Latest / Mission: 300 Podcast / Episode 100 - Exploring Identity Through the Lens of Technology

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Episode 100 - Exploring Identity Through the Lens of Technology · Mission: 300 Podcast

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All right, everyone. Welcome to the Mission 300 podcast.
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We've got a banger for you today. And I apologize. That's the first time I've
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used that word in this entire history of our podcast. But here's the thing.
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We have kind of an argument slash debate slash just good conversation that we
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want to bring you guys into as our listeners, all three of you.
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And we had this two-layered debate.
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We want to talk about identity on the serious end of things.
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But then we got sidetracked into talking about iPhone versus Android,
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open source versus we'll call it not open source or closed source,
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proprietary, or whatever terms we end up using here.
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And we're trying to figure out how to square these things. So you guys might
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not know this, but as the hosts of this podcast, we are actually split on this issue.
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I've been an iPhone guy for the last many years You know, when I came of age
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and started getting into having your own phone getting your own computer system
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I was in the music industry. And so it was it was just apple.
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That's just what we used And some people grew up less fortunate than me and
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had to settle for android So now they're used to them and they don't want to let them go.
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So Maybe as we get into this You guys can And just give everyone your name and
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where you stand on this issue and a brief defense of why.
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I'm just going to be the lukewarm Christian here because I'm sitting here in
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this meeting on a Mac computer and I have an Android phone and I've had both. I'm happy with both.
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It depends on what you want me to use it for, but if it's for my job,
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I'll have to go with Apple for the speed of video editing and creative software
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that it's compatible with.
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If it's to annoy my friends with green bubble text, then I'll have to go with
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Android just to be stubborn and make other people mad.
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So kind of on either, either end of the spectrum here,
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probably a good mediator for this debate, if that's what we're going to call it,
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because I've had both use both kind of happy with both because I don't care
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in a way, but I think there's a deeper,
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more important meaning here that we'll get down to, and then I'll completely
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change my mind on which is better. So definitely stay tuned for that.
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I'm going to win you over, man. Well, Brian here being the oldest,
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I was selling in an electronic store the first iPhones, the first iPods.
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Well, it was first iPod, then it became the iPhone.
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For those who don't remember, the first iPhone was a cross between an iPod and
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an iPhone, but it didn't have phone service yet.
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So you had to use Wi-Fi to function your device.
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So I saw it all, and I didn't go with what the trend was.
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I wanted to find the thing that was useful to me, and so I slid over to the
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Samsung devices, which I have become more loyal to.
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But besides that, I like the idea that you can make choices and do things with
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your device that are not proprietary where you have to have a special cable to do this,
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a special doodad to do that.
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And in the times with headphones, pretty much now they've all gone that way
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because everybody's gotten used to it.
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But when Bluetooth was expensive, you could not plug your phone in without buying
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a special adapter that cost more than the headphones to use your iPhone.
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So it was that kind of thing that set me apart. So I'm much more of an open source, Android-y.
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Type of guy david here the youngest in the podcast crew.
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I am a very technical person i
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love all the software that is absolutely open
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source and free and if i want i can mess and tinker with the insides of the
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software i can actually download android and make my own android if i felt like
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it put my own program my own software.
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I love open source. I'm very technical.
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I use Windows, but there's a part of me that wants to switch to Linux,
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even though I know it's not better.
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I just love the technicality and feeling the technicals of using the open source software.
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And that's what Android brings to my heart.
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Tommy, we need your stance on this.
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And for our listeners, we're doing this recording over
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zoom and tommy isn't able
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to have his video running right now so he's got his video turned off
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and for those of you who are aware of zoom by default it'll say
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your your username and so right now
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tommy square says tommy's iphone
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and so i'm really curious where he's gonna
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land on this and i'm sure the sound quality
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will be fantastic based on his choice of devices go
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ahead tommy i absolutely love
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and adore androids they are
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the best machine on the
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market by far made with such innovation and quality and just really user like
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interface is just like the top of their you know like super easy to use the
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green oh i love green green messages make me Like, whoo, money.
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That's what green is. Money, money, money. We love it.
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Yeah, I don't exactly know what we're discussing, but I think I think by far superior.
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But granted, being said, I just really take what the phone to me is a tool.
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It gets me from point A to point B, allows me to communicate.
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It could be I thought about just getting back to the flip phone. You never know.
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So I feel like Tommy is taking the role of the 87 year old man on this episode.
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It's just a phone, it doesn't matter to me I could use my own flip phone,
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Which I did not expect So I'm a little caught off guard by that But so I had
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this thought while we were all sharing Our positions here And Brian and David
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Would you guys agree, at least on this,
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That the iPhone Interface by default, the software By default is the most User
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friendly On the market right now Yes.
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Okay but david like you were saying you're you're a
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lot more technical and able
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to do things with software with tech that
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most people are not able to do so to
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you you have you get much better use out of an open source system that you can
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mess around with my parents would not be suited for something like that and
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so i kind of feel like the the different platforms it's like well if you're
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this kind of person and you just really want something user-friendly, easy to understand,
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it's got very simple cloud backup and all these things, then this software and
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this platform might be for you.
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If you're this kind of person, then this software and this platform might be
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for you. And so it's almost like there's all these different options.
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And depending on who you are and what you want, you choose the one that's best for you.
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Would you guys kind of agree with that? I've never used an iPhone.
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Never? Here's the thing. I don't have to think about what I missed out on when
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I never try the thing to begin with.
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So bringing this back to our personal identity, because there is a tie-in to
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this for all the listeners that we're going off on this.
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No, it's true. We all have different views, different points,
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different reasons why we do things.
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A truly someone who understands open source
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or understands that the how android works because you can look at all of the
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the the schematics you can look at how it how it functions you can actually
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keep viruses out and you can keep the negative things out because you have access to it,
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in the case of a closed system you have no control over that you don't even
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know if you get a virus You don't know what happens to your stuff.
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You don't know any of that.
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And there's both a pull each way, but I think we're designed that way too, even in our identity.
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And so I want to make the case that we're much more open source,
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that we get to kind of see the nuts and bolts and deal with each piece in relationship
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to God versus God just puts it on you and sovereignly moving you through the process.
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And to some, it's way easier because I don't have to know anything if God's
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just sovereignly moving my identity around.
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But if it's open source, that means I have to dig in and start learning how
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is my identity working and your relationship with God to understanding that.
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So it gets rid of the lazies in our identity.
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I'm wondering if you can clear this up for me a bit and maybe at some point,
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most if not all metaphors break down when you're trying to compare them to the bigger topic at hand.
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And so that might happen, at least in my mind, at some point in this.
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But how would you differentiate that with what you're saying,
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Brian, between the idea that if your identity is more open source,
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then your identity can be whatever you want it to be?
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As in, in the light of, I think that's what we see around us a lot culturally is.
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And that's what, that, what I was getting at with the, the different options
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for people. Well, if you like this, then you can have this.
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If you like this, then you can have this. And there's no right or wrong answer.
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There's no good or bad answer. Everything's just okay.
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Everything's up for grabs for whatever you want it to be.
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And I, I think that's a pitfall that we need to avoid. So how would you describe that kind of context?
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Well, if we just slide over to Abraham or Abram, so he's given his identity.
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You're the father of many nations, go to a new land.
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So now the identity is given, right? So we can say the identity is given.
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We can say we have a phone correct so
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the identity isn't like when we're talking about whether
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it's android whether it's iphone in this in our fun little humor at the beginning
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those are still phones they're still devices to communicate they're still they
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all share the same direction they use the same networks they're not,
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wrenches. They're not tires. So an Android will never be a tire on a car.
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It's not that identity. The identity is the phone. All right.
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But the uniqueness of each person. So you got Abram being sent out.
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His identity was secure.
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Can we agree on that? He's the father of many nations. He will be the one to do that.
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Now, 26 years later, when he finally can't even have children anymore,
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when his body physically can't do what's been asked of him to do,
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is when we see the manifestation of his identity fully.
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True? But in that journey, he had to go look at the sand of the sea. He had his name changed.
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He built this relationship with God, and the more he got to know God,
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the more confidence that he had, and he kept growing in the stages.
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And in a way, he was understanding the open sourceness of his identity because
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he could function within it.
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And he could turn some things on and he could turn some things off.
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And sometimes it didn't work out. Now, the identity didn't change,
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but his functioning with the relationship with God and the relationship with
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himself was evolving into becoming the fullness of the end.
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So every character had that same process in it versus you're the father of many
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nations. It doesn't really matter what you do.
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It doesn't matter what you do with me. You're just going to be that.
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That's kind of the proprietary system. You're going to like this device and
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the way we set it up and you're going to be happy about it versus here's your
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device. This is what it does, or this is who you are.
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Now let's grow in relationship and understanding of how we interact so God can
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bring us to the place that he saw in us from the very beginning.
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So we walk with him, bringing out, and we start understanding more of our thinking.
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We're the ones who have to cast down thoughts. We're the ones who have to renew our mind.
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We're the ones who have to do that. So you can't do that if you don't understand
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the workings of your identity, because you don't know what's true and false.
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So in proprietary, I don't know what's true and false inside.
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But in open source, I get to see what's true and false and I can work with that.
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So that's my take on that thought process. So it's not, oh, I want to be this today.
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Oh, I want to be that today. No, the identity, the phone has to work on a network.
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So the network is like God. Yeah, this gets a dumb analogy, but just for the
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network is like God and you're the phone connecting to it, that's what you're designed for.
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But within the functionality of the uniqueness, there's thousands of different
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options for Android, per se, all different personality types,
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all different everything.
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And right. And there's this huge choice of all these different options for iPhone.
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Oh, wait, did I say that? No, there's one.
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So you're an iPhone or you're a Motorola Razr.
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You're a Samsung Galaxy. You know, just look at the list of all the unique fingerprints,
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because it's open source, but they all do the exact same thing within their identity.
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I think, kind of without removing the analogy, is what you're saying is that
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God gives us a blueprint, a starting point, and a direction.
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And we have no we don't he doesn't tell us how to
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get to the ending point but he gives us
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the blueprint to build upon and explore
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that direction he doesn't just give us the entire
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route and direction he kind of starts us off as this blueprint he gives us his
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word and the bible and wisdom to get from point a to point b but there's a veil
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over point a to point b that's frustrating to a lot of people,
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but it's just the way God works.
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Is that kind of pretty much what you're saying without the metaphor?
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Yeah. And it's, it's not, it's not blind either because each stage he reveals more.
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So the more we know him, the more of the trail is explored because you know
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how he would think about it.
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And if I know how he's going to think about it, I know how I can think about
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it because I'm made in his image, right?
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So then at the same token, I can renew my mind and change my thinking about
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something to take on new thoughts so I can move forward.
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And that's me interacting with God and my identity. But I'm not making an identity.
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I'm not reshaping my identity. I'm walking out my identity.
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And so this brings us back to one point that probably needs to be covered.
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Your identity is bestowed on you.
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So when we're talking about identity, we're not necessarily talking about the
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biological identities, which you're born with.
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I'm talking about the, this is what you are. This is who you are.
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This is your name, the identifiers of who you are that shape your direction.
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But it's so much more of a journey of relationship between the identity and
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God is our father than the fact of this is just what you are. So it's one final point.
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It's kind of like if you ask a Christian, who are you? Well,
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I'm a son, daughter of God.
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Well, yes, that's true. But that's just like one huge pot. But who are you within that?
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What is your significance within that umbrella of things?
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Well, then you get everybody for a loss for words. Well, I don't know.
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And I think part of it is, back to the analogy, we've been told this big picture,
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but we've never been able to actually interact on a personal level and trust
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I can walk those things out within my identity and let God personally speak
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to me of how I benefit the whole in my personalness,
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which means I have to be able to see within myself and how my identity works
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and how it affects my future and who I am and remind myself of who I am.
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One question I would have, because I think like, I agree with everything you're
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saying, but I think it's in the analogy, it's true.
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And in real life, it's true is if you hand somebody open software and then the close,
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like we're saying it's more user interface friendly
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all this stuff a lot of people want to choose mac because or apple because of
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the user friendliness and all these different things like it's just given to
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you on a silver platter you don't have to do any of the thinking about the open
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software all this stuff because like for david's mind oh that's awesome he's super technical.
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And all this different stuff but for a lot of people i think and i think this
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isn't true in life is they'd rather just be told how it's going to be and how
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to go about these different things.
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Like, I know I do this all the time where it's like, I'd rather not have to think about it.
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I'd rather just kind of be told how to do this.
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So there's no like mental effort, there's no risk, all these different things.
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And I, you know, what do you think people, I mean, anybody can give their input
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onto this, but like, what do people need to hear?
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Because there is also like when you, you know kind of the joke about the green
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bubble you get a green bubble text from an android user but there is like if
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we're really going into the analogy there is something different about you when
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you use an open software you have to know more you have to have.
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Bigger knowledge base to use it sometimes in a way like some of it's already
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set up on phones but as far as computers go and i think for a lot of people
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that's a a turn off to that because it's like well i don't want to have to think
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about all that i'd rather just be all there for me,
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ready to go like told who i am all this different stuff and i think that applies
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in real life as well you see it happen all the time where people just want to
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kind of pick somebody and kind of mimic them.
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Like they'll pick a preacher and be like, well, everything that preacher says
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I'm going with that or whatever.
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So I don't have to, you know, try and hear God's voice on my own for my life and stuff.
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And I think, I don't know. I think it is like a big issue and I can tell in
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my life when I'm doing it.
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So I'm not saying this is like everybody else doing it. Right.
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But like, what do you think?
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Like, what are we missing looking for identity? Cause there's like,
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there, all this stuff you're talking about.
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So powerful, like walking out your identity with God, like this finding more
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of the trail, but to a lot of people, they don't hear that when you're saying
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that they're hearing like.
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That just sounds like more work and more complicated and something I can mess up.
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Cause it sounds like you're asking me to do something. Not a lot of other people are doing.
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And so I guess like, there's kind of this question when it comes
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to the identity thing of like how do you even start to get to that point like
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what's the trigger point to go no i need that in my life like if that makes
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sense kind of because what you're talking about is awesome but somebody could
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be listening to it and be like well that that's just like i don't even know where to start,
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with that because why would i bother nobody else is doing that it's a great question i think it's.
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And we have to kind of move away from our analogy now because we all like, here's the deal.
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The thing you get used to using and you understand, that's what you usually stay with.
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Because we don't want to have to rethink it every single time we go in. All right?
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So that really is a true statement. It's part of the reason why we like that.
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But let's just look at Christianity for a moment.
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We like it when the pastor comes and tells us what's going to be on Sunday.
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We want to go sit in a place with great music already prepared we
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want us to give as little as we have to in order
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to enjoy this huge event and our
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identity ends up becoming more about the location
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that we go to or the group that we're in than
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the individual because none of us really want to
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go through the labor of knowing and i think part of the reason we
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don't want to go through the labor of knowing like you
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think about anything you guys have learned so jason you're
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a great musician caleb you you're brilliant with the with film and and how to
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put a good idea together david is great on the engineering side tommy is really
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good with people and and his interactions and so we we all have this thing that
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we gave ourselves to so we're all giving ourselves to something.
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And why are we working hard at it? Because we can see a hope in it,
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and it's something that keeps pulling us into it.
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I would venture to say something in our communication about what God gives us
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in our identity has become so watered down into just participating in a mass that we don't value.
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We don't even want to go through the labor because what's the point?
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And I think that's the bigger thing.
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We've stripped away this relationship
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we use terms that make it that we're really just chess pieces.
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And so give me the best, give me the best chess piece as you're moving me around.
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And then we just kind of cope with that, but we don't step further into like
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the Abram, leave your home, go to a place I'm going to tell you to,
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and I'm going to bless you there. I mean, who does that?
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Who does, who just goes, they hear a voice and they just go.
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But it's in that whole journey because he knew there was something.
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And he said against hope, he believed in hope.
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And then he also said that he believed in the God who raises the dead and causes
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those things that don't exist as though they do.
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So he creates out of nothing, he raises the dead.
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And so this is who Abraham got to know as God the Father.
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Now when things come along. He knows what there's this energy to go learn more
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and to become part of that.
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I want to ask some questions because when I first heard the identity thing,
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because this is one of my dad's favorite topics, I, in my mind,
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my identity is I'm a child of God.
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And that's kind of the depth of the identity statement for me.
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And then sure, maybe there's more to it. Maybe it's like, okay,
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well, my identity is in God and then my identity is also the Bible.
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But in my mind, my identity is the same as the Christian over there, his identity.
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His identity is the same as the Christian over there, their identity.
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And okay, maybe you can take spiritual gifts or something.
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Okay, my identity is in the body of Christ, is the eyes, or his identity is the hands or something.
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And that was the extent of identity in my mind.
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And I didn't know anything else what that looked like
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besides maybe those verses in corinthians about how
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the church is a body so if you
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wouldn't mind could you give some examples of
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for example jamie winship that
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or in your life or what your
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identity is or things like this to
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give examples because i think what you
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say is there's a part of your identity that isn't
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the same as anyone else's identity your identity is different
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than and something unique your but
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your god-given identity is something unique that isn't
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in everybody so could you give some examples of what that looks like yeah so
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you have different personalities so you have everything about every character
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in the bible well maybe you're not going to sit there and think about everyone
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right now every character had a completely different personality.
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Not a different interaction with God, but it's almost like,
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You know, you could take a Gideon says, Gideon really got to know God's left
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hand, like that side of him, his left side.
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Abram really got to know the right side of God. I don't mean which one's right
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or wrong. Let's do back, front, whatever.
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We know an aspect. Caleb, you know an aspect of your parents different than your sisters know.
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It's all the same person, but their interaction because of their personality
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is different. So, to repeat characters, so you have Abram had one interaction with God.
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He discovered something about God. He walked it out, became a man of righteousness.
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You have Gideon, you have Samson, you have Jephthah, you have King David,
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you have Daniel, you have Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
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You have all these different characters. and then you could get in the New Testament,
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Peter and John were completely different people.
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Yet they worked side by side, completely different people. John could see into the spirit realm.
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He had whole different visionary of who God was, not of who God was,
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not a different God, but aspects because of his personality that were critical.
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Peter had discovered a different aspect because of his identity and his calling.
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Peter's the guy that's speaking in front of Peter. people.
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Peter's the guy who's, they're laying people out in front of him just so his
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shadow would cross over him and they would get raised out of their sickness. This is Peter.
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John wasn't that vocal, yet his writings are amazing and they take us into a different realm.
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So when I say the uniqueness, when we just sit on this phone call, every one of us has this.
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Whether it's kind of an engineering bent or a creative side in the sense of
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making movies or music and speaking,
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or maybe it's just more solid on the business side of connecting people and how that works.
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Look at this whole call of people. We're all so different.
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We're so different. We all think differently. Now, we're not thinking differently
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like we're thinking opposite of each other.
27:30
But the thing that's important to our frame is so different than each other person's frame.
27:38
And so if you knew God was involved in that frame, in that personal side,
27:46
all of a sudden there'd be an eagerness to see what he could do with you.
27:50
Now, as he begins speaking to you, this is what you are. This is what you are within the body.
27:57
You now can get your mind off of you. You can put your mind onto him and your
28:03
identity starts benefiting other people around you.
28:07
I think one of the worst things is when we don't help people find their unique
28:12
identity, they get, they spend all their time on trying to find it anyway.
28:17
We're always trying to find. we just
28:20
don't go to god over it because it's already blanketed there's
28:24
there's nothing special about you there's nothing
28:27
unique about you and we just know that's not
28:30
true just look around at creation everything is unique every snowflake every
28:37
animal same class but they're all different different personalities take a bunch
28:42
of dogs even of the same breed they're all just different They all just have
28:46
a different way of handling things.
28:49
And so that's our uniqueness.
28:51
But we don't know how to necessarily tap into that because the main group has
28:57
said, you're just sons and daughters of God.
28:59
And they'll say you're unique. You have a purpose. You have a calling.
29:04
It's so general. It's kind of like if I get an iPhone and want to go do music
29:08
on garage bands or whatever, but I'm not a musician, it's not going to benefit me.
29:13
In fact I won't even give myself very much time into
29:15
it because it just doesn't fit my frame of reference but Jason
29:19
you can I'm I'm shocked at how good
29:22
a music you create on that little iPhone six seven years
29:25
ago that you were using but you you saw
29:28
it and you could you could interact with it and so to David's question the the
29:33
unique side of things is every character the reason that the Bible is filled
29:39
with stories about people is because we are all unique characters.
29:45
We're, in a sense, open source.
29:49
We're an open source, not changing. Keep in mind, open source doesn't mean the source changes.
29:55
It just means we can understand the source so we know how to interact with it.
30:00
And we can add proper things that fit our uniqueness within that.
30:05
All right? So open doesn't mean today I'm this, tomorrow I'm something different.
30:09
No, that doesn't change.
30:10
But proprietary means I'm going to shut all that down, that you're just a big general blob.
30:16
And I'll dictate. And we'll surrender to that. I mean, communism did it for years.
30:21
We'll surrender to it that we don't have to actually go and walk this thing
30:26
out. And the truth is you have to go learn it.
30:29
You have to learn your God as a father, not know about him, not read more books about him, know him.
30:35
You need to discover the words that were spoken over us of who we actually are
30:41
in him, our uniqueness in him.
30:44
And then we can slowly start walking it out. I saw this in David's life.
30:49
The, the Russell back and forth of, okay, I want to do something for God,
30:52
but I really like engineering and this, this kind of back and forth.
30:56
And I think that's settled.
30:58
Like I'm all, he's all God, all quote unquote ministry, whatever you define
31:04
that as in his gifting of engineering.
31:08
And that becomes a powerful thing. Now, guess what?
31:11
His relationship with God increases. but if some
31:14
if i'm spiritual if i'm in this group over
31:17
here but over here these aren't spiritual things
31:20
i won't look for god in those and i will look
31:23
for another source or another software to make me oh different over here but
31:30
then i can right when i say over here i'll look for something in my everyday
31:36
life because god doesn't really function in that and we don't know what to give ourselves to.
31:42
So the thing is we start disconnecting from God, trying to figure it out on
31:46
our own. And where is our whole focus become ourselves?
31:49
So actually the most selfish people are the ones that don't understand their uniqueness in God.
31:56
Because the more you understand your uniqueness in God, you don't have to think
31:59
about yourself because you're free just to operate within your identity and
32:04
your relationship with him.
32:06
And all of a sudden you think about other people. And that is at the essence
32:10
of the fruit of the Holy spirit.
32:13
All the fruit is the eyes aren't on you. It's on the people around you,
32:18
right? Cause the tree doesn't eat its own fruit.
32:22
People around eat the fruit. So that's where I'm almost going to go that it's
32:27
been a disservice to blanketing our identity as just one big thing versus the
32:33
uniqueness within our identity.
32:36
And this is why, and Jason and I have talked about this forever,
32:40
this is why the Old Testament characters get so ripped apart because we want
32:47
them in a box that we can understand that is no different than us.
32:52
And we see this when the children of Israel wanted to go and to send the spies into the promised land.
32:57
And in Numbers, Caleb says, we surely can overcome.
33:01
Now keep in mind, they're slaves for 400 years.
33:05
They've never been to war. They don't know how to carry a sword.
33:09
They don't know how to do any of this stuff.
33:11
Yet God says, you're going to go overcome. And then Caleb says,
33:15
we can surely overcome. The other 10 spies say, no, there's giants in the land. that we can't win.
33:22
We're just grass. And it says we're grasshoppers in our own sight.
33:25
So you see, they blanketed an identity.
33:28
One person knew who he was.
33:31
The rest thought they were something different, is a groom, and it kept them
33:36
out of the promised land.
33:37
And so I think the uniqueness is so critical in this journey.
33:43
And by the way, if we have a relationship with God, and we're just in a general
33:48
group, how does that work?
33:51
Seems to me we have more relationship with the organizations and entities we're
33:55
in than we are with God himself.
33:57
I was thinking about that. This was years ago.
34:02
I think we very quickly forget what we've been given when it comes to identity
34:08
and just to stick with our metaphor with a phone.
34:11
So I remember the first time I got an iPhone with GarageBand on it being so
34:17
geeked out of what I could do with it.
34:20
And most people, I was listening to a podcast at the time and the guy was talking
34:25
about how we have no idea what we can accomplish with these devices that we have now.
34:31
Everyone uses them to talk, text, and surf the web and be on social media.
34:34
And you don't realize that you have a device that can do anything.
34:38
You can start a business from your phone.
34:41
You can write songs from your phone. You can edit movies and take film things
34:46
on your phone. You can do all this stuff from this phone.
34:48
And we get excited about that for 20 seconds.
34:51
And then it just becomes, oh yeah, well, yeah, I can do a lot of stuff.
34:54
And we use it for nothing, but doom scrolling and whatever.
34:59
And I think we've done that.
35:02
Because there is so much possibility. There's the born again aspect.
35:05
You realize what you've been given, and then we settle into this, okay, I'm a Christian.
35:12
And we forget that there's so much that you can walk in as a believer with the
35:19
identity you've been given.
35:20
And there are things, I think it's not a stretch to say that there are customizable
35:25
things. There are things in aspects of our identity that people use more.
35:31
And the New Testament talks about this.
35:34
There's different gifts that the Spirit gives. There's different roles,
35:38
there's different functions, but beyond that there's different life paths and
35:41
different careers that people take and use those gifts in.
35:45
And it doesn't make it less a phone or more of a phone. It just means that's
35:49
what this is being used for.
35:50
And we've kind of taken the adventure out of it.
35:54
I'll give one example of this that I guess kind of makes people feel weird at times.
36:02
The Bible talks about and describes dragons.
36:05
And you think about that and you either write it off as a weird mythological
36:10
fairy tale or some nonsense.
36:12
But I think that kind of proves my point of the problem there.
36:15
We've taken amazing, adventurous, epic things of creation itself and watered
36:21
them down and written them off to the point we don't even think about them anymore.
36:24
We've taken amazing aspects of identity and wired it down to,
36:29
well, I'm just a child of God like everybody else.
36:32
And then we get lost. Yeah, I think another thing that's relevant to this is
36:37
like, for the past month, I've been in a new town and everything and trying
36:42
to convince myself to go to church.
36:44
And I know it sounds kind of funny, like convincing yourself to go to church.
36:47
But just going by myself and kind of a way that I've never done before.
36:53
Cause it's either been with like family or friends and different stuff like that.
36:56
And kind of my thought process, I started to realize when I was giving myself
37:01
excuses for why not to go and not to talk to people and stuff was because I
37:06
kept on kind of telling myself, well,
37:08
they're like, I don't have anything to offer anybody when it comes to going
37:12
to church because like I know how church works.
37:16
Like I, I'm a Christian.
37:19
It's fine. Like they're probably good without me there and everything.
37:23
And I think that's kind of like what we're talking about when people think it,
37:27
when it comes to identity, we kind of get in this spot where it's like,
37:31
well, we're not really, we don't
37:33
have anything to offer or I don't have anything to offer because like,
37:36
you know, I just have like my life.
37:39
And I think we've, that's like what you're saying, Brian, like there's more
37:43
to identity than what we have in the like confines of what we've seen examples of.
37:50
And it kind of came to this point this past weekend where it was like, okay, well.
37:55
I do have something to offer, whether that's like friendship with somebody there
37:59
and, you know, I want to make friends and stuff, but there,
38:02
it would be kind of my last thought before I like went into church was like,
38:06
it would be a shame for me to go year living in this town and not offer anybody what I have.
38:14
And I think it's kind of like the parable of the talents.
38:16
Like it's like God gives these different talents or the king gives the talents
38:21
or the money or whatever to the different servants. And then he comes back a
38:25
year later and he's like, what did you do with it?
38:28
And I'm butchering the parable, but basically the one who hid them away and did nothing.
38:34
That was like the incorrect response to be giving these talents.
38:38
And I think it's like, God has placed in each person, such a unique identity
38:43
that we all have something to offer and sacrifice,
38:47
but we kind of simple it down because we think it's not like what we've seen people around us do.
38:54
Like, it's not like the example of that.
38:57
I don't have the talent, like that missionary I read about or this preacher
39:01
on the stage. Like I'm terrible at public speaking.
39:03
So, and I, I like, I get nervous talking to new people.
39:08
So I don't have anything to offer people because, and it turns into this like
39:12
cyclical looking inward.
39:16
And in reality we're forgetting like god
39:20
being with us and all the unique
39:23
characters he's put within us with characteristics that he's put within us and
39:27
we kind of like or i know i do i like i forget it so easily because i get caught
39:33
up in my own little world and so i think it's a good reminder like what you're
39:36
saying brian like there it's almost like we want all these different definitions to help us we want,
39:42
we want this like user interface laid out for us.
39:46
That's like, we don't have to do anything because that'd be too much work.
39:50
But I think like, I, like for me, it really helped for me to go to church this weekend.
39:55
Cause I was like, okay, it's a process. And it would be a shame if I go a year
39:59
without offering to anything to anybody, like, you know, like in Romans where
40:04
it says, offer up your body as a living sacrifice.
40:07
Maybe that's part of it, of like offering what God has given you to other people
40:11
and back to God because he has given you unique characteristics.
40:15
And we just get so caught up at looking at everybody else's identity that we
40:20
can't even think about our own.
40:23
Like, okay, what has God given me that I can give to other people?
40:27
And then you want to become better at that because that's like a talent you
40:32
have or a unique characteristic.
40:34
And I think we just get too caught up or I know I do get too caught up in like
40:39
looking at what other people have going on and kind of getting all bummed out,
40:44
forgetting everything that God has given me and then not doing anything with it anyways.
40:49
And it, it's a shame that it, it's like that.
40:52
And I think I just have to remind myself of the things that God has given me.
40:57
Cause I think it's, you know, that's where you want to
41:00
give it back to God and give it to other people because there's
41:03
a reason God gave it to you and put you on this earth that's where
41:06
like our identity starts going into purpose and
41:09
meaning of life because it moves you forward to these
41:12
different things if you truly live it out and everything so
41:15
definitely a good reminder I mean even if it just is to get me to go to church
41:20
this weekend or whatever I have an example for you David too because you asked
41:24
for specific examples and there's in the last like year and a half there's this
41:31
kind of been a new thing-ish for me.
41:34
The last year and a half, I've really been wanting to see people that want to
41:41
build for the future in our church and in our community here.
41:45
I wanted to see them come together. That sounds like a big cliche,
41:49
but I guess the picture I had of it was we have a small church,
41:54
been around for a long time, and it's been consistent.
41:59
It's small, but it's been consistent. It's been faithful for many years,
42:02
but there is something I wanted to see,
42:06
built of youth of, I don't mean kids, like young families that are building
42:12
for the future that want to see stuff that lasts beyond our time and our kids'
42:17
time and our grandkids' time.
42:19
And I had no idea what to do with that. It was just this idea.
42:22
And it's kind of like, Hey, I wonder if I want to see this thing.
42:25
I want to be able to use this identity for this thing. And we have half a dozen
42:30
new young families that have started coming since that time because there's just something...
42:36
There's something going around
42:37
where it's, you know, there's one family went to a much bigger church.
42:41
It was not quite a mega church, but drastically larger than ours.
42:45
A lot of exciting worship, lights, video, smog machines, dynamic speaking, all that stuff.
42:52
And they're like, we want something different. There's another family where
42:55
it's like, my family's gone to this other church for generations and it will
42:59
make my grandparents very angry and cause some family troubles if we don't go there,
43:04
but there's nothing for us there and there's something of life here.
43:07
And so we want to start building something here.
43:09
And so that hasn't been part of my function or my identity or my pursuit very
43:18
much in the past, but it's something new that's just come up.
43:21
And the whole thing that made me realize is you can just do things.
43:26
You don't have to ask for permission. You can just do stuff and see what grows.
43:31
You have this open source phone. You can just do stuff with it and you don't
43:35
have to ask someone's permission. You can just make stuff happen.
43:38
You know, in all this, there's an interesting dynamic of helping create an environment
43:42
that you walking in your true identity in God, in Jesus,
43:49
what he provided for is the most spiritual thing you can ever do.
43:55
So whether the application at times is in business or the application is in
44:02
engineering or the application is in video making or the application is in pastoring,
44:08
managing a business, whatever.
44:10
Those are applications. So
44:12
those aren't your identities, but those are outflows of your identities.
44:15
And when you do those from your identity, it's the most spiritual thing that you can do.
44:23
And we don't celebrate that. And honestly, the gifts to the body of Christ,
44:30
so keep in mind, if someone's called to be a pastor, an apostle,
44:33
or whatever, you're actually a gift to the body.
44:37
You're not, the body's a gift to you.
44:40
You're a gift to the body.
44:43
To edify, build them up, to go do the work of the ministry. And so what's the work of the ministry?
44:49
It's being out there. It's functioning fully in your identity.
44:55
And then people see you and say, I want that. I want what you have there.
44:59
How does that ever happen if it's not out in everyday life?
45:04
And we don't make being in everyday life a spiritual event.
45:09
And when I say spiritual, I don't mean foofy spiritual. I mean the essence of what you are.
45:15
Now when you go back to church, you're filled up so you can go be that,
45:19
but we don't celebrate the outside. We celebrate the conference on the inside.
45:24
And so it gets very confusing. And in order to become bigger at the conference on the inside,
45:29
I have to do more things to make it more proprietary, more unique,
45:35
more about the group than about the individual.
45:41
That's going to be going out. And I think, Jason, I know your heart in that
45:45
is very similar, even what you're talking about with small families.
45:49
We want to come and gather. So this isn't against coming and gathering.
45:52
But the purpose of coming to gather is so that you can be refreshed,
45:57
strengthened, your identity is called out, your false identities that you're
46:01
hanging on to are stripped away, and you step back into the environments that
46:06
is part of your occupation,
46:09
part of your, what you've chosen to do in your identity.
46:12
And that is where the difference is made.
46:16
That's where the difference is made. That's why you can have a Gideon.
46:20
Like we don't talk about just.
46:24
You know, we talk about the heroes of faith, but it actually doesn't call them heroes of faith.
46:28
We've identified a big group of people to heroes of faith, but it actually says
46:32
time wouldn't help me tell.
46:35
And he starts in the writer of Hebrews names each one of these individuals.
46:40
Think about that for a moment. He's naming the individuals, not the big heroes
46:47
we've, we've labeled that.
46:49
And so I just think it's a very important thing that each one of,
46:53
by the way, there was not one pastor, quote unquote, that we would see today
46:57
that did any fantastic thing in the Old Testament.
47:02
There's really very few priests that are even mentioned that did anything that is different.
47:10
However, they had such a key role when they did it properly to edify the workers.
47:17
So you think about, you have a king and they always had a prophet come and speak to him.
47:20
So if the king did right, what was the prophet's role to keep him on track?
47:25
What was the priest's role is to give him guidance and to, in the answering
47:30
of prayer, but now we don't need that because we have it in the Holy Spirit, but they didn't.
47:35
And so what did they navigate?
47:37
So that the king could go be a king, so that Daniel could go be Daniel,
47:42
so that, you guys catch the picture. They did things so that the identity could go affect the world.
47:49
So it's all individual. And it is the most sacred thing to live from your identity
47:56
in a world that doesn't necessarily accept it.
48:01
We should be the biggest empowerment of that in the body of Christ so they could
48:09
function in the world around them. That's how people are one.
48:12
And I think it's interesting.
48:13
People think that knowing Jesus is just about sharing a message.
48:18
Jesus actually said, they'll know you because I will be in you.
48:23
You will be in me. We will become one and they will know the father sent me.
48:30
So how do people know when we walk in our identity in him? That's how people know.
48:35
Yes, we open our mouth and we share, but the attraction is that piece.
48:41
I think it's ironic that we look at things like engineering as not as much a part of the body.
48:47
You look at the human body and tell me engineering isn't the most crucial thing
48:50
to the human body. You don't think that was engineered.
48:53
You look at how joints fit together. You don't think manufacturing is a body thing.
48:58
Do you understand how the body manufactures things to replace damaged tissue and muscle?
49:04
There's so much more incredible things that we've written off as not as Christian
49:10
when they are literally the fabric of creation.
49:13
I want to make sure this podcast today closes on that note.
49:19
The uniqueness is the most spiritual thing you can do with God.
49:24
And when you get it, you'll want to contribute to the rest of the body you'll
49:29
be for the rest of the body you'll want to make the rest of the body work.
49:35
That's, that's the element of this that people don't quite understand.
49:38
Some reason we say, oh, if you become unique and free in your own identity,
49:42
everybody will just be a bunch of independents running around.
49:44
The truth is when they're truly free, they're actually wanting to build the body.
49:50
One final thought that has been helpful to me
49:53
is like when you are starting the process
49:56
of like who am i or what's my identity i think for the longest time i was like
50:02
trying to come up with a title for myself like oh am i like a storyteller no
50:07
no no because i don't really like that's not oh okay i'm like a creative yeah
50:12
yeah that's it and i was like no well there's like this other aspect.
50:15
Like I'm, I'm not always creative. Like I still like math and stuff or,
50:19
okay. Like I really value truth.
50:21
So I'm like a true seeker. And I was constantly like always trying to come up
50:25
with like, what's my identity's title?
50:28
Like, because I want to be able to tell people like when somebody says I'm a
50:32
pastor, I want to be able to do that.
50:34
But like, I understand this aspect of like identities, not within the normal confines.
50:39
But I think like, if you're truly pursuing truth
50:42
and identity and god it's so constantly evolving and
50:46
changing i think there are like we can name all these different characteristics
50:50
of identity but i would say don't get caught up too caught
50:53
up like this is advice for myself is like
50:56
don't get too caught up in trying to pick a title or
50:59
trying to find something where you can fit within a title of
51:02
something like musician or engineer or
51:06
something because there's so many different characteristics that
51:09
build up who you are that to like put it
51:12
in one single title like can
51:15
hurt you long term because you're like well I want to do this differently but
51:18
that doesn't really line up with what I've done in the past so I want to stay
51:21
on this track like you can create your own identity more than like what God's
51:27
trying to bring you on and I do that to myself so that's just like a thought
51:31
that I always have is like.
51:33
Don't have to explain my identity to anybody as long as i'm like confident in
51:38
it with god and understand there's all these different characteristics so i
51:42
can describe it to you but,
51:44
be i have to be careful for myself not to put try
51:47
and put a title so that way i can feel like what i'm doing is justified to other
51:51
people so that's like a a tip that i've kind of learned over the years because
51:57
then i've always been like confused like well i kind of don't know what i am
52:01
if i I can't put it into like a singular title because other people have that
52:05
going for them or whatever.
52:07
So I think that's a big thing is don't, don't worry about like right now,
52:11
if you're starting on this thing of identity, trying to figure out, Oh, what is my identity?
52:16
What title can I throw on? So I can go do all these things and like immediately
52:20
fit into what I think my identity should be based on a title.
52:24
I would say it's, it's so much more deep and complicated and complex and beautiful
52:29
that it doesn't need to be we don't need to simplify it for ourselves even though
52:33
it's really tempting i mean that's what i want to do all the time so yeah that's
52:38
that's really good i like that.
52:41
One point that really stands out to me just looking in the history of my life.
52:47
Is when i tried to be an identity to fit to something it always caused disruption
52:55
in my life but when I just was what I really am, things changed.
53:03
That's all my stories of my relationship with God and the crazy adventures that
53:08
were impossible to come about all came from that navigation with the identity,
53:12
and it didn't fit any mainstream thing.
53:15
It was a journey, and that made it more exciting to want to know more, and it's hard.
53:20
It is hard, but it's a different kind of
53:23
heart it's a heart that keeps drawing you into more of
53:26
it because it's wow god is talking
53:29
to me god is interacting with me god is doing
53:32
this and then you learn to let go you know
53:35
one of the big things is letting go of the lies about your identity like we
53:40
believe lies oh i'm just a grasshopper it's a bigger problem than me that's
53:45
a lie so we believe lies to actually mask the identity we're supposed to be. And it is so satanic.
53:54
And if you really look at it, Satan's only after one thing.
53:57
If I can keep you from discovering who you really are, I can control you.
54:04
Isn't that what slavery is? I'm going to control who you are and change your
54:08
identity so I can have power over you.
54:12
And Jesus said, I came for freedom's sake to set you free.
54:18
We were created to be free, and free means to walk in your identity.
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Free doesn't mean do whatever you want. It's walking in your identity,
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which actually becomes more challenging, harder, but we crave it,
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and it's what we're really craving.
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That's the meaning of open source. It's a good place to end it.
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I'll just say I did not see our metaphor going this direction.
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I really thought my iPhone side was going to come out on top,
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but I feel like I was pretty wrong. but it's just a metaphor.
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Anyways, hope you guys got something out of this conversation.
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We appreciate you tuning in. Until next time, keep the faith and stay in the fight.