Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #240 Phones & Family Life with Dr Kathryn Modecki

Transcript

#240 Phones & Family Life with Dr Kathryn Modecki · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now. And now
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  Speaker 1: here's the stars of our show, My Mum and Dad.
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  Speaker 2: Gooday, it's doctor Justin Colson here, dad to six kids,
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  Speaker 2: author of six books and the founder of Happy Families
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  Speaker 2: dot com dot You at school holidays around most of
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  Speaker 2: Australia at the moment, and Kylie and I have taken
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  Speaker 2: the opportunity to spend some family time doing family stuff
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  Speaker 2: with the kids, which means our usual podcast is not
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  Speaker 2: going the way that it typically would. We hope that
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  Speaker 2: you're getting some time out with your family as well. However,
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  Speaker 2: we wanted to keep a podcast going in some fashion
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  Speaker 2: and so we're sharing some highlights from great conversations we've
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  Speaker 2: had with people over the last six months. If you're
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  Speaker 2: new to the podcast, please continue listening because some of
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  Speaker 2: the highlights that we've got for you are just so
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  Speaker 2: rock solid and so fascinating. Like today, we're talking at
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  Speaker 2: a parenting and Perspective interview series that I recorded last year,
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  Speaker 2: and on episode one twenty one, I spoke with doctor
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  Speaker 2: Catherine Medeki and she shared with us the results of
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  Speaker 2: a study on the effects of phone usage on our
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  Speaker 2: children and families. I started asking Karen about the inspiration
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  Speaker 2: behind the study.
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  Speaker 3: So this actually began as a partnership with the ABC
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  Speaker 3: for a National Science. This is response from parents across Australia.
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  Speaker 3: These are more than three thy five hundred responses and
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  Speaker 3: parents reported on their different ways of using their smartphone,
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  Speaker 3: the amount of time they were using their smartphones and
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  Speaker 3: texting and using social network sites. They also reported on
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  Speaker 3: conflicts in the family around the parents' smartphone use and
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  Speaker 3: displacing time with the phone. Excuse me to stay at
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  Speaker 3: lacing time with the family to do their phones, as
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  Speaker 3: well as the parent child relationships.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's one of the big things, isn't it, Catherine.
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  Speaker 2: You know people will say, and I've certainly been one
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  Speaker 2: who said it, one of the biggest challenges we have
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  Speaker 2: with our smartphone use is not that there's anything necessarily
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  Speaker 2: wrong with using the smartphone. It's what it's actually interfering
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  Speaker 2: with or displacing. If I'm staring at my phone, I'm
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  Speaker 2: not engaging with my child exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And in a lot of ways a smartphone has come,
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  Speaker 3: I would argue, to sort of represent something beyond what
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  Speaker 3: it's actually doing, so you know, it sort of represents
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  Speaker 3: the attention sometimes maybe we're not getting, or that you know,
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  Speaker 3: closest we're not necessarily feeling, but absolutely, and it's really
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  Speaker 3: you know, there's been a lot in the media in
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  Speaker 3: particular and certain scholars sort of arguing that the smartphone
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  Speaker 3: is problem, problem, problem, But as a parent, you know
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  Speaker 3: that it also allows us to get our work done
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  Speaker 3: and allows us to find support, find information, So it's
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  Speaker 3: it's not just one thing. And so the goal here
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  Speaker 3: was sort of to say, well, well, if this is
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  Speaker 3: a problem, we have the type of data that will
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  Speaker 3: absolutely find it. So we have this huge sample, we
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  Speaker 3: have the measures that are being used in studies. Let's
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  Speaker 3: take an exploratory approach, being open to the possibility that
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  Speaker 3: this might not be a problem, that this might be okay.
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  Speaker 3: And so we started with over a thousand ways of
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  Speaker 3: looking at these data, these different variables, and we soon decided,
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  Speaker 3: as you're saying, that really the story here is about,
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  Speaker 3: you know, whether or not the smartphone time is displacing
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  Speaker 3: time with my family or causing conflicts with my family.
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  Speaker 3: But what was surprising is overall the pattern really was
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  Speaker 3: a positive relation, meaning more time across twelve different measures
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  Speaker 3: of smartphone use was associated with better quality parent child
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  Speaker 3: relationship self reported by parents, as long as there wasn't
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  Speaker 3: heaps of displacement of time with family, So as long
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  Speaker 3: as this is not becoming a huge source of avoidance
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  Speaker 3: of your family or a huge source of conflict in
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  Speaker 3: the family, more time, if anything, is associated with better relationships,
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  Speaker 3: certainly not worse.
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  Speaker 2: Now, this is really curious to me. When I'm thinking
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  Speaker 2: about the central aspects of what makes relationships in the
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  Speaker 2: family work, I think, well, something that I say all
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  Speaker 2: the time is that, just like dollars of the currency
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  Speaker 2: of our economy, connection is the currency of our relationship.
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  Speaker 2: And to me, it seems that a smartphone is going
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  Speaker 2: to interfere with connection. I might be in the middle
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  Speaker 2: of a conversation with my wife or one of my kids.
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  Speaker 2: The phone rings. I get it, you know, there's a
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  Speaker 2: text message come through. I just remember that I've got
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  Speaker 2: a respond of that email, and all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: my attention diverts from that beloved family member to that
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  Speaker 2: phone that I can pick up and cradle and caress
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  Speaker 2: and touch and get a different kind of feedback from,
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  Speaker 2: very very quickly, you know, and I get to be
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  Speaker 2: efficient and productive and do all those things. Now, surely
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  Speaker 2: that's going to be well, your research is suggesting no,
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  Speaker 2: But I would have thought logically that's going to interfere
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  Speaker 2: with my relationship.
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  Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about it. So interference with your relationship
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  Speaker 3: is different than smartphone use. And so one of the
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  Speaker 3: issues is that in the literature, you know, the title
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  Speaker 3: will say smartphone use is associated with you know, problems,
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  Speaker 3: but if you look at what's being measured, it's that
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  Speaker 3: disruption which you're talking about. So two things. First of all,
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  Speaker 3: there's different ways to be using your phone. So you
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  Speaker 3: can be texting or on a phone call and you
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  Speaker 3: can still have eye contact. You can still be sort
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  Speaker 3: of giving that attention if your child's on the sports
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  Speaker 3: field or on the playground, while still dealing with other
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  Speaker 3: things that would normally take you physically away from the child.
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  Speaker 3: So we did find a difference in terms of immersive forms.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're just scrolling social network sites and very
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  Speaker 3: very immersed the effect is not as positive when compared to,
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  Speaker 3: for instance, phone calls. So that's one. But two, I
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  Speaker 3: think you know, parents are in this position where they're
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  Speaker 3: dealing with norms right, So they we're with our child,
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  Speaker 3: but the outside world also expects our ready attention, and
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  Speaker 3: so it's sort of navigating that. It's sort of choosing
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  Speaker 3: your time, I would say, in terms of when your
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  Speaker 3: child needs you. But I'm also going to counter with
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  Speaker 3: the fact that exactly a warm and supportive parent child
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  Speaker 3: relationship give good communication with your child, and a parent
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  Speaker 3: not bringing stress over into the parent child relationship. And
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  Speaker 3: there are ways that smartphones can actually support that, right,
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  Speaker 3: So I can reach out to family, I can find information,
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  Speaker 3: I can sort of help myself cope in other ways.
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  Speaker 3: I can physically be with my child rather than being
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  Speaker 3: at work. But it's also, as you say, it's navigating, right,
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  Speaker 3: and so sorry, if it's an emergency call, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm telling my kids, this is only going to be
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  Speaker 3: a minute, it's only work, and then I will come back.
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  Speaker 3: So it's navigating. I would argue those norms. But again,
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  Speaker 3: this finding also is when we're keeping that displacement from
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  Speaker 3: key time with your family at a lower level.
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  Speaker 2: We'll continue the conversation with doctor Catherine Medecki right after this.
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  Speaker 1: It's that Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 4: US screens creating tension at home Tweens, Teens and Screens
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  Speaker 4: is a weobinart of God Families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
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  Speaker 4: Bye today at happyfamilies dot com dotu slash shop.
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  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 2: Poor Parent who Just Wants is now. My name is
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  Speaker 2: doctor Justin Colson, and we're continuing in conversation with doctor
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  Speaker 2: Catherine Medeki, a psychology researcher who looks at the way
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  Speaker 2: our technology use interacts with our families. So I'm really
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  Speaker 2: curious about how there is that positive relationship between warmth
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  Speaker 2: and smartphone usage, so long as it's not interference. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: So interference seems to be the key word. If I'm
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  Speaker 2: doing something and I'm the duration of the call is
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  Speaker 2: lengthy and I'm being interrupted and it's getting in the
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  Speaker 2: way of my relationship, that doesn't have any redeeming value
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  Speaker 2: or quality at all. But generally, if I'm using my
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  Speaker 2: phone more, I can still be warm to my child.
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  Speaker 2: And I'd love for you to just explain how that
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  Speaker 2: might work in a practical sense.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, first of all, let me step back and
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  Speaker 3: say these are cross sectional data. Yes, yes, it's kin
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  Speaker 3: one hand. Yeah, and so at one hand, this was
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  Speaker 3: speaking to arguments that really we're sort of getting under
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  Speaker 3: my you know, grilling my onion, so to speak. This
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  Speaker 3: idea sort of phones are to blame, which of course
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  Speaker 3: suggests if we just took away the phones, everyone will
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  Speaker 3: be a better parent, which of course we know is
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  Speaker 3: not the case. So on one hand, I'm not saying
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  Speaker 3: that if everyone gets a phone or uses their phone
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  Speaker 3: worse somehow they're going to be a warmer parent by
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  Speaker 3: any means. But I think the reality is we use
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  Speaker 3: our phones for a variety in a variety of ways
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  Speaker 3: across the day. It's embedded in our lives, and to
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  Speaker 3: the extent that we're sort of negotiating that effectively in
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  Speaker 3: our family system, it's certainly not taking away from the relationship,
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  Speaker 3: if that makes sense. I would also say, in terms
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  Speaker 3: of we know that, for instance, moderate amounts of online coping,
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  Speaker 3: so using the phone to get information for short term distraction,
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  Speaker 3: to bring you down when you're stressed, for reaching out
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  Speaker 3: for support, we know in other research that that can
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  Speaker 3: be really effective for coping with stressors. So on one hand,
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  Speaker 3: I suspect having that connection is helping me be a
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  Speaker 3: better parent. I think also these parents are also probably
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  Speaker 3: navigating very well or better than others in terms of
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  Speaker 3: that family dynamic that Okay, when I need to be
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  Speaker 3: on the phone, you know it's not speaking and not
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  Speaker 3: wanting to spend time with you. I need to do
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  Speaker 3: this and then I'm back with you. If that makes sense.
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  Speaker 2: It sounds like what the study is doing is giving
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  Speaker 2: credit to parents for being able to be selective around
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  Speaker 2: when they're using their devices and when they're not. So
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  Speaker 2: you use the example before. If your child's on the
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  Speaker 2: sport field, you don't have to pay attention to the
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  Speaker 2: cricket game for the next four hours. You can just
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  Speaker 2: look up every now and again and clap your hands
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  Speaker 2: and say well done, well bold, and then get back
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  Speaker 2: to your emails or the book that you're reading. Like
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  Speaker 2: you said, it's not just smartphone technology. If we got
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  Speaker 2: rid of the smartphones, parents would still be reading books,
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  Speaker 2: they'd still be watching television, they'd still be distracted with
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  Speaker 2: any number of other things. The other thing that I
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  Speaker 2: was going to say is just this idea of it
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  Speaker 2: being cross sectional or correlational research. So there's a correlation
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  Speaker 2: between warmth and smartphone use. That is, it could be
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  Speaker 2: argued that parents who are using their smartphones more tend
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  Speaker 2: to be warmer, but it could also be that warmer
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  Speaker 2: parents tend to use their smartphone more. In other words,
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  Speaker 2: if you're the kind of person who is social and
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  Speaker 2: amenable and nurturing in relationships offline, you're probably going to
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  Speaker 2: be doing that online as well, not just with your family,
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  Speaker 2: but with your friends and with that social network that
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  Speaker 2: exists inside the device.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point as long as the displacement
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  Speaker 3: is low. So actually, if we just look at time
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  Speaker 3: with parenting so presently, we found almost no relationship, which
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  Speaker 3: is interesting because that's not sort of what you know,
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  Speaker 3: we've taken as law that you know, straight smartphone use
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  Speaker 3: was associated with problems in the family. But you're absolutely correct,
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  Speaker 3: you could interpret that two ways.
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  Speaker 2: So when you look at this study and sort of
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  Speaker 2: pull out the real take homes, what encouragement would you
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  Speaker 2: give to parents when it comes to the choices that
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  Speaker 2: they're making around having devices active and usable at the
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  Speaker 2: same time that family members might be around.
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  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you know, this is something we're
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  Speaker 3: all dealing with, and I'm sure you say this to
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  Speaker 3: parents as well, that I don't think guilt and parenting
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  Speaker 3: go together. Well at all. I think it's counterproductive. The
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  Speaker 3: reality is smartphones are in our day to day life, right,
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  Speaker 3: and so letting ourselves off the hook about you know,
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  Speaker 3: what it's about is as you would be saying to
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  Speaker 3: parents as well, it's about warm relationships. It's strong communication.
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  Speaker 3: It's reducing the stress spillover with kids. It's being available
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  Speaker 3: at times that are ultimately you know, necessary to be there.
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  Speaker 3: So it's making smart choices, but also taking care of
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  Speaker 3: yourself as a parent and communicating with your kids and
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  Speaker 3: you know, partners those around you why you're on the
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  Speaker 3: phone when you're on the phone, and making it clear
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  Speaker 3: that it's not due to sort of not being interested
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  Speaker 3: in your child, and making it clear you are available
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  Speaker 3: at key times.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah great, I love that. So just to summarize, make
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  Speaker 2: sure that I didn't miss anything. There are sometimes where
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  Speaker 2: you really want to make sure that you're available and
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  Speaker 2: get the phone out of the environment so you can
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  Speaker 2: connect and can concentrate. Sometimes is simply more important than others.
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  Speaker 2: But secondly, make sure that you utilizing you devices in
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  Speaker 2: a way that is restorative and generative for you, so
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  Speaker 2: that when you put the device down, you can actually
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  Speaker 2: be at your best for the people that you love
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  Speaker 2: the most. Absolutely that's doctor Catherine Medecki. You can hear
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  Speaker 2: our full interview on episode one hundred and twenty one
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  Speaker 2: of the Parenting and Perspective podcast series, and tomorrow Kylie
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  Speaker 2: and I back with a new episode of a Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families podcast. We look forward as well to giving you
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  Speaker 2: a whole new bunch of episodes as soon as the
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: school holidays are over. If you're enjoying the podcast, we'd
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: love it for you to jump onto the Apple podcast app,
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• 12:32
  Speaker 2: are the way that other people find out about the podcast.
• 12:34
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  Speaker 3: Especially the five star ratings.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Our executive producer is Craig Bruce, and we
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: just love doing everything we can to help your family
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: be happier. If you'd like morro fol about how your
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: family can be happier, keep listening to the podcast or
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: visit us at Happy Families dot com dot a you
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  Speaker 2: ye