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#113 Jason Flom with Herman Atkins · Wrongful Conviction

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: On January twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, in south central
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Herman Atkins, a disciplined student athlete who enjoyed
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: refurbishing low rider chevies, was paying a local mechanic for
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: an engine rebuild when a robber snatched the money and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: took off on foot. Herman grabbed the mechanic's gun and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: chased the robber, firing warning shots into the air. The
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: robber turned a corner and Hermann heard more gun shots.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: When he reached the corner, he happened upon another crime scene.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: There were cop cars and people wounded, and Hermann, frightened,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: ditched the gun and retreated. After blanketing the area and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: questioning the mechanic, police wanted Atkins in connection with the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: shooting and wounding of three people, including two police officers,
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  Speaker 1: something Herman would be totally unaware of until authorities caught
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  Speaker 1: up with him while he was visiting family in Phoenix
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  Speaker 1: in November of that year. Fingerprints on the gun found
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that the crime scene did not match Herman, But with
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: two newborn sons and prosecutors promising a guilty verdict that
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: a terribly long sentence if he went to trial, Herman
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: pled no contest to the charges in exchange for a
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: lighter sentence. But this was just the beginning. On April eighth,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, while Herman Akins's picture was being circulated
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  Speaker 1: by police in connection with the January twenty fifth incident,
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  Speaker 1: an armed man forced a twenty three year old store
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  Speaker 1: clerk into the back room of her shop to perform
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  Speaker 1: oral sex on him in Lake Elsinore, California, a city
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  Speaker 1: Hermann had never visited. During the rape, the assailant ejaculated
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and wiped his seamen on her sweater, evidence that would
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  Speaker 1: later clear Herman's name. The armbrobber and rapist fled with
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  Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty dollars in cash and the victim's jewelry.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: The victim and two other store clerks in the strip
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  Speaker 1: mall identified Herman as the assailant from his circulating wanted poster.
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  Speaker 1: With the prosecution relying on this ultimately mistaken eyewitness identification,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: an incentivized jailhouse snitch, and misleading sorology fire, Herman was
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: sentenced to forty seven years plus eight months for a
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  Speaker 1: crime he did not commit. This is raeful conviction with
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  Speaker 1: Jason Flamm Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Everyone, Today you're
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: going to hear a story that has so many layers,
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  Speaker 1: so many twists and turns. It's a story that includes
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: mistaken eye witness identification, bad forensics, police misconduct, and in
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  Speaker 1: the end of the day, what it's got is redemption
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  Speaker 1: and forgiveness of a type that we have never covered
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  Speaker 1: and I've never heard of before. So I hope you're
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  Speaker 1: settled in because this is going to be an amazing ride,
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  Speaker 1: and with me is the star of our show, Herman Atkins.
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  Speaker 1: So Herman, welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: And like I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you're here.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know. It's it's been an interesting journey down.
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  Speaker 1: A long road. It certainly has. And it all started
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  Speaker 1: on the morning of April eighth, nineteen eighty six, a
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  Speaker 1: long time ago. Correct eighty six, that's the year the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Mets won the World Series. That's how long ago that is.
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  Speaker 1: And I'll just set the stage right. So, sometime around
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  Speaker 1: eleven thirty in the morning, a thin, young black man
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  Speaker 1: wearing a dark jacket, rebox shoes, and a gold ring
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  Speaker 1: went into a shoe store in Lake, Elson, Or California,
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  Speaker 1: which coincidentally hapens to with a place you've never been to.
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  Speaker 1: We'll get into that. And he pretended to be interested
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  Speaker 1: in some merchandise and then he being the only customer story,
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  Speaker 1: he pulled a handgum and forced the clerk to perform
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  Speaker 1: moral sex on him, threaten to kill it a horrible crime,
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  Speaker 1: horrible crime. During the rape, the assailant ejaculated and he
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  Speaker 1: left his seamen on her sweater, so there was plenty
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  Speaker 1: of evidence to go on. And he took one hundred
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  Speaker 1: and thirty dollars, making it the robbery and a rape.
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  Speaker 1: But he also took her engagement ring in another ring,
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  Speaker 1: so her sweater was preserved as evidence. And that's when
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  Speaker 1: things get really crazy, right, because you would seem like
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  Speaker 1: a very unlikely guy to be a suspect in this
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  Speaker 1: crime or any crime. Yes, and that's because your stepfather.
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  Speaker 3: He was a highway patrol officer, California Highway Patrol officer
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  Speaker 3: out of the Torrents Division.
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  Speaker 2: He raised me. He raised me in such a way.
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  Speaker 3: I grew up in a regiment type upbringing, where there
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  Speaker 3: was rules, there were structures, there was high expectations, and
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  Speaker 3: there was a lot of pride from him as well
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  Speaker 3: as my mother. We lived at the time in south
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  Speaker 3: central LA, which would be considered middle class at the time.
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  Speaker 1: And you were the third of six kids. Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 1: and you had ideas of becoming a patrolman yourself.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to follow my father's footsteps. My father
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  Speaker 3: went to the military. You come from Jackson, Mississippi, and
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  Speaker 3: you know it is horror stories after horror stories, racism,
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  Speaker 3: the whole shebange when he grew up. So he was
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  Speaker 3: one of the first out of eleven kids, nine boys
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  Speaker 3: of girls, to leave Jackson, Mississippi. And so given the
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  Speaker 3: stories that he told us, I wanted to follow in
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  Speaker 3: his footsteps. He left Jackson, Mississippi, went into the military,
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  Speaker 3: and then come from the military into law enforcement. So
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  Speaker 3: my path was already cut from me. I distinctly remember
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  Speaker 3: when the man went through the police academy and how
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  Speaker 3: I had to shine shoes and belt buckles and anything
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  Speaker 3: that had brass or chrome or silver to it.
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  Speaker 1: And you were a star athlete as well. Oh yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that comes back in the story later in a very
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  Speaker 1: unexpected way. Ah.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, my whole life long, I had spent time
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  Speaker 2: in sports.
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  Speaker 3: He kept me and my brothers well into the community
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  Speaker 3: and social activities. He felt that that was contribute to
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  Speaker 3: a strong foundation and give us the opportunity of learning
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  Speaker 3: what it means to work as a team, to follow
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  Speaker 3: leadership and eventually become leaders. And so I took the
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  Speaker 3: sports and excelled at it, from Pop Warner all the
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  Speaker 3: way on up to high.
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  Speaker 1: School football, baseball, the hoostion bang Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And then this story, like I said, has a really
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  Speaker 1: crazy twist right at the beginning of it. Actually, because,
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  Speaker 1: as I said, you would seem to be an extremely
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  Speaker 1: unlikely guy to be a suspect in any crime. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: you were going to church, graduated high school, doing your thing,
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  Speaker 1: never been in trouble.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And then one day, January twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six,
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  Speaker 1: a crazy thing happened.
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  Speaker 3: I was having an engine rebuilt for a nineteen seventy
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  Speaker 3: four K five Blazer, which was the end cars for
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  Speaker 3: teenagers at that time. I just turned eighteen, and the
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  Speaker 3: guy wanted three hundred dollars to rebuild the engine.
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  Speaker 2: I had given him one.
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  Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty already when I took the engine to him,
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  Speaker 3: and he calls me up a week later and says, hey,
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  Speaker 3: the engine is complete, come when you can't. I couldn't
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  Speaker 3: come into at night. And when I went to go
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  Speaker 3: paying the money, unbeknown to us, there was an individual
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  Speaker 3: watching us from across the street and he approached the
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  Speaker 3: both of us, me and the auto mechanic, and the
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  Speaker 3: guy pulls out a gun and tells us we know
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  Speaker 3: what time it is and took the money that I
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  Speaker 3: was given to the auto mechanic. He then took off
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  Speaker 3: headed it to the corner where two shots was fired
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  Speaker 3: and the police were everywhere because they were up on
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  Speaker 3: the corner investigating a car accident. So everybody in the
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  Speaker 3: area fled so that I period shortly after that. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't think none of it. It's pure chaos and this
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  Speaker 3: is a movie.
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  Speaker 2: See yes. At the time, I didn't think nothing of it.
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  Speaker 3: Went home, and at that particular time, I was expected
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  Speaker 3: to have my first child being born. I had impregnated
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  Speaker 3: a young lady who came for the summer and she
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: lived in Texas. So when she announced that the baby
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  Speaker 3: was about to be born, I went to Texas and
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  Speaker 3: I was there for three months, and.
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  Speaker 2: While there, my first song was born.
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  Speaker 3: And so while I was in Texas, this rate that
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  Speaker 3: happened in April transpired, so I wasn't even in the
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  Speaker 3: state of California when it had happened. Then I came back,
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  Speaker 3: and then I went to Arizona visit family members there.
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  Speaker 3: While I was there, they have a project system, and
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  Speaker 3: so some guys inside the projects had caused harm to
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  Speaker 3: somebody else. Police were called and everybody who was in
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  Speaker 3: the area was lined up as usual and names were taken.
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  Speaker 2: When I gave him my name, they just ran the
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  Speaker 2: name and then came back.
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  Speaker 3: And said, well, you're wanted in the city of Los
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  Speaker 3: Angeles and you're wanted in Lake Elsinore for two council
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  Speaker 3: of rate, two counds of oil copulation, one kind of robbery,
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  Speaker 3: and one kind of kidnap. And I'm like, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 3: I got the wrong guy, stop it, you know. And
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  Speaker 3: so they was like, no, we're going to extradite you back,
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  Speaker 3: no problem. They extradited me within days. When I got
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  Speaker 3: back to California, I was able to address the robbery
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  Speaker 3: incident and what have you. And the mistake I made
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  Speaker 3: at that particular time, I didn't tell them who was
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  Speaker 3: the perpetrator in the matter, because I actually knew the guy,
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  Speaker 3: and it was going to be one of those street
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  Speaker 3: justice things. I'll catch up, which you're gonna give me
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  Speaker 3: my money back because you're gonna get beat up, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And so that was what my thought process was.
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  Speaker 3: So I wound up having to plead no low contendrate
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  Speaker 3: to that whole situation, meaning you can hold me responsible,
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  Speaker 3: but I'm not admitting to what you claim I had done.
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  Speaker 2: What have you.
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  Speaker 3: I was the victim in the matter, and so the
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  Speaker 3: mere fact that it was a two year of fence
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  Speaker 3: clearly tell you the weakness.
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  Speaker 2: Of the matter.
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  Speaker 3: So while we were addressing that, they then shipped me
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  Speaker 3: off to Riverside, California, where I learned about these charges.
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  Speaker 3: And so in April of nineteen eighty six, a woman
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  Speaker 3: called out of Lake Elsinore, California and said that she
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  Speaker 3: had just been raped and robbed. There was a police
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  Speaker 3: car in the vicinity, and she gave it quick description
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  Speaker 3: of the perpetrator. Young, thin build, black male, young, about
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  Speaker 3: sixteen years of age. He said his teeth were small.
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  Speaker 3: I got big t She said that he didn't have
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  Speaker 3: no scars on his hands. I've had that scar on
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  Speaker 3: my hand since you see that scar right there. I
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  Speaker 3: used to box, you know, prize fight when I was young.
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  Speaker 3: I was an athlete, and so I had that scar
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  Speaker 3: there that ended the career. And she said that he
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  Speaker 3: had a ring on this exact finger, but she didn't
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  Speaker 3: describe the scar. She said that the perpetrator at the
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  Speaker 3: shoes he had on was actually a pair of rebots
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  Speaker 3: because it had a flag on it. And so she
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  Speaker 3: was able to identify this person to the nine to
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  Speaker 3: one one operator who gave that information to the police
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  Speaker 3: officer who was raised there on the scene. He was
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  Speaker 3: like in the neighborhood. Two minutes he arrived at the
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  Speaker 3: scene of the crime. He said that they had combed
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  Speaker 3: the neighborhood looking for a mail of this description. And
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  Speaker 3: here's the problem, and that area it's all white, predominant white.
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  Speaker 1: An African American man would have stuck out like a soord.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, at eleven thirty in the morning and an out
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  Speaker 3: a strip mall. This is a busy place. They couldn't
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  Speaker 3: find an individual. A detective was then called out. The
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  Speaker 3: detective took the young lady to the hospital where DNA
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  Speaker 3: rape kit was formed. They gathered all of the evidence
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  Speaker 3: and then they took her to the police station for
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  Speaker 3: further investigation. When they got up there, coincidentally, the wanted
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  Speaker 3: poster in the LA situation, the robbery incident where I
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  Speaker 3: was robbed was laying on the table and she looked
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  Speaker 3: at it and said, this is the guy that raped
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  Speaker 3: me right here. And they was like, are you sure?
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  Speaker 3: She said, yes, I'm real sure. And so when they
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  Speaker 3: were able to get me into the courtroom where I
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  Speaker 3: had an arrayment in Lake Elsa, North California, a place
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I had never been in, never knew anything about. I
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  Speaker 3: was born and raised in south central Los Angeles, and
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  Speaker 3: to this very day I knew nothing about this city.
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  Speaker 3: And having me to come there for arraiment, I am
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  Speaker 3: brought out into the courtroom with nothing but white guys.
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  Speaker 2: I'm the only black guy on his chain of white guys.
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  Speaker 3: But the part that got me, he is, is we're
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: in a jury box right and the DA's desk is
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: about maybe three feet away from me. I mean, I
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: can hear conversations being held with the DA and his
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: party's assistant, and they called my name up and an
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: arrangement had taken place. Plead not guilty and what have you?
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  Speaker 3: He said, Well, mister Atkins' attorney is not here yet,
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  Speaker 3: and so we'll put him on the back end and
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: we'll proceed further. And so once the judge decided to
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: do that, he then got up, went right into the audience.
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  Speaker 3: I'm looking at him, sits next to a woman and says,
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  Speaker 3: do you see the man that raped you?
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  Speaker 2: She looked right over and said, yeah, that's him right there.
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  Speaker 2: I'm the only black guy.
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  Speaker 3: Now, you got the bailiff in back of me, and
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: the bayliff tell me to look forward or when he
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: gets me back in the back, he's going to take
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: his billy cub and bust my head if I didn't
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: continue to look forward. And all the while I'm looking
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: at this and I'm like, yeah, okay, So I can't
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: wait for my attorney to get in so I can
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: tell her about this in court identification. And so when
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: she did come in, by then the bill had already
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: been rung.
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  Speaker 2: You can't unwring it, right.
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  Speaker 1: And this is I want to really dwell on this. U. Yes, right,
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  Speaker 1: because you're the only guy a sea of white guys. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: I mean you're you're you're fucked.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we went on with the arraiement and
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: the date was set for preliminary hearing, at which time
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  Speaker 3: I then learned all the ins and out about the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: case and what have you.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Now. Once the preliminary hearing came about, they.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Had stated that they had three witnesses that could put
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: me at the scene of the crime.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: They had a informant who allegedly.
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  Speaker 3: Stopped the detective as he was leaving the county jail
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  Speaker 3: and said, hey, I heard your addressing a rape case
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: and in Lake Elsinor. I know something about it. I
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: can help you with it. So the detector pulls this
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  Speaker 3: guy out and lo and behold. This informant was supposed
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  Speaker 3: to tell him he knew me that I had relatives
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: in Lake Elsinor, and I was in Lake Elsinor around
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: about the time that this rape had taken place.
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  Speaker 2: Then this is what the informant had told him, told
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  Speaker 2: him what kind.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Of car I drove, told him where I actually came from,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: which was in the city of Los Angeles, and that
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: he had relatives in Los Angeles, and that's how he
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: was able to know.
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  Speaker 2: Me as well.
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  Speaker 3: Then, when the detectives had came to La County to
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: see me for the first time, they had taking items
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: that was in my property. At the time, I was
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: off into hip hop, you know, rapping and things of
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: that nature, and so quite naturally I fit the bill
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: of New York will call a bee boy or what
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: have you, with the big gold chain, the rebock tennis shoes.
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  Speaker 3: I had a nugget ring. And so they took all
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: of this and took it to the victim and showed
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: it to the The victim told.
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  Speaker 2: Him none of that. He didn't have none of that.
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  Speaker 3: But what they did was is they put it all
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: in the bag, and when we went to trial, they
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: used it just saying we took this from mister Atkins,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: this is what he had, this is what the victim
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: originally said that the perpetrator had, and it's here in
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: the bag, and so it was used as evidence.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So they mixed your clothes with the clothes that might
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: look like what she would have remembered.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, wow, yes, yes, that's the police misconduct part of it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Then there was the prosecutorial misconduct of it, where Prosecutor
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Richard Bentley lines up with a roologist and manipulated numbers
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: to tell the jurys that I couldn't have been excluded
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: from the crime when in actuality I could have. They
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: said that I had a rare blood type, and this
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  Speaker 3: blood type only five percent of the nation had this
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: blood type, and because I fit into that five percent
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: of the nation of blood I couldn't have been excluded,
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  Speaker 3: when in actuality it was the other way around. I
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: was in the ninety five percent that could have excluded
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: me right there from the spot. And that's all that
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  Speaker 3: Richard Bentley had to do was to be truthful with
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the matter instead of manipulating the matter. Because what the
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: sorologists had done, it was proven in a civil trial
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: that he had in fact conspired with Richard Bentley to
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: misquote these numbers. In the civil trial, which I love,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: that came, you know, almost two decades later and found
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: that Danny Miller, the lead detective, was liable for his
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: role that he played in my being wrongfully convicted. Richard
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Bentley got to hide behind the badge of immunity where
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: he couldn't be held responsible for what role he played
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: in it. And James Hall, who was the sorologist, he
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: was able to escape because of an issue that the
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Ninth Circuit Quarter of Appeals.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Released him on.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I was shocked to see how the pieces to the
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: puzzle came about as a result that led to my
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: being wrongfully convicted. I realized that there was, in fact
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy. I realized that there was prosecutorial misconduct, there
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: was police misconduct, there was misidentification, there was junk science involved.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: That all led to my being wrongly convicted.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: First of all, before we even get to the jury
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and the verdict, there's an important thing which hurts me
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to even talk about it. I can't imagine how it
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: feels for you. But your father during this time, who
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you obviously looked up to tremendously. You wanted to follow
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: his footsteps, yes, and he taught you so much, But
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: he didn't stand by you. No, he took the side
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of the police over his own son.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: In his exact words, quote unquote, I went with the
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: evidence instead of the love of the child.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And on top of everything else that you were going through,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine how a young person like yourself at
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: this time, barely out of your teenage years can process
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that abandonment.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It was an act of treason too, a father son relationship.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: The jury goes out, did you have any hope that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you would be found innocent after you had watched this
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: whole thing take place in front of your eyes. You
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: were living in it. Right. Did you think they were
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gonna come back and find you guilty? No? I thought
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that the truth would when.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the truth.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: See, my grandmother had a saying, she said, a lie
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: or die, the truth always live on, And so I
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: applied that to that situation. Unfortunately it didn't happen. Then
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: it happened later on. But everything my father had ever
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: taught me about the justice system that went out the window. Hermann,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: America got the best justice system.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: It's not the worst in the world, but it needs
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of improvement.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And as I have grown and have matured and
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: have walked through this journey, I realized what the justice is.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Nothing wrong with the Americans justice system. It's the people
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: that work within the justice system that has given it
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: a bad name.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Right, Because in your case, if they would have followed
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the rules, you would have been exager It wouldn't have
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: even been brought to trial. Yes, nobody would have prosecuted
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: this case. They would have kept looking. They come back
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: in and find you guilty on all counts. So that
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: moment must have been the worst moment of your life.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, can you imagine hearing a sentence we give
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: you forty seven years and eight months in prison.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I was devastated.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have to understand half the time, although
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: I was aged twenty one, I was one of the
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: late bloomers. So I steal five eleven. I weighed maybe
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: one hundred and forty five pounds wet. And when I
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: went back to the sale while being housed at there
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: was a police officer.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: He believed in me.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: And although I never talked to him about or anybody
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: for that matter, about the case, he knew that I
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: didn't commit that crime because he had came on his
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: shift and he had found out what had happened.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And he racked the door and.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: He said, I can, you know, step out, And he
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: took me out, and he put me in a padded
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: cell and gave me a roll of toilet paper and
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: he said I'll be back to check on you. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: when he put me in that cell, I cried like
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: a baby. I that's when I realized you can lose
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: your you know, emotions, and just it just with three hours,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: I just I just cried. I didn't have anybody to
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: console me. My father wasn't there to, you know, hey,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: with that motivational speech. My mother wasn't there to, you know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: with her solutions to every problem.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: None of that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: I was just you know, stripped down to nothing. That
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: was just me right there. And I knew that at
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: that moment I was about to go on the journey.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I was right, but I didn't know what to expect.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: But it was just it just tore me apart and
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: my father. When I was young, I was always willing
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: to help people and what have you. My father used
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: to always say, hermit, you'll have a soft heart, but
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that's all right, Life will harden it for you. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: what he said, he was right, because my heart became
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: instantly hard. I developed hatred, hatred in my heart. When
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: I got to prison, my attitude was, I'm in here
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: for something I didn't do. I'm gonna give you a
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: reason to kill me because I don't see a way out.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: And so my attitude was, when it came from an
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: authoritative figure, you need to let fuck you Akins, you
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: need to fuck you Akins come in. I became what's
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: called a management problem. I can honestly say I kind
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: of checked out mentally and emotionally.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: And you had grown by now into a big, tough guy, right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: I grew over a period of time. But you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: by the time I had did my seventh year and
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: a shoe program later, by the end, I'm six' one
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: And i'm weighing every bit of two hundred. POUNDS i
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: did a sixteen month shoe. Program and by shoe you
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: mean secure, houses, yeah segregating housing unit and where you
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: stayed in the cell twenty three hours out of a,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: day thirty minutes for shower and thirty minutes for. Yard
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: and seldom did you get both doing that right there
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: and talking to a guy that was over in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: cell who was doing an indetermined shoe. Program he had
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: been there eight years, already and he AND i used
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: to talk to event about that like that right, there
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: except it was on the. Wall and he told me
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: something that was just registered to. Me he, said if
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: what you're telling me is, true then you need to
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: get back out on the main, line get into the
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: law books and figure out what happened to, you and
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: get up out of.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Here made sense to.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: ME i strayed, up did the shoe, program hit the main,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: line and kind of stayed to myself other than working
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: and then.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Law library and from, THERE i, mean it took another
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: five years to get. Out what led you to The innis's?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Project how'd you get? Out?
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, well in nineteen ninety, four WHEN i got out
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: of the shoe, PROGRAM i went to the law. BOOKS
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: i hit him. HARD i studied everything they had to
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: do about a rape. Case and there was a guy
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: who had came. In he was doing a. Violation he,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: did like a nine month. Violation he had been watching
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: me from a, distance you. Know he, said, look, man
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: you're kind of young to be in the law books
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the way you, are you, Know and he, said what
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: are the issues that you're fighting or? Whatever BECAUSE i
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: know a little bit of something about law and in,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: prison you, know rapists and a child molest they treated
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: lord than the dirt they walk. On SO i never
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: told nobody, about you, know WHAT i had been in.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: For but it was a calmness about this, guy AND
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: i told. Him he, said, well what are the? Issues
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: AND i told him. That he, said, well it seems
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: as though that you have chopped down a tree and
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you're still dealing with the. Stump he, said there's an
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: organization that could help you get out of. Here it's
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: called The Innocent, project And i'm more than sure if,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: you you, know asked them to help, you they'll take your.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Case you can be out of here in. MONTHS i
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: went in and wrote a thirteen page, letter And Barry
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: sheck And Peter neufeldt sent me a letter saying we
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: would be interested in your. Case can you send us
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: your sentencing transcript The seralasis report in your trial, transcripts
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: and me and my family got together we sent these.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Documents about two weeks after we had sent it, OFF
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: i got a letter From Barry Sheck Peter newfelt again
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: telling me that they not only would they accept my,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: case they broke down how The Innocent project work and
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: the fact that a student would be assigned in my
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: case and what the student job, was and if they
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: were successful at finding the evidence FOR dna, testing then
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: it would be turned over to an in house attorney
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: and that person would go and represent. Me, now from
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: the time they told me that in nineteen ninety, four
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: the evidence was found in nineteen ninety, seven the problem
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: was is that The Innocent project was a fairly new
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: organization and so they didn't have attorneys around the nation
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: willing to do the work.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: That they were, doing especially for a pro bono like
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: they have. Now and so it took them another two,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: years with the assistance of my family as, well to
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: find an, attorney and they found one guy Named Douglas.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Myers he stepped. Up he argued successfully to have the evidence,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: released and it was released In october of nineteen ninety,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: nine at which time it was tested and it proved
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: THAT i was factually innocent of these. Crimes THE da
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: they just did not want to concede on the, matter
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: so they wanted to be slick and Asked Barry shack
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: in the courts to have a SECOND dna. Testing they
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: wanted to send everything To, Berkeley california for another testing
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: and what have, you which would have caused me to
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: be there even. Longer But Barry shad got smart and
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: told them and, said let's get THE fbi, involved and
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: they sent it to THE. Fbi and While Barry shak
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And Peter, newfield they had wrote a book and they
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: were on the book, tour THE fbi found out what
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the results were and tried to make it seem like
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: they discovered that an innocent man was in, prison and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: they were the ones that pressed for my immediate. Release
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: so the minute order came Down february seventeenth of two,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: thousand demanding my immediate release BECAUSE i had been proven
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: by way of post CONVICTION dna testing THAT i was
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: factory innocent of the charges some twelve years. Later but
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: it was a total of fourteen because the moment they
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: put handcuffs on, you that's when the clock. Starts, yes
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: so it's a total of fourteen.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Years so fourteen.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Years never received an apology From Richard, Bentley Nanny, Miller James,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: howe norther victim for that. Matter but in coming, home
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: you can actually see. Me go to YouTube type In
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Hermit AKIN'S dna testing and you're gonna see a video
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: of my immediate. Release what was it like walking? Out
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: everything was new to. ME i had lost touch with.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: SOCIETY i had been gone over a. Decade but as
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: far as coming, HOME i was excited about that BECAUSE
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: i did make plans WHILE i was in.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: THERE i knew one day you're gonna have to let me, go.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And they, did and they, Did and so you walked.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Out what's the first thing you did when you.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Well as far as eating, well the first THING i
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: did with my mother and my sister and her husband
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: and an auntie and my one of my sons who
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: had been born BEFORE i went. In he was one
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: years old WHEN i went to. Prison he was fourteen
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: years old WHEN i got. Out and so we all
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: stopped AT I hop and one of the THINGS i
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: noticed is IS i had eight prison food so LONG
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: i couldn't keep nothing on my. Stomach so we bypassed,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: that AND i had to actually go to a dollar
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: store In california and buy stuff that they sold in the.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: CANTEEN i had to make prison spreads in order to
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: eat and survive out here.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: For at least a. Month that's.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Crazy and then they took me to a hometown buffet
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: and something about they food set on my, stomach So
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: i'm maulled day. Food and we would drink coffee up
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: into like, fold just. COFFEE i went To starbucks and
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: brought some coffee from. THERE i stayed up for three,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: days literally three. Days my sister and son, herr what's
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: wrong with? You you?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Know are you all? Right you're?
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Not WHAT i?
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Said, yeah starbug got some strong. COFFEE i don't mess
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: with starbug. Coffee to this very.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Day because the prison coffee was so. Weak i'm gonna.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Die that's gonna stick with ME a long time story
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: about you eating prison food after you got out for a.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Month that's. Crazy and then so you went to college.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Out, yeah WHEN i came, home work was not an.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: OPTION i needed to be. EDUCATED i already had a
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: high school. DIPLOMA i went enrolled in college and ONCE
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: i got, THERE i went to the head coach and told, them,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: hey this is my.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: STORY i want to play.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Football and so WHEN i came, HOME i still had
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: that twenty one year old mentality AND i looked LIKE
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: i was about twenty two twenty three at. Best and
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: so ALTHOUGH i was thirty four years of, age he, said,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: well if you can make the, team you.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: In so spring training came.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Around it was a lot of, conditioning, running and we
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: had to do this final test and THEN i made the.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Team and when ONCE i made the, team they gave
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: us a, helmets shoulder, pads all of, that AND i
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: was able to show on WHAT i was made of.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Physically at age thirty, FOUR i was out there rocking
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: these eighteen and nineteen year old kids who was coming
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: out of high. School All american defensive, End All american, linebacker.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: You, know and what have.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: You And i'm, like, yeah, okay WHEN i was out
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: there tearing them, apart AND i had hit a guy
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: so hard one, TIME i knocked myself out and so
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: the coach took my, helmet which was my prize. POSSESSION
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: i had to sit out for a week for concussion
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: purposes and what have. You but we got back at
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: AND i played college football for two years at that
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: particular college.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: In your mid. Thirties and then, yeah and then one
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: of the more extraordinary things ABOUT i was going to
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: say about your, story but really about, you is the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: aspect that deals with your father and how you dealt
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: with this, betrayal this treason after, Treason, yeah which is you,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: know as someone WHO i grew, up you, know my
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: father was my hero and you, know AND i can't
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: even imagine on any level how empty and horrible that
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: must have. Felt but you did something THAT i think is.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Extraordinary and can you talk about. THAT i, mean what
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: happened with you and your dad when you got.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Out, yes it's one of them situations where WHEN i
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: remember coming up and my father always demanded an explanation
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: as to WHY i done. Something and so ALL i
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: remember doing at time and coming home is that this
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: man never came to visit. Me he never wrote, me
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: he never sent me money packages and none of. That
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: so he was like he turned his back on. Me
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: but he did always tell, us you, KNOW i don't
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: go visit people in. JAIL i put people in. Jail i'm, like.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: Okay so that was my thought, then and it wasn't
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: until we did the Documentary After innocence With Mark simon
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: And Jessica, sanders and they interviewed, him but they never
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: told me what he had told them until the documentary was,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: complete and it was now and on the big, screen
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And i'm sitting in this theater And i'm watching. Him
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: and when they did his, interview out of his mouth
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: came the explanation as to why he did what he.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Did he, SAID i went with the evidence instead of
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: the love of the. Child AND i immediately got up
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: after that registered with. ME i got up while the
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: documentary was still. GOING i went to the. HALLWAY i
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: called my father AND i, said you, KNOW i always
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: wondered why you did what you, did BUT i just
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: heard your. Explanation and it was at that, MOMENT i
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: forgave him BECAUSE i understood that once you become a police,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: officer you are trained to think a certain, way and
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: now That i'm going to law, School i'm being trained
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: to think a certain. Way he was trained to go
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: with the. Evidence i'm being trained to go with the
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: facts and make sure that the evidence lines.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Up with the.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Facts SO i was able to forgive him right then and.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: There and this happened in five WHEN i just really
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: got my explanation AND i went to my father AND
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: i told, HIM i forgive.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: YOU i get, IT i.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Understand, however since the DAY i came, home my father
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: has been spending majority of our, time And i've been
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: homes in nineteen. Years he has been spending majority of
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: that time trying.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: To make it up to me for the decision that he.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Made And i've been spending my time showing HIM i forgive.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: You you're my, FATHER i love. YOU i talk to him,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: REGULARLY i go.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Visiting but NOW i have to do it more so
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: now THAN i have done over the last few, years
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: because now he's dealing with alzheimer and it's creeping up
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: on him.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Fast and Then i'm.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Forced to stay winning to the bitter, end because my
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: greatest fear is now about to confront. Me one. Day
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: he's going to forget WHO i. Am he's going to
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: forget that decision he. Made he's going to forget every
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: life lesson that he's taught. Me he's going to forget.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Everything, yes now you have a bunch of.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Grandchildren, YES i got seven of.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Them, yeah so that's. Great you'd be graduating law. School, yes.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Awesome and Then california has never compensated, you and that
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: is obviously completely. Unacceptable is ironic because you were one
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: of the people that was really responsible for changing those
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: compensations that you To. California it used to be believe
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it or, not. Y'all let you tell, It.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Well it used to be ten thousand.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Dollars if you can prove that you were, wrong be,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: convicted you can get ten thousand. Dollars, well first of,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: all we didn't even know that law was on the.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Books somehow ANOTHER aclu found, it and a couple more
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: other sharp attorneys found, it and we went in address,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: it meaning, me several of the Exoneries Natasha minska for THE.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Aclu we went before a.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Panel we were able to get that change from ten
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: thousand total to one hundred dollars a. Day and WHEN
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: i doubled back to apply for, it they told me
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: you get nothing because statute of limitations have ran out on.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: You i'm, like, huh, Really california owe me a half
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a million.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Dollars, Yeah AND i think even, then one hundred dollars a,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: day that's thirty six five a, year AND i think
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: you'd have a hard time going on in the streets
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and asking people if they want to go into the city.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Fride you're on a maximum security prison one hundred dollars a,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: day AND i could get a lot of takers for.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: That they could give me it being the best interest
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: to give me my money, now because ONCE i become an,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: attorney Then i'm gonna come get it another way And
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: i'm gonna keep getting it and getting in. It and
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: when they asked, me, well why are you these lawsuits and,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: this that and the, Other, well, hell you should have
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: gave me my.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Money, right and now you're gonna get it on. Behind
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: i'm gonna get it. It, Yes, yeah it's. Ironic you're being
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: a football player and there they were moving the goalpost on, you,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Right but that's the way it. Goes so everything about
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: your story is. Extraordinary i'm really grateful that you shared
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: your story with my audience and with me here on wrongful.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Conviction and then now comes my favorite part of the.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Show this is the part of the show WHERE i
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: get to actually just thank you AS i just, did
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: and then turn my microphone off and just, listen AND
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: i leave it to you for the last few minutes
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: for closing thoughts of. Anything you want to talk about,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Anything it's all. You it's your.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Stage, okay here's the. Thing one of THE i travel this,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: NATION i speak on judicial. REFORM i work closely with
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: The Innocent. PROJECT i have dedicated my life to the
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: work that they, do and there's some things THAT i
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: found that contribute to our justice system being seriously. Flawed
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: BUT i first present this to anybody to hear my.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: STORY i, say each, one teach, one teach, one each,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: one AND i present that challenge to the, person meaning
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: what you have heard here, today go out and educate
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: the next. Person because awareness is very important to solving any,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: situation and in this, case people needs to be aware
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: of the fact that we have a seriously flawed justice.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: System it has accounted for individuals being wrongly. Convicted there's
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: a few individuals that has been killed in the justice
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: system as a result of being wrongly convicted and. Executed
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and these are the things that needs to stop. Now
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: the solution is is let's start at the base of the. Problem,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: see it's not the justice. System i've come to realize
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: the justice system will work perfectly if we get the
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: right people to operate within. It and the problem comes
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: in to play ad is when you got corrupt prosecutors
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: who's getting wrong for, convictions are causing wrong for conviction
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: because they want to be, politicians they want to be,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: judges they want to be counselmans and what have. You
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: and because of, that they're willing to do anything to
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: get a. Conviction then you got these corrupt police. Officers
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: lord not to mention how they just out of here
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: killing black males like it is the thing to, do
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: like it's perfectly. Legal, okay we're dealing with a psychological
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: problem from the police.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Department we need to do two.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Things we need psychic evaluation on these police, officers get
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: them out of the. Way and those that has caused,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: problems we need to buy way of pictures. Motions we
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: need to go into their, background figure out who they,
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: are and start protesting to get them up out of.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: There and when you have A da that don't want
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to file a, case when they're clearly there has been
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: a violation of the law on behalf of the, police
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: they don't want to file the, case then we need
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: to start looking at THAT da and shut that person,
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: down you, know when it comes down to elections and
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: things of that. Nature and we got to always remember
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: who these people are because what you feel to realize
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: is the very people who was hollering back in the
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: eighties and the nineties tough on. Crime, yo these people
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: has caused a serious problem To. Americans justice system is
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: busting at the. Scenes taxpayers is paying for. It and
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: now the taxpayers is looking back on it and they, saying,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: wow we can't afford to keep inmates and start letting them,
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: out letting them want with non violent offenses, out, this
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: that and the other, wise so you can cut the.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Costs so you should have thought about that when these
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: politicians was hollering tough on. Crime so in, fact let's
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: weave them individuals out and get rid of, them get
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: them out.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Of office as. Well we need to overhaul our.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Justice system by removing the very individuals that are creating the.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: PROBLEMS i would like to see laws. CHANGE i would
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: like to see when it comes down to, compensation that
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: every state In america follow. SUIT i like How texas
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: has set their compensation package up and every state In
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: america should follow. THAT i think that should be a
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: federal law that all states has to do one thing
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: in all honor of. Compensation one of the things that
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: people feel to realize is is that a person who
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: has actually committed a crime can get out in any
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: state and go to government funded organizations and receive all
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: types of helps and resources to acclimate themselves back into.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: SOCIETY a person who has been wrongly, convicted such as,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: myself is told to go back out in society and
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: function the best way you. Can there is no compensation
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: package wherever a person has been improved and wrong for,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: convicted where he can go get an, education where he
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: can go and get, housing where he can get, transportation
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: where he can get psychological, help where he could turn
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: around and be a productive citizen in society with some
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: type of employment or what have.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: You there's nothing.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Set up for, that and So i'd like to see that.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: CHANGE i like to see laws like that. Change but
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: the biggest THING i want to see, happen AND i
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: pray To god THAT i live to see it, happen
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: is have that badge of immunity if you moved from, them,
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: prosecutors if you violate the very law that you swore
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: to uphold and, protect then you should be prosecuted by.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: It if you have indulged in the taking of a person's.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Life because when you put somebody in, prison be it
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: for a, day be it for for a, month be
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: it for a, year be it for a, decade you
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: have killed that. Person you have killed that, person and
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: the person that did, it the people that's, involved be
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: it the, prosecutors be it the. Police they all need
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: to be held accountable for their. Actions SO i want
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: to see. ACCOUNTABILITY i want to see that badge of immunity,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: removed not in one, state in all, states in all,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: states in all, cities regardless of how big or, small
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: of what have. You AND i would like to see
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: society as a whole start focusing on what's going on
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: over In kansas.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: With this.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Bluski oh my, god that rate there is textbook.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Corruption and if it went on, there it's just like
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: the same thing that went on In california with The
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Rampart division. Scandal this stuff right here is. Common the
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: only thing that's bringing it to light now is social.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: MEDIA i thank, god because the regular media it's not
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: going to televise what a person holding a camera up
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: to the.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Situation with, televise that means it's up close in.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Person AND i thank god that you have those that
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: hold your camera.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: UP i advise that you hold them up high.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Because it is your, heart is your courage in the
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: face of these corrupt police officers that is bringing about
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: the truth in the.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Matter thank you dropping a lot of, knowledge and if
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you want to learn more About, glubski listen to The
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: lama McIntyre episode Of Wrongful. Conviction you'll hear all about.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: It thank you again for being, Here Herman, atkins and
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: thank you everyone for. Listening And i'll see you next
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: week On Wrongful. Conviction don't forget to give us a
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: fantastic review wherever you get your, podcasts it really. Helps
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: And i'm a proud donor to The Innocence, project AND
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: i really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: To innocentsproject dot org to learn how to donate and get.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Involved i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And Kevin. Wartis the music in the show is by
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to
• 42:16
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• 42:20
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• 42:24
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• 42:27
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