Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #672 Madonna King - Daddy Daughter Time

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#672 Madonna King - Daddy Daughter Time · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the.
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  Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just once answers now Gooday. This
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  Speaker 2: is doctor Justin Coilson, Happy twenty twenty three. I've been
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  Speaker 2: really enjoying our Happy Families Podcast summer series, especially as
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  Speaker 2: we've dived back through all of our old summits and
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  Speaker 2: pulled out a whole lot of really valuable conversations with
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  Speaker 2: loads of experts talking about all the different things that
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  Speaker 2: we can do to make our families happier and to
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  Speaker 2: raise resilient, strong kids. Madonna King joined me for a
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  Speaker 2: really important discussion as part of the Misconnection Summit. You
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  Speaker 2: can find the Misconnection Summit by the way at Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au. If you're raising a tween
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  Speaker 2: or teengirl, a load of experts to give you heaps
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  Speaker 2: of fabulous advice for how to raise them well. But
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  Speaker 2: in our conversation, I asked Madonna specifically about daddy daughter time,
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  Speaker 2: and I wanted to know talking about the relationship between
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  Speaker 2: dad and daughter. I wanted to talk about the good
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  Speaker 2: news about when dad is involved, what happens in terms
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  Speaker 2: of his daughter thriving.
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  Speaker 1: For the dads listening that idea of creating memories around
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  Speaker 1: activity and sport is a wonderful example. An afternoon walk,
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  Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon bike ride was just stood out. Almost
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  Speaker 1: one hundred percent of girls who played a sport their
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  Speaker 1: dad was interested in had this beautiful relationship. Another one
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  Speaker 1: was brought up to me by a school principal, a
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  Speaker 1: male school principle in New South Wales, and he said
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  Speaker 1: he'd studied the bond between fathers and daughters in the
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  Speaker 1: playground and he saw that those dads who kept quite
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  Speaker 1: a in your face physical relationship with their daughters, hug them,
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  Speaker 1: kissed them goodbye, held their hand, touched their shoulder, actually
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  Speaker 1: got through that tricky adolescent so much better. And my
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  Speaker 1: last thing about that bond it is girls. When I
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  Speaker 1: asked thirteen hundred girls about their relationship with dad, one
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  Speaker 1: thing that really stood out to me around that age
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  Speaker 1: of maybe thirteen to sixteen is how dad deals with
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  Speaker 1: his daughter's developing opinions. So you know, you know from
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  Speaker 1: your work that a dad can just lift a daughter's
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  Speaker 1: self belief in herself, give a confidence, teach it to
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  Speaker 1: prosecute an argument with clarity and conviction and all those things.
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  Speaker 1: But he can just crush her self confidence in one sentence,
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  Speaker 1: and that's when she presents her opinion. And it might
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  Speaker 1: be an opinion she decided at lunchtime at school today.
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  Speaker 1: She might even be baiting her dad. But if he
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  Speaker 1: puts her down, not her opinion, she just stops talking,
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  Speaker 1: she stops telling him what she thinks. She goes to
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  Speaker 1: school the next day and she says, he doesn't understand me.
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  Speaker 1: They're so hard in the judgment. But I think my
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  Speaker 1: advice around that, given to me by wonderful people like
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  Speaker 1: yourself and other experts, is that our dads should feel
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  Speaker 1: proud that our daughters are trusting them or testing their
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  Speaker 1: intellectual rigor with their dad, and they can take apart
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  Speaker 1: the argument, but never their daughter. One principle said to me,
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  Speaker 1: dads have got to remember they're only ever a dad
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  Speaker 1: in the lounge room, never a QC. I think that's
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  Speaker 1: very good advice. And you know, you and I might
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  Speaker 1: support labor or liberal or the Greens or whatever over
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  Speaker 1: because for twenty years we've seen things happen. Our daughters
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  Speaker 1: are just developing their opinions and they want to know
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  Speaker 1: whether they work or not. And I think a dad's
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  Speaker 1: role in not just dismissing his daughter over an opinion,
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  Speaker 1: particularly on issues like same sex marriage or refugees or
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  Speaker 1: things that can be tricky for families is a really
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  Speaker 1: important thing.
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  Speaker 2: So there are probably about four or five things, Manonna,
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  Speaker 2: that I want to pull out of what you've just said.
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  Speaker 2: And this is one of the great things about talking
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  Speaker 2: with somebody like you, with all this knowledge and so
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  Speaker 2: many conversations that you've had, so much research that you've done.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, I think anyone who's listened to what
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  Speaker 2: you've just said will be inspired to go and do
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  Speaker 2: something this weekend with their tween or teen daughter. Like
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  Speaker 2: just any mum or dad, any care is going to
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  Speaker 2: be like, yeah, they need that time. And I love
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  Speaker 2: that you said that. In fact, you've made me want
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  Speaker 2: to go and book a campsite or something just And
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  Speaker 2: I also love the low barriers to entry, Like I
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  Speaker 2: know you mentioned a few things like horse riding, which
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  Speaker 2: that's a pretty high barrier to entry. We're probably not
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  Speaker 2: going to go and do that on the weekend, but
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  Speaker 2: you can go for a walk, you can go for
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  Speaker 2: a bike ride, you can go camping, just those really
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  Speaker 2: simple things. Really, One.
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  Speaker 1: Dad and his daughter loved ac DC. So they started
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  Speaker 1: a scrap book of just ACDC things and three years
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  Speaker 1: later they got on a plane from Perth and flew
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  Speaker 1: to Sydney together, just dad and daughter. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: they play the music too loud, Mamma get cranky. But
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  Speaker 1: it was something that built memories between the two of them.
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  Speaker 1: So stamp collecting is a bit old fashion maybe, but
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  Speaker 1: things like that where their memories. You know, you said
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  Speaker 1: moms too, and that's right. But you know, I will
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  Speaker 1: always remember the day my daughter and I went and
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  Speaker 1: bought her semi formal dress because often we do that,
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  Speaker 1: mum and daughter, and I think dads sometimes have to
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  Speaker 1: look for those memory creating opportunities.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just thinking of We do a lot of
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  Speaker 2: dancing in the kitchen with the music up really loud,
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  Speaker 2: and we've got a song. It's a Chris Isaac song
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  Speaker 2: called Blue Hotel, and that's just that's our song and I.
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  Speaker 1: Want to hear it sing a few buses Blue Hotel.
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  Speaker 2: Now, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going
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  Speaker 2: to do it, but it's a great song and the
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  Speaker 2: kids know as soon as I put that song on,
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  Speaker 2: we're going to have a great night because there's going
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  Speaker 2: to be dancing in the kitchen. They all line up
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  Speaker 2: and I swing them around and I bounce up and down.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm talking about all of.
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  Speaker 2: Them up to my twenty something year old who's married.
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  Speaker 2: When that song comes on, we know we're going to
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  Speaker 2: have a party. So that just I love the idea
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  Speaker 2: of just having that time. The next thing that you
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  Speaker 2: mentioned was the importance of sport. And while again not
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  Speaker 2: every parent is going to be into sport, not every
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  Speaker 2: child is going to be into sport, there is once
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  Speaker 2: again something remarkable that happens when you're willing to sit
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  Speaker 2: on the sideline of a netball court on a cold
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  Speaker 2: winter's morning and Chief order.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right, and you're all right, my
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  Speaker 1: daughter's aren't sporty. And when I found this research, I
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  Speaker 1: came home to my husband and I said, look, we've
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  Speaker 1: got to find You've got to find something to do
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  Speaker 1: with them. And so with one he started doing you know,
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  Speaker 1: the park run, but they walk at each Saturday with yather.
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  Speaker 1: He started pilates and this shows it works. Three weeks
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  Speaker 1: after the them they go every Monday night to Polartes.
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  Speaker 1: And three weeks after they started, I turned to my
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  Speaker 1: then sixteen year old, and I said, Maddie, so what's
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  Speaker 1: the gods what happened at polartes. I saw her turn
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  Speaker 1: to my husband wink and say, sorry, Mum, but what
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  Speaker 1: goes on at pilarts stays a plus. And I think
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  Speaker 1: it's the idea. Girls think, well, Dad's willing to have
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  Speaker 1: me as his partner in this. I think it helps
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  Speaker 1: that it's physical activity, that it's actually I think they
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  Speaker 1: want to talk to mum sometimes more and we might
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  Speaker 1: get to that, but I think they like I said
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  Speaker 1: to girls, what do you want to do with dad?
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  Speaker 1: And overwhelmingly, whether they're six or eighteen, it's do things.
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  Speaker 1: I want dad to play with me more. I want
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  Speaker 1: dad to swim with me, to go on the trampoline
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  Speaker 1: with me. As seventeen year old said more than anything,
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  Speaker 1: I want to walk co Coda trail with my dad.
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  Speaker 1: And so it changes. But almost one hundred percent of
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  Speaker 1: them who had a dad in their life wanted to
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  Speaker 1: do something physical wisdom, and I think, you know, kids
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  Speaker 1: don't lie. So many kids, thirteen hundred girls saying that
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  Speaker 1: there's something that we can learn from, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: Well I'm at a junction here where I want to
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  Speaker 2: go in two different ways with our conversation. So I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to come back to the active life idea in
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  Speaker 2: a moment, but first I want to get all sciencey
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  Speaker 2: with you. When we look at the scientific evidence, whether
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  Speaker 2: it's neurological, whether it's psychological, emotional, When we look at
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  Speaker 2: the data about children and academics or their social life,
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  Speaker 2: what did you find as you were researching that the
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  Speaker 2: data showed happens to girls whose dads, whether dad's living
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  Speaker 2: at home with them or not, when dad is involved
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  Speaker 2: in their lives. What were the general findings in terms
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  Speaker 2: of between and teen girls' life outcomes.
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  Speaker 1: I think they were just more open. And I'll say here,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a psychologist, I'm not an educator. I'm a journalist.
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  Speaker 1: And what I do is go and interview people thirteen
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  Speaker 1: hundred girls and four hundred dads in this case, and
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  Speaker 1: I think you know, we're now girls are little there.
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  Speaker 1: Oh this sounds terribly sexist, but many dads see them
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  Speaker 1: as their little princess, their little buddy, you know, whether
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  Speaker 1: they're helping them in the garage or sitting on their
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  Speaker 1: knee watching the Wiggles. It's this really lovely bond, and
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  Speaker 1: it's really challenged a bit like an elastic band. Around
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  Speaker 1: the time of ten, eleven and twelve, when girls see
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  Speaker 1: that dad, that other families have different rules, that other
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  Speaker 1: girls have different dads who have different roles in their lives,
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  Speaker 1: and for the first time, Dad is no longer of
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  Speaker 1: this big superhero. He's vulnerable. He can get the decision wrong,
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  Speaker 1: he can give them the wrong pocket money, he can
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  Speaker 1: say the wrong thing. And poor old dads, who I
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  Speaker 1: think the community just needs to rethink the role of
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  Speaker 1: dads more broadly. But dads often to help their daughter,
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  Speaker 1: maybe to make it more comfortable for themselves in sud cases,
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  Speaker 1: take a step back, and I think if they do
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  Speaker 1: around that age, it's really hard. I found in the
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  Speaker 1: research I did for them at fifteen and sixteen to
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  Speaker 1: develop that close bond. And so I think girls who
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  Speaker 1: have dad constantly in their lives happily will say, Dad,
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  Speaker 1: I'm out of tampons, can you get put it on
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  Speaker 1: the grocery list? Or Dad, i've got period pain. Would
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  Speaker 1: you go to the chemist for me? You know? And
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  Speaker 1: dad wrapped around the finger, or get in the car
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  Speaker 1: and go. But what a delightful, delightful relationship, but also
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  Speaker 1: how lovely for our girls that they get Dad's take
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  Speaker 1: on things. You know, justin I ask girls to nominate
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  Speaker 1: the five adjectives they love most about their dad. And
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  Speaker 1: there were five adjectives that came up hundreds of times,
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  Speaker 1: not not dozens of times, and they were They love
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  Speaker 1: that they are rational, hard working, successful, organized, and calm.
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  Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean that Mum's not, but hundreds and
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  Speaker 1: hundreds of girls told me rational, hard working, successful, organized,
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  Speaker 1: and calm with the attributes in Dad that they loved.
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  Speaker 1: And so I think if our daughters have access to that,
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  Speaker 1: they are going to be able to think more rationally.
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  Speaker 1: They're going to maybe be calmer. If Dad can role
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  Speaker 1: model that, they're going to grow up being able to
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  Speaker 1: talk to boys as well as girls. Their relationships will
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  Speaker 1: be healthier because Dad is the first person that they
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  Speaker 1: the first male that they love, and he sets the
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  Speaker 1: bar on how they can expect to be treated later on.
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  Speaker 1: And I say to Dad, set that bloody bar as
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  Speaker 1: high as you like. But if girls see Dad speaking
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  Speaker 1: down to other women, they learn that they can be
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  Speaker 1: spoken down to. They believe that's how they will be treated.
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  Speaker 1: And so when you say what do girls get out
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  Speaker 1: of it? They get the world out of it. Of
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  Speaker 1: course they need mum. But there are some things that
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  Speaker 1: I learned that dads can deliver because the evidence shows that,
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  Speaker 1: and I don't think we encourage that enough.
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  Speaker 2: That's Madonna King. She's the author of Fathers and Daughters,
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  Speaker 2: Being fourteen and l players, a prolific, wonderful writer and
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  Speaker 2: so insightful. I love talking to Madonna. That was part
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  Speaker 2: of the Misconnection Summit that you can find at Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au. The Happy Families Summer series,
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  Speaker 2: our podcast series Right Through Summer, continues tomorrow when Kylie
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  Speaker 2: joins me again in the Happy Family's studio. Hey, I
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  Speaker 2: really hope you're enjoying you summer holidays. Can't wait to
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  Speaker 2: join you tomorrow for another podcast episode.