Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - 5th Doctor Special (featuring Luke, Dan, Lucy & Paul)

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Strictly Come Hamster - 5th Doctor Special (featuring Luke, Dan, Lucy & Paul) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:05
  In a manner of speaking. Emotional feelings.
• 0:14
  Of sorts. So powerful.
• 0:17
  Emotions have their uses. They restrict and curtail the
• 0:20
  intellect and logic of the mind. They also enhance life.
• 0:24
  When did you last have the pleasure of smelling a flower,
• 0:26
  watching a sunset, eating a well prepared meal?
• 0:29
  These things are irrelevant. For some people, small,
• 0:32
  beautiful events is what life is all about.
• 0:35
  You have perfection for this woman.
• 0:39
  She's a friend. And you do not consider
• 0:40
  friendship weakness? I do not.
• 0:45
  Kill her. The.
• 1:36
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster after a three or four
• 1:42
  month little break. My name is Joe Ford and I owe it
• 1:47
  to the four of you. So you see, I'm not going to let
• 1:51
  you stop me now. It is the 5th Doctor Overview
• 1:57
  Special where we will be determining but obviously not
• 2:00
  the best 5th Doctor special. That's down to all the geeks in
• 2:03
  Doctor Who Magazine will be determined in the strictly come
• 2:06
  hamster best 5th Doctor story and I have brought along 4
• 2:11
  experts on the era and huge fans of Luke Stem.
• 2:16
  Jenkins is currently looking behind him right now.
• 2:19
  Let's start with you. Hello Luke.
• 2:22
  Hello. How's it going?
• 2:23
  Yeah, well, I thought we'd start with all of us choosing one word
• 2:28
  to describe either the era, the 5th Doctor, or your experience
• 2:32
  with him. Salary.
• 2:37
  Oh, salary. I heard salary.
• 2:39
  I'm so sorry. That's my Aussie accent, you
• 2:42
  know, So that's all right. An entry coder.
• 2:45
  The best. The GOAT.
• 2:47
  Come on. That's a few words, but that's
• 2:49
  quite impressive. Now, Lucy McCall, what's going
• 2:53
  on? We have not got visitation in
• 2:55
  this list. I don't know.
• 2:58
  Madness. Do you have a single word, Lucy,
• 3:00
  to describe the 5th Doctor 0? Favorite.
• 3:05
  OK, well, that's why you're here, Mr. Paul Cresser.
• 3:09
  Pin up of the Strictly. Come hamster.
• 3:12
  Yeah, I've seen your blue sky. All right.
• 3:15
  Yeah. He's come wearing an Aussie bum
• 3:18
  T-shirt. Paul, how are you doing and
• 3:20
  what's your one word to describe the 5th Doctor era?
• 3:24
  I'm doing very well, thank you. And one word.
• 3:27
  Oh, you've put me on the spot. Ah, I would say varied.
• 3:33
  Oh, varied. OK, that's a very ambiguous
• 3:36
  word. We'll dig.
• 3:37
  In it is, isn't it? We will later.
• 3:40
  And last but not least, I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen
• 3:43
  such a group of amiable people on a cult.
• 3:45
  Usually I've got one cunt on the strict cum hamster.
• 3:48
  I ain't got one tonight. You're all lovely, Mr. Dan Pin.
• 3:51
  Hello, Dan. Hello Joe, How are you doing?
• 3:54
  I'm really well, thank you very much.
• 3:57
  Dan. How would you describe the 5th
• 3:58
  .0 in one word? Dashing Well, he doesn't and
• 4:04
  it's and it's and there's two meanings behind it, because I
• 4:06
  think he he was always dashing about and and breathless and
• 4:11
  running, but also I think he's probably at this point he was
• 4:14
  the most handsome guy that had taken on the part I would have
• 4:17
  thought as well. I think he might still be.
• 4:20
  He still is. Yeah.
• 4:21
  He might still be. Well, guys, thank you very much
• 4:26
  for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to
• 4:29
  this. I think I've been known to throw
• 4:31
  a bit of shade at this era. So for once, I'm just going to
• 4:34
  sort of pull back a little bit and hear what all you guys
• 4:37
  think, because I think you're going to be a little beguiling
• 4:40
  today. Can we start, please, with our
• 4:46
  thoughts on the era as a whole? So seasons 19 to 21 then you can
• 4:53
  take them a season at a time if you like, or just an overview.
• 4:57
  Let's pull someone at random. Everyone looks nervous, Lucy.
• 5:03
  I thought when I started re watching Doctor Who a little
• 5:07
  while ago that maybe I wasn't going to feel the same kind of
• 5:11
  emotional connection to the Davison era that I had when I
• 5:14
  was younger because I hadn't re watched it for ages or forever
• 5:18
  really. But actually I found as soon as
• 5:21
  I started watching it, I really did.
• 5:24
  I know that it gets criticised a lot for a lot of things that are
• 5:33
  not the fault of the characters or the performers.
• 5:37
  Like, it's not their fault that the producer decided they should
• 5:39
  all wear the same clothes all the time and that the script
• 5:45
  editor decided that bickering was a sign of character growth.
• 5:49
  But I still, I still really enjoy it, really like it.
• 5:53
  There's a couple of stories that I don't like as much as the
• 5:56
  others. But yeah, I think All in all,
• 6:01
  it's still, although I do feel like attached to some of the
• 6:04
  other areas now, it's still my favorite.
• 6:07
  Is there anything on our list apart from the visitation that
• 6:11
  you think would deserve a place in, like the route you know, the
• 6:14
  runners up or the winners? It's hard to tell really,
• 6:17
  because I don't I mean there there aren't so many and
• 6:20
  visitation is my favorite always was.
• 6:23
  But the other ones I don't really, you know, there are some
• 6:28
  that are a little bit perhaps better quote, UN quote than
• 6:31
  others and some that are not quite so good as others.
• 6:34
  But I don't think there's kind of massive peak and then massive
• 6:36
  through. But then I tend to think that
• 6:38
  about Doctor Who as a whole, really, which makes me a bit a
• 6:41
  bit useless on things like this, because I'm like, you know, it's
• 6:44
  okay. But you're like a big fan of
• 6:48
  and, you know, I know there's a lot of nostalgia in there, but
• 6:50
  you're a big fan of like, you know, Adric and Nyssa.
• 6:54
  Oh yeah, yeah, was my first, my first television crush.
• 6:57
  I think that I remember apart from maybe the Dukes of Hazzard
• 7:01
  as well. Good grief, the blonde one from
• 7:05
  the Dukes of Hazzard. I had had quite soft spot for
• 7:07
  when I when I'm my age was still in single figures.
• 7:10
  But Adric was my first, my first TV crush.
• 7:13
  So his demise was very upsetting to me because when I was
• 7:19
  watching it, when I was sort of eight or nine, I was quite
• 7:22
  emotionally young. And I was sort of in that stage
• 7:26
  where, you know, it's not real and, you know, they're actors.
• 7:30
  But at the same time, it kind of is as long as you don't talk to
• 7:34
  anybody about it, you know, if it's in your head, then it's
• 7:37
  they're real. So yeah.
• 7:40
  But yeah, I know that I like Nyssa as well.
• 7:42
  What I didn't, I didn't dislike Tegan, but I like Nyssa as well,
• 7:45
  I think because she was sort of, she's very pretty.
• 7:50
  She looked like a Princess and she was kind and sensible and
• 7:57
  brave. And yeah, I I it's been in a
• 8:03
  way, rediscovering sort of Doctor Who has been wonderful,
• 8:05
  but on in another way. I keep you when you keep reading
• 8:07
  things like, oh, this is so boring and everybody hates this
• 8:11
  story. And then I watch it and go don't
• 8:14
  care. So I can't throw any shade, I'm
• 8:19
  afraid, at you fancy an ADRIC when you was younger?
• 8:22
  Because my early crusher was Wesley Crusher, who was another
• 8:25
  geek in a science fiction show. So yeah, I can see the appeal.
• 8:29
  Well, Dan, what do you think of the era 19 to 21?
• 8:35
  Yeah, personally, I love it. This.
• 8:39
  This is where my Doctor Who journey began.
• 8:45
  I think I must have been roughly about 5 years old and I can
• 8:50
  remember the Ergon from Arc of Infinity triumphantly striding
• 8:57
  out of that doorway all backlit into the into that crypt.
• 9:02
  And I was hooked from there really.
• 9:05
  That that was, that's my, my earliest memory of, of, of
• 9:08
  Doctor Who. So like this, this era is, is my
• 9:12
  first Davos, Davos my, my first doctor, my doctor, I suppose.
• 9:19
  Yeah. And I, I just kind of I kind of
• 9:22
  love it because because I feel without, without this era, I
• 9:26
  wouldn't be the fan that I am today.
• 9:28
  So yeah, I just, I just kind of kind of love it.
• 9:33
  So Arc of Infinity is your int, Dr. Holmes.
• 9:36
  Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's.
• 9:40
  Never slack it off again. No, I mean, it's, I've got a
• 9:44
  soft spot for it, obviously, because it's my first one, but
• 9:47
  I, I, I, I, I'm not blind to the fact that it's not the strongest
• 9:52
  story in Doctor well, in this era, let alone Doctor Who.
• 9:59
  But yeah, you know, it's sort of like, you know, I, I'm not sure
• 10:02
  it was kind of aware of, of Peter Davidson prior to this.
• 10:07
  So I may have seen all creatures great and small, but I love the
• 10:11
  fact that he was a young guy, you know, kind of appealed to
• 10:16
  the the the child in me. But yeah, I just, I just think
• 10:21
  it's like it's also feels like, you know, in hindsight, it feels
• 10:24
  like a really brave new world as well, because we've we've come
• 10:28
  off the back of of seven years of, of Tom Baker.
• 10:33
  You you know, you've got JNT has come in with with almost with a
• 10:36
  new broom in in many respects, You know, all the companions
• 10:40
  from from that, you know, have kind of gone.
• 10:43
  We've got the. Fuck out, Dudley move.
• 10:44
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 10:46
  That was that was one thing. I mean, it's, I mean, that's the
• 10:49
  thing that that probably, I don't get me wrong, I love
• 10:53
  Dudley Simpson, but it's so nice to have like a different type of
• 10:59
  of music. We've and we've got different
• 11:00
  guys coming in, whether it's Peter Howell or or Paddy
• 11:03
  Kingsland or you know, and, and, and it's got that really cool
• 11:08
  synthesizer kind of vibes. It feels modern.
• 11:10
  It feels like it's it's kind of using up to the date kind of
• 11:14
  technology and and I think, you know, if I'm, you know, probably
• 11:20
  this is the best rendition of the Doctor Who theme tune.
• 11:23
  The you know, the Peter Howe one is is just it, it's the GOAT.
• 11:27
  It's it's it's. Scream at the star, isn't it?
• 11:30
  And the star exploding. Something exciting is coming,
• 11:36
  yes. Absolutely yes.
• 11:38
  Yeah. And it's also that ending of it
• 11:40
  as well when you get that massive like boom and, and the
• 11:43
  screen goes white as well. It's, it's just kind of really,
• 11:47
  really kind of sets the sets the tone that you've seen something
• 11:49
  really, really exciting. So perfect for a cliffhanger as
• 11:52
  well, isn't it? That scream that, Yeah.
• 11:55
  Yeah. Can I ask how old you was when
• 11:58
  you watched Dark of Infinity for the first time?
• 12:00
  Yeah, I, I was working it out today.
• 12:02
  I, I think I was, I was just about five years old.
• 12:07
  You heard it here first, folks. At five years old, the Ergon is
• 12:11
  terrifying, OK? Don't listen to our cynical
• 12:14
  adults. It really is.
• 12:15
  But, but I mean, that's the thing, because it's like, I, I
• 12:18
  think like because I was quite young, I, I think I, I can only
• 12:23
  remember kind of like snippets of stuff, but I can remember,
• 12:27
  you know, fast forwarding on a year and being absolutely
• 12:31
  terrified of the dialects in, in resurrection and, and of, of, of
• 12:34
  the dialects. Help me.
• 12:37
  I, I, I because what's happening to me?
• 12:41
  But it wasn't I, I didn't really, that didn't scare me.
• 12:46
  It was the fact that there were the Daleks and, and I remember
• 12:48
  mum, mum sent me up to, to bed after watching it and the
• 12:53
  landing light, the bulb had gone.
• 12:56
  My dad was out and, and we were all too short to reach.
• 13:00
  So so I had to go to bed in the dark thinking that there.
• 13:05
  Was a you could hear? Was that heartbeat done, done,
• 13:07
  done. It was just like imagination
• 13:10
  fuel. So I yeah.
• 13:11
  So. So, you know, I've got a lot of
• 13:13
  love for this. It's just, it's just brilliant.
• 13:16
  And you know this. Isn't this is 2 for two then?
• 13:18
  For like, I loved it when I was a kid and I still love it now.
• 13:23
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:24
  Oh well, Paul, are we going to make it free for free?
• 13:29
  I think we are, yeah. Basically when I was going to
• 13:34
  prepare for this, I thought, right, I'm going to write a
• 13:36
  really objective, objective appreciation of the era.
• 13:41
  And then I realised I couldn't because it is totally
• 13:43
  subjective. It is exactly because I was at
• 13:47
  the right age, the right time for it all to via my
• 13:51
  imagination. I'd come along to Doctor Who
• 13:55
  with the repeat of Destiny of the Daleks in 1980.
• 13:59
  Love season 18, absolutely amazing love.
• 14:02
  Tom and Lala still think they're perfect.
• 14:05
  But then I got to the by through that period, I was absorbing all
• 14:10
  the history of Doctor Who and everything.
• 14:11
  And then suddenly come 1982, I was ready for this new this new
• 14:18
  take on Doctor Who. And I didn't know what it's
• 14:20
  going to be. And I was a bit like, oh, we're
• 14:21
  going to miss Tom. We're going to miss.
• 14:23
  I still miss Ramana. And then Castro Balva came along
• 14:28
  and it's like, yeah, OK. And then I was just drawn along.
• 14:32
  And my appreciation for the show during that period just grew and
• 14:36
  grew and grew. By the end of season 21, I was,
• 14:38
  like, utterly obsessed, you know?
• 14:41
  I mean. You're still here today, right?
• 14:43
  And yeah, I'm still here now, and it is still that era that I
• 14:46
  will go back to again and again and again.
• 14:49
  I can watch over and over again, yeah.
• 14:52
  Is it a comfort era? Absolutely.
• 14:55
  And it takes me back. I mean, certain stories,
• 14:58
  especially, I mean the ones that got the musical score by Paddy
• 15:02
  Kingsland or Peter Howell. When I hear those scores, I it
• 15:07
  takes me back to like the first time I saw those stories and I
• 15:11
  can feel how I felt at the time. It's so powerful that that
• 15:15
  connection it makes. I can't always.
• 15:17
  Remember, you know, like images. But when I think of a story like
• 15:20
  The Visitation, I can hear that music.
• 15:24
  Absolutely. Pastor Alva was on just after I
• 15:30
  started secondary school. It's like the second term of
• 15:32
  secondary school, but I hear some of the music in that first
• 15:35
  episode when he's doing the cricketing thing, and it takes
• 15:38
  me back to that school and so does Morden Undead.
• 15:41
  It's exactly the same. It's like.
• 15:43
  Oh, you don't go round going. When I'm driving the car all the
• 15:48
  time. Are you still on the teacher's
• 15:51
  car? Yeah.
• 15:52
  Do you ever hear the strings? You know, when Castro fell?
• 15:54
  When they're going around the forests.
• 15:59
  Oh, that's so vividly. Yeah.
• 16:03
  Well, the. I mean, I think we should all
• 16:06
  bow to Lucid Jenkins, the only person on this call with a
• 16:10
  podcast devoted to the 5th Doctor.
• 16:13
  If he had not been here, we would have had an omission.
• 16:16
  Luke, the heir of the 5th Doctor.
• 16:20
  It's the first era I've seen from start to finish.
• 16:25
  That seems weird now, but like in the wilderness, you get what
• 16:28
  you get. And just look at the BB CS
• 16:31
  release schedule. I'm looking at my Blu Rays right
• 16:33
  now and I'm just gratified that they're releasing the Davison
• 16:39
  era in order unlike all the any of the other doctors.
• 16:42
  Let's do season 26, then season 24, then season 25 because that
• 16:46
  makes sense. So it's very hard to watch
• 16:48
  anything in order. The ABC in Australia decided,
• 16:52
  let's repeat these at 5:30 in the morning.
• 16:55
  And I wasn't as dumb then as I am now.
• 16:58
  So I, I just set the tape and I would watch them after school or
• 17:01
  before school whenever I could. So yeah, it was a, and that I
• 17:06
  think that was a big deal for me, being able to see a complete
• 17:10
  era, just the whole journey of, of one Doctor rather than
• 17:14
  whatever I could get my hands on.
• 17:16
  And I like that there was another Aussie in the TARDIS.
• 17:19
  Australia is a huge fan base for Doctor Who.
• 17:22
  Only one Australian companion. I'm like, yeah, that's, that
• 17:27
  makes sense. And that's, that's great.
• 17:29
  But yeah, it's not only an era. I think that's that's stuck with
• 17:33
  me, not just, you know, for re Roches and my imagination.
• 17:39
  It's also one that continues to kind of be a positive thing in
• 17:45
  my life. Like it's not just the podcast
• 17:48
  that's great, but it's pretty much just an excuse to, you
• 17:52
  know, make Doctor Who friends and have a conversation and all
• 17:55
  that kind of stuff. And the Peter Davidson here has
• 17:57
  been a big part of a big part of that.
• 18:00
  So yeah, it's, it's been great. Like there's like I think having
• 18:06
  almost completed at least one time every TV story with and
• 18:14
  having to write notes on them, I can only honestly say that I
• 18:18
  only found one story fucking boring when I had to name.
• 18:23
  And shame. Oh.
• 18:24
  Dude, I did it with you. I.
• 18:26
  Was awkward. Infinity.
• 18:28
  Sorry, Dad. Come on guys.
• 18:31
  Hey I I did say quite a few nice things about it you you did to
• 18:35
  be, but it was the only one that I found to be not as enjoyable
• 18:42
  to watch and take notes on at the same time.
• 18:46
  So it's now at the bottom of my list of Davidson's I didn't
• 18:51
  realise I had at 1 and it turns out no, I do.
• 18:56
  So yeah, it's. But apart from that, I love
• 18:59
  what's and all I love a lot of the side characters.
• 19:02
  You've probably heard me talk about Captain Stapley.
• 19:05
  So it's probably a good idea that Time Flight was not a very
• 19:08
  well considered story because if it was in this.
• 19:12
  Surprising Luke. It's still straight to come
• 19:13
  Hamster. It's surprising that wasn't a
• 19:15
  winner that year. So yeah, there's heaps of
• 19:19
  characters, like everyone from frontiers, kind of pups range
• 19:25
  brazen, you know, like I I always get a kick at a kind of
• 19:31
  full Ford of doomsday. I don't know, I know it's not
• 19:34
  well regarded, but just like the I watched that when I was a kid
• 19:38
  and I was like, wow, it's starting like a 60 story would
• 19:41
  with them all kind of going out and about and things like that.
• 19:44
  So yeah, I also think that even though people can be like Eric
• 19:49
  Saywood likes his mercenaries and that's all this era is, I, I
• 19:54
  disagree. The tone's probably darker, but
• 19:56
  I think he's got a little bit more of a magical streak than
• 19:59
  you think he does because he didn't have to sign off on
• 20:02
  enlightenment or a snake dance and things like that.
• 20:05
  So. All right, if you, if he's
• 20:08
  writing them, he's making them bleak.
• 20:11
  Stories about mercenaries. Anyway, they can be quite fun.
• 20:14
  Litened. And what's that fabulous one in
• 20:16
  Revelation of the Daleks? I know that's another era.
• 20:18
  William Gaunt's character. Oh, Mercilessini.
• 20:21
  Great. Yeah.
• 20:24
  Yeah, I can get that. But sorry about the flight.
• 20:28
  It's like that Breaking Bad episode in the garage right now.
• 20:31
  So yeah, it's it's it's an era that's been, I mean, I think the
• 20:38
  biggest thing that's been stuck in my imagination are those two
• 20:41
  people who never turn up in Doctor Who in any way, shape or
• 20:45
  form, ever. And they're just playing this
• 20:48
  weird board game in the dark places inside.
• 20:51
  And it stayed with me since I was 10 years old to now and
• 20:55
  beyond. So yeah, well, this is long
• 20:58
  winded as fuck as fuck. I love it.
• 20:59
  It's it's my favorite. It's the best.
• 21:01
  I love it when a new episode of the Mara and Chess Club pops up
• 21:04
  because then those two people go bop straight to the top of my
• 21:07
  podcast feed. You know, I see them every time.
• 21:09
  I've never spent so much time with those people, Joe.
• 21:12
  I had to look, I was looking back at this era today and I and
• 21:15
  I my immediate impression when I think of the 5th Doctor's era is
• 21:18
  uneven. If I don't know if anyone said
• 21:20
  that earlier, it's like, you know, there is like a couple
• 21:22
  every year where I'm like Forza, Doomsday Time Flight, Arkham
• 21:26
  Infinity, the King's Demons. But then I was, I was having a
• 21:29
  proper think and I was like, yeah, but every year there's
• 21:33
  like fun stories like The Visitation, like I really think
• 21:38
  Morden Undead's great fun and I love Planet Fire.
• 21:42
  And then there's bangers every year as well.
• 21:44
  Kinder, Castro, Valva, Enlightenment, Snake Dance, The
• 21:49
  Five Doctors. I mean, I think resurrection is
• 21:52
  a banger, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
• 21:54
  Caves of Androsani, Planet of fire Again, Paul, sorry, I have
• 21:59
  a feeling you're going for that one today.
• 22:01
  Frontios God. Amazing.
• 22:03
  I might surprise you. So, and the thing that really
• 22:07
  sort of struck me as like a what's this era got?
• 22:11
  I think there's big ideas this era.
• 22:13
  I'm sort of thinking about the the high concepts.
• 22:15
  Castro Valva's got huge high concepts.
• 22:19
  Terminus does Mordred undead does Mordred undead is about
• 22:22
  suicide for God's sakes. And being in two time zones.
• 22:25
  Enlightenment man, huge high concept there.
• 22:29
  Yeah. So I I think if Saywood's award
• 22:33
  help me out. Saywood, thank.
• 22:35
  You correct me if I get it wrong.
• 22:37
  Please I I don't articulate it in in in my head.
• 22:42
  That clearly, but I'm I'm sort of mindful of it a little.
• 22:45
  If, if there's an uneven sort of, I don't think there's a lack
• 22:50
  of ideas and I think people think that there are, but I, I
• 22:53
  think there's, there's some really creative stuff happening
• 22:56
  this year. This is this is what I meant by
• 22:58
  varied in my one word, so many different types of story.
• 23:02
  You didn't know what was coming. The next you'd have one thing
• 23:05
  that you'd have kinder one week with the, you know, the deep
• 23:09
  meaningful stuff. And then next week it was a
• 23:12
  there the traditional black. Sorry, what's my words?
• 23:16
  The visitation. And then the following week it
• 23:19
  was the historical black. And then the next week it was
• 23:21
  the action thriller. Yeah, Shot, you know.
• 23:23
  Every time flight the absolute. Time flight.
• 23:27
  But you know what can you do you?
• 23:29
  Mustn't mourn on. This so Chris Crispin boys the
• 23:32
  best guest characters ever and I do.
• 23:35
  I genuinely think the Davison era improves as it goes along.
• 23:39
  I think 19 is strong. I think 20 is really quite
• 23:44
  solid. I was having an argument with
• 23:45
  James Lark the other day doing a commentary on Morden Undead and
• 23:49
  he was going to be no, you're wrong.
• 23:50
  I'm going to tell you why Season 20 is great.
• 23:52
  And he did. I sat and listened to him in 15
• 23:54
  minutes. I'm convinced.
• 23:55
  But 21, I think, you know, you get the awakening, you get
• 23:58
  Frontiers, you get Resurrection of the dialects, Planet of Fire,
• 24:01
  Case of Androzani. I don't think there's anything
• 24:03
  less than like 8 out of 10 there.
• 24:05
  And that's a good strong run for the 80s.
• 24:07
  So pleasantly surprised was is how I feel about the 5th Doctors
• 24:12
  era when I go back and think about it properly and stop being
• 24:16
  me, which is I thought I should do more often.
• 24:21
  Well, a big task ahead of us now, right?
• 24:26
  Three stories, three stories did not make it through to the
• 24:32
  winners of their years. We had Earth Shock, The Five
• 24:36
  Doctors and The Case of Andrazani and we're going to do
• 24:39
  a round Robin now in round one and you got to choose one of
• 24:43
  those stories and there there's five of us.
• 24:46
  So I'm assuming there will be a consensus somewhere with three
• 24:49
  stories. What is going to be kicked
• 24:52
  forward into round two? And join the winners to find the
• 24:56
  ultimate 5th Doctor story. And let's shake up the direction
• 25:00
  again. And let's start with Dan.
• 25:06
  OK, now I think there are probably 2 sensible choices here
• 25:15
  and I'm guessing that those would be both of Shock and Caves
• 25:21
  of Anjazzani. You know, both have sort of got
• 25:24
  that they're gritty and they're grown up and for the most part,
• 25:29
  the production values are amazing.
• 25:31
  Unfortunately you have things like, yeah, the Magma Beast,
• 25:34
  which kind of let the side down a little bit and, and again, you
• 25:38
  know, going back to the music, they've both got cracking
• 25:41
  soundtracks for, for those. But I, I, I can kind of marvel
• 25:52
  at those being 2 excellent examples, not only of Davos era,
• 25:58
  but also also of 80s Doctor Who and then widen it out the whole
• 26:03
  of Doctor Who. But I rarely want to watch them.
• 26:09
  They then they, they kind of, they don't give me the, the fun
• 26:14
  escapism that I want from my Doctor Who.
• 26:17
  So in a long winded kind of way, I'm going to go for the five,
• 26:22
  the five doctors. I would have said that was the
• 26:25
  obvious choice, but. I I well, I mean, if you think
• 26:30
  about like the Doctor Who magazine poll, then, you know,
• 26:33
  Earth Shock and caves Evangelizani are always in like
• 26:36
  what the the top ten, maybe the top 20.
• 26:41
  Yeah. So I mean, like again, it's,
• 26:44
  it's another story that I have vague snippets of and I think
• 26:49
  most of those were kind of around the, the scenes with the
• 26:52
  Cybermen. I love, I love the Cybermen.
• 26:53
  So they, they kind of stayed in, in my mind, but I can, but also
• 26:58
  I've, I've got the nostalgia of I can remember buying the, the
• 27:04
  VHS. I, I can remember even where I
• 27:07
  what town I was in, what shop I bought it in, you know, which
• 27:12
  must have been about 9192. I think I picked that one up and
• 27:16
  then later on we had the the the all singing, all dancing special
• 27:20
  edition version that came out with the King's demons.
• 27:23
  I remember picking that up. I skived off of art college and
• 27:28
  went went into John Menchies to to buy that.
• 27:31
  So so it just feels like there's lots of nostalgia kind of
• 27:35
  wrapped up in the five doctors for me.
• 27:38
  But, but again, I think, you know, you've got to, you've kind
• 27:42
  of, I think then you've got to kind of break it down.
• 27:44
  What, what are those magical elements for, for me?
• 27:47
  And again, Peter Howell's music for this is, is absolutely stand
• 27:54
  out. It's, it's one of the finest
• 27:59
  compositions of, of Doctor Who music throughout all of time.
• 28:05
  You know, you've got that sort of twinkly, sparkly kind of
• 28:09
  opening scene with in the with the TARDIS console and and it
• 28:14
  riffs on the Doctor Who theme tune as well through that.
• 28:17
  Then you've got that sort of there's like, almost like a, a
• 28:20
  sort of soaring beauty to the, to the music for the eye of Ryan
• 28:24
  bit, you know, and then you've got all of those sort of strange
• 28:30
  and haunting, kind of like Celtic kind of horns, which
• 28:34
  really match that kind of the rugged scenery of the death
• 28:37
  Zone. And, and then you've got those
• 28:40
  very different variations of like the Cyberman theme and, and
• 28:44
  it's, it's just just absolutely brilliant.
• 28:47
  Then on top of that, you've got all of those wonderful visuals.
• 28:50
  You know, the, the location work.
• 28:54
  It's, it's kind of weird that that Doctor Who in, in the 80s
• 28:57
  didn't go to North Wales more than, than, than it did because
• 29:03
  it, it kind of, it kind of feels like, again, it's got that sort
• 29:05
  of like of the world type kind of vibe going on.
• 29:09
  You know, you've got, you know, you've got that beautiful stone
• 29:13
  archway with the, with the, the Ivy hanging down for, for the
• 29:16
  Ivor iron. You know, then it's really
• 29:21
  beautiful. That bit where I think it's the
• 29:24
  third Doctor and Sarah Jane are being chased by pursued by the
• 29:28
  Cybermen and you've got all of that lovely burnt orange bracken
• 29:32
  and the sort of skeletal trees, you know, And then you've kind
• 29:38
  of, you know that that rugged stone quarry as well with the,
• 29:44
  the Raston worry worry. But they're kind of, you know,
• 29:49
  patiently waiting to butcher all of those Cybermen, you know, and
• 29:54
  it and it all kind of like is built up because you've all got
• 29:57
  this wonderful Welsh weather of mist and rain and, and all that
• 30:01
  sort of thing. And it just kind of makes the
• 30:04
  death zone a really believable kind of kind of location.
• 30:09
  What else have you got? You've got you've you've got all
• 30:12
  of that banter between the doctors.
• 30:14
  I know it kind of it was something that kind of started
• 30:17
  in the third Doctors, but you really get it kind of ramped up,
• 30:21
  you know, here because you've got more doctors than than than
• 30:24
  than you had in the past. And I just think some of that,
• 30:27
  some of the interchanges between, you know, Troughton and
• 30:31
  Pertwee in particular are just, they're just so, so, so good.
• 30:36
  It's, I think probably 1 of Anthony Ainley's finest
• 30:41
  performances of the Master. He's having so much fun.
• 30:46
  You know, I, I think like one thing that does let it down is
• 30:50
  all those scenes set on Gallifrey.
• 30:52
  But the, the scenes in Gallifrey where you have the Master in it
• 30:57
  are just superb. The way he's chuckling to
• 30:59
  himself that he's been lined up to save the Doctor for once.
• 31:04
  Yeah, it's, it's just just just so amazing, you know, kind of
• 31:08
  thing. And I, and I think like,
• 31:09
  obviously it, it's the ultimate JNT shopping list ideas, isn't
• 31:16
  it? And I think you you've really
• 31:19
  got a pack Terrence Dicks on the back, because I don't think
• 31:23
  there would have been any other writer that would have been able
• 31:27
  to pull all of these strands together in the sort.
• 31:30
  Of code changing the shopping list.
• 31:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically longest shopping.
• 31:35
  List ever. Oh, no.
• 31:37
  I think Chippers wrote a slightly longer one for Power of
• 31:40
  the Doctor, but that was yeah. Yeah, possibly, you know,
• 31:43
  because because even like the the great Robert Holmes bailed
• 31:46
  out on this because it because it, you know, but but you know,
• 31:49
  you want a real safe pair of hands and and Terence Dicks
• 31:53
  really rises to the challenge. And you know, I think like
• 31:58
  obviously we've had lots of multiple doctor stories, not
• 32:01
  just on TV, but like Big Finish have done like 1,000,001.
• 32:05
  But this is this is the daddy, you know, kind of thing, you
• 32:09
  know, blows everything else out of the water.
• 32:14
  So yeah, I want to, I want to go for the five doctors.
• 32:17
  I'm going to put that through to the to the final.
• 32:20
  Well, I'm convinced, but I'm sure I'm going to be convinced
• 32:23
  three other Times Now as well. Paul, you got 3 to choose from.
• 32:29
  Right. Well, I think they're all great
• 32:35
  and I do like the five doctors and I hear what you say.
• 32:38
  But for me it's, although it is a Davison story, he's sharing it
• 32:42
  with other doctors and although he's doing that very
• 32:44
  magnanimously, it still diminishes his part in it.
• 32:49
  So I don't think it's the story to represent Davos.
• 32:55
  You've got 2 to choose from then.
• 33:00
  A Caves of Andazani, I think is excellent television, but do I
• 33:06
  think it's Doctor Who? I don't know.
• 33:08
  I think it may go go a bit too far.
• 33:12
  And therefore I want to champion Earth shock.
• 33:16
  And that's mainly from nostalgic reasons.
• 33:21
  I think the years have diluted the shock of Earth shock.
• 33:24
  But back at the time when you saw that, I mean, shock doesn't
• 33:30
  even begin to to cover it. See what I mean?
• 33:36
  That's them. I recognize that sound.
• 33:39
  Those are the things that attacked you, yes.
• 33:41
  Do you know why? No, there isn't a reason
• 33:44
  whoever's controlling the androids thinks there is.
• 34:00
  Destroy them. Destroy them at once.
• 34:05
  Everyone's nodding. I remember.
• 34:08
  I remember seeing the credits go up with the, with the broken up
• 34:12
  badge in it and just being, I mean, I think I was 8 or 9 at
• 34:15
  the time. And that was the first time I'd
• 34:18
  watched. We did watch TV dramas, but we
• 34:21
  didn't watch sort of soaps or anything like that.
• 34:23
  So that was the first time I'd seen an episode of a television
• 34:27
  program with a regular character that had died that I liked.
• 34:32
  So it was, yeah. And and they and they hit you
• 34:35
  with they hit you with two because.
• 34:37
  It's 2 shocks. Yeah, you have the Cybermen, the
• 34:39
  Cybermen, don't you? And you know, you haven't seen
• 34:42
  them since like the 70s and then ADRIC at the end.
• 34:46
  Yeah. So yeah.
• 34:47
  Yeah, so I'd only seen the Cybermen in pictures before
• 34:50
  that, you know, that's all they were.
• 34:51
  And suddenly there they were at the end of the episode,
• 34:53
  instantly recognised them, obviously.
• 34:55
  And Oh my God, this is so exciting.
• 34:58
  And the whole story was just so, so energetic after season 19 had
• 35:02
  been quite gentle, I guess in its storytelling.
• 35:06
  Then suddenly along comes Earth shockwave, bam bam bam.
• 35:09
  And it doesn't doesn't go too far like some of the later
• 35:14
  Saywood ones I think may do you. Leave Resurrection of the Daleks
• 35:18
  alone, right? You know, I love the
• 35:20
  resurrection of the Daleks, but I did at the time, certainly.
• 35:26
  But yeah, here I think it's just the right level, it's right
• 35:28
  level of drama, action. It doesn't go too far.
• 35:34
  The Cybermen are great in it. I think they're at the most
• 35:37
  powerful or certainly for the 80s and probably before 70s as
• 35:41
  well. Yeah.
• 35:45
  So I just think it all works. I mean, even the TARDIS crew
• 35:49
  bickering at the beginning works in this respect because it pays
• 35:53
  off at the end when they lose one of them.
• 35:55
  They realise how much they actually do care for each other.
• 35:59
  It's but for once it actually, you know, works in contexts of
• 36:03
  the story. Yeah.
• 36:06
  And I, I know it splits opinion, but I love Beryl Reed.
• 36:10
  I think it's amazing. I think it's amazing piece of
• 36:12
  casting. And I love the fact that Beryl
• 36:14
  Reed and June Bland are the two lead, you know, the two Wing
• 36:18
  Commander, the freighter, two women, some of the soldiers,
• 36:20
  like the officers of the soldier women.
• 36:23
  And that's really unusual for the time.
• 36:25
  So kind of progressive as well. Is she pissed?
• 36:30
  Position your men on the walkway, Mr. Ringway.
• 36:32
  I mean, she's just. No, just pissed off I think.
• 36:35
  Oh. Yes, yes, she's definitely that.
• 36:38
  Yeah, So at the time, it was utterly, utterly thrilling.
• 36:42
  And you knew the stakes were high, they felt high.
• 36:45
  But you obviously you weren't used to a companion being killed
• 36:48
  off. And when that happened, I can
• 36:51
  remember sitting there silent as as well as the credits being
• 36:55
  silent. I can remember later that night
• 36:59
  my mum coming and checking on me because I've gone all quiet and
• 37:03
  you know that stuck in my mind all this time.
• 37:07
  Look. So I think it deserves a place
• 37:28
  in the final. My mum was a a harsh cowbag, you
• 37:31
  know, when that happened and the silence credits ran and she was
• 37:35
  in the room and she went, Well, it's a tribute to Adric.
• 37:37
  I went. Thanks, Mum.
• 37:39
  Yeah. She's let me be.
• 37:40
  Sad, right? Well, look, come on now.
• 37:43
  I'm not going to have you go laugh this time.
• 37:45
  What's your choice? Look.
• 37:50
  I just want to point out something with both Earth Shock
• 37:53
  and the Caves of Andrew Zani, and that's the directors of both
• 37:58
  of those stories took two musicians that I thought were
• 38:03
  kind of shit, Malcolm Clark and Roger Lim, and listen to the
• 38:08
  music in those two stories. It's friggin awesome.
• 38:11
  So you know that. And that was Malcolm Clark's
• 38:14
  first time doing music since the Sea Devils.
• 38:17
  We all, you know, think about the music in that.
• 38:20
  And now you got bam, bam, bam bam bam.
• 38:24
  Amazing. And with Andrew Zani, you've got
• 38:29
  someone whose music I could never fully remember doing kind
• 38:33
  of like awesome military kind of drum stuff that's been
• 38:36
  percussion things that's going off all these Davisons running
• 38:39
  off from, from mercenaries and and things I do.
• 38:45
  I do love the Five Doctors and God, I can't believe this.
• 38:51
  Yeah, it's the Five Doctors for me.
• 38:55
  Because you've just indoctrinated yourself with 500
• 38:58
  episodes about it. I think, I think Paul's writing
• 39:05
  that it might not be the the best like in terms of, hey, it's
• 39:11
  all Davison all the time and you get a really good snapshot of of
• 39:14
  his doctor, but I think it's a good snapshot of him.
• 39:18
  And he's like that he he'll be like this in the five Doctors as
• 39:22
  he is in every story. And that is been a pretty
• 39:26
  generous dude. I feel like.
• 39:28
  I don't know if he feels like that, but when you watch the
• 39:30
  Field 5 Doctors, I feel like Peter Davidson, so comfortable,
• 39:34
  at least at where he is, you know, on Doctor Who, he doesn't
• 39:39
  like mind these big personalities coming in and
• 39:43
  chewing the scenery and things like that.
• 39:46
  So I feel like the five Doctors, maybe not for the Davidson's
• 39:50
  Doctor, but for Peter Davidson himself, I think it shows that
• 39:53
  kind of really UN, unselfish side that he has.
• 39:56
  And I, I, and you know, he does get to play the harp and get
• 40:00
  hypnotized and figure some stuff out.
• 40:02
  So, you know, he gets to do enough, gets to pretend.
• 40:06
  And I used to be, thank God or whatever he says at the end.
• 40:11
  And it's got one of his trademark fantastic final lines.
• 40:16
  You know, you know, why not? After all, that is how it
• 40:19
  started. So it is a big deal for me this
• 40:23
  this story now, Andrew Zani's like the first Davis that I ever
• 40:27
  see ever. And it stays with me and I will
• 40:31
  maintain that it is still the best final story for a for a
• 40:35
  doctor ever. But and it's and it's probably
• 40:41
  and it's funnier than all of you remember that it is so put, put,
• 40:46
  keep that in the back of your mind next time you watch it.
• 40:48
  It's hilarious. It's bleakly hilarious.
• 40:50
  Yeah. Eric Saywood wishes he could do
• 40:53
  some of that dialogue. Like I I swear he does like
• 40:55
  well. Dumb.
• 40:56
  It's really good. Suppose you started in the
• 40:58
  ranks, Sir. But, but there is only one story
• 41:01
  I ever considered for the Marin Chess Club to be like a
• 41:06
  celebration of this would be pretty good.
• 41:08
  Oh, I've got 3 versions of it. There's a target, there's a
• 41:10
  5:00-ish Doctors and five Companions audio.
• 41:13
  Oh, that's a whole bunch of episodes I get a different
• 41:15
  person on each week. I can do a commentary as well.
• 41:18
  It was 7 or was it 8? Someone will send me a letter
• 41:22
  and let me know. You don't do that about a story
• 41:24
  you don't like. And I know I might have said
• 41:26
  mixed things on it, and that's because it's one of those things
• 41:30
  I wore out when I was young. But I, I also would say that
• 41:35
  this, the five doctors, I haven't touched on directional
• 41:39
  performances or anything like that yet, but it's, it was a
• 41:43
  gateway for me because this is the, one of the earliest VH s s
• 41:46
  I ever owned. Maybe like the second or third
• 41:50
  one. And whilst I'd seen other things
• 41:52
  from the video store or whatever, this is The Avengers.
• 41:55
  I got so many different avenues of Doctor Who I don't have from
• 42:00
  anywhere else that it was just oh, who, who, who's this sure,
• 42:07
  lady, I don't know who that is or, you know, all this kind of
• 42:10
  stuff. So I got to and I got to
• 42:14
  experience like so much of Doctor Who, but with that kind
• 42:18
  of 80s Peter Davidson feel. Now, I love Tegan in this.
• 42:23
  She's having a blast. Hey, she's learned from.
• 42:27
  She must have read the maths book that Adric gave her because
• 42:30
  she's known all about pie and stuff.
• 42:32
  I don't know. What pie do the line?
• 42:34
  Look like the time. Which line?
• 42:39
  You know which line just before the door goes up.
• 42:43
  Oh come on, it's the best line in the episode.
• 42:46
  Fuck that Holmesian dialogue. Give me it's an entry coder
• 42:52
  anytime. Never seen someone so excited.
• 42:56
  Look if she was an inferno and and she saw the friggin garage
• 43:00
  door going up losing her mind she she's dropping her panties
• 43:04
  for the pertweed for sure. Sorry.
• 43:08
  Look at some Jenkins, behave yourself.
• 43:12
  But it's it's, it's great fun. It's a story that I was able to
• 43:18
  get a lot out of, maybe not in terms of like, here's what it
• 43:23
  means and things like that. And it's a it's probably the
• 43:26
  story with the most holes in it that I think I have the most
• 43:30
  respect for in classic Doctor Who, mostly because of the of
• 43:37
  the juggling it it took to kind of make all of that work.
• 43:41
  Yeah. All right.
• 43:43
  Some of those Gallifrey bits look a bit shit and oh, they're
• 43:46
  wonderful. But Jericho and Jericho's really
• 43:50
  not a great actor. But do you want him to do a
• 43:52
  serious reading of. No, not the mind probe.
• 43:54
  No. Come on, man.
• 43:55
  Cut, print. Perfect.
• 43:58
  Let's go with that. So yeah, it's it has to be.
• 44:03
  I love Earth Shock. In the case of Andrazani.
• 44:06
  They're both great stories. They, they really are.
• 44:11
  But I have to go there. I have to go with the one that
• 44:16
  it's kind of been one of the biggest parts of my Doctor Who
• 44:21
  fandom and maybe any other story there is.
• 44:24
  So, yeah, yeah. First time on a strictly
• 44:29
  overview for a doctor. You know where I've had all the
• 44:31
  participants going. Why the hell did these three
• 44:34
  stories make it as runners up? You know, everyone's agreeing
• 44:37
  that straight now, Lucy, I'm going to put you in a bit of an
• 44:39
  impossible position here because I'm going to go next.
• 44:44
  And which means you're going to get the casting vote on this one
• 44:47
  because my, my heart says go with the Five Doctors.
• 44:52
  Because like everybody else, it was one of my gateway stories
• 44:56
  into Doctor Who. But I don't want to listen to my
• 44:58
  heart. My brain is saying go with the
• 45:00
  Earth Shock or the case of Androsani.
• 45:03
  And I was sort of looking at the lists I made for the two.
• 45:05
  It's the same list like I've put #1 great surprises.
• 45:10
  Well, there's great surprises in Earth Shock and there's great
• 45:12
  surprises in the case of Androsani.
• 45:14
  The end of episode 1 of Androsani is amazing.
• 45:17
  So it's the end of episode 1 of Earth Shock.
• 45:21
  Then I'll put the direction and the direction is slick and
• 45:24
  polished, beautiful visues. They bring in great actors, so I
• 45:30
  can't really define them there. And then my third thing was that
• 45:32
  they're propulsive, full of suspense and have a great last
• 45:37
  episode. Well, unfortunately, both Earth
• 45:39
  Shock and the case of Androsani are propulsive, full of
• 45:42
  suspension and have a great last episode.
• 45:47
  So it all comes down to who dies best, Adric or the 5th Doctor or
• 45:58
  or which one had the best impact on me.
• 46:00
  Now case of Androsania of course gave me Colin Baker, my favorite
• 46:04
  Doctor Who of all time. That would be a bit of 1/2 assed
• 46:07
  compliment though if I went for that reason in the 5th Doctor
• 46:10
  overview. But I'm actually going to go for
• 46:13
  a shock because that death of Adric really flawed me.
• 46:18
  When I first saw it and I watched back the last five
• 46:21
  minutes of that and played out, I was Nisa going ADRIC.
• 46:25
  I didn't hear that loads in my bedroom.
• 46:28
  I was obsessed with that ending and it still it gives me the
• 46:33
  that horrible feeling in your gut episode 4 that you very
• 46:37
  rarely get in Doctor Who. It's when they leave Adric
• 46:41
  behind and you think, this is not going to end well.
• 46:46
  Something is wrong with this. This is not playing by the
• 46:48
  usual. Doctor, I still catch myself
• 46:50
  going ADRIC, get the fuck out of there, yeah.
• 46:54
  When he chooses to jump back out, you'll go, what are you
• 46:56
  doing? You're a twat till the end.
• 46:58
  Oh my God, you're going to die. Even when he's sort of dancing
• 47:02
  with that keyboard that he knows is about to spark away.
• 47:05
  It's just an amazing ending. We're still talking about it
• 47:08
  now. That ending and I think caves is
• 47:11
  just too obvious a choice and I genuinely think Earth Shock is a
• 47:14
  really well made bit of television, so I'm going for
• 47:18
  Earth Shock. That means 2 for Earth Shock and
• 47:21
  two for The Five Doctors, and it's all to play for Lucy
• 47:26
  McCall. OK, well then it's going to be
• 47:28
  Earth shock. I do.
• 47:32
  I do adore the Five Doctors. I really do adore it.
• 47:35
  But, and I, I completely recognise and acknowledge what
• 47:41
  you've all said about it in terms of the 5th doctor's role
• 47:45
  in it, But it's, it's a one off the five Doctors.
• 47:51
  It's, it's there have been other multi doctor stories before and
• 47:54
  afterwards, but the five doctors is, is, is just not something
• 47:59
  that's ever really happened before or since.
• 48:03
  And yes, I adore it, But I it, I think it kind of, I think it
• 48:08
  should stand on its own, separate from from the series
• 48:12
  that it was in and separate from because it was.
• 48:14
  Yeah. So I don't like the Caves of
• 48:17
  Andrazani. I don't like that it was my
• 48:19
  favorite Doctor's last story. Now I'm older, I don't like the
• 48:24
  way it positions Perry as an object of desire.
• 48:28
  I don't like that they don't use Christopher Gable's best assets,
• 48:33
  which are his ability to move because he's a dancer, and his
• 48:36
  face because he was absolutely beautiful.
• 48:40
  And that I don't like the stories and knock off of Phantom
• 48:43
  of the Opera. In a lot of ways, the the
• 48:46
  characters, the subsidiary characters.
• 48:49
  Robert Glennister is particularly good as this kind
• 48:51
  of greasy, horrible person. And of course, Elena Bron and
• 48:57
  the others. But it it just Earth Shock
• 48:59
  feels. Even though it did end with the
• 49:02
  death of one of my favorite characters, it had the Cybermen
• 49:06
  in it. I was more scared of the
• 49:07
  Cybermen than any other Doctor Who monster when I was a child.
• 49:12
  It's really strange. In my memory, there were lots of
• 49:16
  stories where people got captured and nearly turned into
• 49:19
  Cybermen. And then when I watched it back,
• 49:21
  there was only one and it was Litton, and it wasn't any of the
• 49:24
  companions. So I don't know, somehow that
• 49:26
  got into my head the, the threat of the Cybermen.
• 49:30
  So yeah, I, I, I, obviously I watched it the first time and
• 49:35
  Beryl Reed was clearly just the captain of a spaceship.
• 49:37
  Didn't make much an impression on me.
• 49:40
  What she get now, I think she's great.
• 49:42
  She's no, she's an older woman doing a difficult job cutting
• 49:46
  quarters where she can. And she's utterly fed up with
• 49:48
  the the incompetence, deliberate incompetence of her staff.
• 49:52
  The bit where she says she was looking forward to writing his
• 49:54
  obituary. It's hilarious.
• 49:58
  And yeah, I just, I think sometimes fans like to put on
• 50:04
  things about sort of they kind of merge what they think
• 50:07
  happened behind the scenes with what's on the screen.
• 50:10
  Oh, well, of course that person didn't know what they're doing.
• 50:13
  They're a professional actor. They knew what they were doing.
• 50:18
  They didn't. They might.
• 50:19
  Not does it because I think the actors like Peter Davidson's
• 50:21
  quite Ascalian of Barrel Reed and that says she doesn't find
• 50:24
  job, but she didn't have like he says it all the time.
• 50:26
  She didn't have a clue. So I think fan myth then becomes
• 50:30
  from those sort of hearsay stories.
• 50:32
  Yeah, yeah. That's funny though, because I
• 50:34
  think Sarah Sutton on Every Extra Big Finish say she didn't
• 50:38
  understand any things that she read.
• 50:41
  And I'm like I. Can't tell.
• 50:43
  You're better, Right. Like, and how many Doctor Who
• 50:45
  actors do that when you see extras, like.
• 50:48
  I had no idea what it is. So.
• 50:50
  Yeah. So I'm like, Darryl reads fine.
• 50:53
  Yeah, she makes me as. Much as I love Davidson's
• 50:56
  Doctor, he has made a career out of being sarcastic about he's
• 51:00
  Doctor Who and it kind of hurts my feelings because I really
• 51:04
  enjoy it and I don't want to think that the people who were
• 51:08
  making it hated making it and think it's all rubbish and that
• 51:13
  it's just like no leave it alone please leave it alone for me to
• 51:16
  enjoy. But anyway I of the two I would
• 51:20
  choose Earth Shock because it's action-packed.
• 51:23
  It has a thrilling ending although I didn't enjoy the
• 51:27
  ending at the time. It's got Cybermen in who are my
• 51:29
  scariest baddies so. My army awaits Dr. Oh, shock.
• 52:10
  That's what I love about Strictly Cam Hamster.
• 52:12
  You can knock out the five doctors in case of Androsani
• 52:15
  with one swing. Yes, of shock goes into round
• 52:19
  two then. Well guys, now we're going to do
• 52:22
  our first round of listeners comments then.
• 52:26
  Paul, thank you for reminding me because I'd completely forgot to
• 52:29
  do this. I'm surprised we managed to
• 52:31
  rally as many comments in one day if I'm honest.
• 52:34
  I loved that Paul, Paul in the group chats just like, hey, so
• 52:38
  are you just gonna do a pre record with the comments that
• 52:40
  save time and then I go over the blue sky 2 minutes ago.
• 52:44
  Hey, what do you call me? Were you looking for a job as an
• 52:51
  administrator? You know, there's a position
• 52:53
  going OK. Oh, yeah.
• 52:55
  So David Gillespie Pratt says the beige Dr. Maybe.
• 53:00
  But after Tom, that was needed someone more grounded and down
• 53:03
  to earth. An excellent actor, not always
• 53:06
  served by the best material, especially in his second season
• 53:09
  to be. But to be positive.
• 53:11
  There are lots of gems in this era, some cracking examples of
• 53:14
  Doctor Who. OK, Gavin says a very good actor
• 53:19
  who was let down by lacklustre second season Series 21 is miles
• 53:23
  better and he's best one going out on a high.
• 53:26
  Maybe Shooty should have hung around for a third season, Yes,
• 53:29
  but we're not talking about Shooty this evening.
• 53:33
  What is this season 28? It's good fucking enlightenment,
• 53:38
  Mordred, I'm dead and snake dance in it.
• 53:40
  What are you talking about? Everyone you've.
• 53:44
  You've got Snake Dance to play for in Round 2 if you want to,
• 53:47
  you know. No, I don't want to do Round 2.
• 53:51
  Okay. Paul Yeah, so Paul, Arthur says.
• 53:56
  I was 8 years old when the era began.
• 53:57
  So in many ways the 5th Doctor is my Doctor.
• 54:00
  Davison undeniably a great actor, and I have a real soft
• 54:03
  spot for his breathless, anxious performance.
• 54:06
  His stories can be overly violent or even worse, overly
• 54:10
  dull, but there are still plenty of highlights to enjoy.
• 54:14
  Overly dull? I wouldn't say dull.
• 54:16
  I mean not. Arc of Infinity is not dull.
• 54:20
  We've got those that starting off a porn movie down in a crypt
• 54:23
  at the start, haven't you? Oh.
• 54:26
  Pulling, chewing it up. It's great.
• 54:27
  I'm so sorry you've got the Fraser Gregory essay.
• 54:31
  Oh, you did this on purpose, did you?
• 54:32
  All right, Fraser, I'm not going to do any accents.
• 54:37
  For an actor who is so damn good as the Doctor, it's such a shame
• 54:42
  he has less bangers than most of his peers.
• 54:47
  I'm not sure I'd agree agree with that, because he is so
• 54:51
  good. He's quintessentially the
• 54:52
  Doctor, affable and likable and undoubtedly moral or remaining
• 54:57
  essentially alien when he's allowed to bring his Davison wit
• 55:02
  and dryness to the role he saw as he is the perfect antidote to
• 55:06
  the excesses of the bakers, the fabulous baked boys either side
• 55:10
  of him, and I find him uniformly great.
• 55:12
  Stand out stories such as Frontios, Andrazani, The
• 55:16
  Awakening Cast Revolver, and The Five Doctors show how wonderful
• 55:19
  he. Was as the doctor.
• 55:23
  And Gareth Eboli says. Who Who?
• 55:26
  Dad who? Yeah, I think, I think I vaguely
• 55:29
  know who that is, he says. Davison was the face of Doctor
• 55:34
  Who for me, before I knew what Doctor Who was.
• 55:38
  His photograph face would serenely beam from the target
• 55:41
  covers in the label, so for me he was always around and
• 55:45
  comforting in that view. His era is solid and sits
• 55:49
  alongside Pertway with the family nature of the regulars.
• 55:54
  The solidarity is continued in Davison's portrayal.
• 55:58
  The Doctor is competent if exasperated.
• 56:02
  The young old man in a young man's body thankfully never
• 56:05
  played out. Davidson has a solid gravitas.
• 56:09
  A scene against the Master Omega and the Cyber leader.
• 56:13
  There didn't need to be another way here.
• 56:16
  What a singer of the Last Line, Glenn Fitzgerald.
• 56:20
  Lovely, charming Glenn Fitzgerald says.
• 56:23
  I was absolutely devastated when Tom left, but I do believe he
• 56:26
  had his run. He'd run his course.
• 56:28
  And Peter was such a refreshing change.
• 56:30
  A lot of people are saying refreshing change much much like
• 56:34
  the end of Tom's era. I think Doctor 5 suffered from
• 56:37
  too many companions. But yes, some of the finest
• 56:39
  stories from my childhood and as a big cricket fan, I love the
• 56:43
  costume. Oh, Dale Smith says Davison was
• 56:46
  for a long time my Doctor and showed a strong performance
• 56:49
  could turn the tide of weakest scripts.
• 56:51
  He also had the benefit of being the Doctor before caves, meaning
• 56:55
  he got Saywood before he properly became Saywood.
• 56:58
  If he'd had a Cartmel or a Moffett, he'd still be the
• 57:01
  Doctor now. Andrew Toulon says a breath of
• 57:06
  fresh air. Much as I like Tom, I think his
• 57:09
  tenure had well and truly run its course.
• 57:11
  I also liked Fives vulnerability too.
• 57:14
  Have a breath of fresh air. A lot of people are saying that
• 57:16
  Andrew Toulon, I don't recognise the name, so hello and welcome
• 57:19
  to Strictly come out and stuff. That's really interesting
• 57:22
  because I've I love season 18. OK, So is it IIOAN?
• 57:29
  Is that Ian? Goin.
• 57:32
  Yolen. All right, so Yolen Morris
• 57:34
  writes strong, ambitious sci-fi ideas throughout, often failing
• 57:38
  short in execution. Well, it's every year a Doctor
• 57:40
  Who, isn't it? David Davis's Doctor just about
• 57:44
  works in context, but compared to other incarnations is a
• 57:49
  frustratingly passive lead saddled with the worst
• 57:52
  companions the show's ever had, giving him the idea as an
• 57:55
  ineffectual substitute teacher. Oh, it seemed that that one time
• 58:01
  where he killed everyone with Hexachrome.
• 58:03
  I guess I've seen him shoot. Passive.
• 58:05
  People in the freaking. Face point in the gun in
• 58:08
  Davros's face, for fuck's sake. Oh.
• 58:11
  Shoot's chameleon, he does he. Does the master?
• 58:16
  He kills the Master passive, right?
• 58:20
  Let's do a round Robin with one word to describe Yo and Morris.
• 58:23
  Right? I'll go first.
• 58:24
  No, I love you, Joan. Really.
• 58:26
  No, he's fine. OK yeah, so I've got a comment
• 58:33
  from Brendan Jones and he says I've often underrated Davison as
• 58:38
  the Doctor, but I find something new in his performances every
• 58:42
  time I watch them. He shines when written by
• 58:45
  Bidmeade, Bailey, Clegg and Grim Wade, time fight
• 58:49
  notwithstanding. His sarcasm was perhaps lost on
• 58:53
  me as a child, but it is wonderfully biting now.
• 58:56
  The era suffers from JNT and Saywood pulling in different
• 59:00
  directions. Neither is the villain but
• 59:03
  creatives who don't gel. But at least 70% of the stories
• 59:07
  are good or better, and we have Saywood to thank for continuing.
• 59:11
  Bid means interesting science concepts bolstered by Saywood's
• 59:16
  action adventure. You know, I never know what's
• 59:18
  coming with the comments. And that was mostly like hugely
• 59:22
  positive for the actor and the character, a bit mixed on the
• 59:27
  stories. And I think like some of us have
• 59:29
  been as well. But you know, generally positive
• 59:33
  because I'll tell you what, when I do Capaldi's one Dan, there
• 59:36
  were some proper berries in that, wasn't there?
• 59:41
  Yes, yes there were. Aside from Yo and Morris, who's
• 59:46
  on all of our hit lists now? Thank you very much, everybody.
• 59:51
  Oh my God, there's an Australian who's coming after you, at least
• 59:54
  for an episode of his podcast. Right?
• 59:56
  Well, let's go across then and why we're all here.
• 1:00:00
  The 5th Doctor himself. And let's go around and give our
• 1:00:05
  thoughts on Peter Davidson as the Doctor and the 5th Doctor as
• 1:00:09
  a character. And I would like to start with
• 1:00:13
  Paul. Can you start us off this time,
• 1:00:15
  Paul? I can if you want, yes.
• 1:00:19
  Peter Davidson. Great.
• 1:00:21
  I think he, well, yeah, he treated, treated the doctor as
• 1:00:24
  an acting role, which was a bit of a contrast to his, but
• 1:00:28
  certainly his immediate predecessor, probably his last
• 1:00:31
  two predecessors. So it was a different take and a
• 1:00:36
  more human take. I figure as a young kid you
• 1:00:40
  could actually identify with more than the other doctors.
• 1:00:43
  I mean, Tom Baker was slightly frightening as a kid.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah. Along came Peter Davidson and to
• 1:00:48
  someone actually. Yeah, I know.
• 1:00:49
  I like him. I could.
• 1:00:51
  I could spend time with this guy.
• 1:00:52
  You know, he, I think he's probably the blueprint for
• 1:00:58
  several of the modern Doctors. Tennant, Smith, Jodie, I think
• 1:01:05
  they've all got elements of Peter Davidson's performance in
• 1:01:10
  them. He actually showed some emotion
• 1:01:14
  at times. He actually showed, you know,
• 1:01:18
  when the compa, some of his companions left.
• 1:01:20
  He actually, you could see he was affected by it, unlike the
• 1:01:23
  cursory goodbyes we'd had through Tom's era.
• 1:01:28
  And then he was ready to sacrifice himself for his
• 1:01:31
  companions. I mean, Morden undead.
• 1:01:34
  Could you imagine that with Tom Baker?
• 1:01:36
  Let him die. Oh.
• 1:01:38
  I'm going to give up all my future regenerations.
• 1:01:43
  Just a different wonderful vulnerable.
• 1:01:46
  But yes, it's more human. And I know people want him to be
• 1:01:49
  an alien, but you also want to identify with him and that's
• 1:01:52
  what you could do. It was at its best.
• 1:01:57
  Obviously, I think people have said this before, written by
• 1:01:59
  Christopher H Bidmead, that I, I think he's obviously the guy who
• 1:02:05
  understood him the most. He obviously created the
• 1:02:08
  character and understood him. But also Peter Grimwade, Barbara
• 1:02:12
  Clegg, they seem to get what it was that made the character what
• 1:02:17
  he is. Yeah.
• 1:02:21
  So to sum it up, despite having come to the programme in Tom
• 1:02:28
  Baker's time, Peter Davison was my doctor.
• 1:02:32
  That's and if he can do that then it's great.
• 1:02:37
  Will he always be your doctor? I.
• 1:02:39
  Think so. I don't think anyone else is
• 1:02:41
  going to do better now. I'll see a round of all right
• 1:02:45
  now, no one else will be able to know this because it's a
• 1:02:47
  podcast, because I'll just see a round of hands.
• 1:02:49
  Is Peter Davison your Doctor 123?
• 1:02:53
  OK, everyone's got their hands up.
• 1:02:55
  Only me, but you know Martha. Colin.
• 1:02:59
  Well, let's go across next to Lucy.
• 1:03:06
  OK, so when I when I was a kid and watching a lot of the sort
• 1:03:10
  of sharper side of the doctor went over my head, I didn't
• 1:03:13
  really see it or understand it. But I think this is partly the
• 1:03:18
  reason why I still feel attracted to, to this doctor.
• 1:03:24
  And I don't mean attracted, attracted to, I mean he, he's a
• 1:03:27
  person, like Paul said, that you want to spend time with, that
• 1:03:30
  you like and admire and you want a bit and you want to spend time
• 1:03:33
  with. Because now I'm a bit older, I
• 1:03:36
  can see the sarcasm more clearly and the exasperation and the
• 1:03:41
  sort of slightly nervous energy that he gives off that I didn't
• 1:03:46
  necessarily notice the first time around when he was dashing
• 1:03:49
  around having adventures. The last, the first episode I
• 1:03:53
  remember watching of Doctor Who's, the last episode of
• 1:03:56
  Ligopolis. And I don't know whether I
• 1:03:58
  watched the rest of it. I, I suppose I must have done.
• 1:04:01
  I don't, I don't know, I just don't remember.
• 1:04:02
  But I remember very clearly the 4th Doctor falling off the thing
• 1:04:08
  and the Watcher and and then him becoming the 5th Doctor.
• 1:04:15
  But yeah, like I said, when I first when I watched it, I was
• 1:04:19
  very upset when he left and I think I only watched episode 1
• 1:04:23
  of The Twin Dilemma and then didn't watch the rest of it
• 1:04:25
  because it shocked me so much. Also taste Lucy.
• 1:04:29
  It was no, it was horrible. It was just horrible.
• 1:04:32
  Who was this shouty person who was strangling Perry?
• 1:04:35
  What the hell was that about? Why was he putting down my
• 1:04:39
  doctor? Yes, exactly.
• 1:04:40
  He was saying, he was saying home or too bad.
• 1:04:43
  Yeah. And all that feet.
• 1:04:45
  Exactly. And it's like, but I love that
• 1:04:47
  man. Oh, that thing you that thing
• 1:04:50
  you like now it's rubbish. Yeah, no, I but but still still
• 1:04:55
  now I still like his performance.
• 1:04:56
  I think he's I know that Davis had a sort of made a bit of a
• 1:04:59
  side career about being horrible about his performances and and
• 1:05:04
  and sarcastic about it and saying it was all a bit rubbish.
• 1:05:07
  And like I said, that kind of hurts, hurts my feeling a bit
• 1:05:09
  because I don't think it is. I think he his characterization
• 1:05:14
  has a lot more depth than he either gives himself credit to
• 1:05:19
  or pretends to not give himself credit.
• 1:05:21
  There are moments when you know that the doctor is at least
• 1:05:27
  seven steps ahead of everybody else and has suddenly realized
• 1:05:30
  what's happening and he's not letting on.
• 1:05:33
  But you know that he knows that something's going to go horribly
• 1:05:36
  wrong in a minute or he's realized what the situation is.
• 1:05:40
  And yeah, no, I just really, I find his version of the Doctor
• 1:05:46
  is the one that I'm still most drawn to, although I have now,
• 1:05:51
  having done a sort of proper rewatch, have a great deal of
• 1:05:54
  affection for the other classic Doctors.
• 1:05:58
  I feel a lot, a lot better about the 6th Doctor than I used to,
• 1:06:03
  shall we say. And yeah, but no, he's still,
• 1:06:08
  he's still my favorite. Dan, the 5th Doctor.
• 1:06:14
  Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's a, it was a really smart bit of
• 1:06:20
  casting on J and TS part because you've you've had seven years
• 1:06:26
  of, of, of Tom Baker and he was he, you know, the 4th Doctor is,
• 1:06:34
  is, is louder and, you know, larger than life and all, and
• 1:06:39
  all this sort of thing. So it was really, really, I
• 1:06:42
  think it was really clever to kind of bring in someone that
• 1:06:46
  was the polar opposite. Not just in looks, you know, the
• 1:06:51
  the the straight blonde hair. I mean, what 2020 years younger
• 1:06:55
  than Tom Baker. I would have said, you know,
• 1:06:59
  yeah, but but, but in, in that kind of like being much more
• 1:07:04
  quieter performance, much more natural kind of performance.
• 1:07:10
  I I think it kind of kind of works really well.
• 1:07:12
  And, and obviously he's kind of, I think someone pointed it out
• 1:07:16
  in in the comments, He's sandwiched between the two
• 1:07:19
  bakers who are very. Very loud, very big.
• 1:07:22
  And, and, and, and I think that's why sometimes perhaps
• 1:07:25
  people might come across you go, oh, he's a bit boring, always a
• 1:07:28
  bit beige. That is really not true.
• 1:07:32
  Because I'd better scribble out those notes then.
• 1:07:37
  You know, and, and it's, you know, when people talk about the
• 1:07:40
  best actors that have played the Doctor, they talk about Peter
• 1:07:45
  Capaldi, they talk about Patrick Trouten or obviously Tom Baker
• 1:07:49
  and all this sort of thing. They never talk about Peter
• 1:07:52
  Davison. But I, I think they do because I
• 1:07:57
  think he is one of the strongest actors to to have played the
• 1:08:00
  part and he's played it so differently to those around him
• 1:08:05
  as well. And, and I think, you know, it's
• 1:08:09
  sort of like he, he's, he's breathless and energetic, but
• 1:08:15
  but he's, he also gets sarky with, with, especially with his
• 1:08:19
  companions. You know, even though he he is
• 1:08:24
  this old person and a young person's body, he still has
• 1:08:28
  authority. He still faces down, you know,
• 1:08:32
  the villains kind of kind of head on.
• 1:08:35
  And I think it's sort of like, I think that is testament to, you
• 1:08:40
  know, Peter Davidson as an actor and the choices that he made.
• 1:08:44
  And, and, and I think by the time you get to like season 21,
• 1:08:50
  he is really in his pomp at this time.
• 1:08:52
  He, he, he, he knows exactly how he wants to play the doctor.
• 1:08:57
  And it's such a shame we didn't get a fourth season because I
• 1:09:01
  because I think he would have gone, he would have got even
• 1:09:03
  better. But but yeah, he, he, you know,
• 1:09:06
  he, I think he, it's, it's, it's just, he's just really amazing.
• 1:09:11
  And, and I, and I think it's also testament that, you know,
• 1:09:15
  like Tom Baker left being the Doctor and it was ages before he
• 1:09:23
  really, you know, it really hurt his career.
• 1:09:26
  He, you know, that. So there were a lot of actors
• 1:09:29
  that were the Doctor and then almost, almost, they kind of
• 1:09:33
  fell off the face of the earth. Whereas I think with, with Peter
• 1:09:36
  Davidson, I think like leaving the role didn't, didn't harm him
• 1:09:42
  at all. He, he, he, you know, he went on
• 1:09:44
  and he did lots and lots of stuff.
• 1:09:46
  He's still doing lots and lots of stuff.
• 1:09:49
  And, and I think with, you know, like a fine wine with age, he,
• 1:09:52
  he's kind of getting better as well, you know, because I, I,
• 1:09:56
  I've not seen many episodes of it, but the, the, the reboot of
• 1:10:00
  like the Darling Buds of May, he plays like a vicar in that.
• 1:10:04
  And, and he's, he's got a, a, you know, he's always got a fag.
• 1:10:07
  And, and he's, he's stains down his, down his shirt with a, he's
• 1:10:11
  always drinking and swearing. And he's just absolutely the
• 1:10:14
  best thing about those, those, those bits of that that I've
• 1:10:17
  caught. And I think, I think he's just
• 1:10:19
  amazing in everything that he does.
• 1:10:22
  Also, you know, I, I, I was super lucky last year to go to a
• 1:10:27
  convention where him and Janet were there as the, the two main,
• 1:10:33
  the main people. So it was great to, to finally
• 1:10:37
  meet, you know, these, these two brilliant actors that, that were
• 1:10:40
  a big part of my childhood. And you know, they, they are so
• 1:10:47
  entertaining together, the, the, the, the report that that they
• 1:10:51
  have with one another and that kind of banter and kind of, you
• 1:10:55
  know, Mickey taking that they do with one another.
• 1:10:58
  It was, it was just a joy to kind of watch them being up on
• 1:11:01
  stage and, and doing the, the Q&A and all that sort of thing.
• 1:11:04
  So I just think that, you know, the 5th Doctor is amazing.
• 1:11:08
  And I think so is Peter Davison. And yeah, that's just great.
• 1:11:13
  I think one of the reasons why he's never stopped working is
• 1:11:17
  he's managed to adapt his acting style to modern day acting
• 1:11:23
  styles. Like, like he in the 80s, he was
• 1:11:25
  acting, it was a great actor, but he was acting in that sort
• 1:11:29
  of slightly more theatrical way that everyone did in the 80s.
• 1:11:31
  And he's managed to sort of, you look at the other actors of the
• 1:11:35
  time. I mean, McCoy, I'm not sure if
• 1:11:37
  he's ever acting, if I'm honest, but Colin is still given exactly
• 1:11:41
  the same performance he was back in the 80s.
• 1:11:43
  You know what I mean? Yeah, but fabulous.
• 1:11:47
  Luke, I'm going to come next because I feel as if you should
• 1:11:49
  have the last word on the 5th Doctor.
• 1:11:52
  And I also met Peter Davidson for the first time last year and
• 1:11:56
  I have to say he gets the award for the most honest actor I've
• 1:12:00
  ever met because I, you know, let him to get pay him.
• 1:12:04
  He had a little card machine there.
• 1:12:05
  Let him to pay him for the photograph I was having with
• 1:12:08
  him. And then I was suddenly struck
• 1:12:10
  with inspiration. Oh, my God, my friend Luke Sims
• 1:12:12
  Jenkins is start. He's doing a Peter Davidson
• 1:12:15
  podcast. My God, I should I get Peter
• 1:12:18
  Davidson to say hello? Welcome to the Bar and Chess
• 1:12:21
  Club podcast. And I said, please, can I have a
• 1:12:23
  video as well as a picture? And he just grabbed my hand as I
• 1:12:27
  was putting my phone in, and he let in and he went, that will
• 1:12:30
  cost more. You know, I was like, oh, you're
• 1:12:33
  an honest man. He's a businessman.
• 1:12:35
  And I appreciate the honesty. Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  All right. Look, I didn't pay the rent that
• 1:12:42
  month. No, I did.
• 1:12:43
  I did. Do you know what?
• 1:12:44
  Again, like the era, right. I would say I I sort of had this
• 1:12:48
  instant. What did you say, Dan Beige blur
• 1:12:52
  wet fair. You know, I I and and sort of
• 1:12:56
  blends into the background of the more boring stories.
• 1:12:59
  And then I got over myself again.
• 1:13:02
  I started thinking of the era and how he was written for.
• 1:13:06
  I started thinking about certain stories and like how in Kinder
• 1:13:11
  he's probably the most inquisitive we've ever seen the
• 1:13:15
  Doctor be. How in Snake Dance he's probably
• 1:13:18
  as impotent at that wonderful scene where he comes bursting
• 1:13:21
  into that dinner party and going like a raving lunatic.
• 1:13:25
  The Mara's coming back and they all going, who is this lunatic?
• 1:13:28
  Get him out of here. But it's always, we've never
• 1:13:31
  ever seen the Doctor before in Enlightenment, that fury he has
• 1:13:36
  when he's facing up against Keith Barron and he realizes
• 1:13:39
  that they're playing about with human beings.
• 1:13:41
  I don't know. Have we ever seen the Doctor
• 1:13:43
  that angry, that blazing ahead, furious frontiers?
• 1:13:48
  I mean, please, please, Gravis, spare me the TARDIS.
• 1:13:51
  You know what a ham at the end of that story, because he's
• 1:13:54
  really funny as well. And then in case of Androsani,
• 1:13:57
  has the Doctor ever been as impotent as Peter Davidson is in
• 1:14:01
  that last story and how the events just wash and he can't do
• 1:14:06
  anything that whatever he tries, he just can't do anything
• 1:14:09
  because everyone's such a bloody cunt in that story.
• 1:14:11
  But he's so nice. He can't get through to anyone.
• 1:14:14
  They're all out for themselves. He's, he's like a totally alien
• 1:14:18
  in that environment. You know, all of his niceness.
• 1:14:21
  And because he's an alien, but alien because he was very
• 1:14:24
  actually good people. He's only two people that are
• 1:14:27
  good. By the end of that story, you
• 1:14:29
  know, he's so bloody furious he's screaming out in rage at
• 1:14:33
  the end of episode 3. Yeah, You're not going to let me
• 1:14:35
  stop me now. I'm going to say my bloody
• 1:14:37
  friend, you assholes. I mean that I'm paraphrasing,
• 1:14:40
  but like all of these, all of these different versions of that
• 1:14:44
  I don't think we've ever seen before.
• 1:14:45
  And I don't we've certainly have never seen the Doctor that
• 1:14:47
  impotent. I can't remember a time where
• 1:14:49
  the Doctor has been portrayed as like a, a raving lunatic like,
• 1:14:53
  and he, he changes his performance brilliantly to all
• 1:14:57
  of those things. But I think his biggest
• 1:14:59
  strength, his absolute biggest strength is his performance in
• 1:15:03
  the lesser stories. And someone said earlier about
• 1:15:05
  Time Flight. Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Can you imagine Time Flight without Peter Davison?
• 1:15:09
  I mean, he's dashing around, he's being witty.
• 1:15:12
  He's, do you have a bit where he comes into the TARDIS when it's
• 1:15:15
  on it's side and he's sort of hanging from the console?
• 1:15:18
  I mean, I think he's wonderful and I think he's got better with
• 1:15:22
  age. I I I Colin's my favorite.
• 1:15:25
  Colin will always be my favorite Big Finish Doctor.
• 1:15:27
  But I think in terms of material given to an actor, Peter
• 1:15:31
  Davidson has had overall the best material.
• 1:15:35
  And boy, he's given some serious performances in the last 20 odd
• 1:15:40
  years from Big Finish. You know, this, Luke, like some
• 1:15:43
  of the stuff in the last couple of years, it has been out of
• 1:15:45
  this world and they've taken the companions as they were on
• 1:15:49
  screen and they've added the chemistry that the actors have
• 1:15:55
  now. And so you have Peter and Janet
• 1:15:58
  and Sarah working together in those audios.
• 1:16:01
  It just works like gangbusters. So yeah, again, surprising.
• 1:16:05
  I, I my initial reaction for the era and the Doctor is how
• 1:16:09
  boring. And then when I think about it
• 1:16:11
  for 2 1/2 seconds, I'm like, there's a lot there.
• 1:16:14
  Actually, there's a lot more than I give it credit for.
• 1:16:17
  So shut up, Joe. All right, Luke.
• 1:16:22
  It's it's funny, like the two 2 examples that you gave of the
• 1:16:26
  doctor being impotent. That's the reason like like
• 1:16:31
  that's the that's like a actual story point for both snake dance
• 1:16:35
  and and and the caves of Andra Zani.
• 1:16:37
  I know there's that's 2 examples of him being passive and
• 1:16:46
  impotent, but the writers of both stories are saying
• 1:16:51
  something about that each time in different ways.
• 1:16:54
  I I see the 5th doctor and maybe there's some hindsight here but
• 1:17:00
  looking back I don't know. I love a doctor that I can see
• 1:17:05
  myself in in some ways. I don't wear a lot of beige and
• 1:17:09
  I'm not a huge cricketer, but I do bounce off the walls and I
• 1:17:14
  like to read. Very charming as well, like
• 1:17:18
  Peter Davidson. And that could be such a, a
• 1:17:22
  weird thing, right? Like I've, I've, I've had people
• 1:17:27
  tell me like, I am surprised you read because I guess they've
• 1:17:32
  seen me in a work setting or at party or something.
• 1:17:35
  I'm mingling. I'm over here now, I'm over here
• 1:17:38
  now, I'm over there, you know, all this kind of stuff.
• 1:17:43
  And I guess it's just surprises people that I like books and
• 1:17:48
  stuff. Oh, you are the 5th Doctor on
• 1:17:52
  you. So I love that.
• 1:17:56
  I think as I get older now, when people describe Trouten, they
• 1:18:03
  always describe him as, and I guess you get that mostly with
• 1:18:07
  the missing stories because you're like, we're missing all
• 1:18:09
  the interesting things he's doing because he's always doing
• 1:18:12
  something. And yeah, we are.
• 1:18:15
  And because you can see it in all the all of these on screen
• 1:18:17
  appearances. But I also think maybe it's the
• 1:18:21
  is he on the ADHD spectrum at all?
• 1:18:23
  Or maybe the his doctor is maybe the.
• 1:18:25
  Character maybe? Yeah, yeah, because I I can do
• 1:18:31
  this thing where too where I am patient and then just suddenly
• 1:18:35
  I'm like, oh, not now T grand. And you know, I can go through
• 1:18:43
  that gamut of being really excited to crashing down or just
• 1:18:50
  feeling things because things are out of my control, you know,
• 1:18:53
  in other situations and stuff. But yeah, it's it's it's a
• 1:18:58
  performance that's always stuck with me.
• 1:19:00
  I'm going to be a bad Doctor Who fan.
• 1:19:03
  No, I'm going to be a common Doctor Who fan, but I'm going to
• 1:19:05
  be a bad Peter Davidson fan. So when I say that, so Beryl
• 1:19:10
  Reed is the only Earth shocks, the only thing I've seen her in,
• 1:19:14
  you know, so I think you know where I'm going with this Rouse.
• 1:19:18
  I've only seen Hindle, has seen him play Hindle.
• 1:19:20
  So no, I have seen at least one or two episodes of something
• 1:19:25
  else Davison's done somewhere down the line.
• 1:19:27
  I don't know what, but I know I have.
• 1:19:29
  So I don't know what is like in like the broader thing on on, on
• 1:19:35
  things that's eventually going to be a side little side project
• 1:19:38
  for the for Mario and chess club just to.
• 1:19:40
  Malleable Luke. He's a very malleable actor.
• 1:19:44
  But yeah. He was in an episode of Vera a
• 1:19:47
  couple of series ago, the detective series that set in the
• 1:19:51
  north of England, and he was absolutely repellent.
• 1:19:56
  Oh we did. He was the evil headmaster in
• 1:19:59
  one of the BBV probe videos and he has long scenes with Caroline
• 1:20:04
  John's Liz where he details oh God you're right, he can be
• 1:20:08
  properly scary. Yeah, in this he, he wasn't so
• 1:20:11
  much scary. Well, I don't want to spoil it
• 1:20:13
  too much in case anybody wants to watch it.
• 1:20:15
  It's not a pleasant. It's one of the less.
• 1:20:17
  Well, none of them are pleasant. They're horrible crime stories,
• 1:20:20
  but it's one of the not austere ones.
• 1:20:23
  And I think he's possibly a social worker, the character
• 1:20:27
  from memory. And so he comes across as being,
• 1:20:31
  to start with, being kind of weak and a bit in, if
• 1:20:33
  ineffective. But he's.
• 1:20:35
  Yeah, really by the end of it, you kind of wish that Vera would
• 1:20:39
  reach across the table and slap him.
• 1:20:40
  She doesn't because, you know, she's restrained like that.
• 1:20:43
  But yeah, he he can really. But somebody who's got this kind
• 1:20:47
  of supposedly bland exterior, the impression he can give of
• 1:20:51
  having a lot going on behind it, He's he's.
• 1:20:54
  Very good. All those sitcoms he was in.
• 1:20:56
  I mean he was. I thought he was hilarious as
• 1:20:58
  Tristan when I was younger from All Creatures Great and Small.
• 1:21:03
  Evening Secret had a good day. Fine, thanks.
• 1:21:06
  Off somewhere. Well, I rather thought I'd take
• 1:21:08
  a jog around the common before dinner.
• 1:21:10
  My word, that's somewhat. Brave.
• 1:21:12
  Well, I've been feeling a bit slack lately.
• 1:21:14
  It's time I took myself in hand, I thought.
• 1:21:15
  Yeah, spanking. Good idea.
• 1:21:17
  It is too. You wouldn't care to join me,
• 1:21:19
  would you? Not just the moment, Right you
• 1:21:21
  are. Oh, by the way, would you like a
• 1:21:23
  cup of tea before you're right in the morning?
• 1:21:25
  Thereby I'll be half and away. 5:30 AM Too early for.
• 1:21:28
  You, you may be a cup of tea, 5:30.
• 1:21:29
  Yes, if you like just before my dawn run.
• 1:21:32
  Justin, yes, you're feeling all right.
• 1:21:33
  Hey. Fine, thanks.
• 1:21:36
  Oh hello James, Could you cancel my order of fags from the
• 1:21:39
  drivers next time you're there? I didn't want to be those boring
• 1:21:42
  vets. I wanted to be Tristan.
• 1:21:44
  In the first cold. Thing though, of Tom's been
• 1:21:47
  there for seven years, a lot of people would have been upset got
• 1:21:54
  her devastated their doctor's being replaced.
• 1:21:56
  My dad's favorite Doctor is Tom Baker, and it kind of surprises
• 1:22:01
  me sometimes that his second favorite Doctor is Peter
• 1:22:05
  Davison. So I think that's because he did
• 1:22:08
  like All Creatures Great and small.
• 1:22:10
  He watched it with my mom. So that was just a weekly, a
• 1:22:13
  weekly show they watched. But I I think for a Doctor that
• 1:22:19
  people can say is a bit bland or a bit passive or a bit like
• 1:22:23
  that. I don't think what I think what
• 1:22:26
  he did do was show that there was a Doctor Who after Tom Baker
• 1:22:31
  and someone can fill his shoes, you know, like and and just do a
• 1:22:37
  different kind of version of it. It's been almost seven years is
• 1:22:41
  a long time. We used to three Tom what Peter
• 1:22:45
  John Perry was 5. That's a chunk of change like
• 1:22:48
  for a Doctor Who was well, and then you got 7 with Tom.
• 1:22:51
  So. So that's a long time to know.
• 1:22:55
  How many regeneration stories are there in the 70s?
• 1:22:57
  One, it's a rarity for people. So yeah.
• 1:23:02
  And then you've got Hartnell. He's a bit of a loud personality
• 1:23:06
  or he'll, he'll get there at times.
• 1:23:08
  Trouten, not so much. Really good character actor, too
• 1:23:12
  loud, very flamboyant men with John Perry, Tom Baker.
• 1:23:16
  And then you've got that. I think you needed that kind of
• 1:23:19
  more subdued change. Yeah.
• 1:23:21
  Andy can be a right catty bitch when he wants to be as well.
• 1:23:24
  Carly, why are people so parochial?
• 1:23:28
  He's at one point. What's it?
• 1:23:30
  Done, Andrew. Tegan, get those wires down.
• 1:23:33
  I've just put them up. Well, Johnny, good, now you can
• 1:23:35
  take them down again. You know I.
• 1:23:38
  Like that, but. You did ask me what I thought.
• 1:23:44
  Very funny. Yes, it's a difference between
• 1:23:47
  serious scientific investigation.
• 1:23:51
  Yes, isn't there? Yes.
• 1:23:53
  Okay, well I suppose, I mean, sorry guys, but we need to go
• 1:23:57
  back to those Wally brains, the listeners, to read their
• 1:24:01
  comments. So let's hope they're being all
• 1:24:03
  positive this time. Again, Andrew F says I think
• 1:24:08
  that Davison is unfairly labeled boring due to having to follow
• 1:24:11
  Tom Baker. What he brought to the series
• 1:24:14
  was a fresh take on the Doctor, mixing elements of waspish
• 1:24:17
  Hartnell and trout and vulnerability.
• 1:24:19
  His final season is the best version when he's buried his
• 1:24:23
  last fuck. Oh, here we go.
• 1:24:26
  Yes. OK, Nathan Bottomley says Pete
• 1:24:30
  is one of the best actors ever to play the Doctor, able to
• 1:24:33
  breathe life into the most media, even the most mediocre
• 1:24:36
  material a hem. Oh.
• 1:24:40
  What a bitch. Kind of compliment there, all
• 1:24:45
  right, Dave, Rennie says. 5 is an oddity for me.
• 1:24:48
  Sometimes I love him and then I'll see him in a more passive
• 1:24:51
  role in a story and want to give him a shape.
• 1:24:54
  Davison plays it more naturalistically, which
• 1:24:56
  absolutely works, and he is so endearing.
• 1:24:58
  You can't. You can't not like this guy.
• 1:25:01
  It's Tom Tullow here, I'm a huge Tom fan so any successor was
• 1:25:06
  always going to have a tough job to win me over.
• 1:25:09
  I like Davison and think he was a charming Dr. It's just a shame
• 1:25:13
  that so many of his stories were underwhelming.
• 1:25:16
  Disagree. I think he has strung the phone
• 1:25:19
  around things. It's it was unfortunate he he
• 1:25:22
  got the job just as the show took a downward turn.
• 1:25:25
  Right man, wrong place. Oh, Tom too, it was.
• 1:25:28
  Tom too I am talking about. Great.
• 1:25:32
  I mean, he left a very catty review on My Hamster as well.
• 1:25:36
  I saw that Tom too, right? It was very kind about the
• 1:25:39
  podcast. He was like, but the host seems
• 1:25:41
  to have blocked me on social media.
• 1:25:43
  You must have said something terrible.
• 1:25:44
  I don't know what it was. Anyway, sorry Dan.
• 1:25:47
  Okie Dokie, yeah, I've got the future for everyone.
• 1:25:52
  And that comment is I think J&T and Saywood forgot they loved
• 1:25:57
  Doctor Who. TARDIS, crude fiction, friction,
• 1:26:02
  sorry. Rarely based in character
• 1:26:04
  development like their shared loss, excessive scene cuts.
• 1:26:09
  Davison is comfort is comfort food for me.
• 1:26:13
  He his run is full of atmosphere and good ideas.
• 1:26:17
  What could it have been if J&T&C would trusted stroke respected
• 1:26:22
  each other? Controversial take.
• 1:26:25
  I wish Christopher H Bidme had stayed as script editor.
• 1:26:28
  I. Mean, yeah.
• 1:26:30
  I don't disagree with that last comment because I think Britney
• 1:26:33
  was brought interesting ideas, but I you just can't write off
• 1:26:37
  all the writing in those three seasons.
• 1:26:40
  You just can't. So RB 368.
• 1:26:46
  Hello, we seem to have a Star Wars Droid.
• 1:26:50
  Leaving comments now. The Doctor was often poorly
• 1:26:54
  written. Oh dear.
• 1:26:56
  But Davison elevated the material and never gave a bad
• 1:26:59
  performance. Several classes, but a weak
• 1:27:01
  second season, poor season 20 could create.
• 1:27:04
  Why? Is that one what?
• 1:27:06
  Why does it get such a battering?
• 1:27:08
  Mr. and Telo are great but poorly developed.
• 1:27:10
  An era of huge potential. Several gems would have
• 1:27:13
  benefited from better writers and a fourth season.
• 1:27:16
  Daniel Knight. It's weird that JNT cast an
• 1:27:19
  actor known for sitcoms, sitcoms and the comedy Brother in All
• 1:27:23
  Creatures but then asks him to play it dead straight.
• 1:27:26
  Davidson is superb though and often very funny, especially
• 1:27:29
  with Janet Fielding. Too many companions possibly,
• 1:27:32
  but I wouldn't get rid of any of them, not even Adric.
• 1:27:34
  Yes, not even ADRIC. PJ Gallery says I love the 5th
• 1:27:40
  Doctor after Tom Baker. Perfect for his time.
• 1:27:43
  Just a shame anyone was saddled with Adric.
• 1:27:47
  Season 20 has its faults and season 21 is the best one.
• 1:27:51
  Thankfully, his era just misses the lump on in fighting that was
• 1:27:54
  to come. No, I don't know if you know PJ
• 1:27:57
  Gallery Paul, but he also has a very impressive chest.
• 1:28:02
  OK, so for the house. I've seen the pictures.
• 1:28:04
  All male naked calendar. I'm thinking of putting you both
• 1:28:07
  in December. All right.
• 1:28:09
  OK, OK. I'm sorry.
• 1:28:12
  They can be dressed as sexy Doctor Who fireman or something
• 1:28:15
  like one of those challenge. To wit.
• 1:28:21
  All right, so wow, I got AI, got one from Socrates.
• 1:28:26
  Oh my word, Socrates. Really so?
• 1:28:29
  Crazy how nice for Socrates to send us a comment on the damn
• 1:28:32
  scenario. My doctors were Pertwee and Tom
• 1:28:35
  Baker and I pretty much stopped watching in the last couple of
• 1:28:38
  Baker seasons. What 17?
• 1:28:40
  You crazy? Sorry I only watched Davidson
• 1:28:44
  years later. Hated his costume.
• 1:28:47
  He grew to love his performance. As always, the stories of mixed
• 1:28:50
  quality caves blew me away on 1st viewing.
• 1:28:53
  They've never seen anything like it.
• 1:28:55
  The stories that really intrigued me were Kinder
• 1:28:58
  Enlightenment, Snake Dance and Castro Valva.
• 1:29:01
  They had an odd quality about them, almost poetic and
• 1:29:04
  philosophical. And there's the Socrates coming
• 1:29:06
  out right there. They felt original and grown up.
• 1:29:09
  However, I found the Companions to be irritating performances.
• 1:29:12
  Reminded me of the Tomorrow people.
• 1:29:15
  David Pete Davidson was in there in a pair of gold pandas.
• 1:29:19
  You ever seen that 10 God I haven't seen.
• 1:29:21
  Any of it I've heard about it. You say gold pants and for some
• 1:29:24
  reason I think Kylie Minogue from that.
• 1:29:26
  Video I think of Rocky from Rocky Horror.
• 1:29:29
  He's got a great blonde wig on Lucy.
• 1:29:31
  It's very funny. He looks like Colin.
• 1:29:35
  Like in pants. Does does he look like Colin or
• 1:29:38
  does he look like Sylvester pretending to be Colin in the
• 1:29:41
  middle? Ashley a little bit, yeah.
• 1:29:43
  Oh yeah, yeah. All right, I've got the next
• 1:29:47
  comment. I've got Ollie Ford and he says
• 1:29:50
  I see it as a bit of a wasted opportunity with some great
• 1:29:54
  moments. Earth Shock, Kinder and Caves
• 1:29:57
  are absolute classics but there are a lot of dodgy decisions
• 1:30:01
  made during the era and it ultimately alienated the star.
• 1:30:06
  Davison is always committed though and I love his Doctor.
• 1:30:11
  I wish they used his youth more. I want to see him run and be a
• 1:30:15
  hero. The relationship with Taylor was
• 1:30:17
  great and Strickson is a Brill actor.
• 1:30:20
  I would have loved more episodes just he and Perry.
• 1:30:25
  It's so obvious to say but that episode 3 cliffhanger of caves
• 1:30:30
  still blows me away and he is phenomenal in it.
• 1:30:33
  And the celery is absolute bollocks.
• 1:30:36
  Run more. There's no doctor that runs more
• 1:30:39
  than B Davidson. He runs a different story.
• 1:30:45
  Oh boy. Oh look.
• 1:30:46
  Oh, what a lovely comment I've got next, Andrew Blair says in 2
• 1:30:49
  words. It's all right.
• 1:30:53
  Oh, wait for a pretty short podcast there.
• 1:30:54
  I'll have him on sometime. One need to do so much.
• 1:30:59
  Martin Parson says. I think the era as a whole
• 1:31:02
  suffers from an unwillingness to let Davison B Davison when the
• 1:31:06
  5th Doctor's a sulky, impatient fucker, he's incredible.
• 1:31:09
  But when it hits, it really hits.
• 1:31:11
  And the fourth season with a single companion would have been
• 1:31:14
  wonderful. Oh, just hearing you say sulky
• 1:31:17
  impatient fucker has made my night.
• 1:31:19
  You know can. I just say something right now.
• 1:31:22
  I like Doctor Who better when there's more than one companion.
• 1:31:27
  Yeah, that's why we love Jodie. Oh, sorry.
• 1:31:31
  Silence. OK.
• 1:31:32
  No, it's true. I.
• 1:31:34
  Do why yeah. I think at the times when there
• 1:31:37
  was one companion that there was, there was a wider structure
• 1:31:43
  around them, apart from in Tom's era when it was Romana and then,
• 1:31:47
  but then you had K9 as well. Paul, I need to warn you about
• 1:31:51
  Anthony Carroll, all right? If he does come across as a
• 1:31:54
  psychopath that likes murder in his comment, that's because he
• 1:31:59
  is OK. Oh OK, Anthony Carroll says I
• 1:32:04
  was 11 for his first season. Loved it like the TARDIS team,
• 1:32:08
  even Adric at some points. Season 19, great, Davidson
• 1:32:12
  great. Let down a bit in season 20.
• 1:32:14
  There they go again. High points.
• 1:32:17
  Earth shock and caves and resurrection of Daleks.
• 1:32:19
  Good death counts bad death counts equals kinder.
• 1:32:24
  He. Loves that Reservoir Dogs and
• 1:32:27
  Doctor Who honestly. Well, I, I would say that that
• 1:32:32
  Mister Anthony Carroll would not like either of Christopher
• 1:32:36
  Bailey's stories because no one dies in either except for Mary
• 1:32:40
  Myers version of Panna, who gets merged into the younger version.
• 1:32:45
  So. And you never find out what
• 1:32:47
  happens to the to the to the missing imperial.
• 1:32:51
  So let's go. Mr. Paul Dunn.
• 1:32:55
  My doctor loved him then love him.
• 1:32:59
  Still suffered a bit from not being allowed to be a bit more
• 1:33:02
  humorous. The only classic doctor to
• 1:33:04
  finish stronger than they started.
• 1:33:07
  Yeah. Yeah, Davidson worked hard to
• 1:33:10
  lift some of the weaker material and mostly succeeded one of the
• 1:33:13
  best actors in the role. Oh, sorry Dan, my nemesis here.
• 1:33:17
  I do apologise. There's a bit of a dissertation.
• 1:33:20
  Oh, he's just making MSI. Scrap yourself in going I've got
• 1:33:26
  Michael Storm and he says the Davidson era is my least
• 1:33:32
  favorite era of the classic run because it is apparent that most
• 1:33:37
  of the writers don't understand the character and as such the
• 1:33:41
  era feels directionless with the regulars frequently becoming
• 1:33:46
  ciphers rather than characters. Davison.
• 1:33:50
  Davison himself does his best but frequently looks like the
• 1:33:54
  new intern thrown in at the deep end and making the best of it,
• 1:33:58
  but lacks the presence of staying power to pull it off.
• 1:34:01
  Bid, Mead, Clerk, and Bailey are the only writers who truly
• 1:34:06
  understand the character. Not to say I find merit, no
• 1:34:10
  merit in the era at all. At least four stories made it
• 1:34:14
  into my top 60 for 60. Frontios, Enlightenment and
• 1:34:18
  Rosani and Terminus Yes really are amongst my favorite stories.
• 1:34:23
  Yeah, it's on all your hit lists now as well, right?
• 1:34:27
  How'd you come on here dissing Peter Davidson?
• 1:34:29
  All right, and then promoting your 60 for 60, as you know,
• 1:34:32
  check it out, is really great, Michael.
• 1:34:35
  Now I'm blaming Paul for all this negativity, all right?
• 1:34:38
  I wasn't even going to put out for these lunatics and their
• 1:34:41
  negative Gary Finizer. The name again I don't
• 1:34:48
  recognise. Hello Gary inspired casting.
• 1:34:50
  It had to be someone completely different to Tom Baker and Peter
• 1:34:53
  was the right choice. A good first season with Kinder
• 1:34:56
  being the stand out story for me.
• 1:34:58
  OK, Edward Gillooly says a mixed bag of stories with some
• 1:35:02
  classics, Earth Shock, Kinder Caves and some shockers, Time
• 1:35:06
  Flight, King's Demons. I think season 919 is really
• 1:35:09
  underrated. Davison took time to get into
• 1:35:12
  the role, but his portrayal of an old mind in a young body
• 1:35:15
  works well when he's on form. The 5th Doctor's quieter
• 1:35:18
  demeanour fits well in between the 4th and 6th bombastic
• 1:35:20
  approaches. And at least they explained the
• 1:35:22
  celery at the end do. You think Edward might have the
• 1:35:25
  best surname of all the Ham fam Giluli?
• 1:35:31
  Giluli sounds like a town in Australia.
• 1:35:34
  OK Graham Barrett says his was my era when I was a kid so it'll
• 1:35:38
  always be special to me. Though unfortunately I find it
• 1:35:41
  all a bit tough to watch these days.
• 1:35:43
  It certainly hasn't held up as well as some previous seasons
• 1:35:46
  like 12/13/14 have. I totally disagree.
• 1:35:49
  I also wish he had stuck around for season 22 at Perry.
• 1:35:53
  I do agree. Now, we've got two more comments
• 1:35:56
  here now, Charlie Barnes. Now this is a message to you
• 1:35:58
  directly. OK?
• 1:36:00
  Now look, 2 tweets is enough. OK, All right, I cannot have
• 1:36:03
  people reading out 15 tweets. I've had to cut this down
• 1:36:07
  substantially. Otherwise, we would be adding
• 1:36:09
  another hour to the episode. But thank you for your thoughts.
• 1:36:12
  Sorry. Go ahead, Luke.
• 1:36:14
  Well, you know, I really like those early Baker seasons.
• 1:36:16
  But then, you know, I also like women.
• 1:36:19
  And hey, look, the Dave O'ira has them, even has two female
• 1:36:26
  companions at the same time instead of just one, so it's
• 1:36:29
  even got more of the female. Yeah, alright.
• 1:36:31
  Anyway, Charlie more. Women, right?
• 1:36:33
  There's more women in Kinder than you get in the whole of the
• 1:36:36
  Philip Hinchcliffe era. I used to find this era hit and
• 1:36:39
  miss in terms of quality, now I find it one of the most
• 1:36:42
  underrated in terms of quality. Yay.
• 1:36:46
  Considering the massive, massive hat and scarf he had to feel.
• 1:36:51
  Peter Davison was wonderful throughout.
• 1:36:53
  He brought charm, humour, wit and vulnerability to the role.
• 1:36:57
  He perfectly embodied the Edwardian aristocrat gentleman
• 1:37:02
  adventurer aspect of the Doctor. This was an era that wasn't
• 1:37:06
  afraid to experiment and made make all decisions.
• 1:37:09
  Overall, an under appreciated ambitious era with lots to
• 1:37:13
  recommend, anchored by one of the best actors to play the
• 1:37:17
  role. How's that?
• 1:37:18
  And finally, we have spider emoji.
• 1:37:22
  And they say Davison, like Smith, had a massive task in
• 1:37:26
  replacing a universally loved predecessor.
• 1:37:30
  He did it with aplomb, was able to do mercury and steel.
• 1:37:35
  His TARDIS was overcrowded at the start and that, as it was
• 1:37:40
  more recently was a mistake. The dynamic improved when it
• 1:37:44
  went down when it was just two comp comps or I guess that's
• 1:37:48
  companions. His era had very had very few
• 1:37:53
  poor stories and some exceptional ones.
• 1:37:55
  Caves and Kinder I'm looking at you, happy to be experimental.
• 1:38:00
  Killed a companion off which was shocking to to this then young
• 1:38:04
  fan. Embraced some nostalgia in
• 1:38:07
  season 20, but not to the detriment of the show.
• 1:38:11
  Finally, some love for Season 20.
• 1:38:13
  Gee. Is is that the problem with
• 1:38:15
  season 20? Is it because it's a bit
• 1:38:19
  continuity heavy? I I guess this is the Levine
• 1:38:24
  effect, isn't it? Because, because he was there as
• 1:38:26
  continuity advisor or whatever it was.
• 1:38:28
  Is that why people don't like it?
• 1:38:30
  I genuinely think, again, it might be Peter Davison and not
• 1:38:34
  his performance in it, but he's he's so critical of Season 20
• 1:38:38
  and he said the reason he quit was because he wasn't happy with
• 1:38:42
  those scripts in Season 20. He said if he had 21 as 20, he
• 1:38:46
  might have done a fourth year, but he got the scripts in for 20
• 1:38:49
  and he was like, I'm done. Maybe the fans listen to the
• 1:38:53
  voice. I don't know.
• 1:38:56
  I don't know. Well, everybody, a great task is
• 1:39:00
  ahead for us now as we have to determine our favorite story out
• 1:39:05
  of the following of God. I've lost my list.
• 1:39:07
  Hang on. So the winners of Strictly Come
• 1:39:13
  Hamster 1920 and 21 were Hinder, Snake Dance and, bafflingly,
• 1:39:21
  Planet of Fire. And we're throwing Earth Shock
• 1:39:27
  into the mix as well. You can choose any one of those
• 1:39:30
  four and hang on a minute, a little bit a moment for the camp
• 1:39:35
  music that I haven't deployed for a while as the tension ramps
• 1:39:39
  up. Let's oh, is anyone want to go
• 1:39:41
  first? Oh everyone's look, no, no, OK,
• 1:39:46
  I mean, should I go first? I'll get out of the way and then
• 1:39:48
  you guys can hash it out between you.
• 1:39:51
  Okey dokey. I really struggle to choose
• 1:39:55
  between two of these, but I want to go with a season 20 story.
• 1:40:02
  I want to go with snake dance. Because I think it is the
• 1:40:06
  ultimate example of like Doctor Who, the stage show.
• 1:40:11
  Yeah, it's it's kind of all done in studios.
• 1:40:15
  You could put this on on the stage, but boy, with rich sets,
• 1:40:20
  some wonderful lighting in there, beautiful costumes, the
• 1:40:25
  stories full of of terrific character actors with great
• 1:40:30
  roles. I mean, if I saw this on the
• 1:40:32
  stage, I would pay good money to go and see this in London.
• 1:40:36
  You know, Snake Dance. I think it's a really
• 1:40:38
  sophisticated story in terms of world building.
• 1:40:43
  I think in the eight 80s Doctor Who, you very often feel like
• 1:40:47
  you go into a story and the world is built for that story
• 1:40:51
  and then you come out of it and and it doesn't exist before you
• 1:40:55
  went there or after you leave. Whereas you just feel the weight
• 1:40:59
  and the history of menusa in this.
• 1:41:02
  I've no doubt helped by kinder, but just that whole feeling as
• 1:41:08
  well. The the myth of the Mara and how
• 1:41:12
  that's been exploited and how that is, you know, they're sort
• 1:41:15
  of making money out of it now and how they've forgotten what
• 1:41:19
  the horrors of the past actually mean just before it comes back
• 1:41:23
  to bite them all on the ass at the end of this.
• 1:41:27
  I think it's a wonderful cast of characters.
• 1:41:30
  I will always talk about that moment that Rob Shearman
• 1:41:33
  highlights, which is Tanner in episode 1 where she's talking
• 1:41:38
  about her husband and she just has 2 words where she just looks
• 1:41:43
  off and goes even then and it says everything about that
• 1:41:48
  relationship in 2 words. Bailey just writes such concise,
• 1:41:54
  vivid characters. Lord man, it's been more of a
• 1:41:57
  spoiled brat in Doctor Who. Anyone you want to sort, pick up
• 1:42:01
  and shake? I always put Martin Clunes up as
• 1:42:04
  hey, we want to embarrass you. Here's your first role.
• 1:42:08
  No, we don't care. Fucking.
• 1:42:10
  He has on here. Come on, make me come.
• 1:42:12
  I don't care. Sandals, everything.
• 1:42:16
  He looks amazing and for his first major TV gig, incredible.
• 1:42:21
  You never know. The point of the outfit at the
• 1:42:22
  end is that it does look ridiculous.
• 1:42:24
  Post to look. Because it's a it's a costume
• 1:42:28
  for a mystery. The the menusa version of a
• 1:42:31
  mystery play, isn't it so? But he don't, I mean, I don't
• 1:42:35
  sense a bit of humiliation in Martin Clunes.
• 1:42:38
  He's like, Nah, hold on, make me look sillier.
• 1:42:41
  I think it's the number one argument for Peter Davison when
• 1:42:46
  he says that he and Sarah Sutton could have been doctor and
• 1:42:50
  companion in the show, because I think the 5th Doctor and Nyssa
• 1:42:52
  have a great rapport in this story.
• 1:42:55
  All of that stuff in Part 4 where Shayla's helping her down
• 1:42:59
  and she's like, that wasn't necessary and she's like, oh,
• 1:43:02
  she's a catty old cow in this one.
• 1:43:04
  I love it. And Jonathan Morris as well.
• 1:43:08
  Amazing. John Carson, terrific.
• 1:43:11
  Colette O'Neill. I mean, the cast is out of this
• 1:43:13
  world. Even lesser ropes, the fortune
• 1:43:17
  teller At the end of episode 1, I flutter my fingers, gaze deep
• 1:43:22
  into the ball. No, not really.
• 1:43:24
  I'm making out, I'm making. I mean, that's a wonder.
• 1:43:27
  People say point of snake dolls for terrible cliffhangers.
• 1:43:30
  And Part 3 is a bit hit or miss, but episode one, man with that
• 1:43:33
  snake skull, it's absolutely terrifying.
• 1:43:37
  Peter Howe's music in this is one of the most atmospheric
• 1:43:39
  scores you're gonna get in the air as well.
• 1:43:42
  But most of all, I just think Davidson is extraordinarily good
• 1:43:45
  in this. He's putting all of the mystery
• 1:43:48
  together. He is literally dashing in and
• 1:43:51
  out of scenes. He's not given a comedic turn.
• 1:43:55
  But everyone's true. Like, if they just listen to him
• 1:43:58
  in this story, it would be over at the end of episode one that
• 1:44:01
  Crystal would be away. None of this would be out there.
• 1:44:04
  But no, they all just think he's just some raving lunatic that's
• 1:44:07
  coming in and out of rooms. And Bailey's script, it's just
• 1:44:11
  one gem after another. I just think it's one of the
• 1:44:13
  most sophisticated Doctor Who stories.
• 1:44:15
  I, I think it's better than Kinder.
• 1:44:17
  Sorry, Luke. I think it Bailey looked at what
• 1:44:21
  they could achieve with Kinder and then wrote a script with
• 1:44:24
  Snake Dance. And so I think it's overall a
• 1:44:27
  more polished bit of work. I think Kinder's probably
• 1:44:29
  scarier and has more vivid moments, like the end of Episode
• 1:44:34
  3 and all those clocks going off and and and moments like that,
• 1:44:37
  Weirder things happening. But as a Doctor Who story, I
• 1:44:41
  think Snake Dance is practically flawless for all the things that
• 1:44:46
  I want it for. Not special effects, good
• 1:44:48
  acting, good writing, a vivid Dr. a great companion.
• 1:44:53
  And I haven't even mentioned Janet Fielden's superb, sublime
• 1:44:59
  turn as the Mara. I mean, that bit where she
• 1:45:02
  seduces LON in that hall of mirrors.
• 1:45:05
  She's fantastic in this. Yeah.
• 1:45:08
  My choice is Snake Dance for the wind.
• 1:45:11
  Let's go across to round. And round.
• 1:45:15
  And round we go, Dan. Yeah, like you, I had real
• 1:45:25
  difficulty in making, making a decision between these three
• 1:45:33
  because I, I think there's there's arguments that any one
• 1:45:37
  of these three could, could, could win it.
• 1:45:42
  But in the end and and by a by a gnat's whisker, I, I went with,
• 1:45:49
  I went with snake dancing. I'm I'm with I'm with you on
• 1:45:52
  this one, Joe. I really love that.
• 1:45:56
  I think like we, we've already kind of discussed this when we
• 1:45:58
  were talking about Dave Owen, the 5th Doctor, but but that the
• 1:46:04
  impotence that he has in this, in this story, he is, he's
• 1:46:11
  absolutely fighting, fighting the tide.
• 1:46:14
  And, and, and I think it, it's quite, I suppose, again, going
• 1:46:21
  back to like we've had seven years of like Tom Baker before
• 1:46:24
  that we had five years of, of John Burtway.
• 1:46:28
  These were were two doctors that that rarely showed flaws, rarely
• 1:46:40
  showed sort of like an inability to be able to kind of influence
• 1:46:47
  events around them. So so when we get we get to the
• 1:46:53
  Davy era, we we have got this doctor that and and I guess it's
• 1:46:58
  kind of playing on that old person in a, in a young person's
• 1:47:02
  body, you know, not always does does does he get the authority
• 1:47:07
  that he kind of deserves? And I think this is a really
• 1:47:09
  good story for, for kind of doing that and playing on that
• 1:47:12
  because like you say, you know, all the way through the story,
• 1:47:17
  you know, the 5th Doctor is kind of going, look, you've got to
• 1:47:20
  listen to me. And each and every time that he
• 1:47:23
  does it, he is, he's kind of just like fobbed off as being
• 1:47:27
  like, like you say, some sort of crazy lunatic that's come up
• 1:47:30
  with all of these mad theories and, and, and sort of like, you
• 1:47:35
  know, you know, doomsaying about, about, you know, the,
• 1:47:40
  the, this, this, this, this can't go on because it's going
• 1:47:42
  to be disastrous and all this sort of stuff.
• 1:47:45
  And I, and I think that is, is really, really good.
• 1:47:47
  And, and I think also, I think I'm, I'm, I'm a sucker for a
• 1:47:53
  sequel. I, I prefer aliens over alien.
• 1:47:58
  I prefer Empire Strikes Back over New Hope.
• 1:48:01
  I, I, I, I, you know, so, so I, I like you, Joe.
• 1:48:04
  I, I prefer snake dance over, over kinder.
• 1:48:08
  Kinder is brilliant, don't get me wrong, But I but I think
• 1:48:12
  it's, it's a case of kind of like, you know, it's really kind
• 1:48:17
  of ramped up in, in this one. I think also you've got some,
• 1:48:22
  you've got a cast in this that everyone plays their part and
• 1:48:28
  they play it really, really well.
• 1:48:31
  I think like John Carson as, as Ambro, I was kind of like
• 1:48:38
  watching, watching. This 12345.
• 1:48:43
  Exactly. He he is, he is an intellectual
• 1:48:47
  idiot and and is so, so clever. And and that like Luke says that
• 1:48:53
  bit where he puts on the the fight, was it the six faces of
• 1:48:56
  delusion? He's going, he's like fobbing it
• 1:48:58
  off and going, well, I, I can't believe it because it's a it's
• 1:49:02
  it's. Couldn't.
• 1:49:04
  Even count, you know, kind of thing.
• 1:49:06
  And then when he puts it on and the doctor gets Sheila to to
• 1:49:11
  kind of count them and he goes 12345 and he goes and the face
• 1:49:16
  of the of the wearer and he goes.
• 1:49:18
  I think that's the point. And and it is, you know, those
• 1:49:21
  devo dates die down. Get out.
• 1:49:26
  He couldn't help himself. He needs, he needs this guy's
• 1:49:28
  help. But he's just like, Oh no, I'm
• 1:49:30
  going to shit on him big time. It's too big.
• 1:49:32
  It's too awesome a burn to let go.
• 1:49:35
  I'm convinced he would do anything for those artefacts as
• 1:49:38
  well. He'd sell out anyone to get to
• 1:49:40
  those crickets. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:44
  And and I think, like we've already mentioned Martin cleans,
• 1:49:47
  but he is amazing in this. I I know like, like like better
• 1:49:52
  than people. Remember.
• 1:49:53
  Yeah, it. It kind of get the the the
• 1:49:56
  costume that he wears at the end is, is that kind of thing that
• 1:49:59
  they always go ha ha ha, you know, is his first acting role.
• 1:50:03
  Look at him in this stupid costume and all this sort of
• 1:50:06
  stuff. But I think like if you if you
• 1:50:09
  look at the actual performance, it's so, so good because it's
• 1:50:13
  guy. He's got this like petulant,
• 1:50:18
  privileged child kind of kind of way about him.
• 1:50:24
  You know, that the fact that, you know, the federator's son is
• 1:50:27
  bored and and it's it's just brilliant.
• 1:50:31
  And then I think like, like, I think you've already brought
• 1:50:34
  this out, Jose. It's that bit where, well, you
• 1:50:38
  know, when, when Teigen, who's obviously been taken over by the
• 1:50:42
  Mara at this point and she their relationship is kind of like
• 1:50:48
  very sexual, very kind. She seduces him and the way that
• 1:50:53
  they're kind of holding hands in the, in, in the.
• 1:50:55
  Way you could turn it down she. Remember what he says?
• 1:50:58
  I mean, that's the most wonder. I suggest he goes, Oh yeah, why
• 1:51:01
  not? He goes to grab her.
• 1:51:03
  Yeah, You know, so I I think it's it's absolutely superb, you
• 1:51:08
  know, kind of thing. And you know, this this is
• 1:51:10
  really early in his career as well.
• 1:51:12
  I think think first or second, second television role, you
• 1:51:17
  know, and like, like you say, Jonathan Morris as as as
• 1:51:20
  cheerleading. I think, you know, the the fact
• 1:51:23
  that he's kind of cut that kind of nervous, kind of, you know,
• 1:51:30
  underling kind of kind of way about him.
• 1:51:32
  But in a in many of those he's he's more intelligent than than
• 1:51:38
  than the people that are are are above him kind of thing.
• 1:51:41
  And it's sort of like an event and he's kind of putting the
• 1:51:44
  bits together and he's very hesitant and and reticent to
• 1:51:48
  kind of help the doctor. But as those bits of the jigsaw
• 1:51:53
  kind of fall into place, he goes he then goes and acts and kind
• 1:51:56
  of gets gets, you know, brick breaks the the doctor out of
• 1:52:00
  jail. Yes, It's so you know, you got
• 1:52:04
  like Brian Brian Miller in it as as the the showman what what
• 1:52:10
  it's kind of like because it has got that kind of Henry Gordon
• 1:52:14
  Diego kind of theatrical kind of performance, you know, kind.
• 1:52:18
  Of live the power of the snake. Yeah.
• 1:52:22
  And then you. Say no.
• 1:52:22
  I mean, it's a great line, he says.
• 1:52:24
  About what? At the end of the day, when
• 1:52:26
  someone's holding out their hand for the money like they always
• 1:52:29
  are, I decided it would be me. He's so great.
• 1:52:33
  Yeah, you know, so I think everyone in the cast is on
• 1:52:38
  absolute top form and and it, you know, yes, it is.
• 1:52:42
  It is in, in a studio that there's no, you know, location
• 1:52:49
  filming or anything like that, but it looks so beautiful The,
• 1:52:54
  the, the, the market stores and the entrance to the caves as
• 1:52:59
  well, where you've got all of those like roots and vines and
• 1:53:03
  stuff. You know, it's, it's, it's
• 1:53:05
  superb. And then?
• 1:53:06
  He drew the snake, didn't he? On the wall mainly drew the
• 1:53:09
  snake because he said I want this design.
• 1:53:12
  I wanted to fuck it up. You did kinder.
• 1:53:15
  Yeah, well, exactly. It was a much better snake than
• 1:53:18
  what we get in Kinder as well. But but also I think the
• 1:53:21
  costumes are brilliant with with the exception of this.
• 1:53:23
  Of this. I love that costume.
• 1:53:27
  What are you talking about? Oh, it's dog.
• 1:53:29
  Shit, it really is. It's just a skirt and top.
• 1:53:32
  What's that that's about? This is one of these things that
• 1:53:35
  I run into all the time when I'm, when I'm consuming and
• 1:53:38
  absorbing Doctor Who. I think, oh, that was all right.
• 1:53:41
  And then I read that was terrible.
• 1:53:43
  It was so dull. This was all dreadful, were
• 1:53:45
  awful, the writing was appalling, and the director, and
• 1:53:47
  was really. You should tell him, Lucy.
• 1:53:48
  I quite liked it, whatever it happened to be.
• 1:53:51
  The whole scene where she's trying to show off to the 5th
• 1:53:54
  Doctor and he's just not noticing her at all is it?
• 1:53:56
  He's like twiddling the concert. Stripy skirt and top.
• 1:53:59
  I don't get the. I don't see what the big deal
• 1:54:01
  is. It's not for me but but.
• 1:54:04
  You ain't gotta wear it. Yeah, but, but you know, I love
• 1:54:08
  all the other costumes, like the the one that Jonathan Morris
• 1:54:11
  wears, you know, the sort of flared kind of kind of tunic,
• 1:54:15
  you know, in, in, you know, and, and even like longs one with the
• 1:54:21
  way where he's actually wearing the the gloves and, and sort of
• 1:54:24
  like the jerking and stuff. Just look.
• 1:54:28
  Yes, it is. But it just looks absolutely
• 1:54:31
  divine, absolutely beautiful. And as you know, Joe, I'm all
• 1:54:34
  about the visual. So that, you know, that's a bit,
• 1:54:38
  you know, it's just brilliant. So yeah, Snake dance for the
• 1:54:41
  win. One more bit of trivia, because
• 1:54:44
  I learned this recently. My includes got his first break
• 1:54:47
  in television because of those beautiful lips of his Fiona come
• 1:54:52
  out. I was listening to the who's
• 1:54:53
  round the other day and she said who the hell is going to play
• 1:54:56
  this arrogant child? And she's flicking through
• 1:54:58
  spotlight and there's my includes pouting her out of the
• 1:55:03
  and she went, oh, look at those perfect.
• 1:55:06
  No, that's the pout I need. So but you know, a pal can get
• 1:55:10
  you a career. Maybe Instagram's right after
• 1:55:13
  all. Right, let's go.
• 1:55:16
  So 2 for snake dogs. But for you know, things can
• 1:55:19
  change. Let's go over Lucy.
• 1:55:22
  What have you got for us? I don't know is the honest
• 1:55:25
  answer. I really can't.
• 1:55:28
  I'm just I like Snake Dance a lot and I also like Kinder,
• 1:55:32
  although I acknowledge that the decisions were made in Kinder
• 1:55:37
  with the presentation of the tribe.
• 1:55:39
  That wouldn't happen these days, shouldn't have happened then.
• 1:55:43
  It would have been different if they'd been presented as not
• 1:55:45
  humanoid, although that would have sort of softened the story
• 1:55:49
  a bit. But when they are humanoid, you
• 1:55:51
  get into the question of sort of brown face, which did happen and
• 1:55:57
  the whole but it's meant to show the imperialist not
• 1:56:01
  understanding the people who they're trying to exploit.
• 1:56:06
  I I do there are many things I do like about kinder.
• 1:56:09
  I know that him off that's life isn't the best actor in the
• 1:56:12
  world, let's face it. And but I do think that this is
• 1:56:18
  one story where Adric actually comes out of it.
• 1:56:23
  He actually has quite a decent part to play in it because he's
• 1:56:27
  a child. Effectively.
• 1:56:29
  One of the problems I think I have or people have with Adric
• 1:56:32
  is that he was cast older than he was supposed to be, which is
• 1:56:34
  what happened in the 80s. They wouldn't have cast somebody
• 1:56:37
  close to what is he supposed to be 14, something like that.
• 1:56:40
  I think he's a kid, and when he like with kids, when he meets
• 1:56:45
  somebody who is unexpectedly behaving as a child, he's
• 1:56:49
  freaked out by it. It's like, no, I don't want to
• 1:56:51
  play a game. That's stupid.
• 1:56:53
  Why are you doing that? Because Rouse is losing his.
• 1:56:56
  Because Hindle is losing his mind.
• 1:57:00
  Nearest Hughes is fab, although you kind of almost forget that
• 1:57:05
  she's one of the baddies, because she is.
• 1:57:08
  And I, I adore Richard Todd's performance.
• 1:57:12
  I think he's brilliant. He could have phoned it in, he
• 1:57:15
  could have just turned up and said the lines, but he really
• 1:57:18
  doesn't. He invests the character with
• 1:57:22
  real character and his smile before you realize what's
• 1:57:25
  happened to him is absolutely terrifying.
• 1:57:29
  And do. You mind if I come in?
• 1:57:31
  And he just smiles and it's and and made.
• 1:57:35
  Martin is brilliant in the part and I think the the the the
• 1:57:40
  young man who plays her assistant, whose name I can't
• 1:57:44
  remember, is also very good. So yeah, I have a lot of time
• 1:57:47
  for Kinder. I have a lot of time for snake
• 1:57:48
  dance as well. The only bit about snake dance
• 1:57:51
  that kind of I don't really like is the blue, the very blue sky
• 1:57:56
  where he goes to see the philosopher who with the snake,
• 1:58:00
  because I don't do snakes particularly well.
• 1:58:03
  So real snakes, big pink snakes, big pink fake snakes, fine.
• 1:58:07
  Actual snakes, not so much. And also the the blueness of
• 1:58:13
  that. It's weird because a lot of
• 1:58:14
  things were filmed in studios, they just were in the 80s.
• 1:58:17
  So the fact that it's a sort of studio bounce, it doesn't bother
• 1:58:21
  me until you get to the point with that lurid blue sky where
• 1:58:27
  he's talking to the man with the snake.
• 1:58:29
  And then that kind of takes me out of it a bit because it's so
• 1:58:32
  weird. Yeah.
• 1:58:35
  I also have a lot of time for Planet of Fire, partly because I
• 1:58:38
  didn't like Turlo when I was a child because he was a baddie
• 1:58:41
  and I didn't understand the change of his character.
• 1:58:45
  But I like that he gets redemption in that story.
• 1:58:48
  I think Perry has a good, strong introduction.
• 1:58:52
  I yeah, I think Peter Wingog is a really nuanced and subtle
• 1:58:58
  performance despite his usual reputation.
• 1:59:04
  And this is another example if you go, oh, Peter Wingard, you
• 1:59:07
  know, like this and like this, well, no, just watch it and see
• 1:59:09
  what he's actually like. So.
• 1:59:12
  It's all funny though. Lewis aren't though, that he
• 1:59:13
  wanted to play. Off like, yeah.
• 1:59:16
  And they went, please just give a it was performance you did for
• 1:59:19
  him. Yeah, yeah, yes.
• 1:59:21
  What he was like, you know, do you want me to act older, PT
• 1:59:25
  Although I'm sure nobody said that, but, but yeah, yeah.
• 1:59:30
  So I don't know. An Earth shock we've talked
• 1:59:32
  about already. So I think actually weirdly,
• 1:59:35
  despite the issues with it, I'm leaning towards kinder because
• 1:59:41
  it's so strange and so different and the I know that the cast is
• 1:59:49
  not uniformly strong, particularly Adrian what's his
• 1:59:55
  surname? Mills, Mills, Mills and it's but
• 2:00:01
  I think that it's. It uses all apart from apart
• 2:00:05
  from Nyssa, who of course is having a lie down.
• 2:00:06
  Again, it does use the characters that it that it has
• 2:00:10
  to use. Well, they're separated.
• 2:00:13
  Things are happening to them that then come to a head at the
• 2:00:16
  end. I as as you say, I love invasion
• 2:00:19
  of the dinosaurs, so I don't have a problem with large
• 2:00:22
  unrealistic monsters. That doesn't bother me at all.
• 2:00:26
  So I'm going to choose kinder. Well, I was hoping somebody
• 2:00:30
  would choose kinder along the way.
• 2:00:32
  Now, Paul, I'm going to give you the deciding vote this time.
• 2:00:35
  The entire episode is going to hinge on whatever you choose.
• 2:00:39
  So, Luke. God.
• 2:00:42
  What have you got for us? Look, I feel bad for Planet of
• 2:00:47
  Fire because it's up against my two favorite stories of all
• 2:00:53
  time. So just briefly, I fucking love
• 2:00:57
  planet of fire. I love camp Peter Wingard.
• 2:01:00
  I love it. I've been watching department S
• 2:01:02
  episodes. He's Jason King is glorious.
• 2:01:06
  I have, and I know he's like one of the he's really gay, but I
• 2:01:13
  buy him as like this chain smoking book, right?
• 2:01:16
  And womanizer. He's amazing.
• 2:01:19
  He's great. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 2:01:21
  Absolutely. But watch him in this and the
• 2:01:23
  faith will come. He's one of the few characters,
• 2:01:27
  like very religious characters who bang on about faith, be it a
• 2:01:32
  fictional faith or a real 1. Can get so preachy and annoying
• 2:01:39
  and grating and make it stop. Please.
• 2:01:41
  Or just I don't know. Peter Wingard in Planet of Fire
• 2:01:45
  plays one of those characters and I think he is like, I can't
• 2:01:49
  take my eyes off him. He's just so watchable and I
• 2:01:54
  think because you see him at 1st and you think like, all right,
• 2:01:57
  he's downplaying it now. But it's a Peter Winger this
• 2:02:00
  way. It's only episode 1.
• 2:02:01
  No, that's, that's the that's the character he plays the whole
• 2:02:05
  story. It's absolutely wonderful.
• 2:02:08
  I love the whole story as well. Master just wants to embiggin
• 2:02:11
  himself. That's it.
• 2:02:14
  I love him. Hailey is having the best time
• 2:02:18
  in that story, isn't he? You will be cremated alive.
• 2:02:24
  I the best bit about that Lou is, is is Perry the shoe?
• 2:02:33
  Oh, why did I choose snake dolls?
• 2:02:34
  I've just remembered all the great things about Flat Out
• 2:02:37
  fire. Oh, you should have.
• 2:02:38
  Let me speak first. Now, I absolutely adore snake
• 2:02:45
  dance. I think it's asking a lot of
• 2:02:49
  similar questions Kinder did, but in a different way.
• 2:02:53
  So in Kinder we're seeing it from the, you know, oh, we're in
• 2:02:58
  your country or planet in this, this thing and oh, you haven't
• 2:03:02
  done this stuff yet. We have.
• 2:03:04
  Look at us. You're a bunch of dumb savages
• 2:03:07
  and things like that. Whereas the snake dancers
• 2:03:11
  looking at it being like, well, the Federation won.
• 2:03:14
  So all that shit about history. Nah, that doesn't matter.
• 2:03:19
  This is an important these facts don't matter, all that kind of
• 2:03:22
  stuff. History is written by the
• 2:03:25
  winners and things like that, and I think it does a better job
• 2:03:31
  of building a culture. I like the fact that snake dance
• 2:03:36
  doesn't make the kinder ancient mystical mumbo jumbo.
• 2:03:43
  I know what happened centuries ago, but what I mean is it's not
• 2:03:47
  like it came out of technology. Like they made these things in
• 2:03:53
  order to better society. And I think we can like, see
• 2:03:58
  maybe not in terms of giant crystals, but other things in
• 2:04:00
  societies face the makers help us out and all this kind of
• 2:04:03
  stuff. And there's just, you know, then
• 2:04:06
  there's this dark side of it. So just the idea of them
• 2:04:11
  building something big enough that when they gazed into the
• 2:04:15
  abyss that stared right back at them, I find absolutely freaking
• 2:04:18
  terrifying. I made I made giant space chimes
• 2:04:22
  and went mad. It's pretty cool, but there's a
• 2:04:27
  reason like this podcast exists. Oh.
• 2:04:34
  The reason this podcast exists is because Kinder came bottom of
• 2:04:39
  season 19 in Doctor Who magazine and be pretty shit if it
• 2:04:46
  couldn't even win best of its era.
• 2:04:48
  But no, I think they're both great.
• 2:04:52
  I think I could flip flop on other days, but it and you know,
• 2:04:59
  I get the chess club bit from just those two dags playing
• 2:05:02
  chess in the dark place to the inside.
• 2:05:04
  But you know, the Marin place. It was always going to be
• 2:05:06
  something Marin easily could have named it like I don't know
• 2:05:12
  what are the finally those Punch and Judy guys had a name in
• 2:05:16
  Snake Dance. Maybe I could have pinched that
• 2:05:18
  instead, but kinda has stuck with me I think just a little
• 2:05:26
  more. It is those two weirdos.
• 2:05:28
  It is DACA. It is the fact that I have an
• 2:05:34
  absolute crush on Mary. I know Mary, she's gorgeous.
• 2:05:38
  So is Janet Fielding, actually. So Sarah Sutton.
• 2:05:41
  But my favorite episode of The Prisoner is Dance of the Dead
• 2:05:44
  with Mary Morris's Peter Pan. I love her and I love hers Pan.
• 2:05:49
  By the way, Peter Wingard is also a number 2.
• 2:05:51
  So hey, there we go. Luke, are you an idiot?
• 2:05:56
  I guess I must be the doctor's figuring things out.
• 2:06:02
  There's a way that the Sonic screwdriver is written out that
• 2:06:06
  makes sense because otherwise these shitty cells and the thing
• 2:06:09
  doctor could have gone out of that right.
• 2:06:11
  So it's in the delta wave augmenter.
• 2:06:14
  I do think in snake dance Bailey, even though there's less
• 2:06:17
  companions, I still think Bailey would have thought I didn't give
• 2:06:23
  Sarah something much to do. Whether she had a week off or
• 2:06:25
  that doesn't matter, but like I didn't give her much to do.
• 2:06:28
  Well, she'll he'll he'll rectify that in the next story.
• 2:06:31
  So I I don't, I try not to savage Kinder so much for not
• 2:06:37
  doing so much with that that one companion.
• 2:06:39
  It makes sense in a story perspective.
• 2:06:41
  She had her brain nearly wiped and changed into an Android or
• 2:06:44
  something. I guess you might want to go for
• 2:06:46
  an app. It makes sense.
• 2:06:48
  So Kinder is how does he even get the job and get
• 2:06:55
  commissioned? It was just it almost got
• 2:06:59
  cancelled, like people didn't know, like big me.
• 2:07:02
  It's just like, oh, this is weird.
• 2:07:04
  Yes, Anthony Ruslake, I'm not sure about this.
• 2:07:09
  Eric Saywood, he wasn't sure about this.
• 2:07:12
  I'm glad he was. I'm glad he even says on the
• 2:07:15
  extras he didn't get it. He didn't get it, but I don't
• 2:07:18
  get it either. And I'm glad he didn't get it
• 2:07:22
  enough to be like, I don't get it.
• 2:07:23
  I want more so. I took all risks when people
• 2:07:28
  gave him credit. I I agree, and I also think like
• 2:07:33
  kinder got me into weird Doctor Who.
• 2:07:37
  I it's my first weird one, right.
• 2:07:40
  So after that I will eventually see things like warriors gate
• 2:07:44
  and ghost light and things things that like I know are
• 2:07:47
  good, but my young brain I'm just like, why?
• 2:07:50
  And then as I get older, I can kind of pick things up and pick
• 2:07:53
  things out of it. Bailey, I think my he's got two
• 2:07:57
  stories with the and I think he's the only person with
• 2:08:00
  multiple stories and he's still like, what?
• 2:08:03
  He's killed one person. That's the he's got one of the
• 2:08:05
  lowest body counts in Doctor Who writing history.
• 2:08:08
  I know I'm mixing them both together.
• 2:08:10
  I do. Love them both.
• 2:08:11
  I genuinely do, I think, I think if you say everything about
• 2:08:15
  Snake Dance having an amazing cast, Kid is always an amazing
• 2:08:19
  cast. They both do like.
• 2:08:22
  Adrian Mills. Really.
• 2:08:26
  So I do, I do love them both. I will give the edge to Kinder
• 2:08:30
  just just because that's the reason Strictly exists, which
• 2:08:36
  tickles me, and also because Strictly is one of my favorite
• 2:08:40
  things to listen to, even if it's an ear or something I'm not
• 2:08:43
  like 100% invested in. I know these podcasts go long, I
• 2:08:47
  know people complain about it whilst they're recording them,
• 2:08:52
  but when I'm listening to them I'm like shut up about it taking
• 2:08:55
  forever and keep talking Doctor fucking.
• 2:08:57
  Who? Is this therapy for you today?
• 2:09:02
  Are you all right? I, I, I get to talk five people.
• 2:09:10
  I don't have to host. It's all it's great.
• 2:09:13
  So this is Hamster's one of my favorite things.
• 2:09:16
  I'm glad Kinder was at least part of an inspiration for it
• 2:09:20
  existing. This.
• 2:09:21
  This is fun. Little little it's their
• 2:09:25
  episodes are long and it would be very fitting if it's still
• 2:09:31
  fucking lost, but I'm going. For it Mark App music has played
• 2:09:36
  for so long now, Paul, make it go even longer.
• 2:09:39
  I mean, we're going to be in deadlock, but you may surprise
• 2:09:43
  me. Let's go.
• 2:09:45
  Right, so where are we at? We've got 2 for Snake dance, 2
• 2:09:48
  for Kinder. That's right.
• 2:09:50
  Which one of my? Children.
• 2:09:51
  You want me to choose one of them?
• 2:09:52
  Really, don't you? Well.
• 2:09:53
  No, no, you choose what you want to choose.
• 2:09:56
  But then we'll try and persuade you for one of the ones with
• 2:09:58
  Chasen. Well.
• 2:10:02
  I think you already know my favorite is Planet of Fire and I
• 2:10:05
  can refer you to my God knows how long defence of it on the
• 2:10:09
  season 21 strictly, you know, it'll be very brief here.
• 2:10:14
  I think it's a story that satisfactorily achieves
• 2:10:16
  everything it sets out to do. Accused of being a shopping
• 2:10:19
  list, but actually all hangs together really well.
• 2:10:21
  It's a good introduction for Perry, a very strong
• 2:10:24
  introduction for her, a good resolution to Turo telo story
• 2:10:27
  art. Chameleon even works well here.
• 2:10:31
  Anthony Amy is on fire as the master.
• 2:10:33
  He's absolutely when he's the chameleon master, particularly,
• 2:10:36
  he is chilling. He's.
• 2:10:40
  Looking in a suit as well. Exactly, if he'd been in that
• 2:10:42
  suit all the time. Yeah, really scary.
• 2:10:45
  People would have had a different opinion because he's
• 2:10:48
  going around in that pantomime outfit, distract something from
• 2:10:51
  the performance. But in that suit, God, he looks
• 2:10:54
  good. Yeah, the track, almost.
• 2:10:57
  Yeah, and that's his motives are clear.
• 2:10:59
  He's not after universal domination yet.
• 2:11:02
  As you say, he wants to get an enlargement.
• 2:11:03
  So who hasn't made these guns? I've made him smaller.
• 2:11:10
  Yes, that card as well. Jesus.
• 2:11:14
  That's what happened if you play with it too much anyway, so all
• 2:11:18
  the regulars are on fine form. As I say, that film work, The
• 2:11:23
  filming is stunning and the music combined with the film
• 2:11:27
  work makes San a real alien world.
• 2:11:32
  And that's what I like in good science fiction.
• 2:11:35
  I like it to take me somewhere completely different from what I
• 2:11:39
  know. And when I watched this back in
• 2:11:41
  the Age, I've never been to Lanzarote, so it looks so alien.
• 2:11:45
  The soundscape was incredible. It just felt brilliant.
• 2:11:50
  You've mentioned Peter Wingard, that incredibly sympathetic, the
• 2:11:54
  performance of the religious zealot.
• 2:12:00
  Yeah, I love it all. And if there's been not a lot of
• 2:12:04
  smut in there, so there's a lot of flesh on display as well.
• 2:12:06
  So let's get that in there. Everybody surefire.
• 2:12:10
  Absolutely. I was tired, Turlo.
• 2:12:12
  In his pants. I mean, good God.
• 2:12:15
  Oh, army under his. Shirt, but he kept his shirt.
• 2:12:18
  On I know. And took his trousers.
• 2:12:20
  Off He's got to have a skinny body, Lucy.
• 2:12:23
  Yeah, that below. Anyway, so that is my that is my
• 2:12:30
  favorite story, but I did have a second favorite which I thought.
• 2:12:34
  No, wait, Paul. Paul, I want to throw in a
• 2:12:37
  curveball, OK? Talking about Planet of Fire,
• 2:12:41
  you've just reminded me of all the things that I love about
• 2:12:44
  that story. I mean, it's so fun, isn't it?
• 2:12:47
  It's so great. Sorry, everybody.
• 2:12:50
  My vote is changing. I'm voting for Planet of Fire on
• 2:12:55
  the strength of Turlo's pants. Oh.
• 2:12:59
  In that case, I'm keeping my vote.
• 2:13:01
  Oh. Wait, that's still a deadlock
• 2:13:05
  though, isn't it? That's still a deadlock.
• 2:13:08
  Oh fuck, that means we've got a trunk of it's Diane then.
• 2:13:11
  No, wait, what would you have chosen from the other two?
• 2:13:14
  Well, I would have gone for kinder.
• 2:13:16
  It wins. Get out of the tone.
• 2:13:19
  No, wait, but are you choosing Kindle?
• 2:13:21
  You're sticking with a planet of fire.
• 2:13:22
  Well, I don't know. Is anyone else going to change?
• 2:13:26
  Can anyone else be swayed? No, no, no, no.
• 2:13:31
  You know, Panfi is fabulous. Yeah, I was just throwing that
• 2:13:34
  in just to irritate everyone listening because they'd be
• 2:13:37
  like, what is happening here? No, no, no, I'm sticking with
• 2:13:40
  snake dance. So I guess we do have a winner,
• 2:13:42
  right? I will go for kinder.
• 2:13:46
  It's it's the story. When I watched it in season 19,
• 2:13:50
  I know it came bottom of the DWM pole and I kind of agreed at the
• 2:13:54
  time as a kid it was kind of the boring one.
• 2:13:57
  Not boring. It wasn't boring.
• 2:13:58
  I loved it still because it was Doctor Who, but I could see I
• 2:14:02
  could see the limitations of the studio filming.
• 2:14:04
  I could see it didn't have the action of some of the others.
• 2:14:09
  Over the years. I realized as I became a
• 2:14:11
  teenager or later teenager, I realized that that was a story I
• 2:14:15
  was going back to more than any sort of kindred.
• 2:14:19
  Planet of Fire were the sort of most watched stories through my
• 2:14:22
  later teens and into my it's 20s and oh, it's the most amount of
• 2:14:26
  male. Flesh in those two stories as
• 2:14:29
  well. Kinder and Planet Fire I've
• 2:14:31
  noticed. Now you've put your finger on
• 2:14:33
  it, haven't you? I didn't.
• 2:14:38
  I actually haven't made that connection before.
• 2:14:39
  About hairy chess and kinder if. We add power accrual to this
• 2:14:45
  then hey. They're green.
• 2:14:50
  I know. Yeah.
• 2:14:53
  So kinda is that story which really, really grew on me that I
• 2:14:56
  started to appreciate more and more and more the more I watched
• 2:15:00
  it. Then hold out your hand.
• 2:15:24
  Must be painful, don't you think?
• 2:15:25
  For. Heaven.
• 2:15:26
  'S sake When I was a boy I was beaten every day.
• 2:15:29
  Never did me any harm, made me the man I am.
• 2:15:32
  Look, I have a silence. All right, speak out.
• 2:15:36
  What is it? Well, I was simply going to
• 2:15:37
  suggest that you banished him from the Dome, left him at the
• 2:15:39
  mercy of the trees. No, no, the trees have no mercy.
• 2:15:44
  Oh yes, I was forgetting. Weren't you?
• 2:15:48
  Must I think of everything myself?
• 2:15:55
  But I wish to announce the procedure to affect the
• 2:15:59
  punishment of ADRIC implementation.
• 2:16:02
  And it's possible. Sanders.
• 2:16:14
  Go away somebody make him go away.
• 2:16:21
  Mummy, Mummy, make me go away. Mr. Sanders has returned.
• 2:16:31
  Good. Perhaps now we can.
• 2:16:35
  And he's bought me a present, haven't you?
• 2:16:38
  Yes. Can I sit down?
• 2:16:46
  And therefore I will happily change my vote for Kinder.
• 2:16:51
  Kinder wins the 5th Doctor special now I don't think anyone
• 2:16:56
  can say that's a bad win, right? I don't think any of the stories
• 2:17:00
  we had to choose from were no, I mean, I know that that people
• 2:17:04
  that that there are people who think perhaps less, a little
• 2:17:09
  less of planet fire than the others, but I really like it.
• 2:17:12
  I love it. Yeah.
• 2:17:14
  Really, it's so I can't believe the master gets incinerated at
• 2:17:17
  the end of it. It's pretty doctor.
• 2:17:21
  Doesn't the passive one the nice one at the open?
• 2:17:24
  Place. Yes, he said.
• 2:17:25
  I'm not, I'm not. I'm not going to stop you, but
• 2:17:27
  I'm not going to save you. Yeah.
• 2:17:29
  Nothing is more chilling than you can't mend people, can you?
• 2:17:34
  You can't mend. That really, that really
• 2:17:37
  disturbed me. The I mean, I imagine it
• 2:17:39
  disturbed me the first time I watched it, but the second time
• 2:17:41
  I what? The second time when I watched
• 2:17:43
  it as an adult. Really disturbing performance
• 2:17:47
  from Simon Rouse. Just horrible.
• 2:17:50
  Really good, but horrible. Oh, Mummy put the lights on.
• 2:17:54
  Yeah. Awful.
• 2:17:54
  Oh my God. Yeah.
• 2:17:57
  And actually, you're right. Richard Todd as well, when he's
• 2:17:59
  got that sort of serene look on it.
• 2:18:01
  I. Mean after afterwards we find
• 2:18:02
  out that actually it's it's fine with Richard Todd more or less.
• 2:18:07
  But at the time when he comes in and he just smiles.
• 2:18:10
  Should nourish shoes have jumped into the Tardis?
• 2:18:16
  Oh, everyone's gone Quiet. I'm.
• 2:18:18
  Guessing, I don't know. I mean, there, there wasn't,
• 2:18:20
  there wasn't necessarily room at that point.
• 2:18:22
  So they would have actually booted somebody out.
• 2:18:25
  And also, I think by the end you've kind of forgotten that
• 2:18:30
  actually she was one of the baddies.
• 2:18:32
  Yeah, you're also going to think like, are you all surprised by
• 2:18:36
  right now? Like I'm going to blow all your
• 2:18:38
  minds nearest Hughes has done Big finish.
• 2:18:41
  No, no, we do. Never done a Davidson story.
• 2:18:44
  Yeah. Like what are you doing?
• 2:18:46
  Sorry. She plays Margaret, of course,
• 2:18:49
  the Batty old woman. She's wonderful.
• 2:18:52
  I mean, but I think with Kinder and Snake Dance both being in
• 2:18:55
  the running there, Yeah, let's pull Planet Fire out just for a
• 2:18:58
  second. It just goes to show, one, what
• 2:19:00
  a fine Christopher Bailey was. But two, that and I don't, I
• 2:19:05
  throw a lot of shade at Eric's ward, but like he coaxed Kinder
• 2:19:10
  into the script that it was that we got.
• 2:19:12
  And then he said, God, that guy's got something.
• 2:19:14
  I don't quite get it, but he's got something.
• 2:19:16
  And he gave him another shot. And that worked like gangbusters
• 2:19:19
  as well. I think it's so easy to throw
• 2:19:22
  shade a poor Eric, and I think he takes far more risk than
• 2:19:26
  people give him credit. Tell me I'm wrong.
• 2:19:28
  There's some, but not all of it. Absolutely.
• 2:19:32
  Yeah, I mean Lucy, The Visitation.
• 2:19:34
  I love Revelation of the Daleks. I love visitation and after all,
• 2:19:38
  what was the Who's under Hugh's tenure was the first story that
• 2:19:41
  was both written and directed by a woman.
• 2:19:44
  Yes, indeed. And you know the?
• 2:19:46
  Only one in classic history, yeah.
• 2:19:48
  Unfortunately barely mentioned that, but that is another
• 2:19:51
  stunner in this era. Yeah, I think he gets a lot of
• 2:19:55
  hate for his work on Colin's era.
• 2:19:58
  More than Davison, I think like. Madness.
• 2:20:02
  When? When?
• 2:20:03
  Davidson gets the blame because, oh, it it started here.
• 2:20:07
  And I guess you can trace it. You can.
• 2:20:10
  But it comes to the fore. You're right, Dan.
• 2:20:12
  Yeah. But but is is sort of like total
• 2:20:15
  dislike of Colin being the Doctor, and therefore he he's
• 2:20:19
  more interested in telling the stories of peripheral
• 2:20:22
  characters. Mercenaries.
• 2:20:25
  Yeah. At.
• 2:20:26
  Which point he probably should have left.
• 2:20:28
  Yeah, yeah. Oh.
• 2:20:29
  Certainly when it was car and then came back again, he
• 2:20:32
  probably should have left at that point.
• 2:20:34
  Yeah, that's one of those what ifs.
• 2:20:37
  Well, kinder, I think everybody but our home is probably going.
• 2:20:40
  Yes. If it had been Planet A fire,
• 2:20:43
  they would have all been tearing their airs out.
• 2:20:45
  But we love it. Oh, I don't know.
• 2:20:47
  I would have been. Happy, I think all the stories
• 2:20:49
  that were, that were equally worthy of being the winner.
• 2:20:54
  One thing I noticed amongst what we were saying and what
• 2:20:57
  everybody in the comments was saying, nobody pointed at Peter
• 2:21:00
  Davison and said he did a bad job.
• 2:21:02
  I think that as a collective opinion is that it was a good
• 2:21:06
  casting choice and he committed well, yes, OK, I agree.
• 2:21:15
  Well, thank you very much. Thank you.
• 2:21:18
  Fine celebration of the 5th Doctor's era.
• 2:21:21
  Can I ask you, fine people please to tell everybody where
• 2:21:25
  you are online, where they can find you another podcast where
• 2:21:28
  they can see delicious shirtless pics?
• 2:21:31
  Lucy, you go first. Well, I don't have any of those,
• 2:21:35
  and if I did, they certainly wouldn't be delicious.
• 2:21:41
  I've got 5 dinosaur puppet pictures, you know.
• 2:21:43
  Yes, absolutely. I'm on Blue Sky and I'm sort of
• 2:21:47
  on Instagram and Facebook, but I'm kind of lurking rather than
• 2:21:49
  posting on those because I'm finding multiple social social
• 2:21:54
  media outlets a bit tiresome to manage at the moment.
• 2:21:57
  I have a fan fiction on A Teaspoon and Open Mind and
• 2:22:04
  there's three Fifth Doctors stories on there. 1 is a failed
• 2:22:08
  entry to the Big Finish competition which is about
• 2:22:11
  knitting. There's one about which was
• 2:22:15
  inspired by. I'm sure Mark Strickson says
• 2:22:17
  this at every convention he goes to, but he said he would go back
• 2:22:19
  to Doctor Who if Turlo could be the baddie.
• 2:22:22
  So I wrote a story about Turlo being the baddie and then the
• 2:22:26
  other one is about the Mara coming back and taking over the
• 2:22:29
  Doctor instead of Tegan. I have a book that's still
• 2:22:33
  available. I think.
• 2:22:36
  Based on Miss Hawthorne from the Demons and Sergeant Benton
• 2:22:39
  solving mysteries in the 70s and eating scones.
• 2:22:42
  It's brilliant, by the way. The nice people at 2 Corner to
• 2:22:46
  Corner have turned some of my stories into audio adventures
• 2:22:49
  too. Wonderful, lovely listed.
• 2:22:52
  Now check all that out people. Paul, where can people find your
• 2:22:56
  opinion? Sorry, where can people find you
• 2:22:58
  online? Well I'm on Instagram and blue
• 2:23:02
  Sky and it's my username is my name Apple Cresser?
• 2:23:06
  I still lurk on XA little bit but don't post so much there
• 2:23:11
  these days. That's about it really.
• 2:23:15
  I've appeared on one podcast before and that was the season
• 2:23:18
  21 strictly, so this is only my second time.
• 2:23:21
  You were responsible for planet or fire getting fire as well,
• 2:23:24
  you know. I nearly nearly achieved the
• 2:23:28
  domination with it. Oh, we must do the Planet of
• 2:23:31
  Fire commentary. You know, just.
• 2:23:33
  To. Oh, definitely.
• 2:23:39
  Now, I do believe you've got something to plug.
• 2:23:43
  I yes, I, I, I do a wrestling now.
• 2:23:46
  I know I do a podcast based on the on Peter Davison, zero,
• 2:23:53
  Doctor Who, Lucy and Joe have been on it.
• 2:23:58
  Mr. Dan and I have plans for March and Mr. Paul.
• 2:24:03
  Chris will get Adm at some point because he's he's seemed pretty
• 2:24:08
  lovely today and he's lovely on the blue sky and stuff too.
• 2:24:12
  We never thank you. Very.
• 2:24:13
  Much if he turns up shirtless for you.
• 2:24:15
  All right, We're going to have words, Paul.
• 2:24:17
  All right. I mean, he could say no and that
• 2:24:20
  would be embarrassing. Like who could be on Joe's
• 2:24:23
  podcast? Oh.
• 2:24:26
  No one could say no to you. It's so yes, it's all, it's
• 2:24:32
  mostly the 5th Doctor all the time and all that kind of stuff.
• 2:24:36
  The Mara and Chess Club is the name of it.
• 2:24:38
  I'm very happy Kinder one. I would have been just as happy
• 2:24:41
  with snake Dance, but because I chose Kinder and at one, it
• 2:24:44
  makes it all of it all the sweeter, you know, that that
• 2:24:48
  that that thing. I'm on blue sky, grumpy to eBay
• 2:24:51
  and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
• 2:24:53
  Thank you. Grumpy.
• 2:24:55
  You're never grumpy. Oh, Ashley, sometimes you are.
• 2:24:58
  Yeah, well, the most one of the most beautiful souls I know.
• 2:25:02
  Mr. Dan Pin. Where can people find you?
• 2:25:06
  Yeah, I'm on Blue Sky and Instagram and a little bit of
• 2:25:12
  Facebook. I'm not on Twitter anymore.
• 2:25:14
  I've kicked that into touch. My Twitter password.
• 2:25:18
  And then I was just like, yeah, fuck it.
• 2:25:19
  Yeah, no, I deleted my account. Yeah, sometimes you hear me on
• 2:25:27
  the Hamster Book Club podcast with Joe and Gareth and David
• 2:25:35
  where we talk a bit about Doctor Who books.
• 2:25:37
  And I suppose I'm the I suppose I'm the book clubs resident
• 2:25:41
  artists Jones kind of keeping me busy with lots of commissions
• 2:25:46
  for that which I I well, Joe shares them on on on social
• 2:25:52
  media, but I also do a bit of that as well and people.
• 2:25:54
  Know it's me every time you send me a picture, every time you
• 2:25:57
  bring another one of those book characters to life and send me
• 2:26:00
  the photograph of it. I mean, I come in my knickers.
• 2:26:03
  I'm so excited. Sorry, I don't.
• 2:26:06
  I just, I don't know if you know this, Mr. Dan, but for the
• 2:26:11
  longest time. There he is.
• 2:26:16
  Can you explain that this is a podcast?
• 2:26:19
  Sorry everyone, my my fix, my fist, my phone wallpaper is Dan
• 2:26:25
  Pin's artist rendition of Fitz Criner.
• 2:26:28
  So from the 8th of the novel. So yeah.
• 2:26:30
  Excuse me, I've got one as well. Thank you very much.
• 2:26:33
  I've got the Doctor, Fitz and Angie.
• 2:26:36
  I haven't, and I drew. Although I have to say I took
• 2:26:42
  all the bookmarks and stickers to the to the meeting the other
• 2:26:45
  day and they were going like the Argos catalog.
• 2:26:49
  Yes, thank you, Dad. That is beautiful.
• 2:26:51
  Our work. Again, thank you for continuing
• 2:26:53
  to do that. Thank you for asking, I'm loving
• 2:26:56
  it. Well, I'm usually here and
• 2:26:59
  there's a lot of this that comes out so people know where I am.
• 2:27:03
  How do we end this in a Peter Davidson sort of a way?
• 2:27:09
  Don't say there should have been another way.
• 2:27:11
  Oh no, sorry mustache. Oh yes.
• 2:27:16
  Oh, no way. The usual strictly ending isn't
• 2:27:20
  there after it's been so long I've forgotten.
• 2:27:21
  Do you remember? What it is usually keep.
• 2:27:26
  Keep. Listening.
• 2:27:28
  Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 321.
• 2:27:38
  Bye everyone. My God, that sounded like an
• 2:27:44
  episode of Rainbow. The.
• 2:29:03
  The.