Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1990's Rocky 5

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1990's Rocky 5 · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

• 0:02
  Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
• 0:06
  Movie talk Show. Each week, one of us takes a
• 0:08
  movie off our shelf, presents it to the other, and discusses it
• 0:11
  at length. And this week we've got coming
• 0:17
  off of my shelf, 1990s Rocky 5, directed by John G Alvinson and
• 0:23
  written by Sylvester Stallone, of course.
• 0:25
  Starring Sylvester Stallone, Talia Shire, Burt Young.
• 0:27
  Usual. Yeah.
• 0:29
  Sage Stallone even. Yeah, so I looked it up.
• 0:31
  I'm like, who is this person? I don't, I'm not familiar with
• 0:33
  that first name. OK, no idea.
• 0:35
  OK, now I do. Now you do, now I do.
• 0:37
  You would have also remembered it from daylight if you had
• 0:39
  paid. Attention.
• 0:40
  I remember George. Everyone remembers George, of
• 0:42
  course. Yeah.
• 0:43
  Pretty good movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:45
  Underrated, I would say. I'd say.
• 0:46
  Just needed a little more daylight.
• 0:48
  It would, just a little. Bit more daylight and it would
• 0:50
  have been fine. I think that was missing.
• 0:51
  Yeah. Alright, here we are David, back
• 0:53
  on the couch. Back for more Rocky.
• 0:56
  Yeah, I, I guess I asked for it. I I did a couple.
• 0:58
  Couple of bonds. And we left on a not so great
• 1:01
  note. No, that was bad.
• 1:03
  Yeah, like Olga Bad. Yeah.
• 1:06
  It's a whole new level of bad. A Francis candidate, if you
• 1:08
  will. Yes, eventually.
• 1:10
  Think she won last year, actually, for Oblivion.
• 1:12
  Think so. I remember you definitely voted
• 1:14
  her in. But yeah, so you're bringing
• 1:15
  back. Rocky 5, which is a movie that
• 1:18
  obviously I haven't seen. Yeah, I know you've been pretty
• 1:20
  in the dark for most of these. Yeah, all of them.
• 1:22
  I think you'd heard enough of the first one when you watched
• 1:24
  that you're sort of like. I know the character like Bond,
• 1:27
  where it's sort of everybody. Knows a rock story.
• 1:30
  Yeah, but here we are, 5 movies later, he.
• 1:33
  Pretty much ended the Cold War. Single handedly.
• 1:36
  Double handedly, I suppose. Yeah, that's pretty impressive.
• 1:38
  He's not put that on a resume. He's a great man.
• 1:40
  He's a nice guy. If he can change and you can
• 1:43
  change, then we all can change. I mean, that's right there.
• 1:45
  Gorbachev's listening. It's.
• 1:46
  All in the heart. Absolutely all in the heart,
• 1:47
  buddy. I want, I want to ask you, Phil,
• 1:49
  if I may and I may because of. This is the forum for it.
• 1:53
  It is for it and thanks to Rocky we're we're in a free country.
• 1:57
  Why did you choose to do this one now?
• 2:00
  Any specific reasons it an anniversary year?
• 2:03
  It's 30 five years ago. And OK, one of the things, one
• 2:06
  of the logic around some of these choices is to revisit the
• 2:10
  movies that are maybe a little bit more maligned, sometimes by
• 2:13
  me and sometimes just by the culture at large.
• 2:15
  And this is a movie that was always going to come off the
• 2:17
  shelf. We'd obviously been doing this.
• 2:19
  Of course it's going to happen Rocky chunks along the way.
• 2:22
  And I just felt it was time to take this off the shelf and
• 2:25
  revisit a movie that, again, people don't like generally
• 2:29
  speak. That's the vibe I got when I did
• 2:30
  a little bit of research and I always liked it.
• 2:32
  Yeah. And I wondered, am I wrong?
• 2:34
  Am I crazy? And sometimes talking it out
• 2:36
  with you and watching it with with a critical why let's say
• 2:39
  yes, of course opens up the audio.
• 2:41
  Like actually that isn't very good.
• 2:42
  You know, you come up with some points that I'm like, yeah, it
• 2:44
  doesn't hold up. Or other times I get it in
• 2:47
  trenches deeper and I'm like, you know what, screw up.
• 2:49
  Oh yeah, 30 years later and I still think it does what it's
• 2:51
  supposed to do and and can kind of walk away on it.
• 2:54
  So that's kind of the fun of it. And I thought this is a great
• 2:56
  opportunity for it. I think Rocky 5 would have been
• 2:59
  a good entry point for the series.
• 3:01
  Start at 5:00, then we'll go back to 123 and 4.
• 3:04
  It's funny you say that because you're an idiot, but I decide I
• 3:09
  did think that before you ask the question.
• 3:11
  I'll give it to you. Here's the history.
• 3:13
  I think that this was probably the second Rocky movie I
• 3:17
  watched. 4 was the first one I had seen.
• 3:19
  Remember that four first in the theater.
• 3:21
  I'm almost paused. That's just because of the
• 3:22
  nature of of when you were born. That's right.
• 3:25
  What you were up six years old, of course.
• 3:27
  And then I believe I rented or my parents, of course, rented
• 3:30
  this movie before watching one. I'm pretty sure because they had
• 3:33
  already seen it. All right.
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  So they're not like dragged your 10 year old kid along to the
• 3:37
  ride. They were like, we want to watch
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  the new Rocky movie. They should have been the better
• 3:41
  person. And I got you up to speed.
• 3:43
  I was just interested enough to be in it because what stuck out
• 3:45
  to me when I watched this movie is at in particular the end
• 3:49
  credits is a history of the movie.
• 3:51
  And I remember thinking, I want to see all of these pictures.
• 3:54
  My memory is that I hadn't yet seen those photos.
• 3:57
  It kind of takes you through the each of the movies in the end
• 4:00
  credits. I still think that's bad
• 4:01
  parenting. Well, I mean.
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  We've we've spent five years talking about some questionable
• 4:05
  parenting choices along the way and some make sense and some
• 4:09
  have to forgive myself and and them for that's good.
• 4:12
  So I'm wondering, when you hear Rocky fives coming off the
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  shelf, where's your head at? Like kind of how do you approach
• 4:17
  it? If you recall, I was never a big
• 4:20
  fan. I did my best to play along.
• 4:23
  I never really, really warmed up too much to any of them,
• 4:28
  although I felt like none of them were terrible.
• 4:30
  I think I enjoyed three. Yeah.
• 4:33
  Mr. T, you thought this was kind of fun at times TI felt the
• 4:37
  first one because I'd watched it, you know, 40 years after it
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  come out. I was like, well, I'm all.
• 4:42
  I'm pretty hyped up about it. All the talk about it, and I was
• 4:44
  let down. So what I did with this one and
• 4:47
  what I do for a lot of your Movies Now I've discovered a
• 4:50
  hack, OK, is I go in there with a -5 expectation, right?
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  So very low below below 0 low. OK, I go in there thinking this
• 4:59
  is going to be completed under trash like most of your films,
• 5:03
  OK. And that's I think it's working.
• 5:05
  That's your sweet spot. That's yeah.
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  So. Now it can.
• 5:07
  Rise. It's got nowhere to go, but it
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  could still be a zero and still exceed my expectations of -5
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  Fascinating. I'm half kidding, but I did
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  because I'm thinking like most series.
• 5:19
  Jurassic Park, Die Hard, I'll say it.
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  They get progressively worse, sure.
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  Not always. Sure.
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  There's a few exceptions to the rule, and this one seemed to be
• 5:29
  mixed how it was received. So having said all that, I was
• 5:33
  ready to watch it. I was in the right place.
• 5:36
  OK. I think that helped my
• 5:37
  experience. I don't think it's amazing, but
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  I think there is some validity in people saying this movie is
• 5:43
  underrated. Well, it's only me that's saying
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  and I think the rest. Of the cold country seems to
• 5:47
  have agreed. I dug.
• 5:48
  I dug OK good and found another person.
• 5:51
  Fantastic. In Tasmania, that also felt,
• 5:55
  yeah, that this movie was a little bit underrated.
• 5:57
  But no, it did come up a couple of times.
• 5:58
  That's great. Yeah.
• 5:59
  Well, I'm happy to hear that I'm not alone on this island, but it
• 6:02
  has felt like a bit of an island over the time and we've talked
• 6:04
  before. I've got a soft spot.
• 6:06
  First alone. I'm always going in with like,
• 6:08
  bright eyes. He's gonna do something that I'm
• 6:10
  gonna probably enjoy. And when I think about that, I
• 6:13
  think about where this movie comes in, his filmography and
• 6:17
  his career. Yeah.
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  What is he? What is he doing in 90 or or or
• 6:20
  a little bit before? 4 is a huge monster hit, so he's
• 6:25
  on a high. He's doing things like Cobra,
• 6:27
  okay, which I don't really like that much, to be fair.
• 6:32
  Doesn't sound like you're being fair.
• 6:34
  Just not my favorite version of him.
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  This is kind of right in the middle of what I would suggest
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  is maybe a fallow period. It's a pre comedy.
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  But it's pre comedy. But he's sort of dabbling.
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  So 85 is is Rocky 4, Cobra in 86 over the top, which is really
• 6:50
  bad in 87. But he get paid a lot of money
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  and there's elements of it that I kind of find humorous.
• 6:55
  All right. But Rambo 3 he did an 88 which
• 6:58
  is really bad in my view. Did we do the original Rambo?
• 7:02
  Not yet, no. Which is not even called Rambo.
• 7:03
  No, it's first blood that I know.
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  Yeah, it's coming soon though. Or coming eventually.
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  Like everything else. Exactly.
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  But he did lock up in 89. Which movie I think is
• 7:11
  underrated Tango and Cash 89, which also I think a little
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  underrated OK and then Rocky 5 and 90s.
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  I think if you were looking maybe subjective or objectively,
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  I always do this is a low point in a in a career.
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  OK couple movies underperform. He needs this I.
• 7:27
  Think he needs it? OK.
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  I think he's going back to where he began, all right?
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  And that's true of the character we know.
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  We talked a little bit about the character creation.
• 7:35
  Rocky is Stallone, particularly in those early episodes in the
• 7:38
  early seasons, early movies. We'll get there.
• 7:41
  They'll make ATV show. Exactly.
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  Yeah. And and sort of Rocky three kind
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  of the showing that he had kind of left the streets.
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  He was now this prim and proper guy and suits and stuff right
• 7:52
  like greased up and and good. And four is a continuation of
• 7:55
  that of almost superhero. Yes, I mean.
• 7:58
  Right, he's a single handedly brought down the Cold War and
• 8:00
  he's beating up a 7 foot giant in the ring.
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  He was tall, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  So, so there's that. And I think that maybe career
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  wise, this is is another example of that because the conceit of
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  this movie is, of course, go back to the basics, go back to
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  the beginning. It got so big.
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  Would you say at the end of Rocky Four?
• 8:19
  Yeah, right. Like where do you go?
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  Where do you go? What's next?
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  Rocky in space maybe you ready for that?
• 8:26
  Not in this lifetime. So knowing that, did you think
• 8:29
  that this was the right approach thematically to the character?
• 8:33
  I will have to say, Phillip, that the concept of this movie I
• 8:39
  thought was really good. OK, I think your options are
• 8:42
  somewhat limited. But if you want this movie to
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  have a shot at success, I think you have to kind of hit that
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  reset button, change it up a bit, change it up a bit because
• 8:50
  he's at the top. Yeah.
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  So I think. Another villain, another guy
• 8:54
  that's now 8 feet tall. Yeah, exactly.
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  Like where can you get? Right.
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  So I think the idea of it on paper, yeah.
• 9:01
  And the script actually, I think is pretty good.
• 9:03
  I think there's some pretty witty stuff in there.
• 9:05
  As usual, he has his touch and touch, Yeah.
• 9:08
  I thought that's a good foundation to build on.
• 9:12
  Yeah. For this movie, yeah.
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  I kind of liked the idea of that, too.
• 9:15
  I thought similarly. Where does it go?
• 9:18
  Bring it all the way back. Exactly.
• 9:19
  And doing so not even just in terms of character based, but
• 9:22
  also bringing back John G Alvinson to direct.
• 9:26
  Absolutely. Stallone had directed all the
• 9:28
  other movies. Oh, OK, I wasn't.
• 9:29
  Sure. After one he had he had direct
• 9:31
  all of them, brought back Bill Conti to do the score after
• 9:35
  Rocky 4, if you remember, was a lot of rock music, a lot of
• 9:38
  montage, if you recall. Yeah.
• 9:40
  So changing that dynamic, kind of stripping all of that part
• 9:43
  back as well, I thought was an interesting choice.
• 9:45
  So just. Go back to the basics.
• 9:47
  Yeah, conceptually, I thought they're on good footing.
• 9:50
  Whether it works or not, that's the secondary conversation.
• 9:53
  But cosmetically, I thought smart play, well done.
• 9:56
  Yeah. I'm with you there, buddy.
• 9:58
  With you there so far, fantastic.
• 10:00
  Yeah. We'll see if we take separate
• 10:01
  roads as this goes on. We'll do.
• 10:03
  Didn't Albertson do? The Karate Kid, you are correct,
• 10:07
  Sir. Yeah, He directed The Karate Kid
• 10:10
  and The Karate Kid Part 2. It's like a karate Rocky.
• 10:13
  Basically. If you watch Karate Kid, it's
• 10:15
  that's kind of a Rocky type of story, pretty formulaic a little
• 10:18
  bit. I don't remember that movie very
• 10:20
  well at all. Like I remember kind of
• 10:22
  highlights, if you will, because the villain in that one was
• 10:24
  pretty tall too. It's quite possible because you
• 10:26
  had to go for the sweep. That's right.
• 10:28
  I had to swoop the leg, that's all I know.
• 10:29
  Then the crane kick. I don't like it cuz that's not
• 10:31
  legal. You got away with it.
• 10:32
  You're. Saying, wow, OK, coming in hot.
• 10:36
  Yeah, but you know, around this time be done.
• 10:39
  Those two, which were pretty big hits.
• 10:41
  He ended up directing. It looks like Karate Kid Part 3
• 10:43
  as well right before this. But Phil, I do not want to go
• 10:46
  any further until you gave us a proper synopsis and let's see if
• 10:50
  it's something a little more. I don't know better than what we
• 10:53
  got in last week's, which was very simplified.
• 10:56
  Absolutely. Give it to me.
• 10:58
  Well, David, thank you for asking.
• 11:00
  We have here reluctantly retired from fighting.
• 11:03
  Rocky takes charge of Mickey's gym and agrees to train a young
• 11:07
  protege who's hungry for success.
• 11:09
  Yeah, that does better than last.
• 11:10
  That does way better than last ones.
• 11:12
  Very specific and inaccurate. Absolutely.
• 11:14
  And that might entice you to watch a movie.
• 11:16
  That's all we. Ask.
• 11:17
  That is all we ask. I would say that that that's the
• 11:19
  minimum. You're sort of like it's like a
• 11:20
  trailer. This, the tagline in the
• 11:22
  summation, should be enough to engage, and last week obviously
• 11:26
  did not whatsoever. Well, having said that, like all
• 11:29
  Rocky movies before it, I suppose with the exception of
• 11:32
  one, but all Rocky sequels, we begin kind of at the end, yes.
• 11:38
  So the end of Rocky 4 becomes the beginning of Rocky 5 now.
• 11:41
  I just skip it. What I think is really
• 11:44
  compelling about this in a way that's different than previous
• 11:47
  ones, is that in every other movie really, there's been a
• 11:50
  success point there's been. Leaving on a high note.
• 11:53
  Leaving on a high note, exactly right.
• 11:55
  The Part 2 begins with the end of Part 1 and so on and so
• 11:57
  forth. So by the way, this one begins I
• 12:01
  find really interesting and I thought really engaging is
• 12:03
  because not only do you get the end of the last movie, but you
• 12:07
  get it with a much darker tone. The music is a much darker.
• 12:10
  I shouldn't have skipped it. Then you shouldn't have skipped
• 12:12
  it. It's much darker.
• 12:14
  Even the use of monochromatic blue hue when he's getting beat
• 12:20
  up. But effectively, we're watching
• 12:21
  a montage of a man just getting destroyed.
• 12:24
  Yeah, he got pummeled. Yeah, well.
• 12:25
  You never learned to block right We.
• 12:27
  Stopped in that very true, very true and and so I like the fact
• 12:31
  that you even called that out in the last one right like this
• 12:33
  guy's getting beat up all the time is is mush you know
• 12:36
  whatever it's obviously different in style, but did you
• 12:39
  kind of catch the different import like what kind of.
• 12:41
  Why it's doing it that way, No, that's beyond my intelligence.
• 12:46
  But what I did notice and appreciate is the credit intro
• 12:51
  yeah, with the names. The names and going to black and
• 12:56
  white, yes, the slow down the pausing it almost yeah, yeah,
• 12:59
  yeah. And the first couple, the name
• 13:01
  was with the character. Yeah.
• 13:03
  So I'm like, oh, that's cool. I love that stuff.
• 13:05
  Burt Young as Paulie and then you get Paulie.
• 13:07
  So she's ATV guy, right? You come to, you want the
• 13:11
  A-Team, You want the stop pose? Look over.
• 13:12
  Exactly. Obviously I got to the third and
• 13:15
  fourth name. They're not in that scene, so it
• 13:17
  couldn't do that. So.
• 13:18
  But still, I thought that was a nice intro.
• 13:20
  Did I notice it was darker than how 4 ended?
• 13:24
  No, again, I didn't pick up on that.
• 13:26
  I see it now. Let's see.
• 13:27
  Where you're well, sure, I mean, you know, the old.
• 13:30
  Might be a little. Bit additional way to begin this
• 13:32
  movie would have been Rocky with the American flag draped over
• 13:36
  him being carried out as as what Rocky 4 ended with a big musical
• 13:40
  fanfare of excitement. So the choice sort of tells us
• 13:43
  that this movie is a little more grounded and ultimately going to
• 13:46
  be a little bit darker, which we find out right away now.
• 13:49
  What are your thoughts on this sort of opening scene?
• 13:52
  I was sort of wondering what Mary Hart thought because or
• 13:57
  even John Tesh. Sure.
• 13:58
  Or Lisa Gibbons. Lisa, because we have a a butt
• 14:01
  scene pretty quick. That's right in the shower.
• 14:04
  Yep. Now, I'm not sure if Kevin Butt
• 14:06
  doubled early in his career here.
• 14:09
  I guess not really early 90s. He's doing other things.
• 14:13
  He's winning an. Oscar Yeah, but there's actually
• 14:16
  a bit of a continuation of sort of the dark intro contrasting
• 14:20
  which sort of how 4 ended is not this high note, No flag.
• 14:25
  Yeah, he's got the case of the shakes.
• 14:27
  Yeah. He's in a room by himself.
• 14:30
  Dude's very happy and proud of him, right?
• 14:32
  He's like you did it for Apollo. Yeah, of course.
• 14:34
  You know he did. Yeah.
• 14:35
  Who else? What else are you doing it for?
• 14:37
  That's right. And you can feel that he's not
• 14:39
  right. And he's got this voice talking
• 14:41
  to him like something's broken inside me.
• 14:44
  Yeah. And then fought so hard.
• 14:45
  And then his lovely wife comes in played.
• 14:48
  By the Great Talia Shire, thank you.
• 14:50
  And he's scaring his wife, so things aren't great.
• 14:53
  He just won this match but we have a moment of vulnerability.
• 14:58
  Yeah, maybe. I don't.
• 14:58
  Yeah, no. Totally.
• 14:59
  That's you have a better word? I'm up.
• 15:01
  For it. No, that's all.
• 15:02
  I think that's the word. I think you got it.
• 15:03
  That doesn't happen often. So I have to say, Phil, so far
• 15:07
  so good. I know, I know.
• 15:09
  It's early. Yeah.
• 15:10
  But first five can make a difference, right?
• 15:11
  So it's like, is this a character that I want to watch
• 15:14
  for an hour and a half, right? Like that first 5 minutes, it
• 15:17
  used to be the the 1st 15. I've got it down to the first
• 15:19
  five. Yeah, you're trimming, trimming
• 15:21
  right down. But we still have a $1.39 to.
• 15:24
  Yeah, for sure. There's obviously more to
• 15:25
  happen, but I really like the setup and we're going to make
• 15:28
  this reference throughout a little bit more often than maybe
• 15:31
  than I would like. But I'll just when we when we
• 15:34
  started Rocky, the idea was there's this kind of schlubby
• 15:37
  guy, right? Just a bump from the
• 15:38
  neighborhood. And we tried to contrast that,
• 15:40
  if you recall, with John Mcclane in Die Hard One.
• 15:43
  Yeah, that work and this idea that he's just a street cop from
• 15:47
  from New York in LA for a weekend and no.
• 15:50
  Big deal. No big deal.
• 15:51
  Yeah. And Ellen Rickman, that's what
• 15:53
  happened. That's right, the Gruber effect.
• 15:57
  But the idea that these are sort of regular people in
• 15:59
  extraordinary circumstances, to whatever degree that that looks
• 16:02
  like, and what ended up happening was that they kind of
• 16:05
  grew out of that. You.
• 16:07
  Commented in Die Hard 4 specifically how McClain now is
• 16:11
  that super? There is no vulnerability,
• 16:13
  right? And unstoppable, unstoppable and
• 16:15
  Rocky 4 to a certain extent there's some vulnerability
• 16:18
  because he's still a character that's a little more human, but
• 16:20
  you're looking at that guy going you're not human.
• 16:22
  All that training montage where he's doing the pelvic lifts like
• 16:26
  there's just not human anymore. It's something altogether
• 16:28
  different to me. And So what this does and that
• 16:32
  vulnerability is something we didn't get also with Bond right
• 16:35
  like this, that there is no consequence to his.
• 16:36
  Action I tried to sell it, but you weren't having.
• 16:38
  Anything. And so now that we have 5 movies
• 16:40
  later, we're finally seeing some of the consequences too.
• 16:43
  Not blocking or you know something.
• 16:45
  As simple as that. Although the nitpicks, if you
• 16:48
  can call them that, that we would call out throughout the
• 16:50
  whole 5 movies. This isn't about boxing.
• 16:52
  The guy just standing there getting his head beat in, you
• 16:54
  know? It's nice that the choice was
• 16:55
  made to make that the focal point, at least to the
• 16:59
  character, if not the movie itself.
• 17:01
  And it further establishes that relationship with Adrian is
• 17:03
  being a loving 1 and supportive one.
• 17:05
  It really was. I had to a doctor.
• 17:07
  I don't want a doctor. Just get me home.
• 17:08
  Yeah, OK, we'll do it. You know, kind of stuff.
• 17:10
  Yeah, absolutely. I do like the relationship.
• 17:12
  And he does say, well, you know, just just Take Me Home, Mick, a
• 17:15
  little slip of the tongue. It happens, happened to me the
• 17:17
  other day. But obviously is going to
• 17:19
  introduce a character that we haven't seen for a couple of
• 17:22
  movies. I said.
• 17:24
  I said I called my wife Terry the other day.
• 17:26
  Yeah, it's, you know. She loved that I'm.
• 17:29
  Sure can't make me a sandwich, Terry.
• 17:31
  Yeah, yeah. Watch out for the gun, Tommy.
• 17:35
  So we're off the plane. We are.
• 17:38
  Talk to me about this because there's a math problem that you
• 17:41
  might have a problem with. I can only imagine you're
• 17:43
  talking about the child. The child couldn't remember,
• 17:47
  okay, how old he was last movie. I know that these movies follow
• 17:52
  up each other very quickly. Yeah.
• 17:54
  And I don't remember the kid in the last one, but I'm.
• 17:57
  I'm assuming that he's a little bit older than he should be.
• 18:00
  Almost like soap opera level, I would say.
• 18:02
  They come back for the summer and they've aged 12 years.
• 18:05
  It's at least five years older. That happened to Nick Newman in
• 18:07
  Young and the. Restless.
• 18:08
  Oh, of course. If you recall, sure, I know you
• 18:11
  watched it. But it was absolutely Victoria
• 18:13
  Newman fan, yeah. Because I couldn't remember.
• 18:16
  I'm like, OK, it's I was safe. You're good.
• 18:18
  I have to let it slide because I I couldn't recall.
• 18:21
  Sure. The way to now you mention it.
• 18:23
  Yeah. It's at least I'm done.
• 18:27
  It's at least five years. I would say that he's aged.
• 18:30
  Obviously the movie is five years later.
• 18:32
  So it's like it's aging towards the real time but not the movie
• 18:36
  time. Because if you really factored
• 18:38
  in my bigger issue with that is what's more noticeable to me in
• 18:40
  more than the age, which is obvious, is the reaction and the
• 18:44
  questions and the interactions that everybody's having because
• 18:47
  he's coming back. Rocky is, he's coming off the
• 18:49
  plane, he says, oh, how have you been?
• 18:51
  How's the studies? How?
• 18:52
  Long was he in Russia? He fought Drago.
• 18:55
  Was he fighting the war on Christmas Day?
• 18:58
  And what day is it now? Well, he's still got the black
• 19:01
  eyes and whatever he wants to go home, and this movie begins
• 19:04
  March at the very end of the fight.
• 19:06
  So how long later than that after he's shaking in the
• 19:09
  shower? It's a long flight.
• 19:11
  Is he landing? It sounds like it's months
• 19:14
  either way. Why is Paulie signing five years
• 19:17
  attorney? He's been gone for a month.
• 19:18
  Like, how long? What are we talking about here?
• 19:20
  If I had a nitpick, and as you know, I like this movie
• 19:22
  generally, we'll get into the things I like about it.
• 19:25
  But fundamentally I was just like, oh, this is ugly.
• 19:28
  It loses perfect status already. It can't be.
• 19:31
  Yeah. So you have a problem with the
• 19:33
  age, But as long as you don't have a problem with the sage,
• 19:37
  well done. I'll leave that there.
• 19:38
  Well done Do. You have a problem with the
• 19:40
  Sage? Let's talk about him generally
• 19:43
  speak. You won't have to get specific
• 19:44
  over the scenes. The only issue I had with him
• 19:46
  throughout the whole movie is his choice of earrings.
• 19:49
  Earrings. That's it.
• 19:50
  Yeah. It's bad.
• 19:50
  Yeah. It didn't age well.
• 19:52
  Yeah. Very 90s this movie.
• 19:54
  Like very. 1990, Yeah. Questionable.
• 19:57
  But what didn't age poorly was the soundtrack in the form of
• 20:00
  the orchestra. Oh, yes, Like outside the plane
• 20:03
  there. Yep.
• 20:04
  That was nice. Yeah, nice.
• 20:05
  I saw tuba. I could like some tuba.
• 20:08
  That's your old, like the brass. Yeah.
• 20:11
  Yeah, like the woodwinds better though.
• 20:13
  I like it all. I like it all like the strings.
• 20:15
  You're not gonna. You're not gonna I.
• 20:17
  Like piano. Give me some John Tesh.
• 20:19
  I'll take it all. I'll take it all.
• 20:20
  He'll take a Kenny G on the clarinet.
• 20:22
  He'll take a John Tesh on episode 1.
• 20:24
  Yeah. Yeah, as long as it's not you on
• 20:26
  vocals, no offense. That's totally fair.
• 20:28
  And also we find out that Sage made the honor roll.
• 20:30
  Yeah, so I because apparently Rocky's been gone for six
• 20:33
  months. I don't understand.
• 20:34
  Maybe this is a completely different flight.
• 20:36
  Maybe he took a trip to the Bahamas.
• 20:38
  He got the black eyes. Maybe he got in a fight on the
• 20:42
  street plane. That could be a different set of
• 20:44
  black eyes. Sure.
• 20:45
  We don't know. We don't know the.
• 20:46
  Movie doesn't answer the question.
• 20:47
  Well, let's not make up assumptions.
• 20:49
  All we do know is his wife became fluent in vodka.
• 20:52
  Yeah, that's a funny line. This is what we have like an
• 20:55
  interview, press conference, press conference, which this
• 20:58
  series is known to dabble in. Absolutely.
• 21:01
  Press conferences all throughout Paulo Creed was all about.
• 21:03
  The press, he was. He was.
• 21:04
  But we have a different character.
• 21:06
  Yep, showing up in this one, the introduction of Washington, Duke
• 21:11
  George Washington. George Washington, only in
• 21:13
  America. Yes, he is somebody we've seen
• 21:16
  on TV. Yeah, Richard Gantt.
• 21:18
  Richard Gantt, Thank you. Richard Gantt, Seinfeld.
• 21:21
  Yes, there's two Seinfeld people in this one.
• 21:23
  OK, so think about that. And when it comes to the second
• 21:27
  one, I hope you'll get it. Okay.
• 21:28
  All right, I'm giving you. I'm giving you time.
• 21:30
  We're gonna see him eventually, maybe a couple of years down the
• 21:33
  road, in Friday the 13th Part 9. Okay, yeah, Jason goes to hell.
• 21:37
  Really. Yeah, that sounds like fun.
• 21:39
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:40
  Well, that movie is good enough for Gant.
• 21:42
  It's good enough for me, but these conferences of the press
• 21:46
  always lend to some funny lines. Yep.
• 21:49
  And I will say that I'm assuming it's Sylvester writing it.
• 21:53
  Yep. Yep.
• 21:54
  But he's got some some good lines.
• 21:56
  Sometimes as simple as the flight was nice.
• 21:58
  Yeah. You know, I just love how he
• 21:59
  deflects and I love how he's not very smart.
• 22:03
  Yes. Yeah.
• 22:04
  But in a nice, charming, funny way.
• 22:06
  I think this movie. I think he's stupid.
• 22:07
  But I think this movie kind of leans a little too heavily on.
• 22:12
  He's aware of it. You're dumb.
• 22:13
  Yeah. OK.
• 22:14
  And I think only in relationship to the first movie, there's a
• 22:17
  lot of this like you're just a guy.
• 22:19
  I don't know how to talk. We reset too much.
• 22:21
  It's almost like a too far because in Rocky's 3 and 4.
• 22:24
  IQ shouldn't go but well I mean if you take a few.
• 22:26
  Hits in the head sure, and I think that's what they're trying
• 22:28
  to do I think it's a little heavy like I think they lean a
• 22:31
  little too far into it, but I agree he's.
• 22:34
  Just trying to, like, keep things.
• 22:36
  Yeah. On point.
• 22:37
  And Duke wants a fight, wants the next fight.
• 22:39
  He's about the money. These guys are, you know?
• 22:42
  Yeah. Jerks.
• 22:43
  Did you recognize the character of Washington Duke?
• 22:46
  Like, kind of who was presenting the guy with the hair?
• 22:49
  That's right. King.
• 22:50
  Don King. Don King.
• 22:51
  Yeah. He's gonna mix up with Luther
• 22:52
  King. Martin.
• 22:53
  Martin. Somebody else.
• 22:55
  Different guy. Different guy.
• 22:56
  Less advocating for something else that's right than fighting.
• 23:01
  Yeah, I guess I can see that. Comparison, especially in 1990,
• 23:05
  right? This is peak Tyson, peak lines
• 23:07
  up. So there's elements obviously in
• 23:09
  this character, but I think that's you and I being of this
• 23:13
  age. I don't know if anybody else
• 23:14
  would recognize that as being Don King, this impresario kind
• 23:19
  of promoter guy. But even forgetting about King,
• 23:21
  this guy is like almost a parody of himself.
• 23:24
  Yes, like, and it's it's fun to watch.
• 23:25
  Absolutely. I love the energy.
• 23:27
  He's it's great energy, good lines.
• 23:29
  I think he's very charismatic. And you're kind of like, yeah,
• 23:31
  yeah. You want those?
• 23:32
  You want that good supporting cast.
• 23:33
  If you're making a movie that's obviously part of sequel upon
• 23:37
  sequel, you're gonna need some other people to step up.
• 23:41
  Totally. Right.
• 23:41
  Well, I mean, we just watched Bond, right?
• 23:43
  There's nobody else in that movie.
• 23:45
  That I've personally myself found interesting or compelling.
• 23:47
  Yeah, if M's your number two, yeah, you got a problem.
• 23:50
  She's great. In Casino Royale, there were.
• 23:53
  I like what Eva Green's doing. I like what I like even what
• 23:56
  Mathis is doing in the early stages.
• 23:58
  I like Jeffrey Wright. You know, I like these
• 23:59
  characters, what they're bringing to the table, and in
• 24:01
  Qantas Hollis, they're not. There's nobody that I found
• 24:04
  interesting. So yeah, I think you're right.
• 24:06
  Yeah, it's important. And especially that it's a new
• 24:08
  person coming in rather than relying on Adrian or relying on
• 24:11
  Polly or whatever else to do what they need to do.
• 24:19
  Madame DuPont, Madame DuPont, we all have one.
• 24:22
  We've talked about this recently.
• 24:24
  I never really had a good looking teacher.
• 24:26
  I've had good looking teachers not with that bosom that that
• 24:30
  voluptuous that at least was portrayed in that picture.
• 24:33
  Yes, but what's hilarious about this scene and he's with this is
• 24:37
  Rocky with his son. He likes to draw and.
• 24:41
  It's cool. That's cool.
• 24:44
  And he's drawn this woman with, you know, big breasts.
• 24:47
  Yep. And it's always a French
• 24:48
  teacher. Yeah, sure.
• 24:49
  I went to French immersion so I had a lot of French.
• 24:51
  Teacher Oh, he did. Yeah.
• 24:52
  But nothing quite with this look.
• 24:54
  But the best line, and I think in this one was, you know, he
• 24:56
  doesn't want his mom to see this.
• 24:58
  And she's like, don't take it to your mom.
• 25:00
  She doesn't understand French too much.
• 25:02
  Yeah. And that's just because it's the
• 25:04
  French teacher. It makes no sense.
• 25:05
  No sense really. But it's funny.
• 25:07
  Exactly. It's funny, but it's also, like,
• 25:09
  believable, right? Like you, you don't like she
• 25:11
  don't understand French. Too good is kind of like a rocky
• 25:14
  line. Yeah, Yeah, I said too much.
• 25:15
  It's too good. Yeah.
• 25:16
  And contextually, it's like, that's perfect.
• 25:19
  It's like, yeah, perfect what he would say.
• 25:20
  I enjoy the way he speaks like we was fishing.
• 25:22
  Yeah. You know, the was instead of the
• 25:24
  were. Yep.
• 25:25
  He doesn't say violate you like a parking meter to to his to his
• 25:29
  lovely wife. So they still have that sort of.
• 25:32
  Yep. Playful.
• 25:32
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:33
  Which is nice. I don't know what that means
• 25:35
  necessarily. Yeah.
• 25:36
  I don't drive, as you know. I don't have any parking
• 25:37
  tickets. Knock on wood, Knock on wood.
• 25:40
  Well, it's not like a luck thing.
• 25:42
  Yeah, if you just follow the rules of parking, you'll never
• 25:44
  get a parking ticket. That's true.
• 25:46
  If you're not going to, Wood tells me, you're not parking
• 25:49
  where you're supposed to, you're just not getting.
• 25:50
  Caught. I mean, maybe so, but we we do
• 25:53
  catch Polly with a bad haircut. Polly with a bad haircut.
• 25:56
  Got a bit of a ponytail. Not a good look for him, Polly.
• 25:59
  Has been a problem since day one with this franchise.
• 26:02
  Yes, keep. Bringing him along.
• 26:04
  Yeah, my goodness, he really screws up here.
• 26:06
  Now, when I was doing a bit of my research, which I've been
• 26:09
  doing for our podcast, Phil, a lot of people had issues with
• 26:13
  how the money was taken away. Yes.
• 26:17
  And that's at this point in this movie, yes, we hear an argument
• 26:20
  between. Paul and Adrian.
• 26:22
  Yes, Paul and Adrian, who are siblings.
• 26:24
  That's right. Let's not forget that.
• 26:25
  No, they're related. That's why he keeps being
• 26:27
  around. I suppose so, and he was in
• 26:31
  charge of of hiring the accountant.
• 26:33
  He thought he was doing good business.
• 26:35
  He thought he was, and he feels like he's getting a bad rap
• 26:37
  here. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:38
  But their accountant basically took all their.
• 26:40
  Money, basically, he gave more or less power of attorneys,
• 26:42
  signed a piece of paper. They're good.
• 26:43
  So a lot of people thought this was a cop out of how they lost
• 26:46
  the money that quickly. 100%. I didn't mind it, I had no real
• 26:49
  issue with it. We need to have these.
• 26:51
  Sure, people broke. That's that's what we need.
• 26:54
  The movie happens because they're broke, for sure.
• 26:56
  Yeah, so it was oddly the one out that's.
• 26:58
  Such a weird trust for you this feels like.
• 27:00
  This is Dave territory. I pick and choose.
• 27:02
  Yeah, I pick and. Choose.
• 27:03
  Yeah, I think it is contrivance. I didn't.
• 27:06
  It didn't really bump on it when I was younger.
• 27:08
  Because I usually bring up contrivance.
• 27:09
  Yeah, this right. The front of the line there
• 27:11
  doesn't make sense. You know bullshit.
• 27:13
  Yeah, I don't love it. I loved it.
• 27:15
  But I think, but I think it's it's.
• 27:18
  Perfectly viable accountants do it all the time.
• 27:21
  My wife account, she's taking money from me all the.
• 27:23
  Time, Cayman Islands all of a sudden.
• 27:26
  And this is the biggest argument I read was why would Rocky give
• 27:30
  Polly any sort of power over the money?
• 27:32
  And I always thought Rocky's a little naive.
• 27:34
  Rocky is naive. He's not the smartest guy, so
• 27:37
  he's he. Just because he rose to stardom,
• 27:39
  yeah, doesn't mean he. Never got the education you
• 27:41
  assume. Exactly.
• 27:42
  Yeah. He just.
• 27:42
  He doesn't know what to do with this.
• 27:44
  Sure, you know, and a lot of people don't when they run this
• 27:46
  money. Absolutely.
• 27:47
  Look at Wesley Snipes. Yeah, like, come on.
• 27:49
  Sure. Even Passenger 57 fucked up.
• 27:51
  I don't know. Now we're at PG13.
• 27:54
  Leave it there. You get 1 anyways.
• 27:59
  I mean, it's because the theme of the movie is and we we saw it
• 28:02
  already in part 4, right when, when Apollo in here having those
• 28:06
  conversations, which I really liked, if you recall, in talking
• 28:09
  about. Too bad we got to get old.
• 28:11
  We ain't. We can't be like that no more.
• 28:13
  Love that stuff. And the argument of Rocky and
• 28:17
  Apollo being like, you know, we're warriors and what, where
• 28:20
  do we go when there is no war to fight?
• 28:23
  I have problems. I have to fight.
• 28:24
  That's just the answer. Like, that's how I solved my
• 28:26
  problems when I was a kid. It's how I've solved my problems
• 28:29
  when I was older in my career. My profession worked out well
• 28:32
  generally and ended up working well.
• 28:34
  But like, when we meet him, he's a street thug, right?
• 28:36
  He's a thumb breaker for a loan shark.
• 28:38
  Like, he handles things with violence.
• 28:40
  So the idea that he is arguing with Adrian, this is how I solve
• 28:46
  things. Some.
• 28:47
  Some people break fingers, some people suck on them.
• 28:48
  That's right. Exactly.
• 28:50
  And I think that's telling of the character and a perfectly
• 28:54
  logical place for this character to be after Part 4.
• 28:57
  Like we talked about, this movie is much maligned for a lot of
• 29:00
  things, and I think it does some things pretty wrong.
• 29:02
  I think it cohesively connects all the dots.
• 29:06
  Like I don't think it's taking too many leaps.
• 29:07
  There's a couple like how they lose the money obviously is a
• 29:10
  bit of a leap, but if that's your biggest leap, that's the
• 29:12
  thing. But it makes sense to me that
• 29:13
  the character in four older, a little broken down, he gets
• 29:17
  pushed too far and doesn't know what to do with himself.
• 29:20
  That's the sort of impetus for this movie.
• 29:22
  And I think that part, it's handled very well and it starts
• 29:25
  here. I gave it a check mark.
• 29:26
  Perfect, There you go. Who didn't get the check mark,
• 29:29
  however, was Rocky's doctor. No, he did not get a passing
• 29:32
  grade. Did not get a passing grade.
• 29:34
  No, no. So basically they tell him he's
• 29:36
  sustained brain damage. Oh yes, the bra salesman.
• 29:39
  Tells him that horse and this to me is a Stallone. 1 of
• 29:43
  Stallone's better moments in the movie performance wise well all
• 29:47
  right let's hear it wow when he gets the news that he has to
• 29:50
  retire the face he makes and the.
• 29:53
  Sort of the battle. Within the battle, within, you
• 29:54
  can feel that happen. I don't know if you caught on
• 29:56
  that I did, but seeing that and him saying like this isn't where
• 29:59
  I retire. I don't retire in some room in
• 30:01
  some doctor's office, like I'm a fighter like you can't figure
• 30:04
  out. Partly because he's dumb.
• 30:07
  But also, what else do you do? What else do you know?
• 30:09
  All I've ever done, I Can't Sing or dance, you know, work at a
• 30:12
  slaughterhouse. Exactly.
• 30:13
  He doesn't do commercials. Can't do commercials.
• 30:15
  He's tried, right? He's tried to not be a fighter.
• 30:18
  And every time he goes back to it because that's who he is and
• 30:21
  what he is, which is established in four and obviously before.
• 30:24
  So wasn't that a big part of two?
• 30:26
  Yeah, that too. Exactly.
• 30:27
  Yeah. Adrian was trying to get him to
• 30:28
  retire. His eye wasn't working.
• 30:30
  I've seen it. Right.
• 30:31
  That's why he did the commercials.
• 30:32
  But he's like, I got nothing left if not for fighting.
• 30:34
  And so I thought it's a really powerful scene.
• 30:36
  Well, I know what I do when my accountant's taking my money, AK
• 30:41
  my wife is. I have a garage sale.
• 30:43
  Oh, yeah, I got to sell those DVDs.
• 30:45
  DVDs. I'm going to have to start
• 30:46
  selling the Blu-ray soon, you know?
• 30:49
  She keeps. Taking I'm telling you, it's
• 30:51
  getting a little touch and go down there in the basement.
• 30:53
  Oh my, good stuff. But here we go up to the attic.
• 30:57
  Sure. And we open up a box labeled
• 30:59
  Rocky One because of that. Why would you call it Rocky 1?
• 31:03
  David, not just Phil. He's got the jacket from Rocky,
• 31:08
  the original. Oh yes, yes, yes.
• 31:10
  Her glasses, her glasses, her glasses.
• 31:12
  And I'm thinking these are just props from the first Rocky.
• 31:15
  Yeah, I liked it. It's.
• 31:16
  Sure. The hat, the ball, even, right.
• 31:18
  The whole thing, the whole little Kuhn kaboodle.
• 31:20
  Yeah, yeah, I kind of like it. But it is definitely like, if
• 31:24
  you didn't already remember or think that we were going back to
• 31:26
  the beginning. Yeah, we're gonna go.
• 31:28
  Back, just to be, just to be clear, folks, yeah, they got an
• 31:31
  auction basically a lot of their stuff off, which includes things
• 31:34
  like motorcycles. Yeah.
• 31:36
  Did you recognize the motorcycle Rocky Three?
• 31:37
  If you recall, he throws the. He's.
• 31:40
  Frustrated at his life and yeah feels the weight of his
• 31:43
  celebrity, he throws the YEAH. Yeah, I did the same thing.
• 31:46
  We all did. Yeah, yeah, you find the nearest
• 31:48
  statue. There's a Skadoo though.
• 31:50
  We're in Canada, we have Skadoos.
• 31:51
  Right. That's right.
• 31:52
  Now, if you recall, Philadelphia has an L.
• 31:55
  Yes it does. Absolutely.
• 31:57
  When I first watched this movie, I'm like Chicago, this isn't
• 32:00
  Chicago. Then I realized even Tommy Lee
• 32:02
  knew Philadelphia. I don't know too.
• 32:04
  And if I know Philadelphia, they have some good bars.
• 32:06
  Yeah, yeah. Top of the witch.
• 32:08
  Andy's Andy's. Everyone knows Andy.
• 32:10
  There's an Andy's bar in every town.
• 32:12
  Absolutely. But that's the Andy's bar from
• 32:14
  the first one where we meet. Yeah, that's true.
• 32:15
  Yeah. Little Marie, if you recall.
• 32:17
  Vaguely, Yeah. Sure, vaguely.
• 32:19
  There's certain always trying. To comb his hair in that little
• 32:20
  corner of the mirror. There's certain scenes and sets
• 32:25
  that I I remember just I remember more the gym.
• 32:28
  That makes sense, but. Well, this corner is pretty
• 32:31
  iconic in the lore, obviously, because we've got the bar.
• 32:33
  Was his brother. Is singing on the street.
• 32:35
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which that song, if you
• 32:37
  remember, comes back later in the form of a kind of hip hop
• 32:40
  version of Doo Doo, Doo Doo. It's coming and playing out.
• 32:45
  So it's been kind of through line all throughout as well.
• 32:47
  Here we go. But there's a little area.
• 32:49
  We've got the bar, we've got Mickey's Gym and we've got the
• 32:52
  pet shop, all of that same spot. I remember a fish exactly.
• 32:56
  So he's going right back to the right where it all kind of began
• 32:58
  for him, literally staring at old Mick up on the the mural
• 33:02
  there. Yes, he has a bit of a memory.
• 33:05
  That's right. So it goes in and yeah.
• 33:07
  It's nice. Yes, Dusty and old and broken
• 33:09
  down, but he's having a nice little moment thinking about
• 33:12
  Mickey. Mickey and then kind of again.
• 33:14
  And the words that came out of his mouth, That's right.
• 33:16
  Inspirations, you know. Let's just talk Burgess
• 33:19
  Meredith. He's been gone since Rocky 3.
• 33:21
  Yes. He's had a bit of resurgence at
• 33:23
  this time in his life. He was doing Grumpy Old Man.
• 33:27
  He's hilarious in that movie. But I think the speech is really
• 33:29
  good. It's solid.
• 33:31
  Yeah. He's like, really excited.
• 33:32
  And he's like, I see in you, I live again.
• 33:34
  You know, people die because they've got nothing to live for
• 33:37
  This. Scene to me yeah, we talk about
• 33:40
  all this dragged on or whatever this was the perfect.
• 33:42
  Length and we talked about editing last movie so.
• 33:44
  This was, yeah, this was had the right perfectly amount of time
• 33:47
  spent with Mickey. Great.
• 33:48
  You don't want too much, Mickey. No, that's fair.
• 33:51
  You want maybe drink a Mickey, but no.
• 33:54
  I thought. I thought it was well shot.
• 33:55
  I like the color or a rack of color more almost.
• 33:59
  Black and white, the same monochromatic blue kind of thing
• 34:02
  it was. Nice just to let us know that
• 34:03
  he's not really there. That's right.
• 34:05
  And I like the messaging, talking about how nature is
• 34:07
  smarter than people think. It takes away, takes away
• 34:10
  everything you love, everything you care.
• 34:11
  Oh yeah, goes. What do you left?
• 34:13
  What are you left with? It's better than a Rocky movie
• 34:15
  and I think the movie doesn't necessarily like handle that
• 34:17
  like super duper well. Like it's not like some big
• 34:20
  existential conversation starter even in the mentioning of it
• 34:24
  tells me the movies at least thinking more about these things
• 34:27
  than you're maybe seeing in the movie.
• 34:29
  Yeah, I would say elevates a little bit.
• 34:30
  Yeah. You need everything you can to
• 34:32
  elevate. This type of it's, it's the 5th
• 34:34
  movie, right? Like So what can you bring to
• 34:35
  the table? Mortality talking about these
• 34:38
  sort of deeper themes I think is is better than I love 4.
• 34:43
  As I told you, I just love the energy of that you did.
• 34:46
  But it's not it's fluff, right? Like it's a superhero.
• 34:48
  It's an action with the arcade version.
• 34:50
  Exactly right. And this a little.
• 34:51
  Bit more hearty. Is just giving a little bit more
• 34:53
  meat to it I think. It's a good soup.
• 34:55
  It's like a hearty soup. That's right.
• 34:57
  But if you drink too much soup, I get tooth decay.
• 35:00
  And he's referring to basically the neighborhood.
• 35:03
  Things are like shutting down, I guess.
• 35:05
  Yeah, just not as alive. Yeah, sure.
• 35:07
  Some of those, yeah. By town or you know, downtown
• 35:11
  here in Ottawa, always hear about things closing up.
• 35:13
  I don't care because I don't go down there.
• 35:15
  But don't leave Fannie. You're not allowed out of the
• 35:19
  house. But somebody who does go out
• 35:22
  when the sun is down is Tommy Gunn.
• 35:24
  Absolutely. Now he's the other character
• 35:26
  that will be introduced into this movie that's going to have
• 35:29
  to carry some of the weight. Does he?
• 35:32
  We'll find. We'll find out.
• 35:33
  We'll find out. We're not going to tell you now.
• 35:34
  No, he doesn't. But before this Tommy gun guy
• 35:36
  who seems to be a fan of Rocky, he's very.
• 35:38
  Excited to meet him. He's kind of trying to get his
• 35:41
  attention. He's trying to work him out or
• 35:42
  whatever else. But before he gets too far down
• 35:44
  the line, guy have the worst timing awards or the best timing
• 35:48
  perhaps on your agenda. Yeah.
• 35:50
  George Washington, Duke the first.
• 35:52
  That's right. Yes.
• 35:54
  And he keeps pressuring him to really in the ring, in the ring,
• 35:58
  gotta get in the ring. He wants him in the ring.
• 36:00
  That's it. But who doesn't want him in the
• 36:02
  ring? Everybody else, particularly
• 36:04
  Adrian. Yes, Obviously.
• 36:05
  Yes. Yeah.
• 36:06
  I mean, and she kind of races across the street.
• 36:08
  Oh, yeah. Because she's at the pet shop.
• 36:10
  Of course, her old. Jock has no idea that he's.
• 36:12
  Working. Not impressed.
• 36:13
  She's working there. I'm very unimpressed.
• 36:14
  Yeah, I gotta do it. You don't gotta do it.
• 36:17
  And she's like, but I want to be near you.
• 36:18
  I don't want to. All this kind of stuff.
• 36:20
  It's really cute, yes. But he ultimately, he says like
• 36:23
  he's done. He's retired.
• 36:25
  Fuck off. Yeah.
• 36:26
  You can't get a note from the doctor, so.
• 36:28
  That's right, can't get. Licenses.
• 36:29
  You just want people to know that, though.
• 36:30
  No. We learned that Twain is a
• 36:31
  painter. Yeah, that's right.
• 36:33
  That's got to get in there. That's right.
• 36:36
  And we do have just a line I really love, which is from who?
• 36:41
  From Rocky. OK, I got one from Duke.
• 36:44
  OK, you go first with Rocky. Well, after it's all said and
• 36:47
  done, Duke goes and everyone's kind of departed, and he shouts
• 36:52
  out to Adrian over the sound of the L.
• 36:54
  Did we ever leave this place? And she kind of smiles.
• 36:57
  I don't know. And there's a little bit of.
• 36:59
  It's interesting. It's an interesting.
• 37:00
  It's just. Conceptually, again, I lived in
• 37:02
  Vancouver for a decade and I came back and there would have
• 37:04
  been a little like, did I ever leave?
• 37:06
  That's 10 years. 10 years, tough to say if I ever really left it,
• 37:09
  you know what I mean? And there was something almost
• 37:11
  nostalgic and misty eyed about that.
• 37:13
  I thought that's nice. Yeah.
• 37:14
  Did you never felt that? What was your?
• 37:17
  I'm boarded up in Vanier. I like what the the Duke line
• 37:21
  because I could relate to it by having no money.
• 37:24
  Do you have something about putting your hand in your pocket
• 37:26
  and just feeling your leg? Oh, yeah.
• 37:28
  Because you got no money in there.
• 37:30
  Sure. And that makes a compelling
• 37:31
  case. He really does.
• 37:32
  I'm back in the ring. Like, I'm obviously taking away
• 37:34
  the brain damage and stuff. But you make the case of sort of
• 37:36
  like, you know, we'll get you the money.
• 37:38
  Yeah. You don't want to live like
• 37:39
  this. He's motivated by the money.
• 37:41
  Of course it gets a piece for sure.
• 37:43
  It gets a big piece. But a compelling case.
• 37:46
  Absolutely. Philip, I want to take it back
• 37:54
  to high school. Oh, if you don't mind.
• 37:56
  I know. Yet I do mind.
• 37:57
  I hate it. High school.
• 37:58
  I thought those were your glory days.
• 38:00
  No, No, no, no. No.
• 38:01
  Yeah, Me either. Me neither.
• 38:02
  Me either. Whatever.
• 38:03
  But one thing I was pretty fortunate and though I didn't
• 38:06
  really get in a lot of fights. Not a lot of.
• 38:08
  Fights or any fights, I think they they said they want me to
• 38:11
  fight this other guy. He was just like AI, hate to say
• 38:14
  it. You let it go in Tokyo.
• 38:16
  I don't know why they want me to fight him, just because probably
• 38:19
  he's the only guy I could beat. Sure.
• 38:21
  So we what's that? We sparred.
• 38:23
  Sparred a bit, but I don't think anything really slap fight came
• 38:26
  of it. Yeah, but luckily I wasn't
• 38:28
  really a target to fortunately. You, I imagine, were once in my
• 38:32
  life for sure. You were Tubby.
• 38:34
  Yeah. This guy Johnny Dunn.
• 38:37
  Not Tommy Dunn, but Johnny Dunn. Johnny Dunn.
• 38:39
  Wow. It was like a criminal, really.
• 38:41
  I mean, he just had that vibe. I don't know.
• 38:43
  Oh, he's probably doing time. Probably.
• 38:45
  But I Yeah, I called him a goof at one point because he was.
• 38:49
  And apparently that means something more than I thought it
• 38:51
  did. Yeah, not anymore.
• 38:52
  It does. But back then, yeah.
• 38:53
  So yeah, you gotta be careful that way.
• 38:55
  And all day he was just like, I'm gonna fucking kill you, man.
• 38:58
  He called me a goof. Yeah, he did, like, slamming his
• 39:00
  desk. Right.
• 39:02
  And I was like, I don't know what to do in those moments.
• 39:04
  So I just laugh, which doesn't help anything.
• 39:06
  No. But like my instinct was just.
• 39:08
  Like what? He's gonna Plummel.
• 39:10
  Yeah, it never happened. Didn't take him.
• 39:12
  Obviously never. No, because people are cowards
• 39:14
  often. And yeah, I was charming the
• 39:17
  guy. Oh yeah, still.
• 39:17
  Are. But yeah, it never materialized.
• 39:19
  But there was that one day where I thought this could happen so.
• 39:22
  Did you or did you not ever lose a jacket then?
• 39:25
  No, no, no, no. I luckily never had a.
• 39:27
  Problem lunch money. Never.
• 39:28
  OK, look at me. Do you think I lost my lunch
• 39:30
  money? Well.
• 39:31
  Little Rocky junior here, what's his name?
• 39:33
  Is Roberts, right? Yeah, Roberts.
• 39:35
  Yeah. Got ruffled up.
• 39:37
  Yeah, I don't really think this this kid is too good an actor.
• 39:41
  And he's young, you know, I don't like kid actors.
• 39:43
  Yeah. And I question how he got the
• 39:45
  job. I don't know.
• 39:47
  Yeah, I think he knows somebody. He knows somebody.
• 39:49
  I don't know if anybody would have done anything.
• 39:50
  No, that's the thing. I just think, like, whatever
• 39:53
  this type of character is, just function.
• 39:55
  Yeah, I have different issues with it other than the actor.
• 39:57
  Yeah, the character is a is a bigger problem for me and the
• 40:01
  avenues that it takes in the story I don't really love.
• 40:04
  I agree it's a bit cheap. A little bit, a little on the
• 40:07
  nose. For me, yeah.
• 40:08
  So the kids getting beat up and Rocky's life is around beating
• 40:12
  people up and getting beat up. Yeah.
• 40:14
  So he goes and opens the gym to allow people to get better at
• 40:17
  beating each other up or getting beat up.
• 40:19
  It's great sport. It's fantastic.
• 40:21
  And I went through a boxing phase, as you know, because of
• 40:23
  Rocky. Ultimately, like I just.
• 40:24
  Kicked my ass on VR. That's right, absolutely.
• 40:27
  Rocky's decided to open the gym again.
• 40:29
  He was bequeathed that if you recall and we find out in the.
• 40:32
  Course of all he's got. Really.
• 40:33
  It's it. It's actually the kids.
• 40:34
  It was left to him. That's right.
• 40:36
  So a Tommy gun comes back. Yeah.
• 40:38
  Go away kid man. And he's really looking for some
• 40:41
  guidance. Clearly.
• 40:42
  Yeah, A. Little needy for my like and
• 40:43
  totally, if you get that kind of approach from this guy who's
• 40:46
  clearly excited and you know he's trying to talk to you
• 40:48
  before or whatever else. Do you manage him?
• 40:50
  Do you get excited in this instance, not at all.
• 40:52
  No. I cannot stand Tommy Gun.
• 40:54
  Yeah, let's talk about it. Yeah, that's a bigger issue.
• 40:57
  Yeah. Break it down.
• 40:58
  Apparently, he's an actual boxer.
• 40:59
  He was an actual boxer. Tommy Morrison.
• 41:01
  Tommy Morrison. You're OK.
• 41:03
  It's not the Tommy gun. I know.
• 41:06
  I'll leave that there. Now, I know you're not supposed
• 41:09
  to like him too much. He's supposed to be under the
• 41:12
  shadow of Rocky. That's part of the the plot,
• 41:14
  that's part of the movie, and I get that.
• 41:16
  But I think you can still have a better actor, better
• 41:19
  performance, a little bit more substance there because I do not
• 41:23
  like the character at all from minute 1 to the very end.
• 41:28
  I think it's the weakest link of the film and that says a lot
• 41:33
  considering I don't think the kids very good either.
• 41:34
  No, I think you're right though. Yeah.
• 41:36
  And and like we talked about at the beginning and last movie is
• 41:39
  you need that supporting cast as you get deeper.
• 41:41
  M is your #2 right? Then then you're following.
• 41:44
  Mickey's out our number 2. That's a problem, because he's
• 41:47
  dead. Yeah.
• 41:50
  Not a good first impression. I agree the thematic element
• 41:52
  that it opens up is necessary. That's your story, I get it.
• 41:55
  But all I do when I see a movie is want to feel things.
• 41:58
  So I want to feel the highs and the lows.
• 42:01
  And because of his introduction, I don't like you for a minute
• 42:04
  one like you're saying, he gets in the ring and he beats the
• 42:07
  crap out of this guy. He doesn't listen.
• 42:09
  So why is the instinct to then take that on other than he's
• 42:13
  he's doing that and I've managed.
• 42:16
  Yeah, exactly. Your manager, man, I used to.
• 42:20
  Yeah. If I'm Rocky, this guy is
• 42:22
  already not listening to you. He's begging to be worked with.
• 42:24
  And now he's ignoring you. It's a little like this.
• 42:27
  And you get Paulie, who's kind of pushing him, Right.
• 42:29
  There's your go, go, follow. This guy is a rising ticket.
• 42:32
  Yeah, you should always listen to Paulie and.
• 42:33
  Paulie is a voice of reason here.
• 42:35
  He's a drunk, yeah. So I think the performance of
• 42:37
  Tommy Morrison is the weakest link for sure.
• 42:40
  Thematically, I think it's important.
• 42:41
  I like what they do with the rise and fall of that
• 42:44
  relationship. It's too short.
• 42:45
  It's too truncated. Yeah, I don't think he's
• 42:47
  introduced well enough to become the sympathetic guy that you're
• 42:51
  really hurt with what happens later and never trusted him to
• 42:54
  begin with. So of course he's that.
• 42:55
  And that, I think is a pacing, editing, story choices rather
• 42:59
  than performance. How he's integrated into the
• 43:01
  story think fails because. It's too quick in the family.
• 43:05
  Oh my God, that was. Terrible.
• 43:07
  He's going to dinner right away. Right away.
• 43:09
  I mean, I'm I'm sure her cooking is great and I'm sure you want
• 43:12
  to show it off. Yeah.
• 43:13
  But I don't even want my family over for dinner.
• 43:15
  You know they're welcome anytime.
• 43:17
  They just won't go because of Vanya.
• 43:18
  Yeah, exactly, Exactly. But going from I don't want to
• 43:23
  manage you, you don't listen to quickly having you in for
• 43:26
  meatloaf. Yeah, not a fan of that.
• 43:29
  I thought I don't know if it was it me.
• 43:31
  No, you're bang on, because this starts the fissure between Rocky
• 43:35
  and his son. It all makes sense on paper.
• 43:37
  And his dad? Ignores him in favor of this new
• 43:39
  toy, this Tommy thing. If you're writing it, you're
• 43:42
  like, yeah, sure, that makes sense.
• 43:43
  Yeah. But this is where having a
• 43:46
  relatively inexperienced and not a great young actor and then
• 43:49
  having a relatively inexperienced, not great fighter
• 43:54
  trying to carry the weight of those emotional scenes and
• 43:57
  Stallone, who I'll admit is not a great actor, Right?
• 44:01
  I like him a lot. But he fits the role.
• 44:03
  No, totally. But he but some of that weight
• 44:05
  of those moments in those scenes, he's not your guy.
• 44:08
  He can do great work, but he's not a great actor, right?
• 44:13
  I can recognize that. And so.
• 44:14
  It takes a big man for. You for some of those scenes
• 44:16
  that starts to get I thought or you know, potentially really
• 44:20
  Bruce could have done it really interesting and like really kind
• 44:23
  of gut side of of story, right, this relationship falling apart
• 44:26
  with his son. You find that he falls a little
• 44:28
  short. I I would, I would agree.
• 44:30
  The moments he has with his sons, I, I couldn't, yeah, quite
• 44:34
  get there. That's it.
• 44:34
  And I want to get in because those are my favorite types of
• 44:36
  stories, right? Fathers and sons, this is
• 44:38
  absolutely. This is your real life of.
• 44:39
  That relationship and, like, how people relate to one another at
• 44:42
  Young ages and older ages and finding family that isn't your
• 44:46
  family, like in Tommy's case, like there's material there that
• 44:48
  I think is really interesting. They just don't have the skill
• 44:51
  set, I think, to really elevate. Yeah.
• 44:53
  And Tommy opens up, which is good.
• 44:56
  Yes. You wanna talk about it?
• 44:57
  Yeah. He feels comfortable to talk
• 44:59
  about it. Totally.
• 44:59
  When he's at the table, it's not so bad.
• 45:01
  Yeah, that conversation's OK. It's when you invite him to live
• 45:04
  with you. Yeah.
• 45:05
  So soon. So soon.
• 45:06
  Yeah. Well, I get the impression the
• 45:08
  kids supposed to be living down there.
• 45:09
  You're giving him the boot. Yeah.
• 45:11
  So all that was just way too much, way too obvious of what
• 45:14
  they're trying to do in the story.
• 45:16
  It was just wasn't done well. Remind him it wasn't a surviving
• 45:18
  Christmas. You're kicking the kid out of
• 45:19
  the basement, then out of the room, then if you remember, ends
• 45:22
  up in the garage at one point. I'd have to watch it again.
• 45:24
  Let's do I have to watch it again?
• 45:25
  Let's do it. Christmas right around the
• 45:27
  corner. Speaking of Christmas, we got
• 45:29
  Father Carmine. Yes, he asked for the blessing
• 45:33
  because Tommy and Rocky are on their way to the first fight.
• 45:35
  Best buddies now? Yeah.
• 45:36
  Best buddies. Home team.
• 45:38
  Yeah, home. Team God.
• 45:41
  Yeah, such a silly catch phrase. Laying it on a little bit thick.
• 45:44
  Too thick, I agree. Too much, too soon.
• 45:46
  I'm not ready. But we kind of get the
• 45:47
  repetition now. OK.
• 45:48
  Did you notice the the kind of call back if you will to the
• 45:53
  first Rocky in this first fight? No.
• 45:55
  OK, Is that wrong? Is that bad?
• 45:59
  No, it's fine. But the obvious, the shot opens
• 46:02
  of Tommy's fight on sort of the Jesus mural, kind of pulling
• 46:05
  back to reveal the fight in this dingy church room, right?
• 46:09
  You're a bum. You're right.
• 46:10
  All the guys, you got a cigarette at the beginning of
• 46:12
  the first movie. We're in the exact same side
• 46:14
  here for this one. The only thing I wrote down was
• 46:17
  a quote. Explode all over this guy.
• 46:20
  It's good advice, I thought. Yeah.
• 46:23
  We got a a nice little montage. Though I wouldn't say it's
• 46:26
  little. It's lengthy, sure, yeah, but we
• 46:29
  get the rise of Tommy Gun and we kind of have the kid training.
• 46:33
  Yeah, on a. Lesser level, of course, but you
• 46:36
  can see like you're saying, right, there's these two people
• 46:38
  that are vying for Rocky's attention.
• 46:41
  As I said, this is the weakest story piece to me and it is the
• 46:44
  relationship. And it's too bad because it
• 46:46
  needs to. Rely on those this is this is
• 46:48
  the crux of the movie in many ways the emotional center of the
• 46:51
  movie is this kids place in the family and rocky able to
• 46:56
  disconnect enough from boxing to allow for the family life to
• 47:00
  happen the. Potatoes are good, the peas are
• 47:02
  good. The meat has to do, Dave.
• 47:05
  Sure, it's pork. Probably that's a problem.
• 47:08
  And that's a problem sort of top off all this montage.
• 47:11
  The kid obviously is getting stronger.
• 47:13
  That's right, he's doing one hand push ups like the first
• 47:16
  movie. Yeah, yeah, I can.
• 47:17
  I can not do that. Wins a fight against Connolly.
• 47:21
  Yes, yes, yes, little Connolly. Yeah, from Entourage fame.
• 47:25
  Little EI just recognized him. And I said I know you as an
• 47:28
  adult. I didn't know what I saw him in,
• 47:30
  but I recognize well, faith. This is always fun.
• 47:32
  It's identical, really. Yeah.
• 47:33
  Yeah. He's aged gracefully, yeah.
• 47:35
  He's so excited that he beat Connolly, and that's good.
• 47:38
  He's a tough kid, Connolly. Yeah.
• 47:40
  He runs home to Pops. Runs to the gym.
• 47:42
  The gym. Well, what's where Pops is,
• 47:44
  Yeah, he's at home. Yeah, whatever, but but he's
• 47:47
  busy training, practicing with his new best friend, Tommy the
• 47:52
  Machine. Gun the.
• 47:53
  Machine gun, he's like, yeah, basically doesn't have time for
• 47:55
  the. Kid basically just ignores him.
• 47:56
  I mean, we'll tell your mom. That's great.
• 47:58
  So yeah, if I were a kid, I'd be pretty pissed off.
• 48:00
  Yeah, absolutely. Fuck you.
• 48:01
  You're not paying attention to me.
• 48:03
  He's a shitty dad. Yeah, and kids at that age that
• 48:05
  get ignored by their parents get into bad shit.
• 48:07
  Look at you. Look at me.
• 48:11
  But yeah, so like the kids obviously going to find friends
• 48:13
  that are going to pay attention. And and bad.
• 48:15
  Ear wear bad ear. Wear and this is all around your
• 48:17
  favorite time of year, Phillip Absolutely yes, Christmas time
• 48:22
  is near. Yeah, like, like the first movie
• 48:24
  they're dealing with Thanksgiving, Christmas time.
• 48:26
  This is happening. It's that time of year.
• 48:27
  It's always the holidays. And there's always the time of
• 48:30
  the year for Duke to be interfering in Tommy's world.
• 48:33
  He wants to end now. Now that he sees there's a
• 48:36
  potential to get to Rocky. We can use Tommy.
• 48:38
  He. Wants to give Tommy a Christmas
• 48:39
  bonus. I think he gave like a 25,000
• 48:42
  cash advance. Yeah.
• 48:44
  Yeah, and a woman. I have the woman here's here's
• 48:48
  this woman. You just get to have her.
• 48:50
  Yeah. The secondary montage isn't
• 48:51
  quite as interesting, let's say, but it is.
• 48:53
  Now, I'd argue that you're watching.
• 48:55
  I guess it's more interesting now.
• 48:56
  You mentioned it. Pushing the story forward.
• 48:58
  Yes. Tommy's getting pissed off.
• 49:00
  He's getting frustrated. He's getting annoyed.
• 49:01
  There's some elements of. Now I have to tell you, I did.
• 49:06
  Read the newspaper. Read the newspapers.
• 49:07
  I tried and I paused it and there was an article what
• 49:10
  appeared to be, I want to say, because in 1990, I'm thinking
• 49:13
  it's about Miss Saigon. Yeah, it's a little bit about
• 49:16
  Jonathan Pryce. Coincidentally in Miss Saigon,
• 49:20
  because they mentioned about price is at issue with the
• 49:23
  actors union about something. I couldn't make it out exactly.
• 49:27
  And they talk about Macintosh's new play opening on Broadway and
• 49:30
  Macintosh produced Miss Saigon with Jonathan Pryce.
• 49:33
  But I did pause to read that this article has nothing to do
• 49:35
  with. I assumed you had something to
• 49:37
  say. It's just a fascinating thing.
• 49:39
  Yeah, it's something. But so we're watching this and
• 49:42
  basically it's like Rocky is puppeteering the whole thing.
• 49:45
  It's Rocky's boy, which again, if I am an up and Comer, you
• 49:48
  want your own identity. I appreciate that Tommy would
• 49:52
  have this reaction. Absolutely.
• 49:54
  Of I want to be at my own person and.
• 49:56
  This all makes sense on paper. Exactly.
• 49:57
  It just doesn't have the performance to get where it
• 50:00
  needs to go. Translate and then Paulie has
• 50:03
  the foresight as the foresight to say there's your ship, buddy,
• 50:08
  it's sinking. Yeah, he just, he, he Mumbles a
• 50:10
  few lines. Yeah, that some are actually
• 50:12
  significant. Yeah, he calls in, basically
• 50:13
  calls in and says like, it's over rock.
• 50:15
  Yeah. And Rocky is so caught up in it
• 50:17
  that he just doesn't want to see it.
• 50:18
  And Paulie needs like basically like 1 scene a movie to sort of
• 50:21
  justify his presence because everything else he does most of
• 50:24
  the time is annoying. Yeah, but you give him a little
• 50:27
  bit of a good line or, or a couple of scenes and you're
• 50:31
  like, I guess he'll come back next.
• 50:32
  Year it keeps him off the Frances list if he just has a
• 50:34
  couple. Good.
• 50:35
  Just enough, just enough. And so is awareness of that I
• 50:37
  think is enjoyable. This is where it's really my
• 50:40
  least favorite moment. It's peeking.
• 50:42
  It's nadir. It's the opposite of peeking.
• 50:45
  It's like bottoming out. OK, because this is a really
• 50:49
  emotional scene, or should be. Supposed to be.
• 50:51
  Yeah, on paper it's like, okay, the real blow off between father
• 50:55
  and son, kids fed up with being ignored.
• 50:58
  Life is moving fast, Tommy has moved in.
• 51:00
  Like all of this stuff. No Tommy, Tommy, Tommy.
• 51:02
  And he just doesn't get there. You know me, you know me.
• 51:07
  That's a good impression. But right.
• 51:09
  And then Rocky, like we were supposed to be home too, was
• 51:11
  supposed to be tight. Okay, so it's not just me
• 51:13
  because it's terrible connect to it, I thought really bad I
• 51:16
  guess. Earring time.
• 51:18
  Prime earring time too. Which is really.
• 51:20
  Bad. Yeah, it is.
• 51:21
  Dang, it's just dangling there. Yeah.
• 51:23
  It's really bad. That's funny.
• 51:25
  But yeah. And his sort of like big closer,
• 51:28
  you know, you remember all those times you were talking to me
• 51:30
  about deceptions. You're the one should have
• 51:32
  watched out as he turns away like a better actor.
• 51:35
  And again, it's a kid actor, so it's not his fault entirely.
• 51:39
  But that scene should have more weight to it.
• 51:42
  And it just feels so garbage. Bad.
• 51:44
  Yeah. I like.
• 51:46
  I like that you're willing to admit.
• 51:49
  When. When was his real name?
• 51:51
  Sylvester Stallone. Yeah.
• 51:52
  Doesn't really give the best performance.
• 51:54
  Certainly. I'm a little bit.
• 51:55
  You're a little. Yeah.
• 51:57
  Like, no, no, Bruce is killing it.
• 51:58
  Yeah, this is great. Protective cries.
• 52:00
  Great. Really feeling the emotion right
• 52:03
  there on the. But I feel like Bill Murray
• 52:05
  should have been in this movie because a lot of things get lost
• 52:07
  in translation. And it it's also unfortunately
• 52:10
  as a person that doesn't really enjoy awkward tension.
• 52:14
  I thrive with it. I I find it awkward to watch
• 52:18
  Paulie come down in his Santa suit.
• 52:20
  Yo, yeah, and. Rock he'd be like, you know,
• 52:22
  like, right, like it's all just like cringe yeah and it.
• 52:25
  Plays along. Used to love this.
• 52:26
  Yeah, used to. You're like, yeah, I'm 15.
• 52:28
  Like, yeah, like. Can you hear the earring look?
• 52:30
  At the earring I'm cool now I'm punk I.
• 52:32
  Smoke cigarettes. That's right.
• 52:33
  It it should be the big linchpin of that first, you know, half of
• 52:36
  the movie. It should be the turning point.
• 52:38
  And I, I just it, it just doesn't get there.
• 52:40
  Real shame. Yeah.
• 52:41
  And luckily, Duke once again with perfect timing.
• 52:45
  Save the scene. Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:47
  It's just great energy. Philip.
• 52:48
  Yes, absolutely. Rocky and his wife are talking
• 52:51
  on the street. That ring a bell with you?
• 52:54
  Yeah, that is that is my favorite scene.
• 52:56
  I think it's the best scene in the movie.
• 52:57
  I think what happens before it is what makes that even better
• 53:02
  is the argument with Tommy in the car driving past and he's
• 53:07
  talking about I'm trying to save you from the vampire.
• 53:09
  He's like trying to paint Duke as this villain.
• 53:11
  Saving him from that's. Right.
• 53:13
  And Tommy's like, you know, you're not Mick.
• 53:16
  That relationship isn't our relationship.
• 53:18
  He's going to give me the money. I've got the title shot already,
• 53:20
  yadda, yadda, yadda. So you're building that piece up
• 53:24
  and he storms away, Tommy, he drives off he stops.
• 53:27
  He does this like thumb to his forehead.
• 53:30
  He's got a headache. I assume he had a migraine.
• 53:32
  Yeah. So it's obviously something to
• 53:33
  do with the brain damage, but we've only just seen this now
• 53:36
  it's it's an hour and 10 minutes into the movie.
• 53:39
  It feels a little contrived. But the scene afterwards is, is,
• 53:42
  I think, really powerful. Now you know why I might like
• 53:45
  it. I'm curious what your thought of
• 53:46
  is before I dive too much into why I like it.
• 53:49
  I think Adrian, yeah, doesn't necessarily have a lot to do in
• 53:54
  the movie. I think she has more to do in
• 53:56
  this movie than she did in the previous.
• 53:58
  Movie didn't let me finish, didn't let me finish, let me
• 54:00
  finish. But in this movie, but in this
• 54:04
  particular scene, she's very good, is what I'm trying to say.
• 54:06
  OK, I think her delivery throughout this movie has been
• 54:09
  good, but this is a moment where I was actually able to finally
• 54:13
  connect to somebody delivering some heartfelt dialogue that I'm
• 54:18
  not getting from anybody else. Sure.
• 54:21
  So hey, I thought you would like it just because I.
• 54:23
  Just, well, I'll tell you why. Don't get me wrong, just the way
• 54:26
  it's shot. Anyway, you notice these little
• 54:28
  things and, and it's very powerful.
• 54:31
  And she's more or less saying you should be passing all this
• 54:34
  stuff on to your son, not to Tommy Gunn.
• 54:39
  Like, we know that, but she's still able to send that message
• 54:43
  to him in a way that's delivered.
• 54:45
  Very cinematically and it really pain pack the punch, ironically
• 54:49
  speaking. Yeah, I think she's always been
• 54:51
  the only one that really gets to him, right In Rocky three, he's
• 54:54
  like I can train now 'cause you're there and Rocky 4 the
• 54:56
  same. She's what she shows all that
• 54:58
  she's. Rock.
• 54:59
  Yeah, sure. It's that relationship right in
• 55:03
  Part 2 when she awakens from the coma, which is terrible, but but
• 55:07
  she's always that sort of voice in the movie that that pushes
• 55:10
  the next level. And I agree, I think in this
• 55:13
  one, she's got more of a part because she's fighting the
• 55:15
  doctors more often, She's fighting with Polly more.
• 55:17
  She's got. She's not in a coma.
• 55:18
  Half of that's right, she. Got more stuff going on, but
• 55:20
  yeah, I think they're both phenomenal in this moment.
• 55:23
  I think she steps up because that's, you know, she's a great
• 55:26
  actor and the material she's got is really good.
• 55:28
  But I think Stallone, like meets her and even exceeds at times
• 55:31
  because he gets to express in a way that he doesn't usually in
• 55:35
  these movies that vulnerability. I don't want this.
• 55:38
  I fought my whole life. I got beat up forever.
• 55:41
  I'm fucking brain damaged at this point.
• 55:43
  He's like, my life is this, and I didn't want this.
• 55:45
  I didn't do all of what we did to be here back where exactly
• 55:49
  where we were 15 years ago. That's funny, right?
• 55:52
  It's miserable, right? So it's a reminder no matter how
• 55:54
  big you got, you're still the piece of garbage with more brain
• 55:58
  damage. Exactly for nothing.
• 56:00
  And I agree with you, actually, that you mentioned.
• 56:02
  I do want to give credit to Stallone.
• 56:04
  I'm not a big Stallone guy, but this scene did feel very
• 56:06
  organic. And between the two of them, I
• 56:09
  think this was probably in his performance was also peaking.
• 56:12
  Totally. I just love it.
• 56:13
  I just think it's such a really great emotional moment for these
• 56:17
  characters and that with people that can deliver it.
• 56:20
  I would say it's the best scene. I would put in that category,
• 56:24
  yeah. The only thing I don't like
• 56:25
  about it too much is the resolution with his son happens.
• 56:28
  Oh my God. Like 2 minutes later.
• 56:31
  And it resolves pretty quickly. Yeah, it's just like it's going
• 56:34
  to be OK. Oh, OK.
• 56:36
  And I guess when you're a young kid, like I'm trying not to be
• 56:38
  cynical about it. If I'm 15 year old kid and my
• 56:41
  dad says like I'm going to pay attention to you now and like
• 56:44
  we're going to. I want that.
• 56:45
  I wanted that the whole time. Right, you're admitting your
• 56:47
  your wrongdoing. Yeah.
• 56:49
  So like, I can appreciate a kid is not going to be like, yeah,
• 56:51
  not going to hold a grudge necessarily.
• 56:53
  Maybe that's an older person, cynical thing, I think, Yeah.
• 56:55
  But still sucked. The scene still sucked and I
• 56:58
  think performance didn't help, but conceptually it's like I get
• 57:02
  why they got back together but stylistically and structurally
• 57:05
  it's a little like convenient. It's nice to see him smoking
• 57:07
  though. I like a kid smoking.
• 57:10
  You know, tell him to watch 60 minutes.
• 57:12
  They only knew. They only knew.
• 57:20
  Well, Phil, if we can move away from the family of it all.
• 57:24
  Back to where the real story is. Get back in the ring with the
• 57:28
  clone Ranger. Nailed it.
• 57:31
  They said it. Not me.
• 57:32
  Yeah, I'm going to pretend, but I wrote it down.
• 57:33
  Yeah, I remembered. I listened.
• 57:35
  Yeah. Rocky's puppet.
• 57:36
  So Tommy Gun, he's doing pretty well.
• 57:38
  Yeah, he's on the heart. He's rocking it.
• 57:40
  He's beating somebody up. And he's creating the other guy.
• 57:44
  Ultimately wins, correct? So I'm not sure if pretty.
• 57:46
  Quickly not a. This isn't like a big huge
• 57:49
  montage fight like we've seen in other movies.
• 57:51
  Yeah, we don't have time to spend too much I think, on the
• 57:54
  fight. This be real here.
• 57:55
  There's more more to come that has to be sort of taken care of,
• 57:59
  but it does lead to arguably the second best scene.
• 58:03
  Yes, I would say yeah, if you're right.
• 58:06
  Am I getting it? I think so.
• 58:07
  It's better in my list. I'm getting, I'm getting inside.
• 58:09
  We're in. Sync here.
• 58:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about the the
• 58:14
  punching bag. The the rocky watching it was it
• 58:16
  was what's the word the rhythm sure of it was perfectly tied
• 58:21
  between the actual fight and every time he hits the.
• 58:24
  Bag, you love the editing. It actually it was really well
• 58:28
  edited. Paulie's there too, watching.
• 58:30
  Just watching it. Just watching it.
• 58:31
  Yeah. Small screen.
• 58:32
  The kids, both of them, Adrian, everybody. 16 inch TV give or
• 58:36
  take. Yeah, most of them, I think.
• 58:37
  They Oh yeah, definitely 9.2. Yeah, I think it's another
• 58:41
  extension of that great scene because you get to feel Rocky's.
• 58:44
  He's like in the ring almost right?
• 58:46
  He's living out. And he says that right when I
• 58:48
  was managing Tommy, it was like I was winning again.
• 58:51
  It was like I was back in that ring.
• 58:53
  And he can't be. And it's a good situation if you
• 58:55
  can feel that and not risk further brain damage, make a
• 58:59
  little money. Even as a manager, it's not a
• 59:01
  bad situation. It's not too much, not overall,
• 59:04
  it's not a lot to it, but it's subtle and it's Stallone showing
• 59:07
  me anyway that that he's delivering the passion that he
• 59:10
  feels in the ring. He gets it outside.
• 59:13
  And to your point, if you can find that thread, that needle,
• 59:15
  you get to still connect those dots.
• 59:17
  It's part of why I've I've tried to write movies.
• 59:19
  I tried to make movies with friends and there's a reason I
• 59:22
  talk about them. It gives me the same kind of
• 59:24
  passion. You're.
• 59:25
  Passionate guy without the skill set to make one myself.
• 59:29
  So Rocky can't fight anymore, but he can live vicariously, and
• 59:33
  that's important. Unfortunately, Tommy, he doesn't
• 59:37
  get it. He.
• 59:38
  Takes the wind out of the sails. Yep.
• 59:40
  I don't know. I don't think that that's a
• 59:41
  suiting term, I think. Yeah, Rocky's expecting a little
• 59:44
  little something. Little cheese.
• 59:47
  Yeah, end of the fight and he thanks.
• 59:50
  The man that the man that got him there.
• 59:52
  The guy that game of a woman in $25,000.
• 59:55
  Probably some sea guards maybe, but George Washington Duke, what
• 1:00:01
  a weird name. By the way, GWD.
• 1:00:03
  Yep. If I got that right, you know,
• 1:00:05
  Rocky doesn't overreact. He obviously it's affected him,
• 1:00:07
  but he's kind of keeping it a little on the inside.
• 1:00:10
  But it's it's noted totally that he's not impressed.
• 1:00:13
  But I always, I get the sense that, oh, you know, he'll get
• 1:00:15
  over it, whatever. But.
• 1:00:17
  A little heartbroken, I think. He's doesn't want to show it.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah, subtle. Like it's not.
• 1:00:21
  I heard it, but I didn't hear it.
• 1:00:22
  Yeah. It's not sinking in.
• 1:00:24
  It's a it's a quiet moment. From an actor, again not great,
• 1:00:26
  but when he gets the opportunities he he can deliver
• 1:00:29
  more than he does. He has moments, that's right.
• 1:00:32
  I've seen cliffhanger buddy. He can bring it.
• 1:00:34
  He hangs with the best. Of them.
• 1:00:35
  That's right. Put him on a hill, Lithgow.
• 1:00:38
  Oh my. God, geez, Lookout now.
• 1:00:40
  The press conferences without Rocky or Creed frankly aren't as
• 1:00:45
  good. Fair, you don't like this one
• 1:00:47
  too much particularly. Same same journalist from the
• 1:00:50
  beginning waving his notepad, you know, strangely.
• 1:00:53
  He's an idiot. You're no Rocky Balboa.
• 1:00:56
  Yeah. It's pisses him off, though.
• 1:00:58
  It did. And Duke's not getting his back,
• 1:01:00
  so there's friction there because, you know, you can't
• 1:01:02
  beat the journalists. And it's transactional.
• 1:01:04
  I mean, he's getting a little irritated.
• 1:01:06
  He's furious at this point. Yeah.
• 1:01:07
  Throws the belt down the stairs. Even your own guys, you know,
• 1:01:11
  like come. On Yeah, but Duke.
• 1:01:13
  Duke's got a plan. Duke's got plans and ways of.
• 1:01:17
  Delivering words, Yeah, in a way, very talented.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, very talented. And he says, Tommy, the only way
• 1:01:25
  can we get out of Rocky's shadow.
• 1:01:26
  Only way is you got to beat him in the ring.
• 1:01:28
  Get him in the ring. Only place you can do it.
• 1:01:31
  And how do you do it? You got a dog, that's good.
• 1:01:34
  And so their solution is to go to Andy's bar of.
• 1:01:38
  Course. And punch Polly in the face.
• 1:01:41
  Yeah. Let me ask you this though,
• 1:01:42
  before we get to cuz we're getting in the last little bit
• 1:01:45
  here. Sure.
• 1:01:46
  Did you ever think at one point when you originally saw this
• 1:01:49
  movie, this is gonna take you back, that they were actually
• 1:01:52
  gonna fight in the ring? No.
• 1:01:55
  Like at this point it's too late.
• 1:01:56
  That's the thing, I thought, How much time that's?
• 1:01:58
  Not, I didn't know that it was too late.
• 1:02:00
  Like obviously I mean I had it on VHS, but we didn't have the
• 1:02:02
  timeline at that point. But there was definitely like
• 1:02:05
  this, sort of. I could not imagine, even at 10
• 1:02:07
  or 11 years old when I saw it, that there would be another
• 1:02:11
  fight in the ring, in the ring. It just struck me as not.
• 1:02:14
  Plus, I think I've seen the trailer and the trailer has that
• 1:02:16
  great line. You've knocked him down.
• 1:02:18
  Why don't you try knocking me down or my ring's outside?
• 1:02:21
  You know, so you're. Like, OK, this is going to end
• 1:02:23
  in this. I didn't love the idea that it
• 1:02:26
  was going to end in a street brawl.
• 1:02:28
  Yeah, you don't you. You don't like street ball?
• 1:02:31
  I've on the record St. balls, St. brawls, yeah, it just feels
• 1:02:35
  not rockyish. Whereas up until now, as a
• 1:02:39
  character, everything I've seen, most of everything I've seen is
• 1:02:44
  very on character to me, across the board.
• 1:02:47
  Polly's being Polly sucks, right?
• 1:02:49
  Agent's being at the heart of the movie.
• 1:02:50
  The Rock, the The Rock, if you will.
• 1:02:52
  Rocky is kind and like affable kind of guy who's trying to get
• 1:02:57
  by. Shitty Dad A.
• 1:02:59
  Little bit but ending in a street fight.
• 1:03:02
  Doesn't feel rocky. Doesn't feel Rocky character
• 1:03:05
  because he wasn't a Street Fighter in the beginning of the
• 1:03:07
  movie. Not enough gadgets?
• 1:03:09
  I don't know. It's trying to be different and
• 1:03:11
  there's nothing wrong. With it.
• 1:03:12
  What's wrong with that? I just think.
• 1:03:14
  Little bit of growth we're #5 here.
• 1:03:16
  That's not how I wanted the movie to end.
• 1:03:17
  I'm sorry to hear that, I thought it was pretty good.
• 1:03:20
  That's fun. Honestly, I was wearing a little
• 1:03:22
  bit thin with this movie at this point.
• 1:03:24
  It's up in Phoebe pacing. Kind of done with it.
• 1:03:26
  Just because the, Yeah, slowing down a little bit.
• 1:03:29
  And again, anytime the weaker actors spent too much time on
• 1:03:33
  the screen, I was like, OK, we got to get Duke back on here or
• 1:03:37
  something. I think people feel when
• 1:03:38
  listening to us, yeah. Maybe, yeah, But I didn't mind
• 1:03:43
  this this. Battle I thought it was well
• 1:03:45
  choreographed sure I think executed it was OK I just this
• 1:03:49
  is not how I wanted the movie to end I'm.
• 1:03:50
  Sort of hear it because this is how it's going to end.
• 1:03:53
  Yeah, yeah. I will say this is a little
• 1:03:56
  personal story but bizarrely I cried when I watched this last
• 1:04:04
  moments. When?
• 1:04:05
  Recently. Yeah, like this time.
• 1:04:08
  That's pathetic when Rocky gets knocked down on the ground.
• 1:04:14
  The first time. The long time.
• 1:04:16
  Yeah, the first time. Yeah, and he's out of it.
• 1:04:19
  And we're cutting to flashes of Mickey.
• 1:04:21
  Yeah, OK, I know exactly fight. This guy hard, the blood coming
• 1:04:25
  down his face like he's basically like this is the end.
• 1:04:27
  And you hear Mickey one more round.
• 1:04:30
  I didn't hear no bell. Get up you son of a bitch.
• 1:04:33
  Mickey loves you. And the music swells and his
• 1:04:37
  face comes up. AI think it's really beautiful
• 1:04:40
  and well staged and structured. But when my mother was dying for
• 1:04:45
  whatever reason, this movie was in my head a lot.
• 1:04:50
  And there was just that last little bit and there was this
• 1:04:52
  feeling as it was happening that it was like one more round get
• 1:04:58
  up. Yes, yes.
• 1:05:00
  And cause Mickey loves you, you know, like, like this kind of
• 1:05:03
  thing. And like, I didn't hear a bell.
• 1:05:05
  Like it's not fucking over. And for whatever reason, all of
• 1:05:09
  those thoughts and emotions got linked to this one.
• 1:05:13
  Memory burn, Yeah. Tail end of 1 Rocky fucking
• 1:05:16
  movie It's. Interesting how that works
• 1:05:18
  sometimes. That it was 1990, she died in
• 1:05:19
  2001 or 2002. Sorry, it's not a it's not even
• 1:05:22
  like it was close. You know what I mean?
• 1:05:23
  Like so I have no explanation, but everything about literally
• 1:05:27
  the day that she was dying was replaying in my head was one
• 1:05:31
  more round get up. It was just really strange.
• 1:05:34
  Sometimes the words just click in to your brain somehow into a
• 1:05:38
  memory that somehow, yeah, connects to that.
• 1:05:41
  It's just like such a throwaway scene in a movie that isn't that
• 1:05:44
  good. Like it's, you know, I.
• 1:05:45
  Like, hey now let me ask you a personal question.
• 1:05:47
  Do you enjoy feeling that sometimes?
• 1:05:49
  Of course. OK, that's ultimately why it's
• 1:05:51
  sad, but it's sometimes being sad is. 100% just.
• 1:05:54
  Feeling something is. Absolutely.
• 1:05:56
  It's also connected a lot to It's the saddest moment, but it
• 1:06:01
  puts me back into a space where a little bit she was still
• 1:06:04
  alive, however brief that was going to be.
• 1:06:06
  Like there's this weird thing about.
• 1:06:08
  That the moment in time. It's a moment, yeah.
• 1:06:10
  And I watch movies to feel things, right?
• 1:06:11
  We've talked about this before. This is the difference between
• 1:06:13
  you and I in many ways. I secretly do that.
• 1:06:16
  I think you try to feel things right, like I think you've said
• 1:06:19
  you've struggled to feel the sometimes.
• 1:06:22
  The issue like we talked about before, I used to, yes, but it
• 1:06:25
  was associated with the alcohol. It's like chasing, you know,
• 1:06:28
  that first heroine high? Sure.
• 1:06:29
  Yeah, I don't even bother chasing it now, but I just.
• 1:06:32
  Shut it down. It's really hard to get there.
• 1:06:34
  Yeah. Monk was the last time you
• 1:06:36
  fucking made fun of me. I don't know.
• 1:06:38
  It's like what that got you Sure.
• 1:06:41
  Yeah. It's a little like this.
• 1:06:42
  If I wasn't such an emotional person, I told you Rocky 5 is
• 1:06:44
  the thing that made me cry today.
• 1:06:46
  Like what are you talking about? You know?
• 1:06:48
  So Monk would probably is reason why where it's like we've
• 1:06:51
  watched what I thought were like these really powerful, emotional
• 1:06:55
  movies. Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  And you're like Monk. Give me Monk.
• 1:06:58
  I think it's beautiful. But it is a little like, really?
• 1:07:01
  That's the one. Was it, buddy?
• 1:07:02
  Yeah. It's kind of fascinating.
• 1:07:03
  That is a great scene though, and I thought from a filmatic
• 1:07:07
  point of view, like it kind of him rising back up and it was
• 1:07:12
  good. I don't like the fact that he's
• 1:07:14
  dumb enough to turn his back a second time because that's the
• 1:07:17
  only way Tommy even had a shot was the low blows.
• 1:07:22
  Yeah, from behind. Otherwise this is.
• 1:07:25
  The no brainer. This is Rocky.
• 1:07:26
  He's all the way. But it's a good fight.
• 1:07:27
  It's a good fight. And, you know, I'm glad Tommy
• 1:07:29
  got his. Head run.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah, absolutely. He's sort of flopped up, touched
• 1:07:33
  me and I'll sue. I love Speaking of of Duke,
• 1:07:36
  Yeah, every time Tommy was sort of losing, we'd cut to a close
• 1:07:41
  up and he's just yelling at him. Not even words sometimes.
• 1:07:45
  He was just very passionate. Yeah.
• 1:07:47
  It was just entertaining, yeah. So Rocky's the victor.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah. To the victor goes the spoils.
• 1:07:52
  That's trying. The spoils in this case is the
• 1:07:54
  Philadelphia Public Library. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:07:58
  It's a great library. Actually, yeah, yeah, people are
• 1:08:00
  underrated. 7th best library in North America.
• 1:08:04
  I shit you not, I shit you not, you'll never guess #1.
• 1:08:08
  No, MoMA, I don't know the New York Public Library.
• 1:08:12
  Like a Ghostbusters. That's a that's a big one.
• 1:08:14
  Yeah. Olson and Seinfeld.
• 1:08:16
  We have the the Kid and Rocky climbing up the stairs, kind of
• 1:08:20
  like Harkins back to the old days, if you will.
• 1:08:22
  Oh yes, these statues rock. You now can't quite make it.
• 1:08:24
  It's getting a little. Old.
• 1:08:25
  Well, you know, maybe it's asthma.
• 1:08:27
  Yeah, we got a cute little moment between the two.
• 1:08:29
  They talk about how the, you know, he's like, I've been up
• 1:08:31
  and down these stairs for 15 years and had no idea that there
• 1:08:35
  was a books up here. Books yeah yeah I disagree with
• 1:08:38
  his comment towards the statue about giving a pigeons a place
• 1:08:42
  to to sit yeah more of a place to shit yeah from the footage
• 1:08:46
  I've seen they. Sit and they shit.
• 1:08:48
  You don't want to sit where you're shit though.
• 1:08:50
  Well, they do, I mean. But I agree it's a little silly,
• 1:08:53
  yeah, but a great last line. I like everybody.
• 1:08:57
  Yeah, that's just I. Like pretty much everybody.
• 1:08:58
  Suits the character. I felt like he had better lines
• 1:09:02
  in the first half than the second-half, but this is a nice
• 1:09:04
  way at least finish it off with one of those lines.
• 1:09:06
  Yeah, I like it and I really love the song.
• 1:09:08
  The Elton John song Measurement, Man, I loved it.
• 1:09:11
  I bought the Rocky 5 soundtrack. That was Elton John's Elton
• 1:09:13
  John. I thought it was, but I was at
• 1:09:15
  that point I had, I still had it on, but I got up to kind of do
• 1:09:18
  some things. I'm just listening to it.
• 1:09:20
  It's on my playlist as it were, and I really liked the montage.
• 1:09:23
  I thought because at the time this is the end, right?
• 1:09:25
  Like the the principal ideas I heard later was that he was
• 1:09:29
  supposed to die. He changed his mind and
• 1:09:32
  obviously we got the ending we did.
• 1:09:33
  But at some point it was conceived that this would be the
• 1:09:35
  end of the Rocky story. That's the.
• 1:09:37
  Impression I got like this was the last one and that's kind.
• 1:09:39
  Of the part of the montage, he's with his kid, he's retired.
• 1:09:42
  Makes sense. And that ultimately was the next
• 1:09:44
  one didn't come out for like 16 more years, like, a long time.
• 1:09:47
  So for us, Rocky 5 is the culmination of this series.
• 1:09:50
  And I thought the montage and the song and the lyrics of the
• 1:09:53
  song kind of tell that story pretty well.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah. As a closing chapter to a story
• 1:09:59
  to a franchise, I thought if this is how it goes out, I was
• 1:10:02
  pretty happy with it. Whereas others, as you know,
• 1:10:04
  really don't like it at all. No, Evans.
• 1:10:07
  No. No, let's look at this from that
• 1:10:09
  perspective. Your take on the five we've
• 1:10:11
  watched not only where it ranks because we've still got a couple
• 1:10:14
  more to go. Last one where, where your head
• 1:10:19
  is at, kind of culminating this five part story.
• 1:10:21
  Well, Phillip, I think if say it was the last one, I would agree
• 1:10:27
  it's a good way to finish it. Yeah, it's good enough
• 1:10:29
  considering how much I've invested in the series and all.
• 1:10:32
  Again, I don't have this affinity for Stallone, but for a
• 1:10:35
  overall story about boxing, I thought it was complete OK.
• 1:10:41
  This movie on a stand alone I think is just held back a little
• 1:10:45
  bit by some performances and some choices with the story.
• 1:10:50
  But ultimately, I think it's overall one of the better ones.
• 1:10:54
  Yeah, OK. Just because I think it's one of
• 1:10:58
  the better stories. Yeah.
• 1:10:59
  It's unfortunate it wasn't executed as good as I I would
• 1:11:02
  have hoped. Due to reasons unknown, we don't
• 1:11:05
  know what goes on behind the scenes.
• 1:11:06
  But yeah, yeah. If I was to rank the Rockies,
• 1:11:09
  which were not. Not yet.
• 1:11:10
  Not yet. Eventually.
• 1:11:11
  But this would not be my least favorite.
• 1:11:14
  OK, Wouldn't be my favorite. OK?
• 1:11:18
  It would be somewhere in between.
• 1:11:19
  Fantastic. But I think it is better than
• 1:11:22
  people think it is OK and it is a.
• 1:11:24
  Little bit underrated. I'm sticking with it.
• 1:11:26
  I'm happy to hear it. Yeah.
• 1:11:27
  It's not a 5.4, it's a 5.8. Ultimately, I kind of follow the
• 1:11:32
  same. It's better than it probably
• 1:11:34
  should be as a fifth movie in a yeah with a character that is a
• 1:11:37
  thinly written character. Better than the 5th Jurassic
• 1:11:41
  Park, yeah. Exactly, I will say.
• 1:11:43
  That, and maybe even better than the fifth Die Hard.
• 1:11:45
  Who knows? OK.
• 1:11:48
  Now Gauntlet is down. OK.
• 1:11:51
  You asked for it. That's right.
• 1:11:52
  But but principally I think like this movie could have been a
• 1:11:56
  retread. You know, parts 3 and 4 don't
• 1:11:59
  bring a ton of different shades. I think the difference certainly
• 1:12:02
  between 4:00 and 5:00 is significant.
• 1:12:04
  And what they did with the character I thought was
• 1:12:06
  interesting. It's.
• 1:12:07
  Sacrificing, I think story for entertainment for sure.
• 1:12:10
  It's not the arcade. It's the SIM, right?
• 1:12:11
  Like there's this a different version, but I do think that
• 1:12:14
  it's hindered by performance. Tommy is probably your way you
• 1:12:18
  could have made. I think it is because Duke's
• 1:12:21
  Gray. He doesn't fight enough that you
• 1:12:23
  would need a fighter, I think. Right.
• 1:12:25
  Like Mr. T was not a fighter, he made it work.
• 1:12:29
  Carl Weathers was not a fighter, he made it work.
• 1:12:31
  Dolph Lundgren, not a fighter. You can make it work.
• 1:12:33
  So the choice to make lighter be the fighter, I would have said I
• 1:12:38
  would have rather you get an actor.
• 1:12:40
  He did less than all of. Them.
• 1:12:41
  Exactly. That's the fatal flaw, yeah.
• 1:12:43
  And Tommy is the supposed to be the number two?
• 1:12:45
  Yeah, Duke is good, sure, but he's number 456 even.
• 1:12:49
  He's the guy that comes in, steals a couple scenes and runs.
• 1:12:52
  Exactly. Tommy, you're holding Christmas
• 1:12:55
  dinner with the training stop, right?
• 1:12:57
  It's all waited on there. And I never liked him to begin
• 1:12:59
  with. So he breaks Rocky's heart.
• 1:13:02
  You're like, yeah, Rocky, you dummy.
• 1:13:04
  Like you shouldn't have trusted him.
• 1:13:05
  Exactly. That's why, that's why there's a
• 1:13:07
  category in the Oscars for best supporting actor.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah. It's very important.
• 1:13:11
  Yeah, exactly. And that's really where we can
• 1:13:13
  pinpoint the failure of this movie that really drops it down
• 1:13:16
  a couple points. Absolutely.
• 1:13:17
  I still think it's a worthy sequel, Right, That it's not
• 1:13:21
  what it could be like this. That's right.
• 1:13:24
  What could be yours every week is if you is subscribing to this
• 1:13:28
  podcast and you get it right in your pod catcher of choice,
• 1:13:32
  please rate it five stars and share it with any boxer, any
• 1:13:37
  boxers, any in Philadelphia, any managers, anybody you got.
• 1:13:41
  Yeah. Dead people.
• 1:13:43
  Look at this podcast like a little Angel on your shoulder.
• 1:13:46
  And when you're down and out, just remember Phil and Dave love
• 1:13:50
  you. Yes, me too.
• 1:13:52
  We're there for you. Yeah.
• 1:13:54
  Talk to you next week. Bye bye.