Latest / The Love Drive with Shaun Galanos / Men, masculinity & the loneliness epidemic with Therapy Jeff

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Men, masculinity & the loneliness epidemic with Therapy Jeff · The Love Drive with Shaun Galanos

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But I don't want to. I don't want a long distance
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relationship. Jeff Too bad,
0:19
OK, welcome to the Love Very podcast, everybody.
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My name is Sean Galinos, and our guest today is none other than
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social media therapist to the stars, Therapy Jeff.
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Very fun episode, lots of quippy, sassy advice.
0:34
And then we go into some more deeper stuff as well, especially
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personally speaking. So today we talk about the male
0:42
loneliness epidemic, why men still aren't going to therapy,
0:46
and who's partly to blame. Scott Galloway as a red pill
0:49
gateway, the manosphere slash red pill, black pill stuff, the
0:55
real cost of rejection in dating, small town dating and
0:59
how to ask for a first kiss without being weird about it.
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And as always, we start with how we're actually doing and neither
1:05
of us hold back. So please enjoy this
1:08
conversation with Therapy Jeff. So everybody, Therapy Jeff is
1:12
here. Do you want to just give like a
1:13
just a quick intro? You know me as therapy Jeff on
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Instagram and Tiktok. I'm a licensed professional
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counselor. I've been a therapist for over
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20 years. I live in Portland, OR.
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That's where I see clients. I'm not accepting clients, don't
1:29
reach out and I'm mostly online talk about relationships, excuse
1:35
monogamous my content, but I like to talk about non
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monogamous and alternative relationships too.
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And the folks that I see are typically in for like
1:46
relationship counseling or couples counseling, stuff like
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that. Well, living in Portland, there
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is a little bit of, you know, alternative relationship
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structures out there. There is.
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There's a lot. It's.
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Probably helpful to have some Intel on non monogamy and
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polyamory and. Yeah.
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I mean, whether if you're a, you know, a relationship therapist
2:05
in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, liberal progressive
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cities, whether you like it or not, you're going to start
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talking to folks that are in polychules and non monogamous
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relationships or anarchy or whatever it is.
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So you're going to have to like, figure it out.
2:21
Yeah, cool. I have some topics that I want
2:24
to discuss with you today. Mainly I want to jam on
2:27
masculinity. You know I love.
2:29
Jamming on that. I bet, yeah, the male loneliness
2:33
epidemic and then also how that relates to dating and
2:36
relationship structures. And I've got some Q&A.
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I've got some, yeah, some areas that we can sort of jam on
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there. Yeah.
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Well, first of all, you have to tell me how you're doing.
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Yes. OK, so it's December 10th.
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On December 8th, a couple days ago, on Monday, Monday morning
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of December 8th, me and my girlfriend took a flight down to
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LA. That's where I grew up in Los
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Angeles. That's where my whole family is
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because my aunt passed away pretty suddenly.
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The most like stressful, anxious part about that is that I
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haven't seen or talked to my mother or sister or
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brother-in-law for four years. So it's a, it's a, it's a lot
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like, why isn't Jeff talking to his family?
3:22
What's wrong with Jeff sort of narrative?
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So it's like fucking stepping into this bullshit.
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I don't want to. There's also like, I want to
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have a conversation with every single one of them being like,
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let me fucking tell you what's really going on.
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But also it's a funeral. And even if it wasn't a funeral,
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I don't want to have that fucking conversation.
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I'm bringing my girlfriend and they haven't like we've been
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together for a couple years, but nobody's met her.
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So she's like this very sort of mysterious figure that I'm
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bringing down to Los Angeles to the funeral.
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So she's being like very sweet and supportive, but I was
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anxious the whole time. Like do I say hello to my
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mother? Do I say hi to my sister, my
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brother-in-law? Do I interact with their kids?
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Like I like their kids? I used to be close with my
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niece, but are they going to say hi to me?
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Do I let them make that move? There's just so many questions.
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And so you're going into it just sort of like reading, trying to
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read the vibe. My mom, I was like, I saw her
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first and I was like, oh, she's making eye contact with me.
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And I think she's trying to sustain eye contact with me to
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figure out if she should come up and say hello to me.
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And my girlfriend's just, you know, being a sweetie and
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inventing to her about it. And then there's like my sister,
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who's a slightly older sister and her husband, they've been
4:42
together for 30 years. So I've, I've known them since
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they like got together in high school and they're like high
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school sweethearts. And then we're together forever.
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And so he was the sort of like older brother figure to me.
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So there was this party and it's just like, if I talk to anybody
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or if anybody comes up to me, I hope it's that guy.
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But that whole family, my mom, my, my sister, brother-in-law,
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the kids, we all stayed on opposite ends of the room,
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whether it's like in the anyways, at the funeral,
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nobody's talking to anybody and that's fine.
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And then two hours go by, I have to go because I have to like me
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and my girlfriend. I have to get back to LAX
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because the plane leaves in 4 1/2 hours.
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And that's way too close for comfort to start.
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Like before we like drive off, we get in the car, we're sitting
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there waiting for people to pass by us so that I can pull out.
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And my mother is sort of walking towards the car.
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My brother in And he's gives the signal like
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roll down the window. Then my girlfriend's sitting in
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the passenger's seat. He's knocking on my window.
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I roll it down and he looks at me and says, hey, you're a
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fucking asshole. And I roll it down, thinking
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that this is going to be a peace offering or like, hey, I see
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you, you know, sort of like, I love you kind of whether you say
6:16
it or not, I don't know. But he said, hey, you're a
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fucking asshole. And that was so shocking to me.
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And right when he said that, my girlfriend again, who they've
6:27
never met, sort of lunges over me and says hey fuck you get the
6:32
fuck out of here. And she's like out of nowhere
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just defends me and starts yelling at him and he's shocked
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and he just like walks away. So I was like, I didn't really
6:45
get to say anything because I didn't know what the fuck was
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going on, but I felt so protected by my girlfriend.
6:54
Like it just sort of like happened.
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She wasn't even able to control herself.
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And I always like wanted somebody to like stand up for me
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in the family. And so there was something that
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felt like really healing about that.
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There was also something that felt really upsetting that like
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the guy, the brother-in-law who I thought we were like, maybe
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we're on sort of good terms possibly like he was the one out
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of everybody who said like, Hey, you're a fucking asshole.
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So then we leave and it's that thing, I don't know if you've
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experienced this, Sean, where like a thing happens that you
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weren't expecting even though you were like, what if I do talk
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to my family? What will I say?
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How will I say it? What are the zingers or what are
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the emotional things I'd want to get out or whatever.
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I didn't have any time to actually say that.
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So the whole rest of like the driving to LAX, which we barely
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mean the fucking plane, and then being on the plane and going
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back to Portland, it's just me and my girlfriend ruminating
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about like, what could I have said?
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What would have even been better been like, OK, thanks fucking
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failed child actor, get the fuck out of here.
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Or like some sort like that wouldn't have been good at all,
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right? But there's like a part of you,
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of course, Like, you know what I mean?
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Oh, yeah, absolutely. OK, so that's a lot.
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I have a few things to say if you have if I may.
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You may. One is I'm sorry for your loss.
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Thank you. I think it's hard to lose people
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who we think fondly of. I think it's even hard to lose
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people that we don't think fondly of, right?
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Like it's, it's not an easy thing.
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So that, and then I'm also just sad by the whole situation, you
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know, like it's a funeral where we're supposed to be like
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grieving the aunt. And then there's all this other
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stuff happening. But you mentioned all the
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anxiety of, you know, what do I say something?
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So you got to look at me is all this stuff.
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How do you deal with that anxiety?
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I. Mean I'm a real like planner of
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anxiety. I'm just like, OK, I know myself
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well enough to know when I'm going to feel anxious about
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specific things. I, I used to have every now and
8:57
then like sort of severe anxiety or panic attacks.
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Well, yeah, especially when I was younger, I would have lots
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of panic attacks immediately so that I would faint.
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So there was no like, I did a lot of fainting.
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My body would just be like, we're playing dead.
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You're you're protecting you. You're gone from this from here.
9:17
And it was very silly stuff like I thought it was.
9:20
I was always afraid. Like I was afraid that if a
9:22
friend was going to get hurt, that was like really scary for
9:25
me. And I would faint.
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So somebody was going to get hurt.
9:28
So I played a lot of sports and I would just sort of faint on
9:30
the ground in, in the field. It was a thing.
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And then eventually this like I was like, I was able to slow
9:36
that down and feel my anxiety before it just like hijacked me.
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And then it kind of turned into like a fear of being seen or a
9:43
fear of public speaking like sort of the classic ones.
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And, and now it's like the anxiety will come up if I'm like
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in these really strange emotionally pressurized
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situations like at this funeral with my family, yada, yada.
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And there's a lot of things there's kind of like I'm going
10:01
to make sure that I am regulating my nervous system the
10:04
best way I can. So I'm going to try to stay
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cool. I'm going to not overheat.
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I'm going to like do deep breathing just like real body
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stuff shit, which is like 80% of it for me.
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For a lot of people. Yeah, and it's also like it like
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that took a while for me to like realize and integrate and then
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do that. If I just manage my body, then
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I'm way ahead of the game. And I'm also like, I used to be
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a real anticipatory anxiety guy where I'm just constantly
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thinking of all the things that I'm going to have to do, all the
10:40
worst case scenarios eventually. I, I was like, you know what,
10:44
like if I'm going to freak out, I'm going to wait and see if I
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actually freak out. I'm not going to freak out
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beforehand. If I'm going to have an anxiety
10:51
attack, I'll have it in the moment when I should be having
10:54
it, not pre having an anxiety attack.
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Like I don't, I may actually be OK.
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I may be able to like manage everything I typically do.
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So let's see if there's something to freak out about.
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And if there is, I will allow myself to faint or scream or run
11:09
away or do whatever I need to do.
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And that usually makes me feel a lot better going into the
11:14
situation. And then if I have a buddy, my
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girlfriend, a friend, a cousin that I really love, that's going
11:20
to be there that I can talk to. I just like stick to my buddy
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and that usually helps out. Well, it's good that you had
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your girlfriend to stick up for you in case you fainted.
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She could catch me. Or or protect you or whatever.
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Are you OK with switching gears? Yeah, let's switch it up.
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I do want to say that you mentioned that your
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brother-in-law, you and him have a simpler relationship, right?
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It's not fraught. It was at least it's not fraught
11:45
with all this other stuff. And so I'm wondering, this seems
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like a good time to kind of transition into talking about
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men. Is it because men are just kind
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of simpler creatures that we're able to have these simpler
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conversations or relationships with them?
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You know, it depends. There is I'm not going to be
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able to like quote the research or something or give you like
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the actual scientific like Nuggets.
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But there has been a lot of research and science comparing
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like man brains to women brains and it does seem like the man
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brains. I don't know, kind of are a
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little simpler in that they're not as are like brain
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hemispheres are not as connected as like the women brain
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hemispheres, which makes it so that like we don't process
12:39
emotions as much or in a more complicated or nuanced sort of
12:44
way that we just like don't have as many neural pathways.
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So like, our frontal lobe, there's not as many, like,
12:52
neural pathways from our frontal lobe to our amygdala or to the
12:54
limbic system that holds all the emotions.
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So if, like, a scientist maybe wanted to make the case for
13:00
like, well, men's brains are made differently.
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Sure. And that means that, like, they
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don't process emotions in the same way.
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Yeah. And is it because, like, they
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just don't have, like, as much access to it as women do
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Possibly. Is there some sort of like, you
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know, evolutionary psychology reason for this?
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Likely. But when you go down the like
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evolutionary psychology rabbit hole, it's real easy to get
13:25
sexist or racist. Like it's real.
13:28
Like, well, this is how like men were like hunters and gatherers
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and and we were like meant to spread our seeds.
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So this is what we're gonna fucking do.
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Like as if we don't have agency over that now, as if we don't
13:39
have control or this is just how we're biologically wired.
13:42
Whatever bro. Like I cheated actually.
13:45
It's just how it is. Nothing I can do right going
13:49
against my DNA. Like I don't believe that, but
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I'm like interested in the evolutionary psychology of it
13:56
all. So I think sure, probably our
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men like simpler. I think it might be yes.
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But it's mostly because of the patriarchy.
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It's mostly because of like cultural conditioning.
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And it's not like we can't do something about it.
14:11
But like men being men, it historically has really served
14:16
us. And this sort of like I don't
14:19
have to emotionally evolve or be like a really emotionally
14:23
intelligent partner because if I'm, you know, attracted to
14:27
women, if I'm a heterosexual and I want to be with a woman, then
14:31
the woman historically has needed me for access to a credit
14:35
card or mortgage or resources. Resources, right?
14:39
That's, you know, has been getting flipped.
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That's been like trending the other way, which is like made it
14:45
so that men maybe have to like actually step up and be good
14:47
partners in different ways. Some have done it, many have
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not. And it's an interesting time
14:52
that we're in. But going back to your good
14:55
requested, I'm a kid of the 80s and 90s and there's lots of like
15:00
patriarchy going on the back then that I was unaware of that
15:05
was influencing me and my relationships with my guy
15:08
friends. I only had like friendships with
15:11
boys when I was a boy. Those felt really simple.
15:15
And those were like based on kind of like power dynamics of
15:19
where we all ranked in the friend group or who had the
15:22
alcohol or who had the drugs or who had the Nintendo or who had
15:25
access to girls or something. Like there was there.
15:29
It was yes, exactly. It was all based on status.
15:31
And that was very easy to understand.
15:33
And if our feelings got hurt, you didn't say anything about
15:37
it, but you might get punched in the chest or something if
15:39
somebody was, you know, so like, it felt more simple because I
15:45
didn't have to, like, develop complicated emotional language,
15:49
you know? Yeah.
15:50
What do you think? Yeah, you bring up a bunch of
15:52
good points. I'm actually kind of, I'm just
15:55
thinking to my current male relationships that I have in my
15:58
life now and how it's actually more complicated to be in a
16:04
simple relationship when something isn't going well
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because it's harder to access what's actually wrong.
16:13
And so this has come up, not personally with my male friends,
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but I have a friend whose male partner just basically shuts
16:19
down whenever anything challenging comes up and he
16:24
starts speaking in a low voice. And it's just frustrating
16:28
because she really wants to be there for him and she wants him
16:32
to use his voice and to vocalize what's wrong so they can feel
16:36
even more connected and more intimate.
16:38
And it just feels like when you're, when you don't have the
16:41
ability to talk about what's going on in your internal
16:44
landscape and your emotional insides, it's kind of limiting
16:48
to the to the depth of the of the relationship.
16:51
Yeah, until the depth of your life, I feel like you don't get
16:54
to experience life like a full spectrum of life, you know, the
16:59
rainbow of emotions that are out there to be experienced.
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So I feel like that's also pretty limiting as well.
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I am thinking about my, my male friendships and I do have
17:08
several men who I'm able to just really open up to one in
17:13
particular who just started like last year, like fell into the
17:17
NVC, the nonviolent communication, like, and, and
17:21
now he's like surpassed me in talking about needs and making
17:26
requests and like really validating my experience.
17:29
And he's the kind of guy that now when you say something sad,
17:32
will go like, and I'm like, dude, when did you start doing
17:38
that? Like, he used to be the guy,
17:40
Brian, I love you. You used to be the guy who
17:42
would, like, kind of call me gay if I, you know, shared something
17:46
of an emotional nature. But it's made our relationship
17:50
much more closer and we're able to support each other in a way
17:52
that feels really good. And I was actually threatened by
17:54
it. You know, it's felt threatening
17:56
to be in a relationship where they seem to be able to access
17:59
more emotional intelligence and maturity than I am.
18:02
So now I'm feeling like maybe a lot of men feel in a
18:05
heterosexual relationship where their female partner seems to be
18:09
able to talk about and access and discuss things that are
18:14
emotional in nature more than I can.
18:17
And so then I feel like I'm on the back foot and I feel a
18:19
little bit more defensive. And I sort of I'm the one who
18:22
kind of loses my voice. Interesting.
18:27
Do you have, well, I wasn't say guy friends, but any gender
18:30
friends that can't really get really deep?
18:33
And do you value those friendships?
18:35
Do you enjoy having those friendships?
18:38
Yeah, interesting. I don't know that I would
18:42
prioritize those relationships because I'm much more likely to
18:47
jump into how are you doing, how's your heart?
18:49
What's hard for you these days? Conversation then Like, you
18:53
know, how's your bench? I do have a like a few guys in
18:59
my life that really mostly talk about basketball or I play video
19:03
games with them or you get a drink and eat wings real, you
19:07
know, guy stuff. And while maybe I don't see them
19:11
very often, I see them pretty consistently.
19:14
And there is a bit of like, oh, this is nice.
19:17
I'm on a little vacation. Like we're just talking about
19:20
the Portland show Blazers for the last hour and a half.
19:23
And that's fantastic. I have so much to say about
19:26
them. And I know where the guardrails
19:28
are and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna try to fucking open up to
19:31
them about some complicated family issue.
19:34
It's pointless and I will just be disappointed.
19:37
So I, I know where those guardrails are and they're sort
19:39
of relieving in a way. Do you experience that?
19:42
I mean, I like where you're going with this and I think I
19:44
also have spaces where I am not going deep.
19:48
Like I volunteer at a bike shop every Tuesday night and all we
19:52
do is we talk about bikes and and bike paths and tires with
19:57
studs and the benefits of. Oval cranks and regular cranks
20:02
and, and, and that's just, it's fun, you know, it's fun, but
20:05
also these people, if they say, how you doing, they go, man, not
20:08
so good. They'll be like, oh, what's
20:09
going on? You know, like they're able to
20:11
also go there. And so I think I would just feel
20:14
so limited with people who aren't able to kind of switch
20:18
just to check in and say, I see you also, I need your help with
20:21
this tire, right? Like I like to be able to kind
20:24
of jump in and out of that kind of stuff.
20:26
All right, How do we get more straight men to do therapy?
20:30
You're like a social media therapist to the stars.
20:35
You must have some thoughts on like why aren't straight men
20:39
going to therapy and and how how do we invite them into those
20:42
spaces? I'm still mostly at a loss.
20:45
Do you know who Scott Galloway is?
20:47
Yeah, he was later in my interview notes.
20:50
You know, what's your beef with Scott Galloway?
20:53
Yeah. I saw the video that you made.
20:55
We'll link to it in the show. Notes.
20:56
Sure, sure. Yeah, there was.
20:58
Yeah. I made a video.
20:59
Then he made a comment on the video.
21:01
Then he wrote an article calling out TikTok therapists, and I
21:04
made a response to that. It's basically a rap battle.
21:07
It's very intense, but maybe not at all.
21:10
I think like he is so appealing to men and I think, you know,
21:17
he's like he's trying at least his intention is like directed
21:20
at like more liberal progressive guys.
21:23
So he like, says he's not part of the manosphere and he's not
21:26
like a Nick Fuentes or Charlie Kirk type or.
21:30
Background on Scott Galloway. He's an NYU professor.
21:32
He is. Of business.
21:35
Economics. Of economics and I, I think he's
21:37
very, he's very, very wealthy. He's sold a company called
21:39
Pivot, if I'm not mistaken. He's got a podcast with what's
21:42
her name? Yep.
21:43
I don't remember, but and he wrote a book, What's a notes on
21:48
Men, I think, or something like that.
21:50
He's been doing a book tour and he is very good at being on a
21:55
podcast, telling a story. He's engaging, he's got the
21:59
facts. He hammers home his talking
22:01
points. Oh God, he's so fucking good.
22:03
If I was that good, I'd have just as much money as he does.
22:06
I have a different type of like style that I'm good at.
22:10
So while he's not like the manosphere, I do think that he
22:13
can sort of act as like a pipeline to being red pilled
22:16
because he's like he can acknowledge that like men need
22:19
to level up emotionally, but he's like, it's what's most
22:22
important is that most important is that a man has a wife or a
22:28
girlfriend, a partner, because that will make them feel solid
22:33
in life. That will make them feel of
22:34
value. If a man can feel like a
22:37
provider and he'll go back into like the evolutionary psychology
22:40
of it all, then they feel like they are worthy and they won't
22:44
kill themselves or they won't fall into depression as long as
22:47
they have a woman there to like be in a relationship with.
22:50
They live longer if they're married, like all those sorts of
22:52
statistics. So he's just like, go to the
22:54
gym, bro, fucking lift those weights, use alcohol to
22:59
lubricate yourself. Just a little bit at least.
23:01
And like talk to fucking girls, my guy.
23:03
It's never like develop yourself emotionally and learn how to
23:06
like create community with other men, like be happy on your own.
23:10
It's sort of like, and he'll even point out how like women
23:13
don't need, they say like the research says that women don't
23:16
need men in relationships as much as they can like find
23:18
community and they can be OK. And even if they're lonely,
23:22
they're not going to like shoot up a fucking school, whatever.
23:24
So but like a man will. So women have to save them kind
23:28
of vibe. Men need women more than women
23:31
need men in a relationship. Sort of one of his his talking
23:34
points. That is very much one of his
23:35
talking points. Anyways.
23:36
I say this in response to your question.
23:39
It is connected, I promise. Like how do you get men to go
23:42
into therapy? We have to get rid of the Scott
23:44
Galloway's, like, because like, it's that sort of message that
23:49
makes it so that like, men are like, oh, I just need to get a
23:52
job. Oh, I just need to get rich.
23:54
Oh, I just need to like be a bro about it.
23:56
Go to the gym. Go to the gym, right?
23:58
And when I go to the gym and I felt good when I go to the gym,
24:02
like there is a benefit, but I'm not like growing emotionally.
24:06
My endorphins are kicking in. I'm getting some dopamine hits,
24:09
but there's like a real lack of me evolving relationally.
24:13
Right? So there's like him and other
24:15
folks that are just like, still sending a message that therapy
24:18
actually isn't that valuable. He even goes down the rabbit
24:22
hole of like, therapy is only for rich people.
24:24
It's way too fucking expensive. True.
24:27
You agree, We agree. We agree, but you know, fucking
24:30
whatever, Medicare for All, let's change the system or
24:32
whatever. It's not about capitalism.
24:35
So I think more folks like you and I need to keep on like
24:39
preaching and showing like the benefits of emotional
24:42
development and how it like really enhances our world in and
24:46
out of relationships. But you know, like if you give a
24:49
guy a shortcut, whether it's like I'm going to get red pilled
24:52
or black pilled and just be angry and misogynistic, instead
24:56
of growing, doing the difficult work of growing, then he's going
24:59
to do that. Even the guys that are becoming
25:01
gooners. Do you know what a gooner is?
25:03
Dude, what's a gooner? What's black pill?
25:05
Where did the black pill come from?
25:07
Well, there's we all know what the red pill is, but the black
25:10
pill is kind of like the next level up where not only are you
25:14
like red pilled, where like women are the worst, but you're
25:16
black pilled in that like the world is going to end.
25:20
Like there's no fucking use growing or changing or anything.
25:22
Like let's actually like black pillars are also like want to
25:26
accelerate the end of the world? Let's vote for Trump.
25:28
That's hilarious. That sort of thing.
25:31
Like, let's just like, stay on. There and be horrible.
25:33
A bit of a nihilism, very nihilistic.
25:36
We're all fucked anyways, so let's just make it worse.
25:38
Kind of chaos agents. That but like L0L 0L0 L it's
25:42
hilarious like so like everything's a meme sort of
25:46
thing. And then the gooners are just
25:47
like the, you've probably heard about them.
25:50
They just masturbate all the time.
25:53
They masturbate for like 8 hours straight.
25:54
They have like 20 screens that they're looking at.
25:57
They're like they're porno sexuals.
25:59
Do you know what a? Porno sexual Heard about the
26:01
Gooners? Oh God, you gotta fucking check
26:03
them. Out.
26:04
I've been into Iraq for a couple four years, man, it's been
26:06
great. Yeah, they, I mean, they just a
26:08
porno sexual is somebody who's like who claims that their
26:12
sexual identity is just like they're in relationship with
26:14
porn. They do not want a person, they
26:17
do not want a girlfriend, they do not want a wife, they do not
26:19
want a partner. They're getting all their sexual
26:22
needs met from porn and they're just gooning all the time, which
26:26
is just masturbating. Man, my sexual experiences with
26:28
women have been far and away so much more interesting and fun
26:32
and exciting than jerking off the porn all day every day.
26:36
I really worry that like, well, I'm not a gooner or whatever.
26:40
Like I think I have like a pretty healthy relationship with
26:44
porn. God, if I was just born five
26:47
years, 10 years earlier, I'd be fucked.
26:49
I feel like I'd be fucked. I'd have like a real weird
26:52
relationship with porn. It would have like.
26:53
Even later born later. If I was born later, sorry,
26:57
yeah, yeah. If I was born later, yes.
26:59
God, like growing up as like a teenager now with the access
27:02
that they have. So why not just like masturbate
27:05
to porn instead of going to therapy which is already hard to
27:08
access? Even if you can't access, it's
27:11
hard to find a therapist. It's a good fit.
27:12
Oh my God, it's so fucking annoying.
27:14
I will say not to brag or anything, but I've only had two
27:18
therapists in my life. One that I had for four years,
27:20
one that I've currently have for seven years.
27:22
You're lucky. I think I must just be lucky I
27:25
was like, this is a good fit, let's just go.
27:28
I didn't really feel like shopping therapists.
27:30
But also, I don't know, maybe there are more bad therapists
27:33
now. Yeah, probably.
27:36
And even like I think that clients, I think it's good, but
27:40
I think that clients have like more specific requirements for a
27:44
therapist now. So I was like, I just need
27:47
therapy. And she was like, I'm a
27:48
therapist. OK, yeah, that works.
27:50
And now, seven years later, seven years in with the same
27:52
person almost every week, you know, like we have a
27:54
relationship, like she's effectively my mom now.
27:57
That's good shit. It is good shit and I'm and then
28:00
like I remember this week I was like, what are we even doing
28:02
here? You know, like what?
28:04
What have I accomplished in these seven years?
28:08
And she's like, well, I would love to tell you.
28:11
And then she like told me some things that I'm now able to do
28:14
that I wasn't able to do. You know, like I used to eat a
28:16
pint of Ben and Jerry's because I wasn't well, but I didn't know
28:18
why I wasn't well. Sure, sure.
28:20
Now I know why I'm not well. And so I can eat the pint, but
28:23
also work on the piece underneath it.
28:25
And she's like, that's huge. That's that is huge.
28:28
That's massive. You're able to, like, recognize
28:30
what else is going on in your internal world.
28:32
Yeah. And I would say, you know, like
28:34
there are lots of times where it is trending in the right
28:36
direction, direction where therapy, you know, just fucking
28:39
before the pandemic, there was more stigma for therapy than
28:43
there is now, right? I don't like the therapy apps,
28:47
the big therapy apps, I'm not going to name you name names,
28:51
but those big therapy apps did create a lot of podcast
28:55
commercials that are fucking annoying as fuck but did overall
28:59
lower the stigma of going to therapy because of capitalism
29:03
because they wanted to make money off of your depression.
29:05
But still like it has trended in the right direction.
29:09
Also, I will say we need more male therapists.
29:12
We do. There's that.
29:13
Just like we need more male school teachers because the the
29:17
impact of having a teacher or a therapist that you can identify
29:21
with is huge. And if you're in a heterosexual
29:25
couple and you're shopping for a couples counselor, really check
29:29
out those male therapists. Like I automatically have a
29:33
rapport with the guys that are coming in just 'cause we're a
29:35
man, just cause we're Bros. And I exploit that and in like
29:40
the most therapeutic way possible.
29:42
So think about seeing a man relationship therapist.
29:46
OK, yeah, they'll be on your side, brother.
29:48
Exactly. Don't worry, they're going.
29:50
To see they're going to see right through her.
29:51
Bullshit. Oh yeah.
29:54
You can gang up on her. Actually, my my first therapist
29:58
was a man and we were in couples counseling.
30:00
I was 22 years old. Oh wow, we.
30:03
Wanted to make it work and and I got sober.
30:08
She got sober. I got sober through a a a she
30:10
found Al Anon. Because we have, you know,
30:13
things, and we're both healthier because of it.
30:16
Oh, that's awesome. Bless Doctor Jay, talk off.
30:19
Thanks, Jay. Talk off.
30:20
All right, we're switching gears to dating real quick.
30:23
Small town dating. What can people in small towns
30:26
who struggle with dating do when they've exhausted the supply?
30:31
This is a question that I get every now and then and I'm like
30:34
kind of at a loss of how to answer it other than fucking
30:37
move, you know? But but also people, when they
30:41
live in a good community where they feel love and taken care of
30:44
and seen by everybody on a daily basis, like that is important.
30:49
That means a lot. And that's really good for
30:50
mental health. And picking up and moving to a
30:52
big city can be really, really isolating and triggering and
30:57
traumatic. Have you thought about becoming
30:59
a porno sexual and just gooning it all day long?
31:02
You can go survey. Well, these are women that are
31:04
asking these questions. Well, we need more women
31:07
gooners. I think that's that's gonna be
31:09
my new platform. More women that are just going
31:12
in. Yeah, I think you've you're,
31:14
you're starting to phone it in a little bit with your therapy
31:16
thing. So I think it's good to to
31:17
pivot. This feels like a real like you
31:23
got to have like some sort of practical answer to it.
31:25
And there's no like real good practical answer, right?
31:29
One is like you're saying move, but like if you don't want to
31:32
leave your community, that's completely understandable.
31:34
The other is make your filters on the dating apps even further
31:39
right. But I don't want to.
31:41
I don't want a long distance relationship.
31:42
Jeff Too bad, motherfucker. Like.
31:45
This is move. Yeah, the move.
31:47
So you like start to be open to having a longer distance
31:51
relationship or what like change your standards?
31:56
Lower your standards. Lower your standards.
31:59
Yeah, those are your options. And then just be single and date
32:02
yourself. Or don't.
32:04
Well and grieve. And grieve.
32:06
Grieve the relationship that you want to have that you're not
32:08
able to have. We can get like real if you're
32:12
into being like real woo and spiritual about it.
32:15
Oh, home wreck, Home wreck. Home wreck?
32:17
What's home wreck? That's where you go and you
32:19
steal someone else's partner. OK.
32:22
I thought that was like a spiritual practice That's just
32:24
home wrecking. You could do a home wreck.
32:29
Always an option. We're.
32:31
Starting to see how many options there are.
32:32
Actually, yeah, you could just like do like some of that, like
32:36
remember, like the secret law of attraction manifestation.
32:40
You call it in. Call it in, but like, go ahead
32:44
and be like, you know what? There's only three shitty
32:46
options. 4 if you count home wrecking.
32:48
I'm not going like I physically as a person cannot figure this
32:52
out. I'm going to hand it over to the
32:54
universe and the universe gets to decide how my person is going
32:59
to come into my life. I'm not going to fucking bother
33:01
about it or even like devote any brain power to it.
33:04
The universe is going to put that person in my reality into a
33:07
place where like I, it's, I'm like, oh, this is my new person.
33:10
They come into the grocery store or they move next to me or
33:13
whatever the fuck it is. So it's not even my
33:14
responsibility anymore. Five options.
33:18
That's pretty good. Problem solved, motherfucker.
33:21
I think so, yeah. Nice work.
33:23
That was very effective. I'm partial to #4.
33:26
That's the most exciting and you get to like play around with
33:30
your morals and. Your shadow side?
33:33
No, your shadow side. That's my shadow side.
33:36
I like that reframe, yeah. OK, we're sticking with the with
33:40
the topic of men and dating now. Dating requires men to face way
33:44
more rejection than women typically do, at least in terms
33:47
of initiating. OK, how does repeated rejection
33:51
shape men's approach to dating? Ow interesting and even I mean
33:58
this is maybe not just like AI mean.
34:01
We can go anywhere. We can go anywhere.
34:03
Yeah, there's a party that wants to be like, do men really get
34:05
more rejected? But fine, sure, let's say they
34:07
do. I think you can make a case for
34:09
it. Well, let's make a case.
34:10
Don't you think that men are required to initiate way more
34:13
than women are? Well.
34:15
You live in Portland. You live in Portland, so.
34:17
Sure, but I, I think you have to like take into consideration
34:20
that like just the act of putting yourself out there if
34:23
you're a woman or a man or whoever, like even like making a
34:27
dating profile, if you're a woman, that's putting yourself
34:30
out there and not getting as many likes as you want or
34:34
replies from men. Like that's also rejections too.
34:37
There's also like micro rejections that are happening on
34:40
the apps. You like somebody that you don't
34:42
hear from them, you send a message, you don't hear from
34:44
them, you plan a date, they don't follow through.
34:46
Like lots of little rejections. I think that like women,
34:49
everybody are feeling a lot of rejections, but there is the
34:52
like, you're right that there is sort of like the expectation of
34:54
like, well, men should make the first move.
34:56
But I think that women make the even more first move of like
35:03
being like, I'm available and you can see it physically
35:06
happening in a bar or something. Like a woman will like make eyes
35:10
at you signaling that like maybe you can go up and do a flirt or
35:14
something. And then if, if a woman makes
35:16
eyes at you and you don't go there, then they've just been
35:18
rejected, you know? Have you ever gone up to a woman
35:21
at a bar 'cause she made eyes at you?
35:23
I have, but this was a long time ago, have you not?
35:29
I don't go to bars. I'm going to.
35:31
I'm going to a bar for a first date.
35:33
I'll go. I don't drink but I'll go to a
35:35
bar for a first date 'cause. It's I didn't, I didn't do it at
35:37
bars. I did it at like shows, like a
35:39
concert or something. I don't go up to people in loud
35:42
environments because I'm like noise sensitive and it's just
35:45
kind of an awkward situation. That's true.
35:48
And I, I'm a little, I'm a little shy and nervous in that
35:50
way, even though I, I kind of present pretty confident and I
35:53
will talk to anybody at like a grocery store, a thrift store, a
35:56
gym, like yoga. But if it's a loud environment
36:00
like, it's just not the best place I think to flirt and
36:04
initiate contact. It is true it is more difficult.
36:06
Even though that's kind of people are kind of expecting to
36:10
be approached in places like that.
36:11
Right. If you're, if we're in a place
36:13
where it's OK and you're expecting to be approached and
36:16
I'm single and I'm looking, then like I'm going to pay attention
36:20
to the vibe to their eyes and see if I'm feeling invited and
36:24
I, and if I'm feeling some sort of pull or attraction, I'll go
36:28
over there and start a conversation and they're open to
36:30
the conversation. I'll keep talking.
36:32
If they're not, I will keep walking, right.
36:35
So there are like these little subtle things that a woman might
36:37
do where they could feel rejected if a man doesn't.
36:41
You know what I mean? Yeah.
36:42
So we're not we're not saying blanket statement men are
36:44
getting more rejected than women.
36:45
I will say, however, that after me too, I think men are a little
36:52
bit more. Shy.
36:54
Or reticent to approach any woman in public when I've polled
36:59
my audience, which is 85% women. What's yours, by the way?
37:02
85 Look at us. We should want to see the exact
37:06
numbers. When I said 84.70, I'll have to
37:10
check and see who wins. I have pulled the audience
37:13
saying, as a woman, do you want to be respectfully approached by
37:16
a man? Respectfully being the keyword,
37:18
Half say yes, half say no. So it's like you're kind of
37:23
damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
37:25
It's a real risk. I got a question from a man
37:28
being like, how do I approach a woman and compliment her on her
37:33
looks? And I said, OK, great question.
37:35
And I put that to my audience and three takeaways.
37:39
One was don't tell me that I'm hot.
37:43
If you're coming up to me and flirting with me, it's a given
37:46
that you are attracted to me, that you think I'm hot also and
37:49
you know, take away too. Like if you must compliment me
37:52
on what I look like, compliment me on like a choice that I've
37:56
made, my style, my style, a tattoo, these earrings.
38:00
Don't talk about my tattoos. And then there was that feedback
38:04
of like a tattoo, like, let's not do that anymore anyways.
38:07
But like if as long as it's a choice, it's not my body.
38:10
I can't change my body. I can't change certain things
38:12
about me and I'll like, so don't, but also like, don't take
38:17
away 3. It's just like, come up with
38:18
something else to fucking talk about.
38:20
It could be like, oh, you're getting that squash.
38:23
What are you making with it? Right?
38:24
Or it could just be like whatever's happening in the
38:27
environment, just start a conversation without it being an
38:30
obvious flirt. If she's like this, I think it's
38:36
OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:39
She's showing up for tattoos. It's OK then go for it.
38:42
Oh wait, but what was the question?
38:44
Oh, like men being rejected. More houses shaping, Sort of.
38:48
Yeah, they're approach. Sedating.
38:50
I think, yeah, they're a little more skittish and I think that's
38:53
fine. OK.
38:54
I just want to reply to everything that you've said.
38:57
Basically, don't tell them they're hot, which is kind of
39:02
basic. We could do better than this.
39:04
Yeah, we can do better. I think I would love it if a
39:08
woman came up to me and told me I was hot.
39:10
So what I'm doing there is I'm just like, well, then they must
39:12
love it too, right? Right.
39:14
Which is. Not the case, it's.
39:15
Not the case. OK you you already answered this
39:18
but there was a question from a woman saying I never get
39:19
approached in the wild and I'm out often.
39:21
How can I signal that I'm single?
39:23
And it OK to talk to me, flirt with those big big big beautiful
39:27
eyes. The big, the big beautiful eyes
39:29
flaunt your style smile. Tell a man they're hot.
39:33
Yeah, but they want to be approached.
39:36
They want to be approached. Yeah, you can.
39:39
I mean, this is, I'm not a woman, so whatever.
39:41
But like I feel like you really can make it obvious, like the
39:44
sustained eye contact, the flirty little side smile that
39:49
you can give them. You can like start up a little
39:52
conversation and see how they respond.
39:54
Hopefully put yourself in position and they they notice
39:58
you, but you got to it's hard because you got to make it feel
40:01
like real safe for them. Yeah, I know it is hard because
40:05
I I misread the signs recently, did ya?
40:09
Yeah. I had a woman look at me like 4
40:11
times while we were at a coffee shop and then she left and there
40:15
was even like a look and a smile.
40:17
It wasn't like she didn't linger, but like yo, you looked
40:20
at me four times in the span of 30 minutes.
40:23
Like we locked eyes. So when she got up to leave, I
40:26
got up and I was like, hey, I'm sorry, do we know each other?
40:28
And she's like, no, I go, OK, She's like, what's her name?
40:32
And I go, Sean. She's like, I'm whatever,
40:34
Janine. I go, right, well, have a good
40:37
day. And like, I just totally misread
40:40
the thing, you know, because because when I went to talk to
40:42
her, she wasn't really open to it.
40:45
But here's the take away. I'm not going to let that stop
40:47
me. Good.
40:49
I'm not going to let that stop me.
40:50
Yeah, and that's going to happen.
40:52
Like you have to allow that kind of shit to happen where you feel
40:55
awkward or embarrassed and there is a net positive eventually.
40:59
See, we're talking about the stuff that Scott Galloway tells
41:02
us to do, but down to the granular.
41:05
What does that actually look like?
41:07
Right, Like this is what it looks like.
41:10
It it looks like it can be very awkward and it's the the success
41:14
rate can be quite low. It can be.
41:16
And when you know if I'm getting a sign or if it looks like I'm
41:19
getting a sign from a woman and I approach them, I mean, well,
41:22
more than half the time I'm not approaching them because I'm too
41:24
nervous. Me too.
41:26
Psyching myself out or you know, or I whatever.
41:29
And then when I do, it's not as smooth as I ever want it to be.
41:34
And even if it is kind of smooth, I'm looking back on that
41:36
being like, come on, guy, you could have been smooth on my
41:38
what the fuck? You like, fumble that shit,
41:40
right? And there's a possibility that
41:42
if it goes wrong or I misread it, my day's kind of ruined now,
41:45
isn't it? So that fucking sucks.
41:48
And if I'm like having a shitty day, well, the next three days
41:50
are ruined, right? So there is a risk involved.
41:54
We got to do it. You're literally answering the
41:56
question of how is a man affected by by.
41:59
Rejection. There you go, I finally answered
42:02
it. Yeah, it can.
42:03
It can ruin your day, could ruin your day.
42:05
But at the end of the day, what's you know what's more
42:07
important? Finding love, Connecting with
42:10
another person. There you go.
42:11
Or feeling a little bad about yourself because you misread the
42:14
situation. Exactly.
42:16
I think it's a good skill to have, right?
42:18
I mean, it just requires a ton of courage.
42:22
Yeah, and it's a skill that carries over into other aspects
42:25
of your life. Just feeling more brave and
42:28
confident. And that's hot and sexy, you
42:31
know? Yeah, that's how you'll get
42:32
things in life that you want, Right?
42:35
All right, Well, cool. Should we end on a positive
42:39
note? Why not?
42:41
Do you not want to? We can end on a sad one or a -1
42:44
if you'd like. OK, one more is like, this is
42:47
such a weird question. This, this is from one of our
42:49
followers. Do men expect women to initiate
42:52
the first kiss? Do men expect women to initiate?
42:57
This is such a weird question because it to me the answer is
43:00
obviously no. Men are not expecting the woman
43:03
to initiate the first kiss. No.
43:07
When you do a first kiss, do you ask for consent or does it?
43:11
Always, unless, always unless it's one of those situations
43:15
where it's just so freaking inevitable and it just, it's
43:20
like it's just going to happen and you know, it's going to
43:22
happen. And that happened to me
43:24
recently. She was kind of the one who
43:25
leaned in like it was just, it was just going to happen, you
43:28
know. But for the most part, I'm
43:30
always, I mean, that this happened recently.
43:31
I said I had some friends over. And there was a new friend that
43:35
was there. And she was sort of lingering a
43:37
little bit at the end of the night.
43:39
And her Uber was on the way. And it still had two minutes
43:42
before it got here. And she was like, OK, well,
43:45
thanks for having me. And it was just like, there was
43:47
a real linger there. And I was like, does she want a
43:50
kiss? I was like, OK, this is
43:52
interesting. And then I let the moment pass
43:55
and she left. A few seconds later, I opened
43:58
the door again and I said her name and she came back and I go,
44:01
do you want to kiss? And she was like, yeah, I would
44:02
really like to kiss. So do you want to kiss?
44:05
Is sort of like, it's not can I kiss you?
44:08
I don't. I don't like, but do you want to
44:10
do? You want to.
44:11
It's a little cuter. It's not me taking something
44:15
from you like can I kiss you? It's do you want more
44:18
collaborative? Yeah, I like that.
44:22
I I don't know, most of the time do some sort of like consenti
44:25
thing like that. I think that there you know,
44:28
like there are clues, right, Like she's sort of initiating by
44:31
lingering, right. So there is a bit of like women
44:34
are could be doing more initiating while they're like
44:36
sending those non verbal signals.
44:38
But the man typically I guess is going to like maybe make the
44:42
move. I don't know, because that's
44:43
just how it is. She has to drop the
44:45
handkerchief. Exactly.
44:49
The Bridgerton handkerchief. But they're sort of like the
44:52
problem is solved because like you can just ask.
44:55
If you're not reading the situation, then you just fucking
44:58
ask and you're good and you get a response and that's that.
45:02
And then you just do whatever the response says.
45:04
I mean, have, you know, I polled my audience and half said yes,
45:07
always ask. The other half said, no, please
45:09
just take it, you know, and you're just like, the last thing
45:11
I want to do is get that wrong. Or like I lean in and then they
45:15
move their cheek and they turn their head.
45:17
Has that ever happened to you? Or they turn away, or they kiss,
45:21
but they don't really want to be kissing, I don't think.
45:23
So I just don't want it to happen.
45:26
I don't want it to happen and I'm like, not that risk taking
45:30
or I'm just like, I don't know what's happening here, but I'm
45:32
going to go for it anyways. That's never been in my DNA.
45:35
Yeah. So usually it's more like they
45:37
have a high success rate. Right, because you know they're
45:40
into it. Because I also love the tension
45:43
of it all. So oh, I can see that we both
45:46
want to do it. Let's fuck around here for a
45:48
while. Let's wait a little bit.
45:49
Let's wait. Let's do like the touch on the
45:51
elbow. I really want a lot of
45:54
reassurance because like, now this is so hot to the point
45:58
where like when we finally do kiss, it's a little sparky
46:02
explosive, sort of. I can appreciate that approach.
46:06
I'm much more likely to just ask and get it out of the way.
46:10
Understandable. OK, well, this was fun.
46:14
I have a question. Where can we find you?
46:17
I mean, obviously we know where to find you, but for for those
46:20
who don't know you. If you like me here on this
46:22
podcast, you'll probably like me on my podcast called Problem
46:25
Solved. I mentioned it earlier, folks
46:28
call in with questions, then me and my therapist buddy Alex and
46:34
I answer it. You can leave a question for the
46:36
Problem Solved podcast at Therapy jeff.com/podcast.
46:40
I was also a guest on that podcast.
46:42
It's true, yeah. You can also go back and you
46:45
were the last guest before I changed it to just me and my
46:49
buddy. That's not because it wasn't a
46:52
good. Podcast No, it's because it was
46:54
so good that Jeff wasn't able to ever recreate it.
46:57
And you always have to end on high note.
46:59
Exactly. We'll link to that episode in
47:01
the show notes. You're also therapy, Jeff on all
47:03
yes, social media Instagram therapist to the stars.
47:07
That's right. I guess I used to always finish
47:09
with this question of what does love mean to you?
47:11
So I'm kind of curious if you have a an answer.
47:14
You know, it changes, I guess, whenever you decide to ask me
47:17
that right now. Currently what love means to me
47:20
is just like emotional safety to the point where like I can bring
47:26
up hard stuff. I can have like big complicated
47:30
emotional experiences and you can be there holding that space
47:35
for me and vice versa. Like love means just like being
47:39
able to be my messy, emotionally authentic self and you being
47:43
excited to receive it or experience.
47:45
So I love that. Thank you so much for your
47:49
wisdom and also for being one of the first guests on the podcast
47:52
relaunch. Happy to be here and I'll come
47:54
back whenever you want me to. Appreciate it so much.
47:57
Bye. Tao And that's a wrap on episode
48:00
6 with Therapy Jeff. Check out his podcast Problem
48:03
Solved at Therapy jeff.com/podcast and find him
48:06
everywhere as at Therapy Jeff. And also thank you for
48:11
listening. You have a million different
48:13
podcasts that you could be listening to and you chose to
48:16
listen to this one. O, that means a lot to me.
48:18
Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for sending
48:19
this hour with me and Jeff, if you're watching on YouTube or
48:23
listening on Spotify, leave a comment and tell me what you
48:26
thought of the episode. I read every single one and it
48:27
really brings me a lot of joy. It's fun to receive your
48:30
comments, your feedback. It helps a lot.
48:33
Also, if you're on Apple Podcast, leave a review.
48:36
We have 399 reviews. I need to get to 1000.
48:40
Believe it or not, the podcast currently is sitting at 4.9
48:43
stars. That's good.
48:45
There's a couple one star reviews that are pretty
48:46
hilarious to read. Somebody got mad at me for
48:49
liking a post. I don't remember which post, but
48:51
that was enough to leave me a one star review.
48:53
So if you want to drown that review out with one of yours,
48:56
that would mean the world to me. It takes about a minute.
48:58
Go to your Apple podcast app and just like find how to leave a
49:01
review. You're smart, you can do this.
49:03
And whoever you are, wherever you're listening, share this
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with someone who needs to hear it.
49:07
Oh, OK. If you want to Share your story
49:09
or ask a question or give some feedback, call or text me at
49:13
415-494-9559. You could leave a voicemail to
49:17
my Google Voice number or e-mail me at podcast@thelovedrive.com.
49:23
I have a retreat coming up. It's called Love Camp, June 5th,
49:26
6th and 7th in Western Massachusetts.
49:29
You are welcome. The link is in the bio.
49:31
It's probably about halfway sold at this point.
49:34
It's a fantastic weekend. It's a beautiful, beautiful
49:37
weekend in West Massachusetts, exploring the role of play in
49:43
your life, how to bring more presence to all of your
49:46
relationships, the importance of holding space.
49:49
We talk about emotional availability.
49:51
We go frolic in the lake. We have a cacao ceremony.
49:54
It's a really beautiful time. So if you're interested in that
49:58
Love Camp Lincoln bio, thank you everyone, have a beautiful week.