Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Neil Giraldo

Transcript

Neil Giraldo · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Says Podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist, producer, songwriter Neil Giraldo. Neil,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: when we were setting this up, I heard that you're
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: an early riser. How does that work with being a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: rock and roller.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Well, let me give you what they give me. You're
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: my philosophy to you, Bob, and I just want to say,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: you wanted a very few people that can actually pronounce
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: my name properly, So you in Giraldo, you made sure
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that usually they leave the l out. I don't know why, Gerardo,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: and I just don't get it. But there's the idea
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: about if you get up really early when it's dark,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and you go to sleep when it's dark, you get
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: two nights in every day. See how that works.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm very much a knight person, and that's a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: good line. So when do you get up and when
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: do you go to bed?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it could be as early as nine thirty, and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: it could be as late as eleven, and I wake
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: up usually three thirty, almost every day every day.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, one would say that's very little sleep.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: It is, but I think on percentages, the percentages of
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: nine thirty are a lot better than the percentages of eleven,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: except when I'm on the road or something, or if
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: in the studio. So yeah, it's just the thing. I
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: always been that way. I always get up early and
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: as soon as I want. The problem is is I
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: want to be awake, that's the problem. And when I
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: wake up, my mind just goes. I start writing immediately,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and it's great. I'm by myself, my dog, I light
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: a candle, the wife don't wake up till about seven
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: thirty eight. I'm there by myself or four hours.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So you write every day, every day. Tell me about that.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Well, that's not only songwriting, but the words. I have
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: a production company called bel Kiaso Entertainment, work on streaming
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: TV shows, episodes, episodic things, and anything that pops into
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: my head I kind of get carved into right away.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I don't pick up an instrument. It's usually just writing
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: scribbling that time. But sometimes they do that as well.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: So if you're on the road, what time do you
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: get up?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I kind of do the same thing. Sometimes it's more
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: like around five, but it doesn't matter what times, though, Bob,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: It's it's really terrible. I mean, if I go to
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the East coast. I'll still get up at like three
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: point thirty or four. I mean, it's bad. I've been
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: doing it for years forever, you know, kind of who
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I'm sort of the reverse. I like the nighttime on
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the other end, because as you say, it's very few
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: distractions the time as your own. Just before we started,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: you said, oh, I have to turn off my phone.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I'm in this text thread with all these comedians.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that about. Well, they dive into all
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. Not only them, they're journalists and writers,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: but they're just they're not only is a great information,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: they're very funny. You know, when I moved to New
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: York and I was twenty one years old, I this
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: is a I'll get to this better. The manager was
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: owned catch a Issing Star and it was a comedy club.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So basically it was in the comedy club every night,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: every night, every night. So all they become all friends,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: like Billy Crystal and Lenny Schultz, Gilbert Goffrey, Rodney Dagerfield,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: all those folks, right, So I was always surrounded, which
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: was great because working in a band and doing everything
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: you need to do to make music and make it
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: all right, you need comedy, you know, because you just
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: need to find it a way out so you can
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: clear your head and come back and be discharged and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: ready to do what you're supposed to be doing, what
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: is making music and writing songs.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: So who's on this thread?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't give you everybody. We had a couple
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: John de Bellis, eve middleman, Uh, Brian Caram who's actually
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: a White House journalist so he's on there, and a
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: bunch of other folks. It's just uh, it's just crazy,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: it's just fun. Well how many people totally Oh, there's
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: there's not many. They come and go. There's probably six
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: something like that. But they're just they're they're they're brilliant.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just funny and and things all the time.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: One one comedy John he lives in Nicaragua, so he's
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: in a whole totally other world. So yeah, person of
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Poup Spring, Sun of California, Spain, all over the place.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And what is usually the topic of conversation.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's political, it's political, but uh it could it
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: could swing. Like we were talking about David Johansson today.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: You know I did see your your your post today.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I did read I also read the the responses that
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: the folks do, and I just, you know, I just
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: have to apologize to you because I read everything that
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: you're right, and you're brilliant, You really are. You cover
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: so many basis and so many so much ground on
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: so many different subjects, which is what I really love.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And what I do is I don't usually read them.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I did today because I was gonna talk to you.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Usually usually I wait for a week or two weeks,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: and then I read it as a book, as each
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: one's a chapter, and then I read it like and
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I keep them my store them in a folder because
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: they're great reading and they're great to share to, you know,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: especially the music things to young people who I talk
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: to all the time, and I think it's brilliant writing.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: So anyway, you're talking about David Joe and the reason
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I don't and I'm not a oh, how do I
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: say this? Right? I'm not oh. I'm not trying to
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: make myself any better than anybody else here at all.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So really you got to understand what this comes from.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: But I generally don't like posting it because I don't
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: want to start with the word I. You know, I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: want the people to understand who that person is. So
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I saw when he did Jeff Beck, I's already to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: do all these people, and a lot of them I
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: do know and had, you know, relationships with them. But
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I don't like seeing, well I record to this record
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: for them or I try to leave that. It's really
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: hard for me to post any of that. So it's difficult.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, I completely understand that. But to be a successful musician,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you have to network and promote yourself.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I do realize that, and I must say that I'm
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: really bad at it, and I'm not the old guy
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: that says I ain't going to do so. I don't
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: want that, not that at all. If it disturbs my
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: creative time, which isn't the morning i'd rather tip. On
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: the other side, I do have to maybe I'll do
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: better this year. Right. I do post some things and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: people respond. I try to get back to it's really
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: hard for me, and I'm not I'm not that guy.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not that old guy that says I ain't going
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: to do any of the stuff. It's all bullshit. You know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: what's to go back to the telephone dial up or what.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not the guy, but I do need to promote
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: that stuff, so so help me, Bob, help me out.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Come on, Okay, let's go back to work. You get
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to me your work, and your manager is the guy
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: who runs catch a rising star forget his name?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Suddenly Rick Newman. Yeah, and how did that happen? Well,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: he came. He came a year later. I have to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: preface what happened before that. I was I'll give you
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the New York story because that's that's going to have
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: some entrance in the way my kind of life expanded.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: But when I got to New York, I was there
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to audition for Dan Hartman and Rick Derringer. And it's
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: because somebody saw me play in Cleveland at a club
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: and they asked me if I would be interested. I says, yeah, yeah,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of course, but let me talk to my bandmates because
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to do anything
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: behind your back. I want to make sure they're okay
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: with me doing it. Maybe if I get the gig,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I won't be able to be in the band. So
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I went up there and I auditioned for Rick first,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: and after I got done, I says, well, I got
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: an audition for Dan Hartman next. He goes, no, you don't.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean not doing? He goes, well,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: ain't going anywhere? Well, I said, do I got the gig?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: He goes not yet. I said, okay, So there's a
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: lot of humor in this, and then I'll get to
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: get to rising star. But there's a lot of humor
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: in this. Because I was standing outside the door. I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: had a white T shirt on, a pair of jeans,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: a rope belt, a pair of white sneakers slip on
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: sneakers kids, and I saw this guy walk out and
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I heard him playing, and he was amazing, like an
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: amazing guitar player. He came out, hair beautiful, all poory
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: in his studs, leather jacket, leather pants, shoes. He goes, hey,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: how you doing, kid? I go, oh, I'm good. But
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: your name he goes, Rudy Valentino. I went, oh, shit,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Rudy Valentino, Neil Geroldo. How I got a chance with this?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I thought, I felt like just turning around and walking
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: out of sires, this isn't gonna happen. But I did
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: go in there and and I did get on with
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: her quite well. So I went home back to Cleveland,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: and he asked me to come back, and eventually I
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: got I had to go write some new music, so
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I wrote a couple songs, came back, played it for him.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: He goes, okay, all right, all right, I think you're okay,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And because I played two and that kind of helped
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. But anyway, so you got to progress
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: a year later, and that's when I met Patricia. And
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Rick Newman was Patricia's manager and then he became my
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: manager as well. So in the early days, which would
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: have been set in nineteen seventy nine in the month
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of May, always in Catcher Isaac Star for years and
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: years and years after all the time, and that's where
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: all the comedians were, and they would always do their
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: routines and then they'd come into the bar or where
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I would be, and then they would say, what do
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: you think about that? Let me do Then they do
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: their routine again, something different to see what I thought.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And they were now super super great, super great people
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and real nice and I just enjoyed that and it
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: was a lot of laughs, a lot of good times.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You're playing in your band in Ohio.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Do you have dreams of making it at the time
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of going to the coast being a recording person. Are
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: you just doing what you're doing?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I had, I had big dreams, but I thought they
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: were shattered and I thought they were gone. I I
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: was a very sick child. I'll get to that. I'd
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: get to that later, but really really sick. I had
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: terrible health when I was younger, really really bad. But
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I got to the point where I thought, well, I'm
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: not gonna make it as a as a rock and
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: roll quote guitar player, It's not gonna happen. I could
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: play piano. And some of my you know heroes, we
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: were jazz people. But Paul Eric Gardner, you know, Bill Evans,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: all the great winscomb as dou Kellyton, all those folks. Right,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: So I studied a lot of piano, and I thought, well,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I could get married, I can have a couple of kids.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I can live in Cleveland and the weekends I'd go
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: play cocktail bars and just play piano. That's probably the end.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: But then a very successful, very good musician, great musician
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: named Kevin Rally who was in a bad called Michael
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Stanley Band. He wanted to put a band together and
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: he thought it would be fun. We can, but they
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: were terrible venues. It was like a lounge band, it was.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And then we'd move around, play a different instruments. Okay,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: So and I thought, well, this is where it's going.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be that cocktail piano player. So my
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: dreams were shattered. I was playing up there hoping, but
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and then somebody saw me and said, what are you
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: doing here? You need to be with another top name artist,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and I went okay. Then I got the I went
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: up to New York and that's how began.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Do you know where you were playing and who saw you? Yeah?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: At he was at the Brown Derby restaurant in Cleveland.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what city was it. And the guy
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: that saw me, his name was Tracy Coates. You know, Bob, everybody,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I think you can count five people. You can count
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: the five people that I won't get metaphysical and getting
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: a different play in here, but five people that changed
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: your life. Five people. This guy was one of. His
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: name is Tracy Coates, and he owned a PA company
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and meaning he would do He was from Cleveland, but
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: he did a lot of shows nationally, right, so he
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: always heard about all the different musicians and bands that
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: were looking for players, right, So that's how it was.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: He saw me, and he was a great guy and
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: he thought I played, thought it was pretty good. I
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: don't know. And that was the guy. He's one of a.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Five, okay, a little slower. So he sees you. Does
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: he come up to you at the end of the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: gig and say, hey, I'm going to hook you up
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: or you home in the phone rings? How does it
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: actually happen? Do you end up with auditions for Darren
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: jer and Hartman? Yeah?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: He's what he did is it was we took a break.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: You know that you do three sets. We did one
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: set and I just went out to grab a smoke,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: have a cigarette, you know, And as I'm walking through
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: the crowd, he comes out. He goes, hey, I'm Tracy
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Coates and man, you can play whenever and would you
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: be interested? I said, really, of course I would be.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: He goes, well, here's my number, call me and I'll
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: say her. And that's how it happened. He set it
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: up about a weekly after my band. I must say
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: this is you know, excuse me, it's important you're playing
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: in a band you'd be true to and uh, you
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: know you that's who you're with, and you have to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: ask them if it's okay, and they all said, yeah, sure,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: no problem, no problem. The ironic part of this, Bob,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: this is where the universe steps in the other guitar
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: player bass player because I played bass in their guitar
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: and keyboards all this stuff. You know, he went up
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to audition for Derrenger before me, but he never told anybody.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Oh so, and and the real weird part about this
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: is he came up there for the final five. Who's
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: in the final five? And he's And I was shocked
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: to see that he was there and go, what are
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: you doing here? He goes, well, you know I've been
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: up here. I went what I never knew, never knew. Right,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: he's a great guy too, but that was real weird.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: So we were and we were rooming together in a hotel.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: We only had one one day, one night, and then
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: we'd have to fly home. I'd have to fly home
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: the next day. And so the manager called for Rick
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and said, when a thing, thank you. You're gonna love this, Bob,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: because this is a great call. He says, I really
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: want to thank you for your time and your effort.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Rick really liked the way you played. Really, I just
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: want to wish you the best, and you know, thank
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: you for coming up. Bob thinking, I looked, pointed at
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: the guy. Go you got it, dude, right. He goes,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: can you just come by and say talk to Rick
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit? He was in the it's on fourteenth Street.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I think are close to it, right by Real Sweeney's
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: in Manhattan. So I said, sure, I'll go down. I
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was really disappointed. Bum dot I walked. I mean, I
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: got in the cab, opened the door, Rick opened me in.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: He stood there, he goes, shook my hand. He goes,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: come on in, you're in the band. I went, I'm
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: in the band. It was. It was profound, it really was.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: And then he hands me an explorer, a guitar, Gibson
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: explorer with a serial number like fifty four, some ridiculous one.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: And we go back in the brown storm. We're jam
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and I'm saying, Rick, I got really good ears. I
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: could say that, but my eyes are really bad. You
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: got a lot of lamps around here. I go, dude, man,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't be holding this guitar. And we just jammed,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: like for hours, and that's how I got the gig
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and went back to the hotel. I says, Rogers just
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: looked at me and goes, you got the gig, right,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I go, I did. I'm sorry. You know, I felt
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: bad for him. You know, that's you know, everybody had
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: those hopes and dreams and it just worked out.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So what ended up happening to him and what ended
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: up happening to the rest of the band.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Oh well, the rest of the band, they kind of
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: just split up. He just worked I think origionally in
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Ohio with different bands and stuff, and Kevin actually became
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: He's a great guy. Kevin had a great voice, great writer,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: a great keyboard player. He became manager of the Dead
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Kennedys and a few other bands. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: it was It was interesting. And then the drummer had
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a real bad health scare during COVID, but he again
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: went to play with some other bands. I thinks, so
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: they just they just stayed there.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, Ohio, you know right now it has been for
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: years somewhat to press, you know, the steel industry and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: other things going on. I'm always amazed at Ohio. You
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: drive through, There's this place in the middle of nowhere
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: with all these people. So you're growing up in Ohio.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: You know Rick Deringer was from Ohio, wasn't he? And
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you have Joe Walsho's from New Jersey, but he makes
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it in the Ohio. Yeah. The Michael Stanley band who
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: gets a number of shots that never really breaks through.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So when you were Ohio, is there someone that you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: pointed to and said, Okay, I want to be like
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: him or did you feel like, man, I'm in the
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. Well, it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Felt like the middle of nowhere one way, and in
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: another way it didn't because it gave all the musicians
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: and people that lived in a blue collar, very tough,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: tough town, Steel Town a chance to find an escape path.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Right And since I was sick, and i'll go into
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that thing right now, is that you know I was
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: sick from the day I was born for years and years.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: It wasn't until I was saying, like sixteen fifteen sixteen
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: where I thought I didn't get over and I did.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: But then I had a relapse when I was about twenty.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: But then I eventually got through it. But I'll get
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to that whatever it is. But I didn't feel I
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: didn't feel small in that town. I really liked. I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: liked the mentality of a blue of a blue collar
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: work ethic, because the people there really work hard. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: when you had to go do gigs, you had to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: drive through snowstorms, your hands would freeze your knuckles, your
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: cars wouldn't start. You slam your hands in the door.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, all that stuff which gives you a purpose,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: makes you think about, think about who you are and
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: where are you're gonna go, and it keeps you strong.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: You don't there's no chance for you to get soft
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: in a town like that. So to me it was
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a It was a real blessing. So I didn't feel small.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And I always believe this, and I believe this from
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: then till till the day I die. Is that if
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: you have a great song or you have talent, you
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: will be found.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: You won't.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: You won't disappear unless you unless for some reason it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: you're not prepared, it's not going to work out for you,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: which happens sometimes, you know. But if you have a
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: great song, people are going to hear that song. You know,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: even without the Internet, they'll hear it. You'll be found,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: you will.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So what term did you grow up in Ohio?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: In a town, a little town called Parma outside of Cleveland,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: but it was very close to the Cleveland tracks. All
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the Italians Sicilian because of Sicilian. On one side of
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the three were all the Sicilian. The other side were
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: the Ukrainians. So it was very weird. And that'll go
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: back to my name too, but it was they thought
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the town of Parma, when they're coming from Bronte Katania,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Sicily and they come into America, Parama, let's go live
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: for that. It's gotta be Italian town, right, So a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: lot of Sicilians and like I said, Ukrainians. I'll go
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to this because we're on the subject of Cleveland's. When
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I was born, I was I had the cord wrapped
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: around my head on my neck multiple multiple times, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: when I came out, I was suffocated from I wasn't
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: a blue baby, but I was the next step down,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the next step up from that, so I couldn't breathe
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: and they thought they were gonna lose me. My parents.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: My parents were Anthony Geraldo, my mother, Angelomettia Geraldo, my
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: sister Priscillamettia Geraldo, Neil Geraldo. How does that happen? Bob, Well,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: let me tell you how it happens. So here I am.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not born, they slap, they do the whole thing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not breathing. They go into a panic back then,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: so they take me. It takes a while they bring
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: me to be. I finally come in. My parents were
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: so relieved that they didn't lose me and that I
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: didn't die and end up a blue, blue baby, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: that's the end. Right. But the doc there's name was
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Cornelius Cassidy. So I was supposed to be Nunzio Nunzio
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: or Nunziato Nunziato Geraldo. Right, Instead I became Neil and
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: not Cornelius because of doctor Cassidy. So that's how I
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: got my name, bringing me into this life. So from
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the minute I was, I came out of the womb,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I was, I was, I was, I was all planned
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: out for me to be dealing with, Oh, the the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: crazy uh oh, the emotional sickness of what that means,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: you know, suffocating the day you were born, you know is.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: So tell me more about this illness and other health problems. Yeah.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: So, so I went to school at a very early
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: age because I was born in December. My mother wanted
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: to get me out of the house, right, you gotta
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: go to the house. But I was sick. My stomach
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: was always terrible, always sick. And then I had this
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: emotional thing with this claustrophobia where the walls were always
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: too tight and it was always too hot in those rooms.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: And then I got to then I group from claustrophobia
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: to agoraphobia, where I had fear of the outside of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the with all people. You know, I was going. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: was going, like mentally off the rails. And every time
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I go to school, elementary school, did the principal, the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: people there would call my mother and say, you know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you got to come and pick up your son. He's
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: sick again. It was all the time, and I barely
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: was in school. I went to a Catholic school. I
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: went to a public school first and a Catholic school,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: and I missed confirmation and things that you normally do
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: in school because I was sick, always sick, and those
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: emotional things took a toll. But what they did do
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: is when I was six years old, my father bought
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: me a guitar because they wanted me to do duets.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: My sister, who played accordion and so we can do
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Italian songs. That was a good idea, except my uncle
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Timmy on the other side of the family, my grandfather
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: passed away at an early age, so he didn't have
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: a father, and he was sort of the mistake of
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the family. He became a mentor, so in essence, he
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: kind of lived with our family, and he was only
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: four years older than me. So and from playing Italian
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: songs with my sister, then all of a sudden, the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Yardbirds are coming in and all the other bands, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: then he started feeding me with all these other things.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: So this emotional thing, the idea that I had a
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: guitar in my hands, it just felt really normal and
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: felt right, and it was escape from life because it
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: was really difficult for me to handle the emotional thing.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'd walked through the door at school and
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I immediately felt like I have to throw up, you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: my stomach got oh, I can't be here. This is terrible,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: and then it was it was.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Awful, Okay, So mostly the problem was emotional mental. Did
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you ever see a professional and how did you ultimately
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: get over it or do you still wrestle with these
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: issues today? Well?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: What I found out today is that I have an
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: abnormality in one part of my boy that there was
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: actually a reason why the physical part. So the mental
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: part was real, but the physical part was real as well,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: and that nobody you got to understand that Cleveland and
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Parma is on the west side of Cleveland, Shaker Heights
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Pepper Pike is on the east side. When I was
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: growing up, I didn't even know what golf was. There
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: was no golf course around where I lived. I didn't
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: know what that even was. On the east side, they
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: had golf courses and they had doctors, real doctors. It
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: was the rich side of the city. I lived on
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the foreside. So my parents I go to a doctor.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I went to the Italian doctor. We say, eat more garlic,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: e moore garlic, drink some wine. So I got a
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: little poor wine for dinner. You know, That's all they said.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you didn't get it. You couldn't get it fixed.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: So the emotional part was really really difficult. But since
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: that physical part was with such a stress on my body,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I the two together were a nightmare. It was just
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I just it was horrible.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: So how did you ultimately get over it? Both of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: these I got over it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: One of the five people, you know, the hand of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the five is the trace, quotes this girl. Her name
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: was Tara Bruno, Tera Bruno. You have to be listening
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to this when it comes out. You need to know this.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And she knows it already. Anyway, she was she wanted
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to She was a friend of mine, and she I
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: think she thought it was more like a girlfriend boyfriend,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: but I was more. I was thinking it was just
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: like a friend, like a girlfriend. I think it was
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: like twelve years old or something. And she went to
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: California and she came back and goes, I got to
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: tell you something. Two really great things happen, and you
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: kind of really love him. I says, Okay, what is it?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: He goes, number one, it's a avocado, Swiss cheese, lettuce, tomato,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: mayonnaise on rye toast sandwich. I went, what's an avocado?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: That sounds beautiful? She goes, Oh, it's great. It's great.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you want. I go fantastic, goes. And
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: another thing that I found was this book called The
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Yea Ching. And I says, what is that? She goes,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: it can predict your future, and her and I would
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: lay on these blankets in those Cleveland evenings in the summer,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: we look up and we see the stars. Well, we
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: threw the coins in the e ching, and I still
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: have that paper somewhere. I have to go find that
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: one day. I know I have it. I stored away
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: in like momentos things. But we did throw it, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: it said that I would get my wish and my
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: dream would come through. But you have to follow these
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: rules and these laws of the spiritual realm of the eachan.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: That book saved my life. Without that book, without Terra Bruno,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here period. That book did it without it?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: No way, no way.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: You're a very verbal friendly guy, Yet you say you
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: grew up internalized in not going to school that much.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Where does all this verbal facility come from?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Because when I wasn't in school, I was reading. I
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: love to read, and I would try to get every book.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Library was my friend, every book I could possibly get
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: my hands on and read. And I to this day
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: i'm and I avid read. I read all the time.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: And it's really kind of the other part that's saved me.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: But with the eaching, let me just give you an
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: idea where the Eaching lives in my life for a second.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: The day that Tracy Coates saw me play at the
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: brown Derby that night driving up and it was in
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: a winter it was like February maybe something like that,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: really bad, very cold, and I'm pulling up this place
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and the way those gigs went. You play there for
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a month, right, you play for three weeks a month
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: and you go to the next place three weeks. So
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I pull up. I'm just pissed off, angry, right, just like,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: damn it, Why do I got to do this? This
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: is terrible, sliding all over the road. I have my
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: sixty three and Paula. I always have to park really
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: far away from the club. I have to walk. I'm
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: dropping the guitar and the case, banging my hands that
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: way right, whining like a little chooch. Right, So I go,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna use the eching
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get really embraced
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: in what this was going to give me today or
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: what I'm gonna be able to create myself. Let me
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: just focus on it. I pull in a parking lot
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: and I swear to you, this is absolute truth. I
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: pull into a parking lot. The very first place for
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: parking opens up right in front of the door. I
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: got there, shut the car off, I lit up a cigarette,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: opened the window, I smoked a cigarette. I went, this
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: is something's gonna happen tonight, something profound is going to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: change my life. And that was the night that Tracy
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Coate saw me. And that's how my life changed from
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that moment.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the family. Were your parents born
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in America or the Old Country in America?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: My grandparents came over.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So how heavy an influence was the Italian background?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Heavy? Heavy, really heavy. I mean, besides all the people
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: on the street that were Sicilian. My next door neighbor
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: was great. His last name was Alardo, and I couldn't
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: pronounce it, and I'd give people nicknames. I called it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: mister Jim. He would be the guy who would cut
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: tires and staple tires on my soles and my shoes.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And I walk in the house and I walked and crooked,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and my mother goes, did you see mister Jim again?
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Did he fix your shoes? I go, he did. They're
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: working real good right now, thanks mom. You know, so
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of Italian spoken in the house.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: But you know, my father was really proud to be
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: an Italian American, you know, born in the country, so
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: we really were. They really didn't want to press the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: speaking of Italian. But the Italian songs were really important, right,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: just like Catholic church and you know, all the Italian
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Catholic upbringing stuff very important.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So and what did your parents do for a living?
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Father was a carpenter, one of the toughest human beings
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: on earth, but one of the sweetest guys and just
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the greatest great if he's the fire, he's one of
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: the five. Because this man is I love him so much.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: He passed away. He was ninety six. In fact, one
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: day he called me, he goes, son of bitch. Son,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think I'm ever gonna die. I go, pop,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: You're gonna die one day. Trust me, it's gonna happen,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: son a bitch. I don't think so very very tough.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Really really, I can't even begin to tell you how
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to one story, he's got the snowblow where he bought
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: for fifty bucks or whatever, and he's doing the sidewalks.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: All sudden it clogs up. He doesn't shut it off.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: He puts his hand in there, clips off the little
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: piece of his finger. It goes flying with the blood
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: spray following it behind trailing. He goes, goes, he had
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: this little thing he did like this, He goes, son
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: of a bitch, son, go find my finger. And I
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: went found his finger packed in the snow. He went
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to the hospital and put it back on. So but
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: that's that's the hardcore part of him. That the heart,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: the heart of him is. He never had a negative
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: thing to say, my sickness and being home or anything.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: He would always say, you know, if that guitar makes
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: you feel better, and playing the piano, do it, do it? Son.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: You know he wanted me to be a carpenter, but
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: he didn't force it on me. Let me give you
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: an idea too. He was a carpenter, work for other people.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: He was at a house somewhere. He'd come home with
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: a piano. I go, pap, where'd you get the piano from? Me? Go?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Do you want it? I go, sure, I want it
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: was an upright with some broken keys, and I said, sure,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: I'd like it, and he put it in the basement.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: That's how I started playing piano because they gave it
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: to somebody gave it to him because he was so
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: kind and so thoughtful, thoughtful of a man that, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I wish I could be, you know, a quarter of
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: the man he was, because he was just the greatest
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: of all.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: What about your mother?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: My mother was more like a disciplinarian.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I had this philosophy I think is wrong, where one
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: parent has to be passive the other one has to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: be assertive. I think that's wrong. But in my house
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: it was that way. My mother was the assertive. My
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: father was passive. Sometimes I walked through the door and
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: my father would say, don't say anything, it's not your fault,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: but you're gonna probably hear it's your fault. I say, okay,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I walked through and there it was right. So so yeah,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: she but she was the disciplinarian one. She was the
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: one when I was playing, uh, you know, street football
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: outside in the snow, and she'd come and yell out
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: out of the window, it's time to come in and practice, son.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Come on, you got to come in and all the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: all the boys where all the you know, all my
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: buddies are going man mine, are you coming in to play?
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: You can't play when you know, give me shit about them.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Oh man, my hands will be frozen. I have to
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: play these stupid songs. I for not the Italian songs,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: but I took lessons for I think a year and
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: a half or two years. It was horrible. The guy
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: farted in the room. He smoked cigarettes and I had
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: to deal with that was horrible. But my mother made
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: sure I played oh man, Joe and uh well Santa
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Luccia too. But you know, somebody else is like, oh,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not this isn't working for me. That part, that
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: part ain't working.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: This was guitar lessons or piano listens.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: This was guitar.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you were playing the Italian songs. You know,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: we're contemporaries. You're born in fifty five. What is the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: rock and roll inspiration? Was it the Beatles or did
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: it come before that? Or was it none of that?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And just your uncle in the yard bruders?
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, it was It was in ninety It was I
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: think I was five years old. It's five years old
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: and my mother was playing Heartbreak Hotel by Elvis and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I was in the other room and I went, what
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: is that? And I ran in I remember to this day,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I'm listened. I sat in front of the year old
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: enough to remember this. The Wi Fi, the high Fi sorry,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: the hip fhissist, the console Hi Fi systems.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Right of course you could.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Sit in the middle and then the two speakers were
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: on the side and it had a two bamp fire
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm listening to this, and I'm here's what defined
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: me in oh, well, sort of in the music world,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: right when I heard the sparseness of that song, Heartbreak Hotel,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Heartbreak Hotel, and I heard Elvis's voice resonate, the richness
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: of it, and the reverb and all that spatialness. The
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: guitar had its own part, but it was really defined
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and often the left and the bass was thumping, and
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: the drums were small, not small, big in sound, but
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of air, reverb, distinct, huge reverb happening kick it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I deciphered what was going on with that record. At
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: five years old, I says something about this is what
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I want to do. I want to which I didn't
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: know what producer, I didn't know what arrange any of
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: that meant, but I didn't know that I wanted to
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: make records that sounded like that. Not only did I
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: want that. When I saw the RCAA dog the nipper
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: go around and RCAA round and round and around, I
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: went that labels really great looking and I loved art.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I would have went to art school, but my mother
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: said it was stupid, I shouldn't go, so I didn't go.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I should have went, but I didn't go. But by
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: seeing those labels, that was just as powerful as the
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: music coming out to me. Right, So I knew then
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to play instruments because I wanted to
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: create that sound. I wanted that sound. I wanted that feel.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: You know that it was. It really was lonesome. It
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: was a person walking to their death. Not in a
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: negative not the darkness of it. But you know how
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: the somberness that the richness of that record to me
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: just really sunk into me. Really did it hit me?
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, So did you watch the Beatles on Ed Sullivan?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I did, I did it. I didn't get that as much.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't get it. I I don't.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Know, what is that?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Sixty four? It? Yeah, sixty four. I mean I got that,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: but it didn't it didn't resonate to me as as
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: much as as you know hearing that office record and things.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I I thought it was I thought it was amazing.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I just I couldn't understand why they were screaming all
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the time, you know, they said, you know, I just
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: don't understand all the screaming, you know, the headshaking. I
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: don't know. I just it didn't kind of didn't kind
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: of settle settle into me, you know. I mean I
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: thought it was cool, but it wasn't.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So tell me about your uncle of the Yardbirds.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Uncle Tim was he was great. He took
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: me to see to who when I was twelve years old.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: That that changed my life. That was it, because I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: was listening to the Stones and the Kinks. You know.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: He had all those records and he'd you know, we'd
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: have them and we'd play them all the time, and
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: it was it was phenomenal. But he was the guy
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: he was. He'd be the guy who said, you're gonna
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: listen to heart full of Soul and you're gonna play
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: it right. And I'd be playing you a heartful soul.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: You know, now, this is great. Go doesn't sound good?
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean it doesn't sound good?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: He goes, it doesn't sound good? Coming out of an
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: app you need like a distortion what is a distortion pillow? Well,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you got to get what we got to get you
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: on and that he was the guy. And then when
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I saw Pete Townsend play at the Music Carnival and
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: the Who and Daltry with the swing and the mica
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a all like this and Peete just tearing it up,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: and then I saw that and I went, that's resonating
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: because it represented to me growing up in a blue
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: collar town like Cleveland. It represented that it wasn't it
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't the Beatles. To me, it was that
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: that you know you're on stage, you're giving it everything
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: you got, like the Jerry Lee Lewis blood is what
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I call it. You hit the stage, give it all,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: give it, give it all there, everything you have, and
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: then when you walk away, you get off the stage,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: you go back to your other kind of life. So
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: that really did it. And the concert was crazy because
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: they only played three songs, and they destroyed all the
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: gear because Pete didn't like the sun amps. And then
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: they were walking out and then we went to come
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: back in because they said the concert is still going
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: to go on. They're gonna use the opening band equipment.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So we went in there. But that day I get
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: back home and I turned my little tiny epiphone INP
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: but I turned it up to ten and I went, ooh, ooh,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: this is kind of fun, this is working.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: So so when did you first start playing in bands?
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: When I was eleven eleven something like that, and we
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: were eleven and twelve, and my uncle Tim was the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: lead singer, so it was being four years older, and
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: we called the band. It was stupid, stupid name. It
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: was called neok and Eel, really dumb, stupid name. But yeah,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: that was the first band.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Well did you just rehearse to the living room or
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: did you play gigs.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: In the basement rehearsing the base We did gigs. We
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: have to sneak me in through the back door, you know,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and I'd get there to here as this little kid
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: up there playing and you know, we were doing whatever.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, but whatever. We had to play songs.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: We were just playing them, and yeah, it was weird
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: because we'd be playing a memory, were playing them, going Wow,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: that guy looks like like I'm playing them. They going,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: what the hell is he gonna do? It looks like
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: he's gonna beat the shit out of me. Where am
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: I playing? What am I doing? Are they angry? You know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: sneaking me into pars places behind in the backstage and stuff.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: So so we did that for a while. That didn't
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: last very long, and then I started playing with other bands,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: other guys in the neighborhood and stuff.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in high school. To what degree are
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you playing gigs in a band?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, it was because because I was that younger
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: guy was five years old in the first grade. So
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know add up what that is. I don't
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: know what I was as a freshman or whatever. But
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I was playing. I was playing out all the time
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: with you know, different bands that we were putting together
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: and stuff. Yeah, all the time. What did you do
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: with the money there was? It really wasn't much. I
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: don't remember eating after the gig. We'd go to eat
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: at like two o'clock in the morning, two thirty in
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the morning. That's all I remember. There was no money,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, no money.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: We just did it. And what did you use for equipment? Then?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I had my little epaphone app and then this
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: guy down the street was he worked at the steel mills,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: and it was kind of cool. He had a band too,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: and the guitar player in that band his name was
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: philm Megalarino, and he had this quiver when you know
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: the vibrato, we called it a quiver, and he played
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: this red guild starfire. I remember really well, and I remember,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: you know, sitting there that's all around, that eleven twelve
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: year old thing, and I'm watching him. I'm going, man,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: he got a great quiver. I gotta get that thing right.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: But this guy that's where they rehearsed at his house
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: worked in the steel mills, and his uncle worked at
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: his shipping location the dock, and Marshall amplifiers were coming
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: through there. He was able to get him really cheap,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: really cheap. So I said, Papa, I'll work with you.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I'll do whatever it is I have to do. These
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Marshall apps are like really great, and you know, I
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: think they're only like, I know, three hundred, three hundred dollars.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: That's that's a lot of money. I said, I know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: but I'll pay a bag pop. So I got a
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Marshall Marshall amp so I had there, I go, I
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: had this, I had a stack when I was like
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: thirteen or something or fight, I don't know, fourteen, something
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's jump forward. M Rick says, you've got the gig.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: What did that look like? Did you go back to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Ohio and wait for the call to go on the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: road or stay in New York?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went. I went back to Ohio. I went
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: back to Ohio, he says, get your you know, things
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: in order, affairs in order. So I got back there
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: and I just I thought it was kind of funny
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: because all the girls I thought were real cute, they
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: didn't have time to talk to me. We're all of
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: a sudden ready to talk to me now, which I
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: thought that was. That was kind of cool, you know, yeah, yeah,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: you know, cause man, they weren't paying attention to me.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I was that weird, weird kid in school, you know that,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: you know, no loaner guy, nobody would talk to you know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it's kind of weird, you know. I didn't feel like
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I really connected with most people there, and there I
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: am walking around. But yeah, then I got my things
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: together and I had one guitar and SG gipson SG.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I went up and then I Rick says, Okay, here's
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: all the songs we're gonna do. But you need another guitar.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: You can't be playing that. I need you. You need
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: to play BC Rich. That's what I play. He goes,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: but you can have anything you want, but not what
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I have. Then he hooked me up with BC Rich
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and that's how I started playing the BC Rich Eagles
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: through that. Now that the peculiar thing, you know, because
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: life is this is a comedy, right, it really is,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: you meaning me? You join Rick Darringer, Okay, and you
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: end up recording a record with Rick and it's called
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Guitars and Women. Now, then my life goes forward, you know.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: But a record Guitars and Women is kind of ironic
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: in a way, right. So, and the other part was
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't play much guitar and I played most mostly piano.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: If you if you want to hear some of the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: stuff I did. There's a song called Everything, another song
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: called Hopeless Romantic. Now. I was playing a lot of
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: piano back then, a lot of guitar too, But I
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: respected Rick. He was such a great player. If he
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: didn't want me to play guitar on it's okay, I'll
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: play piano, but i'll play on the record.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, you go back to Ohio to get your affairs together.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Then do you go to New York to rehearse? Where
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: do you live? When do you go on the road?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I go to live at my favorite place, the hotel
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I was in when I got the call, the Wellington
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Hotel and what is it fifty eighth or fifty seventh
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: and seventh, And that was my home. And there was
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: a guy named Pops there by the way. I am
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: writing a book. I've been writing one for about ten years.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Hopefully I get it finished at one point there. But
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Pops was great. Pops would go and he'd get me
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: some beer and pizza if I wanted, and he told
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: me stories of all the old actors and actresses that
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: came through the place. He was a phenomenal, phenomenal guy,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: was a great guy. And I remember I always wanted
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a room by the e and the Wellington, you know,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: and it just with the neon light. It was just
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: super super cool. So I lived there and and we
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: just rehearsed for a little while and then off off
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: in a row we went. And the way we went.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, any anxiety, any imposter syndrome?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the first show. When I did the first show,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I got back after and Rick goes, what did you do? Go?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: I go, Rick, I'm really sorry. I was so nervous. Right,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I went from playing two hundred and fifty people to
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: whatever five thousand I mean then went Eventually we did
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: stadiums and did everything. And I said, I'm really sorry.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I was just so nervous. I said, I'll tell you what.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I'll make you a deal. It will never happen again,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: never ever happen again. And I told myself and I practiced.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I focused, I got strong, got the eaching book out,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: got it together. But that was I remember his face.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I picked you because I felt you were the best one,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh boy, I really screwed this up.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: So never did again.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're a young man on the road. Are you
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: partaking in the fruits of the road.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about, Bob?
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Those fruits?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: What is that hanging fruits you're talking about? Well, back
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: back to the thing where nobody paid attention. There was
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of attention you paid at that time. But
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I but I was really I was really focused. I
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: was focused on making a career and really really making
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: sure I do this right, And I didn't. I didn't
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: partake into drugs, you know, I didn't do any of that.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: You know. I drinking some stuff, but but nothing, nothing
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: excessive at all. I practiced a lot, played a lot.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was all over the place.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: So how long did it last with Rick?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I think it was about a year and a half.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we got done and uh we were
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: doing the record guitars and women, and there was eventually
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: there'll be tense songs, right, So I played on maybe
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I think eight of them, I'm not sure eight and
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: then there was two more to go, and and Rick says,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't really need you on the last two.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: And you know I was. I was kind of depressed
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: a little. I said, you know, I could still do
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: any I can still do something. I could play some
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: rhythm guitar if you want. I mean, I'll eve an engineer.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: If you want anything you want me to do, I'll
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: do for you. And he says, no, I don't. I
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: don't think so. And as a manager, you had two managers.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: One guy was named Teddy slatis. Well, Teddy Slatist said
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: to me, he goes, how about a free trip feet
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: a free ticket back to Cleveland. I went, mmm, mmm, interesting,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: a free ticket. He was always a smart ass, always
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: a wise ass. Right, So I'm at the place. Here's
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: back to the eaching. I'm at this. We recorded in Woodstock,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: by the way, which was good fun doing that, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Kenny here and said, and myself and the crew were
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: all living in one part, and Rick and the rest
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: and mind and the drummer. We're in another part. And
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: they have they had the house, and we had this
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: little avery there. It was all totally cool. Anyway, So
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: here's where the e ching comes back in. So you know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: he says, well, Teddy says, okay, your free tickets ready,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: you know, leave tomorrow. Okay, I'll leave tomorrow. Well, thank you.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: So there I have I drink tea. I don't try coffee.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I drink green tea, and a lot of it. So
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting there a green tea and I'm thinking, oh geez,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: what am I going to do next. I'm reading my
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: eaching book this thing, getting ready to go in the
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: car to go from Woodstock to LaGuardia, which you know
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: is one of the worst airports in the world, was
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: even bad back then. I get in the car and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I got my suitcase in there. I'm ready to go in,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: ready to close the door. The guy in the in
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the studio the kitchen says, you know, somebody's on the phone.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: They need to talk to you. It's really important. I go, yeah,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and that's really too important right now, I'm going back
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: to Cleveland. Is any fun? He goes, No, I think
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: you really need to take this call. Some guy from
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: a record company, he said, needs to talk to you.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And I says, oh, come on, he goes, He goes,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's real. I said, all right, So I
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: went inside and picked up the phone. The guy's talking.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, okay, it was just like a little Louis
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: busting my balls over there in Cleveland, giving me, you know,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: trying to be a jerk or whatever. And guy says, go, no, no,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: this is I'm serious. I want you to meet this
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: singer who wants to put a band together and doesn't
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: have a band and really looking for that partner. And
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I said, well, all right, it's interesting. I had some
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: other gigs, some other bands that were interested. I had
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: two other bands that were in the play that I
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: could to join or work with and stuff. So I
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: wasn't like I had no gig, but I wanted to
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: be with Rick. I wanted to finish a record. So
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to guy goes. He goes, listen, I Mike Chapman,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: who produced. If I wasn't so romantic, i'd shoot you
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: by Rick Darringer the record before the one you did
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: just now. Saw you on the road with Rick and
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: thought you would be a great person to be with
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: this other person that I want you to meet, because
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: you you know song structure, you write songs, you multi
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: versed in other instruments. You're You're not a show like
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: a showbo guy. You know you want to play song.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: That's because I really want That's all I wanted to do.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I was not that type of player that just can virtuoso.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I was never that guy. I just want to write
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: songs and play play instruments. So I'm talking. He goes, Okay,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: all you got to do is meet this person in sir,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Can you do it today? I says yeah. Can I
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: get a free ticket to Cleveland? I had one, but
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: it could be no good anymore. Can I get a
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: free ticket? He goes, no problem. I says, okay, what
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: about if something goes good and I stay. He goes,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I'll take care of you. I said, okay, fair enough.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Now I had a girlfriend at the time too, so
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: this this she was living in Connecticut, but whatever, that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't going so good. So anyway, I go down. But
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: before I go down, I mentioned I says, well, who's
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: this guy? Maybe I heard of him. He says, no,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: it's not a guy. It's a girl. And I went
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a girl. He says, yeah, go is she good looking?
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, is my Sicilian thinking? Is she good look?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah she is, but she's married. I go, oh, okay,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: well fair enough, and I was just playing way they
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: having fun with you? You know? So what I did is
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I drove down in the in the sedan to s
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I R got in there and met this person it's Patricia,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: and sat down at the piano, started playing some stuff
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: and said what are you thinking about? What is it
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: you want to do? And then explained it all, did
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: it all, and picked up a guitar and made some
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: racket and we talked about stuff and it became a partnership.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And in fact, the guy's name is Jeff Aldrich who
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: called me from the record company who's a tremendous guy.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: A great day and our guy really nice guy. So
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: he picks up Patricia and I'm sitting at a couch.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: He picks up Patricia. He goes like, does it drops
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: her in my laby? And she and he says, here's
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: your guy to her, here's your guy. And I went like,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: that's a little awkward here. You know, that's a little awkwards.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: First day, what's calling out here? So that's how that's
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: how that kind of began.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Woodstock, you have the free ticket back
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: to Cleveland. Forget the Derringer record and the other two tracks.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Was this going back to Cleveland or you talked about
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: some other opportunities. Was this the end of the road
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: for you or just an interlude before you got the
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: call to work with pat Oh? This was it was
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: like a fifty to fifty. I had some opportunities. They
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: weren't They weren't great.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: There were a couple of bands I thought they're okay
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: because it was only meant to be in the meantime,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you know what I was tall Rick's I want you
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: to come back. I want you to come back. Well,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: be careful of what you let go. You know, people
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: have good memories. I mean, I mean, I will. I
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: don't want to be a prick about anything. And I
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: wasn't because I love Rick, He's a great guy. But
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't like that way that was handle. I thought
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: it was. It wasn't cool. I mean, if they would
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: have said, uh, you know, you know, we look forward
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: to you coming back. Rick wants to finish the record. Okay, good,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: thank you very much. Maybe I'll get a gig to
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: me time. Well I could have, it's not a problem,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: but it wouldn't be a great gig. I'll and be
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: where I was. What reck right, So so that's that's
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: kind of what happened. So it was like a fifty
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: to fifty go back to Cleveland, you know, kick around
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: there for a while, make the foot, few calls, see
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: what's up. But I got the call before I left, right.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: So did Rick ever call you to come back?
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: And what did you tell him?
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm sorry, I can't. I said I can't.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I I'm an integral part of it. Another situation. And
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: we're partners. I partnered up with somebody. You may not
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: know it, but we were partners. And I remember playing
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: the record the first record in a heated night for
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Johnny Winter, and I remember even talking to him and
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: he said, oh man, yeah you got, this is your thing?
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: You got?
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, thanks, Johnny. I have a great picture
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: you usould see one time. It's because Rick Deringer's wife
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: was named Liz, and she was more than one Liz.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: She was Liz Liz, I called her. But I was
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: like her boy toy. She would take me around because
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I was twenty just turned twenty two, and she would
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: take me around to all these places like Studio fifty
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: four and all these different clubs, Maxes and all these things,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: and she would parade me around. And she was a
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: huge social lighte and she thought it was funny because
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I had this rope belt and a pair of jeans
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: and white T shirt. Everybody else was dressed up and
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: there I am walking around like a goofball you go
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: out of Cleveland like Jethrow or something. I felt like him,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: you know. And so I was going around and doing
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: all that stuff.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, so old Rich introduces you to Pat. You work
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: out what's the next step.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Next step is well, next step, here's your guy boom
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: in my lap, And I says Okay, now what goes? Well,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: go back to Cleveland. But then you only got two
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: days come back because you guys got to put a
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: band together, You got to get going, and you need
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: to go through all kinds of stuff. So I says,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: They says, where you want to stay? Do you want
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: to stay at the may Mayflower, the Mayflower Hotel? I says, no,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I'm want to stay at Wellington. They say the Wellington.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I like the Wellington. Are you sure?
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I go? Yeah, I want to stay at the Wellington.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: It was my home away from home. I liked it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: They would add a good vibe to it. So I left,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: go back to Cleveland. Like I said, That's when all
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the girls that didn't have time for me pay attention
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, where you know, they kind of
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: knew where I was. So I stayed there for just
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: a couple week maybe, and then I came up and
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: started to work.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, how long from that initial meeting before you go
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: in the studio.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that would be probably May of nineteen seventy nine.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: We didn't go in the studio until I think it
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: was August, July or August maybe the beginning of May
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: is when we started Mart April, i'd have to look
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: at it.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: That's pretty soon. So what happened in those intervening months?
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, first of all, we had to put
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: a band together, so I had to audition players, people,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: and then at the whole time Patricia and I were
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: working together, I told her the first time we talked
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: and played, I says, you know, you got a really
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: beautiful voice. Beautiful voice. I'd hate to be the guy
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: to wreck that voice. I says, you understand that the
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: way you're going to sing next is not what you've
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: ever done before, because we're going to find a breaking
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: point in your voice where that high stuff is not
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: going to be falsetto. It's going to be real. It's
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: going to be your real voice. You ain't gonna go
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: to falsetto. What is that? What's that going to happen?
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I go, I'll show you. We're going to raise these
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: keys and these courses you're going to have to really
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: belt out. They're going to have to get in that
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: range to support what's going to be underneath it. Right,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: So her and I worked a lot on that. So
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: we had because to understand, Patricia, is that not that
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: there's anything wrong with being the rock chick, but that's
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: not what she was. She was a highly educated, intelligent
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: person that came from a middle class family in Long Island,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and she went to school. She she was you know,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: she studied singing, She she did all the oppera. She
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: just she she knew all those things. She wasn't kicking
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: around clubs for a couple of years. That wasn't her.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: But what she wanted to get into was a different world.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: And I was that. I was representing that world that
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I knew the most. So we worked hard on that.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And then uh, and then I found I found different musicians.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Got another guitar player because they had a good looking haircut.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: He looked good. I don't care about it, did anything else.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: He looked good, and I thought that was great. The
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: bass player would play with her in a lounge band prior.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: And then I brought my drummer from Darrow that worked
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: with Reck and that was Byron Grobacker. I brought him
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: in for the two. Oh no, I didn't bring him
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: in yet. I'm sorry, sorry saying no, no, no. This was
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: for the record. Then I got a drummer and then
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: we rehearsed in New York and then we came to
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: California to make the record.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, a lot of times when people are relatively green,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: they don't really want the band. They want to use
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: studio musicians, right, So whose idea was it to make
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: it a band?
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Well, because in the beginning, what Patricius tried to do
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: was work with studio musicians and a producer to do
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: what she wanted to do. But nobody was listening. They
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: had her wanting to sound like again, there's nothing wrong
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: with this, having her sound like Linda Ronstad on this song,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: having sound like this on this song, but not totally
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: missing a point. And even after she did these demos
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: of five songs or whatever she did with this studio musician,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: she record company guy says, listen, don't don't get your
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: hope up. You know this, you know, and then they
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: shoved it. They says, no, this isn't this isn't where
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: it needs to be. That's where Mike Chapman came in.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: So Mike who referred me because he thought and he
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: was supposed to produce only four songs of the record
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: the first record, So Mike's idea was because he was
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: busy doing Commander Chapman. He wasn't Commander Chapman yet, it
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: came later, but he was, you know, the Knack and everybody.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: So he was pretty hot. So he didn't have the
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: time for us, you know. And the best thing that
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: he did was have his engineer, Pete Coleman work and
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: him and I together were a great team. We were
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: we had the greatest time, and we aligned beautiful. Right.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: So so yeah, so Mike was on board, and we
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: were just going to come to LA and make the record.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, you come to LA, do you know, as Mike
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: told you what songs you want to record, you get
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: there and he goes hear the songs.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he told us the songs. He goes four songs,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I think a couple of them were he wrote, were
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: probably from Exile or one of the other bands he
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: worked with. But and then subsequently what happened was the
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: record company would release a couple of those songs that failed.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: So and meanwhile, all the other tracks that Pete and
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I did had substance, you know, they were Heartbreaker, we
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Lived for Love. There were all these other songs like Clone,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: sleeps Alone, these these other things. So right then Mike
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: was getting a little angry because the record companies released
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: songs and his aren't working.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: And of course we Lived for Love became the second
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: signal a single, the one that I wrote, and Heartbreaker
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: was first. But even that they it didn't catch on
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: right away because they said there was too much guitar
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: on it. But that was where disco. We were right
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: on that board. Are we gonna redefine rock music at
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: that point and break away from disco? And that's where
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: the guitar focus of Heartbreaking movement forward. So does that
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: answer your question?
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you know it's a long time ago. Do
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: you remember which four songs were Chapman, Yes, okay, which one?
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: It was? In the heat of the night right if
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: you think you know how to love me?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: He brought in I Need a Lover from Johnny Mellicamp Cougar. Oh,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: and then what was the other one? I'm trying to
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: think of it, ken me what or what it was, but.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: It looks like I know, you don't the sweet cover.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, there you go, No you don't, there you go.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So in terms of recording, you and Peter
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Coleman did Heartbreaker and the rest of the you know,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: we live for Love, et cetera.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, Pete and I did. It was great. We
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: had We had the best time. You know. It was
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: great because I loved engineering, and even when I did
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: the Derringer record with Todd Rudgren producing the guitars at
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: women thing, I was always around, you know, the studio.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Even prior to joining Rick, I was in the studio
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: in Cleveland too, in other bands. We were doing original
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: music and things like that. So I really loved the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: engineering part. And it goes back to Heartbreak, Hotel here
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: in those tones and all that other stuff going on. Right.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so Pete and I were great. I mean
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: we take turns in different machines of twenty four track
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: or the two inch or the half inch and just
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: everything and everything. It was just beautiful.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, how did you feel at the time, because really
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: the breakthrough was the cover of I Need a Lover
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: and at that point he was still Johnny Couger. It
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: was one of those early albums. It had no traction.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: Did you want to do that? Did you care? Did
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: you think it was going to be good? I?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I I mean I I I understand the the
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: campiness of a girl singing I need a lover because
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: only guys were singing kind of stuff, and then for
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: a girl to do it. I got it. I I
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: thought it. I thought it was pushing, just like a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: couple of records that follow certain songs were pushing towards
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: the the uh, this is an important thing to tell
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: you too. It was pushing more towards the focus of
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: you know, we can sell this by making it the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: girl talk about this, and we can sell it this way.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: We can do this right. So the part for me
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: is my sister kind of cursed me when I was younger.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: She said I'd be surrounded by women my whole life,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: and she was right right. But I never looked at
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Patricia as as the female chick singer. Never. I looked
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: at her as a bandmatee and a partner. Right. So
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: so when it was it all felt like this, the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: the like the like a Linda ron st Er, just
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: the female the focus of this. Never I never looked
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: at that that way. And I I must say I did.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I did do something like that with the True Love record.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I did cost to be the boss. I you know,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I had you know her do that, which would be
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: a reversal of the sex reversal right instead of bb kings.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a girl singing I'm the cost to
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: be the boss, right, So I was I was just
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: like that. I suppose I was like Mike in that point.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: So I can't you know, we all make we all
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: do stupid and good stuff. Okay, okay, tell me get
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: out of that. The first album I Love, We Will,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: We Live for Love?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: You wrote it? Tell me how you wrote it?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: I wrote it. I was with my girlfriend at the
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: time and we were living in Los Angeles and we
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: needed another song for the record, two songs, and I went, okay,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: let me, let me scratch something together. And I started
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: writing it there and I was just coming together, and
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, how do you write a story about something
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: that could apply for what the project you're doing? Like,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: how do you how do you make this song we
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Live for Love? Why would you do a song called
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: we Live for Love?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: So I had a good first line, and then I
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: just kept calling on it, right, and and then you know,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: we have a running joke that Pittrish always says it
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: wasn't written about her, and it was written about somebody else.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: And I always say no, I wrote it about you,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: So I did it as a reversal. So I got
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: off to leave that up in the air.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Okay. So at the time, you know, Chrysalish has some
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: American success with Blondie, but it's not the equivalent to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Warner Brothers or Columbia. And it looks like the record
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: has a slow percolation. And then you start to hear
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: the Melancamp cover and you start to hear it on
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: all these stations in LA. What was the experience on
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: your side of the fence.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I didn't really hear I Need a Lover. Mostly
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: I heard when Heartbreaker hit it. That's the first time
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I heard a record song from that record come out.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: And when I heard that, I just went ooh, now
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that's moving. Some are that sounds really in a compression
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: all working and stuff? You know.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess what I'm saying is the record is finished?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: How long until it comes out? And what do you do?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Do you go on the road and at what point
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: do you say this is work and we have something here.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Well, and what happened as they were releasing those songs.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: I think they even tried. If you think you know
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: how to love me, you know, put it out there
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: lit no radio traction, and they did I need a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: lover too, and that didn't really get traction in the beginning.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: It was just kind of floating around. It was heartbreaking
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: that took it so but to answer the question, we
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: went and I can't remember when our first gig was.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: We got there and I was using these new amps.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: I got these little Marshall combos and they all blew up.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: I think we maybe made it through the set. I
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: can't remember if we made it all through or not,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: but I know that there was not a lot of
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: people there. I don't know, maybe thirty forty fifty, I
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: can't remember, but I do know that the next night
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: there was a few more and next night and it
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: happened really quick, really really quick. It just seemed to
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: kind of escalate really fast, and we got it to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: the point where we couldn't leave the stage and we'd
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: do the set over twice because we didn't have enough songs,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: right we do, Richie Vallence, come on, let's go some
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: other covers that I throw out through out there that
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: people seem to like. So we yeah, just started really
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: escalating and then we were asked to play open for
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: a different couple bands of any money. We opened for
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: him once in New York. I think it was at
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: the Central Park thing or something. Eddie's mother came up
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: and she goes, Eddie, you should be opening for them,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: and then you know, crazy, he's you know, he's like
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Rodney Danger. Yeah, thanks, I'm sure, okay, yeah, all right,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: so and then yeah, and then we had another guy
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: we opened for, David Werner, and he was from Pittsburgh.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: He was one of the bands too that that wanted
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: me to come along early on and he said, you know,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think you guys should be playing some of
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: those songs if you're opening up for me. I says, well,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: guess what, David, We're not going to open up for
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: you no more. You're gone. We're moving on.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: So between the first and second Bennett Tuck albums, how
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: much did you work?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Live? Oh? A lot, a lot. We went to Europe
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: right away. Actually I almost wish we went to Europe
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: first and it came Europe to America. That's always a
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: really good move. Yeah, we worked a lot, like a lot,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: and we had to go right from the road into
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: the next record, which was Crimes and Passion, And the
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: reason we had to change the producer at that time
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: was because Mike well, I think it was so pissed
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: off that we had more success with the other songs
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: and not his songs. And the story was that he
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: didn't get along with the record company, Terry Els, and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: they had an argument in a fight or whatever. Maybe
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: they did, maybe that's the truth of it. It just
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: didn't feel to me like that's what it was. It
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: felt like sour grape sort of, you know, So they
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: wanted a different producer. We met with Keith also. I said, yeah,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: well this this is okay. I was really just one.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: I really want to do it Pete, him and I
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: together like we did the first time, you know, that
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: I'd be credited and we would do you know, do
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: it like a partnership. But that didn't happen, so we went.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: But it was a good idea in retrospect, because it
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: was it was taking the band like a live band
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: and going into the studio making a record. That's why
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: it's sounds different. But I missed the air of of
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: of the MCA Whitney where we did the Heat of
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: the Night, the way Pete's sounds, his tones where there's
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of air in it, and also during crimes
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: of passion. I always like to do record maybe the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: song or songs that have the strongest has the most
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: strength behind them in something that you're gonna be able
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: to play the record company that you know, if you
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: do two songs first, the three songs they have the
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: record company come in, come in and get them charged
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: up right, and get those out of the way. And
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: one of them was housed for children and and that
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: was one of the I think was the first song
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: that Patricia was going to sing for the record. And
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I remember Keith gave me the keys to his poor
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: She goes, if you want to just go cruise around,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I'll just do the vocal here with Patricia,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: and when you come back, you can do over dumps,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: we can do the other stuff. I go, okay. So
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I took the keys and I came back Patria. Patricia
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: was in the studio crying on the floor, and I go, Pete,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, Keith, where's Patricia? She goes. He says, she's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: in there. She's in the studio. I go, what's the matter?
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: He goes, Things are going so good? Oh, yet what happened,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: So I went on, I talked to her. So I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: had to go in and start rebuilding a different mix
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: for her in her headphones to be able to sing,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: and and all of a sudden she started singing the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: way she was normally she normally sang. She felt more
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: comfortable with me in there from heat to night and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: working with Pete and I never left. And that's that's
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: why the producer chair kind of and the credited part
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: of it began was during that. For that reason, I
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: never left. Then. I was there for everything.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, Keith is no longer with us, but
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: he had some great success with Leetwood Mac and others.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: You worked with a lot of producers. What's your take
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: on Keith. Did he add anything? Yeah?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: I thought he was great. What he added was letting,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: letting the artists just just do it. He would record
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: it to make sure it was recorded properly. He used
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: this Dolby, which which not a lot of people used
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Dolby on rock records. But there was a compression part
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: of it that that I kind of liked. It made
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: it kind of solid. It lost some of the top
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: and air and some of the openness of it, but
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: it had another sound to it, and I kind of
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: like that. I thought Keith was was great and we
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: got along really really well in the beginning, but then
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: there is the temptation and then all of a sudden,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: the double creeps in, and you know, there was some
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: issues with drugs and things like that, and I could
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: I saw a decline during that record. I saw it
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: sort of fade out. He was having trouble personally, and
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: and then I just felt as I really needed to
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: step in and kind of say what was going on
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: because he wasn't himself. It's like I've known him in
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: the beginning. Uh, you know, cutting the tracks that we
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: did so.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: Okay on that album is really pats gigantic breakthrough hit
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Me with your Best Shot. How did that come into
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: the mix?
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Uh? That song was also floating around when I was
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: with Darrenger, and I kind of had it and and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I I brought it in. Keith said he brought it in,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: and I did a demo of it in New York
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: in a studio with Patricia before we before we went
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: to LA to do the Crimes of Passion record, and
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: I brought the demo with me and of us doing it,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: I says, this, this is probably a hit. You know,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: it's it's it has all those things, and a record
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: company loved it. So that's that's how we did that.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I brought it a demo of art, we
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: did a version of it.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, when it was done, did you say, man, this
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: is a hit, this is going to go all the way,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: or you just say, hey, this is another good track.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: It'll get some radioaction.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: No, I knew it was a hit.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: It had all that stuff, you know. Yeah, it's you know,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: it's it's a cliche line. It's easy for people to sing,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: it's a pop song. It had everything there, you know.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: I kind of like the guitar solo too. I don't
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not a I don't really pay attention to any
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: of that stuff. But it did. It did fire through
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: the like normally when a guitar solo solo would come in,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: if it's just wheedling and just a bunch of stuff
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: that doesn't have any meaning to it. Not that there's
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: anything wrong with that either, sometimes just the intensity of that.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: But I wanted it to be melodic. I wanted to
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: fire it off and keep people's attention because nobody really
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: wants to hear to me. I don't know, when they're
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: listening to a song sing along, they don't really want
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: to hear guitar solos, right unless unless there's something memorable
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: about it, and what mel I some sort or whatever.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: And I thought as a record that completed everything at
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: the very end of the song, what I used to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: put on the end of all of them, every one
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: on Crimes and Passion, it was called it E nine
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to eleven chord, And no matter what song it was,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: I'd always played a SA so all the outtakes, if
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: you heard outtekes of the record, they'd have that little
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: chord on the end of it and hit me add
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: that to the sad.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: So how did you end up recording You Better Run
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: by the Rascals?
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was for the Roady Soundcheck soundtrack the film,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: and that's where we worked with Keith first. And that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: warned great. That was almost a test, a testing point.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: They said, well we'll do that first. That was the
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: first song we recorded, and we were all in a
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: studio for that, so I was in there. We did
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: the vocal. Everything nobody ever left out of that and
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: that was just done for the Roady soundtrack.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: I think who picked the track.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Actually Patricia used to use it in some of those
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: gigs that she was doing before, but more, you know,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: more like a tame version, like a little organ part
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: had it and more it wasn't as like maybe guitar
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: driven that kind of thing.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: And what's the story on Treat Me Right?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: I think Treat Me Right just came in as a
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: collection of songs that people thought the record company thought
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: would be good. Normally, if if we didn't write the songs,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: they would be given to me. And what I always
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: did always is I would I would really rip them
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: apart and it would never sound like any demo that
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: was given I did. I did that all the time.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I wanted to. I wanted to make it for Patricia
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: and make it different, and I just I just I
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: just hear it different. That's another thing that which I
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: do and I love. When I was learning guitar and
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: keepers well guitar, especially from the pioneers, I would learn
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: the parts, but I wouldn't concentrate on the parts. I
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: would try to find parts that I would play and
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: embellish the parts. So I was always looking as a
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: sidebar to kind of change the arrangement or parts in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: all those songs. So by taking a song if we
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: didn't write it, I would try to really mess it
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: up and try a lot of different ways to do
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: it and come up with something different, interesting, you know.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, on the second album there's a cover of Wuthering Heights.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Kate Bush is an icon. Now that was on our
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: first album, had like no traction in America. How'd you
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: end up recording that song?
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: We were on tour in the beginning of nineteen eighty.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: We were in this little petit cap what is it
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: called the Petite I can't remember the name. It was
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: this little cafe in France, in Paris, and we were
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: having lunch and I love Kate Bush. I was aware
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: of that, and I heard out in the landing. I'm thinking, ooh,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: we should do that. I love Kate Bush. We should
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: do that song. So at that point that's when we
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: did it. After hearing it in the cafe, I said, Patricia,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: than it is, this could be a really good song
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: for us.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Okay from the outside, I mean I had the first
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: album and was certainly aware, but hit me with your
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: best shot, blows pat bennettar into the upper leagues as
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: big as anybody else. What does it look like from
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: your perspective, Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: It was the same thing. It was right around the time,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: and it would be after MTV, I mean after the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: beginning of MTV, which would be You Better Run, So
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: you Better Run was out there before hit me was
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. So yeah, that blew up. That blew up,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: it did. It blew up big. The part I liked
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: is it pulled attention to some of the other hells
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: for children's songs like that. Those are my favorite because
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: they're I don't know, I just I just like them.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: And you wrote them. Okay. Meanwhile, as you referenced earlier,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Pat is married. Her married name is Bennett tar where's
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: her husband doing all this?
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Well, he was there. He was there in the beginning
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: of I remember. I remember when I went to meet her.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: She was like, it was like insane, because this is
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: part of the metaphysical stuff, the universe, which never seems
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: to get it wrong. As I'm walking through the door,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: I see her and I'm walking towards her, and the
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: whole room disappeared. There was like for her too. There's
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: no one else made any difference in the room, just
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: her and I'm just walking up and I remember just
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: talking to her and all of a sudden she turns around.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: She goes, well, this is my home husband. And I said, oh, well,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: nice to meet you. I mean, sure, nice.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: And he was.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Around and I didn't know any I didn't know anything.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't know their relationship. But it wasn't like that
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: wasn't what I was there for. I'm professional, I'm not
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: going to do that there. Whatever the relationship is, Yeah,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: that's sure. I'm there to be a partner, work together
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: and make great records and have a great career. That
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: was it.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: So how did it end with him and begin with
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: you or vice versa.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I didn't realize that there was a friction
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: in the relationship relationship, but I remember, uh, there was
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: friction in my relationship.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: And this was the same woman from Connecticut.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, And it was just the timing it was.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: It wasn't right for it wasn't right for her and I.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: You know, but I remember, I mean, here, you it's
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: like the water cooler syndrome. You know, you're you're you're
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: in the band together. Here and I are partners. The
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: rest of the guys were going to tell them what
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: we want to do. But we are the partners, so
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: here we go. You know what what she wanted? What
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: you know what the plan was is, you know, you
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: know Keith and what do you call it? Sorry, Jimmy,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, you know, and Keith and
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: Mick and you know that whole sender, guitar singer, right,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: this is the whole pattern. Right. So we're getting We're
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: getting closer and closer. We're together all the time, so
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: things are starting to have a little bit. So I says,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: I think we need to have a meeting. I need
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: to tell you something important. So she thought I was
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: going to tell her that I was leaving the band.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: That was just going to be gone. This was after
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: the record was done. By the way, we weren't we
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: weren't together. This was we just musicians out a relationship.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: So I had this conversation. She thought I was leaving
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: the band, and I remember I was doing these little
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: figures that I were sitting there and I'm having a
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: cup of tea or something, and I tell her, my girlfriend,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: it's not working out. She did something that wasn't appropriate,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm leaving her you know. And then she subsequently
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: said things aren't working out with me either, and I said, well,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: you want to go out or something and nuts, and
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: that's that's what happened. That's how it happened.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: And I think his name was Dennis. How did he
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: take it?
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he took it well. My girlfriend
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: at the time didn't take it well. But we had
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: a record. We had an after record party in Los Angeles.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Were heated in that record and my girlfriend was there
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: and her husband, Dennis was there, but they were sitting
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: next to each other, so it was well, and the
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Patricia was more towards me and we both kind of
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: just looked at her for a second and went, maybe
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: that's an omen you know. And that never happened. They
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: they never got together, but they were having so much
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: fun talking. I'm thinking, well, I guess I think something
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: else is gonna happen. But this this was before any
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: ideas were going on. This is when we're still in
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: La So and from the very first show we did
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: live we were a couple. That was it.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, how does MTV change the UH Act from being
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: inside the act? Yeah?
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: Well, that thing it blew up everything. I mean, it was.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: It was. It was from walking out your front door
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: and getting in the car and going to CVS or
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: something to go buy some toothpaste. So you can't get
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: out your front door because a bunch of people there.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. Right. I was like, oh shit, this
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: what just happened? And then it never stopped. So it
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: got it. We just got out of control.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the next album you also work with Keith O.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: You get a co producer credit. If there were issues
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: on the previous album, why'd you work with them on
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: that album?
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Because of the success of it. You know, the record companies,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: you know, they're not going to make a move and
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: I fight it. I wanted Pete to come back, him
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: and I, but I wasn't gonna fight a battle with that.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: I just said, okay, we'll do it. And that was
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: that was. That was a disaster. So that was that
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: was lining up to be the end with with working
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: with Keith for sure. Yeah, that was. Yeah. It really
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: had some trouble times and I feel bad for him.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, his his his wife's sister lived
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: across from where we lived, and you know, he'd call
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: me in the middle and I could you do me
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: a favorite. Could you just walk over there? I can't
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: find my wife, and I mean it really personal issues.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: It was awful. I hated to see that happen to him.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: But but I was growing too, We were all growing.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't want I didn't want to make the same
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: record again. I I needed to make different I wanted
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: something different to happen, more genres of different space, different things.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're not front person. However, there's gigantic success. To
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: what degree do you feel pressure to equal it?
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, there was always pressure, but it didn't It
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: didn't affect me at all. Pressure pressure is living in
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Cleveland and not knowing what your future holds and how
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: how you have to live through neurosis and sickness and
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: all the other things. None of that stuff. I wasn't
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: afraid of any of that. Part of the thing, Bob,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: is that with everything I did, I want to challenge
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: myself because I got over some really nasty sickness and
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: emotional chaos that I was going to challenge everything myself.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: The audience didn't matter what. I wasn't afraid for one second.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: So you had complete confidence. You never second guess yourself,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: You were never up the middle of the night, saying, shit,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: maybe we're going in the wrong direction.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Nope, not once did. I did later on. I think
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: it was around this seventh record or something. Yeah, I did.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: I did later, but not in the beginning. Not then. No,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: I was coming in and I would say, this is
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: I want to try this. Everybody on board, We're going
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: to do this. Let's do this.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up recording Fire and Ice?
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: Fire and Ice was a song that Tom Kelly was writing,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: and uh, and uh, he just had it, he just
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: had it. We brought it in when wow, this this
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: course explodes here, this is this will be really good
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: for Patricia and and we just went in and did it.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: I think I was on precious time. Uh yeah, that
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: record right, the second third one?
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: And then how about the Raiders cover?
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: Uh that was just Look. Here's the thing too, this
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: was we we really didn't have enough time between records,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: you know, the the management this was a poor decision
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: on their part. Our legal team too, was it was
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't a good thing. When we had the huge success
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: with Crimes of Passion, we had a if we didn't
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: make a record every nine months, we'd go into suspension. Now,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: if you make to have that kind of success the
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: Crimes of Passion had, you can waive all that stuff.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: You can make a difference, you can change all kinds
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: of things. Well, they never changed that. They get more money,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: He got more money, but that was just an advance.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: So it was a really bad, bad business management decision.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: So we'd get done with the road and they say, well,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: guess what. You got to go back in the studio
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: in about two weeks. So we didn't have time to
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: sit there and write songs. We were writing songs on
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: the road. There was too much chaos, right, so we
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: didn't have the time to do it, you know. And
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: they were just looking for covers, you know. And Patricia
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: found it and said let's do that. I said, okay,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: sure you want to do it, we'll do it.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: It was, you know whatever, Okay, who's the manager?
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Rick Newman, right, so he was still the manager. Now
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: somewhere along this line you get involved with Rick Springfield
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: and Jesse's girl. How the hell does that happen?
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that happens because I let's see, it was
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: I think it was after Crimes of Passion. Crimes of
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: Passion was done, and then I was offered a job
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: to produce John Waite's for a solo record, So I
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: produced Ignition for John Waite and and then that was
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: starting to do really well. And then Keith and I
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: were getting along at that time, and he says, you know,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: I really want you to do let's do this together.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: That was the idea. We're going to produce it together.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: You and I were going to do this thing. And
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: and then I heard the song from Rick and I'm thinking, wow, Rick,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: he wrote it, this is a great song. This is
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: going to be a great pop song, going to be great.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: And it was very stiff, and it didn't have the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: middle eight section and it needed help. But the song
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: itself was very, very strong, and like Rick likes to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: explain it, when he was doing ad Do Do Do
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: is very stiff, right, It was more like a like
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: you know, and then my natural thing is to swing
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: it more dumb bob boom boom boom, just kind of
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: grab that kind of feel and beat. So then we
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: went in the studio and I do what I would
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: do most of the time if it's a live track
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: we're cutting it on, you do guitar and drums and vocals,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: and then you do overdubbed the bass. I don't want
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: the bass in there because I really want to work
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: inside the drummer because I played drums and I like
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: the rhythm to really kind of link together so I
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: can hear that really defined in the vocal. And so
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: we just went in and did that. We did I've
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: done everything for you. That was another song that was
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: I think floating around that Sammy Hagar did and kind
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: of introduced that to Rick too.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: So did you know because Rick Springfield was at the
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: nader of his career, no one cared about Rick Springfield.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: Did you have any idea that was going to be
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: the gigantic track it was?
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: Truthfully, yeah, I thought it was a smash. When we
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: had it done, I went, this is this is a
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: number one song, and then it became number one. So so, Bob,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: here's the deal. I have a number one song. I
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: just got done producer John Waite's record. Ozzie's asking me
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: to produce his record. I'm getting all these other offers.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: Crimes of Passion is exploding. I feel like, Oh, I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: can do anything, do anything. Now, look out, I'm coming
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: at you.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. This is the music business and a lot of
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: the songs were not written by either you or Pat
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: correct Were you seeing the money and were you seeing
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: the amount of money you should have seen?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, but but it certainly was enough that it
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: was okay. So it really wasn't about that part, you know.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: I always felt, like I said in earlier in our
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: conversation today, is that if you do a great song,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: it's going to be heard. If if I take somebody
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: else's song that they wrote and I completely dismantled the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: hell out of it and make it into something that's great,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: it's gonna make but it's gonna do what it has
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: to do. And I'm not worried about the money. I
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: don't care about it. I want it to be a hit.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: Listen loves a Battlefee was turned down by the record company.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: They hate it and said, what's it? What's your problem?
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Mike Chapman, who wrote it, said in Holly and I said,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: what the hell you do it? We hate it. Peter Coleman,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: who I did it with Pete and he says, I
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: don't think. I don't get that. What were you thinking about?
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: I go, Pete, I know this is a hit like this,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: I know it's a hit. I guarantee this song's a hit.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: And then Pete. The great story is Pete goes home.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: He's not a drinker. He goes home and he drinks
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: half a bottle of Kognak. He puts it on and
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: he listens to it. He goes son of a Bitchniel's
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: right came in the next day. He says, I'm behind
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: you one hundred percent. Get it now.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. They didn't like it because radically different from the demo,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: or they just didn't like it.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, radically different, a different, completely different song. You know,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: the demo was very melancholy, and you know, didn't have
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: the didn't have any of those things that were going
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: on that would give it the kick the charge, right,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not starting up, you know, you know.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: And I put the talking on because I thought it'd
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: be funny, like the Supremes put whistling on. I thought
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: that was kind of fun. Took a little light hearted thing,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: made it more like a Bo Diddley beat, got a
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: different groove, sped it up considerably, changed the whole dynamic
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: of the song. But I felt that was the right
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: thing to do. And the real funny part is that
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: when it be and Mike hated it, so when it
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: became a hit, people were calling him and saying, could
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: you write another one like Battlefield? I know somebody that did,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: and I'll tell you who that was. You know, the
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: saw Boys of some of course. Okay, how similar is that?
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: The Love is a Battlefield?
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: Pretty similar?
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: Oh? Interesting? Interesting? Well, listen, you could say what you
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: want about Don Haley. He's a very talented guy. He's
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: got a little reputation sometimes not being a nice guy whatever,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what that guy is an honest guy.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: He's honest and he's a great talent. Right. He ran
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: into me at MCA Whitney Studios. He said, how did
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: you do Battlefield? I said, you want to know? He goes, yeah,
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: I want to steal it. I said, you do. I
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: go Here's how I did it. I did it on
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: a LYNDR. I did this. I did it on this beat.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: I wanted a bowdilly beat. I wanted to have this.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: This is what I did. So I explained it to
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: him and he went out and he did it.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: But somebody else that was part of it doesn't say
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: the same story.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: So okay, well, you know, I both know personally and
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: you know it's pretty out there who's involved. But when
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: it is a hit, do you feel proud or rip doll?
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: I proud? From from from Don Henley's point of view,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: I feel proud. Yeah, I don't. I don't feel ripped.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: I just you know, in music, you you you know,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: it's it's important to be truth people. People can smell
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: when it's not the truth, right, it's important. And and
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: I just think if you if you're gonna, if you're
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: gonna go on social media or something like that, just
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: tell the truth, you know, find you know, you don't
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: have to, you don't have to make up something. You know,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: it's it's just it's just odd to me. You think
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: somebody would kind of make sense. You know. I heard
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: this record, you know, I really liked it. Doesn't buy
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: you bother anybody. Just tell the truth on it, right.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: But I did see a little I have to say
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: that because I saw a little YouTube thing I'm talking with, like,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I wonder how you got that idea?
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: So okay, moving on Shadows of the Night, Yeah, m hmm,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: Shadows of the Night.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: It's a story there, great chorus, had a great chorus,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: and knew that was right.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: The verse.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: The verse lyrics were not good, so we rewrote those.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: That's the one where there should be credit established for that,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: but there wasn't. Didn't have an intro was killing me
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: because I the intro I had was horrible. It's like
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: d D D D D D D D ball boom.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: It's horrible. It was bothering me. I knew I had
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: a hit, but I didn't know how to start it.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: And you know that if you if you're gonna have
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: a hit record, that intro better defined. You better know
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: what that is within the first eight bars. So I
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: battlefield boomed bah bah boom, bah bah bah boom, ba boom.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: You know the song we belong baa b b b
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: b buh. You know the song right shuttles at the night.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: So Pete's in the other room. I'm getting a cup
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: of tea. I hear through the hall of him balancing
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: the vocals of the horus. As I hear that, I go,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: that's it. So I go running from the kitchen and
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: I go, Pete, stop, stop that right there. That's our intro.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: He said, what are you talking about? He says, Let's
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: take that. Let's put it on a quarter inch machine.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: Let's fly it in the beginning that is our intro,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: and that's how we got the intro, the a cappella part.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: He was balancing the vocals there and I wanted to
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: put that on the front of front of the record,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: and that's, to me, was a part that really made
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: that song hit because you want to have a great beginning,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: and that's starting. What all those vocals was. It just
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: sounds so beautiful. Her voice sounds tremendous on it.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: So you're working with Peter Coleman again. Is the magic
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: still there? Yes?
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, we could have went him and I could have
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: went on to be a producer of partnership with so
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: many people. We would have had such a great career
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: together like that. But Pete's is such a great guy,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: such a great great and he's you know, he he's
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: happy to just go to the studio, same studio every day.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: An engineer, he's a brilliant engineer. He doesn't have the
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: pressure of anything. He could just go in into it
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: and that was what he loved the most. So then
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: he moved to Nashville and he's a great engineer. Jason Aldine,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: I think he does his records and it just goes
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: the same studio, comes in at ten o'clock in the morning,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: leaves it six or whenever he does it, and yeah,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: it was still there.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: And what about we Belong? How do you end up
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: recording that we belong?
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: It came as an acoustic demo with just acoustic guitar
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: and vocal, and Patricia heard it and she goes, I
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: think I think this could be a hit. We can
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: make a hit with this. I go, I don't know.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm not getting it. I'm not hearing it yet.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: I got I got the I get it, I get
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: the course, I get it, but I'm not I don't
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: know yet. I don't know yet. And then and she said,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: I know you could do it. You could come up.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, thanks to Pete in my love
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: of everything he does and his use of of rhythm, sequence, rhythm,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: whether it's Bob O'Reilly or you know, any of that stuff,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking maybe I should have like a fast repeating thing,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: you know, that up something that would change. So I
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: had this super prime time unit was a delay unit,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: and I played one chord on it. Oh, Charlie, I
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: think he was a keyboard player. I played this one
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: chord and I took these knobs and I start switching
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: the delays up to create this kind of hypnotic delay part.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: And that gave me the idea of Okay, now I
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: can develop this into something different and and that's and
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: that's how that's from that point I went, okay, now
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: I can develop this song properly.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: So okay. Ultimately, Pat's hits dry up, as they do
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: for everybody. But what was the experience for you and Pat?
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: In what regard.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: Did you feel that the record company let you down?
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that the records were good enough and
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: not promoted? Do you feel that somehow you weren't nailing
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: it anymore? Did an executive leave? You know, people usually
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: have a story.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of got We kind of got over it.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: You know. It wasn't the record company's fault, nobody's fault.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: All it was us that we got it was too
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: long doing the same thing, and I, you know, really
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: I tried to mix it up as best I could,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: different genres and everything else. And it wasn't until the
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: True Love record. I've been trying to do a swing blues,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: jump blues record for years. So we were in a
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: port of renegotiating the record deal, and I says, why
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: do we do it like a jump blues record. I
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: heard this great record by the Room full of Blues
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: with Big Joe TURNERU, I said me, if we can
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: capture that kind of sound and the roof flow are
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: great because they played the horse way behind the beat
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: and John Rossy phenomenal drummer, really fattens that thing up.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: It's a great feel, and that's what we wanted to
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: change it. We weren't interested in just keep doing pop
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: songs as hits, and we wanted to do others, something,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: something different. And I was producing so many other people
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: at the time. I was all over the place, Steve Forbert, jeez,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: I can't even think of you know, the del Lords,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: two albums for the Delords, Beth Hart. I mean, I
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: was all over the place, and that was at least
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: feeding me and Patrician didn't Carris and she wasn't sure
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: she could be able to do a swing. Recognizays, yeah,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: you can listen to Big may Bell. You can be
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: Big may Bell on this. You got it right. So
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: that changed it. So from that point moving forward, we
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: were okay.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: So you're producing records, jamaking records with Pat pat stops
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: having hits. What happens with your production career.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of what was going on at
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: that time. I think I was still producing people. I
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: was writing, writing a lot. And the thing about writing
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: is you write and if you collect it, which I
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: always did, whether it was at that machine, it has said,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: whatever those parts, if they're good and they have life,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: they'll live forever. Right. They're melodies right there, there are words,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: you know whatever. You have, not full songs, but you
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: have those parts. So I was doing a lot of that.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: But I got to think of the time I did
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: some film composing. Patrisia was kind of worn out, you know,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: you know, the same routine over and over again, trying
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: to be part of that machine. And you know, we
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: didn't really we really didn't want to continue. Basically, she
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: didn't want to continue with that. So I'd produce other people,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: like I said, film scoring and work on other things.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: Well how'd you get the film scoring gigs?
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: Just from a couple of different directors, you know, they said,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: you know, hey, you should be doing film scores. I said, okay, yeah, sure,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: I'll do that. In fact, I got one coming up
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: now this director Jeff Kramer, who's a great director. So
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: that's going to be happening sometime later this after later
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: this year.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: So do you like film scoring?
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: I do? I do. I I like the usage of
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: different instruments. I like the palette. I like to create
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: for like a film score. I like to create the
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: so called band, whether you'll be an upright bass player,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: you know, a trumpet player, small kit drums, maybe just
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: acoustic guitars, electric or violin or quartet, all different things
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: like that. I want to mix it up a little
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: bit and try to get the emotion whichever the film
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: is explaining or talking to me to do. So yeah,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: I do like that, and I love I love writing.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: So writing writing moves everything forward to me.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: At some point it goes from being Pat Bennittar to
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: Pat bennetts Ar and Neil Giraldo. How does that happen?
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: That happens because Patricia, it's not it's not something she
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: was guilty about, but she she felt so much of
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: the career that we did really was a partnership. You know,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: you have you have so many bands out there that
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: that whatever they are, you know, there's usually one person
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: in the band or two people in a band does
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: everything and controls there, you know, their dynamic controls, not
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: control wrong word musically makes it all kind of flow.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: And she knows, uh what I put into it and
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: what I did. But see, early on, for me, I
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: followed the Truman thing. You know, you be amazed at
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: what you can accomplish if you don't care about who
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: gets a credit. And I didn't care. I was just
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: happy to do the work that I did. And Patricia
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: didn't like how I was treated by the record company
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: because at times they weren't very kind, uh, you know
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: to me and things. And but it was okay. I mean,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: if you're winning, it's like if you're on a football
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: team or baseball whatever it is. If you're winning, that
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: changes everything. That's all you care about. Right, So she
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: just wanted to be partnering with that we could do
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: more things with it. It just it just kind of
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: explain what it was from the very beginning. And actually
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: her thing too was she never really wanted to be
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: the girl, like just the girl singer, like every what
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: the record companies were doing. You know, there were no
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: girls in bands. There were a few, but not a lot, right,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: And when that happened. If you didn't have a girl
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: in a band, you couldn't get signed, you couldn't get
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: a record deal. That's when you saw all the influx
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: of all these girl driven bands that happened. Right, So
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: that's all was so I change it and says, okay, sure,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: whatever you want.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: So how was it raising kids as a musician?
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: It was great. I mean, you know, we'd watch the
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: Laker games and when the kids were younger, and I'd
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: have a dat machine run and I'd be writing songs
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: in the background and you would be hearing check her
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: and talk about how they make plays. You know, somebody
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: scoring and you know the kids are laughing and I'm
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: writing songs. Yeah, it was easy. I mean we took
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: them on every tour, every single one, all the time.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: Well what if they were in.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: School and then we did that and they would we
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: were a tutor.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: Doctor, And what are they up to today?
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: My youngest Hannah is a tremendous songwriter. My god, she's tremendous,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: a great actress as well. She's It's the blessing and
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: the curse to this is I love children. I want
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: to have children badly. I thought on Sunday's Italian Day.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: You know, you're gonna break bread, gonna have the family,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: They're gonna eat for like five hours long. It's gonna
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: be great. Great kids come over, Hinda walks through the door, Papa,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: can we go in the studio? It's like, oh, man,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: can we just sit around and relax today. So but
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: it's great. And my oldest daughter is really talented as well.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: She's the one that has the three babies, three grand
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: babies that we have, which she's really talented too, with
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: art and a lot of different things, planning, she does these.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: She's just she's a she's got a phenomenal eye. So yeah,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: it's great.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: So how much do you and Pat work now I'm
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: talking about on the road.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: On the road a couple well, let's say maybe a
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: couple month and a half or something in the summer.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's a month in the fall, month in the spring.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: That's the for me personally, it's the only time I
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: can let my brain rest a little bit and I
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: could be sort of a teenager while I'm out there.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I can just play instruments and not have
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: to create anything, and just you know, I you know,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know where songs care. I don't know how
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: this even works, and nobody really does and nobody can
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: really tell it. But I'll tell you this though. It's
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: an obsessive compulsive disorder because it never leaves, so totally
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: every minute of my life is writing something, right. I mean,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: you're a great writer, Bob. I mean the way you
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: write it. You cover so many things, and when I
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: read it, it's like this guy is like writing these
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: amazing things. Forget the subject matter. It's brilliant writing, right.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: So you can't stop either. You know, when I wake up,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: I want to be wake Why do I want to
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: be awake? Because I want to start writing and it's
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: a sickness, so I have. I'm about ready to do
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: something profound in a career because I've waited a long time.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: I may be doing a solo record with of course
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: all original songs, but different guest stars, a different singers
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: and different people on it. That's all about the songs,
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: of production and you know the music.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: So needless to say, the landscape has changed dramatically in
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: forty years. There were fewer records. Record companies were powerful.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: If you have an established name, you got a shot.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: Now you can be a legendary act from the seventies
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: maybe eighties. You can put your heart and soul into
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: a record and it falls flat, irrelevant of the quality.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: You know, how is that relative to your incentive to
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: do it?
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't care at all. Honestly, I
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: don't care, because just because it falls flat doesn't mean
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: it stays flat. Alls it takes is one ear, one
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: listened somewhere that kind of goes, wait a minute, this
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: could be something. Listen the history of the things that
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: I've done. Here's I have a fought be about this too.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: If you listen to a record the first time you
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: hear the record, if you love it as a listener,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: that's a problem. I want somebody to listen to it
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: and go, hm, I don't know if I'm getting this.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: Second listen maybe, and by the fifth listen, you're going
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: I can live with this now, you know. I love this.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: And that's It's like I said in the very beginning
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: we're talking, is that it doesn't matter where you're at.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: If you have a great song, it will be heard.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: It'll work. And here's the thing that I don't think
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: you know. The the thing the rock and roll or
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: rock that word or whatever you want to do with that.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's a way to rejuvenate that. Bring
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: back phil Oaks. Try to try to mix genres, try
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: to have something that has meaning and mix things up.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: Don't be afraid, right, I mean, if you're not brave,
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: you have nothing to lose. I mean, you know, huh,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I just I think it's I have hope,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I gotta I gotta stop for a second.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: You mentioned phil Oaks. Correct, why phil Oaks?
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: Because you know the that genre, you know, the the
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: protest music. I mean that that was that was rocking
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: its own self. Like why can't you open up, you know,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: like where his head was at, find out what that is?
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: Speak that language. Mix it with Howland Wolf across a
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: cross cross gender that not grot wrong words, all right,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: I mean that word across like mix up things so
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: different that you have to question, what are you listening to?
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what?
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, uh great, you know dre Oh my god,
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: that's rock news. If you look at rock as being
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: the thing that you know defines a generation, you know,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: the stuff he did was phenomenal, But why don't you
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: take uh, you know, like blues Junior kimbroke that vibe
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: that really like scary. Oh, I don't know what the
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: word scary blues Mississippi blues thing and put it with
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: phil Oaks. You know, phil Oaks wrote beautiful songs with
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: power Changes is a beautiful melody, one of the most
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: prettiest melodies ever written. I mean, and this his mind was,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: it was pure, he was real, you know, So, uh,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: is there something there? I think? Don't be afraid? I mean,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: I think, I.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: Think.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, I personally, I don't have fear of failure in
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: that I don't. I don't have fear of releasing something
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: and somebody goes, who cares it gets thirty views? I
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: don't care because if I know it's good, it's all
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: matters to me. I'm not and I don't think i'll be.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not the renaissance man, and I'm not gonna change
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: the way people listen to music of the way sounds
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: are going to be completely different. That's not gonna happen,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: but it's going to be interesting and you may be
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: a little shocked what it sounds like.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: So you're gonna make this solo album. I Am I
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: Am okay human. Pat also wrote a children's book. How
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: did that come to be?
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: Correct? Yeah, they got a hold of us about writing
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: a grandparents book. It was the love the I love Caa,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: I love Rob Light and everybody up there. They've been
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: really good for us and really nice people and creative people.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: And we have grand babies and we love them to death, right,
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: so why not write a book about grand babies? Just
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: have fun, you know, just something something that people can
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: look at. You know. The the image of a grandparent
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: used to be that old. You know your grandparents, do you?
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: You remember then your grandparents see you do? Right? So
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: that's not the way it is now, you know. And
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: here's the other thing I talk about too. Nobody ever
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: thought about what's going to happen to all these rock
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: and roll musicians with their health going forward? What's going
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: to happen? You know, you got Pete Trampton with his
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: terrible thing, you Phil Collins, you got serious issues with
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: their health. So for me, I'm looking for Kobe Bryant
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: to be my example a person that had in order
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: to be a musician in this age group in the sixties,
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: seventies and eighties. You have to think of yourself like
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: Kobe Bryant, as an athlete because you can't do those
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: things you did when you were younger. You have to
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: change your diet, you have to exercise. You got all
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: these things that are and you have to be sound mind.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: That helps everything you're writing your life.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, you and Pat were inducted into the Rock and
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. That has to feel good. But
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: do you think Pat gets the recognition and attention she deserves.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: Let me use sort of an equivalent thing. Yeah, Stevie
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: Nick she has very much has a persona, but as
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: a solo act, Pat has more hits and Stevie's been
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: embraced by younger generations. You know, what do you think
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: about this Pat's place in the firmament and whether there's
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: you know, runway to get younger generations on board. Yeah.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: I think what we see usually is we have a
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: young collection of people that come to see us all
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: the time, and it's evident in our lives. Maybe not
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: in the public sector or whatever you're looking at there,
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: but in real life. And the parents that bring the
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: kids who are like nine years old, thirteen, they're they're
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: in it. They're there, and and there's boys, young boys
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: that are musicians that are learning the stuff that I've done.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of that. But for Patricia, she's
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: a defiant person. She's a tough person who worked really
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: really hard. So and she don't give a fuck. I
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: gotta tell you. Her attitude is like, I don't give
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: a fuck. She don't care. She's defiant. I love it.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that she's like that. She
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: don't care. So she don't care about that either. She
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: don't think about this person getting this person. I think
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: the only thing about that rock Call thing was I
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: think it takes that long, really like it has to
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: take that long. Well, then you got to look at
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: who's who's running it. Now, you know, Greg Harris a
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: great guy. These are great people. John Sykes go and
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: guess guess what, John Sykes. She said, drive me around
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: in his station wagon. And I was Rick Darenter to
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: to radio stations. He was the guy when I saw him.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: He go, Okay, do you remember in nineteen seventy eight
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: I was driving you and Ric Roundry. I says, sure
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: I do, John, Yes, I do. You did good?
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: Okay? At the Rock and Roll induction ceremony. You did
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: most of the talking and Pat was relatively silent. Is
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: that your relationship is that Pat? Uh?
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: Nah? Well, no, I do not really, I don't know.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: That's a tough question to ask, a tough question to answer.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, on certain subjects, I definitely are I'm the
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: one that's gonna do the talking about other things like
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: if we go out with friends or like that she
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: does all the time. Can I just listen? I can't
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: get a word in. She just talks.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: But she was.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: She she wanted my voice to be heard too, you know.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: She I support a lot of things. I support support children,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: I support schools, music education, I support a lot of
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: different things. A lot of people don't know because I've
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: been so quiet. To your point early on in our
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: conversation today, social media, you should be out there. You
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: should be doing that stuff. I don't do it. I
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: should do more. I definitely should do more, without a doubt.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: So it was I don't know, I don't know why.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: Just she just she was happy just to kind of
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: be there. And she said, go ahead and spider talk,
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: do whatever you want, you know.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: So okay, as I said earlier, you're a very verbal, friendly,
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: nice guy. Great hang. But you talk about growing up
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: with a gooraphobia and other mental maladies. Yeah, we're seeing
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: me now telling your story. But do you ever get depressed?
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: You ever have moods?
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: Sure, I get I get it, but I don't have
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: anything like I had before, not at all, nothing like that. Nothing. Yeah.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: I sometimes I'm afraid of moods because I don't really
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: get that angry bob. You know. But if I get
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: angry about something, I have a little bit fear because
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: if somebody, somebody harms somebody emotionally, somebody else, I go
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: into Anthony gerald on my fatherland and I will put
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: my head, my fist or concrete if I have to,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: I'll protect my own, no question. Or if somebody's bullying.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: I hate bullying. I hate faceless cowards. I hate all
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: that stuff. Don't like it. You know that don't get me?
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: So maybe I maybe I choose to be silent in
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: that way because I don't want to deal with the ugliness.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll write about it. You'll see it in
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: the New Star songs that I'm writing. Is there's something there,
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: you'll hear it.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, But you portray your life. There's a lot of
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: solitary time. You wake up at three point thirty in
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: the morning, you never get into dark spaces.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: I do, I do, but I let. Luckily, I'm able
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: to channel that into writing. I mean, because it's the
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: only way you can let the endorphins take care of depression.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: You know what it's like when you write something great.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: I know you you're writing something. You go, damn, that's
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: a good line. Damn I wrote that. That was really good.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: I know you're doing that.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: Bob.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: Well, the funny are you?
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is I can see that people say, oh,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: nobody knows what a hit is et One of my
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: favorite stories. That's hanging with Al Cooper and he's telling
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: me the story of how he got a call from
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: Ronnie van zandt we have a new record. We do
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: song we want to record. The first album had just
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: come out. He says, come into the studio. They're in Florida,
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: he's in Atlanta, says, come to the studio on Monday,
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: we'll cut it. The record did not come out for
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: a year. It was you know, Sweet Home Alabama. And
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: I said, Al, did you know it was a hit?
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: And he said it was sweet Home Alabama. The people
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: who do something great. You know when you do something great,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: And that's why I love you talked earlier. You hit
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: me with your best shot of it. You know it,
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: and you bet you try to hit an eleven and
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: you can't hit an eleven on a regular basis. Anybody
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: tells you they can is full of shit. You're never
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: gonna do something shitty, but something that little bit extra.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: You're searching for it. You know when you do it,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: and then you're depressed after its over. I listen, by
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: the way, I love Al Cooper. He's a great guy.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: I love that guy. He's done great, great stuff. But
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: you know, like I said, you know, it's just being trueful.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's all it is. Here's the thing, too,
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: I love the what is it Warren Buffett thing? What
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: he says he says, if if what he uses as
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: a deal, I don't care if it's a deal any
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: this is any subject. But if he says it's like, yeah,
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: that's a really good deal, he says, don't do it.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: That's a great deal. Don't do it.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, do it. And so it's the same
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: with a hit. You just know it when I heard
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: When Doves Cry the first time, I went, that's a smash.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: That's a fantastic song. Different hit, you know, And the
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: things that we've done that were big hits, I knew
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: they were. You can't kid yourself. I know that. You
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: know if somebody like the record companies, So what do
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: you think of this? If you say, yeah, excuse me,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty good. That's not a hit. That's
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: not you got to say, oh hell yeah, oh hell yeah.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: That's why Bob that oh hell yeah song will always
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: get hurt. It will always get hurt. Alls it takes
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: is the right thing, and then it multiplies and multiplies.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: It's like sickness. It's like a disease. It just keeps
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: going in a positive way.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: Well, now you're inspiring me.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: Well hell yeah, I mean I don't have to inspire you.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: You're a I'm telling you.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: I love Colin Coward, you know, the sports guy, right
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: because he talks about sports, but then he goes off
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: and talks about other things because sports is real life.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: Like there's a real life going on right there. And
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: like Bill Cower, similar sort of name, Bill Cowher. I
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: love it. I ran into coach Cower, and I says,
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: you know what, I really loved that. She said, if
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: a player makes a mistake, he pulls them aside and goes.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: You owe me. The player does good, he comes back,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: he goes worry even right, So you know these things
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: are all true. I'm telling you that the reason you
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: love to write is you're getting in the doorphin rush
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: because you got a lot of shit wrong with you.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: I read this stuff. You know, Ah you got you
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: went to the dentist, you went to ah, you got
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: all these things. I've seen you laughing. They can't hear
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: you on the podcast.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: Say, you know, the funny thing is you're one hundred
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: percent right, and you know these types of things. I
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: talk to my psychiatrist. I know a lot of business
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: people and we're friends. But the people I really could
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: relate to the artists. It's just something different. I could
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: go on and on, but that's about me in any event, Neil, Hell, yeah,
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: it was great talking to you. Great talking to you too.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: Anytime you need you need any ps psychiatric help, call me.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: I'll help you through it. As well as I say,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: you're inspiring me. And I wasn't in the greatest mood earlier. Well,
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: anytime you need to you need to talk, just call me.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: I'll be happy to talk to you off the record,
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: whatever you want. Man I love what you do of
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: thin song. That's been amazing. Thank you until next time.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: This is Bob left set H