Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TD: Suspect in Idaho Student Murders Flies Home to Face Lady Justice

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TD: Suspect in Idaho Student Murders Flies Home to Face Lady Justice · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We have touched down. That's right,
0:20
Speaker 1: the suspect and the murders of four Idaho University students
0:25
Speaker 1: has touched down in the jurisdiction where this case we'll
0:30
Speaker 1: go to a jury trial. Now what I'm Nancy Grace,
0:35
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:37
Speaker 1: here at Fox Station and series M one eleven. First
0:41
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at k
0:43
Speaker 1: r E M two. Brian Coburner touching down to the
0:46
Speaker 1: Pullman Moscow Regional Airport just after six tonight on board
0:50
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania State Police plane which traveled across the country
0:53
Speaker 1: a day after Coburner waived extradition. The twenty eight year
0:57
Speaker 1: old murder suspect, wearing a black coat over his red
0:59
Speaker 1: jump suit, spent less than a minute on the tarmac,
1:02
Speaker 1: moving from the single engine plane to a sheriff's pickup truck.
1:05
Speaker 1: The windows inside were covered up. That truck was escorted
1:09
Speaker 1: from the airport through downtown Moscow. Coburger arrived at the
1:13
Speaker 1: jail within a matter of minutes. We saw a garage
1:15
Speaker 1: door open and immediately closed. Once the pickup was inside,
1:19
Speaker 1: A large crowd of students and Moscow residents gathered to watch.
1:23
Speaker 1: Less than an hour after landing on the police Coburger
1:26
Speaker 1: was booked into the Layta County Jail, charged with four
1:29
Speaker 1: counts of murder and one count of burglary. He's currently
1:32
Speaker 1: being held without bond. It has all happened so incredibly quickly.
1:39
Speaker 1: Forty seven days went by from the time of the
1:42
Speaker 1: murders of those four beautiful young Idaho University students until
1:49
Speaker 1: the time of an arrest. And we're learning a lot
1:51
Speaker 1: about that arrest and the intense tracking conducted by not
1:56
Speaker 1: only local police but the FBI, as well as a
2:00
Speaker 1: track the suspect Coburger across the country twenty five one
2:04
Speaker 1: hundred miles in the Elantra that had been sought after
2:09
Speaker 1: by law enforcement all across this country. But what we
2:12
Speaker 1: know right now is that Coburger was flown on a
2:16
Speaker 1: fourteen seater pilatus across the country, a private plane that
2:21
Speaker 1: apparently it belonged to Pennsylvania State Police. It touched down
2:25
Speaker 1: once in Champagne, Illinois, at a fixed operation flight service.
2:33
Speaker 1: At that time, everyone at the flight provider, as a
2:38
Speaker 1: private provider, was evacuated from the building. Obviously, for the
2:45
Speaker 1: security and the safety of everyone else, and just in
2:49
Speaker 1: case Cooburger tried to make an escape. We know that
2:55
Speaker 1: there was a brief refueling and then he made his
2:58
Speaker 1: way onward to Pullman where he will be tried. Was
3:05
Speaker 1: it safe, Yes, it was. The entire flight, he was
3:09
Speaker 1: surrounded by armed guards. He was never taken out of
3:14
Speaker 1: shackles the entire trip, and now he's where he needs
3:19
Speaker 1: to be. We have just gotten the first mug shot
3:22
Speaker 1: originating from that location. Take a listen now to our
3:25
Speaker 1: friends at King five. Now. Turboprop pilatus that is registered
3:30
Speaker 1: to the Pennsylvania State Police just touched down at Moscow
3:33
Speaker 1: Pullman Regional Airport after quite a cross country journey to
3:37
Speaker 1: safely but at the same time efficiently get the twenty
3:41
Speaker 1: eight year old murder suspect on the ground now in Washington,
3:45
Speaker 1: soon to be in Idaho to face a judge and
3:48
Speaker 1: formally be indicted on those murder charges in a single
3:52
Speaker 1: burglar recharge. What you're seeing now is the plane that
3:55
Speaker 1: is tack seed off of the active runway as law
3:58
Speaker 1: enforce cerat work to get this suspect off of the
4:01
Speaker 1: plane into a vehicle where he will be transported to
4:05
Speaker 1: a county jail where he will be housed for the
4:07
Speaker 1: night before seeing a judge the following day. Law enforcement
4:11
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, the FBI, Washington State, and Iyaho being very
4:18
Speaker 1: cautious in this process to not reveal too many details.
4:22
Speaker 1: The suspect, Brian Coburger, wore some type of protective vest
4:26
Speaker 1: and was under armed escort. We know that the pit
4:29
Speaker 1: stop in Champagne, Illinois, involved a fixed base operator at
4:35
Speaker 1: Willard Airport. It was flight Star, one of many private
4:41
Speaker 1: plane providers. Many people argue that this was just so
4:47
Speaker 1: Coburger could use the bathroom. That's not true. The plane
4:52
Speaker 1: probably had enough fuel, but just as a safety precaution,
4:55
Speaker 1: they also fueled up there. Interesting that the entire fix
5:00
Speaker 1: space operator was evacuated. People had to go outside while
5:04
Speaker 1: Coburger was brought inside. Long story short, he's bat in
5:09
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction where he will be tried, and as soon
5:12
Speaker 1: as he appears in court, we will have all the
5:14
Speaker 1: answers from that probable cause. FA David take to listen
5:18
Speaker 1: to Janelle Burrell at CBS three. Man accused of killing
5:22
Speaker 1: for University of Idaho students back in Idaho this morning
5:26
Speaker 1: to appear in court on murder charges early this morning,
5:29
Speaker 1: investigators releasing this mugshot of twenty eight year old Brian Coburger.
5:34
Speaker 1: Late last night, Idaho law enforcement vehicles escorted him to
5:37
Speaker 1: the county jail there in Moscow. It was last Friday
5:41
Speaker 1: that police arrested Coburger in the Poconos after a nationwide manhunt. Meanwhile,
5:46
Speaker 1: authorities in Indiana they have released new video of the
5:49
Speaker 1: first traffic stop involving Coburger and his father. On December fifteenth,
5:55
Speaker 1: they drove from Washington to Pennsylvania on a trip that
5:58
Speaker 1: was reportedly preplanned. Straight out to one an all star panel,
6:02
Speaker 1: joining us to help us analyze what we are receiving
6:07
Speaker 1: information fast and furious. Cheryl will call him joining me.
6:09
Speaker 1: Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute, currently on
6:13
Speaker 1: a police force. You can find her at Coalcase Crimes
6:16
Speaker 1: dot org. Cheryl, thank you. Cheryl also hosts of a
6:19
Speaker 1: brand new hit podcast called Zone seven. Cheryl, everybody was
6:26
Speaker 1: raising h E double L when this guy co Burger
6:33
Speaker 1: and his father on a prearranged flight. Dad flies across
6:38
Speaker 1: the country twenty five hundred miles picks up son and
6:40
Speaker 1: the white L launcher in question and they began the
6:44
Speaker 1: journey across country back to Pennsylvania in the family home
6:48
Speaker 1: in the Poconos. Everybody had a fit when it came
6:52
Speaker 1: out that they were stopped for traffic violations and not once,
6:56
Speaker 1: but twice within the span of about ten minute. And
7:01
Speaker 1: you and I were like, h wow, isn't that quite
7:04
Speaker 1: the coenkie dink coincidence? They're stopped two times in Hancock
7:09
Speaker 1: County and Indiana and they're not given a ticket. Whence
7:15
Speaker 1: the last time you got pulled over in the interstate
7:17
Speaker 1: and you didn't get a ticket. Well, I've never been
7:19
Speaker 1: pulled over on the air state. But nobody. Nobody gets
7:23
Speaker 1: away if you're speeding or tailgating, as these two were
7:26
Speaker 1: accused of doing, you get a ticket and a stern warning.
7:30
Speaker 1: That didn't happen. And there's a reason why. Cheryl McCollum,
7:33
Speaker 1: that's right. And it was two different agencies. It was
7:37
Speaker 1: a Shares department in the Indiana State Police. It's what
7:41
Speaker 1: they call a whisper stop. It's when the Feds tell
7:44
Speaker 1: local law enforcement who's in their area, and hey, can
7:47
Speaker 1: you find a legitimate reason to stop them? Usually a
7:51
Speaker 1: traffic violation and peep in the car. Ask them a
7:55
Speaker 1: few questions. Do you see any injuries to his hands
7:58
Speaker 1: or arm? Does he give you a bog reason why
8:00
Speaker 1: he's traveling in the break and he's going? Did he
8:03
Speaker 1: admit to where he worked? All of those things are
8:06
Speaker 1: going to be pertinent. Can I just give you a
8:08
Speaker 1: little advice since you didn't ask when you're conducting your
8:13
Speaker 1: hit podcast's own seven, because you please not bury the lead.
8:18
Speaker 1: The FBI asked local police, local sheriffs to pull having
8:23
Speaker 1: his dad over and this is on December fifteen, so
8:27
Speaker 1: they could hopefully get video of the suspect's hands and arm.
8:33
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, that's exactly what they were doing. Need be
8:37
Speaker 1: this agency, the Moscow Police Department, the Indiana State Police,
8:43
Speaker 1: the Idaho State Police, the FBI. They have played this
8:47
Speaker 1: thing so beautifully. It is just an orchestra of experts
8:52
Speaker 1: working and it is purely so. While everyone was throwing
8:56
Speaker 1: a big fit about them not arresting them for a
9:01
Speaker 1: quadruple of murder, this was all part of the plan,
9:06
Speaker 1: not only the FBI, but the local police in the
9:10
Speaker 1: jurisdiction of the murder in Idaho to gather evidence. They
9:15
Speaker 1: didn't need them to get a ticket for tailgating. They needed,
9:19
Speaker 1: they needed video or photos of Coburgers hands at arm,
9:27
Speaker 1: which they got. I might add in speaking of the stops,
9:32
Speaker 1: we have that sound and footage. Take listen to our
9:35
Speaker 1: cut two three seven, one of those doctor then when
9:42
Speaker 1: you're driving by me there so don't as it was
10:17
Speaker 1: a county guy was yeah, okay, all right, wow. Delle Carson.
10:22
Speaker 1: Delle Carson joining me, high profile attorney out of Jacksonville
10:25
Speaker 1: and former FBI agent, author of Arrest Proof Yourself at
10:29
Speaker 1: delle Carson Law dot com. Dell that guy was really
10:33
Speaker 1: chatty and nice for a pullover on the interstate. He's
10:39
Speaker 1: staying on the side of the interstate with traffic flying
10:42
Speaker 1: by him at ninety five mph, and he's like, hey,
10:46
Speaker 1: you know what, when you're going this speed, you need
10:48
Speaker 1: to stay six or seven. Carl links back and actually
10:51
Speaker 1: having a conversation with the guy. Did they not understand
10:54
Speaker 1: how wrong that picture was? Del Carson The whole time
10:58
Speaker 1: he's getting body video of Coburger's arm and hand. Sure,
11:04
Speaker 1: and when the inclement weather's coming in, they've also put
11:07
Speaker 1: a GPS moniker on the car to make sure they
11:09
Speaker 1: aren't losing. But think about this from a defense perspective.
11:14
Speaker 1: Did he act unusually frightened or scared when he was stopped?
11:18
Speaker 1: Did he flea He didn't do any of those things
11:21
Speaker 1: because he's not guilty. I don't know about you, but
11:25
Speaker 1: did you see the look on his face when the
11:28
Speaker 1: cops pulled him over? Because I thought he looked shocked
11:31
Speaker 1: and afraid. I mean, Chris mcdonnah joining me, director col
11:34
Speaker 1: Case Foundation, former homicide detective. I found him on the
11:38
Speaker 1: interview room on YouTube. Chris, did you see the stricken
11:41
Speaker 1: look on Coburger's face? And I'm talking about Brian and
11:46
Speaker 1: Christopher Coburg, not the father, absolutely, I mean Dearren. The
11:50
Speaker 1: headlights right, and well, a lot of technical things moving
11:55
Speaker 1: here on this traffic stop. We also have to consider
11:59
Speaker 1: did they need a photograph of him for a witness
12:03
Speaker 1: to put him in a six pack in a lineup?
12:06
Speaker 1: So that that is another potential reason as well. Now
12:10
Speaker 1: I don't think that's it, and I'll tell you why,
12:12
Speaker 1: because they had his student photo, they had other photos.
12:15
Speaker 1: They had plenty of photos of Coburger at that point.
12:18
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the dad. Okay, yeah, if if they're
12:22
Speaker 1: thinking through, who's this other guy in the car meaning,
12:28
Speaker 1: you know, knowing it probably was family, but there's always
12:31
Speaker 1: that unknown, so they want to get eyes on that gotcha.
12:35
Speaker 1: But I do believe he had quite a striking look
12:37
Speaker 1: on his face when the cops pulled him over. Go ahead,
12:40
Speaker 1: joining me, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
12:44
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of Body
12:46
Speaker 1: Bags of Joe Scott Morgan. Go ahead, jo Scott. Yeah,
12:49
Speaker 1: I gotta say, Nancy, I think there's another peripheral reason
12:52
Speaker 1: they may have stopped him. They wouldn't see if this
12:54
Speaker 1: guy was going to bolt. They wouldn't see if he
12:56
Speaker 1: was gonna, you know, put put his foot down on
12:59
Speaker 1: the pedal and run off. And again, you know, they're
13:03
Speaker 1: trying to measure what they're doing here. This is an unknown.
13:06
Speaker 1: As the other guests have said, this is an unknown.
13:08
Speaker 1: But that's another factor here. They stopped this guy twice,
13:12
Speaker 1: and it's like an experiment where you're adding another stimulus
13:17
Speaker 1: into the into the into the experiment to see what's
13:20
Speaker 1: going to happen because it's unpredictable. Keep in mind, this
13:23
Speaker 1: guy is alleged to have slaughtered four people. I can
13:27
Speaker 1: only imagine kind of how the you know, how these
13:30
Speaker 1: officers guts felt inside if they were aware of what
13:33
Speaker 1: they were dealing with. Yeah, dude, I could also jump
13:35
Speaker 1: in about his facial expression. Sure with me is Dodor
13:38
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall's psycho alicside of Beverly Hills. She is at
13:42
Speaker 1: Dodor Bethany Marshall dot com. You can also see her
13:44
Speaker 1: on Netflix, Bling Empire. Go ahead, Dodtor Bethany. Have you
13:47
Speaker 1: ever noticed that the guiltier, the purp, the wider their
13:50
Speaker 1: eyes become. It's the fake innocent look, you know. She
13:54
Speaker 1: probably when he was pulled over, felt he felt shocked.
13:58
Speaker 1: He probably had that fight or flight res bonds where
14:00
Speaker 1: you want to evacuate your bowels, your your heart rate
14:03
Speaker 1: speed up, you know you've been caught, and then bam,
14:07
Speaker 1: the wide eyes. You know these guys who kill their
14:10
Speaker 1: wives and then they show up at the funeral looking
14:12
Speaker 1: all wide eyed. I think that's the other thing I noticed,
14:16
Speaker 1: not in his other like arrest and being led out
14:19
Speaker 1: by the police, but certainly when he was pulled over,
14:22
Speaker 1: playing the innocent guy. Yeah, I would say that that
14:24
Speaker 1: is exactly the expression he had. Now, Guys, I am
14:27
Speaker 1: pilloried often online which I try not paigning attention to
14:33
Speaker 1: about convicting people before they go to trial. I think
14:38
Speaker 1: it should probably go unsaid that maybe I have to
14:41
Speaker 1: say it again. Of course there's a presumption of innocence.
14:46
Speaker 1: Of course Cuyberger is going to go to trial, and
14:49
Speaker 1: of course at this juncture we don't know all the
14:51
Speaker 1: evidence or what the defense is going to say. Maybe
14:54
Speaker 1: they'll prove the DNA is wrong. If there is DNA,
14:57
Speaker 1: we don't know yet. We are taught looking about the
15:00
Speaker 1: facts as we know them right now. We are not
15:04
Speaker 1: in a court of law. What's more troubling is his
15:08
Speaker 1: alleged comments while he's in custody in Pennsylvania, if those spontaneous.
15:13
Speaker 1: Oh wait now, wait, wait, wait, before you even start talking,
15:16
Speaker 1: del Carson about what a female inmate said. First of all,
15:21
Speaker 1: I didn't know that anybody house men and women together,
15:25
Speaker 1: never heard of that, which at first Blood struck me
15:28
Speaker 1: as being wrong. And then I looked at her record
15:31
Speaker 1: of let's see domestic violence on Christmas Day, I believe
15:35
Speaker 1: it was, and I found what she said that Coburger
15:41
Speaker 1: said to be fantastical, things like I cut them, I'm
15:45
Speaker 1: going to cut you two, Yes, I'm a creeper. Come
15:48
Speaker 1: in my cell and find out. Ah, that didn't jive
15:51
Speaker 1: with what we already know about him, his classmates who
15:54
Speaker 1: were probably more believable and trustworthy, and a fellow inmate
16:02
Speaker 1: saying he was very shy and very quiet and very
16:06
Speaker 1: socially awkward. This female inmate allegacy tried to expose himself.
16:11
Speaker 1: I didn't. I don't pay any attention to any of that.
16:14
Speaker 1: I don't believe it because it's too inconsistent. And the
16:18
Speaker 1: jailhouse warden said that didn't happen. That's not at all
16:22
Speaker 1: the way it was set up, So I don't believe. Okay,
16:25
Speaker 1: you know what you go at, Cheryl, Please, I want
16:28
Speaker 1: to go by facts here that we know. When he
16:31
Speaker 1: was arrested, it was without any incident. When he was
16:34
Speaker 1: stopped not once but twice by law enforcement, it was
16:37
Speaker 1: without any incident. He wouldn't even answer a direct question.
16:40
Speaker 1: If Dad had to answer for him, a simple thing,
16:43
Speaker 1: where you headed? Why didn't you say home for Christmas
16:46
Speaker 1: to Pennsylvania? He didn't. He couldn't even answer something direct.
16:51
Speaker 1: There is no way he made the statements that he
16:54
Speaker 1: did about law enforcement or tried to expose himself didn't happen.
16:58
Speaker 1: All right? Are you done for just right now? Cheryl?
17:01
Speaker 1: I am okay. I know that's not true, by the way,
17:04
Speaker 1: but mozing going forward. That's not the only bodycam sound
17:10
Speaker 1: a video we've got. We have the other stuff, and
17:12
Speaker 1: I mean, why it didn't dawn on them? Please? Anybody
17:16
Speaker 1: jump in, even you Sharyl mc call. Wow, I've been
17:20
Speaker 1: pulled over twice in ten minutes and I didn't get
17:22
Speaker 1: a ticket. This is a miracle. This is quite the coincidence. No,
17:26
Speaker 1: it's not. It's orchestrated by the FBI. Let's take a
17:29
Speaker 1: listen to what we can make out of this bodycam. Listen,
17:32
Speaker 1: how you do it? How y'all do it today? Good? Good?
17:36
Speaker 1: I think look your driver's lines and real quick, who
17:37
Speaker 1: I could city is right up on that man. Man,
17:43
Speaker 1: you right up on the back end of that man.
17:45
Speaker 1: Hold you over? Fortiliating? Is your car? Okay? Cool? Where
17:52
Speaker 1: you headed? Well? Are you coming from r SU? What's WSU? Yeah?
18:12
Speaker 1: That is sure. Okay. I had a hard time period
18:17
Speaker 1: because the traffic. If you're coming from Watchington State University
18:22
Speaker 1: and you're going where oh oh okay, yeah, real little
18:33
Speaker 1: hours hours day? Wow, I gotta tell you something. That cop,
18:42
Speaker 1: as well as the first one one was a sheriff,
18:44
Speaker 1: on was a cop. I think they deserve an Academy
18:47
Speaker 1: Award number one. Whenever I've been pulled over, which sadly
18:51
Speaker 1: has been often, the cop says two words license registration,
18:59
Speaker 1: that's it. No, Hey, how are you doing? Where are
19:02
Speaker 1: you going today? And then the whole line, Hey, what's
19:05
Speaker 1: wsu I've never seen By the time they're pulling you over,
19:10
Speaker 1: they are fed up with you and everybody else on
19:13
Speaker 1: the road because everybody's speeding, causing accidents. They're drunk, they're high.
19:19
Speaker 1: You know. It's just the cops are sick of it
19:20
Speaker 1: because they see it all day long, every day. So
19:24
Speaker 1: they're not there to chat. They're there to get your
19:26
Speaker 1: license and registration and give you a ticket or take
19:28
Speaker 1: you to jail one in the other and have your
19:30
Speaker 1: card and bounded. But it didn't never dawn on these people,
19:34
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, that lightning is striking twice and everybody walks
19:39
Speaker 1: away unscathed. No, Nancy, because criminals are stupid. And there's
19:43
Speaker 1: a really interesting research project that was reading that shows
19:46
Speaker 1: that eighty nine percent of criminals do not feel that
19:50
Speaker 1: they're going to be caught. Actually, that actually may be accurate,
19:55
Speaker 1: because most criminals get away with crime. They do. As
20:00
Speaker 1: much as we see crime stories on TV, most of
20:03
Speaker 1: them actually do get away. There's not enough cops, there's
20:07
Speaker 1: not enough jails, there's not enough halfway houses to deal.
20:11
Speaker 1: You couldn't do it. Yeah, Okay, I think I agree
20:15
Speaker 1: with what you just said. The big news right now
20:19
Speaker 1: is Coburger the prime and as we believe, the only
20:22
Speaker 1: suspect in the murders of four beautiful University of Idaho
20:28
Speaker 1: students is back home in the correct jurisdiction, home from
20:33
Speaker 1: mommy and Daddy's house in Pennsylvania, back to Idaho where
20:37
Speaker 1: he will be tried. There's no way there's going to
20:40
Speaker 1: be a plea entered in this case unless it's for
20:42
Speaker 1: the max. And I remind everybody this is a death
20:45
Speaker 1: penalty state. Guys. Take a listen to our cut four,
20:49
Speaker 1: our friend Craig Copeland and Joyce Teller. The man accused
20:54
Speaker 1: of murdering four University of Idaho students is back in
20:58
Speaker 1: the Northwest tonight, landing just minutes ago at the airport
21:01
Speaker 1: in Pullman. You get a live look outside. There's the
21:04
Speaker 1: jail now in Moscow, Idaho. That's where the suspect, twenty
21:07
Speaker 1: eight year old Brian Coburger, will be taken. It's about
21:10
Speaker 1: seven miles from the airport. So he is being escorted
21:14
Speaker 1: by Pennsylvania State Police after being arrested there on Friday.
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Speaker 1: Matt Cheryl. Did you hear the way that the trooper
21:57
Speaker 1: was extending the conversation, basically keeping the defendant talking, trying
22:04
Speaker 1: to get a good shot of his hand and arm
22:07
Speaker 1: I really admired that. And again, this is not a
22:11
Speaker 1: search that is protected by the Constitution of the Fourth Amendment.
22:15
Speaker 1: Anything that a private citizen could see is open game
22:21
Speaker 1: for law enforcement. Now, if you're going to break into
22:24
Speaker 1: a house or go into somebody's trunk, then you have
22:26
Speaker 1: to have a warrant but if I could look in
22:28
Speaker 1: that car and see his arm as I walked by
22:31
Speaker 1: the cop can too, So I know everybody's been looking
22:34
Speaker 1: at this, Cheryl, Chris, do you notice anything about his
22:39
Speaker 1: hand or arm? I didn't really. I mean I saw
22:41
Speaker 1: one thing that could have been either a scrape or
22:44
Speaker 1: a shadow. I really couldn't make out for sure. But again,
22:48
Speaker 1: there's multiple things going on simultaneously here. There's also the
22:52
Speaker 1: plain view doctrine. So that officer as he approached that car,
22:55
Speaker 1: looked in the back seat, looked at the day. But
22:58
Speaker 1: that's what plain view is. I just talked about. I know,
23:01
Speaker 1: I'm just reiterating he was doing that as well. It
23:04
Speaker 1: wasn't just the hands seniorly, he was doing multiple things.
23:08
Speaker 1: He was also locking him in to certain statements that
23:11
Speaker 1: he's not going to be able to unwing that bill.
23:13
Speaker 1: So again, this thing was done so extraordinarily perfect. You
23:19
Speaker 1: know what was the real irony to Chris mcdunnah joining
23:23
Speaker 1: me from the Cold Case Foundation and the interview room.
23:26
Speaker 1: Is that unsolicited? Brian Coberger says, yeah, what about that
23:32
Speaker 1: shooting back at WSU and there was a swat standoff
23:39
Speaker 1: where an armed person was shocked during a swat standoff.
23:46
Speaker 1: The irony that this guy accused of stabbing dead four
23:52
Speaker 1: beautiful young people unarmed in their sleep, three of them
23:56
Speaker 1: women in their own beds, And he's going, wow, you know,
24:01
Speaker 1: we just got away from this this shooting, doing a
24:04
Speaker 1: swat standoff is what he's talking about. That's pretty ironical,
24:08
Speaker 1: is it, not, Chris mcdonnah, Yeah, I mean classic deflection, right, Nancy.
24:13
Speaker 1: I mean here, you know he's raising an issue of
24:17
Speaker 1: a not you know, national case when you know the
24:21
Speaker 1: officer is questioning about it, going, well, I haven't heard
24:25
Speaker 1: about that. But had he, to your point, made a
24:29
Speaker 1: comment such as, well, you know, we're leaving where those
24:32
Speaker 1: four college students were murdered for the holidays. We're going
24:35
Speaker 1: back to family, YadA yadah. No, he didn't do any
24:39
Speaker 1: of that. In fact, he stayed miles away from that conversation.
24:42
Speaker 1: He sure did, just like he did in classes. According
24:45
Speaker 1: to classmates, Go ahead, doctor Bethany people who were guilty
24:48
Speaker 1: always talked too much. And when he brought up, hey,
24:51
Speaker 1: what about that shooting, he's trying to distance himself from
24:55
Speaker 1: crime he heard about. Oh I know about the shooting.
24:58
Speaker 1: I was not a part at the shooting. I'm not
25:01
Speaker 1: one of them. I'm just the observer. So you know,
25:04
Speaker 1: the wide eyed look, you know, talking too much already
25:08
Speaker 1: at the very beginning, he's distancing himself from crime. But
25:12
Speaker 1: what we know about him is, in fact, when he
25:14
Speaker 1: was a student of criminology, he was obsessed with crime, right.
25:18
Speaker 1: I mean, he put out that survey morning to know
25:21
Speaker 1: what criminals thought before, during, and after the commission of
25:25
Speaker 1: a crime. So he was already getting tips and he
25:28
Speaker 1: was getting excited about the possible execution. He also wanted
25:32
Speaker 1: to know how they picked their victims, possibly because well,
25:36
Speaker 1: I think most likely because he was already engaged in
25:38
Speaker 1: victims selection himself. So he was finding a community of
25:43
Speaker 1: criminals online, just like pedophiles find a community of other
25:47
Speaker 1: pedophiles online. You know, he was congregating, you know, I
25:50
Speaker 1: think it's it may have been Brian Kieberger's dad that
25:53
Speaker 1: brought that up. And again they're the IRNAF. He's sitting
25:57
Speaker 1: next to someone and he's our murder for defenseless people.
26:02
Speaker 1: Little did the dad know, or did the dad know,
26:04
Speaker 1: We don't know yet, but we do know the dad
26:07
Speaker 1: went there. They changed the taggle in the car for
26:10
Speaker 1: whatever reason and drove across the country in a white Luntra.
26:15
Speaker 1: They came from nine miles away from the murder's scene.
26:18
Speaker 1: You'd have to be under a rock in a cave
26:21
Speaker 1: in a country far far away not to know. Costs
26:24
Speaker 1: were looking for a white Launtry just like the one
26:26
Speaker 1: your son is driving. That's food for thought, But for
26:29
Speaker 1: right now, take a listen to our three our friends
26:31
Speaker 1: at ABC thirty. We're getting our first look at the
26:34
Speaker 1: new booking photo of Brian Koeburger. He's the suspect accused
26:38
Speaker 1: of killing for a University of Idaho students in their sleep.
26:41
Speaker 1: Coburger was extradited from Pennsylvania back to idaholy last night
26:44
Speaker 1: to face murder charges. The plane carrying the suspect first
26:47
Speaker 1: arrived at a regional airport in Washington State before officers
26:51
Speaker 1: escorted him off the tarmac and took him back to
26:53
Speaker 1: a jail in Idaho. Coburger's arrival at Idaho means that
26:57
Speaker 1: the court documents filed in his case should soon be
26:59
Speaker 1: un perhaps as early as this morning, which could shed
27:02
Speaker 1: more life on this case. So the first much shot
27:05
Speaker 1: is out. He looks much the same as he does
27:07
Speaker 1: in every other photo. But I'm wanting you to also
27:11
Speaker 1: hear Sebastian Robertson from King five with the big question.
27:16
Speaker 1: So that is the big unknown at this point. What
27:19
Speaker 1: do police have on him? When did they know this,
27:22
Speaker 1: and how did they place him at the scene of
27:24
Speaker 1: the crime. We're expecting those answers within twenty four hours.
27:28
Speaker 1: A police essentially have to put a paper together an
27:32
Speaker 1: argument that says, this is why we believe this is
27:35
Speaker 1: our guy in this case. That's called a probable cause affidavit.
27:39
Speaker 1: That document won't be made public until he faces a
27:42
Speaker 1: judge and he is formally arraigned on those charges. So
27:46
Speaker 1: as soon as that happens, we should get quite a
27:49
Speaker 1: bit of details that will tell us what police knew
27:53
Speaker 1: when they knew it, and that may be why he
27:57
Speaker 1: chose to wave extradition come back to Idaho voluntarily so
28:01
Speaker 1: that he himself and his attorneys, his public defenders can
28:05
Speaker 1: find out what police have on him, What do they
28:09
Speaker 1: have with me? An ulstar panel to make sense of
28:12
Speaker 1: what we know right now aside from what the state
28:16
Speaker 1: has on him. We already know that his parents are
28:20
Speaker 1: shelling out for a crime scene reconstructionist that's not going
28:26
Speaker 1: to be cheap. We also know that the Defense has
28:30
Speaker 1: sent a team of five investigators into the murder house
28:35
Speaker 1: on King Road. What are they doing in there? Straight
28:40
Speaker 1: out to just Goot Morgan joining me, Professor forensics, what
28:44
Speaker 1: would the team of defense investigators to be doing at
28:47
Speaker 1: the crime seing. They're basically reprocessing it in a light
28:51
Speaker 1: most favorable to Braig Hoberger. Yeah, they are. They're trying to,
28:56
Speaker 1: you know, essentially go in and document what remains within
29:01
Speaker 1: that despite that the scene has been altered at this point. Remember,
29:06
Speaker 1: and I've talked about this before, it was I think
29:08
Speaker 1: that this was a major mistake on the part of
29:11
Speaker 1: the authorities to say that they were going to allow
29:14
Speaker 1: people to take quote unquote sentimental items out of that scene.
29:19
Speaker 1: Everything that is in that scene should have remained pristine.
29:24
Speaker 1: You saw it done in Parkland, and you knew who
29:26
Speaker 1: the perpetrator was there. They didn't know at that time.
29:29
Speaker 1: So now the scene has been altered at this point
29:32
Speaker 1: because you cannot you can't undo that. I don't care
29:34
Speaker 1: how many photographs they've taken. Now now you've given the defense,
29:39
Speaker 1: you've given them ammunition at this point in time, and
29:41
Speaker 1: they're going to make Hay with this, I can guarantee
29:43
Speaker 1: you it would not. I don't understand what the rush
29:46
Speaker 1: was at the time. Probably pressure from families would be
29:49
Speaker 1: my guest. Well maybe so, But again, you know, I
29:53
Speaker 1: have the ultimate respect for the families. I am so
29:56
Speaker 1: sorry for their loss and everything they've been through. But
29:59
Speaker 1: a year from now, as is it going through the courts,
30:02
Speaker 1: that could be problematic that items were removed from the
30:06
Speaker 1: murder scene and the defenseman is not able to look
30:09
Speaker 1: at them. You're absolutely right, that's what the defense teams
30:14
Speaker 1: is doing right now. They have put in a team
30:17
Speaker 1: of five investigators to reprocess the murder scene in the
30:22
Speaker 1: entire home at twenty two King. Now, I want you
30:25
Speaker 1: to take a listen to our cut two three nine.
30:28
Speaker 1: This is Mike Mancuso, the first assistant attorney in Pennsylvania. Listen.
30:34
Speaker 1: It is a quirk. Apparently it's not in the norm
30:38
Speaker 1: of the states I'm familiar with that Idaho does not
30:40
Speaker 1: release their probable cause affidavit in support of their arrest
30:45
Speaker 1: warrant until after their defendant is brought a return to
30:49
Speaker 1: that state. But having read those documents and the sealed
30:54
Speaker 1: affidavit's a probable cause. I definitely believe that one of
30:59
Speaker 1: the main reasons the defendant chose to wave extradition and
31:02
Speaker 1: hurry his return back to Idaho was to need to
31:05
Speaker 1: know what was in those documents. So that's a significant
31:09
Speaker 1: development Crime stories with Nancy Grace. What we know is
31:31
Speaker 1: that once Coburger appears in court, they probably cause affidavit
31:36
Speaker 1: will be unsealed and what do you expect del Carson
31:43
Speaker 1: to be and the probab will cause affidavit, Well, it's
31:45
Speaker 1: going to be the investigative report, and it's going to
31:48
Speaker 1: show what they did, when they did it, and where
31:51
Speaker 1: the information came from that links Coburger to the killings.
31:55
Speaker 1: You know, there were defensive wounds, so there's likely DNA
31:59
Speaker 1: under finger nails or things of that nature that would
32:02
Speaker 1: lead directly to that connection. And we will know that
32:06
Speaker 1: as soon as he's are reigned in the defense as
32:09
Speaker 1: all the information that the state has. But certainly the
32:13
Speaker 1: state as an interest as does the defense in delaying
32:17
Speaker 1: those revelations, and it will be interesting to see whether
32:20
Speaker 1: or not they file emotion to keep it sealed as
32:23
Speaker 1: it apparently is now. We also know that Coburger's family
32:27
Speaker 1: was in the courtroom when the extradition hearing was taking place.
32:33
Speaker 1: It was very short, it was to the point, but
32:37
Speaker 1: we know that the family was crying. The mother, the
32:42
Speaker 1: sisters were beside themselves. I'm just curious because I believe
32:48
Speaker 1: that everybody connected to Coburger is going to fall under suspicion.
32:54
Speaker 1: Did they aid him? Did they bet him while he
32:57
Speaker 1: was on the run. I certainly do not believe in
33:01
Speaker 1: any way that his family had anything to do with
33:04
Speaker 1: the killings, But did they help him cover up? It
33:09
Speaker 1: was a great investigative points harbor him. I think that's
33:13
Speaker 1: cristamly done to go ahead. Yeah, Nancy, those are excellent
33:16
Speaker 1: investigative points. And this is going back to that traffic stop.
33:20
Speaker 1: At this point, we all know there are multiple teams
33:24
Speaker 1: chasing every one of those angles right now. They're going
33:27
Speaker 1: to want to find out what were the family's movements,
33:30
Speaker 1: when were they contacted by this individual, their son, When
33:36
Speaker 1: was the ticket purchase for the airline, what was the
33:38
Speaker 1: communication and relationship to that, you know, And so the
33:43
Speaker 1: CAST team, you know, the Southern Analysis Survey team from
33:48
Speaker 1: the FBI, they're going to have all that data and
33:52
Speaker 1: they're going to overlay that data in relationship to the
33:55
Speaker 1: timeline here. SOO, that critical comment that you just made
34:00
Speaker 1: is still on the radar in my opinion. Take a
34:03
Speaker 1: listen to our cut two to eight. This is Noah
34:06
Speaker 1: Bolter from k HQ. Former FBI Jr. Richard Colco says
34:11
Speaker 1: Coburger's charges mean anyone who has been around him could
34:14
Speaker 1: be under a microscope. There's going to be a lot
34:17
Speaker 1: of interviews that's still need to be done. Now they
34:19
Speaker 1: know where they went to school, they can go talk
34:21
Speaker 1: to all of his former classmates, former professor's neighbors, wherever
34:25
Speaker 1: he lived. They'll do that there, they'll do that in Pennsylvania.
34:28
Speaker 1: Lebar says Coburger's biggest concerns surround how his family is
34:32
Speaker 1: handling the aftermath of his arrest. He obviously have concerns
34:37
Speaker 1: for them, and really he's a little shamed that they
34:41
Speaker 1: have to go through this process. The family is totally
34:44
Speaker 1: in shock. They say, their son, their brother, would never
34:48
Speaker 1: have anything to do with a murder. Must let a
34:51
Speaker 1: quadruple murder. Take a listen to the chief public defender
34:56
Speaker 1: there in the Poconos, Jason Labar, and our cut two three.
35:00
Speaker 1: They don't believe it to be Brian. They can't believe
35:03
Speaker 1: this or obviously shocked. This is certainly completely out of
35:08
Speaker 1: character the allegations, and really they're just trying to be
35:12
Speaker 1: supportive with the understanding these four families have suffered loss
35:17
Speaker 1: so that they're sympathetic towards that, and that's why it
35:19
Speaker 1: should remain really private, and they don't want to try
35:22
Speaker 1: this case in the court of public opinion, and without
35:25
Speaker 1: knowing the facts and evidence as of right now, they
35:28
Speaker 1: don't really want to comment on things. And now take
35:30
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut two three two investigators processing
35:34
Speaker 1: Koberger's white Houndean Launtra they say was spotted on surveillance
35:38
Speaker 1: near the crime scene. Koberger and his father driving the
35:41
Speaker 1: car twenty five hundred miles from Washington to Pennsylvania, arriving
35:45
Speaker 1: at the family home a month after the murderers. I
35:49
Speaker 1: continue based on a serious in cars months and sometimes
35:53
Speaker 1: years old, we've been able to find trace amounts of
35:58
Speaker 1: blood and DNA in a view of despite the fact
36:00
Speaker 1: that I had to Cheryl McCollum joining us from the
36:04
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, you're hearing our friends at ABC. Yes,
36:08
Speaker 1: he has had the car for now over a month
36:12
Speaker 1: after the murders. What if anything, what trace evidence could
36:16
Speaker 1: be left behind, Cheryl. There could be drops of blood,
36:18
Speaker 1: There could be hair from one of the victims. That
36:21
Speaker 1: could be hair from the dogs. There could be computers
36:24
Speaker 1: in the car, There could be mud in the car.
36:26
Speaker 1: They could be all kind of things associated with that area,
36:30
Speaker 1: specifically even the parking lot. They're they're looking for anything
36:35
Speaker 1: in that vehicle. And if you remember, like Ted Bundy
36:37
Speaker 1: took the seats out of his car and was literally
36:41
Speaker 1: hosing it down, it doesn't appear that that was necessarily
36:45
Speaker 1: done here. If you look at the outside of the car,
36:47
Speaker 1: it's still filthy, so there could be evidence even on
36:50
Speaker 1: the outside of the car. Remember O. J. Simpson had
36:53
Speaker 1: one drop of blood with all the blood in that
36:57
Speaker 1: one drop, So you're going to have, you know, multiple
37:00
Speaker 1: victims here that were killed at different times, and those
37:03
Speaker 1: blood droplets could have different blood intermingled to tell you
37:07
Speaker 1: again who was killed in what order, but also it
37:10
Speaker 1: could be in his vehicle. Well, you're right, Cheryl McCollum,
37:13
Speaker 1: you're right again. So Joseph Scott Morgan explain how they
37:19
Speaker 1: will go about this tedious process. We're saying what it's
37:21
Speaker 1: going to be in the affidavit This is evidence that
37:24
Speaker 1: may not be in the PC affidavit because it hasn't
37:26
Speaker 1: been gathered yet. They're doing that right now as we speak.
37:31
Speaker 1: What exactly are they doing and how are they doing it?
37:34
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Well, I'll tell you this, that car ain't
37:36
Speaker 1: going back to Otaho. The FBI has that car. They're
37:39
Speaker 1: probably processing it at their facility near Philly or Scranton.
37:43
Speaker 1: They all of these places have these types of garages
37:46
Speaker 1: they can take them in and they are taking this
37:48
Speaker 1: thing apart. They're taking the tires off, they're gonna take
37:51
Speaker 1: the headliner out, they'll probably take well, they're going to
37:54
Speaker 1: remove the seats, they'll take out the dash, they'll take
37:56
Speaker 1: off the steering wheel. They're gonna pull up the carpet
37:59
Speaker 1: and they're gonna go over this scene from stem to stern.
38:03
Speaker 1: What's really fascinating that folks might not know is that
38:06
Speaker 1: there's technology out there. I know that Cheryl can chim
38:09
Speaker 1: in on this with IMBAC, where you think that you've
38:13
Speaker 1: gotten everything out if you're attempting to clean an environment,
38:16
Speaker 1: but when you apply IMBAC technology, which is a vacuum
38:20
Speaker 1: cleaner essentially for crime scene process and it goes down
38:23
Speaker 1: deep into the strata, so anything that's soaked in. And
38:26
Speaker 1: I have held that that car is a rolling crime scene.
38:29
Speaker 1: Just understand that that when if that car was used
38:32
Speaker 1: as a conveyance for him that night when he left,
38:36
Speaker 1: when he left Moscow and transported himself back to Pullman,
38:40
Speaker 1: anything in that scene would have transferred there to that car.
38:44
Speaker 1: And there's no way you can get everything. So they're
38:46
Speaker 1: going to be pulling it up right now. And you
38:48
Speaker 1: make a good point. They still don't know what they
38:50
Speaker 1: have at this point. They just have gotten their hands
38:53
Speaker 1: on the car. So this is going to be a
38:54
Speaker 1: developing story all the way along. But I'm asking about
38:57
Speaker 1: is the exact process how they do it? Do they
39:00
Speaker 1: take a box cutter, for instance, and cut the carpet
39:03
Speaker 1: out of the car, and then they put the carpet
39:06
Speaker 1: under a microscope bit by bit? Do they rub luminole
39:11
Speaker 1: inside the car down in the nooks and crannies where
39:14
Speaker 1: the gearshift may be, or where the radio is, where
39:17
Speaker 1: you touch panels, the light switch. Remember in Teresa Avery's
39:22
Speaker 1: murder excuse me, Teresa Halback's murderer at the hands of
39:26
Speaker 1: Stephen Avery, who shot to fame in making a murder
39:31
Speaker 1: He actually moved her car from where she had parted
39:35
Speaker 1: when she came to take photos for an Auto Trader magazine.
39:39
Speaker 1: He moved her car to the far back end of
39:43
Speaker 1: his salvage lot and covered it up, tried to obscure it.
39:47
Speaker 1: But can you just imagine that hulking killer hunched over
39:51
Speaker 1: the wheel his sweat. We believe something that offered up
39:57
Speaker 1: DNA was found on the ignition of her car. Yeah,
40:02
Speaker 1: it could be, and his sweat could be present. I want,
40:06
Speaker 1: I want to make this point clear. His sweat could
40:08
Speaker 1: be present at the scene in Moscow or Moscow as well.
40:12
Speaker 1: But they're going to use alternative lighting sources like infrared,
40:17
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. There's all kinds of format we
40:19
Speaker 1: can do relative to photography inside the thing. And this
40:22
Speaker 1: is not a blunt event. This is almost like doing
40:24
Speaker 1: surgery within this car. They're going to be they'll have
40:28
Speaker 1: a plant when they go through everything. Because we're talking
40:31
Speaker 1: about at a molecular level, Nancy, anything can be missed
40:36
Speaker 1: very easily, so they will take their time. And he
40:39
Speaker 1: had to have blood on his person when he left
40:42
Speaker 1: that scene. Then he gets in the car, what did
40:45
Speaker 1: he touch? I mean, I'm talking about the steering wheel,
40:49
Speaker 1: the flasher, the light switch, the locking, the door, the
40:54
Speaker 1: seat belt. Yeah yeah, don't you know something could be
40:57
Speaker 1: on that seatbelt if he put it on, because you know,
41:00
Speaker 1: we didn't want to get arrested. But speaking of what
41:03
Speaker 1: is going to be in that PC affidavit, what they
41:05
Speaker 1: do have, what they don't have, this is one thing
41:07
Speaker 1: I believe they do have. Take a listen to our
41:10
Speaker 1: cut two three three are friends at crime Online, a
41:13
Speaker 1: source close to the investigation drops a bombshell claim that
41:17
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger was stalking the victims for weeks leading up
41:21
Speaker 1: to the murders, then war gloves after the quadruple homicide
41:25
Speaker 1: to avoid leaving a trail of evidence. A friend of
41:28
Speaker 1: an investigator says of Coburger, he's not stupid and has
41:32
Speaker 1: been very careful. The source said. As Coburger stalked his victims,
41:37
Speaker 1: his cell phone data showed that he was in the
41:39
Speaker 1: same area as his victims, with their cell phone locations
41:43
Speaker 1: matching up on multiple occasions in the weeks leading up
41:46
Speaker 1: to their deaths. The source said, not sure if they
41:49
Speaker 1: ever interacted, but his cell phone pings followed their every
41:53
Speaker 1: move for weeks, and Nancy as we speak. The probable
41:56
Speaker 1: cause affidavit has been released, and even though coburger phone
42:00
Speaker 1: did not ping near the home of the murders between
42:03
Speaker 1: three am and five AM on the thirteenth, phone records
42:06
Speaker 1: clearly indicate at least twelve prior occasions before November thirteenth,
42:11
Speaker 1: his phone was in the area of the home in
42:14
Speaker 1: the late evening or early morning hours. That's not all
42:18
Speaker 1: police are revealing the recovery of a tan leather knife
42:21
Speaker 1: sheath laying on the bed right next to Mattie Mogan.
42:25
Speaker 1: The sheath had a K bar USMC and the United
42:28
Speaker 1: States Marine Corps Eagle globe and Anchor insignia stamped on
42:32
Speaker 1: the outside of it. The Idaho State Lab located a
42:35
Speaker 1: single source of male DNA left on the button snap
42:39
Speaker 1: of the knife sheath. We wait as justice uncles Nancy
42:45
Speaker 1: Grace signing off good Bysman