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The Big O Podcast - Episode #7: Pats,Sox, and Inside Radio Talk · The Big O Podcast

• Glenn Ordway: Well, exactly what we expected, Pete. I mean, let let's face it. We knew that Drake May would come back, have a terrific game. You know, we knew that Chisholm would end up being the star of the game. And we knew that the Buffalo Bills were vastly overrated and that everybody wasted the last seven days, you know, getting their little panties in a in in a bunch. We w I mean we predicted it just one hundred percent, didn't we? No. Pete Sheppard: All I predicted was this is that anybody who thinks they have figured this league out, particularly in the first four weeks of the season, you have no idea what you're talking about. And it's not just the Patriots. You look it all the way around. And I should have known when they announced that Gonzalez and Barnmore weren't going to play, Glenn, the line didn't move. It stayed basically at six. What does that tell you? What does that tell you? but anyway, Glenn Ordway: Vegas knows, Vegas knows, Vegas knows. Pete Sheppard: yeah, it's just it's it's unpredictable. It was great to see. I'm I'm very happy to be to be wrong, although figuring out the whole league in the first month, just look at these games, look at some of Glenn Ordway: Crazy. Pete Sheppard: the teams. My God, trust me, Glenn Ordway: It's crazy. Pete Sheppard: there are a lot of issues with a lot of teams, teams that are 0-4 that you go, my God, you know, Houston and the Chargers and others. It's it's it's unbelievable. And the Patriots are so, you know, banged up now at so many positions, yet they continue to fight and really talk about the defenses coming up, not that great that they have to play against. Again, with the premise of preamble of you don't take anybody for granted. But if you're talking about some of the top defenses thus far, they've already played them the next few games. Should be on paper a little easier, but that's not how it's that's not how it is. The Raiders are playing the Raiders are playing great, even though they lost. Yeah, the Jet Glenn Ordway: It's not how it works, Pete. The Raiders are legit right. They're legit. Pete Sheppard: the Jets are the Jets. They'll find a way to lose. It doesn't matter. I'm not worried about that game. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but they'll they they could be competitive now, where in the past they weren't competitive. So you're right. It's it's i yeah. Yeah, we'll get to all the schedule Pete Sheppard: yeah. absolutely. I'm not saying pages blow out. I'm just saying it's a it's a one score game. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: stuff in in time. Pete the meat is with us as he is every every week as we take a look back at a Patriots game. And I laugh when I when I said that at the beginning, because Pete and I actually conversed before the game and we said, my god, they might get blown out in this one. But everybody thought that. And if you didn't, you are lying right now. You're lying your ass off. Everybody thought it was going to happen. So what's the end result? The end result is Drake May did a lot of good things. Now, were there some bad things? Yeah, he dropped the ball one time. Ball security still is an issue. He had two other snaps that were a little bit shaky Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: that could have been could have you know been turned over. Pete Sheppard: Interception not his fault. I hate when that was go against the quarterback. That was Jones and he just went to he caught the ball and w got up and and came out of his hand. That was I hate that. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yes, the ball to get pushed out. But it wasn't a great pass, but it wasn't you're right. It Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: was not it was not his fault. Yet the two passes to Chisholm, obviously phenomenal catches, especially the game winner Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: with the one hand, but somebody's got to find a little bit of space to get that ball into him, and May did that. So a lot more confident. And here's where I really think he was different. In the last few weeks we've been talking about the decision making, and for him Because he's unlike what we've seen in the past with a pocket quarterback. He's got to make that split second decision, Pete. Am I going to throw the football? Am I going to throw Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: the football on the run? Or am I going to tuck the ball in because the safety is biting on the receiver and I've got the space to go and and run? That's Pete Sheppard: That's what he did. Glenn Ordway: where he had really been struggling. I thought in this game the runs he made were decisive. They were aggressive. It was like shit, man, I know I got seventeen yards and I'm tucking it in and I'm taking it. I thought that was the big difference we with Drake made. Pete Sheppard: Well, yeah, he also ended being the leading rusher on the team yesterday with fifty-four yards. But I would have loved to if I I wish we could have watched practice this week, because I'll bet you he did a lot of that in practice. Would not be Glenn Ordway: Probably. Pete Sheppard: surprised. I always think it's gotta be hard for the number ones, even the number two, it it doesn't matter to practice against your own team, knowing what some of your guys are capable of and maybe even knowing some of the plays. I would I I always wonder how you know, how precise it is, how I wonder if he took off in practice against that defense. And of course the defensive coaches are gonna start screaming while the offensive coaches are gonna be praising you. So it's so it's it's so funny because I've seen we've seen football practice before. It's never it can never be perfect on one side. It's one side is always getting coached and yelled at no matter what, you know. So I always find that really fascinating. But I'm wondering if somebody asked Mike Vrabel that, like how was he did he take off in practice this week, knowing that the scout team was going up, you know, playing Buffalo style defense. Allegedly. But I thought it was you're right. It was his best decision making. He didn't hesitate. Maybe one time he didn't and maybe one time he should have taken a sack. But he was a leading rusher on the team with fifty-four yards yesterday on on six ca six carries, I believe. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, Vrabel addressed that question about practice. Did you have a good week at practice? He said. He said, Well, if we go out and play well in the game, obviously we we're gonna say we had a good week in practice. And if we don't go out and play good in the game, then what does that practice, even if it was good, what does it all mean? But I think they did have a good week. It's obvious that they had a good week because he got their attention again. And, you know, there were people out there nationally. Who were even throwing it out that they die and a Rossini distraction had Mike Rabel off the tracks and he was gonna have trouble getting this team back. Yeah, but course they do. Pete Sheppard: That's a crutch. When people say that, I I think when people use that it's a crutch. It's it's a way of getting bait click. It has nothing I don't think it has anything to do with shit. I I really don't. Glenn Ordway: Of course, I I agree with you. But what ended up happening is he got their attention again. He really did. He got their attention. And it was pretty obvious. Now, there was one screw up by Vrabel in the game, and I I guess I could give him a f a little mulligan in this one because Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: he swore at an official and said that was a bad fucking call. I coaches say that coaches say that all the time. It's a bad fucking call. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, now we could read his lips. I I know. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And They nailed him with a 15 yard penalty in a key situation. They were in the red zone driving. That Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: was a big, big play, and that could have been disastrous for the team in the in the long run. But I think you saw some confidence with Romeo Dows as well. I think the he played a good game. There were some good Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yes. Glenn Ordway: signs there. I think the offensive line had a few breakdowns during the course of the game, but they also did a good job of keeping him clean for most of that game, Pete. So there were a lot of good signs in this game. Pete Sheppard: No the you know one of my favorite plays was, besides the obvious one, was when Brady fumbled the snap, then goes to do play action. I think it was Glenn Ordway: Wait a minute. Who s who fumbled the snap? Pete Sheppard: I break it. I'm sorry, Drake Mage. And he no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm looking at number twelve over there. Glenn Ordway: What's wrong with you? You still have Brady in your head? You know what it's like? It's it's like hold on, you know what it's like? It's it's like that old girlfriend. And even though you split up with her five years ago, you can't give up. You still think there's a chance, right? You said Brady. The guy's name is Drake May. Get your get your act together. Pete Sheppard: No, I so anyway. Drake may fumbled. He fumbled the snap. He still goes to do play action, although it was either Henderson or Stevenson had already run by. There's nobody there Glenn Ordway: Right. Pete Sheppard: to do the play action to. And then he made, I think it was to Dobbs. He somehow recovered, rolled out to his right leg, st somehow stepped up and made a brilliant throw. I think it was to Hunter Henry. It might have been. Glenn Ordway: He did. Did. It was Hunter Henry, yeah. Pete Sheppard: And what a gr that was my favorite play in the game, besides the obvious, you know, touchdown passes and and stuff like that. That was that would that was phenomenal. I was laughing my head off. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: All right, so so do me this favor, because you and I have said this for years when Mondays have shown up and we've had Patriots Monday, and the Patriots would lose and people would call up and say, but it was a good loss. And and you and I would always pitch, there's no Pete Sheppard: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: such thing as a good loss. And loss is a loss. Trust me, when Belinchek would come into the studio on Monday, there was no good loss. Okay. The loss was bad. So in the fourth quarter, when you Start to see the thing, you know, getting a little bit shaky. You got Josh Allen with the football. You know what he's capable of doing. Did you in any at any time sit there on your couch and say, you know what's okay if they lose this game because it'll be a good loss, because it'll be a moral, a morale builder. No, okay. I can't either. Pete Sheppard: No. Nah, I can't think that way. The only thing I was fearful of was he's gonna chuck it deep. He did it earlier than I thought, and the Patriots are gonna get caught either with a bad call or an obvious pass interference call, and that was gonna lead to a possible game winning score for the Bills. But no, I I was n I was not inclined to go. Not no way. Not not after what I saw and how they were playing. That would have been, I think, a devastating loss had they lost that game. Absolutely devastating. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I I'm I'm I'm with I'm with you, Pete, but I think there would have been a lot of fans because they I think had so much gloom and doom during the course of the week. And you're right. We're only four weeks into the NFL Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: season. There's a lot more stuff that is gonna unravel. And we all know that the teams that survive and are there at the end deep into the playoffs are usually the healthiest teams. Okay. The league is a league of attrition and you start losing them every single week. And so how many are still standing when we get to week 17? That determines so much of what happens in the National Football League. But I want to caution people this week, because I think there's a I I hate to say this is t entire flip-flop, but I'm pretty good at flip-flop, so I'm gonna throw the flip-flop out at you. I am, so I'm gonna throw the Pete Sheppard: You are the master flip flopper. Glenn Ordway: flip-flop at you. And that is, did we overrate Buffalo? Just hold on one second. Let me give you some numbers. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: You know I am a master. Pete Sheppard: Yes. Glenn Ordway: Of statistics. Do you know what Buffalo's strength of schedule is so far through four games? It is 250. You know what their strength of victory is, Pete? It's 167. Now let me give Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: you the New England Patriots. Strength of schedule, 688. That's right. Almost 70% wins of the Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: teams that they played. And guess what their strength of victory is? It is 625. So Buffalo, and here's where I think we're we're missing it with Buffalo. Because I question whether Buffalo is that good now. I really do. And I question Josh Allen as an MVP, and for the first three weeks, that's all they talked about. He's the leading candidate for for MVP. They play they beat Houston. Okay. They're and four. You already mentioned Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: that. They beat Detroit. Well, Detroit is a mediocre team right now. They're two and two. They have all sorts of breakdowns. They went into Carolina and they got smoked in that game on Sunday night. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: And then Buffalo beat the Chargers. Well the Chargers are not what we thought they were. The Chargers suck. Right. So Pete Sheppard: G the Chargers gave that game away. Chargers gave that game away as well. Like they have all you but see, this is where the strength of schedule, this is why it's all BS to start to see. You don't know. Because at the beginning of the season, the Bills with Houston, Detroit, and the Chargers, probably up there, probably top 10 schedule, maybe even better. Look before they even played the games, you look at Glenn Ordway: Well what did you what did you think before the the first four games with Buffalo? You would look at the schedule and I did said, my god, Houston, Detroit. Then they have to play the Chargers. I thought that was a killer schedule from them out of the gates. So the Patriots have also had a killer schedule. The difference is they beat a couple of these these teams, okay? Now Buffalo's three and one, but I'm telling you, I think that's a deceiving three and one right now. I do. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, and then w I mean again, only only time will tell with them and and exactly Glenn Ordway: Time will tell. Always does. Pete Sheppard: as Asia once wrote about. Great song by the way. But you know, that they got the ra they they're at the Rams on Monday night football. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Hey Pete, Pete, Pete, hey Pete, do do me a favor, okay? See if you can refrain from when a music reference pops up to talk about the band or talk about the drummer or whatever. They already have a guy in afternoon drive on EEI that's already doing that. So you're that it that that role has already been taken, okay? Yeah. It's all in tech. Yeah. Pete. Yeah, I know you I know you do. Pete Sheppard: really? I'm sorry. Did I copy that? Well, I'm I'm sorry. I was just a little blurb. I like giving up blurbs. But yeah, now now they're gonna go up against the Rams who made a night great comeback yesterday in fourth quarter on the Eagles. What I mean, you talk about can you imagine can you imagine Glenn Ordway: Yes. Boy, they were in trouble, weren't they, Pete? Pete Sheppard: IP in Philadelphia today, what's going on over there and the other sports station, whatever. But they have to play Glenn Ordway: They want they want Siriani fired. That's what they want in Philly. I've already been listening. Philly wants Siriani out. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: They want him out. Pete Sheppard: Of course they wanted him out every year since he's been coaching as well. But understandably I th there's something going on Glenn Ordway: But he won a Super Bowl. Pete Sheppard: of it. But the but Buffalo, my bigger point, Buffalo has to go play the Rams on Monday night football next week. That's a tough that's gonna be tough. Not Glenn Ordway: Cross. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: that they can't win, we'll see. And you know, with the Patriots, as I we've always talked about, I've always said, you find out the true nature, character of a team in sports when the crap hits the fan. So I think the crap kinda hit the fan a couple of weeks ago, you know, after the you know, not the Pittsburgh, but you know, the the following week. And then now it couldn't have been worse for them. The Baltic Axe could not have gotten could not have gotten any worse as far as morale. And now we're Glenn Ordway: The the blowout the blowout to Jacksonville was an eye opener. Right. Now Pete Sheppard: we're we're doing okay. Glenn Ordway: okay, but now in retrospect, looking at these four games, not that we didn't think Jacksonville was pretty good. Jacksonville's probably better than what we thought they were. Okay? So and we're starting to see that now. So you're you're right. This thing will unfold as we go along. And at the end of the season, you can evaluate the schedule. You can't do it before the season begins because you don't know what those teams are going to be like. We thought Houston was going to be a contender, right? Didn't we? We thought Detroit was going to be a contender. We thought the Chargers were a legitimate team that could could could have a nice playoff run. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: And yet all three of those teams right now look like shit. And Pete Sheppard: Yeah, and Houston's the only team, and they've done it twice in the last three years, where they got started off 0 3 and made the playoffs both times, including last year. But no team has ever started off 0-4, right? And made the playoffs. No team in Glenn Ordway: Correct. Correct. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: the history of the NFL. Not that again, after what the Red Sox in 04, anything is possible. But I think it's highly unlikely that any team that's 0-4 is going to be in the postseason. Glenn Ordway: So getting back to the game now, because I know people love to do it, and we heard this the last couple of weeks. They've figured out Drake May. They've Pete Sheppard: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: gone to the video. All right, they got the all twenty-two is out on a big screen and they have figured out exactly what Drake May is doing. Well, after that game yesterday, I think you could say the same thing about Josh Allen. So they're playing zone. They're keeping him in the pocket because they know where Josh Allen is the most dangerous is similar to the skill set that that Drake May has, though I think Josh Allen is probably a little bit more polished in it. And that is that he can roam out of that pocket. He can make the decision to wait for the separation, throw to the receiver, or he can run it and give you 12, 15, 17 yards. They kept him in the pocket yesterday, Pete. His first run was not until the fourth quarter, and I believe he had four yards. Pete Sheppard: For you are Glenn Ordway: That was it. You just talked about Drake May being the the leading rusher for New England. Josh Allen was not able to be Josh Allen because of the way the Patriots defended him. Pete Sheppard: If I ever if I had said to you, be honest, one two stats before after the game and I you didn't know the game and I said one quarterback rushed for fifty four yards on eight carries and the other one rushed for four yards on five carries, who would you have told me what quarterback and who would you have thought won the game? Glenn Ordway: Brady. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's you. I shouldn't, I shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, no, it's a great, it's a Pete Sheppard: Starback. Bradshaw. Glenn Ordway: good red shot. It's a it's a great point. And so some of the flaws that we see with Drake May, and the the kid is young, okay? Josh Allen has gone through a lot of these growing pains through his career here. And yeah, by the way, still hasn't won a Super Bowl. And yeah, by the way, he struggles in playoff games, okay? So, but we're Yesterday you you saw a lot of that same stuff that we were complaining Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: about the last couple of weeks with Drake May, you saw with Josh Allen. And Josh Allen's Pete Sheppard: I think on the Glenn Ordway: more polished at this than Drake May is. Pete Sheppard: I wanna say on FanDuel yesterday for player props, I almost took it, was I think was Josh Allen rushing over fifty two yards. I think that was. I almost took it. I said, Nah, you know what? Glenn Ordway: Why would you w before the game, why would you ever take that? I could see Pete Sheppard: Well because Glenn Ordway: as you watch the game, I could see at halftime, my God, they've really been able to pinch in on Josh Allen. I'm gonna go put that prop bet in. Before the game, you can't put that prop bet in. No, no, I'm not saying you can't, but I'm Pete Sheppard: No, before no, before the game b yes you can. Yeah you can. They have all those p yeah. Glenn Ordway: saying it's a stupid it's a stupid bet, is it not? Because Josh Allen usually does run for forty or fifty yards every game. Pete Sheppard: That's what I'm saying. I would have bet on him that he did. He would have. And I d and and I and I didn't. At yes, I apologize a thousand times. No, that that's that's why. And Glenn Ordway: okay. Okay, I'm sorry. Once again I misunderstood you. I apologize. Yes. My fault. My it's my hearing. It's not you. No. Right. Pete Sheppard: you know, I'm not sure what Brady, I'm not sure what May's total was for rushing on the prop bet, but I guarantee you whoever bet over won it. You know, unless by the way, speaking Glenn Ordway: Well you Yeah. Pete Sheppard: of that, and we'll get to it again, TJ Hawkinson taking a knee when the two minute warning was coming up, once again. And the commissioner is sitting here going bl Hey, it's a billion dollar business and people are screwing around with with other people's money. Glenn Ordway: So if we were twenty years in the past, the NFL would have come tearing down on all of these guys when it comes to betting right now. Trevor Lawrence last week, they would have done that because they didn't have any financial interest in the gambling aspect of the business. But now they are partners with all of these gambling interests. So they're not gonna it it is very good. Pete Sheppard: It's a menage a tois. NFL, DraftKings, and FanDuel. It's a big fucked up menage a tois. And the only people getting porked overall are you and me and other people doing prop bets because the commissioner's got no balls to come out and talk about it. Glenn Ordway: Because they're making money on it, Pete. Once they and that was Pete Sheppard: Yes, it's there I told you that Glenn Ordway: the the absurdity of for years commissioners in all of these sport leagues saying, no, we're not gonna we're not gonna get to that gambling, no. And suddenly when they could get a piece of the pie, and the p the the piece was a pretty large, you know, slice, once they could get that, all bets were off, they changed everything. They suddenly dove into it headfirst, and now they will protect all interest. And hide whatever they have to hide. All right, we're getting off on a crazy tangent, but that's what we do here. I Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yep. Mm. Glenn Ordway: want to bring back up the two injuries you talked about. Gonzalez is out. Pete Sheppard: Mm. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Carlton Davis had a terrific game. Pete Sheppard: You did. Glenn Ordway: Terrific game. Barmore is out. what did Cook run for? totally. He had 75 yards rushing in the entire game. He was a non factor. He was a nonfactor in the game. James Pete Sheppard: He had seventy five yards on twelve carries and a touchdown, a long a long of seventeen. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Cook is basically. The guy that opens everything up for Josh Allen. If they're running, if Buffalo is running the ball effectively, Josh Allen's gonna have so many opportunities during the course of the game. James Cook never got off the the starting block in that game. Pete Sheppard: You know, you know, it's a great it's a great point. And it it was interesting because the only really show I watched, and I st and I think it's probably the best show on ESPN, and it's not even ESPN produced. I think it's NFL produced, it's NFL matchup. So Sal Palantonio and Greg Cosell, the first game they did the on that I I watched Saturday morning or s yesterday early was Buffalo and the Patriots. The very first play that Buffalo ran was that was cook to the left side, and they it was the exact same play that they had broken down on film earlier. Where it's a twelve formation or one running back, two tight ends. T one tight end goes this. But they they figured out and it was the exact same play. Cook and on that got I think he got seven yards. First run he got yesterday, I think was four or five after that play. But after that, it really wasn't it didn't it don't he did have he had one seventeen yard run. You take that away Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Pete Sheppard: and you know, now y you're talking about you know, sixty sixty yards on On eleven carries. We'll take that. And they were averaging five point two yards a he was averaging, I believe, five point two yards a carry, I think, going into that game. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, you're right. His numbers for the game average is inflated in yesterday's game because he had 17 yards on that Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: on that on that one carry. the Matt Collins injury did not look good. And again, they could not afford to lose another receiver. I don't see the same Hunter Henry as I saw last year. I don't know what's going on there. Maybe he's dealing with something. I I don't know. But the Hollins connection with Drake May seemed to be the one that was working the best, maybe because of familiarity, you know, last year. But I Mac Collins is a nice receiver. He is not your number one receiver. And so they lost AJ Brown. And so now Hollins has been getting a lot of those opportunities. I guess it's gonna have to go to Chisholm now, right? I mean, he's he had his breakout game. You've got to come back. and and go with them again in this game. But now you're talking about a couple of small receivers and him and Pop Douglas. But what other op what other chance do you have? Wh where do you where else do you go here if you're down two Pete Sheppard: You you you the one thing about Glenn Ordway: of your big receivers? Pete Sheppard: remember, you know, and Chisholm came on pretty good last year, second half of the season. He made some pretty big catches. Glenn Ordway: And in and in pre se in a preseason again. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, but I mean he yeah, he but he had some decent catches last year. But you talk about Hunter Henry, look, he's targeted five times. He made five catches. He was a leading receiver with sixty two yards, long of twenty. yeah, I'd like to see him get more involved, but The guy that still frustrates me is Kyle Williams. I just I don't understand. This guy cannot run routes. I I watch him. I go back and watch it. He only had two targets and no yards yesterday. That he's so fast, but it's not football speed, Glenn. It's it's he's fast fast, but he can't run routes very well. I I don't get it. I really don't get it. Glenn Ordway: So you know what he is? You know what he is? He he's a guy that can clearly outrun the quarterback. And then when the safety picks up on him, he can outrun the safety. So he can get on the back side of the defense. And if you find him, and that's where we've seen him where he's where where he's scored in the past, if you throw him deep and he's behind the defense, he's gonna make that play. You're right. He does not know how to adjust. So When the quarterback is scrambling back there and Drake May is finding trying to deal with the pressure, Kyle Williams is not the type of guy to come back, slip back inside, get in front of the corner, get in front of the safety and get into a position where May can throw the football. So he's lost. He's a waste of time now. He's already done what he does best. And you're right. Fast, straight from point A to point B. And once he's behind the defense, he's a threat. Elsewhere, he's not a threat anywhere else on the field. Pete Sheppard: And this is where Josh McDaniel's got to figure it out or cut him one way or the other. to Glenn Ordway: Genai a carico. Pete Sheppard: use them, whether it's on slip screens, stuff. I don't care if it's a double reverse and he's running the ball. You gotta figure out a way to Yeah. Glenn Ordway: That may be that may be the be that may be the best thing he can do. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, it might it might be. Or some short passes, get him involved in some screens right away. I'd never see a screen pass thrown to him as well. I I'm trying to figure out a way to get him more involved, get him more confident because I know. He's got the talent. He's just not a good route runner, what I've seen last couple of years. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: you're right though, he's so frustrating to watch because you look at the pure speed and you say, my God, you know, but I think he's so limited in that there's like only one or two routes you can actually, you know, take the opportunity with him. It it just doesn't exist. Pete Sheppard: How long's Holland's gonna be out, you think? How how how long? Have they have we heard Glenn Ordway: I have no idea. You know, I have no idea. And as we've already explained, I think that's the the key to football. It's like I heard a lot of people bitching last week. Well, they could have really used Booty now, you know, with no AJ Brown. Well, here's the problem. Booty was not going to play in the first couple of games. If AJ Brown was playing, Booty was going to be the out guy. So because, you know, you you had the guys, you know, like Chisholm could play special teams, stuff like that. So he was going to be the out guy. You're right. Once AJ Brown goes down, we could have used booty right now, but booty was not going to be part of it. So this is what happens in the National Football League when you're dealing with with injuries. You can't predict what's going to happen. So yes, if I, you know, could have taken the time machine and found out that AJ Brown was going down, you never would have traded away booty, but you did because you knew he was just gonna get more and more frustrated because he'd be sitting on the on the sidelines. It it wasn't gonna happen. Pete Sheppard: And speaking Glenn Ordway: I won't Pete Sheppard: of frustrating wide receivers, and this guy pisses me off. Taekwon Thornton, who's with the Chiefs, and lit it up yesterday again, a hundred and eleven yards and two touchdowns. He Glenn Ordway: Bad injury though. Pete Sheppard: couldn't talk about not being able to run routes. Or maybe you know I hate this word, system. I hate that word. I hate it. But Glenn Ordway: With the Patriots. With the Patriot. System? Pete Sheppard: for some reason could not he had all the speed in the world as well, could not get it done consistently. Guess, you know, you you Glenn Ordway: Has his has his best night in the National Football League by far. And of course he's got Patrick Mahomes throwing the football to him. And what ends up happening? An ugly, ugly injury dislocated the the ankle. And my God, Pete, those are frightening. When you see, Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: when you see the foot go in the opposite direction of where it should be, my God. my God. I could, I can. Pete Sheppard: I can't I'm not listening to Glenn. I I c I can't stand it. I could watch a decapitation and not get grossed out. That grosses me out beyond belief. Glenn Ordway: It was. my God, it was ugly. I felt so bad for the kid because he had Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: been coming on No Pete. If you had watched him at all this season, he had been one of Mahomes targets this season. Yes. And he's got and he and you're right. Pete Sheppard: god yeah. Absolutely. And maybe he's one of those guys, some guys just need to change the scenery sometimes. He's one of them. It's just Glenn Ordway: But you're you're right. He's one of those guys that has tremendous speed and has to figure it out. And I I think that they're hoping that with Kyle Williams, don't you think? They they're looking at the pure Pete Sheppard: Mm. I I would hope so. Glenn Ordway: speed skill set and saying, Man, if we can get this guy to understand his presence out there on the route and where he is and where he needs to be, so if the quarterback's in trouble, he can still make the the the you know the the reception. And Pete Sheppard: He's he's got two catches this year for forty four yards. That sucks. It's I mean, why are you on the team? You know, they gotta figure and I you know, I wanna give him a little more time. I wanna see if they can. No, I know. but two catches Glenn Ordway: It's only game four, you've already said it, so don't be hypocritical. Go ahead. Game four. Pete Sheppard: of forty four yards for a a k a kid of that with that kind of talent. I I don't I don't how how much longer do you keep a guy like that on the team? Glenn Ordway: Yeah. I wanna bring up one other thing and then we'll Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: we'll we'll move on. But Dalton Kincaid really had been the binky for the first three weeks Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Y yes. Glenn Ordway: for for Josh Allen and he had really been the the guy he was going to when he needed to. And yet I thought linebackers did a terrific job w with Kincaid and some of the corners picked up on him at at times. He was non existent in the game. Pete Sheppard: Gee, he was either the second or third tight end choice on on FanDuel, and I used him yesterday. Fan and he was he was fan he Glenn Ordway: How did that how did that work out for you? Pete Sheppard: was fantastic for one catch and four yards, let me tell you, which that blew my mind. Jerk. I'm sorry, seven yards. Seven yards he had. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: He had two tar two targets. Two targets. And he had been the main target. Okay. He had been the main target for the first three weeks for Josh Allen. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: against those teams that we already said who apparently we thought were gonna be pretty good that actually did suck. All right. You wanna talk some Red Sox? Pete Sheppard: You're lucky I I awoke for this because we you know, I know we're it's it's Monday. No, I'm saying I watched the press Glenn Ordway: shut up. What else were you g what else were you going to do? I mean, give me a break. Sound like you were Pete Sheppard: I watched the press conference and that was a cure for insomnia. It was a the cure for insomnia. Holy Glenn Ordway: you woke up for the press conference. Yeah. my God. Where was John where was John Henry? Doesn't he usually attend these press conferences? Where where was he? Pete Sheppard: Hello, McFly, anybody home? Think, John Henry, think. I gotta have time to retype your answers. We always Glenn Ordway: You know, you would listen Pete Sheppard: realize what would happen if I handed in my handwriting to Craig Breslow. I'd get fired. Glenn Ordway: So the press conference had Sam Kennedy who did the opening remarks, and it was typical Sam. I I I I like Sam. Sam I like press Sam personally. Sam's a salesman, and we've worked with salesmen, okay? Pete Sheppard: Yeah. I mean I like Sam personally. I've interviewed I it's just Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: The sales weasels. So they're gonna try to sell you shit and tell you it doesn't stink, okay? They they that's how salespeople operate. And so Sam did this whole thing of, you know. We were great in the middle of the season and we really showed promise. And I'm sitting there going, but you this the results are are the same. Then finally he knew that he'd that he had to reach out to the Red Sox fan and say, But we know you're disappointed. Well, no kidding, because the the goal in in Boston is to win championships. Pete Sheppard: I hate that Charlie Brown wishy washy shit that that they s and Glenn Ordway: That's you got it. You got it. Pete Sheppard: that is. They sound like Charlie Brown. I can't stand it. Glenn Ordway: And then you had then you had Craig Breslow, who I would say, tell me if you agree, s he occupied 75% of the press conference. He did most of Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the talking. Chad Tracy did a little bit. So Chad Tracy claimed that all of the decisions that are made are made by him. Now he did admit that they do incorporate data, but Pete Sheppard: Y mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: contrary to what a lot of people were saying after they were eliminated by the Yankees, that it was all predetermined before the game. As to when the starting pitchers were going to be taken out, he said that is absolutely not true. He made the decision and he made it at the time. I I'm sorry. I I don't I Pete Sheppard: I'm not buying it. Glenn Ordway: I don't believe it, and I'm not even I'm not even being critical here of Chad Tracy. He just got his first opportunity at Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: a big league job. Eight games left in the regular season. The organization bought those thirty-seven games in which they were thirty-five and two and he got a new three year contract. What the hell do you think he's gonna do? Do you actually think he's gonna get up there and say, Yeah, don't blame me. It was Brez, it Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: was Brez. It was Brez. He's sending down all the data to me, saying, you know, get get him out of there. Get totally out of there. Pete Sheppard: He sent me players, he built a roster for me that can't hit a 95 plus mile an hour fastball. That's what I had to deal with. Glenn Ordway: Can't. That's that's what it is. And the Yankees, as you know, two pitchers they threw at him, fastball guys throw close to a hundred, and that's Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: that's what happened. That's what happened. But here's what I'm amazed at. The organization, and this is John Henry, because he's making the final decision, even though he wasn't there to to tell us about it with the press conference. They made a decision on Breslow and Chad Tracy. With eight games left in a regular season, and they based it all on I looked it up, Pete, twenty-three percent of the season, that thirty-seven game stretch in which they went thirty-two and five. So they didn't take into consideration September when once again the bats went silent. They couldn't get runners in scoring position home. All of the same shit that we saw in the first two and a half. Three months of the season, all was back again in September. But they took those 37 games, 23% of the season, and made a complete decision on the future of the Boston Red Sox and gave Tracy and Preslow new three-year contracts. I don't think I've ever seen this before. Where maybe if they did it, the the 23% was at the end of the season. So Pete Sheppard: Well, Joe Morgan got extension right back in eighty eight. I mean, after Morgan Magic and all that stuff. Didn't they give him a pretty good extension back then? and Glenn Ordway: Yeah, they probably they probably did. I'm I'm not Pete Sheppard: they failed in eighty nine, then they won it in ninety after the Larry Anderson trade that for Bagwell, which to this day I still will f will say they needed to, or they were not gonna make the playoffs. I'm sorry. It's Glenn Ordway: You know, I think there's still I think there's still time for Larry Anderson to get into the Hall of Fame. I I think he's still I think he might be on the veteran Pete Sheppard: Ha ha. Glenn Ordway: committee vote now, but there's still an opportunity. Pete Sheppard: People forget they don't win the they don't they don't make the playoffs without him that year. I know Bagwell ended up being Bagwell. But anyway, that's a whole other discussion. But yeah. Glenn Ordway: Right. No, that's the problem. All right, but get to this one. Twenty-three percent judgment is made. Why do you think they did it with eight games? Why didn't they wait the eight games? Eight games, everything changed, Pete. Suddenly we reverted back Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: to thinking about the Red Sox back in June twentieth. That's what what people were seeing. Why would you do it with eight games left? Pete Sheppard: Well well let me ask you this. Once they clinched once they clinched their playoff spot, even though they somewhat backed in, what that's they were gonna get it. And we as it was pretty much it was pretty much predetermined. Glenn Ordway: Nobody backs in. It's a it's a math problem. Pete Sheppard: It was pretty much predetermined there was gonna be the Yankees for about three weeks. That i i you know, they made that one stretch run where they cut it to two games and maybe they would have played that series at Fenway. They weren't gonna overtake the race. But do you think they got a little lax after they clinched? Because there was still what, how many games left? ten plus games left after they clinched. I mean, does that Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Well, they they they rested some people, but they weren't they weren't good. You take late August and early September, Pete. They were not like those thirty-seven games that we talk about were very unique because their pitching was really good up to June twenty eighth. That was not the issue with the team. The issue with the team is if they fell behind by two runs, forget about it. One run, they were done. They were cooked, okay? Because they could not score. And you could talk all you want about small ball, but they couldn't score runs. So it wasn't Pete Sheppard: Well, weren't you concerned the last series against the Yankees where they got obliterated? There's a four game but I mean they swept the Yankees in back, you know, ear during that streak, but they also got pounded by the Yankees, right? The la it was a three game or four game sweep. They got they got obliterated. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but the Yankees went through a long stretch. Yeah, the but the Yankees went through a stretch too. Cause there was Pete Sheppard: No, they did. Glenn Ordway: there was a chance that they were closing in on the race. That might have been late August or early September. And then they kind of fell apart as well. But they had, you know, Justice is out, Stanton is out, and they had a couple of other injuries with guys and they were trying to get their their pitching healthy. But the problem with baseball is it's 162 games. You can't judge Anybody on a 37-game stretch? Who's the Red Sox center fielder that I'm trying to remember? Used to have these unbelievable months, and then he would suck for the next three months at the plate. A great fielder. Why am I forgetting? Jackie Bradley Jr. So did you ever look at 35-37 Pete Sheppard: Jackie Bradley Jr.? Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: games of Jackie Bradley Jr.'s career with the Red Sox and say, my god, that guy's unbelievable. He's terrifying. No. You took into consideration 162 and And you knew exactly what Jackie Bradley Jr. was. Well, that's what happened to the Red Sox. And I think in the end, if you're wondering about why they fail in the in the in the postseason, it is not because of pitching. Breslau has actually done a good job starting pitching and certainly the end of the bullpen. Seventh, eighth, ninth inning is solid. It is terrific, okay? Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: Their problem is power hitting. And in the playoffs, it's all about pitching. And home runs. And you're seeing it already here in the last week and a half, Pete. That's how you win games in the postseason. And the Red Sox have no real home run threats. None. They don't have Pete Sheppard: No, they don't. And then you look at the raise. That's why it's so frustrating. They win game one, one nothing. They can win games like that. Then they can also win game they can win seven to six too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but look at look at the but they have they have hitters though. Look at Junior. I mean, he's a big time hitter. I mean, you've got power hitters in that lineup. Pete Sheppard: No, absolutely. But the Rays can they can win a game one nothing. They can win a game seven or six. It's they're gonna be tough. They are a tough they're they're they're they're Glenn Ordway: I hope you know what? I hope they win it. And I'll tell you why I hope they win it. Because it'll it'll stick right into the face of major league baseball as they're going through the collective bargaining agreement, which I think I don't know how you feel about it. I think this thing's gonna be a disaster. And there's no Pete Sheppard: Absolutely Glenn Ordway: way we start twenty twenty seven on on time. Okay. Pete Sheppard: I I totally agree. And and Tampa Bay winning the whole thing is gonna not help. It's not gonna help at all. That's in the commissioner's Glenn Ordway: No, because i because because here's the pr Pete Sheppard: sprayers guys. See, if you people scouted and spent wisely like the Rays have done basically for the last decade overall, you wouldn't be in this shape. Look at the Milwaukee Brewers to a degree, even even the Padres, by the way. Shout out to Bishop Hendrikins, Michael King. Phenomenal. Great job. In way anyway. Well, no, I'll just tell you, went to my high school. And but that's good, those type of you know, the Milwaukee's. Glenn Ordway: Jesus, here we go. Here we go. Anybody from Rhode Island is just, you know, yeah, well, it's great. Yeah, hold on. The d the difference was Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the difference was he graduated, okay? He graduated. He went to classes. He actually graduated, unlike you. But the the Pete Sheppard: I graduated. Glenn Ordway: point that that that I was bringing up with the raise, because you're right, the commissioner's gonna be stuck there. Because you have small market teams who right now are collecting money, tax money, from the big market teams. And so there's no incentive for them to go out and to to win a lot of games and get into the playoffs. Well what's the incentive? We're we're getting all the money back. We're getting enough people showing up in the stands. We create revenue and we're we're making some bucks. We're making Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: some revenue. But then you have the big market teams who don't want to share in the local TV revenue, and I don't blame them either. So the Yankees are making a fortune on their TV revenue. The Red Sox do very well. We talked about this. whole TV and radio revenue a few weeks ago. And the Dodgers are Pete Sheppard: The d the Dodgers are real off the chart. Glenn Ordway: it's unbelievable how much money they're making on the they don't want to like what happens in the National Football League where you share all that revenue with all the other teams. They don't want to do that because the Royals can't attract the TV audience the way the Dodgers can or the Yankees can. So now you have the big market teams fighting against the other big market teams. It becomes a complete disaster. So instead of having two sides and let's try to work this out, there's three sides. There's your menage a toi again. We got the three sides, and they're all Pete Sheppard: chinky. Glenn Ordway: trying to figure it out. It's a complete disaster. Pete Sheppard: I don't see. And I think it's I'll be honest with you, Glenn. I'm I'm thinking this that could stretch all the way to the all star break if if not the whole season. I will not be surprised if there's no baseball next year. I won't. Glenn Ordway: And for the Red Sox after the way this thing ended, ooh, ooh, marketing, that would be very, very difficult. Pete Sheppard: But here's the thing though, I'm wondering outside of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA Most fans don't give a shit. They don't care. They don't. Their teams have no chance to win. I mean, there's always a pocket of baseball fans out there, but it's still you got only a handful of teams that really and even though even though the White Sox and they made the playoffs this year under 500, and I get that. But they're still in that mark, one of those markets. Look at the look at some of the other markets. If there's no baseball, I don't I don't know if there's going to be a big cry, especially for those that have NFL and college football teams. Glenn Ordway: Well well well Tampa Bay Tampa Bay, you're down in Florida. Tampa Bay Pete Sheppard: Tippa Bay, Tippa Bay's all all all they don't they have the little bit of a core base, but they don't it's all visiting fans. It's all visiting fans. It's all Red Sox, Glenn Ordway: Well that's what I was just gonna Pete Sheppard: Yankees, Cubs. Same thing with the Marlins. It's the same Glenn Ordway: But they're good. Pete Sheppard: thing. Glenn Ordway: But they're a good team. They're a team that is worth, Pete Sheppard: I know. Glenn Ordway: you know, going to. Dicky Dicky V is the only one I know of that is a a diehard fan of that team. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Well well, this is what I said. I said maybe them moving to a new stadium is gonna attract a broader fan or people that are gonna go. But you're seeing you you're pr you are making you're making my point. Because Glenn Ordway: Don't buy it. Do you b okay, you live there. You tell me. Thank you. Pete Sheppard: because I said they don't they don't give a crap. They've had good teams before. Trapicanterfield is probably the worst baseball stadium, I hate to even call it that I've ever been in. It's awful. Glenn Ordway: By four. Pete Sheppard: All all the way, it's awful. And Glenn Ordway: By far, though we had a a a ball hit the roof elsewhere Pete Sheppard: I know. Glenn Ordway: the other night, that was kind of interesting. I thought that only happened at the drop. But you your point i is well taken. Pete Sheppard: I I don't get it. Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: That I think in most of these cities, if you're a baseball fan in Kansas City, you don't go to the ballpark on a Saturday and take the family out there because you're charged up because the royals are in the in this race. You go because it's an outing with your family, okay? Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: And you're sitting there. on your phone and you're probably, you know, doing other things. You're not engaged entirely into it. It's a little bit different in Boston. Philadelphia, it's different. As you know, it's entrenched. My father was a a Red Sox fan. My grandfather, and they never saw them win. They went to their grave. Pete Sheppard: Yep. Yeah. Yeah Glenn Ordway: They never saw them win. So you know what it's like. It's just totally different. So no, I think baseball the only way That baseball has a chance to have parity throughout the league. And the Dodgers winning for a third time in a row would be the worst thing that could happen to Major League Baseball this year. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: But the only solution, I think, is to come up with a salary cap so that you can have parity so that some of those other teams are going to have an opportunity. If they can't do that, Pete, and they come up with some convoluted math equation where This team gets so much money and this team gets so much money. Nobody's gonna understand. It's gonna be a complete disaster. It'll be like trying to figure out the NBA salary cap. You know what I mean? Pete Sheppard: I I would I well yeah, you and Jan Vogue were the only ones. Rick Bettino couldn't do it. which you which you succinctly Glenn Ordway: No, we could. Couldn't. I could have helped Rick Patino. Pete Sheppard: pointed out one day on the show. Anyway, but Glenn Ordway: I could have been an ally. Pete Sheppard: yeah, I'm I I I say there's I won't say zero chance, I'll give it a two percent chance of a salary cap happening in major league baseball. I just can't see it. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I don't think it happens either. No, I I I said this. I think what they do is they try to save face and they come up with some convoluted value tax that you pay. The Dodgers don't have to Right. Right. We'll Pete Sheppard: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Something they can throw out to the media that looks good and you know, no. Glenn Ordway: give a percentage of the media so there'll be a pool. So if the the Yankees are on the yes network, they can keep 80% of their TV money. We'll take twenty percent of it. We'll put it in a pool for the teams that, you know, are are are Pete Sheppard: Hmm. The Angels or the A I mean, the Angels are terrible. I mean the A's maybe Glenn Ordway: Mm right. Pete Sheppard: or the Portland A's. Glenn Ordway: Well, the A's might have a sh a a shot when they get to Vegas, you know, because it's a bigger more hey, listen, nobody thought the NHL team was going to do anything out of there. Not only were they hugely popular and one of the toughest tickets to get in in town, Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: and there are a lot of things you can do in Vegas, a lot of shows you can go to. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: It was not only a tough ticket, they won and they won right away. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And that was a major factor. And people did not think that. And so and the NBA's going there too, Pete. They're going there. Pete Sheppard: No, not only did everything went away, but they also you also you're also bringing in a lot of outside you know, if you're if you're a Bruins or a Rangers fan or Flyers or Pittsburgh, the the hardcore NHL T even Florida, I mean you're going out there, you're but you're going out there, you're buying tickets, and you know, there's a there's a lot of there's a fan base, the away fan base is pretty good in Vegas. It at least the first year, and now they got their fans are pretty loyal. I gotta say, they are pretty, pretty loyal. Glenn Ordway: They are. They are. And it's a show Pete Sheppard: Four. Glenn Ordway: it it it's a show t to watch the hockey team. It Pete Sheppard: It is. Glenn Ordway: really is. They put on it's it's Vegas. If you go there, it is Vegas. You are getting Pete Sheppard: Yeah, it is. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: the entire the show girls are there, okay? You're getting Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: everything, you know? And you get the the one armed bandits in the lobby, it's it's Vegas. But I will tell you this, since we're we're we're trying to fess up now after all these years of doing a show and and never being willing to say we were wrong. I'm I'm fessing up. I was totally r rr wrong about Vegas as well. I never thought that professional sports would work there because I thought there were so many other things to do that people would not want to go to games. But you are 100% correct in your assessment at least now. If you're from Nebraska and you've never seen a professional Hockey game before an NHL game, you're spending time in Vegas. Hey, honey, or hey guys, let's get away from the tables for a couple of hours. Let's go see a hockey game. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: And that's what was the attraction there. And you're right, they've got their base, but it's well beyond their base. And I was totally wrong about that. No, it's very expensive. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, and it's not cheap. It's not cheap. And I I and I'm kind of disgusted with Vegas when I was out there a couple of years ago for the Super Bowl. I just it's not the same. Glenn Ordway: Lost a few bucks, huh? Pete Sheppard: No, I didn't I played in one poker. I didn't have time. I played in one little poker tournament and I think I won $150 or something like that. but no, I'm just disgusted with what's happened. It's just you're paying $18 for a drink and there's not there's not the same, you're not treated the same anymore as you used to be. It's just I think it's completely changed. I I wouldn't go. I I have no reason. I will Glenn Ordway: Well Vegas if they Pete Sheppard: not go back unless it's some all exclusive paid trip or something like that. I have no desire to go back there. It's just Glenn Ordway: Well Pete Sheppard: I think it's completely changed. Now, if you're gonna go for hockey, that's a different story. They also have the sphere there now with all the concerts and everything, which is I haven't been there, but I've had friends that go, they loved Glenn Ordway: Fear's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's worth it. Pete Sheppard: it. Phenomenal, absolutely incredible experience, but that's different. Glenn Ordway: You know who owns you know who owns the sphere, right? No? It's James Dolan, the owner of the New York Knicks. So I'd like Carl Pete Sheppard: yes, yes. Yes, yes. James Dolan. Glenn Ordway: Anthony Towns to know right now the reason you're not going Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: to get the $270 million contract you want is because they need more money for the Wizard of Oz out in the sphere. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: They need to bring the Eagles back, okay? A bunch of boy bands. That's why you're not going to get the money. The money's going to the sphere. That's where it's going. That's crazy. Pete Sheppard: Yep. Glenn Ordway: All right, I want to get to a couple of other things. We love to talk about the media and we love to talk about our old experiences in the media. And I got a pet peeve that you know about from years ago. I was always pissed off that they never spent money to market our show. And people don't realize that there was never a dime spent to market our show. I take it back. The first year they hired Kevin Kennedy, the manager of the Red Sox, to do TV spots, okay, on on Nesson. The problem with that was Kevin Kennedy had to say our names and talk about our shows, and Kevin Kennedy wasn't a fan of sports talk radio. So we had as our spokesperson a guy that didn't like the fact that when he was driving home at night after a game, He hears Teddy Sarantis as somebody bitching and pissing and moaning about decisions he made during the course of the game. But that was our spokesperson. We did a series of cartoons for a while. Correct. That was the best thing. That that was by the way. Pete Sheppard: Larry Johnson, the late, great Larry Johnson, was on a van. That was the best thing. But that was probably trade. Did they spend money? I mean, they paid Larry, but I mean, he also did mugs for us. He did glas you and I together and the the whole shebang. There there was some but it wasn't enough. It was never marketed right. They look the we got some samples, but we it never got out there. When we did remotes and everything, you didn't see all that swag. Glenn Ordway: Pete, Pete, they used to go we used to go out to remotes and in those days we'd get big crowds that would show up at a bar Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: or whatever. And they would literally hand out these koozies. Do you know what a koozie is? It's one of those little foam things, that foam thing that Pete Sheppard: Yep, chip. No, I don't know what a cruise is. Of course I know what a cruise is. Glenn Ordway: you you put on a a can a can of beer and it had the call letters on the side. They were worth like 12 cents each. And those are what they what they were handing out. They never would hand out like I sitting there going, give tickets away. Give the big prizes away. Give Red Sox tickets. They were valuable in those days. But Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: no, they ne never did that. And the thing that pissed me off the most was when we were just destroying RKO. RKO part of the company, and Howie Carr's ratings were going down. And they started Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Then Glenn Ordway: doing commercials, promos for Howie Carr show on our show. So Pete would finish up The Flash. Pete Sheppard: Yep. Yep. Yep. Glenn Ordway: And the next thing you would hear before you would hear my voice back Pete Sheppard: Yep. Glenn Ordway: again would be a promo that would say, Hey, war breaking out in Iraq. You want to tune in right now to Howie Carr, you know, on WRKO 680. You know, he's talking about it right now. And I would sit there and you tell me, Pete, I Pete Sheppard: No. Glenn Ordway: would fume. I would be so pissed. So we're building up this audience. And the company, because all they care about. Is everybody in the company, the whole league? Okay. They don't care about individual franchises. They would be happy if they could move some of our audience over to RKO. It would do two things. It would help RKO that was struggling at the time, and it would drop our bonus money down because our ratings Pete Sheppard: Of course. Of course. Glenn Ordway: would drop and they would be more comfortable paying us a bonus here as opposed to here. Pete Sheppard: And then you remember the other thing that happened, and this is all connected. Speaking of WRKO, they took the Red Sox away from us, put it on WRKO for that Glenn Ordway: They did. Pete Sheppard: one year. We get we had Red Sox Wednesdays. Remember we had BF Fenway? What a joke. Because they thought everything you just said, but it didn't happen. It backfired on them. It backfired on them. Our ratings, I think, got Glenn Ordway: Did Pete Sheppard: higher. Yes, sir. They got higher and even though the team was good. But I'm saying Glenn Ordway: I I I was sh Pete Sheppard: imagine that they try I would that I was living the first what you talked about there about the promotions. But when they decided to take the Red Sox away from us and to help our KO's ratings, and it might if I remember correctly, it really didn't. It really did. Glenn Ordway: So I literally, I literally would would go in and and bitch because Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: they would run probably one promo per hour for Howie Car. And by the way, they were expanding. They they weren't taking away from our commercial numbers because we were sold out and we were already a heavy overloaded log of in those days, maybe 18 minutes of commercials an hour. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: Oof. We used to get ripped for that. Yeah, that was a lot. 'Cause people could only listen. It was like between flashes and everything, it was like, I don't know, maybe thirty-four, thirty-five minutes of airtime. It seemed that way. Glenn Ordway: It was it it was ridiculous. And so they would run one of these an hour. And here's what pissed me off even more. They would have the production guy down the hallway literally produced these twenty minutes before they were going to air them because they wanted to find out exactly what Howie Carr is talking about right now. So I went in bitching and I eventually bitched to the CEO of the company and I said, You're doing this, you're hurting us on the show Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: and our rating bonuses by doing this. But second Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: of all, w when is the reciprocal going to come into play. When are we going to start saying, the Red Sox just made Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: a big trade and promote it on WRKO so they leave Howie's audience and come over to us. Well guess Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: what? They never did that. You know what Mike the the response was? your ratings are already terrific. We don't need to do that. Pete Sheppard: And they did it for the other stations there at that at the time, ninety three seven was a music station. if you want great sports, listen W go to Bob Fm. Go yeah. Glenn Ordway: They promoted AAF too on on Dennison Callahan. They did. Pete Sheppard: Dennis and Callahan were livid. Jerry w they were both livid. I don't blame Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, they promoted AAF on them. It was it was just a slimy thing to do. And the and the problem is, and I know some people don't understand the nature of the of of the business, but it's extremely competitive. And the reason it's extremely competitive, we live and die with those ratings. I get hired, I get fired with those ratings. Pete, same thing. Okay. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, this is. Glenn Ordway: So it's ultra important to us. And so we had the same attitude that I think. most sports teams would have and that we were competitive as hell and we were gonna do whatever we had to do to win because it was how we were paid. It was our livelihood. And they didn't give a shit about that. Now it was up above. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, yeah. And we used to say to Jason, it wasn't Jason's fault. He had you know, it's coming from above. But we used to say but we used to say to him, Why are we telling other people to leave our show and our station Glenn Ordway: Exactly. Pete Sheppard: to go listen some whether it was music or Howie or whatever? It happened and we weren't and he's right, you're right. There was never any reciprocation. None. It was just like, you Glenn Ordway: Right. So Pete Sheppard: guys are so good you can survive on your own. All right. All right. And then the other thing used to my little pet peeve too. People are like, well, you didn't have any competition with sports stations. Sure, we sure as hell. Just because you didn't have another sports station, a lot of markets don't have a second sports station. Now they do. It's a little boy. But back then we're still competing with the top music stations in our demographic, 2554. BZ was it yeah. Glenn Ordway: We were we were we were going up against Opie and Anthony, we were going up against Tutcher and Rich in the in the later years at BCN. Pete Sheppard: Yeah, we Glenn Ordway: We were going up those were all male oriented radio stations. It wasn't Pete Sheppard: Yes. Yep. Glenn Ordway: just locked into sports, it was that demographic that we talked about a couple of weeks ago. They don't understand it. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: But you couldn't tell people. They tried to explain that to people. You tried to explain that to people and it was they they couldn't fathom it. I'm like, even B Z, the AM tenth, I mean, they were n number they were right there as well in in demographics, traffic on the three. Glenn Ordway: Well, it was like when people misunderstood, and I think this had a lot to do with critics just not understanding how ratings work. When we were bitching about not getting credit for the Providence radio station that went on the air, you know, one one three point seven or whatever. So we weren't we Pete Sheppard: Yeah. And that was a big signal. Huge signal. Yeah, one of three seven. Huge. Glenn Ordway: we weren't bitching that we wanted the Providence numbers. So pro Boston Metro Boston does a rating that comes out and the ratings are Boston Metro. They are the the surrounding communities around Boston. Then there's a separate rating number that comes out for Providence, Rhode Island. We were not sitting there saying we want the Providence numbers. Providence numbers are totally separate. Okay. What we wanted was the Boston numbers that were listening on the Metro Boston on 103.7. So Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: in the Boston rating book, you had WEEEI up here. But down on the lower part of the list, you had a number of people who were listening in Metro Boston to 103.7. In Boston, we wanted, Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: we wanted those numbers. You want to know why? Because the company was trying to keep those numbers away from us because they didn't want to give us bonus money on that, because that was driving our overall Pete Sheppard: Exactly. Glenn Ordway: numbers. So we were fighting our own company and then listening to critics who were sitting there go, they just want those Providence numbers. We did not want Providence numbers. We wanted legitimate Boston Metro numbers, but they happened to be listening to one three point seven. And they lived, let's say, Pete Sheppard: Yeah, people Glenn Ordway: in Milton or they lived in Plymouth. Yight, that's what we wanted, or Fall River. Pete Sheppard: Well, well then we'll get to the network that they formed also because of all that stuff. But let's remember, and people may forget 937 did not come in very well as you head towards Foxborough and Walpole. It really didn't. And that's where 103, that's where 1037 Glenn Ordway: No, you lose it behind the Blue Hills, Pete. You lost it yeah. Pete Sheppard: was great for us. And that was it was a great boost for us because not only couldn't they not get 850 back in the day, they couldn't get 937 in Rhode Island. And that signal, that 1037 signal was awesome. That thing went all the way through Rhode Island, Connecticut, and into Almost up in Iona where the colleges in New York, I remember listening to it at times. It was a phenomenal silver. Then they had a network. Then they went then there was a cape station that carried all our shows. There was one in Maine. There was one in Vermont. Remember? All that stuff. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but we never well hold on. We we never wanted credit for any of those. Let me try to explain it. There are meters that they have, you know, a couple thousand people in the in each market or carry a meter attached to them. The meter is able to pick up radio signals and tell what station you're listening to and how long you're listening to it. So if we had somebody, I'll bring up Milton again because I already said that. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: If we had somebody who had a meter in Milton, Massachusetts. And for some reason they couldn't get ninety-three point seven because they're close to the Blue Hills, and ninety-three point seven, as Pete pointed out, was not coming into their neighborhood, but they could get one three point seven. And that meter was picking up. I they listened to one three point seven WEEI or W VEI, whatever the hell they called it, in the Boston Metro. We wanted credit for those numbers. That's all we were asking for. The the the rating services are were giving us those numbers. They were crediting us with those numbers. The critics and some of the public, and you know, the critics of the radio Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: station were sitting there saying, they want something that they don't deserve. No, that is not true. We did not want the Providence numbers. I make a long story short, but I got to do this one more pet peeve before before we Pete Sheppard: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: close it out. The other pet peeve I had, and Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I mentioned when I started this podcast, people pointed out you got to You gotta use as your theme, living in America, James Brown, because that's what you're known for. Okay. Once people hear it, once I hear it, even though it's Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: got nothing to do with sports, you know, I think of the the old big show. Well, I did investigate about possibly doing that. And then I found out that I was probably gonna have to remortgage my house or sell my house, Pete, if Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I wanted to use the rights, if paid the rights to to use that music. So I said, nah, I'm not doing that. I'm a cheap bastard. So Billy Smith production man extraordinaire who's a great friend and a wonderful production guy and Pete Sheppard: Yeah, the best. Yep, the best. Glenn Ordway: he said to me I'm gonna I I go out and I'll dig music. I'm gonna find music. I'll get stuff for you and it won't be a lot of money. You'll be able to deal with it and it'll be, you know, rights free and licensed and covered for you. So I said, okay, Billy, let's do it. Well that's the theme you hear at the beginning and the end of the podcast. Now and I happen to like it. do like Pete Sheppard: Go on. Glenn Ordway: it. But Pete knows this. I have always had a hair across my for Pete Sheppard: It's fifty eight, fifty eight. Glenn Ordway: why EEI, and we were just talking about the marketing, never spent money on doing like personalized themes. The only personalized theme that they ever did. so. The the personalized themes, the only personalized theme the station ever put together was Ted and Fred, Ted and Fred, Ted and Fred. Remember that? And I'm Pete Sheppard: That's what I said. Glenn Ordway: sitting there going, wait a minute. Nothing wrong with Ted and Fred and doing a jingle with where it's personalized. It's a Saturday morning show. Like it's seven AM in the morning. We're doing afternoon drive, Pete and I. Why can't we have like a our own personalized theme? And so what pissed me off is I loved it, what the fan did. In New York with with Mike and the Mant. Pete Sheppard: yeah. Mike and the mad down. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: They had their own theme song. Pete Sheppard: It's so cheesy now, but back then Glenn Ordway: It was big then. Pete Sheppard: I love it. Doctor spots it as hard as we can. So corny. And a mad dog on the fence. my God. Here's my favorite part. Glenn Ordway: It is cheesy though. It really when you listen to it now, it is really cheesy. In those days in those days we thought it was cool. Pete Sheppard: Nothing could get biased. Turn it on and try us. And then right and then you'd have. Glenn Ordway: Okay Pete Sheppard: Money out to know. Glenn Ordway: So that's how they would start their show. And I was so jealous of that because I said, boy, they're creating so much energy right out of the gate. You go, you got Chris, he's like screaming. I said, my God, why couldn't Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: we do that? So they never let us do that. We never got the opportunity to to Pete Sheppard: man. Glenn Ordway: do that. But, but out of nowhere, Bud Light is one of our sponsors. And you probably remember the campaign. It was Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Real men of genius, okay? Correct, that's exactly who it was. He he came to our tailgate Pete Sheppard: Realme and was the lead singer for Survivor, God rest his soul. I forget his name. He came to the tent a couple of times, I think, even. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: party after all of this happened. So Butt Light was a really good sponsor, and the marketing firm, the the company that was producing all of their TV commercials now and radio commercials, said, Hey, I'll do a personal, we'll do a personalized one for you. And I said, You you would? Yeah, we're gonna do a personalized one for the big show, a a personalized theme or whatever, and we'll wrap it around, you know, Bud Light and real men of genius. And I said, Okay, that that that that's awesome. So they did that for us. And so Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: this is was the product. Pete Sheppard: Ha ha Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Tank you. Whoop! No fear. Work it awesome. No, not American job suit. Pete Sheppard: No. Glenn Ordway: No, no. Pete Sheppard: Mm. Glenn Ordway: All capital letters. did that Pete Sheppard: That never ran one time. Glenn Ordway: did that stroke my ego? I gotta tell you, that was but here was the problem: the station wouldn't let us play it because it's a commercial for Bud Light. We played Pete Sheppard: Did we play it once? I thought we did we Glenn Ordway: it, we played it a couple times, and then we were told you can't play it anymore. Pete Sheppard: Total, not yeah. Glenn Ordway: And actually, what I was told was, you're already bitching about the 18 minutes of commercials an hour. Why do you want to make it 19? And I said Because it's promoting the show. But yeah, Pete Sheppard: We had wine didn't we have winerline collars that did a parody of it for different that was hysterical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: We did. They once w when w because we told them we had to cancel it and we couldn't play it anymore because the station looked at it as a commercial. I got that. I understood that. It's a commercial for Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Yep. Glenn Ordway: Bud Light. and Bud Light loved the fact that we did that 'cause they would send over cases of Bud Light if you remember Pete. It was it was a good relationship. Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was. Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: yes, they told us we couldn't do it and then the Weiner Line lit up for a week with all these mock winer line things. Pete Sheppard: It was hysterical. Absolutely hysteria. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: So getting back to Billy Smith, our production guy extraordinaire, b Billy said to me, Do you really still have that yearning to have like your own personalized theme? They're kind of like out of date, but if you want it, you know, we can we can make it happen. And he said, Okay. And he said, So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna start sending you like one a week. You try them out when you're doing the show with Pete, and you guys can Pete Sheppard: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: judge on whether it it works or not. So I said, Yeah, but Are they gonna be cheesy? He said, It might be a little cheesy. He said, but they're gonna be really good and well produced. And he said, you know the the technology today, with AI and everything else, they can really produce some really good stuff. And Billy deals with bands. He records bands. That's that's one thing. He has a whole business Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: of doing that. So he knows this business inside and out. So here you go. This is the first applicant for The new Big O podcast as our new theme song. You tell us whether it works or not. Nice opening. Kind of smooth. It's got the saxophone, right? Pete Sheppard: Sounds like thank you for being a friend. Glenn Ordway: There you go. Come on, Clarence. Woo! Good voice, Pete. Make you smile, Pete. Pete Sheppard: AI voice. Glenn Ordway: That's you, P. cheesy. Good song. I gotta if it Pete Sheppard: I like it. Glenn Ordway: No, it's a good song. Broadcast legend Pete Sheppard: That's you. You. Glenn Ordway: God Talk Pete Sheppard: No Hall of Famer. Glenn Ordway: Talk about stroking somebody's ego, Pete. my God. Pete Sheppard: And we hate the globe. Da da da da da Glenn Ordway: it would have been a good line. Pete Sheppard: Just kidding. Glenn Ordway: Should have added it. there you go. Yeah, a little cheesy, I would say. Yeah. Pete Sheppard: Beacon of light! Glenn Ordway: Whew. Pete Sheppard: I'm writing that line down. That is that's that's great. Beacon of light. Beacon Glenn Ordway: What do you think, bad? Okay. Enough, enough, enough. Pete Sheppard: of a light, that is, that's not going away by me anytime soon, I tell you that. Glenn Ordway: Well, we got more coming every single week. We're gonna throw and then I want female the singers, I want I want a different styles. You know, I I think a little reggae. You know what? A little r I'm retired. Pete Sheppard: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I'm retired. You know, I go to the the beaches, I go to Caribbean all the time. Let's let's get some reggae. Pete Sheppard: That was an AI voice, right? Glenn Ordway: Huh? Pete Sheppard: That was an AI voice. That was what we think. Was that an AI voice? Because he sounded awesome. Glenn Ordway: No, that was that was real that was that was real, Pete. That was real. That guy is real. He is real. All right, buddy. Terrific job once again. You have a good week. I'll see you, I'll see you next week. Okay. Pete Sheppard: Hmm. Yeah. Hysterical. Good stuff. Beacon of light. Yes. Glenn Ordway: coming up later on this week, Bob Lobel will join us on the Big O podcast. And for those people that loved Dino, loved Kirk, some good news. Jerry is not far behind. So stay with us. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you like the big old podcast. See ya, Petey. Bye. Pete Sheppard: Like it's free. Bye.