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Fauci in Contempt, Kennedy Off the Rails · Paging America

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Majority of states,
0:00
SPEAKER_02: they filed extensions with the federal government to say,
0:03
SPEAKER_02: hey, we would like a little more time so we can do it right.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: Trying to limit the damage and get it right.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: And then in Nebraska, you say, well, no, hell no.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: I know we have until next year,
0:11
SPEAKER_02: but we want to do it sooner because we want to screw those people over
0:14
SPEAKER_02: in August instead of waiting
0:16
SPEAKER_01: until January, February, what have you.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: This is like performative cruelty from the state of Nebraska.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: And it started in Nebraska, but it's going to be coming to a state near you.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: It's coming your way soon.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Rob, what just happened in the Senate?
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, looks like the political theater continues.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Looks like the Senate,
0:36
SPEAKER_02: what is it,
0:36
SPEAKER_02: the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee,
0:38
SPEAKER_02: they voted on party-line basis to hold Dr. Fauci in contempt.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: And Rand Paul,
0:43
SPEAKER_02: with his personal vendetta,
0:45
SPEAKER_02: now is that he's going to refer to the DOJ,
0:48
SPEAKER_02: which may be headed by the president's Private defense lawyer.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, what the hell?
0:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Any thoughts on your end of what the hell they're doing in the Republican Senate?
1:00
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, obviously they are targeting Fauci with a crazy witch hunt.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: And this seems just like,
1:06
SPEAKER_01: this has got echoes of McCarthy and echoes of like the...
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Whether that's the Red Scare or the Lavender Purge.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: There's an ugly history in America of turning the Senate into
1:19
SPEAKER_01: a political enforcement body at our worst moments.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: And this seems like a blast from the past, honestly.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's crazy because ostensibly Rand Paul dragged him, right?
1:34
SPEAKER_02: The problem is Rand Paul has no credibility, right?
1:36
SPEAKER_02: He said,
1:37
SPEAKER_02: like he has said,
1:38
SPEAKER_02: to paraphrase, like his goal is to put Fauci behind bars, essentially.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: He has told people that.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: He has said that out loud.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: And if it was just about,
1:47
SPEAKER_02: let's figure out the origins of COVID,
1:48
SPEAKER_02: I was just on the Acosta show talking about this.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Olivia Troy was on there and she was on the COVID task force.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: She's like,
1:54
SPEAKER_02: she said,
1:54
SPEAKER_02: listen, I testified behind closed doors to these guys about this very thing.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: We have discussed all of this.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: Like this is not trying to uncover actual information.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: It was, you know,
2:04
SPEAKER_02: intended to try to entrap an 85 year old retired public servant and then get them
2:10
SPEAKER_02: for perjury because these guys are pissed at them.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: Because in the same hearing,
2:13
SPEAKER_02: like, this wasn't just about let's figure out what happened with COVID.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: It was Ron Johnson spewing bullshit about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: It was Bernie Moreno dropping the F-bomb because he thought it made him look cool.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, all of it was there on display for the big hearing, and now they're just following it up.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to talk about the weaponization of government, I mean,
2:31
SPEAKER_02: all we hear about is this whining president about how everyone was out to get him.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: And it turns out, right, like the joke's on us.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're actually using the government.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: They're actually out to get someone.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: Dr. Anthony Fauci.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: Man alive.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: All right, everyone.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome back to Paging America.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: This is a show where we explore the power and profit shaping American healthcare
2:53
SPEAKER_01: and we explore news and viewpoints.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Myles Baker, along with Dr.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Rob Davidson.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And we have a big show for you today.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: No guest, because we did our guest yesterday.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: If you want a deeper analysis of the Michigan primary results and what that means
3:10
SPEAKER_01: for healthcare politics and healthcare policy in the United States,
3:13
SPEAKER_01: go back and check out our on-call edition.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: With guest Jeff Timmer from yesterday.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: But today we are just gonna dive right into the news.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: On the docket, Fauci held in contempt.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Just talking about that.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: The intersection of politics and healthcare in Wisconsin at the upcoming primary.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: CDC finally has a new director.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And as always, every week, Robert F. Kennedy did something really weird.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: So we'll jump right into it.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Now that we have a little bit of distance from the Michigan primary,
3:43
SPEAKER_01: just a couple of days,
3:44
SPEAKER_01: do you have any other,
3:46
SPEAKER_01: we have this big consequential primary coming up in Wisconsin.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Do you have any reflections coming out of Michigan and kind of going into Wisconsin?
3:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean,
3:54
SPEAKER_02: you know,
3:56
SPEAKER_02: like when it comes to what we do, right, healthcare, It clearly was on the ballot.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, among other issues,
4:03
SPEAKER_02: it is a huge issue in the lives of,
4:05
SPEAKER_02: I know people in Michigan where I live and practice,
4:09
SPEAKER_02: and I think really across this country.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's like an issue with two sides to it.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: One is the pure healthcare aspect of it and caring for our neighbors and our family,
4:20
SPEAKER_02: worrying about their well-being.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: But it's also a pocketbook issue, right?
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Anytime you talk about affordability,
4:26
SPEAKER_02: you of course are talking about food prices and gas prices and housing.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: But healthcare is such an ever-growing,
4:33
SPEAKER_01: disproportionately growing part of people's budgets.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we saw that this year,
4:36
SPEAKER_02: 3 million people dropped insurance because they let the ACA subsidies expire.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: And when the bills came due,
4:42
SPEAKER_02: I think as of like in February, people said, holy shit, I can't afford that.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: It like underlies all of those conversations because it's unfortunately,
4:50
SPEAKER_02: the reality is it's one of those expenses you can just put off, right?
4:54
SPEAKER_02: You got to feed your family.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: You got to put gas in your car, right?
4:56
SPEAKER_02: You have to pay your mortgage or pay your rent or you're out on the street.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: You can go without insurance and,
5:02
SPEAKER_02: like, knock on wood, maybe you're okay until you're not, right?
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Until you're not.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: And then we saw more data coming out saying, hey,
5:09
SPEAKER_02: increases in uninsured patients showing up at hospitals some places like 20%,
5:14
SPEAKER_02: putting the system at risk.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: And this is what Republicans did last year, right?
5:19
SPEAKER_02: This is what Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress,
5:22
SPEAKER_02: and the votes I think people are taking are in large part a reflection of that.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: We need to do something about this massive problem.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think you've been talking a lot about it,
5:31
SPEAKER_02: how this is potentially going to play out five days from now in Wisconsin.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: So, for Michigan,
5:39
SPEAKER_01: we've talked a lot about Abdul,
5:40
SPEAKER_01: but we also just Yes,
5:41
SPEAKER_01: and Benson,
5:42
SPEAKER_01: she didn't have a particularly competitive primary,
5:44
SPEAKER_01: but she's running on explicitly on a healthcare affordability message,
5:48
SPEAKER_01: laying out a few policies that she wants to achieve,
5:51
SPEAKER_01: including a prescription drug affordability board,
5:55
SPEAKER_01: which has the ability to intervene in the private market
6:00
SPEAKER_01: and lower prescription drug costs.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: In Wisconsin, there's a lot on the ballot.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: So since the,
6:06
SPEAKER_01: I call it the Walker era in 2010,
6:08
SPEAKER_01: When the Republicans sort of wiped out everybody in Wisconsin and took over
6:12
SPEAKER_01: the state assembly,
6:14
SPEAKER_01: the state Senate and the governor's the governor's mansion,
6:18
SPEAKER_01: there has been no movement on health care policies of significance,
6:24
SPEAKER_01: particularly with prescription drug costs and the inability to get sort
6:29
SPEAKER_01: of anything done on reproductive rights.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: They did through the courts, but they weren't able to get it done sort of legislatively.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: So there's more to do there.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It is the only Northern state that has not expanded Medicaid from way back from the ACA.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: So you have a larger uninsured population in Wisconsin than you do in other places
6:48
SPEAKER_01: because they have been unwilling to do that.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: So there is a contentious gubernatorial primary But even more,
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I think possibly more importantly than the gubernatorial primary,
6:59
SPEAKER_01: there is all these races for state assembly and state senate.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: And if the environment stays the way it is,
7:05
SPEAKER_01: you could be looking at,
7:06
SPEAKER_01: as long as you got the trifecta, the trifecta is available in Wisconsin.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: You could see badger care expansion.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: You could see a prescription drug affordability board.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: You could see Reproductive rights advocates go and rip up the floorboards on all
7:20
SPEAKER_01: the things that the moral majority folks have put in statute over the years
7:25
SPEAKER_01: and see just a really different Wisconsin within two years if things go our way.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: In July,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: from Marquette Law School found that 46% of Wisconsin voters say they would vote
7:37
SPEAKER_01: for Democrats in legislative races, while 42% said they'd vote for Republicans.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: That would be enough.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: That would be enough to take both chambers and have a dramatic change in government
7:46
SPEAKER_01: in Wisconsin.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: So I am cautiously optimistic about what is possible in Wisconsin.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Wisconsin has made me sad before, Rob.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Wisconsin has let me down before.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: But this time, I feel like it really could be different.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that Medicaid expansion is, to me, the single most critical piece.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: I actually work in Wisconsin now periodically in the ER,
8:10
SPEAKER_02: and I saw someone a couple weeks ago Who doesn't qualify,
8:13
SPEAKER_02: but just doing some napkin math under an expansion universe of Medicaid,
8:19
SPEAKER_02: you know, likely would.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: So for individuals, life-changing, right?
8:23
SPEAKER_02: For rural hospital systems, for rural communities, life-changing.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: It's a crime that hasn't happened yet,
8:31
SPEAKER_02: that it's still one of, what,
8:32
SPEAKER_02: I think 10 states that haven't expanded Medicaid,
8:34
SPEAKER_02: but like you said,
8:34
SPEAKER_02: the only one in the North, the only kind of blue-slash-purple state.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: It hasn't done it.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: And it's about damn time.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think the people there want it.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
8:42
SPEAKER_02: hopefully,
8:43
SPEAKER_02: I think your caution optimism is hopeful to me because you've been doing this for
8:47
SPEAKER_02: so long.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: If you even use the word optimism at all, it feels like it makes me feel better.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: For those who have not been longtime listeners, I am an internal pessimist on this stuff.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: And you kind of cut your teeth under the Scott, or part of it was Scott Walker.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: You know,
9:06
SPEAKER_02: a lot of your political life was related to Scott Walker,
9:09
SPEAKER_02: the former governor of Wisconsin who just royally screwed up the state.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's hard to recover from.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: I think you're on your way.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, fingers crossed, this primary is sort of the beginning of the end of the Scott Walker era.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: The Scott Walker era has been ending for a while now,
9:24
SPEAKER_01: but this upcoming November election is a chance to see it through
9:27
SPEAKER_01: to its permanent demise.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we have
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Big development, the CDC has a new permanent director.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: So when Erica Schwartz appeared before the Senate Help Committee last week,
9:42
SPEAKER_01: she began her remarks by saying,
9:44
SPEAKER_01: the most important thing to know about me is I come from
9:46
SPEAKER_01: a God-fearing military family.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: One of the most important qualifications for being the director of the CDC, as we know.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: She went on to say, if confirmed, I will never betray the science.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of a funny way to say that.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: However, as the hearing progressed, she refused to commit to standing up to Robert Kennedy Jr.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Senator Bernie Sanders asked her if she would alert Congress
10:08
SPEAKER_01: if she's given directives from Kennedy or others to implement policies
10:11
SPEAKER_01: that are unscientific.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Or can harm the health of Americans.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: She answered she believed that she would never be given instructions like that.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: She also avoided answering Maggie Hassan when she asked if she would carry out
10:24
SPEAKER_01: an order to stop promoting the flu vaccine during a deadly flu season.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Bill Cassidy asked a similar line of questions and seemed very dissatisfied with her answers.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Despite that, he later voted to advance her nomination
10:35
SPEAKER_02: after speaking with her.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Yesterday,
10:37
SPEAKER_01: the full Senate confirmed her nomination,
10:39
SPEAKER_01: making her the first permanent director in over a year.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Kennedy was like, I'm just satisfied with your answers.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Chit-chunk, be the CDC director.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: We'll get to the new CDC director,
10:55
SPEAKER_02: but can you help me understand the motivations of Dr.,
11:00
SPEAKER_02: soon-to-be former Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Like, his motivations with RFK Jr. were clear.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: He was fighting for his political life, hoping that he could hang on to his thing.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: He is out of a job, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_02: He is persona non grata in mega world and maybe in the wider Republican circles.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure he's finding a whole lot of friends in other places, right, as a former doctor.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: What the hell?
11:23
SPEAKER_02: What is he doing?
11:24
SPEAKER_02: Does any of it make sense to you?
11:25
SPEAKER_01: The only rationale is he thinks that there's some, like,
11:29
SPEAKER_01: world in Republican lobbying after,
11:32
SPEAKER_01: or I think possibly just as likely he is interested in not having an upsetting lunch
11:39
SPEAKER_01: when he's, like, golfing with his buddies back home.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have, like, no idea.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he's, like, it's not motivated by the hope to, like, rebuild the CDC or build it
11:53
SPEAKER_01: He continues to just be sort of the most spineless guy in science.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: He's the most spineless man in medicine.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Why even show your displeasure?
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Why express your concern?
12:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is like Susan Collins' level of concern without consequences.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Why even
12:14
SPEAKER_01: come to work?
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Why even come to work?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: If you're just gonna do this, like, why even show up?
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Just stay in Louisiana.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Just get out of our hair.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and as to the new CDC director, right?
12:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think a lot of people,
12:26
SPEAKER_02: and I'm in that camp,
12:28
SPEAKER_02: came into all this thinking, okay, like, this is someone clearly qualified, right?
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Clearly has the background,
12:34
SPEAKER_02: has the training,
12:35
SPEAKER_02: that should be able to You know,
12:40
SPEAKER_02: and then she just did what seemingly every damn Trump appointee seems to do.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: And it's just like,
12:46
SPEAKER_02: is it that they just have this feeling,
12:49
SPEAKER_02: or maybe they were given explicit instructions, do not piss off their leader, right?
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Do not upset their leader.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Including Kennedy, right?
12:57
SPEAKER_02: But Trump.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: You think they get coached?
12:59
SPEAKER_01: They get coached through it.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: But they don't have the temerity to wiggle out of their coaching
13:07
SPEAKER_01: and say something that's truthful and honest in front of the cameras.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I think there were a lot of Democrats who could have voted for her.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: Had she just said,
13:16
SPEAKER_02: well, of course I will not accept, you know, directives that are against science.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I've never done that.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, like, yeah.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Brett Kavanaugh did it and he lied.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, enough of them have done
13:28
SPEAKER_01: it and lied.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't get it.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, she's there better, certainly better than others.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: It's really sad.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, probably she's a better CDC director than Todd Blanch will be an attorney general.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So on the curve of Trump appointees, like, she's looking okay.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: What would it look like to be worse than Todd Blanch's AG?
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, under that curve, I would have been a four-point student in college.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: You'd make like a bioweapon at
13:53
SPEAKER_01: the CDC?
13:55
SPEAKER_01: How would you do that?
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: Dr.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: Evil level of malfeasance.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're going to be covering the developments at the CDC under
14:04
SPEAKER_01: the new permanent director,
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Erica Schwartz, and we'll be back here with details on that.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: I just say, like,
14:11
SPEAKER_01: I thought that we've had The CDC's AFGE union leader on this show last year,
14:18
SPEAKER_01: and she had a really powerful statement saying that it's time
14:22
SPEAKER_01: to do things differently,
14:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm paraphrasing.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: But we're hopeful that even a modicum of improvement would be,
14:28
SPEAKER_01: any improvement would be good if we're
14:29
SPEAKER_02: directionally headed in the right direction.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: So we're not rooting against Erica Schwartz.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: We are going to be watching what's going on at the CDC.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: People are already losing healthcare thanks to new federal Medicaid work requirements, Rob.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: It's happening just a lot faster than I think even those of us who are pessimistic
14:49
SPEAKER_01: about it thought it might.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: So Americans began to lose their Medicaid benefits this week thanks
14:53
SPEAKER_01: to last year's Republican The new rule means
14:55
SPEAKER_01: that 30,000 Nebraskans will lose their coverage by 2028, with millions more losing
15:15
SPEAKER_01: There's in other states.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: The law is expected to result in the largest rollback in Medicaid coverage
15:19
SPEAKER_01: and federal support in the history of the program.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: And doctors are worried about having to document which Medicaid enrollees are too sick to work.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it seems like an onerous,
15:28
SPEAKER_01: for those of physicians who are listening,
15:31
SPEAKER_01: onerous requirements are coming vis-a-vis the federal government to your practice,
15:37
SPEAKER_01: to a practice near you.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Nebraska started their program seven months before they were required to because,
15:42
SPEAKER_01: hey, let's get them off there.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Let's get them off the Medicaid rolls as fast as we can.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I think this is like performative cruelty from the state of Nebraska.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: It's starting in Nebraska, but it's going to be coming to a state near you.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: It's coming your way soon.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: What do you think, Rob?
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so a couple of things.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: What is it like to ostensibly sign up to serve your fellow Nebraskans
16:05
SPEAKER_02: or whatever state you're in to say,
16:06
SPEAKER_02: I would like to work in government to try to make the lives of my fellow,
16:10
SPEAKER_02: you know, residents here in the state better?
16:13
SPEAKER_02: And then while most states,
16:15
SPEAKER_02: majority of states,
16:16
SPEAKER_02: they filed extensions with the federal government to say,
16:18
SPEAKER_02: hey, this is a big deal you're making us do here.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: It's a lot.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: So we would like a little more time so we can do it right, right?
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Trying to limit the damage and get it right.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: And again,
16:28
SPEAKER_02: for doctors,
16:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm telling you, man,
16:30
SPEAKER_02: you talk to any primary care doctor,
16:31
SPEAKER_02: they have so many clicks,
16:32
SPEAKER_02: they have to get through a chart,
16:34
SPEAKER_02: and so much time spent, like just another hurdle is crazy.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: But so you ostensibly do that.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: And then in Nebraska, you say, well, no, hell no.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: We're going to rush to the front of the line.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: I know we have until next year,
16:45
SPEAKER_02: but we want to do it sooner because we want to screw those people over
16:48
SPEAKER_02: in August instead of waiting until January, February, what have you.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: It defies anything I can imagine.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Again, someone who says, I would like to go out and work for my state and be helpful to people.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: And you'd think it's like an ideological project on the part of the politicians
17:08
SPEAKER_01: that are elected in Nebraska.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: But if you were to ask people in Nebraska, it's not like the people of Nebraska.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen polling out of Nebraska, but I've seen it in plenty of Great Plains states.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: If you asked Ask them, are you for Medicaid?
17:20
SPEAKER_01: The majority of people will be for it.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And then, are you for work requirements?
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Sure, they might say yes, but people don't really understand work requirements.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: But as a values proposition,
17:31
SPEAKER_01: do you want fellow Americans to have access,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: particularly people who are poor,
17:35
SPEAKER_01: people who are indigent,
17:36
SPEAKER_01: or people who have trouble working, do you want them to have access to healthcare?
17:39
SPEAKER_01: The majority of people in Nebraska are going to say yes.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: And a majority of Nebraska politicians are ripping away healthcare as fast as they bloody can.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: You just have like a real disconnect between what elected officials are doing there
17:50
SPEAKER_01: and what people would like to see happen.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: And these aren't really work requirements.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: These are work reporting requirements, right?
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Because the vast majority,
17:57
SPEAKER_02: over 93%,
17:59
SPEAKER_02: over 90% of people on Medicaid work or have reasons that they can't be working
18:03
SPEAKER_02: that are justified.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: The vast majority of people who will lose coverage,
18:07
SPEAKER_02: or the majority at least,
18:08
SPEAKER_02: are people who simply just don't Don't kind of get on the website at the right time
18:13
SPEAKER_02: or fill out the right form or what have you.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: And we'll lose it.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: We'll just kind of be a result of administrative burden, right?
18:18
SPEAKER_02: So this is the Republicans throwing up a bunch of red tape
18:21
SPEAKER_02: to lower income individuals so they can't have health care.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: And they're happy about it.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: They're running on it, right?
18:26
SPEAKER_02: They're running on the big, beautiful bill.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: They think it's effing great.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: All right, well,
18:30
SPEAKER_01: we'll keep an eye on that and we'll be looking at,
18:33
SPEAKER_01: as the developments happen in other states,
18:35
SPEAKER_01: this is gonna be kind of a dominoes across the country as these come into effect
18:39
SPEAKER_01: and we'll be taking a look at it.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: So, okay,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: in some better news and some hopeful news,
18:45
SPEAKER_01: independents seem like they're turning on Robert Kennedy Jr.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: The weirdness has finally seeped in.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: People are getting the memo that this guy is bursting with madness.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: RealClearHealth reports on new polling that spells trouble for Republicans this fall.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: According to the survey,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: a majority of independents disapprove of his job performance,
19:02
SPEAKER_01: oppose his recent moves on vaccines,
19:04
SPEAKER_01: and think his proposal to overhaul the vaccine injury compensation program designed
19:08
SPEAKER_01: to rein in out-of-control vaccine litigation is a bad idea.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure that's going to be a vote-moving issue for folks,
19:15
SPEAKER_01: but yeah, when you start to explain what he's up to, people are like, That's odd.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: TPA's survey found the independents disapprove
19:21
SPEAKER_01: of Secretary Kennedy's job performance nearly two to one,
19:24
SPEAKER_01: so 59% to 30%,
19:26
SPEAKER_01: and 58% say that the push
19:28
SPEAKER_01: to politicize vaccine oversight has left them less confident in
19:32
SPEAKER_01: the leaders responsible for public health.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: This is not the only polling we've seen where it looks like
19:38
SPEAKER_01: the middle has identified what Kennedy is doing and found it scary,
19:43
SPEAKER_01: gross, they don't like it.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: As, you know, the rest of us have for a great deal, great deal of time.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Are you souring on Kennedy, Rob?
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: If I could get any more sour, I'm getting more sour, right?
19:55
SPEAKER_02: As bad as it was in the beginning.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: You'd become a ferment.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: If you soured on Kennedy anymore, you'd become a ferment.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: I would become a ferment.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: No, it's like,
20:04
SPEAKER_02: this feels like,
20:06
SPEAKER_02: and I think a lot of these,
20:07
SPEAKER_02: a lot of Maha probably call themselves independents, right?
20:09
SPEAKER_02: So we've documented that.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: Maha is kind of getting a little frustrated with them promoting pesticides
20:15
SPEAKER_02: and doing nothing about their issues.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: This sort of, to me,
20:19
SPEAKER_02: mirrors the overall affordability issue that people keep talking about,
20:24
SPEAKER_02: and gilding statues in D.C.,
20:26
SPEAKER_02: building a ballroom,
20:27
SPEAKER_02: building an arc to triumph, or whatever they're trying to call it.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: Doing all these lavish renovations,
20:35
SPEAKER_02: either at the White House, the $14 million botched job on the reflecting pool.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Even if that all worked out,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: $14 million,
20:43
SPEAKER_02: while people are saying,
20:43
SPEAKER_02: we can't afford gas, we can't afford food, we can't afford housing.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: And this is,
20:47
SPEAKER_02: if you look at what people are saying about healthcare,
20:49
SPEAKER_02: it isn't that, oh,
20:50
SPEAKER_02: dear Lord,
20:52
SPEAKER_02: we should be able to sue people more for vaccines or,
20:55
SPEAKER_02: oh, man, I think we should have more research in this.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: They're saying we can't afford healthcare.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: And instead of helping them with that, right, he is complicit.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: He's out there giving,
21:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
21:05
SPEAKER_02: a mouthpiece trying to promote why these Medicaid work reporting requirements are
21:09
SPEAKER_02: a good thing.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Instead of doing anything about affordability in healthcare or accessibility
21:13
SPEAKER_02: in healthcare, He's tinkering around with this weird shit that he enjoys.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: It's not surprising that independents who,
21:22
SPEAKER_02: hopefully,
21:22
SPEAKER_02: whoever they are,
21:23
SPEAKER_02: they're looking at this,
21:24
SPEAKER_02: they don't have preconceived notions coming in,
21:26
SPEAKER_02: are looking at this guy and saying, what the hell is this madman doing?
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, and he's working hard on the project of making people dislike him
21:34
SPEAKER_01: because he just had a giant meltdown on CNN.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So Kennedy was interviewed by Dana Bash and it quickly became a shouting match.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: And he interrupted her.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: He like talked over her.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: He explained things,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: science to her in a way that is like weird way where he's like,
21:54
SPEAKER_01: anyway, why don't we just watch a little bit of it?
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Because it's really, you got to see it to believe it.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Scientist, can you show me one study?
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: That shows that children were protected by the COVID vaccine.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you that there are... That vaccine did more good than harm to children.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Can you show me one study that shows that?
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it went on and on and on and on and on.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he was doing these, like, pointing at her.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: He's just like, you hear people in his life say that he's a madman.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: The quote from someone who knew him really well, that he was bursting with madness.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And you saw it.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: You saw it in his eyes on this one.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: He's a Looney Tunes, and he's got way too much power.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, what did you think of that very public meltdown?
22:40
SPEAKER_02: He's used to doing videos with Kid Rock wearing his jeans and chugging milk in a hot tub, right?
22:45
SPEAKER_02: He's used to going on podcasts,
22:47
SPEAKER_02: going And so, like, I thought she did a pretty good job of, uh, I've seen Chris,
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Criticism like, well, she should have pushed back harder on this side or the other.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: You can't be a reporter and be armed with like every last study
23:08
SPEAKER_02: because there are studies, multiple studies.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: We looked it up.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: I've got it in our show notes,
23:13
SPEAKER_02: multiple studies showing the benefits of COVID vaccines in kids and adolescents.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Decreasing the likelihood of severe illness, right?
23:19
SPEAKER_02: Decreasing the likelihood of having COVID, therefore spreading it to other people.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: We have that data, right?
23:25
SPEAKER_02: It's out there.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: He's full of shit.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: He's lying.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: He may or may not know he's lying.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: I suspect he knows he's lying, but he also knows.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: He knows he's lying.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: He knows it's impossible for her to prove the negative, right?
23:35
SPEAKER_02: That's a tactic, right?
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Prove that what I'm saying is not right.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, it's just not right.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: The proof is that it isn't right, is that you're lying, right?
23:43
SPEAKER_02: And so I think she was set up an impossible task, and she did a pretty damn job.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's super hard to interview someone who is like having
23:53
SPEAKER_01: a mental health episode, right?
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Which is what it seemed like was happening.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: One of her best clients, she said, well, you're not a health expert.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: And she said, well, neither are you.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: And it was like, it was
24:03
SPEAKER_01: pretty good.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: It was pretty good.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just like shouting at her
24:07
SPEAKER_01: too.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: It was just like crazy.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I couldn't get through it.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is uncomfortable.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: This is something close to abuse.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: I also think it's really hard to interview a reply guy from
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Twitter.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: The way he argues is like the fourth down reply guy on a Twitter fight.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Show me the face!
24:30
SPEAKER_01: It's just like, what are you talking about, man?
24:34
SPEAKER_02: It's like a shoddy version of Vance,
24:36
SPEAKER_02: or Vance is like an esoteric, you know, faux academic version of Kennedy.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: It's the same tactics, it's just kind of different style.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: And this style, it's just really off-putting and uncomfortable.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: You know,
24:48
SPEAKER_01: and then he did have a quote,
24:49
SPEAKER_01: just the one thing that launched a thousand internet videos is he had a quote
24:53
SPEAKER_01: that said, ICUs were empty during COVID.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: And I just,
24:57
SPEAKER_01: there were a lot of physicians on the internet that came out and said,
25:00
SPEAKER_01: man, you got it.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: The revisionist history stuff on something that was so many people experienced,
25:06
SPEAKER_01: They had loved ones get die or get very hurt.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's a revision of history that I think is like for anyone
25:14
SPEAKER_01: who is like traumatized by that history is really,
25:17
SPEAKER_01: really gross and really upsetting.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: I think like obviously upsetting to so many people who live through it.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: I said it.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: I did a little video.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
25:26
SPEAKER_02: I was actually pulling shifts in an ICU in a hospital about a half hour from me
25:31
SPEAKER_02: because they didn't have enough people.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: They just didn't have enough people around on everybody and like
25:35
SPEAKER_02: to make sure people were getting the care they needed.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm not an ICU doc.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm...
25:40
SPEAKER_02: It's close enough in the ER,
25:41
SPEAKER_02: they kind of said,
25:42
SPEAKER_02: hey, you ER docs, we'll let you come and be a part of the team and you report up.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean,
25:47
SPEAKER_02: just pulling people out of their cars who are blue,
25:49
SPEAKER_02: who are gasping for breath and their oxygen is 50% when it should be over 90.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: Those are realities that we all, we do,
25:57
SPEAKER_02: we sit around and talk about, can you believe we actually were doing this job?
26:02
SPEAKER_02: During all of that, right?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: And at the same time,
26:04
SPEAKER_02: being yelled at in the next room by somebody because they didn't want
26:06
SPEAKER_02: that damn thing up their nose because we made it up and we were making $14,000.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: Some weird number, $14,000.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: That was just the,
26:13
SPEAKER_02: someone must have cited that,
26:14
SPEAKER_02: Alex Jones or someone, and it just got in people's brains.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Because somehow, everyone we diagnosed were getting $14,000.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, damn, damn, I'm missing out.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Where's
26:23
SPEAKER_02: my damn check?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a wild time.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: So when Robert Kennedy is not busy lying about the global pandemic on CNN,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: he is busy with his new celebrity cooking show.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: And yikes, man, this is bad.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: It's a bad show.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Robert Kennedy Jr.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: has started a new YouTube cooking show called The Real Food Show
26:48
SPEAKER_01: that will feature his new upside down food pyramid,
26:51
SPEAKER_01: inexpensive meal prep, celebrity chefs.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: He recently promoted it with an appearance on the USA Today podcast
26:58
SPEAKER_01: with host Swapna Vinagopal Ramaswamy.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: During their conversation, Ramaswamy asked him, what's the most exotic food you've ever eaten?
27:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's roll the tape.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: I will literally eat anything.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't have a gag reflex, let me put it like that.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: I wanted you to
27:19
SPEAKER_01: have to read that.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: I was not going to read that.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: You know,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: the other thing he said, too,
27:24
SPEAKER_01: because this is when the Republicans do the thing that they say the liberals do.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: When people recently asked him about the price of beef, he said, you should eat liver instead.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: You can just eat liver.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is for a niche Manosphere audience on podcasts,
27:42
SPEAKER_01: but I think the vast majority of people are not interested
27:46
SPEAKER_01: in having liver hamburgers.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: They would like to have a hamburger.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
27:50
SPEAKER_01: the price of beef has gone way up because we're blowing shit up in the Middle East
27:53
SPEAKER_01: and inflation is going nuts and the cost of fuel is going up.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: So it has downstream effects on almost all commodities markets.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: And so I just think that's a terrible position to take.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: That's an incredibly unpopular position to take.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: No, folks, liberals aren't taking your hamburgers.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Bobby Kennedy's coming for your hamburgers.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Man, it's insane to me that because apparently he has no gag reflex,
28:18
SPEAKER_02: he'll just fuck anything in there.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: Anything.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: I thought he should maybe call this the Roadkill Cafe,
28:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:25
SPEAKER_02: something like that,
28:25
SPEAKER_02: because he's got a predilection to,
28:27
SPEAKER_02: you know, picking up dead things off the side of the road and maybe experimenting.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if he cooks them up at home or what.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: But just like as an answer to that question, it is...
28:37
SPEAKER_02: You couldn't come up with a weirder answer.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: It isn't, well, I've traveled a lot and I like exploring.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: It's because I don't gag on things, I'll stick anything in there.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: It's insane.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he just ends up having the weirdest answer.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: Just have a normal answer.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: It's the worm, man.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: It's the worm.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: It's the brain worm.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm comfortable saying it all.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Donald Trump has dementia and Robert Kennedy Jr. is suffering from the effects of a brain worm.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Both are true.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: It has to be.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: Prove the negative, Bobby.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Prove that you don't have catastrophic brain damage.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Show me a study that you don't have catastrophic brain damage from the worm.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: Show me a study.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Rob, let's not end on that.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Let's just revisit the fact.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Abdul El-Sayed, he's got a big race ahead of him, but this guy is a massive healthcare advocate.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: He would be an incredible advocate for the universal healthcare movement if he were
29:35
SPEAKER_01: to make it into the Senate.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: So we got an interesting race in Michigan, a lot of opportunity there.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And then we have a set of races in Wisconsin that show a very real path
29:45
SPEAKER_01: to significant reforms that would improve the lives of many, many people.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's not all dark.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: It's not all weird.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not all brain worms.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: We have some really positive developments in the upper Midwest,
29:55
SPEAKER_01: and we could be excited about it.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: And let's be clear, every time we say it, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Dude's a doctor twice over.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Dude's a doctor twice over.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: He's earned the right to say it.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: He's got the chops.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: I think he's going to be a great senator, and I think all of us need to make sure.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: He's one of many that are coming into the Senate,
30:13
SPEAKER_02: giving the gavel back to the Dems,
30:15
SPEAKER_02: and then let's actually do something about the healthcare system as we know it.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Right on.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Hear, hear.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: All right.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to read us out.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Today's episode and all the episodes you watched this week,
30:24
SPEAKER_01: whether the on-call segments or the Situation Womb,
30:27
SPEAKER_01: were produced by Peter Ogburn and Chris Savage.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: This episode was written by Chris Savage, Dr.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Rob Davidson, and me, Miles Baker.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: But all the episodes you saw this week were produced by Peter Ogburn
30:37
SPEAKER_01: and Chris Savage, edited by Peter Ogburn and April Stewie.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: And music across the show is produced by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
30:45
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30:48
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30:51
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30:54
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30:56
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30:58
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31:00
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31:02
SPEAKER_01: You can also follow Paging America on Substack.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Rob, it was great chatting with you today.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: All right.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: See you next week.