Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Lisa Espinosa - Trauma, the Divine Mother & Fearjoy

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Lisa Espinosa - Trauma, the Divine Mother & Fearjoy · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it felt like this something that came from beyond me.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like if I don't hear that, if I don't follow that, I will be crushed.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like my heart will break so deeply.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's been always for me a very tangible feeling.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's giving me the courage to continue to say yes to that in the face of exactly what you said.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was at the height of my career.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was experiencing so much success.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a sacred work.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: My students loved me.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting invited to college.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally everything, everything, everything was like, this is ridiculous.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you're not leaving this for this unknown.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Lisa.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Kay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I am so happy to be here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is such a joy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think we're going to have a really nice conversation.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you and I met through, I want to say, in the context of the Divine Feminine Rising Movement.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that this has been such an important part and remains such an important part of your journey.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it also at the time was probably the most important part of my journey.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, but we never really had a chance to interact as we were talking about before we hit record.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to this getting to know how your your life was influenced by the divine feminine and how that led to it led to your mission.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: We also have in common that uh we grew up, you grew up in the city of Chicago, I'm guessing, and I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And even though those are two completely different worlds, they're pretty close to where they are now because I'm currently in Michigan and you're in Mexico.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about your childhood, your siblings, your parents, your family structure, and how that really influenced you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I was born in Chicago.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was born and raised there.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: My parents are from Mexico.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: They immigrated to Chicago.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, they were my dad was an electrician, my mom was a beautician, and they I have a younger brother.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And really, they were, I guess, what I would call lapsed Catholics.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they would definitely say they were Catholic, but they didn't go to Mass, which I'm actually looking back very grateful for because my first, you know, up until I was like 19, I didn't have a lot of religious dogma.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you still absorb it, of course, for sure.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But my dad really, he had this deep love for Jesus.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I was just writing this actually yesterday, this story.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was really loved watching old classic Bible movies.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he would watch like the Ten Commandments and Ben Her and Q Buddies and all these other ones.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I would watch, and this was like, in a lot of ways, of course, it was limited, but it was my first interaction with like, oh, I think my first love from a spiritual perspective was Jesus, which was so, but it was it was devoid of all the religious dogma because we didn't go to my parents, didn't go to mass, and I just was like, oh my gosh, here's this loving being that is so courageous and is led by a mission.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, when I look back, of course, my understanding was limited, but it was it was also very true.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was also without all the rules, I was just like, Jesus loves me and he's still here with me.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and I really believed that, like at such a like cellular level, to the point that when I was, so I guess this is actually when I started to get some dogma, you know.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: My parents were, they did want me to go to school to get my first communion.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would just go to church by myself.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would drag my little brother.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: My parents would be tired from work, and on Sundays I would take him to Mass because I was just like, this is where I'm gonna talk to Jesus, and this is where I'm gonna, you know.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But what's interesting is even then, I think I was very shocked once I went to church the first time at how many rules there were.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like we would stand up and we would sit down, and there was, I was so kind of like this pure vessel at that point.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't even understood that, if you know anything about Catholicism, that in order to take communion, I had to go to confession.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like all this stuff about original sin, like I hadn't absorbed any of that.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just kind of there expecting it to be this really loving, beautiful space, and it was not that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was very like, okay, I don't understand, but you know, clearly Jesus must still be here.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it it was like, I remember my mom one time telling me, Oh, a neighbor said that you were taking communion, but they didn't see you go to confession.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was so, I just felt I always had this like little good girl part of me that wants to be a great student.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there was this part of me that was like, I didn't know, you know, I didn't know that I had broken some rule.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think maybe that was really the beginning of starting to to feel like, oh, there's rules I didn't understand.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and that led to, I mean, we can talk further about that in Felicia, but that led to then really going into this kind of dogma of religion, but me still trying to hold, still feeling like, no, there's something, I know there's something pure.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that of course eventually led me to Mother Mary and all these divine feminine masters, but Jesus really was the doorway for me without all the baggage that gets put on him, of course.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's incredible.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, what a beautiful gift that your father gave to you, really.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So was his in terms of your parents, was the departure from the church intentional, or did they just kind of fall away?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was just like I I do think there's a lot of, at least in the Mexican culture, I mean it's heavily Catholic, but I there are a lot, even within that, a lot of people who consider themselves Catholic but just don't necessarily go to Mass on Sunday, and maybe they'll go on Christmas or things like that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: They also, you know, had immigrated to Chicago, so I think my dad was still feeling very, you know, he's the youngest of like nine.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I think they both thought they were still gonna move back to Mexico and still were integrating into a new culture.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I think it wasn't any sort of statement.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was just kind of like, you know, I don't know that my dad grew up going to mass, but interestingly, he was always drawn to Jesus specifically.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like any, you know, movie that had him in it, like he would watch and watch repeatedly.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was like our mass, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he would put Ben Her, and then there I was.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my favorite part was always Jesus coming on, but then of course the dread of the crucifixion and all of that stuff, um, which led to some other things in my life as well.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think they just they didn't feel the need to go to mass, but also didn't stop me from going to Mass.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I look back and I'm like, that must have been really weird, like a 10-year-old with her little brother just walking to church by themselves and my parents staying at home.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought it was odd till I told my husband about it years later.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, What?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I've never heard of this.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I didn't think it, I didn't realize it was even interesting.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, oh, of course I wanted to go to church.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd go.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have another friend who has a similar story in that she started going to church by herself at the age of like seven.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And her parents would just drop her off because they they weren't church-going people.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so interesting.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the cultural influence when your culture is so tied to religion, like there are both gifts, and what's the opposite of a gift?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're challenging.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, for for many of us, like I count myself in that the the dogma is is what um drove drove me away.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think it's it's so easy to find fault with dogma, but so difficult to find fault with Jesus.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, nobody's out there dishing on Jesus, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So how did your path um well, how did that early religious experience, you know, your your kind of interest, how did that carry you through like your teen years and your early 20s?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I still had a very some understanding that came from beyond from beyond that I could communicate with spirit, you know, at that point the word was God, because that's just what I knew.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And but I also was experiencing a lot of trauma in my life.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I had experienced, you know, like sexual abuse at an early age.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so my teenage years, it was just like, uh, just kind of like navigating some just really challenging things that's that, you know, I didn't have any help with that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't had therapy or anything like that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just doing the best I could.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was attending like a high school that was very far from my house.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been like accepted at this privileged high school, and so none of my friends from grammar school had gone with me.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that definitely made it harder.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: My parents, being new to the United States, you know, they didn't understand American high schools or dating or proms or anything like that.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And but but I also was having all these, like, I just didn't know how to set boundaries with really if I'm very they didn't know how to set boundaries with guys, and I didn't, because of the trauma I had experienced in childhood.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, now I understand it very well, but at the time it was all very overwhelming.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I also had a horrible teacher there who, you know, he was sexually harassing me.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand that then either.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Started my freshman year, and so I was just going through a lot.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a lot was happening in my life.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was like trauma after trauma after trauma.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and my parents, like I said, they didn't understand.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And my relationship with my mother, I mean, she I've learned since then she had a lot, a lot of trauma growing up, but she was kind of a cold person, you know, she wasn't someone that I could really definitely talk to about anything that was happening.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so during those times, when I look back, I think at night I would talk to God and be like, okay, just have this these conversations, but I didn't have enough guidance to to think about anything deeper than that at that point.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like I was going through all these traumatic experiences, and then it kind of came to a head my junior year of high school, where I finally, because I had this teacher, he kept enrolling me in his classes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I had just, and finally a boyfriend, this guy I was dating, was like, because he knew he was like, You've gotta tell the principal.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember this guy walked me to the principal's office and left me in there, and I was like, I need to talk to somebody, and then I just blur started just saying all of these things, and of course, they were stunned.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I became a teacher, so now I look back and I get so angry at their response, but they were stunned.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: They brought more people in and they're like, We've got to call your mother.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: My mom responded horribly, and even then, the the part that now, like, just I'm like shocked.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they removed me from this teacher's classroom, but they not, none of them offered to support me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody was like, Can we get you you're gonna start, you know, go see a counselor, talk to somebody.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it was very much from the perspective of like, okay, hush, we're taking you out of so there was just like so much trauma.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it was like trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was trauma, then speaking my truth, and then the trauma of my mom's response, who basically was blaming me.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like all of this, and then that got worse when I left high school.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I really connected with a very dogmatic branch of the Catholic Church, which was Opus Day.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like that became a whole other um, I believe definitely part of my spiritual journey.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like I experienced then it within that church, just the the all the rules, right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're a sinner if you don't do this, you're a sinner.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it was just like I entered this.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: To me, it felt like it didn't at the in the moment, but now looking back, it felt like I'd entered a cult.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got out of that, I think that's the moment where I did, even though I still believe Jesus was a loving figure, it had gotten so distorted through all the trauma I had experienced once I connected to that group that I was like, I must explore other spiritual.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I I couldn't, I couldn't use the word God, I couldn't even hold a rosary, anything that even scented of Catholicism.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, and that's that's kind of what began this other spiritual journey for me.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I I think it was like an interesting response that you had, uh, it seems common that someone would either in the experience of trauma at the hands of a religious organization, that you would either head in the opposite direction or head deeply into it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm wondering if you're you're heading deeply into it, whether playing in the background was this belief that if you had just been a better Catholic, that your these things would have been avoided because obviously the rules are there to protect you.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So was that like a protection?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think at that point when I when that came into my life, I was feeling a lot of shame, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a lot, because again, I hadn't had therapy or hadn't, and even though a wise part of me was inside saying, like, that wasn't my fault, I didn't cause that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was of course a lot of things I had internalized of it was my fault, something was wrong with me.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I think when this came into my life through an individual, I think it was like, oh, maybe this will help heal me, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like this will like going into the maybe I will heal all this stuff inside of me.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and yes, for sure, had like I said, just a lot of shame of particularly with my I always say it was like the trauma of what I experienced, and then the trauma of having my mother respond the way she did.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: That almost felt worse, which sounds like no crazy, but it was like that was so traumatic.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think internalizing her, and I have a lot of compassion for my mother now because I understand what she had gone through, and now it I understand why she responded that way.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, of course, I didn't.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so I do think, yeah, that maybe there was some comfort, but even in the depths of that experience, I know there was something in my mind that I was always like, but I but I believe God loves everyone.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that sounds naive, but I like there was definitely still inside of me this voice that was like, but this doesn't make sense, this part doesn't make sense to me.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I was just so weighed down by the trauma and just everything.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that voice wasn't loud enough yet, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was like I was kind of like sucked in into that, yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that is what trauma does, it it makes it difficult, it makes it shifts your focus to just surviving and getting through the day without you know complete collapse.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's just not a lot of room in there for the spirit nature, yeah, for critical thinking.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and also you have you're young, you know, like you're young on top of it.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So of course, you know, these adults surely they must know what they're talking about.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, for sure.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that that era of um, it's hard to even things have changed so much that it's hard to even describe how covered up all of this trauma was.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Partly to you know, quote unquote protect you, yeah, that it would be worse for you if you know it came out in the open and everybody knew, like adding to the shame.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And just like and how that trauma has its way with you.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that even as much as 40 years ago, it just wasn't really known in very many circles.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not, and especially in like working class communities, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like because people didn't have often resources to go to therapy.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Probably still so that probably hasn't changed that much.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's more awareness, but not necessarily more resources, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes, yes, definitely.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go to college?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So then I amazingly like was like because again, I was a kind of like a in a trauma state when I graduated high school, but then I was like, okay, I've gonna somehow got myself to junior college, and then um eventually went to the University of Illinois, you know, that that route.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: But but somewhere along that area, I got pregnant, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I became a mom at 19.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I often say I feel like I've lived like five lifetimes in this one lifetime, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when I look back, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was again now looking back, it's not shocking that that happened after all of the experiences that I had.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, maybe some people are prepared at 19 to have a child, but I definitely was not.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was not.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share a little bit about that moment?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah of finding out what was that like for you?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for so long I had been waiting.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, when I turn 18, I'm going to either go away to college or join the Peace Corps.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I wanted to do.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm gonna join because even then it, you know, the like my mission, I really feel is I help those helpers, you know, I help those women who are like on this mission that they know they're here to, however it is, whatever that looks like for them, be of service, help the world, be an example of what's possible, bring in new paradigms, all of that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had so it's amazing to me that even with all the trauma and everything that was happening, I was still like, I'm gonna join the Peace Corps and I'm gonna travel the world and I'm gonna like teach children.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what I thought I was gonna do.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when that happened at 19, it was, I I mean, I just it was so terrifying.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just like it was literally, and and of course again, I look back and I'm like, wow, I was in such a trauma state because I hadn't like you, it's like I wasn't thinking critically.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was on the one hand, I had these dreams, but then I also didn't have the support.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I also didn't know how to set boundaries with God, you know, like my relationship with my body was so challenging, and I didn't know how to advocate for myself and my body and my boundaries.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it all makes sense now why that happened.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But and so when I got pregnant, oh, it was terrifying, it was horrifying.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, of course, I love my daughter, I always want to say that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's and she just had a baby, but it was like it was so frightening, and it was this despair of like, oh my gosh, I thought my freedom was about to begin, and now I'm gonna become a mother.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just remember yeah, a moment just standing in my parents' living room and just feeling like the world was gonna crush me.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I just but but I I literally remember the moment that I was like, I'm either gonna be crushed by this or I have to just take one step after another.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's and I and I chose that at the time, and then I've kept choosing that, but I remember that moment of just feeling like I'm about to get crushed, like I don't know if I can get up from this.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard, it's hard to even imagine at that age, like what that would be, what would that would feel like?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so but somehow it sounds like you managed to complete college while raising a baby.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Did you how did you Yeah?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, oh my gosh, it's such a because I had my baby and uh I got married, and that was a challenging experience.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um that was my first marriage.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that were your parents in favor of that?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did they think that was a good idea?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: My dad, it's so interesting.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: He had a very typical patriarchal marriage.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Skin dad response, which was like, Okay, you have to get married, you know.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Once I told him, and my mom, on the other hand, was like, you know, you don't have to get married.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was hardly talking to me.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so when she was like, you know, you don't have to get married, you can live here, but it was all very harsh, very, and I was just like, I can't picture this.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like this, that sounded awful.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got married, and then, you know, I had five children, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was like I had my daughter, and then I think I had five children in seven years, but throughout it all, I was like, I have to graduate college.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just had that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it took me eight years to graduate, you know, with my bachelor's in education.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a very different college experience.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's been a theme in my life, just feeling very like my experience is very different than everybody else's experience.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like high school felt so like I was in the dark cloud because nobody knew what was happening.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then college, you know, nobody, I mean, may there were probably other women, young girls that were pregnant, but nobody, you know, and I was so that was very, very challenging, but I did that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot right around when I graduated college was when I really realized, okay, my marriage is not like that's when then the next big initiation was like getting a divorce, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that, and becoming a teacher in the Chicago public schools, which was amazing.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that was so it, so there's been like my the theme of my life has been just a lot of the first half of my life was like climbing one mountain after the other, or just like keep going, keep going, keep going.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it's I I just want to kind of uh hone in on something because I feel like it's important, yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that is that despite all of these challenges, there was like this little pearl in you that kept pressing forward, like almost like it was untouchable.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was like this mission, you know, this mission, this passion, and that that you were you were here for a purpose.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it would be so easy to ignore that, to push it aside and to to give it no power or credence whatsoever.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like in, you know, I I want to say the words because if people are going through challenge, you know, the the thing that you despite the fact that you're trying to survive, like if you look in into your heart, into your soul, there's something there that is that is pulling you forward, pulling forward.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did that pearl guide you through this most difficult period?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And beyond, because like there's a beyond, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, yes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I love what you said that it was untouchable because that's because that's how it felt.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all are born with that little voice, that little pearl, that untouchable place inside of us.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always been a very, very sensitive person, and in some ways that's been incredibly challenging, especially with all the trauma I experienced, because it meant I felt everything so, so, so deeply.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the gift of that was I felt that voice so, so even if it felt like tiny at times, I felt it very deeply.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel as a collective of humans that one of the things we're all being initiated in is following that little voice, is like really listening to it, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so many times, I don't feel like it needs to be this way, but so many times is the as you said in your, you know, the breakdowns, the challenges that can like make the little voice actually louder.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have found yeah, and I think sometimes it's not necessarily a voice, like yeah, right, not words.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a magnet driving you towards something, and you're in complete faith because everywhere around you is a complete show.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're just being pulled, like, yeah, it's just like it's drawing you forward, yes, yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you are a single mother of five children at what age?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a 27 at that point when my youngest was born.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that was yes, so I'm a mother of five at 27.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Getting a divorce.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, and and I mean, wow, like Lisa.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to tell you what I was doing at the age of 27.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't very impressive, I can tell you that.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, how did you survive that?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Who was helping you?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: At 25, I started to see a therapist.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first time that was, you know.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really started changing everything, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was the first time that well, it was the first time I actually talked to somebody about the trauma I experienced.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the first I was starting to get that support.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that was instrumental.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I I ended up working with that therapist for seven years.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: She, I mean, it was like she helped me so much.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that that started to clear the trauma layers so that I could look at my life more critically and be like, oh, okay, I want this to change and that to change.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So she was definitely an ally for sure.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I, you know, I had started teaching and I met some, you know, I made some friends, colleagues, so there was some support there as well.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my parents, they were not in support of my divorce, you know.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember when I told my parents, my dad was like, both of them are horror, horrified and mortified.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad was like, no one in our family has ever gotten a divorce.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, oh my gosh, it was, it was, yeah, so that was not helpful.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that um, so in a lot of ways, I did feel very alone.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I did feel very alone for sure.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also a lot, it's it was amazing to me how many people who weren't even like relatives or any, like how much judgment there was around it, you know, like there was so much, it was so interesting to me.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, wow, like how many people felt they had a right to have an opinion about it or judge me about it.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've also always looked very young for my age.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So 27 is young, but I also looked probably, I mean, I taught seventh graders the number of times that I took my students on field trips and they were like, where's the teacher?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be like, I'm the teacher.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: My students would laugh all the time.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think maybe that gave people somehow emboldened people to be very uh opinionated.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it really felt, I think that's another theme in my life has been that just kind of like having to really uh do things, follow that that pull, not only with the uncertainty and the craziness, but when a lot of people in my life are saying you are either crazy or a sinner or you're you know doing something horrible for your kids, or like when those voices are so loud to still follow that pull.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was, you know, it was building a muscle of faith and trust in myself.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I can look back now and be like, okay, I understand why, but in the mo at the time, it didn't feel courageous at the time.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like, oh my gosh, just you know, doubted myself, but still followed that pull, followed that pearl, followed that light.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, at 27, you still have a bit of naivety to you as well.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not really aware of what is stacked up against you.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're not.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you really are not.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some ways that has served me to not realize how challenging something was gonna be.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew it was gonna be challenging, but not knowing how how challenging.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I look back and I'm like, you know what?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: In a lot of ways, that actually helped me because I did it, you know.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, I'm I'm I'm being pulled and I'm I'm gonna do it.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I didn't realize how many people would be very judgmental and harsh.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's crushing.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: That is crushing to to hear and to to experience, obviously.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about um how the divine feminine came into your life.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I really started with, you know, as actually when I was going through the divorce, and it was very, very, very challenging.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly enough, it was with Our Lady of Guadalupe.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I had like a little in the church, they had a little picture of her, and I had it in my and I hadn't connected much with her before then.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And consciously, now I look back and I feel like she was always there.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like that image, and I'd gone to her shrine in Mexico City, I guess like a year before.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I had connected with her then.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I I felt this, I suddenly felt this very much connection with her.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And because my relationship with mother, my mother was so challenging, I think I gravitated to the divine feminine from this place of like my divine mother, like just feeling like, okay, this is, and I just it it wasn't very sophisticated or anything, but it was just like I would look at that picture, I would had her in my pocket, and I would just talk to her and feel like, okay, she's helping me.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if there's divine father, there's gotta be the divine mother aspect.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, and this divine mother must be everything I I want would want, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Unconditionally loving, protective, my cheerleader, like everything that I imagined or that I had longed for as a daughter.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, you know, my inner child parts have always been very, very present with me.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's something that for a long time I felt was a curse or I judged it, but I also feel like that served me so well because I had a very not childish, but very childlike pure ability to connect in that way and just be like, okay, like you're guiding me.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how it began.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then because I I feel very drawn to spirit and the divine, I started reading like books about the bodhisattvas and connecting with like Kwanyin and Green Tara.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I started reading about Hinduism and connecting with Kalima and Lakshmi.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I just delved myself into all the paths because I knew it couldn't be just one.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And but I was so drawn to the feminine because I think I really needed a mother, like I really, or sisters, you know, just that female presence.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, that's making me a little emotional.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just that.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I didn't have.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was, and I feel like they were calling me.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they were like, We're here, we're here, we're here, like we know there's a bunch of people around you that aren't able to do this.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: But and so that's that's how it began.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like a very like personal, intimate need and calling to connect that way.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you think about how this the absence of this divine mother presence in all of humanity's lives, like how impactful that's been, because you know, most of us have a relationship with father slash patriarchy.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's very patriarchal.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's very it's it's dominating and it's authoritative, and sometimes that's a good guide, but uh there's like this enormous missing piece that all of us have experienced.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, your emotion kind of like really touches me in terms of for you, obviously, but for all of us, you know, every single human has been well not, I guess Hinduism had you know very important uh feminine figures, sacred figures, but not like a mother, like not like you know.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about when you changed from your teaching career into more of like what your what the vision that you initially had for yourself, how that became real.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I started teaching seventh graders, so like 12, 13 year olds, and and that was I really want to name that was a very important part of my healing journey, spiritual journey, everything because my teenage years were so challenging that teaching teenager, like that's what I knew I wanted to do.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And even though so many teachers were like, uh, seventh grade, I don't know, but I was like, that was my calling for sure at the time.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was incredibly challenging, especially the first three years.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But but I felt like a lot of my inner teenagers were healed through that experience, right?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Through being a loving, safe presence for my students, through most of my students were Mexican-American or recent immigrants, so we had that connection as well.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I hadn't up to that point had any good teachers, and I had some traumatic teachers.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was such a calling to create that like space for my students.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I went all in.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was like so devoted to that mission of teaching and love teachers and loved my students, and I worked at the same school and and taught kids and then their siblings and their siblings, and I would do home visits.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like such an important part of my mission.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was uh in 2008.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd given a lot to the that work.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd written chapters in education.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just was like so immersed in it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: But there was this point where suddenly I was like, I just remember thinking, like, why am I not happier?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why, you know, like my I was in a in a lot of ways, teaching was easier than it had ever been.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a, you know, I had eight, nine, eight years of experience by that point.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I had my master's in education by that point.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd done my national board certification.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd won this, like, you know, golden apple teacher of distinction award.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I'm saying all those things is just to say, like, from outside perspective, I'm like at the height of success with this.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting invited to, I was starting to have student teachers in my classroom.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I went to like DePaul University and talked to prospective teachers.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was just like all these doors opening, particularly with that award that kind of had opened a lot for me.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And but I was like, why am I not happier?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is going on?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I knew I was tired.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I had done like a black and like a photography project for my students for years and had gotten a lot of attention for that, but I was I was exhausted, so that was part of it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember I was in the classroom, I taught language arts and science.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was teaching a language arts class, we were reading a novel, and I had like a little out-of-body experience, which must have taken like a split second because you can't have an out-of-body experience as a teacher, especially teaching seventh graders.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know how when you have those experiences, it's like timeless.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's it could be a second, but you're experiencing.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was teaching, I remember I was walking around the classroom, and then I just like saw myself teaching the class, like talking about this book with my students.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I and in this phrase, I did hear a voice.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was my voice, but I did hear my voice saying, Your time here is done.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I heard.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I felt, and I write about this in my first book, I felt both things simultaneously, like this incredible relief at understanding, oh, that's why I've been feeling like I'm spinning my wheels or wondering why I'm not so happy.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm my time here is done.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then I felt immediately also incredible panic.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does that mean?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like that made no sense, also, right?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: In a lot of ways.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so it was that simultaneous both at the same time.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of my previous coaches called it like fear joy.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like total like fear joy.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, and um, that was 2008.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, I had a a therapist, a different therapist, because my first therapist died, which was like another very, very crushing thing.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like she, like that's so unfair.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it was uh still something I I mean, she was so important to me.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and I I at that point, with everything I had experienced up to that point, I wasn't gonna ignore that voice that said, your time here is done.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, you know, I remember I spoke to my therapist about it, and I was like, I'm gonna follow that voice.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I talked to my principal, and I was like, this is gonna be my last year, and nobody believed it.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, to do, and everybody was like, to do what?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I knew at that point I had I had like energy healing training.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: My second therapist that I worked with was trained in the in IFS internal family systems, parts work, and that had I felt like that had completely taken my healing to a whole other level.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so passionate about that, and I was like, I want to do parts work with people, and and I want to bring in energy healing and I want to bring in spirituality, and but that's very vague.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: All of that is very vague.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So when people ask you for what and you're like, well, I would just kind of fumble around.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's especially vague to your checkbook, especially vague for your checkbook.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, at this point, I didn't mention when, but I'll just say I did meet Greg, who now, you know, Greg and I have been together for over 25 years, my second husband.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and so at this point, we were already together at that point.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember talking to him about it.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he was also, I think at this point he was a professor, but he had been a teacher, had also won the Golden Apple Award for teaching.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and he was very supportive.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: We were both kind of like, yeah, sure.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's one of the times where like the naive part I think served me because I knew nothing about growing a business.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just like, I want to help people.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if I want to help people, obviously people will come and this will be amazing, and this is what I want to do.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I felt a lot of guilt in leaving teaching, to be clear.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was the biggest challenge, really, was the guilt because I so believe teaching is a sacred mission, and I loved my students and I loved that community.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in the south side of Chicago, and you know, I would have students being like, Oh, my my daughter, my daughter, my sister's gonna be in your class next year, Mrs.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Espinoza.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be like, Oh my God.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, that was really hard.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: My own children attended the school where I taught, and I had had two of my kids in my classroom, not my homeworm, but in my science class, and it was a beautiful experience, and my kids were sad that I wasn't gonna be in the classroom.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, it was very hard from that perspective.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: That I felt guilty, I felt sad, and the guilt was like, I think, a really big piece because especially because I couldn't say, because I'm gonna go be a lawyer and I'm gonna go do that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it was this very like vague explanation.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I did it, I did it.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I think my principal till the end thought she's not gonna leave.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's not, you know, because he would be like, Oh, we're getting you a new science lab next year, and we're gonna get like all these things that he would say.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I that's one thing about me when I make up my mind to leave.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I leave.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't waver on that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very clear to me.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was again that string that pulled.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: So 2000, the fall of 2009 was the first school year that in my minivan I drove to the school, dropped off my kids, didn't walk out of the car with them.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were sad, and I was sobbing the way home.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, oh my god.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not only because I wasn't going in with them, but I wasn't welcoming a new classroom.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was just so much sadness, and just also like, did I just make the biggest mistake in my life?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was that?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow people found me and started, not a lot of people, but women started to come.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had a healing space in my home.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would do Reiki, I would do parts work.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And every woman that came was like a former nurse, a therapist, which I just loved therapy.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I felt like therapists had saved my life.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just like, I can't believe therapists are coming to me for help.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was, it was all women who were had such a big heart, were so mission-focused, but also overextended themselves, sacrificed their well-being.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like me.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, I was just a few steps ahead of them, but it was like they were, I was drawing me to me.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's was the origins of now, of course.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's being years later, and I'm so much more clear on my niche and all of that stuff.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: But but really, the universe spirit, the divine mother, I really feel, was sending me these women to me.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is who you're here to help.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is who you're here to help them tune into their that little light inside of them that is there, and they've never that that they can still hear, so they can create the impact they're here to create.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: In a way that is a blessing for them as well.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would say primarily.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think when we're blessed, it actually overflows.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then the impact we have on others is so much greater.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't know all of that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it I didn't have a master business plan.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, this is how it started to happen.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, five years in, I hired my first business coach.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mother Mary.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like she sent her to me.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then she was really like, you need to, what's your branding?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you serve?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't know, like marketing.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Then I then I got really, that was in 2014.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then I really was like, okay, I have a business.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not just here, like I had really shied away from like, I'm not a businesswoman, I'm just here to help.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then it was really like, oh, I am I'm an entrepreneur.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who knew?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a businesswoman.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also spiritual.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I to need to embrace that instead of like thinking of it as a necessary evil, but to really like, okay, wait.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then that began this whole other evolution of my life to really get clear on what was already clear in some ways, but like really cemented, like, okay, this is actually who I'm helping, how I'm helping them.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, that's been refined and refined and refined.
• 45:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's something really remarkable that you've done in that moment of here, you've been teaching school and you're serving a very deserving population that needs you.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: They need you.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they like me.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, they like me.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're the parents are like, oh my gosh, Mrs.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Espinoza, we want our kid to be in your class.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my gosh, yes.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you're successful, yes, and you're serving.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yet there's this moment where you're being asked to choose between service to other and service to self.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you just chose yourself in that moment.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that most people, especially from a traumatic background, would not do that.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering like, what is the cost of not listening to that voice?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that I remember Greg gave me a card, and I think it's Anais Nin, her quote.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's very well known.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know the what is it like?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the day came when the fear of remaining tight in a bud was more than the fear that it took to blossom, something like that.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember she gave me that card, and it so spoke to me that it was even though like the fear I had of coming to the end of my life, maybe it's not fear, but fear is not exactly the right word.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Grief, maybe.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And looking back and thinking, oh my gosh, I didn't follow that calling.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my first book is called Answering Your Inner Calling.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just felt like I would be heartbroken.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like the grief of that heartbreak was so strong that I've wondered if there, I often think, because I do believe we have different lifetimes, and I wonder, like, I bet in a lot of lifetimes I did do that.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: I bet I did come to the end of my life and was like, I didn't follow that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so grief stricken that as challenging as so many of these things have been, that possibility, that that like ignoring, because in that moment it didn't feel like I was choosing my, although you're right, it was my it felt like I was choosing my higher self.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like, you know, my egoic self, my personality self that was like, I'm bored with this, now I'm gonna go.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it felt like this something that came from beyond me.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like if I don't hear that, if I don't follow that, I will be crushed.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like my heart will break so deeply.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's been always for me a very tangible feeling.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's giving me the courage to continue to say yes to that in the face of exactly what you said.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was at the height of my career, I was experiencing so much success.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a sacred work.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: My students loved me.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting invited to college.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally everything, everything, everything was like, this is ridiculous.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you're not leaving this for this unknown.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I also know that that was also what was teaching me.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I teach my client, not that all my clients have that same story by any means, but it was honing my ability to tune into that light that eventually like um be able to to mentor my clients through their own, through their own version of that, whatever it was gonna look like.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um this now your adventure has taken you inexplicably to read the United States and um go live in Mexico.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit about how that transpired, unless there's things there's no in there that we need to know about.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the main step was my youngest, Miguel Ankin, you know, because I have girl, girl, girl, boy, boy, graduated college.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like all of my kids were out of the net, you know, they were all graduated college.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: He was, you know, my baby who graduated college.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they all, even though we were all in Chicago, through because of work, they'd all moved.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: My my oldest is still in Chicago, but my other daughter, Alejandra, because of work, moved to Colorado.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: My other daughter, because of work, moved to Washington, DC.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was like their degrees that they got in, you know, my son, other son moved to Texas, and my youngest, who had graduated, had gotten a job, a very good job in Seattle.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he moved to Seattle.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was gonna move to Seattle.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And Greg retired.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we had traveled to Mexico a lot, both loved Mexico.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he had always been like, oh, wouldn't it be awesome if we one day could move to Mexico?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And although I thought that was awesome, I was like, there's no way I'm moving that far from my kids.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is not happening.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just like that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't, I can't be like a flight away from my children.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: That just would terrify me.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then they all moved, they were all a flight away.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: They were except for Lisa, who was in Chicago.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one day my daughter Lisa, who again just had her baby, was there with her boyfriend Sam, who's not her husband.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they were talking, and I was talking about like we're thinking about relocated, and she was like, Oh, cool, where?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then Greg jokingly said, Well, I keep saying Mexico, but your mom keeps saying no.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter was like, Mom, why?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, uh, because I don't want to be far from you guys.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, You need to do whatever, you need to do whatever you want to do, we'll fly to you.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I and then we just kept talking.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like a big conversation, it was kind of like, but that night it was, it was suddenly like a spell was broken, and so like it allowed me to connect with my desire.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, could we go to Mexico?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to move to Mexico.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Greg had applied at some universities, and I was like, Yeah, I think that could be maybe where we're being called.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I kid you not, I knew I had certain things.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want it to be somewhere super hot in Mexico, I didn't want it to be humid.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I was raised in Chicago, so I wanted it to have a small town feel, but also be a beautiful big city.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't live in a little village, even though part of me fantasizes about that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that couldn't.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I had all these like, okay, no earthquakes, no hurricanes, all of these things.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I read an article about the city, and I was like, that sounds like cool.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I started seeing videos, and Greg did too, but he was still teaching at the time.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was coaching, but my flex, my schedule was flexible.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Greg, if we're considering this, I have to go.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have to go.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I took a flight, this was February 2023, came here by myself.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'll know.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm there, I will know if that's the place.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will know.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when I walked to the historic center, and it was like this perfect moment.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was like cathedral, sunset, sound, everything.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is it.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is where, and I called Greg.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I think this is where, and he had never stepped onto the city before we moved here.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was February.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: We were we had moved here in July.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: We sold our house, our car.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a whirlwind, like craziness.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what, and it was again, because so many things could have gone wrong, like the house couldn't have sold, who knows?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: But everything worked out, and we were here in July of 2023, and we loved it.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so much like my ancestors, my enlightened ancestors, like, and I had not connected as much with the indigenous part of my lineage, you know, that spirituality.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt like that was really calling me, and it just felt like amazing and beautiful, and I mean, hard, of course, relocating to a new country is hard, especially a city where you know no one.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was really challenging.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but it was absolutely the right thing.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think you know, and then after a year here, that's when Greg got diagnosed with cancer, and it was like, what the heck?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was a whole like that was like not expected.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of like my next, our next, you know, experience and and a lot of feelings of like it's unfair.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is supposed to be our time now after everything we've dealt with, and after everything I've dealt with, and like this is I was processing all of that and just being with all of that and letting myself have the feelings, but also then coming to a place of of acceptance and faith and trust with that.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, you know, it's it's been like a huge thing.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't say we're on the other side, Greg's in remission, so that's amazing.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and now, so now we're feeling like, oh, we can buy flowers in our garden.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we're we're kind of like experiencing this like second year of relocation, even though it's been longer because 18 months of those was in-depth cancer, like figuring all that stuff out.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's a it's a big life that you've signed up for.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you've, I mean, you've handled it's just like shockingly, amazingly, you know.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what's next for you?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just have such a strong calling of helping the helpers, right?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I talk a lot about that of moving from the martyr helper identity because I think that was something that I really had to work through to go into this like sovereign helper place, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that even through the 18 months of the cancer journey, I was still so focused on like not only serving my existing clients, but you know, doing my podcast, teaching my master classes.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was really, I didn't realize it till about two months ago that I was like, oh, I was really developing this next iteration of my process of like, what is it?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: How is it that we step into this next chapter of service and impact from a place of alignment, from a place of sovereignty, from a place of honoring ourselves as the vessel, right?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: The vessel through which our gifts and our purpose flow.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and so two months ago, I was like, oh my gosh, like I this is my second book, and I almost wrote it all already, right?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been creating this curriculum without realizing I was creating it.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, what's next is adventures with Greg and enjoying that, and that's something that we're just very present with, and and of course, not knowing exactly what's gonna happen with the cancer journey.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and also like, and Mike, I'm gonna go on Friday to Chicago to meet my brand new granddaughter, Marisol.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm super excited about that.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And absolutely, you know, growing my mission of like serving these amazing women who to me are like superheroes that don't realize they're superheroes, but I really understand, like, oh my gosh, everything I experience and have experienced and continue to experience has honed like my compassion, right?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: My ability to be in really uh challenging experiences and keep and and serve my clients really well and not be freaked out by anything they bring, right?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I can understand like what was being honed in me through that experience.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really where I'm at.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is I I don't know whether it's the gift of aging or the gift of consciousness that uh those things, those gifts that you used to see in retrospect are now occurring in real time.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can actually enjoy the gift of it while you're going through the challenge of it.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know exactly how to attribute that, but it's real, you know.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, a real thing.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes like I talk a lot about our soul's medicine, it's like our medicine, and you're right, that time is so shortened because so many other times it's like, oh, 10 years later, I look back and now, but I do feel like everything is so like that opportunity exists for us to be with it.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: I do think it's like an increased capacity to hold our soul's light often.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this, oh, I can be in the grief of it and the sadness of it, and also in the oh my gosh, this is absolutely part of my divine curriculum of it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, now I can show up with so much more compassion for the world, for my clients.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it all is happening simultaneously, like, which is in a lot of ways really beautiful.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's the gift of life, you know, it's so rich and complex, and yes, there's no way to tease it apart and be whole with it.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have to experience it as as whole wholeness to be whole.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've loved hearing all of that.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've been so curious about the details for a while.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Kay.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: How has this phrase, what matters most, changed for you from the time that you were in your early 20s to now?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think even though I was always mission-driven, I can see in my 20s, even in my 30s, that I had a lot of codependency with the mission.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of attachment of like my worthiness.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will, if if I help more people, I will be more worthy.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I help more people, then I am valuable.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: If I help more, I mean, some of that was unconscious, but it became more and more conscious.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I am so grateful that in this, at this point in my life, and and it's obviously it's a process and it's a practice that it feels very much like even as I write my second book, I don't feel the pressure I did with my first one.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, like if I write the second book and then people really know that what I have to offer is so important.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking, like, oh, this is gonna really help people, and that makes me happy.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel joyful about that.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: It feels, I feel more freedom with my mission.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel like a heaviness on my back.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like, and I'm I'm I'm still teasing that, but I can feel it more and more like, oh, like this can be like wings or like this.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what matters most is then my joy and my alignment.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't have said that before.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it would have been like, what matters most to me is that I help a lot of people, and and although that's totally matters to me now, I see the entryway different than I did before.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: That is um such an important part uh or an important point, is that when you are in your divine alignment, there is a wind underneath you that is inexplicable.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, if you're out, if you're in the mission for the wrong reason or the mission's not quite right, you know, it feels like a downdraft.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on infinity?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: For me, infinity, I just think of it as love, like endless love, like this love we can't understand.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like this no beginning, no end, nothing else.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: We can't understand it logically.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's but it's that's when I connect with that word, that's what I think of like love, like a love we can't understand.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: When I think when I first thought about the word infinity, the word that came to mind to me was exhaustion.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my god, really?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like forever?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now I I I feel so differently about it.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um now it feels like I can't get anything wrong because I have infinite time to figure it out.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, it's like, oh, you know, I can relax a little.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a deadline, there's not a a program that I have to figure out.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I can be more at ease with myself and my path, knowing that I'll I have the opportunity to um figure it out, you know.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I also feel like we because we've been inside this polarity paradigm for so long that we can't imagine what it would be like to feel more of the good things, like more joy, more love, more adventure, more fulfillment.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like we just don't have that frame of reference within us.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I I keep telling myself until I really feel it, like, oh no, you know, this could actually be a good thing.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, like an embrace rather than like, oh my gosh.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like that sounds exhausting.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's so like I'm on a treadmill for an infinite amount of exactly.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, what is your favorite day of the week and why?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you asked that because it would have been so different in Chicago, but like I found myself answering, like, probably the weekend, but it was like, no, I like the weekday, like my days feel so beautiful here.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: So my, but I would say Sunday, I'll just name that because I could make an argument for all of them.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, because Greg and I go out to breakfast on Sundays, and we don't have a car here, which is one of the greatest blessings ever.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get to walk through the beautiful streets and go somewhere and eat a delicious breakfast with fresh squeezed juice and delicious, you know, fruits that are in season.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and and yeah, we didn't get in Chicago.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we would do that, but we'd have to drive and be in traffic and all these things.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like such a different experience.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I don't go to Catholic Mass, I love hearing the cathedral bells.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just love the energy of it.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll go with that.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would have to say I've always been a Sunday fan as well.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: Especially, I mean, most people feel bad about Sunday afternoon, but I just feel like so, I feel like it's such a sacred time.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't know, it's just very special, very special.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: My final question for you is what do you feel most hopeful about?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel most hopeful about what came to my mind right away or my heart was women the women that I serve, like these beautiful, heart-led helpers who have often shied away from the spotlight or been afraid of their own power because they associate power with awfulness, like I did, right?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because we see people in power abuse it.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel so much hope when I think of all of those women truly embodying their beautiful power and like the amazing things they will birth in the world.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I feel that just fills me up with so much like joy.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: The Divine Feminine Rising is one of to me, is the most hopeful thing that has happened in eons.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: In eons, absolutely, yes.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: We should all be hopeful about that.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, did you bring a question from?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I have it here.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: I did not forget.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait, am I in a good well, because I read your, you know, how you described the podcast, and I was like, I really want to know this.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wrote down what is a breakdown you're currently alchemizing, transforming, whatever word you want to into a breakthrough.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a good question, since you know, I might still be in the throes of it.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought that might be true, but you could share that, whatever, yeah, whatever your goal to share.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and you're the perfect person to share this with.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I love what you said about it and your your children's sort of take on it.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have a I I feel like I have I'm trying to resolve codependency with my responsibilities as a mother, even though my children are grown.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and because my I also all of my children have flown very far from the coop.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um sometimes I judge myself for that, if you can believe it, that that um you know, if I had been a certain way, they would want to stay close to home and we'd be having Sunday dinner and I understand that relationship and um so the unraveling of that.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I have many times, I've made many, many, many decisions from that codependent point of view, and I'm sure there's been a cost to that to my to my heart and to my soul and to my mission.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm there's still elements of that that I am untangling, threads that are forcing or you know, trying to influence me in decisions that I make um that that are of my own making.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what they're asking of me, it's what I'm asking, forcing myself into roles that have in some ways expired, you know.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the alchemy of that?
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's when we can free ourselves from whatever programming we are currently operating under, we get to experience a new level of freedom that is just so light and beautiful and accelerated.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I don't know that I've gotten there yet.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward, you know, to experiencing that.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, like you, I'm about to become a first-time grandparent.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how that's gonna play into it.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe that's a subject for another conversation, but yeah.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that answers your question.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I guess TBD.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think that's so beautiful.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do think it's not as neat, like we have a breakdown, then we alchemize it, then there's a breakthrough.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's similar to what you were saying before.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all of it together, right?
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: All it's all happening at once.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think your awareness of it is so beautiful.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what you said about the roles expiring, right?
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the roles expiring.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're not and but you named it so beautifully.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, there's so much freedom, there will be so much.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you use the word joy, but the way you said it, I felt that coming through, and maybe it's not fully anchored yet, but it's there, you wouldn't be able to even access the feeling state of it.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think it was really beautiful the way you shared that.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us who are moms can absolutely relate to that for sure.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa, I have enjoyed this conversation.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much so much.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming on and sharing your beautiful, beautiful story with us.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Kay, for being such a beautiful listener and the questions you asked, and just for the space.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.