Latest / Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD / Autistic Traits in Adults You Never Realized Were Signs of Autism

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Autistic Traits in Adults You Never Realized Were Signs of Autism · Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD

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You have arrived. Welcome to the Aspy world.
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Here's where we talk about anything and everything ASD in
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an upbeat and informative way. And now here's your man on the
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spectrum, your autism ambassador, Daniel Morgan Jones.
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What's going on? Hello.
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I don't know where I am. What's this place called?
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Something Green Meadow Golf Club.
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Cool. They don't want to let me into.
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Golf. But I've played golf once, so
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it's terrible. Anyway, so my name is Dan.
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Anybody know who I am before I tell you guys?
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You know what? I am.
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Oh, cool. There you go.
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Oh, yeah, my man over here. Good.
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All right. Cool.
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So my name is Dan. My online pseudonym, or my
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online business name is the Aspy World, which is quite a really
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rubbish name really. But it was something that I
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started by accident and it cascaded into my career, which
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was, Yeah, completely not thought out.
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So, yeah, apologies for the name.
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So what I do and who I am, I am a an autistic man, a Welsh
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person, so he will. I was diagnosed in 2013.
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I was 26 years old and had gone my entire.
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Life just like struggling like, you know, pills supposed
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pleasure to know what to do. But you know, I'm living on
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Anglesey in the 80s and 90s, a crazy place to try and get any
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kind of diagnosis of anything. So it did take me that amount of
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time to get an official diagnosis.
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But I have a diagnosis of originally Asperger's syndrome,
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ADHDOCD, dyslexia, a bunch of other complex issues.
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But. I it.
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Didn't really stop me doing anything that I wanted to do,
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which is really cool, which I'll talk about shortly, but I'm an
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international best selling author.
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I've got a book out called Autism for Adults.
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You pretty much get it anywhere that sells books on Hay House
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Publication and Penguin Random House who did an audio version
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of it, which is really cool. If you want to listen to me talk
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about my own story, that's kind of cool too.
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My YouTube channel which is my main kind of outlet for creation
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of content, which is where I started, which I'll tell you
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about in a minute. Has won awards as well.
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So I'm, I think I'm nominated for two awards this year as.
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Well, can't remember what they are, but I do have a bunch of
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other. Awards.
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But that's all important, right? The awards aren't the problem.
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I'm just telling you like who I am or what I do.
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I'm an international keynote speaker as well.
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So just go back from Canada, put on my first event there.
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That was kind of amazing. It's all about changing lives,
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making impact. We're not about making kind of
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money in this business about making an impact, right?
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So we have to create impact because there's so much
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potential that people always leave on the table.
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People leave potential everywhere.
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So that's what I kind of do trying.
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To 10X the lives of autistic individuals but trying to also.
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Just just why a spark? In in the world and in the
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community. So that's kind of what I do in a
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in a nutshell. But why do I do it is because
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again, I went 20-6 years just literally fumbling about in the
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dark. Like, like what is life?
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And then I was like, I finally I get this diagnosis and I'm like,
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oh, OK, but I was like, what? I've gone. 26 years just
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surviving right now. It's time to.
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Thrive, but I could also teach. This information like so I went.
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Went from being a very very kind of like unconfident kid to being
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a. Quite a confident adult.
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We travel around the world doing kidding out speeches and writing
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books and all this kind of rubbish.
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And then I was like, OK, I can transpose this, I can actually
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help. People right because we want to
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make an impact. It's all about making an impact
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of life and so I've got. ADHD which gives me.
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An. Immense amount of like
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hyperactive energy. So I'm really sorry if I'm
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talking excessively fast. If anybody misses anything, just
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be like, Dan, what on earth did you just say?
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And I'm going to give you an example of my ADHD, right?
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So this is really funny. I'll start with a really funny
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story. So, so that's me that's done.
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How's it going? All the ASP world, so you can
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actually find me on any single social media platform available.
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Literally all the obscure ones like Lemon 8 and stuff like
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that. You can get me on if you just
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search the ASP world so ASP i.e. WORLD so the ASP world you get
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on any social media platform. I upload 180 plus pieces of
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content a day, which is. Blog post.
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Podcasts, videos, short form videos, long form videos,
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everything you can think of. So we're trying to make it
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accessible for everybody, right? So not everybody learns in the
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same way. So we have to be on every
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platform in every format. That's how you need to exist.
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Massive impact creates a huge amount of action, OK.
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So here's a story about. ADHD.
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So I wrote a book. Right.
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And you're thinking, Dan, you just said you were dyslexic.
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And I'm like I am. Like super dyslexic, like like
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really dyslexic. And my handwriting is terrible.
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It's like it's worse than this. And then?
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You'd be like, well, how did you write?
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A book, and it's a good question.
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I've actually written two books. The first book was.
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Easy, because I had a ghost writer, right?
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And it was all about theology, so nobody cares about that.
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So my second book was. A A book about autism called
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Autism for Adults. It was like a.
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Practical guide to live in excellently on the autism
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spectrum. Great title, I didn't come up.
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With the publisher did because they're weird.
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And this is how I wrote it and I want to I want to give you an
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example. About it and this is how.
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Like my mind works and how everything works before I get
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into all the other bits and pieces that I kind of published
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out and what I'm going to do 3 misunderstood traits of autism.
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But this is really interesting. So autism and ADHD have a very
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interesting. Relationship, right?
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That causes kind of like. You want to do loads of things
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all the time, many different areas.
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Of your life, but you also. Really want to hyper focus on
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one thing. So this causes a big conundrum.
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So I'm like and also I'm dyslexic.
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So like, you know, so a publisher comes to me and says
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here's a bunch of money. Write a book and I was.
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Like, OK, cool. The money's not really
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important, but. It was a big.
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Publisher. So I was like, OK, Hay House.
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Huge book, right? That book publishing.
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Company. So I was like.
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Cool big big book. Be everywhere.
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Impact, you know, again, trying to make impact in people's
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lives, trying to turn X yeah, so you get it.
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So then I was like, OK, cool, what do I need to do?
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They will say, oh, we're. Going to give you 6 or seven
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months to write this book. And we need to, we need the
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manuscript by November. And this is like, I don't know
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when this was. I mean, February something.
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I was like, oh, OK, cool. So I was like, cool, I can do
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that no problem. So I leave it and I'm like I.
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Can write a book course I can. And then procrastination kicks
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in, ADHD kicks in. I'm like, I can write a book.
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Died. I need to write this book.
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So I sit down at my desk and I'm like, I just can't sit still.
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I can't. Sit still for five seconds like
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I'm constantly doing something something different all the
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time. But then I'm.
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Also like I really need to focus on something but I also can't
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sit still. To write the book.
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Because I'm not really good at spelling, damn it.
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So I'm like thinking, oh, I'm a huge failure.
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The book cover shows going to be like, there's no manuscript,
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there's the whole thing. So then I was like, come on
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down. You've got to think smarter, not
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harder, right? And I have this whole thing
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about problems. I was like, this is a problem
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that needs solving because it's not really a problem, right?
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It's. Just a potential.
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Towards a solution. Really good tip to remember
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there's problems we don't do. Problems we have potentials
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towards solutions, so think about life that way and you'll
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have a lot more kind of return in success.
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So I'm like, OK, how's the solution?
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Going to work and one of the things which is most interesting
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is the way artistic individuals learn right so we have in
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scholastic education of schooling the school comes from.
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Scholastics. So Scholastics.
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And academia, we have the absence of mass.
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You know what this means? That when people teach stuff.
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They say here's a textbook. Of what an engine looks like.
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I'm going to teach you how to, you know, plug this engine into
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a car. It's like how if you had the
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thing in front of you, this engine in front of you, you'd
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have a bigger chance of learning it because the appearance of
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mass would be in front of you, right?
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It's kind of like how you learn to do something if you haven't
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got hands on experience. Crazy, isn't it?
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So the the way the artistic. Brain works is that we're always
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accumulating mass, which is called a lot of.
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People would say. My son hoards rocks.
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He likes, he likes. Rocks.
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Every time I go to the beach, he collects rocks.
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He's autistic and he's a room full of rocks.
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It's hoarding, I think. It's not hoarding, it's the
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abundance of mass within his learning environment, right?
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And this is how we learn. We, we, we surround ourselves
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with the things we enjoy because it's not just collecting some
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things, because they enjoy the things they're collecting.
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They're learning about it. They're.
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They're they're realizing the the appearance of mass and they
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go, Oh yeah, I get it. Every bit of this rock is
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digestible into your brain. That's how we.
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Learn SO. Knowing this, it's called
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tactile. Feedback right when you have
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something in your hands. Tactile feedback.
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I get it, you know it's. A bottle and I can feel it and
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sense it. I understand it because it's
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there in 3D space. So now it's like, OK.
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This is how I learned things. OK, I was saying this earlier.
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Less than sorry. The world population reads less
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than one book a year on average, right?
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Less than one book a year. I don't know how it's possible,
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but that's the specific average, which is pretty diabolical,
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right? So I was like, I want an
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advantage on people's I want. To be able to 10X my ability to
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do stuff, I need to digest books.
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By like 6. Books a month, right?
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If we do six books a month, I'm like.
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Way. Ahead of the game, right?
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So I was like, OK, let's do that.
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Then I was like, Oh yeah, can't read for buggery, damn it.
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So audio books exist, right? Cool audio books love it.
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Sit down, sit down, listen to an audio book is like chapter one.
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Oh man, I've already I was just bored straight away.
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So I was like, OK, that's not going to happen, but.
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Then I was like no, I really need to.
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This is how I learned. I learned to.
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So I did two things I. Took the the audio, the podcast,
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the. Thing or the book and I was like
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I increased the speed of playback right.
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You can do this on most technologies.
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So I increased the speed of playback to times 2.
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So I was like. It's everyone.
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I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that.
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Because I'm like, that's my brain's going crazy, right?
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So I was like, cool, I can get it.
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But I, how do I, how do I digest that information?
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If I sat down and just, it wouldn't be very exciting.
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So I was like, I'm going to go for a run.
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So I'm going for a run and this is just audio book.
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And what's happening is something quite magical.
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I'm getting tactile feedback from the the, the feedback I'm
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getting from the, the floor hitting my, my feet and then my
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my knees and then I'm and I'm ingesting this.
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It's kind of like. This experience if I said to you
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like, hey buddy, how's it going you'd.
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Be like, all right. But I thought, hey buddy, bye.
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How's it going? It punched you in the shoulder.
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You'd be like, wow, I'm all right, but I really.
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Felt that you'd understand that I said hello because I'm giving
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you tactile feedback with audio simulation, right?
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So when I'm running, I'm like, yeah, I'm getting.
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So I'm like listening to books and I'm like learning all this
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stuff. So then I was like if I reverse
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this. Maybe I could write my book this
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way. So there's me like November, you
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running outside with my phone like.
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Trying to write a book. And I'm like, ah, you know, it's
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not happening because I'm running.
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I'm trying to type and the wind's blowing everywhere.
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So then I was like, maybe I should?
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Talk to my phone because we are iPhones are amazing, right?
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Changed my life. IPhones, iPad's amazing.
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They have this voice dictation software you can like speak to
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the phone and then the phone will just magically put words on
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the on the screen, which is great and it's great there's.
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AI so it kind of like spell checks.
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For you as well. So I was like.
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Huh. OK.
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So if I go running, so I was going outside in the in the
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ring, so tap the one. But then like the wind and the
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rain, I was like, that's not going to happen.
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So I came home feeling kind of defeated.
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But still I'm like, I'm on to something.
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I'm solution based. Problem solving here.
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Then I realized. I have a treadmill in the house.
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So I'll just run on the treadmill every day for eight
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days, one hour a day. I wrote the book in two.
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Weeks, so I said to the publisher.
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I was like, I'll give you the manuscript in two weeks.
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I said you haven't written a word.
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I said give me two weeks. I said OK.
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So I spent 8 days running a. Treadmill talking to myself.
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It was great. And then I had the manuscript.
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Said it to the publisher and they were like.
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What do you know what's really interesting?
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This is really funny, they said to me, well, how did you
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research for the book? In the end?
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You know, the mechanism of actually writing a book is kind
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of bizarre, right? Running on a treadmill and
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talking to your. Phone.
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But it was quite fun. But it was a good.
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Example of how to problem solve. But they were like, well, how
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did you? Research it, I said.
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Well, I didn't research. It I know exactly what I'm going
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to say right? Like because they were.
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Thinking, oh you, how do you bounce like, you know, computer
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on a. Treadmill because and I have
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this big issue. Everyone interviewed me from
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magazines and television and podcasts and.
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Stuff They say, we're going to send you a list of questions.
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Done. And I'm like don't, please
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don't, please don't. Send me the questions, I said.
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Why? As well, if I can't answer the
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question, why are you interviewing me in the 1st place
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and my friend needs to prepare what I'm going to say like.
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What is that? About like no no no look BS
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like. If if you want me to answer a
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question, ask me the question I know the answer to.
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That's the reason you're asking me to be here in the 1st place.
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Same with the book. Like my friend was like I'm
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taking 2. Years to research a book I was.
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Like why are you writing it? You obviously don't know what
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he's talking about. You know what I mean?
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It's like, it's really bizarre. Like the the notion doesn't.
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So I could write a book a week like I literally could now
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because I've got the treadmill so.
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It was great. And so that's how I did it.
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So there's an example of how I used ADHD and our 10X did to
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write the book and that's how I did it.
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And especially looking at an obstacle.
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Like dyslexia, like how I supposed to do?
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This. Like how do I?
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Overcome Overcome it by creating problem based.
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Solutions. But you go, okay.
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We don't really have problems. Have solutions, we're going to
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figure it out and move towards that which is good and also.
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A really good tip and I was talking to my friends about this
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earlier. That like you always know
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you're. Moving in the right direction
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and you towards a goal, right? You're urging yourself towards a
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goal when you're coming across new problems and it comes from
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an old kind of like philosophical idea.
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If you stood still, you're not going to get any problems,
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right? But you stood still so you're
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not really going anywhere. So if you're moving in the right
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direction, you're going to cross new problems all the time.
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Kind of like me and my quest to figure out how on if I was
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supposed to write this book and. I don't know, eight months,
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which I did it in two weeks. So.
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That's how I did it. All right, on to the talk.
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That was just a preface, so it. Was just me, so I know.
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ADHD, so there you go. I love it.
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Love it. Oh, I don't.
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Probably do anything. OK, so I'm really.
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Professional and I don't have a presentation.
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And then another thing as well. That a lot of people.
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Say like send me your. Slides and I do talks all over
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the world. I'm going to Los Angeles.
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June 26th, this was so in a in a month's time going to Los
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Angeles to do an event called Vidcon.
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Vidcon's a big online social media event, right?
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And I'm doing a panel talk there about Watson University and.
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They always feel like here was the presentation slides.
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Before you came over and I'm like, I don't have any like why
12:36
would I want presentation slides like?
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There's nothing more boring than guy being like to.
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Take graph A, graph B and like everything they're.
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Saying is on the slide. I'm like, dude, I don't want
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eyes on that. I want eyes on.
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Me, because I'm going to be able to tell you.
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Exactly what I want you to know. Like it's so boring anyway so.
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In my very professional manner, I've wrote everything on my
12:52
iPhone and I'm going to go through it right now even though
12:53
it's to say fun did no presentation because it's a
12:55
similar one I did earlier so. If you if you booked to come and
13:00
see this today, this talk, first of all, sorry, second of all I'm
13:04
joking and second of all, you would have noticed that I
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prefaced it saying that the the three most misunderstood autism
13:10
traits. Or artistic traits, right?
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Which is really interesting because we have a a
13:15
disconnection between reality of what autism is and what people
13:19
perceive it as, right? Which is really fun.
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Because most of the time I'd say 90% of the 90% of the the
13:27
medical industry non autistic individuals.
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And that's fine. I understand because.
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It's all about helping, right? If we didn't have medical
13:32
individuals diagnosing autistic people and we'd all still be
13:35
sitting in the dark like I was. All in many years ago.
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So it's not a, it's not about like bashing the fact that
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there's less autistic professionals, but it's just
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about the matter of fact. Right.
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We have less autistic professionals, so we have less
13:47
understanding of true understanding of what it what it
13:49
is. So we have kind of like a
13:51
speculation of accumulation, right?
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Which is really fun so. I decided that I was I was
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looking at. Things from my viewpoint and
13:58
putting them onto my channel, my YouTube channel, which I grew
14:00
into a Facebook page, and it's also an Instagram page and all
14:02
the other places we exist on the Internet.
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And it was all about information and trying to like make sure
14:08
that what I was. Saying was relatable but also
14:12
like a an insight. Like a hidden insight.
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Sorry. Very itchy beard and and.
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So people always want to know like.
14:19
You know, what's this idealistic brain?
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So this this presentation or this this?
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Talk and we're talking about right now is more to do with
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kind of like. How people perceive.
14:27
What's going on and what actually is going on, right?
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And so the first one I want to talk about is emotional.
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Regulation. Funny, isn't it?
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People always say that like autistic individuals have no
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emotional regulation, which is almost.
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Correct, right. But they'll say there's no
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emotional regulation. And do you know what the word
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emotion, right? Do you know where it comes from
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is to strive from something called energy in motion, right?
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Which is a really interesting concept.
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And if you think about like energy in motion, what does this
14:52
mean? So autistic individuals or any
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individual that exists will have this experience of emotion.
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So we create. Emotions through energy.
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Emotion. So we'll feel a certain type of
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energy and then we'll put that into motion, right?
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That's where we get this word. And what's funny about it is
15:06
that people just know. This stuff right?
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It just happens like sightly. And you'll be like I.
15:11
Cry. When I'm upset or like I laugh,
15:14
you know, when something's funny or I smile, like honestly, I've
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got, I don't, I don't. Want to say what it is but that
15:19
thing like a resting something face where you just like
15:22
everything is. I'm like disgusted at
15:24
everything. Like I'll be sitting now
15:25
watching TV. Honestly, I'll be sitting on my.
15:28
Guest, my girlfriend will be like, what are you so angry
15:30
about? I'm like.
15:30
Nothing. But what are you talking about?
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I'm like, really happy. She's like, we've got a
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disgusting look on your face, like, Oh yeah.
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Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just my face.
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So my face doesn't match up because.
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I have no. Idea what I'm like my, my
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emotions that I'm putting through my face or my body or
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what I'm saying don't really match up to what I'm thinking,
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right? Which is really fun, obviously
15:49
makes things complex and confusing.
15:51
So autism is, is this right? It has this complexity where it
15:54
doesn't match things up perfectly to societal standards
15:56
of understanding what that is. And as society goes like this,
15:59
like I said, they have, they feel this.
16:00
Energy and they put it into motion and.
16:02
Then autistic individuals, they kind of look around and they,
16:04
they have no idea. They, they didn't realise that
16:06
this was a thing for autistic individuals can learn things,
16:09
right? We can learn to, you know, be
16:11
forced to make eye contact. Or we can be forced to do other
16:14
things like learn emotions like. Laugh when you're happy, ha ha,
16:17
you know? But you know, at the end of the
16:19
day. It comes down to computation.
16:21
Autistic individuals feel things way.
16:23
Deeper. Like way way way deeper.
16:25
So it's kind of like you. You get this one and say
16:27
autistic. Individuals can't feel empathy,
16:29
you know, they don't always like to.
16:30
Be in your shoes. And you're like, well.
16:32
That's not what it is. It's.
16:33
Kind of like this. If an an average person or a
16:37
typical person will will feel a set way towards someone.
16:41
Empathetically because they'll be like.
16:42
Someone explained the situation to them.
16:44
Why they're upset or why they're angry or happy or whatever.
16:46
And they'll be like, yeah, I get that.
16:48
Thanks for explaining it. Top dog.
16:49
And then they they get it. They they have.
16:51
This kind of mutual understanding of why this
16:53
person's upset and all this nonsense, Well, now if there's.
16:55
A person we're looking at me like.
16:56
What? You say something.
16:59
But I don't. Feel it.
17:00
I don't understand why you feel that way.
17:02
And the only way you can get them to understand that is so
17:05
you can say it's kind of like, remember when you've done this
17:07
and you felt that way and they say, OK, I get it.
17:10
And So what this is, is a is a kind of a self kind of like
17:15
discovery technique of where you go.
17:17
Well. A person can tell you how they
17:19
feel and you can really understand that because you
17:21
instantly. Go only I get I get how they
17:22
feel because, you know, I felt like that was.
17:24
What an autistic person needs to really understand what are you
17:26
saying? Like what?
17:27
Why you compute it down right? You were saying that you.
17:30
This do I have something that relates to?
17:33
This you need more time, right? And this comes down to another
17:35
condition called that lexothymia where there's a delay in the
17:38
understanding of how something kind of reaches your, your, the,
17:43
the connective kind of conversation flow right when
17:45
someone I don't know if you've. Had this experience but you told
17:48
an autistic person about something very very serious.
17:50
Like I lied to my girlfriend all the time and then, you know,
17:53
arguing about stuff. I'm like.
17:55
Wait. She's like what?
17:57
How much money did Home Alone 2 make She's.
17:59
Like what's not going to do? Anything.
18:00
I'm like, I started talking about Karen.
18:01
And then about and then about a week.
18:03
Later I'm like, oh. Man, she's right.
18:05
Yeah, I did make a mistake there.
18:07
Oh, man. And so it takes a longer time to
18:08
process because autism and it's kind of in its.
18:13
Real basic form is a communication issue, right?
18:15
It's it's a communication issue. And communication comes in all
18:17
formats and all forms all over the place.
18:19
It's not just like, you know, verbal communication and I get
18:22
it all the time. Like someone says something
18:24
like, oh, I don't. Know why'd you do that?
18:25
It's like, sorry man, I'm on the.
18:26
Spectrum, I just get you. What you could talk you're
18:30
you're not autistic. It's like, Oh my God, you know,
18:32
it's like that kind of like it's annoying anyway, So people just
18:35
do do think that like it's a communication issue that you
18:37
can, it's either speak or you don't.
18:38
That's not what it is. So autistic individuals feel
18:41
things a lot deeper. It's kind of like more of a like
18:45
a hypersensitivity. So autistic individuals have
18:48
sensory processing disorder, right?
18:49
Or SPD, which is something that comes comorbidly Co occurring,
18:52
comes along with autism, which is really fun obviously because
18:55
you know, complex issues. Just check some more in there,
18:58
stir it around a bit. And.
19:00
And so you have all these hyper or hyposensitivities, which is
19:03
really interesting. So when an autistic person feels
19:05
something, they have a hyper sensitivity to feel that thing.
19:09
So if something terrible happens or something shocking happens,
19:12
the autistic individual will feel that.
19:14
Like a bullet to the heart, but they can't process information.
19:18
For a longer for for quite a long time, so.
19:20
Whereas other people will hear something tragic like Cat.
19:23
Died let's. This person be like oh.
19:26
They'll feel that they don't know how to move that into
19:28
motion, right? They'll feel that energy,
19:30
they'll can't move it into motion because they haven't got
19:32
to that part yet because Alexis Fang is slowing down the, the,
19:36
the ability to kind of really compute down what's going on.
19:39
And so when you break it down, because it all comes down to
19:40
logic, We're all computing things all the time, But
19:42
typically people just take things at face value.
19:44
People say like cats died. Terrible.
19:46
Tragically, I know you're right. Carnage St.
19:48
And they'll just carry on with their life.
19:50
But autistic face will, will, will think about it quite
19:52
obsessively, right? And you might.
19:55
You'll know this like you'll you might know an autistic.
19:57
Person and you'll say something to them and a couple weeks.
19:59
Later they'll ask you a question about the thing you were talking
20:01
about, like. Weeks and weeks ago.
20:02
Like what are you talking? About like I find myself doing
20:03
this all the time. Like I watch, I like comedy and
20:05
comedy shows and stuff. And like, I'll watch something
20:08
and I'll sit there. With my, you know, my resting
20:10
face. Yeah, this is really funny.
20:11
I'm really enjoying it. Really, really angry
20:13
concentration facial. And in about a week later, I'll
20:16
just be like, you know, making dinner like.
20:19
It's just right. Because it's taking that amount
20:21
of time for me to really get what, because I'm still
20:23
computing it. It's like there's another
20:25
condition that comes along with autism again.
20:27
Lovely, lovely. Just loads of conditions
20:29
altogether. Lovely big pot of stuff called.
20:32
Echoelia. An echoelia is just like.
20:33
Repetitive. It comes from.
20:35
A repetitive state of saying something so you'll see autistic
20:38
individuals. Especially young people, says
20:40
I'm like, hey, how's it going buddy?
20:41
Hey, how's it going, buddy? Like, OK, well, that's not what
20:43
I'm saying. OK, what's not what I'm saying?
20:44
It's like. They're not copying, they're not
20:47
repeating. What they're doing is they're
20:48
echoing. What they're hearing right to
20:49
try. And have a level of.
20:50
Understanding so an autistic person with, you know, kind of a
20:53
high support need will experience echolalia in those
20:56
ways where they'll hear a word and they'll just repeat it
20:58
straight away or they'll just hear a word and they'll just
21:00
repeat it the whole time. It'll be like, it could be any
21:02
word like paper, like paper, paper, paper, paper, paper.
21:04
And you see a kid walk around saying paper for weeks on end.
21:05
You're like, what on Earth's going on?
21:07
And that's what. They're doing.
21:08
They're just learning that word. They're trying to.
21:09
It's like an ear worm. Do you know what that term is
21:11
when you hear a song in your head and you're like, how, what
21:12
is that song? And it's just playing in your
21:13
head over, over again. And so I'll just see individuals
21:16
will have echolalia with, with loads of things.
21:18
And, and so when they, they hear information, like I said, like
21:20
you know, they'll hear a joke, the joke becomes an echolalia
21:23
echo in their head for ages and ages and ages.
21:25
And then you're like and then about 3 weeks later once you've
21:27
computed that down and really get what you were saying.
21:30
You're like, you get the joke. So that's where it takes a.
21:32
Longer time because we're we're repeating it until we understand
21:35
it because. You've got to think about this.
21:37
An autistic brain isn't just like, just the brain just
21:39
sitting there waiting to receive data.
21:41
It's like. This crazy circus of like.
21:43
New. Flashing lights and everything
21:45
up. Because the entire world is a
21:48
chaotic mess. That's exactly what it is.
21:50
I actually run a program. Called chaos to confidence where
21:52
I'm trying to to understand like understanding the chaos of
21:55
reality and then allowing it to kind of become more substantial
21:59
so you can become more confident because essentially what
22:01
autistic people lack is confidence, confidence in every
22:03
part of their life. And if you can get confidence in
22:05
one part of your life being like the.
22:06
Some amazing stuff. And so when you've got a brain
22:10
that's. Completely.
22:10
Chaotic. There's all sorts of light, the
22:12
sounds of somebody like it's overwhelming.
22:15
It's overwhelming and it takes a long time to.
22:17
Position yourself in reality and say, OK, this is cool, I can I
22:19
can deal with this right now. But there's certain situations
22:22
where it becomes more intense. Yeah, the other.
22:24
So you've got to think like. All this stuff is going on.
22:26
You've got echolalia. Going on and you're trying to
22:28
listen to somebody and someone tells you like, why are you
22:30
crying? Your grandfather's just died and
22:32
you're like, what? Where and you're trying to
22:34
process all this information. You can't put the energy into
22:36
motion. Because you haven't got there
22:37
yet. Because echolalia has been like,
22:39
hey, grandfather's died, grandfather's died, dying
22:43
grandfather. And you're trying to relate this
22:45
to everything in your mind, everything you.
22:46
Possibly. And then you've got all this
22:47
stuff done as well. But then you've got bright
22:49
light. You've got somebody stood in
22:49
front of you. There's the heat from the room,
22:51
your clothes are itching, your seams and your socks are
22:53
annoying. You feel everything so
22:54
intensely. So when they say the autistic
22:56
individuals can't emotionally regulate, they're kind of right.
22:58
But they're only right because they can't even regulate at the
23:00
moment in time because everything else is bombarding
23:03
them. It's just like this whole.
23:04
Like Chaos. Of everything going on.
23:08
And so it's really interesting. I'm just making sure I'm going
23:12
through my notes here because I missed anything else.
23:13
I like to talk. By the way, I'm sorry again.
23:17
I'm going to afterwards, I think I'm going to take some
23:19
questions. I think that we agreed.
23:20
Yeah. So we're going to like go for a
23:21
break and we'll come back to take some questions, Q&A's,
23:23
which is really cool because we have to deep dive into some
23:24
specific things that people may ask.
23:28
Cool, so on. To the next one so that was
23:30
yeah, emotional regulation or emotional deregulation.
23:32
So that's another thing people say, like emotional
23:34
deregulation, one of the. Ways in which you can combat
23:37
this is a take away is if you have an autistic person that you
23:41
work with or assisted yourself, think about everything as an
23:45
energy, right? So when you feel something, it's
23:47
just energy. So you have a choice of how you
23:49
want that energy to become emotion, right?
23:52
Like what motion are you going to do to it?
23:53
You're going to if you get angry, you're going to go punch
23:54
somebody, Hopefully not. I'm not saying you should punch
23:57
anyone. I'm just saying giving you
23:58
example and that's energy in motion, right?
24:01
So that's how you do it. Nobody tells you this.
24:03
A bunch of thinks you. Just know this stuff like yeah.
24:05
Emotion. You just hear a word.
24:07
This is the word emotion, right? What does that mean?
24:09
You emotionally can't regulate what?
24:10
Are you talking about then? Give me something I can relate
24:13
to. Give me something I understand,
24:14
right? We need a deeper understanding
24:16
of things because. This is how we are.
24:17
We're humans and autistic individuals like computation,
24:19
right? Evidence is an algorithm.
24:21
I have this thing, I have this, I have this, these two theories
24:25
that I run by right? And one is the caveman algorithm
24:28
like my. My partner's always like she's.
24:31
Like I'm going to buy, you know, IKEA.
24:32
Can't stand for it. She's like picks up this weird.
24:34
Thing from IKEA. She's like, look at this thing.
24:36
I'm like, all right, She's like, I'm going to There's great on
24:39
the shelf in the in the room full of other stuff that there's
24:42
no. Purpose of life and.
24:44
I say to her, I mean, we all usually look when we and I say
24:46
she, she hates us. I say, OK, we're going to use
24:48
the caveman algorithm. What a caveman needs to use this
24:51
to survive the. Answer is no, we don't need it
24:53
in our life. Because there are so many things
24:56
that that society just just accepts.
24:58
Like we're going to have a shelf in our living room taking up all
25:00
this space full of stuff we don't use.
25:02
How weird is that? And then the other thing was
25:06
this is again, I'm trying to the reason I'm telling you these
25:08
things is how the autism. Brain kind of works, right?
25:10
It's really funny. I have this.
25:12
I have this friend called Stephen Chan.
25:15
He's a great guy. He's a Chinese guy and I was at
25:16
school with him, high school with him and everything, and we
25:18
both did electronics together because I was really into
25:20
electronics. When I was a kid, I used to pull
25:21
things apart. Crazy stuff.
25:22
My parents, I was driving them crazy.
25:25
And before we became homeless. Which is all my book, by the
25:28
way, if you want to read all that.
25:29
But when I was 11 years old, those, those became homeless and
25:31
then, you know. The stuff progressed.
25:32
It's really, it's a really interesting story actually.
25:34
But yeah, moving past that, but before.
25:36
We became homeless. My parents used to just throw a
25:37
load of electronic stuff on me all the time.
25:38
I used to like just make things right.
25:40
I was obsessed with making things electronic.
25:41
So I'd like, I don't know, like a 7 year old kid kind of doing.
25:44
I used to like CB radios, ham radios, sort of.
25:46
Anyone remembers those? It's a very kind of archaic
25:48
technology, but it was really, really good back in the day,
25:50
especially in the early 90s. I loved CB radios and ham
25:52
radios. All that stuff was great
25:53
international communication. Awesome.
25:55
Anyway, so the reason I'm telling you this is Stephen
25:58
Chan. So I did electronics with a guy
26:00
called Stephen Chan, and something amazing happened,
26:02
right? And this is something about
26:03
computations, OK? This is how autistic brains work
26:06
versus neurotypical. So Stephen Chan's neurotypical
26:08
guy, Chinese guy, I thought you like knew everything about
26:09
electronics. And as me as an autistic kid
26:11
just struggling to get through school enough so I can get out,
26:14
go home and take a shower and breathe a little bit.
26:16
And then in electronics, something amazing happened.
26:19
We had this assignment for GCSE, right?
26:21
And so they were like. Jay, you need to make something.
26:22
It's your final. Project.
26:23
You've got to make something. That works.
26:25
I was like, OK, I can do that. You have to make something from
26:27
a sketch. Up to design it, build it, test
26:29
it, have to work cool. So I'm like all.
26:32
Right. What I'm going to do, I'll tell
26:34
you what I'm going to do. I'm going to make a light that
26:35
comes on when it's dark. There you go.
26:37
Light sensitive diode, Light emitting diode battery.
26:40
Done. Easy peasy.
26:41
Really simple circuit. You know, absolute piece of
26:44
cake. So I did it, mathed it all out.
26:47
I look over and Stephen Chan's like I'm going to make a PC
26:49
motherboard and you know, and does all these.
26:50
Things I'm like, dude, that's way too complex.
26:52
She's like no, no, no. So he's sitting there dipping
26:55
all this stuff into. Acid and he's doing all these
26:57
things testing all this stuff and it looks really, really
26:58
impressive. I mean, if you pulled it off it
27:00
would be amazing. And then and then I'm like me
27:03
and my little tiny little like light of it and diode, he's like
27:05
this is massive like thing and you know.
27:07
It comes to the day. We test the test the products.
27:11
And he's like Daniel Jones. I'm like, yeah.
27:13
What's yours? I'm like, well, it's a light
27:14
that comes on when it's dark. And I was like, like, yeah.
27:17
Cool works. It works great past.
27:21
Awesome. Stephen Chad.
27:23
Stephen Chad runs in with this thing.
27:27
Stephen, does it work? No, he couldn't even.
27:28
Finish it. It was too complicated.
27:30
It was too complexed. He'd bit enough more than he
27:32
could chew. Because he's an idiot.
27:34
So I have this thing called the Stephen Cham complex when
27:36
something is over complicated that.
27:38
We know as too many. Cooks spoil the broth, right?
27:40
It over complicated something that was very very simple.
27:42
All they'd. Asked for is make me something
27:44
that works? You could have even made a light
27:46
that comes on when you plug a. Battery into it, but he didn't.
27:48
He's an idiot. He's a lovely guy though.
27:50
But. So I always said this is how it
27:52
works, it's my brain. Works.
27:52
I go, I guess, I say we. Look at the caveman.
27:54
Algorithm. We go to the Stephen Cham
27:56
scenario. We don't want to be any of those
27:58
in life, and that's how an autistic.
27:59
Brain works because when I'm trying to make.
28:00
Sure that I complete the. Task that I'm trying to do the
28:03
best way possible. You know, Stephen Champ didn't
28:05
have to do this thing. It was just amazing anyway.
28:07
So I just thought I'd enlighten you to those.
28:09
So next thing I'm going to talk about sorry about these small
28:12
story preferences. I've got so many stories.
28:14
Honestly, I've lived like a bazillion lifetimes.
28:16
It's amazing. Ha, zoning out.
28:18
This is really interesting, just swapping hands.
28:22
So zoning out, you know, You know what I mean when I say
28:24
zoning out or autistic zoning out.
28:26
Do you know? What I mean, yeah.
28:27
Can I get a show of hands? Autistic zoning out.
28:29
Yeah, You know what I mean? It's OK.
28:30
Good, good. OK, well, you're wrong, so
28:32
people. Basically say that they they go,
28:35
my kid zooms out. You see him, he's like, like,
28:39
what are you? Doing and this is the actual
28:41
thing that happened. I remember sitting down, it was
28:43
about a year ago I was. Sitting down I guess, and we
28:45
were sitting. I watched TV and like my
28:46
girlfriend, sat on the other side and suffered.
28:47
I'm like this. And then all of a sudden like.
28:50
I hear like Dad, I'm like whoa. Whoa, whoa.
28:52
Whoa, whoa, what's all the shouting about?
28:55
She's like I've been asking you to.
28:56
Look at me. I'm I'm.
28:57
Calling your neighbor at least 25 minutes.
28:59
I'm like. It were and she said, what are
29:02
you doing? I was like, I'm thinking about
29:03
what are you thinking about? I was like, I think about making
29:06
a lens out of the, the, the the Earth's atmosphere.
29:09
She's like, what are you talking?
29:10
About I was like, yeah, it's the science stuff.
29:12
Oh, and perhaps it's by the way, guys, I'm a chemist.
29:13
So I did green chemistry and I love science.
29:15
I was really, really bored. So I just did a degree in
29:17
chemistry. Best thing I did.
29:19
And so I was thinking about this.
29:20
They wanted to make a there was a, there was a black hole
29:22
happening right, quite close to our, our Galaxy.
29:24
And they were, they wanted, there was the event horizon
29:26
happening. They wanted to take a picture of
29:27
it, but they needed this massive like how do you take a picture
29:30
of something so big, right? So we could use the.
29:32
The refraction of life from the Earth, right?
29:34
It's a cool idea. Anybody was thinking about that?
29:36
And so she's looked at me. She was like, you were just
29:38
completely zoned out. I was like, no, no, no, no, I
29:40
was zoned in. I was hyper fixating on this
29:43
idea or something. And I'm completely lost in.
29:45
So when we say we're talking about zoning out, what is
29:47
happening? So an artistic person zones out,
29:50
it may appear that participant is zoning out of reality, but
29:53
that's not what's actually happening.
29:54
What it is highly, super engaging with something that's
29:56
within the realms of reality, but you're not sharing that same
29:59
reality, which is similar to like when how do I explain it?
30:04
OK, so I remember during the pandemic, I was doing some
30:09
consultations with some doctors in the US and.
30:14
What was her name? Doctor Ali.
30:16
Doctor Ali. She knows there's a clinic in
30:17
America. And she was like.
30:18
I have these. Students, right?
30:19
And I was. Like, OK, and she goes, yeah,
30:20
they come into my clinic every week.
30:21
But now we have to do these sessions over Zoom because
30:23
everything went on Zoom. Didn't know Teams or whatever
30:25
thought imagine that. Remember people doing nights out
30:27
on Zoom? What was that about anyway?
30:29
So nights in on Zoom, I don't know, Family game night on Zoom.
30:32
God. That's crazy.
30:33
Oh, my family don't care on me so they didn't care but.
30:35
Anyway, people do. They did anyway in the book.
30:37
Just move over that. So she said I've got this big
30:40
problem. I said, OK, what is it?
30:42
She said, well, I have these kids that I I.
30:44
See in my clinic and we have a good time.
30:45
We talk and we do some therapy and they get a lot out of it.
30:48
They're autistic. I said OK, I.
30:49
Said But now everything's on Zoom.
30:52
I said, OK, what's the problem? She said, we've tried speaking
30:54
on Zoom for an autistic kid for longer than two seconds.
30:57
I said, yeah, OK, I've got a solution for you, Ali.
30:59
She was. I said, you're not sharing
31:00
reality with these kids, what are you all about?
31:02
I said, well, do they play Minecraft?
31:04
She's like, of course they do. And by the way, guys, I was.
31:06
Just saying this to some of my friends on the way here that
31:08
when I did my degree in chemistry, the the thing I did
31:11
for my dissertation or my thesis was I built a teaching tool
31:14
within Minecraft showing molecular symmetry in Group
31:16
theory, which is this like quite a complex thing to show how
31:19
molecules. Rotate in 3D space right, Which
31:21
is a. Lot for people to kind of
31:22
conceptualize. So I thought, Oh.
31:23
Build it in Minecraft. It's so cool.
31:25
It was cool, actually. Microsoft wanted to buy it off
31:26
me. It was really interesting.
31:27
I didn't sell it to them, but yeah, I still have it.
31:29
But that's where I love Minecraft.
31:31
It's great. Minecraft awesome.
31:32
So. So I was like, the kids play
31:34
Minecraft. It's so of course they do.
31:35
They're artistic. I know.
31:36
That's why I asked. And she said, what about it?
31:38
I said, make a Minecraft account, set up a server and ask
31:42
the kids to play Minecraft for you on Minecraft and do the
31:44
therapy session within Minecraft.
31:46
She said, what are you about? I said well in in a therapeutic
31:50
sense or in a in a clinical environment.
31:52
This is called pairing. Right.
31:53
It's kind of like. If people did me like, oh, I'm a
31:55
kid, we'll clean his room. Or you won't listen to me and
31:57
he's playing Xbox or whatever and he's autistic, so I said.
32:00
What do you do? They go in the room, Sam.
32:02
Dinner's ready. Get out.
32:03
They're like. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
32:05
The kids is playing Xbox. You're.
32:06
Never going to listen to that. Why?
32:08
Because we're not sharing. Reality.
32:10
If you don't share reality with people you don't share the other
32:13
two things which is affinity and communication.
32:15
But again I was explaining this earlier but affinity and
32:18
communication. Affinity are likeness for or an
32:20
understanding with each other. Communication which is moving
32:22
particles from 1 area space to another and.
32:24
Reciprocating those right, you have to have all three of those
32:26
present in order to make a full cycle.
32:28
Of communication There you go, some big words for.
32:30
You and. So this is what you'd do.
32:33
You wouldn't. Just open the door and be like
32:34
Sam, dinner's ready, get out, put the Xbox down.
32:37
Dinner you go in and. You'd be like, hey bud, go and
32:39
pick up the Xbox. Engage in that reality, share
32:42
the reality. What happens?
32:44
Something magical happens. You share that reality, you
32:46
engage in that environment and then.
32:48
There's an affinity there. They say, hey, they understand
32:51
what I'm doing. I'm playing Xbox.
32:52
I'm playing Xbox with me. They get me now.
32:54
I'm going to communicate with them.
32:55
Hey, this is our last one. We're going to do one more round
32:57
of whatever it is, Fortnite, whatever roadblocks.
33:01
Yeah. And then, then.
33:02
We're going to go do dinner. OK, cool.
33:04
And this goes into. Another process in in autism
33:06
where we were therapeutic awesome where they say.
33:08
Then now and next card. Right.
33:10
And you know, if anyone has ever taught or, or worked with
33:12
autistic people, they do this thing called now and next where
33:15
they say we're doing this now and then next we're going to do
33:19
the the other thing. So you engage in that reality
33:22
with them right now. Then you create the
33:24
communication where you say, OK, well, next, but we're going to
33:26
go somewhere else. So then.
33:27
I said to Ali. Back-to-back to the American.
33:29
Doctor, I said to Ali. Let's do this session.
33:31
She said OK, I'm here. I don't know how it's going to
33:32
work, Dan. And I was like, no, just.
33:33
Trust me, just try it. Try it.
33:36
So Ali comes back to me like my next session because I do so I I
33:39
do consulting. I consult with people, you know,
33:41
businesses on, on governments and whatever for this type of
33:44
stuff. And so she comes back to the
33:45
next session and it's like, Ali, how'd it go on?
33:47
What? Gangbusters.
33:48
No way. Yeah, it was amazing.
33:49
She said the. Best session I've ever had with
33:51
these kids. I said why?
33:51
And she said they were talking to me.
33:53
They were talking to me about things that they'd never talked
33:55
to me about in a session. Why is this?
33:57
I said, well, it's really interesting, isn't it, Because
34:00
they're zoning in. To.
34:02
A particular reality which is Minecraft, which is a few
34:06
things, but most importantly it's an area that they can
34:09
control, right? Life seems for artistic
34:12
individual completely out of control and when we have no
34:15
control over anything, we lose all confidence to be able to
34:18
operate and maneuver in that 3D space.
34:20
So it's out of control. These lights are quite annoying,
34:23
but you know, it's out of my control.
34:25
And then the. Temperature in here is.
34:26
Out of my control and then the the fact that I have to be in a
34:29
room with people is out of my control.
34:31
I'm not this, you know, I'm just giving.
34:32
You this scenario. Hypothetical.
34:33
Sorry, I'm not saying I don't want to be in the room with you.
34:35
You guys are all lovely. Oh sure, we'll get to know each
34:36
other in a short while. And so an autistic person feels
34:39
this overwhelming sense of I have lost control out of
34:42
everything. Imagine you're completely out of
34:44
control of something. Or it's like being in a car just
34:46
spinning. Like you can't touch the wheel,
34:48
it's just spinning around. You're like, it's like that
34:50
every single day. So when you're playing
34:51
Minecraft, you can zone in and forget the rest of the world and
34:56
then create an environment which you can control.
34:58
And when you do that, what happens?
34:59
Dopamine. You become you.
35:01
For a short spur of time, like a tiny piece of time, you're you.
35:04
You're genuinely you in that moment.
35:07
So she was in their reality with them sharing this, that she was
35:10
building this affinity for them. They had mad respect and the
35:14
communication flow was perfect. Thus the cycle of communication
35:18
is complete. And she was like, wow, this is
35:19
crazy. So she conducted all of her
35:21
sessions with those kids in Minecraft for for the for the
35:24
duration of that whole period. And that is a really good
35:27
example of thinking about people zoning out when actual factor
35:32
zoning in. So what you've got to try to do
35:34
is not kind of shock them into being like, snap out of it.
35:38
You know you're zoning out again.
35:40
Unless it's like an absent seizure.
35:41
I mean like that's a medical. Thing right But.
35:43
I mean like just like zoning into.
35:44
Something is is is is completely.
35:46
Completely fine. So it's not zoning out, it's
35:48
zoning in and it's the. The level of I'll.
35:50
Tell you what really hurts autistic individuals is when you
35:52
have something like zoning into something on someone so it's
35:54
like you're zoning out again. I need you to listen to me, Sam.
35:58
Sorry if anyone's called salmon here.
35:59
If I keep shouting your name, I'm sorry but like.
36:02
Yeah. You're zoning.
36:03
You're zoning out against salmon.
36:04
You need to listen to me. You look at me in the.
36:05
Eyes and stuff like that. There's a level of no validation
36:07
there. There's no validation.
36:08
You don't. Have any?
36:09
Why does somebody saying to you? You're like, oh, do not.
36:11
I'm really tired, just want to lay down.
36:12
I'd be like you. Lazy.
36:14
What are you doing? Get up.
36:15
You'd. Be like I just I've worked. 17
36:18
hours like I just need to I need to sit.
36:19
Down, you know, there's no validation there.
36:21
You need somebody to be like, yeah, man, you put your feet up,
36:23
man, don't worry about it. Free some chocolate, whatever.
36:25
And you'd be cool about it because you'd have validation.
36:27
So validating the the the existence of an autistic
36:30
person's reality is going to pay off in dividends.
36:32
Because they're going to be like, wow, you understand me?
36:34
We're sharing a reality. Therefore, our Infinity is
36:38
increased and our communication will now flow, which is really
36:41
important because communication is everything, right?
36:43
We're trying to communicate. We're trying to find ways to
36:44
communicate and this is the way that in which you can
36:46
communicate the best. So I want to make sure I check
36:49
my notes here. I'm not going off on a tangent
36:50
telling you any more stories about crazy stuff.
36:54
OK, so the the apparent of of zoning in can also happen with
37:01
the autistic special interest, right?
37:02
So again, there's no zoning out. We're going to call it zoning in
37:06
for now on because like. Zoning out was quite crude word,
37:09
isn't it? Zoning it out out what what what
37:12
the world depression or the, you know what I mean like.
37:15
Every zones out with something, right?
37:16
What was the last time somebody didn't do something to escape
37:18
reality? Everyone who drinks alcohol and
37:20
watches TV, plays games, does sports, you know, we all have
37:23
some kind of vice that allows us escapism.
37:25
And it's the same autistic individual.
37:26
They're creating a dopamine flow from the things that they are
37:29
zoning into. You know this, right?
37:30
So autistic individuals, especially autistic ADHD
37:33
individuals or Audi HD as a lot of people say now, which is a
37:35
cool term, dopamine deficient, right?
37:38
Which means that we're not getting that happy hormone from
37:40
things because we're burning through it like crazy, like.
37:42
The world's chaotic, so we're having to.
37:43
Constantly keep ourselves afloat.
37:45
So dopamine's just like gone all the time.
37:47
So that's why we're like, we're hyperactive.
37:49
We're craving things like, you know, sugary food, sugary
37:52
drinks, junk food, because those things are giving us instant
37:55
dopamine hits, right? We've become a problem when
37:58
you're an adult, when those things turn into like alcohol,
38:00
drugs, potential pornography, all kinds of stuff you can get
38:03
addicted to. Gambling.
38:03
I don't know. So.
38:05
Dopamine. Chasing is what we're all after
38:09
on the spectrum. So when you're when you're
38:10
zoning into me, when you're zoning, when you're really
38:11
zoning into me, you're really kind of like getting this
38:13
dopamine. Hit all the time.
38:16
And it's really funny because A. Lot of people will be like.
38:19
Again, the rock scenario. This is an actual example.
38:21
Somebody said to me, like my son.
38:22
Collects rocks and I was like OK great.
38:24
No. His room's a tip.
38:25
I was like. Yeah, but that to you it is, but
38:28
to him it's. The reality is great because.
38:30
You can control that environment.
38:31
Right. And this is another thing,
38:32
people. Say like, oh, I'm like, you
38:33
know, just a kid won't let me. Rearrange his room.
38:35
Yeah, you ordered, but really can't move this chair to a
38:38
favorite pillow, a favorite chair, everything.
38:40
He sits on the arm of the chair and it God forbid if you change
38:44
the chair in the room. The whole thing turns and falls
38:46
apart. Like especially if you're an
38:47
autistic family and you have a couch and the couch is.
38:50
Time for the couch. To go because we need a new one,
38:53
it's going to cause some issues. Right.
38:55
Why? Why is it causing issues?
38:56
Because the reality is gone. They've created an environment
38:58
they can control. Now they feel out of control.
39:00
They feel lost. They feel that safe space has
39:02
disappeared. Really interesting.
39:03
So you have to be tackle in those ways but also validating
39:07
the autistic special interest because the autistic special
39:09
interest is going to give them mass amounts of dopamine which
39:12
is eventually actually going to pay off the dividends because.
39:15
I always call like I have this like sandwich method that I
39:17
teach all parents. Like they say, oh, I'll take my
39:19
kid to the store. They.
39:21
Hate it because you know they're autistic and the grocery store's
39:23
flipping horrible, but it is. It is horrible.
39:25
I don't like going to stores and I'm going to.
39:28
As I say, OK, you need to stand with it, man.
39:29
You need to do something really dopamine, you know, full and
39:33
rich at the beginning and then take them out to the store, give
39:35
them a little bit of pain, you know, going to the start and
39:37
then when they come back give him a dopamine rich.
39:39
Experience again. So it's like, play Minecraft for
39:41
an hour, take him to the store, come back, play Minecraft again,
39:44
right? So you're squashing this, this
39:45
period of discomfort between two areas of mass amounts doping,
39:48
which is which is comfort, right?
39:50
And then what'll happen over a period?
39:51
Of time is is that like you know the the the the experience of
39:55
pain will. Will will reduce because they
39:57
know that there's a good thing either side, so it's all.
39:59
About kind of like using those things like the dopamine and the
40:03
the special interest because doping to kind of your advantage
40:06
to kind of get the most out of. Reality.
40:09
I guess that's. The best way to put it.
40:11
Right. OK, so.
40:12
Moving on to obsessive interests, this is really
40:14
interesting. So the holders, the holders
40:20
example. Do you know what's funny?
40:22
Like when people say like. Yeah, my kid holds rocks or
40:25
whatever, and I'm like, OK. And they're like.
40:27
Why, why do they, why do they hold rocks?
40:29
And I told you the appearance of math gives you something like a
40:31
learning experience unlike anything you've ever
40:33
experienced. And it's kind of like, you know,
40:36
it's like. Kind of going in blind and
40:38
saying like, you know, bring a blindfold on you and saying
40:40
like. Describe what's in front of you.
40:41
You're like, well, I don't know, I can't see it.
40:43
I'll tell the individuals A tactile response.
40:45
Feedback heavy, so they need to experience something.
40:47
They need to to feel it like it's haptics.
40:49
It's like, it's like. If you're interested in rocks,
40:52
you see pictures of rocks and you learn about rocks and you
40:54
understand the names of rocks. There's nothing like actually
40:56
touching a rock and seeing it in your hand, right?
40:58
And then you'd be like, ah, get it, because there's something
41:00
magical that happens when you touch something.
41:02
When your when your body is is receiving feedback from a
41:04
physical touch. You're sharing a reality with
41:08
something, right? You're sharing like I collected
41:11
action figures for a very long time and and I did this because
41:14
I used to see the action figures on.
41:17
You know, YouTube videos or whatever.
41:18
And. They just looked like they
41:20
smelled really good. Really weird thing to say,
41:22
right? But I love smells of things.
41:24
I really, I smell everything is weird, but it's a sensory thing,
41:27
right? Because.
41:28
That's how I learned to kind of know people who because I have.
41:32
Like a face. Blindness as well, so I don't
41:33
always recognize. People, a lot of the times my
41:35
family walked past me in the street and I'm like, OK.
41:36
And they were like you, idiot. I'm like, oh, sorry, dad.
41:40
But anyway, so people like, I can't recognize faces that well,
41:43
but I do recognize smells, shoes and voices.
41:46
So that's one of the reasons why I like to.
41:48
Smell things so. For a very long time I was like,
41:50
oh man, those toys look like they.
41:51
Smell so good. So to order all these like toys.
41:53
I'm in my 20s by the way. I'm doing all this.
41:55
I'm like. Ordering all these toys.
41:57
And then I ended up working for a toy.
41:58
Company. It was called my Geekbox.
42:00
We used to ship these well actually helped found the
42:03
company. We used to ship these like boxes
42:05
out to people on a monthly basis, right.
42:06
It was like a subscription service where you get like these
42:07
cool things anyway regardless and digress.
42:10
But then so. So I used to hit like shipments
42:12
of these little Funko Pop toy things, these little aspheres in
42:14
my my office. Every day I was awesome.
42:17
And I used to just smell them and it was so good and they
42:18
smelt. Like a vinyl plastic, it was
42:20
horrible stuff, oily and so it was great.
42:22
And and so, but but that was it was interesting.
42:24
It was, it was allowing me that. The experience that I needed to
42:26
share that reality, I wanted to know is that were they, do they
42:28
smell as good as they looked like they smelled?
42:30
Yes, they did. So the kid with the rocks, does
42:33
the rocks satisfy them? What's the weight like?
42:35
You know what is that? Pike in his hand, and so it's
42:38
not a question of trying to to understand the autistic
42:41
specialist. Of like, oh, you know.
42:44
Is the thing that they are the collecting or the thing that
42:47
they're obsessed with? Is it dangerous?
42:48
Well, not really, unless it's like drugs or something.
42:50
But like, you know, is it dangerous?
42:51
Not really. What you're not trying to do is
42:53
you're not trying to understand where they're coming from,
42:56
because that's never going to happen because we all have
42:58
different viewpoints for the world, right?
43:00
So. I'll I'll be like, yeah, I love
43:02
Fight Club. Like I'm obsessed with Fight
43:03
Club. Like I love it.
43:04
And the movie, by the way, and the book that's great.
43:06
And the comic book is off great. I actually have Fight Club
43:09
action figures. True story.
43:11
So. I don't know where I'm going
43:14
with this. Oh yeah.
43:15
So. But my partner doesn't like she,
43:17
she couldn't care less. I think she's seen it once she
43:19
fell asleep actually. I was like, you gotta see it,
43:20
man. It's like my 18,000 time when
43:22
she was. Like she fell asleep.
43:23
I was like, OK, well, but she doesn't like it.
43:25
She likes stuff like. Love Island and all crazy.
43:29
I don't know was. A Taylor Swift.
43:30
Everyone's obsessed with Taylor Swift.
43:31
She's obsessed with Taylor Swift.
43:32
Tell me something about Taylor Swift.
43:33
I don't care and that's OK, but I don't need to care because I
43:35
like Fight Club and she doesn't need to like Fight because she
43:38
likes Taylor Swift. But I just have to validate that
43:40
it's OK for her to like Taylor Swift, right?
43:42
I'm like, that's cool. You like Taylor Swift.
43:43
That's cool. I've got my own thing.
43:44
I'll be over here with headphones on because she sucks.
43:47
No, I'm joking, she doesn't. She's good and and that's OK,
43:50
but same with autisticated videos and when they're
43:51
collecting things are when they're obsessing or obsessive
43:53
interest. It's not about learning to
43:55
understand that like parents are always like, I want to know more
43:57
about this. You don't need to.
43:59
You just need to validate that it's OK that they're into that,
44:01
right? Unless there's something very,
44:02
very destructive. But then again.
44:05
That's the whole different conversation, but that's
44:07
basically the the the the bare principle.
44:10
Of understanding, kind of like autistic special adjust,
44:12
especially when you're collecting things, right.
44:13
So but like one of my special interests, this is really weird.
44:16
This is really weird. One of my special interests is
44:19
very morbid, but it's the September 11th attacks 911 in
44:22
America, right? A horrible tragedy, but a very
44:24
big puzzle. Like how did this even happen?
44:26
Like how does how does 1? You know, conduct such a thing
44:29
like it's crazy. And Even so much, I went to
44:31
Ground Zero in 2007, you know. Went to Ground Zero.
44:34
It's crazy, right? Who the hell wants to go there?
44:35
I do because I was like I'm set. And even when I did my degree in
44:38
chemistry, going all the way back to that, I analysed the
44:40
dust. I analysed 10 samples of dust
44:43
from from the. From Ground Zero.
44:45
And to find out what was in the dust, which I won't get into
44:48
because. It's quite controversial, but we
44:49
did, we analysed the dust and I made a symposium thing and I won
44:53
first prize for this data that I'd.
44:55
Created on it and it was really interesting but.
44:58
It's. Allowing yourself to kind of be
45:02
surrounded by the things that really give you dopamine and
45:05
it's and it's the opposite of, well, not the opposite, but it's
45:07
different to the Mario Kondo. Kind of idea, right?
45:10
You've always seen Mario Kondo where like.
45:11
You touch something and it brings you joy.
45:13
You keep it, and if it doesn't, you throw it in the trash.
45:16
But it's not that. It's not about surrounding
45:19
yourself with things that brings you joy.
45:20
You know, it's not people like, yeah, you lose Pokémon.
45:22
Say the Pokémon post is over the wall.
45:24
Not about that, sorry about that.
45:25
It's. About surrounding yourself with
45:26
the things that are giving you dopamine.
45:28
To to. Intellectually kind of
45:30
communicate with you because because they're sharing that
45:32
kind of reality of those things it's.
45:33
Not about just because they like those things, because they
45:35
really feel a. Part of it they feel they they
45:37
have some urge towards it, right?
45:39
Like everything is a puzzle in autism, right?
45:41
So, so Pokémon is great. It's a great example because
45:43
there's so many different Pokémon and it's a puzzle
45:45
because. You have to figure out which
45:46
ones are what and all the names. And all this kind of stuff.
45:48
And I was obsessed with Pokémon when I was a kid.
45:50
And it's kind of like that. It's like.
45:52
The 9/11 thing was a puzzle. Like how the hell did this
45:54
happen? Like, you know, one of the most
45:55
protected airspace in America. Are you kidding me?
45:57
Probably in the world, actually. You know, the fly plane into it.
46:00
Apparently it's like. What?
46:01
How'd that happen? I want to know.
46:02
I want to know. Thirsting through it.
46:03
A friend of mine was obsessed with Marilyn Monroe.
46:06
Wanted to know how, why? Why does a woman so young die
46:08
randomly? You know, like, and he went to
46:10
our house and everything. Crazy, crazy guy.
46:12
But it was cool. He'd like do all this stuff.
46:14
Around the world. But it wasn't about me trying to
46:15
understand why. I just wanted.
46:17
That's cool, Marmos cool. That's good.
46:19
When you. Validate it.
46:20
What happens is they say, well, I feel accepted.
46:23
The biggest issue? We have in society is that
46:26
people. Don't accept autistic
46:28
individuals. We're not accepted because we
46:30
seem slightly. Odd, right?
46:31
When I think about yeah, we're like.
46:32
What are you interested? In vast amounts of death 911.
46:36
Weird thing to think about, right?
46:38
But it's not. It's just.
46:39
Something different to think about, right?
46:40
Like there's this, there's this like common joke about autistic
46:43
females are obsessed with like serial killers and stuff.
46:45
And they'll be like hanging out watching the serial killer
46:47
documentary and go to bed night, Honey Boo Boo.
46:48
But then we'll watch like a horror movie.
46:50
The horror movie is off Limit real life serial killers my jam.
46:54
So that's a really interesting example of how the autism brain
46:58
works. And I think, yeah, the last
47:02
thing I was going to say is that the the idea of of allowing and
47:07
validating an autistic individual to to really kind of
47:10
like. Bathe in that kind of a special
47:11
interest is because it's going to give him a learning
47:14
opportunity that can potentially.
47:15
To a career opportunity, right, because.
47:18
A friend of mine, an assistant guy, Patrick.
47:19
He's crazy. I love the guy, he's amazing.
47:21
He's like allergic. To metal like he can't touch
47:22
metal like he he, he owns. I don't know why he owns a
47:25
collection of swords. Right and he like.
47:28
Brings them those big towels. He's like Chuka Chuka song.
47:30
I'm like, OK, so pick up his sword and it's in a towel.
47:32
I'm like, why are they in a towel?
47:33
He's like, how to touch it. My hand melts.
47:35
It's like, oh OK, maybe don't collect.
47:37
Swords bro. Like it's weird.
47:38
Anyway, so he was like. Oh, I'm obsessed with gaming,
47:41
obsessed with gaming games, video games, right, No game
47:44
like, not like board games, like, you know, snakes and
47:46
Knights. They're like real like video
47:47
games and all this stuff. Like I'm not really into that as
47:50
much like I was when I was a kid, like Mario and stuff like
47:53
that. I loved it.
47:53
Like I actually was obsessed with gaming when I was a kid.
47:56
But I they tend to music and I'm like I'm a multi musician now.
47:59
So I kind of swapped it out. I realized very early I was
48:02
like, I'm obsessed with gaming, but like.
48:04
This is. Completely.
48:05
At the time, you know, back in the 90s, like this is
48:07
destructive for me and it's like not doing anything.
48:09
So I wanted to play music. So I just learned I had to play
48:11
for those instruments. So all my time then devoted to
48:14
learning to play different instruments.
48:16
And so my friend Patrick, kiss me.
48:17
He's like, I love gaming. I'm obsessed with gaming.
48:18
I was like, cool, It's a good thing he was just with games
48:22
because you can make a career out of this because.
48:24
He knew more. About games than probably anyone
48:26
I ever knew ever. And he knew how games were made,
48:29
how to create games, what things were missing from games.
48:32
I was like, dude, this is crazy. Stuff like he's obsessed like
48:34
again, he. He really dove into it.
48:35
So I was like, OK, cool. And a friend of mine, a guy
48:37
called Sean, he's, he's a YouTube as well and he's called.
48:41
Jacksepticeye. That's his like, YouTube name,
48:42
right? He's like a big game user.
48:44
The guy's like a millionaire because he sits on YouTube and
48:46
plays games and. Talks about it.
48:47
I was like, there you go. Patrick.
48:49
So now Patrick actually works. For a gaming.
48:51
Company, he tests all these games, so something really cool.
48:53
Happened. Patrick was able to like, not
48:55
only find a career where they were like, wow, this guy's super
48:58
valuable because his special interest, he knows more about it
49:00
than pretty much everybody in the world.
49:01
He's like a world expert on games.
49:03
But then he also was able to work with this company that he
49:05
gets free. Games all the time so he's.
49:07
Constantly it's like this big. Kind of circle of awesomeness.
49:09
He's like, get free games, you know, special interest.
49:12
Awesome. And then he gets.
49:13
Paid to do it and then. The company love him and then
49:15
they give him more games. This.
49:16
Is the whole thing. It's great.
49:17
So specialists could be something absolutely fantastic
49:20
as long as you nurture it and allow it to happen.
49:21
It could be the most obscure thing in the world, but then
49:23
we're going to have a world. Expert on it, and then they can
49:24
write books on it and they can do the most amazing things with
49:27
it. They're kind of like me and my
49:27
poster on 9/11, right? I was in a science symposium and
49:30
they're like, wow, this is really interesting data and it's
49:32
going to help change how we view things, right?
49:34
So it's like. The artistic special interest
49:37
can just like. 10X your. Experience of life and allow it
49:40
to create a lot of. Parents say to me like go.
49:42
With kids obsessive games, it's like good, allow them to be
49:44
obsessive games. Okay, screen.
49:46
Time is up to you as a parent, but I'm just.
49:48
Saying it's not a bad. Thing there's nothing.
49:50
Nothing you do is bad unless it's like, you know, drugs are
49:52
like killing people. You know you'll be fine.
49:54
You know, all like alcoholism. But like typically.
49:57
A statistic special interest is going to be awesome.
49:59
OK guys that is the end of my talk.
50:01
I'm so sorry I talked for such a long time, but I think we're.
50:02
Going to take a short. Break right and then we're.
50:04
Going to come back and you can ask me any question you want and
50:06
even if you don't want to like put your hand up and ask me a
50:08
question just like hang around. And or ask me, I'll speak to you
50:10
one-on-one, that's absolutely fine.
50:11
No problem. Like, speak to every single
50:13
person here, there's no problem. All right, there you go.
50:17
Hey guys, thank you so much for checking out this podcast.
50:19
Make sure you are subscribed because there are people
50:21
listening right now who are not subscribed to this podcast.
50:23
I can see you. Make sure you subscribe.
50:26
OK, guys. See you in the next one.
50:27
Peace.