused by it.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: I still live with this thing. Every day. It's still
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: part of my everyday life. It still imposes limits on
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: me every day. And I still don't know what to
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: do about it. I really don't. It's really confusing. But
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 2: so I wish I could feel like I'm like a
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: shitty astronaut. I'm like an astronaut who's not cut. They
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: sent the I'm I'm what's his name? Don Knotts. I
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: think he did an astronaut one, right?
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: If he didn't, he should have.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there it is. Yeah, the reluctant astronaut. That's me. Yeah,
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: it's no good. And I'm Gus Grissom. I blew the hatch.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: And I was just too weak, man. And I flailed
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 2: through it. I said some things out of confused anger
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: because I am who I am on stage. I'm pretty
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: raw up there. So I'm not vetting what I say.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not careful about it.
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, but you, you may be the reluctant astronaut,
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: but I think it's like what we all are. It's like,
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: we all just want to try and like figure out
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: whatever the truest stuff that's going on inside of us.
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the part that I think you report back. Like,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, well.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: Life will, uh, you will never choose the hard road
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: for yourself. Never. And you're the choices you make in
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: life are a combination of like, uh, fear. You do
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: things because of what you're afraid of to avoid things
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: you're afraid of. Most things in life, you work for
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: financial success because you're afraid of being poor more than
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: anything else. And, uh, you work towards acceptance because you're
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: afraid of being alone.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes you look at pornography or you do
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: stuff like that because you're afraid of going in and sitting,
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: talking with your spouse or your girlfriend about things that
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: are scary to you.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So that's how life, that's how a person,
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: and it's understandable. It's like people just do their best.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: But when life throws a bomb in the middle of
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: your life and you survive it, you are given this
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: beautiful opportunity to go like, to see everything from another
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: angle and go like, what is, what is even breathing? Like,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: what is even like, why do I put a sock on? Like,
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: what am I doing here? And it breaks everything that
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 2: takes everything away and it goes start again. And you
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 2: look back at your life and you go, that was
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 2: a fucking mess. And you're met with real remorse about
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: your mistakes. You don't have time to regret when you're
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: living life. But when it's cut off and you just go, wow,
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: that was fucked up. And I can't even fully fix
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: it for some people. I just can't. I just, what
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 2: do I do now? Put a sock on. Maybe another sock.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe on the same foot. Maybe two socks on one foot.
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with that? And you get, I got my
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: sense of humor back that way. So it's just like,
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: this is all pretty silly. It's all pretty fucking silly
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 2: in a sense. Don't you dare take life seriously. It's
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: like one of my big things that even as a comedian,
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: you sort of think I'm a great comedian. Yeah. Lighten up, buddy.
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: And, um, the shows I've been doing on the road
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: now are just there. I called the show ridiculous cause
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: it's back to, I just want to be, I just
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 2: want to surprise people with what I'm saying.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: And I just want to, uh, be a bit of
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: an asshole for a little, for an hour. It's just fun. Um,
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 2: But also just seeing that, I don't think I would
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: have seen these things if life didn't force me to.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: So it's good. It's good. Like right now for me,
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 2: life is just so fucking good. Way better than it
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 2: was before.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: Would it be able to live in such fucking, I mean,
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: just to be able to like really face some real
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: challenges in your life. That's pretty fucking crazy.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, you walk away going like, I can do that. Yeah.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: And it's okay.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: And what happened that was terrible was okay. And it
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't all terrible. Some of it was so beautiful because
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: when you're exposed to the hardest part of life, you're
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 2: also exposed to the most wonderful. Like I was looking
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 2: the other day, I don't know why this is, but
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 2: the word compass and the word compassion, like they share
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 2: the first, what, seven letters. I don't know why that is, but.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: you get some direction out of life, but you only
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: find real compassion by seeing real pain and you go,
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, life is really tough, you know? And then that,
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 2: that's all you need. All you need is to understand
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: how much life can hurt. Um, cause it's, um, well,
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, sort of spitting out with what I'm saying,
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: but it's, it's, uh, it, it, yeah, life is, uh,
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 2: Better now. And I also, the what's happened to me
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: can be an example for other people. And like in fellowship, when,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: when I go to a meeting in person and I,
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: and there's a guy who's really hurting, his life's fucked
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: up and I approach him and I go, Hey, you should,
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 2: and he's not sure about being in this program. And, uh,
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: and he goes, Oh, I, I ruined my life. And
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: I go, do you know who I am? And he goes, yeah.
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 2: And I go, I'm doing pretty good, buddy. And the
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: fact that my wreckage can be a mountain for folks
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: to lean on, take a little load off, that's a
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: beautiful gift, you know?
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's been awesome, man. It's so funny. I
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: never really got to know you as a comedian. I mean,
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: I got to know you on stage, but I've gotten
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: to know you, I feel like, as a man. Yeah.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're my brother.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to know you just by being kind
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: and being cool. And yeah, man, I just, yeah. I
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: hope one day I have a cool kid like you, man.
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: That's creative and fun and brave and fucking weird. And,
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: you know, not afraid to hide somewhere and fucking jerk
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: off a little bit. Yeah. Also be fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: Open up, stay open. Yeah.
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: So I hope that one day I have a cool
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: kid like you. Um, and yeah, I just feel really
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: proud that, that, uh, I just feel like, yeah, thank
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: you for being a role model to me, man.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 2: Same, Theo.
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: You do a good job of that, and I think
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: you should know that.
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: Thanks, bro.
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: You do a really good job of that of being
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: important to people, Louie, and it's definitely been that for me.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: So thank you.
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 2: Thanks, bro.
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: I think you're a brave dude. And, yeah, man, I'm
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: excited to see you guys tonight. So get the fuck
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: out of here. Shit's getting fucking gay, dude. But this
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: book is great. You got cum coming out of your eyes.
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: There's jizz coming out because it's backing up. Very clear.
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: That's where the gauge is comes out the eyes.
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, God. Yeah. It's true. That's true. Oh, I know
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, I did a four-part series on it online. Ingram
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: is great. It's a new kind of Tom Sawyer, but
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: it's just good. It's written well. It's not like, oh,
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: this is a big name writing a book, and that's
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 1: why it's going to be good. This book is good
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 1: if anybody wrote it. It's magnificent. And I'm so glad
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: that you finally get to a place in your life
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: where you feel you have the time and the ability
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 1: to make such magic like this, man. Thanks, bro. This
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: is really cool. Thank you. All right, Louis C.K., thank
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 1: you so much, bro.
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Theo.
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: Cornerstone.
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: peace of mind I found. I can feel it in
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 1: my bones.