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Samir Suleiman: Tough, Fair, and Built to Last · Uncommon Impact

• 0:01
  Nathan Whitaker: Today's guest is Samir Suleiman.
• 0:03
  Nathan Whitaker: Samir and I worked together for the Jacksonville Jaguars from 1998 to 2000.
• 0:08
  Nathan Whitaker: We had an interesting experience that we really didn't dig into too much because we wanted to keep the episode positive.
• 0:14
  Nathan Whitaker: But we were in an environment - we'll talk about Coach Coughlin in the episode, and that was all great.
• 0:19
  Nathan Whitaker: His leadership skills are fantastic, with some folks who created a toxic environment.
• 0:24
  Nathan Whitaker: And so I think Samir and I both learned going forward some of the things that we wanted to do, some of the things that we weren't going to do as we moved forward in our journey.
• 0:32
  Nathan Whitaker: Samir then went on to work for the St.
• 0:35
  Nathan Whitaker: Louis Rams, the Carolina Panthers as a vice president, the Pittsburgh Steelers in a variety of capacities, while I worked for the Buccaneers and then, of course, left the NFL altogether.
• 0:44
  Nathan Whitaker: I don't think it's a surprise that we are still friends 25 years later, despite being pitted against each other at times in that toxic environment. There were four or five of us who worked closely together, often with overlapping responsibilities and often in ways in which we're set up to be in conflict.
• 1:01
  Nathan Whitaker: One, I think that's just a lousy leadership skill.
• 1:04
  Nathan Whitaker: But two, if you're a leader who pits folks against each other, understand that eventually, somehow, some way, people are going to talk.
• 1:14
  Nathan Whitaker: And so people will end up building trust and relationships, but not with you.
• 1:20
  Nathan Whitaker: They'll build them with each other.
• 1:21
  Nathan Whitaker: And that's exactly what happened here.
• 1:23
  Nathan Whitaker: So 25 years later, Samir and I are still good friends.
• 1:27
  Nathan Whitaker: I hope you enjoy his thoughts on leadership, team building, and living life.
• 1:31
  Nathan Whitaker: Samir, thanks so much for joining me.
• 1:32
  Nathan Whitaker: It's a pleasure to have you today.
• 1:34
  Samir Suleiman: Thanks, Nathan.
• 1:35
  Samir Suleiman: It's great to be on here, and it's good to see you again after all these years.
• 1:38
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah, we've stayed in touch, but we really haven't been together face to face since uh 1998 to 2000-ish, and I guess that's been at least two or three years ago.
• 1:48
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, yeah, it's been a minute.
• 1:50
  Samir Suleiman: You look the same.
• 1:52
  Samir Suleiman: I commented earlier, you you haven't aged a day.
• 1:55
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah, I've been trying to gray, but it's going to be too late by the time it comes, I'm sure, and I'll truly be old.
• 2:00
  Nathan Whitaker: Let me just jump in and ask you, talk to me about somebody who got you shaped in the way you think about leadership and being uncommon and the like, and talk about somebody who was influential in that in that way and what you learned.
• 2:13
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, I mean, I'll actually, you know, when I think about my style of leadership, I think it was shaped over the last few decades.
• 2:18
  Samir Suleiman: You know, I think I could pinpoint it probably down to three people starting, you know, going back to my high school days.
• 2:24
  Samir Suleiman: I graduated from a military high school that had an ROTC affiliation program with the Air Force.
• 2:30
  Samir Suleiman: So there I learned under at least four retired Air Force colonels, and one in particular, Colonel Ivan Meith, you know, may he rest in peace.
• 2:38
  Samir Suleiman: Um, you know, he just had a way of doing things.
• 2:41
  Samir Suleiman: He had the most difficult job there, where he had to run the school on a daily basis.
• 2:46
  Samir Suleiman: He had to build relationships with students from all different backgrounds all over the world, and then he had to enforce all the rules of the military school.
• 2:55
  Samir Suleiman: And the one thing that I always remembered about him was that he was tough but fair.
• 2:59
  Samir Suleiman: And coincidentally, that happened to be like my negotiating philosophy years later, you know, in the NFL when I did that.
• 3:05
  Samir Suleiman: You know, no matter when I came out of a deal, you know, you know, the agents and players might not be happy about it.
• 3:12
  Samir Suleiman: Um, but I can always, you know, rest my head on I was I was tough but I was fair.
• 3:16
  Samir Suleiman: I never shoved a bad deal down their throat.
• 3:18
  Samir Suleiman: Um, you know, and then fast forward to when I worked for the St.
• 3:21
  Samir Suleiman: Louis Rams, I worked for Jay Zygmunt, who I learned more from him than probably every other person I worked with or for, you know, combined.
• 3:28
  Samir Suleiman: He just taught me something different every day.
• 3:30
  Samir Suleiman: But in terms of being a leader, he taught me how to deal with difficult people.
• 3:34
  Samir Suleiman: He taught me how to um build a collabor collaborative effort, you know, based on just taking the opinions of ownership, coaches, scouts, and then putting your ego aside because as you know, the NFL is a business, there's no shortage of big egos, and making the right decision in the best interest of the organization.
• 3:53
  Samir Suleiman: Um so that probably resonated the most with me.
• 3:55
  Samir Suleiman: And then lastly, when I worked for the Pittsburgh Steelers, I was fortunate uh to work for Ambassador Rooney, you know, me he may he rest in peace.
• 4:04
  Samir Suleiman: And he just taught me how to treat people, you know, as a leader.
• 4:06
  Samir Suleiman: You know, it didn't matter uh whether you were a subordinate, a coach, a player, member of the media, a fan.
• 4:12
  Samir Suleiman: He just had a a knack for making everybody feel important.
• 4:16
  Samir Suleiman: And he also had a way of getting his point across, you know, without being a jerk or a dictator.
• 4:21
  Samir Suleiman: Um I'll tell you a quick story.
• 4:23
  Samir Suleiman: He used to pop his head in and sit in on draft meetings, and one year we come into the draft meetings, and he had left a copy, photocopies of a Charlie Brown cartoon in which the characters had said something like, I just hope my team makes the playoffs this year.
• 4:39
  Samir Suleiman: And so Ambassador Rooney scribbled on there, we are not Charlie Brown, meaning making the playoffs isn't good enough for the six-time world champions, and it was point well taken, you know, in a comedic manner.
• 4:51
  Samir Suleiman: So um, you know, that's something I just always remember about him.
• 4:54
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah, that's great.
• 4:55
  Nathan Whitaker: So yeah, Jay Zygmunt, you know, I don't I don't think I ever met Jay, but boy, you you worked for a variety of places in addition to your military school, high school, which really had to be, that had to be tough, right?
• 5:04
  Nathan Whitaker: To to be in charge of that and to bring in people from all over and to enforce rules um and be tough but fair.
• 5:12
  Nathan Whitaker: Uh, I'm sure you learned a lot from that.
• 5:13
  Nathan Whitaker: But then you went to play at JMU and then worked for a variety of teams.
• 5:18
  Nathan Whitaker: So talk to me a little bit about um that idea of being tough but fair.
• 5:24
  Nathan Whitaker: And and I mean, I think part of that probably is that you know you're going to be dealing with the same people over and over.
• 5:31
  Nathan Whitaker: And so if you do end up getting the better end of a deal or really sticking it to somebody, maybe it helps you today, but it's not gonna help you in the next negotiation with another player if the agent says, Well, we're not going to we're not gonna talk to Samir because all he wants to do is win and and he's not gonna come up with a good solution here for all of us.
• 5:49
  Nathan Whitaker: Is that is that fair?
• 5:50
  Nathan Whitaker: Is that part of it?
• 5:51
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, I get part of it's just doing the right thing, right?
• 5:53
  Nathan Whitaker: But part of it also is thinking long-term about how we do what we do and why we why we try to influence others.
• 5:59
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, I mean, I I always I feel like I had the most difficult position at all the teams worked with um in just being the lead negotiator because you're you're the you're the bad guy, right?
• 6:09
  Samir Suleiman: You're the guy that has to say no to agents and players when they want everything, or or even you know, owners and coaches when you have to tell them, hey, we can't do it that bad of a deal, we can't put this clause in there, we can't pay that.
• 6:21
  Samir Suleiman: Um, and it's really just again, taking um what everyone's needs are and hearing their opinion out, and then just trying to do make the best decision for the team, not just in the present, but long term in a couple of years down the road, and and even with precedents, you know, keeping those in mind because the agents are the first ones that are going to remind you if you did something uh way back when that you won't do in the future.
• 6:46
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, I I I feel comfortable saying, you know, like I said before, I never shoved a bad deal down somebody's throat.
• 6:53
  Samir Suleiman: Um, you always, like you said, you always have to maintain these relationships because you don't know if um you know the own the agent for a seventh round pick one year is gonna have the the pride of the ball for in free agency the following year.
• 7:07
  Samir Suleiman: And so um, you know, I I've maintained cordial relationships, you know, over several decades.
• 7:12
  Samir Suleiman: And and like I said, I mean I I consider some agents friends and some of them just um you know acquaintances.
• 7:19
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 7:19
  Nathan Whitaker: And and I and you learn over time who you can who you can relate to on a certain level and and levels of trust and and who there is and who there isn't, and and figuring out how best to do that.
• 7:29
  Nathan Whitaker: Um no, it's a that was a tough position.
• 7:31
  Nathan Whitaker: I didn't do it nearly as long as you did, but I learned an early um lesson right after I'd left you guys in Jacksonville.
• 7:38
  Nathan Whitaker: I went to Tampa and um and negotiated a draft pick with a longtime agent and longtime agent for Buccaneer players.
• 7:48
  Nathan Whitaker: And so uh and so they said, okay, you know, here's what we're gonna work out, and you know, just in our internal meetings, and and then we'd use our standard language, or that's what I heard.
• 7:58
  Nathan Whitaker: And so I get the whole deal done, and I don't remember what the issue was anymore, but I said, All right, great, I'll just send the standard language.
• 8:04
  Nathan Whitaker: And the agent called me and he was agitated, and I can't remember if it was an injury clause or something.
• 8:10
  Nathan Whitaker: But he said, You guys have never used this, and you know, this is in order to get this, if you had told me this on the front end, then the numbers would have had to be different for us to give away whatever it was.
• 8:21
  Nathan Whitaker: And I went to one of my coworkers and I'm like, hey, this is our standard language, right?
• 8:25
  Nathan Whitaker: And they went, No, no, no, no, this was the new language we were putting in on our oh my gosh.
• 8:29
  Nathan Whitaker: So, but but from that standpoint of like, you know, I hadn't there wasn't anything to win.
• 8:34
  Nathan Whitaker: I had to go back and say, okay, this is a relationship worth preserving.
• 8:37
  Nathan Whitaker: I did not, and I had to go back and say I totally misunderstood.
• 8:40
  Nathan Whitaker: I was not trying to pull a fast one.
• 8:42
  Nathan Whitaker: And and it was a for me really awkward because I felt like I had I had to walk back what looked like I was being insincere or or trying to pull a fast one.
• 8:50
  Nathan Whitaker: Anyway, um those are tough.
• 8:53
  Nathan Whitaker: And I don't uh I didn't, yeah, for you to do it for as long as you did, um, you know, those settings is uh not easy.
• 8:59
  Nathan Whitaker: And we also had, you know, one of the things I, you know, our I hope our listeners will appreciate.
• 9:04
  Nathan Whitaker: You talked about agents, players, and being the bad guy, but but you know, when I was in Tampa, um, we always had the late uh Monte Kiffin now who passed away a couple years ago.
• 9:15
  Nathan Whitaker: He would always run in during free agency, he'd come running into my office or the GM's office and say, hey, we've got to sign so-and-so.
• 9:22
  Nathan Whitaker: We can't even field a defense if we don't get so-and-so.
• 9:25
  Nathan Whitaker: And um, and so anyway, that you know, we'd either get it done or not get it done, and always remind Monte in September by the end of the year as they had the top-ranked defense again or whatever it was that Monte had coached up.
• 9:37
  Nathan Whitaker: Hey, don't forget, we're always just fine with your coaching and we'll figure it out.
• 9:41
  Nathan Whitaker: Right.
• 9:41
  Nathan Whitaker: But it was hard dealing within the right.
• 9:43
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, our own constituents sometimes can be even harder than than how we we have to deal with folks outside the building at times.
• 9:50
  Samir Suleiman: Oh, absolutely.
• 9:50
  Samir Suleiman: I mean, my my biggest battles were within the building, just trying to get people to to focus on the plan that we had already laid out and not get emotional.
• 9:57
  Samir Suleiman: And um, you know, it's like I said, it was it was a struggle every day, I guess, you know, to just try to keep everybody on the same page in all those different buildings.
• 10:07
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Nathan Whitaker: So let me ask you this, then, about some of the different people, some of the different personalities.
• 10:12
  Nathan Whitaker: We talked a little bit about, you mentioned the NFL in general, and that there are some egos.
• 10:17
  Nathan Whitaker: Um, there were also, whether it's in professional sports or corporate America or you know, banking or whatever the industry might be, um, there are some bullies, right?
• 10:28
  Nathan Whitaker: Sometimes people think of leadership as I get to dictate to you, I get to tell you what to do, I've worked my way up so that now I can be in charge and make people do things.
• 10:37
  Nathan Whitaker: Um I know firsthand that you have worked with um, I don't know if bully is the right word, dysfunctional types.
• 10:45
  Nathan Whitaker: What'd you learn?
• 10:46
  Nathan Whitaker: Did you learn anything positive from that?
• 10:47
  Nathan Whitaker: Or was it all just like, I just got to get out of here and get away from this?
• 10:52
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, I mean, without naming names, I've I've definitely worked with a couple of uh A-holes to keep it clean on your podcast.
• 10:58
  Samir Suleiman: Um where they, you know, despite having you know some success on the field, they alienated everybody in the building because they just uh abused this their authority and their and their power within the building just to try to, you know, just wear people down and um even completely unnecessary and people, you know, completely uh, you know, I don't want to say didn't matter, but really they weren't crucial to that coach's helping that coach win, you know, in their roles.
• 11:28
  Samir Suleiman: They just but they just crushed these people because they could.
• 11:31
  Samir Suleiman: And so what I learned more um just about not to do, I mean, it's like you know, bullies right, everybody deals with bullies going back to a kid, and you know, I'll never forget, you know, probably sixth grade, the first time, you know, I dealt with a bully.
• 11:45
  Samir Suleiman: I I beat the h--- out of them.
• 11:46
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, it's not something I'm proud of, but you had to do it.
• 11:49
  Samir Suleiman: And um, you know, you can't do that in the in corporate America, but you can definitely stand up for yourself and take a stand and and voice your opinion and and and stand your ground.
• 11:58
  Samir Suleiman: And so I had no problem doing that, you know, on a couple of occasions where um, you know, it it didn't matter if um again keeping emotions in check, it was doing it was there's a difference between right and wrong with something that's gonna hurt the franchise and something that's not, and I I firmly believed in it.
• 12:16
  Samir Suleiman: And in the end, you know, um ownership you know backed me, you know, and and it was the right decision for the organization, which at the end of the day, that's all that's what that's what it's all about, and that's that's what my job was.
• 12:27
  Samir Suleiman: So um yeah, I mean the the the thing I learned from dealing with these bullies in the workplace is when they weren't winning and you know they're suffering losing streaks and they're on the verge of getting fired.
• 12:39
  Samir Suleiman: Guess what?
• 12:40
  Samir Suleiman: They didn't have any allies in the building because they alienated them all, and everybody couldn't wait until their a----- got fired.
• 12:45
  Samir Suleiman: I had to curse at least once on your podcast.
• 12:49
  Nathan Whitaker: Thank you.
• 12:49
  Nathan Whitaker: Thank you so much.
• 12:50
  Nathan Whitaker: I should have known that was coming.
• 12:52
  Nathan Whitaker: Well, I th I you know, and and part of it too, I think, is is um yeah, even even if things go okay, I I'm not sure it's sustainable from the standpoint of you know, one, when you start losing or when the profits are no longer there, or whatever it is, people are like, okay, let's get rid of because they're already sick of you.
• 13:12
  Nathan Whitaker: But also, I think people are just looking for the exit, right?
• 13:15
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, that that it's hard to sustain it, that I can only mistreat people for so long before either I'm gonna be gone or they're gonna be gone, that I can't build a functioning team that lasts over time if I don't figure out a way to treat people reasonably well.
• 13:30
  Nathan Whitaker: I think they're you know, a lot of times it's basically just being honest and and trustworthy, right?
• 13:35
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, we don't have to necessarily be friends with everybody or have everybody over to dinner, but at least there are certain ways that we should treat each other.
• 13:41
  Nathan Whitaker: Um I think it does get to that, that this idea that it's not gonna last if you don't treat people okay.
• 13:47
  Samir Suleiman: Right, and I always like to think, you know, um disagreement is it's an it's healthy in a work environment, but you know, disrespect is not, and it's not it's just not sustainable.
• 13:58
  Samir Suleiman: And I think a lot of coaches and and people in power forget that.
• 14:02
  Samir Suleiman: Um and you know, as a result, unfortunately, there's there's been a lot of I've seen a lot of good, competent, loyal employees that just couldn't take it anymore or couldn't, you know, stand up to them like I did that they, you know, they left or they were fired, and it's it's unfortunate for that organization.
• 14:18
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah, especially when you've got people who are to me, I think disagreement um shows that that you've at least got folks that are willing to think and to try to get to the best answer.
• 14:29
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, if there's no disagreement, then we really don't need anybody but the leader in the room, right?
• 14:34
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, if and and I've been those places too, and you're like, well, I think we could be better if we if we actually had some ability to disagree.
• 14:41
  Nathan Whitaker: Well, let me ask you a little bit then about um this idea of of people being fired or moving on.
• 14:46
  Nathan Whitaker: You, you know, you were part of an industry where it's it's almost a badge of honor if you get fired repeatedly.
• 14:52
  Nathan Whitaker: I got fired by the by the Bucs, and then later, um, and and was just like, you know, to my buddies who had gone to law school, they're like, oh my gosh, you got fired.
• 14:59
  Nathan Whitaker: I'm like, oh, everybody gets fired.
• 15:00
  Nathan Whitaker: It's just a part of and then after after a while, I it just started to chip away at me a little bit, and I thought, well, maybe I got fired because uh did you ever struggle with any of those thoughts about moving or having things not work out the way you wanted and and having the internal voice kind of kind of that you had to wrestle with?
• 15:19
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, sure.
• 15:20
  Samir Suleiman: But I I think you know, in professional sports, especially the NFL, um, if you're in it long enough and if you stand up for anything you believe in, you're gonna get fired no matter what.
• 15:31
  Samir Suleiman: No matter no matter how good you're at your job, no matter how loyal you are, it doesn't matter.
• 15:36
  Samir Suleiman: Owners don't care, nobody cares.
• 15:38
  Samir Suleiman: And so, sure, you know, when I when I was at the Rams, uh, I, along with probably at least 30 other people, were let go when there was an ownership change.
• 15:46
  Samir Suleiman: Um, and you know, of course you do the the self-assessment, like, you know, what could I do differently?
• 15:51
  Samir Suleiman: You know, maybe maybe I shouldn't have spoken up here or there.
• 15:54
  Samir Suleiman: But at the end of the day, like I said, if if you can hang your hat and and sleep at night and say, you know what, um, yeah, there there probably are some things I would have done differently, and there's there's some that I I would do again.
• 16:05
  Samir Suleiman: Um and that's that's all that matters is real really how you know how you can deal with yourself internally.
• 16:10
  Samir Suleiman: Um because you know, the again, the with the way the business is, you know, once you're gone, once you're out, no nobody cares about you.
• 16:16
  Samir Suleiman: They're not thinking about you.
• 16:18
  Samir Suleiman: You know, so it's like you have to take care of yourself and and just keep going forward.
• 16:22
  Samir Suleiman: You know, I I try to I try to deal with um you know uh things like that, setbacks like that.
• 16:29
  Samir Suleiman: You know, I I take the old saying, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you strong.
• 16:33
  Samir Suleiman: I take that literally.
• 16:34
  Samir Suleiman: So it's like, yeah, when I left the Rams, I asked myself, okay, am I dying?
• 16:37
  Samir Suleiman: No, of course not, I'm not dying.
• 16:39
  Samir Suleiman: Move on, you know, go on to the next thing.
• 16:41
  Samir Suleiman: And I and I ended up working for the Steelers, you know, for seven years and a great organization and a great family, and um had a lot of success there.
• 16:48
  Nathan Whitaker: So it sounds silly, uh, maybe not silly when you say it, like, am I dying?
• 16:52
  Nathan Whitaker: Um, but I think there are there are times when we do take for granted some of the things.
• 16:58
  Nathan Whitaker: We get so focused on what went wrong, or okay, I'm no longer there, and and you start to kind of to me anyway, I can get into these downward spirals and this what did I lose and what's gone, and versus thinking about okay, what do I still have intact?
• 17:11
  Nathan Whitaker: What can I build on now and what's still in place?
• 17:14
  Nathan Whitaker: And um so that's a great reminder.
• 17:16
  Nathan Whitaker: Thanks.
• 17:16
  Nathan Whitaker: All right, let me ask you this.
• 17:17
  Nathan Whitaker: Let me pivot just a hair.
• 17:19
  Nathan Whitaker: Panthers, Steelers, Rams, Jaguars.
• 17:22
  Nathan Whitaker: Um you were organizations where you had some future Hall of Famers and you had some guys who were just kind of filling out the 53-man roster.
• 17:33
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, all unbelievably talented, of course.
• 17:36
  Nathan Whitaker: Um what do you do when it comes to team building?
• 17:39
  Nathan Whitaker: Or, you know, when you're looking at an uncommon group or having an uncommon impact, what about team building when you've got stars and folks who aren't?
• 17:47
  Nathan Whitaker: Do you treat them differently?
• 17:48
  Nathan Whitaker: Do you treat everybody the same?
• 17:49
  Nathan Whitaker: How do you how do you navigate that?
• 17:52
  Samir Suleiman: You know, I've I've seen it handled both ways.
• 17:54
  Samir Suleiman: Um personally, I think you should treat everybody the same.
• 17:59
  Samir Suleiman: Uh, but I think ultimately it depends, it's it's up to the head coach how they want to treat the team.
• 18:04
  Samir Suleiman: And so I had the fortune of, you know, we were both in Jacksonville uh with with Coach Coughlin, and he treated everybody the same, right?
• 18:11
  Samir Suleiman: I I remember I think one time um you know we were looking at the when he would have injured players ride the [stationary] bikes in full pads, you know, during practice, and I think we looked over there once, and I think one of our pro bowlers was doing that, and you know, much to the chagrin of the players at the time, but you know, you can't argue with the success that we had um you know at that time in '99, which is still the best season in that franchise's history where um you know every player on offense, every every player on defense was rolling.
• 18:38
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, I still keep in touch with some of those players, and you know, you talk to them now about those days, like they appreciate Coach Coughlin, you know, treating them all fairly as as equal men.
• 18:47
  Samir Suleiman: Um at the Steelers, you know, coach um Coach Tomlin, who um you know also pronounced Tomlin by the Pittsburgh Yinzers, um, but he had a knack for being able to manage all the egos and the stars you know on the team at the time because he was able to understand their their personal aptitude.
• 19:07
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, one um particular point that comes to mind is Antonio Brown, you know, where um you know there were times where, myself included, I I questioned, you know, why he would allow him to be late for a meeting and not fine him and stuff.
• 19:20
  Samir Suleiman: And um, but there's no second guessing the success that that Coach Tomlin had with Antonio on the field because after Antonio left the Steelers, no other coach knew how to manage him to get that performance all out of him.
• 19:32
  Samir Suleiman: Those two instances, you're you're talking about you know, future Hall of Fame, Super Bowl winning future Hall of Fame coaches.
• 19:38
  Samir Suleiman: And I've seen the opposite end with much lesser coaches who, you know, they were they were not as frankly, they weren't as good a coaches, obviously, as as Coughlin or Tomlin, and it showed, and so they did not know how to manage their players, and so they tried to really baby and um you know kiss the butts of the star players, and it didn't work because the players ate it up and then they got away with things that you know they probably shouldn't have.
• 20:02
  Samir Suleiman: And um, you just never saw the results, both out of the player, out of the coach, or out of the team.
• 20:08
  Nathan Whitaker: Well, it's a hard thing to navigate, right?
• 20:09
  Nathan Whitaker: I mean, especially if you're thinking about Mike Tomlin and and uh you know, we started, he and I started in Tampa together.
• 20:16
  Nathan Whitaker: Uh he had just come in as a new coach from the University of Cincinnati, and um and you're like, man, this guy is really wired differently.
• 20:24
  Nathan Whitaker: And then he goes on to this Hall of Fame career while I'm you know sitting in my office.
• 20:28
  Nathan Whitaker: Um, okay, we we started together.
• 20:30
  Nathan Whitaker: Um but Mike is uh but I think that's really hard, right?
• 20:34
  Nathan Whitaker: I think that's a really hard thing to navigate, and it takes somebody special to you don't have to necessarily treat everybody exactly the same, but I I remember um you know talking to somebody at another team about wait, wait, wait, you Tony Boselli and Mark Brunell, they have to go check in at meals during training camp?
• 20:49
  Nathan Whitaker: And I remember looking at them going, of course they do.
• 20:52
  Nathan Whitaker: Because that's just what Coach Coughlin did in Jacksonville, that they were, you know, everybody was gonna do, and and those guys didn't mind, right?
• 20:58
  Nathan Whitaker: They were like, no, I'm a part of this.
• 20:59
  Nathan Whitaker: And and this guy was saying, yeah, well, uh at our place, our guys won't even roll in for that.
• 21:04
  Nathan Whitaker: We can't even get them to drive their cars in during training camp for certain things.
• 21:08
  Nathan Whitaker: And and I think that's really hard to navigate if if you're if you don't have a really good finger on the pulse of not only the Antonio Browns, but then the rest of the team.
• 21:16
  Nathan Whitaker: If you're if you're gonna head down that path, you've got to be able to figure out how do I not create a fissure here, how do I not create a crack in in the lining of the team.
• 21:25
  Nathan Whitaker: Um hard thing to do.
• 21:27
  Samir Suleiman: It is, it is, and and that's why only a few can can do it and know how to do it.
• 21:32
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, it's funny when you think about back about Coach Coughlin, you know, when when the Patriots were having their dynasty and the whole Do Your Job mantra became famous.
• 21:41
  Samir Suleiman: I mean, you think back that's all Coach Coughlin ever asked of anybody in the building, was just he held everybody accountable just to do their job, and and you know, he he felt like if everybody did their job we'd be fine.
• 21:51
  Samir Suleiman: And and that's usually the case, but it's um you know, rarely rarely you see you rarely you see it put together, I guess, organization wide.
• 22:00
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, no, no doubt.
• 22:02
  Nathan Whitaker: Coach was totally focused on that with that approach, as we saw over and over.
• 22:08
  Nathan Whitaker: All right, let me ask you one more thing and then and then uh kind of one last question and then and then pivot.
• 22:15
  Nathan Whitaker: Um were there habits, you know, Coach Coughlin certainly had habits and others and disciplines, and were there habits or disciplines you picked up from any of the leaders you've been around or coaches or that were helpful, or were there things where you thought, you know what, that's great for them, but I've got to be my own person?
• 22:32
  Nathan Whitaker: What about that?
• 22:34
  Samir Suleiman: You know, I think working for Jay for nine years in St.
• 22:37
  Samir Suleiman: Louis, um, you know, I think I take a lot of his transformational leadership uh qualities where he was, you know, obviously incredibly intelligent and competent, taught me something every day, but he was um he really encouraged me to you know broaden my uh horizons and my responsibilities, and and he was always there to to help if I needed it, but he never micromanaged, which you know, again, not coincidentally, I I thrived, you know, in St.
• 23:05
  Samir Suleiman: Louis where I had the most both personal and team success.
• 23:08
  Samir Suleiman: And you know, you go other I've been a couple other places since then where I was micromanaged, and it was an awful working situation.
• 23:14
  Samir Suleiman: So I think seeing how he kind of took me under his wing, mentored me, you know, as I've gotten older, I I think I've taken more of that approach with uh really trying to help my co-workers grow and and get better and um do things like that.
• 23:28
  Nathan Whitaker: And that can be, I think, so challenging, um, or at least more challenging for the leader, right?
• 23:33
  Nathan Whitaker: If if I'm, hey, take on new things, grow, take something off my plate, or if there's something you'd like to sit in on or do, or if you want to take a class or a course, or I mean that's great to say, but then it's it's sometimes easier to just micromanage and go, look, here's the check- I just want you to read this checklist to the agent.
• 23:51
  Nathan Whitaker: When you talk to the agent, I just need these points figured out, this checklist, just do that and make it exactly like that.
• 23:56
  Nathan Whitaker: Easy, we'll all get home, whatever, versus this whole, I'm gonna let you grow, you may make mistakes, we may have to step in.
• 24:04
  Nathan Whitaker: Um that's great that he took that approach, though.
• 24:06
  Nathan Whitaker: And I remember talking to you during those those years, and you were really flourishing in a way that uh that was different than what we had what we had been through together.
• 24:15
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, and no, I mean I I really I firm or believe that's just the way a leader should be, is you know, you you hire the best people to do their job, you're there to help them if they need it, and you just stay out of the way and let them do their job, and and you know, everything will be fine.
• 24:30
  Samir Suleiman: If if you hired the right person and you taught them the right way, it it should be fine that way.
• 24:36
  Samir Suleiman: Like there's no reason to micromanage.
• 24:38
  Samir Suleiman: I think that's just um it's just a waste of time for everybody if if all you're gonna do is just micromanage somebody to do the job that you hired them for.
• 24:47
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 24:47
  Nathan Whitaker: Yeah.
• 24:48
  Nathan Whitaker: All right.
• 24:48
  Nathan Whitaker: Well, let me close with this then.
• 24:50
  Nathan Whitaker: Because we talked a little bit about how you've been mentoring or helping others, and I know that you're in a different phase of life as a new father and and not in the daily NFL grind.
• 25:01
  Nathan Whitaker: So, what are you doing now to have an uncommon impact or to help mentor to help not micromanage?
• 25:06
  Nathan Whitaker: What are you doing now to help others?
• 25:09
  Samir Suleiman: Well, I joined a uh fairly new platform called Intro that um they have experts in all kinds of different fields that um you can actually go like on my LinkedIn LinkedIn profile, and there's there's a uh a way to connect with me on Intro.
• 25:24
  Samir Suleiman: And so I'm able to now mentor, you know, whether it's um young professionals or college students, things like that.
• 25:31
  Samir Suleiman: Um, things I've been doing my whole career, but now I guess it's more uh more streamlined um approach to help people that want to break into the pro sports or the NFL in particular.
• 25:43
  Nathan Whitaker: That's perfect.
• 25:44
  Nathan Whitaker: And I will provide those links because I get those questions all the time from friend of a friend or the child of a friend or whatever, hey, what really wants to break into sports.
• 25:53
  Nathan Whitaker: And and I'm always telling them, great, but I haven't been in sports in 25 years.
• 25:58
  Nathan Whitaker: Now I'm writing books, and so I think it's great that you're doing that and doing it in a formalized way, where here's the approach versus you know, it's great when you can network or or just kind of have coffee with somebody, but it's sometimes hard to get to North Carolina and have coffee with you.
• 26:12
  Nathan Whitaker: So um, so I think that's great that you're doing that to have an impact on the next generation.
• 26:16
  Nathan Whitaker: Awesome.
• 26:17
  Samir Suleiman: Yeah, it's it's it's been pretty good so far.
• 26:21
  Nathan Whitaker: Awesome.
• 26:21
  Nathan Whitaker: Well, hey, thanks so much for joining me.
• 26:23
  Nathan Whitaker: Best of luck with um with the new stages of life, and uh and I appreciate you taking the time to join us on Uncommon Impact.
• 26:31
  Samir Suleiman: Thank you, Nathan.
• 26:32
  Samir Suleiman: It's it's been great to catch up with you.