Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.58 | Flipping the Script on Becoming an Online Influencer (Even With a Small Audience), with Business Coach & Podcast Host, Jenny Melrose

Transcript

Ep.58 | Flipping the Script on Becoming an Online Influencer (Even With a Small Audience), with Business Coach & Podcast Host, Jenny Melrose · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the Curiously Guided Podcast, the place for intuitive business owners and curious minds.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: We're your hosts, Mariah and Shay.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: And today we are having a conversation with our friend Jenny Melrose.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: She's a business coach and host of Influencer Entrepreneurs Podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: And this conversation is so fucking good.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like I just I walked away with so much energy and just like being able to see the different possibilities of making money in the entrepreneur space because Jenny really brings this perspective of coming from um going from like a full-time teacher to then becoming a full-time blogger.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that as of yet on this podcast, we've really had any conversations with anybody that's been a full-time blogger and like can bring that perspective to the conversation.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: And just the way that she sees things and sees the opportunity for content creators, whether you're doing content marketing for your business, whether you're trying to blog, whether you want to do like a blog as a hobby.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there's some juice in here for everybody, especially when she talks about the importance of finding and using your voice.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Me and Shay talk about this all of the time, just in terms of like marketing and like getting your business to stand out, getting your content to stand out.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: You really need to find your perspective and find like what you want to say and say it in a way that makes sense to you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then when we brought Jenny in, she kind of was like, Yeah, and if you want to start getting sponsored by brands and like making money through brand partnerships, brand sponsorships, or being just like an entrepreneur influencer and air quotes, like, not we didn't talk about like being an influencer like we see on Instagram, but more so of just like being a natural influencer in your community.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: But if you want to start working for brands, you really have to figure out like what you're here to say and what kind of community you want to build and like stay really true to yourself and to your people.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what's going to set you apart when it comes to working from brands.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate Jenny coming on here and just she really did like pull back the curtain and talk about like what it's like, like creating relationships with brands.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And she even went into like giving actual numbers of like how the fuck do you start pricing for this?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just really grateful for the conversation that we were able to have here.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, you know, she's gassing up SEO in the second half of the podcast.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, yo, Jenny, I'm about to hire you to fucking create a commercial for me.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I do want to mention Jenny does mention Google Search Council a lot in the episode.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to mention it in the intro.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna leave a link to how to set up Google Search Council for your website if you don't already have that set up.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's really great for SEO, but I'll leave a link in the show notes below if you guys don't have that set up for your website.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I left this episode feeling so inspired by Ginny.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just like all I've always loved online business because it feels like there's so many different ways to earn money.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like her story is such a great example story of she started the blog on the side.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: She built it up to a point where it replaced her income.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: She left the her nine to five, the teaching job, then she kind of pivoted and listened to her people and has taken the business in an even newer, more powerful direction.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: She just it feels like is the online business success story.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that I know with like a lot of caveats.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's not easy and there's a lot of challenges, but it's cool to hear the behind the scenes, like Mariah said, of what that process actually looked like over time, how she was able to make decisions and especially set boundaries, you know, as you are kind of pivoting and um just being really clear, like Mariah said, of who you serve and how you serve them.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I found that really, really empowering for me.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then just like the ideas of how to use sponsorships and how to use the blog.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a lot of really like classic ideas.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I asked her later in the episode, like, I thought blogging was dead, and like Mariah and Ginny kind of schooled me, but it just left me feeling like the internet and online is such a powerful place, as we all know.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: And there's just no limit on like how you can do this and how you can bring an income and how you can build your business and how you can serve people and that can really change and shift and be this really cool, ever-evolving thing.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope you guys get as much like inspiration and juice out of it as we did.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, let's go into Ginny's bio.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: So she is a former reading specialist who retired from her teaching career when her blog income far exceeded her salary.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Through hard work and dedication, her lifestyle blog, The Melrose Family, became regularly sought out by nationally recognized brands such as Neutrogena, Smuckers, Glad, Costco, Stanley Steamer, Sarah Lee, and many more.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: She is a content strategist that helps entrepreneurs better understand their messaging and unique position in the online space.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now she's combining her passion for teaching with her extensive experience of creating strategic content for online business owners via jennymelrose.com and her podcast, Influencer Entrepreneurs with Jenny Melrose, as well as her first book, Influencer Entrepreneurs, the four-step framework to building your audience, growing your business, and making more money online.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: With that, let's jump in.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Jenny, thanks for coming on the podcast.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: We are so excited to dive into your story.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: And just for our listeners, me and me and Jenny connected a couple weeks ago when I was interviewed for her podcast.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: And after the interview, we kind of started talking about like how she got into the online space and all of that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, whoa, wait a minute.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's like some really juicy cool stuff here.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: So can you kind of take us back to the beginning?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: If I remember correctly, you were a teacher, and then you kind of got into this online space being a blogger.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why did you start blogging?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: What made you make that decision?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you both, first of all, for having me come on.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: I appreciate it.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yes, I started off.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: I was an inner city school district teacher, elementary.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_04: I was a reading specialist, and I like to tell people anytime I speak that I welcome questions because I was used to dodging chairs for my students.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: It was a tougher audience as far as when I was in the classroom, but I loved my kids, but teaching definitely changed and wasn't really sure how long I was going to be able to stay in it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: But I had my first daughter back in 2009 when I was still a teacher, and I kind of lost myself.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know who I really was beyond being a mother, and that was scary to me.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: So my husband at the time said, find a hobby.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Okay, well, I was a creative writing major in college.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: Blogging is a thing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: I see all these people doing this.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna start doing start blogging.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I started blogging, and back then we blogged about what we ate and where we went and just silly things that it didn't actually have any strategy behind it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: But about six months in, there was a conference in York City, because I was about an hour north of the city at that time where we lived in New York, and it was blogger, huge conference.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to my husband, I want to go do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go see what this is all about.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I went and I was just blown away by the women.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: I was fortunate to sit at a table with probably a handful of bloggers that were already making six figures.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: And this was back in 2010, where there wasn't a lot of information out there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: There weren't podcasts, there were, they weren't sharing how they were necessarily monetizing because it wasn't as easy to put it out there.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I learned a ton about how I could strategically place my content and use blogging to be able to grow an audience and then be able to monetize via sponsorships, affiliate marketing, ad income, all these different ways that doing what I loved could become something that actually could support my family.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I did the blogging thing um back uh up until about 2015.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: We were to a point where in New York we were sick of the weather and we also were sick of the price of taxes.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: And my husband said, Listen, you can replace your teaching salary in this upcoming year.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: We'll leave, we'll move, you retire, and we're good.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: And in 2015, I replaced my teaching salary of 75,000 with only my sponsorship income.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: It didn't even include anything extra.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: And we were able, I was able to leave teaching.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: So it kind of developed from there.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then I started getting getting asked to speak about how did you do that and created courses and content and all the things to help other bloggers figure out how they could start treating their business like an actual business and make money that could support their families.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: What were some of the things you did when you were pivoting from like this is a hobby to this is a real business?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you actually treat the blog like a real business?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: So it became instead of creating content where it was just a story about what it was I was doing, I got understood that I needed to figure out my positioning.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: What was the problem that I was going to solve for my audience that would continue to bring them back to me?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: And at that time, Instagram didn't exist.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Pinterest had just started.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I got very involved in understanding how Pinterest worked and would start figuring out and pivoting with every new social media platform that came about and started to figure out how to use the marketing in order to drive traffic back.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now I will say that the one mistake I definitely made is I didn't understand how important emailist was back then and took way too long to start growing my list.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: But it was the marketing and understanding how I could connect with an audience and then drive them back to my blog for them to be able to get the full content and understanding of how to solve their problem.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like, yeah, this just takes me back to kind of when I first started in business.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, like I always say that, like, well, everybody always says it's not fucking me, but it's like when you get started in business, you you have more time than you have money.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was kind of a reason why I started blogging.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of the story of how I discovered SEO, was like I just started blogging because I was like, I don't know, I guess like people blog and like getting on Pinterest and things like that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we actually haven't had anybody come on and talk about Pinterest.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, maybe we should consider that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Cause when when I think about Pinterest, I think of it as kind of like you said, like this big marketing hub.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's essentially more like a social media or it's more of like a search engine than it is a social media platform.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of online business owners that I talk to, even some of my clients, they're just like, Yeah, but isn't Pinterest just for like cute rooms and like decor?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you mean it's driving traffic to like your blog and like your services and like you're getting clients and stuff like that?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess my question is uh like how like was it through this blogging conference?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did you make friends?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said that there wasn't really any like podcasts or like people blogging about making money blogging.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, how did you kind of learn how to turn this into a business and like the marketing aspect of it?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I definitely made connections from that conference that I stayed in contact with, and we utilized Facebook with Facebook groups for bloggers that we could kind of try to understand what was going on and learn from each other.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the best things that I did was that conference because I understood the power of networking.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: It didn't matter that I just started, they literally took me under their wing and was like, this is what you can do with it, this is what you need to do, this is who you need to connect with.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_04: And back then it was really popular to do blog hops where everyone would come on a certain day of the week and they could submit their content to your site.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: And we that's how we found each other.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: So everyone would be submitting their content.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: You'd have up to three, four, five hundred people submitting their blog posts, and then all the links would be would live there and we would pick features to then be able to do like a roundup, like you often see now.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: Now, again, it didn't help for SEO, those blog hops, but the connections that we all made were we would find out about a new Facebook group or we would find out about a new person that was perfect for us.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I think one of the advantages that I had is I was never afraid to start something.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: I just was always one that would jump into the deep end without looking to see how deep it was.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I started a blog hop and I reached out to a couple of girls whose content I liked and said, Do you want to co-host this with me?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then we utilized our social media to be able to bring everyone back to us.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: So our names got networked that way because we were seen as hosts, and then we were just able to kind of grow traffic that way because if you got featured, especially with some of these huge sites that had been around forever, it drove a ton of traffic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: So it was, I mean, in the beginning, uh it was interesting that you said about Pinterest because that's also something that we've watched change.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: When I first started on Pinterest, it was you put up your content and you immediately saw traffic because it wasn't a search engine then.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Then it was just about who followed you.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: It was more almost social media.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then when they actually made it had it go public back a couple of years ago now, it changed and became more of a search engine.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the important part with that is to remember always thinking about where's your audience?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: How do they consume your content?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: Are they going to go to TikTok to look for the type of content that you're looking for?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Or are they going there to space out and watch cat videos or you know, the dancing videos?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like always understanding how your target audience consumes content is huge.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you're growing this blog, you're networking, if everything's getting bigger and bigger.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: At what point?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like to sell?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like take us through that whole journey.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: So when I left teaching, I kept the Malrose family, which was my lifestyle site that I primarily had turned and pivoted into a food blog.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: I had that till 2019.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: And what happened was is 2015 to 16, when we first moved down here and I was done teaching, I was getting asked to speak.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: I think I spoke in 13 different conferences that year.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I left, I'd come back to an inbox full of more questions about what I had said.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: What do I do about this?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: And how do I do this?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: And what do I do about that?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I listened to Pat Flynn at that time and he always said, if you get a particular question asked over and over and over and over again, that's a product.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I decided, you know what?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go back into my teacher box.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna create a course.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I created my signature course, Pitch Perfect Pro, that started to then have to be this totally separate brand.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't the audience for the Mallrose family that were coming for recipes, it was blank bloggers.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I had to create a separate site, jennymalrose.com, um, in order to house all of the content and to also house, of course, the courses and the products that came out of that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: So it was kind of this I got to a point where the Jenny Mallrose side I loved because I am I'm an I am a teacher through and through.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: That is just how I talk.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna walk you through it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna give you examples, I'm gonna probably give you homework and you're going to hate me, but it's all part of the process.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so when it got to that point, and then I decided, you know what, I'm gonna start a podcast along with it.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: That side of my business took over and I didn't have as much attention.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I hired a team to run the Melrose family, and then I decided I was gonna host a conference.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: And once I added the conference to the Jenny Melrose side of things, I couldn't pay attention to the Melrose family anymore at all.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_04: And just said, all right, let me figure out how I can sell this.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: So ended up selling it back in 2019, is when I sold it.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that was the year it actually the sale of my site closed the day before I had my first in-person conference.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it was kind of this perfect kind of all came together.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Had it not, it would have been quite the process.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because it was a lot.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm just wondering like, this is probably such a dumb question.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you can put a sign in your yard and say for sale, you know, like what does that look like?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: Buy my blog, buy my blog.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's gotten so much easier over the years, but at the time, um, in blogging groups, people were starting to talk about it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: And there are actual sites that work almost like a mortgage, like someone that was gonna list your house, they list your site, and it's a marketplace where people can come and be able to take a look and they go through the whole process, and you got to give the PL and be able to show the profit from it, and then they put in an offer and you renegotiate.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm trying to remember the name of the site that I use for that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: There's a couple different ones now.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's not coming to me though.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what was the name of it?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: I if it comes to me, I promise you I will you know what it is, but it's not coming to me.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_04: But it was, it's like a marketplace where you can actually just list your site.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: They ask for like all the back-end information to be able to verify everything, and you have to be able to give the PL and all the information to be able to show the value of it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: What a beautiful reminder that, like, yo, build your shit on land that you own because essentially your blog, your website is it's online real estate, essentially.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it kind of like it makes sense that you would have to go through a similar process because it's essentially similar to you building, let's say, like an in-person physical shop and you're driving foot traffic to it.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like people want to know the information and those and those numbers behind it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: So that makes sense.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in terms of like monetizing the blog and like making money from it, I just and I haven't dove too deep into this on my own, honestly.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember kind of like when I started blogging, everybody was like, Google AdSense, set up Google AdSense.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then I started getting into SEO, and I was like, the fuck?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do that, dude.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: That slows down my website like a lot.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And and then you're seeing that like Google AdSense isn't really paying as much money anymore.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And people are like, I made$2.75 from Google AdSense.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, and you think that under$5 is worth me putting some fucking code on my website and slowing that shit down and then not being found on Google?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: You're out of your gourd.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I always kind of avoided that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: But like from my perspective, it's kind of like, oh, that's really the only way that people would make money from their blog back then was Google AdSense was the thing that people were talking about, or they would start dabbling in just like the digital product realm.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, how did you discover sponsorships?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I had a decent social media following.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: And when I say decent, I never had 10,000 followers on Instagram.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: I never even when I sold it, I never had 10,000 followers.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: But I had some presence on Facebook.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: I at the time had a huge presence on Google Plus, which I have to bring up because of course we talk about don't build your business on rented property.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: 660,000 followers on Google Plus, and they went but bye, shut it down.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: So perfect reason why you don't build your whole business there.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: But I had social media presence, and one of the things that I did really well is I told a story where I could talk about being able to use certain products, but I told a story that pulled in my audience.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: They knew my voice, my positioning was really very clear on who I was, what I stood for.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: And because of that, the brand saw it as okay, she has her branding down.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: Let's see if we can't figure out a way.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_04: Now, the first time someone reached out to me about sponsorships, I was just thrilled.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: Didn't understand the pricing or anything of it.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then as I kind of got a better feel for okay, what is my value?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: What can I see bring social media-wise?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: What can I bring traffic-wise?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: I understood how to put together a proposal where they would pay for me to create a blog post or they would pay for me to um produce content on social media that went along with the blog post, a pin, uh, a video, if it was going to be YouTube back then.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: Because of course, back then reels didn't even exist.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it was that like putting together a package that I could be able to show them.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: Here's the numbers on this.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it was when influencer marketing was really becoming a thing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: Not the thing now that we see so much of, but it was starting.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: They wanted more than anything else, they wanted the blog content because they knew we were then going to do the social media in order to get the traffic to the blog.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: And the great thing about the blog is it's always there.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're using SEO, it'll continue to grow and become known and become found when people are searching for a particular topic, especially as a food blogger.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: So if I created a recipe like a lasagna and I used someone's spaghetti sauce as part of it, because mine were easy recipes.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: That I was not making uh my very own spaghetti sauce, I would link to that or I would talk about the spaghetti sauce and how it had the great flavoring and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then here's all the steps in order to be able to create the lasagna.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: So it naturally, authentically worked with my content and worked for my audience.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: That is so interesting.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, what I'm hearing is I've heard you say many times positioning and how important positioning is.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the question I had pop up as you were talking was like, okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting started.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get started with sponsorships.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are your tips?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, it sounds like one is get really clear on who you're for and what problem you solve.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you have to absolutely know that because if you don't understand what makes you different from everyone else and how you can really set yourself apart, that's where you're dead in the water.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: I've had a client one time who um was a frugal blogger, and we were talking via Zoom and she could not come up with her positioning.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I looked at her and I was like, remind me again how many kids you have.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_04: And she got kind of annoyed with me with me.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, You know, I'm pregnant with my 11th child.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, she says, You were one of the first ones I told.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, mm-hmm.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_04: And where do they go to school again?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, You know my homeschool.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I kind of just sat back because it's that simple for some people.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: She was very fortunate it was that simple.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: But she looked at me and she goes, I'm a homeschooling mom of 11 kids that can teach people how to frugally do a budget for$400 a month.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Now, of course, this was before way before the craziness of the groceries now.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what she was able to do.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: And she wasn't stepping into that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: She wasn't talking about the fact that she had 11 kids that were being homeschooled.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's huge when you have an audience of moms that are trying to do things time-sensitive and to save themselves time and money.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Why it never came up?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, but all it took was a couple simple questions.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: And she kind of looked at me and went, oh, it's a lot of figuring out what is your background?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: What did you do professionally, maybe before you started blogging?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: What does it personally consist of?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a dry sense of humor?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: That is a huge people assume that personality doesn't have anything to do with it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: I, when I first moved down to North Carolina, had a daughter that did gymnastics, and we'd been going there for like two years.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I was sitting waiting for her to come out of gymnastics class, and the girl behind the desk goes, Melrose.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Oh boy, what did I do?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: My kid must have done something wrong.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, I just found this apple pie cupcake, Grassipe.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, You made it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, What are you talking about?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, I didn't see your name or see any of your pictures.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, I was reading it and I could hear your voice in my head.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, It's the way you talk to your kids.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: She goes, everything about it was your voice.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then I scrolled down to the end and I saw your picture and it was you.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's what you want.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: You want people to be able to tell that it's you and your personality and your branding, your positioning, and being able to tie it all together.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's so important because a lot of us get online and we just try to reverse engineer what we see, and we're trying to mimic, you know, like, oh, I need to be more like this person.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes the consequence is we lose ourselves in the process.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then yourself is really what sells.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how can you make a positioning around who you are uniquely as an individual?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because your uniqueness is what's going to draw people to you and attract people to you.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I and to your point, you know, it I like that example you shared of the homeschooling mother because I think that um I use this metaphor a lot on the podcast, but we're in our own jar and we can't read the label on the outside, and how important it is to get a coach or someone on the outside that can kind of look at you and duh, it's obvious.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, I don't know it's obvious.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've got like a million things that's all really blurry.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so is that I I know now that post blog you have gotten into business coaching.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so is that kind of how you're supporting clients, or can you take us through like what's happened after the conference?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what have you stepped into and how are you helping people now?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I have still have my signature course.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: That is the the one that most people will find me, especially my food bloggers, because those were the circles that I ran in as far as Facebook groups.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and now I also have a membership site where we're continually talking about the changes, which Mariah is actually one of our guest experts coming and talking about SEO and how the AI is going to, of course, impact that.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I also do masterminds and I work one-on-one coaching.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: And out of all my programs, I love my masterminds because they're a small group.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: I get to know all of their businesses, only six women.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: We meet three times a month and we're able to really dive into what they're stuck on in their business to the point where I'll do an interview or I'll be doing a free training and I accidentally will be like, and so and so, you got to make sure that you have your opt-in.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: And one of them heard me do it, and she's like, You throw me under the bus, but great example.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's I get to know their businesses so well.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that is what I do.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like for me, being that teacher, I want to get into the I want to get into your business.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: I want to understand what do you understand?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: What do you know?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: What don't you know, where are you trying to put your time.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of times, especially with those that are trying to blog, one of my first questions is what tool are you using for keyword research?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because that will always tell me whether or not they understand it or not.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_04: And for a lot of people that are starting, they don't understand it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: And there's nothing wrong with that, but you have to be able to figure it out.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was a mistake that I made for a really long time.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: I was probably can remember myself saying, I don't need to understand SEO.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: I've got Pinterest.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_04: Clearly, that it's not the way Pinterest works anymore.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I need SEO because Pinterest is a search engine.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so just being able to figure out what pieces, what how what is how is their foundation laid?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: That's the way I always ask them.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I'm just gonna figure out what kind of pieces we're missing within your foundation.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm always asking about keyword research, I'm asking about their email list, and then I'm asking about how consistently they're creating content because that is an issue.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: If you're only producing content once every two months, three months, it's gonna be very difficult to grow.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're not growing that list to be able to continue to engage people, if you are trying to sell a product, product or service, it will not sell.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: They have to continually feel like they know you so that you can build that like no trust factor.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: And when when it comes to creating content, because I mean, like, I don't know about you, but like I see everywhere it's like everybody get on Instagram.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Instagram is the only way to grow.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Instagram, Instagram, how many followers do you have on Instagram or TikTok?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, I don't I don't fuck with TikTok, but some people do.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so people are like, TikTok, Instagram, TikTok, Instagram.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then it makes everybody else forget that there's different ways to grow their business.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: And like usually when we hear about sponsorships or influencers, we assume that people are talking about social media and Instagram and TikTok.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, like your clients and like how you help people, or just like your perspective in general.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody's like, ooh, doing sponsorship sounds fun.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess the next question is like, do I have to grow my Instagram following, or do I just grow traffic to my site?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is a blog post still what some brands want?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Or do I have to jump around and take like quick shot Instagram reels and TikToks that keep people's attention and like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's your perspective on all that?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: So the thing to remember about brands is that often their marketing team is made of right out of college 20 somethings, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: So they are very much shiny object.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: They see TikTok.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's what we want.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: We want to get all over TikTok because that's the new and biggest platform.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: But as we can see, those platforms have issues.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: We are seeing right now TikTok is in front of Congress about a potential ban.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: So the brands that understand blogs and what that can, the long tail effects of SEO and traffic are the ones that ultimately I'm looking to work with.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: But you often have to know it yourself because you're going to probably have to teach them.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, I'm getting 20,000 hits a month to this one article that you technically could rank for.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I could create another article that we could tie together, interlink to each other, and you're gonna get all the con the traffic for that keyword, but this keyword is gonna send you even more.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: When you can articulate that to them, that makes all the difference.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times they just are automatically thinking social media, but they're also seeing what's happening.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_04: We're watching Instagram, barely anybody gets seen anymore.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: And if it is, it's for real.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: So, with that being said, they have gone on in our space now for bloggers.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: All I'm hearing the experts say about TikTok and Instagram is Instagram's for the followers you already have to continue to engage them.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: And TikTok is to grow and get grow and get viral.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's scares the crap out of me that people are gonna spend a ton of time growing TikTok, yet we clearly see that something isn't going to have potentially happen with them getting banned or not knowing what direction it's going to go and you just never know with social media.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: So, yes, brands do still do want social media, but if you have a small following, it doesn't it doesn't matter.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: You just have to be able to say who your people are, what they're coming to you for, and how they're going to engage.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_04: I've had clients that have had 500 followers on Instagram do better than someone that has 54,000 followers on Instagram.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's because their people are there for the right reasons.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: Too many people are going viral on Instagram and TikTok, and they're not going viral for content.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: They actually that's in a line with what they're going to create with their business.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's content that doesn't even make sense.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: They're a health coach and all of a sudden they're over here going viral for a real where they're jumping out of a laundry basket to scare their husband.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: How does that connect?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: I know we want to show personality, but if you go viral for jumping out of a laundry basket, people are going to expect to continue to see that.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: So they're not the right people, it's not the right audience.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: Numbers are still what they will ask for, but it has to be the right people, though.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: So we are in our third season of Curiously Guided, and there's nothing that fires us up more than making this podcast and hearing all the positive impacts it's having on our listeners.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Up until this point, this has been a pure passion project.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: But we've got bills and expenses for this podcast, y'all.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you have the means and would love to support us in creating new episodes, feel free to head over to curiouslyguided.com slash support to buy us a coffee.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want even a deeper dive, we're excited to offer.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to now um start doing some strategy sessions where you get both Mariah and I's brains on your business.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, there's nowhere else in the world where you can we Mariah and I both don't work with people in such micro ways.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: So this is kind of a cool thing to get both of us looking at your business in kind of like a one-off strategy session.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Just imagine us two and you together diving deeper on your business, marketing sales, and everything in between, um, all while filtering it through the lens of strategy energetics and energetics, which you know is our style.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to learn more about what working with Mariah and I could look like, head on over to our website, curiously guided.com/slash session, to get the details.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys so much for hanging out with us.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you so, so much.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's get back into the episode.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I really love the jumping out of the laundry basket example.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: That just made me laugh because like it that's what does happen.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like you never like we can't control what goes viral.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like you create one of those pieces of content that showcase your personality, and then as it's going viral, you're just like, fuck, that's the one.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's the one that's gonna like be my viral video here.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then people are gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna follow the funny girl.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, actually, half my shit's about SEO.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even that funny on here half the time.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's interesting.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I don't know if our listeners are aware, but there is a difference also between like sponsored content and what's called UGC content.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: So UGC content is user-generated content.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: So that's like content that you essentially create yourself and then you like quote, like sell it to the brand where they pay for that content and then they post it on their social media or their blog.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Is like, do your clients also do like user-generated content, like basically be like a um, let's say a blog post like ghostwriter, like they'll create content and then give it to the brand for the brand to post on their blog.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is that something that like tends to generate money for bloggers too?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: It definitely does, but it normally works in the reverse.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: So, for example, I can give you a perfect example for this.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_04: I got um reached out to years ago a trash bag company, and they wanted me to do a four-day trash bag challenge.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to them, Listen, this isn't who my audience is.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: They want beautiful recipes, they want something that's going to be easy, something that's gonna be on Instagram.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: They'll come to.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see if I can come up with something.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I came back to them and said, Listen, I want to make a Caribbean fish taco recipe.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's the keyword.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: This is going to be all of the content, all of the images.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: And they kind of were like, I don't know about this.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: I said, that's fine.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna walk away though, even though you're willing to offer$2,500 for this package.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: I am not doing a four-day challenge.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: I can incorporate a story that explains the four-day challenge that you're talking about in so many terms.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: They said, okay, fine, run with it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I created the content.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: And in that Caribbean fish taco recipe, I told the story about how my youngest daughter, who at that time is like four or five, didn't finish her Caribbean fish taco, threw it in the garbage.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: We went away for a long weekend.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_04: And we came back, and the house still smelled great.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: It was three sentences about the brand.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: It reminded them, it built brand awareness for that trash bag company.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: And when they read that content, my audience saw that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: But everything else about that post was the Caribbean fish taco recipe.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: They came back a year later, that brand did the trash bag company and bought the rights to the photo and the recipe to be able to have on their trash bag website.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it's normally in reverse where they've created content for themselves to be able to use for traffic and social media that they'll use for themselves.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: And a brand says, okay, this makes sense.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: This is doing really well for her.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'll buy the rights to it.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I can now have it on my own website or social media, or they'll sponsor and put money behind your ad that you've already the post that you've already created on social media, put money behind that.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Where again, when they go to sponsor something like that, you're able to get a cut of that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_04: So there's all different ways, but it's a matter of it's originally your content, them just saying, Oh, we're gonna take this and put and share it on our social media and we'll tag you.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, no, no.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: They need to pay for that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Take us a little bit.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm um really impressed by the level of boundaries that you're setting with these folks.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've my experience with people that have gotten sponsorships is like once they start coming in, that's great, but it's you have to really lay a clear boundary of I am available for this, I am not available for that, because the consequence is your audience, right?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's your your biggest asset you have is that audience buy-in.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so walk us through like how do you set boundaries around that?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's a yes or a no?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you think about that?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's important that it has to be a perfect fit for your audience.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be able to find a way to either tell the story like I did with that trash bag company and still be able to serve them with content they're going to love.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: So that image went viral on Pinterest.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: It did well SEO-wise.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: It was the content that my audience wanted, even though it was sponsored and did talk about trash being not smelling up my house.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it was in there in an authentic way.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the first piece is thinking about will my audience appreciate this?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: Will they find value from this?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: Does this solve the problem that my audience is used to coming to me for?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: If the answer is no, you walk away.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_04: If you can't find a way that incorporated, I always recommend because otherwise, what you're doing is you're selling out your audience for potential sponsorships.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: And in doing that, you're gonna lose the trust of that audience as well as all those people.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: So it's going to fail when you go to promote it, which honestly, for me, sponsorships are not supposed to be about one and done.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: I want a long-term relationship with a brand.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna do something for them once once, and then I'm gonna come back and say, look, this is how well it did.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: This is I provide them with a culmination document that shows them everything so that I can then turn around and say, let's talk about a long-term contract, let's do three months, six months, a year.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how you truly make good money from sponsorships because it becomes consistent revenue rather than a one and done.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: And in the same way for your audience, your audience starts to associate you with that brand.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: They don't find it weird that you're jumping around from one brand to the next because they're seeing you sticking with the same brand year over year.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the things when it comes to boundaries, uh again, I mean a teacher example.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Neutrogena had come to me years ago and had said, listen, here's a Facebook re post we want you to put up.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's a video of Kristen Bell, who I think is adorable.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but they wanted me to do it for free.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I responded back and said, Listen, I this is actually a perfect fit.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_04: I have two daughters.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_04: One is very pale, and then I have one that is very tan.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_04: I said, we actually only use your sunscreen.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: And it was totally true.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: That was the sunscreen that we used at that time.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I'd love to put together a proposal, but I'm not willing to just post something for free in order to keep the integrity of my site to my readers and to any of the previous brands I've worked with.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: I only work on compensated content.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: Created a proposal.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_04: They said, sure,$2,500 off of that proposal.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it was one post with multiple social shares that was included in the package.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: After that was done, I went back and said, okay, let's do a long-term contract.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: That free post that they asked me to do at the end of everything resulted in$17,000 for me when they asked me to do it for free.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: And if I hadn't, if I'd been like, sure, oh my god, neutral Gina, Kristen Bell, yeah, I'll totally post this.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: I would never have had that.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what a lot of bloggers, I still see that where they're not willing to stand up for themselves and value their time.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: The time that you put into a blog post to create that content, the social media that goes along with it, they would pay thousands of dollars for that for photographer and branding and all the things that they would have to come in to actually create that content.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: You need to know and value your own time.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I always tell people you have to have a hate rate.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: You decide what that rate is, the rate at which you'll hate yourself and hate the content that you're going to work on.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because some people are willing to work for free.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_04: And if it's something you're going to purchase and it's high enough value for your time that you would normally charge that anyway, fine.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: I am not saying that no one should ever work for free or in exchange for product, but you have to do it in a way in which you're either trying to get a long-term contract in the end, or the value for your time and money is worth it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: How do you figure out what that pricing is?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: Such a good question.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: So your blog post is going to normally be based upon upon the amount of traffic that you see in 30 days.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: We normally will say anywhere from 100,000 to about 150,000 page views in a 30-day time, can ask for$1,000.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: So you know when we talk about Instagram, we say for every 10,000 followers, you can charge 100 bucks.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's like industry standard.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: You Google it, that's what comes up.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's kind of the same thing for a blog.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: You can say like 100,000, 150,000.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna ask for about a thousand dollars for that blog post.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Then you can add in your social media.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: So however many followers you have on Instagram, um, your email list.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_04: If you have an email list and you can tell me the click rate and the open rate, and it is above 35% for open rate, you can charge a decent amount depending upon how many subscribers you have.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I think a lot of bloggers forget that.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then especially if you're going to do like if you're doing a real deal on Instagram, it's worth more money because it's more likely to be seen than just a post to your side.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_04: Anytime you do video, it's worth more.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's more time consuming.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: So it does kind of get tied to.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Your subscribers, but I always recommend do a case study.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: Do something that could be seen as sponsored and put it out there, like the blog post, the social media, everything that goes along with it, so that you have numbers to be able to go back to them and say, listen, I know I have a small email list, like maybe I only have a thousand email subscribers, but my click rate is 57% or my open rate is 57% and my click rate is 11.81%.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: That is huge.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_04: So being able to articulate those numbers and knowing the numbers behind your business.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where you start to actually treat it like a business when you know your numbers and the strategy that you're putting into place of whether or not it's working.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's really helpful.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for sharing those numbers and everything because it's like we see so often.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've watched numerous YouTube videos and I've gotten hit with some Instagram reels about like how much to charge for this and that.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: And people are just so vague about it that it's like, okay, I get it, but like where the fuck do you start?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like if you're not in this, you don't know what's normal.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like you don't want to undercut yourself, but also if you're interested in doing it, you also don't want to shoot for the stars and then nobody bites, and then you're feeling like deflated about it.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: So my my next question, it kind of just piggybacks off of this one.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: But like, would you offer a lower price for an initial like collaboration with a brand just so like maybe they can get a taste of it?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Or it's like you can be like, ooh, yeah, I'll give you this appetizer over here, and then that appetizer does really well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, okay, now you're ready for the full course meal.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is it normal to have like a like a quote, like like intro rate, like we might do for like service providers and stuff like that?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: So what I would recommend is still have kind of like looking at all your numbers, put together that package price for all the deliverables you're going to provide.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_04: But the easiest way to know if you are underpricing yourself is if the brand comes back within 24 to 48 hours and goes, Yep, sign a deal.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: That tells me you you're underpricing yourself.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: Their job is to get you for less than what they don't want to pay a ton of money for you.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: And they're going to try just to negotiate unless you are underpricing yourself.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Years ago, I was at a conference and two brand reps were up in front and they said to a room full of bloggers, our job is to cut you in half.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: So no matter what you give us as a price, it's not that we don't value you, it's that our job is to get you for less.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: So we're gonna cut you in half regardless of what you propose.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's the reason that I teach a package proposal.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you said I'm going to charge$1,000 for a blog post and that's all you told them, and then they go, Oh, but we only have a budget for$500.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_04: You have no way to negotiate.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: But if you said for a thousand, I'm gonna give you a blog post, three social media posts, um, and an email blast to your list.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Now when they say, Well, we only have a budget for 500, you start taking out the things that are that are gonna get you comfortable at 500.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times when you start doing that, you take up the most valuable things, like a real, and all of a sudden they're like, oh no, we found the money, we'll do that.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's just knowing the value that you do provide and understanding that they are definitely going to negotiate with you.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's such powerful advice because how many people do we know that get asked to do free work or in exchange for, I know quite a few online business owners that their first many years they were just getting product and they didn't know how to break that barrier into actually getting paid.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: And really it's on, it's of what I'm hearing from you, it's on you in a way, right?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: You need to be aware of your value and your boundaries.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I I talk about, I love the way you think about pricing.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I always call that my saltiness meter.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about like, how much do I need to get paid to not show up to this project salty?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because like the client's not going to be happy, I'm not gonna be happy.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what is that number?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I love what you're saying, it's it's a nuance, like, know your numbers, know your worth, and also check in with yourself.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you need to show up to this?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that's like such an empowered place to think about pricing.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: And to your point, I think it's so important to be sharing what these companies' motives are.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're negotiators, they want less, they want free, but you don't have to say yes to that.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it may seem like a big opportunity, but it's still okay to say no and to ask for what you think your value is.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_04: I recently had a client just this past weekend reach out to me and say, Listen, uh, Peloton wants to use one of my videos and they want to sponsor it.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: They want to put it on their channels.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: I really love Peloton.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: I really want to create a relationship.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, uh, pump the brakes.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's Peloton.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: You're not giving it to them for free.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna charge and you're gonna tell them you want 25% of the ad spend for the first 30 days, anything after that, it's gonna continue for every 30 days.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_04: And they came back and said no.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well, she also turned around and said, No, you can't have my content then.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: So it's understanding that yes, it's the biggest thing is when it comes to sponsorships, when even when it comes to like pitching clients and talking to potential coaching clients, it's a no for right now, it's not a no forever.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_04: That brand is going to understand she's a professional, she knows what she's doing, she knows her stats, she knows her birth.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna come back to you maybe when they do have a marketing budget for doing that kind of content.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think she was kind of like deflated, and that was what I said to her.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know what is going on in their business.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they have a new campaign starting in the spring that they're gonna want to sign you on for or the summer.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: And because as you just stood up for yourself and show that you were professional, they'll come back to you.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think that that is something to always understand with brands is that you don't know the back ends of their marketing.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to be able to stand up for yourself and know your value.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And know that they set new budgets every quarter.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, like they may not have said it this quarter, but they'll keep you in mind and set it next quarter.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, it's a positioning thing when you come in and say, No, I don't work for free and here's why.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now all of a sudden you're an expert and your ROI goes up in their eyes.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: It may just be like a matter of time, right?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's also true when I have a lot of my bloggers that will say, Well, I don't know how to be able to say, Well, my blog is worth this.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: And like, but you have to teach them.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be able to say to them, this is how I do my keyword research, and this is the amount of traffic that I'm seeing in Google Search Console for this ranking keyword.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: I could take it and be able to create a new post that I can interlink that is going to drive traffic faster to the content that I already have because Google's already put me as an expert.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the the marketing, they don't understand the SEO side.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_04: So if you can give them actionable numbers and where you're using it, all of a sudden they sit back and go, She knows what she's talking about.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, here, you can have this money.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_04: Let's do this.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you're so right.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: It is usually a group of like 23-year-olds that like just got out of an internship at HubSpot or something.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: So like keeping that target audience in mind is really helpful.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things that I teach people is you do not wait for them to reach out to you.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_04: You pitch them, you reach out to them.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_04: And with the 20-year-olds in mind, they're just coming out, they're likely to move from job to job.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_04: They're not going to be there probably for a full year.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: They might be there for six months.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: So just because one came back and was like, yeah, we don't have that in our budget right now, doesn't mean that another six months is going to be A, the same person, or B, if they're going to have that budget.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I always say, like, it's a continual process to be pitching the brands that you know use and love, the ones that are in your house that you're continually using in your content, those are the brands you start pitching and just creating that relationship with them.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: If you have done like uh like free work in the past for a brand, and let's say that, like, oh shit, now the brand's used to me doing free work for them because it's like they've gifted me products or like they've gifted me this.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: And shit, maybe I wrote like a full blog post and did like fucking seven Instagram reels and TikToks for them for free because maybe I didn't realize that it's like that I could charge.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's like if somebody's in that situation, how do you then pivot to making money?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's also like you don't want to burn this bridge because you've built this relationship, but then again, like maybe my saltiness meter is literally skyrocketing.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you know what, I'd rather fucking burn these products at this point.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, how do you kind of transition from making stuff for free to then being like, you know what?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: I now have a package for this.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think the first thing with that is you have to be honest with them, but you have to also know your numbers.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_04: Know what you saw with the free content that you did for them so that you can go back and say, listen, listen, this was six months ago.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: This is the amount of traffic that we have since seen to your posts.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I'm now ranking for in Google Search Console and the traffic that's coming from Google.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I'm seeing from Pinterest now.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, here's the engagement that I actually got on Instagram.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: And this is what I'm seeing now because I pulled my audience and I've seen how many people want to know more information about your product.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_04: And say, I have grown substantially since that time.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: We're going, especially if for my food blaggers, my DIYers, pretty much anyone, you go into Q4, traffic usually surges.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: And because of that, if they are getting a campaign for Q4, I say that to them.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, we're going into Q4.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: This traffic is going to double, double.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I am now charging for this.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'd love to put together a package proposal and put together something that you are comfortable with.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_04: And if they come back and say, Yeah, we don't have the budget for that, you can decide if you want to take anything out to still work with them.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: But I think most people that you are going to work with, whether they've been there seven years or they've been there six months, they're people.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: And if you do create a relationship with them and they see the value that you hold, they'll want to continue to work with you.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_04: And if they can't, it's probably because they just don't have the budget.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_04: But again, that doesn't mean that they won't six months from now.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: So one of the biggest mistakes I often see bloggers make is that they will say, and they'll go shoot off their mouths in a Facebook group, and someone will say, Oh, so-and-so wanted me to work for a bag of granola.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I told them, you can't pay your mortgage with a bag through with a bag of granola, can you?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: How do you expect me to do that?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: They all talk.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: If you piss off one PR agent, I'm telling you right now, you're going to piss off so many other ones.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: They are going to know your name, you were going to be a pariah.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_04: Always just treat people with kindness the way you would be expected to be treated.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: That way they will continue to rec recommend you to other brands and other PR agents.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: That was honestly, like I said, I was never a huge blogger.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, a PR agent enjoyed working with me because I would provide all the data and tell them what was going on with the campaigns.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I was always making sure that I did everything on time.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: They passed my name around to different PR agencies.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how it became so consistent for me with such a small audience.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: And that's ideally what you're looking to do.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: And how did you get connected with your first PR agency?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was me reaching out.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: I reached out to a couple of different ones that were products that I had in my house that I absolutely loved and pitched them and just created that relationship.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it didn't always happen overnight.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it normally happened after a bunch of different following up emails because their inbox just as busy as ours is.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: So it was that follow-up process of being able to get it back in front of them and see when they had money for the campaign.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: And then from there, once that campaign was done with them, they were like, Hey, I've got this other brand that is actually part of our umbrella that we cover.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: Can you do something for this?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's just, and they continue to pay it forward.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: And in the same token, one of the things that I always did is I would always tell them, Hey, do you have are you looking for other bloggers for this?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because I know this one, this one, and this one, that would be a perfect fit for them.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: Here's your their emails.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: It was always that paying it forward to continue to all what is that?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_04: All boats rise when we're all together or something along those lines.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: I misquoted that terribly, but a rising tide lifts all boats or something like that.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I know I missed the first part.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's really powerful, and just a reminder of like connections and relationships are extremely beneficial, not just right now, but also in the future.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think we've said it on the podcast before of just like you never know what's coming your way.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like you will never regret building a relationship.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I think that that it's it's super, super important.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my next question is kind of like, okay, so we have a lot of online business owners that listen to this podcast or entrepreneurs, and like let's say that they're not food bloggers or they're not bloggers in general.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, and I'll I'll just use me as an example.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's like if I'm looking to start working with brands and I can't just walk around my house and maybe pick up the toothpaste that I use.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, let me reach out to this brand because it's like I don't fucking talk about toothpaste, I don't talk about home health stuff, like I don't I don't talk about like home decor and nothing like that around my house.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, how would a business owner or entrepreneur be able to find maybe the right brands to work with in order to maybe just start dipping toes and sponsorships?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: What software and tools are you using to do your business?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: If you are a small freelance business owner, are you using Adobe?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_04: Are you using Canva?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: And that's obviously a huge one.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_04: But what tools and software are you already using?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, are you using Co-Schedule?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_04: Being able to potentially talk about, especially if it's a good fit for your audience, right?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_04: If you're doing website design, are there is there a specific specific templates that you use for shop in order to have templates for the website design?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: Just thinking about the tools and services that you are already using that would authentically fit with your audience is honestly how I do it.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_04: And thinking one of the things that has happened over the last probably year and a half, year and a half, is that if you have a podcast, it is valuable.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that when you Google podcasts, how can I charge?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: How can I start doing our ads?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_04: They'll say you have to have 10,000 downloads in 30 days to be able to make any money, and that's just to do ads.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, what if you put together a package and just interviewed them on your podcast and that was a sponsored podcast episode?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: Now that is value to them.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_04: You can charge for that, then the blog post maybe that goes along with it for keywords and SEO, and then also the email that you're going to send to your list and the social media that goes along with it.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_04: So anytime you were looking at what can I utilize?
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, where are you already posting content and what are the tools that you are using that would be a good fit for your audience?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like my brain is spinning in a million directions.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like, I gotta take this down.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is genius.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I would make sure.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, go ahead.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_04: No, I was gonna say too, like as a podcaster, you probably get pitches for people to come onto your podcast.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: Do they have products or services?
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: Probably.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: That may be why they want to come on, potentially saying, Listen, I don't know you from Adam.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let me understand what your products and services are.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_04: Let's start off maybe with a sponsorship.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's going to be a value of them because you can tell them the number of downloads and the email subscribers and how you're going to promote it to them.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_04: Looking at it that way.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: You have really like blown my mind about this.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now I feel like I'm gonna have like a bunch of ideas, which I appreciate.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to share like a limiting belief that I have with y'all, and you can talk me through it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I have this story in my head that it's too late to start a blog.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I should have done it 10 years ago when you did, and like it's like kind of pointless to start one now.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: Talk me through that.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's hilarious because I just wrote an email to my list that comes out next week about it's too late and it blogging is dead and it's totally saturated, which is the absolute totally false.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um with keywords and the way that Google now works and the way that you can get it up in search, it's they've kind of leveled it off.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, yes, there are people that obviously have domain authority over you, but if you understand keyword research and how to find the right keywords that you can rank for, blogging is the perfect opportunity.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_04: And like I said in the beginning, it's long tail effects, it always lives on, it continues to grow.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Mariah knows that better than anyone else, being someone that does SEO.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, uh, I'm gonna record everything that Jenny said, and she's now going to make commercials for me because, like, yeah, that's exactly it.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: But it's I have done SEO for over a hundred clients, and I have never not seen a gap in the market.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: Never.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: There is always potential to show up on Google, it just depends on like what arena we want to show up in.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Shay, let me know when you have a fucking extra hour, and we can literally just spend some time, like me going into my rabbit hole of keyword research, and it's like you're gonna walk away being like, holy fuck, I literally can write this and I can write this and I can write this.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when we look at the keywords, I always tell people, like, let's shift the perspective with the keywords.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's say you want to show up for, because I know that you like focusing on sales, and I'm not saying that you're about to create a sales blog, but maybe you will.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like, how maybe we want to show up for like how to sell more products?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: And like at first glance, you'd be like, how to sell more products?
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: Fuck.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like a bro marketing blog post.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: That shit sounds awful.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, miss me with that.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, here's the thing: Google is actually changing the algorithm in the future.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they're doing it now, but to actually be able to highlight different perspectives on page one because they're showing or they're seeing that it's all people on page one, a lot of it are just regurgitated shit of the same shit.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_03: And like it's not helpful, right?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: So essentially, the the one example I don't think that I've ever given it on this podcast.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was on somebody else's podcast.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: Jenny, it might have been on yours.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's on yours.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it was mine.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love this example.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: So essentially, when I was in the sauce about a year ago trying to run away from SEO, which is always fucking hilarious to me now.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was like, oh, I'm gonna look up like intuitive business coach.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I Googled intuitive business coach.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, there's a huge gap in the market, the keyword research.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I could create a fucking killer blog post about this.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I was like, let me see who my competition is.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm assuming it's going to be people being like intuitive business coach.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: How to hire an intuitive business coach.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: Hire me as your intuitive business coach.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: The second result was why you shouldn't hire an intuitive business coach.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_03: I read that post and honestly, like she targeted the keyword, but then completely shift perspectives within the content.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: And her content wasn't bashing intuitive business coaches.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: Her content was essentially, hey, a lot of intuitive business coaches fly by the seat of their pants.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of them don't really have any background in the marketing or business field, and they're just kind of going through it willy-nilly and trying to sage you and balance your chakras.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: So make sure that you are working with somebody that understands both realms, that understands essentially, she didn't use this phrase, but understands the strategy and the energetics.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, fucking mic drop.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: What a beautiful example of like just because we want to target the keyword how to get more sales, we can still target that keyword, but within the content itself, shift the perspective.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like if you're thinking about creating a blog, but it's like, oh shit, I all of these keywords are too competitive.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: Fuck, let's hit them and let's shift perspectives.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like, one, we don't need to keep regurgitating what everybody else keeps saying.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: So hopefully that's insightful, Shay.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: How are you feeling?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is insightful, and I love that example.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's good to know.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I really resonate with like I'll Google one topic and then there's like 10 blog posts, and they all are identical.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it seems like a lot of people have just been like rinsing and repeating um to our point earlier.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm happy to hear that Google is now prioritizing um a different way to look at things, just different perspectives.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that seems like it would open up a lot of possibilities for sure.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and especially like, and I mean, Jenny, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like especially if you start creating a blog or like creating content.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's say we have other business owners that are like, oh shit, maybe I want to tinker around with maybe just creating one blog post a month, one blog post a quarter, just to get like dip your toes in.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm assuming that when you start a blog, With possibly having sponsorships in mind, I'm assuming that that can kind of like build the momentum quicker, right?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because the audience that you're then kind of teaching and talking about the products and services that could be a good fit for that, it's all in line.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I think too a piece that I was thinking is Shay, is that look where you've already created content.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: Some of us probably created content on Instagram, and maybe you have a carousel that is like a perfect thing that talked about sales.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: Take that content, do the keyword research, and then repurpose it and create a blog post out of it.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_04: That is the smartest thing that you can possibly do.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think we always think that for every platform, we need to reinvent the wheel.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: When in reality, just start with the place that you're most consistent or have been and turn it into what you're looking to create new content for that platform-wise.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's always such great advice.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I need to hear it every single time.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, I'm thinking, you know, we've shot whole podcast episodes that, you know, you could pull a lot of blog posts out, and just not having to start with like a blank white page feels like such a relief.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I definitely appreciate that.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, I have one more question for you.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: We we've been talking a lot of things like what to do right.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have sponsorships in mind, I have my position, all that stuff.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us what are the like the common mistakes that you see people, uh bloggers making, maybe your coaching clients or anybody you work with.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I think it's those cracks in their foundation that I normally start off with, but as far as they're not doing keyword research, they don't understand SEO even in the slightest.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they are not growing an email list.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_04: And when I say growing an email list, that doesn't mean like you put up that little thing that says subscribe to be part of my newsletter.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking about like give them something of value in exchange for their email.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you grow that list, continue to engage with them.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: Don't let them sit there for six months and never email them.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_04: You need to be consistently getting in front of them, driving traffic back to whatever it is that you are consistently promoting content on.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I think for me, for my blogging client clients, the reason that their businesses often have not taken off, especially in the beginning, is they're not treating it like a business.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_04: They're running all around, they're doing all the things, but they don't have any boundaries in place for themselves or their family.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that for me was a turning point.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: After that conference, I came home and was like, okay, this is now a business.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to be making money.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not just blogging.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_04: We're not going to make jokes about this anymore.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm doing this seriously.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, like, I'm going to be done teaching.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_04: This is going to replace it.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I want to do from now on.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: And once you have that mindset shift of my business, my business is a business.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_04: What you will see is more people will treat it like a business.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: They will stop making the jokes or whatever it is that you deal with with your own families or the people in your lives.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it all of a sudden everything starts working like a business because you start looking at the numbers.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_04: You start looking at looking at the strategies.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times people then get to the point where they start investing.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_04: They'll look at little ways of things that need to fix.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_04: Wait a second, all she keeps talking about is keywords and SEO.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_04: I clearly need to hire someone that's going to be able to teach me how to do this.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm to the point where I have all this traffic coming in.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_04: Now I need to make some sales.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_04: I need to hire someone that's going to be able to help me do that with the copy, the funnel, like all the things.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_04: So really being able to see that trajectory of where you were trying to go.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the big mistake that people will make is that their business is not aligned with their mission.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_04: You have to know what it is you want to get out of this.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_04: Because entrepreneurship, whether you are a blogger, whether you're a service freelancer, whatever it is, it is a roller coaster ride.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_04: It there are highs and there's some really bad lows.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_04: And if you do not have it tied to your goals and what you are trying to do with your business, you're likely going to a burn out or be just figure I'm done with this.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Why am I wasting all my time away from my family, whatever else it might be?
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_04: So understanding what you are trying to do with your business and the mission behind it is really key.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I hear a lot of our audience members like yelling, like, okay, but where do I start with keyword research?
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like you guys have both said many times, like, where are you doing your keyword research?
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I know that Mariah has a workshop she just taught on keyword research, but rapid fire, both of you guys, what tools or softwares, how would I get started with that?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Jenny, go first.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're so mean.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_04: You're the expert in I know.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's not mean.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it depends upon your level of understanding, like for what when it comes to keywords and what you're looking for.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you don't understand what keywords actually means and you start to try to use a tool, it's only going to confuse you.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_04: But so I would say like start off with something with that's maybe less expensive if you're at that point.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_04: I started off like Uber Suggest, where it was a free tool, Chrome extension, gave me some sort of information that I could go off of.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Then from there, I went to like looked at keywords everywhere.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_04: I now use key search.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_04: I have used SCM SEMrush.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: I know some people I always call spell it out for some reason.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I know other people that are higher level, really looking to dive into it, use rank IQ.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I basically I second everything that you said.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like if you don't want to invest in anything, Uber suggests is a really, I don't want to say great because it's not great, but it's a decent you you get what you pay for with that.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And like Uber suggests they just don't have the database to have like their competition and their search volume accurate.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_03: So take those numbers with a grain of salt.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but Uber suggests I think you get like three searches a day.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I would get started with that one.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um keywords everywhere is really great.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: To be honest, I only use the free version, I don't use the paid version of it.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty sure that the paid version, those numbers that you see, it's pulling from Google keyword planner.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_03: So those numbers, I'm pretty sure, are based off of Google Ads.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_03: So just keep that in mind.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Google Ads and SEO, it's completely different.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's going to be different data in there.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_03: I have heard like some um other people that are really into this stuff, like other SEO people, are obsessed with Hrefs.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I've also heard that Hrefs is also really good at like creating a backlink strategy, and that's their main focus.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_03: So their keyword research isn't as robust.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I actually I spell it out too.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I call it SEM Rush.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Some people call it SAMRush, same thing.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's the tool that I know and love.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_03: If you guys are interested in learning more, just like Shay said, I do have the replay of an SEO keyword research workshop that I did.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'll put that in the show notes below.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely, I mean, like everything that Jenny said, it really truly is so important, especially if you want to start making money from this stuff.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like get the traffic from Google.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Google is willing to give you free traffic if you just spend some time and do the research with it.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_04: And here's my best example of what keywords means.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_04: When I have created a post that was called Love Bug Fruit Cops, it went viral on Pinterest.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_04: It was adorable, it was super cute, but no one is searching for Love Bug Fruit Cops.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_04: When I changed it to um non-candy Valentine's Day ideas, all of a sudden the Google traffic started to show up.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's what are people searching for that is going to you're going to answer with that content.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's such an excellent example.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, Jenny, now that you've got all of our brains like buzzing with ideas about sponsorships and uh, you know, ways we can monetize, how can we follow along with you?
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_02: How can we learn from you and like dive a little bit deeper?
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, of course.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I um host a live workshop where you actually get on via Zoom with me so that you can ask all of your questions on that crazy teacher that just wants to see all of your beautiful faces as we go through a whole little presentation.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um I host it every other month.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's called uh Three Secrets Brands Are Not Telling You About Sponsorships.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um you can go to jennymelrose.com forward slash three secrets, just all one word, and um sign up for that at any point.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then also you can find my podcast.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Influencer Entrepreneurs.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_04: I've had my podcast now for six years, which I just feel like a dinosaur saying that about a podcast.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you can find that at jennymelrose.com forward slash podcast.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then if you have a question from this episode, go to Instagram, just DM me.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_04: I am the only one in my DMs, and my Instagram is Jenny underscore Melrose.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for all of that.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_03: We will definitely put all of the links to all of that juicy stuff, including her Instagram in the show notes.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_03: But before we let you go, Jenny, we have a question that we ask every single human on the podcast.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, what has been sparking your curiosity lately?
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_03: AI.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Ryan, you know this because we talked about this on my podcast a little bit.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very curious how we can use it, utilize it to be able to speed up what we're able to do, but still not lose our voice and our content and the value that we provide for our audiences.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I've been experimenting to find different ways that I can utilize it and then teach my students how we can start to incorporate it as a basis for research and not the end all be all for writing content.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that that's yeah, that's so important.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, yeah.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_03: I feel I feel like I need to spend even more time with it too.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've dabbled a little bit with it.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, I'm excited to come in and kind of teach that workshop to your people because, like, I have a tool that I'm gonna recommend that is it's just making things like so much easier.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we can spill the beans on that on a different podcast episode.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I think we're gonna close this episode down.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with somebody that you think would love it.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Screenshot it, share it on social media, tag us, let us know if something popped out to you.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like Jenny said, if you have any questions about anything, all of our DMs are open.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_03: We love connecting with you guys.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And as always, yeah.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Diddy.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_02: As always, thank you so much for listening and for your support.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't yet, subscribe to the podcast and leave us the review so we can all continue to grow together.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, remember that you have the power to create whatever the hell you want.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you in the next episode.