Latest / The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell / #18 - Impactful Architecture, Travels in Patagonia, and Designing a Balanced Life With Gabby Zanutta

Transcript

#18 - Impactful Architecture, Travels in Patagonia, and Designing a Balanced Life With Gabby Zanutta · The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, y'all?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Seeking Authenticity.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Flint Mitchell, and I get absolutely psyched by having conversations with authentic people that I admire about the things they value.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Their stories and perspectives don't just make me smile, laugh, and think.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: They inspire me to wake up earlier, listen better, focus, and work harder, and help make me a better version of myself.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's my hope that sharing these conversations through this podcast might do the same thing for you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, I talked with Gabby Zuda, an architect who studied at the University of Kansas.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I met Gabby in high school through soccer, and wasn't surprised when I found out she walked on to Kansas D1 soccer team.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: She was always extremely competitive on the field.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: But also kind and open as a person off the pitch.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Having not talked for years, it was fun to reconnect and see how those character traits have stuck with it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Also impressive is seeing those traits paired with her incredible work ethic in her current career.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's an impressive combination.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Being kind and thoughtful, yet still relentlessly competitive and hardworking when the time is right.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Here, we talk about her first couple years working out of college and the way she has seen that architecture can be a vehicle for serving others.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Likewise, we talk about her passion for traveling that stems from having family in Italy.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the balance in life she finds from being out in the wilderness.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that's just a couple hours away in the Sierra Nevadas or in extremely remote locations like Patagonia.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoyed listening to Gabby's perspective and excitement.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you will too.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_06: And I was at the base of Cerotore, which is like the three peaks, and there's this huge lagoon in front with floating icebergs in it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_06: And I it was perfectly clear, not a cloud in the sky.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I was like, this makes everything worth it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_06: For me, I'm like, okay, this is what works for me.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_06: I'm outside, I am moving, I am breathing, I am not on my phone.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, that to me is what that balance or that what that equivalent of like slowing down and detaching or breathing looks like.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_06: I wish that the dialogue could be changed from like, do all these things to get here to be like, do enough for you to be healthy and be sustainable and continue to live sustainably as opposed to like perfectly.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for doing this with me, Gabby.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate you taking some time out of your day to talk with me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: There are quite a few topics I'd like to get your take on, but to start, I'd really like to hear about your entry into architecture because it's a field I really don't know much about.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about what attracted you at the beginning and how the experience has been so far.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_06: Well, realistically, I don't think I always saw myself like going into architecture.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_06: I sort of just happened, which I know is like kind of a sad excuse, but um I think kind of looking back through uh growing up, like I was interested in Legos.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_06: I had every single Harry Potter Lego set built.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_06: I like had a train that my mechanical engineering dad helped me set up so that it would actually go around all the buildings.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_06: And from like a very, very early age, I was very interested in building things and more specifically like buildings themselves.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um, um my family on my dad's side is actually from Italy, and so growing up, I would go to and from Italy uh fairly often to see family, and I would, you know, have one of those point and shoot disposable cameras.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and you know, as I as I got more responsible, one of those uh digital cameras and most of the pictures that would come back would be pictures of buildings.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_06: It wouldn't be of like my cousins or food, it would be mostly buildings.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_06: Subconscious.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, so sort of looking back on this, um, it kind of makes sense for like how I ended up where I did, uh, though I didn't really realize it until like more recently.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but I think it was my going into my sophomore year of high school.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Cal Poly has like an architecture summer program.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember hearing about this from a family friend or something, and my parents being like, you don't know what you're doing in college, like all you ever talk about is soccer, like choose something, like go do this in the summer, like just do something.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_06: And I I ended up going, and it was they sort of set you up on the in the dorms, and um, you get to be with a bunch of other kids around your age, and so I was like doing like a mini college thing, and I was so I was taking classes and I was staying up until one or two in the morning working on projects during my summer break, and I loved it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, so this this is something that sort of clicks if I can like stay up till you know one or two in the morning on my summer vacation and doing classwork.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_06: So some sort of from there it kind of took off.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I sort of just like never really looked back and just chose something and went with it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_06: And so far it seems to fit fit pretty well, but yeah, yeah, TBD.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of the just how easy it was, like how easy it fell into your not necessarily fell into your lap, but how easy it was for you to work on it.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_06: And it was something that I was excited about.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_06: And um, I really love working with people.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_06: And so uh in architecture, you work primarily in the studio, and that means it's basically a huge room with a bunch of your classmates.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and and when you go into the workplace, it's the same thing.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_06: You have studios, and your coworkers are all within the usually a fairly large room, and you're working on the same project or or different projects, and you're collaborating and you're talking all the time, and you're seeing these physical 3D models, and then you know, into the computer, um, and you're talking and creating, and it's just this environment that is really exciting and inspiring and creative, and so you're just bouncing ideas off of other people, and so a combination of sort of creating something that's fun, and then being around people that you can make those things with, and um so yeah, I think that was probably the the biggest, the biggest draw for me.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was I like the uh the explanation that it was both a combination of what you were working on, but also the environment that they both kind of made it exciting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you think that either part of those plays a more of a role in why you enjoy doing it?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, I I think the the people aspect I don't know, it's so hard to say.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, you always hear people say that like their coworkers are one of the biggest reasons why they love their job, and I think that it plays a huge role.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but like I guess like combination of creativity and and working with the right people, and I guess I gotta say maybe maybe it's 50-50.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_06: I maybe the people are more important than than the you know than the work you're doing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_06: Like um, I maybe then like you know 70-30 or something, but I you know, I've always liked working with a lot of people and the you know, you want to be around good people when you do cool work.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_06: So I think that's the people are probably more important.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_06: I I'm gonna change my answer.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_06: The people are probably more important than like doing something creative.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're the people you spend probably the majority of your life with, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: That's yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: The reality for most people in the workforce is the people that they're surrounded with at with at work, or they probably spend more time with those people than anyone else in their life.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's very sad, but true.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's very sad.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you better like your coworkers because it is kind of a sad thing to say aloud, but it's it's true.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_06: You're not wrong.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any projects that kind of light you up when you think about them?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: The past projects, or maybe projects that colleagues have done that you really wanted to be a part of.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_06: Damn.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um I can't I can't think of anything specifically.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um I work in healthcare projects right now.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_06: That's my main focus.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_06: And I think in general, every project that you work on, um, especially in healthcare, feels like you're really doing something that is benefiting other people's lives.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_06: And so I would say maybe something that lights me up more is like the healthcare sector.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_06: I also think that like um education, um, working on schools also feels very um, it makes me feel very fulfilled because I feel like I'm positively impacting people.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I'm creating spaces that either like help people learn and and process information and places that save people's lives or give them some sort of hope or some sort of peace when they're recovering.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um spaces that like especially in very depressing scenarios like cancer centers.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um, how can I personally try and positively make this experience better for this person who's going through something like so terrible?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I wonder if you know No, that's that's fascinating.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I like how you personalize your work with with I mean it's completely valid too.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: What you're doing is physically creating the spaces that these people are gonna exist in.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it totally makes sense that I mean from my perspective, right, right, having no experience in architecture, I you know, buildings just kind of are buildings, they're just there.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: They have but they all have thought, right?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's all a thought process as to how people should be able to wander around, or or maybe the what the central aspects of it are.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be curious to think to hear if there are any specific examples within those scenarios, like building a school, is there anything that comes to mind as far as what would make it better for students or or in a hospital, what would make it better for hospital patients?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_06: Well, um I mean, yeah, there's the obvious question, the obvious answer is like yes, of course.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_06: There are definitely many things that would make someone's experience better.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um I'm trying to think of, let me see, there's uh there's this building, I think it's in DC, that is a school for the deaf.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_06: And um, you have to think about this in terms of all right, what what are senses that most people have?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and how do those play a role into the environments that we inhibit?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_06: So for example, when you are turning around a corner in your office, you can hear somebody on the other side.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_06: Hopefully, most of the time you can hear them coming.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_06: And so you know, like, okay, like they're they're right close to the wall, like I need to sort of give them space.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_06: But if you can't hear that, like you could run into someone.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_06: So something as simple as turning a corner becomes more difficult.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_06: So this building um eliminates those blind spots, so they'll either use um glass or like have a curved sort of approach so that something as simple as like not running into someone isn't isn't an issue.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_06: Um that's fascinating.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_06: Same thing with like an elevator.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, like you'll hear a ding, right, when it comes down.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and usually and most elevators now they have like the button that lights up that lets you know that it's coming down, but um, they purposefully made these elevators like have um some sort of light indicator to let the person know that the it was working properly and it was coming out because they can't hear the ding.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so certain things like this.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um, also sign language is obviously how they primarily communicate, and that means that you need to be facing or somewhat your body posture needs to allow for um interaction that is very visual.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_06: And so the seating is arranged in like curved forms so that people can um view and like have that very visual conversation, and so a lot of these corners are eliminated, therefore, also because of that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so yeah, I mean that that's like a the these are different kinds of communication and and just living, I wouldn't say, oh, I would say challenges that um I didn't even think about as someone who is just fortunate enough to be able to hear properly.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think I think things like that are really, really exciting.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: Um and like I mean it sucks that like people have to um be put in a position where they have to figure out how to exist in a world that is catered towards people who can hear.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_06: So like if there's any way that we can make that easier and you know set an example for this is a good type of architecture that allows everybody to inhibit it comfortably.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_06: Like, like that is, I think that's something that's very exciting.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've I I've never thought about any of the things, those things, especially because I'm you know, I can hear well, but it's fascinating to kind of to think about the possibilities, right?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Of the possible things you could change about any given building for any given disability.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_06: I so I looked this up, it's called, oh my gosh, I'm gonna butcher the name, Gallaudet University, and it's a school in Washington, DC.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's a school for the for the deaf, or if you're a bird?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh, model secondary school for the deaf.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_06: It's a four-year high school um for hard of hearing students.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_06: So that is a a project that um I can I can send you a link later if you want to see, but it's very open planned, so you can see everybody, so you can you know when people have entered a space, and um, but it's it's a lot of challenges that like have or have existed forever and we're sort of just now like implementing.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'd be curious if there are any projects that you found most difficult in your work, whether it's it whether it's while studying or or in your work afterwards.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_06: Um I'm trying to think that's a good question.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_06: I think the most challenging thing in general, um, which is sort of like a like a duh, is you run out of time.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_06: And that was a big thing they put an emphasis in school.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_06: There's there's a saying that you never are finished, you just run out of time.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_06: And so architecture, especially when you're in school, has this reputation of um people living in the studio uh because you eat, live, and breathe everything.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_06: Architecture.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_06: We had like air mattresses set up, um, small, you know, little coolers and refrigerators, hammocks.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_06: We had food.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_06: Everybody had like a shelf of ramen.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_06: So you would literally eat, you'd like microwave your food, you would maybe go home for a shower, not during finals week, you wouldn't.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you'd be up, you would have an all-nighter at least uh every final project.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_06: And if you didn't, then like you weren't trying hard enough.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so it it was it was definitely a uh it's a time crunch always.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_06: And so obviously, like you always want to perfect something, you always want to like, oh, like if I had more time with this building, like I would love to create this space.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_06: So um I think it's sort of getting a project finished to the best of your ability within the time crunch that you're given, because it's just there never seems to be enough time.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I love that quote.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're never finished and just run out of time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yep, yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty heavy to be honest, if you think about it out of the context.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, honestly, it's heavy in general.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like life.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_06: I remember uh there so the architecture building, at least Ryanwood School, the University of Kansas, like was one of the only buildings other than the um one of the libraries and probably engineering buildings, because engineers work all the time too, and that was open 24-7.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_06: Like it was open on Thanksgiving.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_06: I was there on Thanksgiving, like there was definitely like it just never closed.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and it the bottom kind of floor um has like these windows that face out to the main student drive.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_06: And um there were a couple times when professors would like be walking by at like 3 or 4 a.m.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_06: and see like blue light coming from underneath the building, and they like would call the dean and they're like, I don't know, like electricity's on, like something's going on, and like the dean went and inspected, and he was like, Oh no, it's just like our students watching movies while they like finish gluing their models at like four in the morning.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_06: So it's just this sort of like well-known fact that like architecture students never sleep, and I think we sort of I would go as far as to say is like you kind of carry that um into the industry, into the industry a little bit where you just like there is more sleeping, kind of, um, but the sort of work, you know, well, it's you're living your work life, it's a creative endeavor, right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was I was electrical engineering in college, and it's uh it's interesting to hear that perspective because in engineering generally you solve a problem, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And right when I when I box the answer that it's done, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and there are aspects, right, when you're building a project, you're putting a lot of pieces together, then it gets a little more of the creative side, and and then it could be and then it becomes a time crunch to just kind of produce your your best product project, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part in engineering, it is pretty it's pretty final when you're done.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: You have a solution, you have an equation, you have a you have a product that you know that beeps or analyzes or whatever, has an output.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and no, I like that kind of aspect of it's both engineering, but it's also got that tough part of creativity where it's never really finished.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: It could always be improved a little bit.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, definitely.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I grew up both my parents are mechanical engineers, so they were like, Oh, math is awesome, like this is great.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, I don't understand it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but they were like, there's always an answer.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_06: Like, that's the best thing about math with this, is that there is always an answer.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_06: And I chose the industry that does not always have an answer, and in fact, it has like a thousand of them because it's different for every single person.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_06: So I think that's that's also like like it completely is, and I think that's sort of the fun and like the challenge and the frustration, um, however you choose to look at it, depending on what day it is, about like what your client um like wants.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_06: So uh and what this person may like is gonna be like the opposite of what somebody else likes.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but then you factor in money, which is just a whole other factor, but you really have to like cater in, okay, like what am I like obviously how do I solve the the problem at hand, but then like who am I serving as far as a client?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_06: So um, and that answer is the right answer, is what the client wants that solves this problem.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um obviously we we need to be able to like guide them and and show them examples of what's possible and what's correct, and you know, I mean, and and what's legally required for especially like healthcare buildings, but um you know it is very very opinion-based, so there there isn't that right.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: So X equals Yeah, a big aspect of it then is actually getting this maybe kind of ties back into your one of the reasons why you find excitement in it in it, which is connecting with the person and trying to understand, it's about asking the good questions that understand what they actually want, because that's the best way for you to provide the best service.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely, definitely.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, it's very much a a people profession for sure.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is it common then behind the scenes after you've talked to the the customer for the architects to fight over how to do it right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, everybody has like their own take on on what's right and what's wrong.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um ultimately it's sort of like I mean, we're on the same team, and so we need to represent the firm as a whole because we're all operating together.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_06: And what is the best design that we can pitch the client?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_06: I think more often than not, it it's sort of like oh we have this, it's yeah, it's definitely a collaborative piece, and everybody has like their own expertise.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's what's so interesting, too, about architecture is that there's it it covers this huge umbrella that covers so many different components of building.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_06: And so everybody has like their own perspective and and their own their own insight, and based on the Project that that they've worked on too in the past, like they bring in this experience, like, oh, like in this last project we did, we really screwed up with the with the drop-off zone, like whatever, whatever that may be.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_06: And so they bring that insight into that project that they're working on with a different group of people.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_06: And so um, I would say more often than not, it's sort of like figuring out how to meld all these different um experiences.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_06: Experiences, yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and usually I would say that there's typically a option or two that the architects really like and we're like definitely voting for and like rooting for this one when we bring it to the client.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and and usually like we're able to find a good middle ground.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but I I would say at the end of the day, the team definitely comes together and like we all have to be on board with this, and we all sort of have to like bring this to life and how can we make this the best version?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So totally, and I and I I appreciate that comment about how each person kind of brings a different experience or different perspective, which you know, just going back 10 minutes and talking about that building that was built for the deaf, you know, if you have a person who even is just aware of that, maybe they bring that experience into all their future projects in some form or fashion, just because it's part of work they've done or experienced.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's interesting.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_06: Like you asked, like, how did I get into architecture?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_06: And sort of looking back, I'm like, I've always been like a team player, like I've grown up playing soccer, like that was my first, my first love.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_06: Like my played since I was five, and like you know, you you you're on a field with 10 other people, and then you have to collaborate to get the same end goal, literally.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so so uh it it sort of it sort of carries that over.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_06: And um so yeah, I think that yeah, working with a bunch of different people and um collaborating to to have uh this outcome and everybody brings different things to the table very much.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_06: I can see that that correlation, it kind of makes sense why I am where I am now too.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any experiences or little quarks in the in the architecture field that people wouldn't know about if they weren't in it?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_06: Oh man, um is there what we yeah, there's probably tons.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's it's so hard to to say because I'm in it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_06: So um pro yes, the answer is yes.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um I think people would be surprised at um depending on the type of project, the length that they take.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think obviously most people when they're driving by, you know, driving downtown, they see a construction project and it's going up and they go, oh my gosh, like they've been working on that since last year.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: And the secret is that building came into existence eight years ago and before it even started going under construction.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_06: So I think probably one of the biggest like surprises is just how long things take.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_06: Obviously, this depends on the type of type of building.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um the you know, if it's city work, it probably takes a little bit longer.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but you know, this depends.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_06: And and but I think that was probably my biggest shock was was uh getting into the workforce and being like, oh, like this this is the same plan that I was looking at yeah two years ago, and it's not gonna be built for another like six.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_06: And you're like, wow, like that's eight years, holy cow.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's like you know crazy.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds frustrating to be honest.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's I think I think it's I think it's kind of um I think it can be frustrating working on a project for so long and not seeing anything physical happen for such a long time.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_06: But I think that's sort of the beauty of working um in larger firms is typically there are are more projects going on.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_06: So you'll like hop into a project that is in that latter construction phase while you can see a project that is in those very early stages.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_06: So I think you know, obviously it depends on the firm.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_06: I've been very lucky to like be in a place where people encourage you to to sort of hop in at those different stages, and so you can see like the breadth of work and you're not waiting six years for something that you have your hands on to be built.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: So um I think you know, I think that's really important for anybody in starting any kind of career is getting that wide breadth of experience.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_06: But it can be frustrating, yeah, when you're when your building that you've been working on forever, like is still just a piece of paper.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_06: But um architecture for you, that is no, I that's true.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's a that's a great quirk.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I would have had or perspective.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I had no clue.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense really looking back on it.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm big fan of woodworking and and and smaller, much smaller product projects, orders of magnitude smaller than buildings.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the the planning phase is always substantially longer than you than you imagine it will be.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: So taking that to the scale of a building, I can't really picture.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, oh definitely.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, but then when you look at these things, you're like, oh my god, this thing is massive and it has to safely protect thousands of people.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_06: You're like, okay, well, I'm glad you took the time to really do this right.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, it's it's twofold.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_06: Like totally.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Have you had any experiences yet where you've then been able to see because you're, you know, a couple years out of college.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen any projects that you played a role in start to get built?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, actually.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I I ended up working now at a firm that I interned with um when I was finishing up my my grad year.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and when I was an intern, I helped uh work on a Kaiser project in Dublin.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_06: And um I remember like I was only on site for like one day a week, um, but this was in the construction administrative phase.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_06: So we're working uh side by side the contractors, and as construction is taking place, we're solving little quirks that come up.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_06: I remember like doing a shower drain drawing, and it's like this something so simple and small.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but like I went out to the site and I tracked down where it was, I had to make sure it was the right depth so that the water could drain properly, because they had poured the concrete without um accounting for the fact that the water needed to drain.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_06: And that building is completely built and it is open now, and they fixed the drain.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um it is not that exciting, but you know, when you're when you're in school and you're sort of you're like, okay, I'm doing this pretend thing I'm getting a degree in something that I'm hypothetically gonna do, it's nice to like sort of see something that you have done on paper actually actually happen, um, even if it is just a shower drain.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: I bet, I would bet though, that going into an architecture interview as a as a student, they ask you some question relevant to you know why you're doing it, you go, because I have a shower drain.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, but here's the thing is like everybody can remember their first shower drain.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_06: You know, something that they did.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe it's a door, maybe it was it's some little quirk that they were like, ah, I remember that that drawing, it sucked, but then it came to life.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_06: And so, you know, I think that's it's a fun little quirk.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_06: It's not that exciting for most other people, but for me, I was like, oh, you know, there we go.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think is so impactful about seeing the results of of something you work on in in you know in the physical world?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think in general, uh like just doing something and spending so much time on something that you care about, um, and then having some form of that being successful.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I think seeing a physical thing that you have designed or built or or struggled over come to life after you spent those hours um and like time and like frustration over and seeing that come to life.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's sort of that that physical representation of everything that you've done has uh has been successful.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think if that answers your question at all, but like I think that's sort of like why it is it feels so good, is because it it is literally a representation of of everything that you spent all this time on.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um and it and when it works, like that is like the best feeling.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fun, it kind of makes me think actually when you talk about it not just being the realization of all the hard work you did, but also how to phrase this, the time you spent doing it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've had similar realizations when I've worked on something.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for instance, I'm I have a writing project right now, and I'll look back and read an element of it, and it won't actually just remind me of what I thought, but it'll remind me of where I was writing it, or the people out who influenced me to write it, or the people that were with me.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's cool that you kind of you give a more personal feeling then to buildings or whatever it is that people build, because it's not like if you look at a shower drain, it's not necessarily just the drawing behind it, but it was also like some intern spent a couple hours, you know, sipping a cup of coffee and in and drew that.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then it came out.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_06: No, I mean, I think I mean going back to like why I I think going back to sort of the people being one of the biggest perks about working in whatever business or for me architecture.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, we when you spend that time and uh that effort and like screw-ups and stuff like that with a group of people that you um care about and then you see something come to life, you're like, I remember like when we spent like those two weeks just like banging our heads about trying to figure out this like one corridor and we finally figured a solution out.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_06: You have those those experiences sort of built into that that project, and you're like, oh my gosh, like you know, I remember, you know, staying, you know, whatever other issue or problem that you you overcame with that group of people.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think it makes that project feel so much, you know, more important or significant to you than than had you just done something yourself, or I don't know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I think there's something to be said for um having a solid group of people and working on a project together that makes makes that building feel a lot more meaningful.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it actually going all the way back then it kind of gives a different answer to the question which is more important, the project or the people, because it kind of shows that the project is a conglomeration of the people.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's the building is kind of a body of the people who worked on it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's a representation of of like all that work.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_06: And it's sort of, you know, a representation of the people that worked on it too.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, everybody pulled in their different experiences, and and um, you know, it's it it is sort of a a culmination of all the correct things learned and um like best practices for each person, you know.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_06: That person that uh said we're never gonna do a drop-off like that again, and they fixed it this time.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_06: They can see it in that building.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that that's like a pretty neat way of looking at it too.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: With these kind of experiences then in mind, you know, it sounds like you found some facets of architecture that are really fascinating to you.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see any of them taking you in a particular direction?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because like you said, it's a really broad field.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like there's probably a lot of avenues you could take.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_06: Honestly, I I yeah, probably it's gonna take me in multiple directions.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_06: I really hope so.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_06: I I hope that I don't get um, you know, stuck in stuck in one lane.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think there is such a huge range of what architecture means and just the types of architecture alone, it just feels endless.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_06: So I I'm hoping that I can experience a large range of that and work with a bunch of different people.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_06: I have no idea what that looks like.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but it's also kind of exciting to know that like there are so many avenues, and and I'm not just sort of like this is gonna be what I'm doing the rest of my life, and it's always gonna be the same.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_06: I I think um it's really nice to know that there's gonna be a lot of change.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um that may be scary for some people.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like I I don't really know what like the world of like accounting looks like, but I can't imagine that you know, not to not to like disaccountants.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_06: I'm sure I'm sure they they must love what they're doing because I it has to take a certain kind of passion for that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_06: But like independent I I um I I don't wanna I don't want to get like canceled or anything, but you're whatever, it's too late.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_06: But um I think that there's such a variety and a range in what the the profession has to offer.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_06: I hope that it pulls me in a in a bunch of different ways.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_06: Like really, really interested in that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_06: And I hope it in ways that like I can benefit people, you know.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_06: I hope that um what I'm doing always is positively impacting people's lives.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_06: And and I think in general architecture, like that's the main, the main goal behind it, other than than to like provide a place to inhibit, is to like provide a place for people to happily and peacefully, especially now, peacefully inhibit, you know.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: My question to that then would be it's interesting to hear that uh a lot of your maybe fulfillment or pride is kind of driven by a result that serves other people.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely is there a specific reason for that?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there is there are there do you have experiences in your past that have kind of made you realize that that's an important thing to have in life?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I've you know, I've spent a fair amount of time in hospitals recovering from numerous knee injuries through soccer, and um, I actually my three younger siblings, they all have dyslexia.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_06: My youngest sister is interesting from ADD, and so I've seen them sort of go through the public school system and like be frustrated about like they just have a lot more energy and they don't learn the same way as other people, and so like how does that environment impact them?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and what does that mean for like their education?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_06: Like, what what would have been some things that they could have had in their classroom when they were growing up that would have made them calm down a little bit more?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um something, you know, and and so I think it's just like a culmination of the people around me and and my experiences, and and I think in general, like you know, I I do feel just very lucky to have gone to school and gotten a degree and to have a job right now when a lot of people don't, and I just I feel like it is my responsibility as a human on this planet to give back in some way, and if even if that's as small as creating a building that is a better space for someone, then like so be it.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_06: Like that's that's what I'm gonna do.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you know absolutely it's makes sense.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's a very grateful perspective to have, it's one I appreciate very much, and I think that's a kind of a cool way of looking at it because once again, I have no real take on construction or architecture or any of that.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fun to hear the perspective because every field has this, right?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like when you make when you make the statement about uh accounting, there are all these accountants out there, they're going, Well, I never thought that architecture was so interesting, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, I don't blame that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know anything about accounting either.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Please No, but it's cool that you because it's probably true that in the large majority of professions you can find something in your own experience, like you're saying your your siblings, what would have helped them as far as studying in school.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have the perspective of I can actually build that, right?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: I can help establish something that helps them.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's cool.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, just trying to do my part, trying to be a good human.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_06: That's it, that's it.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_06: Don't come at me with accounting knowledge, or maybe two, maybe I need to know more about it.
• 40:13
  unknown: Jeez.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Something else that I'm kind of interested in is uh when I was kind of going to your Instagram, is you're a huge traveler.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: And sorry to like completely jump to a different topic, but what please.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what yeah, go for it.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Where what are what have been some of your favorite trips or maybe when did you start traveling?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like you was be when back going to Italy as your kid.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so I mean, I've again just been very lucky to have that as an experience growing up.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, the only way to to see to see family um back in the day, you know, was was to hop on a plane and and go and see your see your cousins.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_06: And um, so I mean, a majority of my like young travel experiences was was just seeing family.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_06: And so I wasn't necessarily like hopping on a plane and and exploring Pisa and like going to Venice and stuff like that.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_06: I did a couple of those things, but mostly it was to like family houses.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but even then I had that experience of like getting on an international flight and what that entailed and what that meant, and like so I from a very young age I was sort of conditioned into like, okay, like you can only pack what you can carry, and like if your luggage gets lost, which it has, make sure you have an extra set of clothes, and you know, just just things like that.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think from that perspective, uh, it's just sort of been ingrained in me, like that this is how to travel, and traveling is fun and it's great, and you get to go eat good food and see loved ones, and from there it kind of just just took off.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think I must have been like 19 when I first started like traveling on my own and funding my own trips, because you know, like I real I didn't have a big paying job in high school, and so I couldn't afford to to send myself places.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_06: But as soon as I sort of got into college and got internships and I could start saving up money, and it honestly all of it went directly into traveling.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um and I like when I was 19 summer before sophomore year college, I like went back out to Italy um by like with one girlfriend and went to Spain and France, and that was sort of like the start of me really like going out and exploring, and I've done a lot of solo trips.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I studied abroad when I was a junior in college.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_06: I spent a semester in Barcelona.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and when I was there, um I did a ton of traveling just by myself, and I was like, I found like a you know 20 euro ticket to London, like I'm just gonna go and stay in a hostel and meet people, and that's what I did, and it's so easy and it's so fun, and and you just the more you do it, the more the more you want to do it, and so um, which is also good, and yeah, and the easier it comes.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_06: And um, so that's it's great.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I think let's see, last year, 2019, um, I went to Patagonia and I went to Iceland, and those are probably two topics very far away from each other, very far, not at the same time, two separate times.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_06: I was gonna say, I know you're you know what that would be a lot of fine.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_06: It's been half the trip in the air.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_06: But um, no, those those were my two two big trips.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um that's crazy, and it was it was amazing.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_06: So I did that, was my first full international backpacking trip um as far as like Patagonia, and that was like, you know, full pack your tent up.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_06: And I I did a lot of backpacking locally, but that was the first time I'd done it.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um More international.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_06: And that was amazing.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: What got you into backpacking as like as far as camping backpacking?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so my parents backpacked a little bit when they were like young adults.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and so there's actually a couple pictures of me when I'm a kid, like on one of those like kid backpacks in Yosemite and stuff like that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_06: Um, we didn't do it much as a family because growing up all I did was play soccer and I have three younger siblings.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_06: So when everybody was playing for a team, it was just like in between fields, and so a lot of traveling didn't really happen then, but I love being outside and I did a lot of camping growing up, and so it was sort of like okay, well, like how can I camp for a longer period of time and see more things?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I got a backpack.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's sort of just you have a favorite moment from Patagonia.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_06: Ooh, okay.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um, yes.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_06: Um there was uh towards the end of my trip, um, I wanted like there's two sides of Patagonia.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_06: There's the Argentinian side and the Chilean side.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and we spent about a week in each.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember the last couple days, it was like super rainy and foggy.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_06: I went at the turn of the season, it was becoming fall, and so it would the colors were beautiful, everything was red, and it was gorgeous, except that um you couldn't see anything for the last couple days.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_06: And I I remember being like, Oh my gosh, I can't see the mountains.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I know I'm standing right below them, but all I see are rain clouds, like this is like such a drag.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_06: And um we went to sleep, and the next day we woke up and everything was clear, and I was at the base of Serotore, which is like the three sort of peaks, and there's just huge like lagoon in front with like floating icebergs in it, and I it was perfectly clear, not a cloud in the sky.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my was like this makes everything worth it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_06: Like, so that was that was an amazing, an amazing moment.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I gotta go back and see the rest of the mountains that I didn't get to see.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um, sometime in the future, hopefully.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you will.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's a fantastic memory.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it was it was great.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I love those ones, especially because they're so impactful when you look back on them.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you take a moment, you really can see it vividly.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: In your head.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it it was it's yeah, it was great.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_06: No more words other than that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_06: But um, yeah, I have a a lot of trips hopefully coming up, but right now, obviously, we're being smart and sheltering in place, but you know, hopefully in the near-ish future, I can resume traveling.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you choose where to go to next?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_06: Ooh, honestly, like it's it used to be pretty random.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um I do try to get back to Italy uh to see family frequently.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I'd ideally I'd like go back every year um and explore you know slightly different places whenever I do go back.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_06: Um so there that's sort of like a consistent thing.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um but uh right now I'm trying to choose kind of places that are tending to become more popular as like social media sort of like blows them up.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm trying to go before like I don't want to say that people destroy them, but until you know, I'm I'm kind of kind of and I'm I'm hoping a lot of these places are sort of implementing um rules where you need permits, so they're limiting the amount of people there, which is which is smart, but I'm also trying to go before they start permitting places because it gets really difficult to start to try and apply for one of those.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_06: Like the lottery in Hap Dome.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so actually I did Hap Dome um last fall.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and we got the last day that the cables were up.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_06: It was so hard to just to get a permit.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but yeah, I mean, so the next place I want to go, I want to go to Machu Picchu, but I want to do the Inca Trail.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_06: So it kind of loops that in.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_06: But it's also hard to get permits for that.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um what is the Inca Trail?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think it's okay, I I would I don't want to get checked on the internet, but um, I think it's like a three to five day uh hike and um I guess it's two to seven, you can I guess two to seven days, but there's a bunch of different valleys around there um that sort of loop in Machu Picchu or or end in it, and it's it's beautiful.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_06: It has it covers a terrain that is that is just incredibly wild and very like very much untouched.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_06: Um so it sounds like traveling for you.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like traveling for you, then there are kind of two main aspects.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: One is kind of this aspect of meeting new people, connecting, which sounds like a pretty big part of your life, per part of your personality is you value connecting with others.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then this other side, which is kind of wildness, the outdoors.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Patagon is about as wild as it gets.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, just about.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_06: It's interesting whenever I I and I love to travel in cities too.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I mean, that's where the people are, that's where the amazing food is.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I I love going to doing a good city trip.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_06: But for the most part, every place that I've gone, um, even when I was like in Barcelona, I would do stuff in the city and then I would do a hike.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_06: So I get out of the city.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_06: So for the most part, whenever even if I do like a two or three day stint somewhere, one of those days is outside, like elsewhere out of the city.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_06: So I definitely try to loop both both of those things back in.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you do that in your day-to-day life?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_06: I do a lot of hiking and camping on the weekends.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_06: Um right now, probably a little more than before, as the restrictions sort of get changed.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but I think one of the main reasons that I'm living in California is because I have access to so much so close by.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I think so.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_06: When I went to school in Kansas, that was something that was really challenging.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_06: Was I was used to like being, you know, a 30 to 45 minutes from yeah, from the ocean.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_06: And I was like, okay, like I'm gonna go for a hike, but all I'm gonna do was walk on a flat piece of land for a while.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_06: And and there are some beautiful places, but yeah, absolutely.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_06: They're definitely they're definitely fewer and further between, so they're harder to get to.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_06: Whereas um, you know, in especially in the Bay Area in California, you could be in your somebody in two hours, you could be at Tahoe, you could be at the beach, you drive all within yeah, maybe three hours.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, depends what side depends what side of the park you're going to.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um to be fair.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_06: But you know, like it's it's uh definitely played a role in where I choose to live.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um which you know, and it's it is expensive to live out here, which is the the con, but the pro, there are so many pros.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, no, absolutely.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I tell people that San Francisco is one of the greatest cities in the world for everything outside of San Francisco.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes, a hundred percent.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, the city, not too much, but everything else.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, nothing is wrong with San Francisco, but it's definitely there's enough things wrong with San Francisco.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: There are great things too.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fantastic city, don't get me wrong.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_06: So there are definitely, yeah, that's true.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_06: You're you're not wrong.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's nothing neutral in San Francisco.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are great people and there are really bad things going on.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you gotta you gotta get point.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, for everything outside of San Francisco, it's great.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_06: You're right there.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_06: That is a true statement.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_06: No, but I mean, like, I have I have yet to surf and snowboard on the same day, but that is obtainable here, and it is uh I that is gonna be something that I do hopefully soon.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so like you say you can say you do it.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: My mom lived in Boulder and she's she said the big the one there was ski and then water ski in the same day.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_06: I will say like Colorado, I it's I've spent a little bit of time there, it's beautiful.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_06: If they had an o if Colorado had an ocean, I'd live there.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: What's so important about then?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, kind of going back to your traveling and then in your in your in your free time, what's so important about getting out into nature and getting out and exploring?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_06: Oh man, um, besides like all the beneficial things about like movement and you know the sun and all all the health things aside, like all the health things aside.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's it's just it's a good place to sort of like clear your head.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I definitely for the most part when camping or hiking, like I already don't have service, but it's nice to like completely detach, and I think it's a lot harder to do that now when you're like living at home.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, especially like working right now in this environment where you're always working from home, like you're always on a piece of technology, and so uh it's a lot harder to to get away from that and to like take a step back and slow down.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm someone who's like go, go, go, and so like going outside and hiking and just like being outdoors forces me to like take a step back and breathe, and I think that's extremely necessary for for like a healthy balance.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, yeah, so I I think that's probably the the biggest reason why um outdoors and and moving or you know, hiking or camping or whatever.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a I think it's a perk that not a lot of people appreciate because they don't go to places where they can physically disconnect.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, I think those places are slowly going extinct.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um it kind of it makes sense maybe tying back the perspective you have on architecture or maybe the industry of architecture, which was kind of epitomized by that quote you're never finished, you just run out of time, right?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: That it inherently means that there is no break.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is go until you have to stop.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, definitely.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_06: And yeah, so I want to make sure that I I'm forcing myself to slow down a little bit because I mean it it kind of circles back to like life is short, like you know, I I'm hopefully like balancing it right and working hard when I'm at work and then enjoying nature and being outdoors and slowing down when I'm not.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, you know, sort of a trying to make that balance and and work out.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: Balance is a funny one because everyone talks about getting a balance in life, but it's not actually a tangible thing.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: No, not at all.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: The only times you know that your life was balanced is balanced is when you look back and you go, wow, that was a really balanced time.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: But like in the moment, you're never like, wow, I'm just this is so balanced.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_06: No, not at all.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_06: And I feel like now, too, there's like 10 things that I need to like have in order to be balanced, and like maybe that's like a perfect morning routine, and I need to incorporate meditation and like and that and all of these things are amazing.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_06: And like, believe me, in an ideal world, I would like do all of them, um, and like eat healthy and exercise every single day or almost every single day, and and like crush it at work and then crush it with family time, and then have enough time by yourself, and then journal and then read.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and like all of these things, like I think the the understanding needs to be that like some of these things are done a majority of the time, and like that is balance and balances in all of them.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_06: It's like just kind of keeping enough things up in the air absolutely while you can.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_06: But at the this idea, yeah, the idea of balance, I think is I think it's like I don't want to say it's toxic, but it's definitely not achievable on a on a permanent or maybe it may spectrum.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: First off, maybe it shouldn't be, because that's kind of life.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: But second off, I it I like how you point that out because it kind of delineates this hypocritical aspect of I don't want to say like the wellness industry as a whole, because that just tags a lot, but it's this idea that you have to like you're saying, like everyone should wake up and meditate, and then they should do breathing exercises, and then they should journal, and then they should and that inherently is the go, go, go, go, go mentality that those things are trying to kind of prevent or or give you a moment away from.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's it's tough, yeah.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_06: And I feel like now more than ever, it's like you you see you're seeing people give you examples of what that looks like, and and but I think it it's so important to like kind of remove yourself and be like, okay, this is what worked for this person, but like I have to sort of find out what balance means for me.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_06: And maybe that means that like I go camping every other weekend, and you know, I work out five, four or five times a week.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_06: And like, if that is what balance and that is what is healthy to me, okay, like cap that and like don't try to do too much more, yeah, or or continue learning what works better for you, yeah, and improve upon it.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's maybe this is the toxic element, is that it's a form of comparing yourself to others, right?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: You see other people's lives, definitely, and yeah, and they tell you all these ways that they've achieved balance.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: And kind of from this perspective that we're getting is a kind of bullshit.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: If they're doing that every day, then they're probably not balanced either.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I don't know, maybe I mean, yeah, and I think that's the thing too, is like I so along with like the slowing down.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_06: So for me, what works for that is like being outside.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I like definitely tried to meditate because it you know it's very it's very calming, and like I have a lot of friends that do it and they love it, and I just I can't.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_06: And maybe that means that I'm not doing it right or I need to try more, but I walk, I take a walk every single day at noon for at least 30 minutes.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_06: And for me, I'm like, okay, this is what works for me.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_06: I'm outside, I am moving, I am breathing, I am not on my phone.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, that to me is like what that balance or that what that equivalent of like slowing down and detaching or breathing looks like.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but I think I think it becomes like, oh my god, I need to do all these things because like this high performer CEO does these things and I want to be like him, so like I need to like do all these things to match what he's what his routine is, and then feel bad because they don't work for me.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_06: And then feel bad because they don't work and I can't keep them up and I can't take a 10-minute cold shower.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I I just like I just I I think like all of these, I mean I want to bash these things because like no bash them, screw it.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_06: They no, I think they work like for so many different people, and like you have to pick and choose like what works best for you.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_06: Same thing with like you know, eating.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I have some friends that are extremely gluten intolerant, but I love pasta, so I'm gonna eat the pasta and they're not going to, but that is just something that works for me and it doesn't work for them, and so I think I think it's the if we could just like remove the pressure from like everybody needs to do all these things, you know, pick and choose what works for you, that would be so much healthier.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_06: I think everybody would be a lot happier too.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_06: So just just my my two cents.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, first off, it sounds like it would be a very hard to be a gluten-free Italian.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't work.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Second off, just I I I totally agree.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a huge pressure associated with performing well in life and and when you're given a million ways that other people's uh other people have succeeded, and they I mean sometimes it really is just you need to do it and not like resist it.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the times it's you know, you people try to install in install 12 habits into their life at once and then they fail at all of them and then they feel bad about it.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this aspect of not becoming perfect, like it's kind of this is kind of a discussion on being perfect, right?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a discussion of not aiming for perfect, it's just like being better than you were.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_06: Right, exactly.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's sort of I mean it applies to like working out and being healthy too so much.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, so many people like are like diet, diet, diet.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I need to lose 10 pounds, and they work super hard and they lose five, and then they can't get the last five, and they're like, I give up.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_06: And it's it's this idea of like you just need to keep doing what doing.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_06: You just need to keep working out and you keep eating well, and like eventually at some point you'll reach a weight that is healthy for you, and it's it's you haven't arrived, and you you have to keep working at that, it has to be a continuous like choice, but but it's sort of this this um I think mindset of like working towards something to be healthier and not necessarily like dieting until I'm this goal weight.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_06: It's um I think right now, especially like with social media, you see like these end results or these products or this person who like did really well or got to this got to someplace and now they're happy because they had all these things line up and they did all these this checklist.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_06: But I think it that's like a really toxic thing to see because you you don't see all the points where they're like you know up and down and like they're probably not still happy where they are because a lot of like high performers too, they like want more, which is typically how they continue to get more.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_06: So um I wish that the dialogue could be changed from like do all these things to get here to be like do enough for you to be healthy and be sustainable and continue to like live sustainably.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_06: Sure, no, as opposed to like perfectly.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's characterized.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think you it sounds like that is actually a pretty important aspect of your life because you know, we we were talking about work and it's sounds like you have a perspective that is take it as it comes and work really hard at it, but just try to do better than you are doing and then see where it takes you.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: When I asked that question about where do you want it to take you, it wasn't the answer I want this promotion and then I want to do this type.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, yeah, I I'm gonna try it and I uh using it as an analogy to being healthy, but in this context, it would be like doing the best work I can, right?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then just seeing what it takes.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_06: I think as long I I do think that as long as you are definitely trying and trying to better yourself and health, work, relationship, whatever that is, um, you will be happier than is if you reached a point.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I I think people probably the same thing with like, you know, going back to health.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_06: You're like, okay, like I know I'm gonna be super happy if I lose 10 pounds.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_06: And once you get there, you're like, oh, well, I mean, like, this is great, but like I'm not this isn't this isn't everything I expected it to be.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_06: I I think it's sort of looking at things in that long term of like, okay, what is something that like I can continuously work on and that type of lifestyle and that mindset is gonna be what makes you a lot happier than if you just like got somewhere or just did something and sounds like you're talking about effort.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, effort.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's like putting good effort, you're gonna be happier.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_06: I I definitely will say that though.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_06: I think the more genuine effort you put into things that are like good for you and you care about, um, which aren't necessarily the same thing, but like is is is important.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't want to take too much of your time.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I just have kind of one one last question.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_06: Go for it.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: If people could could walk away from this podcast with one lesson from kind of this discussion on, I don't know, I guess trying your best every day.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think that would be?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_06: I think I think it would be to not get stuck in a path that you think you need to follow, um, based on either what other people tell you or tell you from around you or or whatever.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's sort of stay true to to what you are interested in and what you believe in, whether that be like helping people or creating something or working with good people, and um and it and your path isn't gonna be like a straight line, it's gonna be a lot of ups and downs, and things are gonna change and sort of look forward to those changes.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I personally I like the idea of my career changing, and so I I'm looking forward to that, and I think you sort of have to have to embrace that, and so yeah, I guess embrace change and don't expect something to look exactly um like you expected it.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: I want to thank Gabby for that wonderful discussion.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's always fun for me to get a peek into other industries and careers, and I loved hearing about how buildings can come to life for the people who design them.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I enjoyed was listening to how minor differences like rounded corners and different-shaped meeting rooms in a building can make it substantially easier for a deaf person to navigate.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting thought experiment.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: To wonder what small changes I could make in what I'm doing, that would make a substantial change to the experience people down the line from my work might have.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: Likewise, as someone whose favorite place to be is beyond the range of self-service, it's always a blast to listen to people who feel the same way.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the most important takeaway I received from Gabby was her message on sustainable effort.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about checking off every box that so-called successful people appear to do.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's about creating realistic, sustainable habits that work for you, not others.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's about putting in real, honest effort to better yourself today.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then seeing where that takes you.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me wonder where that kind of effort could take me.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it does for you too.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you like this episode of Seeking Authenticity, that's freaking awesome.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: All I want to ask of you, the listener, in return for the time and effort I put into making it, is that you take a deep breath.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean really breathe.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Breathe so that it stretches out your shoulders and your back and your chest and pushes out your stomach.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: No more of these shallow, bullshit breaths.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're barely keeping you alive, my friend.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: And after you exhale, go out and soak up today.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the end, your actions and the way they interact with the world and the people around you right now are all you have in this life.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: So be authentic with them.