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The Study of the Gifts of the Spirit - Simply Christ Podcast · Simply Christ Podcast

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Welcome back to the Simply Christ podcast hosted by Leon
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Martin, along with Aaron Keaton, Melvin Martin, Andrew Schrock
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and Dan Blatz. Let's get right to it.
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Tonight we're going to talk about the gifts of the Spirit, I
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guess is what I'd say, and just gonna kind of go, we'll use
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chapter 12 of First Corinthians as our text and kind of go
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through there and see how far we come and what happens.
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So interested to learn the reason that I thought we should
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go down this. We, you know, we went through
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kind of a couple different things, baptism and then baptism
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of the Holy Ghost. We talked about communion and
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what it is and, and stuff like that.
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I just thought it'd be kind of interesting to kind of finish
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the circle here and get a good handle on what this is because
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in all reality, it might be something that gets abused or
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misused kind of in a, in a way and, and sometimes in in
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churches. So anyway, before we get started
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and dive into this, Andrew, would you open us up with the
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word of prayer? Sure.
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All right, let's pray. God, we thank you so much for
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your Son Jesus Christ that you sent.
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Bring us back and unite us back to you.
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Bring back everlasting life. You can have everlasting life.
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We feel grateful for that. People are dying all the time
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and but when we have your son, we have everlasting life after
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we die. Thank you for that.
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I pray that we would study the word according to your will and
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that people would hear regardless of what we say, but
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that they would hear what you want them to hear in Jesus name
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and. That and a truck that we serve a
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great God that is able to do just exactly that.
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All right, I'm going to read starting in verse 1 of chapter
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12, First Corinthians and just kind of get a running start into
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this, get a little bit of the context here.
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We just came through or we talked about, you know,
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communion and stuff and how that the body of Christ is to do
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these things. So starts out now concerning
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spiritual gifts, brother. So he kind of makes a point of
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switching topics here very pointedly from what was
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previously said concerning spiritual gifts.
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Brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
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So obviously he wants to inform us about something that that
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they didn't know, right? You know that we were Gentiles
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carried away unto these dumb idols, even as you were led.
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Wherefore I give you to understand that no man speaking
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by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, and that no man
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can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost.
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Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit, and
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there are differences of administrations, but the same
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Lord, and there are diversities of operations, but it is the
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same God which worketh All in all.
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But the manifestation of the Spirit is gift.
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Every man to profit with all four to one is given by the
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Spirit, the Word of Wisdom. And I'm going to stop right
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there. I would like to notice before we
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get into this that it seems as if the purpose by and large as
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an overriding rule, because that's what he said here, is to
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profit every man with all and I like so.
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So what tells is that as we go through that it is not something
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for self gratification or something that makes you
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superior to someone else. It is to benefit those around us
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really is what it what it actually the purpose of these
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is, but I just would like to talk about kind of what it looks
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like when somebody practices these gifts and a gift is free
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anyway. I'm I'm going on here, but it's
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it's an interesting subject. I Andrew about.
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What are your thoughts starting kind of with the Word of Wisdom,
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but in general too? Yeah, he started out where a lot
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of the people that focus a lot on the gifts already don't like,
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and that is to practice wisdom and to discern him.
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That's people get really defensive that are that are
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obsessed with the gifts, I think and unhealthily where they don't
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want you to test the Spirit like he just told us to test him
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right there. If you can't say that Jesus
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Christ is Lord, then it's not from the Spirit of God, but our
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Holy Ghost. So one thing I would like to say
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before I start much is every good thing that God gave us,
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like the hatchet border, like many different things, the way
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God ordained it, the purpose, the thing that we're created for
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to to deliver a certain purpose to do that that is created for a
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certain purpose. If we change it, it's usually
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very destructive. Like if you change this idea of
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man and wife to man and man, it's super destructive.
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It's not productive at all. Nobody profits.
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It's actually a negative get sick the same way I look at it
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with gifts. If you abuse it, it does the
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opposite from what it was supposed to do.
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What it's supposed to do is that you people that don't believe,
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when they see the signs and wonders and the miracles, it
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persuades them, it gets their attention.
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In the beginning when Christ came and when he was coming,
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there were lots of signs and wonders and even the even the
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Pharisees were like man, nobody does to these except God be with
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them. Even the ones that wanted to
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kill Christ, they had, they didn't know what to do with this
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'cause it was drawing all the people to this Messiah because
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of the signs and wonders and the gifts.
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And so that's the purpose of the gifts is to exalt God, to make
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him known who he is and that it profits the people like you were
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saying that hear it and see it and it draws people to Christ.
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The body of Christ grows when the Holy Ghost is in people and
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there's gifts being practiced. Now I don't know how much time I
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want me to spend on this, but there's the the thing that is
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destructive that I see that does the opposite from building your
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faith is when you try to quench like to to try to practice a
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gift that you don't have and you prophecy and you say words what
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God said and what he's going to do.
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And you tell someone they're not sick when they're sick.
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You tell someone they're going to, they're going to be healed
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and they're not going to die, but then two weeks later they
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die. When you do all those things
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that does the opposite of building faith in someone.
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It it's destructive. So don't say those things if you
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don't know that. That's if you can't back it up.
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God didn't ask lathers to come forward and didn't come forth
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and everybody was like, he's a joke.
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You know, it didn't happen, but it happens all the time.
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Now with the miracle workers. They say the things and they
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believe it and they stand on, they promise it, but it's it's
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doing, it's a negative. It destroys the faith when it's
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meant to build the faith. So that's just what I'd like to
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be able to have a little more discernment.
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I'm not against gifts, but gifts are designed to build faith, not
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destroy faith. And a lot of the gifts that are
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being practiced today are dangerous.
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Like he says in in Thessalonians that it's not of God, it's
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actually from the devil and it's destroying faith.
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Guys, I'll maybe I'll share a little more later, but that's
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kind of my. Yeah, I like you.
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Yeah, That's, that's really good, Aaron.
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I know that's not where you went to, but I think it relates
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because of something that Andrew said in Romans 12/3.
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He says, For I say through the grace given unto me to every man
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that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he
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ought to think, but I think soberly according as God has
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dealt to every man the measure of faith.
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And he goes on to say we're many members and all have different
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gifts. So I think it's true.
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I think, I think that people try to step outside and I'm hesitant
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to say this because he does say seek the best gift, right?
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There's nothing wrong with pursuing another gift.
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But people try to step out of their lane, as Andrew just said,
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and do things that are not profitable to anybody.
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And they just make, you know, they kind of give reason to
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blasphemy God. But but I, but I think that
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that's, I guess I would say two things about that being the
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first one. And the second thing is, is that
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if you have a gift and you know what it is and you use it from
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time to time, you shouldn't puff yourself up as though you didn't
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receive that right? I mean, he says that in another
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place. You know, why are you acting
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like you didn't receive it? You know, like if you, if you
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have received something and you act like it was of your own
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will, I think that may be in Corinthians somewhere.
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But anyway, so I guess I was just saying that if you do have
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a gift, you should honor God and glorify him for the thing that
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you do have and not think more highly of yourself than you all
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think. And just to kind of sum up those
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first few verses of First Corinthians 12, I do think that
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he's pointing out that if one person has a gift in which they
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whatever, I mean, you, you look at the list, if, if this person
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has a, a word of wisdom and it's good, and then the next person
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actually does do some kind of healing or whatever he's saying
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that's not coming from different sources, right?
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It's all the same source. It's same God that's working All
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in all. And I think that's very
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important. You know, it's like he's going
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to go on to say in this chapter that we, we say, oh man, if
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somebody would do something miraculous, then we're like, oh,
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God's with that person. But what if all they do is just
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give a little money to somebody or encourage somebody?
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Or have a little word of. Wisdom to somebody personally,
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we don't recognize that like it was the same source as the man
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that did this great outstanding thing.
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But but but the but just and the last thing I'll say is
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specifically on that for one for to 1 is given by the Spirit, the
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word of wisdom. Like I have experienced that,
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like I have absolutely saw or been able to apply knowledge to
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something that I didn't think about ahead of time.
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Like I have seen that work like I've actually felt that actually
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work. And this is not a across the
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board problem, but the churches I was raised in would have some
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of them we talked about this last week.
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Some of them would have kind of dismissed the work of the Holy
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Spirit in a person. They would, they would even kind
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of lean towards the only work of the Holy Spirit was to, was to
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put the Bible together. And so I know that's not right
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because I have, I have seen that work right.
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I have, I have felt that in, in real time actually get a word
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of, of wisdom that I did not have.
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And I know that was the Spirit working.
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And so like I said, I, I just, I think it's important to give
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credit to God and to the Spirit for doing those things and at
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the same time not to feel like you're something special because
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God worked something through you, right?
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But. No, that's really good.
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I appreciate that because I too have maybe had a word of wisdom
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on a subject or something through somebody.
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But I've also been the recipient, no?
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Word of Wisdom. Many times where somebody has
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spoken into my life that they were not aware of, but I saw
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that it took it as as a word of wisdom to do or not do
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something. And, and for that, I'm grateful
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towards the person for obeying and speaking those words, but
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also to God for putting it in him, 'cause this guy's a tandem
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deal there. I mean, it's, we can't do it
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ourselves, but neither can God if there's not a mouth to speak,
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as you know. Yeah, we appreciate it.
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Delvin, go ahead. Yeah, So one of the things I'm
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just going to start out by saying this, one of the things
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that comes to my mind about this topic is a lot of churches seem
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like, you know, some churches they focus on the gifts of, of
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the Spirit, Like that's all they focus on.
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Like it's basically the the, their main thing that they
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practice and talk about. And then there's other churches
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that basically dismiss the working of the spirit at all
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like the gifts of the Spirit. And obviously this according to
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the scripture, it is very important in the body because it
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right after these verses, it goes right into the body talking
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about the body in on what that looks like.
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And so obviously this is part of the working of the body of
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Christ. And another thing that I want to
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point out is that it is not at all the focus is not at all on
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the gifts necessarily or the person that is the the gifts are
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being manifested through. The focus is, if you look there,
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it says there are there diversities of gifts, but the
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same Spirit, there's difference of administrations, but the same
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Lord. There are diversity is the
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operations, but the same God. So the focus needs to be on God
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and you know, for, for his glory, so to speak, not our
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glory, not not human glory, not the person that is actually
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maybe exercising the gift. And that's what happens so many
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times I see the focus becomes on the person and you know how
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spiritual they seem to be because of this get this
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spiritual gift. But as far as the, the, the word
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of wisdom, you know, it's kind of interesting how many times
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the focus is on, you know, the speaking in tongues or or
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something like that, where the spirit of wisdom is something
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that is not. How would you say it's not as
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showy or what? That's not really the right
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word, but for lack of words, that's you know, because the and
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I see this happening. It happens has happened many
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times to me like that. I've been the recipient of this
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words of wisdom and also where I've gotten words of wisdom and
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it's very up building and edifying to the body of Christ
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when that happens. And that's the point that that's
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what the what this is for. It is in Ephesians, it says it
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is for it also talks about the gifts and it says for the
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perfecting of the Saints and for the working of the ministry and
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for the edifying of the body of Christ.
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And so that's what the gift should be about.
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And and words of wisdom is great and it's it's a lot of edifying
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can come out of that, but it's not such a big go that speaking
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in tongues and healing some of these other things are.
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Yeah, that's that's right. Any other anything else on the
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word of wisdom? I think like the the word of
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knowledge by the same spirit, a little bit of the same idea
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there actually, except knowledge is knowing something and wisdom
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basically is you know how to apply that knowledge really is
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kind of the the difference there.
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But anything additional on the, on the, the word of knowledge,
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I, I don't, I can't really say that, that I've ever, you know,
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done this or, or necessarily been the recipient, though I
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know some people that have, but I myself don't really have any
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experience in this that I, that I'm aware of.
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Andrew. The only experiences I have is
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when I look back, I was like, oh, that was God.
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And I can't really take credit for it.
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It's kind of more of a hindsight still where he's like, man, God
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did that and that and that and that and I didn't know.
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I don't know how many times it is that way with the gear, but I
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know that God is not and he's not going to normally he doesn't
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show himself in a way with people that are going to exalt
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themselves. And I want more wisdom.
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I, I desire the gifts, but I completely stopped dancing
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around jumping in front of God and going look, I'm doing 5
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jumping tracks and I'm not eating food and I'm doing all
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this. I'm ready for the gift.
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Like look at me. Oh like I want give me a
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present, give me something. Look at me jump, you know, I I'm
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realizing that God knows who I am and he knows what kind of
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gifts he can use that edifies the people around me and it's
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his wisdom. I feel like that's wisdom in
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understanding and submitting to the one that does the calling.
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God calls and gives gifts as he will like it says in Hebrews
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chapter 2 according to his will. So why would I be trying to
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change his will about the gifts he wants to give me?
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If I have a gift of wisdom and another man has a different gift
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that is like you guys were saying, more showy, that's fine,
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but it would be silly. Later here he will talk about
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how that all the members of his body are to help the body
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function in a good way. So wouldn't it be a little
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ridiculous if the mouth would finally say, you know what, I've
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been speaking too much. I'm going to let my thumb have a
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shot at it. You know that Tom would be just
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up there and like we'd all leave, right?
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That thumb's not made to speak. Well, that's ridiculous.
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So that's what it looks like when we try to practice things
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and do things in the ministry in the body of Christ.
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That is not our gift, but we want the gift so bad that we try
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to act like we have it and it's destructive, it's edifying.
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It's not, it's not doing anything.
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So that's the wisdom that I want.
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I want the wisdom. That act that builds the church.
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And I think another thing that we miss a lot is in the United
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States of America, we have a lot of information right in front of
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us. We don't technically need a sign
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in order to find information about who God is so that we can
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be convinced of it. We have to all the information.
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So God's smart enough to know that in a situation like this,
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if you give someone power, people believe in the person
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with the power. That's why someone that heals
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somebody or had a couple miracles, they write a book and
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everybody wants to read the book.
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The Bible is no longer good enough.
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Now we have to read this book of this guy that did these great
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things. That's not what the gifts were
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intended for. Gifts were intended to bring us
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to Jesus Christ so that we follow him and lead him and he
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guides us. We're his sheep.
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He he hears our voice and we hear his voice and he guides us
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through his spirit. Not he doesn't give us gifts so
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that people now want to read about us gift gifts, so we read
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about him. That's that is your whatever
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said that you know, if you think about so God is here.
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He's saying I have these gifts and that's what he calls them.
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And when I want to give a gift to one of my sons, for instance,
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you know, they desire a gift from me.
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They just naturally do they. They're always excited to
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receive a gift, but they're not dancing around and saying, hey,
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hey, I want this one. I.
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Yeah. They're just ready to receive a
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gift from me. Whatever.
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They're not trying to jump through some kind of gymnastics
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to make me give them a gift. I mean, yeah, no ask sometimes
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maybe or whatever, but so, yeah, I mean, that's the kind of the
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same way. It's not that doesn't
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necessarily go to the one you love best or whatever.
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It's it's up to the giver who gets these gifts.
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And I want to talk about that. Or maybe you could incorporate
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that a little bit going forward here too, Aaron.
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It seems almost like this is an individual thing, like, like one
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person doesn't just always have the gift of, of what is the
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first one we did there. The spirit is like he might have
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the word of wisdom one day, but he might he might have the gift
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of healing tomorrow. Or is is it?
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Is it always one person? But anyway, go ahead on the on
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the second one, the knowledge, the word of knowledge.
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Yeah, I I mean. The way I.
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At least think of it is the the knowledge would be, and I'm not
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saying you have to be a Bible teacher to to do this.
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I'm just saying I have experienced it while teaching
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the Bible. Like I feel like the knowledge
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is a often comes for me anyway in a in a moment that I have
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maybe even studied something beforehand and really didn't
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know and then sometimes see it the clearest as I am speaking it
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right. So, and, and I would say wisdom
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differs in that it may be the way to apply that knowledge
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personally. It may be advice to someone else
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and how to do this or do that or what choice to make or how to
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handle this thing or that thing. Or that's the way I feel about
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it anyway. That knowledge would be just
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maybe understanding and, and it wouldn't necessarily have to be
23:24
about a particular verse. It could be about understanding
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God give you a word of knowledge as to why someone acted in such
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a way or why someone is motivated to do this or to do
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that. But I think that I do, I do
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think there's a little bit of difference, obviously, because
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there's two different words, but there is, you know, obviously a
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little difference. And I guess to address your
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question, I would tend to lean that way, yes.
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Like I would tend to lean that way, but I'll be honest, that's
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one of the, I don't, I don't know that I have experienced a
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lot of other gifts personally. You know what I mean?
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Like, so I'm not saying that it's not that that what you said
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is not true. I think you're right.
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I think people can. It's not like I know we've all
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gave this example, but the apostles have the gift of
24:15
healing. Paul has it in such a way that
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he can send the handkerchief, but yet he leaves, whatever his
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name was sick at a certain place and God doesn't heal him when he
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asks. So we, we know that it's not
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this blanket gift that you just like you can just turn it loose
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whenever you want to on whoever you want to every situation.
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Like we, we understand that that side of it.
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But I do think that you're, I think you're probably right.
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I just don't well, I guess I guess if you go back and kind of
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count those things and I feel like you should you go back and
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count those things in Romans chapter 12, he says in verse 6
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having then gifts calls it gifts differing according to the grace
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that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophecy
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according to the proportion of faith ministry.
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Let us wait our ministry. He that teaches on teaching, he
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that exhorteth on exhortation, he that giveth like it caused
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the ability to give a gift. He that giveth let him do it
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with simplicity. He that ruleth with diligence,
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he that showeth mercy. Like how many times you ever
25:24
heard mercy showing mercy as a gift is?
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So I guess if I count it like that, then yeah, I would say
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without a doubt we express a different gift, you know, at
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different times, but. You know, dividing severally as
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God will kind of in a way you would say, yeah, no, no.
25:45
Yeah. So I, I've had, you know,
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thinking back, I've had experiences where about the
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gifts of knowledge, the gifts of knowledge where I've had it
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maybe not so much that I maybe I did that I didn't really realize
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it, but to other people, but I have received the gifts of
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knowledge from people, even even about myself.
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Like, you know, where I realized that someone is speaking,
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whether it's teaching or, or even speaking to me personally,
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that I see something that even about myself that I didn't
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realize before, right? I mean, it's like it's like in A
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and epiphany that I had, you know, that I didn't realize.
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And I think that is the spirit of knowledge.
26:39
And and like you said, there's a difference because the knowledge
26:42
is just coming to know about something.
26:48
And then the wisdom would be, you know, knowing what to do or
26:53
giving instruction to someone on what to do or someone giving you
26:57
instruction or, you know, from God.
27:00
And so, yeah, that's it's so it's such a blessing when it's
27:07
done properly. I think this this gifts of the
27:12
Spirit because it's such AI don't know.
27:15
It's just it's such misused, it seems like.
27:19
And I like what it says in Ephesians in the end of
27:23
Ephesians 4 there where it talks about the gift.
27:27
I know this is kind of the gifts of the ministry, but it applies
27:31
to me, applies to somewhat to both in my opinion.
27:35
But he says in verse 13, Ephesians 4, after he talks
27:40
about the gifts in spirit, it says till we all come in the
27:44
unity of faith and all the knowledge of the Son of God.
27:48
So it should, like you were saying, Andrew, the gift should
27:52
direct us to faith and to knowledge of Jesus and, and onto
27:57
a perfect man that it it should help perfect us and the measure
28:03
and the stature of the fullness of Christ.
28:06
And then it says that we henceforth be no more children
28:09
tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of
28:12
doctrine and by the sleight of men and the cunning craftiness
28:16
whereby they lie in wait to deceit.
28:18
And so it's like opposite of deception.
28:21
And unfortunately, most times it seems like sometimes it seems
28:26
when the gifts of spirits are, you know, being supposedly
28:30
manifested and whatever, it's actually deceiving where others
28:35
right. And and like you were saying,
28:37
Andrew, pulling them away from the faith, it's supposed to do
28:40
right opposite. It's supposed to ground us and
28:44
it's supposed to propel us towards faith and Christ.
28:50
Yeah, today the signs and wonders is doing more tossing to
28:53
and fro than any ever right. Like it's I, I didn't realize, I
28:59
guess I didn't catch the word of knowledge thing, but I'll just
29:02
tell you what that's actually the gift that I desire and pray
29:07
for all the time is the word of have a word of knowledge.
29:13
It really bothers me to find out from testimonies of people or
29:18
they wanted to know if they could just had someone to talk
29:22
to them. If they just knew of someone
29:25
they were, they were at the bottom of the barrel in the pit,
29:29
didn't know where to turn to, didn't know who to trust and
29:33
they made a bad choice. I want word of knowledge to know
29:38
where that guy's at at what time and show up and say, Hey, you
29:43
want to talk. You know, I should think it'd be
29:47
so beneficial profiting for the ministry to be able to find
29:51
these people that are wits end maybe that are on the bridge
29:55
ready to chomp or whatever. I want work.
29:59
I want a word from God to know, Hey, that's Washington trooper
30:04
Amish guys about the end his life or he's he's completely
30:08
confused. He's he's he's right.
30:10
He's ready to hear. I want that word.
30:12
I want, that's what I desire, but it it hasn't happened.
30:18
But I'm not stressed out over it.
30:21
I just really desire it now. I'm what I hate about the
30:29
pushing of gifts, like where they guilt trip you for not
30:32
having it and you have to do what they did in order to get
30:35
it. That's no longer a gift.
30:37
I'm not there. I'm not in bondage over this
30:41
like I used to be trying to get something, trying to get God to
30:45
do something. I just desire really bad to have
30:49
that, but I don't. I also know that that God works
30:57
what he he knows he's, it's at his discretion.
31:00
Like you were saying, Leon. Yeah, yeah.
31:03
We're going to rewrite it. But even though I didn't even
31:04
think about where that was, it's right coming up in the texture
31:07
dividing severally as he will, you know, and and if we keep
31:11
that, first of all, yeah, it's to benefit the body of Christ.
31:15
You know, it's to benefit those. So we keep that in mind.
31:18
And then and then also keep in mind that, you know, though, it
31:21
is up to God to whether whether or when that this the thing
31:25
needs to be established or done. You know, if he could give you
31:29
that gift and you go run around wasting it on a bunch of stuff
31:32
that does not actually benefit. And we don't want that either,
31:35
though, you know, you really want the gift, that word or
31:39
whatever it is when God needs it or another word, you know, be
31:44
prepared saying the word, know the word.
31:46
He can't, you know, can you speak the word?
31:49
You know, if you're if you're never in God's will, if you're
31:51
never there, you know, So, yeah, that's, that's really good.
31:57
I appreciate what you said there, Melvin and Andrew, on
31:59
that. OK.
32:02
We'll move on here and I don't know how we want to spend on
32:05
these individual ones. I I think it's interesting, but
32:09
what's specially died here, another faith.
32:11
So faith is a gift that that's that's different, probably a
32:18
little bit different. Well, I guess, yeah, I don't
32:20
know. It'd be interesting to hear what
32:21
you have to say about that. And then we're just I'll just
32:23
wrap the rest of verse 9 to another, the gift of healing by
32:27
the same spirit again and make sure that we realize that these
32:29
two, you know, have the same Arthur.
32:32
And I'll let you go, Aaron, so that I would pick it on Edward
32:34
to go first on this Aaron, if you want to on verse 9, if you
32:38
have any, anything on that specific thing.
32:41
I, I, I've not necessarily had a conversation with a Calvinist to
32:45
see if they would say this, but I would imagine that this might
32:47
be one of the verses that the, that the Calvinists would say,
32:51
you know, you, God gives faith. I, I don't know if they would
32:53
use this verse or not, but but I think they'd be misusing it if
32:57
they did that because this is not this is already a Christian,
33:02
right? I mean, I feel like you're we're
33:03
talking about people that are already Christians and we are
33:07
because, and I have known one or two people like this that seem
33:12
to just have great faith, right? I mean, just just were people
33:16
that had a a great portion of faith in which they, I'll say it
33:23
this way. It's like the people that if you
33:26
if you can, if you got something going on, it's the person you
33:28
want to go to and to have them pray for you because you feel
33:31
like they can pray in faith for that thing.
33:34
Because they know that they're not going to ask in a double
33:38
minded manner or they're going to not going to ask in a, you
33:41
know, in a thinking that God can't do something manner.
33:45
And I think that that's just, well, like it proves that faith
33:49
is a noun in which it can be great.
33:52
It can a person can have weak faith.
33:54
This person can have more faith than the next person.
33:58
This person can get a portion of faith added to them in a
34:02
moment's time. Right?
34:03
Like, you know, it's, it's like you could, you could even use
34:09
this in the sense I think that people, people are being tempted
34:17
or tried to whether or not they will deny God or stand up for
34:22
God or whatever. And he can give them the
34:24
confidence, the faith that they need in that moment.
34:28
So I do think that this wouldn't necessarily be like, as you said
34:31
earlier, I don't think it's necessarily, I think it can be
34:35
both. I think it could be a person
34:37
that you just say that person has great faith.
34:39
Like if I'm going to ask somebody to pray for me or for a
34:42
thing, that's who I'm going to because they have great faith
34:44
and God has just blessed them with a great portion of faith.
34:48
Or I think it, as I just said, can be applied in a, in a, in an
34:53
instant in the sense that just God adds faith to you when you
34:57
need it, you know, but that's, that's my thought on it.
35:01
But I mean, I won't even say nothing about the healing
35:06
because I just think it's self-explanatory that there's
35:08
people that can heal. I agree, Melvin.
35:16
Yeah. So when I when I figured this
35:18
verse, it seems to me like, and it does happen that there is
35:23
people in the body that start. To.
35:29
Lose their faith or are weak, become weak in the faith maybe
35:33
right like so 'cause it's saying to another faith by the same
35:37
spirit like you, like you pointed out, Aaron, it's not
35:41
it's not a save a faith saving faith, right?
35:45
Let not it's not a saving faith. This is for when someone is
35:49
struggling with their faith, whether it is the, you know,
35:54
whether they're going to, I don't know what maybe be healed
35:59
or, or, or maybe they're just struggling in their life that
36:04
they're not sure if God is, is listening to them when they're
36:08
praying or whatever it is, right.
36:10
And, and when that person is talking to another individual
36:16
about that in the body that God gives you the gift at that
36:20
moment to, to speak in great faith or, you know, pray for
36:25
that person in great faith or whatever.
36:27
And so that's kind of the way I see this working.
36:31
Because if you think about it, you know, these gifts of the
36:34
spirit is it's a gift. So God is giving it to this
36:40
person for the body and for his glory and for the fathering of
36:44
the Kingdom. And so it's a gift.
36:47
And so there's other gifts like healing.
36:50
Well, someone needs to be sick to be healed, right?
36:55
I mean, that's just the fact, right?
36:56
And so there needs to be something wrong.
36:58
So it that's the way I kind of see it as in the faith side of
37:02
things is that it's someone that is, you know, maybe kind of sick
37:06
in their faith that for lack of better words, or just weak in
37:09
their faith. And God gives you the spirit of
37:13
faith in that moment. So.
37:16
Yeah, good stuff, Andrew. Yeah, I agree with all those
37:22
ideas. I think it also could be like
37:24
Abraham. I think he had the gift of
37:26
faith, but it had to be exercised.
37:29
He had to kind of learn a little bit the heart way and it brought
37:32
it out. At the end of the day, man, he
37:34
had faith and he believed God. There are some people that I've
37:39
met that have the gift of faith. They never worry about anything.
37:44
It doesn't matter if everything's falling down.
37:46
They're not stressed. They trust God, they have faith.
37:51
That's the faith. That's they have faith that I
37:53
don't like. No, it's just, I'd be, I'd be up
37:56
until midnight trying to figure something out.
37:58
And they're just like, yeah, God will provide, you know, yeah,
38:01
that's just pure, innocent, sweet faith.
38:06
That's about all I want to say on that.
38:08
But another thing that I was thinking is when you go through
38:11
this list, you will see that pretty much every Christian has
38:15
gifts, spiritual gifts. And so don't, don't be sitting
38:22
around not doing ministry or not doing things because you're
38:26
waiting for God to give you some shiny visual gift.
38:32
If you have a gift of mercy, practice it that you might gain
38:37
some that you might bring more into the fold.
38:40
If you have the gift of hospitality, There's a lot of
38:43
people that are, are not good at speaking, but they have the gift
38:45
of hospitality. They're good at one-on-one.
38:47
They're good at inviting people over and having a great positive
38:50
time where they see the love of Christ.
38:53
Those are all gifts of the Spirit that helps the body of
38:56
Christ. So I think every believer has
38:59
great purposes. He just believes in these gifts
39:02
and starts exercising in the gifts that you already have.
39:05
Maybe it's construction, maybe you're good at construction,
39:08
maybe you're good at business or whatever.
39:10
Those are all spiritual gifts that God has given you that you
39:13
can exercise. You can, you're good at it.
39:17
You, you, you succeed and people benefit from your gift.
39:20
So there's great purpose in that.
39:22
So don't wait. Look at the gifts that you have,
39:26
examine yourself, use wisdom and go for it.
39:29
Man. We can change the world too many
39:32
times the way gifts are presented and that they're
39:34
taught to us is we have to read a book and we have to figure out
39:38
how to get God to do this. And if we line up with the right
39:41
angle and the right faith and the right belief, God can
39:44
release the gifts. We're busy trying to get a gift
39:47
while people are dying and going to hell.
39:49
Let's go to work. We got gifts.
39:52
Let's exercise them and go. I think that might have been a
39:56
word of wisdom right there, Andrew.
40:02
So true, though, you know? Yeah.
40:05
Fall over your right bicycle that stops you.
40:07
You're not going to be able to stay out to another the working
40:10
of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning
40:13
of spirits. To another divers kinds of
40:16
tongues to another the interpretation of tongues.
40:21
All these worketh that one and the self saved spirit dividing
40:25
through every man. Several will now pick on you,
40:28
Melvin a little bit on I mean you could pick up whatever any
40:33
or all of those that you want to kind of give me your opinion on
40:36
that. I oh for myself, I would
40:39
probably focus on that that diverse kind of tongues because
40:43
that's kind of the big one that I was gets all the show at this
40:47
in this whole birds in a lot of ways.
40:50
And you know, but I've never I've never had had use of
40:54
speaking a different language and well, yeah, I would have it
40:58
Guatemala. It should have been handy.
40:59
We sure would have been handy to not be able to speak their
41:02
language. But I was not gifted with that
41:05
at the time. So Melville your thoughts on
41:07
purse. I don't want them.
41:10
Yeah, I mean, obviously the work in miracles is pretty
41:12
self-explanatory. One thing I would like to point
41:16
out before I get into diverse kinds of cons is, is the
41:19
prophecy to another prophecy. I think I should have looked up
41:25
that word, but I'm pretty sure that means speaking like
41:28
teaching the truth, teaching Bible, not so much, you know,
41:33
just maybe prophesying of something that is going to
41:37
happen down the road now. So I guess the other thing is
41:44
that, yeah, the, the diverse kinds of tongue.
41:48
That's really kind of interesting because, you know,
41:53
most signs speaking in tongues is brought forth as a, you know,
41:58
this heavenly language that nobody seems to know what is
42:02
what it is, You know what it's saying.
42:03
Like it's just a blabbering and obviously it, it says diverse
42:08
kinds of tongues into another interpretation of tongues.
42:12
So it's a different, a different language of some sort.
42:17
It, it should be a language of some sort because if you can't
42:22
interpret what you're speaking, like even like speaking in the
42:29
that verse where it says about speaking in the tongues of
42:32
angels, I don't see the angels speaking in a way that they
42:38
can't understand or that they don't understand each other, you
42:42
know. So there's got to be some sort
42:45
of a language or interpretation of that language.
42:49
Even if it is a, an angels of language, it needs to be some
42:53
sort of the language or an interpretation of the of the
42:57
language, because if it's just a blabber, you can't interpret
43:01
that, right. And so I like where Paul says
43:06
later on in Corinthians, he says that if you it's better to speak
43:12
one or few words that people can understand than 10,000 words
43:17
that no one can understand. And that's why he says there
43:21
that there needs to be interpreter if someone is
43:23
speaking in tongues so that, you know, they can understand what
43:27
that person is saying. And so that's where a lot of
43:30
people miss it. It seems like they like to speak
43:33
in tongues, but where's the interpreter?
43:36
You know, there there's also a gift of interpretation,
43:39
obviously. So someone needs to be
43:41
interpreting it. So don't speak in tongues unless
43:43
someone is there to interpret it.
43:47
And I it's also interesting about the discerning of spirits
43:49
because that's pretty important too, right?
43:51
I mean, we talk a lot about the Holy Spirit, and rightly so, but
43:58
there is other spirits. The Bible is very clear about
44:02
that. And so I think the discerning
44:05
spirits is a very important gift as well, because we can pretty
44:11
easily get deceived in that way. Richard, Andrew.
44:19
Yeah, again, what we're I've been kind of saying all night is
44:26
if the tongues were used properly, the way they're
44:28
designed, you're out witnessing and somebody hears you in their
44:33
own language and they get to know Jesus Christ and him
44:36
crucify and they start seeking him.
44:40
They become converted. They believe they hurt the
44:42
gospel and they believe to do it with a bunch of same language
44:47
speaking people in the congregation with Saints
44:51
blabbering. I don't think somebody's going
44:54
to go, oh, I heard someone blabber.
44:55
I'm convinced of Jesus Christ. I just don't think that's what
44:59
it does. I think it gets people.
45:01
I wish I could do that. You know, that's what it does.
45:05
I wish I could do that. I wish I would have.
45:08
Look, man, he was just the blabbering way.
45:10
Oh, it was so annoying. He was so powerful.
45:12
I wish I could do that. That's what it does when you do
45:15
it in church and it gets your faith and focus in tomics.
45:22
Elaborate. I mean, I was so desperate at
45:26
one point I had a, a woman hat me open my mouth and start
45:31
making noises to try to get it going until I realized I'm being
45:34
a total idiot. God damn.
45:38
No, I, I apologize to God afterwards.
45:41
I mean, it felt blasphemous. Like it's a gift and I'm going
45:44
to try to try to provoke God into like just start making some
45:49
noises and then he'll just kind of fill in talk about opening
45:52
yourself up to spirits that are not of God.
45:55
Like, Oh my goodness, I felt so bad afterwards.
45:59
So again, my focus is that I want people to come to Christ
46:03
when they hear the word of God preached in their own tongue and
46:07
they were moved because there's like, man, he's all speaking our
46:11
own language. I heard the gospel.
46:14
I know this is a miracle. I'm I, you know, I believe and
46:20
they get baptized. So, and I have a quick line on
46:25
the discernment of spirits. The greatest discernment that I
46:28
like to use is that kind of tells you whether it's of God or
46:31
not. It's when they don't want you to
46:33
discern it. Oh yeah.
46:38
Well, sure, good. Aired, yeah, I, I guess I'll
46:47
touch on a couple of them. The as I think Melvin already
46:53
said that obviously miracles could be any number of things
46:56
stopping a bad weather or wouldn't have to be healing,
47:01
right. He's already mentioned healing
47:02
so it could be any number. Of of great.
47:04
Things there, but and then the prophecy, I feel like because
47:10
I've looked it up several times as well, and I think I think it
47:16
a lot of times is something, you know, some kind of
47:20
prognostication, like it is something.
47:23
But I also think that it doesn't have to be like it doesn't, you
47:28
know, it certainly doesn't have to be.
47:29
And in fact, we could. I don't know what you all think
47:33
about this, but it's it's kind of true that if we are going out
47:38
prophesying that the Lord is going to return.
47:42
That is it's both right. Like I'm really just preaching
47:45
the word, but I'm telling I'm foretelling something that's
47:48
going to happen, right? So I see that kind of mixed in
47:52
with that myself, but but also that discerning of spirits.
47:57
I think that they're and I know all of us maybe know somebody
48:02
like this. Like there are people in the
48:05
Bible refers to it as toss to and fro, whatever win the
48:08
doctrine. I think that those people can't
48:09
discern spirits, right? In other words, somebody that
48:12
goes along and everything sounds good to them, or that if it's in
48:18
the name of God, they, they think it must be true or honest
48:23
or right or whatever. And I think that that's, we
48:26
should all desire that discernment of spirits, because
48:29
there's all kinds of spirits out there that are bringing great
48:34
destruction on the word of God. And so I think that's something
48:39
we should all really covet there because we should desire to be
48:42
able to discern the spirit by which a thing is being
48:45
motivated, you know, but then I, I think that this is my opinion,
48:53
but I think that on the, on the tongues part, I think it's
48:56
almost undeniable that there is, there is, if I, when I read
49:01
these verses and just try to pretend I've never read them
49:04
before this one and the Romans, I feel like there must be a, an
49:13
angelic language in which someone could speak it as long
49:20
as there was someone there to interpret what they were saying,
49:22
right? I mean, I almost feel like that
49:23
has to be a possibility that there, that it doesn't, that
49:26
it's not just a, a native language to this earth, you
49:31
know, like Spanish or whatever. I mean, all the however many
49:36
languages there is, I feel like there has to be an allowance for
49:39
that because of just the way it words that, you know, if I speak
49:42
with the tongues of angels. So I do think that that must be
49:44
a thing. But again, Paul takes care of
49:48
that and says, if you can't tell me what you're saying, shut up,
49:52
right. So, but in this particular case,
49:55
because he follows it with interpretation things, I do
49:59
think there could be a miracle either way.
50:00
I think there could be a person that could go into, not
50:06
necessarily in a foreign country, but interact with a
50:09
person that has a different language and be able to, as
50:13
Andrew said, speak so that they can hear them in their own
50:16
language, right? Make the gospel clear when they
50:18
didn't know how to speak that language.
50:20
But I also think the other side could be true.
50:22
I think a person could be able to understand someone else that
50:30
is maybe asking for help or asking for whatever.
50:35
I think that that would be to me, I think it would fall under
50:39
the interpretation of tongues. I think there's people that
50:41
could understand the language they've never studied before,
50:44
that they've never, you know, dug into.
50:46
I think God could give that gift in which they could hear what
50:49
was being said, though they didn't know the language, right?
50:53
Like both sides of that, both sides of that coin.
50:56
But but anyway verse 11 says but all these worketh that one and
51:01
the self same spirit dividing, dividing the everyman severally
51:05
as he. Will.
51:07
And I think you all already kind of said this, but I do think
51:09
that's what he's saying is God can, God could add a need, lay
51:16
that gift on whoever he will, right?
51:19
You could have never had the gift of interpretation tongues
51:22
or never healed anybody and at the need as God wills, he could
51:28
give you that gift right just on the spot, right.
51:31
I mean, you've never had that gift before, but God could as he
51:34
will, you know, give you that for his purpose to be fulfilled
51:38
and accomplished in in using you to to do such a thing.
51:42
But. Yep.
51:45
Yeah, I know. That's go ahead.
51:47
So I also don't want to take away the fact that there are
51:52
those gifts, but I'm not taking away I'm I was speaking on the
51:56
negative part of the gifts. I also agree that those gifts
51:59
are there, but a danger of not knowing what you're saying and
52:06
nobody else knows what you're saying is one time there's the
52:10
story of someone that spoke a bunch of different languages and
52:14
this guy goes up there and starts blabbering away in
52:18
tongues. Nobody knew what they were
52:19
saying except this guy knew that language and that person thought
52:23
he was magnifying the name of God, but he was actually
52:25
blaspheming his name in church. And that guy understood it.
52:31
And it's like, wait. Stop.
52:32
But the person thought, so that's just a human experience
52:38
that someone had that you can, someone should know what you're
52:41
saying, except for let's say you're in the closet not knowing
52:46
what the left and the right hand are doing.
52:48
You're not making, you're not doing in public in front of
52:50
people. That's a big thing and you're
52:53
making groanings. I think there's a gift of the
52:55
Spirit in tongues where you're praying to God.
52:59
You're you're out of words and the Spirit communicates.
53:03
That's also a gift. And I'm not taking that away
53:06
either. But I just really think someone
53:09
needs to know what you're saying in public in front of church.
53:14
And I agree with that. I'll let you go, Melvin, but I
53:17
agree with that. But we're going to it could be
53:19
miraculous, I guess. But you know, regarding the
53:21
tongues of angels, I view that as a hypothetical statement.
53:26
First of all, like, you know, even if I could walk on the
53:30
moon, it would still be in vain if it were like, you know what,
53:34
like he's using an impossible situation who describe how great
53:39
it is that that you do things in love.
53:41
I think charity is what he's talking about there.
53:43
Whatever. So that's kind of how I view
53:45
that The other one. And the reason why you were just
53:47
saying is there has to be someone to interpret and we're
53:49
going to be hard pressed to come up with the interpreter for that
53:52
delegated language. We don't have any angels to
53:55
interpret for us now. It could be miraculous
53:58
interpretation. So again, maybe that doesn't
54:00
hold any water. I'm not sure.
54:02
But I just the the only thing that I would say regarding this
54:05
this is me personally is be really.
54:08
Careful. With say why it could be, you
54:12
know, this way or that way if we don't actually have any written
54:16
anything written on it. Is is the only word I would have
54:18
on that, but no one I've been interested much yet.
54:21
Yeah, I was just going to say on that prophecy.
54:24
I I looked up that word there and I don't know what you guys
54:29
have done any serious study on this and I would like to study
54:32
it some more. But this here where is prophecy
54:36
with AC, the letter C and and it says the definition of that is
54:44
prediction scripture or other prophecy or prophesying.
54:49
So I was wrong on that end. It it is actually giving a
54:54
prophesying of something that is going to happen.
54:57
Now, the other word that I was thinking about is prophesied
55:01
with the word S and that that or the letter S, Sorry, that is
55:08
does say truth or tell events. So that could also be for
55:12
telling of events, but it says to speak under an inspiration.
55:16
In other words, you know, when someone is teaching something or
55:20
preaching something. And so I just wanted to clarify
55:23
that. I thought that's kind of
55:25
interesting. That's two different words
55:27
there. Actor prophecy.
55:29
And prophecy. So all that, all that prophecy
55:34
thing, I appreciated what you said aired about, you know,
55:37
foretelling like the coming of Jesus.
55:39
That's still a prophecy that, you know, he's going to come
55:41
back. There's a lot of things that we
55:43
can still prophecy. We could read in the word and we
55:44
could say, no, this is going to happen.
55:47
That's prophecy. But you know, in a, in a smaller
55:50
sense, the word, a word of knowledge or a word of wisdom is
55:54
actually a prophecy in a sense, you know, you're saying
55:57
something that's, you know, that's going to happen or
56:01
coming. Or it could be, you know, like a
56:03
word of knowledge, especially I have, I have knowledge about
56:06
this thing that's that you're going to be addressing or that I
56:08
get whatever. So in a smaller sense, but yeah,
56:12
I, I get a little bit annoyed sometimes and people that want
56:17
to say that prophecy is, is preaching.
56:18
I, I don't think it is. I think that's true.
56:20
Very, very different thing that I mean, you can put it in there,
56:24
but it simply doesn't fit with what I read about prophecy.
56:27
It's or telling of something that's pretty, pretty
56:31
straightforward. And, and I know some of the I I
56:34
just looked it up real quick in the Webster's 1828 just for fun.
56:38
And yeah, it's a foretelling of prediction, a declaration of
56:41
something to come. And I think that's how I read it
56:44
in the Bible. I'd be interested in more
56:46
thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, I think that
56:49
that's true. And like I said, now I
56:51
technically could you have a whole lesson over the return of
56:55
Christ, Sure, it'd be a prophesied, prophesied lesson.
56:59
You know what I mean? In that sense, you could preach
57:02
it, but it's not like every word you preach would be considered
57:05
prophecy is the way I would look at it.
57:08
And and just kind of backwards to what you said about the
57:11
things of men or the tongues angels.
57:14
Like that's my thing. It's like, I can't discredit it
57:20
because the Bible does mention it, but I don't personally, and
57:24
I don't want to be smarter than God.
57:26
I don't see, I don't ever see a scenario in which that's that's
57:32
profitable. But the reason I hate to also
57:36
hate to completely discount it is because what's the what's the
57:42
purpose? In other words, if he says, if
57:44
he's going to go on to say later on, you all can speak with
57:47
tongues as long as you have somebody there to interpret.
57:51
Is it? Is it that, and I'm asking the
57:54
question here, is it that they would have had a mixed multitude
57:57
in which this guy gets up and he speaks in a in another language
58:03
and it's just making sure the rest of the church knows what
58:06
was said to that group over there, that he doesn't know
58:09
their language. You know what I mean?
58:11
Or is it that there is a scenario in which somebody says
58:14
something, a word from God in a tongue, and everybody needs to
58:18
know what it is, so all are recipients of that
58:22
interpretation? You understand what I'm asking?
58:25
It's like to me, it has to be one of those two things.
58:28
Either the guy gets up and speaks in a tongue and there's a
58:31
group over here amongst the group that is hearing it in
58:35
their language, and then this guy is interpreting it to
58:38
everybody else so that the rest of the crowd knows what he said
58:41
to that group. Or.
58:43
Nobody knows what was said and we have to have the interpreter
58:46
so that the whole group can know what it is.
58:48
And I don't know which one it is.
58:50
I'm just, I mean, but it has to be one of those.
58:52
I was going to say, could it be both?
58:57
I got a wrap up versus here if I could share them yet in Second
59:03
Theftalonians 29 it says even him whose coming is after the
59:07
working of Satan with all power. Those doesn't say some power,
59:12
but with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all
59:16
deceivableness of unrighteousness.
59:18
And them that perish because they receive not the love of the
59:21
truth, that they might be saved for this 'cause God should send
59:26
them strong delusions that they should believe or lie.
59:28
That they all might be damned to believe not the truth, but have
59:31
pleasure in unrighteousness. That's the verse that a lot of
59:36
the faith healers really don't like you to talk about.
59:41
And the quickest way I can test that spirit is when you talk
59:46
about the wonderful works of Jesus Christ, impured
59:49
righteousness, everlasting atonement.
59:53
And that person isn't at our fellowship and he hears all the
59:58
things that Jesus Christ done for us and he goes, he was dead.
1:00:01
It was boring. There is no action.
1:00:06
It didn't do anything for me. That is someone that does not
1:00:09
love the very thing that Jesus Christ came to do for us.
1:00:14
He hates he wants something that he can feel shining something.
1:00:20
And I think it's that that working of Satan.
1:00:23
So I'm just putting that out there that if simply a babe,
1:00:28
someone that can't speak a young man up there talking about the
1:00:32
wonderful works of God that Jesus Christ did.
1:00:35
If that doesn't fire you up, if that doesn't make your edify
1:00:40
your inner man's like, yeah, out of the mouth of Bates.
1:00:44
You know, someone testifying, talking about the understanding
1:00:47
that they have about the work of Christ.
1:00:50
If that's dead, if that makes it, oh, nothing happened today.
1:00:55
If that's your that's where you're at, I'd say you're might
1:01:00
be believing a lie. Hey, babe, that's good.
1:01:05
Pay attention to that, that gift of discernment or whatever, you
1:01:09
know, keep keep your eyes on God, not us or any other Bible
1:01:13
teacher or Bible thumper God, God will instruct you into ways.
1:01:18
All right, our hours up. Thank you much guys.
1:01:20
Appreciate it. For those listening, you can
1:01:23
find previous episodes. We did a couple subjects prior
1:01:26
to this. Go to simply Christ Ministries
1:01:28
website. We got links to our platforms
1:01:30
where everything's recorded and produced in a podcast as well.
1:01:34
Glad to have you on tonight. Appreciate everything.
1:01:37
Appreciate the time that you put into this guys, and we'll be
1:01:40
back. I think we're actually going to
1:01:41
finish this chapter. I, I really wanted to hit the
1:01:44
last couple of verses too, but we just simply ran out of time.
1:01:47
So maybe we'll just keep on going in verse 12 here, chapter
1:01:51
12, verse 12 next week. So anyway, yeah, God bless you
1:01:55
guys. Thank you so much.
1:01:56
We'll see you back next time. Same time, same place.
1:01:58
God bless.