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Discovering Bitcoin with Earthmum · Discovering Bitcoin

0:00
You know, Bitcoin isn't so much about opting out as it is about
0:03
opting in to responsibility, to understanding, to long term
0:09
thinking. Hard block, Australia's longest
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running Bitcoin exchange, exists for people making that choice
0:15
intentionally. Simple DCA, honest fees, no
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hype. Yeah, I see the world through an
0:22
entirely different lens. It doesn't just give you
0:27
confidence, but it gives you hope.
0:31
Think like we're squandering our energy, our life force.
0:34
So Bitcoin is changing that for me.
0:37
It's like it's healing energy. It gives you a kind of of a
0:43
stand feeling right? Deep and deep and deep.
0:50
And the immortal words of the doors, The time to hesitate us
0:54
through. Earth Mum, how's it going?
1:23
DJ pretty good. It's been a, I wouldn't say a
1:29
long time coming, but I, I'm, I'm really trying to get to
1:35
grips with the passage of time. And I had a guest on early last
1:44
year, Yugo Khanna, and he kind of said something about time
1:51
being a flat circle and that everything is happening all at
1:56
once. And so you need not sort of
2:00
worry about the the passage of time.
2:02
Because what I'm getting at is I met you at a Bush bash recently
2:11
and. Very recently.
2:13
That's that's what I mean, like it, but very recently and yet
2:17
seems so long ago. And I don't know if it's because
2:20
of, you know, the world we live in, like the, the, the, the
2:25
macro and the political bullshit and all that sort of stuff
2:29
because things just happen constantly.
2:32
Or is it Bitcoin or is it just my own?
2:36
I can remember when I was a kid, I used to have these kind of
2:39
like thoughts where I'd be like, it was 2 weeks ago that I was
2:45
doing such and such, or it was, you know, a month ago that I was
2:48
doing such and such. And I would almost begin to
2:51
lament the past a little bit. And as I've gotten older, I've
2:55
tried not to let that overwhelm me.
2:59
And I, I guess for me, Christmas is incredibly special time.
3:03
And it's kind of like those, those 30 days thereabouts, you
3:09
know that that month, 31 days where well, and if you count the
3:14
holy nights, it's you get all wet at six, but you get a month
3:20
to kind of begin to slow down. And then you get maybe a week,
3:27
two weeks to kind of really slow it down just a little bit.
3:30
And then you even get like one day, maybe 2 if you can't New
3:34
Year's Day. But one day, particularly with
3:36
Christmas, where you can just be and just, you know, like enjoy
3:43
the sanctity of, of that day. And I remember when we were
3:46
talking back in November, you know, and I, I said to you at
3:50
the Bush Bash, it would be really cool if we could get you
3:53
on the pod, you know, because I'd love to talk about your
3:55
story and your presentation that you did.
3:59
And as I was thinking about our conversation today, I was sort
4:04
of lamenting the past again. I was like, oh wow, It was like
4:08
almost two months ago that you know, like this passage of time
4:11
because it's kind of like Christmas is over.
4:14
That little sanctified break is over.
4:17
And that makes me a little, I don't know, I get a little sad,
4:20
I guess. Anyway, this is a long winded
4:22
way of saying the passage of time can go fuck itself.
4:26
Time is a flat circle. Christmas is awesome and I am
4:30
stoked to have you on the podcast because you have a tale
4:34
to tell. And without revealing too much
4:38
too soon, you make the greatest soap I've ever used ever.
4:44
Like, without a doubt. I know soap miner gets all the
4:46
plaudits on Noster and on the podcast and stuff, but you're
4:50
like the Aussie version of Soap miner.
4:52
I, I, I honestly am blown away at the quality of that soap.
4:56
But let's not turn this into a light shield straight off the
4:59
bat. Earth Mum.
5:00
It's yeah, this is the whole intro is completely off, off the
5:04
rails already. Sorry everyone.
5:07
Anyway, thanks for coming on. No pleasure.
5:12
No, I'm a few, yeah. Very honoured to be here.
5:15
What do you think about this whole like where do you speak
5:17
with the passage of time thing? Is this something that you've
5:20
that you think about or you just say whatever?
5:22
I don't know what you're going on about mate.
5:27
No, I think about that sort of stuff.
5:28
And, yeah, I also remember like trying, trying to keep track of
5:34
things in, in terms of, you know, months and years and, you
5:38
know, and 1980, blah, blah, blah, you know, and in 1990, so
5:42
that's like five years ago. And yeah, I stopped doing that,
5:46
you know, 'cause my brain just, you know, gets overload.
5:49
Keeping with all, keeping up with all the, all the numbers.
5:52
So now, yeah, memories, I guess I call it, you know, when I
5:57
think of time, you know, like memories.
5:58
And I mean, I like the good old days.
6:01
You know, I'm very sort of nostalgic in that way.
6:03
Memories are more feeling, you know, feeling or smells or
6:07
tastes or or sounds you know, not so much numbers in years and
6:12
how long ago. Yeah, I, I'm trying my best and
6:17
I, I'm, I think I'm succeeding. It'll be too hard in ensuring
6:23
that I'm recognizing that the good old days are now, you know,
6:27
even right now. And, and, and what I have been
6:30
working on is trying to increase the thickness of the present
6:38
moment so that like, you know, people like, well, I mean, I've
6:45
referenced around us on this pod before the whole notion of being
6:49
here now, being present in the moment, moment to moment to
6:52
moment to moment, and then trying to increase that
6:55
thickness. And from that, therefore, the
6:58
good old days are perpetual. They're constantly here because
7:03
eventually this conversation will be projected forward into
7:06
the future. We might look back, you know, so
7:10
long as they haven't completely and utterly destroyed the
7:15
usefulness of the Internet as they are trying to do.
7:18
Well, maybe this will just exist solely on relays on Nosta, you
7:24
know, where, where we can kind of reflect back and like, these
7:27
are the good old days. So yeah, anyway, I'm not sure
7:31
where we're going with this pod yet.
7:33
Thank goodness I have a structure.
7:36
Well, yeah, you try to, yeah. You're trying to talk about the
7:40
moment of now, you know, And if you're in that moment, really,
7:43
time becomes irrelevant or time becomes just so weak, you know,
7:48
it's. Yeah, that, that doesn't matter.
7:52
This is it. And this is where I like the the
7:54
notion of time, of being a flat circle.
7:58
As in everything is happening all at once now.
8:01
It's happening now and that's the most important thing.
8:05
So Speaking of now, why don't we, why don't we?
8:11
I've got an I've got a normally ask a question to kick the pod
8:14
off, but I've got a different one because I'm actually quite
8:15
curious. How did you discover Nosta?
8:18
And I'll qualify that because I don't know.
8:26
I mean, there's a there's a few Aussies on on on the pod.
8:30
And I certainly don't want to, I say this with the most in all
8:36
due respect, and I want to date you, but I don't like if I tried
8:41
to get my mum onto Nosta, it's not going to happen.
8:44
Like it's just not going to happen, let alone understand
8:46
Bitcoin like you. You're like so far beyond most
8:50
people. How the heck did you discover
8:54
Nosta? Oh.
8:59
My God, So I, I always enjoyed a bit of social media, you know,
9:05
come from the Facebook era and I actually used to enjoy it until
9:10
I realised, you know, like I was evaded and and Nosta.
9:17
I found out at my local meet up people were talking about it and
9:21
I was curious. Yeah.
9:24
OK. Well then that makes sense.
9:26
That's kind of logical. Let me get to the next question
9:28
then. How did you discover Bitcoin?
9:34
Not at my local meet up. Meet up.
9:37
Yeah, that was during the lockdowns, during the COVID
9:44
eras, you know, when they, Yeah, when they locked everyone down
9:49
and you couldn't go to work and, you know, you couldn't do
9:52
anything. You.
9:53
Couldn't go to the park, you couldn't go to the beach, you
9:56
couldn't walk on the sand at the beach well.
10:01
I think. In Sydney, maybe.
10:03
Well, I think you, you, you could and you know, but people
10:07
are raving about the like in my area, how we can still go to the
10:10
beach. So everything is OK, but nothing
10:13
was OK, you know, in my world. So anyway, with all that time
10:16
that all of a sudden hit on my hand, I, you know, sort of went
10:21
down the rabbit hole of immediately, you know, of, of
10:24
money. You know, I found the, the Mike
10:27
Maloney Hidden secrets of, of money series on, on YouTube.
10:33
And I never really consumed much YouTube before then, you know,
10:36
just for music. Didn't realise it was a social
10:39
media form of social media. So yeah, that was very
10:44
interesting. And he mainly, yeah, he mainly
10:48
talked about, you know, gold and silver, but I learned the
10:51
difference between currency and money.
10:53
And, and he also had an episode, you know, on, on Bitcoin.
10:58
And I was curious, yeah, I was curious and together with a
11:03
friend that sort of explored, you know, what, what was going
11:06
on and you know, how how that worked and how can you even get
11:11
Bitcoin? And yeah, but I didn't sort of
11:16
like the online, you know, online, online I don't like,
11:19
didn't like, I guess, I don't know, exploring or, you know,
11:22
socializing online. So my friend and I, we wanted to
11:25
find local meet ups and we did. And yeah, straight away we got
11:30
into the meet ups. Nice.
11:32
So so the catalyst was the insanity of COVID and you were
11:45
that did that alone spark you to ask this question of what is
11:50
money? Because it sounds like you went
11:51
sort of like the the metal like the the sound money route, like
11:55
gold and silver first before touching on Bitcoin.
11:59
Is that true? Well, I always had a a strange
12:05
relationship with money growing up, you know, under communism,
12:10
you know, like we didn't grow up, you know, sort of in a
12:15
material way that was not very important, you know, to chase
12:21
the money or, you know, to chase material goods.
12:24
You know, it was much more important to create a socialist
12:31
was way more important. So, you know.
12:34
Yeah. And I didn't deem it important
12:38
at all, you know, and, but, and I always thought I would, you
12:43
know, my destiny was, you know, to work until I die because, you
12:47
know, I never had any money. And I never, or when I tried to
12:51
save, you know, it would never, you know, take me far.
12:55
And yeah. And then I also fell into the,
12:58
the style of, you know, money is the, the create the root of all
13:02
evil in the new age world. You know, it's not important.
13:06
And yeah. So that was, yeah.
13:10
My, my beliefs around money. Yeah.
13:12
For for a long time. Well, at the Bush bash you've
13:16
made a presentation about living under communism and you
13:20
articulated the the sort of what it felt like and what, what the
13:24
day-to-day was. And actually in some of those
13:27
sort of points you were making, you were talking about how you
13:31
know, somewhat nostalgic I guess for it, even though you
13:37
recognise just how awful it was. Obviously not everyone was at
13:43
that Bush Bash. So this is kind of like that.
13:47
There's like a, there's like a, an undergirding here that is
13:52
almost preparing you to sort of grok Bitcoin way sooner than
13:56
most people simply because you saw the, the I guess the end
14:03
game of like overreach, government overreach, I suppose.
14:08
So can we maybe first and foremost unpack what life under
14:16
communism was like, where that was, and you know what, what,
14:21
what that was all like? Yeah, the nostalgic part, that's
14:31
quite funny. Yeah, the nostalgic part because
14:34
it was social. I mean, you know, I was when I
14:37
was young, you know, I enjoyed the the sense of belonging and
14:44
yeah, that it that was created there, you know, but of course
14:50
it comes, it comes at a price. But you know, when when I came
14:55
became a bit more mature, you know, I've realized, yeah, what
14:59
what the price is, you know, that you don't have access to,
15:04
you know, certain information even and and yeah, you can't
15:09
express. You can't express yourself.
15:12
And you, you know, you surveyed and controlled and yeah, you're
15:18
also the future outlook was like extremely limited.
15:21
You know, you, you work at the factory and if you're lucky, you
15:26
got a flat, but you had to, you know, get married and have
15:28
children to do that. And yeah, it was just an
15:32
extremely limited outlook. So this is in East Germany?
15:40
In, yeah, East Germany and yeah, I know a lot of a lot of
15:43
countries, you know, got touched by, by communism.
15:46
There's like a huge list of countries you know from from A
15:51
to A-Z almost. Yeah, and most of those like.
15:56
Eastern Europeans. Yeah, yeah.
15:59
Like particularly the Eastern Europeans, they flirted with
16:01
that, yeah, and eventually realised just how satisfactory,
16:09
if I could put it like that. Well, I don't think, I don't
16:11
think they flirted. I think it got, you know, put on
16:15
top of them by, you know, by the.
16:17
Yeah. And they've and they've seen
16:20
this, you know, flat out refuse. It's almost like Western
16:24
Europeans time to to I mean, they're they're literally
16:28
flirting with it right now. But this so So you were you born
16:35
in East Germany under communism? Yeah, yeah, I was born there and
16:41
yeah, I spent my first 18 years of my life in East Germany.
16:45
So a good, a good chunk, formative chunk chunk.
16:50
Yeah, that's a formative chunk of of time.
16:52
And so I guess what's interesting for me is how how
17:01
you kind of got over that, that form formative, those formative
17:07
years, like were you smelling a rat?
17:10
Were I guess, what was it like? What was it like, you know, you
17:13
spent first 18 years, what are you learning?
17:16
What's day-to-day like? I mean, is, is it all it's
17:20
cracked up to be? I mean there's a lot of people
17:22
that think that communism is awesome and that we should give
17:25
it a whirl much more than what we already are currently.
17:31
Is this like what? What did you learn in the 1st 18
17:35
years living under literal communism?
17:39
Well, actually a big thing you learn under communism is you
17:44
can't trust anyone because anyone could be a spy.
17:50
Like, literally, you know, like a huge number of people were
17:54
employed by the Secret Service. Yeah.
17:57
So don't trust anyone and just learn to accept scarcity, you
18:05
know, And yeah, don't have aspirations.
18:10
Bitcoin doesn't announce itself. It reveals itself not in the
18:14
moment you buy, but in the moment you stop thinking of it
18:16
as a trade, start sensing it as a discovery.
18:21
This episode is supported by Hard Block, an Australian
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Hard Block dot. Com dot AU so not trusting
19:05
anyone as a kid. Do you mean like even parents,
19:10
uncles, aunties? No, I guess your parents, yeah.
19:17
But yeah, outside of that, yeah, yeah.
19:21
That was, that was pretty or even the other way around.
19:24
You know, it's, it's just, yeah, it's it's so crazy.
19:28
It's so crazy. And the lies, you know, like
19:31
everything's propaganda, you know, I feel like, and I, I
19:34
smell the red, you know, from from when I was really young,
19:38
you know, that that's all propaganda.
19:40
And I kind of like, shut off to it, you know, I, you know, I
19:44
yeah, I, yeah. I isolated.
19:47
I isolated myself I guess. Were you asking?
19:51
You know I didn't want. Questions.
19:53
As a as a kid. No.
19:56
No, So no. But I knew it was, it was
19:59
instinctively I knew. And the biggest lie that I
20:02
remember that I thought was laughable that they said, you
20:06
know, the the Wall, you know, the Berlin Wall that went
20:10
through all of Germany, it was there to protect us.
20:13
You know, it was there to protect us so that the
20:15
imperialist doesn't, you know, conquer our beautiful socialist
20:19
country. And I knew it was a lie and it
20:22
was laughable. But I recently actually asked my
20:25
mother about it, if she believed it, and she did believe it.
20:29
So it wasn't like my parents handed me down the, you know,
20:33
like anything that was just, like, purely me.
20:35
And I never talked about it. And yeah, actually, yeah, after
20:41
the after the presentation at the Bush brush, someone came to
20:43
me and said, like, oh, you know, that really resonated with her.
20:46
And she's like, oh, that's that's how I felt, you know,
20:48
during COVID, like she's somewhere new and she didn't
20:53
know why. And, you know, and like that
20:55
others believed it. You're like, yeah, that's a
20:57
whole weird. Well, just to carry that around
21:01
as a child must have been a huge burden, like psychologically,
21:08
possibly manifesting physiologically and not being
21:13
able to discuss that without fear of, you know, reparations
21:20
or whatever the the word is. Like, I guess you know you, I
21:26
mean, you mentioned you, you were there up until 18.
21:29
So I suppose what, when you're 18, you're like, OK, well, the
21:35
other thing is actually I'm going all over the shop here for
21:37
a minute. But you mentioned like, oh, the
21:40
wall is there to protect us from our beautiful socialist country.
21:44
Did they use the word beautiful to describe the socialist
21:48
country? Possibly.
21:56
Yeah. I I guess like 'cause.
21:58
Like what I'm trying to get at is.
22:00
What? The more you know.
22:01
Wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:02
Yeah, like marvellous, all of these wonderful, you know, these
22:05
excellent adjectives. Yep.
22:07
And then you look around and you see the degradation and decay of
22:11
the buildings and the the lack of, you know, colour, I suppose.
22:18
But you don't have much to compare it with either.
22:20
Yeah. OK, interesting.
22:22
So not even like magazines, TV, like media, there's no, there's
22:28
not like. You yeah, it was pretty, it was
22:31
pretty, pretty isolated, but some, if you live close to the
22:34
border, you could receive, you know, like W German television,
22:38
but you weren't allowed to watch it.
22:41
Yeah, right. Like tasting right?
22:45
Yeah. Would people know?
22:46
Oh, like, I guess maybe you've got spies in the house, like if
22:48
you put put it on, right. Well, that, yeah, they did this
22:52
trick at school. They would ask the kids, the
22:54
young, innocent kids, you know? So when you watch the news at
22:57
night, is the clock on behind the reader?
23:00
Yeah. Is it square or is it round?
23:02
And that was the sign. I know.
23:05
That's fucking evil. And then they would do a tick on
23:09
the listing. I'm like this family, this
23:11
family watches this, Yeah. I know that is that's one of the
23:17
worst things I've ever heard. The fact that because children
23:19
are involved, of course. Wow, that's that's.
23:23
Yeah, I'm getting sugars right now.
23:26
That's so evil. I went to Germany on a on a, on
23:32
a, they call them a famille and you get paid to go over there
23:37
for work anyway. And I went to, we did a sort of
23:42
like this, this, I think it was a day trip, might have been over
23:45
2 days between West Germany and East Germany.
23:50
And I must admit, I was pretty jolly ignorant.
23:53
I was there to do wine things. But I do remember passing into
24:00
East Germany and then remembering like, you know,
24:03
history lessons from high school.
24:05
And they're like, oh shit. Like, and you can see like old
24:09
abandoned gun towers or, you know, just the, the, the, the,
24:15
the buildings changed. They got a lot more brutalist.
24:19
And one of the wineries we went to in I think it's called Sal
24:24
Unstrut and might be the, the region.
24:28
And I remember going to this, this winery that was like built
24:34
during under communism. And it was like, it was, it was
24:42
dank, you know, it had a lot of old tech, had all these
24:47
beautiful old carved wine barrels.
24:49
It was, it was quite that that was quite beautiful.
24:52
But a lot of concrete they used to pump the wine rather than
24:58
through steel tubes that passed pump it through glass tubes.
25:05
Yeah. It, it just it as soon as you
25:07
saw the contrast. And I can't remember if it was
25:10
over a period of a day or two days, but just comparing
25:13
contrasting effectively where we'd come from to where we, you
25:18
know, we're now in, in this East German winery was like such a
25:22
stark example of of I guess the lack of beauty in, in the
25:32
region, in the space. I don't know.
25:34
That was kind of one of the things, yeah.
25:40
Yeah, yeah, Well, we, I remember we had, we had like like bullet
25:53
shops in the, you know, in the, in the city where I used to live
25:56
in, like in the inner city, there were old buildings.
26:00
So, you know, like from before the war.
26:03
And they, they still had like bullet shops in the, in the
26:07
facade and, and I remember them saying, oh, you know, people
26:12
say, oh, that's from the 56th or something uprising.
26:17
And that was crazy times. And yeah, we couldn't talk about
26:23
that, of course. But there was a big uprising in,
26:25
in all the, in, I think in Hungary as well, Hungary and and
26:28
East Germany. I think it was 56 people didn't
26:33
want to live under Communist Russia because that's, you know,
26:36
what the whole Second World War was about to stop, you know, to
26:41
stop that conquest. Yeah.
26:45
Opposed to, you know, the official history stories you
26:48
hear. And.
26:49
Yeah. And we could still see those,
26:51
you know, those shots in the the bullet, whatever they call it.
26:55
Yeah. The imprints of the bullets in
26:58
the in the facades of the buildings.
27:01
And was that a? Was that?
27:02
An. Yeah, sorry.
27:04
Continue. Sorry.
27:05
And that wasn't like, you know, like a museum or memory.
27:08
It was just like, sorry, but we have no, no funds or no whatever
27:15
to fix this, you know, because, yeah, all the money that was
27:19
siphoned off, you know, to the to the party anyway, to the
27:22
party elite, you know, they siphoned off a lot of the wealth
27:26
that was, that was produced in East Germany.
27:31
And all the infrastructure was just, you know, was just there
27:34
to, to let rot. And if you wanted to live
27:37
somewhere, if you wanted to have an apartment, you could squat
27:40
somewhere and then you would renovate it yourself, you know,
27:43
and and eventually, you know, start to pay a little bit of
27:46
rent. Yeah.
27:48
Everything was led to rot, basically.
27:51
So there was a lack of beauty in the in the space because entropy
27:56
was taking over and, you know, things fall apart.
27:59
That's. Yeah, yeah.
28:02
And if no one, you know, if. Yeah, if you don't, if no one
28:05
has any ownership over anything, like, you know, no one has
28:09
responsibility to do much. Yeah.
28:12
So that even pervades as well that like that the notion of our
28:17
world's not mine. So why?
28:19
What's the incentive to beautify?
28:20
What's the incentive to make it look nice or someone else would
28:24
do it because it's not mine, so why do I care?
28:28
And then everyone lives in in. I mean, I don't know if
28:33
Squalor's the right term maybe, I'm not sure.
28:37
Well, that's one thing I sort of had to think about discovering
28:41
Bitcoin, you know, like the, the self ownership or the, you know,
28:46
the ownership or the responsibility of, of property
28:49
of ownership. Yeah, that was a big, big
28:54
concept for me to grasp. I mean the beautiful concept,
28:57
you know, really empowering, but like brand new.
29:02
It's yours, no one else's. Like it's not even it's it's
29:07
completely different to having money in the bank because it's
29:11
not even, you know, I mean, that's not even yours either.
29:17
Yeah, it's a complete. It's a complete.
29:22
It's a complete novelty for most people.
29:25
And once they do, Grocca, like, you know, this is yours.
29:28
You've got your C words attached to these, you know, to these
29:33
coins and you just think I like it.
29:36
I'm literally the only one that has access to this.
29:38
This is extraordinary. No, no third party, no
29:43
counterparty. I'm curious before we get too
29:46
far into the into the big con thing, did you did you ever
29:50
drive or did your father or ever drive a tribant?
29:54
A tribant? I don't know how to.
29:56
Pronounce it. Yeah, Trabi.
30:02
Yeah, well. In slang, it was Trabi.
30:05
What's it called? In case you're interested,
30:08
Trabi. Trabi.
30:11
Yeah, because yeah, we pronounce it RA bit differently.
30:14
OK. Were they any good?
30:18
Oh, that was so bad. They're like, you could, I
30:21
could, you know, I could almost lift it myself, you know, on one
30:24
end. It was made out of carp, was
30:26
made out of cardboard. Oh.
30:28
Really. It was, it was made out of of
30:31
course a bit of metal you had to have in the wheels or whatever.
30:34
It was made out of cardboard so easy to punch and and the engine
30:39
was like a 2 stroke lawn mower engine.
30:44
I'm just I'm looking at the engine model here.
30:46
They got the 499CC two stroke, 57 to 62, the 594.
30:53
So that noise, that noise still rings in my ears, you know?
30:59
And yeah, it had, Yeah. What about 7?
31:02
The smell. It's the same too.
31:04
Kids on motorbikes go Fang and past down the street do you?
31:08
Is that? No, no, that's that has more
31:12
grunt than than the the motorbikes have more grand soil
31:16
really. Like a lawn mower.
31:18
Someone mowing their lawn on a Sunday, which you should never
31:21
do, by the way. Never mow your lawn on a.
31:23
Sunday. No.
31:25
It's illegal in Germany to do it on a Sunday.
31:27
Is it? Is it or I think?
31:29
I think it is, yeah. I'm not.
31:31
I'm not big on on telling people what to do, but I will expressly
31:36
and explicitly suggest quite firmly that you do not mow your
31:41
lawn on a Sunday ever. That's a bugbear in mind.
31:46
So the Trabant 2 stroke run and reach all around East Germany,
31:51
making a God awful sound. Basically AAI mean was it even
31:57
like, you know, aerated cardboard?
31:59
You know where it's got like the little, the sort of those little
32:01
pockets of air that between two slices.
32:05
It must have just been just how many people fit in this thing.
32:10
It's like I'm looking at photos, 2 door, tiny little thing.
32:14
Apparently they're quite a novelty now, yeah?
32:18
Yeah, yeah. Because, yeah, people got rid of
32:21
them or then then, yeah, yeah, they're quite, quite a novelty.
32:25
And but the the crazy part is you had to wait for 14 years or
32:30
something to get one of those. Well, that's what I was, yeah,
32:34
like thinking because I've, I've watched like documentaries, you
32:37
know, and I, I remember reading or hearing at one point, yeah,
32:42
that you had to wait like, like 10 years as well.
32:45
Manufactured by is on Wikipedia. Manufactured by state monopoly,
32:50
A Travie Trabon took about 10 years to acquire each.
32:54
German buyers were placed on a waiting list of up to 14 years.
32:58
The waiting time depended on their proximity to Berlin.
33:02
Official state price was 7450 GDA on Marks and the demand to
33:08
production ratio was 43 to 1. Holy smokes, so you did.
33:18
You did get. To run around as a as a Yeah, I
33:21
did. I did, yeah.
33:22
It wasn't the first car that I drove.
33:24
I was 14 or something. And I, you know, just that
33:26
little girl. Yeah.
33:29
Yeah. But in, in nostalgic sense, I
33:32
don't know. It's also, I don't always have
33:35
so much more simple back then, sorry.
33:37
I mean probably you know, for everyone, you know that isn't
33:39
even if you grew up in Australia during that time, I guess times
33:43
when was simple, you know, you didn't have 20 varieties, you
33:47
know, of yogurt or you know, chocolate.
33:50
So it's just a few and it's fine.
33:54
Yeah, simpler times, no doubt. I mean, you only have to watch
34:00
some of the some of the best movies were made in simpler
34:02
times. Yeah, yeah.
34:06
No, I mean, I think everyone gets that kind of thing.
34:08
And and even in a in a horrific situation like you grew up in,
34:15
with with regards to we can basically, we can, we can
34:20
basically safely say that communism is a terrible idea and
34:23
that it should not be. It should not be explored in any
34:28
under any circumstances ever. If you if you want to have nice
34:33
things, would that be fair to say?
34:37
Well, not only have nice things, but if you want, you know, and
34:42
not even freedom, you know, like freedom, not everyone wants
34:45
freedom. I also, you know, realise that
34:48
it's not everyone's top priority.
34:50
But if you want to have A and also stifles creativity, you
34:55
know, to be controlled all the time, you know, Star Wars
34:58
creativity, intimacy, Yeah. Yeah, intimacy.
35:05
And. And creativity, I mean, they're,
35:08
they're very, very intertwined. I mean, creativity, I find if
35:13
your objective every single day is to work for the party or, you
35:18
know, work for the greater good, whatever, you have very little
35:22
time to explore yourself as an individual.
35:26
And so, you know, you probably don't even get to really grok
35:31
who you are. I mean, most people can't really
35:34
do that anyway nowadays. But I guess like you even have
35:38
less of an incentive to discover yourself.
35:43
Well, you, you can't, you can't find out yourself because it's a
35:47
predestined. It's a predestined.
35:50
You have to. You have a predestined identity,
35:53
like there's no room to move. Right, you can't.
35:58
You have a role. Yeah, yeah.
36:02
Even if you don't want that role, there's like very there's
36:07
like is, is there any optionality or there's?
36:09
Just if you don't want that optionality, yeah, well, OK, If
36:13
you don't want that role, well then you just, you know, stay,
36:17
you know, really low in the ranks of, you know, yeah, you do
36:21
really low, you know, blow job your whole life, you know.
36:25
OK, you stay alone man, the entire time, tie kicking.
36:28
Or yeah, yeah, but even, but even then you know, but even
36:31
then you know, but yeah, it's first very, yeah, very small
36:35
parameters, you know, to to create your life like.
36:42
Were there people once the wall came down?
36:45
Do you got out before the wall came down right?
36:49
Yeah, yeah, two years ago. Yeah, saying that and so, well,
36:54
I mean, that's an, that's got to be an interesting story in and
36:57
of itself, right? If you're able to talk about it,
37:00
like getting out, how do you get out of a place like that?
37:07
Well, I think two ways, you know, you, you either risk your
37:11
life and try to cross the border, the physical border, or
37:16
you somehow managed to, I don't know, legally go for a visit.
37:22
Or I went for a visit and other people maybe had some
37:26
professional or artist arrangement or let's say a human
37:32
athlete at new in the Olympics. You know, there are chances you
37:35
could, you know, could escape. Yeah.
37:41
So if you wanted it, you could. Yeah, in in a way.
37:47
And you could also you could apply for a permit to leave the
37:50
country permanently. Did that often work?
37:56
It worked, Yeah. It worked quite a few times,
38:00
actually, especially towards the end, towards the last five years
38:03
or so. And a lot of people did that,
38:09
yeah. But immediately once you did
38:11
that, you're stigmatized. And of course, you lost all your
38:14
possessions after, you know, when you left, when they allowed
38:17
you to leave, you lost all your. You could take anything with
38:20
you. I remember.
38:22
Reading a story of a couple of fellas that that they try and
38:27
hang, glide or take a balloon. I can't remember what it was.
38:31
Yeah, it was a yeah. Yeah, yeah, a balloon is a
38:34
famous story of swimming. Because some waterways were
38:37
borders too. Some people swim and yeah, but I
38:41
wasn't that, you know, I wasn't, I don't know, daring.
38:45
I didn't want to risk my life. Yeah.
38:47
I didn't want to risk my life. No.
38:49
Yeah. Yeah, right.
38:51
Yeah, I, I can't imagine just being, I mean, I, I don't know,
38:56
like you could just so desperate you're just going to try and
38:58
figure out how to, to fashion some sort of air balloon to.
39:06
And then that I'm not exactly quiet either, really, although I
39:12
don't know. Yeah, it sounds, it sounds so
39:20
foreign. It sounds so.
39:25
Well, but then during, but then during, I mean, do you remember
39:30
during COVID that you couldn't leave Australia?
39:33
Oh yeah, absolutely. But I mean, yeah, my
39:36
circumstances personally were slightly different in that I
39:39
didn't really have the greatest incentive to go anyway because I
39:44
was. Yeah, but that was, that's
39:46
beside the point, yeah. Completely beside the point, I
39:48
was still like Buck. Yeah, a lot of.
39:52
Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah.
39:53
I was still like, like incredibly.
39:58
I just have one saving grace, which was which was.
40:03
I had AI had a kid around that time, and so that was taking up
40:08
a lot of my time and energy, although I was still, you know,
40:11
very much deep into realizing what a giant scam this whole
40:17
thing is. And how dare you not let me.
40:20
But you know, that that that time was like, yeah, I mean,
40:25
maybe that's what the glimpse because I had family members
40:28
that were just, I just was like, I'm unsure whether to talk to
40:33
you about how insane this all is.
40:36
Yeah. Yeah, that was insane that
40:41
people didn't see how, how wrong, how wrong that was.
40:46
You know, like, yeah, that was. The fact that I couldn't walk
40:51
into. I remember one time I was with,
40:56
I was pushing a pram. I need to get a birthday card
41:01
for my wife and I walked into a store and she was a heavy set
41:11
woman, shall we say politely. And she said, have you like
41:19
signed in? This is like, this is like a
41:22
gift shop, you know, and they sold overpriced gift cards.
41:28
Said no, She said, we need to sign in.
41:32
And you also have you got a mask?
41:34
And I was like, have I got a mask?
41:36
I don't have a mask. And this was like after like it
41:40
was was kind of I guess in the middle of the time, I guess like
41:46
21 or something. So it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't,
41:50
it wasn't during the, like, the peak hysteria, you know, that
41:55
they that they foisted upon us. But it was kind of when
41:57
everything was slightly calmer and that there was a little few,
42:00
few more people. And anyway, this, this heavyset
42:02
woman. Yeah.
42:03
Have you signed in and have you got a mask?
42:06
And I was just like, I'm just, I just want to buy a birthday
42:08
card. And she's like she I remember,
42:11
I'll never forget this because she just shrugged her shoulders
42:13
like, like Jabba the heart, if he was to just shrug his
42:16
shoulders, you know, in this kind of like, And I remember
42:22
just thinking like, this is this is definitionally the banality
42:27
of evil right here. Like, you don't understand how
42:31
egregious, how disgusting, how evil you are right now because
42:36
you think you're doing the right thing.
42:40
Yeah, yeah. That was gross.
42:44
So I guess like it's, it's like that for 18 years for you,
42:47
right, in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:54
And that for for me, that was the scariest part of all the you
42:57
know, the the COVID that everyone, everyone, you know,
43:03
that most people took part in it basically and became, you know,
43:08
the secret agent or, you know, and I think in the Matrix, you
43:11
know, they have a name too. Yeah.
43:14
You know, and I'm like, oh, yeah.
43:17
And I'm like, oh, I've got to use my, my skills here that I've
43:20
learned growing up in in East Germany.
43:25
Were you getting like flashbacks or kind of like, I don't know,
43:31
like, like the embedded trauma just coming up, welling up to
43:35
the surface, all of a sudden being like, wait, no, not this
43:37
again. No, no, it's, it's a good
43:44
question. But no, that that didn't happen.
43:47
But I I could see immediately what was going on and I
43:52
immediately knew how to behave in that situation.
43:57
Interesting you had like a like a a manual, a skill like a
44:02
muscle memory kicked in. Yeah, that's right.
44:06
That's crazy. And I knew going to the protest,
44:09
you would put your, you know, you would put your name on the
44:11
list. I wouldn't.
44:12
I knew that. So during this, this peak
44:20
nonsense clown world, it's not clown world.
44:23
Peak clown world. We can't call that.
44:24
I'm not going to call it. I'm not as dumb as my event.
44:27
But you, you discovered Bitcoin at this point in time.
44:33
Yeah, well, you discovered sound money, I guess.
44:35
And then that fell down the rabbit hole, right?
44:37
Yep, Yep. And when you landed on Bitcoin,
44:43
did you have kind of an epiphany and aha moment, something that
44:48
was just like, oh, this is different to anything else I've
44:53
ever known, seen, heard of? Well, because I was never really
44:59
interested in in money or investing or anything like that,
45:03
not really, you know what I mean?
45:05
It sort of slowly grew on me, you know, it grew together with
45:11
the idea of, oh, you know, I've got a put some money aside.
45:16
I've got to look into, you know, you know how you know how to
45:20
secure the future. I guess that actually happened
45:24
at the same time. I've never done that before
45:27
that. Yeah.
45:28
I've never done that before. You know, I always thought, you
45:31
know, I'll work until I drive sort of thing.
45:38
Yeah. You.
45:39
You you got out of there and you've made a life quite well.
45:46
I mean, you're at the Bush bashes and like I'm doxing your
45:48
location or anything, but you're, you're in Australia and
45:51
the notion is that you, you got out and you're, you're now in
45:55
this, in this in Australia and the, the, the, the, the idea of
46:04
not having to work for the rest of your life.
46:06
Did you have that? Did you not have that until you
46:09
discovered Bitcoin or did you have that?
46:11
Yeah. No, no, I didn't have that
46:14
coming in, being here, being in Australia alone.
46:17
I discovered that through Bitcoin.
46:22
Yeah, I know, you know, all the, I always, you know, like, like
46:25
intuitively I knew that, you know, the war was not there to
46:29
protect us. I also intuitively knew that,
46:33
you know, superannuation and and pension and retire, you know,
46:36
that that was all a scam. I intuitively knew that, but
46:40
never really understood it. You know, maybe it was too good,
46:44
you know, because that made it so complicated.
46:46
But yeah, I quickly, quickly understood.
46:50
I quickly learned about the deception around that and.
46:55
Yeah, how how fake. Fake or you know how.
46:58
Yeah. Anyway.
47:00
A break just to say if you're enjoying the show and digging
47:02
what you hear, please consider supporting discovering Bitcoin
47:06
by shooting boost and sending or zapping the show.
47:08
Some stats. If you're listening via
47:11
podcasting 2 point O apps such as Fountain, Pod Verse or
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Breeze, it's easier done than said.
47:17
All you got to do is tap the boost button or set an amount of
47:20
stats to stream per minute while you're listening.
47:23
Alternatively, if you want to ZAP me direct via lightning
47:27
address, please send snaps and sats for zaps of sats in support
47:32
of the show to discovering Bitcoin at primal.net.
47:37
Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.
47:41
How has discovering Bitcoin changed you?
47:49
Well, yeah, no, yeah, the future looks way more bright.
47:55
And, you know, like my, yeah, I'm more relaxed, there's less
48:02
noise. It's less noisy out there.
48:06
I love that especially, especially at the moment where
48:10
everything's just going crazy over every little sigh up.
48:13
So less noisy, yeah, brighter outlook to the future.
48:19
I'm more relaxed then yeah, I can.
48:24
I mean, even with the salt, you know, the salt making comes into
48:28
it. You know, I can now I always I
48:30
always love making things, but I guess I was never good at, you
48:35
know, marketing or, you know, sticking with it.
48:38
And yeah. So even now I'm, I have the
48:42
luxury of like the slope time preference of I mean, making
48:47
soap and starting that up. It's it's actually pretty,
48:51
pretty slow and time consuming. And yeah, it's a low time
48:54
preference as well. Definitely.
48:57
Soap 21, the product is the brand that you've been working
49:02
on. You've recently got a like a
49:06
logo together, which is very cool.
49:10
Oh, it was so fun. This is that creativity that you
49:15
would not be allowed to do in the GDR at all.
49:20
And and so you know, this is this is being an entrepreneur,
49:24
this is, this is creating value and, and seeing what the market
49:28
has to say, which is just completely an utterly and no go
49:33
zone in, in under communism, no matter if you're in the GDR or
49:38
anywhere else for that matter. And, you know, you probably
49:46
wouldn't even be necessarily making Telus, so you certainly
49:51
wouldn't be selling it for Bitcoin.
49:53
Like, I mean, that's what you're doing exclusively.
49:54
You can't actually pay dollars. You don't want dollars.
49:57
I love that. Oh no, wait.
49:59
Tears law like in the flesh. Yeah, yeah, someone actually
50:05
gave me some at our local meet up.
50:07
You know, there was someone who gave me like, a dollar for it
50:10
and I'm like, it was like disgusting almost.
50:13
You know, I'm like, I don't want this.
50:15
What is this? Not for the soap, You know, like
50:18
it's like there was no value for value.
50:21
There's yeah. Anyway, yeah, no, it's funny
50:24
situation. It's fair, this it's a glimpse
50:28
into a world that I like. I look forward to to to being in
50:33
in which the the product that I'm getting like I bought a
50:38
bunch of bars at parks and I spent SAT to acquire them and at
50:48
no point did I think to myself or this is going to be very
50:51
expensive slope one day. Or, you know, I don't know if
50:55
this is like, you know, because from a, from a, you know, AI
51:00
guess a Bitcoiners perspective, there is this notion where you
51:03
want to kind of keep the stats for as long as you can because
51:07
you know, that maybe they'll be worth more in 12 months time or
51:10
two years or whatever it is. But you know.
51:15
Yeah, it's really tricky getting getting bitcoiners to spend
51:17
their such to. Part with their size.
51:19
Well, I can I can tell you with with the utmost confidence that
51:23
this is like genuinely, and I'm not I'm not trying to like
51:27
lightly shill or just shill or bigly shill.
51:29
This this soap, like honestly, it is so good.
51:33
The antecede one and the clove the clove one in particular.
51:39
I was a bit like sketchy on the clove.
51:40
I was like, do I get you know, and I think I end up buying like
51:44
5-6 bars off you or whatever, and I think I got the clove one
51:49
last thinking, no, I don't know about this clove one.
51:52
It's it's the best without a doubt.
51:54
I've done the lavender. I've got the aniseed.
51:56
The the clove is by far the best.
51:58
And honestly, no disrespect to brisket by the way, as well.
52:01
I've used his soap. It's great.
52:03
The quality is phenomenal and I didn't even really want fragrant
52:08
soap like a kind of like neutral fragrances when it comes to bars
52:12
of soap which you didn't have and I think I might have even
52:16
like. What do I do?
52:18
Yeah. You did that OK?
52:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It might have been me, but like
52:23
I'm just going to after we end this call, I'm going to just
52:26
like order, you know, like a ton of clove off you.
52:31
I think I I couldn't recommend highly enough.
52:34
It's such good quality soap and I'm more than happy to part with
52:38
a few sats to acquire some because yeah, soap 21.
52:44
I'll just give you a like a little a little free plug.
52:47
I reckon everyone should should any any bitcoiner, all the
52:52
Americans that listen, which is the majority of you listening to
52:55
this pod. You know, unfortunately you
52:57
probably can't get it. But I can't get soap minor.
53:00
So you know, now we're equal and we have we have soap 21 in
53:05
Australia, which is I'm all the better for it.
53:08
Well. Thank you for that.
53:10
Thank you for that. And it wouldn't, you know,
53:14
Bitcoin has had to help me with the website because I'm not, I
53:18
can't do it, but it takes a long time.
53:20
But I'm actually getting help, you know, setting up like a
53:25
BTCABTC server kind of shop where, you know, yeah, it's so
53:30
cool. Yeah.
53:32
So the community, you know, like I just love the Bitcoin
53:35
community, you know, I love our local meet ups and the Bush
53:39
bashes, you know, we just meet people from Australia wide and,
53:43
you know, our camps. And I have to say that, yeah,
53:48
one of the best, best parts for me.
53:51
Have you managed to orange peel any family members?
53:54
Are they a little bit confused that mums like selling soap and
53:59
only for Bitcoin? No, I I've learned to be quiet.
54:04
Now you know about my Yeah, it's I don't know.
54:10
Not saying that they don't care, but I haven't orange peeled
54:13
anyone. It's a waste of energy.
54:17
I mean, I get too impatient, you know?
54:19
I get too, like, frustrated, like, come on, you know?
54:22
And yeah, it's not, it's not my jam.
54:24
It's not my journey. Yeah.
54:27
Yeah, it's not your job. I'm.
54:28
I'm totally there with you. There's zero point trying to
54:32
orange pill people that don't want to be orange pilled.
54:34
It's the yeah. That's right.
54:37
But I mean, I guess you could have given out some bars of soap
54:39
maybe for Christmas and potentially said, listen, this
54:45
is this is pretty special so that you're being gifted here
54:49
because ordinarily I'd have to acquire some Bitcoin in
54:54
exchange. Good idea, but I hadn't done it.
55:04
Good. More for me.
55:05
But it's a good idea, yeah. More for you, yeah.
55:09
Speaking of that though, what do you wish more people knew about
55:11
Bitcoin? Oh, well, I wish people would
55:21
understand, you know what the dollar is, what the dollar is
55:26
they're holding. You know, it's you know how easy
55:30
it is to dilute the dollar A, which is easy to understand.
55:36
But another thing that I just recently really, you know,
55:42
really understood, which I forgot know what it was about
55:47
the dollar. Oh, that it is that it's a debt,
55:50
that it's issued as a debt. It's not that just double s up
55:55
the, you know, the evilness of it.
55:59
Oh, my God, yeah. I just wish people would
56:03
understand that, you know, how easy it is to dilute that dollar
56:08
and that it is diluted on a, you know, on a minute by minute
56:13
basis. And I can't even get people, you
56:16
know, to willing, yeah, to listen to that.
56:20
Well, they haven't touched the stove hard enough or maybe the
56:24
incentive wasn't strong enough. I mean, one of the cool things I
56:28
think that did come out of the, the COVID era is it did mint a
56:34
lot of Bitcoiners in that era. They looked around, they were
56:38
thinking to themselves, what the heck is going on?
56:43
This can't be right. And then from some sort of
56:46
serendipitous turn of events, they stumble upon Bitcoin and
56:52
and that's, that's, you know, that's really cool.
56:55
I mean, the I, I could imagine, I haven't, I haven't looked into
56:59
it too deeply, but I can imagine there'd be some reasonably
57:02
remarkable things that it came out of the oppression in the GDR
57:09
that may not have existed otherwise.
57:11
And yes, the trade-offs are awful and a lot of people
57:15
suffered, but it's kind of like the more you, the more you push,
57:23
the more the state comes down and pushes and makes life
57:26
unbearable, the more those with the will, the, the undeniable
57:34
will and intuition to push back. You know, they generally go on
57:41
to do pretty cool things, I guess.
57:48
Yeah. And I wish, just coming back to
57:50
that question, that people would understand the permissionless
57:56
permissionlessness of Bitcoin, you know that, Yeah.
58:02
No one is in. Charge.
58:03
Yeah, it's just. The fact that I could just buy
58:08
that soap off you right there and then at parks, Chuck it in
58:13
my bag. You have the sats in your wallet
58:16
Done. Like done.
58:18
There's no waiting for it to settle in 24 hours.
58:22
There's no, you know, charge back.
58:24
There's no, I mean, I could have given you cash as well, but then
58:28
you've got to try and get rid of that cash because it's just
58:30
melting in your in your pocket. But you know, yeah, the, the
58:36
permissionless nature of it, like just zapping people on
58:40
nostril is insane. You can just not ZAP people all
58:43
around the world for just make putting a meme up.
58:48
You know, I don't have to ask anyone's permission to do that.
58:53
Yeah, yeah. And also it's pretty, pretty,
58:55
pretty brilliant. It took me a while to to get a
58:58
get a leg of it, but but then again, you know, I could ask,
59:01
you know, trusted Bitcoiners that I know and you know, they
59:05
have a lot of patience. It took me ages to get it.
59:09
I. Will say just before we close
59:14
out the soap shell, you have inflated your price somewhat
59:18
since the Bush Bash $6 intro special.
59:22
I was getting $5, which I think was probably a good deal, a very
59:27
good deal. But yeah, you know, you, you got
59:33
to get the value for value. I think.
59:36
I mean, I like when I was buying those bars for 5 bucks and I was
59:40
like, dude, the butcher shop that I usually go to like I have
59:43
to buy like $10. So I was that was my price.
59:47
That was my ceiling was 10 bucks and you were halving that and
59:51
you're still halving it 6 bucks anyway.
59:56
Yeah, I mean, it's at 6 bucks. It's not, it's not going to go
59:59
up too much further. Just, you know, 1 little, 1
1:00:01
little step. And then I think I'll I'll sit
1:00:04
on that for a while and see. Yeah.
1:00:06
Well, I mean, if the purchasing pair of the SAT's go up, then
1:00:09
you know the consumer is the is the winner here and you're still
1:00:14
making enough to cover all of the.
1:00:17
Inputs and I definitely want to give that incentive yeah, yeah I
1:00:20
want to give the yeah incentives because you know I would need
1:00:23
the incentive as well and. Yeah, do you do?
1:00:27
Do you deliver? Like people can go onto
1:00:28
soap21.com and they can, they can order it and you don't even.
1:00:33
Yeah, they can sell tallow soap. It's like moisturizer a bunch of
1:00:38
things, but like you'll deliver them you you like post them.
1:00:43
Yeah, yeah, I post it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I post it out.
1:00:46
Yeah, I've been posting, you know, to, to WA, Melbourne,
1:00:53
places like that. Yeah, I've sent out a few
1:00:55
parcels, yeah. Amazing.
1:00:59
What does Bitcoin mean to you? It means community.
1:01:09
I hope it doesn't sound too cheesy, but it doesn't mean, I
1:01:12
mean without the community, you know, like what what would that
1:01:15
be? You know, what would the.
1:01:18
Yeah, just a blockchain, a tech thing.
1:01:22
Yeah. So community and also, yeah,
1:01:25
hope for the future. Is that something you've been
1:01:30
able to have? I mean, did you, did you have an
1:01:33
increase in hope when you left East Germany?
1:01:37
Did you feel that slight pulse of hope once you left and then
1:01:42
it slowly? Oh yeah.
1:01:44
Yeah, yeah. OK.
1:01:45
And then so this is another. Oh, definitely.
1:01:48
Yeah, it's another step. Yeah, amplification.
1:01:51
Of that, yeah, it's another a quantum leap.
1:01:54
Yeah, nice. It's literally it's a quantum
1:01:58
leap. Like I don't think it's nice
1:01:59
myself from like 5 or 6 years ago.
1:02:02
Oh wow. I don't.
1:02:04
Yeah, yeah. So Bitcoin net positive?
1:02:10
Oh man. See This is why I come up here.
1:02:17
Bitcoin is way way more than just getting rich.
1:02:19
I was having conversation last night with some friends and
1:02:25
talking about how they had to work a lot over Christmas in
1:02:29
order to keep their costs down so they didn't have to employ
1:02:33
and, you know, hire more staff. And, and I just mentioned like,
1:02:40
you know, you should look into this Bitcoin thing.
1:02:43
And it kind of, we had a, we had a, you know, it was
1:02:49
constructive. But yeah, it, it just, it's so
1:02:55
much more than getting rich quick.
1:02:57
That's the kind of what I was getting.
1:03:00
The pushback was, which was the high notes.
1:03:02
It's too late, you know, you know, it's a scam and blah,
1:03:06
blah, blah. And I was like, no, you could
1:03:08
literally just sell me the things that you make in your
1:03:11
shop and I'll buy them with Bitcoin if they're worth it.
1:03:17
Earth Mum. Yes, they wasn't yet.
1:03:20
OK, your soap is worth it without a doubt 100% I'm sorry
1:03:24
that this turned into a giant soap 21 show, but you know, we
1:03:28
got to get a real insight into what life was like living under
1:03:31
communism evolved since I hope realized that a Trabant motor
1:03:37
car is is genuinely a piece of garbage and that she should
1:03:41
never, it should never see the light of day again.
1:03:46
And yeah, thank you for spending some scarce time finding energy
1:03:50
telling us the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
1:03:54
Thank you.