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How to Help Bereaved Children in Play Therapy · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy, a weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy to elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas so you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:34
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:48
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:53
  Cathi Spooner: I'm super excited this week to have Leanna Lowenstein back as a guest.
• 0:59
  Cathi Spooner: We're going to be talking about her brand new book that she is just launching.
• 1:04
  Cathi Spooner: It's the second edition updated and revised, uh, uh, Getting Creative Interventions For Bereaved Children.
• 1:15
  Cathi Spooner: I have the first edition.
• 1:17
  Cathi Spooner: It's really good.
• 1:19
  Cathi Spooner: Also, she has another book that's been out for a little while on the same topic.
• 1:24
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, which also was a really good book.
• 1:26
  Cathi Spooner: It's called Corey Helps Children Cope with Grief.
• 1:29
  Cathi Spooner: So we'll talk a little bit about those more at the end.
• 1:34
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so Liana has been working with children and adolescents using play therapy for decades.
• 1:42
  Cathi Spooner: She's an author of numerous amazing books, which I have talked about in the past.
• 1:48
  Cathi Spooner: Actually, that's how Liana and I met because I was fangirling out in my, in my Facebook group, uh, about the fact that I referenced her book in my book, cause it's got so many really good resources.
• 2:04
  Cathi Spooner: She's, uh, a favorite off, uh, speaker internationally, locally here in the U.
• 2:10
  Cathi Spooner: S.
• 2:11
  Cathi Spooner: So I'm really excited to have Leanna on today.
• 2:15
  Cathi Spooner: And we're going to be talking about grief, which I think is a really important topic.
• 2:22
  Cathi Spooner: I think if you've been in the play therapy field for any length of time, then you have, you've worked with children who've experienced grief, and grief oftentimes looks different in children.
• 2:35
  Cathi Spooner: So a lot of the adult models that we probably learned may or may not be so helpful for depending on your clients, um, in your work.
• 2:46
  Cathi Spooner: And how to use play therapy to help children heal.
• 2:51
  Cathi Spooner: So that is what we're going to talk about because play therapy has become the go to approach, I think, which I think is amazing.
• 3:03
  Cathi Spooner: So I want to welcome Liana and let you tell a little bit more about yourself and then we'll get started on the topic.
• 3:12
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, also before, sorry, before we do that, I want to welcome any of you watching live.
• 3:18
  Cathi Spooner: To go ahead and post your name in the comments.
• 3:20
  Cathi Spooner: We would love to know who's here.
• 3:22
  Cathi Spooner: If you have questions for Liana or comments, please go ahead and post those in the comments.
• 3:29
  Cathi Spooner: The only thing that we ask is that you not post specific questions about a questions about specific clients.
• 3:38
  Cathi Spooner: So post where you're from, what population you work with, where you're working, questions you have for Liana and the topic.
• 3:48
  Cathi Spooner: And so let's get started.
• 3:50
  Cathi Spooner: So welcome, Liana.
• 3:52
  Liana Lowenstein: Thank you so much.
• 3:53
  Liana Lowenstein: And, uh, Cathi, I'm a huge fan of you and your work.
• 3:57
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, your publications and especially, you know, this live stream that you offer.
• 4:03
  Liana Lowenstein: You are making such an important contribution to the field of play therapy.
• 4:09
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, I don't know, like, people have to really appreciate the time, the time that you put.
• 4:14
  Cathi Spooner: It does take a lot of time.
• 4:16
  Liana Lowenstein: It does take a lot of time.
• 4:18
  Liana Lowenstein: So like, props to you for all you do for our field.
• 4:25
  Cathi Spooner: You know, and I, I'm, I'm thinking you probably feel the same way about this, but you get, like, you and I have both been in the field.
• 4:32
  Cathi Spooner: Several decades, right?
• 4:34
  Cathi Spooner: And at some point, you really want to pass on your knowledge to the next generation and kind of support the next generation of play therapists who are, you know, coming because that I mean, they're the future, right?
• 4:50
  Cathi Spooner: We want to pass on and support them.
• 4:52
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 4:53
  Liana Lowenstein: Well, I mean, I love to support the newbies, but I also love to, um, provide, you know, helpful information to those who've been in the field for a really long time and are looking to, um, you know, we're always learning whether, you know, I've been doing this since 1988, but I'm always learning.
• 5:13
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and so we're not just talking about, you know, supporting the newbies, but also those who have been in the field for a long time, because the learning never ends.
• 5:22
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, that you know what?
• 5:24
  Cathi Spooner: That's a really good point too.
• 5:25
  Cathi Spooner: Because even now I still like I'll open up your books and look for, especially when I'm doing family play therapy.
• 5:32
  Cathi Spooner: I did it this week looking for activities.
• 5:34
  Cathi Spooner: What can I do?
• 5:36
  Cathi Spooner: What are we working on?
• 5:38
  Cathi Spooner: What do I need to focus on?
• 5:39
  Cathi Spooner: Get some ideas because otherwise we we kind of get stuck in our ruts.
• 5:45
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 5:45
  Cathi Spooner: We use the same thing over in our, our go tos, but it's nice to have other resources.
• 5:52
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 5:52
  Cathi Spooner: To be able to support clients as well.
• 5:56
  Cathi Spooner: So I, that's a really good point.
• 5:58
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 5:59
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 6:01
  Cathi Spooner: So, um, today's topic is how to help bereaved children in play therapy.
• 6:09
  Cathi Spooner: And this is an area that you're really knowledgeable about.
• 6:15
  Cathi Spooner: You've done a lot of work, written a lot of books about this.
• 6:18
  Cathi Spooner: So I'm wondering for you, what would you say are key guidelines things for play therapists to really think about?
• 6:27
  Cathi Spooner: When they're working with children who are experiencing grief.
• 6:33
  Liana Lowenstein: So, I guess I want to start off by saying that we live in a deaf phobic society.
• 6:39
  Liana Lowenstein: And it's really hard for people to talk about death.
• 6:44
  Liana Lowenstein: Even saying the word death and dying.
• 6:46
  Liana Lowenstein: We've got all these other words, past, you know.
• 6:48
  Cathi Spooner: I know.
• 6:50
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, because it's really hard to talk about.
• 6:52
  Liana Lowenstein: And so, I guess my first important guideline is that we need to be able to openly and comfortably talk about death.
• 7:01
  Liana Lowenstein: Use of the D words.
• 7:03
  Liana Lowenstein: First of all, model it, but also then to facilitate, to help our clients, whether it's a child that we're working with, a teen, a family, to help others be able to then talk comfortably about death, um, to take the scary out of it.
• 7:19
  Liana Lowenstein: So that would be my, you know, my first guideline.
• 7:22
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then of course, um, you know, I live in Toronto and Toronto is the most culturally diverse city on the planet.
• 7:30
  Liana Lowenstein: We were written up in National Geographic many years ago because of our diversity.
• 7:35
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and so I am working with families from many different cultural, religious, spiritual backgrounds.
• 7:43
  Liana Lowenstein: And especially when we're talking about working with bereavement families are coming to me with their own, um, cultural, spiritual differences, and we need to be able to learn from them, um, and be, you know, be attuned to where they're coming from in terms of those beliefs, um, and be respectful of it.
• 8:08
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and also then to, when I'm using, you know, specific activities, whether it's a story or a game, I'm asking the caregivers in that first parent session about their beliefs so that I could then integrate that into the activities, whether it's a story or a game.
• 8:29
  Cathi Spooner: Um, that's, that's actually a really good point, especially when you're working with diverse, um, diverse, culturally diverse families.
• 8:39
  Cathi Spooner: Really asking, you know, because there's, there are cultural aspects and then there are the nuances based on each individual client.
• 8:51
  Cathi Spooner: Right?
• 8:51
  Cathi Spooner: So I think asking them is a really respectful way to make sure it's really individualized.
• 9:00
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 9:01
  Cathi Spooner: And, and, but also that we've started the conversation.
• 9:04
  Liana Lowenstein: Exactly.
• 9:05
  Cathi Spooner: Right.
• 9:06
  Liana Lowenstein: So let's say I'm planning to use a, you know, a game in the next session with a child.
• 9:10
  Liana Lowenstein: I might email a copy of the game to the parent first and say, um, let's, let's co create this.
• 9:19
  Liana Lowenstein: What about these questions are appropriate?
• 9:21
  Liana Lowenstein: Is there anything that's not appropriate?
• 9:23
  Liana Lowenstein: How might I word this?
• 9:25
  Liana Lowenstein: What should I add to this?
• 9:26
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and this is where, it's empowering for caregivers.
• 9:30
  Liana Lowenstein: They know their child best and then they could integrate those cultural, spiritual beliefs into those activities to make them fit appropriately for the child, for the family.
• 9:41
  Cathi Spooner: I think also, uh, grief and lost death, even here in the U S as well as worldwide, right?
• 9:50
  Cathi Spooner: We'll bring up what, what are your beliefs about spirituality?
• 9:54
  Cathi Spooner: What are your beliefs about what happens after death?
• 9:58
  Cathi Spooner: What are your rituals around that?
• 10:02
  Cathi Spooner: What are your beliefs around that?
• 10:03
  Cathi Spooner: And what happens?
• 10:05
  Cathi Spooner: Because I've, I've had children who want to talk about their faith and they integrate it into the playroom and that's, that's going to come up around death.
• 10:18
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 10:18
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 10:20
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then another really important guideline is, and we all know this, but the importance of creating that safe space for the child to, to grieve, to which, which includes, um, you know, normalizing and validating whatever they're feeling, um, conveying the message that there's no right or wrong way to grieve.
• 10:44
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, but also because when a child is grieving, especially if it's the death of somebody in their family, then they're the, the caregiver is also grieving and the caregiver, because of their own grief, maybe struggling to support their child because, you know, maybe, maybe they're overwhelmed by their own grief.
• 11:06
  Liana Lowenstein: And so it makes our job even that much more important.
• 11:10
  Liana Lowenstein: The way we can support the child because maybe the child, you know, isn't able to grieve openly at home.
• 11:16
  Liana Lowenstein: Maybe they're worried that, oh, if I cry, I'll make my parent more upset.
• 11:20
  Liana Lowenstein: And so they're masking it all.
• 11:23
  Liana Lowenstein: They're holding it inside.
• 11:24
  Liana Lowenstein: So we really want to create that environment where kids can just come and talk and express and get that support and that validation.
• 11:33
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then when we can, we want to involve the caregivers, the whole family in the process to help them grieve together.
• 11:41
  Liana Lowenstein: We know, we all know, the important role that the caregiver plays in the child's adjustment to whatever the child is coming to see us for.
• 11:49
  Liana Lowenstein: And especially when it's a, you know, a death, um, the very important role that the caregivers play.
• 11:57
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and to, with teachers as well.
• 11:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, I, I, I always get permission from the child's caregivers to reach out to the child's teacher.
• 12:05
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and I have, Um, you know, in, in my books, um, my two brilliant books handout that you can photocopy and give to the child's teacher, but you also, you don't have to have my books to do this.
• 12:18
  Liana Lowenstein: There's tons of tons of great resources online.
• 12:22
  Liana Lowenstein: The Dougie Center, um, one of my favorites, where you know, you can go there and find all kinds of resources.
• 12:28
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, so reach out to the child's teacher.
• 12:32
  Liana Lowenstein: Provide them with some ways that they can support the grieving child in the classroom.
• 12:37
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then, uh, another really important tip is, um, you know, each child is going to grieve differently.
• 12:46
  Liana Lowenstein: You can have four children all in the same family dealing with the death of their mom, for example, and each of those four kids may be grieving very differently.
• 12:55
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and so it really speaks to the importance of doing a good thorough comprehensive assessment on the child and the family as a whole to determine what are the child's specific needs.
• 13:07
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, Some children may be doing, you know, quite well, and maybe the intervention is providing some psychoeducation to the caregiver.
• 13:17
  Liana Lowenstein: Maybe, um, the child's needs would best be served by referring them to a child, a children's provider.
• 13:24
  Liana Lowenstein: Okay.
• 13:24
  Liana Lowenstein: autistic child support group on grief.
• 13:26
  Liana Lowenstein: Or maybe the child's needs are more complex.
• 13:29
  Liana Lowenstein: Maybe the child is suffering from traumatic grief.
• 13:32
  Liana Lowenstein: That's a whole other topic that we don't go into, but it's important for you to understand what are the differences between grief and traumatic grief and in traumatic grief that requires, uh, a different way of supporting the child.
• 13:49
  Liana Lowenstein: So doing an, uh, you know, a comprehensive assessment.
• 13:51
  Liana Lowenstein: So that's an overview of some important guidelines.
• 13:57
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Cathi Spooner: And I, you know, and I think those are really important things to think about too.
• 14:02
  Cathi Spooner: I think you raised a lot of really good points about, especially I was thinking as you were talking, children, children are grieving, but if it's like the death of a family member or a loved one in the family, sometimes even a loved, beloved pet who is like a family member that's been in the family for a long time.
• 14:26
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 14:27
  Cathi Spooner: Children sometimes hesitate to show their grief because they are afraid it's gonna like make their parent cry.
• 14:35
  Cathi Spooner: And if they see their parent cry, then they think that's, you know, they're, they're egocentric.
• 14:42
  Cathi Spooner: The younger they are, the more egocentric they are.
• 14:44
  Cathi Spooner: Look what I've done to my parent.
• 14:47
  Cathi Spooner: But sometimes they also don't understand parents grieving.
• 14:52
  Cathi Spooner: So I think that point you raised about creating that safe space for the child to be able to grieve, and then how are we gonna, how are we going to get the family together and talk about death and help support parents so that they can then be the support for their child?
• 15:15
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 15:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 15:17
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Liana Lowenstein: And one of the things that I do, um, in, in both these two recent bereavement books, Cori Helps Kids Cope With Grief and Creative Interventions for Bereaved Children is that there are parent handouts.
• 15:31
  Liana Lowenstein: So for every treatment issue I'm working on with the child, there is a handout.
• 15:37
  Liana Lowenstein: And again, you can photocopy stuff from my books.
• 15:39
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, you can photocopy these handouts to give to parents to give parents really specific tips on how they can support their child.
• 15:49
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and, and that's, that was a really important component that I wanted to include.
• 15:53
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, because again, we know that the child will do better if their parent, uh, if their caregiver is able to support them, um, appropriately.
• 16:06
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I always, I always talk about how can we help parents be that therapeutic agent of change for their child because they're going to be around in the child's life way longer.
• 16:17
  Cathi Spooner: Hopefully.
• 16:18
  Cathi Spooner: Right.
• 16:18
  Cathi Spooner: That's the goal.
• 16:19
  Cathi Spooner: Way longer than us.
• 16:20
  Cathi Spooner: And that can be hard when parents are grieving loss, right?
• 16:25
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Cathi Spooner: So.
• 16:28
  Cathi Spooner: I think you were gonna talk.
• 16:29
  Cathi Spooner: So you you were gonna share some strategies that we can use, which are always really helpful.
• 16:36
  Cathi Spooner: So do you want to share some of these strategies?
• 16:40
  Liana Lowenstein: When I was preparing for today, I mean, there's so many different activities that I could share.
• 16:45
  Liana Lowenstein: I first want to just say though, that people often make an assumption because my books are, you know, contain directive structured play therapy activities that, um, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm, um, I'm very directive in my work.
• 16:59
  Liana Lowenstein: But I'm really integrative.
• 17:01
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and I blend structured directive with child led play, non direct, you know, child centered play therapy.
• 17:08
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and I love the blending of those two things.
• 17:10
  Liana Lowenstein: So, I mean, for today, I'm going to be sharing some directive techniques, but I want to just emphasize that, um, Um, you know, I, I also think it's really important to just, you know, also incorporate some of those more, uh, give children the opportunity to play out whatever they need to play out.
• 17:29
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, but okay, so a couple of strategies I want to share.
• 17:32
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, so first, um, I always like to start with, um, equipping the child with some coping strategies.
• 17:42
  Liana Lowenstein: And again, when we're talking about bereaved children, grieving children, um, they may not have a whole lot of emotional support in their life.
• 17:51
  Liana Lowenstein: And so I think it becomes even more important to help the child learn and then learn practice and then put into place some appropriate ways to cope with often they're very overwhelming feelings of grief.
• 18:05
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and so, um, one of the things that I have that I've updated in this, um, Um, second edition is the feel better bag.
• 18:15
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, so people who have had, who have this, the first edition will be familiar with the feel better bag.
• 18:20
  Liana Lowenstein: So it's a little kit that the child creates in the first session, they get to decorate their bag and then each session they get some kind of, they learn a new coping strategy and it has a little prop that they, they take the feel better bag home in the first session and then each session they get a prop to take home to add to their feel better bag that is their visual prompt of the coping strategy.
• 18:42
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, And so there are things like, you know, yoga with some yoga cards that they can print, you know, that you print off and give to the child that they can decorate.
• 18:52
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, there's, um, you know, some deep breathing strategies.
• 18:57
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, there's, um, a letter that they write to their self.
• 19:02
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, there's some self talk things.
• 19:04
  Liana Lowenstein: So, so, and this is where you can really be creative, right?
• 19:08
  Liana Lowenstein: In, in, in, in, in the, the techniques that you teach the child and make it very individualized for the child's age and what might they respond well to.
• 19:17
  Liana Lowenstein: So first things first, coping strategies.
• 19:20
  Cathi Spooner: Yep.
• 19:22
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then, um, involving the parent or the caregiver, whoever's bringing the child to the sessions, teaching the strategy, not just to the child, but to the parent as well.
• 19:32
  Liana Lowenstein: Cause often everyone in the family can benefit from learning and using these coping strategies.
• 19:37
  Liana Lowenstein: And you want the parent to then, of course, coach the child.
• 19:40
  Liana Lowenstein: to use these strategies.
• 19:42
  Liana Lowenstein: And then the next area that I think is important to cover is psychoeducation.
• 19:48
  Liana Lowenstein: And children, you know, who are grieving, okay, so something's happened in their family or in their life.
• 19:55
  Liana Lowenstein: And often they don't, especially with young kids, they don't really, they feel overwhelmed, but they don't really kind of fully understand what's happened.
• 20:03
  Liana Lowenstein: So Um, when we can make it into a game, it again, takes the scary out of learning about this learning and talking about this hard stuff.
• 20:11
  Liana Lowenstein: So I have the learning, learning about death card game, and I'm just gonna,
• 20:16
  Cathi Spooner: That's a great way to do it, psychoeducation and make it not so dry and boring.
• 20:21
  Liana Lowenstein: So making it into a game.
• 20:23
  Liana Lowenstein: So I have versions of this, I'm just going to share.
• 20:25
  Liana Lowenstein: So um, so, uh, I'll just read the instructions.
• 20:30
  Liana Lowenstein: So it can be hard to talk about death and upset feelings.
• 20:34
  Liana Lowenstein: So let's play a game to make it easier.
• 20:36
  Liana Lowenstein: To play, pick the top card from the stack of cards.
• 20:38
  Liana Lowenstein: You just need a, you know, a stack, a deck of cards.
• 20:41
  Liana Lowenstein: If you get a red card, I'll read a question for you to answer.
• 20:44
  Liana Lowenstein: The questions are about death, learning about death.
• 20:47
  Liana Lowenstein: You can answer, say pass, or ask for help.
• 20:50
  Liana Lowenstein: If you get a black card, we'll both follow the instructions from one of the items on the actions list.
• 20:55
  Liana Lowenstein: So we're getting up and moving, because, kids have a hard time sitting.
• 20:59
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Liana Lowenstein: A queen or king will both follow the instructions from the relaxation list.
• 21:04
  Liana Lowenstein: So again, with this game, I'm integrating coping strategies in the game.
• 21:09
  Liana Lowenstein: So there's questions, there's action cards, there's relaxation cards.
• 21:12
  Liana Lowenstein: So examples of questions, what does dead mean?
• 21:18
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, can a dead person come back alive?
• 21:22
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then there's questions about like, what is a casket?
• 21:25
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, viewing visitation, which again, this is where I'm in
• 21:29
  Cathi Spooner: Great question
• 21:31
  Liana Lowenstein: If you know, so you want to know, like, was the person buried?
• 21:34
  Liana Lowenstein: Was it, was it a burial?
• 21:34
  Liana Lowenstein: Was it a cremation?
• 21:36
  Liana Lowenstein: And then how are you going to explain these concepts to the child?
• 21:40
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, where do dead people go?
• 21:43
  Liana Lowenstein: Again, this is where you want to integrate the family's beliefs about this.
• 21:48
  Liana Lowenstein: Is it normal to have a lot of mixed up feelings when someone dies?
• 21:52
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, what are some worries children may have after someone dies?
• 21:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, what does guilty mean?
• 22:01
  Liana Lowenstein: And is it normal to feel guilty when someone dies?
• 22:04
  Liana Lowenstein: So those are just some examples.
• 22:05
  Liana Lowenstein: And then we have versions for suicide, homicide, drug overdose.
• 22:13
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, line of duty death, serious illness, natural disaster, um, really specific questions for those issues.
• 22:24
  Liana Lowenstein: So let me just go to the overdose.
• 22:29
  Cathi Spooner: That's a good one.
• 22:31
  Liana Lowenstein: You know, I mean, there has been such a huge increase in overdose deaths and, um, there's not a lot out there to support children who are coping with a suicide, a drug overdose death.
• 22:48
  Liana Lowenstein: Again, helping kids to just learn like, what are drugs?
• 22:52
  Liana Lowenstein: What are, why are drugs sometimes dangerous?
• 22:56
  Liana Lowenstein: Why do people misuse legal, legal drugs or illegal drugs?
• 23:00
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, what is drug addiction or a substance use disorder?
• 23:04
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, how might children feel when someone in their family has a substance use disorder?
• 23:10
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, what is a substance related death?
• 23:14
  Liana Lowenstein: So again, taking the scary out of it, helping families talk openly about these really, really, really hard things.
• 23:25
  Liana Lowenstein: So that's one activity, and again, you would adapt.
• 23:30
  Liana Lowenstein: You would adapt it for the child's age, um, and specific needs, and get the caregiver on board in terms of collaborating with you on modifying the questions.
• 23:42
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 23:43
  Cathi Spooner: Those are some really good questions, Jen.
• 23:46
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, yeah.
• 23:49
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, I don't know.
• 23:49
  Cathi Spooner: A bit of an echo.
• 23:50
  Liana Lowenstein: A bit of an echo.
• 23:53
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:53
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then, um, you know, living in Toronto, we, we have a lot of wonderful resources to support bereaved children and families, but many communities don't have, like, we have, you know, group programs, all kinds of different group programs.
• 24:08
  Liana Lowenstein: But you may be living in a community that doesn't offer those kinds of, you know, services.
• 24:15
  Liana Lowenstein: And we know that, you know, a child being in a support group can be so helpful, right?
• 24:21
  Liana Lowenstein: Just getting support from others who are in similar circumstances.
• 24:26
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and so one of the things that, um, I think is important, um, is, so I've included some letters from like JP, I call them JP's letter.
• 24:37
  Liana Lowenstein: So letters that you can read to the child.
• 24:39
  Liana Lowenstein: Again, I have different versions of the letter, you know, one for kids, you know, suicide, homicide, drug overdose, um, so that, if a child doesn't have the opportunity to be in a support group, they can, you can read the letter, JP's letter to them, and that helps the child feel like they're not alone.
• 24:58
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, so, I'll just, just read part of, uh, JP's letter, the version for suicide.
• 25:09
  Liana Lowenstein: So it says, Hi, if you're reading this, then it means that someone in your life died by suicide.
• 25:14
  Liana Lowenstein: Notice, Cathi, that I'm, I'm being really open and direct about the use of the word suicide.
• 25:22
  Liana Lowenstein: I know something about what you're going through because that happened to me too.
• 25:26
  Liana Lowenstein: I wrote this letter so you would understand that you're not alone.
• 25:29
  Liana Lowenstein: That there are other kids who know how you feel.
• 25:32
  Liana Lowenstein: My story may be different in some ways from yours.
• 25:35
  Liana Lowenstein: But there are probably some similarities too.
• 25:38
  Liana Lowenstein: After the suicide, I didn't want to talk about it with anyone.
• 25:42
  Liana Lowenstein: In fact, I pretended that everything was fine.
• 25:45
  Liana Lowenstein: But then I went to a group where I met other grieving kids.
• 25:48
  Liana Lowenstein: It was difficult to tell others about the suicide because I worried what I, because I worried about what they would think.
• 25:55
  Liana Lowenstein: But I felt relieved once I talked about it.
• 25:59
  Liana Lowenstein: I had a lot of worries after the death.
• 26:01
  Liana Lowenstein: I felt worried that more bad things would happen and I had scary thoughts about the death.
• 26:06
  Liana Lowenstein: I also felt very confused and angry.
• 26:10
  Liana Lowenstein: I didn't understand why someone would end their own life, and I felt angry at them for taking their own life and leaving me.
• 26:16
  Liana Lowenstein: I didn't handle my feelings well.
• 26:18
  Liana Lowenstein: I yelled and hit and got into trouble a lot.
• 26:20
  Liana Lowenstein: Then I would feel like I was bad and that everyone hated me.
• 26:25
  Liana Lowenstein: I learned a deep breathing strategy in the group.
• 26:27
  Liana Lowenstein: I didn't want to do the deep breathing strategy at first, but once I started using it, I liked the feeling of being calm much better than the feeling of being worried and angry.
• 26:36
  Liana Lowenstein: Anyways, the letter goes on.
• 26:38
  Liana Lowenstein: And so it's a way to really validate and normalize a lot of the feelings and reactions that children are experiencing.
• 26:48
  Liana Lowenstein: And then it gives some coping strategies.
• 26:51
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, so, so those are, um, I guess two, uh, two examples.
• 26:58
  Liana Lowenstein: I could go on if we have more time.
• 26:59
  Liana Lowenstein: I don't know, let you tell me if, if I should share a couple more activities or if there's questions, what, what do you, what do you think?
• 27:05
  Liana Lowenstein: What would be the best use of our time right now?
• 27:07
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I think we have a couple of more.
• 27:11
  Cathi Spooner: I mean, yeah, we have a time for a couple more.
• 27:13
  Cathi Spooner: I, you know, I love that idea of using the game to help with the psychoeducation and because I think you're right.
• 27:26
  Cathi Spooner: We, I think adults, we're afraid of death.
• 27:30
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, right.
• 27:30
  Cathi Spooner: And we don't know what to say.
• 27:33
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Cathi Spooner: So when you.
• 27:35
  Cathi Spooner: When you call out the elephant in the room, you give permission to talk about things.
• 27:42
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I think those are really nice ways to be able to do that.
• 27:47
  Cathi Spooner: Um, one, engaging parents, do you, do you ever have sessions where you have the parent that like the family in there doing some of these activities together?
• 27:58
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 27:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Liana Lowenstein: So again, I let my assessment drive not just the treatment plan, but the modality.
• 28:06
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and often, um, I'm, Um, I have some individual sessions with the child, some individual sessions with the parent or caregiver, uh, some parent child sessions and some family sessions.
• 28:19
  Liana Lowenstein: But again, it depends.
• 28:20
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, but I, I think it's so very important to support the whole family and really help them to grieve together.
• 28:27
  Liana Lowenstein: And a lot of the activities, um, in this book can be, I have a whole section on family play therapy.
• 28:32
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, but, um, a lot of the activities that are, um, you know, geared to individual kids can actually be used in a whole family session.
• 28:43
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Cathi Spooner: That's awesome.
• 28:45
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Cathi Spooner: Um, you know, I also love that you, you just talked about the fact that you do the assessment first.
• 28:54
  Cathi Spooner: I think sometimes it's been my experience that sometimes play therapists want to skip over the assessment because they want to get right to helping.
• 29:03
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I feel like they're like the assessment is going to make family members not want to engage.
• 29:10
  Cathi Spooner: But my experience has been the opposite.
• 29:12
  Cathi Spooner: When I get in there and do a good assessment, I ask a lot of questions and because I'm interested and I, they can tell, it's like, I always say it's like going to the doctor, but the doctor doesn't ask enough questions and you leave there going, like they prescribe something that doesn't work.
• 29:31
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah, I want to just emphasize that, um, from the first moment I'm seeing the child, um, I'm, I'm intervening as well as assessing.
• 29:41
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Liana Lowenstein: Well, like the feel better bag, that's a, that's an intervention.
• 29:45
  Liana Lowenstein: And I am introducing that at the beginning of the first session.
• 29:49
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and, you know, so the assessment activity or activities that I do in that first session may take, you know, one part of the session, but I'm also intervening and then when I'm involving the whole family and learning those coping strategies, or I'm providing in the parent intake meeting a tip sheet, that's intervention.
• 30:09
  Liana Lowenstein: You're assessing, but you're also intervening at the same time.
• 30:12
  Liana Lowenstein: So you can do both.
• 30:13
  Cathi Spooner: Yes.
• 30:14
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, both at the same time.
• 30:15
  Liana Lowenstein: Also, let's say the assessment activity is asking the child, um, you know, let's say through a game.
• 30:21
  Liana Lowenstein: Okay.
• 30:22
  Liana Lowenstein: I use a lot of games.
• 30:23
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, you know, questions about, you know, um, if the child wasn't there when the person died, you know, so who told you the person died?
• 30:30
  Liana Lowenstein: What do you remember them saying?
• 30:32
  Liana Lowenstein: How did you, um, when you learned the person died, how did other people in your family react?
• 30:40
  Liana Lowenstein: What's something that has helped you since the person died?
• 30:42
  Liana Lowenstein: What's something that's been really difficult for you since the person died?
• 30:46
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, so questions like that again through a game, that's an assessment activity, but it's also an intervention because when you're asking these questions and you're giving the child an opportunity to talk about it, that's therapeutic for the child.
• 31:02
  Cathi Spooner: Yes.
• 31:03
  Liana Lowenstein: And then as the child's responding, you're using all those good, important clinical skills of normalizing, validating, reflecting, That's therapeutic for the child.
• 31:14
  Liana Lowenstein: So assessment and intervention go hand in hand.
• 31:17
  Cathi Spooner: Yes.
• 31:18
  Cathi Spooner: So I have to do a little disclosure here.
• 31:22
  Cathi Spooner: So my husband has gone off to work and our, our dogs are now in the office with me.
• 31:30
  Cathi Spooner: So you may see like in the background on the video.
• 31:33
  Cathi Spooner: You may feel like a little black tail.
• 31:36
  Cathi Spooner: No problem.
• 31:40
  Cathi Spooner: This moaning is my dog is like,
• 31:44
  Liana Lowenstein: for telling us that.
• 31:45
  Liana Lowenstein: So we're not caught off guard
• 31:47
  Cathi Spooner: or wondering what is she doing in the background?
• 31:51
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 31:52
  Cathi Spooner: So they're both here.
• 31:54
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, so if you hear a little jingles.
• 31:56
  Cathi Spooner: Or you hear moaning or digging?
• 31:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Okay.
• 31:59
  Cathi Spooner: They like to be with their people.
• 32:04
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 32:04
  Cathi Spooner: So, yeah.
• 32:06
  Cathi Spooner: Um, yeah, if you want to, I don't know if you, uh, want to have a, uh, if you have another activity you want to share, but, and then we'll kind of wrap up with that one.
• 32:17
  Liana Lowenstein: Let me share one more that I think is pretty important.
• 32:20
  Liana Lowenstein: So, um, when we're working with bereaved children, I think it's, it's common for us to do memorializing stuff, like let's make a keepsake box, let's make a, let's, let's, you know, look at photos of the person who died and make a photo album, um, let's talk about your memories.
• 32:42
  Liana Lowenstein: And often that part of the work doesn't include Um, helping the child to talk about ambivalent feelings towards the person who died.
• 32:52
  Liana Lowenstein: If the assessment, um, the child, the caregiver or the child brings up that there are ambivalent feelings towards the person who died, it's really important to include that in the treatment process.
• 33:07
  Liana Lowenstein: Now, of course you have to explain and get parents on board, right?
• 33:11
  Liana Lowenstein: Because, uh, you know, the family may feel we don't talk ill about the person who died.
• 33:15
  Liana Lowenstein: So helping the caregiver to be able to talk about their own ambivalent feelings and giving permission for the child is so very important.
• 33:24
  Liana Lowenstein: And then how do we do this in a way that is play based or engaging for the child?
• 33:30
  Liana Lowenstein: So, um, I have the child, um, create a paper cutout.
• 33:36
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, that's awesome.
• 33:37
  Liana Lowenstein: And then there are questions that the child then answers by writing on one or the other side.
• 33:41
  Liana Lowenstein: So first they write about what they didn't like.
• 33:43
  Liana Lowenstein: Well, first I want to bring up that nobody's perfect.
• 33:47
  Liana Lowenstein: And in all our relationships, there are things, you know, we like and don't like about the person.
• 33:53
  Liana Lowenstein: And then I might share an example, like, I love my daughter.
• 33:56
  Liana Lowenstein: I love my daughter so much.
• 33:58
  Liana Lowenstein: Sometimes she does things that drive me crazy.
• 34:01
  Liana Lowenstein: Like if I say, you know, if I ask her to clean her room and she doesn't, and then I'm frustrated because she's not listening, I'm angry.
• 34:07
  Liana Lowenstein: So it's okay to be angry at the person.
• 34:08
  Liana Lowenstein: and still love them at the same time.
• 34:10
  Liana Lowenstein: So you want to get, first of all, just kind of explain ambivalence, give some examples that the child will kind of understand and then do an activity to help them.
• 34:18
  Liana Lowenstein: So what I didn't like, so this is one that was done by a child whose, uh, parent died from, um, substance, substance misuse.
• 34:28
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and, um, so I didn't like when he got drunk, um, when he hit my mom, um, when he did drunk driving.
• 34:38
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, when he yelled and got mad.
• 34:43
  Liana Lowenstein: And then what I liked when he took me fun places, when he got me nice things, when he teached me to rap, when he was nice to me and to my mommy.
• 34:54
  Liana Lowenstein: And so, and then they can decorate the paper.
• 34:57
  Cathi Spooner: That is awesome.
• 34:58
  Cathi Spooner: I love that one.
• 35:00
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 35:01
  Liana Lowenstein: So now again, Um, this is something that you can do in an individual session with a child or as a family session and everyone has their own and then they can talk about it as a family, which is even more validating and really helping the whole family to grieve.
• 35:15
  Liana Lowenstein: But you've got to get the parent on board first, you don't just do this with the child without getting the parent on board to that.
• 35:22
  Liana Lowenstein: But that's a missing piece often in grief support plans that is so very important to many children.
• 35:28
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, yes.
• 35:31
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, and I think the other side too is one being able to talk about it and also sometimes in situations like that, um, having conversations about what family members might be saying about that parent in front of the child that may not be so helpful, but you know what, like you talked about assessment and also interventions, you're going to find out.
• 36:00
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 36:00
  Cathi Spooner: Because you can tell by what they say.
• 36:04
  Cathi Spooner: So we, we have to be able to, I think that's an, I love that, that you're talking about the ambivalent feelings and, and kind of breaking the unspoken rule.
• 36:13
  Cathi Spooner: We don't talk well, sometimes it's spoken.
• 36:16
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, we don't talk bad about the dead.
• 36:20
  Liana Lowenstein: Yes.
• 36:21
  Cathi Spooner: But then it stays buried if we don't talk about it in a healthy way.
• 36:25
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 36:26
  Liana Lowenstein: And then the child is so confused and they don't know what to do with those feelings.
• 36:31
  Cathi Spooner: Yes.
• 36:31
  Cathi Spooner: Absolutely.
• 36:32
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 36:32
  Cathi Spooner: Well, those are, those are awesome activities.
• 36:35
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you so much for sharing those.
• 36:39
  Cathi Spooner: Um, do you, do you want to talk about how people can get your book?
• 36:45
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and like, uh, if people want to like check out your trainings and things like that, and then we'll post all of those in the comments as well for those of you who are watching live and those of you who are watching the replay.
• 37:03
  Cathi Spooner: So for those of you who are listening on the podcast episode, um, we'll, we'll post those in the comments and the description.
• 37:11
  Cathi Spooner: And also, um, Lee and I will talk a little bit about how to access some of these really amazing resources.
• 37:22
  Liana Lowenstein: Yeah.
• 37:22
  Liana Lowenstein: So, um, so all my books are available on Amazon and other online platforms.
• 37:28
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, but you can also get my books on my website.
• 37:31
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, if you are watching this before September 30th, 2024, um, I'm currently having a big book sale, um, where you get 25 percent off all my books.
• 37:44
  Liana Lowenstein: And if you buy any four books, you get 35 percent off.
• 37:47
  Liana Lowenstein: You should get an extra 10 percent off.
• 37:49
  Liana Lowenstein: So, uh, that sale is on until September, end of September, 2024.
• 37:54
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then after that, um, I'll give you a discount code with code PC14, that's P as in Peter, C as in cat, PC14, that'll give you 20 percent off all my books and then another 10 percent off if you buy any four books.
• 38:11
  Liana Lowenstein: And that sale is always on my website.
• 38:15
  Liana Lowenstein: I've, I've really tried to make my website a hub of free resources.
• 38:20
  Liana Lowenstein: So on my website, you can download a free ebook with lots of activities from people have contributed from all over the world for this ebook, and you can check that out.
• 38:31
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, You can also sign up for my newsletter that goes out a few times a year, and everyone who signs up for my newsletter automatically gets entered into a draw to win a free book.
• 38:42
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, I have lots and lots of articles on my website.
• 38:44
  Liana Lowenstein: An article library for parents and an article library for mental health professionals, so check that out.
• 38:50
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and there are links to my trainings.
• 38:52
  Liana Lowenstein: So, in fact, next week, next Tuesday, September 23rd, I'm doing a, a one day, um, webinar.
• 38:59
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, on working with, um, bereaved children, teens and families.
• 39:06
  Liana Lowenstein: So it'll be recorded.
• 39:07
  Liana Lowenstein: So if you're not able to watch it live, you can purchase the recording.
• 39:11
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and you know, it's a full, I love these full day, um, trainings because it really allows me to take a deep dive um, into working, you know, into working in this area um, in a much more comprehensive way.
• 39:27
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, and then I'm also, uh, teaching the same topic for a group, um, in Australia.
• 39:34
  Liana Lowenstein: So, uh, for those of you who live in that time zone, um, you can watch it live or, um, you can also attend from the U S, um, and it's, it's going to be sort of after hours, like I think, I think it's six o'clock Eastern time, Toronto Eastern time.
• 39:50
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, so anyways, there's links for all of that, um, on my website as well as links to all my other trainings.
• 39:57
  Liana Lowenstein: Um, I have trainings on, um, you know, coming up on school refusal, uh, you know, divorce, um, I am teaching a four day, um certificate program on innovate innovations for working with children and families.
• 40:11
  Liana Lowenstein: That's going to be a great training.
• 40:12
  Cathi Spooner: Ooh, that sounds good.
• 40:13
  Liana Lowenstein: Trauma focused CBT.
• 40:16
  Liana Lowenstein: Uh, so lots of stuff.
• 40:19
  Cathi Spooner: Awesome.
• 40:20
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 40:20
  Cathi Spooner: So, um, and I, uh, do you want to give your website?
• 40:24
  Cathi Spooner: We'll put it in the comments as well, but you want to tell people your website so they can go over there and check all those out.
• 40:31
  Liana Lowenstein: It's just my name, Liana Lowenstein.
• 40:33
  Liana Lowenstein: com.
• 40:33
  Liana Lowenstein: So L I A N A..
• 40:35
  Liana Lowenstein: L.
• 40:36
  Liana Lowenstein: O.
• 40:36
  Liana Lowenstein: W.
• 40:36
  Liana Lowenstein: E.
• 40:36
  Liana Lowenstein: N.
• 40:36
  Liana Lowenstein: S.
• 40:37
  Liana Lowenstein: T.
• 40:37
  Liana Lowenstein: E.
• 40:37
  Liana Lowenstein: I.
• 40:37
  Liana Lowenstein: N.
• 40:37
  Liana Lowenstein: Liana Loewenstein dot com.
• 40:40
  Cathi Spooner: Awesome.
• 40:41
  Cathi Spooner: Well, thank you so much for being a guest today and kind of sharing your resources and knowledge about this topic.
• 40:52
  Cathi Spooner: I think it really is an important topic and I think a lot of the things That you, you raised about like the cultural aspects and making sure to check in with parents about different beliefs or things that one, that you're going to be doing, but also get the feedback on that kind of helps prepare.
• 41:16
  Cathi Spooner: Making sure you're understanding the cultural beliefs and traditions about death and dying in the family.
• 41:28
  Cathi Spooner: But also like, let's talk about it, like making it not scary and giving a safe space for children and families and parents to be able to process what's been going on and, and work through that grief process and understanding grief.
• 41:53
  Cathi Spooner: There's no rules around grief.
• 41:55
  Cathi Spooner: Like how you grieve is how you grieve.
• 41:58
  Cathi Spooner: There's no timelines.
• 42:00
  Cathi Spooner: There's not a, you know, like a right or wrong way to do it.
• 42:05
  Cathi Spooner: Your grief process is your grief process and kind of giving permission and supporting that.
• 42:11
  Cathi Spooner: So, Yes, welcome.
• 42:14
  Cathi Spooner: I mean, so welcome.
• 42:15
  Cathi Spooner: So thank you for being on for today.
• 42:20
  Cathi Spooner: And
• 42:20
  Liana Lowenstein: thank you so much for having me.
• 42:21
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, it was great having you again.
• 42:24
  Cathi Spooner: Um, all righty.
• 42:26
  Cathi Spooner: So for those of you, we will see you next time.
• 42:30
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you.
• 42:31
  Cathi Spooner: Bye for now.
• 42:31
  Cathi Spooner: Bye everybody.
• 42:37
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 42:42
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gained new insights and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 42:51
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 42:57
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 43:03
  Cathi Spooner: Remember, Play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 43:07
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work and relationships.
• 43:19
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topic suggestions for future episodes, I'd love to hear from you.
• 43:26
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 43:38
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 43:42
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning, and growing.