Latest / Queer 101 with Peppermint / LGBTQ Rights, Body Autonomy & the Politics of Control

Transcript

LGBTQ Rights, Body Autonomy & the Politics of Control · Queer 101 with Peppermint

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey y'all, welcome to Queer 101.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Peppermint, and I'm Do the Historian, and we're here to bring you all things queer history that you didn't learn in school.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is a podcast where we dive deep into queer culture, books, and the queer experience, past, present, and future.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: From the history that shaped us to the culture that keeps us thriving, we have got it all covered.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Grab a seat and let's shine a light on queer history.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because these stories demand to be heard and must be celebrated.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Queer 101.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Class is now in action.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey y'all, welcome back.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is basically part two of last week's episode.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you didn't watch that, please go back and watch that.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can watch them in any order, but we are here for Queer 101, uh, the podcast where we talk about any and everything under the sun.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Peppermint.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Hugh the Historian, and I'm so excited to get back to our conversation about activism.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we were just starting to touch some of what was happening today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are listening to this, I'm I'm gonna make a few assumptions that you are in touch with the queer community.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: You have some idea of what's going on, but I can say that there is such a fire hose of bullshit happening right now that it feels like I catch some things, I miss other ones, and there's so many things to be talking about.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we could go on endlessly about queer history and the activism in history and how important it is, but I think the most important part of it is that we learn how to do better this time.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that is like top of my mind right now, and pet you and I were just talking about this, is what's going on with the Olympics, banning trans women from competing, and and in fact, how invasive these new policies are.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I knowing the history of sex testing at the Olympics, how badly it's been done, how much it has failed, how it was seen even just 30 years ago as laughable, it feels to me like we're backsliding on this issue.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I just can't even believe it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we are, we definitely are.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're seeing uh I think it's it's a it's the proponents of all these things have learned something probably over the past few years, that it's important to have people in positions of power that can do the bidding of whoever they want.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's what we're seeing.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of actually having people who are using comprehensive, scientific, proven uh, you know, information and and resources to with which to make their determinations about their policies, we're seeing people that are just basically saying, hey, we we we agree, we'll hold them out and we'll give this reason.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the even the reasoning is not very um, it's it doesn't appear to be that well thought out.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously it's not.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, because when you when it you go to even its logical conclusions, then it does di disproportionately impact cis women as well.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, when we think of how you're going to uh in um uh implement a ban against trans uh uh athletes, you know, at some point it has to be based on how how people look and present themselves and you examining them in a way that, like you said, is very invasive.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, hopefully the IOC can will uh reconsider.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the best we can hope for right now.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it in impact and the the effect of this, the impact of this is is is heavy.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to uh downplay it, but you know, creating a ban again about on trans women from this or that is really more about communicating to people who aren't trans that we want your support.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about actually effectively stopping an issue or a problem that has happened or probably is not about to happen.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's not about to be 5,000 trans women uh entering the Olympics.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Trans women have been competing at the Olympics for decades.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're not dominating every sport, they're not everywhere.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: But what this is gonna do, and it goes back to what you were saying last week about how control, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, sure.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you might think this is just the Olympics.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: But well, when does that sex testing start then?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you're an athlete that wants to be pro, that wants to go far, are you going to be tested?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is your coach going to want to test you before he takes you on?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is your school gonna test you?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is going to control the lives of so many athletes who are never gonna go anywhere near the Olympics.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's that that domino effect and who are not trans.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to impact cisgender women who are not trans because if you blend in, if you're trans, they're not gonna know.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they and only, you know, the only thing it's not like they're saying, if you're trans, volunteer, tell us you're trans, and then we'll test you.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying we want to get into the pants, into the blood, into the hormones of every single person coming through the door.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, if you have an ID checking policy, you have to do it to everyone.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing with these voter ID laws that we're seeing, yeah, you know, which kind of goes back to the uh birthright citizenship question.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so with the IOC, it is about sort of um, again, manufacturing consent and changing the entire tone on how people generally feel because you can't discriminate it against, you can't discriminate against trans people and ban them from receiving gender-affirming care if you require that gender-affirming care to get into the Olympics.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in order to have it go across the board, you have to kind of visit every single industry and say, y'all need to implement your anti-trans, whatever it is.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are you uh you're a bakery?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: You better figure out a way to ban trans people from the bakery, you know what I mean?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because then your your your your tactic of starving trans people and saying that trans people aren't allowed to have access to food won't work if the bakery is willing to sell them food.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of do it to everybody, you know what I mean?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it has to affect way more than just trans people, it has to affect many cis people, women.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean Khalif, she is a woman who's lived her entire life as a woman, and yet this sex testing is affecting her.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Castor Semenya.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think the the poster child of someone who has been so unfairly discriminated against, so demonized in the media, who is not a trans person, you know, and it's like I think it's terrible.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the banning in and of itself, yeah, and I think that's one of the things when we talk about when we when we think of when we talk about the framing of trans athletes, we talk about they talk about it as this grown male, grown men who are muscular, full of testosterone and all this coming in to your young baby toddlers soccer team.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the the imagery is a grown adult man with young female babies.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what team is that?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's not happening on any team.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: What we're talking about is we're talking about women's athlete, if we're talking of course it's to scare them.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: If we're talking about women's athletes, we're talking about women who are athletes who are more muscular than my mom, more muscular than your mom, more muscular than your sister.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: They've got if they're athletes and they've been doing this for a long time, their chances are they've got, yeah, they probably got more testosterone in their body than they have than the average girl that's not athletic walking around the street.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Pardon me.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're talking about people who have who are athletes, especially at the competitive level, who have a skill, maybe it's a natural skill, maybe it's an acquired skill that's above average, above the average person, above the average woman, and probably above the average man.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the science has come out recently to show that when it comes to most sports, contact sports, they're still examining.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to most sports that aren't considered high impact contact sports, like like American football, trans women do not have an advantage over cis women.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: That has been examined and reported and completely out there.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: The only reason that this um argument is being is floating is because people picture a man fighting a young girl.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what and they're like, well, of course a man can beat up a little girl.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the entire basis of this, and that's not what's happening.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think bringing up football is such a great example for me because I think about American football, and I think, my God, this is a sport that we know is incredibly violent, that leads to so many brain injuries as well as so many other kinds of injuries.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: If we are worried about children being permanently damaged, perhaps we shouldn't have a football program in every school in the country that gets money and coaches and bussing, and we don't even talk about those injuries and how we're possibly hurting children, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I mean we downplay the the injuries that that these athletes receive.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to the kids, we don't talk about it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we we talk about how great lit little league games are and pop football, you know, but yet there is real active danger to these children.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's what we're caring about, if that's the concern, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: That that these children might be permanently damaged in these sports, well then okay, ban all of football.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then I will believe that you actually care about this.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and talking about activism, I mean this is a place where I think athletes need to be speaking up, and I'm not talking about trans athletes who are already doing so much to just make it in their sports as activists.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is a place where cis athletes really need to be talking about how this is going to control their bodies, destroy their careers, destroy their sports.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: They have a platform.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm really hoping that more of them stand up.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know particularly straight athletes really need to come to the fore here.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's hard for gay athletes who are not trans to step forward on this issue, and for a lot of reasons, but like when the biggest voices out there are like fucking Martina Never Tolova being hateful turf, where are the other athletes?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to see more of them stepping up.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when it that goes back to what we were saying in the in the previous episode where, you know, when when it comes to people's activism and um, you know, how they get involved and when they get involved, a lot of times it has to be something that impacts their life directly.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be on either side, it can impact their life, meaning something taken away from them and they want to fight for it, and then they realize that their their needs uh are aligned with other people that might not be like them, but they're like, hey, you know, I'm not like you, but we both need this thing: healthcare, the ability to play in the sports, whatever it is, let's fight together because we're stronger together.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's that impacting their life that can be an inspiration, but then there's also the impact of the life, the threat of loss of access to jobs and things like that, which stops them from speaking out because that that athlete might not want to speak out against the IOC if they know that they have a scholarship that's in partnership with Nike or or whatever it's gonna be, and they're like, Well, I better not say anything because I'm gonna lose my my sponsorship.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, I think that that is the other piece of how it can impact people's lives in a negative way, in my in my opinion, and stop them from being involved and stop them speaking out and doing what's right, and sometimes in some cases get them to be to join the bandwagon, right?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and you know, so I I do think that that is I hope that that would lead us to the conversation of maybe we don't need to have money in sports the way that we do.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe athletes don't need to get paid five billion dollars to do something if they can't, if they're going to help further uh uh like a political regime by proxy, you know what I mean?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we're there shouldn't be so much money in politics.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: There shouldn't be because capitalism is entering every single arena, every single um industry, and corrupting it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Capitalism rules everything around me.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the the the uh cream.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um cream uh yeah, but I've I've not heard it like that, but it's cream um is uh is not um the the purpose of these industries.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: The purpose of sports should be to play the sports, the joy of the sports.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: The purpose of the sports should not be to become a billionaire.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: The purpose of politics should not be to become a billionaire.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: The purpose of any of these things should not be to become a billionaire, it should be to do whatever the thing is, the impact of the intention of the thing is to do.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think so much of that has gotten lost under capitalism, and especially now in this age of like venture capitalism, where it's like they buy entire industries to ask how can we make a profit off this while like killing as many grandmas in healthcare as possible, you know.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: But that's one of the many issues we are dealing with today.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned right before we got on this call, the UN adoption of slavery as a crime against humanity.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little more about that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple of weeks ago, I'm really excited about this.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the UN finally uh adopted a resolution that recognized not only slavery in general, but uh but American chattel slavery specifically, uh, which was, you know, we hear a lot of people saying, oh, slavery existed and throughout humanity.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's true, but it existed in a different way.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And American chattel slavery was very particular in in how it treated in in in how it obtained, how it retained, and how it maintained the system of slavery, and then also the impact of of that even after slavery was over.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh owning people, disenfranchising them, disconnecting them from education, disconnecting them from the ability to use their to earn any money because the slavery these slaves were unpaid.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: There is there is a notion of slavery that is low paid, low wage, you know.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds kind of strange at this point, but there have been a history of slaves in you know certain feudal systems and things like that where they're just working until they work off something.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: They work off a do a debt that's owed.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: They work until the thing is built, and then they're done.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they get paid or they can leave or they're free to do it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then be the fact that they were once a slave doesn't dictate the fact that they can it doesn't dictate or doom them to being a slave for the rest of their lives.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it also doesn't um impact the next generation, their child.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody worked as a slave in another country like 10,000 years ago, it wouldn't necessarily mean that their daughter was their daughter could be a king or a prince or whatever their daughter wanted to be.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but in American chattel slavery, the mandate was not only are you a slave and I'm getting your unpaid labor, but I'm gonna make sure that your children and your children's children and your children's children's children are impacted and indebted to the system that they will never be able to get out of.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they will be in a societal system that live in a society that will always see them as the bottom rung, the lower caste, and they will never be able to get out of that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that they're the the the we were gonna we're gonna connect blackness to slavery in a way that's inextricable.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so then even when slavery's gone, people will still look at blackness and be you'll still be the lower class.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what American chattel slavery did, which is a crime against humanity, according to the UN.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's late to the party.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I hope it's a good idea.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's shocking that that just got voted on.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's shocking, and it's also noteworthy to see what three countries voted against that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's three countries now, there's a lot of countries, a lot of countries.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's notable that most of the countries that supported it, almost all the countries that supported it, were what we would call the global global south.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Historically, in the last lifetime, we would have called that the third world, but we realize that that's not, it's the same fucking world.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh Western countries, many western countries um abstained and were voted just present and not did not want to contribute, chickens.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then the three countries that specifically came out against recognizing this were Argentina, which is a Argentina, Israel, and the United States, which all have a very particular and close relationship with each other and relationship to uh human rights or violation of human rights.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's also noteworthy that uh a few months ago the UN also passed a resolution that voted in the same way, these almost identical results, that food is a human right.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how could it be a good idea?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Food should be a human right in the United States that will drop a bomb in honor of furthering human rights is the first country to vote that food is not a human right.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because we live in this capitalist society and almost dominated world that says food, health care, water, land, housing, anything else you need is a commodity.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something to be purchased.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and it's something that should and will be sold to you, and you don't have a right to it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a travesty.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm thinking about what you just said about chattel slavery and what we were talking about last week with the court and birthright citizenship, and how those two things feel to be in such opposition to one another.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're stripping away birthright citizenship, or trying to, I it's not gonna work, but trying to strip away birthright citizenship.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that says your children will be citizens, they will have equal and full rights here.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you are someone who has been forced here uh to labor illegally, or if you are someone who is working here but does not have citizenship, your children will have those rights.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And how chattel slavery was the exact opposite, your children will have no rights, you know, and it's like it's like the things that they are unpeeling, the things they're taking away now, all feel like they are pushing us right back towards that slavery system.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's the same thing.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's the difference between class and caste for people.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I just want to keep belaboring this because I think I I remember myself confusing the two or sort of like using the two sort of interchangeably, and class is something that you can get out of.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Class is just a result, uh, and I'm no expert on this, but class is sort of the byproduct of your atmosphere at the moment.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have a job, so you can't pay right now.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the class that you're in, whatever.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it there is a cultural component to that, but caste is something that no matter how much money you have, no matter what how much education you have, no matter what you get, you will always be the lower type because that's what you are just that's the way it is.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you're born into, and that's who you are, regardless of what you wear, regardless of how you talk, regardless of where you live, you will always be on the bottom.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that someone who is, let's say, in this instance, um, black folks were born without access to education, they were born into slavery, things like that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Even a black person that was freed from slavery and got a job would still be lower, less of a human than a poor a white person that was homeless on the street.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that even was like Nixon's Southern permanent hierarchy to keep emphasizing that, saying, Well, at least you are not a black person in America, at least you're you know, using that racism to sort of like.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we're they're trying to hit us right back there.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think we could talk about this forever.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And Isabel Wilkerson, if by any chance you're listening, we would love to have you on the show.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: We love you, we love your work.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: If anybody hears this and you're friends with Wilkerson, please let her know how much we love her work.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But this is the end of us for today.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta we gotta stop, we gotta get back out to our activism, back to the streets, back to our organizing.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Pep, as always, it is so much fun talking to you.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hope listeners at home, you've got some uh things to get uh working on.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you were looking for a way to get involved and get active, these are just a few of our ideas, we want to hear yours.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, y'all.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, y'all.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is part of Pride House Media, hosted by us, Peppermint and Cube, produced and edited by Josh Rosenspweig with original music composed by Nell Balavan.
• 19:53
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• 19:58
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• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps others discover the show.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay connected and join the conversation by following us at Peppermint 247 or write to us at questions at queer101podcast.com.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening, and remember, our history is your history.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Stay proud, stay curious, and we'll see you next time on Queer One One.