Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Jason Goff on Michael Jordan’s Peak, The 1996 Chicago Bulls | 05.05

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Jason Goff on Michael Jordan’s Peak, The 1996 Chicago Bulls | 05.05 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Wave.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: My name is Beaumontie Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. Got my man,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Jason Goff, here, live from Chicago. And I am terrified
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: about the obnoxious beast that I am about to unleash
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: as we discuss the 1996 Chicago Bulls. And I'm saying
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: that to you in the way that I did because
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget my good friend Wendell from college. Wendell
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: from Chicago. Wendell went to Whitney Young with Quentin Richardson.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: And, um, I just remember we got to school in 97,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: and he was just like, look, there's nothing you can
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: tell us about basketball. We got the best player. We
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: got the best defensive player. We got the best six-man.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: We got the best rebounder. It was such a matter-of-fact
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: ticking off of the dopeness of the Bulls, and I
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: really did just sit there like, yeah, there's really nothing
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: I can do about this. There's nothing that I have
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: to say.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: That was what it turned into, as if it wasn't
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: enough in the beginning just that you had fucking Jordan.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: The climb to the 96, we normally try to do
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: a step-by-step that gets us into what the year is.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to do this fast. I
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: just know 1984, Michael Jordan showed up. And it's so
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: wild because I don't get the feeling everybody like there
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: are a few people like Bobby Knight, who's like the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: best basketball player I've ever seen, you know, those sorts
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of things. But the truth is, he still went number
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: three in the draft. Like, I don't think there's anybody
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: that can honestly say they thought that dude was going
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to hit the league and average 28 points a game
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and then break his foot and put up 63 in
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the finals and then score 37 a game. and then
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: win the MVP and the defensive player of the year
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: at the same damn time, and then have two years
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: where he doesn't win the MVP, but probably was the
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: best player.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: In the NBA, and then you rattle off.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: The three championships, and then he takes a break, and
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: then he comes back in 95, and then 96 happens.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: When do you want to jump in?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Like, I feel like I just, like, what I remember
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: from watching the last dance was just being like, yo,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: it's kind of easy to forget that it was like
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: something going on every year.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Every single year. And the crazy part about it, I
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: went back and looked at some of the things when
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Ryan hit me. There's a lot of... You go to basketballreference.com.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of NBA-1s after 85, 86. It's like
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a moment where he didn't play a full season,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: where he wasn't first team. Like, you're one of the
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: five best players for 9, 10, 11 years straight. And
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: we see it with LeBron. You know, we see it
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: with certain guys. And like, all right, cool. But not
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: only the best player, but like dominatingly the best player.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: There wasn't no conversations about it. I... Leading up to it,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and you forgot to mention, best coach too, right? The
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: way that all that came together, the first three were ridiculous.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of conversations that happen in this city,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm not mad at it. That 92 team might
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: have been the best all-around team.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: That was ill.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: That 92 team, and because it was more Jordan Pittman too.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: You look at, I think John Paxson was the third-leading
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: scorer in the playoffs.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That year, 92, right? It's like 10 points a game.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It was all those two dudes.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: That is an indictment. That is an indictment of Horace Grant.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: What you just said is an indictment of Horace Grant.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And shout out to Horace. Horace had his ups and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: some of his downs. And we saw in the last
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: dance when the Orlando thing. Boy, you talk about can't
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: come back. when Horace went up on them shoulders. And
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: it was in 94? No, 95, 95, the end.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Of the 95.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. It was like, you can't, and now
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: he's been walking back in. I just, I don't take
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: for granted that from the moment I was 11 years
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: old to the day I graduated high school, every single year,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I was watching the best basketball team, not only in
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the game, but arguably one of the best in the sport.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Just in terms of runs. And then you get to 96,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and that is, in terms of a cultural year, you
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: look at the albums that came out that year. You
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: look at everything that was happening around the sport. And
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: then him coming back and it being, okay, Mike's back.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: This ain't you getting ripped from behind Nick Anderson. This
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: ain't Mike coming back from baseball. This is Michael is back.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And leading up to it, the two years, which are
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: two of my... We talked about this. Two of my
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: favorite years as a Bulls fan was Scottie Pippen was running...
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: They had two guys who got the top five voting, 96, right?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And MVP, if I'm not mistaken. I think maybe Scottie
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: might have been fifth or sixth, but Scottie had... No,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, if.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: If Scottie was 56 in the 95 MVP voting, that
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: was a preposterous travesty. That team was like, it was
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: about 50-50 when Mike came back. I do not, and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: you know, he was number seven.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: You're right. He was number seven.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Seven.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Two dudes on.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: The same squad. He made first team all NBA in 95.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: That, you know, we've talked about this. Two kinds of people.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: People think Scottie Pippen overrated. People think Scottie Pippen underrated.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And you talking to the same two people on the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: same platform right now, because I think Scottie Pippen is
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: one of the dumbest dudes to ever pick up a basketball.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And I hear you. And sometimes I got to, I
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: got to, I got to shoo myself. Like, like last
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: was a couple of episodes ago when you was talking
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: about who was I able to sue him?
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh yeah, Bo ain't from here.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So he don't know. Right. I'm expecting you to be
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: watching Illinois Big Ten moves like, you don't know what
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: he did in Illinois. That's the same way I get
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: about him. That's the same way I get about him.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Brother, I was about to treat Ayo like I treated
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: that boy Shad Pipple. I was about to have Ayo
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: coming straight from the motherland, dog. Maybe he took a stop.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: In London or maybe he was from Houston. I ain't know.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Y'all had enough Nigerians to be sending him to the NBA.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Huge, huge population here and great family too. Great family,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: but I know I don't want to derail you Hold.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: On, are you saying the Dosunmus got a huge population,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: or you mean the Nigerians in general?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Both. Both? In the city?
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Both. Oh, yeah.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: I had to say, no, maybe it was a gang
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: of Dosunmus, you know what I'm saying?
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: There's a gang of them, and it's a lot of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Nigerians in the city as well. I know too many promoters.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I know too many party promoters to not have bumped
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: into the Nigerian community. I know too many real estate
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: homies who to have not have bumped into the Nigerian
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: community here in the city of Chicago.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: But yeah, man, this, this, um, this, this 96 thing
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: was so ill.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: In so many ways because it was, um, You get
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: two years where you let the Houston Rockets win their championships.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Keem do what he does. Drexler does. I know, I know. Yeah,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I'm here with it. Drexler does what he does in
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: that second year. And then the true rightful owners.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Of the throne.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Who was going to guard a Keem? Who was going
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to guard Dream is all I'm saying. I'm not even
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: a Rockets fan. Who was going to guard Dream? Dream
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: would be wearing Horace Grant and Cartwright. Cartwright only had
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: one strategy for Keem. What was that strategy, Jason Goff?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: What was that strategy that Cartwright had?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Elbow and hurdle.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that elbow to break his face. That was all
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: he had.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, he was out there firing y'all asses up. The
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Rockets had an over 500 record against the Bulls. Nobody
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: else did. All I'm saying is the Bulls would not
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: have won all their reigns. The Rockets would have got
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: at least one of them. And y'all need to stop
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: acting like it was just like somebody did a favor
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Mike was so damn burned out after 93. He had
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: to leave and go play baseball.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: He was.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Y'all think he... Okay, anyway.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I understand. I understand where it comes from.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: The Bulls were down for a couple of years.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: The Bulls were down for a couple of years. Like
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I said, the two years, you had the O.J. Chase
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: on TV, all that good stuff happening, Shaq versus the King.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: That was fools. But then the return of the real
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: ones came, right? Mike came back. Scotty had gotten to
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: that elevated sense of self, right? And then the dentist thing, which,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you know, there are very few things that make a
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: sports community really show how phony it is when.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: A rival joins your team, right? Hey, man, you.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Can't do nothing about it at that point.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: They didn't even, like, there were conversations of like, does
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Scottie want him on the team? Does Michael want him
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: on the team? Well, you know, yeah, they do. Because
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: they need that position to be filled. You weren't going
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to go out there with, you know, Ed Neely or
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Larry Kristowiak or anything else out there. You're going to
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: go with that dude. And what he did to the city. Like,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I've always, I've always tried to posit that Michael Jordan
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: was everyone's, right? In a way that Derrick Rose felt
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: like he was more, obviously, Chicago's. Dennis Rodman dropped into
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Chicago and immediately set the city on fire and was
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: like places that people that wore Bulls uniforms were just
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: not at. Right. So there was that connectivity there. And
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: they were rock stars, man. I remember Jim Clemens.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: Used to pull up to my barbershop in Evanston.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And he'd pull up and he had- Assistant coach Jim Clemons.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Assistant Jim Clemons went on to be the Dallas Mavericks
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: head coach for a little bit as well. And he pulled-
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: That was a terrible idea. On multiple levels, by the way.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: On multiple levels. But he'd pull up and it'd be
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: like the Beatles pulling up, dog. Like it was- You
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: had Oprah, who was still popping at that time. There
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: was a lot of Chicago-centric shit happening, not only in
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the sports world, but in pop culture. And to watch
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: that team, I remember it might have been first week
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: in February. Damn. Yeah. It was back-to-back losses to the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets and the Phoenix Suns on the circus trip.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Every year, Barnum & Bailey Circus would come to the
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: United Center slash Chicago Stadium before that, and there'd be
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: a seven-game trip. It's like the Grammy trip for the Lakers. Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And they go out west. And every year, I knew
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: as a kid, late basketball. I could stay up late,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: watch it, hang out with my best friends on the
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Bulls telecast. Man, do you know when they lost those
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: two games to a young Antonio McDyess and a rookie
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Michael Finley, the calls that were happening, it was because
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the Bulls were on the verge of losing three games
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: in a month for the first time. That's how real
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it was. Two losses, we let you slide. Three back-to-back
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: losses on the circus trip that Dennis Rodman is on
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the team now? Oh, yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: There was a lot of consternation there.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Well, hold on.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I want to back up to Dennis Rodman getting to
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the Bulls because I think the circumstances that surround that
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: are noteworthy, right? So those who weren't around, even those
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: who don't remember that much, Dennis Rodman played two years
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: in San Antonio. San Antonio straight is Sean Elliott for
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman, okay? I don't think you could sub out
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: one personality and replace him with another and shift the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: tenor of the room more significantly than that.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Like, they are completely different humans. And you bring Dennis
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Rodman there. Bob Hill was the coach. Greg Popovich was
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: the general manager. Your best player is David Robinson, who
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: is an awesome player at this point.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: He is one of the two best players in the NBA.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: At this point, that's the dude that if you drop
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: him off now, it's just like, okay, this is completely unfair.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: But just an unreal player and a really, really good
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: man who had nothing in common with Dennis Rodman whatsoever.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And I don't think Dennis Rodman had a modicum of
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: respect for him and his old military shit.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: And all this stuff. None of that. He wasn't going
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: for it. But Rodman was really good. They were really good.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Rodman becomes this giant star while in San Antonio and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: in 1995 during the Western Conference Finals. And there'd been
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: all of Dennis Rodman's stuff going on throughout the year anyway.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: there was a Sports Illustrated cover story written by Michael
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Silver called Rare Bird and Rodman. It looked like he
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: owned the cover of a Prince album, right? Like he
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: got on like a leather, he got like a parrot.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like there was some lingerie element that was
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: involved in.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: It, right? I remember the day after that.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: And I remember the day after that issue came out,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I want to say it was game two in the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: finals and he was out there putting up shots.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Like it was about him. Like it was the wildest shit.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: They got so sick of having him That the Spurs
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: traded Dennis Rodman straight up for who, Jason Goff?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: My former co-host and partner, Will Perdue, ladies and gentlemen.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: My guy.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Straight up. Dennis Rodman for Will Purdue.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: The Spurs were telling the world we're willing to get worse.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Just get this dude out of here, right? It's like
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: we have a friend of the program who once a
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: landlord pulled up at his crib when he was in
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: college and it was so tore up.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And they owe money and he was like, I don't
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: care about the money, just leave.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Get out of here tomorrow. Nothing else matters. You just
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: have to go. That's what they did with Dennis Rodman.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And what they did with the Bulls, look, all Dennis
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Rodman did was play monster defense and get rebounds, right?
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: He passed well. He'd make all the right plays.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the last dance shit where you're doing
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: all that or whatever. But what they really did when
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: they got Dennis Rodman was it allowed them to periodically,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: if you thought you were going to beat them and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: get ahead, they would go into this 2-2-1, three-quarter, a
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: half-court trap. I can't remember what it was. It was
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the defensive equivalent of the Warriors' death lineup. This lineup
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: comes in, and now NBA teams look like it's the
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: seventh grade versus the faculty game, and y'all can't get
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: the ball past half-court.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: The energy. The energy, right? And that's the thing, too. Like, after, like,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Dennis had some hard miles on him, too, from Detroit
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to San Antonio. When he got to Chicago. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: A lot of things. When he got to Chicago, it was,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: is he going to not only be able to hold up,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: but can you sustain this type of intensity and energy
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: throughout the rest of the season at the age that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: he was getting?
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Like, we treat dudes now.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Who, being in the NBA at 17 years, 18 years, like, oh, look,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he's still in great shape. I mean, James Buda Edwards
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: was on that 96 team in his 18th year, and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that and KD don't look the same, right?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So guys age differently, and basketball was different back then.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Dennis would not only steal you possessions, but his energy
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: through three- or four-minute spurts would just berate teams and
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: turn teams into... Like, for instance, I remember watching some
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of those 96... What was it? The Miami series. where, yeah,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: 96 Miami series, where you got, you know, a lot
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: of the morning, you got Tim Harden, you got some
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: cats over there. And Dennis ran up and down and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: he annoyed people. He got the ball, extra possessions, deflections.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Dennis was a terrific passer when he was locked in.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Like there were moments where he was just wanting to
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: be himself and feel allowed for it because he knew
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: he was going to get all the extra shit from
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: him too. And he did that three straight years. But
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: that was the first year where, It was the proof
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: of concept. Because like you mentioned, when he was in
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: San Antonio, that's when the demolition man hairdo thing, the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: blonde hair happened. And people were like, all right, this
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is now sideshow. And now we're getting away from basketball.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: But he was still amazing at basketball. He was still
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: an amazing defender. Like Dennis in that Seattle series in 96,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: he guarded everyone. He guarded Peyton. He guarded Detlef. He
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: guarded Sean Kemp. He guarded everybody on that team because
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he was that cold. Whoa.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Hold on.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: What is interesting is that Dennis Rodman has spent years
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: getting all kind of funny shit cut in his hair.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: All kinds of sayings and all of this stuff.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: But when he did The Demolition Man, Dennis Rodman endured
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: as a pop culture figure much longer than that expected
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: blockbuster movie did.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: It's called Demolition Man.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It was Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes. And Wesley Snipes'
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: character had a blonde dyed box. Because it started with
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Dennis having the actual, the exact haircut. And then it
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: just turned into like the evolution of all the colors.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: But the thing that happened that I don't think anybody
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: really bet on is he became so famous. He's out
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: here dating Madonna and all of this stuff. But they
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: were saying that in 96, by the time that came around,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Dennis was getting a louder ovation in the building than
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Jordan was during intros. It was almost like Dennis Rodman
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: got to be treated like a white man. And this
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: is what I mean by that. If you have ever
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: covered or been around a team that had that particular
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: white man on the team, nobody could bring them out.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: They seats quite like a shot blocking white man. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I know this because I was in Miami when they
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: had the bird man. I am not convinced that when
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Ray Allen hit that shot in game six in 2013,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not convinced in that guy louder than when Birdman
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: would get a block.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: When Birdman would get a block, it would just all
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: turn up.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And Dennis Rodman like managed to occupy somehow being that guy.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: He became like white man fan favorite. It'd be like
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a Bobby Hanson kahoot.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: So, Shout out to Bobby. That's a stray that he
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: didn't need to catch just now, and I noticed it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: You covering your relationship with Bobby Hanson rather than just
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: letting that ride. You have the option of letting that
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: shit ride. But you're like, hold on, let me put
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: on my cape. White man in distress.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: No, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Speak it. Don't do that.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: But Dennis, you know, it's funny that you mention, Dennis
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: was white.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Adjacent in a way that he did all the white
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: dude shit, right? Like, he dated the Carmen Electras of
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: He rode the Harleys.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: He would go to Excalibur where you wouldn't catch many,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: if any, brothers here in the city. Like, he would
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: do those things. And he listened to rock and roll music.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: He hung out with Tommy Lee. Like, he was, you
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: know what he is? He was, like, every white man's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: favorite dude that they kind of like to work with
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: but never want to live next to.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying? They can't wait to run
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: into Earl at the gig.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So they can just laugh about silly shit and live
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: vicariously through his escapades, but they don't really want you
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to live right next door to them. Dennis had that
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: vibe to him. And the shit that he would do...
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: As a kid, I liked wrestling. So... I kind of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: understood a lot of what he was giving off. Like
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the full layouts to get loose balls, where it'd be like,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: if you dove and kind of corralled it and threw
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it back with your athleticism, it would actually be a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: possession that you stole.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: And also, you know, you can keep it going.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: But the guys who say a dunk is worth more
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: than two points, all of Dennis' shit was worth more
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: than it looked like on the court and I hate
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to do that whole feeling and emotion thing and vibes
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and all that because it's so nebulous but He, he
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: did things where you knew he wasn't involved and engaged
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: in the game and he would just turn up and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it'd be like, I'm here now. And everybody else will
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: rise with him. And that would happen once or twice
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: a game. And then you'd see him sit over there
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: with the towel over his head and taking it. Like
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: he took his shoes off when he subbed out. Like
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: he did a lot of weird shit.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: So he was always, he was always, it seemed, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: I hate to, to put it this way, but he was, he.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Seemed like a lot of basketball fans' favorite pet. Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, look what Dennis is doing.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Did you see Dennis last night? And meanwhile, he's shutting
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: down huge, huge centers in power forwards who are three
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: or four inches taller than him. and getting 17, 16 rebounds.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And at the end there, his rebounds became kind of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like the Ray Lewis tackles at the end of his run,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: where it was like, if he was anywhere around it,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Ray touch a pile, Ray got 27 tackles that day.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: It started to get to that level, but he was
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: that kick in the ass that I think Phil Jackson
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: wanted the Bulls to have. There was that understanding of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: how to play basketball, but the energy just... The energy
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: just wasn't going to be right. And if you put
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: anybody else in that position.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like they needed the opposite of the kick
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: in the ass because the kick in the ass.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Was Mike all the time, right?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Like somebody had to make this seem like it was
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit more entertaining because like this dude is,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: it never turns off with him.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Like he's always there.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: But I always felt like with Rodman too, that once
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Mike came back to that team, It's like, so how
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: exactly do you go about making this team better? Cause
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that's not a team that truly needs a secondary scoring option.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Like normally somebody in Mike's position, you're like, yo, we
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: got to get somebody else out here to give Mike
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: some help getting these buckets. Cause Scotty ain't going to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: do it, but it never really was at the point
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: where you needed somebody else to go get them buckets.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: It was just like, nah, let's, we can make a
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: very easy adjustment by getting will Purdue out of here
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: and And we're going to bring in Dennis Rodman. And, yeah,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: now also this team that was going to be the
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: biggest deal anyway, they add the guy that's become as
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: big a star as anybody in the NBA, the dude
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: that's the one that they all flock into when they
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: go to the club, even though he ain't taking no
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: shower after the game.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You seen KG talk about that?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: KG be like, yo, after the game, Dennis Rodman on
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: the Stairmaster in combat boots and then going funky, going
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: straight to the club because he going for the ones
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: that like that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: And had the baddest ones there.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like it's like even all the
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: way clean, Dennis look like he just got through hooping.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: So why not just go after you got done hooping?
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Craziest thing, the craziest dinner story in a club that
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I've ever experienced was the first year that the Bulls
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: bowed out under Derrick Rose and that Carlos Boozer, you know,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the wall dang team. And everybody was in town for
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that game. I mean, everybody, like you walk into the
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: locker room afterwards and Latrell Sprewell is in there. Like,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: why are all these people here? This is the center
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of the basketball universe for some reason that night. And
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: we go out and a lady walks into the club
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: with a ferret on her shoulder. And I was like,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: what's happening here? And I asked some questions and nobody knew.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: And then it made sense because Dennis came in shortly
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: after that lady and other ladies came with him. It
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: was just, that's the kind of, you know, shout or not,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: ferret or not, your game, your moment or not. Dennis
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Rodman has always had that, that kind of, you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: the je ne sais quoi.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you what's so crazy about this.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: We talk about the 96 Bulls and we let Dennis
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Rodman detour us. We have not actually talked about that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Mike came back thing, right? Like Mike came back. So
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: coming up next, we're going to talk about this. 96,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Mike came back and Mike came back with the worst
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: thing for the world that he ever could have come
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: back with. And I'll tell you what that is when
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: we come back. You can predict the playoff action all
• 24:05
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• 25:01
  Speaker 2: hyphen offer hyphen terms. All right, back here with Jason Goff,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: talking about the 96 Bulls. And yeah, so Jordan comes back,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: and the man who invented slights in his own mind
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: to motivate himself had one.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Two of them.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Nick Anderson took the rock from him. We talked about that.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And it's funny because Nick Addison's career ended two series
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: later when he missed those free throws. But Nick Addison
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: took the rock from him. And then they carried Horace
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Grant off on shoulders. And that meant that Michael Jordan
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: was coming back with a vengeance. And I mean, look,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: at this point, Michael Jordan is 32, 33 years old.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Like he is not a young man.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: The idea that he could come back and just house
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the league again is insane.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Considering he took two seasons off.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And he came back, you know, that fadeaway jump shot was,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: was in the works.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: He didn't have it.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: He was in the works, right? Like he did it,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you know, he take it with it, but it was
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of jumping over people, a lot of angles,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you know, his in and out dribble is arguably like
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: people I talk about crossovers. You go back and see
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: how much work he did with that in and out
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: dribble from 91, 93 is crazy. Very fundamental dude. But
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: then the fadeaway comes back. The postgame comes with him, right?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: He looks bigger, obviously. He's getting older. And then he plays, right?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And this is where people have the conversations and get
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: into it. And the LeBron-Jordan conversation is so tiresome. But
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: when people do bring it up, they talk about how
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: much he played. He played. And not only did he play,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: he comes back at that age after having that much rust.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and leads the league in field goal attempts, right? And
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: this is looking Scotty in the eyes after two years
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: of you being the man. You know, you ride around
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: with Hugh Hollins on your shoulder everywhere you go. Like, Hugh,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I would have, you know, things would have been different. Hugh,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you come back and not only come back and go,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not only still Mike, I'm going to take the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: most shots. I'm going to be the most efficient. Like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the shit that we see SGA doing now, Mike was
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: doing that for 9, 10, 11 years straight. where it's like, nah, dog, he, damn,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: he did. And how many did he shoot? Now, what'd
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: he do there? And this is without the three, right?
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: This is without the three. This is without a lot of, like,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the game, the way the game was, where you played
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: pretty much elbow to paint, and every once in a while,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: you had a specialist who was out there. He was
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of this shit in traffic. He was
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of this stuff where, you know, the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: zone rules were different. It was crazy, man. It was
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: absolutely crazy.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: But let us not forget something somewhat important about the
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: 96th season. However, that's the year that Jordan shot 43%
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: from three, because that was when they had moved a
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: three point line in just a little bit.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Now granted, everybody got to benefit from that, but Mike
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: came up in an era where having a three point
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: shot was not a requirement and his range did not
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: really go out that far, but it didn't really matter
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: because nobody could stop him from going to the rack.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: But in that year, Mike hit 43% of his threes.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Cause you talked about the basketball reference that a lot
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of NBA one. The other thing about him is his, um,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: advanced numbers.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Page has all the bold face, right?
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Like the numbers bear out everything we tell you about
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Michael Jordan. Like this is not just simply about fandom
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: by every metric basically that exists.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: He was that dude.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: He came back off whatever you want to call it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: And in 96, he was literally as good as he
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: had ever been relative to his peers.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: 96 was a... There was a control to his game
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: where you thought the ultimate level of control had been
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: reached already. There was control to... Because let's face it,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: when he goes to Barcelona and that is really the...
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: All right, this is never going to be anybody else's.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And Magic and Larry mentioned that, right? We're three or
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: four years removed from that where... The game has, you know,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: moved on a little bit, obviously, and then you're introducing
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: new players, right? The Grant Hills of the world, the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Jason Kidds of the world. Like, the league is in
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the moment looking for whatever the next face is going
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to be, right? Shaq just came in here in 92,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and we're like, we've never seen anything like this. This
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: is Wilt with an extra 50, 70 pounds or something like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: all those things are happening. He comes back with a
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: controlled dominance that, from 96 to 98, people talk about
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: which run was more fun. The opponents were probably more
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: fun 91 to 93, but I'm just talking about going
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: out there every night and understanding there was going to
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: be a moment in the game where i've been baker
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: i glenn robertson all right ray appreciate you all y'all
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: been cool this is a tuesday night in january i'm
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: gonna get you up out of here with this 16
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to 2 run in the third quarter like there were
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: more you i Johnny Red Kerr and Tom Doerr would
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: talk about the moment that they were waiting for when
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Mike and them would just turn it on. And they knew,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: kind of like when Tiger used to get ready for
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the Masters when he was, you know, big dog back
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: in the day. where you go to these little tournaments
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and work on shit, and you're like, why is Tiger
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: taking that shot from the fringe? He meant to go
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: there because he knows that at some point he's going
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to have to use this wicked flop shot that he
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't have in his bag two, three, four, five, six
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: tournaments ago. That's all the regular season seemed like that year. Like,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: 72 wins. I know the Golden State Warriors case of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the 73-9 and them not winning the championship, that looked
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: different because of the proliferation of the three-point shot and
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: how it made just teams like just crumble. And now
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: we think, hey, you're down 20 with seven minutes left.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: You still got a chance. This was a time where
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: if you were down 10, down eight to those boys,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the way they played defense and how controlled his game
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: was and how controlled Scottie's game became as well. It
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: was a sweet spot for basketball that, seemingly the first
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: three years of championships didn't suffice. Like going up against
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Magic in 91, 92 with the team that beat the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Blazers and how ridiculous that was. And then you realize
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: that the three-peat happens against that Barkley squad. But 96
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: just felt like, all right, this is a dude who
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: is at the top of his game. He has had
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: two years off. it seems like he's functioning at a
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: different level. And on top of it, they know exactly
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: what they needed around him, right? They knew that, all right,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you got to switch Jon Paxson out for B.J. Armstrong.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: Now you got to add a Tony Kukoc.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Like, it was a perfect organizational dominant player meets greatest
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of all time kind of vibe. Like, it was... It
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: was a great, great, great moment in time, man. Great
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: moment in basketball.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Well, they were afforded the rare opportunity where we got
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: to see them get back on top, but we never
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: had to watch them fall because of the way that
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Jordan left and the timing of.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: It all, right?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It was what people expected when Muhammad Ali came back
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: from having his license taken back.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: That, okay, good, he's just going to come back and
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: be the champ again, right?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And I guess maybe you could make the argument that
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: losing to the Magic in 95 was like when Ali
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: lost to Joe Frazier. But no, I think that's still a, like,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Ali didn't come straight into fighting Joe Frazier, right?
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Like, they had some, you know, they had some other
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: fights before we wound up getting there.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: But I think when you start talking about those runs,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: that clip of that all the smoke live of Kevin
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Garnett talking about What it was like when the Timberwolves
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: had this lead over the Bulls and J.R.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Ryder was giving Mike the work. And KG is like.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: And Mike is over there watching. And J.R.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Ryder, the best part about this story to me about J.R.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Ryder is J.R. Ryder's rookie year was 1994.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: OK, so I look this up.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Prior to 96, the 95-96 season, J.R. Ryder had never
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: played in a game with Michael Jordan.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: He hadn't.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: When would he?
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Jordan came back with 15 games left in the 95 season.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So he had never played against Jordan, but he knew
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: enough to know that KG needed to shut the fuck
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: up because Mike is not going to appreciate this. And
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: he said, that's when the run came, where KG is like,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I can't begin to explain to you what happened in
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: the next four or five minutes of play, where he
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: said it just felt like they were on defense all
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the time. that that might just came back the other
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: way like the run was going to be there the
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: one home game they lost that year because remember they
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: lost one home game and i believe it was to
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: the hornets that they lost that home game i think
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: the hornets were out there wearing the purple shirts and
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: but i remember in that game the bulls got in
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: that trap and it looked like them boys wasn't gonna
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: have no chance and somehow somehow the hornets.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Withstood but it was just like hey man um What
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: are we... What are we supposed to do with this?
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they lost two home games that year, but the
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Hornets were the first one, I want to say.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And by the way, that J.R. Ryder.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: My bad, I'm trying to do this in real time.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: The J.R. Ryder reference, too, by the way, for the
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: people who don't know, if you're making an ain't-no-bitch list,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: he is very high up on that list in NBA
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: recent memory. J.R. Ryder ain't no punk, so to imagine
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: him saying, hey, man, let's try not to Let's try
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: not to piss this dude off. You know what I'm saying?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Let's try. No, JR, hey, Mike. Stop talking crazy, too.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: You don't know yet, Mike.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Like, he is asking Mike for, like, for mercy, basically.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: So tell me how that makes you feel.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Because I've had so many conversations with dudes who played
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: during that era. And for all this league and this
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: era and this generation ain't tough stuff, I hear all
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: these conversations. And, you know, people have their reasons. But, like,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: with complete deference to a man.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: But only to one man. But only to one man.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Dudes who would knock anybody out. Yes. It's like....
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: It's like listening to cats like Bob Lilly talk about
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Jim Brown or like talk about Dick Buckus, right? Like
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I think one thing we could fully acknowledge football was
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: a tougher game back then than it turned into, right?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Like I think there's, nobody has any questions about that.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And them old heads, hey man, you have to humble
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: yourself before a particular sort of greatness.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: And with Mike, he was just terrifying. Like when Stephen A.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Smith and J.J.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Redding got in that argument about whether or not people
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: were afraid of LeBron, people might be afraid of LeBron, right?
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: J.J. may be correct about it, but.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: It ain't like when these cats talk about Mike, were
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: they afraid to talk?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to say a word around him.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: It's different. He carried that.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Because LeBron's not crazy.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the definite psychotic nature of, and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: let's face it, the archetype too. Like, you know, Mike
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: leading up to that 96 season, there was an NBA
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: where you had to have a big, right? You had
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Brad Doherty in Cleveland. You had this one here. You
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: had that one there. Yeah. Mike and the wing dominance
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: came throughout the late 80s, early 90s, that whole run.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: And then in 96, when you land there and you
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: see not only the elbow stuff, the terrifying nature, the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: psychotic making up of of things to fuel him. We
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: were aware of how he was treating teammates, too, by
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: This is the other thing, too. This is before social media.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: This is before... Cable news was our access to the
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: world and also the writers.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: And the writers were like, hey, dudes are walking around.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: This motherfucker's scared. this does not feel like a great
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: workplace but they winning championships so you can't do shit
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: about it Terry Boers God rest his soul he's right
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: for the Chicago I believe Terry was Terry was a
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: sometimes guy yeah yeah and Terry said after his third
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: practice of seeing Mike, he was like, he went to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the phone, he was like, the Bulls have the best player,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: one of the best players in the league. I don't
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: need to see no more. So from that moment on,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Mike built up to being the crazy that you saw, right?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Mike came to Chicago and drank Lipton iced teas and
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: ended up being the dude who had 23 on every
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Ferrari and every Benz ever made. He turned into this
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: maniacal dude. And in 96, coming back, the disrespect that
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I think he took from the Orlando Magic even winning.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: That series, right?
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Like, he had been to Market Square Arena, face down
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: to Knicks, seeing the bad boy Pistons walk past me
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: in the Auburn Hills, passing of the torch that way.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: You mean to tell me the Mickey Mouse team gonna
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: come out here and do this? Bet. Bet. Scotty, clear
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: it up, get your migraine medication, do whatever you gotta do.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: We ain't filming no movies, we good money. We out here.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And 96 was that. And And not to mention, the
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: way that Michael Jordan controlled....
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Well, hold on, hold on.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Let me hit you on something you just said about
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: filming the movie that this is very important to note,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: which is the summer of 95 is when they shot
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: that movie, right? Mike, in terms of the deference and
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: everything else that we were just talking about, These cats.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't do this for LeBron.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Ever.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: These cats volunteered.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: To be in a movie to be vanquished by Michael Jordan. Now,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: maybe they agreed to it when Mike was retired. And
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: so they didn't think that they were setting themselves up
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: for this against an active player. But a big part
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: of his summer to get ready for the season was
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Space Jam and then playing pickup games.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: See, and that's the crazy part is because that's the bullshit.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: People around the league knew that he was running up
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: to the Birdo Center and practicing with them dudes throughout.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: You know, Chris Mullen and Tim Hardaway sat down and
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: interviewed those dudes for NBC Sports Chicago a couple years,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a few years back. And those cats was like, oh, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: he pulled up in the Bay in 1990. 95 and
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: was like, I just want to get a run in
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: real quick. To their practice. To their practice. Can you
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: imagine pulling up to the Oklahoma City Thunder facility as,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Nick Collison or Russell.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Y'all got y'all five?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Like, hey, we doing something here.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: And you're not on.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Our team, by the way. Like, this is the level
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: of deference that these cats had to this man. And
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: as he's filming this, you know, Grant, Jawan, everybody's out there.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: This dude is doing recon. He made y'all think, hey, man,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: come hoop with a real one. You might put you
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: in my movie. You know what I'm saying? We telling
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of lies in this movie. I'm telling a lot.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I live in a three-bedroom home in the suburbs.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: But here's the thing, though.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: But what's going to make you better than playing against
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Michael Jordan?
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Like, what path can you take toward.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Improvement that is more iron sharpens iron than we going
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: to go hoop with Mike?
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I feel you. But when you get your ass out
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: on that playoff court and he know that your left
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: ain't what it need to be.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know what?
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: He know all the shit you been saying about your teammates.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: But he was going, first of all, he was going
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: to know that anyway, right?
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Not the shit that you want to say about your teammates, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Mike's put up a.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Lot of teams. Maybe not that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe not that.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: But, like, number one, Mike was going to know that
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: about you. And another all-smoke, very all-smoke, is your place
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: for Jordan content. But when Reggie Miller was out there
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: talking about, like, so I looked up, like, what is
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: it that you could do with Mike, right? Like, what
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: did you, he's like, I never found a tail. I
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: never found anything. What was that you could get Mike doing, right?
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: And he's like, so what's his percentage if you make
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: him go left?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: What's his percentage if he goes right?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: What about if he takes a jumper from the elbow?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: What about if you make him go to the fadeaway?
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: It didn't matter, right?
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And so the 96 version of Mike is not the,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: he was still physically incredible, but he's not the physical
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: marvel that he used to be.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: But now he has become a supercomputer.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. And you couldn't do anything with him, nor
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: The triangle thing, there's moments where we talk about the triangle,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and then it gets over-exaggerated, the importance of it. But
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I also think the importance of it can't go... Can't
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: be understated. You could switch out Luke Longley for Bill Cartwright.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: You could switch out B.J. Armstrong for John Paxson. The
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: star of that entire thing, obviously, was Michael. But the
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: real star to me was Michael being like, this is
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: the way we do this because I fuck with Tex,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and I fuck with Johnny Bach, and I fuck with
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Phil Jackson. The things that had to be in play
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: for that 96 season, it wasn't just people getting shot
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: out the gym. and us having the four, three or
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: four greatest talents on the face of the earth as
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: an organization.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: We didn't even talk about Kukoc yet, by the way.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Like, the waiter came here, and
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: everybody was dissing him.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: It was like, this motherfucker actually cold. But we were
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: talking about Michael and Scotty, right?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Like, there was basketball hubris that this city has not had,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I think, in any other.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: Like, 85 Bears, obviously, right? But to see it.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned, be that machine-like, that efficient, and that dominant,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and to know that it was going to happen again.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Because during that season, like the first 20 games of
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: that season where I think they lost one, they're like,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: oh shit, they about to do this at a different
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: level than we saw. And what we saw was kind
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: of fire. Like those three here, 91 and 93 was amazing.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Now it's like, all right, nobody should beat you. And
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: then to have that target on your back. I remember
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: when they went, didn't they go to Atlanta and play
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: in the Georgia Dome? Like they had to open up
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: bigger spots.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I think that, I think that was later, but it
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: was like 75,000 people or something crazy like that.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Like, I mean, it was, there'll never be another time
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: like it because of how small the basketball world seemed
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: at the time and how few voices they truly were.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Like we remember the rivalries with Peter Vesey and people
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: who were reporting things. Like there was a, there was
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: an ecosphere around that Bulls team in 96 when the
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: comeback happened and, And the championship run seemingly started that
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: season because that's the other thing, too. You weren't finding
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: too many people, and this is why social media has
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: changed things, you weren't finding too many people rooting against
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the greatness, right? You were like, oh, are they going
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: to pull this shit off? Like, Detroit, people in Detroit,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: people in New York, obviously, right? But the whole country
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, they're going to pull this shit off,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: whereas I don't know what it would look like now
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: with all the bots and all the people, you know,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the think pieces. Like, it was just a different.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: There's a different feeling and a different energy back there.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: And 96 definitely was the start of that second three-peat
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: that kind of just felt different. If the first one
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: felt analog, this one felt digital. This one felt precise.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: This one felt like you were in surgery every single night.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I think a couple of things are underrated about it. One,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: they won 72 games when their previous record was 69.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? That's a big jump, right?
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: The Warriors could only get one win over them. Then
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: on top of that, the next year they won 69, right?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: And it was like, oh man, they were one short
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: of getting 70 again. They won 72 and 69 in
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: back-to-back seasons.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: That is a crazy number.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: The rest of the team, while we talk about how
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: they're put together, When you got dudes like Ron Harper
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: out there, and he's out here part of the operation
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: when it's time to put on that trap. You got
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: that boy Randy Brown out here. Randy Brown, he also
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: got to live the life of the white man, right?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Just a little spunky off the bench out here guarding people.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, right? Like, just go out
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: here and play hard. They clap for him like he
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: was a white man, too. Like, he got to be there.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: He got to live that life. Cool coach.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: As far as Chicago go, Chicago got a bunch of
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: his people's.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Like everybody got to have a little bit of something.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Luke Longley, that was the white, Luke Longley and Big Bill,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: y'all had white dudes, yeah, had white dudes.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: For the whites.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Had John Sally, you know, John Sally at the.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: John Sally did pop up there.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: You know what's so crazy? I thought John Sally was
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: like in his 15th year, like at that time. John
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Sally was in like year nine.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: It was only like eight.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: No, it's like year 12. It's like year 12, right?
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Hold on, I forgot about Joe Bushler. Yo, John, yo,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: not a lot of people gave back to his own
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: people quite like Phil Jackson did. Phil Jackson really did
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: the best he could to come through for his particular
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: brand of whites too.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones that'll take that walk with.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: You, right? Used to call them BWS, right? Big White Stiffs.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: He'd keep a couple of them around.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Mark Madsen, shout out to him.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: That whole thing, too, if I think of.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: When the Bulls were a worldwide global brand at that
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: point anyway, But it seemed as if the Bulls, because
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: obviously the Dennis Rodman part, and as you mentioned, the
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Tony Kukoc part. Tony Kukoc and Dino Raja was a
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: big thing when they came over here. Because it was like, oh,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: look at the European dudes. And the Celtics got one.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: The Bulls got one. Dino Raja was cold, too. But
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: the Bulls got one who helped him. He was sixth
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: man of the year that year. The dude was a 6'10,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: point guard at 190, 200 pounds. And knocking down big shots.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Everybody had forgotten about the Scotty Pippen, Tony Kukoc stuff
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: for that time period.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Scotty never forgot and still hasn't forgotten.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: But like people have put that to bed. Like there
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: was a.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Whole bunch going on with that team. There's certain squads
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: and I think Chicago has two of them. If you
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: go back and you can just drop social media or
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: our current. conversations that we have in any time period,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: the 85 Bears and that 96 team going on, that
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: would be, you know, that would be a different level
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of engagement.
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: Because they had, like you mentioned, they had everything. They
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: had absolutely everything.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Ron Harper is one of those dudes who, you know,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Gale Sayers as well, another Chicago. Like, if technology was
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: different when people got hurt, how things would be different
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: for them, Ron Harper and Cleveland was killing folks. And
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: then he got hurt, went to L.A., and people didn't
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: see it, really, him and Pooh Richardson in the background. Like, oh,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: look at these two guys. Ron Harper was out there like, hey,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: this might be the next one. In the late 80s,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: this might be the next one. Cleveland got themselves. Cleveland
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: had Mark Price, Brad Doherty, Ron Harper, like, Craig Elow,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Steve Kerr was on that squad. Like, that....
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: That whole thing, man.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Like, they had dudes who had roles as stars who
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: just had to be a part of something.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I wish I could do a whole Ron Price, I mean,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Mark Price episode.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: You can.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Mark Price, like, we had forgotten. Mark Price was just
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: so smart. Mark Price's first team All-NBA.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Cold.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Like, Mark Price was cold.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: First dude, too, and, you know, people can check me
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: on this. I've talked to a few people. First cat
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: that I remember routinely and actually made other teams implement it,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: split the double team. First cat that threw the ball
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: ahead when the double team came and split it in
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a way, because, you know, everybody's running pick and roll
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and doing that kind of thing. Split the double team,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: knock down the jump shot on you. KG, my man
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Kendall Gill, talks about it all the time, like Mark Price,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: one of the, one of the tougher covers, because that
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: stop on a dime stuff that you see now, teardrops,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: all that stuff that you see now.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: Mark Price, boy, like Mark Price is that, and Mark
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: Price is that dude.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. That dude is bro. It was decent to rent price,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: but yeah, like get Ron Harper. Uh, you mentioned Randy,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Randy Brown. I mean, they had, they had a perfect
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: team for a perfect time. And also, you know, I mean, you.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Can't, you can't really.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: You had, uh, you had Papa Bear, uh, Jason Caffey.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: So Jason Caffey, that's when I knew Jason Caffey was, uh,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing Jason Caffey in my neighborhood as a
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: kid and.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: Being like, hey, man, don't you play for the Bulls?
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Look, it's Jason Caffey, y'all. And then I realized... What
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: are you doing here? And then I realized why Jason
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Caffey was in the neighborhood. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I'm a child, but I think she's cool, too. I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: think she's outstanding over there at the end of the block. Dude,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: they had the city. They had the town. They had
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: the area. Chicago area on lock. There was nothing like
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: being a Bulls fan at that time. It's kind of sad, too,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: because When I went down to Georgia, one of the
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: first shows I did in Atlanta was like, hey, man,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: it's been a long time since Herschel Walker wore a
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Georgia Bulldogs helmet. You'd think at some point, a place
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: that ratchets itself in this kind of lore of football,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: you'd be able to win a championship.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: And obviously, 98, 97, 96 is a long time ago.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: There's whole 25-year-olds that have no clue, 30-year-olds that have
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: no clue about what those moments were in time. And
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: that was the beginning of a terrific, terrific run. And also,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: you kind of knew it was going to come to
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: an end because of not only how much basketball they played,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: but how big everyone had gotten.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: Jerry Kraus wanting his.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: credit and knew knowing that we knew jay cross wanted
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: his credit after 94 95 you know phil jackson going
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: through those two years without michael and then michael coming
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: back to show people like hey phil jackson still a
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: dope coach can win championships it was um it was
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: like when you when your faves grow up and still
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: got to hang out together but still colder what they
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: do but knowing at some point the band gonna break
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: up luckily it didn't break up for another two two
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: years or so but Yeah, that was an amazing, that's
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: why I had to ask Ryan on the text, like,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: are we talking 95-96 or 96-97? There's been so many.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Championships in that run, you know, it was kind of
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: tough for me.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: I know you understand.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: See, there you go.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: There you go. There you go.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hit you with this last thing, though,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: because you said something that I really hadn't thought about
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: at the very beginning of this, which is, Chicago is
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: one of.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: America's great cities, right? Like it is roundly.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I think there are, you don't meet people who are like,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: I don't like Chicago. You meet people who say they
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: don't like New York, who don't like LA, don't like Miami.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: You don't, you rarely, all people say is Chicago too
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: goddamn cold, but you will rarely hear people say they
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: don't like Chicago. But at the same time, Chicago is
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: not as, has never been as culturally influential. as these
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: other places. But I hadn't really thought about the idea
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: of how poppin' in some total Chicago was in 96. Like,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: 96 is also the year that, like, between 95 and 96,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: we got our first real national exposure to Chicago rap,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: for example.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Like, Chicago was a thing.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: So I, like, I was thinking about what it was
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: like to be in Chicago at that time just in
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: terms of the Bulls, but I hadn't really given enough
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: thought to the idea that it's being in Chicago and
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of stuff had got it cracked.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean, common, obviously, you know, Twister, Crucial
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Conflict had they run, like, you know, do or die,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Pope Pippin came out. Like there was, there was that,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: that mid nineties run was, yeah, not just an awakening,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: but because, you know, at the time I'm 16 years old,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: so I'm, I'm living the best years of my life,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: watching great sports, listening to what might be considered the
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: golden age of my favorite music.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: And all these things are happening.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, we had the greatest rapper
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: playing basketball. We had the greatest baseball player playing basketball.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: We had the greatest artist playing basketball. All these things.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan was hosting Saturday Night Live, dawg. like these
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: like michael jordan was all when he was a guest
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: on michael jordan never said anything that made me laugh
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: made my daddy laugh though you know why pride you
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: know that that's that's that's that's from here that that's
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: a person that does this 10 miles up the road
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: type of vibe yeah man that was that was an
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: amazing amazing period of time and it all It all
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: came together because cable TV and the Internet and all
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: those things. I remember going to the computer lab watching
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: highlights of plays that I had seen the night before
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: just because it was the Bulls. You know, guys leaving
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: for national. Jim Durham became a national star. uh, voice
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: of basketball. He was the Mavericks guy, but he was
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: a nationally, uh, national radio voice. And he was the
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: bulls guy. And when he left from like, man, what's
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: happening here? All of a sudden, Tom door and Johnny
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: red curve, like all those things, those moments made so
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: many stars, so many stars. Stacey King goes to Minnesota.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Scott Williams goes to Philadelphia, big money deals too, because
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: of those teams. And especially that 96 squad. I mean, I, uh, there's,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: there's no way to explain, uh, to people outside of
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: this city, how it felt in the moment. And even
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: when you go back and watch it, you remember like, man,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: that was a thing. On top of it, like, local basketball,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: high school basketball was a thing. So these Bulls players
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: were showing up to public league games, and it was like, yo, Jesus,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: just walked in to watch Kevin Gronkhead at Farragut, right?
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: To watch these dudes play Pat Beverly at Marshall. Like,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: these cats were local superstars, even though they were the
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: worlds in a way that, you know, I don't think
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: any other sport could translate, to be honest with you, right?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Baseball was cool.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: We had Andre Dawson and Frank Thomas.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Football, super cool. Obviously, the Bears, we all fall under
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: that umbrella. But Bulls fans had their own territory. And
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: for the world to get the chance to see it,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: for all those championships, and especially off the comeback, man,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: you couldn't tell Bulls fans shit. And rightfully so, because
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the lead was put on notice the moment he came back.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it was... Yeah, it was a great time.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: It was a great time. Had a lot more hair,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: a lot more vibes. You know what I mean? Skinnier.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: A lot less money. A lot less bread, but boy,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: you couldn't tell me shit.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Hey, babe, I'd say don't make it go dark at
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: the end, brother.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: You was heading into the Al Bundy zone there off
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: somebody else's touchdowns. You know what I'm saying? Hey, man,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: had to be careful, man. But look, Jason Goff That's
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: that boy. Check him out, man.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: You know where to find him, my brother. I appreciate you.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you, man. I appreciate you as always.
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: All right, man.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: here on The Right Time. We do this four days
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: a week. Ryan Brumley handling everything behind the scenes.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Hit the voicemail line 323-596-7767. Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like,
• 56:37
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• 56:39
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• 56:41
  Speaker 2: a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: of days.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Take it easy.