Latest / Salish Wolf / #2 Paul Underhill on Founding a Functional Beverage Company, Defying Cystic Fibrosis, and Kiteboarding

Transcript

#2 Paul Underhill on Founding a Functional Beverage Company, Defying Cystic Fibrosis, and Kiteboarding · Salish Wolf

• 0:00
  There's many times in the rumble Journey where to ask the part of
• 0:02
  James or I feed known as a nice hardwood, you started.
• 0:05
  And we were probably, if we're really honest, there was times.
• 0:08
  We said, oh my God. No, this is such a big mistake.
• 0:10
  And then of course, just like kiteboarder you get up on a
• 0:13
  plane in your outside and stand upwind and it was all worth.
• 0:16
  It is the same with Rumble. Once you speak at these letters
• 0:19
  from people writing in saying, they give it credit for helping
• 0:22
  save their life because nothing else is working for them and
• 0:25
  they are on the precipice and they found Rumble and it made
• 0:27
  all the difference and you're like, okay.
• 0:30
  It was all worth it. Welcome to Salish wolf, a
• 0:37
  podcast bringing you inspirational stories of
• 0:40
  extraordinary Endeavors. I am your host Todd Howard.
• 0:45
  Just south of my Vancouver Island home as a tiny
• 0:48
  archipelago on which for nearly a decade.
• 0:50
  Lived a most astonishing animal, a lone wolf takea as he would be
• 0:56
  named survived and thrived and an environment where likely
• 0:59
  know, Walt had ever set foot in the process.
• 1:03
  Captured the hearts of the community and showed us even the
• 1:06
  most unlikely as possible. His story is not dissimilar to
• 1:12
  those of the individuals interviewed on this podcast.
• 1:15
  At some point. They each had to turn to their
• 1:17
  inner Lone, Wolf from there. They were able to lead.
• 1:21
  And Inspire. My intention is to share their
• 1:24
  Journeys to help you discover your own inner greatness and
• 1:28
  peace. This podcast is brought to you
• 1:32
  by Anchor Point Expeditions, where I provide life-changing
• 1:36
  personal leadership, Retreats for men coaching and other
• 1:39
  valuable personal growth resources.
• 1:42
  Visit Anchor Point, expeditions.com to see where
• 1:46
  your journey could take you. Have you ever met someone who
• 1:51
  earned your respect and devotion within seconds for me.
• 1:56
  Paul Underhill is one of these people.
• 1:58
  I've actually known Paul for About a decade but this
• 2:01
  interview is only the second time.
• 2:03
  I've had a conversation with him.
• 2:05
  The first time having also been in an interview.
• 2:08
  In my opinion. There is nothing not to like
• 2:11
  about Paul through his five decade long Battle of cystic
• 2:15
  fibrosis. Paul has not only defied
• 2:17
  survival odds, but he has and continues to show the
• 2:22
  inspirational power of the human Spirit while deteriorating, with
• 2:26
  each passing day. Paul launched a social impact
• 2:29
  bed. Bridge company while hoping to
• 2:31
  stay alive long enough to receive a double lung
• 2:34
  transplant, nearly 10 years later.
• 2:37
  Paul is thriving and so is his functional beverage known as
• 2:41
  Rumble. That is not only delicious and
• 2:43
  healthy, but as with the case with Paul serves, as a vital
• 2:47
  nutritional component for so many chronic Health sufferers,
• 2:51
  certainly, the last decade is not been easy and pollen.
• 2:54
  I discuss many of his losses and near defeats along the way
• 2:59
  including a tumultuous. Was period, where it seemed his
• 3:01
  world was literally unraveling while his company hung by a
• 3:05
  thread. But Paul and rumbler, tenacious
• 3:09
  and both have rumbled back and have emerged stronger than ever,
• 3:13
  alongside his physical struggles.
• 3:15
  Paul talks about his ongoing Spiritual Development and how he
• 3:18
  has been impacted by meditation, Qi, Gong and his relationship
• 3:22
  with his own mortality. Perhaps few of his successes
• 3:26
  would have been possible without the ongoing support of his
• 3:28
  friends, family and Business partners, and Paul's inherent
• 3:32
  drive for social impact, through his actions and his brand Rumble
• 3:37
  is not yet a Titan in the beverage industry, but it was
• 3:40
  built on the shoulders and with a heart of a Titan in life.
• 3:45
  This is Paul's story compressed in a 90 minutes of raw and
• 3:48
  humbling dialogue. It does not matter who you are
• 3:52
  or what interest you have. If he listened to this episode,
• 3:56
  you will walk away a richer soul and you will likely find her.
• 4:00
  Of cheering for Paul just as I do.
• 4:04
  Paul. It's great to have you on the
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  show. I've been really excited about
• 4:07
  doing this, with thanks for joining me.
• 4:09
  Thank you, Todd. You know, it's my pleasure to be
• 4:11
  here. I know we first spoke about 10
• 4:14
  years ago when I interviewed you for an event at Pacific Rim
• 4:17
  college, and I was so impressed with you.
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  And what was then your startup company Rumble.
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  And I know a lot has changed over the last decade so I kind
• 4:27
  of want to jump in here. Has yeah.
• 4:29
  Yeah. Hoping maybe we can jump in by
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  you giving a bit of an Update on what Rumble is and what it is
• 4:38
  doing today. And then then we'll dive into
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  the back story and come back around, full circle to a more
• 4:44
  intimate. Look at Rumble.
• 4:45
  Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
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  Happy happy to do that. So just to refresh a to your
• 4:50
  listeners who may not know the origin story.
• 4:53
  Rumble started with my own health needs.
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  I was born with cystic fibrosis her CF as it's commonly called,
• 5:00
  which is a genetic primarily long disorder, although it also
• 5:03
  affects the Pancreas and other parts of the body, but for me,
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  it's always been primarily along disorder as it is for most and
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  as part of that doesn't justify could breathing.
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  It affects your basically your metabolism.
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  Such that you really need to focus on consuming both enough
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  calories, and also quality nutrient dense calories in order
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  to maintain Optimal Health. So I've been doing that for all
• 5:26
  of my adult life and going back to 17 years ago, back before
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  from both going. I was having trouble. getting
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  everything that I needed easily in terms of regular foods, and
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  would supplement, with whatever was available time, which
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  essentially was poorly, made meal, replacements, or sugary,
• 5:44
  protein drinks, things things that we're not quite to my
• 5:47
  liking to the extent that I started making my own at home,
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  but to help my wife, whose health care practitioner and
• 5:54
  long, and short of it is my health declined to the point
• 5:56
  where I was really didn't have the energy or the time to be
• 6:00
  making my own custom shakes every day, and I just looked for
• 6:03
  So that I can buy this order to drink and after visiting my
• 6:06
  local health food store and natural supplement store.
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  I couldn't find anything. Like I was really surprised to
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  learn nothing that was ready to drink.
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  That was nutritionally balanced or nutrient dense or
• 6:17
  good-tasting. We're probably settled for any
• 6:19
  one of the three but unfortunately nothing to that
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  end. And that sort of was where the
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  idea was launched both. For people it myself personally
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  and with my original business partner, he was quick to point
• 6:30
  out that it wasn't just helped challenged individuals, but in
• 6:33
  fact, Any busy on-the-go active person or family would probably
• 6:37
  do well with something like this in the, in the cupboard.
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  So, that was where the company idea came from us over 10 years
• 6:45
  ago now and the product. Well, it turns out, there's
• 6:48
  probably a reason why that wasn't easily available, which
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  is that, it's very difficult to formulate and maintain the
• 6:55
  Integrity through the process of making it.
• 6:58
  But that was all learnings that we had years ago, and I'm
• 7:01
  delighted to say that after entering, Market and appearing
• 7:04
  on Dragon's Den. We were still here.
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  We did have a major cash Crunch and some challenges to the
• 7:09
  company that required restructuring.
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  But as a product, we've actually enhanced and improved since our
• 7:15
  original launch, and we're happily available.
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  Once again, all across Canada. That's great news.
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  If you don't mind, can you go into a bit of detail for our
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  listeners about what cystic fibrosis is and how it is
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  impacted you in particular? Yeah, happy to do that.
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  What we don't realize is CF is the most common genetically
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  inherited condition in Canada. And as such I believe it's I'm a
• 7:40
  been changed because it's, this is the framework will be
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  included in an umbrella of what CF is these days, but we have
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  tickets. But one and two thousand births
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  is somebody Barber c f and we be in a fourth way back when I was
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  born which is now over 40 12, 40 years ago.
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  It was really not well, understood and thankfully Canada
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  was one of the leading nations in research.
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  An inductor 89 took a lot. See Troy discovered the gene for
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  CF which was shared across the world and treatments have
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  progressed at still even though the median age kind of goes up
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  and for survival is being clue. More people like myself.
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  It's not a double lung transplant.
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  Unfortunately, I think the mode like the beige most the average
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  person guys is 27. So it's one of these diseases
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  that does take people often early in life in there.
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  Even before the teenagers. Unfortunately, I've lost 30
• 8:34
  friends myself to the disease at the same time.
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  We're really exciting time and see if treatment because there
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  are drugs coming on the market that are essentially Miracle
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  drugs. They don't cure CF, but they do
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  so much to effectively treat it that we're expecting.
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  This really push up life expectancy and life quality for
• 8:53
  people. See us just as an aside here in
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  Canada. Unfortunately, the most recent
• 8:56
  drug has not been approved and part of my advocacy work that I
• 9:00
  do is to see to it that BC and kind of a do it.
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  Prove that drug for all Canadians living with CF at the
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  same time. It doesn't affect me personally
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  because I have had a double lung transplant going on.
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  Actually, just over nine years. And I want to come back to that
• 9:13
  double lung transplant. Sure it.
• 9:15
  Because, I know that's quite a milestone for you.
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  Yes. Yes.
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  What, what is the daily routine? And someone with cystic fibrosis
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  has to go through timely. I was just talking about this
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  with the social worker from the CF clinic and it is is a lot
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  more than you might imagine. It's, it's an agency with covid
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  how quickly we've all assimilated to a new normal.
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  And I think the same thing is true of patients with CF kind of
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  like a frog in a pot of water. You don't really realize what's
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  becoming unusual because the new normal.
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  And so people CF quite often, they'll wake up and do a series
• 9:52
  of breathing techniques as I used to or long in busy clearing
• 9:57
  the lungs of the building of phlegm happens in the night.
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  Usually inhale medications to help.
• 10:03
  Break down the phlegm first, and then later on, you'll take
• 10:07
  medications, like antibiotics inhaled that, help quell or
• 10:10
  mitigate the infection that's on the sort of inhaled or are lized
• 10:14
  portion of treatment. There's also a myriad of
• 10:17
  pharmaceutical and vitamin like pills and supplements to go into
• 10:22
  taking things, help with digestive enzymes, for instance,
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  or help replace nutrients that are particularly challenging for
• 10:28
  people CF to absorb. And then, of course, inevitably
• 10:31
  just, as always have to do exercise move.
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  Just a healthy. It's actually critical for
• 10:36
  people CF to maintain as much activity as possible, which
• 10:40
  compounds the challenge of course of staying adequately.
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  Nourished. So many people CF end up being
• 10:45
  quite thin. Not everyone mind you but but
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  the vast majority tend to have a challenge in maintaining their
• 10:50
  weight. And so there's going to be
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  activity, they're going to be breathing, activities is going
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  to be inhaled medications and there's going to be copious
• 10:58
  amounts of pills often over 40 or 50 pills a day.
• 11:02
  Wow. How how have you evolved to
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  having CF over the years or how has CF evolved within you?
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  Well, as I said, I felt Lucky in that I wasn't particularly
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  hard-hit as a young child. I did know many kids to see us
• 11:20
  who had a much harder time that I did, for me.
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  It didn't really start hitting me really hard until I was in my
• 11:26
  early twenties, and I'd say, in some ways.
• 11:29
  He has had a very positive impact on me, you know, in the
• 11:32
  sense that it brings to Your own mortality when your friends are
• 11:36
  passing away at a young age and sort of reminded by the
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  inevitable fact that we all eventually will go.
• 11:42
  And so it encourages people encouraged me Tickler to make
• 11:46
  the most of my life to make the most of my time.
• 11:48
  And then to realize that we have the chance to not only look out
• 11:52
  for ourselves but have an impact on others and so cf8 improve my
• 11:57
  attitude. What would have been without it.
• 11:59
  It did make life quite challenging in my late 30s as
• 12:03
  the disease. Progressed and my world became a
• 12:05
  lot smaller, particularly want some was on oxygen 24/7 and
• 12:09
  quite weakened by the event, stated the disease.
• 12:11
  So it's not something I would wish on anybody, but it's I've
• 12:15
  adapted to have the CF over the years or private transport by
• 12:19
  concentrating What mattered most in the world and that lesson to
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  stay with me post-transplant, even when it had so much more
• 12:25
  freedom and abilities. It's kept me.
• 12:27
  Humble in the sense that even post-transplant your
• 12:30
  occasionally brought to an easy came by.
• 12:33
  Thirds H1N1, which I had or parainfluenza RSV shingles.
• 12:38
  Like, you're so much more susceptible to infections
• 12:41
  post-transplant that it doesn't say it helps.
• 12:43
  Keep you humble for sure. Yeah.
• 12:45
  I can't even imagine Paul and you are so active in all aspects
• 12:51
  and we'll talk more about that. I'm just curious how things have
• 12:54
  changed for you post transplant. Do you still have the same daily
• 12:59
  routine of phlegm clearance? Or is that something that's is
• 13:03
  that not? Not an issue anymore.
• 13:04
  Yeah. Thankfully, that is one huge
• 13:07
  change and it's not nothing. I have to worry about.
• 13:10
  Ironically. I do have intimately have to
• 13:12
  take the exact same inhaled antibiotics edited previously.
• 13:16
  Only now, for a completely different reason.
• 13:17
  I don't have CF lungs. I've got healthy lungs that were
• 13:21
  gifted to me, by, by the donor, who, of course passed away in
• 13:24
  order to make that gift. But at the same time, they don't
• 13:27
  have CF. They do have their own set of
• 13:30
  challenges in that being immune suppressed.
• 13:32
  It's much easier for me to pick up.
• 13:34
  Even I'm going to call normally non-pathogenic bacteria, things
• 13:39
  that wouldn't bother you or regular person.
• 13:41
  Our problem for me. And, as such a nice, it's a bit
• 13:44
  ironic idea of to take the same. Inhale medications is mentally.
• 13:48
  So that part is the same. I still take obviously, a lot of
• 13:51
  pharmaceuticals that are immunosuppressive for the most
• 13:54
  part and in addition to digestive enzymes, but the one
• 13:58
  thing that has changed is no more lone clearance activities.
• 14:02
  It's been changed. In that.
• 14:04
  And now do the same amount of time, actually, but it's that
• 14:07
  doing breathing exercises, mostly, but not exclusively in
• 14:11
  the form of Qigong. So, breath and movement together
• 14:15
  and people who don't know what she gone, this might be more
• 14:17
  familiar, chi chi, which is a particular form of Qigong.
• 14:23
  That's interesting. So you have adopted a Qigong
• 14:26
  practice. Yes, and the other to stay
• 14:29
  healthy with this. Yeah, and that's primarily
• 14:32
  because I mean I didn't do that, right.
• 14:33
  Way for transplants. I was more focused on all kinds
• 14:36
  of aerobic activity of. So, so eager to, to, once again,
• 14:40
  do the things that I'd done is a as a teenager, which was
• 14:43
  mountain biking and competitive Road cycling and something new,
• 14:48
  even with cyclocross. I've never done that before as a
• 14:50
  kid, even though right about it. So I was more into doing all the
• 14:52
  conventional and exciting forms of exercise that I had wanted to
• 14:57
  get back into. And I wasn't paying much
• 14:58
  attention to be honest to things like meditation and she gone,
• 15:02
  right? Clan of Trance.
• 15:04
  They're not that sexy. Exactly, exactly.
• 15:06
  But as luck would have it. You know, I may have pushed
• 15:09
  myself too hard. In fact, I would say a good
• 15:11
  lesson here is that he did push myself too hard, committed
• 15:13
  transplant. And the way that you see
• 15:15
  everyone being right now with with the covid crisis, anal,
• 15:19
  people being very careful and watch.
• 15:21
  That is that's exactly how we are.
• 15:22
  Instructed, post-transplant to approach, life.
• 15:25
  Don't go to theaters. Don't go too busy places where
• 15:27
  I'm asked. If you have to always wash your
• 15:29
  hands and Sarah and I would, you know, I would sometimes push the
• 15:33
  push the I'm not aware or forget to wash my hands.
• 15:35
  The second we came in from the grocery store.
• 15:37
  And as a result, I did get quite a few viruses that have probably
• 15:40
  had no need to if I'd been hyper Vigilant.
• 15:43
  So as a result of those viruses, unfortunately, my new lungs
• 15:46
  were. Well, I can't say, it's because
• 15:48
  of the viruses but those are probably contributing factors
• 15:51
  some decline that I've seen in the lung function after
• 15:54
  transplant. That is, it's not well,
• 15:56
  understood the exact mechanisms of the lung damage, but it is
• 16:00
  very common that a full 50% of people.
• 16:03
  Five years, post, transplant will have the same kind of
• 16:06
  decline that I've had and that makes it scary because it's also
• 16:10
  the number one cause of death post transparent.
• 16:12
  But it also, once again, you know, because the lessons
• 16:15
  learned from CF, it reminded me of this things I can do that,
• 16:20
  can improve the lungs. And one of those things is
• 16:23
  indeed Qigong and meditation itself helps to lower stress and
• 16:28
  cortisol and things generally cause inflammation in the body.
• 16:32
  So practice transplant. Want to call information for all
• 16:36
  kinds of reasons to do with lungs, being taxed and
• 16:38
  post-transplant. It turns out it's also very
• 16:40
  helpful to lower inflammation and the body's inflammatory
• 16:44
  response and those things coincidentally or perhaps not
• 16:47
  coincidentally. Those things are also, true of
• 16:48
  most determinative conditions in our society, whether it's
• 16:51
  cancer, or arthritis or obvious or Crohn's, we want to help
• 16:56
  quell the body's response to inflammation.
• 16:58
  And, and that's why these activities, like, meditation or
• 17:02
  chi gong. And nutritional approaches are
• 17:05
  all for me, primarily since the round lower inflation.
• 17:09
  Yeah, so I'm a practitioner of Qigong myself and I find it to
• 17:13
  be extremely grounding. I'm wondering what other
• 17:18
  benefits you've seen by now adopting.
• 17:21
  A chi gong, and meditation practice has it.
• 17:23
  Deep into your, your personal, and Spiritual Development.
• 17:26
  And anyway, great question because I see great because it
• 17:29
  really resonates with me and something that I've been talking
• 17:31
  about the friends lately. So I Of course with your gear
• 17:34
  back when you're cold, you're intimately familiar with the
• 17:36
  benefits. But for me, I feel I'll tell you
• 17:40
  one thing that surprised the heck out of me is I started
• 17:43
  doing chi, gong for the lungs and to see what impact it would
• 17:46
  have on. At the time, was a decline in
• 17:48
  lung function, that was quite worrisome.
• 17:50
  And I was really excited to see that.
• 17:51
  It seems to stabilize the lungs. But as you mentioned feeling
• 17:56
  grounded was probably the number one, most noticeable benefit,
• 17:59
  like more so than just meditation, which I think my
• 18:03
  busy mom. Mine was just getting used to
• 18:05
  the medication. Like okay, we're going to set
• 18:07
  for 22 minutes, the bells going to go on the next leap up and
• 18:10
  jumped into the day, the same kind of vigor.
• 18:13
  And instead I go from meditation to Qigong and a Qigong.
• 18:18
  You're moving with a little of the PC might.
• 18:20
  Have, if you're lucky, Ben is still to meditation goes into
• 18:23
  the movement. And with that comes the ability
• 18:26
  to integrate a little bit more grounded us throughout the day
• 18:29
  and the surprising benefit that I got was, I'd had lower back
• 18:33
  pain. On the last four decades, since
• 18:35
  I was in a car accident to merrily twenties and x-rays.
• 18:39
  And doctors had told me that in addition to the injury there,
• 18:42
  being degenerative, arthritis, and the lumbar spine that was
• 18:46
  irreversible and I have to live with it and it instantly like I
• 18:50
  simply couldn't bend over touch my toes.
• 18:52
  But after just three weeks of doing a 10-minute chi, gong
• 18:57
  exercise. I got off YouTube.
• 19:00
  I I was surprised my back pain completely.
• 19:03
  Lately cleared up and it's been that way ever since that I just
• 19:07
  get so excited to show up my physio.
• 19:09
  My chiropractor, ladies to see, I don't see them anymore and
• 19:11
  they're both like amazing. Like you keep with it.
• 19:14
  And that's been yeah, really cool, but if it for me, is just
• 19:17
  how I feel. Like I'm basically teenager
• 19:20
  games for my back, which was really surprising.
• 19:23
  Wow. That's incredible.
• 19:24
  Yeah, you talked about the immunosuppression and you
• 19:28
  mentioned pharmaceutically induced immunosuppression.
• 19:31
  Is that the primary cause Of your suppressed, immune system,
• 19:35
  the Pharmaceuticals. Yeah, it is without that.
• 19:38
  I can't believe I would be bang on normal.
• 19:40
  But I take three or four different.
• 19:43
  It means suppressive drugs, that have to be monitored regularly
• 19:45
  by blood work and kept right at the line between over suppressed
• 19:49
  where you sort of fall victim to any passing the virus.
• 19:54
  Or, you know, if you're not sufficiently suppressed, you run
• 19:57
  the risk of having the the lungs, effectively, the body can
• 20:02
  effectively fight the The new lungs, even though they've been
• 20:05
  around for, you know, almost a decade, the body still has that
• 20:08
  sort of suspicion, that doesn't quite recognize them, and that's
• 20:11
  a massive oversimplification. But even the doctors have a
• 20:13
  challenge in time. Describing what's going on?
• 20:16
  Because it's at the advance of the frontlines, you will of
• 20:20
  medical Sciences understanding their immune system and how it
• 20:22
  works in the body. Do you then have to be careful
• 20:25
  with any immune modulators or stimulants such as herbes?
• 20:30
  Like echinacea very, very careful.
• 20:32
  Yeah. It's Doctor, I'm not allowed to
• 20:34
  take echinacea or st. John's wort and because this
• 20:38
  area of science is so new. You'll have some transplant
• 20:40
  centers, advising their patients.
• 20:42
  You cannot take anything but water and food and you're
• 20:46
  playing with your life, you start taking, you know, vitamins
• 20:49
  and minerals and I'm a little bit more nuanced.
• 20:51
  I was really grateful to have a pharmacist on the transplant
• 20:54
  team in Vancouver when I first was post-transplant and can
• 20:58
  Vancouver and she was, she was stuck to the fact that I would
• 21:00
  knew how to research and could understand.
• 21:03
  The process from which the drugs can build up a classic example
• 21:08
  is, everyone knows grapefruit juice is interferes with set of
• 21:12
  chrome 34e, not forgetting my static women is but anyway, you
• 21:15
  can't drink it for juice because it will cause a buildup in your
• 21:19
  body of certain drugs. If you have to be on those
• 21:21
  roads, one of those skis tap Grimace, which is a drug I take.
• 21:24
  So what I do when I'm trying to decide whether or not I can take
• 21:27
  a supplement is I look to see if it's a known modulator of that
• 21:32
  cytochrome. And if it's not Going to affect
• 21:35
  or be processed by that particular enzyme.
• 21:38
  I'll then approached my transplant team and inquiry.
• 21:41
  What their thoughts are on it and have a dialogue.
• 21:43
  So I do take some supplements, but I have to be very careful
• 21:47
  not to quote boost the immune system and that's why it's
• 21:51
  challenging in these days of age with not just not just new novel
• 21:55
  coronavirus. But also there's a lot of
• 21:57
  seasonal viruses that float around that I don't want to get.
• 22:00
  And I have to be very careful about how I How I go about
• 22:06
  building a system, the best I can without jeopardizing.
• 22:08
  The lungs. Does that mean?
• 22:10
  You are also not a good candidate or recipient of
• 22:14
  therapies that increase the immune function such as
• 22:17
  acupuncture. Hmm.
• 22:20
  Wonderful, in sense of you're right, you're asking of
• 22:23
  questions. I myself have had and the answer
• 22:25
  that I've had so far is that it should be a problem.
• 22:27
  I have had acupuncture and I feel it Optics a benefit, but I
• 22:31
  don't have a lot of data. People that are you know, or
• 22:34
  evidence the Pillar To Post transplant who received it.
• 22:37
  So it's sort of living life as a n equals one study and and going
• 22:42
  with a very careful monitoring by lung function and seeing how
• 22:47
  effective It Is by any treatment that I try to get despite all of
• 22:53
  this cystic fibrosis, your double lung transplant, as you
• 22:57
  mentioned, you've always been athletically inclined and from
• 23:02
  my perspective you're and Extremely impressive athlete.
• 23:05
  What are some of your Pursuits currently?
• 23:07
  Hmm. I've appreciate the remarks.
• 23:11
  I don't necessarily think of myself is that athletic, but I
• 23:14
  do realize what I look at my interest overall.
• 23:17
  They certainly have been biased towards outdoor activities.
• 23:21
  And in the past kid, I really enjoyed cross-country running
• 23:25
  and in cycling was a young teenager.
• 23:28
  And it says that an adult. I'm coming around.
• 23:31
  I still think kiteboarding is Number one, set of favorite
• 23:35
  Pursuits. I was just out on ten days ago
• 23:39
  or so and I just, I just love it.
• 23:40
  It just it just fills me with joy, to be on the water powered
• 23:44
  by the wind. There's no lift ticket required.
• 23:46
  Isn't it snow expensive. Equipment, was once you made the
• 23:48
  investment, you know, my gear. So if it's over 10 years old.
• 23:51
  And so it's very economical from that point of view and it's very
• 23:55
  close to home. It's only five blocks away.
• 23:57
  It's quickly to get out. Skateboarding is my number 11
• 24:00
  Wheeling is a bit of a different thing altogether.
• 24:02
  That's a Look, the most people like an electric skateboard.
• 24:06
  Although it's quite different. It's only one big fat, go
• 24:09
  cartwheel, and it requires a little bit of balance and
• 24:11
  coordination, but less so than you might think because the
• 24:14
  motor helps balance you. And that's how I like to, to
• 24:17
  de-stress and evenings. I've had a busy day, is just go
• 24:20
  for one wheel ride and it keeps paying attention because the
• 24:25
  consequences are brutal if you if you happen to hit a pothole.
• 24:29
  So that's always a good one. Is that?
• 24:32
  Yeah. Does that work?
• 24:33
  Part of the body is a core exercise or know, it works
• 24:37
  anywhere cutie, mental acuity. That's what it is.
• 24:40
  Cuz if you if you get distracted while it, when will you know,
• 24:45
  like not to exaggerate but you really can go find up the board
• 24:47
  and break your wrists arms clavicle or knock your head.
• 24:51
  So it's it's it's not for the faint of heart, but it, it helps
• 24:55
  me focus. It helps me.
• 24:57
  Relax. It sounds ironic.
• 24:59
  I think it's the same thing with circle.
• 25:00
  I'm not much of a surfer. I would love to be a better.
• 25:03
  A stripper, but we don't have a Point Break caused by.
• 25:05
  So the one-wheel is the closest thing as it gets to mate sort of
• 25:08
  hybrid of that and look surfing snowboarding kiteboarding.
• 25:12
  But here you are an asphalt. So of course, skateboarding
• 25:14
  comes to mind. And the I guess the Paradox is,
• 25:18
  how can you say it's relaxing? If you're required, to pay
• 25:20
  constant attention, and I think it's simply that you learn to
• 25:22
  pay attention with more than just your mind.
• 25:25
  You're paying attention with your seat.
• 25:26
  You're feeling into the situation.
• 25:29
  Well, keeping your eyes and ears open.
• 25:31
  And when you do that, You still focused on what is happening in
• 25:35
  this particular moment that it helps quell down the propensity
• 25:39
  to be thinking about all the issues that any of us have to do
• 25:42
  with its family or whether that's in your work or stress,
• 25:45
  or novel coronavirus has. They also to fade to the
• 25:49
  background. Once your paint repetition,
• 25:50
  technically, I'm curious about bone fractures and the potential
• 25:55
  that because as I'm sure many know, pathogens are often stored
• 26:00
  in the bones and upon fracture. Latent viruses can be released
• 26:05
  into the system. I know you've suffered some
• 26:07
  Broken Bones. Have you had any health setbacks
• 26:10
  other than just the break as a result of those fractures?
• 26:14
  Mmm. Mmm learning things.
• 26:16
  And learning things. Todd.
• 26:17
  You're a man of deep knowledge. I thought I read something
• 26:20
  similar and they don't like to follow up this podcast about
• 26:22
  discussion about 50 short. My answer to you is not that I
• 26:26
  know of that said, I did fracture my femur and it was
• 26:30
  described as a Brutal shattering actually by the surgeon that put
• 26:36
  me back together and he said he'd never quite seen something
• 26:39
  that messed up. And just as an aside that does
• 26:42
  seem related to a drug that I took years ago to help
• 26:45
  strengthen and increase bone density, for Taoism of it was by
• 26:48
  injection. And at the time that I took it,
• 26:50
  there's anecdotal reports that my doctor dismissed say, no, no.
• 26:54
  No, this is no real basis to it. And that anecdotal reports were
• 26:56
  that, although it might improve bone density.
• 26:59
  It was rumored to be causing some unusual.
• 27:02
  Shattering type fractures, when in fact really great and I
• 27:06
  recently discussed this when you crawl, just after the shaft of
• 27:09
  the femur program that I had, and he said, oh, yeah, that
• 27:12
  those two anecdotes that were floating around when I took it
• 27:14
  later. Were confirmed to be one of the,
• 27:17
  if you will side effects of of it, but I'm off topic with your
• 27:21
  question. When I broke my femur.
• 27:23
  I had a brutal time with recovery, and I don't, to be
• 27:26
  honest, the king of cloud of pain.
• 27:28
  And I was different undermedicated for paying the
• 27:30
  first three weeks. I wouldn't have even, No, and if
• 27:32
  I've been what came of that, interestingly, I think it was
• 27:36
  actually some time after that. I got shingles.
• 27:39
  I've never thought about it until this, this moment to
• 27:42
  whether those two were connected.
• 27:43
  I did have check boxes a kid, which I think is supposed to
• 27:47
  confer the great deal of resistance to shingles as an
• 27:51
  adult. And so I was kind of surprised
• 27:53
  to get that and that was after breaking a leg.
• 27:57
  So, I mean, to the extent that those might be related.
• 27:59
  I don't know, but the quite curious.
• 28:02
  It to look into that. Yeah, I actually had a brutal
• 28:05
  ankle trauma, about six years ago.
• 28:09
  And I had been incredibly healthy up until that.
• 28:12
  And on the recovery from that that trauma.
• 28:16
  I had I developed all sorts of symptoms and I am full body.
• 28:20
  Itch. My hands were inflamed.
• 28:22
  My knuckles were my Knuckles, felt like they had razor blades
• 28:25
  in them. Wow, with time that passed, but
• 28:29
  it was actually my chi gong practitioner my teacher.
• 28:32
  It was also a body worker who suggested that I may have
• 28:35
  release some some Layton either bacteria or viruses into my
• 28:39
  system. Interesting, when that happens
• 28:40
  when that happens. It can be a heavy load on the
• 28:43
  system. I could imagine.
• 28:44
  Yeah, your own anybody's already taxed for a deal with the trauma
• 28:48
  of the facts. You're so that's very curious.
• 28:51
  Yeah, which which could also be part of the reason why, when
• 28:54
  elderly people suffer a fracture when they are, otherwise
• 28:59
  normally healthy, it can often be the start of a pretty
• 29:01
  precipitous. This decline in health.
• 29:04
  Yeah, that's that's so true. And I've noticed I had my mother
• 29:07
  actually broke deputies, 7475, and that was something that came
• 29:11
  to mind. We're looking into it.
• 29:12
  And also would, I think we also help explain what's
• 29:15
  discrepancies. Like, I know a friend mom, who
• 29:17
  is 92, who broke and broke her hip and she had no problems at
• 29:21
  all. And, so, what, what, what is it
• 29:23
  about about the elderly breaking legs or perhaps, and then having
• 29:27
  completely different, you know, some of its they go downhill
• 29:31
  quickly. Others bounce back quite well
• 29:34
  and perhaps that's a partial explanation for you.
• 29:36
  What you described? I think some of it can be
• 29:38
  related to what other previous breaks they've had.
• 29:41
  And what state of health they were in to recover from those.
• 29:44
  Yeah, because if they haven't had any major fractures or
• 29:47
  breaks up until their 75th year, then potentially the release of
• 29:52
  pathogens is going to be significantly larger.
• 29:54
  When Grange break it, of course, as opposed to multiple
• 29:57
  fractures, so maybe you and I did ourselves a favor by having
• 30:01
  our leg in Reason, yeah, consequences exactly.
• 30:05
  Well, for me, I also had the benefit of once again, a little
• 30:08
  clue from the University to slow down, which is something I'm
• 30:13
  sure you don't do very well. Well, it's a repeated less that
• 30:16
  I seem to have to take some people, my best to pay attention
• 30:19
  these days. Particularly Paul.
• 30:21
  I'm you mentioned your relationship to mortality.
• 30:24
  I'm curious now with your double lung transplant, 10 years past.
• 30:30
  What? And how has your relationship to
• 30:34
  that changed and is there? I hate to bring up the the
• 30:41
  phrase life expectancy. But is there a figure on that
• 30:44
  for you? Great, and I really appreciate
• 30:48
  these questions and I'm excited to to look into right now and
• 30:52
  see what comes up. So, two different things there.
• 30:55
  Let's tackle easy one. First.
• 30:56
  Let's expect to see, I haven't looked into it since transplant.
• 30:58
  I remember being kind of like disappointed around that time of
• 31:01
  transplant to learn that it was depending on where I looked it
• 31:04
  was like 7 years or 8 9, or 10 years.
• 31:08
  But it didn't reflect the ongoing development of these
• 31:11
  festive regimes and you looking back.
• 31:13
  Historically, it's not seems looking forward.
• 31:15
  Yada yada yada, but I never thinking, gosh, given what I've
• 31:19
  learned here. I'll be lucky to get 10 years.
• 31:23
  And now that I'm past on your mark.
• 31:26
  I am optimistic bow that I will I will definitely go longer than
• 31:30
  10 years and that it's not something that occupies much of
• 31:35
  my thought process at all, to be honest.
• 31:36
  So General question of how did my relationship?
• 31:39
  My own mortality change through c f and Transplant itself.
• 31:44
  It got real for me. If you will like really real and
• 31:48
  they might just prior to transplant, when I was on
• 31:50
  oxygen, 24/7. And I got to the point and I
• 31:54
  like to remind myself of this every now and then because it
• 31:56
  helps me appreciate my daily life.
• 31:58
  That much more. But I got to the point where I
• 32:01
  couldn't stand at the sink to brush my teeth.
• 32:03
  I had to sit and then I got to the point where even though I'm
• 32:05
  using an electric toothbrush. I couldn't.
• 32:07
  Even hold that. So my wife had to brush my teeth
• 32:11
  for me, but with the electric toothbrush, while I sat at the
• 32:14
  sink, and that's sort of, I think tells you where told me
• 32:18
  that I'm like, oh, I don't have a lot of ways to go here.
• 32:21
  I'm like if this gets worse, if it gets any worse, I won't I
• 32:24
  won't be able to report back. And and so I think at that point
• 32:30
  we were really good as human beings being in denial.
• 32:32
  We thought I was I was still like, oh, you want I'm just
• 32:36
  gonna get to the lungs put in and It's going to be great.
• 32:39
  And at that point, I realized I might not get your lungs and
• 32:42
  that required me to look really deep within and do.
• 32:46
  I tape it lit. A fire under my butt for what we
• 32:49
  call spiritual work, or self-inquiry.
• 32:52
  And I came out on the other side of transplant with new lungs and
• 32:55
  a new lease on life, but it didn't dampen my enthusiasm for
• 33:00
  self-inquiry and spiritual growth.
• 33:03
  And I think as a result of that, and even more so than my own.
• 33:08
  Evolving relationship with the idea of physical death.
• 33:11
  I've met several people along the way who have lost all fear
• 33:16
  of death. Whoo-hoo, son.
• 33:18
  Whom I considered close friends and I can look them in the eye
• 33:21
  and see the sparkle when they should have chuckle knowingly to
• 33:25
  themselves about the prospect of physical death.
• 33:27
  And that fascinates me and is giving me a great deal of
• 33:31
  confidence. I can't pretend that I'm in that
• 33:33
  same camp. I still quite attached to the
• 33:35
  living in the physical body, but it Has changed as a result of
• 33:39
  transplant and I would say as a greater degree of ease with the
• 33:42
  concept. Overall, as you are talking,
• 33:45
  this came up and I'm just really curious.
• 33:47
  I know nothing about this, but I have read that in some cases
• 33:51
  when people have organ transplants, they, by accepting
• 33:56
  the DNA of another person. They may actually have
• 34:00
  spiritual. I don't even know what the word
• 34:03
  is. Spiritual Awakenings or
• 34:05
  Evolutions, maybe even maybe Even feel tapped in to that
• 34:09
  other person in some way. Yeah, experienced anything like
• 34:13
  that in short. No, I haven't.
• 34:17
  There was some concern come out of transplant.
• 34:19
  My wife is having very concerned that I might have got lungs.
• 34:22
  As somebody who was, who had some personality characteristics
• 34:25
  that weren't aligning with my previous ones or our nation's
• 34:30
  put it politely and turns up. No, no.
• 34:32
  No, that was actually entirely due to the side effects of the
• 34:35
  drugs that they give you interesting way.
• 34:37
  The Meuse oxy. What was it?
• 34:40
  It's actually Percocet. It's a combination of the time,
• 34:43
  Oxycontin and acetaminophen. And they would, they may be
• 34:48
  absolute jerk. So I understand some people the
• 34:50
  past these drugs because it made them feel good.
• 34:52
  I can't even imagine that they made me feel.
• 34:54
  So grumpy is a nice euphemism for how I felt.
• 34:59
  But no to answer. Your questions is a great book
• 35:02
  called The Heart code written about recipients of primarily of
• 35:06
  the heart transplants. Who Ooh, yes, if I recall, it's
• 35:09
  about 15 percent of those patients do report, you know,
• 35:13
  some some changes that whether they're spiritual or so-called
• 35:17
  physical. These two things have been
• 35:19
  blurred for me of late, but they do report personality changes
• 35:23
  that are associated with transplant and it occurred to me
• 35:26
  given what we now know about the neural network around the heart.
• 35:29
  And sells these two think primarily being just in the
• 35:32
  brain, you know, this quota code quite a few narrow if I
• 35:37
  understand Directly, I know that working on boats heart and the
• 35:39
  gut. And so as we explore the
• 35:42
  relationship between having a healthy gut and probiotics and
• 35:46
  depression. I think I don't overlook the
• 35:48
  possibility to of when we cut out the physical heart of
• 35:52
  somebody and put it in another human being.
• 35:54
  There may be some crossover of the of the cells that are part
• 35:59
  of that. That's part of what we formerly
• 36:01
  thought it was being personality, or what have you.
• 36:03
  So, I don't know a lot about it. I have had the book recommended
• 36:07
  it to me and I've got my bookshelf, but I haven't
• 36:09
  actually read it. Well, it's interesting.
• 36:11
  And the practice and the philosophy of Chinese medicine.
• 36:15
  The heart is the controller of the Mind.
• 36:18
  The word for heart Shen is also the word for Spirit food.
• 36:22
  So there's, there's a great interconnectivity of the heart,
• 36:26
  the mind, and the spirit that makes perfect sense to me.
• 36:28
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:29
  Leading up to your transplant. Were you and critical condition
• 36:37
  at that point was the transplant, eminently
• 36:40
  life-saving, or how did that come about?
• 36:43
  Yeah, we talked about that, because I feel so indebted to a
• 36:47
  great number of people that are. Hopefully, I can sort of explain
• 36:51
  why that is so tense. Your question.
• 36:53
  I was incredibly poor condition, proud of transplant, and it's
• 36:57
  very worrisome for a family or person who's waiting for
• 37:00
  transplant, because if you go, so if you to and healthy, if
• 37:04
  you're so sick, like, let's say, for instance, that you were
• 37:06
  waiting trust fund and you got the flute, your awesomest.
• 37:09
  You cannot receive a life-saving transplant.
• 37:11
  If you got a virus that could very well, take you out because
• 37:14
  you're going to be massively music rest immediately after
• 37:18
  transferred, to the point that you cannot your body would die.
• 37:21
  Basically if you had the regular flu or something, so there's a
• 37:24
  lot of things that can take you off the list.
• 37:26
  If you're too sick, including having the body weight, be too
• 37:28
  low. And that's a big concern of
• 37:30
  people see us because they're struggling to To breathe and
• 37:33
  it's hard to get the food in some.
• 37:35
  My wife worked exceptionally hard at making, turns out
• 37:39
  homemade things in the blender, which essentially were the basis
• 37:43
  for rumble at the end of the day.
• 37:45
  So I was yeah, I was in very bad shape.
• 37:47
  I had a rare side effect CF which not everyone experiences,
• 37:51
  which is massive hemoptysis. It's called it.
• 37:54
  That's the medical term for it which is and blunt.
• 37:57
  It means sudden severe and copious amounts of blood you
• 38:00
  cough up and And you can actually remember asked my
• 38:04
  doctor about the time and want to put off any of your
• 38:06
  listeners, but they might want to have already said too much.
• 38:09
  But if they want us to want to cover their ears for a minute,
• 38:11
  just for one minute longer. They're sensitive.
• 38:14
  But member asking my doctor. Jeez.
• 38:15
  Does this mean I'm at risk of bleeding to death and he said
• 38:18
  no, no and I felt a little bit of relief and said no.
• 38:22
  No, it's more more likely that you'll drown in your own blood
• 38:25
  and I'll say she's like, you know, he was, he was a very good
• 38:29
  doctor, but it was the point way that he described that I was Out
• 38:32
  of the frying pan and Into the Fire.
• 38:34
  Yeah, and so what would happen if it happened at night?
• 38:36
  It happened suddenly and it was the most erotic elements of
• 38:40
  living with life post-transplant.
• 38:42
  So I pre-transplant was these bleeding episodes.
• 38:44
  Then unfortunately, there's no medical treatment for, they
• 38:47
  tried three times. You doing the procedure.
• 38:50
  I forgot the name of it. It's the effectively when you
• 38:53
  cauterize use heat to close the blood vessel, but they're doing
• 38:56
  this or the trying to do this in the hospital, embolisation is
• 39:01
  its It's called and each time. They try to things got worse for
• 39:05
  me. So I was in such poor shape that
• 39:09
  it was thought. At the time.
• 39:10
  I was on the list for Vancouver. They figured I wouldn't make it
• 39:13
  that wasn't going to live to see transplant.
• 39:15
  Given the average wait time and have to wait, time was about
• 39:18
  over a year for Vancouver the time and you could actually be
• 39:21
  living in Victorian just have a pager and get a helicopter.
• 39:24
  Should you receive the gift? But I've been on the waiting
• 39:27
  list for four months and I was declining so rapidly and I was I
• 39:30
  was almost entirely in the The whole time, the little story
• 39:34
  about being home with the toothbrush.
• 39:36
  That was when things are going well.
• 39:37
  When things weren't going well, I was essentially living in the
• 39:39
  hospital and then being attended to by nurses and I had a very
• 39:43
  good doctor, a team of doctors here in Victoria.
• 39:46
  One of them wrote to Toronto asking, would they consider
• 39:50
  allowing me to to come out there?
• 39:53
  And I think I'm going to Second patient in BC history for this.
• 39:56
  I was actually flowing up by air ambulance because I was, I was
• 40:00
  needing far too much oxygen for a commercial flight.
• 40:02
  Right, there's no way. I could drive the Rockies even
• 40:04
  if I can find Transportation. So I was flown by air ambulance
• 40:08
  from the hospital Victoria to st.
• 40:11
  Mark's Hospital in Toronto. I had to do about a week's worth
• 40:15
  of testing to get officially into their system.
• 40:18
  But when I was Finding listed on a Thursday night, they
• 40:21
  encouraged me to look. The average weight here is less
• 40:23
  than three months and you know, we're optimistic, you could make
• 40:26
  it and I was a little bit disheartened even that the idea
• 40:29
  of three months, but it was certainly better than when we
• 40:31
  year. In Victoria, and I was very
• 40:33
  lucky. I woke up on Friday morning
• 40:36
  after I was listed. I had the worst episode of
• 40:39
  bleeding that it had to date and but hour later I got the the
• 40:44
  news delivered from my nurse Grace that they had new lungs to
• 40:48
  me. And this is on Good Friday.
• 40:51
  Wow. So I was I was like one of those
• 40:52
  times where I was like, my father-in-law's a very devout
• 40:56
  Christian man, he was, he was next to her at the Good Friday
• 40:58
  service, praying hard for me and He came back went by the time
• 41:03
  you got back. We'd had the news with the new
• 41:05
  lungs, my wife, and I, and he can imagine his surprise and
• 41:09
  Delight. So, it went from being a very
• 41:11
  shocking. In really challenged situation
• 41:14
  where we didn't know whether I'd live to see transplant or not to
• 41:18
  being obviously a very joyous Easter Sunday weekend.
• 41:23
  Incredible, incredible. I am in awe of your spirit and
• 41:29
  your will to live and thrive. And yet, I think that those are
• 41:35
  somewhat rival by your ambition. Because during all of this, you
• 41:40
  were launching a company and and taking this product that had
• 41:46
  been your lifeblood in a sense your nutrition and you are you
• 41:51
  are making this available to to the world.
• 41:56
  Can you talk about the launching of Rumble and how it came about
• 41:59
  and how your health? Ruggles worked into this period.
• 42:04
  Sure. I'm glad you asked that because
• 42:07
  it does give me the opportunity to speak to the team behind the
• 42:11
  product. Going to support that.
• 42:13
  I received both personally and formal partly from the company's
• 42:16
  point of view like to give credit where credit is due
• 42:18
  because I have this rule to play as the Creator and co-founder.
• 42:24
  But obviously in truth you can imagine especially given how
• 42:28
  sick I was. There is a period of time there
• 42:30
  where I wasn't able to contribute very much at all.
• 42:33
  And in really, it's the strength of the team and the bond that we
• 42:38
  had at the time that really allowed us to get it to Market.
• 42:43
  But in general, you know, I was relatively decent Health at the
• 42:47
  time that I originally was formulating, rumble or would
• 42:50
  become known as Rumble in the kitchen.
• 42:52
  And so, with my wife's help, she was instrumental in pointing out
• 42:57
  to me as a color. A bit of a, you know, he's one
• 43:01
  of these Really specific label reader that reads every single
• 43:04
  ingredient has to know what it is.
• 43:06
  The time it going way back. Then I wasn't as likely to
• 43:10
  scrutinize labels. I was like, hey, if it tastes
• 43:12
  good or eat, except that's the advice people see a forgiving
• 43:14
  eat. Whatever you can just eat often
• 43:17
  and lots of it. So whereas I had been quite a
• 43:21
  Discerning she was and she had a little bit more knowledge on the
• 43:24
  effects of nutrition and health because her mom had died of
• 43:27
  cancer. So he was earlier in my wife
• 43:30
  herself had had cancer. Twice that point is now headset
• 43:34
  cancer, four times. So she was quite astute in
• 43:37
  knowing what to look for, and she helped me the time.
• 43:41
  And that was the origin where it came from.
• 43:44
  Our work together. Very quickly though.
• 43:47
  I realized that in order to make a company.
• 43:49
  I would require both expertise and then time from other people.
• 43:53
  So I reached out to a few dumb people in the first person that
• 43:55
  took it. Seriously was a good friend
• 43:57
  Steve and Steve had had some restaurants or sorry some
• 44:02
  Dancing Grocery and had some industry.
• 44:04
  That was experience. That was relevant.
• 44:06
  He and I co-founded the company. We call it grooves attrition.
• 44:11
  And that was back. Oh, gosh, I think two thousand
• 44:13
  and eight and nine and the two of us work together on the
• 44:17
  structure of the company and what it would look like.
• 44:19
  And we had very early prototypes from a food scientist.
• 44:23
  Thank you ver. And I think, Steven, I realized
• 44:25
  that he'd been off work at the time and it was something, he
• 44:28
  thought might be a full-time job.
• 44:30
  He got a full-time gig and I was starting to Health and that that
• 44:33
  forced us to reach out broader. And thankfully, I was able to
• 44:37
  reach out to a co-worker of my wife.
• 44:40
  Dr. Kim McQueen has a naturopath and that's when things really
• 44:44
  took off in terms of like having a third person in was
• 44:48
  instrumental in getting momentum going and as the product took
• 44:51
  shape. Dr. Kim was really helpful in
• 44:54
  inventing, the formula at the time and making some suggestions
• 44:58
  and improvements which were well received by All of us.
• 45:04
  And that then the ugly truth is, it doesn't matter how good your
• 45:07
  product is and how cool your team is, you need money and we
• 45:10
  didn't have anybody on our team who can do that.
• 45:13
  So, thankfully, her brother-in-law James of Queen
• 45:16
  came in, on at that time and ostensibly to help us raise
• 45:21
  financing. He ended up actually doing so
• 45:23
  much more than that. He was essentially like, when I
• 45:25
  was sick, he was the quarterback running the team trying to get
• 45:29
  financing advancing the research and development.
• 45:32
  Of the product. And I did essentially nothing
• 45:35
  for six to eight months there as I was sick and then coming down
• 45:38
  to transplant. It was very difficult for the
• 45:41
  team to get much done. You can imagine investors
• 45:43
  weren't Keen to invest when we. The Creator was was it was it if
• 45:48
  on coming back but when I came back after transplant I was able
• 45:52
  to join up with my teammates and help them complete the
• 45:55
  fundraising. I was able to help contribute in
• 45:59
  our dragons and appearance and from that time on On.
• 46:02
  I was able to channel my passion and drive to help the company
• 46:05
  succeed as part of the team, but it was really a team effort all
• 46:09
  the way and particularly when I was down and out.
• 46:12
  And what point did you get the idea to take this concoction
• 46:18
  that you and your wife have been creating and turn it into an
• 46:21
  actual product and ultimately a company.
• 46:24
  Yeah. It's only, it's not something
• 46:26
  that gets easily told if you've been to our website, which is a
• 46:28
  great website, by the way, for learning about the ins and outs
• 46:31
  of Dark Magician, there's a little brief Story video clip
• 46:35
  there and what's not told that story is the is the part of it
• 46:40
  where the aha moment came. And the simple simple version
• 46:43
  is, of course, having that need myself and not be met.
• 46:45
  I wanted to see the product but the hot as a, as it relates to
• 46:50
  why I thought Society was ready and why I thought it was overdue
• 46:54
  was actually road-tripped down to Baja Mexico.
• 46:57
  That was made 12 years ago where I was really.
• 46:59
  It opened my eyes up to at the time.
• 47:02
  Time. I just wanted something to keep
• 47:03
  me filled out for the road trip. That would taste good and it's
• 47:05
  healthy and walk into these convenience stores or gas
• 47:09
  stations or even grocery stores. And I might be a
• 47:12
  floor-to-ceiling, display of a whole wall of Beverages and
• 47:17
  everything was in there. Like so many different kinds of
• 47:19
  pops and juices and, and concoctions and not a single,
• 47:23
  one of them was officially balance.
• 47:25
  It was like, like meaning meaning my signatures.
• 47:27
  I mean, just having a healthy mixture of carbs and healthy
• 47:31
  fats. That's in protein and not to
• 47:34
  mention fiber, which is a sort of a bonus that we throw into
• 47:37
  Roma. But I just wanted something that
• 47:38
  was bounced macronutrient point of view and I was just shocked
• 47:42
  that everything was super high carb, but you get a supposedly
• 47:44
  healthier getting juice and 43 grams of sugar in it, but more
• 47:48
  in the Coke and then I'm like, well that's not going to help me
• 47:51
  as a diabetic, or even your average person.
• 47:53
  And then I'd go to reach to the protein drink.
• 47:55
  It was like, 32 grams, and feel - protein and artificial flavors
• 47:59
  and artificial ingredients and like zero carbs.
• 48:01
  I'm like well, Well, this is before Kido.
• 48:03
  So I didn't really understand what the point of having all
• 48:05
  that protein and no government it was or so you understand.
• 48:08
  It was, it was like this gaping hole from exception, the
• 48:11
  marketplace and I'm like, okay, it's not just for the people
• 48:15
  like me that helps challenged people regular people need to
• 48:18
  have a choice here. When they don't necessarily want
• 48:21
  to have to have a healthy so-called healthy Mouse owner.
• 48:25
  God, forbid, donut and the drink, you just wanted to have
• 48:28
  something that gives you everything in one ready to drink
• 48:30
  beverage and that was the What was the was the road trip down
• 48:34
  to Baja? And never, never seem to find
• 48:37
  anything that really gave me. What I wanted.
• 48:40
  Did you have any all tripping? Oriole experience before this
• 48:43
  nun? And I was actually.
• 48:46
  So sometimes we go against her our own nature and I've done a
• 48:50
  psychology degree Evac team that carried on and done a lot of
• 48:54
  grief, and I was pretty confident.
• 48:56
  I didn't want to practice law. I was fascinated by learning
• 48:59
  about the structures for society and the potential for For social
• 49:03
  change and all kinds of other motivations for law school.
• 49:05
  And in law school. I was one of the few law schools
• 49:09
  in Canada. Didn't make a course called
• 49:11
  business associations, or we call this as we, it wasn't
• 49:15
  mandatory every other school was mandatory and and 90% of people
• 49:19
  you can take that and I was like, I want nothing to do with
• 49:21
  business. I was just I was really cut off
• 49:23
  by the idea of business or law or anything that was so focused
• 49:27
  on what I thought felt at the time was like making money.
• 49:30
  Like it's not that. Money is of course necessary.
• 49:33
  But as I felt that had seemed to many of Wall Street, type movies
• 49:36
  and the focus on wealth Malaysian and growing up in the
• 49:39
  80s where it was so much materialism.
• 49:41
  Based it put me off. And so, lets, you know, here, I
• 49:45
  was as anti-business person, if you will realizing that there's
• 49:49
  this whole the marketplace and then suddenly boom, there's the
• 49:53
  whole Rumble thing, but subsequent to that I've
• 49:56
  realized, unfortunately. I have a very much a bunch of
• 49:59
  Perl mindset and I Actually, I've learned about business as a
• 50:04
  Force for good and I've seen how that plays out in a great
• 50:07
  example is Aaron Stevens CEO with his wife of Nature's Path
• 50:12
  and it's more than just that but just super impressed by those
• 50:16
  businesses like that that are huge and I've turned the serum
• 50:20
  Market on its head and the number one.
• 50:23
  Number one or number two were going to see romaker in North
• 50:25
  America and then luckily we've got lots of inspiring local
• 50:29
  businesses that are really, really not A cliche but really
• 50:33
  our Force for good. And so, knowing that business
• 50:35
  can be something that affects change in a positive way has
• 50:39
  turned my attitude right around as it relates to business and
• 50:42
  entrepreneurial is Amanda. And I do regret not taking that
• 50:46
  course of Hospital. I don't think there's any better
• 50:51
  business experience and jumping in and making mistakes.
• 50:54
  And yeah, well, we certainly made a lot of mistakes and I
• 50:59
  haven't always been able to share those easily because there
• 51:03
  when it happened in real time sensitive and but I can say
• 51:07
  right now, you know, our company as a result of mistakes, we made
• 51:10
  collectively as a group of people and even though we were
• 51:14
  sometimes feared Wrong by investors, that we gave too much
• 51:17
  power to Now back in a very comfortable place like me, we're
• 51:21
  down to just two James McLean as the general manager and myself
• 51:25
  two of the original four co-founders, but the the team is
• 51:29
  very small. At the same time.
• 51:30
  We feel very fortunate that we lost a lot of the equity we did
• 51:35
  make up for it with some excellent backers.
• 51:38
  In, we have Dave, orange dwarf at low and we're super handy is
• 51:42
  the three major investors behind us and they bring with them a
• 51:46
  wealth of experience and thankfully.
• 51:48
  We're all fully lined on what we want Rumble to do as a company.
• 51:54
  And yeah, these guys have each have their own set of
• 51:57
  experience, but we're still in particular, his is his family,
• 52:01
  runs the heart pharmacies and great, local pharmacy chain.
• 52:05
  And together, those three also running the Palm Group, which is
• 52:09
  a healthy grocery store, a set of Core Curriculum in.
• 52:12
  And I know that that mean that they know the health food market
• 52:15
  and they know how to support us and let's say we're Lying.
• 52:19
  So it's so much easier in life when you have the right investor
• 52:22
  partners and it's one Tipton one out there.
• 52:24
  Who's looking for investment. I would just tell them make sure
• 52:28
  you have the top quality when it comes to integrity and honesty
• 52:33
  and values and don't make any compromises their that's one
• 52:37
  place where we kind of compromised in our first version
• 52:41
  and it came back to bite Us in the butt at the end of the day.
• 52:46
  Yeah, that's quite a common practice in business, isn't it?
• 52:50
  It is unfortunately. And it's, you know, the time
• 52:52
  when you're desperate to launch, when you realize, well if we
• 52:54
  don't get any money, we're not this isn't going to happen.
• 52:57
  And yes, we were very lucky with exposure.
• 53:00
  These rags and to have a bit of a choice and the fellow we went
• 53:03
  with and I won't name any names but it wasn't that he was evil
• 53:06
  in any way, but just that you realize some Angel Investors.
• 53:10
  If they're investing in five to eight businesses.
• 53:13
  This guy's approach particular was go all the Go crazy, like he
• 53:17
  told us to go to the u.s. Instead of push us in the
• 53:19
  direction. We weren't ready for your
• 53:21
  undercapitalized and that had severe consequences and you
• 53:23
  realize that you're kind of a cross purposes if they're trying
• 53:27
  to go big and they don't care if they blow up a few companies
• 53:29
  along the way as long as one or two of the companies goes is
• 53:32
  successful. It's very different from the
• 53:34
  point of view of the individual company, which very much does
• 53:37
  matter. If you go bust and so you always
• 53:40
  have to keep those the different objectives involved.
• 53:42
  If you do work with that kind of an investor and it's something
• 53:45
  that think we. Removed too naive to at the time
• 53:48
  and not that we had any real choice to make who's to say
• 53:50
  without without that person's help that may have not been in
• 53:53
  the rumble. At the same time.
• 53:55
  I certainly wish we'd found our current investors a little
• 53:57
  earlier in the game. It's all part of what brings you
• 54:00
  to where you are today. That's very true.
• 54:01
  It's humbling. And it does.
• 54:03
  Sometimes you have to go through the tough Parts in order to its
• 54:07
  be cliche. But you go to the tough ones.
• 54:08
  It makes it makes the everything else seem that much better.
• 54:12
  I do want to go more deeply into your triumphs and struggles
• 54:15
  before. You that do.
• 54:16
  I'm curious if there was a moment where you realized, you
• 54:21
  were onto something and you had a company in the making or that
• 54:25
  this idea that you had was actually going to going to go.
• 54:29
  Mmm. The defining moment for me was
• 54:33
  to moments that are bookends one was walking into a Whole Foods.
• 54:37
  It was on West 4th early in the days and looking at the beverage
• 54:40
  case and thinking to myself we do they have a name for it yet,
• 54:44
  but I'm like I want this. Product to be right here.
• 54:47
  I want to be in this display case.
• 54:49
  If it was, I would buy it. I think other people would too.
• 54:52
  And I had the typical confidence that an entrepreneur has never
• 54:56
  actually been in business would have, which is like, this is
• 54:58
  going to see this kid sees you, he'll be here and that I had
• 55:01
  that kind of like can do going to Manifest this kind of
• 55:05
  positive attitude that I won't be denied.
• 55:07
  And then that was met through, struggle up to struggle and
• 55:11
  challenge. It's a challenge and roadblock
• 55:12
  after roadblock. That would seemingly make that
• 55:15
  wish Possible. And it was a sobering couple of
• 55:18
  years year and a half of like learning like, oh, it doesn't
• 55:21
  work this easily. And it's much more challenging
• 55:23
  and holy cow did know about this.
• 55:25
  How challenge it would be to work with these particular
• 55:27
  ingredients. And how do you protect fragile?
• 55:29
  Flax oil? That can't be exposed to heat
• 55:31
  light. How do you work that into your
• 55:33
  product that has to be kept, shelf-stable to all these very
• 55:36
  difficult challenges that had to be addressed.
• 55:38
  And then there was two years later when a sought in the Whole
• 55:42
  Foods on display. That was the yes.
• 55:46
  Yes, it did. This is going to work because it
• 55:48
  looks so good here. And it's selling well and I can
• 55:50
  just see it going from this little Vancouver Whole Foods to
• 55:54
  across the country and into North America, and American
• 55:57
  markets. And that was the feeling I had
• 55:59
  the time was like we've made it. We had more profitable.
• 56:02
  We were our sales weren't even that big, but that was the
• 56:05
  feeling of this. Is this, is it?
• 56:07
  It's real, it's now going to happen.
• 56:09
  So, of course, since that time not to repeat myself, but
• 56:13
  they've been significant challenges, but that was At
• 56:16
  least the marker work and say the effort has been worthwhile
• 56:20
  and it's very satisfying to see it for sale in Whole Foods.
• 56:24
  I think that fledgling entrepreneurial naivety that you
• 56:29
  kind of spoke of is something that without that naivety so
• 56:33
  many businesses would never have gotten off the ground because I
• 56:36
  know I was fueled by so much naivety starting my initial
• 56:41
  business and without it. I had.
• 56:43
  I known what was waiting? Which struggles?
• 56:46
  Go ahead. I probably wouldn't have done
• 56:47
  it. Yeah, that's so true.
• 56:48
  Tell it it's a it's a lot of kiteboarding when I learned
• 56:52
  which is exactly 20 years ago. Crazy.
• 56:55
  There wasn't the safety clip. There's now and they're
• 56:56
  certainly nobody getting lessons anywhere and you had to self
• 57:00
  teach on what is like ancient cave, man.
• 57:03
  Technology now compared to what's involved in terms of
• 57:06
  voting. And we, it was so hard, we were
• 57:09
  learning and I think they've known to know how to sail
• 57:12
  properly. I didn't know about weather and
• 57:13
  wind, I didn't know how to swim. So I Back at the challenge with
• 57:18
  chicken close to a year to learn to type board.
• 57:20
  And you can now learn three days at, you know, the lake through
• 57:23
  their good instructor, and it took us close to a year, my
• 57:26
  wife, and I learn together and it was so hard at any point was
• 57:31
  like, eight months in, if you'd said to me, like, if you knew it
• 57:34
  was gonna be this hard, would you have ever started?
• 57:36
  Absolutely not. No.
• 57:38
  No, no, no. And this many times in the
• 57:40
  rumbles or anywhere to ask James the part of James or I, if you'd
• 57:44
  known as Miss Hart, would you start?
• 57:46
  Added and we were probably if we're really honest, there was
• 57:48
  times when I said, oh my God. No, this is such a big mistake
• 57:51
  such a session, you know, and then of course just like
• 57:54
  kiteboarder you get up on a plane in your house and staying
• 57:57
  up wind and it was all worth. It is the same with Rumble.
• 58:01
  Once you speak at these letters from people writing in saying
• 58:04
  that it literally they give it credit for helping save their
• 58:06
  life because nothing else is working for them and they are on
• 58:09
  the precipice and they found Rumble and it made all the
• 58:12
  difference, you get that letter email and you're like, okay.
• 58:16
  It was all worth it in and that's certainly how it felt for
• 58:19
  most of us. It's, it is like you say naivety
• 58:22
  is the key ingredient to success.
• 58:24
  For so many to so many Endeavors, a little side note
• 58:28
  with a kite boarding was probably 18 years ago.
• 58:31
  I had a friend who was kiteboarding and probably right
• 58:33
  where you kiteboard off of Dallas Road and strong wind
• 58:37
  propelled him into the cliffs and he broke both of his wrists
• 58:40
  by trying to catch his body being really close.
• 58:43
  Yes. Yeah.
• 58:44
  There's definitely some Potential injuries, definitely.
• 58:48
  And I think that's, you know, coming back to your question.
• 58:50
  But we're tality and life risk and reward is that if each of
• 58:55
  us, we're all going to, we're going to approach the risk
• 58:58
  reward of any potential activity differently and much like George
• 59:01
  Carlin used to say when it comes to driving, even notice anyone
• 59:04
  that's slower than use an idiot and it was faster than he was
• 59:07
  crazy, and it's kind of the same thing with activities like I
• 59:11
  did. Some people look at me, like I
• 59:12
  was crazy to kiteboarding, the killer one Wheeling
• 59:14
  particularly, but I'm like Never.
• 59:16
  And then I have a friend who actually is one of those sort of
• 59:19
  friends acquaintances. Who does the squirrels eat
• 59:22
  timing? And I'm like, that is crazy.
• 59:25
  No, the he's like, you know, he's on a Facebook group and he
• 59:29
  he, yeah, but one or two of us, something each week and I wasn't
• 59:33
  he's a you for this moment and basically saying like it was
• 59:36
  like it was probably a month and it was like talking about people
• 59:39
  dying once or twice a month of this Facebook group, and I don't
• 59:41
  know how big the group is, but I just didn't like the idea of
• 59:44
  losing and You know, once a month or so and so that we can
• 59:48
  all just have our own activities when it's mountain biking and
• 59:52
  running which happens to be two things.
• 59:53
  I do a lot more frequently these days than anything else, or if
• 59:57
  it's something more risky. I just think it's funny how we
• 59:59
  each kind of Judge. Your own activities has been
• 1:00:02
  fine. But everyone else, even as you
• 1:00:03
  know, they're doing way too cautious or they're being way
• 1:00:06
  too crazy. So not to go too far off on a
• 1:00:09
  tangent and I come back to the forging of the rumble browned
• 1:00:15
  and The name. Hmm.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah. Well, that's another thing where
• 1:00:20
  I learned a lot times. We think we know and exactly how
• 1:00:24
  hard can this be like for the naming of this other thing.
• 1:00:26
  I'm like, why would we pay somebody?
• 1:00:28
  When I've got 500 friends on Facebook?
• 1:00:30
  I can put the things in. Hey, we want a name for this
• 1:00:33
  cool product. Here's one of the is, is what it
• 1:00:35
  does. You submit your favorite name,
• 1:00:37
  we're going to take this together, will form.
• 1:00:39
  As the time. This coupon is could do this.
• 1:00:42
  And then we'll get this massive list together.
• 1:00:43
  We'll pick the best name and we'll move.
• 1:00:46
  Move forward from that. And whoever wins will give him
• 1:00:48
  like to antibiotics, rid of these symptoms to turn and we
• 1:00:51
  got a long list of a really lousy names, you know, it's
• 1:00:56
  amazing. Just how how lame the names were
• 1:00:59
  like, I don't, and I don't mean that judgment.
• 1:01:00
  I mean, like, these are names that we conduct ourselves, we
• 1:01:03
  can was five and that was like, 20 names.
• 1:01:05
  And then we had all of her friends submit the best of and
• 1:01:08
  what is so interesting about branding in the name.
• 1:01:10
  Is that is that you come up with things you expect and it's funny
• 1:01:15
  looking back. List.
• 1:01:16
  Because at the time you realize it's full of things.
• 1:01:19
  I can't remember. Exactly.
• 1:01:20
  Exactly. But I'm reminded of Prana which
• 1:01:22
  is name of a local brand, you know, and also yoga stuff.
• 1:01:26
  He was always sort of the yoga and new EG sounding names in
• 1:01:29
  that list that at the time were quite kind of fun Trend.
• 1:01:33
  And that's exactly when we finally pull the trigger and use
• 1:01:37
  the brand good hearted, help us collaboratively and collectively
• 1:01:41
  come up with the name. They were like, yeah, you don't
• 1:01:43
  want to go with something. If you expect, you actually want
• 1:01:45
  some Thing that gives people pause and it's better that you
• 1:01:49
  irritate some people. Then it is everyone goes.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah, that makes sense because you don't necessarily want that
• 1:01:55
  because also years from now they're going to be like, what
• 1:01:57
  was that you called in and got him.
• 1:01:59
  I came up with that the time. Just to be honest, was Viva.
• 1:02:03
  I like this name of a div a cause it was like, it was a
• 1:02:07
  palindrome I think, as well. It was a, he could have it in
• 1:02:09
  the mirror. It was all like digitally and
• 1:02:11
  graphically peeling it and then I look back down and leave.
• 1:02:14
  Oh terrible. What was I thinking?
• 1:02:18
  But yeah, one of the names are reject lists, and it came close.
• 1:02:22
  I was one that I before anybody had come up with Rumble.
• 1:02:25
  I kind of like this, this one Ripple that we come up with
• 1:02:28
  because I'm like, Hey, we're going to be about social change
• 1:02:31
  and being like really far with cover social instability and my
• 1:02:36
  buddies kind of laughing like that.
• 1:02:37
  Is that is that is we cripple and they can, I kiss your Laden,
• 1:02:41
  but I kind of liked it. And then thankfully, we went
• 1:02:43
  back for another round and that's what the rumble.
• 1:02:46
  Came from was a list of 10 that was generated by our branding
• 1:02:50
  partners. And once they really decide what
• 1:02:52
  we are trying to do and it was very collect the rent, you the
• 1:02:54
  name of the group that we work with is called Monday.
• 1:02:56
  Collective woman in Rochelle Martin out of New York City and
• 1:03:00
  her business partner, Lisa, Simpson, full of all things.
• 1:03:03
  The two of them have come from a really well-known branding
• 1:03:06
  company that had won awards for for the work.
• 1:03:09
  They've done and they'd recently formed this Collective.
• 1:03:11
  But that's just a bit of an aside.
• 1:03:13
  They came up with rumbling a list of 10, we That before
• 1:03:16
  Mossad that we voted on it and it went right to the top of the
• 1:03:19
  list. So we came up with that with
• 1:03:21
  their help and that will say I really give them full credit, of
• 1:03:24
  course because it was one of the names they came up with but the
• 1:03:27
  number one pick of my teammates actually was something that I
• 1:03:31
  personally choked on prior to that round and prior to that
• 1:03:34
  final round where Rumble came up and whereas I'd like triple
• 1:03:37
  ironically there is now a brand called Ripple out of snakes.
• 1:03:41
  The pea protein company, which is very decent milk alternative
• 1:03:45
  for those that likes it. Each things right?
• 1:03:46
  I have seen that. Yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Anyway, so but they liked one thing was called big little or
• 1:03:52
  little biggest and some it was their right, these two Rochelle
• 1:03:55
  and Lisa were English and they come up with this.
• 1:03:58
  The idea being that we were going to have big nutrition in a
• 1:04:00
  little bottle of the time. We plan on having a 9 or 10
• 1:04:02
  ounce bottle on a Japan and my teammates for like, it's great.
• 1:04:05
  It's great. And I was the legal beagle the
• 1:04:07
  team and I and I looked up the name to see if it was an
• 1:04:10
  impediment to trademark. And I found a fudge company in
• 1:04:12
  Texas with the same name and I was like, sorry guys.
• 1:04:16
  I hate to tell you but it's taking it and they're like, what
• 1:04:18
  they've died and we loved it and the short answer, why Rumble
• 1:04:27
  Rumble is for us. It had this kind of stations of
• 1:04:29
  like, taking it to the big guys were ready to fight.
• 1:04:32
  We're going to take on the Pepsi and coats, the world that don't
• 1:04:34
  all these other brands, like, Sterilite to step.
• 1:04:36
  We're going to take it to them by showing, you can have this
• 1:04:40
  drink, but it's like foremost and health, and without
• 1:04:43
  sacrificing taste convenience. So, that was the It of like
• 1:04:46
  fight aspect of Rumble, but then we also like the idea that it
• 1:04:49
  was designed to feed your hunger.
• 1:04:50
  Original tag line was feed your hunger.
• 1:04:53
  And of course, we often get a rumble in your stomach before
• 1:04:56
  your before you beat me, if you're hungry.
• 1:04:58
  So we like that idea of associating hunger and satiation
• 1:05:01
  and, and taking it to the big guy.
• 1:05:04
  So, that's, that's the why of Rumble as any as any.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah. I'm kind of reluctant to say
• 1:05:10
  this because I don't want to turn anyone off, but when I
• 1:05:13
  thought of where Rumble maybe came from, I was brought back to
• 1:05:17
  your lung condition and I wondered if there was a parallel
• 1:05:20
  to the rumble from within the longest that never had never
• 1:05:25
  occurred to me, but no, not that part of it at all.
• 1:05:28
  But it's probably a better know that it's not.
• 1:05:32
  Yeah, I want to recognize and also ask you about this leap to
• 1:05:37
  work with a branding company because it's something that so
• 1:05:40
  many new businesses. Don't pull the trigger on.
• 1:05:43
  Yeah. You to the expense.
• 1:05:45
  Yeah, and they also oh, have this sense of inner confidence
• 1:05:48
  that they can do it on their own.
• 1:05:49
  Yeah, and I been guilty of that too with what companies startups
• 1:05:53
  and it's it is a huge investment, but it can pay a
• 1:05:58
  massive dividends. So I'm yeah, what was that?
• 1:06:01
  What was that experience like for you taking the plunge?
• 1:06:04
  Well, ice cream. Actually locally that, I think
• 1:06:09
  that a great job of the opposite, but I answer your
• 1:06:11
  question first for us, taking taking the plunge.
• 1:06:15
  Was reluctant. We were convinced me this code.
• 1:06:18
  We can do this ourselves and it's not that hard and it turns
• 1:06:21
  out it is, you know, in short, we spend a lot of time spinning,
• 1:06:24
  their wheels, waste their time and quality professionals.
• 1:06:29
  I think do make a big difference when it comes to branding and it
• 1:06:32
  depends on what you're doing. Like, you know for us to
• 1:06:34
  Consumer packaged Goods. See your brand is got to jump
• 1:06:37
  off the shelf because if you don't have a Megabucks marketing
• 1:06:42
  behind you which we did not in still, don't your Gene has to
• 1:06:46
  speak for itself. It has to it.
• 1:06:47
  Has to be the thing that causes a potential customer the.
• 1:06:50
  Pick it up, and turn around, and perhaps try it.
• 1:06:53
  Whereas other companies, it's not quite so critical.
• 1:06:56
  And I'm thinking of as a great local company, that deals with
• 1:06:59
  app developer called Fresh works.
• 1:07:01
  And they've changed as the reason I logged on this to see
• 1:07:03
  if they still have the same logo and it's changed but their
• 1:07:05
  original logo that did them. Well, it was something they got
• 1:07:09
  for like 10 bucks off of Fiverr or one of those collaborative
• 1:07:12
  internet quick logo companies. Yeah, so depending The what
• 1:07:15
  you're doing like this strength of fresh Works, was that they
• 1:07:18
  have a great model for business and they provided a niche
• 1:07:21
  service, where no one else is doing it.
• 1:07:23
  So it didn't matter with them over look like they're going to
• 1:07:25
  succeed for us. If we had a really lousy name
• 1:07:28
  that might have been the death of our company, right?
• 1:07:31
  From the start. Tell me a bit more about the
• 1:07:37
  Development of Rumble. As far as over the last decade,
• 1:07:40
  some of the struggles and the triumphs.
• 1:07:43
  Yeah, development was always fun from my perspective because it
• 1:07:48
  involves very personal you work with something that you created
• 1:07:50
  in the kitchen. And you're wondering what's
• 1:07:51
  going to come out. The other side.
• 1:07:52
  Is it going to taste better is going to taste worse.
• 1:07:55
  Are we going to be forced to make compromises on the judicial
• 1:07:58
  Integrity? They're going to cut the cut the
• 1:08:00
  legs out from under what we're trying to accomplish in the
• 1:08:02
  first place, or we go to maintain what we've got going on
• 1:08:05
  here. And so, It was always like a
• 1:08:08
  very living question, and we had to face situations, where we
• 1:08:12
  were being asked to make compromises and we didn't, and
• 1:08:14
  we refuse to stand down and that cause significant delays.
• 1:08:17
  So obviously, most companies will want to go to Mark much
• 1:08:20
  quicker than we did. We took years to develop Rumble,
• 1:08:23
  but the advice from her early, on some of that we took to heart
• 1:08:26
  was that, you know, the big companies, they rush things to
• 1:08:29
  Market and they make mistakes. It sounds funny to think.
• 1:08:31
  Well, they're companies should know better, but they actually
• 1:08:34
  they don't have the same level of attachment if Humble didn't
• 1:08:37
  taste good and didn't wasn't functionally.
• 1:08:39
  Good people. We were never going to succeed.
• 1:08:42
  It was a One-Shot deal. Whereas, if you're Nabisco or
• 1:08:45
  General Mills or Nestle, just one more product out of like,
• 1:08:49
  you know, hundreds and it doesn't ever matter so much to
• 1:08:52
  these to these big Executives. So they tend to take fewer
• 1:08:56
  risks, but they tend to just follow the status quo, which for
• 1:09:00
  years was, just make food cheek and don't make don't pay as much
• 1:09:05
  attention to the absolute integrity.
• 1:09:06
  The ingredients for the health of their to you.
• 1:09:09
  So for us it was a living question.
• 1:09:11
  How healthy camera will be. Will it continue to taste good?
• 1:09:15
  What will it be? You know, what will it cost?
• 1:09:17
  Like, there's one point there were it was looking like it
• 1:09:19
  might be eight dollars each and then we're shooting ourselves in
• 1:09:21
  the foot because you can't no one's going to pay eight bucks
• 1:09:23
  for the prepackaged drink or at least they actually do.
• 1:09:27
  But but then volume, let's just so yeah, it was really
• 1:09:32
  challenging in the early days because we had technical
• 1:09:34
  challenges primarily. How do you must Safai, like
• 1:09:37
  healthy fats like organic flax oil to use.
• 1:09:40
  And how do you make that thing to a drink?
• 1:09:41
  That doesn't completely settle after like a month and, you
• 1:09:45
  know, if you have to shake it, what if it comes spring at the
• 1:09:47
  lid, what you did in that first, first Olympic bottle, we had, we
• 1:09:51
  had so many people having problems with the pressure
• 1:09:54
  building up. And so, he's always like these.
• 1:09:57
  These challenges that we kept on, having to work with
• 1:10:00
  different food, scientist professionals, and problem
• 1:10:03
  solve. And ultimately, if I think of
• 1:10:05
  myself as anything, it's a problem, solver.
• 1:10:07
  I was very influenced at a young age by what now seems like a
• 1:10:10
  Cheesy saying, but it really worked well for me as an 18 year
• 1:10:12
  old, which was following met on a he was actually a tour guide
• 1:10:16
  on the computer. Like listen, there are no
• 1:10:19
  problems there, just challenges and to any challenge, there's a
• 1:10:22
  solution. And so me, the teenage Paul was
• 1:10:25
  like, that's awesome. I like that idiot and and I
• 1:10:28
  embraced it forward and that's how we kind of approach to
• 1:10:30
  crumble. You know, we're like, okay,
• 1:10:32
  there's going to be challenges that's obvious.
• 1:10:34
  But all we're going to do is be the Find the solution or finds
• 1:10:38
  the people to find the solution and to date that has been our
• 1:10:42
  experience. It has been really rewarding to
• 1:10:44
  see, Rebel go from sludgy inconsistent in a mason jar
• 1:10:49
  things at the food scientist in Vancouver.
• 1:10:51
  Through the first things that came up from our co-packer that
• 1:10:54
  were actually better than we had in my kitchen and I was like, so
• 1:10:58
  relieved. I'm ever doing the fist.
• 1:11:00
  Bump with my colleagues and doing the high five, with my
• 1:11:02
  wife meaning like, you know, we've made it makes up for that
• 1:11:05
  actually wants to do. Drink and keep drinking when I'm
• 1:11:08
  done. And that was that's always been
• 1:11:11
  a high point. For me was tasting the first
• 1:11:13
  commercial product and realizing that it tasted better than what
• 1:11:15
  I'd be. Making my blender.
• 1:11:17
  I love that. You have a contiki tour guide
• 1:11:19
  Mentor. Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Yeah. That's it.
• 1:11:22
  He's listening now. Craig's name was that was that
• 1:11:26
  was years ago ago, and I did come back usually.
• 1:11:36
  Really the cliche, is there for a reason, there's a bit of truth
• 1:11:38
  to it. And I think maybe there's a bit
• 1:11:40
  of Truth. In fact that I still called
• 1:11:41
  problem is a mental construct. You know, all there is is life
• 1:11:44
  is an evolving Kaleidoscope of various conditions.
• 1:11:48
  And you know, how we approach. A so-called problem has a big
• 1:11:51
  impact in how it lives with us and how we live with it.
• 1:11:56
  Let's talk a bit more deeply about the recipe.
• 1:11:59
  We mentioned some of the ingredients, but can you break
• 1:12:01
  it down for us? Yeah, from top to bottom in
• 1:12:04
  terms of like the big picture. I don't want to Scorpio.
• 1:12:07
  Anyway, it was boring terminology.
• 1:12:09
  So I'll do my best not to but we do have to kind of avoid the
• 1:12:11
  term macronutrients micronutrients are fat and fiber
• 1:12:16
  and protein and in micronutrients, of course, our
• 1:12:19
  vitamins and minerals and so forth.
• 1:12:21
  And we wanted to make sure that above all Rumble, had an optimal
• 1:12:26
  macro nutrient balance and with the popularity of low carb, high
• 1:12:30
  fat diets. These days, of course, there's
• 1:12:32
  some debate to the particular individual, what is optimal?
• 1:12:35
  And if you are one of the people, They're on a strict keto
• 1:12:37
  diet. It's unless you're highly
• 1:12:39
  active. You Rumble won't necessarily be
• 1:12:42
  your first choice. But for the rest of us, those
• 1:12:44
  that aren't tied to a strict keto diets, or if you are still
• 1:12:49
  here that if you happen to be active then Rumble presents,
• 1:12:52
  something that does have a good macro nutrient balance.
• 1:12:54
  And in that what I mean is for the average person who's got
• 1:12:59
  sort of like a moderately active lifestyle.
• 1:13:01
  You want to make sure you're having quality carbohydrates.
• 1:13:04
  You definitely need quality fats.
• 1:13:06
  And Particular Omega-3s are often deficient in the majority
• 1:13:09
  of the population. And if either, of course,
• 1:13:12
  protein is so important for us to have adequate protein and
• 1:13:15
  quality protein, to ensure that we have all the essential amino
• 1:13:19
  acids and it were given a body, what it needs to build a healthy
• 1:13:22
  immune system in to repair any muscle damage that they've
• 1:13:26
  resulting from workouts and or feeling somewhere that someone
• 1:13:29
  so Rumble, had to be neckerchief balanced.
• 1:13:32
  Have wrecked Harsha of carbs to healthy fats to protein and
• 1:13:35
  also, Survivor, that was the overall objectives.
• 1:13:39
  It had to be shelf stable because we didn't want to be
• 1:13:41
  dependent on refrigeration trucks and just the nightmare of
• 1:13:45
  logistics that goes into having killed products, and we wanted
• 1:13:49
  it to be easy to digest and taste good.
• 1:13:52
  So, those were over all parameters, and where we ended
• 1:13:56
  up is with the product has 20 grams of protein.
• 1:13:59
  Currently. Our grass-fed lineup comes from
• 1:14:02
  grass-fed cows. And that's a big plus for us.
• 1:14:06
  Us. If they were quite fat of and
• 1:14:09
  organic flaxseed, oil being the main source of the Omega-3s and
• 1:14:13
  a mix of a mix of carbohydrates that essentially allow us to
• 1:14:16
  have 20 grams of net carbs, essentially, to match up with
• 1:14:19
  the 20 grams of protein in a one-to-one ratio.
• 1:14:22
  And what puts us apart from any other beverage, the market I
• 1:14:25
  think is the omega-3 content. We currently have 2500 mg of
• 1:14:29
  Omega-3s from the organic flax and that's something that was
• 1:14:33
  really important. For me is a CF patient, but also
• 1:14:36
  as I am And from that Kim original co-founder, just how
• 1:14:41
  many people in a population are deficient in a mega threes.
• 1:14:44
  So, that's sort of the nutshell of the background on their own,
• 1:14:48
  the formulation, and I just want to underscore the in mega
• 1:14:51
  threes. I did another episode on Pacific
• 1:14:54
  Rim College radio with dr. Michael Lewis, who was an expert
• 1:14:57
  on head trauma and his primary prescription is through a mega
• 1:15:02
  threes because of their anti-inflammatory benefits.
• 1:15:06
  Well, that's good to hear. Here.
• 1:15:07
  Yeah, we are so deficient in those because of or imbalance
• 1:15:12
  because most of us are consuming more Omega 6s because Omega
• 1:15:15
  sixes are found and things such as soybean which is everywhere.
• 1:15:19
  Yes, and those are pro-inflammatory.
• 1:15:22
  Whereas the Omega-3s are anti-inflammatory.
• 1:15:24
  Exactly. Anyway, she something important
• 1:15:26
  to we wanted. At the time, there was a few
• 1:15:28
  products. Mr. Large, some out there that
• 1:15:29
  are soy-based. Saw it being one of them and we
• 1:15:32
  were like, wow, you just wanted to avoid all costs.
• 1:15:35
  So that was one of the parameters was they were What
• 1:15:37
  any soy? And we want to make sure we had
• 1:15:39
  the highest quality proteins and some people of course, in this
• 1:15:42
  day and age and for good reason, plant proteins and vegan diets
• 1:15:46
  or quite popular as people do their best for the environment
• 1:15:49
  and for themselves, and I myself had been having a plant-based
• 1:15:53
  protein prior to make a crumble. And but I've been having
• 1:15:56
  digestive difficulties and my natural half the time.
• 1:15:59
  It wasn't dr. Kim.
• 1:16:00
  A different person. Had said, you know, I think the
• 1:16:01
  problem here is these proteins and sure enough for me as soon
• 1:16:05
  as I switched to. To the Whey Protein, my health
• 1:16:09
  improve. And that was a big light for me.
• 1:16:11
  I was like, huh? Because I'm lactose intolerant.
• 1:16:13
  I couldn't drink milk and actually to be honest, they
• 1:16:15
  really don't like milk. And so I was like, haha.
• 1:16:19
  That was it was spicy. Miso.
• 1:16:20
  Like I said, our current lineup is grass-fed, but we've wanted
• 1:16:23
  for years to have something for our vegan friends.
• 1:16:27
  With the rise, rise in popularity, of plant protein
• 1:16:29
  were really excited right now to working working really hard on
• 1:16:33
  developing those for hopefully, you know, subject to what
• 1:16:36
  happens. Total covid.
• 1:16:37
  Think hopefully, launching this fall a couple of new new flavors
• 1:16:41
  for humble. That will be plant protein
• 1:16:43
  entirely and yeah excited. Yeah, but sorry that you were
• 1:16:47
  telling me about the biggest reason instead of writing said,
• 1:16:49
  no, but yeah, that was it. That was, that was what I had to
• 1:16:52
  say. I'm curious when you started to
• 1:16:54
  use MCT oil, that photo reformulation.
• 1:16:57
  So we did a restructuring after what we call Rumble 1.0 and I
• 1:17:01
  personally, you know, they've been some Evolution and what I'm
• 1:17:04
  going to be making it home. I do drink Rumble.
• 1:17:06
  Every day, but there have been some times when we head out of
• 1:17:09
  stocks where we just didn't have any product and some people that
• 1:17:12
  lived with us from the beginning.
• 1:17:13
  Might remember those challenging times when essentially either a
• 1:17:16
  co-packer was having challenges or we would have had a cash
• 1:17:19
  because it was simply really a challenge for us to have
• 1:17:22
  adequate cash flow with the rising popularity.
• 1:17:24
  Every product. We did was bigger and every
• 1:17:26
  every time we did a big product, when you come up with the cash
• 1:17:28
  to pay for it first, so in those time periods, but I didn't
• 1:17:31
  Rumble, I was making my own shakes and I was keeping up on
• 1:17:34
  nutritional research, although we lost dr.
• 1:17:36
  Kim. As part of a restructuring.
• 1:17:38
  We just start working with wonderful.
• 1:17:40
  Dietitian named Rachel, Dickens who was giving us advice and she
• 1:17:44
  was talking about the reasons for MCT.
• 1:17:46
  I was using empty to element in my home base shakes and with a
• 1:17:50
  recognition that people can see F particular once again and
• 1:17:54
  secure oil is a very good source of calories, and it was getting
• 1:17:57
  widely adopted by people in all kinds of communities.
• 1:18:01
  So, we, we saw a chance. There are people, some people
• 1:18:04
  are drinking it for brain health.
• 1:18:06
  Others for heart health and yet others gain that were part of
• 1:18:09
  some sort of the weight lifter or athletic crowd.
• 1:18:12
  So in that, in that time period with an increase in popularity,
• 1:18:17
  in the realization, that would probably make our formula but
• 1:18:20
  more robust. We switch to having a mixture of
• 1:18:23
  MCT oil and a little bit of grass fed butter as well.
• 1:18:28
  Have an original formulation and that one's of the more
• 1:18:30
  controversial. I don't want to bore people with
• 1:18:32
  my own personal arguments, but I was really excited to get grass
• 1:18:35
  fed butter. They're, in fact, the still, I
• 1:18:38
  think, hesitancy in the main Market to, to the understanding
• 1:18:42
  of what when and where are saturated fats.
• 1:18:44
  Okay, and can, should we in fact have more healthy saturated
• 1:18:48
  fats, like coconut investment better or do they still possess
• 1:18:52
  the problem? I don't want to say get into it
• 1:18:54
  right now, but my I will say that my from my own personal
• 1:18:57
  help. I do use grass-fed butter at
• 1:18:59
  home on a daily basis. And I really like what those MCT
• 1:19:02
  oil are interested better do for me, my energy levels, but I
• 1:19:06
  don't want to, you know, more people with with that and I'm
• 1:19:11
  very familiar with the, some of the concerns of the contrarian.
• 1:19:14
  And those that are more, I guess you could say, traditionally
• 1:19:17
  minded as it comes to saturated fats.
• 1:19:21
  Both of my children request from their grandmother, every
• 1:19:24
  Christmas a blocker, grass-fed butter.
• 1:19:25
  Oh, well, there you go. There's also a lot of good
• 1:19:33
  science behind as well. Of course.
• 1:19:35
  So Paul, I want to take a look into kind of a dark period that
• 1:19:42
  I know you don't know, went into with both the company and with
• 1:19:45
  your own personal life. I believe sometime around
• 1:19:48
  2016-17, perhaps I may have some of these figures or information
• 1:19:56
  a bit skewed or wrong. So hopefully, you'll be able to
• 1:19:58
  correct me on it. Sure, but I know you already
• 1:20:01
  spoke briefly of having a bit of a Troubled relationship with one
• 1:20:06
  of your main investors expanding potentially to rapidly into the
• 1:20:10
  u.s. Yeah, and then I know you also
• 1:20:12
  had some you broke your leg and then you had some family health
• 1:20:16
  struggles as well. Oh, yeah.
• 1:20:18
  It was a brutal stretch of time where and let me get the ordered
• 1:20:22
  slain mix of a basically we had increasing Financial challenges
• 1:20:26
  as a company with run bone and at its core, you know, it's not
• 1:20:32
  to say there's only one thing that was Still others, but
• 1:20:35
  definitely going to early to the US and more importantly, go into
• 1:20:40
  broadly in the US we were for sale at Whole Foods in
• 1:20:43
  California, but also in like Atlantic City and also, in
• 1:20:46
  Hawaii, we had we didn't need a very small team of scientists.
• 1:20:50
  Seven people trying to support that.
• 1:20:52
  No, no, internal sales team won, one person working for us in the
• 1:20:56
  whole of the u.s. So it was, it was massively
• 1:20:59
  stressful to, to be, to be bearing witness to essentially,
• 1:21:03
  what was the slow. Whoa, grunting down at the
• 1:21:06
  company and seeing that the financial collapse was
• 1:21:08
  practically imminent, and grasping at straws and my friend
• 1:21:11
  James particular working his butt off to do everything
• 1:21:15
  possible to find. S alternate sources of capital
• 1:21:19
  to avoid collapse of the company, that was on the company
• 1:21:21
  side, on my personal side. I was dealing with, I'd had in
• 1:21:25
  October. I'd had the broken femur.
• 1:21:30
  Sometimes the months after that. I had the shingles as we were
• 1:21:32
  discussing earlier, my Moment broke your hip and then gosh,
• 1:21:38
  what happened. Then?
• 1:21:39
  I think I had to my dad had cancer and but he was doing
• 1:21:43
  moderately. Okay, we'd had him into the
• 1:21:44
  hospital to check on on his status and it said, you know,
• 1:21:49
  he's actually doing quite well, definitely into early for for
• 1:21:53
  hospice, which we thought we should just sort of check on
• 1:21:56
  that. And I'm the very day that we've
• 1:21:57
  got the thumbs up from the doctor like he's good to go
• 1:21:59
  home. He's he doesn't need you to ask
• 1:22:01
  this. I went in for surgery for
• 1:22:03
  abdominal surgery. And woke up to the news that he
• 1:22:06
  had passed during surgery and my mom, my mom died, just five
• 1:22:10
  weeks later today. So that was just obviously.
• 1:22:15
  Crushing for me personally to lose both my parents relatively
• 1:22:20
  young ages. Yeah, we knew my dad was on the
• 1:22:22
  way out, but it was it was it was really still sudden shock
• 1:22:26
  shock because it wasn't expected to be like that.
• 1:22:28
  My mom was way like that was so fun, foreseeable how that came
• 1:22:33
  about. So To have so many personal
• 1:22:36
  challenges in such close order, think as well in there, my wife
• 1:22:40
  had another bout of cancer in surgery.
• 1:22:43
  So it depend on where you define the time waits, but it was it
• 1:22:47
  was just one thing after the other to the point that it
• 1:22:49
  seemed almost ridiculous. If you if you put them all on
• 1:22:53
  paper as a list you like. Hold on.
• 1:22:55
  Now, what's happening to me? Thankfully I think I've
• 1:22:58
  forgotten a good third of the items that were on that list,
• 1:23:01
  but those are the major highlights.
• 1:23:03
  What got you through? Mmm overall?
• 1:23:07
  I'd say to be honest. It's simply the real, the love
• 1:23:10
  and support of friends and family that are talked about a
• 1:23:13
  lot of things. And a lot of people know my
• 1:23:14
  story publicly. But what they don't know is that
• 1:23:17
  I have a wife of 20 years. Now, who's been that going to
• 1:23:22
  me? And she's just an incredible
• 1:23:24
  woman who is very quiet but very powerful in her supporting her
• 1:23:30
  love and so she doesn't like the spotlight and But she, she's
• 1:23:35
  incredible and I also have a group of friends that I've had,
• 1:23:40
  my friend Trevor goes back to, you know, when I was born.
• 1:23:42
  He's been there as a best friend from growing up as a kid in
• 1:23:45
  Victoria through the present day and a group of about a dozen
• 1:23:50
  friends and 15 years. It's been every New Year's
• 1:23:52
  together at every summer we can together.
• 1:23:54
  And that networks of friends really had was the difference in
• 1:23:58
  both couple. Made.
• 1:23:59
  It survives to transplant in the recovery from transplants and
• 1:24:02
  they were all there once again, During that that really
• 1:24:04
  difficult struggle between 2015 and 2017.
• 1:24:08
  Hmm, incredible. Well, I'm sorry for your losses
• 1:24:11
  and humbled by your strength. And of course, thank you.
• 1:24:17
  I can see the strength has been mostly borrowed from from the
• 1:24:19
  friends and family by, although both.
• 1:24:21
  My parents are gone. I still am very blessed to have
• 1:24:24
  a brother in Halifax, even doing with known challenges of weight
• 1:24:27
  with health, but overall, he's always been the one looking out
• 1:24:30
  for me and all this history here in Victoria.
• 1:24:32
  Who's very lucky. The healthiest wrong.
• 1:24:35
  And yeah, so those two is always civilians being youngest is
• 1:24:38
  always been a bit nice and family because you get to the
• 1:24:42
  only kids looking out for me. Even if it's sometimes sometimes
• 1:24:44
  stuff. But both of those obviously was
• 1:24:47
  mine have had family. So I've also got nieces and
• 1:24:50
  nephews that are just fantastic, it Formed part of that.
• 1:24:54
  Yeah that Family Circle which which comes around and has been
• 1:24:57
  such an incredible part of my own house as part Network to
• 1:25:01
  have the friends and family that I do.
• 1:25:04
  You mentioned earlier that you were almost anti-business until
• 1:25:08
  you actually decided you. You were an entrepreneur in the
• 1:25:11
  making. Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  I'm curious what sort of social action and impact Rumble has
• 1:25:17
  great. Yeah, I'd love to talk about
• 1:25:19
  that. I should talk to you about my
• 1:25:20
  motivation was primarily cuz I don't want to come across as
• 1:25:22
  soon as just general and repented capitalist.
• 1:25:25
  Not that there's anything particularly wrong with that
• 1:25:27
  stance, but there's a movie that was in Kosh.
• 1:25:30
  What your was. It's an old movie now called the
• 1:25:32
  corporation. Did you see that one talk?
• 1:25:35
  I don't know that I have. It's gonna say no.
• 1:25:37
  Yeah, it's what check it would take three are thing.
• 1:25:38
  It's not, I mean nothing some people have more time.
• 1:25:41
  And I know you and I are part two of those people, but some
• 1:25:43
  people have more time right now and if they haven't, they
• 1:25:45
  haven't seen it. It's definitely worth checking
• 1:25:48
  out, but it's a great movie was made by the same guys that did
• 1:25:51
  Justin say guys. It's supposed same people.
• 1:25:53
  I don't know. They're there, guys are girls
• 1:25:55
  are both, but the people that made know the movie about Noam
• 1:25:59
  Chomsky manufacturing consent. They went on the second project
• 1:26:02
  to do this movie called The Operation.
• 1:26:04
  And it's a great, it's a Timeless, in the sense that it
• 1:26:07
  sort of demonstrates, it puts up.
• 1:26:09
  We know the qualities of a corporation and allowed to
• 1:26:11
  succeed as sets it against an individual's checklist for
• 1:26:15
  whether they would be considered a sociopath and basically,
• 1:26:18
  check, check, check, check check it runs through in a very
• 1:26:21
  methodical but entertaining way how corporations came to be how
• 1:26:24
  we set them up as a society and how we allow them to be what
• 1:26:27
  they are? And it does a great job of
• 1:26:30
  showing that, you know, corporations are evil.
• 1:26:33
  That these are things we've created for particular purpose.
• 1:26:35
  And that perhaps there's a need for us to revisit the power that
• 1:26:39
  was given to corporations. Because we, you know, in terms
• 1:26:41
  of the form of government have given corporations, their power
• 1:26:44
  and it outlines what happens when we don't like what happens?
• 1:26:47
  If you let operations to have unrestricted?
• 1:26:50
  What if you don't have anything collations, it's unfettered.
• 1:26:54
  What tends to happen and why? And it's an examination that I
• 1:26:57
  found, fascinating and impactful.
• 1:26:59
  And at the time, it made me be honest a little bit antsy,
• 1:27:02
  businesslike. Why would I want to go and do
• 1:27:04
  that? And it's only through inspiring
• 1:27:06
  stories? Like if to Patagonia or Toms
• 1:27:09
  shoes are other companies that have gone out anything even Clif
• 1:27:11
  Bar, like every carrier some stuff bar.
• 1:27:13
  I thought was a great example of.
• 1:27:15
  Here's a guy who could have sold for 60 million dollars for his
• 1:27:18
  half when craft would buy him out and he walked away from that
• 1:27:23
  deal, knowing that something is more important than his own
• 1:27:26
  Financial well-being. And that is, what can a company
• 1:27:30
  do to accomplish good in the world and That was, it was when
• 1:27:35
  I started learning about companies like Nature's Path and
• 1:27:38
  a Time, Cliff bar as well. I'm a little bit.
• 1:27:40
  I'm not such a big fan of Cliff bar anymore.
• 1:27:42
  But I did like, what your ex had to say in his book, which was
• 1:27:45
  called raising the bar. And I've been particularly
• 1:27:48
  impressed with companies like local, something like Nature's
• 1:27:50
  Path and what they've done and what they continue to do.
• 1:27:53
  So, as it relates back to rumble from the very beginning, I would
• 1:27:57
  say the primary purpose from my point of view was if we're going
• 1:28:00
  to do this, of course, the number one thing is to see if
• 1:28:03
  Get a healthy drink makes a difference in people's lives.
• 1:28:06
  That's number one, but, secondly, and so closely related
• 1:28:10
  to that was, can we do so in a way, that has a positive impact?
• 1:28:14
  And my original idea was I want rumbles be an internationally
• 1:28:19
  known household word and brand and I want us to be an example
• 1:28:25
  of companies can do good and make that profitable like in the
• 1:28:29
  woods. It's not mutually exclusive to
• 1:28:31
  be profitable and also, Of net benefit to society.
• 1:28:35
  So where that came across was originally right off the bat.
• 1:28:38
  Before we had a penny of profits.
• 1:28:40
  We committed to a non-profit, which I started called 1% for
• 1:28:45
  hunger. And the idea being that we would
• 1:28:46
  give 1% of sales. So no discussion of prophets.
• 1:28:49
  This isn't some like ten percent of profits to the rainforests of
• 1:28:52
  it was like 1% of sales to Charities that address the
• 1:28:57
  problem of hunger and to this day that that is very personal
• 1:29:02
  and we could have gone with CF we could have gone with
• 1:29:04
  transplant, but I just thought it was more of a bigger deal.
• 1:29:07
  So many people don't have enough to eat and it's a solvable
• 1:29:10
  problem. This isn't some in solvable
• 1:29:12
  problem. It's actually very solvable and
• 1:29:14
  so I helped create the the charity and we align to that
• 1:29:19
  first and foremost. And since then we've changed 1%
• 1:29:22
  for the planet for some different reasons, but we've
• 1:29:24
  still maintain their current always have one percent of sales
• 1:29:27
  at a minimum go toward charitable causes and we are
• 1:29:31
  trying to do everything we can to Support local amateur
• 1:29:35
  athletes with, with Rumble. We try to come in at times of
• 1:29:38
  need. As we have recently, With Many
• 1:29:40
  Nations to food banks. We give away over 10,000 cases
• 1:29:45
  The Mustard Seed. So we're inspired by examples as
• 1:29:48
  a like Nature's Path, who've done very similar things.
• 1:29:50
  We set our own path and trying to be an example to other
• 1:29:54
  companies of even when you're not even profitable, even before
• 1:29:59
  you hit that profitability. You can still do a lot of good
• 1:30:02
  in the community. And that's that's built into our
• 1:30:04
  DNA. What we try to do every day,
• 1:30:07
  highly commendable. Thank you.
• 1:30:09
  Yeah, it's not always, it's not always easy to defend,
• 1:30:12
  particularly back when we were in her original.
• 1:30:14
  Original container with very low margins.
• 1:30:17
  It, we certain were pressured by our investment bankers to
• 1:30:20
  scrutinize what we were doing and that that I'm proud to say
• 1:30:23
  that even even those investors recognized that if you take away
• 1:30:26
  our y 15 way our passion for doing what we want to do, you're
• 1:30:30
  not going to have a bunch of happy people.
• 1:30:31
  And I would say any company that That their primary purpose.
• 1:30:34
  If they think their primary purpose is to make money.
• 1:30:37
  They're very unlikely to succeed.
• 1:30:39
  You really have to be, it has to be a secondary to your primary
• 1:30:43
  primary goal, whether that's, you know, helping people out,
• 1:30:45
  give them a healthy option or whether it's doing good,
• 1:30:48
  corporate social responsibility, you know, every business by
• 1:30:51
  definition has to make money, but that does not have to be
• 1:30:53
  your primary reason for existing.
• 1:30:56
  You don't have to answer this, but I'm curious if you are
• 1:30:58
  allowed to speak at all to finances and and just I'm just
• 1:31:03
  curious about the revenue of the company today.
• 1:31:05
  Yeah, I can't I can speak in general terms, not specifically
• 1:31:09
  but I can say, you know, our revenue is is great.
• 1:31:13
  That you know, I won't I'm strip.
• 1:31:15
  I'll edit myself, as kind of specific sales, but in are all
• 1:31:19
  in our first iteration, I remember one point O.
• 1:31:22
  We got up to how over 2 million in sales per year and then we've
• 1:31:27
  had to, you know, we had to break down reformulate we
• 1:31:30
  launched and, you know, we would like to be To be exceeding that
• 1:31:34
  sin in the years to come and with the goal of eventually,
• 1:31:38
  becoming a brand that is doing 10 million in sales.
• 1:31:41
  So, you know where we've got a lot of work cut out to us.
• 1:31:44
  We've got some, as I say products in the pipeline, that
• 1:31:46
  we want to get up to Market and help expand the product
• 1:31:49
  offerings, but I think it's reasonable that given how
• 1:31:53
  quickly were first iteration to get to 1 million in a tutu with
• 1:31:57
  our reformulation. And with continued work with a
• 1:31:59
  very small team, but there's every reason to believe that if
• 1:32:02
  we keep Keep our nose to the grindstone.
• 1:32:05
  If you will that will see those numbers before too long.
• 1:32:10
  You've already mentioned a few new formulas and vegan
• 1:32:13
  formulations in the making. As we wind up here.
• 1:32:17
  I'm curious. What is also in the works next
• 1:32:21
  or Rumble? And also what's next for you?
• 1:32:24
  Yeah, for rumbling me. We're really focused on SSA.
• 1:32:27
  Like we tried the idea of being a super Shake means that we have
• 1:32:31
  to be both super tasty. Super healthy and it sounds like
• 1:32:34
  a cliche but we really going back to that Wing.
• 1:32:36
  The best tasting product in the market test taste is subjective
• 1:32:39
  course. If you can't please everybody
• 1:32:41
  but compared to any competitor. We always want to be the better
• 1:32:44
  tasting option and we always want to be the healthier option.
• 1:32:47
  So as we look to expand plant-based, the two flavors, if
• 1:32:52
  you will that we're coming up on that one.
• 1:32:53
  We simply keep like I'm just doing this yesterday, tasting
• 1:32:56
  them, send them back with notes and really concentrating on
• 1:33:00
  involved in the product. So it's one that I crave what we
• 1:33:02
  want. The product B, crave-worthy and
• 1:33:04
  good for you, and Swansea, rather than the focus on the
• 1:33:08
  number of new products. It's on the quality of what we
• 1:33:11
  do come out with that. We want to stand behind
• 1:33:13
  obviously, if we're able to do that in the next year and do it.
• 1:33:16
  Well, it would be great down the line.
• 1:33:19
  And this this would be couple years.
• 1:33:20
  I'm going to count with perhaps powdered versions of Rumble, but
• 1:33:24
  that's a ways off yet. We're really concentrating on
• 1:33:27
  doing a limited number of things very well with a small team.
• 1:33:31
  And yeah, that's that's about it.
• 1:33:33
  Next steps for me, personally. I really have focused more on
• 1:33:38
  session the last year, with my lungs being where they are on my
• 1:33:42
  personal health and well-being. As we talked about earlier with
• 1:33:44
  meditation to Qigong. My morning routine is very
• 1:33:47
  important to me. And so I'm actually looking to
• 1:33:49
  wind down and take myself out of the active practice of the
• 1:33:53
  nonprofit which is started. Once it for Hunger.
• 1:33:56
  We're looking for people to sort of take over the Baton if you
• 1:33:59
  want room with that. And well, I personally focus on
• 1:34:02
  actually Lee doing a writing project.
• 1:34:04
  I'm really hoping to if I'm capable of doing this writing
• 1:34:08
  out a little bit of my story in the hopes of inspiring other
• 1:34:11
  people. If nothing lasts at least to
• 1:34:13
  register as an organ donor, to make them aware of my story.
• 1:34:16
  And hopefully, to pass on anything, that's that, I've
• 1:34:18
  learned, that might be a value to them.
• 1:34:20
  Well, you have such an incredible story as you've
• 1:34:23
  shared so much of it with us today.
• 1:34:25
  Again. I'm humbled, by you your
• 1:34:28
  enthusiasm, your ambition, your compassion.
• 1:34:32
  Well, thankful. Thank you so much of the work.
• 1:34:34
  I'm really honored to be profiled and to have the
• 1:34:37
  opportunity to share my story. Todd.
• 1:34:39
  And if anyone that is is inspired or hasn't been already.
• 1:34:42
  I would encourage you, please check your status, find out if
• 1:34:45
  you're already registered as organ donor.
• 1:34:46
  If you're not, please do register as an organ donor
• 1:34:49
  transplant dot. BC is the local 14.
• 1:34:54
  British Columbians and think be a donor dot C.
• 1:34:55
  A is the one Ontario, but do we need to do?
• 1:34:59
  Check to see if an organ donor and please consider registering
• 1:35:01
  for that? And where can I Anyone else or
• 1:35:03
  working others, learn anything else about you and the work,
• 1:35:06
  you're doing Paul a great resource.
• 1:35:07
  It would simply be the Run website because there is a
• 1:35:11
  little backstory section on that talked a little bit about my
• 1:35:14
  challenges and if anyone want to get ahold of me, they always do.
• 1:35:17
  So through the info, a drink Rumble, you know.
• 1:35:21
  That's great. And I'll put those links in the
• 1:35:22
  show notes for everyone. Awesome.
• 1:35:24
  Excellent. And yeah, I really appreciate
• 1:35:26
  that. Thanks a lot.
• 1:35:28
  This has been so much fun again. I love your story and I'm so
• 1:35:32
  grateful that you were able to share it with us today.
• 1:35:35
  I don't think that night. It's my delight anytime.
• 1:35:37
  So yeah, I appreciate the chance and yeah humbled that humbled at
• 1:35:42
  the opportunity. So, thank you so much.
• 1:35:51
  Thanks for listening to Salish, wolf brought to you by Anchor
• 1:35:54
  Point Expeditions. Please check out Anchor Point.
• 1:35:58
  Expeditions.com. For more information on my
• 1:36:01
  immense leadership, Retreats and personal development, coaching
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  Norm, Hannah and I are planning to host a sir.
• 1:36:08
  Pretreat and stunning Tofino, British Columbia on October,
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  fourth through seventh 2020. Registration is not yet open,
• 1:36:16
  due to the global pandemic, but feel free to connect with me, so
• 1:36:19
  we can discuss. How this opportunity could
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  impact. You, if Paul's experience with
• 1:36:25
  Qi Gong and meditation has piqued your curiosity.
• 1:36:28
  Please check out the online chi. Gong courses offered at Pacific
• 1:36:31
  Rim, College Dot online, and listen to episode 11 of Pacific
• 1:36:36
  Rim College, radio with meditation teacher, Steve James.
• 1:36:41
  This show was produced by me, Todd Howard, on Vancouver
• 1:36:44
  Island, music was written and performed by Jason cow.
• 1:36:47
  So the darcys special thanks to Pacific Rim College.
• 1:36:50
  For their ongoing contribution to the show, four episodes on
• 1:36:54
  holistic, health and wellness. Please tune into my other
• 1:36:57
  podcast Pacific Rim College radio at Pacific Rim
• 1:37:00
  college.com. If you enjoyed this podcast,
• 1:37:04
  please give it a five star rating on, whatever podcast app
• 1:37:08
  you are using and share it with your friends and family.
• 1:37:11
  Stay tuned for my upcoming doc, cast takea Chronicles featuring.
• 1:37:15
  The inspirational story of a lone wolf that mesmerized, the
• 1:37:19
  city of Victoria. Taking up residence on a tiny
• 1:37:22
  island off. The city's Coastline there,
• 1:37:25
  takea thrived, showing us even the most unlikely as possible.
• 1:37:31
  You have been listening to Salish wolf.
• 1:37:34
  I am Todd Howard signing off.